Previous thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2798811&#Post2798811This evening, someone in her family pointed out to me that she appears to be playing some kind of game...
I would post something on fb about how I feel, then W would post something on her fb that she knew would likely be sent to me, and would upset me. I'd post a pic of myself with S, then within a few minutes she would post a pic of her with S. Then it just goes back and forth.
Yes, I have her blocked. Yes, she has me blocked.
My entire life is really weird.
Today has actually been really great.
I got a surprise visit from my older two kids from my first M. That was a great surprise.
I think all of the bs has been helping me detach more and more, because I'm at a point right now that I really don't care anymore what W is doing. Obviously she cares what I think to be watching me so closely, but I think everyone has a point where they say eff it and just stop caring so much.
Maybe that's a good thing. Maybe not. I know the DB principles are good, and they are becoming part of my life in general. So I know that no matter what happens, I'm going to be just fine.
I know there's still some emotional stuff to sort out inside my head, and I know there's still the court stuff to go through.
Honestly...at this point I'm just going to do what I know I need to do and let W figure her own mess out.
I feel better right now. I still wish things were different, but that's not anything I can control. I'm just gonna do me, and see what shakes out.
I was catching up with your previous thread. Steve said some pretty wise things. I just want to add my 2c. IMO you are spending too much time / energy / focus on your W's friend. IMO you should focus on what's essential for your son and yourself.
Probably so. The thing with him is that that would be a totally separate legal battle outside of the realm of the D.
Right now, I'm focused on staying out of legal trouble. They've definitely complicated things. And as long as I keep doing what I'm doing, it'll all be fine, and that'll allow me to see S sooner.
You are starting to sound a lot better.
Yeah. I am feeling a lot better in a way. I think I just got tired of silly games. It just all feels insulting.
So in a way I'm a lot better. In a way...it really is the most horrible thing I can imagine.
I dunno. I have no idea what the future holds, and as far as the R goes, I feel completely defeated.
But I guess we'll see what happens in the future.
blackmac, I have told OrangeK multiple times that restraining orders are almost a blessing in disguise. Obviously nobody wants one put on them, especially unwarranted. But it does put you into a forced detachment physically, which helps immensely with emotional detachment.
it does make some logistics difficult though (which can cause you to spend too much time thinking about your W), and it can also make DBing difficult because you don't see the point. But remember, GAL is for you! Detachment is for you! 180s are for you! That is how you get better through this. They also sometimes have the side benefit of making your WAW take notice. But the latter should never be the focus or your changes will be genuine.
This evening, someone in her family pointed out to me that she appears to be playing some kind of game...
Quit talking to her family about your sitch. I mean 100% QUIT IT. It is not helping you, and it WILL get back to your W and she will view that as you being controlling and manipulative.
I would post something on fb about how I feel, then W would post something on her fb that she knew would likely be sent to me
You have her blocked, so why are you doing this? Who is sharing her info with you? STOP IT!!!!!! You blocked her so you could AVOID this stuff. Whoever is sharing it, just tell them to stop. Tell them you blocked her because it is part of your process of moving on and you don't want them or anyone else sharing her stuff with you.
I'd post a pic of myself with S, then within a few minutes she would post a pic of her with S. Then it just goes back and forth.
What do you mean "back and forth"? What that means to me is that you think she is doing this stuff to irk you, and you are retaliating. You've got to get off the roller coaster. You need to quit caring about what she posts on FB, and you need to quit posting stuff on FB with the hopes that she'll see it and react. This is all very passive/ aggressive. From now on post stuff because you want to post it and don't give a second thought to what she'll think of it. And stop snooping on her posts.
In short, DETACH!!!!!
I don't post things hoping it'll get back to her. I post things, and that's it. My motive isn't to get things to her.
I don't care what she posts. This "posting back and forth" stuff is past. I didn't realize it was even a thing until someone pointed it out. So yeah, I get what you're telling me to do...which is exactly what I have been doing. I'm speaking of things in hindsight.
I only post things because I want to post them. I DON'T care what she thinks of my posts. I haven't for a long time. All I'm saying is that apparently she does, which isn't my problem.
bm, it sounds like a big problem is just the fact that you are both on FB to begin with. Why don't you try to temporarily suspend your FB account and see if things improve?
I had thought about it, but I have pages that I run related to some websites that I manage.
Just a question...I may have asked this, or it may have been said before...but I can't remember...
Is it normal for a WW to check up on you just to see if you're letting go? Like, they get mad at you if you're still hurting at all?
If so, is that like a thing that they expect you to just get over them almost instantly so that they don't have to feel guilty about what they're doing?
Just trying to understand things a bit clearer.
Why should you care is the real question?
If you care, your mindset is wrong. Detach completely.
GAL, all day every day.
I know. I'm just trying to understand this better.
Is it normal for a WW to check up on you just to see if you're letting go? Like, they get mad at you if you're still hurting at all?
If so, is that like a thing that they expect you to just get over them almost instantly so that they don't have to feel guilty about what they're doing?
Yes, it is common.
Thanks, Sandi. I wonder...when you're completely detached, it seems as though they would (of course, here I am trying to be logical in an illogical situation...hahaha) justify that you've given them what they want, so they don't feel guilty? Or...
You know, I can't even pretend that I understand the "logic" there. hahaha.
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you detach > they see you ok, which justifies it to them and they maybe come back...?
you don't > they see you hurt, they feel bad...and they do more
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That's just about the most backwards sounding thing I've ever heard! Hahaha!
Really, I'm doing fine this morning. I stumbled across W dating profile saying she was "super spontaneous" and had a "heart of gold"...and at first it stung. Later on I decided that you know...I know that's total BS (the heart of gold thing), so I decided to look at it as kind of funny instead. I think that made a bit of difference in how I feel this morning.
Trying to move on. I know I can't save this M on my own (ultimately we can turn it around, but the reality is that no M can work without both partners wanting to work at it). In the meantime, meeting new people and going out and doing things would probably do me some good. I don't have any plans to do anything crazy, but I've got to get out of the house.
Who knows what will happen. I did fill out some information to try to get legal aid, since I can't afford to just outright pay an A to get this handled.
You know, I still wish it could work. And maybe one day it will.
But today is not that day. So I'm just going to do the best I can to be content with me.
you detach > they see you ok, which justifies it to them and they maybe come back...?
you don't > they see you hurt, they feel bad...and they do more
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You are looking at it wrong.
you detach > they see you ok [bold]which shows them you are strong, you confident, you don't need them and they maybe come back because they respect strength, confidence and independence. And when they respect a man they are attracted to him.[/bold]
you don't > they see you hurt [bold]which shows them you are weak, you are uncertain, you are clingy and they do more because they do not respect weak, uncertain, clingy men. And when they don't respect a man then they aren't attracted to him either[/bold]
I haven't yet heard evidence W is wayward at all.
V
I haven't yet heard evidence W is wayward at all.
Can you elaborate? If you have questions, I'll be glad to fill you in on the details.
Often I post afterthoughts, things I just want to understand more. It's a bit tricky sometimes to follow because of my ADHD. So if you want specifics, ask.
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W just contacted me via her sister to try to schedule times for me to see S this coming weekend, and W is demanding that I keep him an extra day to fit her schedule. I told her sister that I would be glad to, but we had agreed to stick to Fri 6pm - Sun 6pm, and I also agreed to meet up at a pd with monitored spaces. Of course, W doesn't want to do that, and now I'm being attacked for wanting to stick to a consistent schedule.
Yeah. She expects me to jump for her after she left and started sleeping around. I don't know.
What do you recommend I do here?
What evidence do you have that there was an A before she left?
Has she OM?
V
She confirmed to me there was an EA with one of my coworkers before she left. A couple years before, I found out she had been flirting with her exbf. Less than a week after moving out, she hooked up with a coworker from my pt job. A week after that, I found a used condom at her apartment on top of the trash can (she asked me to stay and watch S while she worked).
Currently, she has multiple A with multiple OM/OW. She is not in one steady A, but she confirmed more than 3, and likely quite a few more that she eluded to, but not confirmed.
W just contacted me via her sister to try to schedule times for me to see S this coming weekend, and W is demanding that I keep him an extra day to fit her schedule. I told her sister that I would be glad to, but we had agreed to stick to Fri 6pm - Sun 6pm, and I also agreed to meet up at a pd with monitored spaces. Of course, W doesn't want to do that, and now I'm being attacked for wanting to stick to a consistent schedule.
This discussion is still ongoing. I said I would keep S the extra day this weekend (despite my knowledge that she'll most likely go party Sunday night), but I expected her to be more consistent going forward.
She basically then said I can either do what she says, or I won't see S this weekend.
I restated that I would do it this weekend.
That wasn't good enough. Now she wants that schedule to be ongoing, and accused me of being inconsistent...even though I have only asked her once to change the schedule for Father's Day, and she declined.
I conceded that I would do it this weekend, and consider the future scheduling.
I feel like she's still going to object unless she gets her way completely.
I want to spend more time with S, but every time I have done that, she keeps demanding more and threatening to keep S away from me.
Do I stand my ground here, or do I give in? She has said "this isn't negotiable."
Grab every day you can with your child.
As much time as you can, every day if you can.
Your child is not a ping pong, his needs come first. And since at this time you are the more stable parent that's great. If she offers you extra on an ongoing basis say thank you and have terrific time.
Your child is for life.
Stand firm on having your child as much as you can. Dads can be the best parent, there are examples here of that.
Great dads.
V
I don't know much about your situation but I agree about conversing with family and Facebook. Remove them immediately. They should understand. This is turning legal, please don't things won't get ugly bc you are close with family. just be wise.
You're right, it's turning legal. Since I didn't give her the answer she wanted to hear before 3 PM (her arbitrary time constraint), she decided that I don't get to see S this weekend.
She was at work at the time she decided that. So I tried to find out where S is and who he's with (because she has let one of her OM babysit him before, and it was past S "normal" bedtime). She has refused to tell me that information.
So yeah. She's making a mess out of this legally.
She refuses to pass information about S through anyone except her sister.
Well, once I lock down A, she can pass information through him/her.
I hate this situation. This is really bad.
So why didn't you answer?
You play the game and call her bluff. You created your own difficulty with this. Can't you see that by saying yes to having your son you are winning more time, setting precedent for the court?
All you have shown is that you aren't interested. If you were you would be biting her hand off to have more time with your child.
There are mums and dads here who would give their right arm for more time with their child and establish more parental rights.
Children come first.
V
I DID answer. But I was going back and forth between her sister, and trying to work it out. W was slow to respond. So I DID answer, and I DID agree to it.
That's the thing.
OK.
I get it.
Thank you for the clarification.
V
So you called her bluff and she didn't like it. I apologise for misunderstanding, in future I will ask clean questions before jumping in. Lesson learned by V.
I would find it helpful if you could complete your bio, the bit at the bottom. Go to mystuff drop dowm and edit, it will help more posters post to you. Not everyone is like V and reads all the threads.
So clean questions:
Is there any way to find out where S actually is? Have you Skype facilities?
And despite your ADHD you are documenting aren't you?
Have you spoken to an L about custody?
V
Have you considered an online Calendar?
V
Myfamilywizard is popular on the board as it holds all emails etc.
Easy to set up and the courts have access if one parent permits.
V
Right now, I'm pretty sure that S is at home with W. As for who has been watching him, I don't know. I've tried to get that info from W, but she won't tell me that information.
I am documenting things, yes.
I am still working to get an L, waiting for a callback. The free legal help office is slow, and unfortunately there's no way I can get the money to hire one outright. Once I get an L, I'm absolutely going to talk to them about it at this point. I had hoped to avoid that, but W has shown she cares more about getting what she wants than being a responsible parent.
I do have an online calendar that I use for keeping track of my dates to have S.
Just a quick update...I get to see S this weekend!
Apparently W sister may have cut W off because she saw through the bs.
So W texted me today to try to set this up. She said "it was a mistake to go through my sister, but I didn't expect you to be so obstinate."
We agreed to meet at the PD so that I can get S. She said she'll probably bring a friend, too. I didn't argue. I just said I'll see her there.
I'm glad that I'm going to spend time with him.
I also got a call back from legal aid, they are trying to find an attorney referral for me. Perhaps in the future we can avoid situations like this altogether.
Right now, I'm pretty sure that S is at home with W. As for who has been watching him, I don't know. I've tried to get that info from W, but she won't tell me that information.
I am documenting things, yes.
I am still working to get an L, waiting for a callback. The free legal help office is slow, and unfortunately there's no way I can get the money to hire one outright. Once I get an L, I'm absolutely going to talk to them about it at this point. I had hoped to avoid that, but W has shown she cares more about getting what she wants than being a responsible parent.
I do have an online calendar that I use for keeping track of my dates to have S.
Excellent.
V
Glad you are getting to see S.
Have awesome D and S time.
I have read between the lines that you are in the UK. Football is everywhere so that's a great dad and S activity at the moment.
Be prepared to record if you think you are being set up.
If you are in the UK and the OM made false accusations consider a pre action protocol letter asking for compensation for the Tort of the false accusation. It will stop it from happening again, or at minimum it can be mentioned somewhere in the D docs. That if it happens again you will consider legal action for damages using a no win no fee solicitor and will be seeking your costs on an indemnity basis.
My thoughts
V
Thank you, but I'm in the US. Heh.
When I met W at the PD, I did record audio. The PD does video recording, but I wanted to have all of my bases covered. Fortunately, it went smoothly. W was acting kind of weird...she had her arms crossed tightly and avoided eye contact. And also, she brought cupcakes for us.
I think she's starting to understand (after the exchange with her sis) that she's messing up pretty bad. She was civil, but just appeared really insecure.
Not my problem though.
S and I had a good evening playing with cars and dinosaurs! We had some cookies, and he seemed excited to see me, which was great. He told me he loves me like 10 times before he FINALLY went to sleep.
He's an awesome little guy.
I'm really grateful that she decided to play a bit nicer, although it's probably only because she knows she's violated the court order. Also...not my problem.
I'm looking forward to a nice weekend with S here with me.
Thank you, but I'm in the US. Heh.
When I met W at the PD, I did record audio. The PD does video recording, but I wanted to have all of my bases covered. Fortunately, it went smoothly. W was acting kind of weird...she had her arms crossed tightly and avoided eye contact. And also, she brought cupcakes for us.
I think she's starting to understand (after the exchange with her sis) that she's messing up pretty bad. She was civil, but just appeared really insecure.
Not my problem though.
S and I had a good evening playing with cars and dinosaurs! We had some cookies, and he seemed excited to see me, which was great. He told me he loves me like 10 times before he FINALLY went to sleep.
He's an awesome little guy.
I'm really grateful that she decided to play a bit nicer, although it's probably only because she knows she's violated the court order. Also...not my problem.
I'm looking forward to a nice weekend with S here with me.
Your wonderful little S is going to be glorious to be with.
I love reading dad and S stories. Your S is going to be your S for all your life. That precious child is in your life for the whole of your life.
Awesome dad.
V
Had a good weekend with S. We went to the donut shop for breakfast this morning, and then I took him to the day care this morning so W could pick him up. There are toys EVERYWHERE at my apartment. Heh.
I really wish that he could be here every night like he was when W and I were together. I miss having them both here.
I'm still waiting to hear back from the legal aid office to find out if they have an A referral for me.
Only two things bothered me this weekend: 1) he didn't have quite enough clothes in his overnight bag, but we were able to manage. 2) S was asking if I could go to his friend's house (his friends parents are the two that have been pushing W to leave me for a couple of years). I told him that I couldn't. He wanted to know why, so I had to figure out how to tell him that I wasn't allowed to go over there anymore. Unfortunately, I had to try to explain that if I go there, they would call the police. He didn't seem to understand, he said "but you're not a bad guy...".
I had to change the subject. I may have told him too much, but I also don't want to lie to him about why I can't go there anymore. That's a tricky conversation to have with an almost 4 year old.
I didn't talk bad about W or her friends, only that they (W's friends) say that I'm a bad guy. He knows that I'm not.
I need to research things like how to have hard conversations with a child. I tried to keep it simple, and I tried to not have to go into any details with him.
I hope that doesn't have any really negative effects. Although I know that this whole D sitch will have some either way.
He told me that he loved me, and I said "I love you, too." He then said "And I love mommy!" so I said "I love mommy, too."
And that's true. I guess I still do in a way. I don't want him to think any differently. He says that he misses living with both of us. I do, too. I wish things were different.
As for W, I believe that I'm about as detached as I can be right now. I don't care what she's up to at all, and I don't plan to try to find out. It's not my problem.
Right now, I have some major financial issues to deal with since she left and I lost my job. I'm afraid that I won't be able to find suitable paying work in this area, but I can't afford to relocate (and I honestly don't want to because of S). In the past few months, my credit has completely tanked, and I'm starting to get to where the money from my severance is getting tighter. My first priority this week is find some kind of income. Even if it's not ideal...because realistically I will need to make over 20/hr to cover the bills that were left behind.
If I get an A referral this week, I'm going to work on getting some set orders in place for visitation (because it seems that to W the verbal agreements aren't going to be honored unless she gets everything she wants).
I'm a little stressed out, to say the least. But I am still confident that I can make something work out with the job search. Kind of.
I really wish that he could be here every night like he was when W and I were together. I miss having them both here.
I had to change the subject. I may have told him too much, but I also don't want to lie to him about why I can't go there anymore. That's a tricky conversation to have with an almost 4 year old.
I need to research things like how to have hard conversations with a child. I tried to keep it simple, and I tried to not have to go into any details with him.
Miss it too. S3 mentions it a lot, missing living with us all. He mentioned missing living at the apartment we shared.
When he asks why we dont live there anymore i just say "Mommy wanted to move back home with Grandma"
Having to her S3 talk about OM never gets any easier either.
its hard to not lie, but also pad the truth.
Definitely pad the truth. I don't talk about W negatively with him around. In my sitch, there's not just one OM. It's multiple OM and OW that kind of just come and go, because W isn't looking for a relationship, she's only worried about having her fun.
I suppose that does make it a little bit easier in one aspect...I don't have to have talks with S about anyone trying to replace me...lol.
I wonder though if S is going to ask W or her friends why they think I'm a bad guy...lol. That's gonna be an awkward conversation for them.
Not that I hope he does, but I mean, they kind of created this mess.
Dunno what the future is going to be like. I'm just trying to do the best I can for S.
That's all you can do.
WW is highly manipulative and extremely wayward. Nothing good can come of it. It takes it's toll on the body.
I think the best thing to say to S, is that dad has a new life and new friends because mummies friends are her best friends now. Ask who his best friend is and ask if he shares his best friend.
Be age appropriate and never lie to children. If you do then you are an adult they can't trust. At this point your lovely S4 has a stable adult in his life and that is you.
V
W texted me about S's appointment. I wasn't able to make it today, but I did call the Dr and let them know that he would be there without me.
She let me know that the therapy is going well and he seems to be making progress with it so far.
That's really good news. W asked if I would take him next week, I told her I would be glad to, and thanked her for letting me know.
I feel like being detached is starting to slowly work out...either that or her sister called her out on her behavior last week. Maybe both. Going to think it's the latter though.
Now to keep on keepin' on with the GAL/Detach stuff.
Still detaching, but things seem to be going okay with that. I stopped talking to people on FB about the sitch. I also stopped venting about it on there as well.
Yesterday I got a text from W telling me about a job that someone told her about that I might be able to get into.
"Good afternoon. Not sure if you're still looking for another job, but I heard that a couple positions are about to open up at (name withheld) here in town. Have a great day."
I just replied "Thanks for the heads up, I'll look into it. Have a great day, too."
That's it. It was kind of random.
Not reading into it. But it was kind of...strange...is she still watching me to see what I'm doing? Is she actually concerned? I dunno. Doesn't matter, because I'm gonna be fine either way.
But it is interesting in a way. Definitely not the kind of text I expected from her at all.
blackmac- believe only none of what they say and half of what they do. Proceed with caution and try not to read into anything she does. Most of all- stay positive!
Whatever happens in R, it is in your W interest that you have the best sources of income and a great work environment. It's clearly in yours too.
I would think no more than that.
V
Oh, I don't think at all beyond that. Just updating.
Just going to keep doing what I'm doing.
Hi everyone, I know it's been a bit since my last update. Just been keeping busy. It's been really nice.
I had S this weekend. We built a shelf together, watched movies, and just had a great time.
Yesterday, I got a text from W asking if I could put her roller blades in S backpack so she could have them for this week when they go to the park. I told her I'd keep my eyes open for them.
After that text, I had a panic attack. I have no idea why that set me off. I guess just her texting me out of the blue for something not related to S just completely caught me off guard. Fortunately, I was able to walk into a different room, pull myself together, and spend more time being happy with S. I'm getting better at it.
This morning, I got S ready to go to the day care (W insists that I drop him off there so she doesn't have to see me...). She texted again and asked if I'd let her know when I drop him off.
So I took S out for breakfast. We ate donuts in the car and got silly singing Beatles songs. S loves the Beatles. Great taste for a 3yo (he'll be 4 in a couple of weeks). After a while, I took him to the day care, he gave me a big hug goodbye, and I left. And yes, the roller blades are in his backpack for W. I drove off, and pulled into a parking lot to take a few minutes to stop being sad about leaving him.
It's not so much the sitch that bothers me anymore. It's having to share time with S. When he's here, we have a LOT of fun! And I get all the ILY's and hugs from him, and it's wonderful! Of course...he also talks about mommy's friends...I learned about two new ones this week. But...it doesn't shock me any more. I don't care what she does, as long as S is okay.
So, after leaving, I texted her as she requested to let her know I had just dropped him off. I also told her that the roller blades were in his bag, along with some of her mail (including her new insurance cards from her job...she seemed very relieved to know that they had arrived when I told her Friday that I had them and would send them home with him). My text was polite, and I stuck to relevant information about S (and the blades/mail), and told her that S was well behaved, and that we had a good weekend. Then I politely ended the convo and told her to have a great day.
And then she texted me again.
She asked if I'd be open to having a face to face conversation this weekend about "some things". She said she still wants to bring a friend with her, just to feel more comfortable.
I agreed to talk to her in person, provided the friend is neutral and we can agree on a neutral location.
As long as the topic is S and his well-being, I'm game. I don't really want to talk about anything else with her right now.
She said that she would figure out a time and place, and let me know tomorrow.
I'm okay with this, provided it's in the best interests of S. I have determined that I'm not interested in playing any games with her. I have stopped talking to her family about the sitch. I don't even talk to mine. I do have a couple of my friends that I know I can vent to, but I have not really needed that very much lately. Every day gets a little bit easier for me, although I still have my hiccups. I know that following the DB plan seems to be, if nothing else, helping me deal with things in a more rational way, giving me space to heal, and to focus on myself and S's needs. And that's a great thing. Even if this doesn't work out. Realistically, it's pretty much done as far as I can tell. And I've come to terms with that.
Meanwhile, I took some of the advice from the board and actually started researching the "healthy male dominance" thing. I'm definitely a work in progress, but I'm also definitely working on that. It's made me consider a lot of aspects of myself that had been lacking. I wasn't always too far off the mark, but at least I have an idea of what I'm doing now.
I'm taking stock of myself. I'm working to be the grown man that I need to be. I'm working to be the dad that my S needs me to be. And with or without W, I will be far better for it.
Anyway, that's my update. Hope you are all doing well!
I would set your boundary on a meeting. What are the 'thing's? I would want to know in advance.
Also ask who the 'friend's is and reserve the right to have one of your own.
Also record if you don't.
Neutral ground please not your home or W.
V
The topics are going to be the D and our taxes. Her friend is someone I'm okay with, but I may try to bring one of my own either way. I am planning on recording it, either way, and we're meeting at a restaurant.
I speculate she wants to talk about the D because she's going to want to request a court date and try to get it over with, but I can't be certain about that. Honestly, I have no idea what it is she wants to discuss about it. Honestly, it's just really weird to me that she wants to talk face to face at all about anything.
As for me, I don't really want to talk about the details of the D yet. There are some things that would be better discussed in mediation at this point. So, I'm reserving the right to walk away from the conversation if we start getting into territory that I'm not comfortable with.
I'm really feeling a lot of anxiety about the whole thing. I have been so busy with my own life that I haven't wanted to talk to her about stuff yet. I'm still too torn up about the split in the first place, so I've just been staying busy and not reaching out to her, and only responding when she contacts me.
I'm not sure what's up. She went from not wanting to talk to me in any way, shape, or form to wanting to have a sit down discussion. She even approached it by asking if I would be comfortable meeting with her...which seemed weird in a way, but then it also feels like shifting it onto me to make the decision.
I have no idea what to think about this whole thing. I'm sure she probably just wants to talk about setting a court date. At least, that's what I'm telling myself.
I think I know the answers, but I'd like to ask: how should I handle this meeting? I think I'm just wanting some reassurance, because I'm pretty nervous about the whole thing.
I'm almost positive she wants to talk about setting court dates, trying to agree to things...I'd rather do this stuff with an attorney.
I am concerned that I'll end up being emotionally overwhelmed at some point. I've been staying busy today, and generally feeling pretty positive about it all...either way, I'm going to be okay.
But in a situation like this...what would some of you more experienced folks do?
How would you handle a face-to-face discussion with your WW that keeps things going in your favor? Any mindset tips would be helpful. I'm meeting her in 2.5 hours.
Well, it was interesting.
I decided before I went that I would dress up and try to be attractive. I wore my nicest outfit, shaved, did my eyebrows (she always laughed about my unkempt eyebrows, heh) and wore a nice aftershave. I was looking pretty boss.
I went in with a firm, but positive attitude.
We started to talk about some things we needed to work out, taxes from last year, etc. Then we started talking about the D, and of course that brought up some uncomfortable things. We both got a bit emotional. I didn't do as well as I wanted to with that, and she got upset. But...she continued to stay and talk. We got a bit more open and honest with ourselves. She brought up the things that had upset her about me...my lack of drive to take care of myself, specifically. I owned up to that. I know that during the R, I was very broken, depressed severely, and I didn't take care of myself like I should have. I told her that I recognized how that was a burden to her, and that whether or not I could have done anything else, the fact that I didn't was on me. After that, she calmed down a lot. I did, too.
She had brought a friend along as a witness. After a bit, we were walking to our cars, and the friend left. She wanted to talk a bit more about the issues, so I agreed. I owned my issues. She mentioned that there was nothing more attractive than a man who owned up to his problems.
She was looking at me and I noticed that she was slowly getting closer to me. When I thought she was getting into her car, I politely extended my hand to shake her hand. She said "I don't want your hand. I want a hug."
So I let her hug me. Not an awkward side hug. She squeezed me really tight and said that she cared about me and wanted to make sure that I'm okay through all of this, I kissed her forehead and told her that I would be fine no matter the outcome, and I hope that she is okay, too.
Aaaaaand then she kissed me. I hesitated. I said "well, this is confusing" and we had a laugh. Then she did it again, but harder.
I gave S his birthday present early. He LOVED it! W was surprised,and she seemed to be impressed that I thought about it ahead of time.
She was getting into her car, and asked me to call her. I asked her when she wanted me to call, she said "now."
I got into my car and called her. She asked if I was okay. I said "yes, ma'am" and she got flirty and said "mmmm say that again...". We got a laugh out of that.
While on the phone, we talked more about the issues. Eventually, she brought up that if she were ever to be in a relationship again, she wouldn't want it to be monogamous. I let her go on about she feels, and when she started bringing up her friends, I stopped her and gave her the "look, I'm not your gay friend" line. I told her that for me, monogamy wasn't negotiable. She of course got a bit testy about that and asserted that we probably wouldn't work, and D was the best course of action "most likely".
I told her "it's clear that we disagree on some major things, and perhaps D is the right option." I think it surprised her that I was taking that hard stance. She told me "the last ten minutes of our face to face meeting was amazing" and had all of our arguments ended that way, we'd likely still be together. She told me that I looked really good tonight, and that after we calmed down, she "missed the hell out of me" and she told me she still loves me.
I told her that I know we both still have our own issues, and I need time to keep working on mine, and in the meantime, I will respect her privacy, and I would not be pursuing a relationship with her at this time, but I also told her that the decision isn't mine to make. I would expect honesty, openness, and monogamy, and that I couldn't make that decision for her, and that I will be fine regardless of her decision.
On a somewhat related note, I start a new job tomorrow.
I'm quite excited about my progress, and I've got a lot of work to do on myself. But...she has taken notice. Hopefully I'll get more opportunities to make positive impressions on her. I suppose we shall see.
BM, well done on most fronts. The only thing I would caution you on is reading too much into the positive aspects of your interaction, and forming expectations. The reason these sitches are so confusing, especially for the LBH, is that the WW, as sandi points out, wants the best of both worlds. They want the faithful H that is there helping with the house and the kids and the finances. AND they want their "sleep with who I want", GGW, partying, completely free to do what I want, wayward lifestyle too. This board is riddled with LBH in this situation.
So yeah, she sees you, she knows you've made a lot of positive changes, it is attractive, but she still has this wayward streak that she isn't quite ready to give up. That was the exact purpose of her monogamous. "I might be open to reconciliation if I still get to sleep with other people!" Cake....and eat it too. I can remember early in my sitch when my W made a comment about how we might still be able to make it work if she slept in a different bed. Essentially she was saying that she wanted her house and family, but she didn't want ME as a lover.
So you did the right thing not to jump at her talking about a future R. She probably thought you were still desperate enough that you'd be agreeable to any conditions as long as you were still with her.
The looking good was great. But what really made you attractive to her was standing up for yourself and NOT being desperate enough to just agree to anything she said. That is going to be what sticks in her head the most. Whether or not you end up back together, she will RESPECT you now. The fact she even went there with the monogamy comment showed a lack of respect. You took that respect back by saying that was non-negotiable.
One last word of caution, and it goes along with the earlier caution, don't let yourself be manipulated. I just had a couple of exchanges yesterday with LBSs that thought DBing had worked to get their WASs interested, only to see them retreat as soon as they stopped DBing and started pursuing.
DO NOT START PURSUING. I know you TOLD her you wouldn't, but continue to SHOW her you won't. Don't initiate any communication that isn't strictly about logistics around your S. Answer her questions with as few as words as necessary. Be the one to end communications. Most importantly, when she texts you messages that are informational, DO NOT RESPOND. If she later questions why you "ignored" her, just tell her the text didn't require a response.
You are LRT. Your sitch meets the specific circumstances where LRT should be employed. Be consistent.
I definitely plan to stay consistent. I'll be honest...I would LOVE to call her up and make all of the mistakes...I see why that's such an appealing path, because it feels like the right choice. But I know better. I'm definitely going to keep doing what I'm doing and let her come to me if she chooses to. I'm sticking to my guns on this, because I know that's the only way it's going to work.
Going to keep LRT going. I'm trying not to get too caught up in the positives (although I see why that's appealing), because I know you're right. But at least it appears that I'm on the right path with LRT. I'm just going to keep moving forward, stand my ground, and see what happens. Thank you, Steve.
Way to go blakmac! Just keep moving forward.
Nice Blakmac...sounds like it went better than you anticipated. All those little wins will turn into a big WIN.
Keep it up!
It's strange to me. In the past few days, W has contacted me about S more than usual. And during those conversations, she's started opening up and talking more about her feelings, what she had issues with, etc. One of the things I've been trying to understand is how my actions affect her. Specifically, whenever we would argue (or even just talk about things), my ADHD symptoms would often ramp up. I would interrupt her without noticing that I was doing so, or when I would try to actively listen, I couldn't do it despite my best efforts. All of these things were completely unintentional, and quite out of control. We both accept that I never did these things to be rude, or because I didn't care, but they still happened, and even unintentional things can hurt others. She felt as though I did not take the things she said seriously, and that I just simply didn't care about her perspectives, thoughts, feelings, and the like. I would get frustrated by the criticism, and I would try to evaluate these things out loud to figure them out. To me, it was just talking about stuff. To her, I was coming off as defensive, uncaring, and just making excuses and looking for scapegoats.
Today, I'm trying to think of ways to get this under control. I realize that it will be VERY hard to control something that I often don't even realize I'm doing. I looked into individual counseling today, but right now the cost is too high. In a few weeks, once I start getting paychecks again, I might be able to make that happen. So that's my plan.
I used to scratch my head and cry and wonder how the hell I was hurting her, because I knew that I wasn't trying to be a jerk. But now I'm connecting the dots and I've learned that even if it's something small, like interrupting (not rudely, just interjecting thoughts randomly), that can have a serious impact on others if they are already tired, stressed, or frustrated.
I can see some ot the things that I need to address. I know I can only do so much on my own to address these things, and I'm likely going to need a counselor to fix them.
I can say is that I'm still working on my LRT. When we talk, I'm also trying very hard to actually listen and control the ADHD symptoms as much as I possibly can. I'm back on medication, and if nothing else, this helps me notice when I'm doing it. It's not flawless by far...I still do these things a lot. But I'm working harder to control them to the best of my ability.
While I am following the rule "don't believe anything she says", I know for certain that these things cause major problems for most people with ADHD in their relationships. As a side note, W told me today that she's about to see a dr as well, because she's been researching it herself for S, and she believes that she may also have it. So at least she's starting to understand that it can be really hard to deal with things normally with ADHD. She has definitely been softening a bit towards me. I'm showing progress in working on myself, I'm doing better with S than I did in the past, and she can tell that I'm trying to listen to what she says, although she maintains that I should have done that two years ago. And she's right about that. I will give her that. I couldn't get myself to actually do anything about it then. But now, I'm actually doing work to make these things better, more manageable, and trying to just be a better person.
During our talks, she sometimes gets angry. And I sometimes argue. But I'm also starting to notice how my behavior/words/reactions affect the conversations, and I'm trying to adjust those things so that she feels more comfortable telling me the things I need to know. It's a slow process.
Sometimes it's difficult. Most of the time, I want to just break the LRT rules and talk to her about coming back. But I don't. I know that wouldn't help at all. So I don't. However...W has said herself that it wouldn't work if we got back together right now, and she believes that D is the right option. What she HASN'T said lately is that she's dead set on it. She has said that she's noticed my changes, and that she wishes I would have made them a long time ago.
>>>But she has noticed.
I'm sticking to LRT. I don't contact her. She contacts me. If she wants to talk, I listen to the best of my ability. Will it work? I have no idea. I have my doubts. BUT...sticking to LRT seems to be far more effective than anything I tried early on. So we shall see.
Today after W got off of work, she went to her dad's house to pick up S. She called me on the way back to talk. Apparently, she was very tired from work and wanted to talk to me to keep her awake, and she also wanted to tell me how her day went.
She did bring up mediation and reminded me that she'd like to figure out as much as we can before we go, but there's still not a date set, and she's thinking the end of next month might be good.
I told her I wasn't ready to discuss all of the details of splitting things, and would prefer to wait until mediation, or at least until I've had time to think it all over.
There are some very mixed signals coming from her.
She keeps talking about the mediation, so it seems she's still wanting to take that route. BUT she's also just calling to talk to me, and she even said that she wants to take S out for his bday coming up, and she wants me to come as well so we can have some family time.
I get it...I can't read into it...these are definitely two very different signals...either she wants to D or she doesn't...but she seems to be also trying to keep me as a friend and even get closer. I don't know. I don't really think she knows what she wants. But I'm still sticking to LRT.
It's really frustrating to say the least. I can definitely say that I'm really glad to hear from her. I enjoy talking to her. But I don't really know what she's doing or thinking.
Gah. This is hard. But I'm still going forward.
I don't really think she knows what she wants.
This is the key phrase in your last post. How can you possibly know what someone wants if they don't even know themselves! And due to your DBing, 180s, GAL, etc....... she is now up in the air.
The "I wish you had done this 2 years ago", or "I wish you had made changes a long time ago" is a very common refrain from WASs. 1) They are still trying to excuse their actions. "It is too late!". We've all heard that. 2) She is unsure if they are real or they are just you trying to get her back. This is a huge one. And this is why remaining consistent is so important. One begging session will undo this and you will start over from square one to try and convince her the changes are lasting. 3) They've main their "proclamation" (I want a D!), and that is not something they can or will go back on lightly. If they embrace your changes, that would be a major step towards R. And the fact that they are having second thoughts on the proclamation scares them. It took them a lot of time, consideration, and courage to make the proclamation to begin with. That is what the "let's discuss mediation" thing is all about. It is her trying to convince you, and herself!, that that is still what she wants.
Keep on keeping on. As I told another poster last week, the temptation for the LBS, once they start seeing positive effects from DBing, is to stop DBing and go back to pursuing and pressuring. That will send her running faster than anything. So fight that urge! Time and consistency. Trust me, you will no undoubtably if and when she changes her mind!
I have seen women do this, too. They have made up their mind (or so they think) that it's over and they are ready to D. Then they meet with the H and he is looking really good, and he is showing that side of himself that resembles the man she had fallen in love with and M. So, they have a peaceful discussion……..and as soon as her angry feelings subside, her old feelings of attraction try to surface. Bottom line......she felt attracted to you. That's why she kissed you. Did not surprise me one little bit. That's not to say she's ready to reconcile, but it probably left her feeling a little confused also.
Continue playing it smart and do nothing that hints of pursuit. That is a sure way of throwing ice on everything. The WW needs to
work to get her H back. Know what I mean? You can keep the road paved smoothly, but don't go chasing her down.
Good Job!
Definitely not chasing her down. Just trying to buy as much time as I can by being polite, listening, but not talking about terms of the D (it honestly still hurts to think about it, despite my coming to terms with it should it move forward), and not begging her for anything at all.
She is wanting to see if it's possible for me to keep S every weekend that she works (which is literally every weekend). I did tell her I would be fine with that, but I'm about to start this new job that may have me working very strange, long, and random hours. As a side note...she also told me that if I needed any help with the systems I'd be working on, I would be free to call her to ask for her help...that's not something I plan to do, even though she does have more experience with them (just not so much on the technical side). Also, she's trying to work her way into the same office, but in a different department. So that's a bit strange. Fortunately, my job will probably allow me to be out of the office fairly frequently.
Then again, it may be a good thing. Who knows. What I do know is that she's got a way to go before she gets the office job she wants, and I've got my own work to do. It's probably not at all relevant, but it is kind of humorous and maybe a little bit weird.
Anyway, gonna keep on keeping on!
Thank you, everyone. I'll check in again soon.
Finally started the new job this morning!
Also, W called me to make sure I was awake in time for work...and she just happened to be at the donut shop near my place with S, and she asked if I'd like to meet them there to say hi for a few minutes. I did go over and say hi to them, talked to S for a bit, got some awesome hugs from him, then went off to work.
I'm kind of exhausted. It was a long day, and I've got a LOT of stuff to learn at work. So I'm really excited about this.
I'm sure W will probably text me at some point to find out how my day was. Since our face-to-face meeting last Thursday, she has called or texted me every single day. Heh. I dunno.
Gonna keep plowing forward!
Remember.... keep DBing. Dont let up just because you're seeing positive changes. This is a crucial period.
Absolutely. Thank you. Gonna keep at it.
Congrats on the new job blakmac. Stepping forward for your self growing. Great!
Blakmac, you're doing a great job of DB'ing! Sounds like you are listening to W and validating, and you are avoiding injecting your feelings/ thoughts into the convo, and you are not fighting the D, that's all exactly what you should do. I think all these signals you're getting from your W are a GREAT sign, she's starting to see what she will miss and she's not sure she's making the right decision after all. But like Steve and Sandi said, STAY THE COURSE! This isn't the time to pursue or assume she's changed her mind. You keep doing exactly what you've been doing and let HER pursue (which is exactly what she's doing). The one thing I want to caution you about is I think you are being too available to her. She's sort of learning to miss you but you are always immediately available when she calls and texts so you're allowing her a bit of cake-eating. Be more distant and mysterious. Not rude or cold, but you want to leave her with the impression that you are quite busy and can't carve out much time for her. You want her to wonder if she may lose you, and who you are with, and what you are doing.
Congrats on the new job, best of luck with it!
Thank you!
AnotherStander, I was wondering that myself. I tend to answer the phone calls/texts simply because she has S with her. I need to be a bit more difficult to reach. Heh.
She actually asked me to call her while I was at lunch today. She was taking S to his dr appt, and she wanted to know how the new job was going, tell me about some of the issues that the store she works at was having (it's actually my job to work on that stuff, too), and just find out how my day was going. Before I got off work, she asked if I would call again after work, this time it was her asking me if I would keep S overnight Friday in a couple of weeks (on her weekend) because she had to work, but wanted to pick him up Saturday morning so she could spend a little time with him. I told her I'd be glad to keep him overnight. Then she proceeded to ask more about how my day was, etc. She did mention that she's really glad that we're getting along better now, and that she thinks it's better for everyone that we are. I said "I'm glad, too" but I didn't pursue the conversation down that path.
Definitely going to keep this up. I would love to be more mysterious, but now that I'm working again, that's a bit difficult. Especially since she works for the same company (just in a different location).
It does feel like this is going way better than it was before. I am still going to keep up the DB for sure. If nothing else, at least we're both trying to be more reasonable, which is good for S ultimately.
Thanks, everyone! I've still got a lot of work to do.
Another good day at work. I stayed really busy. Took me a while to notice that W texted me some funny pics and videos of S.
Took me even longer to realize that tomorrow is our 5 year anniversary.
Tonight is going to be rough.
Today has gone pretty well. I figured I would be a complete emotional wreck today. Of course, the day isn't quite over yet...heh.
So, it's our 5 year anniversary. I was leaving work to go on my lunch break, and as I was driving out of the parking lot...W just happened to be driving by. She stopped and asked if I was on lunch, and I told her that I was. She asked if her and S could join me, so I said that would be fine (hooray S time!). They sat with me during lunch, and W kept looking at me, smiling, and then acting shy when I smiled politely back. She said that today was a weird day, and I agreed. We laughed about it. She said that she was glad to see me today. As we were leaving, she acted like she wanted to hug me, but she decided not to. After work, she met me to let me get S from her, and she hugged me. Tonight she called me about S. We talked about him, then she said "so...I don't want you to think I'm stringing you along or anything with the smiles, hugs, and stuff..." to which I replied firmly but still politely "you don't have to worry about me, I'm a big boy." She went silent. And then we ended the call.
I can't assume anything here. I know that. I'd love to believe she's having regrets and second thoughts. But I also believe that she hasn't changed her mind, and she's just trying to be "friends". Either way, I can't assume anything.
Now that I'm thinking about today, our anniversary, our S asking me tonight "so Dad, how did we become a family?"...it does hurt. More than I want to admit. Fortunately, S is asleep, so if I do get emotional tonight, at least he won't see it.
W said she's going for a bike ride tonight after she gets off of work. It's already late. I told her to just be careful. She probably is going for a ride with some friends, and honestly that's what I'm going to choose to believe. But everything inside me wishes that she'd come here and stay with me and S. So that's a bit rough. Okay, that's all I have to say about that...it just [censored] being here knowing that today could have been a really special day...and even though it was a good day, it still [censored].
Well, that's my update for now. Gonna keep on DBing.
Hi everyone!
So...she's still making it a point to call or talk to me every day about S, which is nice. Last weekend I only got to see S Friday night (because of scheduling with her mother, we switched weekends, so I'm getting a couple of make up days this coming weekend).
The past few days, I've made it a point to still be polite, but a little more distant when talking to her. I don't want to give her the impression that I'm chasing at all, because I'm trying to avoid that.
Today, she texted me to see if I was on my lunch break, because her and S were at a trampoline park just a couple blocks from where I worked, and she asked if I wanted to come say hi. So I went to say hi to S. He, of course, was super busy jumping, so she noticed I was there first. She looked really happy to see me...not sure why. Heh. Either way, I got to see S for about 20 minutes or so, and that was great.
Keeping on!
Keep it up, blakmac. Your sitch in general seems to have improved dramatically from what it was previously. You're obviously doing something right!
S stayed with me the last two nights. W hugged me when she dropped him off with me Friday. She stopped by Saturday to pick him up (he had a birthday party with some of her friends that have kids, I wasn't invited, and that's probably for the best) and while he was gone, I ran out and got him his other bday gift...a guitar and amp.
When she brought him back to my apartment, she hugged me again.
We had a great time playing music together this weekend. Even though he's turning 4 and doesn't know how to play...it was still a lot of fun.
Anyway, W mentioned that someone had told her that I seemed happy. I told her "the new job is going well, keeps me busy".
Since our meeting...she still hasn't gone a single day without texting or calling.
I dunno. I don't know what's happening. Probably nothing.
I got an interesting letter in the mail today. If we don't request a court date by the 7th of next month, the court is going to dismiss the divorce case...
Still doing DB.
Tomorrow, W and I are taking S to meet the teacher night. We were going to take him to a movie, since it's his bday, but gotta do the school thing. This weekend, I'm most likely keeping him Friday night.
She's definitely talking to me more and more. I don't know what's happening. But what I do know is on the 7th, if that gets dismissed, it would start the entire thing over again...which buys me more time. Which I'm okay with.
I kind of like the trend. But still going to just keep doing what I'm doing.
Cheering you on from the sideline.
Yes, definitely rooting for you, blakmac!
Keep doing what you are doing it is slowly working.
Yesterday she called me crying and asked me to meet her to talk. S was with her, so we met somewhere that he could play. She was freaking out because S starts school next week and her work schedule doesn't work with his school hours, and she wanted to see if I could pick him up several days each week...and she said she thought it would be best to move in together again.
I was kind of shocked. So I asked what she meant by that. She said she might be interested in working on getting back together. I told her that I would think about it, but I would expect her to be honest and not talk to certain people. She flipped out and said I was just being controlling, abusive, and manipulative. I stood my ground. Then she started telling me "this isn't how you get people to love you", and I said "I'm not trying to." Then she said she has no interest in being with me at all, and she made a mistake asking me that.
Yeah. This has nothing to do with my new job at all. lol
Today she called again. But she was a lot calmer. She wanted to let me know the days I needed to pick S up from school. I added the days to my calendar.
I dunno. This whole thing is just weird. I get it...she's kind of following the patterns from the DB book. I still don't know if it's working, but she hasn't cut off daily communication still.
Not sure what to make of it all. Heh.
Yeah this is confusing. Likely a moment of panic, and then as soon as you mentioned boundaries she ran the other way. But at least she knows now that she can't waltz in and out like that. Very good standing your ground. I am sure the temptation was to promise her whatever she wanted in order to make it happen. And you didn't give in. Well played.
I was kind of shocked. So I asked what she meant by that. She said she might be interested in working on getting back together.
Let's move back in together because I -might- be interested in working on things. Ummmm, NO.
I told her that I would think about it, but I would expect her to be honest and not talk to certain people.
EXCELLENT RESPONSE!
She flipped out and said I was just being controlling, abusive, and manipulative.
Whiny brat-like reaction.
WELL DONE!
Then she started telling me "this isn't how you get people to love you"
This is CLEAR manipulation to try and get you to do what she wants. Yet she accuses you of manipulation!?!?
Then she said she has no interest in being with me at all, and she made a mistake asking me that.
So in other words this was all a ploy to make things more convenient for her, there was never any interest in reconciling. She needs to WORK to get you back and until she's willing to do that work there's really nothing to talk about.
Today she called again. But she was a lot calmer. She wanted to let me know the days I needed to pick S up from school. I added the days to my calendar.
OK I don't know all the details of your sitch and maybe you can clarify, but it sounds to me like you're bailing her out of her problems. Sorry for not knowing more details of your sitch but do you have 50-50 custody? If so, you really shouldn't relieve her of her responsibilities on the weeks she has the kids. You need to be engaged in your own life and even if you don't need it right now, you're going to want those weeks to yourself later. ESPECIALLY after the above convo I would NOT have just caved and given her what she wanted. SHE wanted to S, SHE needs to assume her half of the responsibilities for that. She needs to make whatever arrangements she needs to and not just expect you to be her part-time husband, nanny and caregiver when it suits her.
I ran out and got him his other bday gift...a guitar and amp.
We had a great time playing music together this weekend. Even though he's turning 4 and doesn't know how to play...it was still a lot of fun.
Music is magic blakmac. I play bass guitar and my son plays guitar. We share that energy and use the music as a bonding tool.
Keep walking man! You are doing fine!
You handled that little "meeting to talk" just perfectly. Do not jump at her bait. She accuses you of the very things she is guilty of doing. She wants to control and manipulate you. She wants the convenience of having you closer, so you can pick up the slack...….like, taking care of your son, running errands, taking care of the house, cooking, etc. She's seeing how being a single mom isn't quite like she thought ir would be...….so she has been buttering you up for this little talk.
Stick to your guns and do not agree to live with her in any type of "in-house separation",.....which is the epitome of cake eating for a WW. If she's not ready to sleep with you, and she can't agree to your terms......then she'll have to figure out how to take care of her son. You have a job now!
This is a critical part of this entire situation. I know you want your family back, but if you'll hold out......I think she'll eventually come around. But if you don't stand your ground and you agree to live under the same roof...... I promise she'll put you through hell. She's not ready to give up her single life and her new "friends". Remember these words when she starts to whine about what a hard time she's having and how unreasonable you are being...…"It's just not that simple now". Then if she asks why not, you tell her you won't go back to the previous situation before she left. I mean....why should you? Here's the thing......she didn't use the reconciliation word, did she? No, b/c she isn't serious. She just wants you for a babysitter. She's got a long way to go before she gets serious about moving back for the right reasons. So, don't trust her until she's ready to do the work. She's not there yet.
Thanks everyone! After the big argument the other day, I figured she'd probably just completely stop talking to me. But then yesterday, she wanted to have lunch with me and S (according to her, S wanted to see me). The funny thing about that is that S was busy coloring a picture the whole time. She was asking how work was, kept smiling when she looked at me, etc. Maybe nothing, maybe her starting to remember stuff, I dunno. Either way, that went well. No talk about the split, the D, or anything else like it at all. She gave me another big hug when I had to go back to work. After work, we met up so I could pick up S so he could spend the night with me. Then she texted again later to find out if bedtime went smoothly.
So. Much. Confusion. BUT...I keep standing my ground. The funny thing is that in the beginning, that didn't seem to do anything but make her run away. But now, it's almost like she gets frustrated, stomps her feet a lot less, but then chills out after a while and continues trying to be nice.
It's so weird.
What I know for sure is that whatever is going on seems to be going in a much better direction than it was before. I'm just going to keep going forward and focusing on work, S, and GAL.
We have 19 days to set a court date, otherwise the D will be dismissed. That's only 15 business days.
I'm not going to worry about setting a date...honestly, if they dismiss it, if she decides to go through with it she'll have to re-file. Or I'd have to re-file. But the way things are going, I know she can't really afford the extra for mediation, etc. And if it's dismissed, she won't be able to say she doesn't make enough to cover court fees. So if I had to, I could file, but I am still holding out in the back of my mind and just staying on task with DB and hoping to see what happens.
W came to pick up S after her shift at work. She messaged me a few minutes before she left work, which is at a pizza place, to let me know she was going to be a few more minutes, then would be on the way.
When she showed up, she had clearly put on a clean uniform shirt and her hair was washed.
Maybe she had an easy night. Maybe she got off work early and just told me she was still there.
Detached or not, I don't like being lied to. And maybe she didn't lie. I don't know. But I really get the feeling she did.
I don't know. My mind is going pretty crazy right now, and there's not a lot of GAL options this late at night when I have to work at 8 am.
I am trying not to care. But I feel like I was likely lied to again, and that she actually got off work earlier than she said, then went to see someone. But of course, there's no telling. I don't know.
I think what makes this difficult is wanting to say something, but restraining yourself. Even though the entire sitch is going way better than it was, honestly it still hurts a lot.
I definitely can't stand the mixed signals, and the idea that she's still probably out doing things with other people. I know, I know, I just need to work harder at detaching. I was doing great, the last few minutes were rough though. She definitely was nice, but very obviously in a mood that doesn't mesh with how she usually is when she gets off of work.
Ugh.
And then she texted me about something. We had a decent conversation about S starting school tomorrow. She invited me to come along to drop him off tomorrow, and then she invited me to come see her competing in an event where she works. I noticed that once in a while, she throws in little jabs at me for making her feel bad earlier on before I started DBing hardcore. I don't dodge them. Even if I disagree, she feels how she feels, and I should have not said some of the things to her (and others) that I did, so I apologized for them. Of course, I did so without begging. Just own it and then let her know that I understand what she's saying. I feel like the jabs may be tests...but I don't know...so I treat her attempts to pick a fight as thought they are tests. I've gotten way better at just keeping my mouth shut and keeping it all simple. That seems to be working well for me. Honestly, I don't know what to think. But I do like the extra attention she's been giving me...even though I'm still not chasing her.
It's almost going so well that it scares me. I don't want to get too bogged down with thinking about this stuff. I don't doubt she's cake eating, but I also can tell that this stuff has shown improvement. Sometimes I catch her looking at me, and then she smiles and says "whaaaaaat?" in a flirty, smiley way. So I kind of feel like something is going right. But then...I know I just have to be patient and keep going.
How late was she collecting son? Just a few minutes? Hours? Forget that you think her uniform was fresh and her hair washed.
What were the little jabs she threw into the conversation? You haven’t described what happened, I can only see the school thing (def go!) and an event she’s competing at (up to you if you want to go, have you been to many things she wanted you to go to and showed an interest in the past? If this was a problem go or just pop by as this could be a 180, but if this is something you have always been to and S not involved I might be inclined to say you are busy).
Sounds like some positives, keep going, be patient, little steps.
She wasn't really late, just telling me she was almost done at work. Turns out she actually cleaned up before the shift and didn't work too hard that night. So I was just freaking out for no real reason that time.
I did go to S's first day, and it went pretty well. I didn't go to the competition because I was at work. I work for the company that owns the company where she works, so it's plausible that I could have gone, and even though I thought really hard about going, I decided that I'd just stay at work and keep hacking away at a project I'm working on. It's turning out better, anyway.
An example of jabs: today I picked S up from school because she said she needed to work a few hours. Bonus time with S is good.
We had a great time! She came to pick him up, and she went to the neighbor's house to get a box of S's toys that he had left there, and she asked if I would carry it. I did help, because S was there. So I got them into her car, and they left. She called me about 5 minutes later saying she wanted to leave the toys at my house because she was afraid that there may be bugs in them, and she didn't want bugs at her apartment. I suggested that she keep them in her car overnight. She said "can I just leave them downstairs at your place?" Then she said that S was freaking out because he wanted to take them home with him. She showed up at my place, S was having a meltdown, and I got the toys and told him I would clean them up for him and keep them safe, and he could play with them this weekend. He said he wanted to stay with me. Said = screamed. Here's where the jab comes: she got out of the car, said "THIS is the reason I didn't want to get these effing toys, which you said you would pick up this week." I said "I was going to after S was picked up, I've been busy doing stuff all week" (I have been super, super busy). She said "you should have done this sooner. Now he wants to stay with you. Can YOU tell him why he can't?"
I talked to S. I told him that I wish he could, but he has school in the morning, and I have to be up early for work, but that I loved him and would see him this weekend. She said "thank you for telling him." I picked up the box, told her to have a good night, and she left.
On one hand, it's nice that MOST of the time we've talked lately, it's been pretty calm. She's actually been quite nice lately. Except that every few days she tries to remind me that she is mad at me. I've become a lot better at just not responding, or saying "I'm sorry you feel that way" and just leaving it at that. On the other hand, she seems to be trying to do cake eating...a la Mitch Hedberg's cake addiction joke. I think her wild streak has kind of slowed down, but I don't know. I only assume that because she seems to want to spend more time with S, and she's actually talking to me like a human more often than not. The past few weeks have been a total trip. I still don't know which way this is going.
15 more days until the D case is dismissed. Just waiting to see what's going to happen.
bm, I would look at this a little differently. These kinds of incidents are actually good things. WAWs/WWs are notorious for thinking that splitting up the MR is the best things since sliced bread. That if they could just get rid of this lunk of a H out of their lives their lives would be all rainbows and unicorns. That the only thing holding them back is this crushing feeling of being stuck in an unhappy marriage with an awful H that has no way or idea how to make them happy.
It usually takes reality to snap them out of it. What I see here, and the reason she reacted so viciously to it, is reality hitting her between the eyes. When S wants his toys, wants them now, and wants to remain with you because that's where they are, the reality is in that this thing isn't going to be as easy as she had hoped. Though she was lashing out at you, she was really lashing out at the reality of a family that is currently split up. A reality she doesn't want to face.
WWs especially want what they want NOW, and they don't want to hear anything that says that the decision they are making or made is wrong in anyway. When reality proves that the decision wasn't the best they sometimes react poorly to that reality.
So don't take any of it personally. I think you handled it well. My only suggestion would be to go back to not being so quick to immediately respond to texts and calls.WWs are also known to be "nice" to get their LBH reattached. When you go NC, and go to being slow or not responding at all, they'll often times turn on the charm to reestablish that control. And they'll even use possible R to reestablish that control. If you read the other sitches here you will see that is an universal dynamic with WW.
The natural reaction for the LBH is to go back to being responsive. Don't be. When she picks up S, and 5 minutes later is calling you....let it go to VM. If she starts texting you shortly after she would be getting home, don't be so quick to respond. Do not stop DBing just because she has been a little nicer recently. Remember, detach when they react to it and detach when they don't!
bm, I would look at this a little differently. These kinds of incidents are actually good things. WAWs/WWs are notorious for thinking that splitting up the MR is the best things since sliced bread. That if they could just get rid of this lunk of a H out of their lives their lives would be all rainbows and unicorns. That the only thing holding them back is this crushing feeling of being stuck in an unhappy marriage with an awful H that has no way or idea how to make them happy.
That sounds really, really familiar...lol. I understand what you're saying though, and I know that these are good things. I've definitely been slower to answer calls, text, etc. The other day she asked me to call when I went to lunch...I conveniently "forgot" until about 10 minutes till I had to be back so that I wouldn't have to have a long conversation. Later that evening, she texted me and asked if I was busy, I said that I was (because I was, I had friends over), and asked her what was up...she said it wasn't anything important and she'd just talk to me later.
I still have no idea what she wanted to talk about. lol.
I definitely need to get back to being slower to respond, except that I know most of her calls are about S. She does talk a little about other things once in a while, but for the most part she seems to need some valid reason to talk to me, like asking me to pick up S, etc. Honestly, that's fine with me. Sometimes I'd just rather not talk. Not that I don't want to...but I'd just rather not.
So far it seems like things are starting to go better. Still going to keep on DB though.
14 more days until the D case is dismissed.
Today when W dropped S off with me, she asked if she could come about two hours later tomorrow so she can pick up a few hours extra to cover for one of the dudes she hooked up with. She probably shouldn't have told me it was for his benefit, because I literally could care less if he gets enough sleep for class. ROFL.
I told her I would think about it. But I'm not that interested in doing him (or her) any favors.
The upside would be that I get more S time. Plus, she's probably would be happy to make a little more money.
I dunno. I'm kind of leaning towards "no", but I don't know if I'll stick to that or not.
Anyway, just thought it was funny. Just trying to stay cool in the meantime.
13 more days.
So today I picked up S from school, W is working. She's going to try to get off work early to come pick him up. She's definitely been spending more time with him, which I feel is a good thing. She's finally recognizing that this has been really hard on him, and even though we're still apart, at least I can see that now she actually appears to be trying to put him first (rather than just being totally selfish even with him).
Yesterday when she came to pick him up, she wanted to stay and plan out who will be keeping S for the next few weeks (because we will both be working some strange hours). She cracked some jokes, and we laughed, but we stayed on topic and I didn't really get the feeling she was trying to throw any jabs. So that was nice.
She may have to move out of her apartment and in with a friend (who has a S that's one of S's friends, and the friend is a lady...even though that doesn't matter all the time with W), so she's definitely still trying to hang on to some kind of control over her financial life, but it doesn't really seem to be working very well.
Either way, the new trend of her actually talking to me like a human, spending more of her time with S, and just trying to keep peace is nice.
11 more days till the D is dismissed. Fingers crossed.
Yesterday, W ended up picking S up from school because he got his clothes all messed up. Today, she asked if I could pick him up, but I had to work late, so I had to decline. The school called me though because she didn't get there till almost the deadline for pickup. I don't know what she was up to, but as long as he got picked up, that's the important thing.
She has decided that she's going to move in with her friend, and she wants to bring S's furniture back to my place. I'm not sure what she's going to do with all of her furniture...but that's not my problem. I told her that S can have his stuff here if he wants.
It feels like she's slllllooowwwwly trying to undo some of the mess...but not be obvious about it. She definitely got in way over her head when she thought she made enough money to make it...based on the fact that I used to be able to pull it off before we got married...on less per hour than she makes...but then, I kind of have a thing for personal finance. Her thing is random bills, like gym memberships, etc. So...yeah, of course she's gonna struggle. lol.
She had wanted to have lunch with me today (without S), but she wasn't anywhere near where I work today, and honestly I don't feel too bad about it.
Everything is strange. BUT...the GAL approach seems to be doing pretty well. Just gonna keep it up a bit more!
In 9 days, the D will be dismissed.
You hope she is trying to "undo the mess". But that's just mind reading.
You shouldn't feel bad at all about not going to lunch with someone when it's just too inconvenient.
Counting days til the D is dismissed seems stressful. Why not just put a reminder on your phone for the day after, and do you best to not dwell on it?
I'm honestly fine whether she does or doesn't. And I don't think that's what she's doing, but it just sort of feels that way knowing her. And I don't feel bad about not going to lunch with her. It was inconvenient for her, but was also her idea. And I'm actually counting down because I'm excited to see it gone...even if just for a while. So it really wasn't a sad, complaining post as it was an update.
So in 9 days what are you going to do? You see, bm, you have made a lot of progress. I agree, it appears she is trying to undo what she did slowly, probably without admitting it to herself.
But in 9 days is danger time my friend. She has been throwing you bones. But remember what got you here, DBing. If she allows the D to be dismissed please do not see that as carte blanche to ratchet up the pressure and pursuit. Remember, even in 9 days you are the lighthouse! You stand in place.....you let her come to you. The more you detach, GAL and continue to 180 the more she'll likely come sniffing around wondering what is up!
Remember, back when you were still pressuring and pursuing? Remember trying to flag her down in the driveway and she just smiled and drove on? Remember, her changing son's dr appointments to avoid you? Remember the texts to stay away from her and not contact her anymore?
And then you got really good at DBing, and suddenly she is meeting you for lunch, and inviting you to the park, etc. Classic pursuit-distance dynamic!
So in 9 days, the D dismissal is formality. But bm is going to keep on DBing!
Exactly, Steve85. I am definitely going to keep doing DB.
Just got a call from W about an hour ago. She also got the letter about dismissing the case. She went to the courthouse earlier to request a date.
She called again this evening. I didn't answer. Then she texted me that she had something she needed to tell me. I called her back, she wanted to tell me something S said that she thought was funny. I laughed a little. She told me that if I go driving tonight (it's a big college football night here) to "please be careful".
I don't understand her at all.
None of this is easy. None of this makes sense. And tonight, I'm not going out, I'm staying home. I feel like my world is getting ripped apart again. Of course, I'm not planning on deviating from DB. If anything, I'm going to try harder. But to say that this doesn't hurt is a massive understatement.
Picked S up from school today. He was disappointed that I wasn't in his friend's dad's Mustang. He told me about sleepovers at his friend's house (his dad is a guy). I think I'm just stressed out by the events of the last couple of days. It's just total BS, and I'm exhausted.
No, I'm not going to quit DB. Although to be honest, I don't see that this is really working all that well. Instead, I feel like I've been friend zoned by W and still have to help her with S (which I don't mind helping with him), so now I'm just feeling like all of the effort has been for very, very little. Especially with her requesting a court date yesterday.
I know I'm not really feeling as strong as I was right now, so I need to know...has anyone actually been able to pull off DB with a sitch like this? Because I feel like I'm running out of time fast, and it's exhausting.
Okay, I just need some advice. I kind of fell off the "be calm and polite" wagon last night and basically told W that I was absolutely sick of her having S around dudes she's hooking up with. I had checked out the guy in particular on FB and was definitely not shocked that he was about the opposite of her politically (which she argued with me about being different), he's not a decent person, and he doesn't seem to mind being rude and profane when leaving reviews for local businesses. Heh. I told her an attitude like that wasn't healthy to have S around (basically). Either way, I feel like I really messed up by saying anything at all.
I think that I'm just panicking and feel like time is almost up to make anything better. It's like she wants to be friends, but only barely because it benefits her in some way, and that's not okay with me. I don't want to be used. I don't want to be her friend. I would absolutely love it if she told me she loves me and actually freaking meant it, but she doesn't. And it's rough.
I plan to GAL, DB, etc. for as long as I can. But I'm really afraid here, and it's driving me crazy. Please, if anyone has anything that would help...I could really use reassurance right now, motivation, or anything to let me know that I'm not crazy and that this may still be fixable. I know that the D is probably going to still happen. I was hoping it wouldn't. I don't think I'm avoiding it. But I feel pretty lost right now.
I thought you were staying away from her on FB? Bm this is why you don't go back on principles just because she's made some positive actions lately.
This is bad. This can undo everything you've accomplished all these weeks. That's what Sandi's rule 37 is all about.
Get back on the DB horse.
I am staying away from her on FB. I found the guy on FB because S wouldn't leave me alone about going to hang out with him.
Yesterday was weird. And almost...better...? I don't know. W came to pick up S, and she wanted to have coffee and talk about taxes and stuff. We ended up talking about things for several hours. Come to find out, she is totally broke (she got paid Friday and had to pay a lot of late bills), so I gave her some cash to buy food for S. She asked if I would sublease her apt, I told her I can't do that. She said she's going to give me a lot of her furniture when she moves out of her place, S's bed, etc. will be coming back to my apartment. She asked if I wanted to have lunch with her and S, so I agreed. After that, well, things got strange.
I mean, they were strange before that, but weirder.
Without going into too many details, she said that of all of the stuff I used to get mad at her about when she first left (specifically, the guys), she knows I was right about them. She admits she's still seriously attracted to me, but she is still also talking about the "I don't want to feel caged up" thing (and she never was). Somehow we got on the topic of our sex life before she left (or lack of it) and what she was wanting that I wasn't doing. Well, that would have been better to know back then, but it was never really discussed. I told her I never had a problem doing the things she wanted, except I was unsure of myself, not confident, and kind of afraid to hurt her.
So after lunch, she was putting S in her car, got him buckled in, and I ran upstairs to get his backpack. I stopped in the restroom for a second. I didn't know she came upstairs. I asked her if she was okay, because she was just standing there looking at me funny. Then she kind of tried to get sexually aggressive with me. And then I said "I think you have the wrong idea about me..." and turned the table on her. Not in a bad way, just in a more...dominate way...I know, I know, it got really weird for about 3 seconds. She laughed, then I just kind of got my composure, said "sorry about that, that was weird." She said "f*** you" and walked out, got in her car, and drove off.
Later I apologized, but then said "look, I'm not okay with you leading me on like that. It's disrespectful to try to make me feel those things when you have no intention of following through or staying with me, because while I understand that to you sex is just a physical thing, and it can be for me as well, I'm not one of your boy toys and I am not okay with being used." She agreed. She also said we should try this new restaurant in town...without S. I said maybe.
But mostly, she got flustered and said "we should not be together. you can't just be the person I've always wanted like that!" and basically complained that it's not fair that suddenly I'm what she's wanted the whole time, because I'm owning up to my mistakes, having a backbone, standing up for myself, taking care of my business, and not putting up with all of the bs.
Well. I'm not sure where it's gonna end up. But one thing seems to be clear...something in her is different. And she's starting to look at me again like she did in the beginning.
No guarantees. I'm gonna keep moving forward.
Oh. She did say "we can't go back." I said I didn't want to go back. She had also said "there's no forward for us, either." And I said "there is for me, and I'm going forward either way."
But that was before she got all flustered about stuff.
I know she'll probably keep the D going. But she seems to be starting to put two and two together.
Sorry. This was a weird post. lol
Bm you said a but too much. Standing up for yourself what you say it's what you do. Next time she starts saying stuff like that listen.... And validate.
Oh, I did leave that part of of the post. I have definitely been listening and validating. That's probably part of why she's still open to talking lately.
Sorry. I sometimes think too fast when I'm typing, but I absolutely appreciate the reminder.
Please start a new thread. This thread is over the 100 posting/reply limit. Thanks!