Wife & I had been together for 25 years (since she was 18) She left me 2 months ago and took our 2 young children. I was the kids main carer.
I had suspected her of having an A as she locked her phone and was acting secretive with it, became distant, bought a lot of new clothes, lied about when she had bought new underwear, terrible abusive rants at me, looked guilty etc. She didn't reassure me and accused me of being paranoid and insecure.
On the day she left, I'd sent flowers to her at work. I hadn't known she had left me earlier that day.
For the first few weeks separated, we went on some days out together with the children. She offered to pay for some things for me. I said I had wanted to get back together etc. but she said we were over. She said she had no respect for me whatsoever and didn't love me any-more. I asked her if she was seeing someone else and it was then she reacted very badly. My mother asked her where she was going that night and W went into a rant saying "I'm an adult, I don't have to tell you" etc. I thought 'A 43 year-old woman shouting that she's now an adult - what is going on?".
I received a legal letter to say that I was not to talk to her about our relationship. She went to the police and made a long statement saying she had never been happy being with me since we first met. It was all massive exaggerations and lies.
It broke me. I cried on the phone to her. The police didn't make any charges against me. They suggested me bringing charges against her. I declined because I wanted my family back together.
I have quickly worked hard to lose 12kg of weight in 2 months, have a much better hair cut, and dress better. She has said herself that she has noticed a big difference in me. I don't call her and have rarely replied to her text messages (hers are only about the kids). I tell her I have a busy social life and have made new friends (but I give no details), and have plans to move away if we get divorced. She says she wouldn't want me to move away from the area as she wants me to see the kids.
I have said the time and space separated has been very good for me. I have said I would only be willing to take slow tiny steps towards a relationship with her. She said she likes being single, has not had sex, and doesn't want to be in a relationship with anyone for a long while.
I have no proof of an actual A but the signs are there. If she is having an A then it will be someone she knows from her job as she was with me at weekends and nearly every evening.
I know nearly all of her friends better than she does. She says she is now happier than when with me. She is acting extra happy towards people and yet she looks deeply sad when the mask slips.
She told me lies about why she was carrying around very large amounts of cash.
Last weekend at a school event, I distanced myself from her. She gave me nice looks for about 5 hours and bought some food for me. I later said I thought she might still have some feelings for me. She said only as father to her children.
I then realised that she had been planning to leave for a number of weeks, possibly several months whilst we had still been living and sleeping together. She had been hiding her savings (hiding it in cash in advance planning for a divorce) and she took our marriage certificate to her legal person (presumably for a divorce). I know that her parents were a driving force encouraging her to leave me and helping her to plan for it. She is now living with them and they are looking after her and the kids.
Wednesday, I said to her that I now knew she had been lying to me about the reasons why she had regularly withdrawn lots of cash. I said in a sympathetic way that it couldn't have been easy for her to be planning for a divorce behind my back and then coming home and sleeping with me.
Yesterday at a school event, all the children sang a song that always reminds wife & I of our wedding and honeymoon. She looked very guilty and sorry and gave me a look of remembering the significance of the song to us.
I said to her that it can't have been an easy decision for her to split-up our family.
I then make a mistake... I showed her a ring I had bought and said I had planned to give it to her when our relationship had improved but I hadn't given it to her because she had left me. She said it was beautiful but wouldn't take it. I put it back into my pocket.
That night she sent me some long rambling text messages but it was about the kids and I didn't reply.
Today, Friday, I saw her at a school event. I didn't sit next to her, I didn't ask her questions, she leaned towards me a few times to make comments to me about the kids, and I kept my responses minimal.
Afterwards she said she wanted the rest of her stuff from the house. I asked her to speak to me more nicely, so she did. I said that I have already gathered all of her clothes and put them into rubbish sacks ready for her to collect as I also wanted them out of the house.
At the end when leaving, I may have made a mistake... or perhaps not...
I had been fed-up with her acting for 2 months as if she had left me for being paranoid when I had actually been right; I have proof that she had been lying and deceiving me (taking and hiding money whilst we were still together). I asked (in a calm voice) if it was exciting and daring to have deceived me behind my back. This effectively puts me back to square one but the big difference is that I now have proof that I was right and she knows it. She has now lost the moral high-ground (as I have proof she lied). Perhaps it might help to start to bring her back down to earth?
I couldn't understand what was happening but then found this forum and realise that she was showing all the classic signs of being a WW as defined by Sandi2. That's what I have been going through.
It is hard enough dealing with my wife wanting a divorce, possibly being a WW, she planned for divorce behind my back even before leaving me. She now lives with her parents doing all the childcare and housework for her and they support us splitting-up - because they gain financially and they love the idea of their daughter and grand-kids living with them.
My ideal is for our family to get back together but that must involve my W being genuinely sorry and us having what I would see as a new relationship.
Any comments would be very much appreciated as I need a lot of help and support.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
I'm confused what to do, which strategy to follow for my situation?
The strategy is to read the book and follow the steps.
I dont understand your attitude to/about your children. She texts about them and you dont answer? You say her parents are doing childcare for HER and you are moving away after divorce. But what do you want out of your relationship with them? Do you have 0 custody?
Stop with all of the passive aggressive interaction with her. There is nothing to gain. Stop telling her so much and let her love her life. Theres nothing to gain from all of this confrontation and discussion. Go and live your life as you say that you are. Let her notice your change - you dont need to rub it in her face.
I'm confused what to do, which strategy to follow for my situation?
What strategies are you proposing.
I gave you an entire post of things to do, have you read all of that?
Did that lead you to believe their are different things you can do?
Please enlighten me.
I dont understand your attitude to/about your children. She texts about them and you dont answer? You say her parents are doing childcare for HER and you are moving away after divorce. But what do you want out of your relationship with them? Do you have 0 custody?
I was doing nearly all of the childcare for years until the day she left and took the children. She is now living with her parents who are doing nearly all of it. At the moment, I am being allowed 2 hours per week plus seeing school plays etc. but it could soon be more. If we get a divorce then I won't be able to afford to live in the area so I will be forced to move away.
I want our family back together.
What strategies are you proposing.
I gave you an entire post of things to do, have you read all of that?
Did that lead you to believe their are different things you can do?
Please enlighten me.
Many thanks, yes I have been reading and learning.
I have been working on myself and learned things I could have done better sincw S. I'm nearly ready to fix the relationship and make it better than ever. I know I can do it if W gives us a chance.
I have no solid proof that W is having A but she is showing all the signs of being WW as defined by Sandi2. Could those same signs apply to a WAS?
Next week she is coming back to the house to collect the rest of her stuff. How do I best deal with it?
My mother has said she is thinking of calling W to help try to get us back together. Is this a good idea, if so, is there anything she could say that could help?
My mother has said she is thinking of calling W to help try to get us back together. Is this a good idea, if so, is there anything she could say that could help?
Nope
Sorry you are here
I guess i dont understand how it is actually possible for her to take kids that you are primary care giver to and leave them with her parents?
Something isnt adding up in your story.
To me, if that was the case, i dont understand why you are not on here consummed with anger about loss of kids. To me that would be the big factor and most immediate issue.
I really dont understand why you are accepting that? Or why that isnt the big ticket item here?
Sorry you are here
I guess i dont understand how it is actually possible for her to take kids that you are primary care giver to and leave them with her parents?
Something isnt adding up in your story.
To me, if that was the case, i dont understand why you are not on here consummed with anger about loss of kids. To me that would be the big factor and most immediate issue.
I really dont understand why you are accepting that? Or why that isnt the big ticket item here?
I was the main carer when we were together. W has left our home and taken the children with her to live with her parents. W parents are now doing a lot of the childcare, cooking, cleaning etc. W claims that she will allow 50/50 access to the children in future but at the moment she is only allowing me a couple of hours twice a week plus there have been some events lately at the school that we have both been too and W has wanted me to go to them.
I am devestated that I have lost my W, kids and family life. I am trying not to get angry as W might then use that against me as she tried to get me into trouble.
I must warn you ... you only seeing the children for a couple hours a week will not fair well for you in court if it goes that direction. I know it's hard to consider that at this point, but you must. If it takes six months or a year for her to file, that will be a long time for you to only have seen them for only a couple hours a week. There is a clear motive there. You need to change that quickly. In my opinion of course.
Agree 100 percent with loves77
She has no right to take the kids like this. You need to act quickly with a lawyer. I mean act yesterday.
Your marriage is over and you need to wake up fast.. because if you do not you are going to get taken advantage of.
Grow a pair and demand more visitation with your kids. To be compliant with her demands is insane and if you think that is divorce busting, you are misinterpreting everything.
Make sure you remain polite, cool, detached. Show nothing emotionally. Do not threaten. But express in writing that this is not acceptable. They are your children. And you need to set up an arrangement sonthat you see them at least 50 percent.
IT IS NOT IN THE CHILDRENS BEST INTEREST TO BE DEPRIVED OF TIME WITH THEIR DAD. So stop worrying about rings and getting your wife back amd start worrying about your kids. Your wife is not working in their best i terest and you need to become a stronger advocate for them.
In most states in the US, if a mom tried to pull that sh!t, she would actually lose custody rights.
I must warn you ... you only seeing the children for a couple hours a week will not fair well for you in court if it goes that direction. I know it's hard to consider that at this point, but you must. If it takes six months or a year for her to file, that will be a long time for you to only have seen them for only a couple hours a week. There is a clear motive there. You need to change that quickly. In my opinion of course.
That is what I thought at first and W may have done too. The limited hours are not my choice.
However, W isn't capable of looking after the kids on her own for long due to her job and she really doesn't like housework, cooking etc. (I used to do nearly all of it). I know that W's parents get very tired doing childcare and are in their 70s. It is the school holidays soon so W's parents will be doing even more childcare for weeks.
It is W parents second home and would probably rather be at their main house a very long distance away. I doubt W and I would have split-up if their empty second home hadn't been very near to our family home. It was very easy for W to move-out rather than sort out any M issues.
I know that W's parents have encouraged her to leave me since we met 25 years ago, and are probably telling her what moves to make for a D. I think that is why W was hiding money in cash in their house in advance of a D whilst W and I were still together.
However, they might now also suspect that W might be having or had A. Also if W is having an A, she won't want her parents to know and so likely want her parents to move back out to their main house far away.
W last legal letter said that the limited access arrangements had gone well and that W would like to extend them. W is now starting to want my help more with childcare.
I think W wants her cake and eat it with me going back to doing a lot of the childcare revolving around her, then her parents will be off, and W will then have a lot of free time.
W left saying that she didn't respect me nor love me. I think she was resentful of me looking after the kids so much. She didn't value what I did. I think it would do her good if she tried it for a while. She might then regain some respect for me... or perhaps not.
Some things that I've noticed:
A) A month ago we arranged to meet with the kids in a park and she had a work friend in attendance. The friend and I got along well and the friend kindly offered me a lift home. W didn't look happy about that!
The friend gave me a lift home and we talked when she stopped the car. W phoned her and she ignored the call. I got out of the car and noticed that W was parked hidden around the corner. W was spying on us. W very quickly turned the car and drove away. I waved.
B) We went together for a family meal and W had a different friend in attendance. Her friend gave me a hug and kiss when we met.
During the meal I realised that W didn't know the name of her friend. However, I knew it because the friend had given me her phone number when she heard that W and I were splitting-up. W was stunned that I knew her friend's name but W had forgotten it herself.
W hasn't got any very close friends as she never bothered to socialise much when we were together. If she had an A then she wouldn't have told anyone as I know nearly all of the people that she knows, so an A would have been someone via her job.
C) A local woman gave me some lovely compliments like my W hasn't said to me in years. W found out and then swapped phone numbers with her.
D) W knows that a young woman made me a meal and brought it to the house and has offered to do some gardening for me. W doesn't know who it is but has asked me a few times if she has done any gardening yet and said that she might be ideal for me. That is W being a bit jealous.
E) At a school event, W recently got out her mobile phone and 'acted' as if she was being very highly secretive not wanting anyone to see what she was doing.
However, I could tell that W wasn't really doing anything secretive on her phone, I could see she was just looking at photos of the children and deleting some as her phone was running out of memory space. She was certainly 'over-acting' that she was doing something very secretive, and yet I knew there was no reason to be.
It was like she was deliberately trying to make me paranoid or jealous, or perhaps she was trying to mislead me that her past secretive behaviour was nothing.
JujuB,
I am living in the family home where the children have lived all their lives (until W left with them 2 months ago), I have been their main carer, I work from home, my working hours revolved around the children, and W took the children without my consent.
In contrast, W has taken the kids away from their home, her job isn't very flexible, and she hasn't looked after them much or the home. She is now reliant upon her elderly parents for childcare etc.
I had to delay things as W tried to get me into trouble which could have made me look bad for childcare access and divorce. She has now failed in that attempt so I can now move forwards when I want. I am certain that her parents are the driving force behind what W is doing.
I live in the UK and the system for gaining childcare access is very slow. At the end of it, the penalties are tiny if a parent doesn't comply and you have to keep going back to court.
I met someone a few weeks ago. He had overheard me asking W for greater access to the children. Afterwards, he said he wouldn't have been that calm and cool speaking to W and said how I spoke to her was amazing. He said he has been going through the same issue and it has taken 4 years so far with little progress and it has cost him a fortune.
The best way to solve this problem is for W and I to get back together. If I don't agree to a D then it can take 5 years. If I stay in the family home then I might be able to stay in it for 10 years to provide the kids with somewhere to stay when with me.
I have been through 2 months of utter hell and it is tough to get through each day. The lovely W I knew is now awful. I hope that she will realise the wrong she has done and want to put it right but I don't think she will for a while because of pressure from her parents and she is so stubborn.
Hi David
I’m in the U.K. too and going through a similar-ish situation
Your wife has no right to take the children, my solicitor advised me that as my wife is making the move for D and also looking for a house, it is totally in our children’s Best interests to stay in the family home.
My W has turned from a kind loving woman who I’ve been married to for 11 years, to an absolute monster in just six weeks, including the past four months spent in a well known London psychiatric hospital, where she was treated for anxiety and depression.
She was discharged yesterday and ive stupidly let her stay in the MBR until she finds a house to rent.
I hope we can support each other during this absolutely awful experience
Best
Hi David
I’m in the U.K. too and going through a similar-ish situation
Your wife has no right to take the children, my solicitor advised me that as my wife is making the move for D and also looking for a house, it is totally in our children’s Best interests to stay in the family home.
My W has turned from a kind loving woman who I’ve been married to for 11 years, to an absolute monster in just six weeks, including the past four months spent in a well known London psychiatric hospital, where she was treated for anxiety and depression.
She was discharged yesterday and ive stupidly let her stay in the MBR until she finds a house to rent.
I hope we can support each other during this absolutely awful experience
Best
Hi Herbie, yes it would be great to support each other. It would be good if we could contact privately. I would like more details on the advice about the kids staying in the family home and how to go about it. In addition, that might wake-up my W.
David,
quit worrying about every little thing your W and her parents are doing. You can't control any of it. Focus on what you can control.
Quit doing "family meals" with your W. She doesn't want a family with you, your family is you and the kids.
Your W is playing a ton of games, you need to stop. Rise above it. Be the calm one.
Your W won't realize she is wrong like you're hoping. You can't control this either.
Stop pursuing. What does your GAL look like? You don't have the kids much so you should be out and about.
David,
quit worrying about every little thing your W and her parents are doing. You can't control any of it. Focus on what you can control.
Quit doing "family meals" with your W. She doesn't want a family with you, your family is you and the kids.
Your W is playing a ton of games, you need to stop. Rise above it. Be the calm one.
Your W won't realize she is wrong like you're hoping. You can't control this either.
Stop pursuing. What does your GAL look like? You don't have the kids much so you should be out and about.
When W left, I hadn't realised how serious it really was. In 25 years we had never split-up before. I had thought she would be willing to talk about our relationship and we could quickly get back together. I hadn't realised she had already been planning a divorce.
It was her idea to do some family days out together (yet she shouted at the kids that we are not a family anymore), and then just some meals out, and now the kids and I without her. We have been going to school events to support the kids.
From the start, I've not been calling or texting her except for a few important replies. Sometimes she has called if I've not replied. Before I found this forum I had been saying a few things in person about what went wrong etc.
Last week she offered to go and do a couple of things for me but I declined. I realise now that she had probably only offered because she wants the rest of her stuff from the house.
She paid some extra money into the joint account for house bills but I know she has been hiding a lot of her money (advance planning for D). W now knows that I worked out what she was doing, and why, and that she had been doing it before she left. I was really shocked that she had been planning D and yet sleeping with me.
I am doing walking, have lost a lot of weight very quickly with very healthy eating, much better haircut, better clothes etc. I did something in the media that I'd said I would achieve one day but W hadn't believed I'd do it. W has noticed a big change in me. I start counselling this week. I do need to make new friends and get out more.
Good to hear. Don't go throwing your improvements in her face, let her recognize them on her own or else it may come across as contrived.
Keep up the GAL. Have you read the book and all the links?
David, hello and welcome! It sounds like you are following DB principals fairly well as far as getting out, GAL'ing and working on yourself, but you're getting impatient and not giving it time to work. Stop the temperature checking, stop looking at others to intervene, and settle in for the long haul.
Your W is lost in the fog right now. She may come out of it with time, but right now she is fully immersed and there is nothing you can do but give her time and space to work it through.
Regarding whether she's having an A, I'd say the chances are very good she is. Even if she's not in a physical affair she's no doubt in an emotional one, or even an imaginary one (dreams of a knight in shining armor coming to sweep her off her feet).
I have a question for you, you keep talking about your limited visitation as not being your choice, who made that choice and why did you not try to fight it? It seems really odd that a father would go from taking care of the kids all the time to seeing them 2 hours per week unless there's something we don't know (accusations of child abuse or such).
Shortly before we split-up we were looking to buy a new house and new car. Days before she left she bought plants for our garden.
Now I find out that she was taking out large amounts of cash almost every day for months to hide from me for a future divorce.
What makes it even worse is that it has happened to me before when someone took all of my inhertance from an account using cash machines for weeks whilst my parent had been dying in hospital. That made me depressed for 3 years and I just started feeling better about 6 months ago. W knows how much it hurt me and now she has gone and done the same thing for months. It's even worse now because my W has done it.
Since realising that, I've really struggled the last few days crying when I wake up and several times per day when I think about ending it all. I very nearly called W today to ask her to slow down and not rush into a divorce. It took a lot for me not to do that.
I want us to get back together. If she doesn't even try then I don't see how I can ever even like her as a person.
I am still alone at the family home and my close friends live very far away so I lack any support in person. One friend has been amazing phoning several times per day for as long as I want to talk. W only sees a much better version of me.
I have a question for you, you keep talking about your limited visitation as not being your choice, who made that choice and why did you not try to fight it? It seems really odd that a father would go from taking care of the kids all the time to seeing them 2 hours per week unless there's something we don't know (accusations of child abuse or such).
YES. This is what I think everyone in this thread is failing to understand. Maybe it's related to rules in the UK? But I dont see how a mom can just pick up and run away with her kids. Have you been discussing with a lawyer? Is this allowable? It sounds like so far, you are just asking her for time...which is clearly not working. Shouldnt this be coordinated through the courts if you cant agree to something fair?
Like has been said...Im concerned that with this long of 'time away' and with your comments about moving away after divorce, that the court wont look favorably about your interest/dedication.
I am still alone at the family home and my close friends live very far away so I lack any support in person.
Maybe it's time to include that in your GAL. How can you start doing activities that bring you closer to your community?
Hi David
I tried to pm you but was unable to do so- maybe it’s because we are both new users and haven’t reached 100 posts yet.
Not sure how to overcome this?
Hi David
I tried to pm you but was unable to do so- maybe it’s because we are both new users and haven’t reached 100 posts yet.
Not sure how to overcome this?
PM'ing on this board is not allowed and has been disabled
Hi David
I tried to pm you but was unable to do so- maybe it’s because we are both new users and haven’t reached 100 posts yet.
Not sure how to overcome this?
PM'ing on this board is not allowed and has been disabled
Ok - presumably exchanging personal info to contact privately is frowned upon too?
Hi David
I tried to pm you but was unable to do so- maybe it’s because we are both new users and haven’t reached 100 posts yet.
Not sure how to overcome this?
PM'ing on this board is not allowed and has been disabled
Ok - presumably exchanging personal info to contact privately is frowned upon too?
YES - re-read the board rules that you agreed to for posting on this forum
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=boardrules&v=1
David - my W just came home after having gone to see some houses to rent. She was told by her solicitor that until
An agreed childcare arrangement was in place, she couldn’t really rent somewhere with room for our children, clearly she doesn’t want to move out on her own as that could be viewed as abandoning our children. So it does seem like your W is on the wrong side of U.K. law as she stands now
A
I have a question for you, you keep talking about your limited visitation as not being your choice, who made that choice and why did you not try to fight it? It seems really odd that a father would go from taking care of the kids all the time to seeing them 2 hours per week unless there's something we don't know (accusations of child abuse or such).
I looked after the kids when we were still together. W then left and took the kids, then we did days out etc. together as a family for a few weeks. Then she told me what access she wanted me to have for a month. I didn't want any conflict as I thought there was a good chance of us getting back togther. Now she is willing for me to do more but we have not yet agreed between us and I now realise that she wants a divorce.
YES. This is what I think everyone in this thread is failing to understand. Maybe it's related to rules in the UK? But I dont see how a mom can just pick up and run away with her kids. Have you been discussing with a lawyer? Is this allowable? It sounds like so far, you are just asking her for time...which is clearly not working. Shouldnt this be coordinated through the courts if you cant agree to something fair?
Yes, they can just take the kids and then the process of getting fair access can take a very long time. The best option is to try to agree between us. If not, then we can go through a mediation process. If we still can't agree then it can go to a court. The process can take many months or years. I know a guy who has been trying for 4 years to get good access to his kids and the courts are hopeless are enforcing their judgements. The system is really bad in the UK and is a reason why so many fathers give up.
If W and I divorce then I will only get half the profit from the house and so I won't be able to afford to live in the area.
Have you had that info from a good U.K. family lawyer? My wife is paying a very expensive solicitor and she has been implicitly told she can’t take the kids from our family home until we have both agreed terms for childcare and have a legal arrangement in place
I am still alone at the family home and my close friends live very far away so I lack any support in person.
Maybe it's time to include that in your GAL. How can you start doing activities that bring you closer to your community?
I know quite a few other parents but they also know W so I don't feel that I can say much to them at this time.
I had started going to a local pub, got to know a few regulars there, but then realised that they are not the sort of people I want to be friends with. There isn't much else to do locally.
I travelled into the city but I had to leave as there were happy memories everywhere of W and I, and there were families having fun. I had to go home as I was too upset.
I am confident enough to talk to strangers to start a conversation but I don't know anyone locally to go for a day out together etc.
Have you had that info from a good U.K. family lawyer? My wife is paying a very expensive solicitor and she has been implicitly told she can’t take the kids from our family home until we have both agreed terms for childcare and have a legal arrangement in place
Have you had that info from a good U.K. family lawyer? My wife is paying a very expensive solicitor and she has been implicitly told she can’t take the kids from our family home until we have both agreed terms for childcare and have a legal arrangement in place
A UK family lawyer advised me to sort it between ourselves if possible or then go through a mediation process to try to agree. You can only go to a court if mediation has failed. Then the court decides.
If W doesn't stick to the court agreement then you have to go back to court where she may get a small fine. The UK system is a nightmare.
Therefore, be aware that if your W takes the kids there's nothing you can do to get them back insofar as the police won't get involved to take them back. You have to go through a legal process.
What happened to me, I went to collect the kids from school as usual. The school told me they had been taken by W during the day. I then realised that W had left me and taken them. They still go to the same school. In theory, I could go and collect them early one day and bring them home to live with me. In fact W is now asking me about collecting them on some days because she is having problems doing it around her job (where she is most likely to be having an A, if she is).
In fact W is now asking me about collecting them on some days because she is having problems doing it around her job (where she is most likely to be having an A, if she is).
What is best for the kids and what is best for you?
My feeling is that rather than being her babysitter and on-call help, you re-establish yourself as a parent.
Can you plan to have the kids overnight on certain, consistent days? What works best collaboratively between the two of you?
From what I understand - (a mother of one of my son’s oldest friends is a senior partner in a London family law firm)
Courts and judges don’t look favourably on someone who uproots children from a family home before proper childcare agreements have been decided by both parties
[I had started going to a local pub, got to know a few regulars there, but then realised that they are not the sort of people I want to be friends with. There isn't much else to do locally.
I travelled into the city but I had to leave as there were happy memories everywhere of W and I, and there were families having fun. I had to go home as I was too upset.
I am confident enough to talk to strangers to start a conversation but I don't know anyone locally to go for a day out together etc.
I dont know much about UK, but in the US, there are tons of meetup groups or other boards on facebook/social media for people of like minded interests to get together to do things. Hiking, board games, book club, knitting club....whatever your fancy, Ill best there is a group out there. Making new friends and trying new activities is an INCREDIBLE way to build confidence and keep your mind occupied.
When W and I were together, I wrote a song for her. I told her that one day I would get it played on a particular radio station. After W left, I contacted the radio station and they said they would play it.
I knew when it was going to be played. W refused to listen to it on the radio back in the family home with the kids & I. W went off to listen in the car. The kids were amazed and the DJ said it was dedicated to them. W missed that amazing moment seeing the kids so, so happy. W returned to collect the kids, she seemed excited and delighted and said she was proud of me. That was on 16.06.2018.
The best for the kids and I would be to reunite our family with W. It would help to repair all the hurt feelings and learn from past mistakes. I would give anything for W to give us a chance.
The next big challenge for me will be when W returns to collect the rest of her things from the house in the next few days. It will be the first time she has been into the house since she left. I have done some jobs to make it look much better. It's a lot better than where she is now living. She will take some furniture. To me it will seem that she is breaking up our home and she is unlikely to ever go into the house ever again. I don't know how I should be with her about it. Anyone have any ideas?
I know how you are feeling David. My wife just wrote to me about moving all of her things out of her house as well, and asked me if I wanted her to be there when I get back (I'm on a two month road trip.)
Personally, I don't think it is a good idea to be there when she comes back. You, and I, are too emotionally attached - seeing her, especially seeing her moving stuff out, is not going to help. If you have to be there, I think being positive and cheerful but not going out of your way to help her is probably the way to go. I understand how difficult that seems, but getting emotional about it isn't going to help your sitch.
Good luck.
I know how you are feeling David. My wife just wrote to me about moving all of her things out of her house as well, and asked me if I wanted her to be there when I get back (I'm on a two month road trip.)
Personally, I don't think it is a good idea to be there when she comes back. You, and I, are too emotionally attached - seeing her, especially seeing her moving stuff out, is not going to help. If you have to be there, I think being positive and cheerful but not going out of your way to help her is probably the way to go. I understand how difficult that seems, but getting emotional about it isn't going to help your sitch.
Good luck.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Oh what a day... I woke up this morning and instantly cried. I was due to go to my first counselling meeting but I couldn't face leaving the house. I then found out by a bizarre chance that the kids school would be open for parents to view school work. The counselling session clashed so I rearranged it.
I was then feeling much better. I met the kids at the school and W arrived. W said she would have sent a text to tell me that the kids work was available to see but she's having a problem with the messaging on her phone today. I do know that her phone memory is about full and some other parents said they only found out today... but I don't trust her at all and she could have called or sent an email.
I heard a parent I know well speak to W about arranging to go out for a night this weekend. It isn't a wild night out on the town. W has shown all the classic signs of WW but now I'm not quite so sure.
I stayed cool and I concentrated on the kids school work rather than W. I didn't speak to her unless she spoke first and I kept answers to a minimum. I stood back away from her to give space. I turned my back at times. I did some jokes with the kids then W tried to be funny too, she wasn't. I told her she would have to try harder than that.
A teacher said to us about people 'missing one-another and wanting to be together'. W looked at me and gave a nice big smile and knowing look. I couldn't help but respond with the same. We'd not seen each other for about 5 days which is the longest apart for 25 years. I noticed that W was hanging around with me for longer than she needed to be. Her phone rang and she ignored it (ummm...). I then said I had to go as I had things to do. She then said that she did too.
W then said she'd walk in my direction . W said there was another school thing to attend on Friday morning. She also said she was coming to take some things tomorrow evening but she wasn't going to take everything. She said she would come back for the other stuff (that is less valuable and that I use) at a later date.
I then said I was walking to a shop going past where her car was parked. She got annoyed and said we could have gone the other route. I said that it was her idea to walk the same way as me.
One thing I noticed, since W left, her eye pupils have been tiny and she looks very defensive and guilty. She has also been milking the situation for attention from people. She seems to be returning to herself a tiny bit at times. However, It always seems to be the calm before the storm with her. She is nicer to me and then I get hit hard by the next step she makes.
Considering the terrible start to the day. I couldn't have done any better.
Hours away from W arriving to collect her things and it will be the first time she has been back into the house since she left. The house looks better than when she left.
I'm nervous as it feels like she is breaking our home. I've put a photo from our wedding on a table she wants to take. Any advice on what I could say and how to be?
I'm nervous as it feels like she is breaking our home. I've put a photo from our wedding on a table she wants to take. Any advice on what I could say and how to be?
Ugh. Take that photo down. It's pursuing and pressure and will NOT be appreciated.
How about you not be home when she comes?
I then found out by a bizarre chance that the kids school would be open for parents to view school work. I was then feeling much better. I met the kids at the school and W arrived. W said she would have sent a text to tell me that the kids work was available to see but she's having a problem with the messaging on her phone today. I do know that her phone memory is about full and some other parents said they only found out today... but I don't trust her at all and she could have called or sent an email.
How can you get on the mailing list from the school so you dont miss future events like this?
I would stop relying on W for this info or expecting her to share it with you.
OK, photo removed. I will be at the house with the kids. W will be arriving with a friend and taking some things and the kids.
Anything good I could say to W?
Anything good I could say to W?
OK. Didnt realize there was a kids pick up.
No, Id let her and her friend do their thing. Maybe plan to have something going on with the kids so they arent bugging her as she is packing things up. Be dressed nicely/showered. Be in a good mood (as hard as I know that sounds).
Think of it as a minor business transaction.
Hi David..
I can sense at this stage you are looking for an answer.. no carefully worded answers will help at this stage I am afraid.
You need to be honest with yourself and identify situations were you are doing things to draw a reaction from her.
The photo on the table is a perfect example of this... you present it like you are doing her a favour - but in reality it is (subconscious desperation) to trigger a response from her. At this very early stage this is key - If you are doing ANYTHING to provoke an action or response from her then just stop - because that route is a bottomless pit.
The route you will be taking is one for yourself and there is no quick resolution to this situation at all.
It [censored], and its going to hurt and its horrible - BUT in 6 months time - things will seem different.
Lets just get you through this period first of all.
House looks great, I have got good clothes ready to wear. However, I feel like I might cry.
What if she sees that I'm hurt and sad?
What if she sees that I'm hurt and sad?
Leave the room for a minute. You shouldnt be hanging around her anyway.
Show her only confidence. Be upbeat.
Remember no hugs or pressure or anything.
You can do it.
Be strong, man! Fake it till you make it! You can cry when she leaves. Trust me, you will feel better about yourself afterward if you can portray strength and happiness in her presence. We're all pulling for you!
Thanks people, I need so much support right now. I am worried that I'm sleepwalking into a quick D.
Gonna grab a quick rest, jump in the shower, have an anti- anxiety pill the Dr gave me, start cooking a great meal for the kids ready for when they arrive.
It is such a shame that W wants to destroy the relationship, marridge, family, and home that we had worked so hard to build together for 25 years. I'm 100% sure we could sort it all out and make it better than ever if only she was willing to try even a tiny bit.
I've made a nice meal. Should I offer her a taste?
No. That is pursuit. You need to let her go.
W arrived with kids and a friend. I had made a nice meal for the kids & I that I know W loves but I didn't offer her any.
W went into the bedroom to collect her clothes that I had sorted ready to take. I said 'do you have happy memories of being in here?'. She said she wasn't thinking about it. I said 'thousands of happy memories'. I said it in a nice calm way.
I also said 'I'm sorry that you feel you need to do this' (taking things from the house) in a calm voice which I think went down well.
W looked around the house and said she was very impressed with all the changes I'd made. It's a lot, lot better than when she had left. She noticed everything that was different. She took some family photos off a small table, she very nearly cried doing so and she looked at me for a while in the eyes, then the same again a few times. We shared a moment. I felt like going to give her a hug but I didn't, I was having hugs with the kids. She slowly cleared the table and I gave her help moving it out of the house.
She came back later to collect the kids but they were not ready to go so W walked off for a bit rather than go back into the house. She came back and and thanked me for earlier.
I then said that if she had a night out planned then perhaps the kids could stay overnight with me. She seemed surprised that I would offer to do that - that will be a 180. W said she was going out on Fri night. I said that she didn't have to give me the details (I already knew them LOL). That would be another 180.
W said the texting app on her phone is still not working so will phone me for a short call. W reminded me I'm due to see her and kids on Fri morning at the school. I said there's a local event on Sunday that I would like to take the kids too. W said she had also wanted to take them there so W offered to meet me there with the kids and said she might stay for a while.
W went into the bedroom to collect her clothes that I had sorted ready to take. I said 'do you have happy memories of being in here?'. She said she wasn't thinking about it. I said 'thousands of happy memories'. I said it in a nice calm way.
I think most of the rest was fine.....but like....why with this? It just comes off as needy/insecure/unattractive.
It sounds like you are working to make improvements toward being more self-secure.....but I think you need to keep working on it.
I then said that if she had a night out planned then perhaps the kids could stay overnight with me. She seemed surprised that I would offer to do that - that will be a 180. W said she was going out on Fri night. I said that she didn't have to give me the details (I already knew them LOL). That would be another 180.
I still find it weird to be offering to be more of a babysitting service than trying to come up with a fair/equitable schedule....I think that should be your goal.
for the most part, i think you came across as weak... the "memories" comment... commenting on whether or not she had planned a night out... the "you don't have to give me the details" remark... "i'm sorry you feel you need to do this," no bueno!!! you are too attached... the less you say, the better--especially if you are going to make these types of comments...
for the most part, i think you came across as weak... the "memories" comment... commenting on whether or not she had planned a night out... the "you don't have to give me the details" remark... "i'm sorry you feel you need to do this," no bueno!!! you are too attached... the less you say, the better--especially if you are going to make these types of comments...
Before leaving, W seemed to think that I had been controlling and insecure. I hadn't been at all, I had just wanted us to make some time together because we'd only had 1 night out in 6 months. Of course she could just have been using poor excuses but for me to say after we split that I'd take the kids if she has a night out planned and I didn't need to know the details, it was a total 180. I was self-confident enough to let go and not be bothered what she does, so I think I seemed less needy to her. I effectively took a step-back. Strangely enough she then told me the details of what was planned even-though I had said it was none of my business.
Hi David,
Im sorry pal, but that makes uncomfortable reading that.
There is a reason why I messaged you earlier and a reason that most people after your last post are saying you look weak and needy.
I advised not to do things to get a reaction - so you ask "do you have happy memories of being in here??" - seriously are you really that bothered? She is leaving you.
In reality, the question is asked because it would be a straw to grab at if she says... "yes i have some lovely memories" - then you get a little bit of hope and the spiral of nonsense continues. Life is short pal - stop wasting it trying to avoid the pain. let her go. If its meant to be then she will come back. But you wont let her go because your scared she wont come back. Let it go and become a better version of you and you might surprise yourself.
If you met someone who quite clearly didn't want to be with you.. would you try the tactics you are using on your wife now? - if you did they would be out the door like a flash. The only reason you are doing it is because you think she is going to snap out of this if you follow what you read on here.
Our job is to help you get your life in gear.
Its important you listen to what you are being told if you want your situation to improve. This is NOT going to be pretty, it will take a long time, but there is a way to move to a better place than you are now.. with or without a partner.
for the most part, i think you came across as weak... the "memories" comment... commenting on whether or not she had planned a night out... the "you don't have to give me the details" remark... "i'm sorry you feel you need to do this," no bueno!!! you are too attached... the less you say, the better--especially if you are going to make these types of comments...
Before leaving, W seemed to think that I had been controlling and insecure. I hadn't been at all, I had just wanted us to make some time together because we'd only had 1 night out in 6 months. Of course she could just have been using poor excuses but for me to say after we split that I'd take the kids if she has a night out planned and I didn't need to know the details, it was a total 180. I was self-confident enough to let go and not be bothered what she does, so I think I seemed less needy to her. I effectively took a step-back. Strangely enough she then told me the details of what was planned even-though I had said it was none of my business.
I sent the message above BEFORE reading this. #mystic
DavidUK I really like this line...
I was self confident enough to let go!
I still find it weird to be offering to be more of a babysitting service than trying to come up with a fair/equitable schedule....I think that should be your goal.
I've done nearly all the childcare since the kids were born and with very little help. W then heavily restricted it when she left. I think it was because the kids wanted to come home. At the moment, I see them on a particular day and ask for other days if there is a local event etc. that I would like to take them too. I also go to all of their school events. W today asked if I'd like more days so there is some progress.
for the most part, i think you came across as weak... the "memories" comment... commenting on whether or not she had planned a night out... the "you don't have to give me the details" remark... "i'm sorry you feel you need to do this," no bueno!!! you are too attached... the less you say, the better--especially if you are going to make these types of comments...
Before leaving, W seemed to think that I had been controlling and insecure. I hadn't been at all, I had just wanted us to make some time together because we'd only had 1 night out in 6 months. Of course she could just have been using poor excuses but for me to say after we split that I'd take the kids if she has a night out planned and I didn't need to know the details, it was a total 180. I was self-confident enough to let go and not be bothered what she does, so I think I seemed less needy to her. I effectively took a step-back. Strangely enough she then told me the details of what was planned even-though I had said it was none of my business.
I sent the message above BEFORE reading this. #mystic
By this "Before leaving, W seemed to think that I had been controlling and insecure." I meant before we had split-up not tonight.
That's why me saying I'd have the kids overnight if she wanted a night out and me saying she didn't have to give me details of where she was going was a 180 and from a position of self-confidence letting go. She thought I wasn't bothered what she did. She then told me the details.
Hi David,
Im sorry pal, but that makes uncomfortable reading that.
There is a reason why I messaged you earlier and a reason that most people after your last post are saying you look weak and needy.
I advised not to do things to get a reaction - so you ask "do you have happy memories of being in here??" - seriously are you really that bothered? She is leaving you.
In reality, the question is asked because it would be a straw to grab at if she says... "yes i have some lovely memories" - then you get a little bit of hope and the spiral of nonsense continues. Life is short pal - stop wasting it trying to avoid the pain. let her go. If its meant to be then she will come back. But you wont let her go because your scared she wont come back. Let it go and become a better version of you and you might surprise yourself.
If you met someone who quite clearly didn't want to be with you.. would you try the tactics you are using on your wife now? - if you did they would be out the door like a flash. The only reason you are doing it is because you think she is going to snap out of this if you follow what you read on here.
Our job is to help you get your life in gear.
Its important you listen to what you are being told if you want your situation to improve. This is NOT going to be pretty, it will take a long time, but there is a way to move to a better place than you are now.. with or without a partner.
Whoa Benito this really landed on me and my sitch also...if I could ask could you please take a look at my sitch and chime in I think I could use your advise?
I still find it weird to be offering to be more of a babysitting service than trying to come up with a fair/equitable schedule....I think that should be your goal.
I've done nearly all the childcare since the kids were born and with very little help. W then heavily restricted it when she left. I think it was because the kids wanted to come home. At the moment, I see them on a particular day and ask for other days if there is a local event etc. that I would like to take them too. I also go to all of their school events. W today asked if I'd like more days so there is some progress.
Yes, I understand.
But the situation you have now puts you in a position where you are asking her every time for the opportunity to see your kids. It automatically puts you at a position of weakness and puts pressure onto her. "Does he want the kids...or is it a ploy to see me?" If you have a regular, fixed schedule it balances that power dynamic, I think.
Yes, I understand.
But the situation you have now puts you in a position where you are asking her every time for the opportunity to see your kids. It automatically puts you at a position of weakness and puts pressure onto her. "Does he want the kids...or is it a ploy to see me?" If you have a regular, fixed schedule it balances that power dynamic, I think.
Initially, W had heavily restricted my time with kids (but that also gave me the opportunity to make the house look much better and try to get my head around understanding what has happened etc.). I knew W would struggle before too long even with the full-time help or her parents. She has now started asking me about seeing the kids more (to suit herself).
W called and offered to meet me at an event on Sunday with the kids that I had wanted to take the kids too. I'm guessing that she will walk-off and leave them with me but she will still be around nearby so the kids will be split at times.
I will be seeing W at a school event tomorrow. I might do it so that she arrives first and I don't sit next to her.
W then put youngest on the phone to talk. Youngest then asked if I wanted to speak to 'mummy'. I said 'Nah that's OK'.
for the most part, i think you came across as weak... the "memories" comment... commenting on whether or not she had planned a night out... the "you don't have to give me the details" remark... "i'm sorry you feel you need to do this," no bueno!!! you are too attached... the less you say, the better--especially if you are going to make these types of comments...
Before leaving, W seemed to think that I had been controlling and insecure. I hadn't been at all, I had just wanted us to make some time together because we'd only had 1 night out in 6 months. Of course she could just have been using poor excuses but for me to say after we split that I'd take the kids if she has a night out planned and I didn't need to know the details, it was a total 180. I was self-confident enough to let go and not be bothered what she does, so I think I seemed less needy to her. I effectively took a step-back. Strangely enough she then told me the details of what was planned even-though I had said it was none of my business.
Before leaving, W seemed to think that I had been controlling and insecure. I hadn't been at all, I had just wanted us to make some time together because we'd only had 1 night out in 6 months. Of course she could just have been using poor excuses but for me to say after we split that I'd take the kids if she has a night out planned and I didn't need to know the details, it was a total 180. I was self-confident enough to let go and not be bothered what she does, so I think I seemed less needy to her. I effectively took a step-back. Strangely enough she then told me the details of what was planned even-though I had said it was none of my business.
the 180 would have been you saying nothing... there is no way that comment, "you don't have to tell me the details," comes across as strong and confident... UNLESS you say it her as she is about to give you the details... when she "strangely enough" told you the details is when you could have said it, and only then... otherwise you do come across as needy and controlling... by the time she began to tell you the details, and you responded that it was none of your business--the remark had lost its effect...
DavidUK, i am sharing with you my perspective as someone who walked away from my M and then returned... my want is to help you stand for your M, while you do everything you can to give yourself the best possible chance of saving your M... detach and GAL to the Nth degree...
--artista
Hi David,
Sorry you find yourself in this situation we all know so well. I have been away from the boards for some time doing a flyby. I skimmed your posts.
If I have any advise for you, it is to become the best dad you can. Do not let anyone, or anything stand in your way of that.
"What is best for your kids is best for you."
Let this statement guide you though this difficult period of your life.
Your children need you involved in their lives just as much as they need their mother. Get 50/50 parenting in place.
Focus on being DAD right now. Take care of you and your amazing children. You will not regret it.
As far as WAW, you have no control of her. You do have control of how you interact and respond. Change the way you interact and that forces a change in the relationship.
This is a great time to learn how to be an attractive man. Confidence, respect, humor....this list goes on and on.
[color:#3366FF][i]tthere is no way that comment, "you don't have to tell me the details," comes across as strong and confident... UNLESS you say it her as she is about to give you the details... when she "strangely enough" told you the details is when you could have said it, and only then... otherwise you do come across as needy and controlling... by the time she began to tell you the details, and you responded that it was none of your business--the remark had lost its effect...
DavidUK, i am sharing with you my perspective as someone who walked away from my M and then returned... my want is to help you stand for your M, while you do everything you can to give yourself the best possible chance of saving your M... detach and GAL to the Nth degree...
--artista
Yes, you have it right. W said a few words starting to tell me what it was she going to do that night, but I interrupted and said she didn't have to tell me the details, and then she told me all the details.
I very much appreciate your help. Many, many thanks!
Hi David,
Sorry you find yourself in this situation we all know so well. I have been away from the boards for some time doing a flyby. I skimmed your posts.
If I have any advise for you, it is to become the best dad you can. Do not let anyone, or anything stand in your way of that.
"What is best for your kids is best for you."
Let this statement guide you though this difficult period of your life.
Your children need you involved in their lives just as much as they need their mother. Get 50/50 parenting in place.
Focus on being DAD right now. Take care of you and your amazing children. You will not regret it.
As far as WAW, you have no control of her. You do have control of how you interact and respond. Change the way you interact and that forces a change in the relationship.
This is a great time to learn how to be an attractive man. Confidence, respect, humor....this list goes on and on.
Thanks Ready2Change. I am getting better as to how I interact with W but I still need to learn more.
When W left she had said the kids would be fine. On Wednesday, kids let it slip that youngest has started asking to phone me. W hadn't wanted me to know. I think W has now realised they are missing me more and more each week. I have been their main carer since they were born and I think W may have some resentment towards me for that.
As for me, l have confidence going to talk to anyone anywhere but the people I know locally also know W so I don't want to say too much to them at the moment. I need to get a social life outside of that. However, at the moment I find it hard to go for a walk without having to hide a few tears at times.
I want my W and family back but a massive problem is that W is so, so stubborn and rarely ever says sorry or admits mistakes. Her character isn't someone who will say they want to come back even if she does... and that was before she changed. She is also living with her parents who I know will be urging her to leave me. There are so many factors against me but I'm still going to try.
Forgive me if I missed it in the thread, but why do you believe her parents would be urging her to leave you?
Forgive me if I missed it in the thread, but why do you believe her parents would be urging her to leave you?
I'm into arts, culture etc. W parents have no sense of humour whatsoever and are not interested in anything apart from their daughter and grandchildren. They are now all living in the same house. They also stand to gain financially...!
W mother recently said to my mother "I would never have married your son" and she has said much the same thing to me complaining that I should never ask where my W goes or has been. I now know where my W has been... taking cash and hiding it at their house in advance of a D.
I know that W is to take the kids away very early August for a week. I have a feeling she will start D during this time hence why she will be away.
Is there a good way that I could ask her not to rush into starting D?
Hi again David
We seem to be both having the same experiences, and waking up early too, I’ve had very bad anxiety attacks every morning for two weeks and since my W filed the D petition on Wednesday they have got worse.
My W is also stubborn and doesn’t ever see she is wrong. I suspect that she is having some doubts having realised the huge ramifications of what she has started, but won’t back down due to pride - lots of narcissistic traits are starting to become clear to me from her side.
We’ve got to really follow the dB rules and make ourselves better men that our W’s would not want to not be with, but it’s going to be so very hard.
Stay strong as much as you can
Just to add... I know that W took the marriage certificate and gave it to her legal person. You need that certificate to get a D.
The marriage certificate was signed by my Dad and that signature is all I have left from him as he later died. W had said she would return the certificate to me but she hasn't. Do you think I should ask her for it to be returned?
Is there a good way to ask wife not to rush into D?
This comment alone says alot about where your head is.
You have no say in it. She is doing what feels right for HER. NOT YOU. This is NOT a business deal where you are trying to convince someone to buy something?!
Its a romantic relationship. Where 2 people love being around each other... where they help each other grow.
She is telling you that she feel like you controlled her.
You are controlling AGAIN.. by trying to ask us what to say to make her not go through with it.
There is a reason she is leaving..
And untill you start to get your head into place it needs to be - you are just going to spin your wheel and end up another statistic.
So you decide.
Thanks Benito. we will be together in about an hour at a school event.
Should I sit next to her?
Should I leave before her?
Thanks Benito. we will be together in about an hour at a school event.
Should I sit next to her?
Should I leave before her?
Putting aside the turmoil you are going through, because I know it hurts.. so I totally sympathise with you.
But in reality you are asking strangers on the the internet on what you should be saying and doing to your OWN wife of 25 years!
There is difference asking for some advice such as "should I send D paperwork back" etc.. as to asking "should I offer her a taste of this food I have cooked?", "should she sit next to me?" etc..
What do you think? its your wife! you tell us.
The reason your flapping a bit, is because you dont know THIS version of her, so want some advise and that is fair enough. BUT... as I said at the very beginning.. you are asking this advice to try and make the situation better and turn her around. At this point it shouldn't matter she has gone. You need to turn your attention inwards... totally inwards and do what feels correct for you.. NOT a display of "look at me I have changed" for her benefit.
I have been through this myself. Wanted to kill myself and spent thousands on councillors and alot more
My very best friend is going through the same now and the patterns are nearly exactly the same in each case.
You have grown so much in a husband and father role - that you dont even know who you are anymore.
When you first met your wife did you come on the internet asking for advice on how to make her laugh/smile? No you didn't because it was probably natural.
Your current situation now is unnatural and awkward because its turned into a business deal with none of that happy romance anymore - the only way you are going to get that back is being honest with yourself about the gravity of your situation.
Most people are here to avoid the pain of being alone rather than man up and go though the painful journey of rebuilding ourselves from scratch - which is hard and painful - but it can be done.
I have a WAW that came back and explained all this to me. I remember buying her flowers and random bits of affection - and it did not make one bit of difference - It turned her stomach. Everything you think is right is probably wrong as she wants you out of her life. So the ONLY way forward.. is controlling the ONLY thing you have available to you and that is you. Not her.
Stop holding onto hope (at the moment) as its going to be your undoing. Your behaviour and actions at the moment are being interpreted by her in a totally different way than you will ever believe.
She needs space space space and you need you you you
Thanks everyone.
I just got back... We did a polite joke at first. I noticed that she couldn't look me in the eyes at all. I thought it was because she wanted to hide that she was sad and/or guilty. She seemed agitated with the kids. I have noticed that she is getting more grumpy with them at times. The kids seemed a bit sad too. I think they are now really missing us a lot as a family.
W was packing a lot of stuff away (long story). I asked "Would you like any help?" I knew that she would not be happy with me if I didn't offer and I thought she'd refuse if I asked so I was in a no-win situation. She said no but I could to help by taking the youngest into the school, so I did. W said she would be a little late going into the school for the event due to her putting stuff away. She was, and she stayed by the door (where it was cooler) rather than sit with the other parents inc. me.
School kids were given awards. One was for honesty in everything they did, another for being a good actor going from evil monster to very happy person within a moment. I had to laugh. Another award was for perseverance and the award giver said how it was the most important word in learning.
I noticed that W looked sad. The happy fake smiles she always does had gone. She looked troubled. She didn't look dressed for work as if she was having the day off. My guess is that she's going to a legal person today to start D or a day with A (if so).
At the end, I could see W leaving in the corner of my eye. I walked up the road and she stopped the car. She must have gone to the car very quickly. She said she would call me about Sunday, then said no need and just confirmed what we have already arranged. I mentioned there was an outstanding bill (that she had said she would pay weeks ago but hasn't). W claimed she would phone right away to pay it all off but then she said it might take a few days for them to confirm it as paid. Ummm... I don't believe her.
I looked as good as possible, genuinely smiled, not much else I could have done. There's something major going on, I can sense it. I think she's going for D asap. That would be a problem as there wouldn't be enough time to sort herself out. I can tell that she is changing. When she left 2 months ago, she was all smiles as if everything was going to be great for her. Now she looks sad as if reality is just starting. Knowing her, she won't change her mind even if she wanted to do so because she is so stubborn and her parents are willing her on.
I knew that she would not be happy with me if I didn't offer and I thought she'd refuse if I asked so I was in a no-win situation
Wow.. really?
You helped because she wouldnt be happy??
Where is your dignity? Your helping your wife pack her things to leave you!
You arent getting any respect from her acting like this
Thanks everyone.
I just got back... We did a polite joke at first. I noticed that she couldn't look me in the eyes at all. I thought it was because she wanted to hide that she was sad and/or guilty. She seemed agitated with the kids. I have noticed that she is getting more grumpy with them at times. The kids seemed a bit sad too. I think they are now really missing us a lot as a family.
W was packing a lot of stuff away (long story). I asked "Would you like any help?" I knew that she would not be happy with me if I didn't offer and I thought she'd refuse if I asked so I was in a no-win situation. She said no but I could to help by taking the youngest into the school, so I did. W said she would be a little late going into the school for the event due to her putting stuff away. She was, and she stayed by the door (where it was cooler) rather than sit with the other parents inc. me.
School kids were given awards. One was for honesty in everything they did, another for being a good actor going from evil monster to very happy person within a moment. I had to laugh. Another award was for perseverance and the award giver said how it was the most important word in learning.
I noticed that W looked sad. The happy fake smiles she always does had gone. She looked troubled. She didn't look dressed for work as if she was having the day off. My guess is that she's going to a legal person today to start D or a day with A (if so).
At the end, I could see W leaving in the corner of my eye. I walked up the road and she stopped the car. She must have gone to the car very quickly. She said she would call me about Sunday, then said no need and just confirmed what we have already arranged. I mentioned there was an outstanding bill (that she had said she would pay weeks ago but hasn't). W claimed she would phone right away to pay it all off but then she said it might take a few days for them to confirm it as paid. Ummm... I don't believe her.
I looked as good as possible, genuinely smiled, not much else I could have done. There's something major going on, I can sense it. I think she's going for D asap. That would be a problem as there wouldn't be enough time to sort herself out. I can tell that she is changing. When she left 2 months ago, she was all smiles as if everything was going to be great for her. Now she looks sad as if reality is just starting. Knowing her, she won't change her mind even if she wanted to do so because she is so stubborn and her parents are willing her on.
I notice that you spend a lot of your posts trying to read her mind and guess whats going on.
I feel like it is fueling you to make decisions that are based on these conjectures rather than facts. I think it is putting wayyyyyy too much of your focus on her.
I think maybe it would be better to try to stop with so much of this mindreading and really consider only concrete details and facts you know to be true.
Thanks everyone.
I just got back... We did a polite joke at first. I noticed that she couldn't look me in the eyes at all. I thought it was because she wanted to hide that she was sad and/or guilty. She seemed agitated with the kids. I have noticed that she is getting more grumpy with them at times. The kids seemed a bit sad too. I think they are now really missing us a lot as a family.
W was packing a lot of stuff away (long story). I asked "Would you like any help?" I knew that she would not be happy with me if I didn't offer and I thought she'd refuse if I asked so I was in a no-win situation. She said no but I could to help by taking the youngest into the school, so I did. W said she would be a little late going into the school for the event due to her putting stuff away. She was, and she stayed by the door (where it was cooler) rather than sit with the other parents inc. me.
School kids were given awards. One was for honesty in everything they did, another for being a good actor going from evil monster to very happy person within a moment. I had to laugh. Another award was for perseverance and the award giver said how it was the most important word in learning.
I noticed that W looked sad. The happy fake smiles she always does had gone. She looked troubled. She didn't look dressed for work as if she was having the day off. My guess is that she's going to a legal person today to start D or a day with A (if so).
At the end, I could see W leaving in the corner of my eye. I walked up the road and she stopped the car. She must have gone to the car very quickly. She said she would call me about Sunday, then said no need and just confirmed what we have already arranged. I mentioned there was an outstanding bill (that she had said she would pay weeks ago but hasn't). W claimed she would phone right away to pay it all off but then she said it might take a few days for them to confirm it as paid. Ummm... I don't believe her.
I looked as good as possible, genuinely smiled, not much else I could have done. There's something major going on, I can sense it. I think she's going for D asap. That would be a problem as there wouldn't be enough time to sort herself out. I can tell that she is changing. When she left 2 months ago, she was all smiles as if everything was going to be great for her. Now she looks sad as if reality is just starting. Knowing her, she won't change her mind even if she wanted to do so because she is so stubborn and her parents are willing her on.
I notice that you spend a lot of your posts trying to read her mind and guess whats going on.
I feel like it is fueling you to make decisions that are based on these conjectures rather than facts. I think it is putting wayyyyyy too much of your focus on her.
I think maybe it would be better to try to stop with so much of this mindreading and really consider only concrete details and facts you know to be true.
To be fair... this is spot on, but nothing he has not been told in posts before this unfortunately.
There needs to be a change in mentality on his part or this is being to be a long painful road.
It was a no win situation at the school because I went to greet the kids then noticed other people, then finally noticed W with a lot of school equipment to pack. I thought to myself 'whatever I say or don't say will be wrong' - I know the people would have slagged me off to W if I didn't offer to help her packing the school equipment. W would have also used it to help justify to those people why she left me. Those people are mutual friends so I didn't want them to take sides.
Kids told me that W parents had left for a few days. That will have given W time to herself to think, and requiring her to look after the kids by herself (which she has rarely done and she hadn't respected me for doing it). It might help to explain why W is now looking increasingly sad and troubled but I'm expecting her to start D proceedings asap so it could be that too. For someone that had left and said she was much happier, she doesn't now look it.
The way I look at it - I'm now far more attractive (lost a lot of weight, better clothes, better hair) than the me she left, she is very impressed with the major changes I've made to the house, I have done a major personal achievement, I've done a great job raising the kids without much help, the kids miss me more and more. I have learned a lot of things I could do to make M better than it has ever been. I would be willing to try to forgive her.
However, W needs time and space to get her head together and deal with her own issues but I know she is very busy and has pressure from her parents who she now lives with. My main concern is that W will want a very quick D so she won't have the time and space required for DB.
"When you become responsible for yourself you have the confidence to "set them free." Your happiness and your life is all about you handling it the best for you. When you let someone else dictate how your life will be run then you are a victim and that isn't attractive. The DB techniques are all about doing healthy things for yourself. You are in control of your thoughts, feelings and actions. So when your world is collapsing around you, how attractive is it to be in control and moving forward? That's the calm, assertive energy you want to give off. It's powerful. "-Coach
Coach got his wife back. He did everything right and it worked. This is about you and how you handle it.
Your focus is on your wife. Change your focus to you and your kids.
Change your frame from "How should I do this or that" to impress my wife to "What is the right thing to do?" Should I let my wife take away my parenting time with my children? How do I get a 50/50 parenting plan in place?
Regards,
R2C
Just to add... all I can do is work on me, and I have been doing that. I've not been doing it to get W back. It is to get 'me' back and better than ever but I do know that W happens to like my changes.
Regardless, I know what I do won't be enough for DB. W now needs time and space to make changes of her own. Based upon what I know, it's safe to assume that her plan had been to get a D asap after she has finished hiding enough of her money. I can see that W is changing but I'm sure the plan isn't because her parents are helping. I doubt W will get the time and space she needs before a D.
She HAS made changes of her own david..
She is hiding money and being secretive with her phone because she wants to divorce you and have a new life.
Why are you talking like she wont have time before the divorve to clear her head? There isnt an evil clock ticking down that makes in love couples split up. She can choose to end it all whenever she wants. But her choice was to leave you.
do you know she isnt having an affair with someone else?
You think tidying the house, losing a bit of weight, and having a haircut will change that??
If their daughter was happy why on earth would they want her to divorve her husband??
None of this makes sense to me at all and I know this subject like the back of hand
If your just a bit out of touch with reality due to the loss of your family and future that's fine.. but your posts are giving off warning signals to me.
.
Benito,
The house had become a very major issue in our marriage and I've now made massive changes. She came back into the house a few days ago for the first time and genuinely really liked all the changes I've made. It has gone from a place neither of us had wanted to live to looking great. It is a huge transformation.
We had very little support from others for childcare and only had 1 night out in months. W also failed exams she needed as part of her job and blamed me. I had also wrongly assumed her parents knew W had failed and W wasn't happy they found out from me. Everything all went wrong at once from car problems, to appliances failing, to child ill etc. W became an abusive nightmare. It became overwhelming and I packed some things to leave but she wanted me to stay (I realise now that she'd been planning to leave anyway).
I had let myself go for years but I now look far, far better than the me who she left, better than the me who she married. W has noticed the huge change and given me great compliments. She seems jealous of other women taking an interest in me.
Her parents have not wanted us to be together since the day we met. Their life revolves around W and our kids but they don't see them very often as they live far away. They bought a second home locally that they really struggle to afford and now they are all living there together. It was a very easy move for W to make rather than sort out any M issues.
I have no firm evidence that W is having an A but I can't be 100% certain. She would never admit to it if she had. She wouldn't want to hurt me by saying, she wouldn't want people to think bad of her, she thinks I'd never be able to trust her ever again etc.. None of our friends think she is. She worked during the day, hardly ever went out in the evenings, and we spent every weekend together.
W is only just starting to realise that her new life isn't as great as she thought it would be. However, I still expect W to look to get a quick D as soon as her money has been hidden.
Hi David
Regarding your friends telling you they dont think W would have an A. If she can hide it from you then she can definetly hide it from them. I had quite a few people I confided In who swore that she would not have an A and said she is not that kind of person. I went to my W Aunty (bad move as it’s her family) She always told me I was paranoid and W would never do that. A close friend of W who was trying to help us get back on track with M promised me that nothing was happening.
Guess what! She was! EA/PA .And she lied to everyone. As a result when she left me she cut off contact with them.
You want to take hope in others words and keep denying it.
I obviously cant say for certain your W is. but just be ready for it!
Hi Rawpain,
W showed signs of A but I have no proof. I'm sure that none of the people we both know have any knowledge of it if that is the case. It would be someone from where W works (small team) or studies (small group) so hardly anyone would know if so.
Steve85 said this on another thread:
"Remember most WAWs (not sure about WAHs) have been plotting their escape for two years prior to BD."
I've been thinking that my W might have been doing so on/off for 2 years. 2 years ago to the month her parents bought a house locally and left it empty since then. My Mum has been saying she thinks they bought it so that W could move into it any-time she wants. I recently found out that they had put it up for sale again last year when W & I had a great holiday but then took it off the market again soon after. They were decorating the empty house in the months before W left me, and W had been taking things to the house to store there and taking cash to hide in advance of D.
I'm meeting W and kids at an event today. Any tips on greeting W?
I'm meeting W and kids at an event today. Any tips on greeting W?
You want.a tip to help you achieve a goal..
What is that goal?
Hi Benito, my goal is to save our marriage.
Her leaving is the biggest wake-up call of my life. I have learned such a lot since we split (and I still have a lot to learn). I hope she will give us a chance.
Today, I'm meeting W who will be with the kids at a certain time and place where there's an open-air event with food stalls etc. Is it better if she arrives first and waits for me?
My plan is to get some food near to the start. I know she would refuse if I offered to get her any (so I won't offer) but she'd might offer to buy me some - not sure if I should accept (i did last time) or say I will buy my own. Think I will buy my own this time.
I expect her to leave the kids with me at some point and for her say 'this is your time to be with the kids not us' (it hurts when she says that but now I'm feeling better prepared to expect it) and for her to then walk off looking at things on her own and talk to our mutual friends. Kids will then get annoyed as they will see her around and want to go over to see her etc.
Ok.. thats fine and why people come here.
You say earlier that these changes are for you.
But yet.. above you reference these changes as the reason you hope she will give you another chance. Which confirms what we all expect you are doing. Which is convincing yourself that if you improve you are going to save your marriage.
The changes you have made are on a surface level. Yes they are changes .. but love and marriage is not about surface level love.
Its a deeper issue based on trust, safety, common goals and compassion.
It seems at this stage.. that you are struggling to understand that these emotions in your marriage have been deteriorating for some time. You wife has most likely checked out on all of the above - so when she sees you making these small changes, she will comment as she sees you makimg the effort - but on a deeper level you are not making a difference.
You are trying to play a game when you dont know the rules.
When people say you need to let them go to rebuild the true foundations of a relationship they mean it. It takes years not weeks of being alone and losing everything to enable you to go through the self reflection and growth needed to be the person you need to be.
I personally cant say anymore on this matter as you seem to believe things are going to change because you feel differently. This isnt the case unfortunately.
As someone who speaks the hundreds of people on this matter and has been through it myself and had a successful ending.. i advise this because its not far wrong.. please listen and try to stop holding onto quick fixes to avoid the pain.
Hi Benito,
The changes I've made were for my own benefit and for me to become more attractive to the possibility of a new partner and a completely new life.
If W notices enough to help consider giving us a chance then that's a bonus but that wasn't my main intention. I knew I had to make changes regardless. I had started doing them slowly before W left. The split has given me the time and space to do that quicker.
I need some advice about how to handle the situation today. I feel confident when I meet her.
You are putting way too much energy into this interaction. If you get there early and are hungry then go buy some food. If you wait until she arrives then you can offer but if she declines then go get some for yourself and let her do whatever she wants. If she offers and your hungry then take her up on the offer. Buying food or not buying food is not going to make or break your sitch. I would focus more on being confident and presenting yourself as a happy man.
Please start a new thread. You have reached the 100 reply/posting limit for this thread. Thanks!
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2802974#Post2802974