I wish I came across this board sooner. I relate to a lot of you and wow is it nice to feel like I'm not so alone. I have made a lot of mistakes but am going to embrace the LRT and got the DB book. We see each other every day or two because my work schedule is difficult and we share our daughter. I am going over there later today to work on a mortgage application for myself and rental application for W. My W has strong anxiety but really only when I talk about our relationship. She blames me for everything but therapists have told us a lot of issues stem from our childhoods with her- a toxic mom and abandonment from dad. I have done a lot of therapy gotten more spiritual, meditate, started doing yoga etc. She has guilt because she left and doesn't want the R as more than friends at this point even though I'm a great dad and 10x the man I was while we were together. She has walls up, other day I mentioned not sure about wanting the couch we used to have sex on a lot and she looked like she was going to freak out or have a panic attack. I cant make her work on herself or her anxiety I tried for months. She seems ok with divorce but underneath I know she wishes she had feelings for me and we could get back toghether. She loved me so much and was such a great W, until she left (she's a gemini and I see her other side now - angel and a devil thing). We have been getting along a lot better, recently, because I stopped pushing the relationship for the most part (sometimes I still slip up). I'm going to put my questions here and details below (there's a lot), hoping I can get some advice. She doesnt work we have an almost 4 year old daughter. We have been Separated for a year we have both had other partners but are not currently dating. She says it has nothing to do with us just that she doesnt have time and needs to heal and work on herself. I agreed to get W a rental property, she is living in a bad situation at her parents house. Mother in law is toxic for W.
- Should I pay for her rental? Already agreed to this so can't take it back. She is trying to get back to work starting her own business but she's not putting much time into it. She has our daughter a little more than half the time because I work weird hours. So work is hard for her. Our expensive "forever" home sold in 3 days and closes June 28, I bought a condo 30 min away in a bigger town where I make most of my income (will turn it into a rental if we R). I felt like I had to accept we were done, we couldn't get along. Then of course, we started getting along and all the feelings rushed back tenfold.
- Should I separate our finances? Checking account and CC all still together. She spends hardly any money and is pretty respectful these days (was not early in S but $ never the issue), I've spent more $ (much on mental health working on myself but some on dating months ago while she was basically in a relationship w a rebound first then OM second). I feel like separating finances now will push her away for sure because she is starting to trust that I'm there for her. But I don't want to just be a safety net.
- Do I tell her if she starts a new R I want to do mediation and have a settlement agreement & split everything? I know I will feel like I have to move on if she dates OM again or someone new. I tried to say we have to communicate and spend some time together because I don't want to resent her as I have a $1400 monthly payment for her housing. It was via text maybe in person goes better. But she says she has nothing to say and what she says just hurts me. She says she has nothing to give at this point and feels the same as she has. She just wants to be friends that trust each other she says (but I don't believe it). A week ago we had two huge long hugs one morning over breakfast (wish I could go back to that moment when she looked in my eyes and kiss her). A month ago she told me she is wanting to hug me more... but I dont just want freaking hugs! I dont want to be just a friend! I want the R but an improved one, Im a sexual person and attracted to my W more than any woman.
- I understand friends first and trust needs to be rebuilt but I dont want to be stuck in the "Friend zone" I want to get the respect and strong attraction she had for 8 years back. How? I was selfish and didn't give enough to her in the M. I've looked in the mirror, seen my mistakes, accepted my imperfections and want to treat her right. So now I'm giving, nice kind. I want to be sexy, strong, attractive - how I was in the R but trying to blend both. Tough!
- Finances are going to be tight for a bit but I will make a bunch of money this summer. I have agreed she needs her own space, she says she wants to be alone and work on herself. But she goes out with a girlfriend or 2 weekly she used to go out with OM for dinners. How do I get her to want to go out and do things just the 2 of us? It's always family time with our daughter. I want her to want to do things together and reconnect? I guess just pull away and wait and see if she comes to me?
- Detachment is really hard for me. We have this strong emotional connection and affect each other so much. I'm not dating and she wouldn't want to hear about it if I was. I don't want to hear about her with OM. If she brings him up again I am going to tell her I'm her H not her gay friend and I don't want to hear about him (saw this in another post).
In the M I was selfish, neglectful after we M. I traveled for work and had fun through my career. She was stuck at home and waited for years for me to give back to her. I got depressed at times mostly in the winter (some childhood traumas I had never worked on until S). I didnt accept I had mental health issues from my childhood I needed to work on. I was like a dark cloud all the time later in the M (her words). I smoked marijuana and hid from the issues thinking marriage was forever and she'd never leave me no matter what. Boy was I wrong. I'd do anything to go back to winter 2017 and work on myself then. She tried to tell me she was falling out of love with me. She tried to get me to do therapy and journal etc, things I'm doing now. But I didn't embrace change until after the S. I've done the work now, therapy, reading, writing, meditating etc. I'm excited in some ways for my future since I know myself now. But I want W side by side excited together. I know I could be a great husband now and more than anything I want to date W again and R. Have more children and experience life together with her and our D (who is so freaking cute I love her with all my heart). I miss my D all the time I dont have her I feel like a failure for not being able to have her in my house daily and provide for her and W.
After S, I made a lot of mistakes as most do I think. I was angry she left and had an ego (former pro athlete, fit, successful etc I worked hard to get where I am and she left and we were going to lose so much). I built my career and was too focused on money. She supported me every step of the way and I probably couldn't have done it without her, at least it would of been a lot harder. I thought shed come back - I tried to give her everything she always wanted except for what she asked for - space. We have the American dream a big expensive house, beautiful daughter I have a good reputation in the community, she didn't work. But here we are a year later we have both dated, gotten pretty serious at times too... but both stopped seeing other people a couple months ago. We tried marriage counseling a couple weeks ago and she just cried, she gave it a 5% chance that she'd want to work on the marriage. I tried to accept it. Our house is sold, June 28 settlement, I have a condo I'm purchasing.
Now we are seeing each other often, with D, we are laughing more and getting along in person. Text we do not do as well. I want time just the two of us.
Any advice is greatly appreciated, may get a coach too, but concerned about finances with new expense for her housing.
How can I bust the divorce and have the loving relationship and partnership W and I want. Patience... right? Thank you for your time DB community!!
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
I hope I can get some advice from more experienced members of the forum. I am going to be interacting with my W later today, 3pm ET and filling out a rental app for her to get her own place. I guess in the scheme of things 15k isn't the end of the world (fortunately for us). Just want to get to piecing and working together even if we live separate I could see myself in the rental with her while I rent my home I'm buying... wishful thinking...
Thank you!
Okay, so, no you shouldn't pay for a rental for her. And yes you should split finances. She needs to know what it will be like to be on her own! Also, likely this will prolong the limbo and separation. WAWs will cake eat if you let them. Having you pay for her place and fund her living expenses will be just that. Also this is unhealthy for you. You need to look up Nice Guy Syndrome, and get the book No More Mr. Nice Guy. Likely you are wanting to do all of this for her because you think it will net you gains it won't.
Think about this. She lives with parents now. I am sure she isn't crazy about that! Her alternative right now should be to return to the marital home. You are giving her another option, one that is VERY desirable. Living in a rental, paid for for her, and then helping her with living expenses to boot?? Come on.
On your mediation question, do you want a D? That is where mediation will lead to. I know the thought of her being with someone else hurts, but that shouldn't be your focus. DBing should be. Even if she starts seeing someone I would stay the course until YOU are ready for D. Not until. You are still way too focused on her letting her actions dictate your decisions. Stop that, and think about what YOU want. Stop putting her needs ahead of yours. (Again, Nice Guy syndrome.)
Plus I notice you are asking if you should tell her. Like you are still trying to control her. "If you start seeing someone I am cutting you off!" There is no problem with moving forward with D and cutting her off, but don't threaten her with it to try to get a behavior out of her. Further, telling her that means she would just go underground with any potential relationship for as long as she could.
How do I get her to want to go out and do things just the 2 of us? It's always family time with our daughter. I want her to want to do things together and reconnect? I guess just pull away and wait and see if she comes to me?
The answer is that you don't. She will go out just the 2 of you WHEN and IF she wants to. The best chance for that is for you to detach, GAL, continue your 180s (changing things about yourself that contributed to her leaving) and being the best possible person you can be! Again, you have to realize that you cannot control her. You have control over exactly one person in this life: YOU.
So let go. Detach. Stop making excuses about why that is hard and work on it hard. Read DB and DR, and all of cadet's links. The problem that LBS have in the beginning is thinking DB won't work. But if you look at the stories of people that R usually they are the ones that DB'd the best!
Buckle in, this is a long ride. I can already detect a lot of impatience on your side. That will work against you. Slow and steady wins this race, no matter how it ends up.
Just keep POSTING (on this thread) and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Got DB already halfway through the book. DR and no more Mr nice guy on the way. I am supposed to do a rental app with her this afternoon.
If I pull that out from her all trust Ive gained back is gone and she will Ben crushed. She has no income and stopped working 2 years ago to raise our daughter.
Splitting finances would mean she gets monthly pay if we D she gets approximately 40 per cent. Which would be around 3k. Maybe I offer 2k which covers rental on her own? Thoughts? House sale June 28 we split 90k profit also... so she can use some of that money. She definitely wants to cake walk have her cake and eat it too and throws a fit if I call her out or criticize. But I will not get taken advantage of... thins is why I wanted mediation. Your advice is much better since I dont want D at all.
Im going to focus on DB and LRT as that will be what potentially is best for R and for myself. Putting me first... she says all I care about is my agenda. Youre right Im too concerned about her actions. II did push for us to be together for months but stopped more recently. Understanding shes thought of me as the guy I was in the M. And I needed to show through action the changes I made. Which is what Ive been trying to do.
Offer her 2k per month. Let go , split finances. Detach. DB to best of my ability starting now. Seeing her and daughter consistently together. Just play with daughter and short but sweet to W. Thank you!
Her birthday is June 12.
Thank you for your time & advice, I'm really happy to have found this resource!
WOW birthday is June 12. A plant or two for her room (she loves nature) and a meal? Just a card? Nothing? We have been getting along better... dont want to be mr nice guy / friend zone.
She keeps offering me meals and food (one of her love languages)... I have been reaching out less and she texts more. She has never had a rock (person she can count on unconditionally) even her parents. See previous post.
DId rental application with WOW. She wrote me as husband and told the landlord Id be there part time with her. Maybe I will Be after some time. I didnt talk about myself at all. Brought up Gemini season her sign (both interested in astrology) got a laugh made eye contact while talking about her place and any other brief convo. I did tell her she was pretty... during convo. I guess thats a mistake should of held back. At least I didn t say youre gorgeous let me push you into the wall lock eyes with you and kiss you with passion, right? Progress?
Daughter wanted to come sleep over at my house and would only potty train with me. Breaks my heart. Ill have her the next two nights since Im off friends all at ge beach for Memorial Day. Hate that were missing memories and experiences. Asked to have daughter tonight but W said Id have her next two nights and I was there until 7. I did say bye first.
Kept it together was positive around W. Getting easier to leave them still sad but used to cry tear up. Heading to the gym. Not going to text her until she reaches out. This stuff is hard. But Im up for it. Focusing on forgiving myself for mistakes in M and detaching not pursuing. Journaling Reading. Moving work.
Just have to be consistent.
When WOW asks did you go out last night? Is there any response that helps?
She get gets jealous and subconsciously comes toward me when I stop pursuing. In the past I have jumped at the chance when she starts coming back. Haven't pursued or reached out / said much for a few days now since reading DB and joining the forum.
I want to get the respect and attraction back... but she knows I'd like to go out and do things together, hope to R. I just said I was up late reading. Have been short on words, looking good when she is around laughing a lot with daughter.
i have been reading no more me nice guy. I was the nice guy in many ways. I have been way too accommodating inviting for coffee breakfast etc. no wonder no respect attraction. The big one is helping her get her rental property. Recommended by therapist. She is in a toxic living situation with a mom with undiagnosed mental illness.
If we D she would get as much as 40 per cent... she has said shed wanted the D since she left in June. But I have been way too nice and trying to get along. We used to just fight while I was pursuing. I actually tried to schedule mediation a couple weeks ago so I dont get taken advantage of. She said I should pay her living expenses for a year. $3500/mo. I said no way mediation and offered $1500-2000. Since I said I have the money she needs her own place and agreed to get her a place. She has no income and stopped working to raise our daughter.
We have been getting along Ive stopped pursuing embracing DB but its hard as F. Texting one word trying not to care if shes out w a gf or sleeping w some guy and lying to me. She says shes not dating. She asks me what I did last night I should just say hung out w friends? And repeat that answer? She has no need to no unless she is interested in our R / M?
Looking for advice on how to communicate and reconnect while also not being too nice and dont want to be a jerk. She is very sensitive and I think has issues from her childhood. Ive tried to help her for months but gave up as I can only control myself. Need to get balls back be an alpha male etc.
Thanks for advice really could use it.
Cadet could you change this thread to: Letter to my WOW- Thoughts?
Post:
I have been way too accommodating since the separation and an enabler. No wonder you think of me as a friend and dont act respectul or attracted. I am taking my balls back. I believe a separation was justified and in the best interest of both of us, and Ariel, it definitely woke me up. Im a great dad and a much better man than I was. Thank you for that. I believe we are very compatible and we would both be lucky to have a second chance at a relationship and a new marriage. I have made mistakes since the separation and so have you. I accept what has happened. I forgive you for what has happened since June and I forgive myself for my mistakes during our marriage. I respect all aspects of myself strengths and weaknesses, something I definitely could not have said a year ago. I know you may be having a hard time or be scared or lonely, anxious etc. And I have asked you for emotional support over the past months. But, I will not be a plan B or safety net anymore. I can not emotionally support you and we can not be so attached if we are not working on our relationship. We can of course be that support for each other in every way if we choose to work on our relationship. I can be financial support short term as I have promised. I can not control you and I am not trying to. Since I do not want to get divorced at this time and hope to get to a place where we are working together on our relationship I will offer the following.
We are going to split our finances now or asap. I will give you $1000 mo and once you get your place it will be $1000 plus rent (Also I am paying, health insurance and life insurance for you which is about $200). If there are expenses for Ariel that come up we can discuss. Ideally your rental coincides with our house sale and getting $45,000 each in profit and if you need more than that for utilities etc you can use a little bit of your own money (I am not asking you to use all this money as your savings for potential separate lives). I stand by my word of paying for your place. This means you give me all the credit cards and do not put any money on the cards amazon automatic payments etc. I understand this may not be as much money as you want. But its the most I can afford and I honestly cant afford it long term. If I am paying you $2300 per month plus my $1800 housing that is $4100 mo going up from current housing expense of $2700 which was almost too much at Sharp. To afford that ($4100) I would need to earn $12,300 per month which unfortunately I do not.
You need see what its like to be on your own. You left me (no blame just fact) and you will not you have your cake (me / family time) and eat it too anymore. If you want our family that includes me as your man: romantically, passionately, emotionally, sexually and intimately. It would be very different than our previous relationship and if you choose to pursue us, that is up to you when youre ready to make that decision.
I understand what its like in your living environment between you and your mom. Im sorry youve been stuck there for a year. Even though its beautiful the material stuff like the land or house arent what control happiness. Ive learned a ridiculous amount since we ve separated. And recognize so many mistakes from our and my past. If you want to talk about it at some point you can ask, not our previous relationship but what weve learned from it and the future. I dont want to talk about past mistakes I want to talk about future solutions. I dont want to get divorced. I want you to be happy and be able to work on yourself. So I hope you accept my offer. The only way we will reconcile is if we both are strong, stable, healthy and happy individually. Thats when we could potentially have a good marriage and relationship with each other or someone else.
I recognize the codependent relationship we had in our marriage and why it was toxic. We are both at fault in very different ways. I am not a finished product. I am going to continue working on myself and that is where my focus is. Working on myself and being the best dad for Ariel. I believe I have been behaving in a way that is called mr nice guy syndrome. I have issues just like every other human, I am working on myself. I have things I am going to be working on improving changing and that is my focus.
One other note. I do not want to hear anything about you and another man. I am not your gay friend and never will be. I am your husband. You will respect me whether you come back to me or not. If you want to divorce or try to piece together our marriage and potentially reconcile get remarried that is your decision. I have no control over you and hopefully you understand with the financial support you dont feel controlled. I hope this doesnt upset and instead allows you to feel free to have space, time, the ability to feel and make your decisions. I will try to be patient and work on myself and I will always be there for Ariel. Remember to smile, no matter what happens Im thankful, were lucky and we have an amazing daughter, shes incredible because shes half of each of us.
Your husband
First of all STOP using contractions with the apostrophe and your posts will stop disappearing.
Read the disappearing posts thread.
Second - DO NOT SEND the above letter to your wife.
I changed the title to it and the remainder of this thread.
Yea holy cow do not send that letter to your spouse.
Ok no letter, what a waste of time... Thank you. I was ready to give up a week or two ago and was pushing for mediation. I had been trying to do it alone and I'm seeing that I have made a ton of mistakes. Then came across this forum and read DB, starting No More Mr Nice guy and DR.
Just now she texts me I hope you guys had a nice day. And sleep well. We normally exchange texts like this. I had our daughter for the weekend. I haven't been texting nearly as much, mostly one word answers. I just said thanks you too.
I told her I could be the strong one a rock she could count on. I told her I would get her a rental. Should I push for splitting finances and let her feel how it would be for her to live on her own? Should I allow her to continue having our cc and checking account? She spends almost no money.
I work late 4-5 days per week so visit at her parents where she's living to see my 3 year old daughter regularly. I try to see her every day if possible or every other day. W and I don't talk much but are around each other a lot. Is this too much interaction?
We have done meals together as a family occasionally. We usually meet at the YMCA and walk our daughter in to school together then weightlift at the gym during that hour we are both fit... cut all that?
Searching for ways to get her respect and attraction back. I will just focus on pulling back rather than communicating.
Is there any way to contact Sandy2? Thank you all for your time. Back to reading.
Jesus Christ, dude... will you marry me? The amount of money you are giving her each month is more than I make in a month. Did you forget that she was the one that wanted to leave you? You said you were not going to be her Plan B, but how are you not when you are completely funding her getaway? Do not be her doormat. And to put it bluntly.... get your balls back from her...
I dont mind blunt. No need to apologize.
What am I supposed to do? I can get her rental and she can keep cc and bank account. She spends like no money. Or I can start divorce process to protect myself even though its not whats I want. If we D she get a half of everything and 40 percent of income in PA thats the average. SHe left a year ago. We were talking about Divorce settlements a few weeks ago and she asked for 3500 per month. I said thats too much and contacted a mediator. Mediator recommended therapist. We saw therapist W cried half the time cant talk about the relationship. Said she needs time to heal and cant do that in current living situation. Ive tried to just give time but she thinks Im controlling stuck in her parents house etc.
I was pushing for mediation and trying to accept everything before getting on this board and working DB. Now were barely talking which is ok I guess. I want R not D but seems like a lost cause. I know I have a bright future ahead. I can make more money. Im sure what Im doing isnt the best for me but I want her happy and healthy and then chance to R. She has nevertheless had someone she can count on even her parents. I cant see a better option. Help? Thanks
I want her happy and healthy and then chance to R.
She has to do that on her own without your help or comment.
You work on being quiet with your lips zipped, making yourself into a person only a fool would leave.
Thanks Cadet. Ive said a lot on this forum but almost nothing to W. She invited me over for pancakes just now. Heading over. Will be calm cool quiet attractive focus on our daughter. Wish me luck
Cadet is right. That is her journey. Not yours.
That said, if you dont want a D then do not file. Certainly do not do it for her.
What am I supposed to do? I can get her rental and she can keep cc and bank account. She spends like no money. Or I can start divorce process to protect myself even though its not whats I want. ? Thanks
You're forgetting the third option. Separate finances and let her go off and do her thing without help from you. If she wants a D and you don't, let her do all the work towards that. But you need to understand that you can't buy her love. She can find her own place and pay her own rent. Welcome to the real world, W. In the beginning, we all think we can give our W's what they want and show them how nice and great we are and they'll change their mind and come back. It won't work. You can't nice her back.
Im sure what Im doing isnt the best for me but I want her happy and healthy and then chance to R. She has nevertheless had someone she can count on even her parents. I cant see a better option.
You're right. It's not the best for you. And it's not the best for your chance to R either. You need to understand that she doesn't want to count on you right now. If she did, she would come back and want to work on things, but it doesn't seem like that is what she wants. She does want your financial support though, just not you with it. You need to show her what life is like without you. The reality of what she thinks she wants. Like they say, let her go, work on yourself, and become a person only a fool would leave...
Separate finances and let her go off on her own. Ok but how? She stopped working to raise our daughter and has no income. She is starting to get her soil science business going which is what her degree is in.
Just give her a check for a lump some and say here give me all the cc. Or monthly 2k or whatever. All she has is ours.
I want to fair and not a jerk. I was a selfish bad husband and have done 180s for sure. she gave everything in the M and at this point she has nothing to give me and just gets anxious when Im close to her. I want to get her respect back and she needs to heal on her own.
I think I give her 2-3k and say go get a cc. We get 45k from our house sale end of June. She Says she gave 5 years of her life and supported me building a successful business which is true. Money honestly doesnt mean that much to me at this point. I want respect attraction relationship family. Just want to do what is fair and will get wow to respect me. Sorry for typos out of pocket here.
Thank you
I am going to contact my attorney to try to figure out what I should do in regard to separate finances. She stopped working to raise our daughter 2-3 years ago. Everything she has financially is ours. So Im not sure what should be done to split everything. I want to do whats best for me and whats best for our chance to reconcile.
- Monthly pay, heres a check give me the ccs and debit cards...
- Lump some I cant really afford that much right now. We are each getting 45k profit from our house sale at the end of june. We got this big expensive house 1.5 years ago, objects dont buy happiness. Thats for sure. She has said she gave me 8 years where she helped renovate rentals, flip houses, supported me as I built a successful business etc. Which is true she is or was a hard worker and good wife. A good portion of the profit on my end is going to a down payment on my new place. She is applying for rentals and I have applied with her saying I may be there part time which is wishful thinking on my part I guess.
This morning she invited me and our daughter over pancakes. I accepted. Should I avoid situations like this or accept invitations for family time? I should not have said anything about the relationship. I didnt say too much but did talk at the end, as she was discussing furniture plans and looking at couches. I asked what she wanted to do in regard to us as we have been getting along. She said I dont know but we have to do something. Whatever the hell that means. She said shes strong enough to talk today. Her strength lasted about two minutes. She is broken at least aroudn me and gets anxious, hides depression, really bad anxiety related to me and our relationship.
Just talking about it makes me want to give up. Has anyone ever seen R when things have gotten to this point. Its been a year and both of us have had relationships with OP. She still texts with one guy she says they dont see eachother because neither of them have time. But it doesnt even matter at this point unless she decides to pursue us. It hurts anyway but who cares. She has said working on us is not an option for her she doesnt want to do anything like get dinner and drinks or even coffee or a walk but she wants to do those things with others or by herself.
No reason to talk to her about it anymore. Ill figure out how to separate finances, continue reading DB, DR, Mr Nice Guy. 180s GAL, be the guy shed be a fool to leave. Focus on detaching. Thanks for the support. Everything in my life is great except this and it overwhelms everything. Have to focus on everything else.
First of all STOP using contractions with the apostrophe and your posts will stop disappearing.
Read the disappearing posts thread.
REPEAT
Can you explain why or how the first breakup came? When did the OM come into the picture?
Had there ever been any inappropriate behavior between her and other guys? What about you and other women? I don't mean after the separation, but during your M history.
Sorry Cadet. My phone does them automatically. I will stop.
Sandi so glad to hear from you. I just tried to tell my W we were separating finances. Trying to get my balls back. Get attraction and respect back is what I really want. No matter what I do except barely contact and act like a nice guy friend things hit the fan. She blew up thinks Im trying to control her when Im really trying to not have her relying on me and let her feel what its like to be on her own. Should of done this sooner now we are a year in. Offered her 2300 per month since I had promised to help her get a rental. She stopped working to raise our daughter. And didnt make that much money, she supported me in my business and flipping houses etc. She acts like thats not enough and resorts to threatening divorce. I said Im not scared of divorce and she can make that happen if she wants. She is very smart and always used to win arguments between us. I would back down to keep the peace. I cant do that anymore.
June 2017 she asked for space. I gave her everything but space. ILYBNILWY as I made all the mistakes anger, cried, letters, became best friends with a guy who owned an animal sanctuary she loved so she could be there all the time... (WTF). 2-3 months she saw on my phone a 23 year old girl messaging me- before I had been with any OW. She says I took the first swing but I think she was with OM first. OM REBOUND guy her Ex from HS who she blocked when we first started dating. He was a loser but I know she was doing all types of sexual things with him. I had such bad anxiety and was jealous. Naked pictures of her full frontal sexting. I spied it was really bad. Things got as serious as possible with him then she left him and came back to me. Was humbled and acted like she wanted us back. But it lasted a week max then she had really bad anxiety again.
Never anything inappropriate in the marriage. I moved out of the bedroom she offered me to sleep in guest room when our daughter was young (cosleeping) so I could sleep. I had issues with mental health and seasonal depression. Ive done a lot of therapy and made solid 180s. I think I fall into the nice guy category at times and did a lot of the things in no more mr nice guy book.
OM she dated next was a better person but unavailable. Works a lot and has a 12 year old daughter, hes 8 years older than us. She initially said he was a lot like me but had been through this and was more mature.
She had told me she was falling out of love with me January 2016 before but I didnt take her seriously. She made up her mind to leave that winter. I made a lot of mistakes in the marriage and prioritized building a business and playing pro lacrosse over the M. My W has a lot of issues and they only show up when we get into it. She holds it together well. I tried to help her but now just trying to pull away and be separate continue my GAL and 180s. I see a spritual healer as a mentor and am pursuing a future career along with running a business and being a great dad.
Thank you so much I really need someone to talk to other than her about my situation.
Sent this to an attorney we were going to use for mediation, copied W:
I hope all is well. Kelly and I were married for 5 years and have been separated almost a year. I am wondering if you can help with separating our finances. There are a lot of emotions at play when we talk about splitting money. I don't want to be taken advantage of and we should get something in writing so Kelly feels safe. I hope to reconcile and we have been getting along if we dont talk about relationship, emotional things. I am trying to be patient and focus on things I can control. While I say I want to work towards reconciliation Kelly would likely say different, I made a lot of mistakes in the marriage and both of us have made mistakes since. If she wants the divorce she can get it, I wont stop her. But I hope that we can work things out down the road.
A little background: Kelly stopped working to raise our daughter almost 2 years ago and is hoping to start a business in her field, soil science, she has a good network in the industry. While she gets her business going I have offered her to pay her rent approximately $1300 per month and give her $1000 / mo spending money. I am in the process of purchasing a condo. I also pay life insurance and health insurance and would pay for everything for our almost 4 year old daughter Ariel. I cant afford this long term but figure this may give us some time for her to have her own space and choose her path. We have a good amount of profit we will be splitting when our current home sells June 28th.
Is helping a separated couple separate finances something youve done before? Any advice is appreciated.
I was just trying to determine if she was a WW or WAW. Her dating history after the separation doesn't really matter. I wanted to know what she was like before she asked for space. What were the dynamics in the MR? Who wore the pants? Who controlled the relationship, and how? Who has the stronger personality? Was she spoiled, have an entitlement attitude, manipulative, etc. Who would usually apologize the quickest in order to have peace/resolution? Would she go out without you and stay out at bars or clubing until very late? Did she like to get a little wild with her girlfriends? Was she into chat rooms, or anything along those lines? What were the fights usually about?
You don't have to answer all those questions. It's just to show you some things that would help give me an overview of her before the split.
How did you recognize yourself in the book about NGS? Can you see how it affected your MR?
She is WAW I think. Honestly Im almost ready to give up. It seems like there is no way we will R. She tells me she cares about OM. So if she is telling me that she must really like or love him. He has never made her a priority and doesnt have time for her. She liked me best when I didnt have time for her. I know she has issues from her childhood. It feels like theres nothing I can do. I tried to push splitting finances today and we were fighting via text for hours. I cant stand it. I love her for who she is inside and who she was in the M but she wont show me that side. I miss my daughter terribly every day I dont have her. Maybe I should just file for divorce when we sell our house then maybe she will wake up like hey he really is going to be out of my life. Or maybe I was just meant to learn from my mistakes and move on...
Sandy here are answers... and thank you all for your time and input.
She was a great wife before she left. She gave me everything she had to give and I didnt reciprocate. I did work hard and we had the American Dream big house, beautiful daughter, wife didnt work but we werent happy. I take a lot of blame and have a ton of regret but I am forgiving myself. I didnt know any better at the time.
After we married and had our daughter things changed a bit. Daughter had issues with solid foods and nursed overnight, W was sleep deprived for over a year. We ended up sleeping in separate beds so I could get enough sleep to work and then I would watch daughter in the morning and W would go back to sleep. I hated that but she was having issues with lack of sleep. I should have stood my ground and stayed in the bedroom. W became obsessive with our daughter. Daughter is the most important thing in W life and its not even close. I love my daughter but feel like in a family there needs to be a balance which we never had.
In the MR she controlled a lot. I would try to speak my opinion and she would reason her way to win the argument. Many times she would research heavily online like co-sleeping for example. I am a coach and leader but at home wanted to keep the peace and would back down rather than fight when she had evidence or studies to support her reasoning (NGS).
I definitely apologized quicker. She rarely apologizes and it takes her a lot of time. We never could kiss or make up and make up sex never happened even though I wanted that. She held onto anger or sadness for days and at times hid her tears from me. I didn't know how bad it was she told me she was crying every day and her time of the month was leaving her physically sick towards the end of the MR. She is very sensitive, calls herself an empath that absorbs other peoples energy and in general doesnt like being around a lot of people. She used to always say she didnt like people except me. She loved me so much it was crazy and she was so good to me. I didnt appreciate it and took her for granted.
She never went out without me in the M. Never stayed out late or anything like that. Before we were together she may have been wild but didnt know eachother well then. We were wild together early on in the relationship. Fights were usually my fault during the marriage honestly. I used marijuana to self medicate and hold in my emotions. I hid that from her for periods of time. I wasnt happy a lot of the time and blamed external factors. It wasnt until after she left that I recognized I had a LOT of work to do on myself. And I have and am doing it.
NGS- I repressed my feelings my whole life. I always wanted others to validate me through athletic success. Or sex. I was very physical in my love language and didnt communicate with her or work on the emotional relationship. I dont blame her for leaving but I have made a lot of 180s and other women fall for me then I turn them down and just want to be friends. I want my W and family and have stopped dating for months.
More NGS- I want to different from my father who has issues with depression he never worked on and pushed me very hard into athletics. I used to not admit I had any issues but now am working on myself consistently. I relate to women very well, Im good with men too but I dont have many close guy friends. W was introverted and I lost touch with many old friends.
She was my emotional center, in my marriage vows I literally said she was my heart- we see how that turned out...heartbreak. Still having trouble a year later. I was dishonest, didnt make my needs a priority or even recognize my needs, give to get, I used to be full of rage from holding everything in, difficulty setting boundaries- turning down work and disappointing people was hard for me until separation, I wasnt a good listener, relatively successful but focused on reaching my potential moving forward.
Many of these things changed when she left I did a lot of self reflection. I have done therapy and made major changes in the way I think, feel and communicate. But even just today W says she doesnt care about the changes Ive made what's done is done... and youre being an [censored] today go project your insecurities on someone else. This is when I am offering her $2300 per month to cover her $1300 rental and $1000 spending money plus paying for health insurance and life insurance. Feel like I just have to be done. Maybe I just go black for a while and then Divorce if nothing changes. Im so tired of spending all my energy on our R when she doesnt care or want to work on us and hasnt in a year.
W is nice and kind until I bring up anything about our R or MR... doesn't act like a WW. She was crazy and making terrible decisions 8-9 months ago while in PA. Now she just has anxiety around me. Has this other guy I guess she has EA with she says she cares about him.
Thinking I just contact her as little as possible for a while but that may turn into forever. We texted way too much yesterday after I tried to tell her we were splitting finances. During that convo she said you pushed me away (while in MR) and then tried to push me to be together and she's sick of having to push back.
What I think should work doesnt work at all. Common sense doesnt work or being nice and doing things for her. So I guess I just pull away. All she wants is alone time shes stuck in her parents house with our daughter more than half the time. Gotta get my groove / mojo back handle my responsibilities - moving packing our whole life up as I downsize and split everything up. Hard as F*ck but I have to almost do the opposite of what I want to do... like that one seinfeld episode where George does the opposite and gets a girlfriend and a job at the yankees.
Yes, Did... After reading your last post, it looks like you're starting to get it. As counter-productive and counter-intuitive this all seems, it really does work. But it is hard, Just stay focused and don't let your emotions get in the driver's seat. You've turned a corner and are starting to head in the right direction. Again, STAY FOCUSED. It's so easy to get confused and backtrack in the whole process. I've done it way too many times myself...
Thanks MTB it really helps to have support here. I have made so many mistakes and Im actually really successful in life besides my MR. Not used to screwing up so much. Never learned much about emotional intelligence or relationships until this year. I definitely have backtracked many times like yesterday. Almost every time she comes back to me I screw it up by being too much. I could of had her back 6 months ago if I just chilled out. But my personality of fix it/ make things better / solve the problem impatience won out. Friends / Fam just say move on you're better than her. Even her own mom told me that. But I know if we heal we could have a great life together and our family. Seems like some fantasy with how far apart we are now that Well never get there. She has OM for emotional relationship they text all the time and Im stuck with financial and daughter.
Ideas or questions:
Start picking up my daughter for play dates instead of hanging at her parents where its fake fam time and I have urges to push W. Or act calm and cool and keep my mouth shut and prove I can do the fam thing? She likes hanging when Im chill and dont talk about anything...
Splitting finances: Is it worth the fight and stress on our R? She spends almost 0 money. Im going to pay for her to get a rental... can give her $1000 spending money plus pay for rental (still less than D settlement would be). Or I can pay for rental and let her keep our CC? I cant cut her off she said yesterday: I will never respect you as an indian giver manipulate Fing Ahole like every other toxic relationship in my life (meaning her mom and dad). All because of miscommuncation about splitting finances she thought I was taking away when I was offering $2300 per month. Or divorce. What a mess.
June 12 is her birthday. She said she doesnt want anything. Just a card from daughter... get respect back instead of giving gifts to W who left me? I was thinking a wall art spread your wings and fly (writing this makes me think Im an idiot) or some plants.. maybe just the plants and keep the emotion out of it plus a card from our daughter? Or nothing at all. Hard to trust myself knowing what I now know.
Thank you
Wow, you are still going to support her apart from being in the marital home? NGS to the nth degree. How can she ever face the consequences of her decision if you are still going to support her. ANd forget what she says. She will say whatever she can in order to control you. And it appears to be working.
^^^ What Steve said...
I'm not paying for my W to leave me, and it pisses her off. But that's her new reality now. She won't respect you if you're being a doormat. And she can't love you like you want if she doesn't respect you. She's just saying those things to guilt you into paying for her stuff. As far as time with your daughter goes, I would pick her up and leave. Go out and do awesome things with her. Your wife doesn't want a family, just the perks that go with it. Don't let her be a cake eater...
I told her I would get her a place. She has parents who push her and control her (rich dad offers trailers in his trailer park or houses near him not where we live, mom wont rent her an apt in her multiunit investment property I helped them get). They wont help her get a place and not sure they will even cosign for her. Therapist recommended get her a rental months ago when we were in counseling.
If I take back she will think Im an [censored] just like everyone else in her life. Probably pursue D. I guess whats meant to be will happen. Maybe I should just file. Not what I want but how else can I get respect here.
Not sure what the other options are. She has been at her parents for a year.
As Im typing this attorney emailed me. I guess a separation agreement is the winning option? Tired of getting walked all over. Thanks all.
Thank you for your email, I am happy to help you with this process. We can discuss whether a Separation Agreement would work for your situation and we can also cover any other topics that are important to you. If you would like to meet together in my office for a consultation, please offer a day and time that would work for you both!
Thanks Steve youre probably right. On the control. She calls me manipulative etc and I think she subconsciously projects. More and more Im thinking I may be better off without her. I texted her reply to the attorney and let her know when you can meet.
She sounds as if she is sick to death of you pressuring her. Almost everything from you will feel like emotional pressure to her. You must stop trying to
fix the MR.....b/c she resents it highly. Understand? The more you try to fix the M, the more you press her emotionally.....and that causes her to resist more. So, back off and leave her alone. I don't understand men who chases after a woman who does not love him! Why does he think that will change her mind? It only makes her mad.
But my personality of fix it/ make things better / solve the problem impatience won out.
So fix your personality!
But I know if we heal we could have a great life together and our family.
Why should she believe you? She was unhappy with you. You were unhappy, too. If she is in love with this OM, then she won't be interested in a relationship with you. If things don't work out with him.......then, maybe with enough time you will have another shot. It isn't going to happen if you don't leave her alone.
Start picking up my daughter for play dates instead of hanging at her parents where its fake fam time and I have urges to push W. Or act calm and cool and keep my mouth shut and prove I can do the fam thing? She likes hanging when Im chill and dont talk about anything...
Pick your D up, and leave. Do not hang out at her parents' house! That is so uncool. Yes, act calm and cool. No, don't play happy family with your W. She doesn't want to be a family with you! It doesn't matter if she likes you better when you are chilled. She left you and the M.........so stop hanging around, and stop playing as if you are one happy family. Pick up your D and leave.
Splitting finances: Is it worth the fight and stress on our R?
I think it's a little late for this question, since you've already talked to her about it. Naturally, she will want all she can get. If you pay child support, she should not expect you to support her after she has left the M. That is crazy!
I cant cut her off she said yesterday: I will never respect you as an indian giver manipulate Fing Ahole like every other toxic relationship in my life
Did you tell her you would continue to support her, when you knew she was separating from you?
All because of miscommuncation about splitting finances she thought I was taking away when I was offering $2300 per month. Or divorce. What a mess.
How could you miscommunicate, "You will get $2300 a month"?
June 12 is her birthday. She said she doesnt want anything. Just a card from daughter... get respect back instead of giving gifts to W who left me? I was thinking a wall art spread your wings and fly (writing this makes me think Im an idiot) or some plants
OMG!
Look, you have to stop treating her like you are still together. Although she is still legally your W.......she doesn't want the M, and she doesn't want you. She doesn't want a present from you. So, why would you get her something when she has made it very plain that she doesn't want anything? To me, it looks as if you are not
listening to her, just like you didn't listen when she was in the MR.
Is she saying she just wants a card from her D.......or is this you suggesting you get a card from D to her? (It's really difficult to interpret some places in your postings, but maybe that's just me). My suggestion is to let D3 make a card for her mother. But
you don't get your W a plant or anything. She has another man, for crying out loud.
Issue at hand now is separating finances. Currently she has all cc and joint access to bank account. I want to separate all that and have her on her own accounts. She can grow up and learn how to write a check. Im trying to get respect back.
There is a separation agreement in PA which I mentioned in previous post from attorney. She seems scared of going to lawyer but I feel this protects me since I have everything to lose? She wants to now agree to the $2300 per month that she fought over yesterday. I feel like we need something in writing and attorney protects me. But also feels close to D if things go that way in the meeting. Should I do it anyway and not be scared of the D? Just say I dont want D want separation agreement at the meeting. W is very smart and manipulative without necessarily intending to be, would strongly deny it.
In PA Legal Separation vs. Divorce. A legal separation, is a court order that mandates the rights and duties of a couple while they are still married, but living apart; in a divorce, the spouses are no longer married.
Sandi youre right. Harsh but thats reality and very true. I need to continue to work on myself and listening. I am working on me but Im not a finished product by any means. She says she hasnt seen OM in months and they have no time. That doesnt matter she told me she knows it hurts that she cares about someone else. I wont get her anything I need to listen to her. She doesnt want the M or me at this point. I need to accept it. I will stop pursuing and pressuring completely.
Im good with blunt and harsh. Thank you
She says: We have the agreement from before ($2300 per month). We can do whatever you say. I dont wanna fight.
Then goes on to say I take care of D3 all the time (which is more like 60-70 percent, I work she doesnt and have offered her breaks during the day but I work at night a lot).
Do all the packing (never asked her to do this but I would do it differently than her- she has all this anxiety about everything. Starting packing kitchen stuff and D3 books / toys... Im living here another month. Had to ask her to stop and not leave the place a mess after packing. Like it never even crossed her mind??)
And study when Im overtired (for her test to start business).
Says: Dont act like Im not helpful and supportive.
I want to respond: I appreciate your help. I can do the packing or at least my share and I take care of D3 as much as I can. I also have offered to have D3 during the days, and offered again for that tomorrow. I will pick her up tomorrow around 10am or you can drop her off earlier if you'd like.
I want the settlement agreement to protect myself so it is in writing with the attorney.
Continued advice is appreciated... trying to limit my mistakes. Thank you
Believe nothing she says and only half of what she does.
You really need to read No More Mr. Nice Guy. And you need to stop hanging on her every word and action.
Splitting finances: Is it worth the fight and stress on our R?
I think it's a little late for this question, since you've already talked to her about it. Naturally, she will want all she can get. If you pay child support, she should not expect you to support her after she has left the M. That is crazy!
She literally said I should support her for a year - all of her expenses $3500 per month is the number she came up with when we talked in person. Which is 42k per year and way more than I can afford or would agree to. This is what happened when we tried to talk in person and I tried to accept D even though not what I want. Then I said we'll use an attorney.
Did you tell her you would continue to support her, when you knew she was separating from you?
Yes. If we D would get alimony and child support up to 40% of my income. She has no income and with my work schedule I can not have D3 enough for her to work consistently. Child care would be more expensive than her income.
Steve youre definitely right- I need to not hang on to her words and actions. Shes the same way we still affect each other so much. Trying to detach... I am 50 pages in and will read No More Mr Nice Guy more tonight.
Im just not going to say much to her. I asked her to reply to attorney and if she does that is fine with me.
I told her I never asked her to do all the packing. I have offered to have D3 during the day. And I can have her tomorrow.
Off to work. Thanks for the replies.
Splitting finances: Is it worth the fight and stress on our R?
I think it's a little late for this question, since you've already talked to her about it. Naturally, she will want all she can get. If you pay child support, she should not expect you to support her after she has left the M. That is crazy!
She literally said I should support her for a year - all of her expenses $3500 per month is the number she came up with when we talked in person. Which is 42k per year and way more than I can afford or would agree to. This is what happened when we tried to talk in person and I tried to accept D even though not what I want. Then I said we'll use an attorney.
Did you tell her you would continue to support her, when you knew she was separating from you?
Yes. If we D would get alimony and child support up to 40% of my income. She has no income and with my work schedule I can not have D3 enough for her to work consistently. Child care would be more expensive than her income.
Have you received this information from an attorney? She is living at her parents now, I highly doubt a judge would award her 40% of your pay. Even if custody is less than 50/50, which is what you should be trying for (and using child care to make that happen).
To be honest, it sounds to me like you have already decided you "owe" this to her and are looking at justifications to do it. Talk to a lawyer. Make her work to get what she wants. You are making Ding you so easy. Heck, I wish I could marry you, leave you, and tell you I need $2300/month from you to make it!
I told her I would get her a place. If I take back she will think Im an [censored] just like everyone else in her life. Probably pursue D.
She told you she'd always be there for you. She went back on her word first, which is why you are here, right?
I guess whats meant to be will happen. Maybe I should just file. Not what I want but how else can I get respect here.
Why file if that's not what you want? Then you send mixed messages.
Tired of getting walked all over. Thanks all.
Then don't be her H when she is trying to cake eat, get you to pay for everything, give her the family experience with your kid.
Cadet dont worry about editing that post I will write from computer later
Well here it is anyways
I called attorney and will meet with her myself. W says shes good with what we talked about yesterday even though she freaked out and called me all kinds of names yesterday. Feel like as sad as it is Im moving closer to divorce and giving up on her. Well see what the attorney says.
W has an older brother with autism. Says he needs a job. I could probably find work for him. After arguing w me again today when texts me about that. Maybe I say ask OM. Joking but she acts like were cool and Im supposed to be so kind and caring etc. Ive said things like its your choice not to work on our M and shes loses it. Maybe I just wont respond or say sorry.
Coaching a state playoff game for my Hs program. Ill be back tonight. THanks all.
i have been reading no more me nice guy. I was the nice guy in many ways. I have been way too accommodating inviting for coffee breakfast etc.
You must not have read very far. The point of the book isn't that nice guys are "too nice", it is that a "nice guy" as the term is used in the book is actually a guy that behaves in very passive/ aggressive ways that destroy relationships over time. "Nice guys" only look nice on the outside. Out of the public eye they are controlling, manipulative and selfish.
Sometimes you'll see someone here say you can't "nice them back" which is quite true, but it's equally true that you can't "angry them back". You should strive for a "friendly neighbor" attitude. Read Sandi's rules, the point is to detach and give her time and space but to do it in a loving, understanding manner.
We have been getting along Ive stopped pursuing embracing DB but its hard as F.
Yes it is very hard because it's counter-intuitive. But it's your best chance of saving the M.
She asks me what I did last night I should just say hung out w friends? And repeat that answer? She has no need to no unless she is interested in our R / M?
If she asks then tell her. Don't offer many details unless she asks for specifics. So for example, if you went to a restaurant with two men and 1 woman and she asks what you did, say "went to dinner with some friends". If she asks who was there then tell her. "Bill and Ted, I think you know them. And Julie, I don't think you know her, she's a friend of Ted's." Do you see where I'm going with this? You're creating MYSTERY but you're not lying to her.
Looking for advice on how to communicate and reconnect while also not being too nice and dont want to be a jerk.
When in doubt, read Sandi's rules again. That's your playbook. And forget about trying to "reconnect", right now you're just giving her time and space. Reconnecting will happen on HER timeline, not yours.
Splitting finances: Is it worth the fight and stress on our R?
Do you live in an alimony state? If so then you will have to support her for some length of time since she was a SAHM. She has no income, so the courts will more than likely award her alimony if it's a no-fault alimony state. Keep in mind that courts don't usually factor in whose "fault" it is because it's too difficult to sort out (you say she had an affair, she said it's because you were emotionally absent in the M, etc. etc. it never ends). You said you have a L, so talk to your L about the 2300/mo and find out if that's more or less than the court might order. If it's less than I would say go ahead and pay it. Your W might not push for D if she doesn't need to, but if you're not giving her ANY support then she will probably push it through for financial reasons and then not only will you be D'd but also paying more.
AnotherStander thanks for the informed opinion. Yes I live in an alimony state- PA and no fault / no contest divorce are options. Basically she can get the divorce if she wants it no matter what I do. So I know I will have to support her if we D for at least 1.5 years.
The L I was going to use for mediation when I had been focused on accepting MR was over we just kept fighting. Then after I accepted it we got along for a couple weeks... of course. I will probably do a consultation with her so I'm at least more informed. I did talk to another L months ago for free but just got a basic summary in the end I was told she would get half of everything.
Im unsure if I should of pushed splitting finances so hard a few days ago. Im going to slow play it and talk to the attorney first. Again she spends almost no money so Im not sure if paying her 2300/mo or just rent and cc matters much. Trying to get respect / take balls back but I know Im going to have to pay her as much or more anyway. Separation agreement is a think so Im just going to go in and talk to L.
Thanks again for the reply AS.
I was unpleasantly surprised how much I related to nice guy in the book. I was starring the things I related to.. lets just say there were a lot of stars. I wasnt a great husband and I have more work to do. Im working on me and 180s. I was much worse for years because I didnt know or wouldnt accept I had any issues and blamed outside factors. Thats the past Im embracing who I am, I do forgive myself and regret a lot. There were some tears shed, sleepless nights and anxiety for sure. I have accepted I was selfish and didnt give enough love or communcation. I neglected my W when she was great to me and had some depression and stress related issues. I did destroy the relationship over time.
Trying to work on all those things... its a lot. I still react to much out of emotion and respond without thinking of the power of my words at times.
Detach be loving friendly neighbor seems like a tall task but Im going to try my best. Im moving at the end of the month so we will be about 30 min away from eachother instead of 10. So that will be better in some ways and worse in others.
Picking up D3 tomorrow for the day so I dont have to visit at W parents anymore. She sent me pictures of D tonight I'll just say thanks for the pictures, appreciate it.
Going to stop doing the fam thing. I will take D3 when I have her and not include W. Have read stuff about accepting all offers for fam time but not push for more.
Yes she made vows like every wife and they were heartfelt. She did give me everything. She was physically sick when she left. I think she could of gotten help for anxiety but we should of done counseling together long ago. There were a variety of issues I caused many. And her obsession with D3 and failure to thrive / undiagnosed tongue tie / cosleeping etc. Made our MR which was never as strong as it could of been - my fault - fall apart.
Sandi, I appreciate your opinion as a woman and someone who has put a lot of time in on this topic and site plus been on the other side its very valuable to me. Thank you for your time.
She is sick of me pressuring her she gets crazy anxiety. Even from me standing close to her... makes me feel like its a lost cause and Im just wasting time money stress health. She doesnt see anything I do for her as positive except give her alone time. When I leave her alone she invites me over for breakfast or acts nice but still has anxiety. I guess I need to try to just be the nice neighbor guy when we are around each other. Respect her space not act like shes the woman I slept with 1000 times and have a child with. Since as you said she doesnt want to be with me.
I will take D3 and leave. Back off leaver her alone as you say. She loved me so much its hard to believe the switch just flipped as she says but it obviously did. Yes chasing her as I have has just made her wall up and pull away and make her mad. I need to stop doing what doesnt work and start doing what does.
Fixing my personality - Im on it. Reading a lot. Posting here. Not sure what else to do but trying my best.
She doesnt believe me about a great life and family. I was so worried about money and watched a lot of sports my priorities have shifted greatly. I just want quality of life and experiences with W and D3. Things W always wanted Im like damn she was right. I just couldnt hear her. And it seems listening is still an issue as you said.
I did tell her I would pay for her rental so she could get out of her parents and heal. Honestly Im lucky to be able to make good money doing something I love. So the money doesnt matter that much to me. If we have a chance to R and paying for her rental helps. Id do it no problem. Ive told her she is worth more than any money to me.
She doesnt want a present so I wont get her one that would be a 180 change thats for sure.
Thanks for the advice.
Took D3 for the day go for a hike and picnic. Get home and W is there packing. Got email saying we are approved for rental $1325 applied as if I will be spending some time there as we figure things out and W starts working. Which may be the case. I can not stand the thought of her and OM at place I am paying for. If divorce I guess that happen anyway. Asked L to meet. She has not wanted to work on our M since last June when she left. Had one foot and almost two out the door when we did counseling 8-9 months ago.
Advice? Sandi? Honor my word be strong get the rental. I guess that is what I have to do. And as a man I suppose that is what I will do.
Or agree to divorce and start the alimony clock. Give up on her.
Thanks. Feeling pretty low I guess I just need to give with no expectation of anything in return and continue to detach and GAl and do 180s
Thanks
She is sick of me pressuring her she gets crazy anxiety. Even from me standing close to her... makes me feel like its a lost cause and Im just wasting time money stress health.
I could not bear to be in the same room with my H. I couldn't stand to share the air with him. I couldn't take it if he tried to stand near me or watch me. Any of the things you just took for granted in a relationship, has to stop. Hanging around her or just being over at her parents' house will add a lot of anxiety.
She doesnt see anything I do for her as positive except give her alone time. When I leave her alone she invites me over for breakfast or acts nice but still has anxiety.
For one thing, you have spoiled her rotten! Spoiled people are useless, and they don't know how to appreciate the one who spoils them. I will tell any man that he ruins a woman and leaves her practically incapacitated when he does EVERYTHING so she doesn't have to lift her little finger. She becomes so self entitled, it's very hard to live with her. So........you are getting nowhere by spoiling her while separated. Do you hear what I am saying?
You do all the packing, or whatever needs done.....b/c it causes her anxiety. You work, and she doesn't. You keep D 60% or more of the time. You are paying for her rental so she doesn't have to stay with her parent (although she has told you she cares for OM). If you can afford it, and you've told her that's what you'd do......fine. But do you see how you try to do these things to help her......or maybe you hope to persuade her......or score a few brownie points? If this is a pattern of yours in the relationship history, don't you think it needs to change? I'm not saying you should never help your spouse in the MR or do loving things for them. I am saying not to cater and constantly accommodate them to the place you are spoiling, b/c they lose their sensitivity of appreciation.
I guess I need to try to just be the nice neighbor guy when we are around each other
Sometimes, even the neighbor is too much. You may need to be more like the checkout clerk and customer at the store. Speak politely, conduct business, smile, and leave.
Posting here. Not sure what else to do but trying my best.
We'll think of something.
She doesnt believe me about a great life and family. I was so worried about money and watched a lot of sports my priorities have shifted greatly. I just want quality of life and experiences with W and D3. Things W always wanted Im like damn she was right. I just couldnt hear her. And it seems listening is still an issue as you said.
It's sad it took this to open your eyes. However, her eyes are closed to you and what you try to tell her at the moment. After she's lived on her own for a while (if she ever does), maybe things will change.
I did tell her I would pay for her rental so she could get out of her parents and heal. Honestly Im lucky to be able to make good money doing something I love. So the money doesnt matter that much to me. If we have a chance to R and paying for her rental helps. Id do it no problem. Ive told her she is worth more than any money to me.
Okay, but for gosh sakes, stop telling her stuff like she's worth more than any money to you. That turns her off like you could not believe! This is not the same girl you M, and she doesn't have those feelings for you. When a woman doesn't feel in love with a man......it hinges on creepiness to hear him say things like this. Sorry, if that hurts your feelings, but you need to know that saying those things are not going to win her heart. You have got to stop talking & behaving as if she's still your loving W.
It's a lot like slow dancing. When your body steps forward......what does she do? She steps back. When your body steps back, it "draws" her toward you.
((hugs))
Sandi you could do this for a business have you ever thought of that? Thanks for your time, again.
It's good to hear that you had these feelings but then things changed I guess you are back with your H?
So less time together... that is probably a mistake I made before DB I was trying this save the marriage system and it said accept all invites for family time but leave first, don't pressure just be nice and cool, calm, confident etc. So no more breakfasts whether she offers to make pancakes or not etc. How do I know if I should ever spend time? Will I see some shift if things start going well?
So there has been a big role reversal. She spoiled me rotten for years then I grew accustomed to it and took her for granted. Now I have been too nice and it pushes her further away.
She has been doing all the packing. She takes care of our daughter 60-70% of the time since I work. So maybe a miscommunication in my previous posts there.
Yes I hear you I can not spoil her. I have been giving her fam time when she wants it but not getting anything I want. So I have been taking D3 and doing our own thing and if she misses us she can come to me.
Yes I agreed to pay for her rental. Now that time has come it feels like crap but I will be a man of my word and I will pay for the rental. Hopefully by next spring (when I work in the area of her rental things are better and maybe we are spending time there? Seems like wishful thinking). For her to get the place I am on the application and I will be on the lease... makes me very nervous and hoping to talk to L before it is set in stone. W has never really had anyone she can count on. She wants a strong man to be the rock she can lean on so thats what I was trying to provide. But I am seeing thats the wrong direction. Just DB and detach. How will I see if I should change anything?
So this is how I was this morning and we had a laugh and smile together when we both said have a nice day as she was leaving.
" Sometimes, even the neighbor is too much. You may need to be more like the checkout clerk and customer at the store. Speak politely, conduct business, smile, and leave. "
Small things but at least no arguments. We are supposed to talk about the rental later....
I have a sexual humor and used to use that so if making nice comments like your worth more than any money Im sure joking about sex made her very creeped out. Example I told her I wasnt sure I wanted the couch because we used to have sex there a lot and she looked like she was about to have an an anxiety attack.
This is great advice- It's a lot like slow dancing. When your body steps forward......what does she do? She steps back. When your body steps back, it "draws" her toward you.
I've jumped back and pulled away completely. Are there any signs I should look for? I guess if she tells me she has stopped talking with OM? Or if she asks to spend time together just the 2 of us... she invited me for breakfast the other day for fam time... but not sure if I should even accept those invites?
Thanks again, very much!
Did, Sandi really knows her stuff. Try to really read and understand her comments about what your W is thinking, because you've got to quit looking at her as your "same old wife buried in there somewhere" and realize that she has changed into someone completely different than the person you knew. The reward system you had in place before means NOTHING to her now.
I understand you feel obligated to pay her rent since you promised her, but there's no reason for you to support her swinging-single lifestyle indefinitely. And make no mistake about it, that's EXACTLY what she has in mind. Here is my suggestion on paying her rent- give her a deadline after which you are cutting her off. 3 months or 6 months maybe. Put her on notice that you're not a doormat.
I know Sandi is like the guru on here and I am honored to get the insight.
So w told me the other day that she knows it hurts she cares about OM. I think this was a big slip. She told me they have not seen each other in months because of his work schedule he trains new police officers and she said he wants to date her when his work schedule opens up. I said what are you going to wait around for him I thought your self worth was higher than that. She always is on her phone and hiding her phone. She tells me she thinks her phone is a trigger for me. I think she is projecting and she is worried about her phone. Saw sexting and naked pics on there months ago with rebound guy.
She has been going out once or twice a week for lunch or dinner. I was naive and thought she was with two girls who she says she has been close with the last couple months. She says maybe I will do something with girl number 1 for her birthday when I mentioned I may be off that weekend. We hadnt talked about how she needed girl friends but she has never been close with girls. Thinking about it more and having a growing sense of anxiety bordering on dread. Yea I know I need to detach. But I may just pull the plug. She has been seeing OM and lying I am almost sure of it.
We usually go to the ymca where our daughter goes to school in the mornings so tomorrow I am going to call her out. If it for goes badly I will give her three months and go black. Will not sign a lease for her. Maybe give her some money and get the f out of here. Then divorce. She was a great woman i am very attracted to her. She was amazing to me but that is all past tense. She has never cared about me since with actions. She has issues from her childhood. She has an autistic brother she will have to care for. Her mom hasnt multiple personalities and debt. W has never been able to forgive she has never been able to give second chances. She has said what makes you deserve a second chance. And she really has nothing but her looks and our daughter without me. She is smart and used to be a deep, good person but she is damaged and I can not trust her. I have tried for almost a year. Advice appreciated. I am not going to be manipulated and lied to.
One thing I learned from her and this situation. There are consequences for your actions. I will tell her prove you have not been lying and mainpulating me she actually said she could be doing this a month ago if she was a bad person. if you want me to sign for your rental show me your conversations with your girlfriends. Prove you are not lying and manipulating. Otherwise we see the L next week. But sign a lease for a liar who left me. I do not think I can do it. If it goes the way I expect I will probably say do not come in my house. Do not help with packing etc.
Man this [censored].
Need to stop hanging on her every word and detach. Trust half of what she does and none of what she says. I do not even know if it is worth waiting and doing all this. Losing hope. She just wants money and financial support and stability because she is scared. Highly doubtful I am going to sign a lease with her if she is blatantly lying to me. No trust or respect. A couple weeks ago she asked for a truce and said she wanted to trust each other and not fight. Maybe my imagination is running away with me.
I guess it does not matter if she is with OM or not... I should not let that affect how I treat her? It is more the lying manipulating and projecting.
Wrote a separation agreement and going to confront W today.
Paying $2300 per month for three months then will reassses.
Wrote notes for conversation.
I know she has been seeing OM and lying.
Too many signs and trusting my instincts, taking a stand.
No more spoiling or being a doormat.
And no more lying for her and causing her own anxiety then blaming it on me.
Same as she did before she left she made her decision in winter then left in summer.
Repressed emotion caused her to be physically sick during that time and she blamed me.
If she will not agree to my stipulations - giving me all cc and using no shared funds, meeting every 7-10 days to discuss D3 and future, continuing to be flexible with my work schedule as we strive for 50/50 custody. I will also pay D3 activity expenses.
If she wont agree she can get her place on her own and we can divorce if that is her choice. I think I am being more than fair although I doubt she feels the same way. Not much sleep last night a few hours. Got emotional reading what I wrote the first time just now... Wish me luck.
Did,
The only difference that I know of between an OM in the picture or not is that you should never validate anything to do with the OM or her disrespectful actions. Otherwise just keep detaching, GALing, and striving to be the lighthouse.
How do I not validate it? Talking to her shortly. She is choosing him and not me. I dont say its ok but she doesnt care what I say about it. Its more about her lying and deceiving me.
Paying $2300 per month for three months then will reassses.
AND??
No more spoiling or being a doormat.
Uh, ok...............
W says she has not seen OM in 3-4 months. Showed me phone and I said I believe you did not look at phone. Conversation overall went well, better than she expected. She is a good person not as bad as many WAW I have read about. Just doesnt have feelings for me at this time which stinks. Anything I do that would usually attract women just feels like pressure and causes anxiety.
Feel really weird about signing lease for her. Verbally agreed to separation agreement 3 months including meetings every 7-10 days and is going to look at separation agreement tomorrow. Will not sign lease or respond to landlord until she signs agreement.
Says OM is more than a friendship. She cares about him. I tell her that makes me feel like what are we doing I dont want to be strung along and put my neck out etc. Just divorce. She says she is taking it day by day doing her best trying to be peaceful and get along. She said tt was really nice eating together the other day. Seems nice and understanding. But nothing more than friends it seems like for her. Anxiety when I even come close to her. I feel like Im setting myself up for future pain when she gets with OM. Detach... Divorce? Move on... moving to a bigger town end of June maybe that will help some.
Thanks all!
How do I get the anxiety to fade? I was really a pretty neglectful husband to the point of being hurtful. No abuse or affair or physical abuse... emotional which is just as bad. I really relate to No More Mr Nice Guy. 2/3 done book. Working on 180s. Trying to connect with male friends. Havent been with a woman in a long time, wonder about dating again.
Still want W wife back... have to work on patience.
First, I don't care what anyone says, emotional is not just as bad as physical abuse, and is usually a two way street.
Second, you are making big mistakes that is guaranteeing your D. Maybe it is what you want now. All WAWs say they lost the feelings. It doesn't make sense to leave IF they still have feelings for the LBH. Paying for her to move to her own place is just the wrong thing to do. But I've said that 3 times and you've ignored it all 3 times so I give up.
I predict you will be paying $2300/month to her for a long time. Well into D. Good luck with that.
Yes you have a bad case of NGS and guilt. Giving her that money will not make her respect you NOR will it make her want to R.
Did you ever read DB/DR?
It's never too late to say "I've changed my mind, I will not be able to pay for this place for you". She'll be mad, oh well.
Did, in reading your post on the last page about the negotiation with your W I think you handled it well. I know this is painful but hang in there and stay strong, you're doing fine!
Paying for her to move to her own place is just the wrong thing to do. But I've said that 3 times and you've ignored it all 3 times so I give up.
I predict you will be paying $2300/month to her for a long time. Well into D. Good luck with that.
Steve, you offer some really, really great advice all across these forums, you're a great DB'er for sure. But one thing we all need to do is stay true to ourselves. Did made a promise to his W that he would pay for her place. If I'm reading him correctly, he doesn't want to go back on that promise because he would feel bad about HIMSELF. IE, he made a promise and he doesn't want to break it. That's saying more about his character than it is about whatever his W is going to do with the money, and I do think he should hold true to his character. That's why I suggested to him that he make the compromise of giving her a deadline, which he did. He's not ignoring you I don't think, your input is more than likely a big reason he put a 3 month limit on it.
I really appreciate everyones advice. My W has always been very sensitive she calls herself an empath. She gave up her career to be a stay at home mom. She has no income. She has our D3 70% of the time and no way to work until my work schedule opens up after July. I earn most of my income March - July. She has spent almost no money and been at her parents almost a year. It is not a good situation there with bad relationships all over the place.
When I come across as mean or if I were to take away what I have already promised things would go south fast. We were doing well last week before I started getting more involved on this forum. Since I have pushed for settlement agreement and tried to stand up for myself. We have fought more because of that. I do not really know what the answer is. But maybe having something in writing and meeting weekly, getting her off all my cc and checking account is a step in the right direction? She does come to me when I pull away and leave her alone so I am going to stick to that. Do what works.
I am going to be a man of my word and pay for the place. I am also trying to be tough and strong and stand up for myself. So the 3 month window Im going to focus on 180s and DB. I kind of doubt she has a dramatic change and comes back to me. I did include in the separation agreement I wrote up that the $2300 / mo will count towards divorce and alimony but Im sure this is not binding. If nothing changes from her what else am I supposed to do? Just wait around... I guess I could act like Im not married and date again. Another 3 months will be 15 months of separation. I want more children I want a partner who is excited for the great life I have ahead of me. I want to be the best I can be and accept myself for who I am. Im working on it to the best of my ability. Keep the advice coming! Agree with my decisions or not I value your input.
I would love to hear from people who have actually gotten back together. It seems most on here have D or have gotten back together and then broken up again... Sandi how did your negative feelings for your husband change? Just time and space?
Thanks all and have a nice night. I have D3 tonight so going to enjoy the time as best I can.
It's good to hear that you had these feelings but then things changed I guess you are back with your H?
Yes, my H and I are still together.
So less time together... that is probably a mistake I made before DB I was trying this save the marriage system and it said accept all invites for family time but leave first, don't pressure just be nice and cool, calm, confident etc.
In certain situations, that advice might work. However, your W doesn't want to spend time together, b/c she wanted to give it up. Yes, there are times she may still want the "family" thing, especially on holidays or special events. For some women, tradition runs deep, and some WW's just think with an entitled mindset and assume particular things will remain. Actually, they want to cherry pick the times. When it is convenient for them, or fits their mood at the time, or if they don't have a better offer from someone else.
Let me use an example of a woman who is in love with a man who won't commit to a relationship. He wants to have sex with her, but she has high standards and will not give her body to a man who won't commit to her. So, why would a H give his wayward W family time when she won't commit to a M with him? See what I mean?
The WW usually has a fantasy in her head, and the sooner she wakes up to the real world of living a separated life from her H and all the benefits that came in the M......the sooner she will see all that she's lost and the terrible choices she made. That doesn't mean she will automatically have a desire for her H. Having her fantasy crumbled and seeing her reality, is only the first step. That's why I encourage the H to stop playing happy family. Stop showing her how much he wants to save the MR. (That doesn't mean he can't still want it, but he should not be so darn obvious). He should stop being available to her. She fired him as her H, so why should he stick around like a fifth wheel........being so pathetically obvious? That's not very attractive. Even if the W invites the H to stay for dinner (or whatever), he should have so much GAL plans that he's never free to drop everything and jump at her invitation.
No time together, is more like it. The only time you should ever see her is when exchanging the child. Unless there is some business you just have to "see" her to handle it.......then why would you think you are suppose to spend time together? She did not leave the M in order to work on it. She left b/c she doesn't want it anymore. There is a huge difference there. The bomb drop shook you to your senses, and now you have this tremdous urgency to work on your M and prove to her how much you love her. However, at the point of the BD, the W is completely dead to all those feelings. That's why she gave the H the BD in the first place, b/c she is done! It is
not her way of giving him a warning and telling him to wake up. She is telling him it's too late and it's over. This is what so many H's don't get. He doesn't understand why she won't try to work on the M. I'll tell you why. It's b/c all her
trying was during those previous years. And now..... she is done, and they are not on the same time table.
So no more breakfasts whether she offers to make pancakes or not etc.
What do you mean whether she offers to make pancakes or not?
Have you been there hanging around at breakfast time? Let me make this perfectly clear, there should be no more breakfasts........
even if she invites you. Do not be anywhere in the vicinity of her parents' house at breakfast time. If you are picking up your child, then stop going so early. Get there after you know the child has eaten and is dressed to leave. Oh man, you are lucky she hasn't thrown the pancakes in your face!
She has been doing all the packing. She takes care of our daughter 60-70% of the time since I work. So maybe a miscommunication in my previous posts there
.
Sorry, I have trouble knowing when you are saying something as her or yourself.
Yes I hear you I can not spoil her. I have been giving her fam time when she wants it but not getting anything I want. So I have been taking D3 and doing our own thing and if she misses us she can come to me.
My suggestion is that you don't invite her along. If she asks, or invites herself.......you can decide about it. My point is that you currently need to pull the plug on her getting to play family when it suits her. Here's the thing. In a real home and relationship,
you are family all the time, not just whenever it suits your mood. You can't tear it up one day and then decide you want everyone to play together the next day. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way.
I've watched divorced families for many, many years. In nearly all cases, the ex spouses go on to M someone new, and many times have more kids with the new spouse. What I
don't see is the ex spouses and their kid having family together......... while their new family waits for them. Neither do I see all four spouses with all their kids playing together like one huge happy family. It simply doesn't happen in real life. At best, everyone treats each other
respectfully and may even act
friendly when they see each other. They no longer give their former spouse "family time".
I have watched divorced couples years later down the road, when grandchildren were born, or tragidy struck, etc. You know those times that kind of force both sides to show up at the same time? I think I have probably witnessed the best case sceneros.......(that did not hinge on weirdness). But, I had never heard or seen split couples having "family time", when one of them would be in an affair. That is, until I came to this board! LBH's need to wake up and realize how entitled the wayward nature really is, and his WW will take advantage every chance she gets.
She wants a strong man to be the rock she can lean on so thats what I was trying to provide. But I am seeing thats the wrong direction. Just DB and detach. How will I see if I should change anything?
Do you mean what signs will she give to indicate she wants back in the M?
I have a sexual humor and used to use that so if making nice comments like your worth more than any money Im sure joking about sex made her very creeped out. Example I told her I wasnt sure I wanted the couch because we used to have sex there a lot and she looked like she was about to have an an anxiety attack.
Absolutely no jokes or remarks with any sexual content.
[quote]I've jumped back and pulled away completely. Are there any signs I should look for? I guess if she tells me she has stopped talking with OM? Or if she asks to spend time together just the 2 of us... she invited me for breakfast the other day for fam time... but not sure if I should even accept those invites?
Here's the thing........it will be a long time before you see any of the "signs" I think you are talking about. There's so much she has to process. You see, there is more that separates a wayward from a WAW than just having an A or behaving like Girls Gone Wild. It is the inward part of her that has changed. It is the result of deep resentment and loss of respect for you, and selfishness has taken over and is the driving force in her. Everything is about
her, and if you don't believe me.......just don't cooperate with her and see what happens! In order for her to find her old self again, there are things that have to happen. She has to face reality. She has to believe she losing or has lost something particularly important to her. She usually has to think she could lose her H
completely (I can explain more later). Her fantasy has to crumble. She has to change her mindset, before her feelings will change. She needs to pursue her H and really work hard to get him back. She should feel remorse for the pain she has caused. She should sincerely apologize for the betrayal, deceit, lies, etc. She should be willing to do whatever is neccessessary to save her MR. She should be willing to follow her H's stipulations for reconciling, instead of giving her own. The entitlement should be completely gone, and the H should be able to see humility in her. If he can't......my warning is to stay the heck away from her.
Anyway, this all comes about from a process that takes place in her heart/mind, and it takes time for her to work through it.......if it's genuine. I am very suspicious of any WW that claims some type of "sudden" change. Beware of anything suddenly changing with her. When you see her words, her attitude, and her actions
consently line up together.......you can start to believe her. Until then, you can't believe her or trust her.
Let me warn you about her emotionally temp checking. When she sees you pulling away, she'll say or do something to see if you are still emotionally attached to her. She'll gage how much you are attached by how you respond to her test. We call it temperature checking. And, BTW, the LBS does not test the waters or temp check the wayward spouse. Those are actions of the wayward.......and not the faithful spouse. If you show that you are still emotionally attached, she'll be ready to dump you the next day. Do not show you still care about her, and don't cave to any temptation she puts out there.
Sandi2,
When you were a WW, would you characterize urself as having had some personality disorder? And you recovered from it eventually to get back with your husband?
Sandi - Thanks very much for your response, this is really helpful and informative.
W acts like she is nice, kind and supportive just yesterday is telling me how she will support me and I will support her. But nothing about relationship or coming back to the M. I completely agree she can not just have family time when she wants it. She doesnt want any holidays or birthdays and everything is subconscious with her. She doesnt recognize anything she is doing as wrong. And says she is really focused on being a good person which I believe. But she is doing it all by herself and the girlfriends she spends time with are not centered at all. They are kind of toxic in bad relationships and W tells me about how one is kind of trying to get pregnant but not really just because she wants kids with a guy shes been with a couple months. Or the other lost connection with H but wont leave him until kids are grown. Bad examples of relationships and not great people in my opinion...
I may use the line at some point if she asks- she fired me from the MR so she doesnt get to have the perks that come with it. She is either in the family all the time or not at all. I just need to be consistent and strong about it... I pulled away for a few days and then she invited over for breakfast and I went with D3... then arguing ensued etc. I had been pushing for family time and time together for months. So she will see this as me being inconsistent again. Oh well...
She mentions family time is important for D3 to see us getting along together. I guess we will see how she responds when I do not cooperate with her. Badly Im sure. Maybe if its just actions and no words the arguing wont come...
I am going to let my actions speak. Stop being around and she can work it out for herself. Talking about it will just make her think I can not be trusted and I change my personality every week as she has said recently. We usually meet at the YMCA when our D3 goes to school there for an hour and workout at the gym at the same time. We dont speak much. GAL dont go for that time... if I have D3 I dont know if I can tell W not to go. Maybe I just drop her off and leave and allow W to have that time? I could say if I have D3 you dont come to gym and vice versa but that will just lead to arguing. Probably better to just GAL and do my own thing.
Along with the financial aspect of our separation agreement I wrote that we would get together every 7-10 days to talk about D3 future and plans for marriage. This can be the only time we talk in person? Or just dont do that at all? We have a house together and a lot of things to figure out - splitting furniture, weekly schedule with D3 custody etc. My work schedule is never the same... I guess this meeting could just be to figure out custody sharing and moving process. Then I can just nicely leave...? Unless she makes a dramatic shift in the future to pursuing me and no OM in picture.
She did come back to me after 1st PA this winter. She lied about it and said just friends, while she was sending naked pictures and sexting graphic stuff - and manipulation tactic although true in her head was to not hurt me. I saw her phone and this was the worst part of this whole thing, it was as bad as you can imagine with her physically trying to attack me to get her phone and me easily fending her off as she hurt herself trying to hurt me... talking to her mom and OM. Probably the worst time of my life. I was pathetic- depressed high anxiety lack of sleep. A few weeks after she told me to date, why I listened to her I dont know easier I guess or just weak. So I had a couple short lived relationships, I would be up and excited for new woman then see flaws and be down and think of W. I wasnt ready to date and I still am not even though a big part of me would like to. I need to be stronger than that and its not fair to OW. Its like a painkiller or distraction. Then W came back this winter after things got to serious with PA she definitely affaired down, a lot. I was wary and tried to take it slow but she said all these great things. Youre my ideal man when I was with him I thought of you was very apologetic. But it was a radical shift and obviously couldnt be maintained she got anxious in a few days and left again. Blaming me for being pushy but I think it as much or more of her being oversensitive and never working on herself. A couple weeks later she was back online dating and that is where she met this OM she says she is currently more than friends with and cares about. They text every day but havent seen each other in 3-4 months. I consider it an EA at this point but they were sleeping together months ago. He doesnt have time and doesnt prioritize her as far as I know. Her self worth has always been an issue stemming from childhood issues and then my neglect probably made it worse. Just some backstory there.
Anyway thanks again Sandi. Im going to commit to no time together. GAL, work on myself and continue 180s which are more like 90s or 120s at this point. I have almost finished No More Mr Nice Guy. I read DB and started DR. Authoer of NMMNG recommended these books figure I will throw them out here: Feel the fear and do it anyway, Way of the superior man, War of Art, The road less traveled and the passionate marriage. So I have a lot of reading to do, moving from our big house to a nice but small 2 BR condo for me and a 2 BR townhouse for her is a process and a lot of work. She has been doing the majority of packing since she doenst work. Im trying to connect with guy friends but havent had much success recently. Im very busy with work through late July which is rewarding I coach a lot of high school and youth boys. I can pack, read and move. But still need to get a consistent social life. All my guy friends are coupled up and its just not a priority for many of them. The urge to date is there but I think that is part of Mr Nice Guy syndrome and validation from women. I havent been dating in months.
Thanks again for all your insights its valuable. I hope things get better but it seems like there are going to be some lonely times ahead... just focus on what I can control and giving my love and energy to myself and D3.
So W texted me at 1130pm I shattered my phone. I dont want to spend a lot of money on a new one. My response at 4am when I am up and posting / working was maybe OM has one for you. Her current phone was given to her by first OM. Probably immature and a bad response...
Our phone plan is still through her and her parents business. She stopped working 2 years ago. I can say you can get your own phone as we are about to separate finances and I am giving her rental payment + $1000 for life / expenses for 3 months? She can do a monthly payment or whatever? She will want to pay through our/ my money. I can also take my phone off her parents plan along with this action.
Thoughts?
Sandi2,
When you were a WW, would you characterize urself as having had some personality disorder? And you recovered from it eventually to get back with your husband?
No, I did not have any personality disorder. When waywards are at their peak of rebellion, they may cause their loved ones to wonder if something is mentally wrong, b/c this is not the person they have always known.
I recovered from my wayward mindset, but I had no personality disorder.
Sandi2,
When you were a WW, would you characterize urself as having had some personality disorder? And you recovered from it eventually to get back with your husband?
No, I did not have any personality disorder. When waywards are at their peak of rebellion, they may cause their loved ones to wonder if something is mentally wrong, b/c this is not the person they have always known.
I recovered from my wayward mindset, but I had no personality disorder.
Good to know. So suppose taking example of my WAW who is not wayward but is just walking out of my life. She mentioned in her supposedly final text " I dont deserve her!". I have been her doormat for 6 years and i finally got this from her. I have read your detachment and accordingly we should not beleive anything they say and only 50% of what they do.
If i characterize my wife as normal, what does the above statement really mean then?
Also after we permanently divorce and move on, will she ever realize all the hurt she caused me ever?
Did, in reading your post on the last page about the negotiation with your W I think you handled it well. I know this is painful but hang in there and stay strong, you're doing fine!
Paying for her to move to her own place is just the wrong thing to do. But I've said that 3 times and you've ignored it all 3 times so I give up.
I predict you will be paying $2300/month to her for a long time. Well into D. Good luck with that.
Steve, you offer some really, really great advice all across these forums, you're a great DB'er for sure. But one thing we all need to do is stay true to ourselves. Did made a promise to his W that he would pay for her place. If I'm reading him correctly, he doesn't want to go back on that promise because he would feel bad about HIMSELF. IE, he made a promise and he doesn't want to break it. That's saying more about his character than it is about whatever his W is going to do with the money, and I do think he should hold true to his character. That's why I suggested to him that he make the compromise of giving her a deadline, which he did. He's not ignoring you I don't think, your input is more than likely a big reason he put a 3 month limit on it.
AS, it is difficult to watch a Nice Guy, as a recovering one, from afar. The problem with NGs and boundaries is that we don't enforce them. We make grand pronouncements that have no teeth. I fear Did is setting himself up to enable his wife and her waywardness. I also felt he was in a good position with her being unhappy at her parents'house.
Anyway character is important but NGs often do things that they shouldn't to feel better about themselves.
AS, I defer to you on such matters. You're far wiser at DBing than I am.
Oh dear! I wrote a long post and lost it.
I hate it when that happens!! I will have to get energized to write it again.
Nutcrac,, I will take your post to your thread and answer it, so as not to hijack Did's thread.
She should be willing to do whatever is neccessessary to save her MR. She should be willing to follow her H's stipulations for reconciling, instead of giving her own.
Sandi, completely agree with you. This is a piece that I think many WWs dont get and many LBSs dont enforce because the instinct is to not rock the boat especially when you think things are headed in the right direction. It takes a lot of faith, patience and courage to stay strong and ask for what you need rather than dismiss it so the process can go faster.
Oh dear, why is my post blank, ugh.
Text convo this morning:
Me: Because your phone was from OM1. I'm giving you $2325 to have your own place and separating our finances I'm sure you expect your phone to be my responsibility. Are you coming here to look at separation agreement or I will just drop it off to you with her? Did you respond to place for rental you don't want to lose the place do you?
W: Yea I responded. Dan please I was not trying to make you mad or ask for you to buy anything sorry.
Me: I am not mad. But I do think you subconsciously want to have your cake and eat it too. I was thinking about your comment yesterday about family and it being good for D3. I'm not going to deceive her. A family is together all the time.
W: It is not deception geez.
Me: Yes it is. You fired me as your husband you left me and our family. We are separated. I have been doing this weird fake family thing. Would you be with a guy that just wanted to sleep with you sometimes?
If and when you commit to me I would love to have family time. You know how badly I want that. Until then I need to respect myself and detach and not set myself up for pain if you choose OM2 or anything other than me and our family. If we are separated we are actually separated. And understand I'm saying this not dating anyone. I'm trying to be a faithful husband and good strong person. If you want to come back to our life you can but you can not have more than a friendship w another guy and text him every day and have me and our family.
Did,
I thought you handled it well and stood up for yourself in the first part of the conversation. Good job!
I think you lost it a bit at the end.
If and when you commit to me I would love to have family time. You know how badly I want that. Until then I need to respect myself and detach and not set myself up for pain if you choose OM2 or anything other than me and our family. If we are separated we are actually separated. And understand I'm saying this not dating anyone. I'm trying to be a faithful husband and good strong person. If you want to come back to our life you can but you can not have more than a friendship w another guy and text him every day and have me and our family.
That is pursuit. You are chasing after her again. Read Sandi's rules. Don't talk about the relationship. She knows that you want her back, you don't need to keep saying it. You need to stop saying it.
Trust me, I want to tell my W how much i would love to reconcile. But it is fruitless at this point. She is not ready to hear it, nor is yours. It just pushes them further away.
Stay strong!
Thanks David... Youre right I said too much.
But at least she knows she cant have family time at this point so maybe a step in the right direction.
W acts like she is nice, kind and supportive just yesterday is telling me how she will support me and I will support her. But nothing about relationship or coming back to the M.
That is her way of demoting you from the position of H......to "friend". Which,
friends don't work, b/c of the two different viewpoints of its definition.
She doesnt recognize anything she is doing as wrong. And says she is really focused on being a good person which I believe. But she is doing it all by herself and the girlfriends she spends time with are not centered at all. She doesnt recognize anything she is doing as wrong. And says she is really focused on being a good person which I believe
.
You believe she is focused on being a good person? Starting when?
But she is doing it all by herself and the girlfriends she spends time with are not centered at all. They are kind of toxic in bad relationships and W tells me about how one is kind of trying to get pregnant but not really just because she wants kids with a guy shes been with a couple months. Or the other lost connection with H but wont leave him until kids are grown. Bad examples of relationships and not great people in my opinion...
Women are influenced a lot by their friends.
She is either in the family all the time or not at all
Well, it's one thing for me to explain it to you, but if you try repeating it to your W, it will probably sound like emotional pressure to
her ears.
I had been pushing for family time and time together for months. So she will see this as me being inconsistent again. Oh well...
You would be the first LBH to figure out what his WW was thinking. You don't know how a regular/normal woman thinks.......how are you going to know what your WW thinks?
Anyway, if it has been "you" pushing for family time.......it's best to keep your lines to yourself, for the time being.
Along with the financial aspect of our separation agreement I wrote that we would get together every 7-10 days to talk about D3 future
Wow, that's a lot of talking about a 3 yr old's future.
Ah........now we get to the meat of it. Having a relationship talk every 7-10 days. And making M plans! Why the heck do you think she wants to sit down with you once a week to discuss plans for M? Didn't she indicate her plans when she left you? Why do you think pushing her every 7-10 days would work in your favor? If there had been a thread.......just a sliver of attraction left......
that would bury it right then & there! I just don't understand why you guys think a woman who finds you unattractive as a H.....and who no longer has feelings for you.......believe if you wear her down enough, those feelings will return! It's not just LBH's......it's LBW's that want to draw the spouse back through talks. Talks do not work on waywards.
This can be the only time we talk in person? Or just dont do that at all? We have a house together and a lot of things to figure out - splitting furniture, weekly schedule with D3 custody etc. My work schedule is never the same... I guess this meeting could just be to figure out custody sharing and moving process. Then I can just nicely leave...? Unless she makes a dramatic shift in the future to pursuing me and no OM in picture.
Stop making up excuses to talk and see her in person. Write out your various shifts and when you can have D3. Send it to her. The two of you can adjust the schedule whenever necessary, but that can be done over text or email. You don't have to set up a meeting to have a discussion about the child......which is really just a disguise for seeing WW and taking another shot at pressuring her about the M.
You cannot talk a WW back into the MR. Until she comes to you and asks what she has to do for you to take her back.........forget talking her into coming back.
She did come back to me after 1st PA this winter. She lied about it and said just friends, while she was sending naked pictures and sexting graphic stuff - and manipulation tactic although true in her head was to not hurt me. I saw her phone and this was the worst part of this whole thing, it was as bad as you can imagine with her physically trying to attack me to get her phone and me easily fending her off as she hurt herself trying to hurt me... talking to her mom and OM. Probably the worst time of my life
But you just said she is focused on being a good person, and that you
believe her! Don't believe it. Don't believe anything she says. Wait until you see her words, attitude, and actions
consistently line up......and
then you can consider believing her.
I consider it an EA at this point but they were sleeping together months ago. He doesnt have time and doesnt prioritize her as far as I know. Her self worth has always been an issue stemming from childhood issues and then my neglect probably made it worse. Just some backstory there.
If she slept with the guy, then it's a PA. They are separated by miles at the moment. As long as she has contact with him in some form, her fantasy will be fed and she will continue having OM in her head.
Anyway thanks again Sandi. Im going to commit to no time together. GAL, work on myself and continue 180s which are more like 90s or 120s at this point. I have almost finished No More Mr Nice Guy. I read DB and started DR
You are most welcome, and I am excited to see your commitment and reading those books! I realize this is all very difficult for you. There have been many nice guys who have traveled this road before you......and whether or not the M's were saved, they came through the ordeal as
winners b/c of the great change made in themselves. I know you can do it, too!
Me: Because your phone was from OM1. I'm giving you $2325 to have your own place and separating our finances I'm sure you expect your phone to be my responsibility. Are you coming here to look at separation agreement or I will just drop it off to you with her? Did you respond to place for rental you don't want to lose the place do you?
W: Yea I responded. Dan please I was not trying to make you mad or ask for you to buy anything sorry.
Me: I am not mad. But I do think you subconsciously want to have your cake and eat it too. I was thinking about your comment yesterday about family and it being good for D3. I'm not going to deceive her. A family is together all the time.
W: It is not deception geez.
Me: Yes it is. You fired me as your husband you left me and our family. We are separated. I have been doing this weird fake family thing. Would you be with a guy that just wanted to sleep with you sometimes?
If and when you commit to me I would love to have family time. You know how badly I want that. Until then I need to respect myself and detach and not set myself up for pain if you choose OM2 or anything other than me and our family. If we are separated we are actually separated. And understand I'm saying this not dating anyone. I'm trying to be a faithful husband and good strong person. If you want to come back to our life you can but you can not have more than a friendship w another guy and text him every day and have me and our family.
OMG!!!
Put duct tape over your mouth and STFU!!
You are telling her all this stuff you are reading on the board! It's not for
her ears. You need to get that point.
You are pursuing, pressurizing, and controlling. Not a single word in that discussion should have been uttered by you. Not one!
Thanks Sandi. I guess I screwed that up. I hope it is not too much of a setback. I got it. Everything on here is for me and not for her. I guess talking to her about just about anything is pointless?
I mentioned she said she is working on being a good person. That is the last few months. 8-9 months ago she was making horrible decisions.
I am going to focus on following Sandis advice and DB.
We still own our home together and she says she wants to come over tomorrow to help D3 get ready for a birthday party of a friend that I am taking her too. I will just do my own thing. Work on my office. Walk the dog etc.
I will keep posting. I feel a lot better NOT chasing her and slowly starting to detach I think / hope.
Thanks all!
I guess talking to her about just about anything is pointless?
Yes.
We still own our home together and she says she wants to come over tomorrow to help D3 get ready for a birthday party of a friend that I am taking her too. I will just do my own thing. Work on my office. Walk the dog etc.
Okay, good.
Does your W come & go in the home as she sees fit?
I will keep posting. I feel a lot better NOT chasing her and slowly starting to detach I think / hope.
It will probably get worse before it gets better, but you'll get there.
Thanks Sandi I really appreciate you taking your time. No she tells me before she is coming. She does not come over much except to grab something or pack at this point.
It has been really bad in the past. This has been a year separation already. Seems like a long time but maybe not seeing other signatures on here.
W refused to sign the separation agreement I wrote up saying I would pay her $2325 for 3 months - $1325 rent and $1000 expenses and she would give me all cc and access to checking accnt. She says it does not make sense and that I am trying to control her by taking all the credit cards / could spend all the savings etc. She said we should split everything fully including the savings (not much that is not in the equity of the house) and start the monthly payments / give me cc when our house sells and that would be the only time we split funds if we divorce. We are splitting the profit from our house sale - 45k each. I was pushing separating finances because of recommendations from this board. She probably spends less than $1000 per month at this point as it is. I am so tired of fighting with her and it was extremely draining and negative today. I was feeling better working on less communication and detaching and then we had this intense conversation / argument today. I am planning on meeting with L Wed AM to get some perspective & advice. It is only $100 for a consultation so I guess thats worth it.
Input is appreciated. I know many will say I am being Mr Nice Guy. She is a stay at home mom trying to start working again but she would make less money than day care costs. So it doesnt make sense since I am working Mon - Thurs until 830pm I really cant have D3 overnight. She could probably get more $ if we divorce... but we arent divorced and she isnt pushing for that at this time. I am planning to do a relatively short time period ( 3 months that I am committing to pay her monthly). If nothing changes in regard to our relationship or her working maybe we D at that time.
Thanks all
W refused to sign the separation agreement I wrote up saying I would pay her $2325 for 3 months - $1325 rent and $1000 expenses and she would give me all cc and access to checking accnt. She says it does not make sense and that I am trying to control her by taking all the credit cards / could spend all the savings etc. She said we should split everything fully including the savings (not much that is not in the equity of the house) and start the monthly payments / give me cc when our house sells and that would be the only time we split funds if we divorce. We are splitting the profit from our house sale - 45k each. I was pushing separating finances because of recommendations from this board. She probably spends less than $1000 per month at this point as it is. I am so tired of fighting with her and it was extremely draining and negative today. I was feeling better working on less communication and detaching and then we had this intense conversation / argument today. I am planning on meeting with L Wed AM to get some perspective & advice. It is only $100 for a consultation so I guess thats worth it.
Input is appreciated. I know many will say I am being Mr Nice Guy. She is a stay at home mom trying to start working again but she would make less money than day care costs. So it doesnt make sense since I am working Mon - Thurs until 830pm I really cant have D3 overnight. She could probably get more $ if we divorce... but we arent divorced and she isnt pushing for that at this time. I am planning to do a relatively short time period ( 3 months that I am committing to pay her monthly). If nothing changes in regard to our relationship or her working maybe we D at that time.
Thanks all
Dude I would just let her decline and move right the hell on. Go meet a buddy, and enjoy the sun shining. You offer her quite a bit IMO, and she says screw off? I'd say OK, don't like it don't take it. I'll have a coke.
I am really considering going through with the divorce soon. It is not what I want but this has been a year. I am going to be paying for her rental. Might as well start the alimony clock ticking. I do not see any changes forthcoming in her. I think she just wants to be friends but feels entitled that I support her. Because I was not a great husband and she stopped working to raise our daughter - she earned less than day care cost. Not really seeing any hope or light at the end off the tunnel. I am not a patient person maybe I should try to be patient for my family and my daughter. And be unselfish. But The love and attraction she had for me seems so far gone. She has called me a hot man in regard to women not being able to be just friends with me. But I think the fire just died in her.
She wants it to start when our house sells and we can all split everything. I am going to talk to L to make sure I am protected. I have been holding on for so long and it feels like I am holding myself back. If she wants a sh*t life that is her decision. She does not have those feelings for me. I just feel bad for my daughter. I want to see her every day. But what the F am I waiting for?
Having a lot of anxiety today feel like the weight is weighing me down. Stress of work and conflicts there.
W asks me to watch D3 for her to go to lunch w a friend Thurs. I said I could do it and adjust an appointment I have to Fri.
W asks when I have a day off so she can get her hair done. I told her its a little frustrating that her priorities are getting her hair done and going out with her friends. She has our D a lot so I cant say she should be working but frustrating as he*l.
She wants to take D3 to a theme park Fri, I am off Fri-Sun and was hoping to get to the beach Fri and Sat. Doesnt seem like that will happen. Then I work like 3 weeks straight.
Not trying to paint her in a bad light. Her birthday is next Tues and she says she isnt doing anything else for her bday. She also is offering to pack and do grocery shopping.
I know Sandi said it was going to get worse before it gets better. Well its feeling worse... Im letting the negative emotions get the best of me not being patient right now. But I there have been no positive interactions since pulling away and focusing on DB. We were getting along better a few weeks ago W was saying she wanted to hug me more etc. Now pulling away Im not sure this is working. May try another strategy but being nice and spending time together then Im the nice guy doormat friend zone with financial support...
Trying to GAL but stuck in our house working a lot and working at night. I have been exercising more. I feel like maybe I need to find a mens group or therapy or something but havent been able to find any. Having a tough time.
Have consultation with L Wed AM.
W asks me to help her move stuff into her place July 1. She will help me move and pack as well. I told her I felt weird about it but can handle it. She asked if she should ask someone else. Assume OM who she has not seen and is not planning to see so she says. I kind of believe it but it does not really matter. She has a relationship w him.
We have so much stuff we have to do together with our shared family home and moving out DB seems kind of impossible. We are talking about furniture and house stuff daily besides D3 schedule with me working every night during the week we trade D off for me to have her for a few hours.
I think I should be cool calm steady reliable during this process. In the past I would lose my cool at times in difficult situations. She used to say I would crumble. So be strong and 180. Or I am just making everything easy for her and it is ok not to be nice to her in these situations. I know she likes me best when I m calm cool and strong. Should I be a jerk and say no move your own stuff since she left me? I do not blame her for leaving but not wanting to work on the r and work together ever since is where I can not believe she does not care more and have feelings.
Really feeling like it is just over and I am wasting time and money by hanging on.
anyone familiar with feeling sad, lonely, waking up depressed while DB. W has shown no interest and shows me no emotion. When we were spending time together weeks ago at her parents and I was happy around D3 she was saying she wanted to hug me more and there was happiness. Sandi told me definitely do not hang at her parents. Logically I understand DB works and you have to be patient. But it seems like the opposite just growing further apart. W Only talks about moving and packing or grocery shopping things like that.
Really feeling empty. Trying to GAL but the only option seems to be dating or gym, yoga, meditation. I guess I just need to be proactive and do what I can.
Did, DBing is all about the emotions you mention. You should be DBing when you feel like it and DBing when you don't. Always be DBing. DBing works whether it takes a day for your W to respond positively, or a decade. Most fall somewhere in between and closer to a day than a decade, but a lack of patience is what trips most DBers up.
I have no answer on the helping with the move. My instinct is to say that since you are opposed to her moving, that you do not help her do so. But I have no experience in that realm and so will leave it to others to chime in on.
Steve thanks for the response man. If Dbing is all about those feelings that's really tough. Feeling lonely, sad and empty is tough. I think it's as much about my daughter as W. When I have D3 Im in a way better place. Patience is something I'm working on. I was very impatient and still am I suppose.
W was over here today for a couple hours packing and then we broke down some furniture together. Had some hugs and laughs. Hugs I want to lift her chin look her in the eyes and kiss her but I hold back.
So... she mentions maybe well date again when I asked if she was excited about having her own place. In the past Id overanalyze this ask her about it etc and probably push her away. Make her feel like she can't be herself.
Im just going to stay the course. If Im lonely and sad and things are getting better I guess its worth it. Even if its tough to get out of bed some mornings. Trying to get the respect and attraction back but I never know what she's thinking.
I didnt go to the YMCA where our daughter goes to school this morning. We usually meet there. Working out at the gym at the same time is just weird and seems to be the opposite of DB. We both look at each other and my mind goes sexual places it shouldnt.
I am thinking of contacting a DB coach. Anyone have good experiences? Thanks for the support & advice.
Did, you're at 10 pages so Cadet will be along shortly to tell you to start a new thread
Post the new thread link as your last post here and post the link to this thread in the first post of your new thread.
If Dbing is all about those feelings that's really tough. Feeling lonely, sad and empty is tough.
Steve is right, what you're going through is completely normal. I know it hurts, but you're not alone in this, we all either went through it or are going through it. But just to be clear, DB'ing isn't about those feelings, those feelings are because your W dumped you. DB'ing
(GAL in particular) is what helps you recover and get past those feelings. But it takes time! It took me about 18 months, some people recover quicker and some slower so don't hold yourself to a certain timeline. After my ex left, the first week she had the kids was the loneliest week of my life. The pain was nearly unbearable. I took life a day at a time back then, I just tried to clear my mind of all the crap thoughts I was having about the future and just concentrate on getting through that one day. Slowly I got used to the loneliness, and eventually as I became more and more independent I wasn't lonely being alone, and beyond that I came to actually embrace my alone time. I filled it up (and still do) with all the GAL activities that I never had time for before. Now my GF of 3 years is talking about wanting to move in and guess what, one of my biggest problems is that I enjoy living alone so much now that I don't want her to move in! So just know it's OK to feel pain and loneliness and heartache. And also know it gets better each day, and somewhere down the road you will be strong, independent, NOT lonely even when you're alone.
Hugs I want to lift her chin look her in the eyes and kiss her but I hold back.
Yeah definitely do not do that, she'll likely just reject you and leave you even more depressed.
I am thinking of contacting a DB coach. Anyone have good experiences? Thanks for the support & advice.
I never had one but those around here that did have said nothing but great things about them.
So... she mentions maybe well date again when I asked if she was excited about having her own place. In the past Id overanalyze this ask her about it etc and probably push her away. Make her feel like she can't be herself.
Mine said that too. But remember, she is going to say things just to try to make it easier on herself. By soothing you it makes it easier on her. That is probably what the hugs are about.
The two days after bomb day my wife was extremely affectionate. She hugged me. She held my hand. She rubbed my back. When I started to detach and let go that all stopped. Later when we talked about it she said she was affectionate because, "I felt like you needed it." She wasn't doing it for me, she was doing it for her. She'd just taken my legs out from under me and to ease her own conscience she was trying to make me feel better. As soon as she detected I was getting over the initial shock, she withdrew.
Believe nothing she says, and only half of what she does. I will repeat something again, I may have even said it to you. But WAWs don't need their own place to find themselves, to figure things out, or even to date their husbands. WAWs need their own place so that they can sleep with other people. I know that is hard to hear, but think about it. She can date you while living with you! In fact, that doesn't even make sense. Hey, I need my own place so that you and I can date. Huh?
Im just going to stay the course. If Im lonely and sad and things are getting better I guess its worth it. Even if its tough to get out of bed some mornings. Trying to get the respect and attraction back but I never know what she's thinking.
It is unhealthy to be so attached to someone that they control your happiness. You need to differentiate and find your happiness internally.
And you will NEVER know what she is thinking. That is one of the hardest things for LBSs to come to grips with. What she says IS NOT what she is thinking. Half of what she does IS NOT what she is thinking. Her consistent behavior over a long period of time.....that is what she was thinking.
See we as LBSs try to find any positive shred to cling to. "We shared hugs" means everything, oh but the fact that those were while I was in the process of helping her move out means nothing. What is bigger? Her moving out, or her coming down off of her high horse a few times to patronize you with a hug or two?
See the backwards thinking? I don't mean to clobber you with all of this Did, but you have to face reality. Yes striving for respect and attractiveness is good. But you don't get that by constantly trying to mindread her, or trying to hug or kiss her. You get that by showing her you have a life outside of her. That any 180s you've made are real. By self-differentiating and showing her that you will be happy and fulfilled with or without her, and by being the best Did that you can be!
You have this. Keep your chin up, be the alpha you are capable of, and get out there and have the life you want to have!
Thanks again Steve. Going to go hit the weights. Her consistent behavior is to not show me any emotion and be like a robot almost around me. She is getting better and we have been able to get along. The anxiety has faded. Yes we both can influence each others happiness way too much. I am trying to detach but it isnt really working so far. I will work on being the alpha I always was. My ego was too big and it was kind of shattered and now building myself up again.
Its sad to say because I love her want my family together and am attracted to her. I feel like more and more I should just let go and move on. Maybe I give it a couple months but with me paying support / alimony a couple months = $7,000 from me to her. Hard to have patience and not have negative emotions there.
I have been reading a lot and a cure for depression and anxiety is to stop trying to cure yoruself and go make someone else happy. Put the focus off your issues and towards building value and improving the lives of others. I dont know if this applies to W and I dont know if it will help me get attraction and respect back. But I want her to be happy and I want her to trust me. Am I making it easier to sleep with someone else at her own place, probably. But she is very attractive she could get invited to a guys place anytime. When we were both on dating apps she was getting dozens of matches.
So far my life outside of her has been work, workout, yoga, meditate, therapy, work on building a future career. I want to have fun. Thought of taking D3 to beach this weekend. Maybe Ill just do it, get an airbnb. Its my last weekend off for a while and I have the time and money. Screw what the W thinks or does for her birthday on the 12th. If she goes out and celebrates with OM fine. I need to do what makes me happy and that is getting away to have fun experiences with the people I love. At this point that is my daughter.
Getting to the beach with your daughter sounds like a great plan!
I know DB is about patience... But I am going to be paying for W to have a rental. Starting July 1 I am paying her $2325 per month. I think I am setting myself up for more pain if we dont divorce. Hoping for R when she gave it a 5% chance that she would want to work on the MR a few weeks ago in a couples therapy session.
We have been separated a year shes been living at her parents almost the whole time. She has spent almost no money which is about to change a lot. We have both been with other people. Yes I want to reconcile, I love her I miss her shes a great mom and wife when she was committed to me. But she has all the power in her hands to pursue me knowing Im avaibale and now Im paying her and I have to trust her.
I am really considering starting the divorce process unless she gives me a reason not to. I know she has feelings for OM, even though she says they dont see each other. I know we have lied to each other. She could easily still be lying. She doesnt want to work on our MR and hasnt wanted to in a year. She has said maybe she wants to work on it or I dont know but she has never actually actively worked on anything between us since she left.
Im struggling with this decision. I see the L tomorrow morning. If she wants me and our MR she can tell me she wants to work on it, right? If we divorce and she wants me back she can say so.... sometimes people get back together after divorce, right? Advice is appreciated.
Did, my wife would have given 0% chance 4 months ago. Think about it this way, she fell in love with you, then out of love with you. Why can't she fall in love with you again?