Okay AS,
WAW just replied and told me that she just got in her car and the ironically the song the band opened with that I mentioned was on the radio. Even funnier I had the same radio station too so I told her. She replied back just now with "Yes (and she named the station)"
Okay since my last post above we went back and forth with small talk. She mentioned how she's had trouble sleeping and I mentioned that it stinks I'm on day shift today after a late night concert. She replied with "ugh!" I replied with "I'll live" she replied with "Hope so. Lol" and o left it at that.
How'd I do with that exchange?
You did fine. I like the way you are the one to end it each time. Try to keep that up.
Thanks Steve. I'm always so uncertain how to reply, if I should reply, and what I should reply with. But yes, I like to be the one to end it. I value the opinions get here when it comes to that. For now that was it from her. I'm just starting to wonder what's going on with all this. I seem to be getting nowhere, as if I'm at a point where this is what it's going to be with her. Just friendly banter.
I seem to be getting nowhere, as if I'm at a point where this is what it's going to be with her. Just friendly banter.
I tried to tell you......
I know LH but I still don't think trying to get her in bed 3 weeks ago, or putting a move on her would have ended well. More likely, had I done that she probably wouldn't even be talking to me at all now...much less initiating all contact as she is now.
I don't know, does anyone else think I should just be aggressive with her and make a move on her to go on a date or get her in bed? Maybe I'm wrong but my gut still says that kind of thing would be a collosal mistake.
Why do you think it would be a mistake?
I know LH but I still don't think trying to get her in bed 3 weeks ago, or putting a move on her would have ended well. More likely, had I done that she probably wouldn't even be talking to me at all now...much less initiating all contact as she is now.
I don't know, does anyone else think I should just be aggressive with her and make a move on her to go on a date or get her in bed? Maybe I'm wrong but my gut still says that kind of thing would be a collosal mistake.
Are you satisfied with this current R with her being the status quo? Who made the first move when you first got together, you or her? Do you usually let the woman be the one to make the first move, or do you usually take the initiative?
If the answer to Q1 is yes, then do nothing. If no, then move to Q2 and 3. If the answers to these are you and you, then go for it. If the answer to Q2 and Q3 are her and the woman respectively, this is the new awesome ItHurts, so maybe you should 180 and make a move.
So really the only answer that matters is Q1. If you are good with have her be your new friend to hangout with, then do nothing. Otherwise maybe you should at a minimum have a discussion with her about where this is headed.
"I learned in the last 4 years that life is too short to sit around and wait. So where is this thing headed? Are you just wanting to be friends? If so, fine, we can continue to hangout as we have time and availability. If not, then what are you doing next -insert day-, would you like to go out on a date?"
If she says she just wants to be friends, then explain to her that you are going to move on with dating and if you get serious with someone, the friends thing will likely come to an end. I mean, who wants to get serious with someone that still hangs out with their EX?
My 2 cents
Give it 2 months then make a move if she hasnt
If you get friend zoned then just be friends and start dating someone else
She might even come along then but slow roll it
No expectations
It's early in this phase of the relationship... Don't think of it as a continuance of your M... Think of it as brand new... You are just getting to know someone... Enjoy it... Enjoy the mystery of it all... When you get married, all that new stuff in relationships will never be again... But in your case, you have an opportunity for all that giddy stuff with your ex-W... Be in the moment...
Well LH I feel like putting a move on her too soon would ruin any chance of R. At that point she' know I want her and usually that's the end of it. Plus a free posters here also said they felt making a move would be a bad idea. Maybe it's time for me to just try something with her and whatever happens happens.
Well Steve back when we first got together she came up to me and asked me if I found her attractive at all. I said yes and she said well why don't you ever pay any attention to me? Then we started hanging out and then eventually became a couple. She always said she did that because it bothered her how all these other guys were hitting on her and I never did. I should add we were aqaintances though a mutual friend back then...so we weren't total strangers but I didn't really talk to her. Once she came up to me that night though we obviously got closer. So that's how we first got together. She also was the intitiator for our first sexual encounter back then too. So that's how we got together.
[quote=artista]It's early in this phase of the relationship... Don't think of it as a continuance of your M... Think of it as brand new... You are just getting to know someone... Enjoy it... Enjoy the mystery of it all... When you get married, all that new stuff in relationships will never be again... But in your case, you have an opportunity for all that giddy stuff with your ex-W... Be in the moment... [/quoted]
So your opinion is I should just stay the current course then Arista? Just keep things as they are and see what develops?
She also was the intitiator for our first sexual encounter back then too. So that's how we got together.
So you put her on a pedestal, drop everything and run over to her when she calls even though she broke your heart and ended it with you. You admit she knows you want her. Yet you want her to make the first move??????
Be direct and state your intentions.
I'm in your camp ItHurts. I would play by the 80% rule and give back 80% of the time, energy, and emotion that XW gives. If she escalates you can give back more, but still 80% of the new level.
If you had no history and it was a girl you'd just met I'd agree with LH. For a woman that filed D and left the state years ago I would absolutely not take the lead, nor would I fall for the trap of getting hooked on the emotional attention she's offering until she was more direct about what beat she's dancing to.
There is no harm in the current situation. If she suddenly backs off that just means she is too flighty to have a relationship with anyway after all she's done in the past. And if she wants to be with ItHurts she'll make sure he knows when she's ready. After all they've been through if she wants him she's not going to disappear and wonder why he didn't get more assertive. They've got too much history for her to let it go over a stupid game. But the ball is definitely in her court. Frankly she'd need to prove to me that she'd changed as a person and was capable of a committed relationship before things got too serious anyway.
No, no LH...that was way back in the beginning 20 years ago. No, right now I don't think she has any idea. As far as she knows now I want to be single for awhile. She has no idea that I am hoping we can R at some point.
And no, how can you say I put her on a pedestal? That's ridiculous. I don't EVER text her first, I don't set up meetings with her at all (she does that,) I don't shower her with compliments or tell her how great she is
I'm sorry but there's no way in any way I put her on any pedastal. She seeks me out each and every time there's contact. So maybe I'm missing what you're saying here but how, in any way, can it be said I am putting her on a pedestal when the only interactions I ever have with her are those that are totally and completely initiated in full by her?
I'm in your camp ItHurts. I would play by the 80% rule and give back 80% of the time, energy, and emotion that XW gives. If she escalates you can give back more, but still 80% of the new level.
If you had no history and it was a girl you'd just met I'd agree with LH. For a woman that filed D and left the state years ago I would absolutely not take the lead, nor would I fall for the trap of getting hooked on the emotional attention she's offering until she was more direct about what beat she's dancing to.
There is no harm in the current situation. If she suddenly backs off that just means she is too flighty to have a relationship with anyway after all she's done in the past. And if she wants to be with ItHurts she'll make sure he knows when she's ready. After all they've been through if she wants him she's not going to disappear and wonder why he didn't get more assertive. They've got too much history for her to let it go over a stupid game. But the ball is definitely in her court. Frankly she'd need to prove to me that she'd changed as a person and was capable of a committed relationship before things got too serious anyway.
Yes Zues once again you nailed it. I know her well enough to know that if and when the time comes and she wants me...I will know.
Also absolutely true is what you said about LH...if this was a new girl then yes I like would have made a move awhile back. In this case doing anything like that seems to premature to me ror the exact reasons you stated.
ItHurts, just remember you are different people. There are so many women in my past that I found out years later were wanting me to ask them out, or kiss them, or make a first move. I was always the passive "Nice Guy", and missed out on many opportunities at potentially something special do that passivity. All of the girls I dated always were the aggressor. Including my W.
One of the 180s I need to consider is to be more assertive, even in my current MR. Once we seem to be on more solid footing, I need to step up and be the initiator of intimacy. And saying "Can we have sex?" is not what I am talking about.
These are
And no, how can you say I put her on a pedestal? That's ridiculous. I don't EVER text her first, I don't set up meetings with her at all (she does that,) I don't shower her with compliments or tell her how great she is
I'm sorry but there's no way in any way I put her on any pedastal.
Below are your words from a previous post.
Never in a million years would I have seen this day be a reality...except in dreams. Yet here I am, slowly reconnecting with WAW.
It's pretty obvious to me at this point she is pursuing...and that's hard for my forever-skeptic mind to wrap my head around...like I'm waiting for the floor to drop out from under me.
Well yes but just because I am hoping for R, which is really all those words of mine mean in essence; does not mean idolize her. Those words of mine simply mean I am happy to at least have a chance now. Before when she was in Florida I had no chance. I don't perceive those words to mean I am putting her on a pedestal...those words simply mean that something I was hoping for has happened...I am at least able to communicate with WAW in person now.
Yes Steve that makes sense and when the time comes where I feel it's time to make a move I certainly will. But as Arista said previously...take it as it comes for now...it's the early stages of this new relationship with WAW.
I'm with zues here. Just 6-7 weeks ago you ended your previous relationship. There is NO way XW contacted you the next day just to become friends. She want you as much as you want her. But she is probably just as insecure as you are. Neither of you want to get hurt here. She needs to be comfortable with you before she makes a proper move.
Slow and steady wins the race here.
Yes Btrow I too like Zues' line of thinking and it clearly most accurately describes my sitch. He obviously is familiar with my WAW since I started posting here.
As far as your remarks about WAW contacting me the day after my recent breakup with Mary... THAT is the biggest mystery to me to-date!! What was her motive here? Sure she wanted to get my photos back to me but I doubt she found them at that point. I think she had them for awhile before that contact. Surely if you want to just be friends with someone it doesn't matter whether they are in a relationship or not...so was it coincidence she happened to text me for the first time in 2 years 24 hours after my split with Mary?
But that is really the center of all of this...that initial contact from WAW that has led to this regular communication with her that she seems to want to maintain with me. Are her motives friendship with me ...she may say that...but I think she, like me, just wants to see where our new relationship goes.
Hi all,
Just an update. WAW just texted me to tell me she watched a documentary tonight on a musical artist that we liked. Not the same band as the concert Monday though. She also said we should work together on a writing project and write a book. I haven't replied yet. Any thoughts on what I should reply with? Zues? Arista?
Hi all,
Just an update. WAW just texted me to tell me she watched a documentary tonight on a musical artist that we liked. Not the same band as the concert Monday though. She also said we should work together on a writing project and write a book. I haven't replied yet. Any thoughts on what I should reply with? Zues? Arista?
How about:
"A book?!? LOL. Sounds kinda interesting. What would we write a book about? And more importantly, who's name would be listed first on the cover? :)"
This way you reply and keep it going, but you leave the ball in her court. Give her an opportunity to 'title the book'. Who knows, maybe give her an opportunity to think about last names a little.
Thoughts?
Love it! Even though we had no kids she kept my last name. I will reply now sir. Thank you Zues!
OH MAN! This was the best chat with her yet! We talked about some things that are bothering her and how she has been having trouble sleeping. I gave her some emotional support. Then once she said "Thanks I needed that tonight!
" I said you're welcome. Then I told her I had to go to the store and I would chat at her later. I told her I hope she sleeps. She sent back "lol okay be safe TTYl" and added a blushy smiley.
Early on in our chat, she did hint that she plans to spend Saturday planting in her garden. I could be wrong but I think in her head, she had decided she wants me there on Saturday. As I said I could be wrong...but I'm going to go ahead and predict she invited me over Saturday. We'll see.
As always thank you for the advice and I'll keep you updated.
So ...... Do you think she wants to be friends or has a romantic interest?
Well LH, that's the million dollar question. I am leaning towards romantic simply because of some points made by other posters above and also the fact that she is quite literally relentless now when it comes to contacting me. Just when I think a good amount of time will likely pass before I hear from her again...bang, she texts. It's at a point now where it's two or three times a week. Also this book project idea she has tells me she wants to spend a significant amount of time with me going forward.
I think, as others here have said, the impediment isn't feelings, but fear. But as Btrow said above, she didn't contact me about a photo album 24 hours after my split with Mary to simply be friends. That makes sense to me. Slow and steady will win this race and I think Btrow is right in with that.
One thing is for sure...WAW is always the one to initiate texting me... always...I never text her first. I have other "friends" who don't text me as much as WAW has been. I think things are starting to progress to the point where soon it will be time to take your advice and make my move. Not just yet...but soon. She clearly wants me in her life and by expressing interest in working on s lengthy project such as a book tells me she wants to spend significant more time with me. That's how is see it at this point anyway.
Here's what I would do. Next time she texts you invite her over to your place and see if she makes the effort to come see you.
I still say that a straightforward discussion with her about where this is heading and what she wants out of it should happen sooner rather than later. No sense is wasting time if she is just wanting to be friends. Not sure how you feel, but if I D my W, and she started wanting to be friends to this point I think I would tell her that I have plenty of friends, that I'd be interested in reconnecting if she is, but nothing less.
Of course, I am a little older than you so maybe my outlook on time is different than yours.
Well LH I thought about exactly that and was going to ask about that very thing here soon...that is, at what point can I be the initiator and ask her to do something. I'm quite sure if I was to ask her over she'd come...i think she's starting to want to see our/my cat too actually as she mentioned giving the cat a kiss for her recently.
Steve I think we are very close to that point now. I suspect within a couple more meetings with her the subject of R will come up. I don't think it's just yet, but within a month or so I think the conversation needs to be had. For no other reason than moving on with our romantic lives one way or another. She will have to understand though that if I get involved with someone else down the road, I'm not going to be able to hang out with her very much as I'm sure whomever I am with would understandably not be comfortable with me hanging with my ex wife whom I spent 20 years with. I certainly wouldn't be comfortable with that myself if a new girl was doing that with her ex.
I wouldn't bring up a R talk. Next time she reaches out, invite her over and ask her to pick up a bottle of wine. Make dinner and make your move. If she accepts you know where the R is headed and no need to put pressure on her. If she rebuffs you know where the R is headed and you can decide what you want to do from there.
I second LH. I wouldn't 'talk' about the R. Making a move is just much more assertive and you show your intentions. If she rebuffs you, you still got things going on in your life and you can make a decision on how you want to proceed.
Just thinking about sitting down and 'talking' about the R sounds very beta and needy to me. Kinda like 'hey, do you want to be with me, cuz I want to be with you'. If I was going to 'talk' to her I'd probably say something like - "So, are we gonna f#$k and take it to the next level or what?"... hehe! If she rebuffs, I'd finish my glass of wine and say in a very pleasant voice - "it was nice to reconnect and see you. I am heading upstairs and you can see yourself out when you're done. Good night".. lol
Hahaha good points guys! Yeah scratch the R talk...that sounds pitiful the way you guys worded it "Do you want to be with me?" LOL! Pitiful in retrospect.
Yeah, the way Maika worded it is pathetic. But you can still say you aren't looking to waste time so what it is you are looking for, in way that you are taking the bull by the horns and demanding no nonsense.
Again, I am at the point in life where I no longer beat around the bush. I spent my late teen and early 20s being led around by the nose by a girl that just wanted to be friends. If I could go back and kick the 20 yearold Steve85 in the behind I would and tell him to tell her to pee or get off the pot.
i don't think you should push for the R talk yet... and i also am not part of the group that thinks fear is holding her back... i don't see her as the Princess coming out of the castle and then running back in... i have never thought that... but i could be wrong... anyway--i am enjoying reading your exchanges with her... if you see her while she is gardening on Saturday, perhaps at some point, you can suggest a movie or a restaurant... and you can even suggest going together on an upcoming weeknight... see how she responds...
--artista
Thanks as always for all the great advice guys.
I just woke up and saw that WAW had texted me. She's asking if I want to hang out later today. Had a feeling this was coming the other night.
Great!
Can you suggest something to W?
Something fun?
As in W I was going to go to see a band at X I will pick you up at 8.
Or
Whatever is appropriate.
I fancy a walk on the waterfront and a beer, wear your walking shoes, I will pick you up at 7.
V
Hi V,
Sure I don't see any reason not to. I'll have to have a look at what bands are playing tonight or maybe I'll think of something else she'd likely enjoy.
Well it seems like she already had plans for our activities tonight. Before I could even ask her to do something she asked me if I want to help her make a fire in the fire pit and that she had tequila. So I think she had a plan on place already for us to hang by a fire.
Amazing! I am so rooting for you this really really helps me as I am in a dark spot of acceptance that my R is dead, but still love my W deeply. You should change your name to ItHelps!
Hey Ste7e,
I feel for you brother. The place you are at now is one of intense depair and constant pain. But please, please, PLEASE find comfort in knowing the future does get much better! I remember my agony well...and that's where my screen name came from in fact. But trust me when I tell you that one day that intense pain goes away. One day it will dawn on you that it just doesn't hurt anymore.
What you should do is GAL. That is the seed that blooms into your Independence from WAW. Let her do what she's going to do. I remember thinking back then that at least everyone else has their WAWs sonehwat local so there's always that chance to interact with them at some point. For me, mine took off and moved to Florida...which made my pain especially difficult to contend with because there was no way to even spend time with her.
So keep your chin up my friend. The future is amazing and one day you will be where I am where whatever happens happens...and it seems like once you reach that point... that's when the WAWs come around again. The beauty is by then you won't be so dependent on it. It will be something you want...not need. Be strong buddy...you'll make it!!
That was nicely put - gives hope for us who make our way into the light! Good luck with tequila on fire:)
Thanks GettinT! I really do want you guys suffering through the agony now to know I'm not just go giving lip service...that I truly mean what I am telling you. WAW and I were nearly inseparable for almost 20 years until one dark day, April 27, 2014, a date I will never forget... when my entire world, my entire life exploded. My desire to even live was gone. But eventually the sun shined on me again. I remember, for whatever reason, the song "Eye Of The Tiger" always made me feel better. Maybe you guys should set that tune on repeat. Even now when I hear that song I remember my terrible pain and smile to myself thinking of where I am now.
Now 4 year later, here's my WAW back again and relentless in her efforts to maintain contact and get me back in her life. In what capacity remains to be seen but as I told you guys...whatever the heck happens happens. Either way I will survive. You guys will get to this point too so ignore your thoughts of hopelessness as that's not how it's going to unfold for you guys!
You WILL make it and one day see I was right.
Well it seems like she already had plans for our activities tonight. Before I could even ask her to do something she asked me if I want to help her make a fire in the fire pit and that she had tequila. So I think she had a plan on place already for us to hang by a fire.
omgawd, i love it!!! maybe you can show up with a couple of new, really cool shot glasses to use by the fire tonight... Hubby and i are tequila drinkers... sippers and shooters... sounds fun!
p.s. cuidado... don't drink too much where either of you say things you may regret...
salud!
--artista
ItHurts- the evidence of success- you don't know how much it raises our spirit knowing you did what you did and now there is light at the end of the tunnel( and it is not an incoming freight train). Power to ya bruh!! Stay Well!!
None the less tell her that's what you want to do see a Band of your choice.....
Next time
V
Thank you guys! Yes and the best part is, as I mentioned when she first started contacting me again, is that I am in control. Meaning I don't feel at her mercy per se in terms of the threat of living without her. In other words, she could tell me to buzz off and never speak to her again and although I'd be disappointed, I wouldn't shrivel up into a ball and cry myself to unconsciousness as I did in the months after the bomb went off.
It's so liberating to feel this way and that's what I want newbies to know... that this feeling will be theirs one day too no matter how desperate you feel now.
Hey guys,
Well here's the update from hanging out with WAW last night.
Everything went well and as planned. We made the fire, had many laughs, reminisced, etc and got really drunk.
We stayed up very late. A few items of interest happened. When we were sitting outside in the front step, she would every so often put her head on my shoulder I noticed overall that she acted like my "wife" at certain times. As far as what she calls me now, my full name is apparently the norm again as that's all she used all night long. For those not in the know my WAW stopped calling me by my pet name back in 2014. She now exclusively uses my pet name...which is my full name.
She got sick later in the night so I helped her out. She was holding my hand when she was sick. Then she said I should stay over. So we sat down to watch T.V. and she stretched her legs across me...prefacing it with a disclaimer of course saying she wants to stretch because she was tired from moving around bags of mulch in her garden all day. I responded with "Oh boy, I've seen this movie before" in reference to her legs being on me. You see, back when we first met she put her legs across me the same way and it was always a talking point throughout our marriage. So that's why I replied with that remark.
So I massaged her feet for her and we both passed out on the couch. We were very drunk as I said.
Some hours later she woke me up and told me to stretch out and she went to her bed which is like 5 feet away. We both passed out again...still very drunk.
Then this morning we were both hungover badly. I went pee and was going back to sleep on the couch, feeling like garbage, and she called out from her bed and said "I'm not calling you in here for sex or anything but you can come lay in here with me." So I did, kind of laughing to myself at what she said. She seemed to like the fact I was laying in her bed next to her.
Later, when we felt better her Mom stopped by for a quick visit so I got to see my ex-MIL for a bit. After she left WAW said something like, "Man she must be wondering WTF is going on!" So I stayed a couple hours longer and she mentioned how she wants to plan a trip to Vegas. She said I don't know who I would go with. I said I would go. She seemed excited and started looking for a list of things she wants to do in Vegas to show me.
During the course of the night we talked about our former sex life a bit, our marriage of course and we talked about what we did wrong, etc but the latter certainly didn't monopolize our visit in any way. She is keeping the guise of friendship still it appears but my gut makes me sense there's A LOT more things going on in her head regarding me than simply being my pal. Just a gut feeling that she is thinking more than she's letting on in some capacity.
She said something the night before by the fire at one point about next time I come over. I can't remember exactly how that transitioned into this but I told her as fun as it is to hang out; that we probably wouldn't be able to do this if we're in some way involved with someone else. She basically agreed but made it clear that she is taking a break from dating anyway.
So this morning we're out sitting on the front step again and she again lays her head on my shoulder. I didn't make a big deal of it in any way though. She casually touched me throughout my time there.
Then the last hour I was there she went back to looking for the Vegas list she was looking for an hour before. Strangely as she was looking for it she said "I'd love to invite you but I don't think that's a good idea." I was nonchalant about it and just said that's fine. Then she found the list and showed it to me. After that she then looked at me, almost for approval, and said " Yeah if you went with me it would be weird I'd by then you were with somebody or I was." I nonchalantly just kind of blew it off mainly because I don't really care if she invites me or not, the trip would be a ways off from now anyway.
She mentioned also that Jim, that dude she hangs with on Fridays, called to see if she wanted to hang last night too. wAW said no way. One night a week of Jim is enough. He's kind of a downer and has a lot of problems. I love him and he's a dear childhood friend but I can only take him in doses.
So it was interesting to say the least and I had a great time. She showed frequent affection, talked more about us working together again on a project perhaps, and at times acting as she did as my wife.
So I have to reflect on the last 24 hours and decipher what this latest experience means. My feeling is that she is not convinced she only wants friendship from me, but that for now it's working. Maybe I'm wrong but I think there's more going on in her head regarding me than she's letting on. That's my immediate feeling here looking back on the last 24 hours.
IH= WOW that was some progress report- Man you sound like a pro with your off the cuff - non committed responses. Almost like it did not matter either way. Wish I was in my relationship where you are. Nevertheless you have given ALL of us HOPE! Keep on and stay Well!!
Happy to hear that LoneWlf! Yes as I said yesterday, that's what makes these meetings with WAW so great...I don't expect anything from her and further, she knows that. I don't care either way. Life will go on without her just as well as it did the 4 years I haven't seen her. The fact that my story gives so many here hope they desperately need is actually more important to me than whether WAW and I ever get back together. Of course I hope we can, but not afraid if we don't. I'll have to see what others have to say about the update. It was a really fun night though all the way around.
Oh and one thing I forgot to mention...when we hugged to say goodbye she said I love you. I reciprocated and left.
Oh Jeez, sorry guys but a couple other things I forgot to post. She mentioned at one point that she had gone to our old apartment parking lot where we lived for 17 years and just hung out there for a few minutes at some point. It's unclear whether this was before or after we reconnected however. This stuck out to me because even though I didn't tell her...I had done the same thing!
Also worth mentioning is that she stated there was an event coming up that her and I shared in common and that even if we are with other people she still wants to go with only me.
Sorry to have to make several posts here but I spent an especially long time with WAW this time and, of course, we got really drunk as I mentioned so I forgot to include these items in my first post about our visit.
So I am confused. Are you or not going to Vegas with her?
Other than that, yeah she seems to be interested in being more than friends, but she is kind of fighting against it almost. Seems really strange, almost like she is binary about the whole thing. Maybe you are right to be patient instead of forcing the issue.
Hi Steve, no my friend she apparently liked the idea of me going to Vegas and then an hour later decided it wasn't a good idea because we may be with other people by then. That tells me she has something going on in her head. I mean maybe she onky wants a friendship and that's fine so long as we are able to hang out with no significant others. Understandably if both or either of us is with someone else then clearly hanging out would have to stop. She acknowledged this last night too and then followed it up with "It doesn't matter anyway as I'm taking a break from dating." She had claimed she is tired of the disappointments.
So even though my gut is telling me is conflicted internally in regards to me...that is just a feeling...nothing factual to back that up. Just some of the things she did give me this feeling...laying on my shoilder a couple times, sprawling her legs over me on the couch, running my back when I was coughing a couple times, and calling me into her bed this morning.
So I don't know if she's interested in me or not. There's evidence to support either theory. So on truth, in spite of all the time she spends with me now; I really have no idea what's in her heqd. She could be taking it slow with me or maybe she does just want friendship. That's the dilemma I am faves with my friend. Maybe others can see something I can't in all this.
Ugh... I think you might be, at least partially, in the friend zone... The Vegas thing makes me that... You oughta pull back some...you should not have said you would go without her actually asking you... Make her do the work...
Thanks Arista, yeah I thought it strange that she would say "I don't know who I could go with" and thought she was dropping a hint. One of her issues with our marriage was that I didn't want to travel enough so I thought maybe that was a test.
No matter, I think the next time she contacts me to hang out I'm going to have other plans. I'm shutting this show down for awhile with her and going a bit dark again. I mean I won't be a jerk and go total no contact, and I will reply to her texts and all...but there will be no more hanging out for awhile. Don't you think that's my best plan of action now? It's summer and I want to have some fun. She can hang out with someone else instead for awhile. Then she'll realize there's no one like me and she will probably seek me out even more. For now I'm going to back off, do my own thing, and make getting me over there much harder for her from now on. If I'm just a friend to her, then that drops her to the bottom of the totem pole as far as my priorities go now. She has a lot of work to do. I'm losing interest and patience with her very quickly now anyway so I'm going to stay away for awhile and date other people, hang with my friends, and enjoy my summer. If she wants me then she needs to work. Otherwise she can go back to her parade of loser men who will never compare to my awesomeness anyway. Good luck with that parade WAW, it's worked out well for you so far hasn't it LOL?!
You need picnic at the Lighthouse!
And to be more proactive instead of letting her lead. I see no strong masculinity in your recent responses. More placating and doing joint things when she leads or you fall into it.
Please lead.
V
Thanks V, can you give me an example? Do you mean that I should have initiated a couple of these meet ups instead of waiting for her to text and invite me?
Duh!
Did you read my post earlier on I would like to.......
In this I don't mean set the date, I mean run it.
V
Oh yes okay, using the band as an example...should I just randomly text her first then and ask her to come see a band with me or are you saying that next time she initiates a meet up I should tell her what we're doing? Like this?
WAW: Do you want to hang out Saturday?
Me; Sure I'm going to see Band X at Sam's Bar. I'll pick you up at 8.
I don't know for sure but I think she may be fishing, searching for a response from you. For you to show your interest?
I'm not a mind reader but she reached out to you...maybe she's wanting you to step up. Hoping you will take the lead from now.
I know it's difficult when we've been left behind, we want them to take control but a conversation needs to be had at some point. And I think it may have to come from you. I mean she's shown her interest in many ways...least of all asking you to sleep in her bed!
Women are difficult things sometimes, they don't always come out with whats on their minds...they hedge around hoping you'll pick it up.
Good luck!
Interesting Caz. I do see what you mean as far as her pursuing and yes the bed thing was just weird. I was perfectly fine on the couch, not like I said some about being uncomfortable, so I don't know why she wanted me in there. My personal thought is that she wanted to see how it felt for me to be next to her again. Who knows?
She keeps subtly addressing us as friends and that's the only thing that keeps me from being a bit more aggressive. But as you said, her actions seem to show feelings more than friendship. So she's really baffling. As one posted said a few pages back, she didn't contact me 24 hours after I was newly single to be friends. It's easy to believe that but WAW really has shown no inclination towards anything romantic...unless I am just dense and not seeing something obvious here.
Her leaning on my shoulder, talking about how sex has been a let down compared to me, and some other things are the items that confuse me. For now I have to ponder now I'm going to reply when her next invite comes, which I suspect will be forthcoming soon. Leaning towards declining even though I'm sure I won't really want to.
IH, what Caz is saying is what I've been trying to say. This is another form of limbo you are in and the only way out I can see is to sit her down and just ask her what she is looking for. You can be explicit about what you want at the same time. Due to the dynamic between the two of you it is going to be awkward for things to naturally develop like they would with someone new.
Like I said, I have a few years on you. As you get closer to 50 you realize how precious time is and that you don't want to be sitting on the sidelines watching life pass you by. Also, as I've said before if not in this thread in other threads, I had a longtime game of tug-of-war with a girl that still occasionally contacts me to try to make she can still set a hook. It is a AWFUL place to be with someone you care about so I would suggest avoiding that type of relationship at all costs. (Over the years there was a lot of head on shoulder, legs across me, laying in bed together. If I could do it over in 1990 I would have said "this is what I want, and if you want anything less than that then this ends now."
If you don't want to decline her invite...then don't decline it...
Go, have fun and be authentic. If, as you say, you don't mind how this plays out, then you have nothing to lose. You may as well enjoy each other's company in the mean time.
Oh yes okay, using the band as an example...should I just randomly text her first then and ask her to come see a band with me or are you saying that next time she initiates a meet up I should tell her what we're doing? Like this?
WAW: Do you want to hang out Saturday?
Me; Sure I'm going to see Band X at Sam's Bar. I'll pick you up at 8.
Yes! A date next time she initiates. You drive, less alcohol.
Still too early for R talks, you aren't even dating yet.
V
Thanks Steve. You know I think you're into something when you speak of our dynamic. this really can only be treated as a "new" relationship to a degree but then there's just too much familiarity between us for it to progress as a new relationship would. Maybe what I should do is next time we are hanging out I will just have to tell her that we need to figure out where this is going. We simply can't continue to acknowledge that our "friendship" has a limited life span (meaning until either of us gets with someone else) yet still see each other in what is becoming near-weekly occurrences. It makes no sense. So I will tell her she needs to decide where she wants this to go long term because right now it's like we're friends until either of us gets with someone else. It's ridiculous really. unfortunately it will sound like an ultimatum but there's no point in nurturing just a friendship that has an expiration date on it. Basically if you are still of the mindset that you never want to get back together then perhaps we should cut this out and just move on with our lives because right now the road we're on is a dead end street because the friendship could end abruptly at any time.
Yeah Caz I'm not totally decided that I'm going to decline...just tossing the idea around in my head a bit.
Why decline?
Why create ultimatums?
Makes no sense to me.
V
Yeah V that's what I will do then. Take control and make it a date. I'd she declines then I've essentially gotten the same answer my proposal above would get me. Time to kick this dog along a bit i think.
Why decline?
Why create ultimatums?
Makes no sense to me.
V
Well I was thinking if declining because I don't see this going anywhere. She had me at her place, overnight, and absolutely nothing happened. To me that feels like my cue to exit. That was the opportunity I feel. Of course now I'm second guessing myself on that after hearing from you guys here. I'm going to try and set up an actual date...where we go to dinner and out to see a band or something. We're not just sitting at her house again next time.
You drank too much (I warned you to be careful)... You offered to go to Vegas, she pushed back... She turned down the concert. I don't think she is waiting for you to take initiative... I would step back for now... Give her opportunity to want you as more than a friend...
Mis dos centavos...
--artista
Thanks Arista but can you see how I am getting all different and oftentimes contradictory advice here. Some say I should take initiative and ask her on a date and some say I should back off. Also confusing is how does WAW possibly think that rejecting me for the concert, and then rejecting the Vegas idea is in ANY way supposed to prompt me to take initiative about our relationship? Isn't asking her to a concert doing exactly that? Isn't offering to go to Vegas when she was clearly hinting at such doing exactly that? Just trying to sort out the confusion here because I feel like some of the advice here is contradictory.
Specifically I guess what I'm asking is what exactly do you mean by back off? I don't really do anything to back off from...she has initiated every sinhle thing. In fact I don't text her at all ever. She always finds a reason to text me. Maybe I should change my screen name to "It'sConfusing" LOL!
Artista and I are saying the similiar things in different ways.
Going to her place getting drunk was not a great idea. Saying let's go watch a band, not drink and I will drop you off early is a good idea. Nor is going away on holiday or for a long weekend.
I am not saying invite W out at all. If and when the opportunity arises don't go round get drunk and sleep on her couch. Go bowling, watch a film, see a band, don't drink and finish early. Be the leader in it.
OK, is that clearer?
V
Thanks Arista but can you see how I am getting all different and oftentimes contradictory advice here.
I don't read this.
Some say I should take initiative and ask her on a date and some say I should back off.
Read my post above.
Also confusing is how does WAW possibly think that rejecting me for the concert, and then rejecting the Vegas idea is in ANY way supposed to prompt me to take initiative about our relationship?
It isn't supposed to do that.
Isn't asking her to a concert doing exactly that?
No, not when the alternative is getting drunk over a long evening and sleeping on her couch. I think we did say go do something else instead.
Isn't offering to go to Vegas when she was clearly hinting at such doing exactly that? Just trying to sort out the confusion here because I feel like some of the advice here is contradictory.
It isn't.
Specifically I guess what I'm asking is what exactly do you mean by back off? I don't really do anything to back off from...she has initiated every sinhle thing.
Exactly! To be clear when going round isn't moving you forward. STOP! Do something else.
In fact I don't text her at all ever. She always finds a reason to text me. Maybe I should change my screen name to "It'sConfusing" LOL!
---------------------
Is this clear?
V
IH, I agree 100% with everything you just said. It is confusing. And I think it is because she is confused. Women are much more guided by their feelings, and likely her feelings are conflicted. Let me go back to compare it to my ex-GF that was so hot and cold it was confusing:
There were times when I would go dark on her. I'd not call or contact her for weeks, even months. Finally she would contact me and she would start asking "why are haven't you called me?" I'd here things like "I miss you so much!" "You are like a drug and I am going through withdrawals!" There were even times she would hint that she wanted some physicality.
So we would set up a meeting. As soon as we got together her feelings would change. Maybe just knowing she could call and set something up was enough. Or maybe I didn't look as good as she had conjured up in her memory. Or maybe it was because she was seeing someone else and her morals kicked in. I have no idea why her feelings would change, but she would retreat.
I remember one time she called me in the fall, and she was all over me talking about how she missed me, and how she was going to break up with her BF and wanted to be with me. And she still thinks about how we kissed all the time and wanted that again. 2 hour local toll (very expensive) call. I didn't hear back from her for 2 weeks. When she called back 2 weeks later it was very formal. I asked her if she broke up with her BF and she said "no, I decided to try to make it work with him." She just acted like the previous call never happened. I told myself I would never fall for that again.
The next fall, on cue, another call just like the first one. This time I wasn't biting. I pretty much ignored every thing she said related to all of the sentimental stuff. Finally she said "I want to come visit you tonight." I said: "Well I have a bunch of errands to run." She said "well call me later, so I know what time to come over." I rolled my eyes, said ok and hung up. I never called her back.
Years later she mentioned that day, and she said: "You never called me back. After we hung up I shaved my legs and everything." The implication was clear, she wanted to come over and, uh, you know.
Here is the thing, I guarantee you, no matter her intentions, if she had come to my apartment that night her feelings would have changed after getting there and it would have been arms length between us all night.
I don't know why some women play that game. But it is terrible to be on the receiving end of it. Let me ask you this, after you talk to her or hang out with her, do you ever feel worse than before you talked or hung out with her? After I would go a while without seeing or talking to her, I thought I wanted to see or talk to her. But afterward I'd always feel bad, like I wish I hadn't see or talked to her.
If you feel that way afterward that could be a bad sign, in my estimation.
Thanks V. So to be clear and concise. If and when she contacts me to hang out the conversation should go something like this then?
WAW: Hey want to hang out tonight?
Me:Sure. How about we go to dinner and then to see Band X at Sam's Bar? I'll pick you up at 8. Sound good?
Then if she declines what do I do? If she says she wants to hang out at her house again? If she says yes then mission accomplished.
Hey Steve,
Well inwoudln say I feel bad after leaving her because I am happy to have the chance for her to see me in person and how I've changed. I dress better, look better and wear cologne now. I mention the cologne because WAW mentioned I smelled nice the other night and I forgot to mention that.
She also commented on how I'm not pale as I was. I got a tan from working outside last week. Anyway, I don't feel bad after leaving her...just a little disappointed. But once I get back home I get back into the swing of things reminding myself that WAW isn't done with me and that there will be a next time...meaning I fully expect her to initiate contact yet again very soon. So that also prevents me from feeling bad. It's nice to know there will be a next time unlike when she was in Florida.
But yeah, your GF you speak of sounds quite similar to my WAW. I just want to know if I should just start dating other people or keep devoting my romantic energies on WAW. The impatient part of me wants to say to hell with WAW and just forget about it...but the other part of me reminds me that WAW is essentially the one making contact every time and that must be for a reason. And that part of me finds it hard to believe it's just to be pals. But as you say, she sends a different name message too. She's a pain in the you know what my friend!
If she doesn't want to go then you do. See the band go GAL and have a great time.
Picnic at the Lighthouse.
Date if you want to, you are a free man.
V
Just an update. Woke up to a text from WAW. It says "You feeling better I hope." I haven't replied yet.
Oh and thanks a ton V for the detailed advice.
Didn't have a chance to post earlier today but replied to her with "Hey yeah thanks! I was fine once I got home and showered and went to work. Just had to work that tequila out LOL!" She replied with "Ok good lol." I didn't reply again and left it at that.
Yes... I disagree with those telling you to take further initiative... And you have taken initiative. Concert and Vegas... Go do something with someone else... You overstayed Saturday... Let her miss you...
Thanks Arista. Now what about the texts she sends all the time though? I should still answer them no? Like the one she sent this afternoon. You'd think text would have come yesterday not two days later LOL! Whie the heck has a hangover for nearly three days LOL?!
I think you need to speak to a coach. You're in a unique position here compared to most.
You separated four years ago...your W or EX is pursuing you fairly consistently and you're at a loss how to deal with it. You don't want to push too hard, incase she bolts...yet you need to show strong leadership.
You say you don't mind her decision either way but you're on here telling us about her every interaction no matter how small...you are very invested in this.
The advice here I think has mostly been to get to know her again, go on 'dates' initiated by her (I'm in the minority as I believe it wouldn't have the sky fall in if you proposed a date...but as I say...a coach would know better...), no drunken sessions, show your leadership side, let it unfold in a natural way as if you'd met for the first time. And if you have something to say...answer those texts.
If you have no expectations, the journey could be a beautiful one. If you have expectations then all you're going to be looking for is those that go unmet.
My advice is to speak to a professional.
Hi ItHurts, Only been reading recently but was just thinking and want to ask you, what do you want?
DO you want a new relationship with your ex?
Do you want a friendship?
I see alot of you questioning what she wants, but what do you want?
Thank you for the advice guys, it means a lot.
Yes Caz I suppose I am in the exact quandary you describe. Part of me wants to cut to the chase and just talk to her about our future. But I am also impatient by nature and I worry that this tendency of mine to be impatient, even in other areas of my life, will taint my good decision making here. Slow and steady wins this race as one person said here...or go for the jugular and just ask her out and if she refuses then I know where I stand and I could start limiting contact with her.
Which brings me to Si07's post. What do I want? Well obviously I want to R...I have since the day she left. However when I say I don't care what happens either way, I guess that's a poor choice of words. I do care of course; but what I mean is I won't be heartbroken if it doesn't happen solely because I'm not fearful of having to live without her either. That part is a luxury I didn't enjoy when she first left. So it's not that I don't care, I'm just not afraid of a negative end result.
Also, I do update everything that happens here also because it helps newbies who are suffering through those awful post-bomb months. It gives them hope that anything can happen in the future. If me posting here helps these folks deal with that awful pain and despair a bit better, as many have posted that it does, that is also why I update as things happen. So my reasons are twofold really. For example, sure it's not a big update that WAW texted me a sentence yesterday saying she hopes I feel better; but to a newbie who would cut their arm off for their WAW to text them anything at all...it might make a difference. This plus I want to be sure you guys know everything...you never know if there's a nuggetbif info to be had from what seems like a very trivial and insignificant update from me.
Personally, I think you are playing it safe, showing her the best parts of you but not generating attraction or tension. I did this many times in the past, showing how great a guy you can be then watching her go off with someone else. My coach (female) has helped me understand this alot. When you play it safe, you are generally not generating attraction.
How about trying 1 of these 2 ways:
1. I would tell her that if you continue hanging out together alone, it's under the intention of getting to know each other in the direction of a relationship. If she is not interested and only she's you as a friend, then you know what to do and it's your choice.
2. If you don't want to go that strong so soon, invite her to things you are already doing. If he says no, what does it matter, you are already doing it. Also, invite her to things you are doing as a group, but tell her she is only invited if she brings bundles of energy. This way it's less 'date' like and more about how she fits into the new life you have made over the past 4 years for you.
I would treat her like any other potential girlfriend, I learnt through my coach that we often play it more safe with the girls we are interested in than the ones we are not. The flip side is we are not staying true to ourselves and give off a different vibe.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy seeing your posts and updates, no matter how small the exchange. It wasn't a dig or gripe at how much you post...I can just see how much it means to you.
In which case I wouldn't want you to miss out on what could be a fresh start due to ill advised or confusing advice. This is a forum and the people are great with wonderful support but at the end of the day, they are only voicing their opinions.
We're all rooting for you both, it would be lovely to see another success story unfold so many years down the line.
Well WAW just texted me about 5 minutes ago just sharing a funny picture. I suppose I will just reply with an LOL unless you guys think I should do otherwise. Thanks again also for your invaluable insight...you are all such great people here!!
Ok, quick question before you reply.. If you got back lol would it feel someone was adding anything.. Lol is the safe, boring response.
Use something about the picture to tease, challenge, generate a feeling within her.
Hmmm not a bad idea! I haven't replied yet. So funny she texted as we're talking about her here. Maybe her ears are ringing. Yeah I generally wait a bit to reply to see what you all have to say first. This is getting to be a daily thing with her now. Funny because two months bagi she said she didn't think it would be healthy for either of us to talk everyday. Guess she threw her health consciousness out the window LOL!
IH,
If you are not in the friend zone you definitely are going to put yourself in it.
You remind me of a poster chris19 who came to the board asking advice on every text.
When she reaches out assume she wants to see you and make a date. Invite her over and cook dinner for her and have her pick up a bottle of wine. She has to make an effort here. Remember she dumped you. She has to earn another chance.
Your posts are frustrating because so many people here would love to be in your situation and you are going to blow it based on fear.
Well WAW just texted me about 5 minutes ago just sharing a funny picture. I suppose I will just reply with an LOL unless you guys think I should do otherwise. Thanks again also for your invaluable insight...you are all such great people here!!
Find something pithy about the picture and text back.
Ask doodler he would Know!
V
I know LH but I think asking her to a concert to see a band she lcves was pretty much doing that. She declined. Like Arista said, I have taken initiative a couple times.
Well V the pic is sexual in nature as it's a meme of penis candles with a funny saying LOL!! So I can take this ball and run in several different directions so I need to be careful LOL! There's a couple wise ass things I want to say about it but pondering if I should say something funny but sexual to her. After all, she sent me a pic of this nature on her own LOL! Makes me wonder why she thought of me in terms of such subject matter LOL! Hmmmmmm...
Yeah, I think she has been hinting at things all along. I am sorry but when a woman invites you into bed with her, even with the preface of "not for sex or anything" I think that is a clear green light to take things to a physical level.
This picture as you describe it just reinforces my belief in what I just said.
P.S. Along these lines, years ago, my XGF I mentioned before had me come over to her BF's house. He was out of town and she wanted me to hang out with her as she house sat. About 1am, I said "Well I need to go." She begged me to stay the night. I declined. I just didn't feel comfortable staying over in another guy's house with HIS GF.
Several years later she said that she had plans for me that night. Again, I am not sure I entirely believe it due to our history, but I think she asked you to stay the night, even with some liquid encouragement, for a reason.
It hurts,
Come on man! Your ExW is throwing herself at you and you are still DBing her. I think you have passed DB. You DBed her already and did a great job.
She invited you over for tequila and then let you sleep over. She is showing clears signs of wanting more than just a friendship. But you are behaving like you want her as a friend.(we know you want more, but what do you think she is perceiving from your actions?) She text you and you wait to text her back. Why? Why are you waiting, that's a DBing technique not a recon one. She's reaching for you and you aren't moving towards her. If you keep up what you are doing in my opinion she might give up.
You are waiting for her to tell you she wants to be with you (outright), well what woman really says that. Not many. They tell you through their actions.
She left you and now you are waiting on her to tell you she wants to be back with you.
I think you need to ask her if she wants to be with you, because it's what you want. If she says no, then she was going to say no anyway. She has had 4 years to decide if she wanted to be back in your life and wanting you back in hers. If she didn't want you back in her life, she wouldn't be around now.
If we go off what you post, and we go off your W actions, which is a huge philsophy around here, then your W actions is speaking wanting you back in her life.
Pls stop DBing your W and treat her like a person you want to date. She wants you, start acting like you want her.
Well Steve my WAW is a perpetually confusing one. She was always up front and forward when it came to sex so I would think she would have made it more obvious if that was her intent. But maybe not...that's the problem here, it's all speculation. She could be waiting for me to make a move, or not. That's the issue here and that's why people here seem to be on one side or the other in terms of advice. For now I need to reply to this meme with something. I have to come up with something awesome.
IH, I see a man waiting on the woman to lead.. that's not a good look by the way. If the picture is sexual in nature respond in kind, stand by it and own it. It's like you are waiting for permission...
Be the action man and own it..
Maybe she wants you to initiate maybe that was always the problem?
Also maybe she just wants sex now and take it one day at a time and see where it goes not a full fledged R which maybe she thinks is what you want?
Sorry a bunch of mindreading
Just also add, if you are man with options are you going to be afraid of loosing one by being forward?
I have learnt that the 'friend zone' is something men but themselves into. If you really want a relationship, you have to be willing to loose the friendship.
It almost sounds if you are afraid of rejection..
I think Joejoe gave me a revelation. You know what? I am still DBing her come to think of it. Mainly because I don't see her as throwing herself at me but at this point I guess it's hard to dispute. It's just that she is always sure to say things that reference us as two people who failed at a romantic relationship and are friends now. Sure I don't expect a woman to lead me to make a move...but I also don't expect her to lead me not to either. And I get a dose of both from her which confuses me. It's also the reason I think people have such polar opposite views on how I should handle this. She sends mixed signals constantly. But yes, you are right. I am still DBing her out of habit I guess. This site and the book were my lifeline for so long during that awful time in 2014 that I feel secure DBing I guess. I perceive it like a protection for me that keeps me strong because I wouldn't be where I am today without this site and my book.
Well Steve my WAW is a perpetually confusing one. She was always up front and forward when it came to sex so I would think she would have made it more obvious if that was her intent. But maybe not...that's the problem here, it's all speculation. She could be waiting for me to make a move, or not. That's the issue here and that's why people here seem to be on one side or the other in terms of advice. For now I need to reply to this meme with something. I have to come up with something awesome.
This is not my arena as dirty text pictures are a little outside my comfort zone, but I would be tempted, in your shoes to find a picture of a cake with vaginas on top. LOL