I hate that I'm here, but thanks for having me. I've been reading this forum for over a week now and have started reading DR. Any time I feel completely hopeless, which is at least twice a day, reading this forum gives me some solace. My BD was in August 2017. I just found out about DB a week ago. Is it too late for me? Here's my story, as short as I can make it.
My wife and I met in college, lived together for years, then had six months of a long-distance relationship before I proposed. We were married in 2006. I'm 40. She's 39. We have two beautiful Ds, 4 and 7. Like a lot of you, we had what I thought was a great marriage, in fact, one that many of our friends and family members admired. When our first daughter turned one, my wife and I decided that she would leave her full-time job to be a full-time mom. I found a higher paying job in another city. We moved and she continued to work remotely part time while caring for the children. Neither of us were happy living in this new place, so we made an effort to return to where we lived previously. That led me to taking a higher paying job, which allowed her to cut her work-from-home hours further to care for our now two children.
But the job made me miserable. It's not what I want to do and the organization is completely dysfunctional. I brought that home with me. I was short, overly critical, and generally not a fun guy to be around a lot of the time. I now see that all of our energy went into our children and we left our relationship rot. Both of us. Several years ago my wife also lost her mother and younger brother unexpectedly and we suffered through a miscarriage in December 2016. I don't know if these issues factor in to where we are now, but I mention them because they were major, negative milestones for us.
I discovered my wife was carrying on a texting relationship with a divorced friend of ours in July 2017. I discovered them texting one evening, thought nothing of it, but then I got curious and decided to look at her phone to see the conversation only to find the texts were deleted. I confronted her. She told me it was just friendly banter. I told her it had to stop and she hurt me. She said it would stop. But it didn't. A month later I got the ILYBIDLY BD.
She carried on the EA until October--as I vacillated between sadness, despair, anger, hope, and pursuit--when she finally agreed to end the EA and "try" counseling. Her heart wasn't in it, and I was still too hurt and angry to make it work. I tried, though, and she claims she did, but it didn't seem like it to me. She did not like that the point of all of the talking and touching was to get us to have sex again. I didn't like the therapist. She did. But then she abruptly changed her mind in March of this year and said we needed to find another therapist. After weeks of procrastination, she told me that she didn't want to work with another couples counselor. "We tried it. It didn't work. I don't think I can get those feelings back."
Of course, I have done all of the wrong things. Begged, cried way too much, asked about the children, sent her articles on marriage, wrote passionate emails, forwarded our loving email banter from the past, pressured her, asked why, asked her out, said ILY, stopped saying ILY, started saying ILY again ... you get the picture.
Since I discovered this site I have begun reading DR, attempting to detach and 180 and laying down some boundaries.
On Wednesday, after contemplating it for a month, W signed a one-year lease for a 2BR townhouse near our marital home. She tells me that she doesn't know when she is moving out. She tells me that she doesn't know what she is going to tell our Ds. She tells me that we have grown apart; that she doesn't love me anymore, and too much "stuff" has happened in our relationship. That's all the details I can get.
She doesn't talk to her friends about this. She chats online and texts with one friend who lives states away from us, but that is all. Her friends don't know. Her family doesn't know. She refuses to even consider IC (though I am going).
I have be DBing for a week. I bought some new kicks and clothes yesterday. It felt great for a while, and she even noticed. I know ... don't read into it. But I still like the shoes!
So, dear wise counsel and veterans, is it too late for me? This has been going on for year. A year of me doing everything wrong.
The most confusing part for me is that we get along great. We talk. We laugh. We enjoy each other's company. We don't fight. We are a team. We are friends. Why does she refuse to work on us? Is it cake-eating?
And talk about putting the cart before the horse! She has signed a lease but we haven't discussed custody, finances, or anything that typically should come before this drastic step. It's illogical, but I guess women don't think logically.
Until she moves out, how do I DB successfully? Can I take the kids out to dinner on my own (we have always done things as a family)? Or will that be viewed as me being spiteful? I want her to see some of the consequences of a separation, but it's hard for me to do it 1) because our young girls are clueless and 2) because I don't want it to appear that I am being a jerk. I know ... excuses.
I'll stop rambling now. Is it too late for me? Are her actions those of a WAW, a MLC, or something else? Is she just done? It doesn't add up for me at all.
Thanks for listening. Love to all of you who are going through this horrible time in your lives.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Will- welcome to the board and sorry you are here. It is never too late- look at Sandis rules- NEVER QUIT. You are doing the right thing by reading DR and DBing. You will meet some incedible people here with wonderful advice.read as much as you can. Get familiarized with DBing techniques, detaching , validation and Sandis rules. Reread daily if necessary. What you have described in your initial post is common. Read lots and post often you are in for one he77 of a ride. Buckle up! Good luck on your journey!
It is not too late. You're going to have a hard time with this, but detaching AKA letting her go, will be the best thing for you and your marriage. Get your mind and heart stronger. Be a good dad. Become a better person.
If she is laughing and enjoying life with you without all the parts of you she doesn't want, she is cake eating. Are you willing to just be her "friend" no matter what? If she moves out, if she finds another guy?
Your girls won't be clueless forever. If mommy wants out, you don't keep playing happy family. She chose it, now she deals with that consequence. She might say she's done, but don't believe anything she says and only half of what she does.
When she talks about her feelings give her your full attention. Listen. Validate. Her feelings are her feelings. They won't make sense. Don't try to make sense of them.
First no it is not too late
I have been at this for two years and am a better man and father for it
Your focus will be on self improvement for a while as you cannot work on the relationship when she is not invested in it as you saw in your counseling
Good job on your new look a good first step
Like many of us here we have seen and heard so many of the same the same words and behaviors and worse
Second women are logical but people in crisis are not
Your w is in crisis she has experienced deaths of loved ones and a miscarriage and has been involved in at least one EA but just be warned you usually only know a tiny fraction of what she has been hiding from you
Remember actions speak a lot louder than words
She signed a lease but has not moved out
She says ILYBNILWY but has not filed for d
You should see a lawyer to know your rights re custody and finances
Do not initiate that discussion but you should be prepared for it
Now tell us what are you doing to improve you as a man for yourself first and hopefully down the road for a new relationship
D78 - sorry you find yourself here - its an awful place to be; I hope you find comfort in the fact that you are not alone and your story is incredibly familiar.
The words and behaviours you see and hear are exactly the same; I could have written your story myself; seriously - every last detail. I can relate to every single aspect of what you have written, to the word.
Expect it to get a lot worse before it gets better; please don't blame yourself; you could never have predicted this was going to happen; its only human to desperately hold onto your life that you feel is slipping away from you.
I have been at this for over 18months - I think my marriage is over; she wants a divorce; I still think its not too late and neither should you; keep going; spend time with your kids, do things for yourself, leave your wife alone; you cant solve her crisis; and it is a crisis brought on by bereavement and miscarriage and a lack of coping strategy.
Its not a great place to be, but its about trying to weather the storm, not trying to fix it. Easier said than done sometimes.
Like Faceman, my sitch is so similar to yours that I wouldn't be surprised to find out you went back 7 years and copy/ pasted my first post! First of all there is always hope and it's never too late. DB'ing will either save you or it will save you and your M. In my case it saved me to the point that I was the one that pushed the D through. You might ask how that can be a DB success story, the answer is if you come out stronger, more confident, a better dad and a better person in general then you win no matter what happens to your M. Some M's here are saved and some aren't, but in many of the cases where the M's aren't saved it's because ultimately that was the LBS's decision. Now for some specifics:
But the job made me miserable. It's not what I want to do and the organization is completely dysfunctional. I brought that home with me. I was short, overly critical, and generally not a fun guy to be around a lot of the time. I now see that all of our energy went into our children and we left our relationship rot. Both of us. Several years ago my wife also lost her mother and younger brother unexpectedly and we suffered through a miscarriage in December 2016. I don't know if these issues factor in to where we are now, but I mention them because they were major, negative milestones for us.
All of these are factors. That doesn't mean they are "reasons", we all look for explanations early on but we all eventually learn there are no explanations. So don't expend a lot of energy trying to get in your W's head and figure out what she's thinking. She's confused and in turmoil no matter how confident she may seem. Give her time and space.
After weeks of procrastination, she told me that she didn't want to work with another couples counselor. "We tried it. It didn't work. I don't think I can get those feelings back."
She is being genuine, that IS how she feels right now. WAS's go to counseling so they can cross it off their list of "things I tried to save the M but just proved it was over anyway". Her feelings can change down the road but you've got to DB your heart out and be patient.
Of course, I have done all of the wrong things. Begged, cried way too much, asked about the children, sent her articles on marriage, wrote passionate emails, forwarded our loving email banter from the past, pressured her, asked why, asked her out, said ILY, stopped saying ILY, started saying ILY again ... you get the picture.
All very damaging behavior. This just makes you look desperate and needy and that is VERY unattractive, especially to a WAS. I assume now that you've found DB'ing that this has stopped?
Since I discovered this site I have begun reading DR, attempting to detach and 180 and laying down some boundaries.
What are the boundaries and what are the consequences if she doesn't comply? A lot of new DB'ers get this totally wrong so It's important to discuss this ASAP.
On Wednesday, after contemplating it for a month, W signed a one-year lease for a 2BR townhouse near our marital home. She tells me that she doesn't know when she is moving out. She tells me that she doesn't know what she is going to tell our Ds. She tells me that we have grown apart; that she doesn't love me anymore, and too much "stuff" has happened in our relationship. That's all the details I can get.
Good. Let her go. Separation will help you detach and help her realize that maybe you're not the source of all her problems after all. And quit asking for details. No R talk, EVER.
The most confusing part for me is that we get along great. We talk. We laugh. We enjoy each other's company. We don't fight. We are a team. We are friends. Why does she refuse to work on us? Is it cake-eating?
It's not confusing to us, it's very common. She doesn't love you "that way" anymore. ILYBINILWY. You really don't want to be her buddy because that'll just keep you stuck. It's fine to have limited friendly interaction with her but keep it short and you be the one to end it. As far as she is concerned you are a busy dude and have places to go and people to see. And the less she knows about your activities the better.
It's illogical, but I guess women don't think logically.
We have some absolutely brilliant, amazing women right here on these forums. Many of them have WAH's that have seemingly lost their minds. So this isn't a "woman" think, it's a walkaway spouse thing.
Until she moves out, how do I DB successfully? Can I take the kids out to dinner on my own (we have always done things as a family)? Or will that be viewed as me being spiteful? I want her to see some of the consequences of a separation, but it's hard for me to do it 1) because our young girls are clueless and 2) because I don't want it to appear that I am being a jerk. I know ... excuses.
Yes try to do things with the girls and involve your W less. And try to do things on your own. Get out and GAL. Meet new people. Don't shirk your dad responsibilities, but do try to get out more.
Oh yes indeed. She is 100% done and can't stand to be in the same bed, room or even house as you right now. That doesn't mean she'll still feel that way in 6 months or a year or 2 years or whatever. She changed her mind about you, but what makes you think she can't change it back again?
AnotherStander - great post - gave me great perspective and answered a few of my questions too....thanks
Will- welcome to the board and sorry you are here. It is never too late- look at Sandis rules- NEVER QUIT. You are doing the right thing by reading DR and DBing. You will meet some incedible people here with wonderful advice.read as much as you can. Get familiarized with DBing techniques, detaching , validation and Sandis rules. Reread daily if necessary. What you have described in your initial post is common. Read lots and post often you are in for one he77 of a ride. Buckle up! Good luck on your journey!
Thank you so much for your kinds words and support.
If she is laughing and enjoying life with you without all the parts of you she doesn't want, she is cake eating. Are you willing to just be her "friend" no matter what? If she moves out, if she finds another guy?
Your girls won't be clueless forever. If mommy wants out, you don't keep playing happy family. She chose it, now she deals with that consequence. She might say she's done, but don't believe anything she says and only half of what she does.
You're right. I know she is cake eating, and I am progressing toward putting an end to it. When we are around the children together, I still put on a show for their sake, but when they're off playing or in bed, I am beginning to stop being the friend, following the the rules.
Second women are logical but people in crisis are not
Thank you. You're right. I didn't intend to paint all women as illogical. Apologies to anyone who I may have offended. That was not my intention.
Remember actions speak a lot louder than words
She signed a lease but has not moved out
She says ILYBNILWY but has not filed for d
All good points that I need to remember. Thank you.
You should see a lawyer to know your rights re custody and finances
Do not initiate that discussion but you should be prepared for it
I spoke to an attorney last week. I have a roadmap for if/when she files. I don't like all of what the attorney told me, but I am very comfortable with executing the plan if I have to.
Now tell us what are you doing to improve you as a man for yourself first and hopefully down the road for a new relationship
More on this in my next post. Thanks so much.
D78 - sorry you find yourself here - its an awful place to be; I hope you find comfort in the fact that you are not alone and your story is incredibly familiar.
The words and behaviours you see and hear are exactly the same; I could have written your story myself; seriously - every last detail. I can relate to every single aspect of what you have written, to the word.
Expect it to get a lot worse before it gets better; please don't blame yourself; you could never have predicted this was going to happen; its only human to desperately hold onto your life that you feel is slipping away from you.
I have been at this for over 18months - I think my marriage is over; she wants a divorce; I still think its not too late and neither should you; keep going; spend time with your kids, do things for yourself, leave your wife alone; you cant solve her crisis; and it is a crisis brought on by bereavement and miscarriage and a lack of coping strategy.
Its not a great place to be, but its about trying to weather the storm, not trying to fix it. Easier said than done sometimes.
Thanks so much for your words and support. I will keep this in mind.
Thanks so much for your specific comments and advice.
All very damaging behavior. This just makes you look desperate and needy and that is VERY unattractive, especially to a WAS. I assume now that you've found DB'ing that this has stopped?
Yes. I am 100 percent done with this.
What are the boundaries and what are the consequences if she doesn't comply? A lot of new DB'ers get this totally wrong so It's important to discuss this ASAP.
Right now the only boundary I have set is that I will not let my W put me in an awkward place with my children. For instance, I went home for lunch on Friday. I know I shouldn't have, but my Ds asked me to come home, so I caved. When I got there, W said she needed to run to the store to pick up one item. She was gone for nearly 45 minutes -- the trip to the store and back should have taken 15 mins -- and my Ds were asking where she was. She didn't tell me so, but I had a suspicion that she went to her new place for some reason. I didn't know what to tell my Ds when they asked where mommy is. I told them she went to the store and they would have to ask mommy what she was doing when she got back.
When she finally returned, I was angry at her for lying to me. I later realized that I wasn't angry at the lies, but for the way she made me have to cover for her to our children. So that is my boundary. Later that evening I told my W that she doesn't need to tell me where she is going or what she is doing, but that I will not put up with her disappearing like that and not telling our girls. If it happens again, we will not sit at home and wait for her to return.
Good. Let her go. Separation will help you detach and help her realize that maybe you're not the source of all her problems after all. And quit asking for details. No R talk, EVER.
I'm over talking R. I will not ever initiate those talks. W showed emotion without me showing it first for the first time on Friday, nearly crying and telling me that she is doing her best. I wondered if she is having second thoughts. Perhaps so, perhaps not. I really wanted to say something like, "It's not too late. If you are having second thoughts, we can work this out. You don't have to move just because you signed the lease." But I was strong. I just looked at her and listened and said, "I know you're doing your best." It was hard for me, but I felt like I had accomplished something big for myself when the urge to comfort, help, and fix finally passed.
We have some absolutely brilliant, amazing women right here on these forums. Many of them have WAH's that have seemingly lost their minds. So this isn't a "woman" think, it's a walkaway spouse thing.
I didn't intend to paint all women as illogical. I apologize. W has always been more of an emotional decision maker. That is what meant to communicate here. I'm sorry to anyone who I may have offended by writing so carelessly.
Yes try to do things with the girls and involve your W less. And try to do things on your own. Get out and GAL. Meet new people. Don't shirk your dad responsibilities, but do try to get out more.
I am beginning to do this. Started late last week and continued through this weekend.
Oh yes indeed. She is 100% done and can't stand to be in the same bed, room or even house as you right now. That doesn't mean she'll still feel that way in 6 months or a year or 2 years or whatever. She changed her mind about you, but what makes you think she can't change it back again?
This was difficult to read, but I needed to hear it.
Thank you so much for your wise words and support.
Thanks to everyone who took the time to read my sitch and offer comments. It's really appreciated.
This was an interesting and difficult yet enjoyable weekend.On Friday evening I told my wife that I was thinking about taking our Ds out to dinner, as we did not have plans or food to cook. She was quiet and reserved and I could see tears welling in her eyes. This is not normal for her. She has not shown much emotion around me since BD. I asked her if she was OK. She said yes, and looked away. That was that.
I got the girls ready for dinner and -- was this a mistake? -- I asked W if she was going to come with us. Thinking about the rules "... it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go." I thought this might have been OK. Anyway, she said, "I thought you were just taking the girls." I told her she was welcome to come. She asked me if I wanted her to go. I told her: "It's up to you. We're going." Ultimately she decided to join us. Did I handle this correctly?
That evening, after the girls were in bed, she left to go to her new place to do some cleaning. I settled in on the couch and started watching a movie. When she returned she said she was going to get ready for bed and then come back to the living room to have a drink and, presumably, join me on the couch and watch a movie. When she came back downstairs, I was tired and ready for bed. So I said goodnight and went to bed. This seemed to take her by surprise.
On Saturday, I got up early (I usually sleep in a bit on the weekends), got dressed in my new clothes, and told the girls I was going out for some daddy time and I would be back in an hour or so. I went to my favorite diner and had breakfast, then did some shopping for some things I need around the house, and went to a farmer's market. This is part of my 180. I would typically never do these things on my own and it set the stage for a nice day.
We spent some time together as a family and with friends at a local pool. As much as possible, I interacted with my kids and let my W initiate all interactions with me. That evening I cooked dinner for the family -- still pretending for kids' sake at this point -- and then had a buddy come over. He and I sat out back and had a couple of beers while my wife was inside with the girls.
That evening, she again went to her new place to continue preparing it for the move. I let this get the best of me, and it really made me mad. When she returned, I again excused myself to bed, but I couldn't sleep. When she came to bed about an hour later, I asked her why she was still here. Why is she sleeping in our bed. I told her to get out. I was rude. She slept on the couch. Perhaps this was a good thing, but the way I handled it was not good. I apologized in the morning, not for kicking her out, but for the way I did it. I slipped here and I admit it. Will get better.
On Sunday I began demo of our half bath, a rehab project that we have been putting off for about two years. I stayed busy and made some progress. I then took the girls shopping for new shoes and had a lunch date with them while W did some grocery shopping and housework. Given the poor night's rest the night before, I took a nap on the couch during the afternoon. Are DBers allowed to nap?
My folks invited us over for dinner last night. W knew I was going and taking the girls, but we had not discussed her attendance. Shortly before we left, I asked her if she was going to go. "I would like to, is that OK?" she said. "Yes," I replied. We had a lovely meal with my family and the girls enjoyed some playtime with their cousins. Nothing to report here, I suppose.
Another 180 I'm making is saying "yes" to friends and family. In the past, I would almost always turn down invitations for activities in favor of spending more time with my W and the kids. This weekend I was invited to go bike riding with two of my D7's friends' fathers. I initially wanted to turn down the invitation, but I accepted. Our plans were canceled due to weather, but it's on the agenda for this week. I'm also working to stay more active and doing things on my own. I have a round of golf scheduled for later this week as well. W is definitely curious about these new activities.
Twice in the past week, since I started implementing the rules and DB strategies, my wife has told me that I look nice. She hasn't done that since BD, except when it was forced upon us by our MC over the winter. I know I shouldn't read into this, and I'm trying not to, but it is a curious development. Yesterday, she looked exceptionally beautiful, and I told her that. Is it OK to pay her compliments like this?
Thanks, again, for all of your help and support. I was moved to tears reading your feedback over the weekend.
You are doing SO great! Those are all the right moves. Yes, you slipped up once, but you caught yourself, and you owned it. Keep doing what you're doing!
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
When she finally returned, I was angry at her for lying to me.
If I'm reading correctly then you really don't know if she lied or not. She said she was running to the store. Did she say it would take 15 minutes or did you just assume that? My W could never go in a store and buy one thing and walk out, too many distractions. 45 minutes doesn't sound that long to me. Here's the thing, if you are going to embrace DB'ing then you have got to quit letting little things like this get to you. DETACH. Give her TIME and SPACE. That means not concerning yourself with where she is every second of the day. She wants breathing room and you've got to give it to her. If she wants to take her time at the store then let her. You go about YOUR life and let her live hers.
Later that evening I told my W that she doesn't need to tell me where she is going or what she is doing, but that I will not put up with her disappearing like that and not telling our girls. If it happens again, we will not sit at home and wait for her to return.
But she was only gone for 45 minutes? I could understand if she said she was going to the store and disappeared for 6 hours, but I think you're making a big deal out of nothing in this case. She feels trapped in a M she doesn't want and you've got to "open the cage door". Telling her it's not acceptable to be gone for 45 minutes is just going to make her feel more caged-in, right?
I'm over talking R. I will not ever initiate those talks. W showed emotion without me showing it first for the first time on Friday, nearly crying and telling me that she is doing her best. I wondered if she is having second thoughts.
No, it's far too soon for that. You will see things like this now and then, it is NOT regret, simply some feelings of guilt and frustration. She still thinks she's justified in ending the M though. You've got to see this from her CURRENT point of view, her entire mindset has changed and you don't know this new W yet.
I really wanted to say something like, "It's not too late. If you are having second thoughts, we can work this out. You don't have to move just because you signed the lease." But I was strong.
Be patient and take a long-term view. Don't temperature check because you're never going to hear what you want to hear. It's going to be quite a while before she might start changing her mind about the M. Don't read meaning into her emotional moments.
This was an interesting and difficult yet enjoyable weekend.On Friday evening I told my wife that I was thinking about taking our Ds out to dinner, as we did not have plans or food to cook. She was quiet and reserved and I could see tears welling in her eyes. This is not normal for her. She has not shown much emotion around me since BD. I asked her if she was OK. She said yes, and looked away. That was that. I got the girls ready for dinner and -- was this a mistake? -- I asked W if she was going to come with us. Thinking about the rules "... it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go." I thought this might have been OK. Anyway, she said, "I thought you were just taking the girls." I told her she was welcome to come. She asked me if I wanted her to go. I told her: "It's up to you. We're going." Ultimately she decided to join us. Did I handle this correctly?
There are going to be awkward situations like this that come up. Try to remember that it took her months or even years to become a WAW and no one thing you do is going to bring her back or send her away for good. You've got to show her a different you consistently over a long period of time. So don't sweat little stuff like this too much as in the long run it doesn't really affect things. I think you handled it fine though. Most WAS's want to continue acting like a family right up until they move out, that's when things change quite a bit.
Yesterday, she looked exceptionally beautiful, and I told her that. Is it OK to pay her compliments like this?
Have you read the 7 Love Languages? A lot of women have WoA as their primary language, but even if she doesn't it's probably high on her list. Read that chapter for ideas on how to offer WoA without it being sexual. It needs to be specific as well, not just generic compliments. One example might be that if she's helping one of your daughters with homework you might mention how impressed you are at how patient she is with the girls, that sort of thing. While DB'ing you don't want to go too heavy on physical compliments, so look for ways to compliment her work skills, or crafts, cooking, etc.
AnotherStander,
I'm just going to clarify this, I know it was a mistake but I got a lot of lols out of it.
It's called 5 Love Languages.. . Teehee
I think it's OK to tell the wife you won't lie to cover for her (to your kids), but going to the store and being gone 45 minutes seems reasonable to me.
If I'm reading correctly then you really don't know if she lied or not. She said she was running to the store. Did she say it would take 15 minutes or did you just assume that? My W could never go in a store and buy one thing and walk out, too many distractions. 45 minutes doesn't sound that long to me. Here's the thing, if you are going to embrace DB'ing then you have got to quit letting little things like this get to you. DETACH. Give her TIME and SPACE. That means not concerning yourself with where she is every second of the day. She wants breathing room and you've got to give it to her. If she wants to take her time at the store then let her. You go about YOUR life and let her live hers.
But she was only gone for 45 minutes? I could understand if she said she was going to the store and disappeared for 6 hours, but I think you're making a big deal out of nothing in this case. She feels trapped in a M she doesn't want and you've got to "open the cage door". Telling her it's not acceptable to be gone for 45 minutes is just going to make her feel more caged-in, right?
Fair points. I admit that I didn't handle this correctly. In my defense, though, I have an hour break from work for lunch. W knows this. It's routine that she will occasionally run out and get a coffee or make a quick trip to the store when I am home for lunch. It takes me 15 minutes to get home and 15 minutes to drive back to the office, which leaves me 30 minutes at home. If she had taken a longer trip out when getting back to work wasn't an issue, I wouldn't have had a problem with it. Looking back, I think I felt that she was taking advantage of my time and not respecting my schedule. Either way, if it happens again, I'll just let it slide. I see now that it did me no good to get upset over it.
Be patient and take a long-term view. Don't temperature check because you're never going to hear what you want to hear. It's going to be quite a while before she might start changing her mind about the M. Don't read meaning into her emotional moments.
Thanks for the reminder. I was pretty proud of myself for holding back in this scenario.
So don't sweat little stuff like this too much as in the long run it doesn't really affect things. I think you handled it fine though. Most WAS's want to continue acting like a family right up until they move out, that's when things change quite a bit.
Thanks for the affirmation. I would love for her to start feeling the consequences of separation before she moves out, but it is a tricky and delicate sitch with the children.
One example might be that if she's helping one of your daughters with homework you might mention how impressed you are at how patient she is with the girls, that sort of thing. While DB'ing you don't want to go too heavy on physical compliments, so look for ways to compliment her work skills, or crafts, cooking, etc.
This is great advice that I will implement. Thank you. I guess that's another book I'll have to read when I finish DR.
Appreciate your support and perspective!
The most confusing part for me is that we get along great. We talk. We laugh. We enjoy each other's company. We don't fight. We are a team. We are friends. Why does she refuse to work on us? Is it cake-eating?
She friend-zoned you a long time ago. The two of you get along and work as a team, but she doesn't think of you as a lover. She doesn't feel the attraction. Once she moves out, she'll probably still expect to continue doing things as a family (yes, it's cake eating). She'll probably still turn to you as a friend (more cake). She just won't desire you as a man.
My folks invited us over for dinner last night. W knew I was going and taking the girls, but we had not discussed her attendance. Shortly before we left, I asked her if she was going to go. "I would like to, is that OK?" she said. "Yes," I replied. We had a lovely meal with my family and the girls enjoyed some playtime with their cousins. Nothing to report here, I suppose.
Do your folks, or anyone, know that she is leaving you? As long as you continue to include her in family events, nothing changes for her. She'll expect to be included in holiday celebrations, family traditions, etc. So, she will get all the benefits of being M to you, without any of the responsibilities. She can join in the part she likes and then go back to her place.
Thanks for commenting, Sandi. Having read many of your remarks on here to others, I'm delighted to hear your take. Thank you.
She friend-zoned you a long time ago. The two of you get along and work as a team, but she doesn't think of you as a lover. She doesn't feel the attraction. Once she moves out, she'll probably still expect to continue doing things as a family (yes, it's cake eating). She'll probably still turn to you as a friend (more cake). She just won't desire you as a man.
While she is still living with me, I am attempting to limit these "friend" activities. Part of it involves me GAL, but I'm also not organizing my schedule around her. I am doing activities alone with our daughters. I stick to my bedtime when she wants to hang out, have a drink, and watch a movie. I realize these are not massive changes, but it's what I can do for now while she is still in the house and the girls are still in the dark. When/if she actually moves out, it will stop completely.
Do your folks, or anyone, know that she is leaving you? As long as you continue to include her in family events, nothing changes for her. She'll expect to be included in holiday celebrations, family traditions, etc. So, she will get all the benefits of being M to you, without any of the responsibilities. She can join in the part she likes and then go back to her place.
I have two close friends who know about our sitch. The rest of our friends and family are in the dark. Part of me, I think, is afraid to tell them because 1) if she changes her mind, I don't want them to know about it, and 2), having it out in the open will make it easier for her to act on the moving out. Perhaps those are both invalid, but my plan is to follow her timeline on the process. This seems to be in line with DBing strategies. It buys me time. I really think that if the news broke widely among my family and hers, she would hit the ground running out the door.
However, when/if she does leave, I do think she will be surprised to find out that we're no longer doing things as a family. I will not have it. Before I started DBing, I tried to impress this upon her, and she accepted that it is a consequence of a D. I don't think it has fully set in, though.
As I said above, I'm trying to make changes now in my interactions and activities we do/don't do as a family (mostly for the kids' sake), but when she moves out, all family activities are over and, I don't want this to sound harsh, but we're not going to be friends. Of course I'll be cordial, but I'm not her handyman, shoulder to cry on, friend to laugh with, etc.
I'm a bit confused about my wedding band. W stopped wearing hers in April, I believe. For a while, she would wear it when we would get together with friends or family, but that stopped altogether in June.
I have continued to wear mine. I see it as a symbol of my commitment to our MR. But how does she see it? Is it a reminder every time she sees it that she feels trapped? Should I take it off for that reason? Or should I take it off as part of my detachment process, as a way to start accepting that she is likely leaving? Or should I keep it on as a silent symbol that I am still committed? Or does it not matter at all?
W texts me to ask if I can stop to pick up something she needs for dinner this evening. Paraphrased text conversation follows:
Me: I have plans at 5:30 so I need to come home quickly and change clothes.
W: OK. I can go. What plans?
Me: A bike ride.
W: I know you're out doing things and don't want to tell me but we need to communicate about plans.
Me: [no immediate response]
W: I'm typing in a nonaggressive tone. no judging or tone.
Me: I know. I'm just not sure what to say. I'm just trying to stay busy and think things through. And I literally just told you I have plans. I'm not trying to hide anything.
W: I don't think you are.
I'm not really sure how to respond to this one. The conversation will likely continue this evening. How'd I do so far? Any suggestions?
She assumes she is suppose to go with you? Just say, "Sorry, but these plans don't include you". Don't tell her what they are, where you are going or who will be there. Let her curiosity suffer.
I'm a bit confused about my wedding band. W stopped wearing hers in April, I believe. For a while, she would wear it when we would get together with friends or family, but that stopped altogether in June.
I have continued to wear mine. I see it as a symbol of my commitment to our MR. But how does she see it? Is it a reminder every time she sees it that she feels trapped? Should I take it off for that reason? Or should I take it off as part of my detachment process, as a way to start accepting that she is likely leaving? Or should I keep it on as a silent symbol that I am still committed? Or does it not matter at all?
WillD78...so I have felt those exact same feelings as you. My W took her's off pretty much right after she left. I kept mine on solid for another 3 months or so. When I took it off, W definitely noticed and it unleashed some crazy actions from her. To this day I go back and forth between wearing it and not wearing it. I've just allowed my feelings/where I'm at in my acceptance of what is happening to guide me. There is no right answer, but that which feels right to you. For example yesterday no ring, today wearing it. It's crazy to me, but so long as I'm comfortable with it that's all that matters.
I took mine off the day I left the house, one day post BD. It was an emotional decision and probably not the wisest one. My W put it away because she couldn't bear to look at it. Now, I'm not sure where it even is.
I think it is completely a personal choice. I'd rather not have that constant reminder of my sitch on my finger 24/7.
I kept my ring on for the first 2+ months, but once I had confirmed her A, I had to take it off. Looking at the ring on my finger, and knowing that she had taken hers off, and was with someone else was too painful. Even now that I have had it off for a couple weeks I still find myself looking at my hand or feeling for the ring being there. I'm not sure that NOT wearing it actually makes me feel any better. I think you just have to make the right choice for you and not concern yourself with how she may or may not react to it.
Ballast, Davide, DB: Thanks. I have been keeping it on most of the time. I just haven't been religious about it. I guess that's what I'll keep doing. When it's off, it just feels weird. I think it's more of a reminder of my sitch when it's off because I'm so used to wearing it.
Your advice is sound, though. I'll just do what feels best for me.
Thank you.
Well, it turns out that today is the day my wedding band comes off. A friend of mine stopped by last night and we had a drink on the front porch. D7 sat on my lap while we talked. She was playing with my hands, grabbed my ring, and said, "Why do you wear this? It's for girls!" I brushed it off and then she said, "Seriously, why do you wear this?"
In my head I thought, "That's a really great question." But I told her it is a wedding ring and it means that I am married to mommy. It broke my heart. Look, I'm fine playing house until W moves out, just in case the one-in-a-million chance that she changes her mind and stays happens. But something about explaining me wearing a wedding band to D7 -- knowing that any day now, when W finally musters up the courage, she is going to break our Ds hearts -- was too much for me. The ring is off.
...
Last night after we put the girls in bed, W comes down and tells me that she is going to do some shopping. This is just a day after she told me that we have to communicate "about our plans." I brought this up to her, in a calm fashion. Something along the lines of "Just yesterday you told me that we need to communicate about plans. And now you tell me a moment before you leave that you are going out. What if I had plans to go out now?"
W: You're right. I should have told you.
Me: That's not really my point. I'm saying you don't have to tell me and I don't have to tell you.
W, with tears welling in her eyes: No. I want to tell you and I want you to tell me.
Me: OK. But I don't think it's any of my business.
W: OK. Do you need anything at the store?
Me: Nope. Enjoy yourself.
I have no clue what about this conversation made her start to cry. She I can count on one hand the number of times she has cried in front of me about this whole sitch.
Anyway, I settled in to watch a movie. She returned about an hour later and plops down on the couch. Then it's 20 questions. "What are you watching?" "Is it any good?" "What's going on here?" "Are they stranded?" "Isn't Tom Hardy in this?" "Is that Tom Hardy?" "Whoa, who are those guys?" "What are they doing?"
I pause the movie and say: "I'm not trying to be rude here. If you want to watch a movie with me, you are more than welcome to watch a movie with me. Any time. But I'm trying to watch this and I can't keep stopping it to bring you up to speed."
"OK," she said, "You're right."
Now I feel guilty about that exchange. This is hard.
Yeah, I am not sure I would have handled it like that. Maybe paused it, brought her up to speed and then started it back up.
DBing is hard. But you want to try to minimize the number of times she feels like something else is more important to you than she is. DBing isn't about putting other things before your spouse, it is about working on you and giving her time to figure out her stuff. Admittedly I don't know much about your sitch, I'll go back and read it, but in general you shouldn't make her feel less important in your life if you can help it.
I have no clue what about this conversation made her start to cry. She I can count on one hand the number of times she has cried in front of me about this whole sitch.
WD,
This gets all the LBS wheels spinning the first time they witness this but it doesn't mean anything. Blowing up a family is very stressful and you combine that with hormones and you will see the tears from time to time. You start to think she is second guessing her decision and that she is human after all, later to find out nothings changed.
Things will get easier once she moves out and you start to get use to a life on your own. The movie incident didn't get you any points but it didn't lose you any either.
Time and space are the only thing that turns these around.
Stay strong.
Steve, LH,
Thank you, both, for your feedback. I knew I screwed up on the movie thing. At the time, I was thinking, "If you want to move out, you don't get to watch movies with me. This is what that will feel like." Oh well. I'm still new at this. Only two weeks into DBing today. I will do better.
One thing I haven't mentioned, which is totally odd to me: Twice in the past week, W has purchased furniture for our Ds' rooms. These are items we have been talking about for a while; things they need. But why now? She has signed a lease for her own place. She will need furniture there. I'm sure she will take some of our shared furniture, but she's not going to be ripping the Ds' rooms apart. Why is she buying furniture for the home she is leaving? Is this compensation because she feels guilty about the effect this will have on our Ds? I know, I shouldn't try mind reading. I guess this is just more about me thinking out loud and venting. But, like so much of this sitch, it makes zero sense.
Will......scrambled eggs for brains. That is the best way to try to explain WW's contradictory actions.
So I don't know your sitch, so ignore me if I am off base. But the way you talked to your wife is the way my exF talked to me. It was cold and cruel. I, like you, struggle with the whole detach with love thing. I don't know how to be nice while not being cold. If I were your wife, I would feel like you don't give a crap about me. My exF would always act like a TV show was more important than a conversation with me.
Scrambled eggs, indeed, Steve.
MMM, you nailed it. That is what I struggle with. I find it extremely difficult to be aloof but still kind. I am working on it. I love my W, but she has hurt me deeply over the past year and continues to. I'm angry and sad, when I let myself be. That is the place where that movie conversation came from. I need to keep working on this. Thanks for weighing in.
I just read your initial sitch and you sound exactly like my exF. He was overly critical, worked too much, seemed angry all
the time etc. I wanted to leave my F many times but didn't have the courage. She is most likely second guessing herself and if I were in her shoes, I would think whatever changes you are making are temporary. I would try to really work at it to make them permanent. We may be able to help each other on this. I'm sure in your eyes you didn't think you were "that bad" but dealing with someone critical like that really wears a woman down! She is probably feels like this is her only option. I am going to keep reading and hopefully give you some female perspective. I'm not a vet and suck at DB, but maybe a genuine female perspective will help. PS. We have kids etc too so similar situation...
Steve, LH,Why is she buying furniture for the home she is leaving? Is this compensation because she feels guilty about the effect this will have on our Ds? .
Yes! My EXW mulched my entire front bed 3 weeks before she left. Guilt is good! Use it to your advantage.
I also had an EA with a divorced person. ExF actually never knew about it. We never talked about anything bad or sexual etc it was more asking his opinion of my life and what should I do to fix this. It was totally wrong (and was a year or so ago) but my exF wouldn't listen to me. He didn't seem like he cared how I felt except for every few weeks then he would go back to "I'm more important than you" or complaining. Complaints and negatively depress me and shut me down. Just some more added insight.
I agree with the furniture thing, she feels guilty and confused. I think she will continue to feel this even after she MO.
Scrambled eggs, indeed, Steve.
MMM, you nailed it. That is what I struggle with. I find it extremely difficult to be aloof but still kind. I am working on it. I love my W, but she has hurt me deeply over the past year and continues to. I'm angry and sad, when I let myself be. That is the place where that movie conversation came from. I need to keep working on this. Thanks for weighing in.
Will, you can't help how you feel. Don't ever let anyone tell you that you can. However, what you can do is CONTROL your actions, even if your feelings lead you to act in a different way. Notice the difference? Feelings, can't control. Outward actions, can control.
The term "wears their feelings on their sleeve" is an apt description of most in our modern society. But we can control it.
Thanks, MMM. I do appreciate your take as a woman. I fully admit my role in this, and I have changed. It's been almost a year since BD, so if she doesn't yet believe the changes are real, then perhaps she never will.
I'll take a look at your sitch and see if I can add any perspective there.
Thanks, again.
I spent a good part of the weekend GALing. After posting here on Friday, I decided to take a half day for myself. I did some shopping and prepared an elaborate dish for a neighborhood party we were attending on Friday evening. W and I used to like to experiment with cooking new foods, particularly ethnic dishes. I have decided to get back into that myself.
Spent some quality time on Saturday and Sunday with my girls. W went out on Saturday afternoon. She didn't say where she was going and I let my imagination run wild. Not a good idea. I didn't sit around the house and pout, though. I took our daughters shopping and visited some friends. While driving from place to place, I passed the OM from W's EA last fall. He was driving to his home. "So that's where W is," I thought. I turned the car around to see if she was going to be coming to our home at the same time. Like that would prove anything. She still wasn't home. I left again with the girls and when we returned W was back home. She could sense that I was tense and asked if something was wrong.
I probably should not have, but I asked her if she was seeing someone. She said no and that she's not in a mental state right now where she could even think about doing that. She said she had been cleaning her new place. She can only do it in small increments because it's so hard on her emotionally. I told her that seeing someone else right now before she moves out would not be OK. It was a civil conversation and I managed to not be emotional about it.
Sunday morning she told me, "At some point today, I'm going to go back over there and clean some more. Is there a time that works for you?" I responded that it doesn't really matter to me because I'm just going to hang with our kids. She said, "OK. Well, I just wanted to tell you so it's not weird when I leave. I hate talking about it, but I wanted you to know."
She hates talking about it, yet she continues to prepare her new home for a move. Does she realize that she is going to have to talk to me about this at some point BEFORE she leaves? We have co-parenting, finances, and property to figure out! And she will have to talk about it with our daughters. And her friends. And her family. Scrambled eggs, I guess.
I waffled throughout the weekend from despair and desperation, to thinking I'm over her and realizing I can get along without her, to wanting desperately to have her back in my arms. She also waffled. From leaving the house for hours to inviting me to go out to dinner on Sunday with her father, sister, and BIL. I also sense her moving closer to me in our bed, but this may very well be my mind playing tricks on me. What a crazy place limbo is.
I did a pretty good job GALing, in addition to the cooking, I spend some QT with the girls at our favorite diner and a water park, and met up with a friend for a beer. Baby steps. I'm trying my hardest not to give up, while also attempting to prepare myself for her to eventually leave.
Oh, one other significant, or at least interesting bit from the weekend ... This may not make sense or be of any consequence, but it affected me:
As I mentioned above, I met a friend for a beer on Saturday. He and his W are our neighbors, probably our closest "couples friends," and the four of us and our families spend a lot of time together. When W BDed me last summer, he was my support. The only person I talked to. And my W talked to his W. It turns out that they had gone through similar M problems several years ago. Over the past year, I have talked to him on and off about my M and W. Whenever I would talk to him, his W would reach out to my W to make sure she was OK.
So, on Saturday night, W asks me if I talked to my friend about our MR and about the fact that she signed a lease on a new place. I tell her, honestly, that the topic did come up because he asked how we were doing, but he already knew about the lease, b/c I talked to him on the day W told me she signed the lease.
W said she thought it was "weird" because my friend's W used to always check in with my W after there was a development in our MR and I talked to my friend about it. But that hasn't happened lately. She seemed upset that it seems like her friend is letting her down. I really wanted to fix this. I wanted to tell W that she should reach out. Or that our friends don't understand what she is doing so they don't really know what to say to her. But I didn't. I listened. I validated.
I thought about telling my friend to tell his W to contact my W. But that's fixing again. I have just let it be, but I really feel bad for her. This is a result of her shutting everyone off from her emotionally. This is a consequence of the actions she is taking leaving our family and our home.
W has spent two hours each of the past few nights cleaning her new place. I can't help but think that it must be a terrible dump if she has to spend so much time "cleaning." I have no reason not to believe that is what she is doing, but of course, I am suspicious. When she tells me she is going to clean, I simply say, "OK. See you later."
The weather here has been incredibly crummy since Sunday, making my outdoor GAL activities difficult. I do manage to stay busy with the kids and there was enough of a break in the rain for me to go on a jog yesterday -- the first time I have done that since early May, I would guess. W texts me occasionally while I am at work, mostly about the kids and she occasionally sends me a photo of their activities. When I get home from work she typically talks my ear off about her day with the girls. I assume she is just starved for adult interaction, so I do my best to listen.
Last week we learned the awful news that our friends' S3 has been diagnosed with cancer. It's treatable and the likelihood of full recovery is very high, but they have a long road ahead of them.
On Monday afternoon I get a text from W: "I wanted to tell you I got a text asking about [friends' S3]. I ignored it and deleted it. I don't think it's appropriate for me to respond and I wanted to tell you right away out of respect for us and our situation."
Me: "Was it from [OM]?"
W: "I'm assuming. I don't know the number and I didn't want to risk it in case it was and you saw it."
Me: "Thanks for telling me. He could have simply asked [our mutual friends]"
W: "That's why I didn't respond and ignored. I honestly don't know the number so I can't be sure. But I didn't like the situation so I did what my gut told me to do."
Me: "OK. Thanks for telling me."
I have so many questions about this interaction. "Out of respect for us and our situation"? What?!? Our situation is that W is preparing to move out and leave our MH. She is essentially saying we are over. So why does she now respect us and our situation?
Is this even really what happened? When she was carrying on her EA with OM through texts last summer and fall, they both had iPhones, so their texts went through iMessage and I couldn't see them on the phone bill. Occasionally a few would be sent via SMS and appear on the phone bill. Makes me wonder if they're back to texting and this happens to be one of those occasions where one slipped through on SMS. In my gut, I don't believe this is the case, but who knows?!
And if this is the truth, what kind of a low-life uses a three-year-old's cancer diagnosis as an opportunity to reconnect with an old flame? I hope she sees that for what it is.
Anyway, we never talked about this exchange again. But it has left me wondering.
Detachment.....you don't care. Her texting with OM, real or imagined, doesn't affect you emotionally. You are a duck, and the water rolls right off your back.
Work on your detachment. As long as you are so attached to what she says and does you will never evoke any changes in her. You still might not, but that is the beauty of detachment. Detachment might wake her up as she feels the loss of control. But if it doesn't, you are detached and don't care!
Thanks for the reminder, Steve. You're right. I'm still a work in progress, but I'm getting there. This event didn't effect me the way it would have a month ago. I would have been angry and devastated. Today I'm more like, "hmmm."
.
W said she thought it was "weird" because my friend's W used to always check in with my W after there was a development in our MR and I talked to my friend about it. But that hasn't happened lately. She seemed upset that it seems like her friend is letting her down. I really wanted to fix this. I wanted to tell W that she should reach out. Or that our friends don't understand what she is doing so they don't really know what to say to her. But I didn't. I listened. I validated.
I thought about telling my friend to tell his W to contact my W. But that's fixing again. I have just let it be, but I really feel bad for her. This is a result of her shutting everyone off from her emotionally. This is a consequence of the actions she is taking leaving our family and our home.
I think this was really good. I'm a fixer too. Glad you didn't try to fix this for her.
W has spent two hours each of the past few nights cleaning her new place. I can't help but think that it must be a terrible dump if she has to spend so much time "cleaning." I have no reason not to believe that is what she is doing, but of course, I am suspicious. When she tells me she is going to clean, I simply say, "OK. See you later."
The weather here has been incredibly crummy since Sunday, making my outdoor GAL activities difficult. I do manage to stay busy with the kids and there was enough of a break in the rain for me to go on a jog yesterday -- the first time I have done that since early May, I would guess. W texts me occasionally while I am at work, mostly about the kids and she occasionally sends me a photo of their activities. When I get home from work she typically talks my ear off about her day with the girls. I assume she is just starved for adult interaction, so I do my best to listen.
Last week we learned the awful news that our friends' S3 has been diagnosed with cancer. It's treatable and the likelihood of full recovery is very high, but they have a long road ahead of them.
On Monday afternoon I get a text from W: "I wanted to tell you I got a text asking about [friends' S3]. I ignored it and deleted it. I don't think it's appropriate for me to respond and I wanted to tell you right away out of respect for us and our situation."
Me: "Was it from [OM]?"
W: "I'm assuming. I don't know the number and I didn't want to risk it in case it was and you saw it."
Me: "Thanks for telling me. He could have simply asked [our mutual friends]"
W: "That's why I didn't respond and ignored. I honestly don't know the number so I can't be sure. But I didn't like the situation so I did what my gut told me to do."
Me: "OK. Thanks for telling me."
I have so many questions about this interaction. "Out of respect for us and our situation"? What?!? Our situation is that W is preparing to move out and leave our MH. She is essentially saying we are over. So why does she now respect us and our situation?
Is this even really what happened? When she was carrying on her EA with OM through texts last summer and fall, they both had iPhones, so their texts went through iMessage and I couldn't see them on the phone bill. Occasionally a few would be sent via SMS and appear on the phone bill. Makes me wonder if they're back to texting and this happens to be one of those occasions where one slipped through on SMS. In my gut, I don't believe this is the case, but who knows?!
And if this is the truth, what kind of a low-life uses a three-year-old's cancer diagnosis as an opportunity to reconnect with an old flame? I hope she sees that for what it is.
Anyway, we never talked about this exchange again. But it has left me wondering.
It's great that she told you this, even if it isn't true. Seems like she has been listening to what you want right now.
Detachment.....you don't care. Her texting with OM, real or imagined, doesn't affect you emotionally. You are a duck, and the water rolls right off your back.
Work on your detachment. As long as you are so attached to what she says and does you will never evoke any changes in her. You still might not, but that is the beauty of detachment. Detachment might wake her up as she feels the loss of control. But if it doesn't, you are detached and don't care!
I'm saving this for later. Such a great reminder on detaching. My IC said yesterday that you can't detach until you actually feel detached. I'm really working on this to.
WILLD- try not to think about everything she says and what it means. It seems to continue to make us feel "stuck".
On Monday afternoon I get a text from W: "I wanted to tell you I got a text asking about [friends' S3]. I ignored it and deleted it. I don't think it's appropriate for me to respond and I wanted to tell you right away out of respect for us and our situation."
Me: "Was it from [OM]?"
W: "I'm assuming. I don't know the number and I didn't want to risk it in case it was and you saw it."
Me: "Thanks for telling me. He could have simply asked [our mutual friends]"
W: "That's why I didn't respond and ignored. I honestly don't know the number so I can't be sure. But I didn't like the situation so I did what my gut told me to do."
Me: "OK. Thanks for telling me."
I have so many questions about this interaction. "Out of respect for us and our situation"? What?!? Our situation is that W is preparing to move out and leave our MH. She is essentially saying we are over. So why does she now respect us and our situation?
It's a setup. Do not buy into one word of it. She is conditioning you for something that's coming.
OK, folks. Need some advice.
Still in limbo. W is still at home playing house with me for the benefit of the kids, I suppose. She spends a few hours a week, doing what she says is preparing her new place for her big move to wreck our family, but still has not brought up a moving date, custody, finances, property, etc. I'm not sure if she is dragging her feet or what, but for someone who wants to leave me, she sure isn't in a hurry to do it. I know, it's the script.
Anyway, this is about finances. She is primarily a SAHM, but works remotely for 5-10 hours a week. I believe she puts most of that income into a savings account (we have always had separate accounts) and uses the monthly check I write to her to buy her items she needs, spends on the kids, etc. I also pay all of our bills, which, as you know, include our mortgage, her car payment, her mobile phone, her car insurance, her health insurance, groceries, dinners out, most activities, etc. She does contribute, too; buying things for the house and for the kids, etc., on the regular.
On last thing: I presume she is burning through our/her savings right now, paying her rent, buying God knows what for her new place, etc. In our R, she was the saver, I was the spender. We have always had separate accounts. I have a 401K, but otherwise we lived off of my paychecks while she would sock away sometimes up to half of hers. She also has some inheritance from her mother and brother. Since we haven't talked about this, I assume she's spending it like mad. A 180 for her, as she was always concerned about saving enough, having enough money to retire, etc. I'm sure she sees this savings as her money. I can see that -- she saved while I provided for the present -- but I don't like her blowing through it without at least talking to me about it.
So, do I keep this financial sitch going? I have told her that I will not be paying for her car, insurance, or mobile phone once she moves out. I do think I will have to keep writing her a monthly check, however. After talking with a L, it looks like I could be in trouble financially, if we can't keep this amicable; so I think I will keep paying her each month and justify it as essentially child support. But, now that she has supposedly made up her mind to move out (signed a lease three weeks ago), and, for all I know, is buying furniture for her new place, should I cease making the car payments, cell phone payments, etc., right now?
I'm thinking about sitting down with her tonight and telling her that I am through paying for her car (which she'll just pay off from her savings) and that I am going to deduct the cost of her mobile phone and car insurance from the check that I write her. I will then ask her about the savings sitch.
The other half of me wants to just keep the status quo. Pay the bills. Write the check. Let her spend "her" money. Stay quiet.
Thoughts?
You need to talk to your lawyer. He will advise on finances.
Have you read No More Mr. Nice Guy? I see some NGS qualities in your last post. Passive-aggressiveness. Covert contracts. Etc. Might be a good idea to read that and get into IC.
Thanks, Steve. I'm in IC. I'll get the book. No problem. Where do you see me acting passive aggressively? I admit that my writing style may give you that idea ("wreck our family"), but that was a lame attempt at humor in this humorless sitch.
As far as the covert contracts, there's nothing covert about this. Our original arrangement (me spending, her saving) was discussed extensively and mutually agreed upon. And what I am thinking about doing now is having a discussion about changing our current arrangement in light of the current circumstances. Granted, I haven't read the book yet, but where am I being a nice guy?
Yes, the "wreck our family" comment was the passive-aggressiveness. How about "She spends a few hours a week, doing what she says is preparing her new place for her big move to try to find happiness....
Also the covert contract is your trying to control her through finances. What I read was "Maybe if I keep giving her money then she will be nice to me in the D proceedings." "But if I pull back on the finances maybe she will want to stay with me for my money."
I recognize NGS because I definitely had a case of it. And still struggle with it. The book was invaluable.
Thanks, again. Ordered the book. It arrives Thursday.
I guess I will re-evaluate whether I am truly being passive aggressive in making that statement. Perhaps that is buried in my sense of humor.
I'm not sure if I agree that I am trying to control her and I understand that I should address this particular question with my lawyer. What I was hoping to gather from the group is whether there is a DBing way to look at this aspect of our sitch. I do not believe that me pulling back financial support will change her mind at all. I'm looking at this like I look at everything else in our family. She wants out of this MR. That means no more family time. I'm no longer her "friend." I GAL and we do things separately with our children. My question is, putting aside the legal questions, whether I should extend that to finances?
I have seen comments on other sitches recommending that LBSs cease all financial support, but this mostly seems to be when the spouse is in an active EA/PA. I don't believe that is the case right now in my sitch. I'm just wondering if this is the time to start pulling back financially; not because I want to spite her or control her, but because it is an inevitable step in this end game of S/D.
Like all things in DBing, wouldn't this be a sign that I am moving on while at the same time be a step in actually moving on? I mean, it will certainly make my life better. More money in my pocket means more opportunities to GAL, etc.
Or do I put all of that aside and simply rely on legal advice?
Yes, there is a DBing application to financial support post separation, and pulling it back. But it isn't about controlling, it is about boundaries. Your post didn't seem to be speaking to that, it came across as should I or shouldn't I? What is best for ME by doing one or the other.
The boundary aspect is: I refuse to fund you leaving the MR. It isn't about controlling her, she can still leave. It is about keeping a clear conscience that you didn't enable her decision because you disagree with it.
See the difference? Should I finance her or shouldn't I to try and control her behavor vs I refuse to finance something that I am morally opposed to.
The latter is an attitude of: "You can leave anytime you want. You are free to go. i won't try to stand in your way. But I also am not going to fund your desire to do so."
The other aspect of your post was "Will she be mad at me if I cut off or limited the financing?"
Your real outlook on this should be "I am going to do what I think is right (NOT finance the separation) and if she gets mad about it so be it".
Do what is right. Do not violate your own principles and morals. Let her feelings fall where they may.
Thanks so much, Steve. Really appreciate your perspective. This is what I was looking for. Time to reflect.
No problem.
One more thing, I am not a lawyer, so take this with a grain of salt! But what I have read is that in general you should not be giving a separated spouse support until ordered to do so by a court.
Got it. I'll certainly be talking this over with my lawyer.
I hate trying to come up with something useful after Steve posts, he is on it.
I will offer my support and encourage you to detach further. It is clear to me, and to your W I'm sure too, that you are hung up on everything she says and does.
Thanks, ovrrnbw. I'm a work in progress on detachment, but there is progress. At the very least, I am successfully faking it (till I'm making it) at home. I'm all business with the W and I think I'm doing it successfully, after a few fits and starts. That doesn't mean I'm there yet, but compared to where I was at the beginning of this month, I'm pretty proud of myself.
Not a lot to report here. Status quo, with a mild screw-up on my part. Of note the past week:
- I ended up paying the bills as usual. I decided on my own to continue to do so until W actually moves into her new place.
- On Saturday, W said she needed to stop by her new place for 30 minutes. She ended up being much longer than that and explained when she returned home that her landlord had installed new carpets and she needed to clean up the remnants. This prompted me to ask her politely and nonchalantly, "When are you going to move out?" Her reply was: "I don't know. I guess I should do it soon, though." I left it at that.
- Also on Saturday, we were invited to our neighbors' house for an impromptu get-together. W and Ds went ahead without me while I went for a jog. I arrived about 30 minutes later and played with my Ds and made small talk with the neighbors. W said she had to run home to drop something at our house and never returned. I returned later with our Ds and we tucked them into bed. I retired to the living room and W went to bed -- a first for her (she normally comes downstairs to wind down with cup of tea or glass of wine and some TV). In the morning she told me that a neighbor followed her into the kitchen at the get-together and asked W, "What's going on with you guys?" W explained to me that she was flustered and basically told the neighbor that she didn't want to talk about it and that this was what prompted her to leave the party. She told me that the question "upset" her and that's why she came home and didn't return. Like a dolt, I said, "Well, we will have to get used to people asking that question." She responded with something like, "Well, I just wanted you to know why I left." And we left it at that. I missed the perfect opportunity to explore and validate her feelings. Shoot.
- I am continuing to GAL and involve myself with D7 and D4 without W's presence. We are doing things more as a threesome, lunches, pool visits, and more. I think I find myself detaching. I no longer feel despair and desperation when W leaves to work on her new place to get it ready for moving. Perhaps this is successful detachment; perhaps I just keep myself busy with reading and being present for our Ds; or perhaps it is a form of denial because she hasn't actually pulled the trigger yet. I guess I will know for sure when she does that.
- Finally, I'm getting lots of texts from W today. Mostly about our Ds, but a few about a shared interest of ours--craft beer and a new one arriving on the scene in our town. I guess this is the friend zone. I let them sit for a bit and then reply as briefly as possible.
That's all for now. Love to all of you.
Welp, I likely screwed up again last night.
After our Ds were in bed, I again asked W if she has any idea on a date when she is moving out. She asks if I want her to leave now. Then says she doesn't have a day in mind. She tells me that it bothers her that I think this is easy on her. It's not easy. Her eyes well with tears.
I said there are some things we need to talk about before you leave. I think you are putting the cart before the horse in a lot of ways. What are you going to tell the children?
Very little, she said. Keep it brief, tell them it's not they're fault and that they are loved. We'll do it together.
You will do most of the talking, I say. I'm not sure what I can say to them. I don't agree with this and it's going to be hard for me to pretend this is a team decision.
So you're just going to make it look like I'm the one leaving, she asks.
Well that is what is happening, I think to myself, but simply tell her that's why we will have to talk about this. To figure this out. Why am I always the one who has to start these conversations? What about custody?
She figures they'll do two nights at her place, two nights at our MH, two nights at her place, etc. I tell her that's a lot of moving around with little stability. She asks what I have in mind. I don't know, I tell her, but we need to figure it out.
What are you planning on taking from the house?
Very little, she says. I'd like to take the good dishes, she says. Those were wedding gifts, I think we should split them, I tell her. She says OK, and she would like to take the TV stand but she hates the idea of leaving me with nothing there. That's fine, I tell her, you bought it.
Who is going to help you move?
I don't think I need help. I'm not taking much.
What about finances? I will continue to support the kids, but I'm not going to continue paying your bills. I assume you are just blowing through our savings right now.
No, she hasn't touched our savings. She borrowed from her father. She told him she needed money and she couldn't talk about it right now. He doesn't know anything, but he probably has suspicions. She would like to come up with a financial plan until D4 is in school full time in a year and she can begin working full time again. She doesn't like when I make her feel like she is out to rip me off or take our money. She tells me I'm in no way responsible for the finances of her new place.
I tell her I don't think she is out to get me. I mention that school is starting in two weeks and it would be good to break the news to the girls before then. She agrees. Then I tell her I am not trying to rush her; that I still do not agree with this move. Then I ask her if she has any doubt that this is the right thing to do. She simply says no.
So what is taking so long?
I'm just slow. And the girls ...
Then I ask her if she wants to put something on the TV. She says that would be nice.
I managed to keep my emotions and body language in check, but this conversation hurt very much. On the one hand, I do want this process, if it is inevitable, to speed up. I don't want to have her move out as our girls are starting their new school year. It is always a tough adjustment for D7 and this will only compound that. I also know that separation will make LRT and GAL much, much easier and convenient for me. And I want her to begin to feel the consequences of her decision. It's not going to be all sunshine and rainbows, I think.
On the other hand, I see our past and what I thought would be our future together as a couple and as a family flashing before my eyes. I want desperately to cling to any hope that those dreams may not be gone and I want to hold on to them forever. And our girls. Oh, our girls. They are going to be heartbroken. And me ... I'm going to miss out on half of their youth. As a SAHM, she's not going to feel the effects of this, when it comes to our Ds, nearly as much as I am. She will get to see them every day. When I work on my days with the kids, she will watch them. On her days, I'll be stuck with phone calls and FaceTime.
Thank God I have an IC appointment today. I need it.
I know, guys. I'm not detached. But I'm getting there. They pain is less than it used to be and mostly focused on how this will affect our Ds. I'm trying, but feel free to hit me with some 2x4s.
You are still taking her at her word. You can't believe anything she says! Nothing.
Then I ask her if she has any doubt that this is the right thing to do. She simply says no.
Not true. I even have doubt when I order food at a restaurant that I made the right decision. Chicken or steak? Hmmm. But she can make a life altering decision without any doubt? AIN'T BUYING IT
She is conflicted. She is trying not to show it. Yes guilt is part of it, that came through in the discussion about telling the kids. Trying to not look like the bad guy. Telling you it isn't easy for her either. Admitting to delaying because of the kids.
Remember, take everything she says with a grain of salt. I really like how you put the ownership of the discussion with the kids on her. Yes you will be there. Yes you will back up that it isn't their fault and that they are loved. But that you aren't going to accept responsibility for something you are against.
I would suggest you avoid these conversations. I would suggest you not say things like "So what is taking so long?". That is dishonest on your part. You don't want it to happen, therefore you don't want it to happen quickly. So why ask her that? Other than to pressure her into making a decision. The fact that she is sitting on this is a good thing. Everyday she doesn't move out is another day closer to her staying permanently. She doesn't have a lot of steam in her sails on this, do don't get behind and start blowing.
Here is the thing. If she leaves coming back will be harder than just staying. So don't encourage it. LBSs think that prodding them will get them to change their mind. It doesn't. Prodding them will make them more determined to do it. Also, you are thinking that discussing this will show her that it isn't "all sunshine and rainbows". She will come to that conclusion without your help. This is why we recommend you do not initiate R talks. No good comes from it.
I love reading Steve85 posts. Always gives me a boost of energy when I’m feeling deflated. Go Steve!
WillD - 4 years, really? Wow that must be so so hard to go for that long with no movement either way. You have incredible patience and stamina. Don’t give up now.
Steve:
Thank you so much. I don't think you have any idea how much this post meant to me. Your hopeful yet unbiased outsider's perspective really helped a lot. This was a rough morning, but your comments allowed me to focus on my work and realize that, yes, I shouldn't be believing what she says. Her actions do not match her words.
I would suggest you avoid these conversations. I would suggest you not say things like "So what is taking so long?". That is dishonest on your part. You don't want it to happen, therefore you don't want it to happen quickly. So why ask her that? Other than to pressure her into making a decision. The fact that she is sitting on this is a good thing. Everyday she doesn't move out is another day closer to her staying permanently. She doesn't have a lot of steam in her sails on this, do don't get behind and start blowing.
Here is the thing. If she leaves coming back will be harder than just staying. So don't encourage it. LBSs think that prodding them will get them to change their mind. It doesn't. Prodding them will make them more determined to do it. Also, you are thinking that discussing this will show her that it isn't "all sunshine and rainbows". She will come to that conclusion without your help. This is why we recommend you do not initiate R talks. No good comes from it.
You're right. I do not gain anything by initiating these conversations. I tricked myself before starting this conversation that it was not really an R talk, but more of a logistics talk. I am genuinely concerned with the timing of this move and the start of the school year, for our girls' sakes, but I didn't learn anything new with this conversation. I'm still in limbo, just feeling worse about it today than I did yesterday. I still don't know when this will happen. No more.
I talked to my IC about this today, too, and he agrees that I shouldn't bring it up anymore, which is a change of thought for him. He's usually telling me question after question after question to ask her. No more.
Anyway, thanks for making today less crappy.
uk82: Agree. Steve kills it. And no, I haven't been at this for four years. Perhaps you have confused me with someone else, or I gave you the wrong impression. I'm coming up on one year since BD in a couple of weeks, though, it does seem like longer. Thanks for chiming in. I'll go read your sitch in moment.
So it's been two weeks and guess what ... Nothing has changed. W continues to spend a few hours a week preparing her new place for occupancy. I have just been doing my thing. Hanging with my Ds when I can, acting like a friendly stranger around the house, when I can. Other times I have to put up the happy family facade or work together with W on parenting, etc.
W left her computer open today and I stupidly took a peek at it. She's ordering furniture and curtains and pots and pans for her new life. It killed me. So much for detachment. I mean, I don't feel as terrible as I did on BD one year ago, but it definitely sank my heart. I know she is doing these things, but something about seeing the evidence on the computer screen just makes me hurt. I think it's clear that I'm living more in denial than in detachment. But it just makes me so sad to think that she's sitting there shopping online for curtains for her 2BR while our Ds play beside her, clueless about how their world is going to be rocked when W finally decides to pull the pin on the grenade.
I know, I know. I shouldn't have snooped. I'll do better.
As much as it pains me to think about losing my wife and missing out on half of my children's life, part of me wishes she would just hurry up and move out, as it will make moving on so much easier for me.
I'm so confused by her. She says she is leaving. She's sure it's the right thing to do. Signed a lease. Furnishing the apartment. But she still hasn't initiated the conversation about what we are going to tell the kids. She doesn't have a timeframe in mind for moving. Is she just doing the fun stuff, like buying furniture, but avoiding the things that she doesn't want to face, like telling the kids and exposing her deceitful ways to all of our friends and family? Will that keep her from following through with this when the time comes? There are no answers, I know.
Honestly, I have been good the past two weeks. Not R talks, just doing my thing. But peeking at that computer has really got me depressed. I know you'll ask, so I am GALing. My family is coming over tonight. We'll pretend to be a happy family in front of them. Tomorrow I'm doing happy hour with some coworkers and Friday I'm taking off to take the Ds to waterpark/amusement park. Just here venting.
Our wedding anniversary is Sunday. My plan is not to even acknowledge it. I may try to play some golf in the morning and then we're going to a friend's house for a cookout. Just another day, as far as I am concerned. Let me know if you disagree with this approach.
I haven't chimed in much lately, but I"m reading the board a lot. Prayers and love to all of you who are going through similar and worse sitches.
Will, thanks for the update. Reminds me a lot of my W. Did she actually order the items or did she just look at them online. You made it sound like she ordered them.
But yes WASs try to avoid the pain of their decision, but it will eventually come crashing down on her. Maybe she will never really pull the trigger due to not wanting to face the music. I think that was a lot of the reason my W finally came around. She saw the path of least resistance was to stay rather than go. Even signing a lease is easier than the actual moving and telling people she has moved. So don't be surprised if she breaks the lease and stays. Then again, don't be surprised if she furnishes it and moves in. Anything is possible.
Keep the focus on you. Even what you found snooping, in comparison, isn't all that bad. Think about it. the posters that are snooping and finding out about EAs and PAs. When I snooped back in January and found nude photos she had sent to OM, I would have traded that for her furniture shopping for a new apartment in a heart beat!! Now I know that doesn't make you feel any better, but the point is that it could always be worse. Think of all of these things as steps in the process. Even if she follows through, how you handle it will be huge in your sitch's future.
Thanks, as always, Steve. Your perspective is priceless and invigorating.
Yes, W is making purchases. At the very least, I know she has purchased two end tables and had other items from Wayfair delivered to her new place. And with her nearly daily trips to home decor stores, I'm suspect there are other items, too.
I had a bit of a moment of weakness last night, and it involves the above-mentioned end tables. W found them for sale on Craigslist over the weekend for $20. They're vintage 1950s tables. When she returned home with them she told me that she spoke to some antique expert and he told he could sell them in his shop for $300. I asked her if she was going to sell them. She said no. And that was that.
Fast forward to last night and she showed me this picture on her Facebook feed of these two end tables that are for sale at another vintage store. "These are just like the ones I bought," she tells me. "Look at how good they look with you clean them up."
I didn't know what to say. What kind of a person does this -- rubs it in my face that she is leaving by showing me the awesome stuff she is buying for her new life?
After a moment I said, "What makes you think I want to hear about the furniture you are buying for your new place?"
W: I'm sorry. You're right. That's not fair.
Me: No, it's not that it's not fair. I just seriously want to know why you think I would want to hear about that."
W: I'm sorry. You're right.
Me (and here's where it goes downhill): I mean, I like talking with you about that stuff. I miss those conversations. I miss talking with you about those things.
(Pause)
Me: I miss you.
W: I know.
Me: I hope you will miss me someday, too.
And ... scene!
I know, not my best work. However, I think I managed to show very little, if any, emotion and honestly, I wasn't feeling too much, either. W also showed no emotion and wouldn't even look at me after my initial question.
My family arrived shortly after that and we had a nice pretend family dinner with them. W was pretty short with me and the Ds later that night after the family left, but otherwise it was a "normal" evening.
You were fine up until the pursuit and pressure....but you already know that. Telling her you don't want to hear about her furniture for the new place was appropriate.
Pressure and pursuit will almost always result in her recoiling. You should have ended it at
Me: No, it's not that it's not fair. I just seriously want to know why you think I would want to hear about that."
That was good, but you should have just walked away.
Yep. You're right twice. I should have stopped there and I knew it.
WillD78,
I always want to call you Wild Bill for some reason (maybe b/c it's awesome?).
Anyways, you're chasing a wisp of wind, a meteor shooting across the sky. Except in this case, when you don't catch it, you're hurt and your situation is worse. You become weaker in your W's eyes.
Don't give the cheating spouse the satisfaction of knowing you are still on the hook. Instead, go make the best of your life and forget about her (AKA: detach, GAL). Every day that you reaffirm she's got you is another day she controls your happiness.
She cheated and is planning to move out, let her go. Those two things make you not want your partner, but you go harder after that? She needs to be kissing your butt, but she's flipped the roles on you and like a well trained dog you have come to heel.
She's planning another life without you, why snoop? Who cares? You're holding on to a memory. The R is over. Will she come back? Who knows? Act accordingly.
As much as it pains me to think about losing my wife and missing out on half of my children's life, part of me wishes she would just hurry up and move out, as it will make moving on so much easier for me.
It will. Separation is miserable business, but after a few months you'll be getting your mojo back and wondering why you put up with all the BS for so long.
She doesn't have a timeframe in mind for moving.
Oh she probably does, she just doesn't feel obliged to tell you what it is.
Is she just doing the fun stuff, like buying furniture, but avoiding the things that she doesn't want to face, like telling the kids and exposing her deceitful ways to all of our friends and family?
If you're expecting her to spill the beans on her "deceitful ways" to anyone, well you're going to be very disappointed. The best case scenario is she won't give any explanation at all, worst case is she'll heap all the blame on you. You were a bad H, you never paid attention, you never listened, etc. etc.
Will that keep her from following through with this when the time comes?
No. At this point I'd say her leaving is a foregone conclusion, it will happen. So just prepare yourself. They don't sign a lease and buy furniture and then suddenly change their minds. She's fully in love with the fantasy of a new life and nothing will stop her now that it's so close.
Our wedding anniversary is Sunday. My plan is not to even acknowledge it. I may try to play some golf in the morning and then we're going to a friend's house for a cookout. Just another day, as far as I am concerned. Let me know if you disagree with this approach.
I don't disagree. But I will say when our anniversary came up a few months after BD (we were separated by then) I tried a slightly different approach, I told my XW "I know given our situation that exchanging gifts doesn't make sense, but it seems inappropriate to just ignore our anniversary too so how about we just go have a friendly dinner?" And we did and it was fine. I had zero expectations and of course it didn't change anything, but I did it for ME and I have no regrets. If I had done nothing then I would have felt guilty about it, but that's me. Do what you feel is best for you.
Ovrrnbw:
Wild Bill works. I've certainly been called less awesome names!
She cheated and is planning to move out, let her go. Those two things make you not want your partner, but you go harder after that? She needs to be kissing your butt, but she's flipped the roles on you and like a well trained dog you have come to heel.
She's planning another life without you, why snoop? Who cares? You're holding on to a memory. The R is over. Will she come back? Who knows? Act accordingly.
Of course I know you're right. Trying to practice self control, but when that computer was just staring me in the face, I lost it. Will get better. Thanks for weighing in!
AS: Thanks! This is a good 2x4 for me, for sure.
If you're expecting her to spill the beans on her "deceitful ways" to anyone, well you're going to be very disappointed. The best case scenario is she won't give any explanation at all, worst case is she'll heap all the blame on you. You were a bad H, you never paid attention, you never listened, etc. etc.
When I said "deceitful ways," I was referring to the charade she and I have put on the entire past year in front of most of our friends and all of our family. She knows the truth will come out, and I think she knows whose side our friends will take. She's already experiencing some of those repercussions from the handful of our friends who are in the know. Sure, I have been complicit in this phoniness, but I'm not the one leaving the family. I'm not the one who doesn't want to work on us. She knows it's not going to be fun for her. All of our closest friends are either my friends (and their wives) from before we were married or our neighbors. Perhaps I'm wrong, but if they feel like they have to choose sides -- and I won't make them choose sides -- then I'm fairly certain their loyalties will lay with me.
I don't disagree. But I will say when our anniversary came up a few months after BD (we were separated by then) I tried a slightly different approach, I told my XW "I know given our situation that exchanging gifts doesn't make sense, but it seems inappropriate to just ignore our anniversary too so how about we just go have a friendly dinner?" And we did and it was fine. I had zero expectations and of course it didn't change anything, but I did it for ME and I have no regrets. If I had done nothing then I would have felt guilty about it, but that's me. Do what you feel is best for you.
This is an interesting approach, and it appeals to me for obvious reasons (I'd get a date with my W), but I don't think the timing is right. Tomorrow is one year since BD. That's right, two days before our 11th wedding anniversary is when I got the ILYBINILWY speech. I tried in earnest to celebrate last year's anniversary and was burned. And that's when she "wasn't sure" what she wanted to do. Now she's preparing her apartment to leave. I don't see a single thing here worth celebrating. I think 18 holes and a couple of beers at a neighborhood BBQ will be perfect.
Off to happy hour with some colleagues! Onward and upward!
Hey guys. What happened to me yesterday is so unbelievable, I just have to share it with you. WWs/WAWs are truly, truly delusional. It's both sad and funny.
So ... yesterday was our 12th wedding anniversary. I made plans to golf with some friends in the morning followed by lunch. When I came home, W was just returning with our Ds from a park. We needed to pick up a photo from from Walmart's one-hour service, and W said she will do it. She told me and the girls that she is also going to Target before Walmart.
I receive an email from Walmart that our photo is ready for pickup and I text wife to let her know. She doesn't respond. I get the Ds ready to go to the pool and I remember that we need a bag of coffee for the morning. So I call W to see if she can grab it while she's at one of the two stores she's going to.
She doesn't answer the phone, but texts me back with a "copy," referring to the text I sent her 10 minutes prior about the photo, which she assumes is the reason I am calling. So I call her again -- this is about five seconds after she texted me, mind you -- and she doesn't answer yet again.
So I load the girls into the car and we head to the pool. I decide to take a different route to the pool, which will allow us to drive by OM's house and W's apartment. No one is home at OM's house. I get to W's apartment, and what do you think I find? Well it's W's car and OM's car parked right next to each other directly in front of her apartment.
Fortunately for all involved, I had my kids with me, so we just continued on to the pool. When we got there, I text W: "Pack your s--- and get out. Copy that?"
Five minutes later, she responded with, "What?"
I say: "I'm done. You're a liar. Get out of my life."
She calls me. We talk for five minutes and she denies, denies, denies. I tell her that I know what I saw. She continues to deny. She tells me that she is looking out the window and there is no one even parked next to her. This is the first time I have ever felt gaslighted. I seriously began to question what I saw. Her denials were so strong. I ask her why she won't just admit it when she was caught red-handed. She says because there is nothing to admit. She's "here alone."
We hang up and about 5 or 10 minutes later she texts me again. This time she says she was about to leave her apt, and she saw OM. "He's picking up his mom. I swear I had no idea. She must know someone in the complex."
How pathetic is that?
So, to recap: W tells me she is going to Target, instead goes to her apartment. I see OM's car parked next to hers in front of her apt. She tells me that she is there alone and that there isn't a car parked next to hers. Then she changes her story and says that OM was picking up his mom (who, BTW, is perfectly capable of driving herself) and must have moved his car.
HA HA HA! Out of all of the parking spots in the city, he just so happened to be parked in the one right in front of W's apartment at the exact same time she was lying to me about her whereabouts! WHAT ARE THE ODDS!? I mean, it's just sooooo amazing, right?
She continues texting me things like: I didn't see him. I'm not lying. I haven't seen or communicated with him since October. He wasn't here. You're accusing me of something huge here. You caught me being at the condo. That's all.
When we're back at the house she confronts me with more denial. I'm supposed to believe that this is just some random coincidence.
I tell her it doesn't matter. We're done. But it would be nice if she had the decency to simply tell the truth. She insists she is. I tell her I don't want to talk about it any more, and that is that.
Now I know what it feels to be gaslighted. It's scary.
She was oddly much more ... involved, I guess I would say, the rest of the evening. Following me around. Paying me compliments on my parenting skills. Asking to watch a particular TV show with me that evening. And now she is texting me this morning like normal.
Anyway, this was an eye-opener for me. I didn't end up kicking her out. Timing was terrible (first day of school for D7 today). But, just wow, is she gone or what?! The thing is, I almost feel bad for HER. She's so messed up.
Yep, this is spot on behavior for WWs. Do what they want. Complain and lie and deny. My favorite tactic, blaming the LBS for snooping. I love when they claim snooping is a violation of trust. As if picking up their phone and snooping is somehow worse than screwing someone else. LOL It is so absurd you have to laugh.
It is so idiotic how they can expect you to believe them after catching them in a lie. For instance, the fact that she was at the apartment to begin with WAS A LIE. Anything she says after that is not to be believed. OM's car parked next to hers. NO ITS NOT: LIE. Oh i did see OM, he was picking up his mom: LIE. She most know someone in the complex: LIE.
Read the story of David and Bathsheba sometime. The capapcity people will go to in order to cover their tracks is astounding.
I like your tough love. I would get tougher. I would give her a deadline to be out. Remember, women don't need their own place to find themselves and work on the marriage. They need their own place to sleep with other people.
Will,
You have your W in a good spot. Do not cave on kicking her out. Give her a date to be out by. If you want to W back then tough love is in order. She will fight, kick and scream, but she must know that her tactics won't work anymore, only remorse and actions. Her words don't mean anything. The only thing you will settle for is complete transparency, her cancelling her lease and moving back home, her sending a No contact letter, email, or giving the OM a no contact phone call right in front of you. She knows she is guilty because she is jumping thru hoops to try and convince you she wasn't with other man.
And Steve is 100% right, she didn't move out and get another apartment to work on the M.
Will,
You have your W in a good spot. Do not cave on kicking her out. Give her a date to be out by. If you want to W back then tough love is in order. She will fight, kick and scream, but she must know that her tactics won't work anymore, only remorse and actions. Her words don't mean anything. The only thing you will settle for is complete transparency, her cancelling her lease and moving back home, her sending a No contact letter, email, or giving the OM a no contact phone call right in front of you. She knows she is guilty because she is jumping thru hoops to try and convince you she wasn't with other man.
And Steve is 100% right, she didn't move out and get another apartment to work on the M.
^^^THIS^^^
She lied straight-up to your face, you told her to get out, then you backed down. Message to her- you're all talk and no action, and she can do whatever she wants without repercussions. I would do just as Joe says and ask her for a move-out date. Yes I know it's going to be very inconvenient, but really there's no "good" time for a separation.
Thanks, guys.
So, how do I balance this advice to give her the boot with other advice that I have heard in the past along the lines of: "If you don't want her to move out, then don't do anything to hurry it up."
I know the answer. She crossed a line. I made the threat, so I need to follow with action. It just [censored].
We talked yesterday and we agreed that she will be out in two weeks. She is hanging around to give D7 time to adjust to the new school year before throwing another adjustment at her. At this point, I am OK with this. Perhaps it's a crutch, but I really do think it's best to wait a couple more weeks for D7.
I have an IC appointment on Thursday, and I think I will set a firm date for her to move after talking it over with my therapist.
I feel like I'm going a bit crazy. One minute I hate this woman for what she has done to me and our R and our Ds, for lying to me consistently, and for so cavalierly throwing away our life together. The next minute I want to call her and tell her I love her and cuddle up with her on the couch.
And the gaslighting is real. Half the time I find myself thinking, what if she is telling the truth? What if Sunday was a coincidence? My W really can't be that much of a stone cold, heartless -- and really bad -- liar. This is such a bad lie, so outlandish, that I almost find myself believing it.
Why is she lying? She's signed a lease. She has told me she is leaving me. Why lie about this? SMH. Makes no sense.
OK. Go ahead and 2x4 me.
W,
You have to show her with actions that you are not putting up with this BS anymore. Tell her you need a firm date on when she will be leaving. I know you don't want this but her leaving will be the best thing for you right now. It will be difficult at first but you will adjust to your new life.Time and space is going to be the only things to turn this around.
She is lying because she doesn't want to me known as a cheater. They all want to end it with everyone believing that they are the victim because of the way the LBS treated them. She doesn't want your kids to find out when they are older.
You will survive and thrive if you choose to do the work on yourself.
LH and all,
Thank you.
I did it last night. It's still up in the air whether it will be this weekend or next weekend, but the drop dead date for her to move out is Sept. 8. I pushed for this Saturday, but she wants to tell our girls the news this weekend and then give them a week to process it before she leaves. I didn't commit to that, but my plan is to talk that over tomorrow with my IC, who is a family therapist, and see what he recommends. Whatever he and I decide will be in the best interest of our girls is what we will do.
Either way, they will be devastated. And I can't even type those words without tears welling up in my eyes. What kind of a woman does this to her kids without trying everything she can to save our family?! It fills me with sadness for my girls and anger toward W.
The conversation itself went OK. W got defensive but remained calm during the first phase of it. I was firm but calm. Yesterday I discovered that she was browsing sexy lingerie on Amazon. That piece of information coupled with OM's car parked at her townhouse on Sunday, I said, was enough for me to realize that I'm done and that she needs to be gone and soon. The talk was short. Later, she came to me crying, saying that she buys that stuff for herself; to feel good about herself and that it was for no one else other than herself. She felt that I had invaded her privacy. I told her I can understand why she feels that way and that I'm sorry she feels that way, but I think me looking at her Amazon history pales in comparison to what she is doing to our family. I know, not the best response. She cried for about 20 minutes. I remained stoic and calm. She went to bed about an hour early. And that was that.
IC tomorrow morning. Lord help me. The next few weeks are going to be rough for so many reasons.
Either way, they will be devastated. And I can't even type those words without tears welling up in my eyes. What kind of a woman does this to her kids without trying everything she can to save our family?! It fills me with sadness for my girls and anger toward W.
Hey, this is where the rubber meets the road. In my sitch, my wife's fantasy about moving out was actually not as strong as the fact that she didn't want to face our daughter. So every time I pushed to say, "We need to tell D soon about all of this, and your plan." She would immediately back down. I have a feeling that before this weekend she will begin to hedge. As the weekend gets closer, the likelihood she starts lobbying for more time will increase.
And she will have "valid" reasons. "I don't want to do it so close to the start of school." "Blah blah blah." Also, she will try to buy more time but that doesn't necessarily mean that she will be willing to give up OM and the apartment idea. STICK TO THAT BOUNDARY. "You call OM in my presence and issue a no contact edict. Further you agree to full transparency in all forms of communication. AND you break the lease on the apartment, and we sleep in the same bed."
She will try to wiggle out of this. She will try to call your bluff. Don't give her the wiggle room, stand firm.
Thanks, Steve. I hope you're right, but I really think she's ready to do it. Either way, I will stick to my guns. I don't want this, but I'm ready to face it. Appreciate your insight and support more than you know.
Hi Will, I´m sorry about your latest discoveries. It really s@cks. Wayward rebelion may be based on selfishness and stocked resentments. Sometimes there are unsolved related things from the past that come afloat developing MLCs. Sandi´s written a lot about the staff. So, whatever the outcome, you need to regain respect from your W first. That means you making all steps forward.
Stand strong Will
Thanks, neffer.
It's happening. She's moving out on Saturday. I have mixed emotions about it. Here they are:
1. Sadness. I felt great yesterday. The weight of the situation is finally taking a toll on W. She was a depressed mess all last evening. I took no joy in this, but it was helpful for me to see that her emotionless wall is beginning to crack. But today, reality has set in and I hurt very badly for my failed MR and especially my Ds who will have their world rocked in two days.
2. Anger. W refuses to see an IC. I see one who is a family therapist. He helps me understand what is in our Ds best interest and W telling them she is leaving and then actually leaving that same day is not in their best interest. Despite me expressing this to her, she is adamant about leaving on Saturday. Fine. A large part of me is very ready for her to be gone, but I'm so angry at how unbelievably selfish she is being in regards to our Ds' best interest. I have been asking her to plan an exit strategy with me for two months. She's too afraid to confront her own decisions and talk about them. She would rather just do and force me to deal with the mess she creates.
3. Anxiousness. I am dreading this transition period to the new normal for a lot of reasons. Having to defend this situation to my Ds when it's not what I want and I don't support it. Watching them experience this will be heart wrenching. I don't know how I can be strong for them, but I will find a way. Telling my friends and family and biting my tongue about W's true role in this. Having to rehash it over and over again with my friends and family. Spending nights alone, without my family, in our home. Getting lost in my thoughts about the future I thought we would have now being nothing but a memory.
4. Relief. I will be glad to have this huge step in this process behind me.
5. Hopeful and slightly excited about the future. I'm looking forward to truly rediscovering myself and doing some things that I want to do. Truly GAL when I'm not with my children and especially when we are together. Taking them to new places. Making new daddy-daughter memories. Giving them the best life I possibly can. My future is bright, with or without W. I'm at least above the 50th percentile in smarts, success, and looks. I could stand to lose a few pounds, but I know that I have a better me and a better relationship at some point in my future.
Please send me your thoughts and prayers, if you're the praying type, this weekend. I'll need them. Thank you all. Love to you all.
It´s ok to have mixed emotions. Just keep the good ones kicking.
Moving forward. Get the strength.
Sending you a big hug. Keep the lighthouse shining.
WD,
I am really sorry you are going through this right now.
I just went through what you are about to go through and with most fears in life they are never half as bad as you imagine them.
I thought telling the kids would be the worst day of my life. Turns out it wasn't so bad. My daughter and Ex cried for a bit and then we all went over to my exs new house to check out their rooms and stuff. The kids were even laughing at one point.
Being alone on certain days. Wasn't sure how it was going to be because I was rarely alone when we were family. Turns out I love it and actually look forward to it.
Having my W gone. Turns out it's great knowing that the attitude of the house doesn't revolve around what kinda mood she is in. It's like Disney land at my house with my kids and I and we enjoy are time together.
Finding someone else. When the time is right you will eventually find some else who will want and choose to be with you. Lose those extra pounds and work to become a 10 %er.
Divorce isn't as bad as people make it out to be as long as you and your W can communicate and be in the same room together with no drama.
This is the end of a chapter in your life but not the end of the story. You are in complete control over how the book ends.
Be the rock for your kids!
Thanks, guys. The kindness of absolute strangers on this forum is overwhelming, especially considering what my supposed loved one is doing to me right now ... and the general cesspool that is the internet. Just thank you for your support.
It's happening. She's moving out on Saturday. I have mixed emotions about it. Here they are:
Of course you are going to run through all those emotions, and many more! I know this is tough, but once you get through this part things get much easier day-by-day. Like you said, settling into that "new normal" is the key.
2. Anger. W refuses to see an IC. I see one who is a family therapist. He helps me understand what is in our Ds best interest and W telling them she is leaving and then actually leaving that same day is not in their best interest. Despite me expressing this to her, she is adamant about leaving on Saturday. Fine. A large part of me is very ready for her to be gone, but I'm so angry at how unbelievably selfish she is being in regards to our Ds' best interest. I have been asking her to plan an exit strategy with me for two months. She's too afraid to confront her own decisions and talk about them. She would rather just do and force me to deal with the mess she creates.
Understandable. All you can do is be the best dad possible to your kids, be their rock in this tough time.
3. Anxiousness. I am dreading this transition period to the new normal for a lot of reasons. Having to defend this situation to my Ds when it's not what I want and I don't support it. Watching them experience this will be heart wrenching. I don't know how I can be strong for them, but I will find a way.
Well keep in mind that while you are losing your W 100% of the time, they're only losing their mom for part of the time. It's not like they're never going to see either of you again, you will both be there for them. I expected my kids to be devastated when XW moved out, but surprisingly they were excited about having two places to live. They wanted to show me how they had set up their rooms at her place. It was surreal. So love and support them, but don't be surprised if they're not as despondent as you think they will be. And if they are, then it may be a good idea to get them in counseling for a while.
Spending nights alone, without my family, in our home.
That was the hardest part for me. That first week that XW had the kids, wow. The girls even wanted to take the dog so it was literally just me there in the house alone for the first time ever in that house we had bought new together 15 years before. I didn't know a house and a bed could feel so utterly empty. But that is the time to double down on GAL. I did everything I could to get out of the house and do things. At first I had to force myself, but eventually I began to enjoy it. Now my two D's have grown and moved out. I still have my S every other week, but he's 15 and pretty independent. So I have a lot of alone time. And I've come to love it! I work out, I tinker with stuff in the garage, I work on my art. I miss my XW 0% of the time now. I love stretching out in the bed, staying up late if I want, watching a movie and cranking up the surround sound, going for a motorcycle ride on the spur of the moment. I have a GF, but I don't need her. She's just someone that now and then comes along for the ride that is my awesome life. You'll get there too. It takes time, it takes pain, it takes hard work. But you will get there.
Getting lost in my thoughts about the future I thought we would have now being nothing but a memory.
Yup. Life is not on board with our hopes and dreams and wishes and plans. It has it's own agenda, and it will slap you down just about the time you think you have it figured out. This experience changed my perception, now I take life a day at a time.
I'm looking forward to truly rediscovering myself and doing some things that I want to do. Truly GAL when I'm not with my children and especially when we are together. Taking them to new places. Making new daddy-daughter memories. Giving them the best life I possibly can. My future is bright, with or without W. I'm at least above the 50th percentile in smarts, success, and looks. I could stand to lose a few pounds, but I know that I have a better me and a better relationship at some point in my future.
Awesome, that's the spirit
WillD,
I am at the exact same point. WW has been having affair for 4 months now and she said last night was her last she is moving out. I do feel I am at a new low after a few solid weeks of DBing but this is the only true way I know if she ever wants to come back.
I know it will make things easier in the long run because not having her around reduces any anxiety that I have when we are in the room together or if/when she will walk in door. I have been working on me and this will give me more opportunity to do so.
And yeah it stinks big time, but I plan on taking it in small steps. Get out there meet new people, enjoy my kids, do some things that I had to ask permission to do before.
I feel like I owe you guys an update because everyone has been so great to me here. Nothing good, but here's the latest. It's long and boring. But I'm moving along ...
We decided to tell the kids last weekend and then W would make the move at some point in the next few days. We had a really nice lunch out as a family last Saturday. It was just lovely. As we are walking into our home after lunch, W says: "Do you want to talk to the girls now?" Talk about surreal. Anyway, that was one of the worst days of my life. D7 cried and just kept repeating, "No, I don't want to!" W had the wall up big time and was stoic. I'm sure our girls could feel my pain.
After a the tears, our Ds were actually excited about now having two places to live. Then came the questions and anxiety from D7: What if I don't make any friends there? Will we still eat dinner together as a family? That second one ripped my heart out all over again.
Week goes on and then on Friday W tells me VIA TEXT that she is leaving that night. Just classic. We tuck the girls into bed and she leaves. I had a whiskey and watched a comedy film.
Saturday morning the girls get up and they're wondering where mommy is. I explain. W shows up so that we can all go see her apartment. I insisted on seeing it before I allowed the girls to stay there. Let's just say that it's not anything like we're used to. It actually made me feel bad for W. She asked if the place was good enough? I shouldn't have said it, but I said, "Yeah, but is it good enough for you?" W: "What do you mean?" Me: "Well I wouldn't want to live here." I know. Rude. I apologized a bit later and said, "You did a really nice job with the girls room. It looks nice." And it's true. The place may be a dump, but it's safe and the girls loved their new room. I need them to be happy there.
I took the girls to a college football game that afternoon. We left at halftime, came home, and W took the girls for the night to her place. They were sad to leave me, but W said they got over that quickly.
I knew I would be in a bad place, so I had a friend on standby to come over. He came by and we had cigars and beers on the deck while watching football. W texts me about 90 minutes after she left. She just realized that she doesn't have any cookware or knives and wanted to "borrow" a frying pan and knife. "Sure," I say. She brings the girls over and grabs what she needs. The girls are excited about new toys and clothes that W bought them for their new house. They leave after 5 minutes. About an hour later, W texts again: "I need help." She's sick and needs to go to urgent care. Drops the girls off again. They stay for an hour and she comes back to get them. She has a UTI. I head over to my friend's (neighbor) house for some pizza and then back home to bed.
Sunday, I wake up feeling pretty down, but I get busy around the house. Cleaning, moving things around. The doorbell rings. It's my FIL. Guess what? He doesn't know ANYTHING. So I have to tell him because he wonders why the house is empty at 8:30 on a Sunday morning. He is sad. We were the last people he thought this would ever happen to. He wants to stay close with me.
Then I do some grocery shopping for the week. Visit my parents. Mow the yard. And at 4pm the girls are back. They didn't sleep well. Their new beds are uncomfortable. They miss their rooms. We play outside in the sprinkler. They watch some cartoons. They miss mommy. I prep dinner. D4 cries for mommy. She asks if mommy is coming to eat dinner with us. D7 tries to be strong, but I can see the sadness on her face. I hug her. She breaks down in my arms. I can't do this, I think. I can't stand to see my children hurting like this because of the failures of their parents, and mostly their mommy who doesn't even have to witness any of this pain. It rips my heart apart. I give in and text W: "The kids are a mess. Can you come see them?" I justify this in my head. It's the first night. This is a transition. It truly was for my girls' and not me. She comes over and it's happy fun time for an hour until bed. She helps me tuck them in to bed. Then leaves with tears in her eyes, and asks me to update her when they fall asleep because D7 has a sore throat and my be getting sick. W texts 20 minutes later. I tell her the girls are asleep. She says thank you. I text back: "Are you OK?" She doesn't respond.
This morning was hard. Not emotionally, just the new routine of being a single dad. Getting breakfast. Feeding the dog. Brushing teeth and hair. Making sure everyone is ready for school. Looks like I'll need to get up an hour earlier than normal. So today was a good practice for the new normal. D7 wanted to see mommy, so I tell W to meet us at the school for drop off. The girls are happy to see her. Then I take D4 to preschool. She was happy. I forgot her water bottle. Oh well, not too bad for the first morning on my own.
I have my Ds tonight and Tuesday night, too. Then back to W's house for two nights. I just hope they can adjust to this OK. W still won't see an IC. I can't make her, but I am worried about her emotional well-being. Even her dad didn't know what was going on. She has only told one friend, as far as I know. She needs to talk to someone, but it's out of my hands now. I must try to be strong for my Ds and hopefully we can get through tonight without having to call mommy to come over.
Thanks all for your support.
Selfishness. That´s the common denominator on WWs minds. I was one of those...
Sending you and your girls a big hug.
Keep DB, you´ll get stronger as time goes by.
Thanks, neffer. Really appreciate it. A lot.
Just a brief update:
My Ds were great last night. A few tears when I picked them up from W, but they were gone quickly and didn't return. We had a great evening together and, even at bedtime, they were happy and singing. I really needed that to happen, and they did, too.
Saw W this morning at the school to drop off D4 to be with her during my workday. I felt nothing toward W other than some anger and disgust. I've read enough here to know that I'm probably not really detached at this point, but it sure feels like I am right this minute. And I know my feelings may change later today, tomorrow, or next week. But right now, I feel nothing for her. We had a great life. A great family. Great times together. And she threw it away for what? To live alone in a dumpy 2BR apartment by herself. Because she can't figure out her own emotional issues. It's just ridiculous. I hope she gets some help. I'm ready to move on. The only sadness I feel right now is for my Ds. That's the first time I haven't felt sad about my sitch with W in almost 13 months. And that feels really good.
Those feelings will come and go Will. Just keep in mind how to keep DBing when that happens. Moving forward man.
Thanks. I DBed the heck out of this encounter. Ha ha! Smile and "good morning" to W. Hugs and goodbyes to kids. Then "Later" to W, and I'm on my way to the office.
OK, DBers. I get to ask for some advice. Yay.
W texted me to say that she is going to take our Ds to the local high school homecoming parade tomorrow and invited me along. I replied with "Thanks. I'll think about it."
I had plans to play poker with some friends tomorrow, but they fell through. Earlier today I actually looked up the parade to see when it was so that I could take the girls myself, and I was bummed to see that it was on W's day.
So, do I go? I feel like this is completely about spending time with my Ds on my W's day, doing an activity Ds love, and giving them some family time ... but I may very well be fooling myself. I've done that before. Keep in mind, we just officially separated Friday. I'm thinking I go to spend time with the Ds and have no expectations, but it's so early on in the separation, what do I do????
Thanks.
You find something else to do. Then tell her you're busy. D's will say "I wish Dad were here!" WAW has to deal with that as a consequence of her decision to separate.