Hi guys, you got another newbie here unfortunately. My verbal abuse made 2 people who were the love of each other's lives go on the outs. She is going to file Friday. I'll post the emails I sent to my priest and therapist. And be happy to hear any advice on saving my marriage.
Hi (therapist),
I just wanted to email you some things that we didn't get to in the meeting Friday. If you have time to read it and/or respond or for a phone call that would be great and I will be happy to pay you for your time.
I was unsure if I should say some things because I don't want to hurt my wife, I want to save my marriage. It seems difficult but I am never going to give up. We last met on Friday 4/13, just a few days ago. The prior Friday, 4/6/18/, was our first meeting. I told you that there was someone else for her. That night, I was hoping she'd come home but that did not happen. After a while I decided to check out this other guy's apartment to make sure her car wasn't there. It was there, so I decided to confront the situation because I had known for a couple of weeks and just couldn't take it anymore. I drove around to a lot of bars and eventually found her at this guy's apartment a little after midnight. She didn't want to leave and it took me an hour to get her out of there. I didn't fight the guy or yell at her.
My phone was still on the call with her sister, who I had been talking to off and on that night. I guess I didn't hang up as I (literally) ran in there. I had also been talking to her mom and dad as well, so they knew I was trying to confront this. After 20 or 30 minutes of listening in, wife's sister called her mom and conferenced her in. I mention this because wife is upset that they know about it. We drove home and didn't say anything the whole way. After a while, she called me in the room to yell at me. Both of them denied that "anything happened", and as time has passed I believe this may be true physically but it was a romantic involvement and she was invested emotionally.
From what I've read, this is something that has happened a million times before. A woman doesn't feel loved and respected at home and she looks elsewhere. That's the way of the world and I only blame myself for not working harder to be a better husband in the first place. Well, the following day(Saturday 4/7/18), wife tells me to come in the bedroom since I was not sleeping in the bed with her. She was still mad and basically yelling at me so I left the room after a while. I spoke with her parents and sister and everyone was pretty distraught. I also went to see Fr. B as well, and left wife at home. She came to where I was a swapped out cars. I left her at home with no keys, on advice from her parents. She got an Uber to my car then swapped my car for hers. It was a very crazy day.
After I left Fr. B's office, I called her and we calmed down enough to get lunch. We had a very long lunch and talked in the parking lot for a couple hours before leaving around 5 PM. We both ended back at our home in suburbs with her in the bedroom and me in the living room. She asked me to come back to the bedroom eventually. It became her yelling at me again. Then she wanted to listen to a phone call between me and her dad. My phone records calls until I delete them, fyi. It was painful to listen to and relive, so I told her eventually I don't want to keep listening to it and that I was leaving the room. I told her that they know everything that's happened, which is/was true, and that she needed to accept it. As I was leaving she told me to stop and come back. She cried for 20 minutes and I just tried to comfort her. Then she wanted me to hold her, hug her, etc. That lead to her kissing me, then sex. We had sex twice Saturday and once Sunday (4/8/18) morning, I slept in the bed, and got to hold her. Sunday (4/8/18) was the first happy day I've had since Mar 12, when she told me about this.
Later Sunday, we talked some and the conversation got to the point where I said, "if I'm so disgusting and you hate me so much, why would you kiss me and make love?". Her response "was that she was just using me to feel better". She has said this before about the times when she asked me to hold her, and to come home to be with her. This may be something she says to hurt me, and there may be more to it as well.
Fast forward to Wednesday night, 4/11/18. Wifr has been monitoring my calls and texts, and yelling at me for talking to her sister, mom, and dad. I am laying in bed and decide I want to see hers too, so I registered on ATT and looks at who she's been calling. I figure out that she is still talking to this guy, and of course I freak out. She also had his name on the online statement listed as one of her female friends. She says this was a coincidence, and maybe that is so. Either way, her mom had seen calls from "Lexi" before and thought it was nothing. Now we knew better and I texted her parent's around midnight, with my discovery. I also went to drive by this guy's house and called him as well. I had been trying to catch up with the guy again to make it clear that I didn't want him talking to my wife. I wasn't going to be violent, but I needed to be clear about it. I also confronted wife about it before I left to pay this guy a visit. Obviously this guy and I just yelled at each other. When I got back w8fe said she was filing for divorce the next day.
On Thursday (4/12/18) evening, me and wife were talking, I made the proposal to her that I would sign the divorce papers right now and she can turn them in whenever IF she gave our marriage an honest try. We discussed that for a few minutes and then agreed to go forward with that plan. We spent an hour or two printing and filling documents, got to the end, and realized our plan was dumb because signatures need to be notarized. The rest of the night was uneventful, but then she did decide to come to counseling with me for the second session which was the first time you met her. I can't remember what she said her reason for coming was when you asked, but this is some backstory. After we left your office, I asked her if she wanted to get lunch. She asked if I wanted to come home from work early and go to xxxxx's, a restaurant in xxxxx's xxxx that we like. We did that and came home. Dinner went as good as you could expect, given our situation. She told me stories about old boyfriends and we both got a couple of laughs out of that. Friday night she started sighing loud and often, and I tried to get her to go to the movies or do something to get out of the house and break the boredom. I asked about every 20 or 30 minutes but it got nowhere. We did go for a run together before it got dark.
Saturday morning (4/14/18), we were laying in bed and she says "How long do I/we have to try?". I asked her what a real try was, and she said the "she didn't feel it" yesterday. I tried to make it clear that she's not going to feel butterflies right away in this situation, maybe I'm the wrong person to tell her that. I went to her parent's house to get her dad's dog, xxx, who wife loves. I wanted to cheer her up, and I don't like her laying in bed alone all day and all night. They had no idea of anything that had happened since Thursday. They didn't know that she and I went to counseling or out to eat or anything, and she had been ignoring their calls. She also told me that she didn't want me talking to them either. So when I was getting the dog, I didn't tell them anything.
Fast forward to Saturday (4/14/18), afternoon, she is trying to get me to agree to go to a bank to sign divorce papers and get them notarized on Monday. She also tries to coerce me into signing it by telling me if I say yes that she will have sex with me. I get up and say no thanks. She gives up and then tells me to get back in bed for sex, but that it's "just sex" and that I shouldn't read into it. On Sunday (4/15/18) morning, I get dressed and am ready to go to church and run a couple of errands to try to get my mind off of things. Once again, she tells me not to go, that she wants to do something. I agree to do something with her. She finds a journal entry she wrote on her 26th birthday March 9, 2017. She just turned 27 this year. This journal entry is a heartfelt one because she describes her love for me by saying that she freezes up when she tries to describe it she freezes up. The entry also states that: - she is so in love with him even during the rough times we fight.
- that she thinks we fight a lot (more than normal), but she want so badly for us not to fight
- that what she wrote doesn't sound good, but that husband is a very good and kind man deep down
- that I have shown her how sweet I am, but even though she know's I am a good man, that she has a grudge towards me in the bedroom and that maybe it is b/c of something that happened before us - that xxxx husbad is the love of my life
- that maybe I hold a grudge against her for the bedroom issue and that we keep making the grudge go round and round. She wonders if this problem is "her problem" from what happened before us and if she is starting it somehow.
So we are sitting at dinner and she asks me "what are you thinking?". So I told her that I read her letter, and I got very emotional. How can she show me this letter today, knowing the contents, knowing how it would affect me. She showed me another journal entry a while back where she wrote that "she loves me and always will". How do I reconcile these things she wrote, her asking me to stay, and her other actions, with her saying she wants to divorce. I want to save my marriage and make my wife happy more than anything. I need to find a way. If you have time for a phone call today or this week, or to chat in person, or to respond to this email please let me know. I am very desperate and would appreciate any help you can give us here.
Thank you in advance.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Here is the other email I can post to give more insight.
I've got it on my calendar. Can you offer any advice on getting wife to attend? I don't know that there is a way, but you may have seen more desperate situations turn around.
Last weekend, her friend came in town. Wife asked me to leave the house for the weekend. You and I talked about it a little. On Friday, she was driving me to get my car from a repair shop and pulled into the bank parking lot to try to get me to sign divorce papers. I told her no way and that I'd call a cab before I sat in the car while she went in there. So she decided to take me to my car, and I asked if she still "doesn't believe in divorce". She says she still doesn't believe in divorce, and said so on Saturday and Sunday. So I guess it's just me she doesn't believe in or is scared of committing to.
I think I screwed up Saturday night. I was in bed in the master, and wife wanted me to get out so her and her friend could sleep there. I made a petty argument into an hour long fight by not giving her what she wanted there. I feel like that ruined the weekend and was a step back. And now I feel like going to the lake with her dad was a major mistake, because even though it may not be wrong, she didn't like it. And I was worried that she wouldn't but her dad told me it was ok to do.
I also hinted that'd I'd tell her friend about wife's affair, to which wife almost cried. I think this was a mistake - again, it would hurt her if I did tell someone. Of course, all of these friends are advising her without knowing the whole story and that aggravates me.
Now, the last two weekends have been negative steps backwards. 2 weeks ago we hung out on Friday and Sunday. That is a lot better than this. wife went to go file Friday, but something was wrong on the papers so it didn't happen. I imagine she is going to try again this Friday (she is off Fridays). I am obviously panicked. She still thinks I am trying to control her and even the score. She also thinks I am trying to make her look bad because of me telling her family. I don't want to control her, I really would just like to be with her. And I filled out the papers b/c she told me she would try. I know she doesn't think things will change, and she is scared to "waste" her life with a controlling person (me).
She mentioned going to her parents to stay yesterday afternoon, and I ended up telling her that it is her house too and that I was going to give her some room and comfort of home tonight (this was on the advice of my best man from the wedding). I said I'd either stay at my dad's or stay in the front bedroom out of her way. I feel really bad about my actions the last two weekends - she is right, why don't I just give her the easy things that she wants? I am so dumb. I told her I don't like staying at the house alone, so I'd go to my dad's anyways if she wasn't there - is that a mistake? On the plus side, as she was leaving to go shopping or whatever she ended up doing last night, she did say she'd let me know if she was staying at the house or not, which she ended up doing, but unfortunately she was making sure I was staying at my dad's house. She also said goodbye twice and a "thank you". I had to ask what she was thanking me for, she said for "being nice". That felt good, but I don't think that will change her mind. I probably need about a hundred little things like that in a row to change her mind.
I mentioned to you talking to my friend "soandso", who is married to one of her friends that was in our wedding. I don't think she would like me doing that. But I think this friend may tell her to try. Obviously I would like that. I want help. I left your office so positive Thursday, but that seemed to change rather quickly. I'm scared to tell wife how I feel too much. I'm scared to say "if you don't believe in divorce, then work on our marriage!" I told her this can be fixed, her dad said the same. But she is not buying that. I know there are no magic words.
For a while, I was trying to do something nice for her every day - is this too much? I did make her a card last week, but I haven't given it to her yet. I texted her this morning to have a good day and she responded "thanks you too". I think I need to pour on the love this week, while giving her space when she asks for it. She always said in the past that she wants to feel needed in these type of situations - not ignored during a breakup. I was going to make her dinner tonight and just leave it there for her. And not be at the house when she gets home. Is this a bad idea? I read something called the "Last Resort Technique" by Michelle Weiner Davis that advised backing off to increase your chance of your spouse becoming more interested in you. She advises not pursuing or chasing and implies that doing so is "supplying your spouse with a reason" to leave. I don't think this is the remedy for my situation. To me that is just letting things die.
I think I married an exceptional woman, she clearly expects the best for herself. I've seen and read of people getting through way tougher situations, and I think she's just not going to lower the bar.
I know I wrote a book here, sorry. Feel free to call me if you get a chance. I just need to get some real advice. Thank you very much for all of your help so far.
I have the Divorce Remedy book as well. And the 37 rules printed out. I am reading and doing all I can. Still in daily contact with in laws.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Ovr,
This is going to be the hardest journey of your life. The concepts here save people lives.
Read and research the approaches and techniques here as much as you can. When the Vets give you advice please read and reread what they say. Sandi, 25, AS, ACC, V, will chime in with Marriage and life saving advice. Take head. The others here will be your cheerleaders and provide great perspectives.
So, IMO you need to back off of your W. You are tryimg to control her and your Sitch way too much. Please go read the acronym page, there are alot used on this forum.
Your W is WW/lost. Your W seems to come from a high moral background and she cares what her family thinks. Stop talking to her family about you'll Sitch. You have to stop begging and pleading with your W.
She's trying to force the big D on you. Stop standing in her way. Start working on yourself and become a person only a fool would leave.
Get out with some friends. It's called GAL(get a life) in the forum. You have to start detaching. But please read up on detachment it has to be done with love and not hate nad revenge.
180 what you W says she didnt like about you doing the M. But remember 180s are for you.
Lastly stop bring up or talking a out your M, R, or D.(Marriage, Relationship or Divorce.) Just live your life and Don't force your W to Do anything she dont want to do.
Its called holding a person hostage when we force them or try to keep them in something they dont want to be in. I'm not saying not to be mean, but in your W mine, she probably feels like shes being held hostage, get out of her way.
J
Keep posting.
I hear your advice, and I appreciate it too. What is the reason to stop talking to her family? And should I ignore them even if they call me? We are very close.
I guess I'm trying to force her too much. Last Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday she said "she doesn't believe in divorce". Ok so what gives?
And can you tell me why I should stop standing in her way on the divorce? I mean that honestly I don't understand why that is best for the situation, not that I think you are clueless.
What your W is going through is very common. Likely she doesn't even know what she wants at this point. She knows she wants to be happy but isn't sure what quill accomplish that. So she cycles day by day.
Obviously you've made a lot of mistakes since this all started. Talking to others about your sitch etc. So start by stopping continuing in those mistakes. And stop skipping church for her! She is temp taking to see if she still controls you!
Good luck and buckle in for a bumpy ride.
You can continue talking to her family, but stop telling your W what she has done. Let them fine out from her or another source. You telling them looks vindictive.
You keep asking her donshe believe in D, and she keeps telling no. But her actions are telling yes. So your question to her about believing in D is for you and not her. You are trying to hold her to her words, she is just saving face because she uttered those words. There's a saying on this forum that goes "believe not of what they and hald of what they do.". Your W obviously believe in D if she is trying to get one from you, please stop asking that question. It makes you look weak and unattractive.
A lot of advice on this forum is going to go against what feels right. When I say dont stand her way, I mean do help her out in the process of D. Do your homework about what the laws entitled you too. But don't ask her not to stop the D and don't ask her about D at all. Try and keep the word oit of your vocab except for on here or with a trusted friend.
Also just because she is saying she wants a D, doesn't mean she will follow thru,(believing in half of what they do). But if you keep asking her questions and standing in her way she will move in that direction faster. Do things that Will pull her back towards you.
Do what works, what's attractive and confident. This statement is hard to grasp, when dealing with your W, ask yourself those three things above, will my statement or action work to pull her closer or dither away? Will I look attractive or unattractive? Will I look confident, or weak?
Read Sandi 37 rules as often as possible.
Patience is the key. You have to be patience yourself and this process. The more you post and read, the more info and advice you will recieve and the better you will learn about doing 180s, GAL and detaching and you will learn the application better as well.
Gammer Corrections to above post.
You can continue talking to her family, but stop telling your W family what she has done. Let them fine out from her or another source. You telling them looks vindictive.
You keep asking her does she believe in D, and she keeps telling you no. But her actions are telling you yes. So your question to her about believing in D is for you and not her. You are trying to hold her to her words, she is just saving face because she uttered those words. There's a saying on this forum that goes "believe not of what they and hald of what they do.". Your W obviously believe in D if she is trying to get one from you, please stop asking that question. It makes you look weak and unattractive.
A lot of advice on this forum is going to go against what feels right. When I say dont stand in her way, I mean dont help her out in the process of getting a D. Do your homework about what the laws entitled you too. But don't ask her not to stop the D and don't ask her about D at all. Try and keep the word out of your vocab except for on here or with a trusted friend.
Also just because she is saying she wants a D, doesn't mean she will follow thru,(believing in half of what they do). But if you keep asking her questions and standing in her way she will move in that direction faster. Do things that Will pull her back towards you.
Do what works, what's attractive and confident. This statement is hard to grasp, when dealing with your W, ask yourself those three things above, will my statement or action work to pull her closer or push her further away? Will I look attractive or unattractive? Will I look confident, or weak?
Read Sandi 37 rules as often as possible. And then reread them again.
Patience is the key. You have to be patience with yourself and this process. The more you post and read, the more info and advice you will recieve and the better you will learn about doing 180s, GAL and detaching and you will learn How to apply them better as well.
Some more of my thoughts:
Yes you can keep talking to her family, but change your messaging from "Hey, she is doing this, help me keep her married to me." to "W is going through a tough period, please continue to love and support no matter what she decides."
Your goal, today and for the foreseeable future is to remove all pressure from your wife to stay. I guarantee you that if you pressure her to stay, have others put pressure on your W to stay, that it will push her out the door and in short order.
Remove all pressure. YOU HAVE TO LET HER GO TO GET HER BACK. All of this, as joejoe referred to, is going to feel counter intuitive. It is going to feel like the exact opposite of what you should be doing. But trust us, this approach gives you the best chance (no guarantees) of saving your marriage.
For some context about my sitch and how it turned around fairly quickly, please read my post at the top of this page:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2780850&page=10Your sitch struck me as having some similarities with my situation. I will go back and read your initials posts more thoroughly though.
Okay just went back and read your sitch from beginning to end. Wow.
Lots of mistakes as I've mentioned. You've been letting your emotions control you. And yes you are still trying to control her AND the situation. You can't.
I found it ironic that you say in your second email "I know their are no magic words" after 2 emails full of nothing but words. So the first thing you need to do is STOP talking about your R with your W. If she brings it up, validate her feelings but don't prolong the discussion. Read the link Cadet sent you on validation. Study it and be ready to validate her feelings if and when she starts a R discussion.
Second, you have to detach. It is hard and difficult, but your constant pressure right now is only driving her further away.
REMEMBER: Believe nothing she says and only half of what she does.
Why she went to counseling with you is easy! You said you'd sign the D papers if she tried. Her going to counseling is her way of showing you she is "trying". Don't fall for it. In fact, you should tell her that you want to attend counseling alone for now. If she insists then you can let her come, but let it be her decision. Do not beg, or plead.
I like the text "Have a nice day". Small, NON MR discussions are what you want right now. I like to call them talk charges. Call her randomly with a 30-60 second story. Then end it with "anyway, just thought that was interesting. Got to go now, bye" and hangup. NO MR TALK!!!
You have to stop thinking that your sitch is not right for DBing. You are at a critical point. She is pushing for you to sign the D papers. My advice on this is to talk to a lawyer. D is a legal process. She is hoping you make it as easier for her as possible. Don't. Talk to a lawyer, usually the initial consultation is free. Next time signing the D papers comes up mention that you will need to discuss with your lawyer first. This will begin to pop her fantasy bubble about an "easy" divorce.
You said: "I think I married an exceptional woman, she clearly expects the best for herself. I've seen and read of people getting through way tougher situations, and I think she's just not going to lower the bar."
NOTE: She is not the same person you married. WAWs/WWs have a change in their thinking. If you try to apply the methods you used to originally win her, you will drive her away. Space. Time. Detachment. This is what she needs from you now. She knows you are against the D. STOP REMINDING HER OF THAT.
What are you doing for GAL? Seriously, your entire last 2-3 weeks has been centered around her. Going and getting her dad's dog to cheer her up?!? Seriously? Way too much time and effort. Making dinner just for her?!? Dude, grab your testicles back and be a little tougher. That doesn't mean you can't do nice things. "I made dinner for myself. I left the leftovers for you. Enjoy." YOU FIRST, and the nice thing was for her second. See? "I had to go to the store for some stuff I needed, so I picked you up the drink you like." You first, but then a nice thing for her. See?
Finally, on the sex. If her affair is only emotional at this point she was most likely thinking of him while doing you. Sorry if that hurts, but it is true. I am in the camp of "I'd rather her make love to me thinking of him, than to make love to him thinking of me." Some here disagree with that. However, I agree with her "it is just sex, don't read anything into it!"
Finally, watch how much she manipulates you. "If you sign the D papers I'll have sex with you." That is a level of manipulation that borders on evil. DO NOT PUT ANYTHING PAST HER AT THIS POINT. Let me repeat: BELIEVE NOTHING SHE SAYS AND ONLY HALF OF WHAT SHE DOES.
Your assignment: Let go, detach. Continue to 180 (stop doing the things that you feel got you here). GAL!! DO THIS! Start having a life outside of her and the house.
Finally, forgive yourself. Yes you have responsibility in this sitch, but you are the one willing to work on things. Remember that and stop beating yourself up!
Good luck and hang in there.
Hello and welcome!
I drove around to a lot of bars and eventually found her at this guy's apartment a little after midnight. She didn't want to leave and it took me an hour to get her out of there. I didn't fight the guy or yell at her.
OK well having only read this so far, I'm already getting the sense that you are yet another "nice guy". After you read DB/ DR, read No More Mister Nice Guy and see if any of it rings true. Brother I would have told her not to come home except to get her crap out of MY house. She has lost respect for you and this kind of kowtowing is only making it worse.
My phone was still on the call with her sister, who I had been talking to off and on that night. I guess I didn't hang up as I (literally) ran in there. I had also been talking to her mom and dad as well, so they knew I was trying to confront this.
Full STOP right there. Discontinue all conversations with friends and relatives about this. Talk to your therapist, talk it out here, talk to only those friends who have no ties to your W. But DO NOT talk to mutual friends and family as she will perceive that as you "rallying the troops" against her, and it will only drive her farther away. Plus it just looks desperate and needy on your part.
A woman doesn't feel loved and respected at home and she looks elsewhere.
That may be true, but worse- she has ZERO respect for you as a man.
We both ended back at our home in suburbs with her in the bedroom and me in the living room.
You've got to stop this kind of subservient behavior right away. YOU stay in the bedroom. YOU stay in the bed. It is the throne of the house. She can stay there with you, or she can sleep somewhere else, that's her choice. But YOU are NOT leaving.
That lead to her kissing me, then sex.
Don't get your hopes up, she's just cake-eating. You've heard "have your cake and eat it too? WAS's often want to lead a double life of having a fling with OM while still having a home life. That is NOT commitment.
I also went to drive by this guy's house and called him as well. I had been trying to catch up with the guy again to make it clear that I didn't want him talking to my wife.
Do not confront OM. The more you try to drive them apart the more they will get together, they will just go deeper undercover with their activities.
but then she did decide to come to counseling with me for the second session which was the first time you met her.
Again, don't be hopeful. She just did that to cross it off her "things I tried to save the M but only proved it was over" list.
She also tries to coerce me into signing it by telling me if I say yes that she will have sex with me.
AMAZING!!!!! Offers you sex for signing D papers? Wow, I have never heard that one before and I've been here a long time!
How do I reconcile these things she wrote, her asking me to stay, and her other actions, with her saying she wants to divorce.
Welcome to WAS land! Up is down, left is right, right is wrong, wrong is good, etc. etc.
I want to save my marriage and make my wife happy more than anything.
STOP ALL PRESSURE. No convos with her, no convos with her family, no convos with mutual friends. NO RELATIONSHIP TALKS, EVER.
When she speaks, you listen and validate. Nothing more. Don't explain/ reason/ bed/ plead/ negotiate, argue/ agree/ disagree.
BE A MAN. Work out, dress better, get a tan, be mysterious, quit pursuing her.
Read DB/ DR over and over again, you'll continue to learn new things each time you do. Don't mix a bunch of different approaches (very common mistake with newer people).
Good luck and keep posting.
Just caught up on the rest of the posts and see you got some great advice from JoeJoe and Steve. I ended up repeating some of what they said but hopefully that'll help drive the points home.
One thing I sense from your communications with your counselor is that right now you think there's some magic reset pad, and if only you push the right combination of buttons then everything will go back to normal. I'm sorry, but that is not how it works. What you had is dead and gone for good. As hard as it is to believe, it's over. Now that doesn't mean you won't recon, you very well might. But recon is all about a NEW relationship with her, not going back to what you had.
It's interesting that in your first post you said "My verbal abuse made 2 people who were the love of each other's lives go on the outs." and you have not said one more word about that. If you were verbally abusive then that is a HUGE problem. If your W is trying to escape an abusive relationship then you've got a LOT of work to do before you can earn her trust back. We're talking months and months of hard work.
Can you offer any advice on getting wife to attend?
Yeah, don't. She will only go to "prove" it's over. Quit giving her ammunition!
I think I screwed up Saturday night. I was in bed in the master, and wife wanted me to get out so her and her friend could sleep there. I made a petty argument into an hour long fight by not giving her what she wanted there. I feel like that ruined the weekend and was a step back. And now I feel like going to the lake with her dad was a major mistake, because even though it may not be wrong, she didn't like it. And I was worried that she wouldn't but her dad told me it was ok to do.
Quit worrying that every little thing will make her angry. She's much, much farther gone than you realize.
I also hinted that'd I'd tell her friend about wife's affair, to which wife almost cried. I think this was a mistake - again, it would hurt her if I did tell someone.
Wow that's some ugly passive/aggressive stuff there. Read that book I mentioned.
She still thinks I am trying to control her and even the score. She also thinks I am trying to make her look bad because of me telling her family.
She is right on both counts.
I don't want to control her, I really would just like to be with her.
That IS control. Because that's what YOU want. What about what she wants? She doesn't want to be with you, so let her go and try to become the man she DOES want to be with.
I ended up telling her that it is her house too and that I was going to give her some room and comfort of home tonight (this was on the advice of my best man from the wedding). I said I'd either stay at my dad's or stay in the front bedroom out of her way
= NOT BEING A MAN
I mentioned to you talking to my friend "soandso", who is married to one of her friends that was in our wedding. I don't think she would like me doing that. But I think this friend may tell her to try.
(slaps forehead)
For a while, I was trying to do something nice for her every day - is this too much?
That would have been great 6 months or a year ago. Now it just looks weak, and she'll think "too little too late".
I did make her a card last week, but I haven't given it to her yet.
Write everything out in great detail, then burn it. DO NOT give it to her.
I think I need to pour on the love this week
Nope.
She always said in the past that she wants to feel needed in these type of situations - not ignored during a breakup.
Again, 6 months or a year ago maybe. Now? No.
I was going to make her dinner tonight and just leave it there for her. And not be at the house when she gets home. Is this a bad idea?
Very.
I read something called the "Last Resort Technique" by Michelle Weiner Davis that advised backing off to increase your chance of your spouse becoming more interested in you. She advises not pursuing or chasing and implies that doing so is "supplying your spouse with a reason" to leave. I don't think this is the remedy for my situation. To me that is just letting things die.
Wow, I can't believe you posted that here of all places. Look, DB'ing is counter-intuitive. Your mind is telling you to pursue her with all your heart, pour out love on her, show her how much you care. That is the WRONG thing to do. That works in a healthy relationship where the couple is recovering from a minor fight or argument. NOT when a spouse goes full-on WAS. She is NOT the person you knew anymore. A switch in her has flipped. What you think will work will do more harm than good. Embrace DB'ing. Calm yourself. Stop the panicky behavior, that's not attractive to her. You have loads of TIME, use it wisely.
Everything AS said is spot on. Also, and this will become a common theme, STOP TRYING TO CONTROL HER!! The sooner you do that the sooner you might have some hope of her returning to the MR. Everything you've done or thought to do up to now is trying to control her or the situation. That is the best way to lose her and fast.
You cannot love her and pursue her into returning the MR. That is how you won her while dating years ago. But now you have a lot of baggage and that technique will no longer work.
Finally, even if you do everything you can, and do it right, she still might D you. You have to prepare yourself for that eventuality.
IF I sound like a broken record, then you are right.
Finally, try to get your mind off of things. That is what GAL is for. Dwelling on this 24/7 will cause you do more harm than good.
Thanks for all the replies everyone. I did read each one.
Here's an update, the OM is back in the picture. I drove by his parents house early AM a couple days ago, apparently he stays there even though he has a place of his own. But he stopped staying there after I confronted it a month ago. WAW had her vehicle hidden around the block.
I decided I was going to not fight or argue. But I needed our SUV bc I decided [censored] this I'm going to get my fun car and go have some fun this weekend. So I swapped all the stuff and took our nice vehicle that she normally drives. And turned off my location on my phone so she can't eavesdrop. Eventually she came to see her car gone and mine there.
I didn't realize her wallet was still in there. She started calling a ton and texting a ton saying how she needed it. I gave 2 brief responses about how I'd get it back to her and she continued to call and text like crazy. I decided I didn't even want to see her so I dropped the wallet at her folks house in the middle of the day and let them know where it was. If I took it home to her I'd have to see her and that'd be a fight. Also I just thought screw it it's not my problem.
No contact since the brief text response a couple days ago. She tried calling yesterday morning and I ignored. I'm frustrated more than angry and upset and I am getting a life. Went out for Cinco and had a decent weekend. I don't know if I want to go home or stay away a couple more days. I will not utter the D word to her again .
I wish I didn't tell her sister and dad what happened Friday. I should have let theme find out on their own but I was freaking out. I do think I am getting to a spot mentally where i can stop freaking out or control it I mean. I am sleeping 8 hours again.
On the plus side she is still trying to hurt me, saying mean things. But I do think the nice gestures are really over.
Today is my bday...I hate bday too but this is the first one I actually wish we were celebrating.
Just caught up on the rest of the posts and see you got some great advice from JoeJoe and Steve. I ended up repeating some of what they said but hopefully that'll help drive the points home.
One thing I sense from your communications with your counselor is that right now you think there's some magic reset pad, and if only you push the right combination of buttons then everything will go back to normal. I'm sorry, but that is not how it works. What you had is dead and gone for good. As hard as it is to believe, it's over. Now that doesn't mean you won't recon, you very well might. But recon is all about a NEW relationship with her, not going back to what you had.
It's interesting that in your first post you said "My verbal abuse made 2 people who were the love of each other's lives go on the outs." and you have not said one more word about that. If you were verbally abusive then that is a HUGE problem. If your W is trying to escape an abusive relationship then you've got a LOT of work to do before you can earn her trust back. We're talking months and months of hard work.
Can you offer any advice on getting wife to attend?
Yeah, don't. She will only go to "prove" it's over. Quit giving her ammunition!
I think I screwed up Saturday night. I was in bed in the master, and wife wanted me to get out so her and her friend could sleep there. I made a petty argument into an hour long fight by not giving her what she wanted there. I feel like that ruined the weekend and was a step back. And now I feel like going to the lake with her dad was a major mistake, because even though it may not be wrong, she didn't like it. And I was worried that she wouldn't but her dad told me it was ok to do.
Quit worrying that every little thing will make her angry. She's much, much farther gone than you realize.
I also hinted that'd I'd tell her friend about wife's affair, to which wife almost cried. I think this was a mistake - again, it would hurt her if I did tell someone.
Wow that's some ugly passive/aggressive stuff there. Read that book I mentioned.
She still thinks I am trying to control her and even the score. She also thinks I am trying to make her look bad because of me telling her family.
She is right on both counts.
I don't want to control her, I really would just like to be with her.
That IS control. Because that's what YOU want. What about what she wants? She doesn't want to be with you, so let her go and try to become the man she DOES want to be with.
I ended up telling her that it is her house too and that I was going to give her some room and comfort of home tonight (this was on the advice of my best man from the wedding). I said I'd either stay at my dad's or stay in the front bedroom out of her way
= NOT BEING A MAN
I mentioned to you talking to my friend "soandso", who is married to one of her friends that was in our wedding. I don't think she would like me doing that. But I think this friend may tell her to try.
(slaps forehead)
For a while, I was trying to do something nice for her every day - is this too much?
That would have been great 6 months or a year ago. Now it just looks weak, and she'll think "too little too late".
I did make her a card last week, but I haven't given it to her yet.
Write everything out in great detail, then burn it. DO NOT give it to her.
I think I need to pour on the love this week
Nope.
She always said in the past that she wants to feel needed in these type of situations - not ignored during a breakup.
Again, 6 months or a year ago maybe. Now? No.
I was going to make her dinner tonight and just leave it there for her. And not be at the house when she gets home. Is this a bad idea?
Very.
I read something called the "Last Resort Technique" by Michelle Weiner Davis that advised backing off to increase your chance of your spouse becoming more interested in you. She advises not pursuing or chasing and implies that doing so is "supplying your spouse with a reason" to leave. I don't think this is the remedy for my situation. To me that is just letting things die.
Wow, I can't believe you posted that here of all places. Look, DB'ing is counter-intuitive. Your mind is telling you to pursue her with all your heart, pour out love on her, show her how much you care. That is the WRONG thing to do. That works in a healthy relationship where the couple is recovering from a minor fight or argument. NOT when a spouse goes full-on WAS. She is NOT the person you knew anymore. A switch in her has flipped. What you think will work will do more harm than good. Embrace DB'ing. Calm yourself. Stop the panicky behavior, that's not attractive to her. You have loads of TIME, use it wisely.
Thankd for your response. I think this approach may be a little harsh in some areas. I am no expert. But giving her some space in the bedroom seems like an OK thing there. I don't want to kick her out of the bedroom or just because of her EA. I want to be with her still. So telling her to get her stuff and leave the house, just to prove my manliness, doesn't seem to be the right approach.
I've been speaking with my sister mainly, texting my therapist some. Spent the weekend on NC after her Friday freaking of 20+ calls and 20+ texts and then having her sister call me abut the wallet left in the car. I dropped it at her parents house after learning she was home bc I neededy space and I knew seeing her would cause a fight.
The GAL thing is starting to come along. I'm also rememberin some validating phrases so that I can just accept what is being said and stop pursuing. I realize this hasn't worked so my efforts there are ended. I am trying to ease the pressure.
She did call Saturday AM but I did not answer. No further calls since.
Want to give another update to you all. I am implementing the LRT. No pursuit. I am GAL. Last night I went for a run and hung out with my mom. Not all MR talk either. Mainly explaining my mindset and and the LRT.
I got home at about 930 pm and WAW was sitting on the couch. I took a shower and went to bed. Didn't go back to her to talk. Had to get some shoes out of our master closet this am, and she asked me if I got her text. I hadn't seen it and said no. She didn't hear and asked why I was ignoring her. So I restated no, I'm just getting shoes and she asked about car keys. I answered briefly and shut the door as I did.
My mindset is definitely to get off of what doesn't work and to ease off the pressure. I am GAL every day. I may talk to her folks, but just to let them know what I'm doing (maybe not a good idea). I'd prefer they contact me though, so maybe it'll be a while before I have contact with them.
I am heading back out of town this weekend for some fun and fishing. I'm hoping her mental journey brings her back, but learning to give up trying to control that. My sister and marriage counselor have been big on helping me get my mind wrapped around my controlling tendencies.
Thanks to you all too. I know it tooK a bit of reading and rereading to absorb some info.
Want to give another update to you all. I am implementing the LRT. No pursuit. I am GAL. Last night I went for a run and hung out with my mom. Not all MR talk either. Mainly explaining my mindset and and the LRT.
I got home at about 930 pm and WAW was sitting on the couch. I took a shower and went to bed. Didn't go back to her to talk. Had to get some shoes out of our master closet this am, and she asked me if I got her text. I hadn't seen it and said no. She didn't hear and asked why I was ignoring her. So I restated no, I'm just getting shoes and she asked about car keys. I answered briefly and shut the door as I did.
My mindset is definitely to get off of what doesn't work and to ease off the pressure. I am GAL every day. I may talk to her folks, but just to let them know what I'm doing (maybe not a good idea). I'd prefer they contact me though, so maybe it'll be a while before I have contact with them.
I am heading back out of town this weekend for some fun and fishing. I'm hoping her mental journey brings her back, but learning to give up trying to control that. My sister and marriage counselor have been big on helping me get my mind wrapped around my controlling tendencies.
Thanks to you all too. I know it tooK a bit of reading and rereading to absorb some info.
My only advice is to be careful to not be passive aggressive. Ignoring her, not giving her your full attention when she speaks, etc is not detachment. Detachment is listening. Validating. Listening. Validating. It gets monotonous. If you are bored while she is talking then you are probably doing it right, but don't let it show.
For those of us that have struggled with Nice Guy Syndrome in the past, it can be difficult to validate in non-passive aggressive ways. But to do detachment and validation right you have to avoid that at all costs.
Want to give another update to you all. I am implementing the LRT. No pursuit. I am GAL. Last night I went for a run and hung out with my mom. Not all MR talk either. Mainly explaining my mindset and and the LRT.
I got home at about 930 pm and WAW was sitting on the couch. I took a shower and went to bed. Didn't go back to her to talk. Had to get some shoes out of our master closet this am, and she asked me if I got her text. I hadn't seen it and said no. She didn't hear and asked why I was ignoring her. So I restated no, I'm just getting shoes and she asked about car keys. I answered briefly and shut the door as I did.
My mindset is definitely to get off of what doesn't work and to ease off the pressure. I am GAL every day. I may talk to her folks, but just to let them know what I'm doing (maybe not a good idea). I'd prefer they contact me though, so maybe it'll be a while before I have contact with them.
I am heading back out of town this weekend for some fun and fishing. I'm hoping her mental journey brings her back, but learning to give up trying to control that. My sister and marriage counselor have been big on helping me get my mind wrapped around my controlling tendencies.
Thanks to you all too. I know it tooK a bit of reading and rereading to absorb some info.
My only advice is to be careful to not be passive aggressive. Ignoring her, not giving her your full attention when she speaks, etc is not detachment. Detachment is listening. Validating. Listening. Validating. It gets monotonous. If you are bored while she is talking then you are probably doing it right, but don't let it show.
For those of us that have struggled with Nice Guy Syndrome in the past, it can be difficult to validate in non-passive aggressive ways. But to do detachment and validation right you have to avoid that at all costs.
Thank you for that. I have been cautioned against doing that by my sister and am learning to be aware of it. I don't want to act like that at a critical time.
Actually I don't want to act like that ever, just to offer a clarification.
Also, there's a crap load of dishes and messes from her last weekend. Do I clean that up? Or just let her take care of it?
Also, there's a crap load of dishes and messes from her last weekend. Do I clean that up? Or just let her take care of it?
No way can I leave dishes that long. So I think it is okay to clean them up.
Also, there's a crap load of dishes and messes from her last weekend. Do I clean that up? Or just let her take care of it?
No way can I leave dishes that long. So I think it is okay to clean them up.
Is she testing me to see if she can make me my bitch?
Or is she testing me to see if I'll complain and make a stink over it? I certainly would have 6 months ago.
Or maybe she is just feeling like garbage.
Id take those dishes load them in a trash bag and throw them away. Then I kick her out of the house like NOW! Let her go live in her new found loves apartment.
Take back your dignity!!
Seriously do not do the dishes!
This was a big thing in my house where I was the fixer STOP FIXING
Id take those dishes load them in a trash bag and throw them away. Then I kick her out of the house like NOW! Let her go live in her new found loves apartment.
Take back your dignity!!
Is this going to bring her back to MR? I'd lie to hear other people comment on this advice pls.
Thanks for all replies.
"Or is she testing me to see if I'll complain and make a stink over it? I certainly would have 6 months ago."
This. When you 180 and start making positive changes, your wife won't trust them. She will test it to see. My wife has, in my opinion, done various things purposely to see if I would get hyper-critical and verbally degrading again.
Consistency is the key. For me it was either complain or do them myself. I haven't always done the latter, but I've been consistent in NOT doing the former. I was the same way. I'd point out everything that hadn't been getting done around the house. The few weeks before BD she had just shutdown and no longer cared when I was being passive-aggressive about it (loudly doing what needed to be done even complaining as I did it ("I'm the only one that sweeps this floor!" "Apparently no one else cares if every last dish is dirty and sitting in the sink!").
Others will tell you no, you shouldn't do it. My opinion is that if I want something done I should do it myself. This doesn't mean everything though. For instance, I don't touch her office which is a disaster, etc. But yeah, I'll do the dishes no matter who was responsible for leaving them there.
Id take those dishes load them in a trash bag and throw them away. Then I kick her out of the house like NOW! Let her go live in her new found loves apartment.
Take back your dignity!!
Is this going to bring her back to MR? I'd lie to hear other people comment on this advice pls.
Thanks for all replies.
There are no guarantees no matter what you do. Maybe what is being suggested here will snap her out of it. Maybe it won't. The point endofit was making is that you do that for you. Notice the "take back your dignity". The idea is that you do things to get your swagger back. She may stay, she may leave, but either way you will have that swagger that you used to have.
I feel like GAL is going to help no matter what. Is this plus stop pursuing the only way to end the EA?
I'm not touching the dishes. I can't kick her out of the house, it's jointly owned. But I'm thinking about parking my butt in my normal bed and leaving it there. The EA is still ongoing, and even though this BD was due largely to me, this is getting out of hand with the EA. Maybe this isn't the best thing to end the EA, but you all chime in.
After realizing I can't control her last Friday, I have felt better and have been focusing on myself. Thanks for all replies you guys.
I feel like GAL is going to help no matter what. Is this plus stop pursuing the only way to end the EA?
Still the wrong question. The only thing that can end the EA is one or both the parties in the EA wanting to end it.
GAL and not pursuing give her the best chance of waking up and ending it but is not a guarantee.
Well hopefully it will come to a head. That's why Im not putsuing, right? It's not like the EA is going anywhere. WAS's family would never accept this person, especially given the situation.
And by "its not like the EA is going anywhere", I mean there's little chance that it would be lasting bc of her family orientation.
But there's that saying about assumptions. ..
I second what Steve said..you need to GAL, not in hopes that it will bring your wife back but to find yourself. Concern yourself not with the EA, if it does end, what is to say she won t jump to another? Your wife really does not care what the family thinks, she is not thinking clearly. She will do what she wants. Make no assumptions or attempts at mind reading. The only thing that will save us LBS is GaL and being the best we can be to come out of this stronger and more confident. This is the only way that WAW may want to come back, but it shouldn t be your sole purpose for doing so.
Figured out how to re-store
Thanks for the response. Maybe had a bit of progress this morning. WAS actually called her folks to tell on me for taking a vehicle without asking. She says it's not that I took it but that I didn't tell her. Well, last time I asked she said no. Now that I have balls again I just took it. It's our car. But she says she had stuff in there she needed. Apparently that is sunglasses and lipstick.
I think her talking to her folks in any capacity is a good thing. We went from seeing them 1-3 days a week to 0. She asked her mom to meet her to get her wallet back last week instead of just goin to get it.
She questioned me on where I was going and with who, didn't believe I was going by myself, and questoned where I was last night. GAL, that's where.
She thinks I'm ignoring her bc I don't respond quicky to her texts and don't answer every call. She asked if I was ready to sign papers and I think it surprised her when I said my position has not changed.
My MIL was mad, said I was playing a game by not telling WAW I'd be taking the vehicle, but she only knows part of the story and said that I have to take WAW's crap bc I was an ass (she's referring to my verbal abuse). I responded that I'm tired of feeling disrespected.
Anyways probably need to limit my contact there. My therapist said to talk to them for my sanity and help for me, but leave out ugly details. Basically don't run and tell.
Well hopefully it will come to a head. That's why Im not putsuing, right? It's not like the EA is going anywhere. WAS's family would never accept this person, especially given the situation.
You are probably right that it will go no where, but I trust me, it isn't for reason 2. Wayward wives care about no one but themselves. My sister ended up married to a guy that my family never accepted. More than likely it won't go anywhere because those things that are planted in bad soil usually do not live long.
I really think I am holding out hope that she'll see the proverbal light. I'm using this weekend to sink further into my own changes and recommit to that front.
I just realized this when reading p 149.
Is being the "old me" and making her breakfast or a coffee too much like pursuit right now? I think I am ahead of myself. I'm reading Chapter 9-Pulling it All Together.
Yes,
Making her breakfast will come off like pursuit at the moment.
Thanks Joejoe. What's your take on my loner winded post above (from today)?
Yes,
Making her breakfast will come off like pursuit at the moment.
Gonna repost this so others can comment...
Thanks for the response. Maybe had a bit of progress this morning. WAS actually called her folks to tell on me for taking a vehicle without asking. She says it's not that I took it but that I didn't tell her. Well, last time I asked she said no. Now that I have balls again I just took it. It's our car. But she says she had stuff in there she needed. Apparently that is sunglasses and lipstick.
I think her talking to her folks in any capacity is a good thing. We went from seeing them 1-3 days a week to 0. She asked her mom to meet her to get her wallet back last week instead of just goin to get it.
She questioned me on where I was going and with who, didn't believe I was going by myself, and questoned where I was last night. GAL, that's where.
She thinks I'm ignoring her bc I don't respond quicky to her texts and don't answer every call. She asked if I was ready to sign papers and I think it surprised her when I said my position has not changed.
My MIL was mad, said I was playing a game by not telling WAW I'd be taking the vehicle, but she only knows part of the story and said that I have to take WAW's crap bc I was an ass (she's referring to my verbal abuse). I responded that I'm tired of feeling disrespected.
Anyways probably need to limit my contact there. My therapist said to talk to them for my sanity and help for me, but leave out ugly details. Basically don't run and tell.
Sunday night bump, hoping somebody wants to read and offer some onsight.
Hey everybody just trying to get a little advice. I am thinking about making a firm stand on going back into our marital bed. I'd like to work on getting some respect back from WAW. I feel like I haven't mentioned or addressed directly the OM, and that it needs some effort. Direct or indirect. Our house is our house, and if she wants to choose to live differently than that's up to her. I'd like to go back to my normal life, so I think I'm going to try to start living that again aside from no Pursuit and getting a life. Inevitably, she is going to try to kick me out of the bedroom.
What I plan to do is to validate her feelings over and over. I will not argue or lose my temper. If she asked me how I feel about it then I believe I'll tell her what you doing is not acceptable and it is hurtful and leave it at that. I do believe that I truly need to work towards getting some respect for myself in this R.
If she brings up D again, I am going to mention then I'll speak to my lawyer about it. Up until this point she has had that thought, as someone pointed out, that I would not get a lawyer and we will figure out the D on our own. She expected to go easily and quickly.
Also if anyone wants to go back and read my previous post I'd still be open to advice on that. Thank you in advance.
Yes take the master bed back. That is your house, you are the man of the house, she is having an affair so she is out!
1) Stop looking for progress from her. You are too HER focused. You need to focus on you. If the car is in both of your names you can take it anytime you want. Period, end of story.
2) Stop engaging other people in R discussions. If you shouldn't be engaging in R talks with your wife then you certainly shouldn't be engaging in one with her mom! No good can come of it. You can't control what she does, but if she tries to put you on the phone and/or put it on speaker, just say "I refuse to discuss matters that should be private between my wife and I with others." And walk away. Your MiL might get ticked, but she will respect you.
3) Continue to be vague what where you go and what you do. She is showing interest because her curiosity is piqued. That is a good thing if your goal is R. However, don't read too much into it and just keep it up.
4) Very good response with "She asked if I was ready to sign papers and I think it surprised her when I said my position has not changed." If you are opposed to the D then do nothing to help it along save anything that the court orders or that you are legally obligated for. Make her do all the work.
5) Her calling her parents to tell on you is not a good thing. Not necessarily a bad thing either. Obviously they will always be on her side, she is their daughter. So don't read too much into anything she or they say or do.
6) In the future just tell her you are taking the car. Loving detachment, and not wanting to be passive-aggressive demands it.
Gonna repost this so others can comment...
Thanks for the response. Maybe had a bit of progress this morning. WAS actually called her folks to tell on me for taking a vehicle without asking. She says it's not that I took it but that I didn't tell her. Well, last time I asked she said no. Now that I have balls again I just took it. It's our car. But she says she had stuff in there she needed. Apparently that is sunglasses and lipstick.
I think her talking to her folks in any capacity is a good thing. We went from seeing them 1-3 days a week to 0. She asked her mom to meet her to get her wallet back last week instead of just goin to get it.
She questioned me on where I was going and with who, didn't believe I was going by myself, and questoned where I was last night. GAL, that's where.
She thinks I'm ignoring her bc I don't respond quicky to her texts and don't answer every call. She asked if I was ready to sign papers and I think it surprised her when I said my position has not changed.
My MIL was mad, said I was playing a game by not telling WAW I'd be taking the vehicle, but she only knows part of the story and said that I have to take WAW's crap bc I was an ass (she's referring to my verbal abuse). I responded that I'm tired of feeling disrespected.
Anyways probably need to limit my contact there. My therapist said to talk to them for my sanity and help for me, but leave out ugly details. Basically don't run and tell.
Note, my previous post was responding to this post.
Thanks Steve, I appreciate your thoughts. I am done with the passive agGres I've crap, and wanting to regain some respect. That's why I'm planning on going back to our marital bed, especially since she is involved with the OM. I do or don't validate her feelings? Or just state my position that it is our bed and I'm going to sleep there to return to my normal life and comfy bed?
Thanks Steve, I appreciate your thoughts. I am done with the passive agGres I've crap, and wanting to regain some respect. That's why I'm planning on going back to our marital bed, especially since she is involved with the OM. I do or don't validate her feelings? Or just state my position that it is our bed and I'm going to sleep there to return to my normal life and comfy bed?
I wish sandi would weigh in here. Personally, I think you should validate.
"Why do you have to sleep in the bed!?! That isn't fair, you gladly left it when I asked you to before!"
"I understand your being upset about this, but it was the wrong decision at the time. I am not the one that wanted to split up, therefore I shouldn't be the one to leave the bed."
You validated, but stated your intention. But others might have better things to say.
I was in a similar position with the bed issue when I first joined here and everyone made it clear straight away that I should absolutely not be leaving the bed. My W was firm on not sleeping together and we had originally had BS agreement about switching off (her suggestion). Before anyone opened my eyes, I thought this was an acceptable solution and was all too quick to try and accommodate!
I ended up saying almost exactly what Steve posted, unfortunately I can't remember if I included the validation part. She was trying to get her turn in the bed and saying I had gone back on the agreement to switch off, because I hadn't given it up for a few nights. I said something like, "I know we had that agreement, but I thought about it and I don't think I should be the one to leave my bed and be less comfortable when I am not the one that doesn't want to be in the MR. If you don't want to sleep in the same bed, then you should be the one to find somewhere else to sleep." The thing is, though, my W was never forceful about the issue because she knew I was right. She tried to act like she was being nice and accommodating, but when she saw I wasn't going to accommodate her anymore and give her any more turns in the bed, she did start making passive-aggressive comments all the time about not getting to sleep in it. I ignored them (that is a good example of a time NOT to validate).
This was one of the first steps I took toward standing up to my W and I have been in the bed ever since. Eventually, she gave up on her passive aggressive comments and hasn't challenged me anymore about the bed. Not sure if any of that helps, but I do think it's very important you do not let your WW have her way about the bed any longer!
Hey everybody just trying to get a little advice. I am thinking about making a firm stand on going back into our marital bed.
Go for it, but...
I'd like to work on getting some respect back from WAW.
...not because you want some kind of reaction out of her. This is more about you getting some respect back for yourself.
Inevitably, she is going to try to kick me out of the bedroom.
The thing about your sitch is this- you're fine sleeping alone, or in the same bed with her. Go back to the bedroom and tell her she's welcome to stay or go, that's up to her. SHE is the one that wants you out of the bed. That is HER problem, not yours. If she complains just politely tell her you never should have left and it's not going to happen again.
If she brings up D again, I am going to mention then I'll speak to my lawyer about it.
If she brings it up, then just tell her it is not what you want, but you understand it's what she wants and you will not stand in the way of her decision. You want to stress that it is HER decision. And SHE needs to do all the work. Don't get baited into agreeing to do it yourself, if she tries that then tell that you don't want it and will not pursue it.
Thanks for the comments. The bed is a respect thing, not something to get a reaction. Truly, if she wants out of the MR, she'll get that sooner or later. But I don't think I should be sleeping in the guest bed anymore, now that I know she is having an EA with the OM still.
I have been enjoying my time on the weekends at the lake, and I sleep alone most nights. I can do this either way. I prefer to be in bed with my W, but that will be up to her. My mental states has improved due to you guys, so I thank you. I still have a ways to go.
We have so many complicated issues right now anyways with our house and business. I am becoming less available to her but we do need communication bc we need permanent financing on our spec home loan. We need a mower to cut the grass (I told her about this a month ago), we need to get our/her vehicle looked at for an insurance claim. We need to rebuild a retaining wall and paint a drywall repair on the spec house we're living in. This stuff is piling up and hopefully she is venting this to the OM, who won't be able to help her. The spec home is for sale, but we are out of time on the construction loan and need to refi. Going to be hard to do during a D.
Well, maybe we'll get a response from sandi, I'll remain optimistic there! I wonder if I should be validatin or not. We'll discuss I further I guess...
She is questioning where I'm at and who I'm with. How do I respond, but vaguely?
And Steve, she hasn't talked to her parents except for a couple of times since BD. We saw them 1-3 days a week before BD. She has not returned a lot of their calls either. That's why I say it was good that she had some contact with her folks. I bet her mom's heart skipped a beat when she saw WW calling.
You can just say. Nothing and wait until you get home. She is assuming, and that's her problem. Or you can say, "I'm doing fine I will see you when I get home". Leave it vague as hell. She has lost her right to know your whereabouts.
Dont be mean or vindictive. You are lovingly detaching.
I moved into the bed last night. She immediately asked what I was doing. I said I'm sleeping in here now. She responded that she's not sleeping (in the same bed) as me. I validated and said that's fine. Then she tried forcing me out of bed by pushing me with arms and legs. That didn't work so she tickled me. That did work. But then I got back in bed and she gave up.
Then she asked me to get her one of ice cream sandwiches. I told her no, this is the last one, but there is cookies and cream if you want to go get that. She asked about 5 more times if I'd give her the ice cream sandwich and then started trying to take it out of my hands. I didn't give in. Then she started crying. I didn't respond. After a few minutes of that act, she decided to call me an [censored] and go sleep in the front bedroom. In protest, she opened one of the French doors connecting the master to the hallway. Eventually I woke up and closed both doors.
She was laughing and touching me, so I guess that's a positive. She punched me twice in the stomach when I wouldn't be Mr. Nice Guy for her. Also, I get yelled at for talking to a friend about my situation. I told her that I can talk to my friends. She asked who all I've told about it (her affair). I told her that's my business. She responded that when they go and "run their mouth" then it becomes her business. So I told her to do whatever she wants. She said she told him something, and I said I'm glad you got that resolved then. She also used this moment to threaten to tell people that I was emailing an ex 6 years ago. I responded by saying that's up to you.
She also asked what I was doing tonight. I told her just hanging out. She also questioned who all I have told about our situation, I think she meant her affair, though she didn't speak the word. I was very upbeat the whole time, and recorded it so I could relisten. I think she is used to me doing everything she wants, when she wants. She didn't leave the bed until I wouldn't give her the ice cream AND didn't respond to her crying.
Thanks for all your help, I'm definitely feeling stronger and better about myself. Need to keep working on myself, and for myself.
WW are funny it when it comes to talking to others about their misdeeds.
I told my W early on that I had no one to talk to. She got rebellious and said I could tell whomever I wanted, that she couldn't stop me. I named a couple of people (our preacher and my mom). She suddenly got quiet. Then she started naming a couple of people (one friend in another state that no one else we know knows and another "safe" person). I could tell her mind started turning when I told people too close.
Granted I would never tell my mom. That would've poisoned their relationship and made it harder for her to come back to the MR. Even our preacher would have been difficult for her, she may have stopped attending church.
So while I say use your support system to help you through, you do need to be cautious about who you tell. Telling too many or the wrong people can greatly complicate R occurring.
Otherwise you did awesome dude! I wouldn't doubt, if you keep this up consistently, that she will ask to return to the MBR eventually.
WW wanted to know why I was in bed again last night and I said we talked about this yesterday. I fell asleep while she was watching TV and she kept bumping into me about four or five times and eventually she just rested her arm against me I think to wake me up or get attention of some sort. She eventually left went and slept in the other bedroom.
Conversations have increased, she's asking me where I have been, and we have some physical touch the last 2 evenings.
My counselor says when she is doing these things, she is indeed pursuing, and that I need to respond to these in a positive way.
Any input from you all?
WW wanted to know why I was in bed again last night and I said we talked about this yesterday. I fell asleep while she was watching TV and she kept bumping into me about four or five times and eventually she just rested her arm against me I think to wake me up or get attention of some sort. She eventually left went and slept in the other bedroom.
Conversations have increased, she's asking me where I have been, and we have some physical touch the last 2 evenings.
My counselor says when she is doing these things, she is indeed pursuing, and that I need to respond to these in a positive way.
Any input from you all?
Let her sleep in another room if she wants, good job moving back into the MBR.
I say let her keep pursuing you, if you turn around and try to pursue her she will retreat.
Simple pursuit and distance.
WW wanted to know why I was in bed again last night and I said we talked about this yesterday. I fell asleep while she was watching TV and she kept bumping into me about four or five times and eventually she just rested her arm against me I think to wake me up or get attention of some sort. She eventually left went and slept in the other bedroom.
Conversations have increased, she's asking me where I have been, and we have some physical touch the last 2 evenings.
My counselor says when she is doing these things, she is indeed pursuing, and that I need to respond to these in a positive way.
Any input from you all?
Let her sleep in another room if she wants, good job moving back into the MBR.
I say let her keep pursuing you, if you turn around and try to pursue her she will retreat.
Simple pursuit and distance.
You probably know more than I do. I am a bit tentative on responding to her pursuit, if that is indeed what it is. I give this board and Michele a great deal of thanks for the progress I've made this far.
My mental and emotional state is so much better. I feel attached to AJS and his thread so I want him to know it only took me 2 weeks to wake up and START a turnaround. I wish he lived around here.
I wanted to give an update from last night. Last night, WW came home, and then into the bedroom pretty late. I was pretty tired and had just gotten off the phone with my sister. She accused me of being selfish and controlling by sleeping in the master the last few days. She told me that she knows that I know that she does not want to sleep in the same bed. I basically just validated her feelings, but a couple of times I did start to argue. I think I need to keep my cool and discuss any disagreements from a position of love, instead of anger or fear of being left. But I strongly disagreed that I was being controlling and selfish.
She continued on to say I hate women, or maybe everyone, and that her parents thought that I was trying to do "something" by going back to the master bedroom. Again, I can't trust what she says, but it sounds like she is trying to get her parents "on her side". If her parents really did say this, they are totally ignoring her affair. Her mom told me that if her husband treated her as I treated WW, that she would thrown his stuff out of the house the next day. I am still curious how she would handle him having an affair - and how she thinks I should. I don't think I need to be initiating many convos with them just yet.
WW also stated that I was trying to "make life hard on her". That isn't true, but I'm not sure how to be a loving husband and take care of her, while she is trying to have her cake and eat it too (with the affair). I think I discussed this some with my counselor, who said you can be the strong, kind, approachable person she needs. She left the room and came back two more times to discuss selling her car and then selling the house. I don't think WW is sincere about her desire to sell the house, other than to run away from me. We've needed a mower, needed to rebuild a retaining wall, repaint some spots, need to keep the house clean and picked up on a daily basis, and need a lockbox or someone home on weekends to show the house. Since she knows all these things, but isn't doing them, I have come to this conclusion.
Those conversations went okay. Ultimately, I think she (and her parents) know why I'm in the master. She is having an affair, and I'm not going to be her little beta and bend over backwards to make her life as easy as it can be. If she doesn't want to sleep in the master, that is her choice, but I didn't force her to choose that. I think I need to set some boundaries with WW, and tell her "I can't talk about this right now" when it's late and I'm tired. I just think it's too easy to say something I don't want to say.
She accused me of being selfish and controlling by sleeping in the master the last few days.
In what world is sleeping in your own bed "selfish". I would argue that perhaps, just maybe, SHE is the one who is selfish given that she's having an affair and wants out of the marriage commitment she made.
She told me that she knows that I know that she does not want to sleep in the same bed. I basically just validated her feelings, but a couple of times I did start to argue.
I'm all for validating when it's appropriate, but she's a WW not a WAS and you've got to take more of a tough-love approach with her. Just tell her that she is the one that chose to end the M and engage in an affair and if she doesn't want to sleep in the same bed with you then that is HER CHOICE.
She continued on to say I hate women, or maybe everyone, and that her parents thought that I was trying to do "something" by going back to the master bedroom.
Response: "Now you are just being childish, this conversation is over."
Again, I can't trust what she says, but it sounds like she is trying to get her parents "on her side".
Of course she is. That's what WW's do. They gather everyone they can to their cause, it makes them feel like their actions are justified. Your response? Conduct yourself with dignity at all times. Ignore her petty accusations, don't engage. Shut her down when she says ridiculous things. Your actions will speak much louder than her words. Expect her parents to side with her, no matter how crazy she gets she is still their daughter. That's just going to happen.
If her parents really did say this, they are totally ignoring her affair. Her mom told me that if her husband treated her as I treated WW, that she would thrown his stuff out of the house the next day. I am still curious how she would handle him having an affair - and how she thinks I should. I don't think I need to be initiating many convos with them just yet.
No, you need to avoid talking to them about anything except the weather. If they ask about your M just say you're working on things and leave it at that.
WW also stated that I was trying to "make life hard on her". That isn't true, but I'm not sure how to be a loving husband and take care of her, while she is trying to have her cake and eat it too (with the affair).
She is making life hard on her and everyone else. But she needs to deflect guilt and blame onto someone else, and guess who is the most convenient target. Look forget about being a loving husband right now, you can't do that while she's in an A.
If she doesn't want to sleep in the master, that is her choice, but I didn't force her to choose that.
EXACTLY!!!
I think I need to set some boundaries with WW, and tell her "I can't talk about this right now" when it's late and I'm tired. I just think it's too easy to say something I don't want to say.
Yes, good idea!
MF'n heated right now. My sister just showed me a pic WW and OM on snapchat. Just needed to vent. Obviously I wish I would have really hurt this guy when I confronted this situation. I could have too. He could be prepared for it and it wouldn't make even a little difference.
I want to do about a million visceral, vain reactions to make her look like [censored]. Hopefully her sister sees this stuff and sends it along to mom and dad. I'm done being the tattletale. I remember her dad telling me that WW "would never do anything like that" when expressed concern that there might be someone else. I already knew, but didn't want to come out and say it yet.
But to hell with cleaning up one more dish or validating an idea. Want to be a whore? Well guess what? That's wrong. She hasn't even filed for D or separation...2.5 months in after BD, why hasn't she filed? She actually suggested that we trade in our nice vehicle for a lesser vehicle so that we could have more wiggle room on the loan. Why in the holy hell would I buy another vehicle with her? Totally living in lala land.
I don't believe in divorce. I believe this is a hard time, one of the hard times I agreed to be true through. But god dang if divorce isn't tempting right now.
Remember, there are hard times and then there is breaking your vows. She is breaking her vows. PAs are grounds for divorce in almost every culture. So I admire your pro marriage stance. But no one would blame you for divorcing her for adultery.
Stay calm. Breath! Go for a long walk.
Now, you have proof your W is cake eating. Take time gather your thoughts. Don't make any hasty decisions.
It's time to detach. Please don't bring her family into this. I'm glad to hear you are going to stop telling.
You can detach, remember to do it with love. You want to show her the best version of you ever. Stop arguing with her.
Get out the house and GAL. It's Friday. Start enjoying your life.
Most of us have been where you are at. GAL, GAL, GAL. Go get some new clothes, smell good and shoes.
IMO, you are going to have to confront your W about the picture. Do it with confidence, love, and calm.
I would say, "I saw a picture of you and OM, I will not be any person's second. I will not live in a M sharing my W". If she tries to say they are friends and it was a friendly picture. You say, "I don't care, it's wrong and unacceptable". Leave the convo right after that statement. Don't let her try to justify herself. Tell her you don't want to Talk anymore tonight. Let her chew on your statements overnight. Don't give any ultimatums yet. I dont think you are ready for those yet.
This process will take patience.
Hey joejoe1, I already had the proof of what she was doing (unfortunately). I've been detaching.
Her family already knows she has been doing this, but since going full LRT 2.5 weeks ago, I haven't spoken with them but once. I'm not going to initiate a convo with them.
I've been doing the GAL thing. It's been great for me, definitely feeling better and stronger mentally. WW asked several times last week where I was with and who I was with.
Also, I know that another week has gone by without her filing for D. I have a theory that she doesn't want to do it. She is still trying to hurt me, control me, and she sees herself as the victim. I think she is trying to do all this stuff to get me to file, or the WW has no clue what she wants to do. What is she waiting for? I can't think why else you'd wait. She is definitely running from the pain, the marriage. She is doing like a high schooler too: "tell H 'it's over', officially shack up with new BF, problem solved!".
Running from the pain is kind of her MO. She never dealt with the trauma that she went through (that was mentioned page 1). I have a feeling it happened in the spring, now that I reread her St. Valentine's card. She mentioned the time of the year, and how great it was, because that's when we met and some memories. But now I wonder if she was overcompensating because of the pain of that trauma she never got over. I know she didn't get over that pain, because she gave me her journal entry from 1 year ago around the beginning of April. This was the entry where she stated she wishes we could talk about it sometime, but always chickened out.
How long can her little happy world continue to exist? There are a few people that know what's going on as far as her affair, and I know everyone can see the desperation on her social media. Posting frequency, pictures, just pretending she is living a perfect life. I don't have any of that social media, but it was something my sister and I discussed. I know the one friend of hers I told is paying attention, as is WW's sister (who is probably just as lost on what the hell is going on). I'm sure my sister in law sees this stuff and it makes it back to my in laws. The fantasy world she created is under constant assault by all of the normal things that pop up that married couples have to deal with. It's all been brushed under the rug for 2 months, so it is piling up. And, at some point, is the OM going to tire of her not filing, listening to her marriage problems (b/c I sure haven't heard many - I'm GAL)? OM and his family are pretty trashy, again letting a married woman in the family home where momma's boy stays. Maybe they'll never care because trash is trash.
With the holiday weekend coming, I'm sure that's going to evoke some emotion. Holiday weekends are big weekends or her family, and going to a certain place where we have second homes. WW is probably not going to have any come with her to this place, because most of her friends don't care about going there. And WW's 2 closest friends are waitresses, they're probably working anyways. OM wouldn't be allowed, although I'mm not ruling out him going there and her going out to see him a couple times. Because of this, she is going to have sometime alone with family that I think is going to feel awkward and sad for her. There is a small chance WW doesn't go, but that would majorly rocking the boat in her side of the family.
I've thought about filing for D myself 2 times, only briefly. I am going to see my priest and talk to him more. I just need to keep my resolve on repairing this marriage and not waffle, even in my head, about what I want Thank you guys for reading and responding, it really helps me a lot.
Ovr,
You want her fantasy to come crashing down. We all want that, but you are putting to much thought in what if. You have to focus and worry about you. WW arent logical, they don't think, act, react in a logical way. The more you think certain things going to shake her the more you might be setting yourself up for disappointment if it doesnt happen.
Yeah the mess under the rug is pilling up, but you would be amazed how high they will let it go.
You are doing good with your GAL and WWs almost all the time affair down. Her A is not about the other person, it's about her frame of mind. The OP is there to fulfill her fantasy, to give her feel good moments. But when you pull away, she has to deal/live with that OP not having the potential their S has. The WS has to live with being with a person they are not truly in love with.
Be patient! Enjoy this upcoming holiday weekend.
Ovr,
You want her fantasy to come crashing down. We all want that, but you are putting to much thought in what if. You have to focus and worry about you. WW arent logical, they don't think, act, react in a logical way. The more you think certain things going to shake her the more you might be setting yourself up for disappointment if it doesnt happen.
Yeah the mess under the rug is pilling up, but you would be amazed how high they will let it go.
You are doing good with your GAL and WWs almost all the time affair down. Her A is not about the other person, it's about her frame of mind. The OP is there to fulfill her fantasy, to give her feel good moments. But when you pull away, she has to deal/live with that OP not having the potential their S has. The WS has to live with being with a person they are not truly in love with.
Be patient! Enjoy this upcoming holiday weekend.
Joejoe, what's the bolded part mean?
You're definitely right that I do need to refocus on myself, I'll keep that in mind.
Ovr,
I didn't even realized I Bolden that. But maybe its a sign to you. It means that the WS most of the time choose a person that does not equal up to thier spouse. They choose a person that's given them 20% not realizing they are losing 80%. The only way for them to realize the difference in the percentage is for them to lose that 80 or see themselves losing the 80.
In order for that to happen the LBS has to detach with love. That's what becoming a person only a fool would leave is all about. Showing them that 80 percent leaving.
You have to stop putting all your attention on her and work on you. Show her what a great man you are, not out of revenge but out of you learning what you have done wrong and now you are fixing those faults in yourself.
Keep up the hard work. Don't do things to try and fix, show, or get back at your W. She's on her on journey, and time, karma, and reality will do it's job. And all three of those items, need you to be out of the way for them to do what they need to do.
Look up the three levels of love.
Eros love - known as "erotic love". It is based on strong feelings toward another. It usually occurs in the first stages of a man-woman "romantic" relationship.
Philos love - a love based on friendship between two people.
Agape - unconditional love
The third and highest type of love is "agape", or unconditional love.
Agape love is above philos love and eros love. It is a love that is totally selfless, where a person gives out love to another person even if this act does not benefit her/him in any way. Whether the love given is returned or not, the person continues to love (even without any self-benefit).
A person in an A, is in Eros love. Eros love never last. Eros love is selfish type of love. Agape is the love you will give your S. That love is hard to replicate. It take years to form.
You are doing good.
Thanks joejoe. I actually bolded it when I quoted it to make it easy to know what I was referencing. I studied those types of love in Catholic school.
I am working on myself, reading about my situation, geting counseling, reflecting, thinking, talking to my priest, sister, mother. And when I need a break from the serious I GAL.
Today, WW gets home from OM's and texts me "What should we do about the grass". I have told we need to get a mower and to leave some cash for me (she works for cash) at least 3 times including once in the few days. The grass is tall. I already borrowed a mower twice.
Now that WW is home from OM's house, she "needs me". Yea, no.
I went back and read the detachment thread. I need to work on that and finding some activities that are truly fun. I have been GAL and stopping pursuit, but I think I need to be working on myself more. Just a thought, and something I talked about with my sister last night.
Since we have no kids, I am trying to be active each weeknight. It really does help me detach because then I'm not at home on the "battlefield" where there are all these emotions. I am still affected by the things WW says, and need to keep detaching so I can choose how I want to act/react as opposed to taking an auto pilot type of reaction.
Thanks for the support everyone.
I hear you about getting out as much as possible since I don't have any kids either. Keeping oneself busy is a key strategy to avoid ruminating or wallowing too much. I think if you focus on GALing and improving yourself the detachment will come with time. At least I hope so!
Yes, for me it's about doing it for the right reasons. I know I'm not fully detached, because I'm sometimes doing in hopes that WW notices and changes. So I need to keep reminding myself why I'm doing it - for me.
And I'm secretly hoping Sandi2 comments on my situation too...but I have read a lot of her posts, so those help a lot. I'm trying to figure out whether or not to validate.
Hell I shouldn't be answering my phone for WW hardly ever right? Especially during work?
She only calls when she "needs me" to do something anyways. "Where's my lipstick" "we need a mortgage" "what about the grass".
I went to get in bed, then she moved to my side and told me no. Then I went to the other side so she moved to that side. Back and forth. Then I dove in bed, and she actually laughed. Then she keep pushing me trying to get me out of bed so I told her to get her hands off me. So she says you put your hands on me first. Well she stole my phone and I tried to grab it back. Then she hates me, I'm controlling, and I'm a piece of sh*t.
Now she's in the front bedroom. She accused me of trying to steal the house and of trying to make her leave the house. She'll say anything to manipulate me. It's funny that she says I'm trying to screw her over financially. Seems like more projecting. (She is hiding money and spending excessively). She has also been asking me where I've been and with who which is the initial projecting bc she is having an A.
LOL, she is really showing her cards here. She's trying to control you and manipulate you and then accuses you of the same. Exactly what you said, projecting. Well played though. She is definitely having an internal struggle. I predict she'll return to the MBR within weeks.
Man Steve I hope so, but I'm still working on myself. She is still having her affair though so we'll see if and when she decides to come to MBR.
But I dunno about her being in there if the affair is still ongoing.
Today: 4 phone calls and a text before noon. She needs answers now! I finally called her back, sounded super upbeat, answered her questions quickly but fully and then promptly ended the convo.
4 calls yesterday and a bunch of texts. One of the calls was after 8pm, while she was just sitting at home alone.
I let WW's go to VM. I've got things to do that don't involve stopping work to answer questions. If WW wants a husband she should act like it.
Ovrrnbw,
Rear your sitch yesterday. A few pointers that may help. Not,trying to give advice, just things that flag given my background. So take it all with a pinch of salt. You will need to form your own opinions and take your own path as each sitch is different.
First. Please can you add your stitch to your footer. Why? It helps respondents to remember the back story.
Second. Stop the overthinking. Is she trying to make you her bitch etc. Stop it all, it is so hard, I understand, but overthinking is you stuck in a rut. Climb out my friend.
Three. Run, gym, walk as much as you need. Running and heavy weights in particular. It stops overthinking.
Four. She may well try to make you engage in things that you know will end in war (google the drama triangle). Do not engage. Read about how to validate and acknowledge ( ok, sounds hard type stuff). Do not accept her story though. It s hers, try to drop emotional ties and no getting dragged in. Again see drama triangle behaviour. In these situations everything she says will have a pay off to her and an impact to your detriment. Is this clear? It is very important.
Five. GAL is for you. Forget her. She is no longer yours - as she is not who she was (weird eh but it is so I am afraid). Why hang around being hers when she is not her? She may come back - but you must work on the basis she may not, otherwise you are hanging in there like a lap dog and she will thrive on it. You said about her making you her bitch. Hang around and YOU are making YOU her bitch. She is now just a neighbour, someone you are decent to and never argue with but you will listen when she talks nicely even if it s difficult to do so. If she crosses boundaries (abuse/shouting) you close her down. Explain the boundary and move off - physically if necessary.
Six. 100 per cent you have no control over her. She is not who you thought she was. She is now someone else. Just drop whoever she is for now. If she picks up and does the work, great. If not. You will be fine. You might not want to hear this but your life will be better without the chaos no doubt. Focus on that, you are not so desperate and she wants you to be. DROP THE ROPE!
Seven. PURSUIT. Stop. Stop making her coffee etc in the morning to win her back. It will not work. You just look like you are desperate. Move on. If she changes her ways all well and good, if not, all good. Also, stop trying to measure her change. Only measure her on the day she leaves (you do not , ever it s your home) or if she changes and begs for forgiveness. The former is most likely, it may be followed by the latter.
Eight. I agree with other advice. Get in your bed. She will then move out. Every night it will send her her into stress not you. This is for her not you.
Nine. If she speaks about the D. Just validate. Say her journey not yours - do this kindly though (no point in starting a war). That s it. Be a man still even when kind. Dont come across as some limp lettuce emo-man. Feel free to say, sounds tricky. Then move on. If she presses you - just say Ive given you my thoughts. Other times let her talk more and just listen.
Ten. Get buff. Get out there doing something. If she asks who with - friends. If she asks again, repeat answer 1.
Eleven. Dont respond to her physical touch. Tell her you are not comfortable with it as you need someone that is committed to a R with you (she has said she is not) if she asks you why. Until you see her buy in you can not change this and will not. You bought in to a committed R not this.
Twelve. Do not talk to her parents or others about this (the only exception is your very closest friends and possibly family but make sure you are 100 per cent sure it will not get back. Every mouthful of anger you spill will need to be undone if this mends. You need max two or so people to talk to IMHO. This board will suffice if not. You must not talk to her parents or family again about the sitch.
Thirteen. Keep your text responses and calls brief. Like you are answering yes or no questions, but slightly less so. Do not call or chase her , give yourself a telling off if you are tempted.
Fourteen. You are still spinning, due to attachment. You must detach. This is where you are a bit meh on what she says or does she is not pulling your strings. Your asking why, how, is it this is evident of your mindset and your link to her. It takes lots of time to drop the rope but sadly each time you pick it up again you continue the habit. Like smoking , you are straight back to the depths of addiction. And it is a habit and you must go cold turkey on this my friend. Very difficult as you get a pay off when you chase her (perhaps she does care about me after all??) and so does she (watch this maggot squirm). Its pretty horrible dynamics, but thats your bag until you detach.
Fifteen. Dont freak out. We have all done exactly what you have. So similar for all of us. Its the playbook analogy. Just remember
a) this takes time to master it is all about changing habits - many at once!!
b) it is her rollercoaster not yours - its just about when, not if, you can learn that riding it only screws you up. Stop it. Its a habit that will not only damage you life, it will damage theirs and your loved ones.
Read my back story if you want to see how similar it is.
Finally, I can tell you that I see my kids and my WW almost daily. I am very, very happy (much more happy than when together with WW), so are the kids. They will be rounded and happy adults. She may not however. We get along and talk and rarely have a cross word. However, do I 100 per cent trust her - no.
New Mrs. Surfer is 6 yrs younger than WW and just the loveliest v smart (2 x MSC smart). 1.5 years in. Not a single cross word or look. Either way. Not like that with WW. Red flags with WW began within 6 months of R - I just thought it would be okay. I presumed she was like me - kind and forgiving. Not so. Reflect on your R! Did you have red flags. What were they?
You will be fine and happy. Just take it in bite size chunks and take back control.
A final point. She is wearing your testicles as earrings and I bet she loves to wear them and proudly shows them off. Take them back and stuff them firmly down the front of your trousers my friend.
Final, final point. ALWAYS keep your cool.
Surfer.
Surfer
Your post is restored - whatever method you are using for posting needs to either change or you need to stop using or typing apostrophes and quote marks.
I spent 30 mins removing them to restore this post.
Ovrrnbw,
Rear your sitch yesterday. A few pointers that may help. Not,trying to give advice, just things that flag given my background. So take it all with a pinch of salt. You will need to form your own opinions and take your own path as each sitch is different.
First. Please can you add your stitch to your footer. Why? It helps respondents to remember the back story.
Second. Stop the overthinking. Is she trying to make you her bitch etc. Stop it all, it is so hard, I understand, but overthinking is you stuck in a rut. Climb out my friend.
Three. Run, gym, walk as much as you need. Running and heavy weights in particular. It stops overthinking.
Four. She may well try to make you engage in things that you know will end in war (google the drama triangle). Do not engage. Read about how to validate and acknowledge ( ok, sounds hard type stuff). Do not accept her story though. It s hers, try to drop emotional ties and no getting dragged in. Again see drama triangle behaviour. In these situations everything she says will have a pay off to her and an impact to your detriment. Is this clear? It is very important.
Five. GAL is for you. Forget her. She is no longer yours - as she is not who she was (weird eh but it is so I am afraid). Why hang around being hers when she is not her? She may come back - but you must work on the basis she may not, otherwise you are hanging in there like a lap dog and she will thrive on it. You said about her making you her bitch. Hang around and YOU are making YOU her bitch. She is now just a neighbour, someone you are decent to and never argue with but you will listen when she talks nicely even if it s difficult to do so. If she crosses boundaries (abuse/shouting) you close her down. Explain the boundary and move off - physically if necessary.
Six. 100 per cent you have no control over her. She is not who you thought she was. She is now someone else. Just drop whoever she is for now. If she picks up and does the work, great. If not. You will be fine. You might not want to hear this but your life will be better without the chaos no doubt. Focus on that, you are not so desperate and she wants you to be. DROP THE ROPE!
Seven. PURSUIT. Stop. Stop making her coffee etc in the morning to win her back. It will not work. You just look like you are desperate. Move on. If she changes her ways all well and good, if not, all good. Also, stop trying to measure her change. Only measure her on the day she leaves (you do not , ever it s your home) or if she changes and begs for forgiveness. The former is most likely, it may be followed by the latter.
Eight. I agree with other advice. Get in your bed. She will then move out. Every night it will send her her into stress not you. This is for her not you.
Nine. If she speaks about the D. Just validate. Say her journey not yours - do this kindly though (no point in starting a war). That s it. Be a man still even when kind. Dont come across as some limp lettuce emo-man. Feel free to say, sounds tricky. Then move on. If she presses you - just say Ive given you my thoughts. Other times let her talk more and just listen.
Ten. Get buff. Get out there doing something. If she asks who with - friends. If she asks again, repeat answer 1.
Eleven. Dont respond to her physical touch. Tell her you are not comfortable with it as you need someone that is committed to a R with you (she has said she is not) if she asks you why. Until you see her buy in you can not change this and will not. You bought in to a committed R not this.
Twelve. Do not talk to her parents or others about this (the only exception is your very closest friends and possibly family but make sure you are 100 per cent sure it will not get back. Every mouthful of anger you spill will need to be undone if this mends. You need max two or so people to talk to IMHO. This board will suffice if not. You must not talk to her parents or family again about the sitch.
Thirteen. Keep your text responses and calls brief. Like you are answering yes or no questions, but slightly less so. Do not call or chase her , give yourself a telling off if you are tempted.
Fourteen. You are still spinning, due to attachment. You must detach. This is where you are a bit meh on what she says or does she is not pulling your strings. Your asking why, how, is it this is evident of your mindset and your link to her. It takes lots of time to drop the rope but sadly each time you pick it up again you continue the habit. Like smoking , you are straight back to the depths of addiction. And it is a habit and you must go cold turkey on this my friend. Very difficult as you get a pay off when you chase her (perhaps she does care about me after all??) and so does she (watch this maggot squirm). Its pretty horrible dynamics, but thats your bag until you detach.
Fifteen. Dont freak out. We have all done exactly what you have. So similar for all of us. Its the playbook analogy. Just remember
a) this takes time to master it is all about changing habits - many at once!!
b) it is her rollercoaster not yours - its just about when, not if, you can learn that riding it only screws you up. Stop it. Its a habit that will not only damage you life, it will damage theirs and your loved ones.
Read my back story if you want to see how similar it is.
Finally, I can tell you that I see my kids and my WW almost daily. I am very, very happy (much more happy than when together with WW), so are the kids. They will be rounded and happy adults. She may not however. We get along and talk and rarely have a cross word. However, do I 100 per cent trust her - no.
New Mrs. Surfer is 6 yrs younger than WW and just the loveliest v smart (2 x MSC smart). 1.5 years in. Not a single cross word or look. Either way. Not like that with WW. Red flags with WW began within 6 months of R - I just thought it would be okay. I presumed she was like me - kind and forgiving. Not so. Reflect on your R! Did you have red flags. What were they?
You will be fine and happy. Just take it in bite size chunks and take back control.
A final point. She is wearing your testicles as earrings and I bet she loves to wear them and proudly shows them off. Take them back and stuff them firmly down the front of your trousers my friend.
Final, final point. ALWAYS keep your cool.
Surfer.
Surfer, thanks for the reply. I will read and respond soon.
I need a quick reply, WW is asking me if I am at the lake. She's asked three times this AM via text. I don't want to tell her where I'm at bc she doesn't extend the same courtesy. Do I ask her why she wants to know? Or is that pursuit?
How do I respond?
Surfer, thanks for the reply. I will read and respond soon.
I need a quick reply, WW is asking me if I am at the lake. She's asked three times this AM via text. I don't want to tell her where I'm at bc she doesn't extend the same courtesy. Do I ask her why she wants to know? Or is that pursuit?
How do I respond?
I wouldn't. Your whereabouts stopped being her business when she hooked up with OM.
Let her wonder.
Surfer, thanks for the reply. I will read and respond soon.
I need a quick reply, WW is asking me if I am at the lake. She's asked three times this AM via text. I don't want to tell her where I'm at bc she doesn't extend the same courtesy. Do I ask her why she wants to know? Or is that pursuit?
How do I respond?
Don't respond. Or if your NGS makes you feel compelled to, and you are not at the lake, just tell her, no, I am not at the lake. If you are at the lake and don't want her to know you are there then don't respond at all.
Well I got about 5 calls this morning and some text messages about normal stuff. WW texts "why aren't you answering". Should I respond to this or just let the actions speak?
Then twice in text WW asks if I'm at the lake... followed by "??" when I don't reply quick enough. 3 hours later WW calls to ask if I'll be at the lake, I respond "why, what's going on?". WW says "I'm just wondering", I respond "I'm just wondering, too".
I go to end the convo by saying "alright then" before I'm cut off and questioned about what I'm doing. I go to end the convo again and WW she asks if I'll be at the house today. I say "not sure", then end the convo with "I'll talk to you later" and hang up (as she was continuing to talk).
I can't keep having one way communication. I don't want to be anything and everything for WW when she can't do the same. I'm trying to remember to sound positive, I could have had a better tone. I guess I need to detach futher still.
Ovrrnbw,
Rear your sitch yesterday. A few pointers that may help. Not,trying to give advice, just things that flag given my background. So take it all with a pinch of salt. You will need to form your own opinions and take your own path as each sitch is different.
First. Please can you add your stitch to your footer. Why? It helps respondents to remember the back story.
Second. Stop the overthinking. Is she trying to make you her bitch etc. Stop it all, it is so hard, I understand, but overthinking is you stuck in a rut. Climb out my friend.
Three. Run, gym, walk as much as you need. Running and heavy weights in particular. It stops overthinking.
Four. She may well try to make you engage in things that you know will end in war (google the drama triangle). Do not engage. Read about how to validate and acknowledge ( ok, sounds hard type stuff). Do not accept her story though. It s hers, try to drop emotional ties and no getting dragged in. Again see drama triangle behaviour. In these situations everything she says will have a pay off to her and an impact to your detriment. Is this clear? It is very important.
Five. GAL is for you. Forget her. She is no longer yours - as she is not who she was (weird eh but it is so I am afraid). Why hang around being hers when she is not her? She may come back - but you must work on the basis she may not, otherwise you are hanging in there like a lap dog and she will thrive on it. You said about her making you her bitch. Hang around and YOU are making YOU her bitch. She is now just a neighbour, someone you are decent to and never argue with but you will listen when she talks nicely even if it s difficult to do so. If she crosses boundaries (abuse/shouting) you close her down. Explain the boundary and move off - physically if necessary.
Six. 100 per cent you have no control over her. She is not who you thought she was. She is now someone else. Just drop whoever she is for now. If she picks up and does the work, great. If not. You will be fine. You might not want to hear this but your life will be better without the chaos no doubt. Focus on that, you are not so desperate and she wants you to be. DROP THE ROPE!
Seven. PURSUIT. Stop. Stop making her coffee etc in the morning to win her back. It will not work. You just look like you are desperate. Move on. If she changes her ways all well and good, if not, all good. Also, stop trying to measure her change. Only measure her on the day she leaves (you do not , ever it s your home) or if she changes and begs for forgiveness. The former is most likely, it may be followed by the latter.
Eight. I agree with other advice. Get in your bed. She will then move out. Every night it will send her her into stress not you. This is for her not you.
Nine. If she speaks about the D. Just validate. Say her journey not yours - do this kindly though (no point in starting a war). That s it. Be a man still even when kind. Dont come across as some limp lettuce emo-man. Feel free to say, sounds tricky. Then move on. If she presses you - just say Ive given you my thoughts. Other times let her talk more and just listen.
Ten. Get buff. Get out there doing something. If she asks who with - friends. If she asks again, repeat answer 1.
Eleven. Dont respond to her physical touch. Tell her you are not comfortable with it as you need someone that is committed to a R with you (she has said she is not) if she asks you why. Until you see her buy in you can not change this and will not. You bought in to a committed R not this.
Twelve. Do not talk to her parents or others about this (the only exception is your very closest friends and possibly family but make sure you are 100 per cent sure it will not get back. Every mouthful of anger you spill will need to be undone if this mends. You need max two or so people to talk to IMHO. This board will suffice if not. You must not talk to her parents or family again about the sitch.
Thirteen. Keep your text responses and calls brief. Like you are answering yes or no questions, but slightly less so. Do not call or chase her , give yourself a telling off if you are tempted.
Fourteen. You are still spinning, due to attachment. You must detach. This is where you are a bit meh on what she says or does she is not pulling your strings. Your asking why, how, is it this is evident of your mindset and your link to her. It takes lots of time to drop the rope but sadly each time you pick it up again you continue the habit. Like smoking , you are straight back to the depths of addiction. And it is a habit and you must go cold turkey on this my friend. Very difficult as you get a pay off when you chase her (perhaps she does care about me after all??) and so does she (watch this maggot squirm). Its pretty horrible dynamics, but thats your bag until you detach.
Fifteen. Dont freak out. We have all done exactly what you have. So similar for all of us. Its the playbook analogy. Just remember
a) this takes time to master it is all about changing habits - many at once!!
b) it is her rollercoaster not yours - its just about when, not if, you can learn that riding it only screws you up. Stop it. Its a habit that will not only damage you life, it will damage theirs and your loved ones.
Read my back story if you want to see how similar it is.
Finally, I can tell you that I see my kids and my WW almost daily. I am very, very happy (much more happy than when together with WW), so are the kids. They will be rounded and happy adults. She may not however. We get along and talk and rarely have a cross word. However, do I 100 per cent trust her - no.
New Mrs. Surfer is 6 yrs younger than WW and just the loveliest v smart (2 x MSC smart). 1.5 years in. Not a single cross word or look. Either way. Not like that with WW. Red flags with WW began within 6 months of R - I just thought it would be okay. I presumed she was like me - kind and forgiving. Not so. Reflect on your R! Did you have red flags. What were they?
You will be fine and happy. Just take it in bite size chunks and take back control.
A final point. She is wearing your testicles as earrings and I bet she loves to wear them and proudly shows them off. Take them back and stuff them firmly down the front of your trousers my friend.
Final, final point. ALWAYS keep your cool.
Surfer.
Surfer, thanks for your post.
1.OK
2. I am overthinking everything
3. I've always been big on the gym, I'm a former athlete.
4. I need to respond, rather than say nothing to not engage, right? I've been mostly silent when she tries to start a fight.
5. I have been GAL. I come home from GAL, shower, and go to bed.
6. I have accepted this.
7. I have stopped pursuit.
8. I moved into the bed last week. This is 2 weeks now. WW is in front bedroom.
9. WW hasn't talked about D in a couple of weeks, except when I first stopped pursuit. WW thought I was "ignoring her" and if I was ready to sign papers. I replied "My position hasn't changed".
10. Already am buff. And I'm always with "friends" from here out. Nunya bidness WW!
11. Not much touching going on, except the night in bed which was weird.
12. Haven't talked to her parents about it in over 2 weeks. They don't know what the heck to do either and they know they can't control it.
13. Good point, I am still saying too much.
14. How do I detach?
15. I am trying to not freak out - thanks!!!
The only way I have "taken back the testicles" is by moving back into the master bed, not cleaning up anything after WW, not giving her what she wants when she wants, not answering the first call ever, not responding to texts in a normal time, and not being available all workday like she used to get.
Made some progress tonight. WW texted me again late this afternoon asking if I was at the lake. Again, I asked why, WW says I dunno. I say Ok then, WW replies that she is having a hard time so I say "with what"? WW says don't worry i'll be fine. I say "ok have a good weekend". Then WW asks again if I'm at the lake, but asks something else so I only respond to the other question. WW asks again if I'm at the lake. I don't respond.
An hour later WW asks me to call. After 20 or 30 minutes I call WW. WW says she is upset and crying about not being at the lake. Her folks didn't end up going bc she didn't plus it'd be awkward with the lake neighbors explaining why I wasn't there. WW wants a "new life". WW says her parents are yelling at her. WW also says that this is "happening to her", whatever that means. That's probably her way of saying, "this isn't my fault" and cleaning her hands of her wrongdoings.
I wonder if I should be her shoulder to cry on. Sounds like getting the benefits of a husband without the necessary reciprocation. She says she "wishes she could change her life". I'm not sure why she can't. WW says she's unhappy with her life. OK crazy lady.
Eventually WW texted me saying thanks for talking and she was sorry to bother me. I just responded "you're welcome".
Obviously she still has the feels. We'll see if that translates into anything positive for the marriage.
Yeah my W went through that too when she was full blown wayward. It was as if some mad woman had taken over the controls and my former W was sitting in the background powerless to do anything but watch.
Whenever we'd talk she would talk in the same terms, like she was an innocent bystander. one thingI did, right wrong or indifferent, was to remind her that she had the power to save the mR or end it. Kind of a verbal reminder that I was the lighthouse on the shore. I'd be there no matter what she decided. Not sure if it helped but it was a subtle way to let her no that she could control it despite her feeling of it just happening to her.
Anyone who has successfully R have advice on how to build attraction and respect back with WW? Is there another post on this topic?
What do I say when she asks did you go out last night? Just not answer? Tell her why is she asking? This happened today and I said I was home reading. W is empathetic we used to joke about her being telepathic... seemed to know I was out and she couldn't sleep last night. She gets jealous.
We used to have this intense sexual attraction and then "her switch flipped" I had some mental health issues I had to work through with seasonal depression. I blamed external factors when I needed to look inwards and work on myself In the past I made a lot of mistakes initially, letters, gifts, talking about changes etc. I forgive myself accept my mistakes in M and after. 180s, getting back in great shape, looking good, starting a business plan to build a potential new career.
Now full on DB doing well but only been a few days. Both have dated but now we are not. Getting separate living situation... she has no income so I'm helping her get out of a toxic living situation at her parents mom has mental health issues untreated. Her rental will be in both our names, so I'm hoping to end up spending time with her there over the next year. I am buying a condo that could be turned into a rental - moving forward with my life either way.
Thank you!
This is a great post thanks Surfer and Cadet for your time! I am in a similar situation but maybe further along timewise? Surfer where is your backstory? Is there a way to tag people on here or copy another post with my backstory? I would love to see some posts with people who used DB and had a WOW actually R. Seems like most go the other way. I want to get the attraction and respect back.
My WOW and I are cordial, she says she wants to be friends that trust each other. I made all the usual mistakes for months up until recently embracing DB and LRT. Now we are getting along and I think she is questioning her decisions & having second thoughts. But I dont think she feels the physical attraction even though Im an attractive guy great dad in good shape. She has been telling me she hasn't been able to sleep, wanting to hug etc.
I think I am too nice. She asks what I was doing last night, I should say not your business? She left. If you want to work on R then we can discuss. She brings up dating same... I don't want to hear about you and any OM I am not your gay friend I am your husband and I will be treated with respect.
Focusing on 180's GOL, in good shape but getting towards great shape. Hanging with friends but I dont have many close guy friends. Trying to work on this but work a lot of evenings. A couple girl friends but they want more than just friends.
Want W back / family, miss daughter being in my house every day. Still very attracted to her. Tried to help her for months now trying to detach. Thanks in advance for advice!
She lives w her mom and stepdad I am in our 4000sq ft house. House sold w closing of June I am moving to a condo Im buying that could be a rental investment (GOL build long term wealth whatever she does). She stopped working to raise our daughter. I applied with her for her rental and it would be both of us on the lease, she has no income. Maybe nice guy syndrome? But for her mental health she needs to get out of her parents house, mom is toxic with untreated mental health disorders. Maybe not my problem but want to help her heal. I was a selfish emotional roller coaster, depression / stress issues self medicated with marijuana blamed her for my issues which I have since worked on. She was a great W but not herself anymore, switch flipped.
She feels I control her with money and therapist previously recommended I get her her own place. This is when she was with OM in the past. Now neither of us are seeing OP.
Yesterday morning WW texted me in the morning,just my name with "..." at the end. WW tells me she's sorry (I think she means for bothering me) and that she's having a hard time. I validate, but find that statement a little annoying.
Then WW tells me she is just so sad. I say I'm sorry to hear that, WW says oh well and I leave it at that.
What the hell is she doing? Why is she coming to me when she's sad? The lake was "our thing", so that and the holiday weekend plays a big role.
I think she is trying to get a reaction out of you. She may even be trying to make you feel guilty for the situation. As the saying goes- Stay calm - be the steady on . let your light from the light house shine bright!! Stay well!!
Misery loves company. She wants to know that you are unhappy so she call feel better. Do not give her the pleasure. And stop telling her you are sorry when she says she is sad...
WHat do you say when she say she shes sad? I think Im way too supportive of wOw. Because I made a lot of mistake in the marriage. I HAVE Worked on myself a lot. Just got no more Mr Nice nice guy and I relate with a lot of the book. Trying to embrace the change. Patience is the hardest part for me. I expect her to react right away
I think she is trying to get a reaction out of you. She may even be trying to make you feel guilty for the situation. As the saying goes- Stay calm - be the steady on . let your light from the light house shine bright!! Stay well!!
Yes, but what reaction? And why? I guess this is all "part of the game".
Is she trying to get me to pursue, or feel bad for her?
My W used to use the sad technique to tug at my heartstrings and then it would often times be followed up with some sort of request. Not sure if that will happen to you. Stay well!!
I think she is trying to get a reaction out of you. She may even be trying to make you feel guilty for the situation. As the saying goes- Stay calm - be the steady on . let your light from the light house shine bright!! Stay well!!
Yes, but what reaction? And why? I guess this is all "part of the game".
Is she trying to get me to pursue, or feel bad for her?
Any reaction. She's giving you a temp check to see where you stand. She wants to know if she's still got you wrapped around her finger. If she's noticed you distancing lately, she's trying to get you to pursue again...
As far as saying you're sorry when she says she's sad, I wouldn't do it. She stabbed you in the heart and is telling you it hurts her. Really? My response would be, "Oh yeah?" or "I bet that $ucks". But I would not apologize for her feelings about something that she caused. It makes you look weak. It would be one thing if you were still in a healthy MR, but she fired you from that job. You're not her gay boyfriend...
And Wolf may be right, because my W did the same thing. Be ready for her to ask you for something. She might be buttering you up...
I'm gonna type this out while it's fresh. WW woke me up at 11 PM and kept tickling me, then after several minutes got more physical, slapping my head and hitting me with the pillow. She wanted me to get out of the bed. Said I was playing a game and that I should be doing what she wants bc I created this marital mess. I told her it's not a game at all. She's saying that someone told me to do this. I told her several times that it's late and I need to go back to bed. Obviously she didn't care to keep crossing that boundary. She cried several times. Then we talked a little more.
Then I told her I need to go back to bed. She leaves the room the comes back in to get in another word bc she's mad about sleeping in the other bedroom. So I finally say the word affair, and she's offended, says she didn't do anything wrong. I told her she was lying to herself and that she wouldn't be hiding her car and trying to get me to coerce me and a friend into not saying anything about it.
She denies this, of course, and I told her she was being like my dad (who is a horrible person). She got mad when I told her she was being like my dad when she told me i have to answer her calls bc it's her family plan. She told me I was being controlling and selfish about the bed. She doesn't like the word affair at all and Backdoor admitted to it. At the end of the 2 hour convo she wants to know who all I have told about her affair. I tell her I don't feel comfortable telling her bc I don't trust her right now. She says that I'm playing a game by saying that, and that she's been open with me and telling me things. I tell her she's not being honest with me, (she didn't admit to the money she's hiding). I say there's still secrets and she assumed I meant the affair so I reminded her that's not what I'm talking about. She didn't tell me anything new, so I didn't know what she meant.
She cried several times and blamed me for everything, she brought me emailing and texting an ex 6 years ago again, I think to justify her actions. She accused me again of trying to "take everything". She told me that her mom told her sister that her mom thinks WW is very depressed. WW also accused me of recording her, which I wasn't. I think I need to draw the line on the physical contact and conversation times.
She also stated that she can't D right now bc of the house and car situation plus she has no paper income and no where to go.
Crazy night.
Wow, have I already asked if there is a history of mental issues? She's seems really unstable. What I love is that she is trying to control you and yet accuses you of being controlling. Typical WW behavior. As is the throwing up of the emailing and texting an ex (which you shouldn't have done but you already knew that). Trust me, if you hadn't emailed and texted an ex she would have come up with some other justification for her actions.
Stay the course, she's obviously reacting to your changes, just not in a productive way at this point. Do not give up the MBR and remember to remind her that if she is willing to do what it takes then she can always return to the MBR, with you in it of course.
Also, you need to create a new thread, this one is over 10 pages now.
OVR I read all your posts. Seems like a similar situation as mine. Wishing you luck. Detaching and DB / non pursuit is tough. I made a mistake of listening to W she actually told me to date while she was in PA. So I had a relationship or two. Now trying to DB but the struggle is real. Keep posting. Anything actually working???
Not sure if you read all Sandis stuff but:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554And my story is here:
Thank you!!!
Oddly I have not changed how I post radically so it must be a glitch that does not like quote marks etc??!!!
Surfer.
Ovrrnbw,
Apologies - I have had some technical issues with posting. Just trying to catch up.
All of your responses seem sensible - but be careful you are not trying to fool yourself. There consistent (habit) changes the LBS needs to make in these situations. You highlight that you are making progress on these (which is excellent). But be careful to make sure you are (absolutely consistently) - there is a tendency to 'think' you are but may not be. You will see what I mean as you progress (i.e. you may slip on detachment, falling into bad communication habits etc). Don't assume you are there 100% and remain vigilant for your behavioural patterns, should the falter.
In terms of the following:
4. I need to respond, rather than say nothing to not engage, right? I've been mostly silent when she tries to start a fight.
DB Coaches have suggested to me to consider your WW as sad (not bad) and try to listen and validate. You don't need to speak as such - mainly to listen. But should she start to cross boundaries (become disrespectful, try to create an argument, talk about OM etc) let her know you are not happy about that - tell her confidently and fairly and move on or leave the room if you need to.
There are so many ways to deal with this, but IMHO the main point here is to not let her corner you to start a fight - it won't improve your R.
Surfer.
Did,
Search poster (display name) you can then posts and then you can actually print their thread to a PDF - I find this easiest.
Surfer.
Misery loves company. She wants to know that you are unhappy so she call feel better. Do not give her the pleasure. And stop telling her you are sorry when she says she is sad...
Also, don't tell her
.
Surfer.
Be ready for her to ask you for something. She might be buttering you up...
Temp check, buttering up and potentially sweet/salt (sweet/bitter cycle).
Reasons:
- Getting you to re-attach/temp checking (she wants a hold on you)
- She wants you to do something for her (she wants a hold on you/wants something)
- She wants to be nice so she can then be nasty (see The Drama Triangle)
Surfer.
Be careful of being set up for a fight. It is often a set up to get you out of the MBR and house.
If she starts, record even if it's not legal to use in court. If she hits you again find the bathroom and lock it.
You have raised the A she now knows you know. And she is likelying aware others suspect too. There is someone she doesn't want to know about it. And likely there was something in her head about the lake that was crucial for secrecy. An A thrives on secrecy and often withers in the light of truth.
She will also realise you know about the cash.
I would straightforwardly ask when she is putting it back as it's marital assets. This in an evidential way if possible.
V
What to say when she says she is sad?
I know but it's self inflicted don't you think.
Your conscience biting you?
I can hear/see that.
Have you had medical help for it?
That's tough.
Or in your own words.....
V
Ovr,
V is spot on - and the physical stuff, she perhaps wanted this to escalate into a fight over the bed. She wants you out of there and the house. Stay put.
On the bathroom locking. My early days red flags (that we all ignore) I have locked myself in at least 6 of our bathrooms (different houses - it's not that big - ha ha). Essentially every single one due to the ferocity of my W's rages - so bad that I just felt she was trying to get me to engage.
She is worried about you recording behaviour as she knows it is bad and would go against the image she wants to create to others - she is concerned others are starting to see her behaviour. She does not want this - she needs her secret to stay exactly that. Almost like someone that beats the children in private - it is mental abuse in this case.
If she is telling you she is playing a game, it's because she is (projection). Just ignore that. There are statements that are challenges rather than introductions to a conversation. don't engage in the challenge. You will not come off well. Be careful, use knowledge of the drama triangle to your advantage. Also try to log the pattern of conversations mentally. If you know where they go and it's not good - head it off. The WAW is habit based. You will spot patterns.
Surfer.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2792589#Post2792589