Hello DB community,
I have been lurking and reading for a while.
My SO dropped on me and I feel devastated.
I want to make it better and so feel she is making a mistake.
Yes I have broken lots of the rules. Hopefully not irreparably.
I am getting the news letters. Have the video series and DR. Also reading Men are from Mars at the recommendation of my minister. Very glad to see it is referenced here as well.
My apologies for perhaps a less than organized first post.
I thought you might like to read Cadet's Welcome Posting:
Welcome to the Board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Me-64, D32,S31
Thank you for the welcome.
Like I said I have been lurking and reading. Sandi's rules are great. The abbreviations are a whole new language but hey I had to learn a whole new language joining the Navy.
Going to work my way through the other links on the list.
Me- 55, W 53, 31 Y
D 30, D 28, S 21 5 Grands
Not sure if she is MLC, EA or PA, WAW or just WW. She has said ILYBNILWY. She has said never getting back together but still in house, move on and find someone better etc. After 31 Y... not like flipping a switch.
HI Turbine,
sorry you are here...
It's a holiday weekend so things are slow. Maybe you can post some details like how long you've been married, how long together, kids, prior divorces, affairs, your spouse's reason for leaving, any other issues relevant to your situation.
Breaking rules happens, but you need to learn from them and see what it got you.
Turbine you have left out a lot of details of your sitch so please continue posting and give us more context.
I will say, based on my recent sitch, that the 50s are a dangerous age for a W. They have given the last 2 or 3 decades of their lives to raise kids. They have identified as a W and mother so long they don't remember who they were before. Once the kids are out of the house they look around and think......how did I get here? I notice your youngest is 21. Your W is 53. That means that she turned 50 as your S was graduating from HS. This was likely when she started thinking "how did I get here?"
In my experience most WAWs (and MWD write about this too) have been contemplating leaving for ~2 years. So the timing on this is probably pretty close.
So as you add more details maybe you could consider when things started to turn south. Also please tell us more about BD, what was said. Her list of complaints (if any). Etc.
Okay... here goes... more details...
BD was after an argument. W had said D before in the heat of things. I was really stupid in my response. I regret that with every breath since.
A while later she said she had a lawyer.
Yeah all the mistakes.
We had gone to breakfast on a Saturday, ran errands together, lunch. Pleasant day.
Week or two later she asked if I would be home the next morning. I had hoped another chance to spend day together... nope... I was served.
W sleeping in next bedroom, drives me crazy knowing she is so close. When she showers... all of it.
I have told her prior to BD she was beautiful, special, smart, tough etc.
Now... you know the drill.
Complains I ignored her, don't have common interests, don't give her flowers or gifts. I haven't try to learn her language or cultture, don't like her food.
We never have been just the two of us. Married in Navy, returned from deployment to a family. Even now her brother is living with us.
Married 31 years, 3 kids: D 30, D 28, S 21, 5 grandkids.
ages 10, 9,8, 6, 3months
Have you considered the possibility of an A?
I have. She denies it... of course.
Her church teaches no D. I had to join to get married to her.
I left a while back (about 10 years ago) and am in the process of returning. That isn't just showing up. Attendance is taken regularly. When speaking with the minister I repeated many times I didn't want this to be a trick or a false effort.
She stopped attending. Got a transfer and didn't complete the process. She has started going again, to another location. I had been praying she returns to church because it is so much a part of her life. Praying God softens her heart.
I know there has to be something for her to see as different. Prayer alone isn't enough. What is the saying... God helps those who help themselves.
I thank God for finding MWD, her Youtube videos, this website and everyone here. Going it alone would be almost impossible.
My lovely W is Filipina and the best part of that country. I had prayed long ago that God help me and He brought us together. I have not been worthy of her and I know I can't undo the wrongs (real or imagined) and I can only work to be better and want to have that chance. A chance I would have to earn/prove every day.
Her improvements are on her. I hope to be accepted again and to grow old with her. What I had always thought would be...
I have. She denies it... of course.
Her church teaches no D. I had to join to get married to her.
I left a while back (about 10 years ago) and am in the process of returning. That isn't just showing up. Attendance is taken regularly. When speaking with the minister I repeated many times I didn't want this to be a trick or a false effort.
She stopped attending. Got a transfer and didn't complete the process. She has started going again, to another location. I had been praying she returns to church because it is so much a part of her life. Praying God softens her heart.
I know there has to be something for her to see as different. Prayer alone isn't enough. What is the saying... God helps those who help themselves.
I thank God for finding MWD, her Youtube videos, this website and everyone here. Going it alone would be almost impossible.
If you don't mind, could you tell us which denomination? If you aren't comfortable saying I understand.
Turbine, so it is very traditional. So is she an active member again, your last post was a little vague on that point.
Steve85, yes... traditional sounds right. I don't know how active she is again as she attends the locale physically closer and I attend the one that is time closer. (side streets vs highway).
I would love to attend with her even if we sit on opposite sides (seating divided by gender) it would be time reconnecting. Not there yet... praying for that too.
So this last Wednesday I rode to Church with my Brother in law because I was really tired. I average about 5 hours of sleep a night and have for so long that I seem to have adapted to this. That is a discussion I will have with my Dr.
After the worship service we had stopped at Burger King and grabbed a couple of Whoppers. Supper wasn't enough and yes I know fast food really isn't taking care of myself. More about that later. While we were waiting for the food, my wife texted him and in the back and forth (not in English) it seems she wondered what was going on and she had gone to the other locale. Her continued attendance is encouraging but until we are attending together I will try to not get over enthused about this. Feeds back to this: Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does. I will not even put this into a category yet. I know which one I would like it to be in. That is an expectation... (sigh)
Even if I see the text exchange I would need it translated from Tagalog or Visayan. Of course my B-I-L could tell me what it ways but even getting a screen shot would be snooping. Yeah I know... detach. After 31 years... how on earth do you just shut that off?
There is a picture of a female wolf and she is "hiding" under her mate. However her mouth is open and she is as committed to the fight as her mate. She has got his "back" by protecting his throat. God I miss her. Does everyone feel this vulnerable?
I have tried doing things without her. I saw Deadpool 2... alone. I cried in the dark... Deadpool. I mean really that isn't exactly where you would expect that. NCIS episodes... The Ranch... there are triggeres everywhere and not all the time. This [censored] but getting it out... we'll see if it helps.
Oh... yeah... going to Church would not be to find anyone else. They all know her and they are all not her. So not an option. I love my Filipina.
So last night I dreamed my wife and I were snuggling and kissing. I hope it foretells a positive outcome. At this point just wishful thoughts.
My W has a part time job working as a home care CNA. She will be covering for another caretaker and won't be home for 10 days. Time I will put to use cleaning the house and taking care of me. When my parents passed there was a lot of stuff that ended up at our house. Added to our own stuff and the house no longer feels like a home... physically. Emotionally I realize it hasn't for a while...
Other than any necessary and immediate contact I will leave her be. She is working and easy no contact time.
She also works full time. I should have included this earlier if I hadn't.
We met while I was active duty Navy. Got married in my dress whites.
She hates that I didn't finish 20 years. I hated I didn't fit in and was never home. So yeah there is a point of contention there.
When we got out we moved back to be closer to my family. Her Mother was living with us.
Now her mother is the only parent we have left.
I never met her Dad face to face. He died after falling out of a second or third story window. He had Alzheimer and crawled out a window when everyone else was asleep. The conversation was in Tagalog so I had to piece together what was happening from the English being used and the comments directed at me.
When he died I didn't hesitate to get my wife the money for her to travel home for his funeral. My brother in law stayed here, even though this was his father.
So I sent her a text message this morning along the lines of you don't want to talk then you can't complain if there are changes you don't like.
Not intended as anything more than a statement of fact.
Her answer was "What is the changes I don't like?"
I haven't answered yet. Might not at all. Might just change stuff around the house without her input.
She doesn't like it... tough. She says she won't change her mind. Maybe she needs to see something new.
So you throw a text like that at her, and then ignore her direct response?
T, you are going about this all wrong. The right move in DBing is TO NOT HAVE SENT THE TEXT MESSAGE. Don't make it worse by ignoring her query. It comes off as passive-aggressive and "I just wanted to get a rise out of you."
Enumerate the changes you were referring to. If it was just to get a rise out of her, apologize and 180 and go back to being dark.
What are you doing for GAL tonight? Detaching isn't just turning it off like switch. If it were that easy this forum wouldn't exist. You have to work on it. Are you going back to Cadet's original response and rereading all of those links daily? You should be. So many newbies here either ignore his post, or read it once, and then go on and do whatever they feel is right to them. And then wonder why they weren't successful. Look up poster Nutcrac's threads as an example of this. (He and his ex are D with no contact now, by the way.)
Her response came while I was driving... so I had to wait to answer.
There is a cabinet that was my Grandmother's. My Mom got it after Grandma died. My aunt would like to have it since it had been her mother's. I had no real desire to have it but my wife did. Why... I really don't understand why.
Since it is inherited it stays with me. If I dispose of it she has no say. Antagonistic yes. Some days I am tired of the games. Clean the house... when stuff is spread all over since she moved into another bedroom. Some of her stuff is stil in our bedroom. I'd like to either move it all out of our bedroom or move her and her stuff back in. Yeah... patience...
As for my GAL tonight... cut the grass, clear jungle in the backyard. After dark... work on my stuff in the bedroom. I'll leave hers alone since doing anything else is antagonistic and counter-productive.
Oh... fill out some job applications for a part time.
Did I say part of her complaint is I ignored her. So is going dark/no contact the right move? That would seem more of the same. Seems very no win here either way I go.
Turbine, first I agree with Steve that a lot of women go through an "awakening" in their late 40's/ early 50's. Maybe it's menopause or maybe not but it happens a lot. Sometimes they just need some time and space and then they decide they want to stay married. Sometimes they don't. It's unpredictable. But regardless, time and space is your best approach right now. Pursuit will just drive her farther away because right now she doesn't like you or want you. Have you ever had someone pursue you that you didn't like, and the more you tried to avoid them the more they threw themselves at you? It's very unattractive behavior and has the opposite effect of what they want. She may eventually find you attractive again, but it's going to take a long time. This is a marathon.
I also agree with Steve that you shouldn't have texted that to her, that is classic pursuit.
Supper wasn't enough and yes I know fast food really isn't taking care of myself.
Yup, you're right. Your sitch is going to mess up your sleep enough as it is, don't make it worse by eating junk. Now is the time to take stock of everything you're doing wrong in your life and fix it. That includes what you eat. One of the DB'ing pillars is to get yourself in the best shape of your life. Work out and eat well. Lose weight if you need to. Eating right will improve your appearance (weight, hair and complexion) and general outlook on life.
By the way, what is the situation where you are hanging out and going to church with her brother? Be VERY careful what you say to him. There should be NO discussions of your sitch with any of her relatives.
Yeah I know... detach. After 31 years... how on earth do you just shut that off?
It takes time. It's not a light switch, it's a rheostat.
I have tried doing things without her. I saw Deadpool 2... alone. I cried in the dark... Deadpool.
If you need to cry then cry, just not in front of her. I cried more after BD then the previous 3 decades combined.
Brother in law lives with us. Her Mother did for about 20 years. Returned to the Philippines for about a year and now lives with another Sister in law. Mother in law wants to come home. I wouldn't mind but now isn't the time.
I have been working out, exercising, losing weight. Appearance... thinning hair. W didn't like me being scruffy. That is easy one. Never been worried about fashionable. Dressed neatly and for the occasion.
I am not willing to quit. On her, us , me.
I am so incredibly proud of all she does and has done. I want to be proud of what we continue to do. Does that make sense?
I am not willing to quit. On her, us , me.
What if the only way to get her back is to quit on her and us? I agree, never quit on you! In fact, that is what DBing is about, concentrating on yourself!
But yes, you need to let her go to get her back. She will either come back or she won't, but nothing you do will cause her to do that. All you can do is give her the time and space to figure her own stuff out.
Did I say part of her complaint is I ignored her. So is going dark/no contact the right move? That would seem more of the same. Seems very no win here either way I go.
No contact/going dark IS NOT IGNORING her. First, it is NOT initiating contact. When you were ignoring her not only didn't you initiate contact, but you ignored her contact. When she reaches out to you with a question, answer it. If the text is informational then there is no need to respond. If it is her telling you how she feel's, then use a validating statement from the validation thread.
Her: "I feel like you are still trying to pressure me into coming back to you."
You: "I can understand how you would feel that way."
Also, be the one to end contact. If she responds again with: "You need to just back off."
No question. No sharing of feelings. So no response. Notice, not responding isn't ignoring. If she ever texts you information and you don't respond, if she then asks "Did you get my text about such and such?" Your response is "Yes."
I am not willing to quit. On her, us , me.
What if the only way to get her back is to quit on her and us? I agree, never quit on you! In fact, that is what DBing is about, concentrating on yourself!
But yes, you need to let her go to get her back. She will either come back or she won't, but nothing you do will cause her to do that. All you can do is give her the time and space to figure her own stuff out.
Backing off isn't quitting is it? Subtle is still DB... or did I misunderstand that?
I want to be who she wants to come back to. If she has decided that isn't going to happen... I don't want that future. Sound weak? I don't care. I don't imagine being without her and being happy... being... and going through the motions. So I have a goal to reach.
I have done hard before. I can again. So I will thank you in advance for the support.
You really need to go read Nutcrac's threads.
Finished Sandi's Rule thread. On to the next one. Until I read it again.
Reading "Going Dark" now and I am curious about something discussed there.
Compliment her as a friend, not as a lover. JamesJohn 6/10/02
So if you offer a compliment that she looks nice and my intent is nothing more than that yet she gets defensive I suppose there are two conclusions.
One is she isn't ready for compliments from me yet.
Two would be she is reading more into my words than are intended.
So proceed how?
Avoid complimenting her?
Throw out a very innocent compliment to test the waters.
"I like those shoes."
Rarely does a woman think "He is trying to get me into bed" because a guy compliments her shoes.
Stick to innocuous compliments. "I like that outfit, very well coordinated." As opposed to "You look nice."
Throw out a very innocent compliment to test the waters.
"I like those shoes."
Rarely does a woman think "He is trying to get me into bed" because a guy compliments her shoes.
Stick to innocuous compliments. "I like that outfit, very well coordinated." As opposed to "You look nice."
Hey Steve, you are turning into a DBraptor! Amazing!
If complimenting her shoes is a good approach then I have lots of chances. She has lots of shoes. On the other hand I have been critical of the amount of shoes.
Past coming back in spades I suppose.
Then again if I back away every time she could be offended or set off I might as well throw in the towel now and sign. However I come by being persistent honestly so that isn't an option.
Cast and present your bait gently. The fishing analogy is good. Patience needed in both cases.
A test compliment then...
Turbine, welcome to the forums and sorry that you are here. I was in a similar situation as you twice in my marriage. I am repeating some things that were already said, but maybe it will help you hear it from multiple people. The DB principles do work. Steve is completely right when he says that is the only way to get her back:
But yes, you need to let her go to get her back. She will either come back or she won't, but nothing you do will cause her to do that. All you can do is give her the time and space to figure her own stuff out.
This seriously sums it up and it's very true. This exact mindset got me back with my wife. I tried every type of pursuit, affection, anything you can think of and none of it worked. It only made things worse. When I honestly, truly (not an act, I mean SERIOUSLY) let go, stopped caring, GAL, and imagined a future without her - that's when she came back. I am living proof that it works.
This is how I summed it up for myself and this is how I think about it. Your wife says she doesn't want to be with you. It is IMPOSSIBLE for you to change that, we can't control other people no matter what. Next step is to accept this. No positive outcome will happen if you continue what you are doing. Things will only get worse. To accept it, you need to move on, truly move on. Cut all contact that isn't truly necessary. No more petty phone calls/texts. Picture a life without her, make future plans/goals without her, just take it day by day. Cry, scream, whatever you need to do. Then, do activities that you enjoy doing. Spoil yourself! When you really detach and let go, she will see that she's loosing you. She will notice the change in you. She needs to miss you if you want a chance at fixing this. But if you are always there, pursing, arguing, etc, she won't miss you and things won't get better. But, whatever she does is up to her. Remember that you can't change that, you can only change you. You will get through this whatever the outcome is. Just really read and apply these principles, they do work. Good luck!
She needs to miss me... in house separation... Hmmm
I have been reading the Going Dark thread so I have much to ponder in addition to the DB and DR books.
Which leads me to a question. Are there any books or articles that should be left around to be discovered? I know the DR and DB are not. What about M/V? is this acceptable or not?
Or would an dance school info be better? My dancing skills are pitiful...
Leaving things laying around so she'll find them is manipulation. Just DB and skip the manipulation attempts.
Thanks, I don't want to manipulate her. As much as I'd like to help her and expedite her journey that isn't the way it works.
Although this morning I feel like she can take a hike. I don't need her but I would love for her to choose to work this out... duh.. like everyone else here.
Maybe some of that impatience working to the surface. Maybe not enough healing of myself.
This week was an easy dark. She took time to work second job so another caretaker could go on vacation. Trust her... I don't know... maybe...
We have lots to do and right now all I can do is my part.
Time will tell.
Hang in there Turbine...I am extremely impatient and realize I have no chance unless I let it play out. I had myself convinced that I was going to file for D and was not being honest with myself when WW made a move back to me. Caused me more pain to realize I was not being honest with myself but I should have been happy that she was realizing that I might be the better choice.
Long road I am 4+ months in but only a month of dbing.
Complains I ignored her, don't have common interests, don't give her flowers or gifts.
This is interesting to me. Have you read the Love Languages? Sounds like hers may be gifts and quality time. How about you? How do you receive love? How do you give love?
I haven't try to learn her language or cultture, don't like her food.
Its interesting that after 31 years, you havent made this kind of effort. Why not?
What would be different if she were to change her mind? It's easy to say "I would appreciate her more". But what would you actually change? What are you doing now to grow?
I have read the Love Languages. I did get flowers (Roses) a few times. She said waste of money and why not before. Granted she also didn't throw them out either. I had gotten a bottle of her preferred perfume for our anniversary. That too was rejected.
I would love to go for walks with her or to the gym. I am and have always been rather self conscious about getting up in front of people and singing or dancing. Got to work on that...
I do like Filipino food. I have tried to learn Tagalog. I can read it a little better than speak it. Some of that is it is spoken very quickly and it all just runs together to me. I know a few phrases. I have been trying to learn more with some help from our nieces and nephews, a co worker and online stuff. So far my phone is learning faster than I am...
I haven't always been as supportive as I could. When we went back to school I helped her with the course work as much as I could without doing the work. I helped her with the economics course so much that I tested out of it myself.
We (the two of us) have only her mother left. My Mother will be gone 5 years, Dad 3 years and her Dad 2 years. There was extra stuff involved with my parents as executor and trustee for my sister. All that just from my family made me feel overwhelmed and put upon. Trying to explain how it was supposed to work to her is hard because she has some pretty set ideas about this.
Well there it nothing wrong with playing the Learn Tagalog phrases in 8 hours while I sleep. Multiple nights until it sinks in.
Yes sort of a bump...
Okay. I need to "pick your brain" about this past weekend.
I spent Saturday night at my D and S place. Unannounced to W. So while we are having breakfast I get two texts from W.
"Are you home?" and "Good morning"
In response I sent her a picture of our grandsons and their dog. I also responded with Maganda umaga (good morning) in Tagalog.
W response "Did you went to church?"
Me "Leaving in a few minutes."
W "Which church, in Bloomingdale?" and "Are you at Alex?"
Me "Chicago. Yes. Just took that picture of the boys."
I finished my breakfast, the cup of coffee and went to church. While I was driving there she called me. Since I was driving and cell phone use unless hands free is a ticket, I ignored her call. When I got to Church I sent "Missed your call because I was driving."
I saw her car after Church. Didn't approach her.
So here is the question. Since she has left the church, (by requesting a transfer and letting it expire, yet still attends) would dropping a tell to a minister be out of line? There are friends she has known longer who may have seen her. They don't know. I told them the truth when asked about my W. She was working and I had spent the night with kids.
I did move more of her stuff into the basement. So caring what she thinks is rapidly fading. She did return home last night from her home care job but I was sleeping and left this morning without interaction.
So... thoughts?
I am a staunch "do not tell anyone about your sitch" proponent. First of all this is all private stuff. If you are going to discuss it with anyone you should first get your W's permission.Note, this is just my opinion. Opinions on this will vary.
The reasons I advocate this approach are:
1) It is pressure on your WAW. No way around it. Eventually, the minister would say something to her. Or her knowing he knows alone would be pressure. Remember, you are trying to remove all pressure and pursuit.
2) People's hearts are in the right place, but you will be given traditional marriage advice. IE Pursue....pressure...reconnect. The whole reason DB exists is because in the vast majority of cases that advice doesn't work. People you are close to will give you advice based on the fact that they care about you and don't want to see you hurting. "Just file for D." "Say this to her." Etc. Its better to DB and not try to incorporate advice from people to close to the sitch.
3) It makes it harder for the WAW to come back. It is hard enough for her to reconcile with you, and get past all of the things that have been said and done between the two of you. If she feels that she also has that dynamic going on with your family, and friends, and minister, and other members of the church, then it might end up being too much work, and push her to just give up.
Be very careful who you tell. sandi gave me advice early on not to "out" my WAW to the Church. That was sound advice, and I strongly suggest the LBS think very carefully before talking to people about your sitch, especially people the WAW will have a relationship in the future if your MR moves to R.
Don't you wish stuff like that were in the welcoming post... Well that horse is out of the stable.
I hope going grey is the next best thing then.
Put the rudder over hard and tie everything down then.
I didn't initiate the contact over the weekend. I haven't mentioned it to her and don't plan on it either. Silent running.
I am not sure how to proceed here. Monday night after W got home from don't know/didn't ask she texted me from the kitchen if I would like some apple pie. So I put a t-shirt on and went down stairs. One of her complaints was my walking around the house, ready for bed, without a shirt on. Since I was ready for bed...
In hindsight I think it was wrong to do this for a couple of reasons. However I didn't want to be a jerk about it either. No conversation, she was on her phone with her friend, speaking Tagalog.
Last night I had stopped at favorite local sports pub for happy hour special, tacos. FYI my preferred drink is an Arnold Palmer. While I am there I watch the silly videos or the music videos or my phone and catch up with the news. Not there for more than the food.
I got home after running to the store for meds and some stuff for my lunches. W hadn't had supper yet. She cooked some Filipino inspired dish and asked me if I had eaten. Since I had I declined politely and left it at that. She pressed for another question and again polite answer, vague, again declining.
So how do I walk this tightrope of trying to back away and give her space to sort out/miss me when she does this? I don't want to be a jerk or a doormat. Back off more?
We have a 3 month old granddaughter (5th grandchild) we haven't seen in person. I am thinking of taking a long weekend to go see her. Debating about letting her know about this but inclined not too. She want's me to move on. I hate that phrase... So I believe that doing so may be an unexpected move by me. Of course I would like both of us to meet her at the same time. More for my/our memories than the baby.
The reason we haven't seen her yet is they live near Buffalo NY and we are just NW of Chicago. I had wanted to visit much sooner but W had made plans to use vacation time to go to Fl with home care family. Really upset by that... a lot...
Just keep detaching. Read the detachment thread daily. Detachment is an art, not a science. Yes it is difficult at first. The thing is to be polite, present, engaged, confident, pleased, upbeat. But still aloof, as in you aren't engaging first. You aren't starting conversations. You aren't following her around like a puppy dog.
It is difficult when the WAS starts to reach out. How to handle that. My advice is to use your gut instinct and weigh each reach out separately. For instance, if she texts me about apple pie, and I want apply pie, I might take her up on that. If I already ate, and she offers me dinner, then it is fine to respond with "No thank you, I already ate."
Eventually the WAS may ask what is going on, why are you "distant"? Remind them they asked for space, and out of respect for their request you are giving it to them. Funny how many WASs will ask for space, and they complain when they get it. Which shows they will complain no matter what you do.
Also, the no shirt thing speaks volumes. This is a W that is not feeling it for her H right now. Complaints like that only come from Ws that aren't attracted to their Hs. So you really need to back off and detach. Make her come to you.
The shirt thing was not recent. I put one on because she had mentioned it long before as a big annoyance. Didn't seem to be hard to correct for that.
I am going to keep with the diet and exercise. Dr. thinks good for me anyway and I have been moving in the right direction. My kids want me too also so I am healthier than my Dad was. Side benefit there is I can be around for them and grandkids longer.
Fit and trim physically. Mentally sharp. Emotionally stable and wanting but not needing a R or MR with W.
Sound about right?
Making use of work schedule and our forced half day Friday's. Coordinating with oldest D to come visit her and my three Granddaughters. Solo trip. W wants space and not willing to make trip before when I tried to set up. Her loss. My memories.
Yeah... wish it were otherwise. Part GAL for me. Part consequences of sitch.
Long drive but have done it before and going to have the time to not feel rushed or be driving after work.
Let's see... W offered supper last night (salad) which I declined because I ate already. Church that night too. Carpooled with BiL because taking two cars to same place from same place... why?
Our niece was with us so we dropped her off at SiL before we went to church. I didn't initiate any conversation involving W. BiL offered that W was going to attend same place we were headed... Whiskey Tango.....
She was there because BiL rode home with W. She removed herself from membership so I don't know what kind of game she is playing. I know I am getting tired of it.
After her week to cover the home care W said we would clean the house. Not seeing that happening with her stuff. Maybe time to ask her to move out with all her stuff. A change up she probably isn't expecting.
Really getting to where she will have what she wants. I will have moved on and if/when she realizes wrong thing it will be too late. I'm praying for positive results but I will keep working on me.
Still excited about going to Buffalo.
Got an email from my attorney about some $$$ disclosure. I have to decide if I want equal disclosure... thinking yes.
W still living at home, second bedroom. We aren't interacting at all. Feels so wrong. I don't want her to get the idea I have given up.
Mixed signals.... AARRRRGH!
I have read the Love Languages. I did get flowers (Roses) a few times. She said waste of money and why not before. Granted she also didn't throw them out either. I had gotten a bottle of her preferred perfume for our anniversary. That too was rejected.
It's fine to read the 5LL as a COMPANION book to DR but you absolutely should NOT be buying her gifts and flowers, this is the wrong time for that. We could have told you her reaction would be "too little too late" which is pretty much exactly what happened. It also comes off as pursuit and pressure, the main two things you should be completely avoiding at this point. Read 5LL as INFORMATION, not as a game plan. Read Sandi's rules every day. No pressure. No pursuit. No gifts.
I would love to go for walks with her or to the gym.
Of course you would. But that is not what SHE wants. And right now, this is all about what she wants. What does she want? It's quite simple really- anything but you. I know that sounds harsh but you need to understand what you are up against so that you will quit all this pursuit and pandering. SHE DOESN'T WANT YOU. She may again in the future, but not right now. Right now she doesn't like you and in fact the sight of you may even repulse her. This is pretty typical after BD.
So here is the question. Since she has left the church, (by requesting a transfer and letting it expire, yet still attends) would dropping a tell to a minister be out of line?
Yes, way out of line. That will just look to her like you are trying to "rally the troops against her" which Michele specifically warns against in DR. Do not talk to friends, family, clergy, etc. about your sitch. If they ask you then just say "we are working on things" and leave it at that. The ONLY people you should talk to are either us or people you know that have no connection to your W at all that you can trust will never say anything to her.
I did move more of her stuff into the basement. So caring what she thinks is rapidly fading. She did return home last night from her home care job but I was sleeping and left this morning without interaction.
So... thoughts?
My thoughts are that like most of us were at some point, you are in denial. You are still very, very attached to her and pretending you're not. Why are you moving her stuff to the basement? I think if you're honest with yourself, you're hoping to get a reaction out of her. You're hoping to "scare her back". It won't work. Have patience, this takes time. Pull back. Give her time and space. Work on you.
Turbine, you have an awesome opportunity here to have AS involved in your thread. Heed his advice, he is very wise.
Moving her stuff to the basement... sure I suppose to get a reaction. We have a split level house and stuff everywhere. What I moved to the basement is containers she packed and parked in the living room. It is hard to clean when everything is overwhelmingly cluttered.
I don't intend on doing more than moving her thing. I won't throw out or damage it. Pointless action.. I also won't pack containers for her. That would seem antagonistic and therefore foolish. I have a yard to clear and a garage to clean.
Very attached... okay beyond a doubt.
No further rallying. If they ask or notice her ... that's them.
Thanks for the input, I was beginning to feel invisible...
Moving her stuff to the basement... sure I suppose to get a reaction. We have a split level house and stuff everywhere. What I moved to the basement is containers she packed and parked in the living room. It is hard to clean when everything is overwhelmingly cluttered.
Ah OK. Well it's OK to move stuff like that if it's just cluttering up the house, as long as you are doing it for you and not to scare her back if that makes sense.
Very attached... okay beyond a doubt.
And that's perfectly normal, but just try to be mindful of it because that attachment is what makes us keep the pressure on, and instigate R talks and such when we should be giving time and space.
Thanks for the input, I was beginning to feel invisible...
We're all volunteers here and a lot of us unfortunately can't be on here all the time, but we try to jump on when we can. Sometimes a lot of the vets are away from the boards all at once and it can make the newer people here feel ignored and alienated. Please don't think that, we do care a lot for you (and the others on here) and we try to help as often as we can. If you don't get many responses it's often because we're tied up elsewhere, not because of you. One thing that helps is if you ask for feedback on certain issues. A lot of people come here and journal, then complain when no one responds. But if they're just journaling, it doesn't sound like they need any input. Does that make sense? So ask questions and ask for feedback on situations you're going through.
I have been trying to be mindful of the attachment and working hard to keep it from having me make errors. Like moving her stuff vs doing something to her stuff. So far I have been able to have reason win over emotion. I'd like to have a R talk... but I will wait for her to initiate the conversations. She did go out last night with her friend. My comment was to have a good time. Don't know when she got back. I had fallen asleep.
As for the invisible feeling... quick story...
While I was stationed in San Diego for a shore rotation I worked in the equipment repair shop for the base. We did maintenance on the various industrial machines that provided support services to the ships. We also did the installation and removal of equipment as needed.
One of the installs was to put in the corrosion control equipment into a rehabbed building. We cleared out the old stuff, ran new electric, installed an air system, etc. We had to assemble the powder coating booths, the flame spray booths and then move them to the building and put them in place. Pits were dug so the carts holding the parts to be coated could just be rolled in at ground level. The booths were about three feet up from the ground to allow for a grit collection system that made up the floor.
Turns out there were several things not planned for nor shared with the manufacturer of the powder coating booths. First was these were supposed to be build in place. Second there was a model already designed to be put into a pit. Government contracts...
So we build the booths and had to weld on additional pieces to move them. Warranty was voided already by this time, moving just made it absolutely void. We built boom extensions for the 15K forklifts and drove one of them down the street suspended between two forklifts. Second was driven over by Public Works on a low boy trailer.
Once the booths were at the location, dropping them into the pits was the next step. All the supervisors were trying to figure it out and I said back in, turn this way with the booths about 6 inches up. Go slow enough in the turn that if the steering wheels start coming up we stop and back up. If not then we drive forward slow and when over the pit lower into place.
Our immediate supervisor said be quiet that is stupid. Not more than thirty seconds our Chief is saying exactly what I just finished saying.
Okay, not so quick. But true. I can't preface it with the proper phrase.
Other thoughts?
Filling out disclosure questions. What an intrusive list. On the advice of my attorney it is being reciprocated. Yeah a lot of this could have been avoided if we weren't going this route.
I'm not happy having to do it. Not happy having her do it either. It would be time better spent on me, her and us. So I will settle for me right now.
I can't imagine she will be happy about doing it either.
I don't suppose any of you out there would share your thoughts/experiences with disclosure (general thoughts, details not really needed). I can see this making her think this over or become more committed to continuing this course.
I need some feed back ASAP on this please.
W and I have joint checking account and her direct deposits have not been going to the account. Yes she still has access to it. Got an email about the account that a bill was paid from the account. Legit bill but she paid it. Lawyer is drafting a response to disclosure to send her lawyer.
So do I only tell lawyer or tell W to remove herself from account or put the money in from wherever she is sending her pay?
I don't want to make a mistake and I don't want to get shafted either.
You need to have a conversation about finances and talk with your W about the best way to handle things going forward (you are still living together, right?). Definitely don't cut her off without having a conversation as that never turns out well. If she isn't paying into the account but can pay bills and write checks from it, you are asking for trouble.
Yes, still living together. She moved into one of the kids rooms. Along with most of her stuff. Very crowded but hey... her choice.
Not planning on a cut off. She sort of did that when she stopped her direct deposits. I split mine earlier but I can transfer money from one to the other. Her other account is a separate bank.
I reminded my BiL that he needs to give me the money for the month and not her. I can cut the check for the bill she claims to be paying with it.
I know that doing anything to them or their stuff is never a good idea. What I'd like to do is get back to a MR. Not the one that got us here but more Version 2.0
I suppose right now is equal to clearing out the old OS to install a new one. (Operating System)
Sorry, work abbreviations sneak in sometimes.
Turbine,
what Davide says is true. I wanted wayyyyy too long to make a strong move financially and it was very dumb.
Guess I have to have that conversation tonight. She has been going back to Church, something that has been a big part of her. Said after that week of covering for home care we would clean the house. Not much there. We cooked a dinner the other night. Spaghetti... didn't eat together but we cooked together.
Really thin stuff I know. I guess that means I am still in denial... or want this to work out ending in a MR 2.0
I guess I'm not so tough. I don't want to be selfish either.
Don't worry that you're not so tough, you're still improving right?
So what if you want it to work out in MR 2.0? That's a good goal, just make sure you are working to achieve that.
We had no conversation. W had left in the morning for Church and was gone all day. Not happy about that but I just observed and said nothing about the all day. That was not easy but I stuck to it.
Asked about her paying the cable bill from the joint account. Not fair since not paying in. W replied we are selling the house so doesn't matter. Also that I should remove her from joint account.
My response was she needs to do that. In the meanwhile moving money out seems like my best route. My being frugal and move money back to cover auto pays.
This is a personal improvement question more or less. Much is stressed about GAL activities. Try new activities, make new friends/hang out with old friends. Go to the gym etc.
So this is a three part thought...
First, for my trip to visit my oldest D and the three granddaughters. She is excited as am I. At my request we are keeping it as secret as possible from the kids. I'd like to surprise them. Of course the baby won't know or care either way so its more for the older two. I am going to bring some frozen custard from the local shop. Key Lime Pie and Maple Bacon (which is awesome on a waffle) as a treat to share and I'll leave there if we don't finish it.
Second, my daughter's BF works as a tattoo artist as a side job (primary is auto mechanic) and they are both excited about my visit since I could get a tattoo. I know... personal choice. I did 12 years in the Navy without getting one and at 55 years I am thinking about it now. W portrait came to mind but rejected for a few reasons. One, lots of time under the needle for a first tattoo. Second, God forbid, this falls apart that would be more than a little awkward to explain to any future R partners. Third, that would be misunderstood by W as being pushy or something.
So I am currently looking at a Star Trek delta. Simple and I like Star Trek. Star Wars too but too many choices there.
Third, at what point do I inform the W if at all up too actually leaving. When I had suggested it before it was rejected outright. Thinking to not tell her for DB reasons. However it isn't a short trip and we don't get to see them often. If she were to unexpectedly change her mind and go she would need the time to cover her home care job.
I don't want this to be something she resents me for. Although at this point any and everything can fit into that column. I don't want to be a jerk and be the first to meet our newest granddaughter either. Part of it being worried she will do something at then house while I am gone? Maybe. Trust is nonexistent or close to it. She has done a few things that have shown me she isn't to be trusted at this point.
That covers it. I welcome any insight since being too close to this and not wanting to hold a chance for this from her can be impairing my thought process.
Definitely don't get W's portrait under any circumstances. If you want a tattoo for yourself, go for it. Live your best life. But leave her far, far out of it.
Don't worry about your W's reaction to your trip - it isn't for her, it is for you and the kids/grandkids. It sounds like she already resents you so that horse is out of the barn. I wouldn't tell her at all, but that is your call. You are out living your life without her.
Flash of insight. Proceeding on the idea this is a solo trip I believe I will check with the local library to see if there is an audio copy of DB.
Ok... not such a big flash. But would allow me to multi-task.
Just to be sure, for the LBS there really isn't much difference or that it matters if you have a MLC, WW WAS or whatever the reason to be here looking for answers or help. Am I correct?
Looking at other threads it seems there is a great deal of information that crosses over.
Although there are some shared things, mainly own improvment related, WW and WAS situations have a different approach.
I will continue reading. Preparing all the crummy paperwork associated with this Divorce process. Hate that.
I saw mentioned more than once the DR and DB books are for the LBS only.
Men are From Mars and 5 Love Languages are for later. I get all of that. Also mentioned are Keeping Love Alive tapes. Is there a point something like that is also too little too late? Encourage the WAS, in my case W, to listen? Leave laying around? Bring up at some point in the future because I really want a future with as opposed to without. Aiming for the with but reluctantly laying ground work for without...
After reading a little of the WAS forum I have concluded I wasn't clear about my question before.
As far as I (a LBS) am concerned does whatever got W and me into this situation is more important than whether she is a WW, WAS, MLC, or ???. She is still looking to get out.
As the LBS, personal growth and giving the W space are important. Avoid questioning and be supportive. Avoid doing more of the same. Avoid pushy, snooping, rally family and friends etc.
Is there much difference because WW, WAS, or MLC all seem to share alot at some point. Not the same I know. So is it just the little stuff to encourage getting to a R and repaired MR. Over time and ever so gently...
As far as I can tell none of those designations make a big difference. Like you, I went searching for answers as to whether I was dealing with WW, WAW, or MLC. There are certainly some differences between them, but how you as the LBS handles it is nearly the same. Some people will say that you need to draw firmer boundaries with a WW, but I think that is important in any case. My W doesn't exhibit any of the craziness that mark a lot of the WWs but she is certainly wayward in the sense that she rebelled against our MR.
You don't need to be supportive, and there are things you should not support - being with OM or pursuing a D. You should validate, but that does NOT mean that you agree or support her. It means that you hear her and understand where she is coming from, even if you don't agree.
Turn the focus on you rather than her. What can you do to become a man only a fool would leave? What can you do to GAL? What goals do you have?
Second, my daughter's BF works as a tattoo artist as a side job (primary is auto mechanic) and they are both excited about my visit since I could get a tattoo. I know... personal choice.
OK well as someone who has a lot of ink, I highly recommend you check out this guy's portfolio first. Finding the right artist for you is a very lengthy and difficult process. Surely you have particular likes and dislikes when it comes to subject and style, and you need to make 100% sure that the artist is in sync with that because YOU are the one wearing it the rest of your life. Convenience is definitely not a reason to select an artist. I looked at probably 100 artists before finding one I felt was a good fit.
W portrait came to mind but rejected for a few reasons. One, lots of time under the needle for a first tattoo. Second, God forbid, this falls apart that would be more than a little awkward to explain to any future R partners. Third, that would be misunderstood by W as being pushy or something.
I've known a lot of people that got their SO's portrait or name inked on them. Without exception every one of them broke up. I swear that is the kiss of death to even a healthy relationship.
Third, at what point do I inform the W if at all up too actually leaving. When I had suggested it before it was rejected outright. Thinking to not tell her for DB reasons.
DB'ing covers getting out and GAL'ing and not going out of your way to share that with your W ("be mysterious"), however that does not extend to planning trips with the kids without informing her. You should by all means tell her. Since this trip is to see a new grandchild, I can understand your concerns about her being resentful about you going without her. I would suggest that you tell her you are planning the trip and plan on taking the kids, and ask her if she would like to go along. That way it is her choice and she can hardly resent you for whatever choice she makes.
The trip to see oldest D and granddaughters will be solo. Other two kids are grown and have other obligations. So just me. I can see if D has a preference. Having her (W) with for the trip would be a roller coaster. 9 hours one way... I would enjoy the time with her. At this point... not sure about her. I guess roll the dice.
As for the tattoo. I have seen his work. W got her tattoo from him, Carnation on her left shoulder. I am thinking a relatively simple tattoo. A Star Trek Delta w/ command star in a circle. Coloring in undecided at this time. Inclined towards not doing so. I am a big Star Trek fan and Star Wars fan. D boy friends was thinking a Yoda or Vader tattoo. So what I am thinking is far less intricate.
The trip to see oldest D and granddaughters will be solo. Other two kids are grown and have other obligations.
Oh OK well this is why it helps us if you post a signature with basic info on you and your W's age, how many kids and their ages, BD date, etc. Your comment about "At my request we are keeping it as secret as possible from the kids." made it sound like you were taking kids. If it's a solo trip then plan it and go and don't invite W or tell her anything about it.
So just me. I can see if D has a preference.
Just explain to D that given the present situation you're going to come up alone and you hope she's OK with that. Don't give her the choice of inviting W or not, you don't want her to feel like she's stuck in the middle.
D is super excited about that opportunity. Guess I will let the W know travel plans. That D would be very excited. Her choice, no expectations or other pressure. She goes or not on her preference. Attendance plans for Church too since the closest involves crossing the border.
Yeah... got to develop a signature line. Sorry.
I know... no contact means no contact. This morning I was running a little behind my normal morning routine. So I was taking my meds when W needed in. I said come in, you know to put her stuff down grab her toothbrush stuff. I needed to pop my pills into my mouth and take a drink. 15 seconds tops. She did enter and start.
Here is where I might have broke no contact. I noticed her hair was different. I said it looked nice. W response was sort of Grrr...
I wasn't trying to be in her way by being off schedule. Wasn't trying to do anything beyond be civil.
Was I wrong?
It feels like a roller coaster day.
For clarity, keeping it secret was from the granddaughters. My three know and are cool with the trip.
Okay... sort of infraction like don't do it again, this is a warning or penalty box infraction?
Ultimate goal of course is a healed and loving MR. Long ways off with lots of work ahead during and after. Or am I chasing a dream? I know ... only I can make that call. When you get confusing signals.... pay attention to what works and what doesn't. For ever... right?
W didn't go to Church mid week. I know.... if we are in the same house I know when she is home. I am giving her space and time. Doesn't make it any easier.
Trip to see oldest D and granddaughters.... yup excited about the time there. 9-10 hours on the road... not so much.
So would like to be moving closer rather than apart. Guess she isn't there yet. Bummer. Until then I'll keep working on everything I can to break that image she has of me.
Okay... sort of infraction like don't do it again, this is a warning or penalty box infraction?
Ultimate goal of course is a healed and loving MR. Long ways off with lots of work ahead during and after. Or am I chasing a dream? I know ... only I can make that call. When you get confusing signals.... pay attention to what works and what doesn't. For ever... right?
As in I wouldn't worry about it and just try to do better in the future.
Guess I will let the W know travel plans.
After I just said not to? LOL! At the end of the day it's your choice, but I think what a lot of LBS's don't fully understand is just how much their WAS is repulsed by their presence. They can't stand to be around the LBS and just want to push a button and make them disappear. So any little compliment, invite, etc. just makes them want to throw up. It really is that bad. You've got to do the opposite- give her time and space. What does that mean? LEAVE HER ALONE!!!
Yeah... got to develop a signature line. Sorry.
I see it there, thank you!
Here is where I might have broke no contact. I noticed her hair was different. I said it looked nice. W response was sort of Grrr...
As Steve said it's nothing to get worked up about. But given her reaction, it should be clear to you now that such comments are unwelcome to her right now. A lot of LBS's try to "make up for lost time" by saying and doing things that they didn't in the M to try and "nice" their W back home. But the WAS sees such things as "too little too late".
ugh I hate myself for all those stupid comments I made with that response from WW. So much easier to not say a word and move on, don't have to think of something to say on short notice then decipher the response then figure if I should respond to her response......move on by with NC
Guess I will let the W know travel plans.
After I just said not to? LOL! At the end of the day it's your choice, but I think what a lot of LBS's don't fully understand is just how much their WAS is repulsed by their presence. They can't stand to be around the LBS and just want to push a button and make them disappear. So any little compliment, invite, etc. just makes them want to throw up. It really is that bad. You've got to do the opposite- give her time and space. What does that mean? LEAVE HER ALONE!!!
Yeah... got to develop a signature line. Sorry.
I see it there, thank you!
Here is where I might have broke no contact. I noticed her hair was different. I said it looked nice. W response was sort of Grrr...
As Steve said it's nothing to get worked up about. But given her reaction, it should be clear to you now that such comments are unwelcome to her right now. A lot of LBS's try to "make up for lost time" by saying and doing things that they didn't in the M to try and "nice" their W back home. But the WAS sees such things as "too little too late".
I haven't shared and based on her reaction about complimenting her hair... I won't mention unless she asks. Which will probably be after I am already there.
As for complimenting her hair and appearance in general. I have always tried to notice her efforts and tell her she is gorgeous, beautiful, etc... so no guarantee that was the reason for the grrr from her. Understand it doesn't change my course going forward.
Any extra info deemed useful on the signature line?
Been a few days since I had anything to add here. My overall self is still in turmoil. I'm trying to detach and all that. Was today ever difficult for that. I don't know why either although and educated guess is I still have expectations. After 31 years that is normal right? I, like almost everyone else here, would rather be in a different relationship with their SO, a happy healthy MR.
Went to Church today, carpooled with BiL. Two cars from same start to same end point seems really dumb. Anyway today we picked up my MiL and SiL because neither of them drives or lives with us. My Bil gives very poor directions. However now that I know where she lives that trip won't be an issue.
After Church we stopped for brunch. My BiL covered 2/3 the meal cost. I got to spend time with my MiL and show her pictures of my contribution to her great granddaughters. I hope she gets to see them again in person. She is getting pretty old but is in good health as far as I know. She remembers hiding from the Japanese as a child when the Philippines was occupied in WWII.
Don't know if W went to Church. I know I shouldn't worry or care. I do though. Even if I won't ask her about it or mention it to the minister I have been talking to. Conversations with him are limited to my faith and returning to church now. I made that mistake and am willing to let it cool off. Will he forget? Unlikely so time will tell how that plays out. Like the rest of my sitch. If you have been reading along (thank you) you know my preference there. In God's hands now.
I hope everyone has a good week. I plan on finishing this week in great spirits and have new memories with my eldest D and granddaughters.
I really need to get better at the detach because it seems all my thoughts are about missing her... is that right?
I am going back and re-reading Michelle's articles. Going through the one titled "While Your Spouse Decides".
His approach worked, for him. Does that conflict with LRT? Because I am not feeling or sensing a change. If one of her complaints was ignoring her isn't this more of the same? Because doing a 180 gets into pressure territory. Don't want that. Want her back, willingly.
This feels so twisted. Got to beware the Minotaur...
It's very hard from a short anecdote like that to really see if applies in your personal situation. We have no idea why his W wanted the separation and what their problems were in the MR. It's also hard to say whether the 'friendship' is what brought her back to him. There could be a host of other factors that were in play as well.
I know what your fear is. I had the same thing - my W felt that I was not there for her as much as she wanted. But doing a 180 on that works if both of you are committed to working on the marriage. At this point, she's beyond that and so what you think would be the logical improvement you need to make isn't going to work. i know it's tricky. I would err on the side of giving her space, lots of it. Stay NC/dark; don't ignore her communications - keep a line open, whether it be text, email, phone etc that works best for you; decide how you will respond to her communications and what requires your attention for a response; always be polite and civil in your communications; and do the DB stuff like GAL, personal development in areas you need to get better at etc.
This one is hard and takes time, but you need to give up the want and expectation of her coming back. Drop the rope and go on your detachment journey and do what's best for you.
Want her to come back... absolutely. Expect her... when she BD and I was doing all the wrong stuff she was not happening, move on, find someone better, go date... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot... really?
They all say that. It's their way of coping with doing what they're doing that. Which is why you don't need to worry about it brother.
You sound like you're still in the playbook. And by that I mean, you're hoping to run the right play, score the game winning TD, and ride off into the sunset with your W. That's normal and understandable, but is probably not a good mindset to be in. Let her go. Work on you.
I understand DB is about the LBS. Isn't this the point though... to save the MR.
What I have been gathering is there isn't a "Hail Mary" and ride into the sunset. Work and lots of it.
I never imagined being in this sitch. Always thought forever meant forever.
I understand DB is about the LBS. Isn't this the point though... to save the MR.
The point is to save yourself. Sometimes the MR is saved in the process. The point of DBing is to STOP trying to save the MR and by doing that sometimes you save it. Counter-intuitive....but it does work better than actively trying to save the MR (IE pursuit and pressure).
What if my vision of being saved is an intact and loving MR with my W. Does that mean my vision is flawed or that I have tunnel vision? I am trying to not pressure or pursue. Some actions I have taken, i.e. returning to Church could be viewed as pressure. Yet if I stop then her view is vindicated. Even if returning to Church is motivated by more than saving our MR.
Am I still digging that hole and just have thrown away the shovel to start with a backhoe instead?
What if I don't want to accept 'sometimes'? Does that mean I am doomed in this? Have I messed this up beyond redemption?
That is fine to have that as a goal. DB'ing is probably your best chance of saving the marriage.
If you don't want to accept that you "sometimes" save it and "sometimes" don't, you're just delusional.
There is no magic potion. It takes two people for the R to work, and you only get to control yourself. You aren't beyond saving it either, so relax. You are in panic mode, I get that. Now you need to try to think rationally and get a hold of yourself, for your marriage's sake if you won't do it for yourself.
Thanks... thirty one years.... hard to just see it get tossed aside.
I don't want to accept failing. I want to do everything I can legally under the sun to succeed. Except two things. I won't do those willingly and that is divorce and separation. Willingly... dragged into it is another story.
Is that better and more rational?
Still in a 'panic' mode. Seems today is going to be a down slope on the roller coaster. Putting effort into fighting that. Binge eating a pint of frozen custard ain't happening so the diet and exercise efforts are safe.
Have been unable to sleep properly for way to long to remember. Years at this point. Stress, age, who knows what. This certainly doesn't help.
When I do wake up in the middle of the night my mind is going full speed. Missing W beside me... I still sleep only on my side of the bed. I wonder if I should get rid of it. Or at least take it apart. We have another bed in the house... Yeah... not rational and panic driven.
T, just take a step back. Take a deep breath. Find ways to cope with your fear. Your fear will cause you to do things that are counter-productive. That is bad.
For me when I was scared, fearful, in full panic mode, I turned to prayer. Not sure if you are spiritual or not, but that helped me in 80% of the cases.
In the 20% of cases where it didn't help I did things that were counter-productive. This set my sitch back. My sitch turned around fairly quickly (~ 3 months). I think my setbacks set us back at least 2 weeks, maybe longer. I did some bad things until I found this forum.
Exercise and returning to Church have been helping. That includes prayer on a much greater frequency than before BD. Wife doesn't know. Why should she since prayer should be private and personal with God. Besides my returning to Church and God, while inspired in great part by her, are for me.
I haven't acted on most counterproductive thoughts. I recognize them for that. Doing harm to her stuff for example. If I take her pictures down, I handle them like I would my own. I even got new license plate screws for her car because the ones there are rusted. It bothers me, so I want to fix that.
Maybe some OCD issues here. I like things to be right, taken care of etc. That runs in the family to various degrees. Might be upbringing too. Not important... ? IDK since it might be annoying to her. Hmmm... need to tighten up the loose ends on this.
Are you in IC? I would highly suggest you get into it if not.
I am not. I believe bunch of this is from the stress, not just from W and the BD. I also believe it would help a great deal if this were to become working on reconciliation and the MR rather than continuing toward D. Takes two and I can only work on me by myself. Hopefully she notices and makes the change in mindset too.
Get into IC. It will really be worth it especially based on what you just said.
To dependent sounding or ???
No because you mention stress.
Yes. $$$, retirement plans, etc... She wants to retire in the Philippines. Our children and grandchildren would be here. Yes, our money would probably last longer there but it seems she was planning this with no or little consideration of my input. Sure we have family there. I don't feel right in having nieces and nephews taking care of us in our old age in place of our children.
We both went back to school and got into too much debt. Owe too much on the house. Really unhappy with the state we are living in even though I was raised here and we raised our kids here.
On a side note, W wasn't home last night. No idea where or if she is safe. No police showing up on the doorstep with bad news so I guess she is safe. I pray she is safe. With as messed up my emotions are over a D, I don't think I could handle that.
God, I so want us to be together. I pray that is your plan for us. Even more I pray that I accept your plan for us. I don't want You to be on my side, I want to be on Your side.