Hi all. I've been actively reading these threads over the past few weeks and have ordered my copy of DR.
A bit about my sit. W37, S8, D6. Married 8, together 12.
So much has happened / is happening so I will try and keep it as brief as I can.
Always had a quite tempestuous relationship with W although on the whole I feel we have been solid, trusting and very successful. W loves being busy - too busy. She also loves being 'the boss' and I have felt a bit of a power struggle over the years which in my mind is totally unnecessary, I always view us as a team. It is exhausting. She also travels a lot in her work which involves lots of partying and 'socialising'. I stay home and mind kids, run house and business. In recent months she began to go away for work an awful lot and also when she came home, out with friends. I could feel us drifting apart. I would complain I wanted her home more but I think this drove her further away. There were things I saw on SM which gave me alarm bells. The arguments started and we were not getting on at all well. I asked about an affair which was denied.
During her travels last year she was in very close vicinity of two terror attacks and she told me she was 'having a breakdown'.
Amongst all of this, we are undertaking a massive house renovation (still ongoing) meaning the house is upside down and stuff everywhere. Also W company was struggling and she had to fire all her staff and was worried about her own position and her career in general.
She was complaining of not feeling herself, being anxious and stressed out about the smallest things etc. I am very hands on with the kids, house etc and manage most things for the family. During this phase there was still tension between us which I was trying to diffuse and I continued to take the burden of most of the things going on in our lives.
Then during one heated argument I asked if she loved me and she said 'I'm not madly in love with you no'. Then it was 'I don't want this anymore'. This was a bit of a bomb shell of course.
I asked what she needed and she said 'I don't know I hope it's just time'. Then she said 'I think I need to see someone'. I put all of this down to the stress of everything and tried to push it to the back of my mind while still taking on the burden of everything to relieve her as much as I could. She took some time off work, went out with friends for lunch, gym etc and she looked and sounded much better. We were getting on well. W stars reading lots of self help books etc. I am a little disturbed.
I asked what could I do better and she said 'you don't listen and you are controlling'. Now I was shocked at that one as I support her in everything and I do not stop her doing anything although I am in control of the family finances as I am much better with money than her. I then made even more effort to listen and not 'control' as much as I could.
Work stress and building works continuing.
She also has a friend who came out of the blue a few years back and was a bit OTT in my eyes. I had the feeling from the off that she was jealous of W as she can not have children and is not very well off etc. W starts spending quite a bit of time with this friend.
Two weeks pass and W goes out shopping, with D & S to see this 'friend'. I go to collect her after a couple of hours and W is totally drunk! I was shocked. W and friend are consoling each other! We go off to other friends that eve and W gets more drunk and begins telling her other nice friend, 'I don't know who I am any more', 'He's hard to live with', etc etc. Then she is telling her stories of a friend of the weird 'friend' who divorced her husband and is now happier than ever etc!
I confronted the W next day and she says 'No, this was nothing about us, were fine'.
Two weeks later, the wife is out with another friend, comes back really late and is a little distant to me. Very early next day I awake and the wife is gone. I go downstairs and wife is there wide awake. I ask what is going on, by now convinced of OM, and she again repeats the 'I don't want this anymore' routine.
Then it really starts to get fun. W decides to not sleep with me anymore and has not since. She wanted 'two weeks' during which I did all the usual mistakes, asking for another chance, what can I do, don't break up family, trying to be affectionate etc. I even booked a weekend away for us so we could get away from all the madness at home, away from the kids and speak etc. She said she'd think about it but the next morning sent me a massive ranting message about how angry she was I did that, wasting money etc and that she will not go or even consider it.
So after this period, we go for a chat and she tells me that she does not love me, does not miss me when she is away and has no desire to fix this marriage. Not even for the kids. Won't see anyone, wont talk to MC etc. I ask what she wants and she says, cold as anything, 'I want the house'! Shellshocked, I agree to split 'amicably' and work to everything split fairly. No mention of the kids interestingly.
During the next few weeks and months I am in a whirl. Trying to establish what is going on. Next moves etc. Emotions are very high. I decide that she is not thinking straight and that I am going to continue working and fighting. Then we begin to get on OK, relaxed, laughter, time with kids etc, all the while working on the house which is a total mess. Another mistake by me, I begin taking about the M and R. This flips her out and we have huge row where she mentions the D word. This pattern continued over the next few weeks and months and during this time W seems to be getting more and more distant and entrenched. I was being super nice, helpful, buying stuff etc. Suddenly the W tells me that the whole time we were together was bad, nothing good, I'm a terrible husband, only had kids to patch up problems, rewriting history. All manner of nasty and very untrue things. Very emotionless and matter of fact.
Suddenly the D work again. Huge emotional rows. W says 'I'm bipolar' which I was unsure if this was a flippant remark or not. W has now begun to stonewall me (which is a trait she has shown throughout the M) and gaslight. I know she has been talking with this 'friend' a lot and getting advice because this 'friend' has been through a divorce but has no kids of course. She is also speaking to others who are D. W seems to think it is simple, loads of people do it, won't affect kids etc. This is what I she wants etc.
Now there are paranoia and trust issues appearing. She thinks I'm hiding money which I am not. I am snooping to see what she is doing and saying. I saw that this 'friend' is actively trying to set the W up with a guy at her work and the W seems open to the idea! W is hell bent on this, getting our home valued, shouting that she is selling it, etc etc.
I found this forum during all my research and it was then I decided to try and change my approach.
I have now tried to GAL, distance and be as nice as I can when interacting, stopped talking about R and M or D, even bits of LRT - it's getting harder because W is trying to pick a fight at every opportunity and being quite nasty at times - put downs, name calling, gaslighting etc. Also when we get on well, she then drops in something to remind me of what is happening, to unsettle me. Very hard to keep CCCC when this is what you are up against.
W family are dead set against this. They think I am good for her. Interestingly she has barely spoken to them about any of this stuff. Only that she has been unhappy for a while and that this is what she wants. Only her sister appears to support her and I know she doesn't like me. W has been with her a lot too. Basically surrounding herself with these people who are telling her what she wants to hear.
W family think she is depressed. I think so too, but is there also MLC in there or does she just simply not love me, period? There is a family history of depression and bipolar. W aunt did similar thing but not as dramatic or devastating.
Now, just this week, W messages me that she wants 'legal separation' and is filing papers. I believe her and know she has been with this 'friend' again, advising her. I guess this is a step back from D, but still very destructive.
Am I fighting a losing battle? Am I doing LRT too early? If she starts a legal process on me I think I will not have any more patience and will have to accept even if the thought of my family breaking up and the effects on my kids will be devastating.
I didn't do a good job of keeping this brief did I? ;-)
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Thanks Cadet. I have read through most of those as a starting point. My main issue right now is I have lacked consistency I think.
uk, welcome to the board. You are not alone, and you will find that out here quickly.
First, follow all of Cadet's reading and advice. It is crucial. I see you are already working on GAL. But you need to commit to detachment. GAL will help you a lot with that, but the key to potentially waking your wife up from the fog is for you to truly detach.
Also when we get on well, she then drops in something to remind me of what is happening, to unsettle me
This is her rebelling against the MR. My W did this. When things went well, when we were operating as a team and functioning as a family, she'd remind me that she still wanted to leave. I am not sure this is to unsettle you as much as it is a effort to convince you, and herself, or even just to remind you both that she still want out.
Note, we have a saying around here that it always gets worse before it gets better. As you get better at detachment, GAL, 180s, and being the best uk82 that you can be, she will start to question her decision. This will upset her and she will lash out, rebel, etc. Most LBSs see that as a bad sign, but those are actually positive because it shows she is having an internal struggle against her proclamation.
So just read and study as much about DBing as you can. And keep posting here. And keep working on you and implementing the DBing techniques you learn about. There is always hope! We have folks here that have R with their WAS, or headed that way, even years after D! So never give up!
Thanks Steve85. That little nugget of information is very useful and I will remember that. I am going to swat up on DR when it arrives and never give up. My family needs me right now and I will accept this challenge.
I have two questions which (while I wait for my copy of DR) I would very much like some advice on because they are happening right now and I do not want to make matters even worse by reacting in the wrong way:
• When W talks of selling the house etc etc, do I just go along with it or do I put up resistance?
• She is almost certainly taking steps to file some kind of papers - not D but Separation. To do this she requires our marriage cert. I have taken this away. I know she was looking for it yesterday. Was this a mistake and if she confronts me do I deny all knowledge?
It's moving so fast. So hard.
I have two questions which (while I wait for my copy of DR) I would very much like some advice on because they are happening right now and I do not want to make matters even worse by reacting in the wrong way:
• When W talks of selling the house etc etc, do I just go along with it or do I put up resistance?
• She is almost certainly taking steps to file some kind of papers - not D but Separation. To do this she requires our marriage cert. I have taken this away. I know she was looking for it yesterday. Was this a mistake and if she confronts me do I deny all knowledge?
It's moving so fast. So hard.
Hiding the MC is a form of control, you’ve got to let her take the oath she is going to take, it will only antagonises her if you hide it. Re the house, if she truly wants to put the children first then I think it would be best to keep the children in the family home and your W to move out.
Thanks jaylove. The house - this is my thought too but she is being incredibly selfish in all of this. The other problem is that the house is very big and expensive - neither could afford to buy the other out.
Good advice on the MC. I am just trying to hold onto something to slow this juggernaut down. The speed in which she is trying to move is bad and things are just going to get messier and messier.
Hi uk. Take your time reading all you have to read. Time is what you´ve got. Use it wisely. The answers for your questions are there. Read validation and detaching.
You can´t control your wife actions. Let her do what she wants to do. Focus on yourself and take care of your kids.
There is a long journey ahead, and it´s all yours. Patience and strenght.
uk,
On both topics your role is not to actively resist, but not to help in any way. Hiding the MC was a mistake, and you should provide her with it at your earliest convenience. You can either come clean or just tell her that you knew she needed it and that you didn't want her prevented from doing what she felt she needed to do.
By not helping in any way I mean that you make her do all the work on both fronts. Don't lift a finger for either. If she is at work at calls and says she needs the MC copied and sent some where, you tell her you are busy and can't do it. You are too busy to help with selling the house. You do not have to announce that you are against both and therefore won't help because words are meaningless. SHOW her you are against it by not prioritizing any requests related to either one.
This is where GAL is important. GAL means you are busy from the moment you get up until the moment you go to bed. Always be busy.
Many thanks steve85. I think you are dead right. I need to rise above these negative, defensive thoughts. Be stronger. I am starting out on GAL and I intend to make it a very happy and fulfilling one.
Spoke with a L and they think the approach the W has decided on is a bad one, effectively making us go through a process twice. I do not really want to bring up any R or M of D talks so I guess I just needs to roll with it and hope for now.
I have thought of hiding the MC too, it’s a common reaction don’t feel guilty but at the same time deep inside you know that’s not the path you want to take.dont decide on the MH right now see how things pan out and make sure that you are not the one leaving home . Good luck
Thanks Arsh. Kids away at the moment on holiday with IL. W made it quite clear she would not be home during this period. She is spending most of her time with her other D friends who all are thinking this is great and giving her 'advice' as well as introducing her to OM. This is one of the hardest parts I am finding - the thought that she is sitting there with these witches who are stirring a cauldron of hate to effectively tear apart my family. How can I counter this? Or do I need to let it run it's course?
My copy of DR cannot arrive quick enough.
You can't control this. So you focus on the one thing that you can control.....you.
As you get better at detachment, GAL, 180s, and being the best uk82 that you can be, she will start to question her decision. This will upset her and she will lash out, rebel, etc. Most LBSs see that as a bad sign, but those are actually positive because it shows she is having an internal struggle against her proclamation.
WOW thanks for posting hat Steve85, I think you are right. That is a really important piece of info. W was recently bad to me on the phone after a good day. I was feeling happy afterwards. I was thinking 'I don't have to put up with it anymore but I also thought that 'there must be some sort of internal dilemma going on'.
Looking back over the last 3 months or so, I can recall a few instances where I seemed to peak the wife’s interest, even if it were momentarily. I think this was me GAL and detaching without realising it. My problem has been consistency. Examples include; I changed my hairstyle and wife complimented me on it. Then I wore a shirt to work instead of a t shirt and she noticed that too - asked if I was going out that night. Then I bought some new shirts and wife commented they were nice but not my ‘usual’ style. I just said I fancied a change. Then she said quite angrily that she had seen me looking at houses on my phone. I didn’t deny this. She was the one shouting she was selling the house! All of these things were before I found this forum but I have undone this good work by pursuing, clingy, needy and rising to the bait and getting into arguments.
Thanks Arsh. Kids away at the moment on holiday with IL. W made it quite clear she would not be home during this period. She is spending most of her time with her other D friends who all are thinking this is great and giving her 'advice' as well as introducing her to OM. This is one of the hardest parts I am finding - the thought that she is sitting there with these witches who are stirring a cauldron of hate to effectively tear apart my family. How can I counter this? Or do I need to let it run it's course?
My copy of DR cannot arrive quick enough.
You counter it by venting here? Think about what you would say to her about it...and what her response would be...
You can't do anything about the floozies coaching up your W. They're scum. You can't change them. They are perfect bc they don't judge your W, they validate everything she is doing. If they didn't, your W wouldn't be hanging around them.
Yes that is exactly right ovvrnbw. What would I say to my wife? They are jealous of you and want to bring you down to their misery. They do not have your best interests at heart, nor of the children. They think that D is nothing. One of them has no kids and been D twice at 36! That tells you how much she values the vows. The other had OM at work and decided to introduce the children to him before telling her H! The honeymoon period will soon pass for them. Oh dear what a sad state of affairs. What would my W say? Probably something like “they were brave, they were not happy, life is too short, they are happier now, they didn’t love their H, the kids will be fine, loads of people do this.” Grrrrrr.
You can't do anything about the floozies coaching up your W. They're scum. You can't change them. They are perfect bc they don't judge your W, they validate everything she is doing. If they didn't, your W wouldn't be hanging around them.
WOW that's a good point. At the start of the year W became close friends with a woman who had just left her H. I hadn't even known of that friendship until W had said she would be staying overnight at her house sometime.
In contrast, a friend has become a widow. W has barely spoken to her.
W only seems to message me now about our house renovation. Very matter of fact. She is on a mission. I tend to sit on the messages for a good while now and simply reply with yes, no, sure etc. I suppose this is detaching? Not read DR yet. I think I can do this. My dilemma I guess if that one of W many complaints and reasons has been that I didn’t respond to messages quick enough and when I did it was one word answers! Is this counter productive?
So the kids have been away for a few days with the IL. I've not seen the W during that time and barley heard from her. She sent me a very long message basically outling her plans for the coming days when the kids return. I just responded with a simple, sure, no problem.
No I have a few upcoming issues which have added more layers of complexity to my situation.
• My grandmother passed away. I have an upcoming funeral. I have not told the W when this is and she has not asked. I am assuming she will not be attending. Should I ask her if she is coming or would this be considered pursuit?
• W has a hospital procedure coming up which means she cannot drive for a week. She has told me she does not want me to be there. However she has asked for me to mind the children. I had some plans in the pipeline which now clash. Do I cancel so I can be there for the kids and W while she is recovering and cannot drive or is this pursuit and going against LRT?
Any advice very welcome.
Sorry to hear about your grandmother.
I wouldn't bring it up with your wife. She can attend or not, but that really isn't up to you and asking won't change anything.
My thought with the kids is that they need to be priority for you (not her) and I would rearrange my schedule for them (not her). I would spend time with them, but not her. Is that possible?
Thanks for the sympathy and advice Davide. Makes sense. It seems things are going very much according to plan for W right now. She is pushing forward with her plans for her new life and all the pieces are falling into place. For example, she has been actively telling everyone on her side that we are separating and seems quite proud of this. I have been much more cautious in what I’m saying and to who. The funeral situation is going to force my hand - everyone will be asking where she is. Also with the kids, W told me she is moving to having kids one weekend, me the next to ‘lessen the shock when we tell them and they are kind of used to it’. I’m dead against this sneaky approach but I feel powerless to stop it.
I cannot stop thinking about the W telling me last week that she was ‘filing papers for legal separation’. Having read up on this I was at first intrigued because this is a step back from the D which she has been ranting about. Then I was concerned because it is almost the same as D but you remain married. I have no idea of her intentions here as this approach seems ludicrous. I feel I need to just ask her but of course I am trying not to mention the R, M or D.
Has anyone any experience with a situation like this?
She has no idea what she wants UK, imagine your confusion , guilt and multiply it by a million times and she is feeling more than that. There is no clarity in her thoughts, D, S , R dont believe anything. In my sitch WH has been all over the map too, at one time he wanted to D and live together for the rest of our lives. And now he has moved out. You will have better luck finding the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow before you find logic and reason in what they say. Dont believe anything she says until it is followed by an action. - arshi
Don't lie to your kids, but don't rubs their noses in it.
As for changing an arrangement that sets a pattern for future custody issues, consult a lawyer. I don't think you want to agree to only having the kids sometimes, especially while still married.
If she "is filing", that means she hasn't yet. It's not something you can control, so try your best to focus your efforts elsewhere.
As for the one word answers and their productivity, I really don't know. A DB coach might have better advice. If she wants more than a quick response, why is she texting in the first place?
Great points Arsh and ovrrnbw. I will heed these pieces of advice moving forward. We seem to be getting to a point where communication is almost non existent. But I feel like I NEED to speak to her if only to halt the seeming inevitable destination of going through lawyers, I really do not want that. I have tried to speak to her about all manner of things, not even R, M or C stuff and she just starts a fight each time, accuses me of being angry or moody, criticising, talking down to her, calling her a victim and then states the conversation is over and walks off. I am trying so hard to ensure I am calm, collected and reasonable. I cannot allow this nasty atmosphere to continue and I will not go down the lawyer route especially if we have not even tried councilling or mediation first.
She has always said I was criticising or talking at her, thought I was her father etc. I could never understand this, as much as I tried, because I know it not to be true or meant in the way she perceived it. I always find her ultra sensitive and always taking a massive leap from A to Z with no plausible explanation in my eyes.
It sounds like your efforts to spur conversation are unproductive.
MWD says to do what works. If you don't know what works, then stop doing what doesn't work. In this case, your initiating conversation is counter productive.
From what I can see, when you two talk, she takes it as you are trying to fix her or guide her. Try rereading the validation thread and work on listening more.
Maybe your W is just picking a fight though. If she is clearly picking a fight, you don't have to engage.
Yes, sound advice ovrrnbw.
Just an update. W picking up children today from their holiday. W been away from the house the whole week. This has been strangely pleasant and has helped me start to detach. Now she is returning with the kids I am feeling slightly anxious. Can I do this? Can I stay cccc? Can I be nice to her but not engage? I’m just going to stay busy as I can. It is my D birthday tomorrow too so another hurdle as we play happy families.
uk the juggle you elude to is very tricky. I agree that in-house separations complicate detaching. No question. I've told others here that were physically separated that they have it a lot easier than they think. (Those in both circumstances always think the other is easier.)
Be upbeat. Pleased. Positive. Present. Don't start conversation, but don't ignore her. Don't follow her around the house, but don't run from her if she comes looking for you. Be completely plugged into the kids. Remember, detachment is not mean or unkind. Reread the detachment thread so you are ready for her return.
Same with D's birthday. Don't be cold to your W, but don't be overly engaging.
This is all an art not science. It is difficult to juggle. As you get better at it you'll know.
Thanks Steve. Ok so W returns. Kids very happy to see me. I’m happy to see them of course. W doesn’t say too much. I do not initiate conversation but am pleasant and just reply ‘hi’. W checks mail. I see MC copy so I now know she is going to file for the legal sep. I feel anxious but carry on regardless. Have dinner together. Speak about D birthday. All fine. W goes off to the home office to ‘work late’. I put kids to bed but cannot find their toothbrushes amongst the travel bags. Look in W bag and there in her wash kit are the kids toothbrushes - next to the lingerie and body lotion. Ok I think, don’t react. Now she has definitely but those toothbrushes there for me to find deliberately and wanted me to send the lingerie. She wants me to react in some way. I didn’t. Lo and behold W comes into house to see kids. To see if I’ve seen the evidence and if I’m going to do what she wants and expects - confront, get angry etc etc. I do 180 and do nothing but continue to put up birthday balloons for my D. Now if she has been off sleeping with some guy I don’t actually care anymore. But how do I draw my boundaries without looking like this has bothered me? I basically want to tell her if she wants to sleep around then fine, but I don’t want this kind of person around the kids so best you just leave. She is trying to push my buttons but I won’t rise. But I cannot let her be a cake eater. Please some advice.
Ok, what are your boundaries and what will you do if someone breaks them? You need to clearly define them and be prepared to enforce them.. W sleeping with another man does not mean you can stop her from seeing the kids, you can never enforce that. Now "I will not continue to live in a house where W sleeps with other men" is still a tough one because you still cant verify what shes doing, but it's closer to.
I get the frustration, these were always hard for me to do also as I'm not very confrontational. I do remember what didn't work and making the boundaries about controlling her won't work. It's all about you. There are old posts, Wonkas threads maybe?, that explain it better than I ever could but it boils down to what treatment you will accept and what you intent to do if someone crosses your boundaries.
For instance, one of my boundaries back then was to not allow someone to talk down to me. If W did I removed myself from the situation. I lived with in house separation for 9 months, it was hell. Dont look too hard into overanalyzing her actions and for the live of god stop snooping, its soul crushing. Everything you think shes doing to get a response out of you may not be the case at all. More often than not shes completely consumed with her new life and wants to do the base mininum to get away from you and to the happiness she thinks awaits her ahead without you.
Eventually my boundary was I will not live in the same home as someone who is off acting like a teenager and fooling around with other men. I moved out because she wouldn't. I had to enforce it the only way I could and live with the results.
Our boundaries can be hard to clarify but to be effective we have to enforce them and live with whatever consequences arise from them.
Eventually your boundary may be you will not be married to someone who sleeps with other men, if she only intends to legally separate and play the party girl you have to decide what you will do as a result.
Fogg, thanks so much for the reply and very wise advice. Now this lingerie thing is really bothering me. I was asking myself what about it was annoying me so much. It’s the disrespect. The flagrant disrespect she is throwing my way. Almost laughing in my face. I cannot and will not rise to it and get angry. That’s what she wants me to do. However, as we are no longer sleeping together and we are also still in the middle of home renovations and are down a bedroom, we’ve been taking turns in the bed and on a mattress in the living room. I’ve decided if she is sleeping with someone else then I do not want to be sharing the bed with her. I’ll have the bed, she’s on the mattress from here on in. That is my boundary here. I really want to throw her out but I know I can’t and she won’t go. How I broach this without showing her this ‘affair’ is bothering me or without starting a big angry fight I don’t know. Don’t think I can avoid either. But I’m growing my balls back and I will not stand for this any more.
I can understand why it would bother you, I've ran into similiar circumstances when I was living with my ex. Yours may not be trying to get any reaction out of you though, shes just in la-la fantasy land right now. Shes getting her legal separation and in her mind shes a free single woman, anything you do or say will like your trying to get into her business and control her.
I was a mess after BD, did all the wrong things. I ended up feeling 100% responsible and due to her anger I slept on the couch. I took around 3 months before my mind shifted and I realized she was the one who wanted to leave the M and I wasn't going to sleep on the couch anymore. When I told I was done sleeping on the couch and I planned to go back to my bed, she became hysterical. She went up and barricaded herself in the room with the bed against the door. I tried to talk to her but she was in the wrong mindset, I did not try to force myself into the room even though I could have. This is where you could encounter issues if she overreacts and its very important you have control of yourself, do not try to force anything. You state your position and if she wont physically you have to find another way to enforce it through calm strength, never force. I've heard advice on this forums before to move her things out of the marriage bedroom and basically tell her "I will not share the bed or bedroom with you anymore. You want out of this marriage, you can be the one to leave". Something along those lines anyway, you might have to look back at the boundaries.
As I said, its very important for you to control your side of things. There can be no angry argument if you are calm and don't get caught up in reactionary behavior. You have the power to avoid it by not engaging in that way.
The day after my ex locked herself in the bedroom we had a discussion and we came to an agreement where we split the room on different days, as you are doing now. Sure, I could have fought for the entire room and may even have gotten it, but at the time I wasn't as strong as I am now so it was a huge gain for me in terms of getting my balls back. She even apologized for acting so irrational and emotional the night before.
Do not do any of this to get a reaction out of her, to teach her a lesson,to control her, to punish her. Again, boundaries are about you
Fogg, I’d like to read your sitch. Can you share the link please?
Ok, so today and this evening were interesting to say the least. W been threatening to tell the Kids for few weeks even months. I have been very firm that I must be present and we must agree what is being said. This morning the convo comes up again, instigated by W I might add, about the house being sold etc and along the way comes up the kids thing again. As always I tell her she needs to deliver the speech. I go out this afternoon for a few hours and when I return W tells me she has told the kids! I am furious - how dare she do that without me, not being there for the kids and not knowing what she has said. Tells me they were fine and they are excited to get two bedrooms, two birthdays, two lots of toys! I am so very angry, who died she think she is! She looks sheepish and offers a pathetic apology which I decline. Later when she leaves I speak to my children and discover that W only told them we would have two houses. My son was crying, trying to hit W and stormed to his room. Quite the different story W told me.
So during this exchange things got very emotional again and I think I totally blew DB again. I’m not sure I can do this anymore. I cannot trust her one iota. She lying about filing for legal sep. Has no lawyer. Had done no research. Tells me I need to divorce her! Angry I know so much about the process. Angry I looked into options to buy her share of flat. Angry I haven’t procrastinated on these things like I normally would. That we are selling the house and she is getting a lawyer to push it through. So on and so on. I did not validate. I was not as if. I showed her by my reactions that I haven’t even begun to detach even though I thought I had. It was left that I need to tell her a day this week when we can sit down and discuss all of this and how to split.
I am I no doubt now about two things; she is definitely siluffering from a mental breakdown, most probably MLC with depression and secondly that I have totally blown DB and will surely end up with a broken family. She is too hellbent.
Help please.
Dude, read your thread.
Firstly, calm down... Your sitting in a very good spot if she hasnt hired a lawyer. It means shes not as serious or determined if she had. Mine has a lawyer. If you really care deeply about your kids, treasure this time with them. You can see them any time you want. Read them stories etc. If you do split, that will be gone at least 50% of the time.
Its been said that limbo is the gift of time. You have a chance to turn it around. If she divorces, it becomes harder to do. IMO. Again, dont do her work for her. Passive resistance.
Not to upset you, but asking her if she is having an affair is pointless. I confronted my wife at OM1's door and she still denied it. Untill I was moving to knock on the door did she finially admit it. Read sandi's posts. To me it seems to coincidential.
Trust me, it adds a whole new level of anguish finding her leaving the house with toys and lube to meet OM. It does make you question if DB is really whats needed.
Take care man. One day at a time, and remember, it wont always be like this.
Thanks.
Thanks Cdn. I appreciate you reading my sitch. I had been doing so well, keeping calm, not rising to her antics, but that low blow with telling the kids just totally got me. She is bang out of line. I just don’t know if I can even be with someone like this anymore. I need to be strong for my children and detach so her words and actions do not affect me. That is where I need to get to. W went out last night and has not returned this morning. She is taking kids to her sisters tonight which I am not happy about but I guess I have not choice on that.
I’m finding DB full of difficult contradictions; GAL but be there for the kids (very hard when they are so young). Don’t engage in any R, M, D talks but being constantly challenged on it by W. Detach and do 180’s when what I’m being accused of is procrastinating, lack of empathy, not being romantic, ignoring messsges etc. Doing 180s here would be the opposite of detach! So difficult.
I will not divorce her. I’m going to make her do the dirty work. Any advice welcome.
uk, we all struggle with these things. But the contradiction isn't with DBing. It is with your WAW. She wants a D, but wants you to be romantic? She wants space but accuses you of ignoring messages?
Here is the thing, even if you did everything perfect, from this point forward, it wouldn't be good enough for you WAW. You are still focused on her. BELIEVE nothing she says.
GAL is not in contradiction with young kids. Either they are with you and you are engaged with them, or they are with her. When they are with her you are busy. You are occupied. When you are around she is finding time to go out, correct? Why can't you also go out when she is around? Also they have these things called babysitters in case your goings out conflict.
Empathy? Yes you should be empathetic. That is what validation is for! Read that thread. Over and over again. Become a validation master! Note: validation also works in other relationships. I have been using validation at work. It is a great technique!
Never ignore messages. But also, do not response to messages that do not require a response. See the difference? If she asks a question, answer it. IN AS FEW WORDS AS YOU CAN. Yes or no answers should be answered with a yes or no. All other questions should be answered directly in as few words as possible.
My understanding is that your W is still in an active A (sorry if I am misremembering). So why would you care about her complaints??! She is sleeping with someone else but is complaining you aren't being romantic? That you are procrastinating? That you are unempathetic? And that you ignore messages? Yeah, no of things compare with getting naked and allowing another man to use her body sexually. See how ridiculous that sounds!?
DBing isn't contradictory. It may contradict with what your instincts are telling you. Your instincts are wrong and will end up getting you to where you don't want to go. DBing is guaranteed. Maybe not guaranteed to save your MR, but it is guaranteed to save you from yourself!
I’m finding DB full of difficult contradictions; GAL but be there for the kids (very hard when they are so young). Don’t engage in any R, M, D talks but being constantly challenged on it by W. Detach and do 180’s when what I’m being accused of is procrastinating, lack of empathy, not being romantic, ignoring messsges etc. Doing 180s here would be the opposite of detach! So difficult.
I will not divorce her. I’m going to make her do the dirty work. Any advice welcome.
Great comments from Steve. I'll add a few as well:
GAL but be there for the kids
GAL stands for "get a life". Too many people here think it stands for "go to bars and drink". If you have small kids then INVOLVE them in your GAL activities. Take them to the zoo, go to the park and fly kites, go to the museum, build something with them, plant some flowers, go for a walk. Yes you should have some GAL activities that involve hanging out with adults as well, but there is no contradiction in involving kids with GAL. The purpose of GAL is to get you busy, give your W time and space, and take your mind off your sitch.
Don’t engage in any R, M, D talks but being constantly challenged on it by W
This is a common misinterpretation. DB'ing isn't to not "engage" in those talks, it is to not "initiate" those talks. If your W brings it up then that's fine, but your job isn't to fight/ argue/ negotiate/ etc. it's to LISTEN and VALIDATE. But don't ever bring it up yourself.
Detach and do 180’s when what I’m being accused of is procrastinating, lack of empathy, not being romantic, ignoring messsges etc. Doing 180s here would be the opposite of detach!
Again this is a common misunderstanding with new DB'ers but detaching does NOT mean to be cold and indifferent. Read Sandi's rules, they are all about LOVINGLY detaching. Detaching is simply giving your W time and space and focusing your energies elsewhere on you and your kids. It's about not pursuing her. It's about respecting her wish to be separate from you. Don't procrastinate if you normally do, by all means show empathy (that is what validation is all about), don't ignore her messages. As far as being romantic, well yeah that one is going to have to wait until way down the road. But those other things you can still do 180's on.
Great notes Steve and AnotherStander- really helpful for my sitch and have been pasted into my secret document
Thanks so much
Great points, great clarification. Thanks guys. However, without trying to sound like I’m making excuses, I already do lots of stuff with the kids when I have them and always have. But W is constantly moving goal posts and pulling the rug from under me with her own plans. For example, yesterday I got kids all bathed and ready for a day out at mini golf. Kids were excited. W comes back from her sisters where she had been overnight and suddenly my D doesn’t want to go golf, she wants to be with mummy. W is calling shots on when she is going to be there and when she isn’t. Massive cake eating. If I resist it causes a fight. I’ve avoided the babysit thing because I want to be with them. Maybe I’m enabling the cake eating by doing this?
Being with them is good. Being with them without limits is a problem. Make plans for the next time she is scheduled to have them, have a babysitter as a back up plan. That way when she changes plans you still have GAL activity. Adjust to her but don't give up what you want or need to do it. Adapt or die.
You can view anyone's threads but clicking on their name->View Profile->Show Posts->Topics Created
Good points by the above posters. Much of what we think are contradictions in DB end up being ourselves resisting the ideas due to fear. Fear of losing our identity we meshed too much into our W's, fear of the future, fear of the unknown. Its also good to point out what we read on the forums doesn't always line up with what the coaches recommend and there isn't always one method for every situation. Some techniques will work better for some people.
Eventually you will come to a point where you redefine what DB means to you. For me it didn't turn into saving my M and looking back on it I wouldn't want it now anyway. It turned into finding myself and I'm more than OK with that now. Sure, it saddens me my kids are forced into a situation they cant control, but living in a broken family doesn't doom them. The best thing you can do to help them through this is become the best version of yourself you can be and make the right choices in terms of them with the things you can control, your side of the fence.
The hard pill we all have to swallow is nothing we do is guaranteed to save the M and family we always expected we would have. Your W determines where her life goes and you cant and shouldn't try to control that. You may have some influence applying the right techniques but that still wont guarantee anything. DB only fails if you fail to use it to remake a better version of yourself, that's what you have control over in the end.
As long as you two don't have a set schedule on who has kids and when this will keep being an issue. She will cake eat and come and go as she pleases and that type of structure/stability isn't the best for the kids anyway. My ex did the exact same thing, toward the end we had to make a rough schedule of who would have kids and when so each of us could get personal time. The limbo phase is strange transitional phase, you aren't divorced yet but aren't married either so you have to adjust how you two interact and parent the kids.
We started by putting in the main things such as appointments and work, around that we scheduled time with or without the kids in advance so it was known and the other could schedule also. Say I had plans to go to the zoo on Saturday with the kids, I would put it on the calendar and it was mostly a first come first serve case, within reason, for each week. There will be come conflict but do your best to be reasonable with her without being a doormat. You will have to have a discussion about this at some point to gain some structure to it all.
One last thought, in her eyes shes doing nothing wrong. You will see it as breaking apart the family and anything she does with the party life is madness and irresponsible. In her eyes shes said shes done and is now a single women, she can and will do whatever she wants. "its just a piece of paper" that ties you together now, as my ex claimed.
However, without trying to sound like I’m making excuses, I already do lots of stuff with the kids when I have them and always have.
Good, as long as it doesn't involve W then you're already doing some GAL'ing. My point wasn't that you do or do not do it currently, I was just clarifying to you that it is not a contradiction, you can in fact GAL with your kids.
But W is constantly moving goal posts and pulling the rug from under me with her own plans. For example, yesterday I got kids all bathed and ready for a day out at mini golf. Kids were excited. W comes back from her sisters where she had been overnight and suddenly my D doesn’t want to go golf, she wants to be with mummy. W is calling shots on when she is going to be there and when she isn’t. Massive cake eating. If I resist it causes a fight. I’ve avoided the babysit thing because I want to be with them. Maybe I’m enabling the cake eating by doing this?
I tried reading back to see if you two are separated and saw that you mentioned she wanted to file for legal S, but I couldn't figure out if you're still living together right now? If so then yeah that makes the above situation a tough one because you can't control when your W comes and goes and how your kids will react. In the above example I wouldn't push your D to go, if she doesn't want to then just tell her that it's her decision to make, but that you and S are going anyway. I don't think you're really doing anything to enable your W's cake-eating in this example, it was just a case of bad timing.
EDIT to add that's a great post from Fogg above.
Just to clarify, we are still in house together, major building works going on so house is a mess, bedrooms all over the place. It has made the situation even harder. W swans in and out as her mood takes her. This is my predicament. I think given what you said AStander, I did the right thing. I did exactly as you suggested above.
Some great advice and encouragement from everyone here. It is appreciated very much.
Just to clarify, we are still in house together, major building works going on so house is a mess, bedrooms all over the place. It has made the situation even harder. W swans in and out as her mood takes her. This is my predicament. I think given what you said AStander, I did the right thing. I did exactly as you suggested above.
Some great advice and encouragement from everyone here. It is appreciated very much.
Good, yes I agree it sounds like you did just fine. Separation seems terrible and scary, but a lot of times it really helps with these situations because you can establish rules and boundaries that you can't have while living together. It also gives the WAS the time and space they want so badly.
Yes, but she won’t budge AStander. She wants house sold, end of. So she can ‘have her own house’ so she said yesterday. I kind of suggested she go and get some space and even suggested paying for it but she won’t have it. I know this was a mistake on my part but emotions got the better of me. Damn I was doing so well. Interestingly she also has NOT done a thing about the separation although she told me she had. It was apparent when we were discussing it yesterday as she did not know anything about the process or forms and I did as I had researched it thoroughly. I asked why the separation rather than D - Her reasons ‘I didn’t want to write nasty stuff about you’. Trouble is, in legal sep. you need to still give reasons as in D! This gave game away. She then said she had no feelings for me ‘at the moment’.
I know I cannot control this but my fear is that she will do this irreparable damage to the family and our life and later realise what she has done once the fog has lifted and reality sets in.
I’m sure this is MLC and depression at play.
uk, she is talking right now. WASs are notorious for talk. Is she doing anything to sell the house? Worry about that when you see action!
My W talked constantly about getting a job and getting her own apartment. My initial snooping found she was even researching apartments. When I gave her an ultimatum about transparency early on she started working on her resume.
Action right? Even action sometimes isn't action. Web searches on the topic and even working on something isn't the same as applying for jobs, and once she had enough cash, applying for an apartment. See the difference.
"I want to buy my own house!" So easy to say. Do you see any action on that? Is she contacting realtors? Is she going on viewings? You said your current house is being renovated, could you even put it on the market right now?
LBS love to worry about things they shouldn't. She won't budge. WHO CARES? It doesn't change what you should be doing.
I know this was a mistake on my part but emotions got the better of me. Damn I was doing so well.
Don't sweat it, no one thing got you to this point and no one thing will make or break it now that you're here. DB'ing is not about doing everything right 100% of the time, it's about trying things and seeing what works and doesn't work and adjusting your approach accordingly.
Interestingly she also has NOT done a thing about the separation although she told me she had.
Very common. If you can effectively remove the pressure she may just let it sit indefinitely.
She then said she had no feelings for me ‘at the moment’.
Just listen and validate. "I understand you have no feelings for me, I am sorry you feel that way."
I know I cannot control this but my fear is that she will do this irreparable damage to the family and our life and later realise what she has done once the fog has lifted and reality sets in.
I understand your fear, I had the same fear. Mostly I was afraid that my kids would be wrecked. And to be sure they did go through some rough times, but they got over it and they are all doing fantastic. One has her degree and is working and another just got her degree last Friday and started working today. My fear was unfounded, because despite the M falling apart my kids had two very loving parents who gave them 100% support all the time. Rather than fretting over what damage this will cause your kids, ask yourself what you can do to get them through this with as little impact as possible, and then do it. A lot of us were checked out dads near the end of our M's and became much more involved after BD. Many LBS's report having a stronger relationship with their kids than ever before. So BD can be a blessing in disguise.
Detach detach detach....
It's not your circus anymore. She might have set you up to see stuff, she might not have.
I know you cant avoid stuff. The kids need their tooth brushes. Mine I needed to refill the hand soap, and she had stuff under the sink. I understand you can be going about things, and are bound to "find" stuff inadvertently. I understand the pain.
One thing that resonated with me is "Be the Duck" When you see a duck, on the surface it looks calm, peaceful and upbeat... under the water it can be freaking out and thrashing about, but you dont see it.
We had to set up a schedule, especially with the kids. GAL. If your with the kids, get them out of the house. Picnic, park, playground... get out and have fun. Give her space. If she's got the kids, get out... Gym, bike etc... UK.. Hmm... Pub?
Your now "Busy"... ALL THE TIME. Make plans... It's hard. Think like a single guy that's NOT on the prowl. New hobbies, activities.. you need to be a better you. Do stuff you've always wanted to do.
I find listening to Les Brown on youtube helpful. It's only temporary.
Thanks CD. I must hunt out Les Brown. I also like the duck analogy.
Was just writing on another thread about wedding rings. When this happened, W removed rings but I said I would keep mine on. Stupidly in an act of tit for tat I removed mine a few weeks later. I’ve not had it on since. Now I think that was a bad move. Should I reinstate it or will that just look ridiculous now?
I've struggled with this too. In my mind there is no other legit reason other than Adultery to divorce. Religious and all. I still consider myself married. I reacted to this by moving my ring to the other hand. If she does finally does admit that she has slept with someone, it comes off for me. She has broken the trust that the ring symbolizes. She has broken our covenant. I don’t believe in divorce, but its not up to me. I think this is a very deep personal choice. Your choice.
Maybe this helps?
I’m not religious but I also do not believe in divorce. I am a man of integrity and a wholesome family man. I took a vow and I intend to stick by it. I refuse to be party to the destruction of our family unit. I build and I fix. W said yesterday that I should divorce her. I will not. Adultery would also be my limit. I always said that. She has denied so far. I think I will reinstate the ring. This way I am being true to myself and my beliefs rather than stopping down to the W level. I will rise above and be the better person.
Thanks cdn.
Things have been calmer for a day or so. But this is mostly because we hardly saw each other it spoke. The communications are starting to break down. I was referring back to earlier days after BD but before DB. She seemed warmer and more engaged then. Laughing at my jokes and messages, checking I was ok etc. Things have definitely slid backwards in that regard. Are there any circumstances where instigating conversations and trying to get her to warm up are acceptable even though this goes against all DB principles?
I struggle to with this but it does seem like detaching, even no contact, Gal etc are the only things that will give your W he space to realise what she stands to lose.
I’m so freaked out right now because my w’s Actions of late can only lead me to have to try accept she is serious - she moved out on Saturday and took a whole load of stuff with her and the D has been filed.
This is so tough, I honestly think it’s harder than when I lost my first wife- this time I get anguish, hurt as well as the grief.
Hang in there UK
W cranking up pressure now with time with kids. Booking up her schrdule ‘one Week on, one week off’. I’m not comfortable with this. She also told the children about the situation while I was not there. It’s getting nasty as I knew it would. I do not want to agree or participate in a new pattern for the children. I want to keep things normal as possible. What do I do? I think I have no choice but to contact my lawyer.
It’s getting nasty as I knew it would. I do not want to agree or participate in a new pattern for the children. I want to keep things normal as possible. What do I do? I think I have no choice but to contact my lawyer.
Contacting your L would be fine, its always advisable to understand the law and your options. Unfortunately at some point a new pattern with the kids schedule will happen, that's beyond your control. You cant force W to stay in the M. Its a horrible feeling knowing basically half the time you had with your kids is being taken away from you, with little you can do to stop it. The alternative is going for more/full custody but in many situations that hurts the kids also. They need both parents in their life even if its a split time.
1 week on/1 week off tends to be a common schedule that happens, there are other time splits also and you will have to talk with her and both of you agree to one or a court will for you. A good sign is shes not trying to force you into being the weekend dad, many assume they are more qualified to care for the kids and since your the dad you aren't, don't accept that crap.
Now I can understand reading the above probably sets you in a panic and I know the emotions you are experiencing. We read a bunch in DB that gives us hope things will work but, we tend to gloss over the reality of the situation. She is moving toward divorce and you have to accept that is a very likely possibility. I just wanted to tell you things are going to work out either way. Life will be drastically different, things may not be how you wanted or expected them, but a new normal will emerge at some point.
Yes contact your lawyer. But you have to come to grips with the fact that she gets a say in all this, even when you don't agree. Ask yourself why are you bucking against it? Is it for the kids or is it for you? A new normal is coming, you being agreeable to that new normal is better for the kids than bickering about it.
This stuff is not easy. We all get that. But you have to accept that your old MR is dead and buried.
Always consult your lawyer, but understand what you can and cannot control.
Thanks a Steve. I just think it is her general tone and demeanour towards me. Anyone would think that I slept with her mother and her sister at the same time. More likely she has / is the one doing the sleeping and she is the one calling all the shots. I just want her to go away, have her fancy life and leave me and the kids alone. We are just fine, always have been and always will be. Total lack of respect and total selfishness. I’m feeling like I’m really going to have to get really tough now.
Ah, ok uk. Yep, definitely stand up for yourself. But do so lovingly.
I’m not feeling much love right now. I don’t know if I can do it.
Received this by email early this morning. I feel calm. Advice on next move please:
These are the grounds I will be submitting for divorce tomorrow. Should you have any objections please let me know by lunchtime today as the papers will be drawn up this afternoon.
Thanks
Controlling behaviour – I feel that the poor actions towards each other is due to a power struggle within the relationship and therefore even the smallest of tasks such as laundry, cooking and shopping become a battle and results in arguments
Lack of respect – We are unable to communicate in a respectful manner, often talking to each other with little to no respect for each other and often in front of other friends and family members, which causes upset and embarrassment
Lack of affection – Our marriage is run like a business partnership and not like a loving marriage. More time is spent organising, planning and discussing work or the future than any affection, love or kindness which results in loneliness
I have fallen out of love with my spouse and have not shared the marital bed since March. I have also asked for a separation back in March and have been trying to amicably work towards the split, taking into consideration the children and each other’s feelings
There is a lack of sympathy towards my illnesses which at times is frustrating and upsetting when all I need is support
I had asked for a legal separation but was asked by my spouse to apply for a full divorce and the grounds be provided to him prior to submitting to the courts (Which has been done)
Consult with your lawyer.
I skimmed your thread. What are your top three goals?
Recommend lovingly thanking her for the advance notice of the filing. I do not think she needed to do that so try to be positive. A good 180 perhaps. Then recommend saying you will respond after consulting your attorney. My 2 cents.
Thank Black8. I initially went back and asked for more time to consider. I think I have no choice now but to appoint lawyer. Urrrggh.
Hi Ready. Thanks for reading my sitch. If you had asked me this question a month ago I would have said, get MC, save M, save family. Today I think it is reinstate normal communications, protect my and kids interests and make this process as painless as possible.
I just seem to annoy W so much, even without doing anything. So much deep rooted anger.
Sorry uk82, I know the news probably came as a bit of a shock even if you expected it. Feeling calm is a normal reaction, one of the stages of grief is shock and gives us time to process things and not become overwhelmed. We tend to cycle through these stages many times.
Sending you good thoughts today, hope you are doing well and finding something to bring joy in your life.
Thanks for the continued support Fogg. Feeling better today. Relaxed. I deserve better than this. W is driven by anger. I realise and accept that I have done nothing to deserve this magnitude of vitriol and disrespect. This is her problem. And I accept that I cannot influence this outcome. Protection and look out for the kids at the moment. I am going to decorate D bedroom this weekend so that she had a nice new room, calm, organised, before they go back to school in a few weeks. And S can get him room back. Calmness. Peace. That is what I am going to offer them. And in between I’m going out with some pals and visiting family.
An update. The nastiness is increasing and I have lost my cool a few times. W ignoring me and speaking to others as if I’m not there. “I love the house but I need a new partner”. Booking up her social schedule so I cannot go out unless I get babysitters. Changing her plans on purpose. “Go f*** yourself” when a parenting plan was mentioned and I said I didn’t want to be the one doing it as I was against this whole thing. Then this morning found our wedding photos etc in the skip with the building waste. How can someone be so evil and hurtful to their spouse and the father of their children? Spoke with a L and basically said it’s going to take ages, be very acrimonious and expensive. I wonder what joys she has in store for me this evening? I think I’m through.
All I can say is to stay above the fray. And limit all communication and contact. She knows how to push your buttons, and is doing so.
Water.....off a duck's back........
Thanks Steve. Trying, trying I really am. Her behaviour is helping me detach. It is despicable. I think she wants me to hate her.
Hi UK82,
remember this: when you react emotionally and let her piss you off, she knows she still has control over you. Take back your power and be who you want to be, not who she wants you to be.
Thanks ovrrnbw. I appreciate that, I’m trying that and I’m getting better at it. I’ve been doing some internal checking and exploring my feelings. I think I’m not emotionally up to speed yet. Why? Because W has not allowed me the opportunity to understand or heal. The differing reasons, the hate, the deliberate antagonising, mind games. I’m finding it hard as I’ve done nothing wrong essentially. I believe that she too is still emotionally tied but hers is expressed in negative emotions, trying to inflict pain, suffering and ‘winning’ at all costs to get one over on me.
When she brought up D again, I was calmly explaining some of the processes and facts and she was so irate, calling me a know it all and high and mighty. This pent up anger is very frightening.
I think she wants me to hate her.
Sounds like she's still looking for excuses to help make her guilt go away to make it easier on herself to justify her decisions... which means she isn't 100% sure she's doing the right thing. Every single time you lose your cool it justifies her decisions.
Therefore you MUST stay very calm and cool. You may need to be ultra-disciplined with self-control beyond anything you knew possible to be able to do it. Whatever happens, that better self-control will do you good in the future.
Visit your Dr asap and see if they suggest anti-anxiety pills. If so then have one before you know you will see W.
Get new clothes that flatter you, smart new shoes, new aftershave and spend on a great hair-cut by the best person you can find. Look smart and your best whenever you see W. It will help your self-confidence. You will feel better and W will notice a positive change.
Thanks David. I’m keeping up with your sitch. So today, W turn to get kids ready for summer camp. They needed to be there by 8am. I got up, got ready for work and she was still asleep on the sofa. Clearly going to be very late. I just left her tonit where as before I might have woken her and even helped with the kids. No contact all day which seems the norm now. Got home later to collect kids and take them to the park. W been out shopping at Victoria Sectet, leaving the bag in the kitchen for me to see. So what. Got back, W offers to help with preparing kids dinner. No thank you. I play with kids, W frantically messaging on her phone. Kids go to bed. I go into our old matrimonial bedroom to finish decorating for my D and W is in the bed asleep at 845pm. Very odd. She awoke and began to try and start a fight, I need to communicate better blah blah. I almost bit, but just walked off.
With the upcoming funeral I have been forced to tell a few more of my extended family about the situation as W will not be attending. Also heard W had deleted all my family from FB. Perhaps me too. Who knows? Who cares? Keep detaching. Began looking at some houses today in readiness for the impending house sale. Found a lovely place in a very nice street which my kids would love. Booked a camping trip for the kids and I before they go back to school. Organised a drinks night with an old friend. Enquiries about drum lessons, something I’ve always wanted to do.
Hi UK,
Those sound like healthy goals that you can control. From reading your posts, you are doing very well. Detaching is powerful stuff. Letting others own their anger and not letting it affect you is very "manly". I can let others be angry, IE my lady, or my kids, and still be there for them to express this anger.
Sounds like she's still looking for excuses to help make her guilt go away to make it easier on herself to justify her decisions... which means she isn't 100% sure she's doing the right thing. Every single time you lose your cool it justifies her decisions.
Therefore you MUST stay very calm and cool. You may need to be ultra-disciplined with self-control beyond anything you knew possible to be able to do it. Whatever happens, that better self-control will do you good in the future.
Visit your Dr asap and see if they suggest anti-anxiety pills. If so then have one before you know you will see W.
Get new clothes that flatter you, smart new shoes, new aftershave and spend on a great hair-cut by the best person you can find. Look smart and your best whenever you see W. It will help your self-confidence. You will feel better and W will notice a positive change.
I agree.
I need to communicate better
These may not be words to start an argument. Communication is both speaking and listening. Validation and listening helps here. Bite your tongue and practice these two skills.
or
Boundaries, "it is hard for me to communicate when one or both of us is angry. I would prefer to communicate in a calm and effect manor."
I’ve not posted for a while so here is an update of where we are and what is happening:
- I’m trying to detach and GAL. W is making the detach part easy due to her continued distancing, disrespect and nastiness. I now do not instigate any conversations at all. If she asks me anything I answer as succinctly as possible. I think however I am being too cold. I am finding this paradox between detaching and being warm very difficult. Especially when every interaction with W is her either sniping, criticising, being nasty or disrespecting me. I actually don’t think I care anymore.
- W keeps insisting the house be sold as soon as possible, even if it means selling in its current unfinished state at a reduced cost. I will not be agreeing with this but I’ve ignored her comments so far and the fact that she had the house valued again. She wants it sold yesterday and us to be done ASAP. I am half expecting to come home one evening to see a For Sale sign outside which would be embarrassing for many reasons, not least that I would need to call the agent and tell them to take it down.
- W is getting more flagrant with her actions and comments regarding her new life. When the kids were asking where she had been all weekend, she replied ‘Partying with my friends’. She is acting like a teenager. Also I overheard her again telling the kids ‘when we move and we have two houses’. I’m also pretty sure now she is actively dating / sleeping with OM or OM plural.
- W tried to throw more pictures away, namely family portraits and a wedding photograph which included my recently deceased grandmother. Apparently my children asked her if they could have the pictures in their bedroom which is where they now reside but my S7 told me ‘mummy was going to throw them away daddy’. I’m glad it didn’t happen because I would have snapped at that.
- We recently purchased a new family car, just after BD which was a 180 for me because historically I have managed all our financial affairs and have been extrmely cautious and not impulsive at all. This was before I even knew about DB. W has insisted this is ‘her’ car ever since although it is clearly the family vehicle. Recently W took to using the new car when she was alone, leaving the old car for the kids and I. I suggested that the new car should be used for whoever had the children and whoever was alone should have the old car. W ‘kind of understood what I was asking’ but has then since decided to ignore this and took the new car for the whole weekend on her own and left the children and I with the old car. I have not said anything yet but I will be reminding her of what we agreed and what is best for the kids and will wait for her to completely ignore my request again for her own selfish reasons.
- W is a keyboard warrior I have noticed. When we are face to face she does not want to say too much to me about selling the house, rental property or splitting the business. However, when she is at work, wow, watch her go. Bombardment is an understatement. I tend to ignore these emails. But she is particularly interested in getting the money from the business very quickly. My accountant cannot believe how much she is hassling him.
- The separation is in full swing now with W setting herself up with her own room now. I managed to hold onto the master bedroom. She then told me she would not be cooking meals for me now, which I expected so in turn I am no longer doing her laundry. It seems incredibly petty seeing as we are in the same house, but so be it. I’m a better cook that her anyway.
- Had a great weekend with the kids. Took them to see family, the park, the school fete to see their friends. W used to make them pancakes for breakfast st the weekend while I tended the garden. So I decided to make them pancakes even though I’d never done it before. Kids loved them, said they are nicer than mummy’s ones and err very impressed that I could flip them in the pan as mummy cannot do that. Ha
- Have booked up several house viewings this coming weekend in case I cannot afford to buy W out of the house. Will be good to look and feel what my new life will be like. Keeping all my options open right now.
- W is going to visit her auntie this coming weekend. This is interesting for a couple of reasons. She has never visited this auntie before in the 12 years we have been together. Secondly this auntie had a mental breakdown / depression a few years ago and left her husband, was going to divorce him, blaming all her unhappiness on him etc. She got medical help and they R and got the family back together. W family think she is going through a similar thing and are very worried about her. I believe this visit will be centred around the auntie talking with W and explaining her situation and how she felt etc. I cannot see this doing any good and am planning accordingly. Carrying on with my own plan and my new life.
- Attended my grandmothers funeral alone yesterday but wore my ring to try to stop too many awkward questions. It worked mostly but a few more extended family now know the situation. My close family now hate W which is what Wcwants I think judging by the fact that she has deliberately alienated herself from all my relatives. I, on the other hand, have been polite and courteous to W family at all times and have no problem seeing or speaking with them.
Any insight or advice on any of the above welcome as always!
Hold your head high my man.
MLK said "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."
I think I can relate to the tit for tat part, as we have the same thing going on in our house. REMEMBER, its temporary. This wont be like this forever. Continue to be you. Role model for your kids.