Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: Jlh Not sure DB is working? AnotherStander help! - 07/25/18 11:58 PM
My last post thread was over 100 so I started a new one if that's alright.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2785958#Post2785958

So all of July H was becoming more open and friendlier, even standing at the steps watching a few minutes of TV and commenting on it and starting conversations. I got a job and I didn't tell him at first since I was DBing. Its not huge pay but its tutoring and I love it. After I told him I got a job and how I love it, the next day he told me that he was going to start the paperwork for D. He just wanted to let me know so I wasn't shocked. I called him that night and kind of let him have it and cried. I know it's not the DB thing to do but I told him that I loved him, this isn't my H, etc. I know it wasn't the best thing to say to him but he just kept saying he was sorry. He says he's hoping that we can be friends and laugh and talk again. I had mentioned that I miss laughing and talking with him. I asked how that's possible after all of this. He also apologized for his mixed signals saying that hes just trying to do whats right in a bad situation that he caused. He says that he is a bad husband and probably a bad father.

Our mutual friend is worried for us both and called him this morning asking what is going on. He told her that he doesn't like feeling like he needs to leave the house and wishes he didn't. He told her some complaints like "I don't get him." "We never did anything over the weekend" "I don't like his mom" etc. He also told her that he thought at first maybe he was having a midlife crisis but realizes that he is just unhappy. She said he did not sound like my H whom ever all know and love at all and he sounds like a zombie.

She asked him about if he ever told me this stuff and he said no. She said that she knows I'm going to therapy and if he had ever thought about it. He told her that he agreed to go the one time I mentioned it was for me.

Later when he picked up our son for the night, I saw that I took a bunch of our photos down from the walls and he had another sad look. As they were leaving, I mentioned the therapy session I have tomorrow and asked if he'd still want to go with me like we talked about and he just had a blank face and looked upset. He left pretty quick. I know I freaked him out. I screwed everything up for DB.

Later he texted me and said hes not going with me to the session because he feels pressured to go and he feels it would give me false hope. I told him that I wasn't trying to trick him or anything I just figured that him being there telling me about leaving could help me process it better if my therapist was there to help me see something I'm not.

I basically then told him what I wanted to tell him at the session about how I pushed him aside for our son when he was born and it hurt him and I apologize and I wish we could have communicated our concerns more. Also how he was always kind to my mom and family but I was a little bratty with his mom and it hurt him as well and I understand his upset now.

I mentioned that I respect his wishes to separate and that I just miss laughing and talking with him and then hugs and how he was also pretty fun in bed.

I know I screwed up the DB, but he gets so defensive about therapy and talking about feelings. I just don't understand how he is apparently upset that he feels like he has to leave us and says that he wants us to laugh and talk again and be friends again like we were. I just don't get it, can someone help me understand this? Is this still part of his midlife/grief issues from his passed on brother and father and stress? How can a person leave and then say they basically hate the feeling and then wants to be friendly and happy and talk and laugh again, and also be upset when he sees that I took down some more pictures.
First, your thread title is not correct. Because you are right you haven't been DBing. I see nothing in your post that is anywhere close to detachment, GAL, and 180ing. I see impulse, I see emotion. Pretty much the opposite of detachment, GAL, and 180s.

Second, you are trying to make sense of the senseless. There are no explanations for why a person go back on their vows, vows they took for a lifetime, and breaks the hearts of not only the one they pledged their love to, but so many others that are on the periphery of that relationship.

MLCs are no excuse. Many men go through MLCs and do not leave their wife and kids. Losing a father and a brother are no excuse. Many have lost parents and siblings and not left their wife and kids.

Jlh, your husband told you something very important. He said he "felt pressure". WASs recoil from pressure. They flee from pursuit. Especially when they catch themselves have a weak moment.

For instance, your husband sees that pictures have been taken down. It hurts him. He takes a step TOWARDS the MR as result. But then you invite him to therapy. PRESSURE. He takes 3 steps back from the MR.

The classic mistake the DBing LBS makes is to take a positive, and use it as an excuse to pressure and pursue. DBing requires patience and consistency. The worst thing you can do is get impatient and drop the consistency. Or to see a positive and think pursuit and/or pressure can suddenly work. CONSISTENCY.

You tell him you got a job. He tells you that he is moving forward with the paperwork for the D. You let it run off your back like water off a duck. DETACHMENT. He comes to pick up your son for the night. You see him sad about pictures coming down. More water off the duck. Instead of mentioning therapy you are dressed to the nines. You are wearing perfume. Your make-up is done. If he asks you are going out. GAL!! He texts you with information. Not a question! YOu don't respond. 180! He texts you with a question. You answer in as few words as it takes. Even if it is just yes or no. 180!!

Detach. GAL. 180. If you aren't doing that then you aren't DBing. It isn't that DB isn't working, it is jlh isn't DBing.
Posted By: Jlh Re: Not sure DB is working? AnotherStander help! - 07/26/18 01:50 AM
You're right Steve85, I really screwed up. I was doing so well for a while detaching and taking care of me and he started to open up an bit, I got cocky and emotional thinking, "this is it! He's coming back slowly!" and I lost my skills I was learning with DB.

Thank you for helping me see what I did wrong, I've felt like I've been going nuts the last few days when while I was detaching and doing well. I just can't help feeling bad for his sad face, I'm a sucker and need to focus and let it roll off my back. HE did this to us, HE's the one acting senseless. I can only take care of me and our boy during this crazy time.
jlh, we've all been there. We get a slightly positive response and we are ready to swoop in with the pursuit and pressure.

But you've got this. He will either come around. Or he won't. But you will be okay either way!
Posted By: Jlh Re: Not sure DB is working? AnotherStander help! - 07/27/18 02:14 PM
I know how to GAL because I've been working on me; I got a job, passed a few certifications for the job, etc. I'm just not sure on the 180 and distance. The distance is hard for me because we see each other often because of our son and I never know how to act.

The 180 is just plain confusing, does that mean since I've been stepping on eggshells around him for fear of scaring him off, I just act casual and ignore his puppy faces and mixed signals and stop being so friendly and accommodating to him? It's seems like when I kind of just act like hes a neighbor coming by and focus on my while hes here he starts to get curious but then I always screw it up but caving and seeing his smiles and then start to focus on him again.

I don't want to be mean or rude, but I have a hard time with just keeping conversations casual and not saying much to him when hes at the house.
I don't want to be mean or rude, but I have a hard time with just keeping conversations casual and not saying much to him when hes at the house.
Jlh- Nothing comes easy the first time around. You have to be mindful of the situation and then practice. Fake it till you make it as they say here. Over time you will realize certain situations and triggers that will get you thinking and it will become more habit over time. Just try to keep all communications brief and firm and friendly - just continue to be upbeat! good luck on your journey!
LoneWlf nailed it. My only add is to revisit the detachment thread often. If your detachment is mean or rude then you are doing it wrong.
Posted By: Jlh Re: Not sure DB is working? AnotherStander help! - 07/27/18 05:03 PM
Oh ok, thank you both so much! I try to just smile and say ok when he does things like asking to take a box from the house (not sure why he asks unless its to get a rise out of me) but I end up being sad. I'm trying to work more on being casual about it instead of getting teary eyed in front of him.

Oh and when he calls to say goodnight to our son, we always end up chatting a little about various things before we hang up so I'm not going to be doing that anymore for a long time.
Fake it until you can make it Jlh. It helps, none of us can master DB and for a lot of us it takes months post BD, there is no short cut. Initially when I was riling up but did not want to respond I started off by biting my tongue and responded with bare minimum words. At least it wont make matters worse IMO. This is the hardest thing for most of us in our lives, but we have decided to save the MR to our best abilities, if not at least save ourselves and improve who we are, so this is all a choice. It takes strength and patience. Good luck - Arshi
Originally Posted by Jlh
Oh ok, thank you both so much! I try to just smile and say ok when he does things like asking to take a box from the house (not sure why he asks unless its to get a rise out of me) but I end up being sad. I'm trying to work more on being casual about it instead of getting teary eyed in front of him.

Oh and when he calls to say goodnight to our son, we always end up chatting a little about various things before we hang up so I'm not going to be doing that anymore for a long time.

Good idea and ending the excessive chatting. My priest reminded me that you don't have much to chat about until they are ready to work on it.

They don't ever miss you if they still get the little fix they want, when they want it and you keep giving it to them.
Posted By: Jlh Re: Not sure DB is working? AnotherStander help! - 07/31/18 02:22 PM
Guess what guys! I'm proud of me! I have been super strong and when he calls to say goodnight to our son I take the phone back to hang up and I'm polite but just say, "well have a good night." without the added little conversations we used to have. He seemed a little taken back by my being quick to hang up. This has been happening for a few nights now and he's been bringing up the silliest things to talk about like how he never realized that my cell phone number is from another state. Well yeah, because I lived there before I moved to his state to be with him...lol! I just said politely, "Oh really?" and didn't get into the conversation. He cannot keep doing this cake eating where he leaves yet expects to talk to both of us at night like hes just a dad/husband on a business trip calling to say goodnight to his family.

Another night he was asking about my new job and I just said, "Oh I love it!" and then wished him goodnight to hang up. Things like that. He seems a little confused by my getting off of the phone so quickly and I actually feel tough for not caving and talking for another 20 minutes with him about random little things. He ever brought up a conversation on a show he knows I'd like coming out that we would have watched together, and I just casually said, "Oh, well I'll have to watch that sometime." and then wished him goodnight again.

It's like when he calls he's pushing to find random little things to talk about after we discuss our son or any house details but I pull back and casually end the call. I thought it would hurt a lot more, but it actually feels good and (maybe in a strange way) I sort of like him trying to pursue again (if that's what he's doing.) I haven't seen him in person for a few days but I plan on keeping myself chipper and casual and if I need to fake a big smile if he asks something I don't like, such as asking to take another box from the house.

I actually have been working on getting my finances in order like paypal for my etsy shop, looking into accountants for my contracting job, etc. It feels good to have control like I did when I was younger before I turned into a stay at home wife, got lazy and lost myself. I can do this!
Well I'm flattered that you called me out specifically, but there are a lot of great people here with awesome advice so don't sell anyone short smile


Originally Posted by Jlh
So all of July H was becoming more open and friendlier, even standing at the steps watching a few minutes of TV and commenting on it and starting conversations.


OK, so these are what Michele calls "baby steps" and it's exactly what you hope to see when DB'ing. But a lot of people have your same reaction to baby steps- they think it signals a turnaround and they break into full blown pursuit. And what happens is exactly what you experienced- they get a big ol' slap of reality upside the head. A key component of DB'ing is PATIENCE. You can't rush it. The WAS is on a long journey and nothing you do will speed them along, but there's a lot you can do to slow them down and pursuit is at the top of the list.

So where do you go from here- you pick yourself up, you learn from your mistakes and you keep moving forward. The next time you decide an R talk is in order then STOP and REMEMBER what happened this time. It's the same thing that will happen every time you push for an R talk.

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I called him that night and kind of let him have it and cried. I know it's not the DB thing to do but I told him that I loved him, this isn't my H, etc. I know it wasn't the best thing to say to him but he just kept saying he was sorry. He says he's hoping that we can be friends and laugh and talk again. I had mentioned that I miss laughing and talking with him.


That just all looks very desperate and needy to him, and that is not attractive at all. You've got to detach and become strong and independent. THEN he might wonder what he's missing.

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Our mutual friend is worried for us both and called him this morning asking what is going on.


No no noooooo. This has got to stop. You do NOT want your mutual friends, family or ANYONE contacting him on your behalf because again, that just makes you look desperate and pathetic. It will look to him like you are "rallying the troops against him" which will just push him farther away.

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Later when he picked up our son for the night, I saw that I took a bunch of our photos down from the walls and he had another sad look.


That sounds like a lot of mind-reading. Why did you take the pictures down, for you or to get a reaction out of him? One is detaching, the other is desperation.

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As they were leaving, I mentioned the therapy session I have tomorrow and asked if he'd still want to go with me like we talked about and he just had a blank face and looked upset.


No you don't want him to go and you need to quit inviting him because that is pressure and pursuit.

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I screwed everything up for DB.


Well you did, but it's OK, you can start over again with your DB'ing. You've set yourself back to square one and hopefully you see and will remember that it backfired in a huge way and maybe that will help give focus to your DB'ing now.

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I just don't understand how he is apparently upset that he feels like he has to leave us and says that he wants us to laugh and talk again and be friends again like we were. I just don't get it, can someone help me understand this?


Yes it's classic cake-eating. He wants a new single lifestyle but he wants to cling to part of his old married life as well.

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It's like when he calls he's pushing to find random little things to talk about after we discuss our son or any house details but I pull back and casually end the call.


Yes that's usually how it works, if you can effectively detach then the WAS will usually start temp-checking. It doesn't mean they've changed their mind (he hasn't), just keep doing what you're doing.

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I actually have been working on getting my finances in order like paypal for my etsy shop, looking into accountants for my contracting job, etc. It feels good to have control like I did when I was younger before I turned into a stay at home wife, got lazy and lost myself. I can do this!


Good, these are the kinds of things you need to focus on!
He is testing you. The tests will get harder or more frequent.

Make sure you work on your detachment so that when he gets more testy that you aren't totally floored by the craziness you hear.
Posted By: Jlh Re: Not sure DB is working? AnotherStander help! - 07/31/18 11:56 PM
Ovrrnbw, it can get worse as I continue with DB?? I just started to get tough and serious with the not caving and chatting at night. What else could he do or say to make it worse? shocked

Anotherstander, don't worry, I asked our mutual friends who wanted to reach out to him as well to please don't if they think they are helping. I'm also using my therapy time to not worry about him anymore and focus on me and how I'm doing, the things I'm planning for myself regarding work and school, etc. In the beginning I was totally defensive when you and a few others gave me advice and I think I didn't want to hear it thinking that detaching wouldn't work. I see how I was wrong in handling a lot of things now and it makes much more sense. I did take some more pics down, but honestly it was for me this time and not to send a message. I put up my son's artwork, pics or me and him together, my family, etc and it's nice to see his little smiling face on the walls more.

I've love my job and I've been focusing on that as well as looking into care and support for my son with the local autism support groups who offer babysitters, support groups, helpers for me if I need it occasionally. I have a lawyer I spoke with that I can talk to as well and he has been giving great advice. I'm not on cloud nine but I feel way less helpless and stupid than I did a few months ago. I'm realizing I'll be okay no matter what happens with this mess.
^^^That is an AWESOME post, keep this up!!! Good DB'ing smile ^^^
Posted By: Jlh Re: Not sure DB is working? AnotherStander help! - 08/02/18 03:11 AM
Okay today was a tough day but I stood strong. I've noticed all this past week that he was bringing up topics other than our son and I didn't chat about them, only things regarding our son. But today and yesterday he's been a little quieter than usual. I'm trying so hard no to overthink it and worry about myself but part of me wonders about the lack of conversation on my part and if he's possibly mad about it or confused. I know I shouldn't worry but its still hard and I called some friends to talk, not about him, but other topics to distract me.

I feel weak like I should be a pro at DBing but I'm also curious to see his reactions to me taking care of me first and foremost now. Augh, this stuff can mess with your mind.
Posted By: Jlh Re: Not sure DB is working? AnotherStander help! - 08/04/18 08:05 PM
I've noticed the strangest thing. For a little while since I've really started distancing, H was using the silliest conversation starters to get me talking, and then he got quiet and a little confused looking when I got better at it and ended calls without caving and chatting with him. Now he's doing the same thing I am back at me. It's like he mirrors me with my own ways of distancing but at the same time looks bummed. I don't know if this is a typical reaction but it's kind of amusing. It's like he's acting like a teen or toddler. But at the same time he tells me that HE can call ME so our son can say goodnight instead of me calling him. (confused face here) LOL!

On another note, my therapist says the ups and downs are normal but they still hurt. Yes they do. Today is a low day but I've been busy distracting myself by watching a movie, writing a short story, working, cleaning, etc.
Posted By: Jlh Re: Not sure DB is working? AnotherStander help! - 08/05/18 10:05 PM
Question regarding H packing and leaving his things. He takes his things verrrrrry slowly, one box at a time maybe once a month if that. Would part of my 180 and detaching be telling him to go ahead and take the rest of his things or is that a severe no-no right now? He claims it kills him to see me sad every time he leaves the house so am I a fool in thinking that me detaching could include telling him to go ahead and take another box or else just smile and nod if he asks to take another box? He ASKS me if its okay to go upstairs to take his things, btw, he doesn't tell me or just do it.
Jlh,

That sounds like torture. I can't imagine seeing that day after day. I just came home to a cleaned-out house with all traces of my W gone. That s#@ks but I would take it any day over the one box at a time pain. Tell him to get it all and do it as soon as he can. And don't help him at all. I would try to get out of the house while he is doing it.
Hi JLH,

your behavior is affecting him, and his is changing. He is testing still.

When he claims that it kills him to see you sad you can just tell him it's fine to get his stuff. He's hanging on by dragging it out. By you not correcting him and saying your fine, his assumption of your sadness is confirmed.

Maybe you say "yea I'm a little sad, but what can I do?" and shrug your shoulders. Everyone wants to be wanted. They want people to need and miss and cry for them - even the people they are betraying.

Why are we humans so messed up...
Posted By: Jlh Re: Not sure DB is working? AnotherStander help! - 08/05/18 10:39 PM
I'm so sorry, Davide. frown

Thank you for the reply, I've been distancing myself more and following the detaching properly finally, but I didn't know if telling his to just take the rest would be working against DBing. I'm not packing anything for him or moving his boxes, he can do it all himself, but I did know if just saying, "Can you go ahead and just take it all now instead of this slow moving, would be ruining my DB efforts.
Posted By: Jlh Re: Not sure DB is working? AnotherStander help! - 08/08/18 01:27 PM
This roller coaster ride is just AMAZING! (rolls eyes)

Monday night, son and I called H earlier than his normal call time to say goodnight to son since kiddo was super tired. H answered and sounded pleasant. When I returned the greeting, he shouted, "HI!" in a very excited tone toward me. I'm proud because I kept my cool and didn't get too eager thinking it was a magical sign that he's out of his tunnel. We discussed our son for a few minutes and then he spoke to son and we hung up afterward.

The next day he was quiet and thoughtful when he picked up our son for the evening. at drop off time he was just as quiet. Something seems off in him, like he's wistful, if that makes any sense but I don't comment on his looking down like I used to, I just stay friendly and keep it cool. It was a hard day yesterday I admit, due to being exhausted from summer vacation insanity and doing it all alone in the house regarding DIY and cleaning, etc.

I'm proud of how I'm standing my ground and being more firm. I noticed my shoulders don't slump as much in his presence and I don't feel so sad. I'm slowly getting tough like if he doesn't come back, I will be able to survive and be happy on my own with my son. My job is going well, I got my first paycheck, and used some of it to get groceries with my own hard earned money. It felt so good!
Posted By: Jlh Re: Not sure DB is working? AnotherStander help! - 08/11/18 02:39 PM
Help! I need wise words and a pat on the back today. I'm partially curious about this and I'm wondering if anyone had a word or two on it as well. Is it hurting the detachment if you just ask out of curiosity to the walkaway spouse what you did to make them hate you so much? I'm just honestly curious how they can just seem to turn of legit feelings while claiming they never loved, love but don't love, etc etc. They think they feel that way yet so many friends and family can see how the spouse really was all those years

I've noticed that since I detached more and properly, H barely looks at or talks to me, he even seems a little annoyed that I'm moving forward with a job and working on me. I had a tummy bug for a few days and he told me to call him if I needed anything but I told him not to worry and our son would be fine so he left in a huff. Granted I don't make much eye contact with him lately because the anger part of it is hitting me now. I feel like it's not fair that I have to be so calm and cool while he can make no sense and just run off to his apartment and hide from the world while I do the child raising and other responsibilities.

It's not fair and I hate it, but I'm being tough and moving forward, plus it feels good to be occupied with work and my hobbies. I guess this is one of the low days of the coaster ride but I hate this.
Do not ask things like that. It is absolutely pursuit, pressure and R talk all rolled into one. First of all, your H most likely does NOT actually hate you. It feels like it, I know. It's probably a mixture of anger and resentment towards you, anger towards himself, stress, confusion and frustration.

It isn't fair. None of this is fair. It's all totally unfair, in fact. Us LBS' have to let our WAS' sort themselves out. We have to do our best to actually let them do that, sort ourselves out in the interim and become the best us we can be, and essentially hope that the WAS realizes that maybe we're not so bad after all and maybe they do want to give reconciliation a shot. That's it in a nutshell.

Beyond that, we have to prepare ourselves for the outcome we don't want and be ready to live our lives without this person that we still love but who doesn't want us anymore.
You say you are angry that he is leaving you with the child rearing, but when he offered his help when you were sick, you rejected his help. So you are actively discouraging him from stepping up and taking care of things.

Remember, detachment doesn't mean cold or distant. It means your emotions are not tied to what he does or doesn't do.

And I agree with hongaku. Asking him why he hates you is definitely pursuit.
Posted By: Jlh Re: Not sure DB is working? AnotherStander help! - 08/11/18 10:19 PM
Thanks for your words, Hongaku. This week was a bad one with my fussy son and I steered my anger toward H in my mind while I took care of things around the house as well. Some days are easier than others. I don't really want to ask him what he hates about me, be I get curious sometimes. Any little thing spooks him and the last thing I want to do is freak him out again. What you said about his own issues and frustrations makes total sense. I just need to take a breath and remember that sometimes.

I'm hoping for the best while preparing for the possible worst. The good part of all of this is, I am finding myself again and my old interests.
____

Rose888, you're right. I didn't think of it that way until I read your words. I've been angry with him with a mindset of "Well you let ME so I'll show you that I don't need you." It never occurred to me that maybe that was why he left in a huff that evening. Maybe I should calm down and stop that and let him help while I was ill. I'm going to thank him for his offer tonight when my son calls to say goodnight to me (hes at his dad's tonight.)
Posted By: Jlh Re: Not sure DB is working? AnotherStander help! - 08/17/18 03:00 AM
Well this week, H didn't have the zombie, glazed foggy eyed look. He even texted with me about something and typed an 'LOL'. I haven't seen one of those from him since before this mess started.

So I was casual about it all and kept my cool, not sucking into his looking a little clearer. I'm glad I did because today he was back to being foggy again. It's very odd though because it seems like the clearer H shows up a bit more lately and then bizarro H takes over a bit after he lets himself smile and have a little fun talking.
Posted By: Jlh Re: Not sure DB is working? AnotherStander help! - 08/22/18 09:42 PM
Me again, lol! So I'm doing better after you guys knocked me back into shape regarding detachment. I keep things friendly and accept his help when he offers with some things. We've been working together and actually talking to take care of our relic of a hot water heater which is about to die soon. He said he'd take care of it money-wise and I offered to call around for estimates and whatnot since he can't exactly do it during the day with his job. I used to be so scared to talk to strangers on the phone for business reasons but now I can do it! I shocked myself at how I've grown up and used the phone like a "big girl" regarding many issues.

But anyway, I didn't brag about that to him or anything, but he has thanked me numerous times and told me that he appreciated my calling around for him and that it helped him greatly.

Today he picked up my son and informed me about his eye insurance we're on and told me to go get myself some nice glasses and explained how the eye insurance covers a lot. I don't know where that came from since when it comes to my health, he's been casual, almost avoiding things like asking how I'm doing. I nicely thanked him for the info and then told him that I was going to be late for my outing so I had to get going after they left.

I have the confused "Shrek sneer" (if you know the movie and the character) when it comes to him lately. He still hasn't come for the rest of his things even though a few weeks ago in an argument I told him to just end the torture and come get them, he's laughing a bit more and even puts "lol" into texts which he is also doing more of. Its nothing huge and I don't chase him around, I still keep things casual and polite. I just am kind of surprised at how he's acting a little less foggy. He's still acting skittish but less cold and distant.

I don't know what the stages are to all of this midlife strange behavior but hopefully he's coming toward the light at the end of the tunnel? Until then, I'm working and taking care of me and my boy and looking into churches and some social programs for us both. (thumbs up)
Hi JLH, I wouldn’t worry about MLC stages, it doesn’t really help you. I have done it all, analyzed WH as mlc, depressed but the truth is it’s just us trying to make sense of this nonsense. If you are interested in MLC stages look up heart blessings posts. Anyway your path would still be to just focus on yourself and S and leave the rest to God
Posted By: Jlh Re: Not sure DB is working? AnotherStander help! - 08/28/18 09:17 PM
Hi arsh18, sorry it took so long to get back, it's been crazy lately with work and getting the kiddo ready for school again. Yeah, I was so focused on the stages but I gave up and have been more focused on my work now. Some positive stuff is I guess that when he calls to say goodnight to our boy he sounds less foggy, laughs more and wants to talk a bit, but the odd part is when he's over in person he is rather shy and skittish. I don't know what that's about but I just keep with what I'm doing in the house and don't push for him to come in the living room or anything like that. Whatever his deal is, he seems to be a little nicer and his eyes look more like his old self, but I'm not opening up and letting him cake eat or anything like I did before.

I'm just excited for Fall season when there is a ton more to do for me and my son and for the season outdoors when its cooler. (we both hate the heat, lol!)
Posted By: Jlh Re: Not sure DB is working? AnotherStander help! - 08/29/18 09:22 PM
I do not understand how someone can go from being friendlier for a week or two to telling me today that he wants me to list my bills and credit cards for him so he can work up alimony and child support paperwork. THEN when I try to ask about it, he tells me that he's trying to make things easy for me (he says this repeatedly) and gets a little defensive when I say, well this isn't really easy for anyone. I ask some more and he just says, we can talk about it later.

I do not get this at all. He claims to be set on filling out papers and such and then basically says that we can discuss things later. WTH, this is one weird ride.
Dear jlh,
I follow your sitch but I don't think I have commented yet.
I wish you and your family the best.
I can't comment on much, but I can respond in the total confusion you have as to how your spouse can be nice one moment and turn to their mood upside down and ignore you, yell at you, or just be mean for no reason. I don't know the technical term for it, but I can only say that this seems to be the norm. In my MR, if we are getting along for a few days it always seems that she "feels" she is getting too comfortable with "us". There are no R talks, no affection, etc. But you just see that we haven't fought in a long time, things have been smooth with the kids, and for the most part, there has been a new routine that everyone is falling into. She seems to just snap at the oddest times and turn cold or angry on a moments notice.

Is he trying to get a reaction out of you (positive or negative)?

Is he just trying to justify the decision within himself?

Who knows!!!

All you can do is make sure you are doing your 180's, GAL, always look and put forth your best (not fake!), validate, and be sure you think before you speak knowing sometimes it is best not to speak (fyi that last part is VERY hard for this guy!).
Good luck!!
Posted By: Jlh Re: Not sure DB is working? AnotherStander help! - 08/30/18 01:17 PM
Hi JustSad, I feel like I'm back to the drawing board, I keep getting caught up in it when he shows signs of being more open and less foggy and I get sucked in. He still has a ton of his stuff here so I'm going to tell him later today to get it out. He only took half his things and has plenty of time to get the rest and never does. It hurts to see it all still here so it has to go. I dont know if thats a 180 or DB or whatever but it just has to go.
Originally Posted by Jlh
Hi JustSad, I feel like I'm back to the drawing board, I keep getting caught up in it when he shows signs of being more open and less foggy and I get sucked in. He still has a ton of his stuff here so I'm going to tell him later today to get it out. He only took half his things and has plenty of time to get the rest and never does. It hurts to see it all still here so it has to go. I dont know if thats a 180 or DB or whatever but it just has to go.


This is called getting temp checked. He sees you have started to pull back and so he acts in ways to see if he still has control. Once you show him he does, he quickly retreats.

Next time he starts to act warm and less foggy, DON'T CHANGE A THING.

I can remember in my sitch W sitting next to me crying about how she thought D was wrong, and she wish she didn't have a desire to leave and get a D etc. I sat. Listened. Validated. The next few days she was very affectionate and caring. If I had picked that up and ran with it, hugged her, consoled her, continued to apologize for my past behavior she would have felt she still had control and went back into her shell.

Do what works. 180 on what doesn't..
Posted By: Jlh Re: Not sure DB is working? AnotherStander help! - 08/30/18 03:23 PM
Steve, my therapist is not a help regarding this bizarro husband behavior. She pushes for divorce hard and keeps saying he is probably hiding something naughty or disturbing that he feels is shameful. I don't want to give up on my marriage, but she says its been four months and he's made up his mind and to let go of him. He's not himself to me, this is not my husband and I refuse to give up after four months.

He's done temp checking before regarding when he starts to come closer, he steps back and tells me about some form of D paperwork yet never follows through with it. He did that a few days ago as well after two weeks of being more open with me. This is the second or third time he's done this regarding saying he is working on paperwork and then never follows through.

He's more open and chatty on the phone like his old voice is more clear now rather than this fog voice (if that makes sense), yet in person at our sons drop off and pick up he is more reserved than he is on the phone. I just don't understand his behavior shifts so I don't engage it if I can help it. Why be able to be chattier on the phone yet in person act reserved and shy?

So basically when he acts clearer and less foggy on the phone keep on being casual and don't engage the conversation? Its like a huge terrible game of tag or tug of war. So just keep on working on me as he goes through whatever his issues are? He apparently doesn't even talk to his very best friend about this. His friend called to see how I was doing and we chatted for a bit and H doesn't talk about this with him and if they do talk a little bit he changes the subject on it. It just doesn't make sense.

I definitely know talking to him like hes a friend is not working right now, lol! That gets him running. Anything where I am friendly to him gets him running. If I'm a mystery, he opens up more.
Fire your therapist. You aren't under contract to them. If my therapist told me to murder my neighbor I'd get a new one. If a therapist tells you to do something that violates your morals and ethics then it's time for a new therapist.
Posted By: Jlh Re: Not sure DB is working? AnotherStander help! - 08/30/18 04:41 PM
Another thing Steve, I want to say my piece to H since he doesn't listen to me to talk so I want to write a letter to explain how I was also unhappy after our sons autism diagnosis, etc. I was in a bad place and depressed too. But nothing like what he's doing now with this weird fog. Is that persuing if I sent him a letter? My therapist says to write it but DONT send it.

I'm just so mentally drained from all of this. Its hard to stand but I'm trying. His talking happily one way and then running the next is just confusing and hard. I do know at least that he never took our sons autism diagnosis well either and we didn't talk that out with each other.
Posted By: Jlh Re: Not sure DB is working? AnotherStander help! - 09/04/18 05:55 PM
So yesterday and today H has been at his apartment sick with a nasty head cold. I hate when my guys are sick so I'm sitting on my hands not to check on him and ask how he's doing. I know it wont help things any. He asked me if it was okay to change from tonight to tomorrow night to take our son for the evening and I replied it was fine and I can move my plans. I didn't expect a text back but he replied that he was so sorry and hes worried about germs. I never texted back.

This distancing is a real bitch, excuse my language. I want to reach out so bad to see how he's doing but I'm distancing. I'm working on doing this better, it just [censored].
Posted By: Jlh Re: Question on midlife crisis and relatives - 09/08/18 04:29 PM
Question: Do the relatives of midlife crisis sufferers ever notice their changes the way the left behind spouse does? Or is that what the covert depression is, where it's all hidden except toward the spouse.
Posted By: why15 Re: Question on midlife crisis and relatives - 09/08/18 05:30 PM
Hi Jlh, I have started following you and just want you to know that you are doing the best you can in a difficult and crazy situation .. I will continue to follow along , and keep you in my prayers..
Posted By: why15 Re: Question on midlife crisis and relatives - 09/08/18 05:37 PM
Originally Posted by Jlh
Question: Do the relatives of midlife crisis sufferers ever notice their changes the way the left behind spouse does? Or is that what the covert depression is, where it's all hidden except toward the spouse.


I cant answer as to what "relatives" see.. I know my Hs family know my H and I are not divorced nor legally separated. they know I want to save our marriage and this has been going on for 3 .5 years .. they have opened their doors to OW, My H takes OW to visit them and are there for Hoildays, birthdays etc.. his family provide a bedroom for my H and OW to sleep in under their roof... and they all claim to be Christians.. I want them to love their brother ( my H ) and be there for him but embracing OW is going to far.. they as Christians are encouraging and promoting an open and public act of adultery .. his family have hurt me more than they will ever know..i do know that trying to talk to his relatives has done no good in my case..
Posted By: Jlh Re: Question on midlife crisis and relatives - 09/08/18 08:15 PM
Hi why15, thanks for your reply. smile 3.5 years?? How are you holding up?? Since I've finally understood how to "let go and let God, some days I am a mess and others are better. That's ridiculous that they are opening up to OW like that when you both are not divorced or legally separated. My mother-in-law helped my H get some clothes and a bed into his apartment for our son when H first left the house. She helps him with food since he has chosen to spend our money unwisely. I know we're not supposed to discuss this stuff with family so I've never bothered.

I haven't gotten along with the MiL in the past but I've been working on me and opening more to people and growing (I've been told I have a change on my attitude from some others which made me happy.) But I called her to have our son say happy birthday to her and she was thrilled and ended up talking to me for over an hour. Shes very loud and chatty so she did most of the talking. She threw in some snarky hints regarding "how I treated the family" and "you cant just turn on and off good attitude." I chose to ignore the comments. I know she doesn't believe me on the better attitude but I'm not out to convince her of anything.

Anyway, I was just asking about the possible relatives noticing a difference, because a good friend of ours has certainly noticed how he's all over the place in conversations about anything close to me or the marriage, or else shuts down immediately, my mom had spoken to him way in the beginning of this and noticed he didn't seem himself. Yet apparently his own mom doesn't seem to notice. I've been told that MLCers can mask this stuff so I wasn't sure if maybe that was it. I dunno, I can't change anyone but myself, this was all just curiosity really. I don't plan on calling MiL any time soon again unless there are any emergencies.
Posted By: Jlh Re: Steve help with a question please! - 09/09/18 02:14 PM
I don't know if anyone else has noticed this from a walkaway spouse but it seems to be a thing where if I do a step to go dark, H will do it after me and it's almost like an "I can do that too..."

An example is last weekend, I gave my son a huge hug and told him that I wouldn't be calling him that night and to give me a big hug goodnight before he left. Well I told H that I wouldn't be calling them all weekend like we normally do to say goodnight to our son when he is at either of our places. I see our son way more than H does and I know he'd be okay so I was going dark more for me. Well this weekend H has done the exact same thing but normally when he cant call he texts to let me know but I heard nothing. Our son hasn't asked about his dad not calling but I was just curious if this is one of those immature "teenage" snit fit kind of things I hear MLC spouses can do when they aren't in control.
Posted By: Jlh Re: Steve help with a question please! - 09/12/18 11:45 AM
So tired of waking up to the feeling of anxiety. I had to just make a face a few days ago when H told me that he didn't call to say goodnight to our son as he usually does because he "didn't want to bother him". What the heck is that? He's his son, hes certainly not going to bother him. Part of me wonders if he meant me but I'm trying not to think about it. Now that school is back in session for the kiddo I signed up for some volunteer work and a friend asked me to help her with her house painting. I accepted and it'll be good to get out and do stuff for me.

H is suddenly in a quiet, thoughtful almost sad looking state when he comes over now and I haven't asked what that's about, although he did actually come into the living room for once instead of hiding on the steps to wait for our son on his "dad days". I spoke quickly a week ago honestly and told him that I was letting him go so he could go be happy, and ever since then he's been off. It came out before I could think about it.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Steve help with a question please! - 09/12/18 12:36 PM
jlh, don't worry about it. Give him the time and space to work out his own stuff.

Personally, I am a big fan of the of "I am letting you go" discussion with WASs/WSs. I know that my saying that to my W had a pretty profound effect on her. She went from cold and distant to sad and worried. Especially since my actions after that SHOWED that what I had said was true. Once I went from pressure and pursuit to moving onward and upward, her thinking started to shift from wanting out to being worried about what she stood to lose.

So yes, if he believes you are moving on more than likely you will see some changes. 180s have an effect on the WAS. Just remain consistent.
Posted By: Jlh Re: Steve help with a question please! - 09/12/18 01:44 PM
Steve this is the hardest thing I have ever had to do. It feels like something shifted with him but I'm not pressing it from him or anything. He actually came into the living room yesterday rather than hiding by the stairs waiting for our son and there wasn't a strange look of fear when I mentioned talk of a back to school night where that the school is encouraging families to go to together. I'm GALing as much as I can right now and rereading Divorce Remedy and Divorce Busting, it's just so tough some days. Distracting and being out of the house definitely helps.
Posted By: Jlh Re: Steve help with a question please! - 09/17/18 12:25 AM
During our son's drop-off back to the house, I noticed that H doesn't look me in the eye. It's a bad weekend so I was feeling low. I'm fighting hard have patience and "let go" so I can take care of me. I do okay when I'm keeping busy or out of the house, but I can't get used to him not looking me in the eyes when we talk. It's almost like he's afraid of me. We we're quiet after making some conversation about our son but then it was a little awkward.

I hate this MLC stuff and wish it would hurry up and go away but I know it's a process he has to go through. Sometimes I want to ask him things but I know it will spook him so I keep the conversations casual and only about our son.

I know I'm bad at DBing but I've been good with not chasing him with questions. I did have a good cry after he left. I miss him so much. frown I told him I was letting him go to go be happy but he does not look happy at all, and I know I'm not, every since I started to move toward "letting go to let God" I feel empty and sad. I know it's for the best but I'm scared this will push him away. I know the books say to have faith in the process but it's hard sometimes.
Posted By: Jlh Re: Steve help with a question please! - 09/19/18 01:08 AM
So today I had a job interview for work during midday hours at the nearby elementary school. Later I had a back to school night at my son's school where I signed up to be a room mom as well as an at home volunteer for when the teacher needs help with projects. I'm also an art show volunteer.

H didn't want to go saying that he would just be chasing our son all over while I did the talking to teachers. I didn't push it and later made it known that it was a quiet classroom while talking to the teacher. He looked remorseful for missing out. I also watched his face fall, yet he looked intrigued, when I mentioned my job interview and school help. he never asked and I never offered any other info on it all.

He left looking like a beaten dog with his head down and it hit me that I'm happier than he is! I mean, I feel like a mess but I'm happier than he is. He can't say that I'm bringing him down because I'm bettering myself for me. I'm the one working on myself and being happy step by step.

It stinks that he needs to work his way out of his tunnel of hell but there's nothing I can do for him and I think I get it now. I can only take care of me and help myself grow. If he comes back and wants to join me again, that's another story but for now I realized that hes the one miserable and it seems to show more and more, like he can't hide it as much like he used too. That's why he can't or wont look at me and that's why he runs, because I'm getting my act together and growing. I wonder how badly it hurts midlife people to see their spouses growing and moving forward without them while they're stuck in their misery.

So there's my eyes opening. I'm sure tomorrow or the next day I'll feel blue and miss him, but I know now that its not me who was the misery in our home now that I'm growing more and more.
Posted By: Jlh Could really use some guidance now! - 09/19/18 02:11 PM
So like clockwork after he left the house with his tail between his legs last night, he sent me an email this morning talking about divorce papers and the whole email made no sense. Lots of "I'm sorry" and the whole thing just sounds like he doesn't want to do it yet he included the paperwork for me to look over before we go over anything final. He even mentioned how he didn't talk to me in person over all of this to spare emotions.

It's just insane, he never once talked to me about any of the paperwork and info regarding plans for our son and home and whatnot yet says he did it all to spare our emotions. I'm at a loss for words.

I replied back telling him that not once has he talked to me in person about any of this other to say he's done and run off quickly in April. I told him we need to communicate for our son because we will be still talking to each other as we raise him for many more years to come, he can't just run and hide and not talk to me. There is no communication at all from him, he just hangs his head in shame and hides yet on the phone he's chattier to me. I just have no words.
Posted By: Jlh Re: I found out some info on H's behavior! - 09/23/18 04:54 PM
Is it considered cake eating when your spouse leaves the house, yet chats it up happily over the phone to ask what me and our son did together for fun. I don't think I should keep him filled in on our fun times together since H left us and the house. I don't know if I should just tell him flat out that I want to keep conversations about our son strictly business or just do it and let him figure it out on his own.

Also he came over a few nights ago to talk after just emailing me paperwork and then not wanting to discuss it verbally or in person. He uses email and text to discuss this important stuff yet runs when I want to discuss it in person like an adult. I know it's not part of detaching but I asked him to come over to discuss this paperwork he has. He cried and was teary eyed the entire talk telling me how he looks at pictures and wishes we could be like the better times again. He says he left the house so quickly because the house only reminds him of how he hurt me so badly. He admitted that he has some porn addiction thing going on. He seems to be in a very bad place and needs some help. He says he's done grieving his brother who passed away last year at this time and hes not addicted to porn and he's fine. He also told me that he works and sleeps and that's about it. He tells me that he has no more feelings for me yet he's crying and wishing for things to be better again as he looks at pics of us he has at his place. He looks miserable, hair needs a cut, he needs to shave, etc. He told me that he has no OW and it's only him. The next day as he picked up and dropped off our son in the evening, he seemed lighter and smiled more, even stopping to play with the cat.

But yesterday when he called to say goodnight to our son, he was very grumpy with me when I asked him to come over to look at our son's broken headboard. It was like pulling teeth to get him to talk about it and he had any excuse to not come over. It was for his kid, not me.

I'm seeing a lawyer this week to go over the paperwork and see what it all entails. I have questions on moving forward as well without him.
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: I found out some info on H's behavior! - 09/23/18 08:21 PM
Yes, that's cake eating. Was it a necessary convo? No. Did you husband choose to break up the family? Yes. Should he feel the consequences of his choices? I guess that's up to you...

You don't have to tell him you're keeping things strictly business, but you can. I would just keep it business and let the actions speak but everyone has their own style.

So irritating that he is crying to you, wishing for the better times again. He knows he can make that happen if he wants to. Crocodile tears if you ask me. Did you validate his feelings about the house reminding him of pain? Bc I get that. Did you validate when he said he has no feelings for you? B/c arguing or getting offended isn't going to help your cause.

I'd not ask him to fix things for you. Just my opinion. I'd have a brother, father, friend's bf/H fix it.
Posted By: Jlh Re: I found out some info on H's behavior! - 09/23/18 09:54 PM
Thanks for the reply, ovrrnbw. I did validate his comments to me, I don't believe the no feelings part but I listened and told him I understood.

I'm having my step dad take a look at some things around the house that I can't fix on my own. Either that or my neighbor. I'm just growing weary of this and I have an appt. with a lawyer on Tuesday to go over the paperwork H had made up because quite a bit of it is completely confusing and not how he'd be thinking at all. I need to protect me and my son legally while this mess is going on.
Posted By: Jlh Re: I found out some info on H's behavior! - 09/26/18 12:50 PM
H emailed me a draft of his divorce agreement paperwork last week and I took it to my lawyer yesterday to review. A lot of it is not fair at all and I told him that. He was angry that I saw a lawyer saying that it wasn't meant to be looked at by a lawyer. He'd rather us keep it out of the courts. My lawyer says from H's description he sounds confused still about what he wants, I just dont know.

I am just tired. We have so much to discuss for this and he runs. He runs and hides saying we'll talk about it later, and when I push to talk about it now, he just hides. I don't know what he wants anymore. He's always putting on the waterworks. I came from another state and if we divorce I want to move back home with our son when I will have plenty of support as we have none up here but H wont sign on that he says.

If this is still part of a MLC, it is HORRIBLE and I would not wish this on anyone. We have pets that we need to discuss what will happen with them since I would like to get rid of the house if we divorce and H doesn't address it, he didn't even offer any ideas when I brought it up.

It's just nonstop teary eyes and sadness from him. I'm working my butt off here to raise our son, keep the house clean, cook, take care of pets, while he comes and goes as he pleases and doesn't have any responsibilities. I dont know what to do anymore.
Posted By: sia Re: I found out some info on H's behavior! - 09/26/18 02:55 PM
(((Jlh))) so sorry you are having to go through this. Can you set up strict visitation times with him? It will keep him out of your house and give you some time to run you errands and GAL. I do this with D3 and D 10 months, I know its heart wrenchingly hard but I need some time to get a hold of my lifee too, once I made peace with not having them for a day or two in a week, I was able to run my life better. Also, WH is not welcome anymore in my home, he left it on his own will, he cannot drop in and hang out as he pleases, that is cake eating and I wont have it. Can you have visitation set up such that he picks up your S at scheduled times and drops them off, without having to actually step inside your house? Believe me, that has made a world of difference to me. I dont need the toxicity and negativity around me anymore

He got upset you saw a L? Well I would say that was more scared really, he knows you are standing up for yourself now and that is a fantastic thing. Have you tried mediation? I hear you on not being able to move back to your own state due to custody arrangments, I am from a different country with absolutely no family here but I have no choice in that matter. What I can do though is just make a beautiful life for myself just where I am and so can you.

Go find your happiness and cut WH out of it. At this point D is just an end of the business part of the MR, we both need to see it that way.

Hugs
Posted By: Jlh Re: I found out some info on H's behavior! - 09/26/18 08:03 PM
He definitely looked a little startled when I saw the lawyer. I'm just protecting myself and our son during this crazy time. He definitely likes to be in control but I'm not even sure of what hes controlling. His feelings? That part has always confused me in the books.
Posted By: kech Re: I found out some info on H's behavior! - 09/26/18 08:22 PM
JLH,

I caught myself up on your sitch this morning, and it sounds a little similar to mine, except mine has had OW, not a MLC I dont believe. But I just wanted to drop in and say I am so sorry you are also dealing with this. Your husband has some similarities to mine in his actions and words. Pulling away, sending little mixed signals sometimes, talking about Divorce when you pull away, etc. He also does not want us involving lawyers and wants us to be able to handle it on our own. I am 31, H will be 30 in 2 weeks, and our daughter is 7 months. BD was when I was 5 months pregnant.

It is a ROLLERCOASTER ride that is FOR SURE. You sound SO much like me, reading into every interaction. I was reading your sitch and thinking gosh she sounds JUST like me. Picking up on literally every thing because we know them so well and can tell when theyre acting more positive, negative, having a pity party, manipulating, all of the above. The main thing I have been told that I try to pound into my mind, we have no control over what they do or say, only ourselves. And the things they are doing and saying that we are trying to find meaning behind, really have no meaning. I am CONSTANTLY trying to mind read, and it kills me.

There is a woman on here named Bluwave, she has been a lifesaver to me. Her H had OW a few years ago, and Blu would come here to read and get advice but she never actually posted. About a year after her husband came back and they were piecing their relationship, she started to post to try to help other people in these situations. She said one of the biggest things she would go back and tell herself is to stop mind reading. Stop trying to figure out how he is feeling or what he is thinking by every interaction we have with them. She said she asked her husband when he returned how he actually was thinking and feelilng in certain situations and most of the time, what she had thought was going on in his mind was mostly incorrect. When she felt like he wasnt missing her, he was. When she felt like he was missing her, he actually wasnt, things like that. She said oddly enough, the time her husband missed her the most was a random conversation they had one day about the dog over the phone. He told her that a few minutes discussing THE DOG is what made him realize he wanted to come home.

I am just saying all this to tell you, what we drive ourselves crazy over (if youre anything like me), trying to figure out what every tone, convo, etc, means, we are wasting our time. They are wayward, they are self serving, they are on their own journey. I know ALL of this is easier said than done. Trust me. If you read my threads Im a complete mess. Im spinning half the time, losing my mind over how much I miss H. I mean just 2 minutes ago I was posting how much I miss him and feel like im losing him. You sound like you are in a MUCH better place mentally than I am, but I just wanted to add my 2 cents in. I have had some AMAZING people on here help me through this last month since starting DBing.

You are smart in consulting a lawyer, that is my next step, and the last thing I have wanted to do,but I know I need to educate myself. You sound like you are on the right road. I will be thinking of you!!
Posted By: Jlh Re: I found out some info on H's behavior! - 09/26/18 11:12 PM
Oh gosh, kech I feel like a hot mess most times with worrying over debt, job search, my son's school and possible upcoming after school care, etc.

I am very bad at mind reading and trying to figure every little thing he says and does. Its so hard to stop but lately his behavior has just angered me so its easier to not think about his issue right now as I look into job hunting and my son. H is selfish, and doesn't seem to care that he dumped the house, our pets and childcare all on me alone. Its tiring and frustrating but I'm going day by day. He hasn't served official paperwork yet even though he has a poor draft agreement written up to go over with me. I told him I'll talk about it when I'm ready. I'm just worrying about me right now. He wanted to be soooo happy yet he is not happy and not at peace in his lonely apartment. He says hes fine but everyone can tell how miserable he is. I don't feel bad for him anymore. He's teary eyed and cries when he talks about missing our old times together yet will get a wall up and say hes fine and over everything. He has issues he needs to resolve on his own. I have my son to think about.
Posted By: kech Re: I found out some info on H's behavior! - 09/27/18 01:55 AM
Good for you for saying you will talk about it when you are ready. I never know what to say to my H when he brings it up. Last time I finally just said I agreed and for him to do what he needs to do. He’s the one who decided to get caught up with another woman and break up our family. If he wants a divorce, he can do all the work towards it and go from there.

You sound very strong. Focusing on you and your son is what’s important. I wish I was being as strong!! I’m focusing on me and daughter but every minute my head is wondering where he is and what he’s doing and if he’s falling more and more in love with someone else. It’s very difficult.

Do you guys have a schedule set In stone for the coparenting? I was allowing H to come daily to see daughter but kept being advised on here to set up a schedule, so this has been our first week of that. It’s tough for sure. I’m really really feeling the separation. I only asked him to leave the house 4 weeks ago tomorrow, so living Apart is still taking some getting used to.

You can do this! You sound like you’re doing really great mentally, keep going! Keep being the wife any man would be crzy to leave!!
Originally Posted by Jlh
I am very bad at mind reading and trying to figure every little thing he says and does.


Well it's like you keep saying, he says and does contradictory things from day to day or even moment to moment. That is what they all do and there is no figuring it out. That's one of the reasons we push people so hard to detach, because the more you try to figure out his crazy actions then the more crazy it makes YOU!

Quote
H is selfish, and doesn't seem to care that he dumped the house, our pets and childcare all on me alone.


He probably does care and it is probably really eating at him, but he will never let you know that. What is going on inside a WAS is usually far different than what you see on the outside.

Quote
He wanted to be soooo happy yet he is not happy and not at peace in his lonely apartment. He says hes fine but everyone can tell how miserable he is. I don't feel bad for him anymore. He's teary eyed and cries when he talks about missing our old times together yet will get a wall up and say hes fine and over everything. He has issues he needs to resolve on his own. I have my son to think about.


Yes that's all probably quite true. He's not happy, but he will act "as if" he's fine. At least he remembers there were good times, a lot of WAS's erase all that from their memory. You are right, he has issues that he needs to resolve, and only he can do that. That's why you give him time and space- so he can make that journey.
Posted By: Jlh Re: I found out some info on H's behavior! - 09/28/18 11:09 PM
I totally get the detaching now, anotherstander. It's so hard for me to try not to figure him out but now that I'm backing off and focusing on my life and getting on track it's nice to have evenings where I relax a bit more instead of wondering what he's going through.

We had a little family party for our son and he came over with smiles and a pleasant attitude and even asked to take some of the cake I made back with him and I didn't think too hard into it. He had some thoughtful looks and was a bit quiet but I focused on my boy and the good time I was having with him as he opened his gifts.

It's sooooo hard for me to detach but I'm doing it finally. smile I've put a ton of resumes and applications out there for work and it feels good to think more about me now.
Posted By: why15 Re: I found out some info on H's behavior! - 09/29/18 02:13 PM

Hi Jlh, I just read up on your latest...my H has/does the same.. we have a home and a weekend property that have both been left for me to deal with.. he offers no help with physically helping .. we have pets that he groomed that I am now dealing with..when I talked to a lawyer my H got all weepy and asked me not to divorce . he said he needed space and time.. well, mine has been involved with OW for 3.5 years and living with her for 3 so I don't know how much time and space he needs. I don't want a divorce , my h has so many issues he needs to address and deal with and I am doing all I can to wait this craziness out but it is very hard..

when I ask mine what he wants all he says is he wants peace.. if I say ok, then file for divorce and go your own way.. he gets upset and shuts down and hides.. if I mention lawyers he curses at me..

I have backed off a lot over the last few weeks, I guess you could call it DARK.. I stopped initiating contact unless I absolutely had to and by that I mean unless I need his signature on something or he has an actual document I need I do not try to talk to him anymore..

Detaching from them is soo very hard, but I see why everyone says it is necessary..

you are doing the best you can..protecting yourself and your child is what is important ..
Posted By: Jlh Re: I found out some info on H's behavior! - 09/30/18 11:18 PM
I feel like it's you're damned if you do and damned if you don't at times. I'm working much harder on keeping a happy face and doing my 180 while detaching. We just had a mini party for us and our son for his birthday this weekend where H was chatty and happy one minute and then quiet and thoughtful the next during the time he was here. I ignored it instead of doing my usual asking if he's alright.

I've been super focused on my new therapist and looking for work but from time to time I get caught up in thinking of happier memories of me and H.

The fall season is our favorite season together but I'm pushing past that to focus on me and my son instead of moping around like I want to do some days.
Posted By: Jlh Re: I found out some info on H's behavior! - 10/02/18 09:22 PM
I just have to vent, I don't understand the rudeness of these runaway spouses. H came over to pick up our son for a few hours and I said hello to greet him being polite. He didn't answer me so I stopped my cleaning and looked straight at him and said hello again pointedly. He greeted me back but then as we were talking about our kiddo's appt. this morning and school he just walks off, cutting me off and I'm talking.

I don't get the attitude and rudeness at all. Oh and he asks to use the bathroom. It's still his house too even though he acts like it's torture coming here. Why is this dis-ease not labeled as a real mental illness? And I don't get it when people say that some of their spouses come back and seem to have no memory of how horrible they treated their LBS.

I would love to tell him how he acts but I read and hear to be polite and civil, but I have a feeling explaining the rudeness wouldn't even sink in on him.
Posted By: sia Re: I found out some info on H's behavior! - 10/06/18 01:40 PM
Jlh, see him for the grown up man child that he is, have no expectations. When he is rude and ignoring you, he is a teenager, if you are explaining to him how you feel it is like telling a toddler about it. None of us can ever understand their mental status, at one point I thought WH might have a brain tumor or terminal illness for him to be behaving the way he was, yes it should be a clinical mental illness, I call it the run away syndrome.
Seeing how some LBSs eventually become WASs themselves it seems like it is contagious too, lol

Focus on you, on your kids. What helps me is always writing about my life outside of WH, adding to my posts what I am doing, how my kids are doing. I follow up every venting session with this, a lot of times it is tailored thoughts, we keep ourselves a balance of both emotions, some day we will lean more towards ourselves and less about the WHs.

What is Jlh doing, how is she making her own life better, what areas are improving now that WH is not affecting those, how are her wonderful kids doing? What are you still thankful to have?
Posted By: Jlh Re: I found out some info on H's behavior! - 10/07/18 08:14 PM
Honestly Sia, right now I am so fed up with this behavior I'm really thinking hard about what I want later. I hear that these people sometimes come back and just seem to forget all the antics and things they said which just boggles my mind. How do you just forget treating your spouse like they are your worst enemy and dirt.

I just got a new job, my son is happy in school, the only thing really stressing me out is the debt he put us in with his shenanigans. My friend gave me info to join a great charity group she and her family do that our son can even join in if he would like. I want to get out and meet people and make friends. I was sad at first because fall is H and my favorite season together, but I am now doing cool things like apple and pumpkin picking and decorating for Halloween with our son and we have a blast together.

The only part of H that is annoying me really is his immaturity now. I see a therapist and he gives me things to think about and work on regarding my own well being and so far I've gotten a job, stopped reading up on midlife crisis, made my goal weight loss number, paid off one of my debts. I'm slowly getting there and I realize I am a strong woman who can handle being a single mom. A month ago and further back after the bomb drop I wouldn't have imagined being this tough now but I am back to doing my hobbies at night, watching movies on my own, and doing things I like to do for me.

If he doesn't come back, I know I'm going to be okay. If he does, we will have some long discussions on what will happen.
Posted By: Jlh Re: I found out some info on H's behavior! - 10/11/18 07:25 PM
So H doesn't talk to me in person if he can help it, he avoids the house and me. Well last night I was a little surprised when he asked me how I was doing. I did my usual and kept the conversation casual and polite and I didn't say too much.

This morning I get an email from his asking if I'm ready to talk about the D paperwork (which he rarely brings up and it's out of date with a lot of the info on it.) But he asks me if I'm ready to talk about it and how mediation and joint filing is MUCH easier than going to court. The thing is this isn't a mutual joint thing. He left the home and abandoned us. He was polite in the beginning of the email but by the end he was scolding me for hanging on and saying he'll file separately if he needs to.

He only talks in email and text about this stuff, never in person but when he does he runs off quickly.

I don't get the threats of the filing separately, just file if you're going to file. I told him that I'd rather discuss it all in person to which I get no reply.

I have good days, more good than bad, and this is a funky day.
Posted By: Jlh Need a tip on how to deal with rude MLC/WAH. - 10/18/18 09:39 PM
So when we are detaching and finally doing okay for ourselves, how do we handle when our midlife/walkaway spouses barely acknowledge us. My H comes over to pick up our kiddo and he barely looks at me or forces himself not to look me in the eye, doesn't return my polite greeting most of the times, will just walk away to go see our son WHILE I'm talking about things he asks about regarding our son's school, health, etc. Lately I had a few questions for him on some generator and house things since its getting colder and you'd think I asked him of the world. It's beyond getting old. I asked about the generator so I can keep his son warm in a blackout and he barely talks.

I'm doing much better with detaching, but the rudeness just irks me. Who is this guy to treat me like this?? HE'S the one who left us, had an EA, put us in debt, etc, yet he acts like I'm the villain and acts like something he found under his shoe.

I've read here and elsewhere that trying to ask him things won't help so can someone tell me how they handled when their spouse treated them rudely. I'm not asking for him to sit and have coffee and chat, I just want him to have some common courtesy and treat me like a person and not some scumbag who did him wrong.

I don't know how other LBS do it because right now I'm at my wits end.
Originally Posted by Jlh
So when we are detaching and finally doing okay for ourselves, how do we handle when our midlife/walkaway spouses barely acknowledge us.
Persevere-Happily and patiently. Treat him like anyone in the service industry.


Quote
My H comes over to pick up our kiddo and he barely looks at me or forces himself not to look me in the eye, doesn't return my polite greeting most of the times
His issue. Do not worry about it. Focus on being friendly and happy.

,
Quote
will just walk away to go see our son WHILE I'm talking about things he asks about regarding our son's school, health, etc.
Stop talking. If this pattern continues. Set a boundary.


Quote
Lately I had a few questions for him on some generator and house things since its getting colder and you'd think I asked him of the world. It's beyond getting old. I asked about the generator so I can keep his son warm in a blackout and he barely talks
Ask someone else to come help.

.
Quote
so can someone tell me how they handled when their spouse treated them rudely.
Set a boundry.
First step: walk way.
Posted By: Jlh Re: Need a tip on how to deal with rude MLC/WAH. - 10/18/18 11:17 PM
Thanks for the reply, Ready2Change, it's just infuriating that the LBS has to be calm and civil when their spouse is going through this "miserable tunnel" and unfairly treating the LBS like dirt.

I don't chase him, I live my life and raise our son primarily no, I work a part time job now to work on paying late bills and pay for son's food and clothing, and even got a lawyer to protect us. Meanwhile H complains of having little to no money even though he makes a six figure amount with his job. I'm pissed, I'm hurt and I'm scared, yet the books say that I need to be the one to be civil and calm when all I want to do is shake him and say, "get over yourself, you're not the only one hurting now."

It's exhausting and he just casually asks if I'm tired because I looked exhausted. I hold back from shouting at him with comments like that.
Originally Posted by Jlh
I'm pissed, I'm hurt and I'm scared,
These are all normal responses.

Quote
yet the books say that I need to be the one to be civil and calm when all I want to do is shake him and say, "get over yourself, you're not the only one hurting now."
The idea is to respond when your emotions are not controlling you. Thinking and logic.

Quote
It's exhausting
Yes it is.

Quote
and he just casually asks if I'm tired because I looked exhausted.
W",H, I am. goodnight" and walk away.
Posted By: Jlh Re: Need a tip on how to deal with rude MLC/WAH. - 10/19/18 11:18 AM
I guess my hormone week has me overwhelmed feeling, lately I've been doing much better just ignoring his nasty attitude, but this week is nuts.

He couldn't come over to check out our hot water heater when I smelled some gas, actually huffed and sighed when I asked to check since its a gas hot water heater. Complained to me about the cost of getting a new hot water heater and got fussy when I offered to call the company to ask about payment plans and such. I can't feel bad for him about the money for the Hot water heater as hes the one who put us in horrible debt. (The gas smell and issue is gone btw, just no hot water til I get the thing fixed.)

He will pick and choose when he wants to email me to talk about D mediation and gets fussy when I brush off the emails. He threatened to file separately if I don't agree to a joint filing but then he will stop talking about it for weeks on end only to bring it up again if he starts to get a little friendlier with me.

I think I'm going to go into hiding with my moodiness this weekend and take the kiddo to some fall activities to forget the H issues for a few days. Honestly are these MLC this crazy and confusing? I'm not supposed to be worrying about him and just taking care of me, I know. I'm just so tired of his attitude, but a few friends noticed it too so I'm glad others see it now and not just me.
Originally Posted by Jlh
I don't know how other LBS do it because right now I'm at my wits end.


Time and practice....resisting the urge to ask questions about mood, just greeting cordially even if you get nothing, or something nasty, in return. GAL he's a lot too. When are are fulfilling ourselves for ourselves, we car less and less about our unhappy spouses' moods. Luckily mine isn't intentionally nasty, but I practice all of these things anyway so as not to find myself easing into questions about what he's doing while we are separated or R talk.
Posted By: job Re: Need a tip on how to deal with rude MLC/WAH. - 10/19/18 01:27 PM
Jlh,

I have merged your threads since your "current thread" had only 65 postings. Please stick to one thread until you have reached 100 postings/replies. You can change your subject/topic title at any time while posting in a thread.
Posted By: Jlh Re: Need a tip on how to deal with rude MLC/WAH. - 10/20/18 12:59 AM
Grace, we just had a civil talk about the budget for alimony and such tonight. Meanwhile he was red eyed and sniffling the whole time. I just don't get this anymore. He says one thing and acts another way. I just want what is best for my son and me.
Jlh.... Forgive me because I didn't read your entire 1st and 2nd threads from the beginning yet, but did your H have an affair? My H has a lot of self-loathing about it, (even though it didn't stop him from doing it at least twice!!), and has on more than one occasion stated he's no good to anyone and can't imagine why I would want him around. They don't see any solution except to escape. What they don't realize, often until it's too late, is that their escape is no escape at all, because you can't escape from yourself. They try to fill the voids in often destructive ways. So, I don't know if this applies to your H, but he probably is internally beating himself up for not being able to do the work necessary for R, at least not now. Perhaps he is having 2nd thoughts? Who knows, and it won't help to ask because he probably won't say the truth that's in his heart. My H, several months back while in MC, said that if we do get divorced, he see's no reason why it can't be amicable and we remain friends. I'm not so sure about that. We'll see as we are early in this process.

I have been GAL like crazy for 2-3 months now, and 2 people recently told me I seem happy. I recently realized that I am. I am working on filling my life with nice people, and activities that bring me joy. Reengaged in my faith too, which has been awesome. Sure I have moments of sadness, or obsessive thoughts about what H is doing, but I try to quickly replace them with positive thoughts or an activity. I still don't want to be divorced, and hope H is willing someday to build a new marriage. But, in the meantime, I am getting on with life. I hope you can too. It is helping me through this process a great deal.
Posted By: Jlh Re: Need a tip on how to deal with rude MLC/WAH. - 10/20/18 07:45 PM
He had an EA, Grace21. He feels a lot of shame about it he said and he said a while ago that he is messed up after his brother's passing although after that he says he's just fine now (thats a lie). He as well said that he wants to be great friends still, but I just don't know. Friends don't to the things he did to people they love.

I'm feeling tons better since my hormones calmed for the month, lol! I took my son to the playground and then saved a bunch of money on groceries so those made me happy. I do pretty well for the most part with being happier and moving forward but some days I just get in a funk and think back to happier times. I've been forcing myself to think about happier things when I catch myself starting to wonder about him and trying to analyze his behavior. It just drives me crazy to worry when I need to worry about me instead.

I'm so glad you are taking care of yourself and you're happier. Once I get my kiddo to bed later, I can read your threads to catch up. I have a break now while he is "fixing" his matchbox cars, lol!
Posted By: Jlh Re: Need a tip on how to deal with rude MLC/WAH. - 11/13/18 09:03 PM
Well so far so good. I love my new job and I'm settling into a new schedule with just me and my son. H likes to call every night to say goodnight to our son which is basically a one sided conversation since the kiddo is six and not into talking on the phone. I don't prompt him to talk as much and it ends up being awkward for him.

There was one night he ended the conversation with "love ya" as a goodbye and then I got super quiet and I think he realized what he said because he was quiet too. I just hung up and honestly it kind of messed with me for a day or two but I pushed past it and chalked it up to his weird behavior. Its still the same thing; one minute he's chatty and the next he acts like its a chore to talk to me. Especially after the love remark, he totally gave the cold shoulder to me after his blurting that out...lol! I'm the one who has to initiate every hello and small talk while we wait for our son to get ready to go with him and it's just disappointing and maddening that a grown man can act like that. The guy can't even come into the living room or go upstairs to get his things. I've been sort of conned into getting some things for him from upstairs but no more, he can get his own things if he needs them so badly. I know now that its not me at all, he's screwed up with whatever his issues are and I am only bettering myself while I notice him looking miserable and a mess. I feel good and in fact I'm looking to work hard, get some school under my belt, and I want to try to the assistant manager position at my job.

H and I have both seen as well as went over some paperwork separately with our own lawyers but nothing is signed and finished yet.

I'm excited for the holidays with my boy. It kind of stings not having my husband (the non crazy one) with us but he chose his path. All of his reminding me that he has no plans with his family isn't making me sympathetic. I'm making a mini thanksgiving dinner for me and my son on black Friday as I have to work on Thanksgiving, which I get paid time and a half. Score! I've gotten more handle on my finances and am slowly coming out of the horrible debt he put us in. things are looking up for me and even though I get low days I am feeling so much better now on my own knowing I can survive.
Wow Jlh... Good for you! Your post is inspiring. I know that it doesn't mean you don't have down days but you are definitely heading in the right direction. Just keep doing what you are doing. You are not only going to survive, you are going to THRIVE. Believe it!!! It will happen. (((HUGS)))
Posted By: Jlh Re: Need a tip on how to deal with rude MLC/WAH. - 11/15/18 09:51 PM
Thanks! Its still weird to see him just come into the house and not greet me, talk to me, try not to even look at me, etc. He did this to ME yet he seems to try to avoid me like a plague. I just don't get it but I push forward since I guess I'll never get answers on his behavior. I hear if it's a midlife thing this could last for years and that just is weird to me, how they can snap out of this and then seem to act like they don't even know what happened. I rarely hear any good endings to these situations so I don't focus on IF he could come back, I just work on me.

I've had a few down days recently, I guess since it's the holiday season starting. I miss my old husband who did not act like this and was happy.
I noticed this past week that my H hasn't been doing his nightly calls he makes to our son every night. No warning or anything, he just stopped calling. Now our son doesn't really ask to use the phone as he's still young.

Last night, my boy asked to see his dad so I called him so they could talk and later I asked him if he's not calling anymore at night. His reply was that he didn't want to bother our son. He says this is a "woe is me" kind of tone. He then says that when he's older maybe son will want to talk so he'll just let him call if he wants to talk to his dad. Our son is 6. He's not a phone person, and personally I think H should make the effort to call him. I don't keep him from talking to his dad and I can tell he notices that he hasn't gotten his nightly call from his dad.

When I told him this, H seemed to perk up almost like he wanted an ego boost. I'm just not sure how to go about this; should I let it go and not push it since H doesn't want to call so he doesn't "bother" as he claims? Because honestly, if he's waiting for us to call him so our kiddo can say goodnight it seems a little rough to do to a kid putting it on him to call his daddy instead of H making the effort.

Also, he has said this BS before about not wanting to "bother" our son. Is he honestly talking about our son, or does he mean me and our son. I know the books say to not question the spouse too much, but H's "woe is me, I'm lonely" thing is getting old. Its like he pulls away yet still wants to be a distant part of our lives without the effort right now. Lately for someone wanting to be so happy out of our house, he's been looking miserable.

I just dont want his depression or whatever he is going through to hurt our son.
Oh man, don't you hate having to remind your H that HE is the adult!!!!! Good grief! Do you really have to ask people to be a parent to their kids? It's ridiculous! Here is what I suggest- tell H that S misses his calls and set a schedule with him. Maybe it's once a week or 3 times a week or whatever, but set a repeating day and time and ask if he wants to call S or he wants S (you) to call him. Why do I think you should go to all this effort? Because S needs it. Your H is still off in la-la land so you've got to be an adult for both of you right now. Good luck!
I just don't get these mood swings of his. He can hate me or whatever, because he sure seems to even though I have no idea what I did, but to confuse our son is too much. He wanted our boy to call him when he wanted to talk, so last night I called for him to talk and H doesn't pick up the phone or return the call. I just dont get this new mood addition to his behavior.

He comes by the house, takes extra folding chairs for thanksgiving with his family, yet wont come up to our bedroom and take the rest of his personal things. My divorce lawyer contacted me via email and wants to meet up with him, H and his own attorney over financial stuff.

I just cant figure this attitude and nastiness. I told him to get our son ready to go to his place (instead of me always doing it while he just sits on the stairs and pouts) and you'd think I insulted him.

I do great most days but some days especially now I guess since the holidays are starting I feel lonely, miss my old husband who wasn't this mean monster, and I cant stop crying. I'm mad at myself because I was doing so well with meeting new people at my son's school, working hard at work, talking with friends and talking to my therapist.

I don't know how people wait this crap out even with detaching, more power too them.
Originally Posted by Jlh
I don't know how people wait this crap out even with detaching, more power too them.


I don't think we have a choice. We have to wait and make the best of what time is offering us.

And remember what the DR book says, that the journey will not be a smooth linear one, but with jagged peaks and valleys. Just keep on going.
It definitely is not easy, pain18. H is in the Hospital with an issue and nobody is keeping me posted. He had felt ill and dropped our son off with me to go to urgent care but ended up in the hospital. I didnt hear anything all night and I finally asked his mom and niece this morning if they heard anything. Niece didnt know a thing about it and his mom never picked up the phone or called me. H finally texted back (no call of course) that he was in the hospital for a few days. I told him to feel better soon and he never replied.

I guess thats it then, he cant stand me, I didnt do a damn thing and he cant even keep me posted on how hes feeling. After twelve years you'd think he would be a little more courteous if anything for our son who is asking about him.
Originally Posted by Jlh
H is in the Hospital with an issue and nobody is keeping me posted.


Why do you need to be posted about him, if he wanted you to know he would have called, not texted.

Originally Posted by Jlh
I told him to feel better soon and he never replied.


The more you pursue the more he moves away.

Originally Posted by Jlh
I guess thats it then, he cant stand me,


Then you have your answer, be with be who wants to be with you. This site offers solutions to your happiness, are you using those solutions? Are you doing the work. Stop focusing on him. This is your life, I guarantee you there is a man out there that will love you for who you are!

Now its time you be the adult and explain to your S that daddy is in the hosp and he will be ok. When you get info that the issue is serious then address it but until then let H be. Remember right now he doesnt want anything to do with you, give him what he wants.
I just assumed that even though we are not divorced yet since he is in the hospital with a serious infection someone could have said something to me. We have a kid together to God's sake. Suddenly I'm the enemy and I did nothing to him.

I don't get how telling someone to feel better soon is pursuing, but it's fine. He can go do his own thing, I'm looking more into the D paperwork with my attorney tomorrow to move on.
Originally Posted by Jlh
It definitely is not easy, pain18. H is in the Hospital with an issue and nobody is keeping me posted. He had felt ill and dropped our son off with me to go to urgent care but ended up in the hospital. I didnt hear anything all night and I finally asked his mom and niece this morning if they heard anything. Niece didnt know a thing about it and his mom never picked up the phone or called me. H finally texted back (no call of course) that he was in the hospital for a few days. I told him to feel better soon and he never replied.

I guess thats it then, he cant stand me, I didnt do a damn thing and he cant even keep me posted on how hes feeling. After twelve years you'd think he would be a little more courteous if anything for our son who is asking about him.


Well that was very uncaring of him and his family to just leave you uninformed like that. Sure he may be done with the M but you are right, you would think he would ask someone to let you know just out of common courtesy. I think you did the right thing in reaching out to him and his family.

As far as him not being able to stand you, you don't know that. You really don't know what he's thinking/ feeling, and even if he does feel that way it's just for now. You have to do things without expectations. It was fine to tell him to feel better, but not fine to expect some kind of response as it didn't really warrant a response.

My ex didn't want to have anything to do with me after BD. In my snooping phase I found a message she sent to a friend that her "worst nightmare" was contracting a serious illness and having to depend on me to take care of her. That was her exact phrase- "worst nightmare". Wow did that ever hurt to read. Now, several years after BD? My ex asks me for help with things around her house all the time. She invited me to Thanksgiving at her mom's. So feelings can and do change. Your H's will as well, try to look at your current sitch as temporary. Yes he may not want much to do with you right now, but a month from now? A year from now? Who knows.
I was just thinking, when I hear that some of these walk away spouses come back after some time, are they truly remorseful over things they did during their time away from their spouses or is it more that they are scared of being alone so they try to come back?

I heard that a lot of the time the LBS will move on find happiness elsewhere and that's when the walk away spouse "sees the light" and regrets their past decisions.

Honestly, I just don't believe anymore what I read from various places on how the walk-away-spouse barely remembers what they did or said during their fog. It seems like that would mean that it's some serious brain or mental issue that they miraculously overcame.

Right now, I'm waiting for my lawyer to get back to me because H's lawyer hasn't responded to my lawyer's request for a meeting between the four of us for financial settlement reasons. I did everything my lawyer requested so far and am up to speed on everything yet he's waiting on my H's lawyer to work on their end. It's ridiculous, he wanted out so badly yet I'm the one moving along and he and his lawyer are the ones who seem to be taking their sweet time.

Basically it's like, if H DID happen to come out of his "fog" he could possibly not remember much of this according to some sites on midlife whatevers. It all just makes no sense. I've had some medical issues happen recently so talking to H was the last thing on my mind really when he picks up our son or drops him off. I have a lot on my mind for the future and wish this guy would just basically "poo or get off the pot with his issues so we can all move on."
Who knows, it's case by case? And I think sometimes they come back but they aren't ready to accept the reality of what they have done and how it's affected people. Most WAS's have an OM/OW, so it's not fear of being alone IMO.

It's just human nature to want what you can't have. We always tell people to read the pursuit/distancer link or the picnic link. People want to be wanted.

I don't remember a lot of what I've said, ever. I remember better how I felt. Adding emotions to things tends to affect memory. WAS's and LBS's are usually going through the most emotional time of their lives.

Your H is likely the one delaying it, not his lawyer. The lawyer works for your H. If the lawyer was backlogged he would likely give a timeline.

Your attitude is probably what has him second guessing. Just keep carrying on with your life and making it better. If H comes back, we'll see how you feel about it. If he doesn't, oh well nothing changes for you.
The phenomenon that is selective memory is a real thing. When someone can convince themselves that the destructive things they are doing are right and justified, as many WSs do, it isn't that far of a leap to think that that latter they can also convince themselves that those destructive actions were actually perpetrated by someone else entirely! Humans have a big capacity to white-wash things ("I never did that!" "What I didn't isn't as bad as so-and-so is doing (even if it is the exact same thing!)."

So yes, I can believe that some WSs can "forget" what they did. My WW, when she was starting to comeback expressed remorse. But guess what, I have no doubt that the next time someone close to us starts behaving the same way with their spouse, she will be one of the most outspoken against their actions. It is kind of like reformed smokers. I used to smoke ( 25+ years ago) and now I am the most intolerant of other people's smoking of anyone I know.

Remorse is important related to moving to R. But don't be surprised if he forgets a lot of what he has done (assuming he comes back to the MR).
I'll admit the holiday season has me down this year. I'm trying to keep a happy face but it's rough with all of the stress. H comes over and I catch him just staring at me, but when I look over he looks away, doesn't say much and heads out. He always says, "Call if you need anything" which I want to shout, "You left me, how can you say that so casually!" but I don't. We have long quiet pauses on the phone after he talks to our son and I take the phone back to ask a quick question regarding something important for our son or the house. I end the calls first though always. I have a lot going on lately to keep my mind busy and work is busy so that helps a lot.
Well I survived the holidays alone (as far as marriage). I had a great time with my kiddo and connected with friends and family near and far and it was nice to talk and laugh. I like my job and have fun laughing with everyone while we work.

I noticed the more I look happy, the more H looks miserable. He's gained weight, looks a bit unkempt, and sad. I try not to focus too much on him when he's nice to me and I've done some home repair stuff around the house and it feels good to fix things on my own. H was impressed with some things, yet had a sad look and attitude when he found out that my son and I did a LOT of holiday things together. I wanted to say, "Well life didn't stop when you left the house, dude. It hurts but we're moving forward." I caught him checking out my boobs and almost laughed.

But anyway, I did okay this holiday season. I didn't feel the romantic love but I certainly felt the friends and family love. My son and I have a new bedtime routine which involves him cuddling with me while we watch some cooking and baking videos, nice and calming. He's starting to like to help me cook and bake and he's pretty good at it!

I was so sheltered for years that some things are confusing me like tax stuff coming up and whatnot but its not like I cant ask for help with that. I still wonder sometimes about H's behaviors but I try to push that aside harder and not worry about it. A friend told me that the fact that he looks miserable means that this is not a me issue, its a him issue. For a long time I thought I did something wrong, but it seems more like he has personal things. I have my own too but I'm working on them and it feels good to be less angry, more happy, and I love to do house repair stuff I found, plus I found myself again regarding old likes and dislikes that I kind of pushed aside when I got married and had our son.

Anyway, that's it for now. Have a happy new year everyone and be safe!
Well my kiddo is asking more and more where his daddy is. I'm not pleased that he looks sad now asking. I'm not sure what to say to him. H only contacts him on the two days a week that he wanted in the evenings to see him and the every other weekend. I've told him that our son enjoys him calling him but H says that he is just "bothering us" by calling. I have never said or done anything to make him feel he is bothering his son by calling him. I shouldn't be surprised since the guy acts freaked out to come into the house.

His aunt talked to me and says it sounds like a midlife thing and to hang in there and be patient. Meanwhile I see the lawyer tomorrow to go over some D plans from the other attorney's side.

I work hard for me and kiddo now, I do most of the child raising, the IEP things for him and his lessons in school, meanwhile H is just off doing whatever in his apartment with his off again on again friendliness. I'm just so tired at this point. I'm looking into single parent of special needs kid groups to talk. I'm so far away from my family with little support here in another state. It's just exhausting doing this alone for the most part and he says he wont sign off on anything for me to take my son with me to my home state where I can be with family and friends again.
I know nobody really reads my tale much and post mostly to journal but, I have news. I had prepared for it but it still stings a little. H says that he is fed up with waiting for my lawyer to discuss things with his lawyer. He says that he and his own lawyer feel that mine is stalling and they are going to go ahead and just file for D separately. He says to expect the papers delivered or mailed soon.

He's been upset lately because our son tells him he wants to come home to me about an hour after he brings him to his apartment. I can sort of see why as they don't do too much together other than go grocery shopping now that it's too cold to go out and swim or go to the park.

I have a lot to do now. My family is out of state where I'd get the most support as I have no family up here and my close friends are back home as well. He says he won't sign off on our son coming with me. I have so much to do yet during our talk he was only talking about him him him, how much his attorney costs, money issues, etc.

Meanwhile I have money issues of my own, I was a SAHM for years and stay at home wife before that Im just now back in the workforce part time for work and the other time to care for our autistic son. Im struggling and doing the best I can but I feel like I'm in quicksand.

It must be nice to just be able to run away and hide in an apartment while your wife takes care of the house, pets, a child, etc.
Jlh, head up. You will get through this and be better and stronger. Let him go, maybe he'll figure his stuff out at some point, or maybe not. But you will move upward and onward!
Jlh, I'm sorry to hear that. Hopefully you have been mentally preparing for this moment.

Originally Posted by Jlh
I have so much to do yet during our talk he was only talking about him him him, how much his attorney costs, money issues, etc.
You don't have to listen to all of this. You can shut the conversations down and get to doing what you want and need to do.

Quote
Well my kiddo is asking more and more where his daddy is. I'm not pleased that he looks sad now asking. I'm not sure what to say to him. H only contacts him on the two days a week that he wanted in the evenings to see him and the every other weekend.
You need to be as honest as possible without being rude or mean-spirited when talking about his dad. And you don't have to tell him everything. When he's older, he'll figure it out.

It seems like you and your H have fairly regular interaction. What has the tone been for you? Are you conveying anger, bitterness, etc? Are you pursuing or pressuring him at all? What is your mindset on these interactions?

What have you been up to for fun in the evenings and weekends?
Thanks for the advice and reading, Steve85, and ovrrnbw. I thought I was prepared but it stung, especially after the holidays hit me harder than I had thought they would.

I tell my son the truth, which is daddy is at work, or else at his apartment. I don't know anything else he does so I stick to those and my kiddo seems okay with that.

When H comes over to pick up our son I'm polite and friendly and try to smile. Last night I as in tears as he talked about wanting to hurry this along, I tried to be calm but the tears kept coming although I didn't cry full on. I go by his attitude. He just plain avoids me and/or doesn't greet me some times when he comes to get our boy. I say a hello and keep going about my business as he waits for him. When we text it's about our son usually and I make the effort now not to add a friendly sentence in after the important stuff as he ignores them. He doesn't even call our son in the evenings on days he doesn't have him like he used to claiming it will "bother us".

For fun at night and weekends I am usually exhausted from both jobs and getting ready for the next day so I sit with a book or watch a show or movie or crochet while watching. I chat with friends via text and social sites a lot and have good laughs and such. I do make an effort to put on some makeup and nicer casual clothes when I go out to the bookstore and some errands just to feel good rather than frumpy. I noticed H seems curious when I do that and has some lost looks but I'm doing it for me, not to attract anyone while I'm out.

I'm just having SUCH a hard time processing that my H is gone and doesn't want me. I don't know why and I wish I could detach better but it's so hard. I have that and money issues so I'm just a huge ball of stress. Its like he's trying to move as fast as possible and acts so casual like our past together meant nothing. He was my kindred spirit, lover, best friend and now I'm just trash to him. I talk to my counselor about it because that just guts me.
Jlh- I know exactly how you are feeling. We are in very similar situations. My H hit me with a SA just before the holidays and we are a week or two away from signing. My H can’t stand to be around me or in our house either. I am trying not to take it personally. He’s that way when I’m not here and his mom is. There are a number of different reasons why that is. I think it just reminds my H of the hurt he has caused and he runs from those feelings. When he needs to text me, his texts are always upbeat with lots of smiley faces. I don’t know if he is trying to make me feel better or himself. It’s pretty irritating though. Blowing up your family is nothing to be smiling about.

I am also having a hard time processing but I feel like I am slowly making my way towards acceptance. My H, too, is in a huge hurry and also gives the impression that our history together and the life we had built means nothing. We were debt-free and looking forward to possibly retiring early. That’s not going to happen now. Once this agreement is signed, we will both be in a lot of debt - him especially as he is dead set on buying a home. This from a guy who HATED house maintenance and would get resentful if you asked him to mow the lawn. Now he’s going to be responsible for a home all on his own. Once the dust settles and reality sets in, he is going to hate it. But...not my problem...anymore. My MIL and I did most of the work around our home anyway so his absence, in that respect, is hardly noticeable. He checked out of his household responsibilities years ago with his fake overnight medical treatments.

Detachment will come, I am told, but it is not a steady march forward. There is cycling and days when you feel strong and others when you can barely muster the energy to get out of bed. Regardless, we have to get out of bed anyway. They aren’t kidding when they refer to it as a rollercoaster ride. It really is. The last few days for me have been really tough as we have been finishing the process of separating finances - bank accounts, credit cards, bills, etc.. H is being really helpful with it - much more helpful than he ever was when we were married. He just left most things up to me and then resented me for it. Kind of a d@mned if you do and d@mned if you don’t situation.

Anyway...bedtime for me. Just wanted to send you some support and let you know that you are definitely not alone. (((HUGS)))
It's nuts isn't it, DejaVu6? I'm so sorry you're going through your own D issues with your H. You're lucky your H talks to you about separating your finances and such, mine doesn't talk about this stuff only to tell me that he wants my lawyer to stop stalling and tells me not to worry because the courts will make sure I'm taken care of. (WTH is that even about??)

I notice the more positive I am and friendly, the more he runs. Its very odd.

I can look at photos now where he was happy and positive and then you can see the downhill happening around the time our some was diagnosed with Autism and his family members passed. I know he's messed up and that's part of this but it's just hard to see him hurting inside and not be there for him. My friends tell me I'm too nice and I know I am, it's just hard to let him go. I miss the old H so much and just wish he'd come and fight off this new H who is a jerk but I have to focus on my son and me now.

Keep us posted on your story, ((hugs)) we can do this, we're strong and wont be torn apart by this.
Posted By: Jlh Question regarding his belongings. - 01/21/19 04:00 PM
So he says he's done and wants a quick divorce yet wont collect his things saying it makes him feel bad to do it. Should I put his things by the door to take the next time he comes to get our son or just let them be and he can get them?
Posted By: DejaVu6 Re: Question regarding his belongings. - 01/21/19 05:11 PM
I think it is totally up to you Jlh. I did a bit of both. I found that his clothing in my closet was a trigger for me so I cleared out our MBR of his stuff and left them in bags in our garage. He collected them soon after. Most of the things he wants to take with him are in my garage. He has moved some of it but not all. I've told him he can wait until he buys a house if he wants. Putting his things by the door sends him a clear message that you are on board with giving him space and kind of goes against his accusation that you are holding things up. So do it if that is a message you want to send. I, myself, wasn't thinking about a message when I did it... I was just trying to removed some of the things that were triggering me. Of course, now a closet devoid of his things is also a bit of a trigger but it is one that is rooted in reality and I just need to get used to it.

I know how much all of this hurts. It will lessen over time. (((HUGS)))
Posted By: Jlh Re: Question regarding his belongings. - 01/21/19 07:03 PM
Thank you so much for the advice DejaVu, He just makes no sense at all sometimes, saying he wants to go quickly but then leaving behind a lot of important stuff of his. I just don't want to hurt anymore.

I know DB talks about the don't believe what they say and the actions are different from the words, etc, but I am just at a loss to all of this.

A friend thinks that putting his stuff by the door could possibly cause him to wake up a bit, but I don't care about that, I just want to stop hurting and take care of my so I can get up not feeling overwhelmed and sad.
Posted By: DejaVu6 Re: Question regarding his belongings. - 01/21/19 07:10 PM
I am right there with you Jlh. Very much looking forward to the day when he is not the last thing I think about when I go to sleep and the first thing when I wake. The sadness and the loss is draining, to say the least. Your H sounds a bit more confused than mine in terms of what he wants. If I were you, I would probably pack up some of his things...at the very least, for my own piece of mind. It helps with the moving forward process, I think.

Go dark as much as you can (tough, I know, with kids) and keep the focus on you and your S. Set small goals for yourself. Practice mindfulness and start to build a PMA. Forgive yourself for not being PERFECT. No one is...least of all our WAHs. Also...remember this is not about you. Given all of the stressors your H had undergone just prior to BD, I would say this is definitely about him. When the going gets tough, the tough get going. The weak just run away and leave other people to pick up the pieces. You, Jlh, are tough. Don't ever forget that!!!
Originally Posted by Jlh
So he says he's done and wants a quick divorce yet wont collect his things saying it makes him feel bad to do it. Should I put his things by the door to take the next time he comes to get our son or just let them be and he can get them?


I agree with DV, gather it all up and get it out of your face! You don't necessarily have to leave it on the porch or anything, but at least if you box it up and put it in a remote corner somewhere then it's not a constant reminder. I had to take all the pictures down after my ex left, just couldn't tolerate the constant reminders looking around the house. I also did some rearranging and painting, I didn't like gut the house or anything but did just enough to make it feel less like "our" house and more like "my" house.
Originally Posted by DejaVu6
Very much looking forward to the day when he is not the last thing I think about when I go to sleep and the first thing when I wake. The sadness and the loss is draining, to say the least.


You both will get there. It won't happen fast and won't happen as fast as you want, but it will happen! It happens so gradually that you don't even realize it until you start to see the old triggers are gone. It's true what they say about time healing wounds. Now if only someone could give us a FF button ;-)
Posted By: DejaVu6 Re: Question regarding his belongings. - 01/21/19 08:12 PM
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Now if only someone could give us a FF button ;-)


^^^^^^^ Yes please!!!!
Posted By: Jlh Re: Question regarding his belongings. - 01/21/19 08:15 PM
Amen to a FF button! Lol!



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