Old thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2792589&page=11Thanks for responding guys. My counselor brought up that I needed to tell her some things that she has not heard from me and be emotionally honest and that she needed to hear some of these things. Too much NGS for too long. I didn't know how this forum would take it, and I am trying to DB, but I appreciate the perspective either way!
I am still holding on by:
-going to the restaurant
-riding in car w her
-telling her how I feel (following counselor's advice)
And even though she doesn't pay for the car, I should let her keep driving it? The payment were talking about is $1,000 a month. She stated she would not be able to keep the vehicle on her own. Ok, let's sell it IMO. I pay for the thing by myself while her cash (roughly $3,200/MO) goes god knows where. She could potentially keep it in cash, say she spent it, and there'd be no way for me to get any of that. All the while she was spending out of the joint account. So I just get double screwed bc I didn't even get to us the vehicle while paying for it and all this other crap.
I feel like the separate accounts, which I'm doing today, and me taking the car I am, at this point, solely financially responsible for, is action to the words that I won't support someone else's mistress. She likes to state things like "this is hers, that is hers", even when referring to the bed and others. I shouldn't sleep in the master bc she and her sister moved it in.
I also wouldn't mind some pointers on where I am holding on, I think I know and listed a few, but would appreciate your thoughts. Again, my counselor brought up some of these things to work on. She is with me and not pursuing, but wants me to open a window or "reel her in" as she says.
I also wouldn't mind some pointers on where I am holding on, I think I know and listed a few, but would appreciate your thoughts. Again, my counselor brought up some of these things to work on. She is with me and not pursuing, but wants me to open a window or "reel her in" as she says.
Exactly. Remember the counselor is probably classically trained. "You must reconnect." "You must communicate." "You must share your feelings."
A lot of counselors deal with marriages where both spouses want to improve things. That isn't your sitch. The reason you came to DBing is because traditional methods didn't work. Most of us did. We tried to do the usual early in our sitch and things got worse.
So my suggestion would be to use this counselor for IC, not MC. If you really want to get good help hire a DB coach. MWD's site has resources on DB coaches she endorses. Traditional MC advice will not work here because it pursues and applies pressure.
That is my 2 cents, for what it is worth. And yes you hit on the points I would have made for how you are still holding on.
Agree with Steve that a non d b counselor may give you contradictory advice
D b is not for everyone but if you are going to d b then you need to be consistent
You are in a business deal that has gone bad
Issue is you are legally responsible for a lot financially until you renegotiate a new deal which you have not done
Unilaterally moving money and restricting use of her car even though you pay for it will hurt you in the eyes of the law
See a lawyer before moving any money or doing anything financially
Here is the dynamic I see
W has checked out of M
You are still checked in M
W will continue to take advantage of you treating her like a W including as much money as is selfishly possible which is classic cake eating
You keep expecting her to treat you like a H and you get angry and sad and confused when she does not
Rely more on actions than words
Rather than saying I will not let you talk to me like that and then sit there and let her continue to talk to you
Just leave or hang up the phone or whatever it takes to end the conversation
Thanks Gordie & Steve. mmaybe you missed it but I got up and left the restaurant after she was being rude, but maybe I missed your point too. I am getting stronger in that regard. I just need to pull my support financially as well.
As for our SUV, I think I'm going to let her know that since I'm paying for it, I'm going to drive it but that I'd like to sell it.
If she asks about driving my car, who cares I guess. I may ask her "You're comfortable with driving my car to commit adultery? You have your own."
I feel like such a pursuer right now, but some of this has to be made real in her mind.
I've been considering hiring a DB coach but it just seems so expensive for 50 min phone calls. That's my hangup at this point. Maybe if they read my sitch on here first and had some background I'd consider it, but again I doubt that would happen.
-telling her how I feel (following counselor's advice)
I agree with Steve, this is not DB'ing but it is consistent with traditional R advice that largely doesn't work with a WAS. The problem is you're dealing with a cheating wayward wife, she doesn't care one bit about what you are feeling. As far as she is concerned, she tried for months or years to communicate and you failed (in her eyes) so that ship has sailed. Now it's "too little too late." She's moved on to someone else for emotional support.
And even though she doesn't pay for the car, I should let her keep driving it? The payment were talking about is $1,000 a month. She stated she would not be able to keep the vehicle on her own. Ok, let's sell it IMO. I pay for the thing by myself while her cash (roughly $3,200/MO) goes god knows where.
You're getting into financial issues that as Gordie said may have legal implications, so you should seek out some legal advice on that.
Ok, I have had to to breathe, relax (errr...work), and simmer down. I'll just ask WW to pay for half of everything. No more of this "take her car away to win the battle". I'm doing that b/c I'm hurt and don't think she should drive our car to carry out her affair.
I'd like to drive our nice SUV more often, and I think I will let her know this. As for driving my car, I guess she can drive it. What the hell? Maybe she'll feel like a POS for doing the same thing in my vehicle that she's done in our vehicle.
I will discuss sharing feelings with my counselor vs. DB'ing harder. See what we think. You guys are great, so thanks for commenting.
Oh, and my next check is not going into the joint account, which is dry as of today (not that WW left much in there).
You allowed the purchase of the car! Were complicit in it.
Whose name is the loan? Whose name is the car? What is the legal position? What does your L say?
How are the fins organised? Can you just cut off the joint account?
Be very careful on overreacting.
V
We bought the car over a year ago. Both names on that vehicle loan and title.
I am not closing the account, just not going to contribute, same as WW is doing.
Anyways, I've really fallen off the wagon in a big way. WW started teasing down R path, it's hard, she doesn't want this (divorce), she wants to try but she wants to want to try. I hope that makes sense. I gave in and am a huge puss.
I am back to DB'ing. This is too much for me and now I'm just a mess.
She thinks I am being disrespectful by not letting her sleep in the marital bed. And by not letting her sleep she means me being in there. Oh well.
OK, then you have your turns on the car!
She is being disrespectful by dropping her knickers for an OM.
V
Should I move all her stuff out of the master? I've seen this thrown out there in other threads.
I had a different counselor ask me why I tolerate this affair. I said I can't do anything about it. WW will be angry when she sees this. Someone help me understand this.
New checking account is opening today, I'll be moving funds into it from my old one as my company couldn't change the deposit without more notice.
I would tell her to move out of the MBR unless her A stops and she will move her stuff along with her butt. If she doesn't then give a boundary then move it yourself.
The boundary is as long as you are in an A then you move out of the MBR.
If she says I am not in an A.
Ok show me your phone.
V
Hello all. Just a small update. Last Wednesday, I got home late. WW is awake in bed, light on. I shower and come out to get in bed, WW acts startled like I woke her up. Then complains about me sleeping in the bed. I say "do I really need to explain this again?"
I'm ready to tell her to get the heck out of our marital bed at this point. But I didn't last week, she slept in there with me. Next morning, she said goodbye when she left. Then she texted on her way to work, then called to warn me of a major accident causing traffic.
I tried getting off the phone twice, WW stopped me to ask if I got Snapchat (I did, but got rid of it 5 hours later). She got a notification. WW then asks if I'm going to the lake. I say yes to my mom's. WW asks what my mom thinks. I should have told WW to ask my mom.
WW said last week she was "prolly not ready for counseling", when I was pursuing. She is just keeping me simmering on the back burner.
WW has tried logging into my Instagram a few times too. Got an email saying it looks like you're having trouble logging in. Prolly wants to see my DM's.
Of course I get a 9 AM text message today. During the workday she can talk to me. I didn't respond.
Obviously I am not there yet. Still hanging on. But I'm ready to let go, or at least making progress. I will not answer her questions about my whereabouts. If phone call gets slow or off topic, I will say goodbye and click.
Thinking about using the phrase "that sounds like a question my wife would ask" when she is all in my business.
Act as if you just don't care. You are doing well. She will test you.
You are a centered man that is detached from this unsatisfactory sitch.
I wouldn't move her stuff out if you can stand it. Because you just don't care.
Good job on limiting responses. She will continue to test. She will step up the tests. Stay strong
She is being disrespectful by dropping her knickers for an OM.
^^^AMEN^^^
Should I move all her stuff out of the master? I've seen this thrown out there in other threads.
Yes and no. You should, but the REASON you should do it is because you are sick and tired and fed up and done. Not because it's a technique to get her attention or bring her back. TXHubby is a classic example of what I mean, his W lived in the house while actively engaging in an A and he did everything to placate her and did his version of wimpy DB'ing until one day he woke up, said "what the hell have I become, how did I let myself end up like this" and just like that the switch flipped and he was DONE. He quit caring one whit about his W and went about the business of being awesome. He GAL'd and quit explaining anything to his W, she ceased to be a factor in his life. After a while of this SHE was the one that came back begging to reconcile. And HE was the one that didn't know if he even wanted that anymore. Eventually they did recon, but not until he made her do a lot of hard work (and she did).
So my point is I hope you do get to that point where you are just DONE with her, and you throw her stuff out and cease caring about her reaction to it. I don't think you are there quite yet.
PS, here is a link to TXHubby's summary of what worked for him:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...478#Post2748478
Act as if you just don't care. You are doing well. She will test you.
You are a centered man that is detached from this unsatisfactory sitch.
I wouldn't move her stuff out if you can stand it. Because you just don't care.
Good job on limiting responses. She will continue to test. She will step up the tests. Stay strong
I mean, I feel pretty good when I have the house to myself. I enjoy working in the garage or cooking or just farting around ya know? When she gets there, it's like a dark cloud has entered the house (for me).
My counselor said something like "that must be hard to look at all her stuff, and your pictures". I was like "no, I haven't even thought about it". I guess I'm lucky about that, because her crap in the master doesn't bother me.
She is being disrespectful by dropping her knickers for an OM.
^^^AMEN^^^
Should I move all her stuff out of the master? I've seen this thrown out there in other threads.
Yes and no. You should, but the REASON you should do it is because you are sick and tired and fed up and done. Not because it's a technique to get her attention or bring her back. TXHubby is a classic example of what I mean, his W lived in the house while actively engaging in an A and he did everything to placate her and did his version of wimpy DB'ing until one day he woke up, said "what the hell have I become, how did I let myself end up like this" and just like that the switch flipped and he was DONE. He quit caring one whit about his W and went about the business of being awesome. He GAL'd and quit explaining anything to his W, she ceased to be a factor in his life. After a while of this SHE was the one that came back begging to reconcile. And HE was the one that didn't know if he even wanted that anymore. Eventually they did recon, but not until he made her do a lot of hard work (and she did).
So my point is I hope you do get to that point where you are just DONE with her, and you throw her stuff out and cease caring about her reaction to it. I don't think you are there quite yet.
PS, here is a link to TXHubby's summary of what worked for him:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...478#Post2748478 Thank you for the link. The "old me" would love to try this as a way to get her to come back (manipulation). But, I am not "done". So this approach would have no teeth, and would be a gamble.
I think I'm going to head down to Florida next week and do some scalloping and shrimping and fishing. I've been wanting to get down there.
"that sounds like a question my wife would ask" when she is all in my business."
Don't say this. Just act that way. Treat her like the cashier at Walmart. Answer yes or no questions with yes or no. Keep limiting your responses. When she starts to ask a question your W would ask, just respond that you don't feel comfortable answering that. Action, not words.
Thanks all!
One question, when I see mutual friends, or WW's friends and they ask where WW is? Do I cover for her and say "she is sick/tired/etc" , say "I don't know", or tell the truth - she's with OM.
Always tell the truth. You don't have to elaborate it, create a simple answer.
Your body knows when you are being inauthentic, micro expressions will give you away. You won't feel good on it and it can make you ill.
If there are those you have already misled apologise and say "this was hard for me to say, I apologise for misleading you, WW and I are no longer together. She is with fuckwit Wassock no brain. I am getting my life together and actually I was wondering how you/Your mum/kids/holiday went/are."
It's your business, just make this part of your story.
My thoughts
V
Let's talk about "it's a gamble."
I have to tell you your M is over. It's done, your WW is with someone else. There is nothing to gamble with. Your position is weak and nothing will change that. Only taking this action will help you and the longer you leave it the weaker your hand. Your hand is weak and you have almost no chips left.
You have no stake unless you take action.
Only by moving her from the MBR will give you a little bit of a stake back. Frankly your fear of abandonment is keeping you stuck although what you fear has already happened.
You can stand and you may not be done. Standing isn't no activity, it's doing plenty.
It's time to stop being Mr Nice Guy.
V
V,
your advice is going against RR17's, so I'm considering what you've both said.
I woke up super pissed today like I really just wanted to take all of WW's crap and drop it off at her parents house and tell her to GTFO.
It seems like taking action, at least telling her to get out of the house or moving her crap out of MBR would be a good action. I don't want to do that, but then again I didn't want any of this.
But then I wonder if me not caring about anything is better too.
Oh well. WW called me yesterday to ask question about the car, this light is on and blah blah blah. Are you going to the lake? What are you doing? Is your one friend in town this weekend? Can you grab a DVD player for me?
My new answer is going to be "NO" to pretty much everything. Gonna get off the phone quick. I'm answering the phone too much anyways.
Wonderful excuse for her to contact me and keep me on the hook in my opinion.
WW went on a text and calling rage last night.she initially accused me of changing her bank login password. She sends 5 texts in 2 min. One was "overtherainbow..." to garner sympathy.
Then a couple hours later she calls 3 times in a row.
Then texts that she will keep calling. Then that she can play these games too. Then that she appreciated the help.
Haha sorry you B I am busy and will not be your H only when you want me, then return quietly to the discard pile. I had a good time GAL last night. I hope you had a [censored] night with OM after acting like a child when you didn't get your way.
WW went on a text and calling rage last night.she initially accused me of changing her bank login password. She sends 5 texts in 2 min. One was "overtherainbow..." to garner sympathy.
Then a couple hours later she calls 3 times in a row.
Then texts that she will keep calling. Then that she can play these games too. Then that she appreciated the help.
Haha sorry you B I am busy and will not be your H only when you want me, then return quietly to the discard pile. I had a good time GAL last night. I hope you had a [censored] night with OM after acting like a child when you didn't get your way.
I get these text/call rages too. I've become pretty good at ignoring them. It's amazing how mad they can get when they don't get their way...
Do you think I did the right thing by ignoring? Or do I even need to respond?
I just will not be her H 24/7 while she is w/ OM.
Going to type this while it's fresh.
I just got home. WW immediately jumped on my butt about why I didn't call her back last Friday (about her bank account login) and how I could have at least texted her back the next day. She said that I was being mean b/c I'm not getting what I want. I said no I was busy and I can't be there for you all the time b/c you didn't want me. She told me I was "rude" so I looked at her like WTF. She asked how she was being rude and I said you know how. Then I told her I didn't change anything on her bank account login. K says "blah blah blah, you promise?". And I was again like WTF b/c I heard the word promise. I said nothing but my face was like WTF. She brings up how I promise to take care of her, and asked me if I did that. (She is right, I didn't take care of her very well.)
Then she tries yelling when I'm in the bathroom closing the door to shower. She wanted to know where the boat was. I'm not going to yell through the bathroom door to talk. so I didn't respond.
I got out of the shower and told her to get out of the bed. She said oh you're not going to be fair? "Fair" set me off and I was like "fair"? She said the house is more hers than mine technically (honey, I have news for you). I said "is that right"? "You're a cheater, you're having an affair, you're an adulterer you don't get to sleep in our bed". She just looked at me for about 5 seconds then slowly started crying. Then she grabbed all her stuff and slowly went into the other bedroom. I shut the door and am in bed now.
Good assertiveness and boundary enforcing!
She cried because you told her the truth. And you shut her flawed reality down.
Reality slaps a person living in a fantasy in the face, so yeah its going to hurt.
You did awesome. You told her the truth, sounds like you weren't mean, you didnt blame her, beg her, or ask her to stop. You let her know thru your actions, you werent going to except what she was doing.
The truth syrup will set you free. Remember to still make all your interations non judgemental and lovingly. Dont be mean, cruel or approach with anger.
All last night she was looking to blame and you didn't except any of her crap.
Excellent job
Glad you did not accept her guilt trip about not being responsive
You promised to take care of her
And she promised to forsake all others
And yes you do not have to be mean about it
But the truth is the truth
Calm and steady
Going to type this while it's fresh.
I just got home. WW immediately jumped on my butt about why I didn't call her back last Friday (about her bank account login) and how I could have at least texted her back the next day. She said that I was being mean b/c I'm not getting what I want. I said no I was busy and I can't be there for you all the time b/c you didn't want me. She told me I was "rude" so I looked at her like WTF. She asked how she was being rude and I said you know how. Then I told her I didn't change anything on her bank account login. K says "blah blah blah, you promise?". And I was again like WTF b/c I heard the word promise. I said nothing but my face was like WTF. She brings up how I promise to take care of her, and asked me if I did that. (She is right, I didn't take care of her very well.)
Then she tries yelling when I'm in the bathroom closing the door to shower. She wanted to know where the boat was. I'm not going to yell through the bathroom door to talk. so I didn't respond.
I got out of the shower and told her to get out of the bed. She said oh you're not going to be fair? "Fair" set me off and I was like "fair"? She said the house is more hers than mine technically (honey, I have news for you). I said "is that right"? "You're a cheater, you're having an affair, you're an adulterer you don't get to sleep in our bed". She just looked at me for about 5 seconds then slowly started crying. Then she grabbed all her stuff and slowly went into the other bedroom. I shut the door and am in bed now.
LOVE IT!!!
Well done sir. WASs always act so childish!
Big Update:
Well we talked this morning. My phone was off so I didn't get her text about wanting to talk. She came in the bedroom and told me that she is "shattered" and "miserable" and cried a lot. Talked a lot about her pain and I listened and validated and said sorry a time or two. Then we took a poop break and talked in the living room. Then did some more of the same. She cried a lot. After a while I got up and she asked me to sit down so I did. Then I asked her what she wanted to say. It took her a while to get to it bc she was beating around the bush. She said her blanket reminded her of the ocean floor and I said that's funny. She asked why and I told her bc I'm going to Florida next week. She starts talking about how she wants to go.
I said I'd love that, but I can't do that bc I wouldn't go with you while you are seeing someone else. And she said "OK". I was like OK what? So it took several minutes and she half assed said some things implying she wanted to try. She said she is a wimp and didn't want to say it. She said "you know what I mean". So I said what I thought she meant (about trying and there not being anyone else) and she said yes.
So I said "Now you say it", bc I want to hear it. So she said she wants to try and that she knows there can't be anyone else. So then I made some more boundaries clear and we talked more about what happened. She's ok with my boundaries. She did apologize for hurting me and said at that point she was done and moving on. There was no question in her mind. She was hurting, continuing to be hurt, and wanted to get away from that. So I was really honest about a lot and so was she. I didn't like everything I heard when we were being honest and neither did she.
My boundaries were basically about commitment and trying and I explained what it looks like for me. Primarily no OM. We talked about positive communication and being open and honest about what we need from each other. I told her it will be weird and awkward and that I won't like everything she is thinking and feeling. We talked about starting new, and how some parts of the old R were worth keeping and much needed to be new.
Anyways, this is a ton to process. I was planning on going to Florida, now W wants to go. I'm going to need to see proof she broke it off with him, and ask W if she can really be in the car with me for 10 hours and stuck sleeping with me for several days.
WOW!
I had a feeling with your last update that she was headed here.
Now to be honest with you ovrrnbw, this is what it sounds like to me:
- OM is involved with somoene else or married or in some other way unavailable for more than what it has been.
- She is "in love" with him and wants to be with him but coming to the realization that what they have is all they'll ever have.
- Since Plan A is fading fast and out, she knows she'd be a fool to let her Plan B get away.
- She is reluctant to recommit but also reluctant to let you go.
So with all that my advice is to make getting into MC a must. And not because you are insisting but because she wants to go and work on the MR.
Institute a weekly date night. If she is serious about trying then she will agree to trying to reconnect.
Look into what talk and touch charges are. My W and really hit our stride in R when we really sat down to talk to one another.
I am excited for you but caution you that she has a lot of work to do. Don't let her skate on it.
O- very happy for you!-proceed with caution. But thanks for giving us all HOPE!!
O, that's a good start on her part. But I don't know if I'd take a trip that soon with her. You need to proceed with caution and you need to make it clear to her that she doesn't just snap her fingers and you come running back. She needs to WORK to get you back. That means counseling, that means TOTAL TRANSPARENCY regarding OM. She needs to be willing to answer ANY and ALL questions you have. And she needs to be willing to turn her phone over to you for review at any given time. She thinks that's an invasion of privacy? Well tough, she gave up her right to privacy when she cheated on you and then decided she wanted to come back. Be firm with her and keep your walls up! Good luck!
OK now she feels like she doesn't want to try and that she is just a mess.
She said she is so confused. That she is everything right now and feels like she is in a tornado. She doesn't know where to go, what to do, which way to turn. Talking about our problems was fine, but she was reminded of our old R and how she didn't like it. She can't force herself.
This lasted about 3 hours. She said something reminded her of our old relationship when we were looking at condos. Maybe I can be with you but I can't right now.
WTF was I thinking taking her to Florida with me...I brought up how she wanted to leave right then and there (when we were talking earlier) and said how she was doing that to "escape her tornado". I asked if that would actually help and she didn't know but that it sounded good at the time.
She wanted to make a choice and not think about it anymore. But that's what she did today.
Guess it's time to back off the pursuit and go back to LRT and validating her feelings.
ovrrnbw, this is typical. My W did the same thing. I wouldn't react to her roller-coasting as it will just make it worse. Steady, slow, even-keeled wins the race.
I've told this before (and its in my threads) but I'll share again. About 3 weeks after BD, on a Friday night, I told my W that there was no way I would tolerate her continuing her EA and that if she wanted to work on things with me then she would have to agree to full transparency. That meant handing her phone over anytime I asked unlocked. That meant me knowing all of her PWs and having access to all accounts (social, emal, etc). Her reply? "Okay, I will start working on my resume so that I can move out."
She started that night. It was the first time I showed detachment. In fact, I think she said the line above mostly to get me to back off. When I remained firm, and acted as if I didn't care one way or the other, it was completely different than I had behaved in the previous 3 weeks. I offered to buy her any books she thought would help, especially with interviewing since she hadn't gone on an interview since 2000-2001.
She continued working on the resume the next day (Saturday). That evening she came in to the living-room. I was watching TV and doing some DB research online about detachment, letting go, etc. She sat down on the couch on the end closest to me (I was in the recliner), and sighed heavily. I ignored it. She then said "Am I doing the right thing?" I responded with "What do you mean?" She said "Leaving." I said "You have to do what you need to in order to be happy. It sounds like staying with me isn't it." She then went on about how God hates divorce. And that she so wanted to want to stay, but didn't feel that way. She cried and said she didn't want to break up our family, and do to our daughter what her parents had done to her (they divorced when she was 10). From that moment forward she never again touched her resume. I remained detached, non-reactive. I didn't console her. I remained firm on the fact that she was resolved to leaving.
But it seemed like a real breakthrough. It was the first time since BD where she seemed to be leaning toward staying. Not just in word (though she was clearly saying she wasn't sure) but in deed, by not working on her resume any further. I was filled with hope. I remember breaking down the next morning in the shower, and crying and thanking God. It showed me the power of letting go and detaching, and how that doing that was already having an impact on her even though I had only done it well for a few days. I was filled with hope!
3 days later I stumbled across her profile, that she had just put up that day, on an online dating site. Full picture, description, and a long explanation about how she was just testing the waters and couldn't date yet because she was married, but that she was done and had made it clear she wanted a divorce. And that she might not respond to messages but to go ahead and message her and she would respond once she was free.
WWs are flaky and, not to defend them, they don't even know what they want. Even after the above incident, a few weeks later I snooped and found that on another online dating site, after I confronted about the above, she had a private profile (no one could see it unless she allowed them) and she had been messaging guys that were 15-20 years younger than her! When I confronted her on that she said "I don't know what I am doing!" And though you can't believe anything they say I truly believe she didn't! Waywardness had her in its grip and she didn't feel the same way from moment to moment!
Okay this got long, but the point is simply that you have to give her time to sort out her feelings. My W followed a similar path at the beginning of R where she would have moments of not being sure R is what she wanted. Continue DBing through out this period. Stay up on GAL, 180s and detachment. One of the things that most LBHs don't realize is that Ws, and even GFs find it attractive when their Hs or BFs don't need them. Think about it, a W in an affair is all into someone that gives them a fraction of their time! The opposite of neediness is very attractive to most women. Yet we Hs that are or were codependent are so needy no wonder they aren't attracted to us!
Keep up the good work ovrrnbw....don't ever give up.
OK now she feels like she doesn't want to try and that she is just a mess. She said she is so confused. That she is everything right now and feels like she is in a tornado. She doesn't know where to go, what to do, which way to turn. Talking about our problems was fine, but she was reminded of our old R and how she didn't like it. She can't force herself.
What was your response to that? It should have been to listen and validate, nothing more. Hold your course and let her flop around like a fish out of water, not your problem. Who is the lighthouse and who is the hot mess? Like I said before, SHE has to do all the work to get YOU back. YOU are the prize here.
This lasted about 3 hours. She said something reminded her of our old relationship when we were looking at condos. Maybe I can be with you but I can't right now.
"W, I am sorry you are struggling with this. But please understand, I don't know if I can be with you anymore either. So much has happened and I don't know if I can trust you again. I am here for you if you need to talk, but to build a new relationship we will have to have a lot of discussions about how to proceed."
PUT HER ON NOTICE! You are not just sitting around as a convenient plan B. Steve's post is a great example of how loony things can get before recon happens. You need to stay true to yourself while she sorts out her mess. And it is HER mess.
WTF was I thinking taking her to Florida with me...I brought up how she wanted to leave right then and there (when we were talking earlier) and said how she was doing that to "escape her tornado". I asked if that would actually help and she didn't know but that it sounded good at the time.
Wherever she goes, there she is. She can't run and escape her tornado.
Guess it's time to back off the pursuit and go back to LRT and validating her feelings.
You never should have stopped. Next time you think about changing course, remember this incident.
She tested the waters, your boundaries and found that they have given way quite easily.
Hold your boundary, no R chance if you are with OM.
"WW, I am not paying the triangulation game, nor the pick me dance. I am worth a complete R with."
So validate her confusion but keep up the truth darts. That was a spell break moment because now you know you can never unknow. And you have cut her crap denial and gaslighting.
I hope you have a screenshot of that dating profile.
-----------------------
I also think OM isn't in the bag and it's likely if she has a dating profile, it might have been if you had moved out of the MH and left her to be 'happy ever after ' and she now knows that isn't going to happen.
A modified Plan B looks better than an inoperable Plan A. Otherwise it's a very unpleasant Plan C. Or a new OM from online.
She feels sorry for herself and it was her own choices that did it.
V
Hey V,
my WW has no dating profile that I have ever seen or known about (that was in Steve's post though). She does feel sorry for herself, most of her remorse is self centered as is most of her focus in our talks.
I do need to hold firm on my boundaries. Say something like "Sorry W, I'd love to discuss that with you but I cannot as you are still seeing OM."
Steve,
thanks for sharing that story. My biggest takeaway from that is to continue detaching and dropping the rope. She said things are crazy in her head - her head literally hurt trying to figure this all out and she complained about it several times. She described it as "being in a tornado". So I need to be the calm one, sure about myself and my boundaries. Letting go, made me strong inside, and after yesterday I am softer. I need to get strong and continue with dropping the rope and not tying my happiness to her crazy ass feelings.
AS,
my response was to validate and then talk her out of it. I spent way too much time doing that when I should have just validated, left at that, and got back to my day as if it were nothing. I hope to make a lesson out of it and not a habit.
Now for today:
I texted her in the morning about her expressing some puling back that I was going to do and disappointment on my part. She started blowing up my phone with calls and texts. Some sad, some mad, some explanations. Then some truth about her feelings being all over the place and how she can't control them. And how she isn't strong right now and that she wants me to understand.
Then we talked on the phone, I validated her feelings. She asked and I told her what my day looks like and what stops I was making (including one at our favorite lunch place since I was going to be in the city). She calls back later saying her lunch plans fell through and can she come with me. I said yes, and she met me at my office. It was pretty ok, light talks for the probably half the time but she asked about my sister and me and Mom and the lake and Dad too. I told her Mom knows and she kinda cried.
After lunch she said "do you want to try with me bc you care about me or just bc of your vows?" And I said no, "not bc of my vows". And I asked her the same question and she answered the same. We both cried a little and held hands for the rest of the ride. Then I asked "that doesn't mean you want to try with me though right? And she didn't say she did want to try. We talked a little more and I just kept validating her feelings and not trying to convince to go against them. She is scared of getting hurt being with me (that's what she said anyways).
When we got back to my office I said I saw you were looking at VRBO’s (condo rentals) and what was that about? And she said she kinda wants to go (to Florida)… We talked for a minute I said goodbye and went to walk in the office, she asked for a hug so I gave her one. She held on for a while. Now she’s at OM’s apt. I’m prepared to hear how dumb I am.
I think I need to:
1. Shutup
2. Stop pursuit again
3. Listen, validate (except BS)
4. Firm up boundaries.
5. Remain distant/unavailable for phone and text
Ovr,
I'm going to keep this one short. She held hands with you all day, then went by the OM house. Do you think she went over there to hold hands with him?
She USED to try and clear up her guilt, find a way not to commit and keep you on her hook and all it took was her holding your hand. Stop going on rides with her, just ✋, step back and look at your Sitch objectively. You told her, "I cant discuss blah blah with you seeing if you are with the OM". Soon as she call, you drop your boundary. IMO, on this day, you were weak and unattractive. You are her PLANB
I know it's hard, but you are going to have to pull yourself out of this misery.
She has three choices:
A. Move on from you and stay with OM
B. Move on from OM and stay with you
C. Move on from both of you
At the moment all three options are to painful for her and she want her cake. But guess what, you control two options. B and C. Her worst nightmare at The moment is being left with on option. You control B & C!
And once you declare a boundary, you must stick to it. If not you lose all control.
Agree with joe joe and think you do too
So when she is nice and crying and holding your hand and sharing her feelings it is really hard to detach
But the advice I got here and had to keep remembering is
she dumped you as H and right now is OM s GF
Once my w broke up with her OM then I started listening to her again
This is extremely difficult
bro hugs for you
I decided to post b/c I feel crappy doing the "right thing", at least as far as DB'ing.
Let me explain...
I talked Friday about boundaries, and then Saturday I pussed out and hung out with WW. Then she left and stayed elsewhere. *2x4 to my own head*
So I spent Saturday night and all day Sunday GAL. I realized actions speak louder than words and thought to myself "toughen up, buttercup".
WW starts calling and texting this morning, 5 texts and 5 calls in a couple of hours. I finally answer, she wants to "try to hangout tonight" (Note: this doesn't mean try on R). I stayed firm on the boundary. She kept asking saying she wanted to see how it goes to see if we can work out in a potential R. And I said I don't know how we (or anyone) can work on their R with a 3rd person in the mix. She got all sad and tried explaining it through her confusion and stuff like that. She didn't want to say goodbye back to me, but I needed to get back to work so I said goodbye and hung up.
So it feels crappy b/c I really, deep down want to hang out with her. And obviously I want more than that. I want everything a MR is supposed to be.
ovrrnw, your choice appears to DB and push through the "crappy" feeling while doing it. OR, you can become her friend for life.
Personally I'd opt for the 1st over the 2nd. Even if that meant eventually we aren't together.
You can't nice her back. You can't friend her back. You can't hang with her back. There may come a time when she decides that she wants to R, and that you decide hanging is one of the ways to make that happen. Until then she is trying to have her cake and eat it too.
I probably pursued a bit this morning.
I told WW sorry I couldn't hang out with you last night but it seems like your mad about it. She says we could have still talked but you didn't come home til 9:30 (I was GAL) and that she wasn't mad. I told her I didn't know if she'd be home and that I had to stand up for what I think is right (no hanging out w/ OM still around).
I asked if she was going to "go with her gut" for the rest of her life (this is her excuse for jumping from me to OM). She said something about not planning things out, I asked if she was going to be home tonight. She said no, I said that sounds like you planned that out. I feel deceived, but didn't say that.
Now, this morning she texts me saying "It's fine u didn't wanna hangout last night. Don't worry about it". Well, yea, we discussed that earlier.
Then she texts again about another thing, then texts "??", then my name with a "...".
I think she is stomping her feet at not getting me to do what she wanted.
Advice or thoughts?
you stated your boundary, stick to it. Shes getting frustrated you didn't jump at every text. Leave it alone. Let her come to you. Like was said on an earlier post on your thread by JoeJoe.
"She has three choices:
A. Move on from you and stay with OM
B. Move on from OM and stay with you
C. Move on from both of you"
you stated that OM needs to be out of the picture.
Let her choose between the three options.
Option B is your boundary. Enforce it.
Over
You need to fake it until you make it
You still feel attached and trying to interpret what every word and text and move mean
So how to get there from here
Turn off your phone when you are at work or engaged or just do not want to be bothered
She she asks why did you not call me back
Then you can honestly say you were busy and did not get her call
And then get busy so busy you are not obsessed with her every move
Remember your boundaries
Your actions will speak louder than words
But do not hesitate to repeat if necessary calmly and confidently
I do not want to be in a three way R
No more needs to be said
Thanks Gordie and Orange,
actions and attitudes mean more than words. My priest was giving me a lot of honest feedback last night and it was good to hear. I felt stronger afterwords. I think W picks up on that.
W called while I was on my way to meet him and was like "do you want to skip that and come hang out/talk to me". I said no, but maybe after that we can talk.
We got food and talked, the truth made her cry a lot. Oh well, it had that effect on me but I got over/used to it a while back.
Got home and talked more, then I told her that I don't mind talking to her but I have things I need too but that I was going to bed.
She came in the MBR and said she wanted to sleep in there. I said "are you mine, or someone else's"? She didn't want to answer so I said there's your answer, go sleep in the other bedroom.
This morning she comes in the MBR and wants to "try" and "work on us". I didn't cave so easily this time and said we need to do counseling, you need to be prepared to face my friends and family, there's going to be a lot of work and are you ready for all that. Are you going to call me later today and back out?
Well now, here we are...I guess I can go reread the DB chapters for people who aren't in the LRT, right? Or how do I handle from here?
Overnbow, I'm really happy to read this. All I can say is I've been through this once already and I said the same things about counseling and a lot of work etc.. and my husband said yes, he'd do anything and can't live without his family. Guess what? He didn't put in the work. So I guess you need to go in stages and not offer a complete yes or no, or make it conditional upon simply going to counseling, but rather on her actions to restore your trust and rebuild the marriage. I think the burden should be on her. You can state what you need to see happen to give her another chance but I wouldn't be too quick to offer that second chance. Perhaps you can say it depends. You and your wife are young and this just happened recently so it seems it can be fixed, but you and your wife still have a long life and future ahead of you. If you let this slide too easily it will teach her she can do it again and still get away with it, so there's a lot to consider. It seems you can say how you'd love to make it work and try again but you're not sure until she really proves that she wants that too. In any case it's great news and you're getting the second chance that many dream to have!
This morning she comes in the MBR and wants to "try" and "work on us". I didn't cave so easily this time and said we need to do counseling, you need to be prepared to face my friends and family, there's going to be a lot of work and are you ready for all that. Are you going to call me later today and back out?
Well now, here we are...I guess I can go reread the DB chapters for people who aren't in the LRT, right? Or how do I handle from here?
she is wishy washy... "do not believe anything she says and only half of what she does," applies here... do not give in to her just because she says she wants to "try." keep your boundaries... keep detaching and keep GAL... until she truly shows you, proves to you that she is serious about working on the M, and that means absolutely no OM in any way, shape or form... no slowly letting go of him... no "one more meeting," with him... no "we are just friends communication" with him... NADA... until she demonstrates that she is sincere in her efforts, keep behaving like she is in an A... mis dos centavos...
--artista
I just loathe that word "try".
Weasel word.
V
Thanks for keeping me grounded you guys.
W is all over the place.
Wanted to go to the lake with me, now wants to go out of town to visit her sister by herself.
I asked if she told OM what she's doing. She said yes. I asked what she said. She told me she doesn't have to tell me everything. I suggested sleeping in separate beds.
Woke up early and fix something small on the car she'll be driving that she told me about last week.
Expectations are zilch. We'll see what happens.
Wanted to go to the lake with me, now wants to go out of town to visit her sister by herself.
So let her. you dont care.
I asked if she told OM what she's doing.
WHHYYYY!!????
Dude, dont do that again, dont bring up OM, ask about him, or anything.
Acknowledging his existence, CERTAINLY if shes still living at home and in MBR.
That's a One way express ticket to The Friend Zone.
Set your boundaries and stick to them.
She said yes. I asked what she said. She told me she doesn't have to tell me everything. I suggested sleeping in separate beds.
This shows she has ZERO respect for you, dont suggest, DEMAND separate sleeping.
You enjoy sleeping with a cheater?
do you like being beholden to an adulterer?[/quote]
Woke up early and fix something small on the car she'll be driving that she told me about last week.
Expectations are zilch. We'll see what happens.
Again. Why?
Let OM fix her damn car, or she can pay a mechanic. Not your responsibility anymore. She bailed.
she chose to walk out on the vows and partnership, which means she doesnt get to expect you do to JACK for her.
Stop being a doormat, and cut the NGS stuff OVRN
Be a warrior.
Agree with orange
Right now your w is another man s girlfriend
Stop doing stuff for her
Overrnbow, there must be some process these spouses go through where they go back-and-forth between what to do. It's still great yours is showing signs of wanting to reconcile but it seems a lot more has to happen on her end to convince you. I believe that by being tough and strong right at this time it will accelerate her decision to come back. It's so hard to avoid doing nice things or feeling so happy when the spouse starts talking about coming back. But then if they're still in that other relationship they'll just take advantage of your kind gestures. It's so unfair. It's still good news though that your wife may be nearing a turning point. I hope she thinks hard and deep right now about her choices.
Orange, Gordie. There's been a couple of updates that you may have missed.
I did "let her" go to see her sister. In fact, you worded it from a position of control, which I never mentioned I had (control) and don't pretend to have.
I'm not going to let her come back into the MBR if she is still seeing the OM, which when I asked her if she told OM what she's doing that meant did she tell him she was done with OM and working on her marriage. I'm not going to "hang out" or "date" her if the OM is still around. Maybe this wasn't clear before - this is my boundary.
Up until this week, she'd been staying with OM 5 or 6 nights a week. On the nights she did stay, we hadn't been sleeping in the same bed except once or twice here and there. She stayed home 3 nights in a row this week in a spare bedroom. This is a big change, not that it means everything is hunky dory.
Me suggesting sleeping in separate beds is relevant b/c it was our first night since she said she wanted to "try" and she expected to be a brat and still get to sleep in the MBR with me. This was boundary enforcement.
I woke up early to fix the car b/c it's my car, I like fixing [censored], and b/c I said I would.
Ovrrynbow, one other thought comes to mind. If the other man ends the relationship with your wife, or they're having problems and she's starting to think he'll bail, she might choose to come back to you by default but she'll still have feelings for the other man and would go back to him if he offers her another chance. She's obviously not at that point yet, but if she does come back and start working on the marriage again it's important to somehow independently verify if she ended the relationship or if he did. I now know my husband was dumped by his first affair partner which is probably one reason why he came back so quickly the first time (and probably dumped by his second affair partner which is why he didn't file for divorce). One other concern is if your wife is only 27 this is not good. At that age many, if not the majority, of people are still unmarried. There are a lot of temptations out there if she's not ready to settle down. So it sounds like she needs to grow up and learn what it means to be married and honor marriage vows. I hope she'll learn this lesson so you and she can have a strong marriage before having kids or reaching other important milestones.
I misinterpreted the talk to OM part
Good news for you
Be very very patient
I think many of us expect this awesome return with no looking back
With fireworks and apologies and wild sex
And maybe that happens to some
But for most it is very very very slow and non linear
Lots of damage has been done
Lots of work to do
And both parties need to want to do it
No shortcut
Ovrrnbw, reading thru I think your sitch is improving but it is not going to have a dramatic overnight change. She has doubts in her heart that does not mean R. I like Gordie's advice to you. No R talks and be very patient. - arshi
We can talk R if she initiates, right?
She is all over the place this week.
Do I text her or call her while she is gone? "Hope you're having fun" or something like that.
I haven't called or texted yet.
Ovr- do not initiate contact that is pursuit. Just focus on what you can control - You - Blessings!
Would you text your neighbor hope you are having fun if you know they are away? Stop the pursuit. If she initiates any talk listen and validate. She cannot say let’s R - tell me yes or no right now. You are still orbiting her , find yourself another activity
Here's a little update:
W got home from Chicago on Sunday night and said she stayed at her (girl) friend's house. I don't believe it but that's the story. She refused to find a way to assure me she was even there.
She's been home every night this week. Acting weird: kissed me, touched me, talked to me, hung out with me, went to marriage counseling, asked about putting our rings on.
The bad: she accidentally called me OM's name a few times (barf), she says what she did isn't an affair and that my friends/family are looking at it the wrong way, says her parents support that it wasn't an affair, says her parents almost invited her to bring OM to the lake on the 4th.
Today: W is running like a chicken with her head cut off. Adding all this extra stuff this morning for me to do to get ready for the lake, switching cars last minute, not leaving me a key so I'm trapped in the house, wanting me to ask you if dad's going to the lake (I think it's rude), telling me to go ask a neighbor to move the boat so I can get out.
I called her after I got everything done and left the house, she was blaming me and yelling at me for not thinking ahead to realize I'd be driving the SUV. Eventually I said well if you were thinking ahead then you shouldn't have taken both SUV keys. She yelled at me for saying "I don't know" too much, so after that I asked her a question and her response was "I don't know". But that was OK. I was calling her to try to destress from everything and laugh about it but she wants to stir the pot. It was crazy. I couldn't start the SUV bc she had both keys. I couldn't get the truck out bc the boat was blocking it. She told me to use a neighbor/friend's truck to move the boat and confirmed with him that I could and that the keys were in it. I didn't want to use it though bc she just told me a day or two ago that him and his gf were saying a bunch of stuff about me. But W didn't respond when I told her that. Eventually a guy in the neighborhood helped me out.
Then she said "maybe this is it" and I said what does that mean. She's like that's it. I should have just said that I don't care if it is bc "this is it" is better than being treated like [censored]. And she's all saying on the phone that I shouldn't be comfortable around her friends/family and I'm thinking well I have news for you.
Thanks y'all for following my sappy story.
Ovrrnbow, Wow, I don't even know what to say! That's just crazy. Your wife is totally out-of-control. I guess she's still flipping back-and-forth between you and OM and trying to justify her actions. Did you find out if OM broke it off? Even if he did, it sounds like you and your wife have a whole other set of issues to fix if you reconcile, in particular her erratic behavior and taking things to such extremes. That doesn't sound tolerable to you in the long-term even if she decides to stay and end her affair. I hope DB still keeps helping you and you can stay rational!
Well we went to the lake, had a good day Friday until she got drunk and blacked out. Dropped f bombs at the restaurant, wanted to wait outside, then wanted to jump out of the moving car. I called her parents to try to talk sense into her so maybe she wouldn't go to jail.
Of course her parents blame me for letting her get drunk. I should have used their line: "I can't control her". I perused her phone while she was passed out and found out she, surprise, didn't go to Chicago the weekend before and hadn't broke it off with the OM. Two big lies. I slept in the other bedroom. So the next day I'm ready to pack up and she's all "I love you, let's stay, blah blah blah". So I stayed.
Day is going OK but she brings up the affair, saying it's not an affair. If you bring up the basic facts, she goes to how my mom had an affair or how I didn't treat her right. So again I slept in the other bedroom.
Sunday she wants me to come inside to talk, I say no, you're seeing someone else we have nothing to talk about. I tell her I'm going to mass and she can go into town if she wants while I'm at mass. After mass she wants to hang out, I stayed strong and said "No, we can't hang out while OM is around". She says she can't tell him bc she has a cooler and some belongings there. I tell her that means very little to me and that I can't hang out with her. Finally she texts him to end it, but it's snapchat and doesn't save the message. I tell her I don't believe her several times, so she let's me read the response which basically confirms it. But OM's name is saved as "Brittany", her friend's name, instead of the guy's name. So I'm like wait WTF? Who did you text? Then she says I am being mean to her by sticking firm to my boundary.
She's mad at my mom bc my mom accidentally sent a text to the group chat (sister, mom, me) instead of just my sister. My mom said she wonders what is going on with me and how much more I can take and the obvious isn't clicking. I tell this to WW to make her feel better, saying my mom says isn't happy with me either. WW takes offense, of course.
She's mad at me bc I was pissed and let her sleep in the car Friday night until 12:30 (I stayed up, didn't go to bed with her out there) and that I didn't want to talk to her or sleep in bed with her Friday night.
Rest of Sunday went fairly well. Great. Monday: she asks me this morning to do something tonight, I agree. She calls at work to ask what I've told my mom/sister today about our situation. I'm at work so it's hard to talk. Then she says she's going to talk to her mom after work bc she has "mixed feelings" and that I was being controlling and mean to her over the weekend.
WW told me in so many words and through several convos that she is not in control of herself, feels like a tornado inside her, is so up and down, very upset. I didn't tell her she's depressed but that she can get help and do something about it.
Once again I have this splitting headache from dealing with all of this, just like on Saturday.
What's the strategy from here?
"Of course her parents blame me for letting her get drunk."
Stop talking to them 100%, they are enablers.
"Then she says I am being mean to her by sticking firm to my boundary. "
Because you arent doing what SHE wants you too, pissed you arent letting her eat cake.
STICK TO YOUR BOUNDARY.
"I perused her phone while she was passed out and found out she, surprise, didn't go to Chicago the weekend before and hadn't broke it off with the OM. Two big lies. I slept in the other bedroom. So the next day I'm ready to pack up and she's all "I love you, let's stay, blah blah blah". So I stayed."
Well now you know 100% she is Full of BS. Dont let her convince you otherwise again.
You should have left.
" I tell her I don't believe her several times, so she let's me read the response which basically confirms it. But OM's name is saved as "Brittany", her friend's name, instead of the guy's name. So I'm like wait WTF? Who did you text? "
Yet another poorly constructed lie and you know it. Stop letting her BS you So easily.
"Day is going OK but she brings up the affair, saying it's not an affair."
This is BS, CONFIRMED. Dont let her lie to you. DOnt accept lies.
"If you bring up the basic facts, she goes to how my mom had an affair or how I didn't treat her right."
Exuses, meekly justifying her behavior.
Answer A: "My mother wasnt any more right to do that than you are"
Answer B: "Even if true, not an exuse to cheat, you made a descision WIFE, own it. We both know you are actively cheating"
"I tell this to WW to make her feel better"
Stop giving her soft plush landing pads dude. LET HER HIT THE FLOOR.
"She's mad at me bc I was pissed and let her sleep in the car Friday night until 12:30 "
"Next Time dont drink yourself stupid and embarass yourself, act your age"
"Monday: she asks me this morning to do something tonight, I agree."
Whatever happened to - ""No, we can't hang out while OM is around"????
Id really stop folding and doing what she wants when she wants it if i were you.
GET MAD!!
"WW told me in so many words and through several convos that she is not in control of herself"
More BS excuse making. Anything to not accept blame and shame. She did this, she chose this, She is an adult. If she isnt in control of herself she should check herself into a mental facility.
"What's the strategy from here?"
Please excuse the blunt Steel I-Beam (no mere 4x8)
Take your balls back.
Stand your ground and retain your boundaries.
You know whats BS and what isnt.
You know what is excuses and blame shifting.
Stop tolerating it.
Stop letting her walk over you and treat you like S**T.
I think shes so complacent about walking all over you, if you actually start standing up for yourself she wont know WTF is going on.
I would pack up her stuff and remove it from your bedroom. Dont back down on this.
Tell her, dont ask.
YOU ARE CHEATING. I WONT LIVE WITH OR SLEEP WITH A CHEATER.
YOU ARE NOT A CUCKHOLD.
Strength to you brother.
Orange, I think you may have missed the part where she showed me the response after she sent OM a message saying it's over. (Again, it's snapchat, I'm not 100% on what her message said either, and I know our DB rule on what to believe).
I didn't let her BS me on the name "Brittany" for OM. I confronted it and asked why she did that? Clearly, to hide it.
I didn't miss that. my wife did the exact same thing. The day after I found out about the affair, I made her pull up his name on her phone and watched her text him saying that I knew about The affair and that they couldn't see each other anymore. I watched as he replied and said okay I understand. they had it planned ahead of time, knowing the eventuality of me finding out was inevitable. I'm telling you from my own miserable experience, when other board members say don't believe anything they say, we aren't kidding. I would bet a month's pay that the exchange that you were shown on Snapchat was planned. you are believing what you want to believe, I did the same thing for months. I still struggle with doing it now. I'm not trying to be harsh with you dude, I'm trying to spare you months of chasing your tail with a broken heart. it truly is helpful to look at other people's situations, being a third-party it's so easy to see what should be the clear path and it's so difficult to watch people bang their heads against the wall, but yet it's so easy to do in our own situations because we love the people that hurt us. literally 20 minutes ago I was crying like a grieving mother while telling my sister-in-law through racking sobs that I missed my wife, even though I I'm fully aware of all the horrible things she has done. my point is that I will readily admit that I am still often blind and stubborn in regards to my own situation, but yet it breaks my heart to read a situation like yours where you're doing all of the same things that I have been doing
Ovr I am sorry but I feel you are still available and she knows it. Tough love buddy, you know you can do it. She knows you are still hurting and that she can string you along. What would you do to show her that you can move in without her? What would make her feel she may be losing you?
Overrnbw, in reading your updates I get the impression that your wife may need some space to sort through her feelings and to calm down. It sounds like sleeping in the same bed and planning social activities together at this time may exacerbate the problems as she feels torn between you and the other man and her double life. It must be a lot of work to carry on two relationships at once and to constantly be pulled in two directions. You can't control what your wife does but you can create circumstances that make it easier for her to calm down and to get some relief for yourself as well. It sounds like you did the right thing by saying you can't hang out on Sunday but you accepted her offer for yesterday - perhaps taking a complete 'time out' for the foreseeable future could be the right strategy at this point?
I don't truly know if the OM is actually out of the picture or what. She made me believe so on Sunday afternoon, but time will tell.
I'm struggling with:
- do I ask her to do things?
- can I say "I'm doing this, you're welcome to come." ??
- do I text/call her to say have a good day?
- do I provide affection if she asks for it?
Ovr I am sorry but I feel you are still available and she knows it. Tough love buddy, you know you can do it. She knows you are still hurting and that she can string you along. What would you do to show her that you can move in without her? What would make her feel she may be losing you?
Well I guess I just need to GAL and let her sit at home at night?
It's not like she's talked to me the last 2 nights anyways.
And I'm not excited about the ups and downs. Things were doing better until Monday when she talks to her Mom and sister who are influencing a lot right now.
I think tonight I'll go do something fun for me. I'm just worried that I shouldn't be b/c she's stayed w/ me for 11 days now. That is progress.
Here being up and down, not talking much to me, that is regression.
I don't think she's going to MC with me today either (she went last week). She said "I don't think I like it". Ya OK.
What worked for me was I just cancelled the MC appointment. MC is for both of you. I'd recommend getting into IC instead of attending MC alone.
I'm going to do that Steve. I've been doing IC as well. Thank you.
Now I'm going to vent like a MF. So pissed right now.
I decided to wait til this morning to check the car app on location/trip history. WW is all playing the role this week, asking me to come home and do stuff. But that hit the breaks Thursday. But she still slept in MBR. No text/calls Thursday til today. Friday she goes some fair ( I only know her location bc our car's gps and maptracker). I didn't make it home til late bc I had a wake and went out after. Saturday I'm at the neighborhood pool and get back in the afternoon. WW is back and laying in bed. I left to "go out", at least it looked that way. I went to read and then hang out with my sister. Looks like late last night WW, went to a party and then to OM's house.
I'm just pissed, so pissed. She told me she loved me 3 times last weekend but I didn't say it back, the week before that she initiated with me 2 times. WTF am I doing? I need to get tested obviously. I feel bad for hiding this but I'm throwing it all out there now. Monday of last week she asks for a kiss when I'm leaving. What. The. Fudge.
I am so close to just texting the OM to let her know how much she lied to him in the last couple weeks, taking her car and leaving her stranded, filing for divorce. Or just text W and telling how much of a lying bitch she is. I'm just livid. Got to type this out and calm down. I'm at the house smoking ribs and have plans for some fun this afternoon but god dang how much BS does a guy have to put up with?
And her freaking parents, telling her it wasn't affair - that it's not black and white. What. The. Fudge. Why in the holy hell are they lying? I guess maybe they are in denial. But if it's not wrong, if it wasn't an affair, why did my MIL miss so many days of work bc she was distraught? And my SIL and W's skank friends encouraging an affair. Screw em all.
WW is losing hair again, something that happened 6 years ago when we first met and periodically. Dr told her it could be stress related back then.
I've been detaching and GAL but I'm CLEARLY not there. I'm so upset you guys. Guess it's time to reread Cadet's post and calm down.
And why in the everloving hell do I still care? This is what kills me...
Over sorry for the recent developments
You still care because you loved her
It is totally acceptable and understandable to be angry
Here is what I did when I was exactly where you are
Cease all contact for you because it is hurting you
When she says why you do not need to respond
Let your actions speak louder than your words
Or you can simply restate that you choose not to be in a three way relationship
When she says she loves you
Say no you do not
Someone who loves me does not lie to me and cheat on me
Please stop saying that you love me
It makes a mockery of those words
Hi Overrnbw, you have every right to feel that way. You've been dealing with this behavior for months now. It seems like you've kept your composure as much as you possibly could but we all have our breaking points. I think it's good you checked the car app's history to find out where your wife went. It gave you the truth, which is something you need right now to make the right decision. I agree with Gordie's advice and I really do know how hard it is to execute that strategy (cut-off contact) because you're a fair man who loves his wife and wants to give her another chance, but it sounds like involving yourself in this three-way relationship isn't healthy for you and isn't propelling your wife towards ending it with OM. I do believe your wife will figure this out eventually and choose you, because you're her real husband and her home is with you, but she's just not there yet.
If you decided to do any of those extreme actions that you wrote about, like contacting OM, filing for divorce, etc.. then I don't blame you. You don't want to play the role of the fool. If you do something bold and stand up for yourself, even if it's not in line with DB, I still don't blame you because we're all human and we all lose it sometimes. I'm guessing you didn't do any of those things but it's tempting. When my husband first had an affair I wanted to throw his computer out the window and I really thought about doing it. I didn't, but that's how mad I was. I hope you can quickly make some decisions that you feel bring justice to yourself and no longer let your wife take advantage of you.
Agree with Nicole
The other thing that seems to be hurting you is the physical contact
Only you know that
But when my w was cheating on me
Her touch repulsed me
If you have always freely been physical with your w
Then the 180 speaks volumes
I´m sorry for the last news Over. I agree with the guys, you need a 180 here. You need to detach. Be strong man.
Thank you all for responding to my frustration last weekend, and thanks for asking today!
I'm hurt and sad. I so wanted to believe we were trying (in the MR) and things were going the right direction.
I still want to "set the record" straight. W told me last week, before she left, that her mom said I was being controlling/manipulative by setting my boundary with her (not hanging out if she is with OM).
I want to convince the inlaws that she is in an affair, bc they said it's not an affair.
I want to text the OM/his family to clue him in on the lies she told him. But they're hoosier trash and might love the drama.
I want to yell at my WW and call her a liar, a cheater, a fraud. You told me you loved me, asked about wearing rings, made love to me, kissed me.
I want to set an ultimatum and divorce her, but I'm not ready and don't know when I will be.
I haven't contacted my W, nothing from her. But she is a weasel and is probably scared anyways bc she knows she lied and betrayed me again.
She tried logging into my Instagram again, I got an email saying you're having trouble logging in at 3:43 AM. Nope, not me.
So I'm fighting all of this and trying my best to detach. I'm down at the lake now w/ my mom and her husband and my sister. Going skiing, swimming, boating, cooking, and relaxing.
And I'm trying my best to help some of the newbies here.
Overrnbw, where is your wife? Did she move out? Or you're just not spending time at home?
It's tempting to do all of those things. It's extraordinarily difficult to do what you're doing - detaching and staying out of the drama. That's not fair what your wife's mom is saying but I guess you can never count on in-laws.
The lake and being with family sounds like a good thing right now. What does your own family say about the situation?
Wife hasn't moved out, she just stays at OM's apt or parents house. But she slither in when I'm not there usually.
I'm it at home much usually. Go to the lake a lot or GAL.
My mom gates my W and wants me to file for divorce. My sister thinks my wife is full of "it" and a b with an itch.
In laws are in denial about the truth and care more about having their daughter around than being truthful and scaring her off.
Try to detach ovr. Try to protect yourself. Keep GAL. It’s hard man but you need to be respected. You can control what others say or think. Detach, detach, detach. It takes time but you must do it to take care of yourself.
Get the strength and keep moving.
Just read through your sitch (that the correct word, right) ovrrnbw.
Wow man...my chest aches at what you're going through. At least my scenario is (for now) fairly civil. Counting my blessings.
Keep up the fight. People like me need the encouragement.
Glad you read it pain18, we all suffer, it's just how we manage it that matters in the end.
I'm going back to last month to think about the things I did that worked - do what works, right? My list:
- calling it an affair: she hates it, but she responds and comes back after
- turning down invitations b/c she is in relationship w/ someone else - she tries harder and talks R after
- not being there to help her like a H would be- she gets mad but then continues to come back or text/call (even if it
is 3-4 days later); she initiated R talk after this
- short answers, nonspecific on where I am and when I'll be doing things
- calling her lies and games what they are, pointing out her hypocrisy, noting that she's looking for magic/easy way
out
- not answering most calls AKA giving in and doing everything she wants me to
- not planning things around her
And just to make everyone puke a little more, I guess I forgot that she called me the OM's name a couple of times in late July/early August when we were "trying". She crapped her pants both times and texted apologies, I walked away immediately.
My sister told me I'm being a puss and avoiding - I'm not even mad about it! (she reads my thread) - but I haven't tried talking to WW since she ran off 1.5 weeks ago. She was talking about the hard things, like selling our nice car, and having tough convos with WW.
I'm thinking about what Nicole said: making decisions to bring some justice and stop letting her take advantage of me. Not sure what to do there other than some of the stuff I listed above that "works". Probably not going to engage her much if she does come home while I'm there, but if she persists I will be completely honest.
Neffer is giving me the same advice in 2 posts, which means I'm not listening very well. So I'm trying now to listen to that advice and detach further.
Thanks to everyone who continues to help me here.
Oh and today she finally contacted me w/ a text message, saying both car washes payments are on her credit card. Implying that I should be paying for them. Well she pays her CC on my check and is hiding her cash (she works under the table). I should tell her to "get lost".
Then she tells me she got a new TV streaming subscription and what the login and password is. W. T. F.
I'm not responding.
Over
Good for you
Your w calling you the name of OM wow that did make me puke
Sorry dude that just *****
I like your approach to keep doing what is working and writing those things down to remind yourself
Your w wants OM and you at the same time
You are making it clear that both is not an option
Be strong and take care of yourself
This is the hardest thing we never wanted to go through
Wanna get some opinions here on our vehicle situation. We have 3 cars.
1 nice/decent car: mine, paid off since before marriage
1 decent truck: W's, paid off since before marriage
1 really nice vehicle, bought after marriage with $1000/MO payment
W drives the really nice vehicle. Last month I decided to start driving it bc W isn't contributing financially to the accounts paying for it. Not only that she still spent some of my money that was accidentally deposited there by work ($1600 to pay her credit cards).
I have been waiting for a week and a half for her to come home so I could do this but I'm tired of waiting. I also don't think she should drive my car bc she's having an affair plus she always gets it nasty, tree sap on it, dirty.
Should I swap her out for her vehicle? Should I do it while she's at work or OM's apt. OMs apt is too weird.
Also, if anyone has anything to add in response to my last post I would love that too.
Thanks.
Ovrrnbw, I'm not sure about any legal considerations but if you're both owners of the nice car then I don't see why you couldn't take it and drive it yourself. Does it have to happen secretly or so soon though? It seems eventually your wife will come home and you could claim the car in your own driveway. Or you could text your wife and ask her to bring the car back so you can drive it and if she says no, you could either tell her to start paying for it herself or you'll sell it. If it's leased that might be a different story. I know your wife is acting crazy but the first option seems to be to get the car in a collaborative manner. If that doesn't work then you could take more extreme measures. I'm not sure how others will look at it but I agree it's time to take steps towards stopping her from taking advantage of you.
I don't know enough to comment about the car wash issue. It sounds like you pay most of the bills. Some states don't allow for legal separations but if yours does you could try to file for a legal separation to get everything in order. Or you can just stop allowing her to take from your salary by removing her from your accounts or checkbook. That probably won't go over very well. I imagine she'll lie and do things to stop you. That's why a legal separation would carry more weight but unfortunately it's not an option everywhere.
I hope you do something. That is really unfair for your wife to be running around with another man and yet living from you financially. Perhaps she'll be forced to make better decisions if there's financial pressure, or she'll just ask the OM to help out. I have no idea because I don't know enough details except that it sounds like you're doing the right thing.
A 3rd car at 1000K/month! OK, so I see you guys have some money.
My advice, sell it. Sell it and split the difference. Don't make anymore huge purchases until divorce. I didn't see if you guys actually filed.
She wants to be in an A? Time to split those finances as if you are divorced!
I'm not real happy right now. Just had another convo with WW where I get blamed for everything. I should have skipped softball for her when we were "trying". I shouldn't have treated her so bad leading up to BD and that's why we're here. It's not an affair and other details that probably aren't significant.
I know I need to detach. She is right that we are here b/c of me treating her like crap though. If I was a decent, better person this relationship would have been stronger. Not that I can change anything in the past.
he is right that we are here b/c of me treating her like crap though. If I was a decent, better person this relationship would have been stronger. Not that I can change anything in the past.
You don't know this for sure. You might have been a perfect H and still ended up here. Also, there is usually a ying for yang. Was your treating her like crap a symptom of something else wrong in the relationship? Something she had some control over?
It is like my sitch. Yes I had shut down, and turned into a critical, verbally abusive, curmudgeon. But why? I didn't just wake up one day and say "I think I'm going to start treating W like crap!"
There were other issues in the MR that got me to that point. SSM. The resentment and anger that it resulted in. The trying to discuss it with her over the years and her making excuses, or blaming me, or trying to justify it as normal. On and on. That finally led, over time, to where we ended up.
WASs, and especially WAWs/WWs will always justify their actions by playing the innocent victim card. Rarely is that true. It might not be completely false either, but rarely is it the whole truth. And it takes two to tango, so even if some of what she says is true, likely she has a lot of culpability in it too.
Ovr, all of us want to do this, blame ourselves, take the guilt and think of the woulda shoulda scenarios. What you need now if self care and time away from her. Why are you giving her chances of taking any more digs at you? Steve is right, she is playing the victim card right now. Can you not validate where it is valid and cut the poison convos out? Next she will say you drove her straight into OMs arms, what then?
So the poison convos, how do I avoid them? (Thinking out loud)
Arsh, how do you suggest not giving her the chance to dig at me? Just avoiding convos or not state my opinion?
She is deeply entrenched in her lies. Says her parents, sister, and 2 friends all say it's not an affair. I asked for clarification and she only says I was mean and emotionally abusive to her. I guess marriage to her just means you snap your fingers and it's over - in which case I don't think I care if I'm not married to you. And, according to her family's messed up thoughts, she must have cheated on her BF with her husband (totally not screwed up). She loves the we need to sell the house first excuse, but I haven't heard that one in a while.
I am always thinking about blowing this up, telling the OM everything, his parents her parents, the whole world and just saying screw it. It's amazing WW can treat me this way and still say she loves me.
Last Friday we got a $1,000 check from the mortgage company we just refi'd with. WW forged my signature on it and deposited in the joint account (I have a separate account). I asked her about the forgery yesterday and if that's really a good idea given the situation.
Her response was that it "wasn't for that reason". That's the I'm telling myself lies to feel better response (IMO).
It would be great if I didn't give a you-know-what.
Thurs night to Friday morning completely just ruined my mood. I would have been better off saying nothing. I was pulling out of the garage and she shuts the door several times to prevent me from leaving. Wants me to come inside to talk. Well the talk was all the same old same old. Throughout our talk I asked her why she would tell me she loves me, ask about putting our rings back on, go to counseling, call/text all the time, pretend we were "normal" just to throw me away without saying a peep of her intentions. She said she still "has love for me". I got emotional a couple of times. It's dumb that I did anything more than robot listen and validate, and gave her the satisfaction of realizing I still care. She brought up the fact that I moved my money out of the account.
I need to go back to my "do what works" list and stick to that.
I keep wanting to log all of these details of "how she is wrong". Maybe I need to worry about myself.
GAL this weekend:
- coffee out back. There's been fawn deer running around a lot and I have a ton fresh coffees.
- shooting
- building a grill table for a new grill
- some volunteer work?
- couple of walmart deals from brickseek.com (dunno if anyone here watches that)
Anyways, you guys are a great group, I don't know where I'd be without the support here.
Went out solo last night. Had 4 women approach me and talked with them. Two of them were babes. One knew my brother's gf and mistook me for him. After proving her wrong [ my favorite thing to do of course
] she took a picture of us together and texted it to herself. Had some physical contact in the bar and ooohh ooh that was nice to see a normal, warm human (not kissing or groping). Made a new guy friend while I was out. Pretty awesome night all in all.
I feel kinda excited to be talking to these women, and it makes me feel better about my situation.
WW called this afternoon and I didn't answer or call back. What's the point? She needs to come home, stay home, and work on the MR before I need to talk to her about anything and everything.
I did look at the car app and knew it was dumb before doing it. Just causes pain when I need to be finding my own happiness. Tomorrow I will make the right choice.
And holy cow Steve had this post in someone's thread about always doing the right thing. That was a powerful thing to read.
Holy cow WW is stressing me out. I did answer or return her call yesterday. DIdn't answer or return 3 calls this morning. WW texts that she "needs" to talk really quick. Yea I didn't respond. Then she texts that I "need to answer" and that I "have 5 min". Then she didn't call. Still didn't respond. But jesus I am feeling super "stressed" for lack of a better word.
My sister says to tell her not to talk to me that way and that she can talk to me at home and my mom says just to put your own needs before hers. What do y'all think?
And she tried logging into my Instagram again (happens about once per week usually).
Now she's threatening to shut my phone off since I won't respond. Says she pays for it. Yea, that's why you're hiding money.
Good job
She will not like it
If she thinks you dumped her
She doesn't like it at all apparently. WW called my cell twice this morning, then my office twice. I picked up and hung up twice, but should have let my secretary answer and tell her I'm not available.
What a psycho.
And she just expects me to be there for her 9-5 to listen to whatever she says and then she goes back to OM's apt. H@ll no.
New Thread:
My WAS - looking help and thanks in advance PART 4