Previous installment...
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2787401&page=1Indeed Arista and it was such a nice visit ad it had been awhile since we got to hang out. There's nothing romantic going on with us now but we were always good friends first. We are each other's confidant. But yes as far as WAW goes... I don't care if she hears of it or not. Like you said, she cancelled not me.
ItHurts, she probably got cold feet. She wants you, but she still has a lot of fear and anxiety that the past will repeat itself. As Artista said, your M failed because it was a crappy M. You've changed, she sees you've changed, but she's afraid to go outside the castle walls. She'll lower the drawbridge and raise it back up. Then lower it and walk to the end of it and run back and raise it. Then lower it and step onto the grass this time before running back, etc. etc. What do you do? Enjoy your picnic. Don't even look her way.
Your next move is no move. Go right back to normal. Don't worry about her. I'm pretty sure she'll reach out again (lower the drawbridge).
Hey thanks AS! Yes I like to think that she is struggling because feelings were awakened in her from seeing me in person again and that's why she cancelled. But the skeptic in me that always seems to win over my thoughts is telling me she just isn't interested.
I guess I'm finding it too hard to believe that something this good could happen to me...that being that my WAW may actually be making the very slow journey back to me but that seems to be the general consensus here with everyone replying.
Yes my picnic is just fine. I have no problem at all just going about my business...work (and sleep LOL) has me pretty busy these days anyway. But yes there is no question that I am going to do absolutely nothing now except make her wait a few hours if/when she ever texts again...which again it's nice to hear that most replying here seem to think she likely will.
Just so hard to believe that maybe, just maybe, you guys are right and she does want me back and is is struggling with herself.
Thanks so much V! It's so great to hear all this from you guys... something to look forward to while I enjoy the single life again for a bit. For now I just relax and live my life and take care of myself as I have been.
I guess I'm finding it too hard to believe that something this good could happen to me...
Well I'm glad you are excited about the prospects. It's been 6 years since BD and 4 since D for me and to be honest if my ex suddenly expressed interest I think my reaction would be a genuine mix of astonishment and revulsion
Even if I didn't have a GF I just cannot imagine going back there, just... no. I mean she's still an attractive woman and sweet and all, but for me the wounds cut too deep. So that's kind of where I'm coming from, I can certainly see how someone (whether WAS or LBS) would have major trepidation about recon after years have passed. But stranger things have happened!
Hi AS,
Well it was a rather strange divorce for me. We were very close and never at any point did we hate each other. So I was and am open to R with her simply because I truly believe your problems were and are very fixable. Of course I say this because I was the major problem they eventually ruined our marriage so I know altering my behavior and maturing as I have in recent years that I could be the husband that she truly deserved. Also encouraging is that we both willingly accept blame and have spoken at length over what we did wrong. That helps too. So I could very much imagine us reconciled for these reasons. Having said that, there has been no R talk at all but I guess the writing is on the wall that it will inevitably be a subject that comes up. Of course it will have to be her that initiates it I'd say...but perhaps before too long we will get there.
Just the fact that she was initially so aggressive with contacting me, and of course her timing right after I moved out of Mary's, suggests to me that maybe there is a chance for us to try again. Hard for me to believe that being a skeptic...but I like to think there's more to this story to come. I just wish her cancelling didn't happen because that really set off my already-existing skepticism that maybe she just thinks we shouldn't talk again at all...it kind of shredded any amount of optimism I was starting to feel about R.
ITHurts, I didn't get to respond earlier but to me it sounds like your ex-wife was talking to a friend about her plans with you and someone told her to slow down and not appear too eager. It seems like someone else influenced her to cancel. Or maybe she really wasn't feeling well and didn't have a chance to look as beautiful as she wanted to be in order to impress you.
Have you heard from her again? If you told her you'll be working all week then my guess is you'll hear from her at the end-of-the-week.
Hi AS,
Well it was a rather strange divorce for me. We were very close and never at any point did we hate each other. So I was and am open to R with her simply because I truly believe your problems were and are very fixable. Of course I say this because I was the major problem they eventually ruined our marriage so I know altering my behavior and maturing as I have in recent years that I could be the husband that she truly deserved. Also encouraging is that we both willingly accept blame and have spoken at length over what we did wrong. That helps too. So I could very much imagine us reconciled for these reasons. Having said that, there has been no R talk at all but I guess the writing is on the wall that it will inevitably be a subject that comes up. Of course it will have to be her that initiates it I'd say...but perhaps before too long we will get there.
Just the fact that she was initially so aggressive with contacting me, and of course her timing right after I moved out of Mary's, suggests to me that maybe there is a chance for us to try again. Hard for me to believe that being a skeptic...but I like to think there's more to this story to come. I just wish her cancelling didn't happen because that really set off my already-existing skepticism that maybe she just thinks we shouldn't talk again at all...it kind of shredded any amount of optimism I was starting to feel about R.
If its meant to be it will happen. I think you are doing the right thing in not trying to force anything. DBing got you here, likely DBing will get you to the next level as well.
Thanks Nicole. No I haven't heard from her since. Your thought would make sense other than the fact that she said if I "was around tomorrow to give her a shout." Surely just the next day wouldn't be necessarily slowing anything down. The good thing I don't have to do anything.
I don't know why she did what she did especially since initially already having her our the first time...then she suddenly was free in Saturday Just a mystery but the best theory is cold feet I think.
Hey Guys,
One possibly significant thing I should consider here is that last weekend when we were supposed to meet was the exact 4 year anniversary of the bomb drop. This come weekend would've been our 17th wedding anniversary. Whether or not those dates were/is a factor on her mind is anyone's guess but I figured I should probably mention it here.
Interesting timing, and maybe? I know my W was very date oriented when we met. "This happened on this date." "That happened on that date." Etc.
However, in recent times she has been much less date oriented. Not sure if your wife even remembers BD date? Obviously your anniversary probably is still something she remembers though.
Hey Steve, yes the timing is strange and the only reason I mention it is because of the timing. It is strange. At this point however even if she does contact me to make plans for a night this weekend I am planning on telling her I have plans already. She has to give me more notice than a day. In other words, if she happened to text today (although I doubt it) to ask me over for tomorrow or Saturday I pretty much have to say I can't. Being available to her on such short notice would seem a bit too eager on my part for my liking. I wouldn't be comfortable with that. I'd probably just pick a different date further in the future and set that up with her instead.
However as I said, I doubt I'll hear from her this soon. She'll likely stay in the castle a bit longer now I suspect.
Yeah, I just responded to another poster that his WAW was probably feeling strange at being reattracted to him. Likely that is what is going on here too. I think this is actually a good sign, that she is feeling things she didn't expect to feel and it is scaring her.
However as I said, I doubt I'll hear from her this soon. She'll likely stay in the castle a bit longer now I suspect.
Yeah, I agree. I have a feeling she'll reach out again but it might be a few weeks.
We'll Steve I sure hope you are right my friend. The thought of her being attracted to me again seems to good to be true but maybe that's what is happening here.
Agreed AS, whatever happened in her head last weekend is sure to keep her away awhile. Of course as soon as she contacts me again I'll let you guys know right away.
Ok fully caught up on this thread. Thank you so much for putting this out there as it has given me hope in my situation. Your ExW sounds like mine. Also 100% think she is aware of the dates and they were influencing.
Hi Ste7e,
That's nice to hear that my story has helped you! That's why I take the time to update. I remember that intense pain and hopelessness of 4 years ago and I want to be sure to let those suffering through that hell now know that future and passage of time is true magic. It gets better for sure. My story here is an odyssey for sure. One day I might go back be read all my posts from day 1 here just for perspective. I have always come back here to update over the years with every single interaction or relevant news about my WAW so everything is journaled here in detail for the past 4 years. Hearing that it helps other have hope is just so great!!! That makes me very, very happy!
I don't think she has been influenced by the dates, and I don't think she is exactly scared the way you are all describing... I think there might be someone else on some level. Maybe she is unsure about him or is thinking about ending that relationship... I think she is attracted to you, and I think she jumped the gun in reaching out to you... Things were happening too soon, before she was ready... That's what I think is scaring her... She's being cautious... She doesn't want to make the same mistakes... She doesn't want her mistakes to hurt you...
--artista
Well Bluwave, here's the thing that complicates things for me regarding how I forgave her. I've learned that I, sadly, was the root of all that slowly ended our marriage. Not listening to her when she needed me, not seeing she was unhappy for a long time and I was too consumed in other things trying to make our finances better. This wenron for years and she stick it out as long as she could until one day she reached her breaking point. It was around this time that OM and all that happened. Although she is not blameless...and she always has said we were both at fault for our failed marriage...I do truly see now in hindshight that I essentially drove her to the EA by never being there for her emotionally for many, many years. She tried to hang in there and did longer than even I would be able to...but I still wasn't a man anymore. She lost her attraction for me because of my faults and even though I was her husband and she loved me, I was friend-zoned. So it tore her up.
So basically I didn't find it hard to forgive her, I did, however,find it very difficult to forgive myself for letting things get to a desperation point for her when all of it could've been preventing had I not been so oblivious. She never wanted to hurt me but she had to have a life...and I had to essentially get one.
Hope that helps.
IH, this does help. A lot. Thank you. I am so glad you are back here. It really is forcing me to look at my sitch from a different angle. It has been very good for me! I don't want to hijack your thread, so perhaps I'll touch on it in my own.
In terms of her reaching out and then pulling back, well I am afraid we are all doing a bit of mind reading here. As I read the posters comments, I find myself thinking, "well, yeah, maybe, but also maybe not..." Let's face it, until she tells you where she is coming from and what her intentions are, none of us can really know.
What we do know are the facts: she wants to see you and talk to you again, therefore she wants some sort of friendship, relationship, or possibly wants to know your position before she makes hers. Us all guessing and speculating on what her next move will be is just that - guessing and speculating. I don't want to get your hopes up and have you get hurt again.
I do agree about taking it very, very slow and cautiously. If your sense is she wants something or is only temp-checking, then go with that. Your instincts will not steer you wrong. If you find yourself obsessing a bit, then go back to DB 101 like the champ you are: detach and GAL!
You got this!!!
Blu
Thanks everyone! Yes I agree we are all doing some mind reading here for sure. I do want to say that she can't really hurt me again per se because I already have my own life and inamntoall used to living without her. I believe that one day she will realizr she belongs with me but whether or not it's too late by then is not my concern. I am certainly not waiting around for her. If I have an opportunity to date, I'm going to. I have no limits on me. Do I hope she comes back? Well sure I do but its not like I'm going to be miserable if she doesn't. Whatever is going to happen will happen.
Now as far as what's going on with her. Not sure she had someone else. She had only been home a few months now so even if she is seeing someone i don't know that it would be anything that serious. Also we mustn't forget that she opted to contact me literally less than 24 hours after I was single again. The more time that goes by the more I look back on that timing and think it had to be intentional. She also made a point to stop at my work and ask how my talk with Mary went. So there's little things like that. Also when I initially told her I broke up with Mary she asked why and I said I was tired of her BS and she didn't appreciate my awesomeness. She got a laugh out of the awesomeness comment and said something like "I hear you about people's BS, Peeps are full of it." That suggested to.me that she wasn't pleased with her relationship (s). Past or present relationships she may have been referring to is unknown but that remark sticks out in my mind to.
In any event thank you all so, so much for your insight and thoughts here. They mean a lot. We shall see what happens next on this adventure together!
Hi everyone.
Well I woke up a few minutes ago to a text from WAW. It was simply "LOL" and a picture of a Chiquita banana sticker. As a joke throughout our marriage I used to stick them in weird places on her for her to find randomly...such as on the bathroom mirror, on the TV, on her car keys, etc.
So I assume she was eating a banana this morning, saw the sticker, and thought of me. I haven't responded yet and will wait a few hours before doing so. Any thoughts on how I should reply? Hope everyone is well.
Interesting. I could think of worse things than bananas to be associate with!
I would reply in kind, after a few hours, with a picture of something and LULZ. Just mirror what she's doing.
That sounds like a good sign! Kind of odd though to just randomly text you like that. Maybe she had been waiting for you to contact her and then when you didn't she wanted to send a little reminder that she's still there.
Hard to say without mind reading. The text came in about 3 hours ago so I'll wait another couple hours and then reply with some funny comeback like...,"After 4 years you fianlly found the last one LOL!" or something along those lines I guess.
Be a man and ask her out for a drink dude.
If she accepts great shes interested. If she does not her loss and yo go back to no contact and move on with your life. At least you will know where you stand.
These childish games are getting you no where but in the friend zone.
Okay so here's the scoop. She asked what I was up to tonight. Told her I was working. I offered tomorrow (Friday) but she had plans. Then she came back and asked me about Saturday. I said okay I'll buy us dinner. She said cool how about take out pizza and she'll make us something to go with it. I said great. I said I'll bring a movie or something and she said great I look forward to it.
So as of now we are on for Saturday night...provided she doesn't cancel again.
We'll see if this all really goes down. I'll keep you all posted of course.
I highly doubt she will cancel again... Great for you, holding out for prime time! Enjoy;
Thanks Arista!
I have to say, even I thought it would be a long time before I heard from her again. Whenever I woke up and saw her name in my texts I was surrprised. Further, it was nice to see her share yet another happy marriage memory.
Never in a million years would I have seen this day be a reality...except in dreams. Yet here I am, slowly reconnecting with WAW.
Now R is still a ways off and certainly not a sure thing but the way she has been since I've become single is hard to ignore. She's been so persistent and consistent... especially since the first time we laid eyes on each other for the first time in 4 years...in keeping me close. It's pretty obvious to me at this point she is pursuing...and that's hard for my forever-skeptic mind to wrap my head around...like I'm waiting for the floor to drop out from under me.
In any event, I'll keep you my friends here posted.
Be careful about putting her on a pedestal. Remember she should be working hard to earn you back.
Take out pizza and she is making something to go with it.......
Take protection.
Thanks everyone! Yeah my plan for tomorrow is to keep all talk off the previous relationship. I feel we've had those convos the past two visits and we will just spend the night repeating ourselves. So I plan to steer convos away from that. I'll ask her about something current in her life and get her to talk about that.
The both of us sitting there another night for. 3 hours rehashing our shortcomings and failures in our marriage and apologizing to each other for our parts in the demise is useless now. I want to have fun with her again. I'm bringing a movie I know she loves that we used to enjoy together.
Again, this is all predicated on her not cancelling again. I'm not sold yet that this is really going to go down but we'll see in 24 hours whether I'm with her or posting here.
Thanks again everyone for your insight and thoughts!
Waiting with baited breath!!
Hi Steve!
Well last night went very well again. We had a very good time. We had dinner at her place and I had brought some beer. We talked of course but it was all good things. She did bring up the marriage a few times but I was sure to keep those conversations light in tone.
After dinner we decided to have some beer and then she broke out some tequila. She said she likes it because it doesn't give her a hangover. I told her that's funny because that had been my drink of choice the past few years. She replied that she knew that. I asked how and she said people would tell her things I put on my FB so at some point the past couple years I must have mentioned tequila on my FB.
She slipped many times again calling me by my full name which was her "pet" name for me. I could tell at times she was acting like she used to when we were married in terms of our interactions. At one point in particular during the course of conversation about how her relationships she's had let her down I was a bit shocked that she mentioned that her lovers didn't compare to me. I jokingly told her that's just because she was spoiled with me LOL!
I brought over a concert video I had of our favorite band and she mentioned she wasn't able to see them live in concert again when she was in Florida...that she "couldn't and wasn't ready" to go to a show without me. Ironically I had gotten to a concert the day before and I told her I would take her. She asked me if I thought that was a good idea and seemed uncertain and I said well yeah why not. I told her I just got the tix and that I haven't even had a chance to ask anyone to go yet. I could tell she wanted to but was hesitant so I jokingly left it up in the air by saying I would just ask someone else. Then the subject changed to something else. I did let her borrow some other concert DVDs we used to watch because she was complaining how I had all the DVDs since we split and she didn't have any.So I left her a few DVDs to borrow.
Overall it was a really nice night and visit. Nothing romantic happened and she did mention how she is focusing on her new job and home. I got the sense she had no interest in dating so she's likely not seeing anyone.Aside from her slipping and using my pet name there wasn't anything overt in terms of talking R. Things are still pretty casual with us.
One thing I forgot to do that I'm kicking myself for today was leave a banana sticker somewhere in her place! I purposely bought a banana yesterday and saved the sticker with the intention to stock it somewhere for her to find over the next couple days and I forgot!!! So disappointed in myself for that but I suppose I can just do it next time I'm over there.
So nothing heavy happened, nothing romantic, and perhaps it isn't supposed to happen yet this soon but I feel like it was a successful visit. What happens next is anyone's guess. I did just get a text from her as I'm typing this asking me if I got home safe. So I'll let her know all is well. Hopefully I handled things correctly...part of me wanted to just make a move on her but I think that would have ended badly...I just don't think we're there yet for that happen. I decided having more patience is a better idea.
I think I'm in her head even more now, at least I hope I am. Just hoping I handled things right by not being aggressive yet.
I just played it cool like I had no expectations of R or anything like that. I didn't think now was the time and didn't want to risk her locking herself in her castle again. I figured if I could get out of there while her drawbridge is left down that that was best.
Thoughts?
Oh and one other thing we did that I forgot to mention was record a video for hwr sister to say hi. She told me she told her sis that we were hanging out tonight and it would be cool to send a video to her of us to say hello. I was pretty close with her sister so that was nice.
I think your choice to hold back on any romantic moves was wise... When is the concert? If there is time, hold off on inviting any one else... See if exW mentions it... If she does, invite her again... If she doesn't bring it up again, then follow through with inviting someone else...
Exactly my plan Arista! I am going to hold off. Concert is a week from tomorrow and I was thinking that she will probably contact me about it. Of course I haven't a lot of time to wait but I'll give her a couple days. So happy to hear you think it was wise to not try anything...my guy was saying too much too soon. Just wish I'd remembered to stick that banana sticker somewhere for her to find this week! It would have been epic. Can't believe I forgot that!
Oh and I replied to her this morning and said yes I did get home safe. She replied back with thanks again for dinner and the company and included a winking smiley.
Yeah good move on playing it cool. I think she'll go to the concert.
Hi Steve,
Well I'm not so sure of that buddy...part of me can see her asking about it and another part of me sees her not. So as always only time will tell. Glad you guys think I handled last night pretty well. I feel disappointed for some reason today yet I can't put my finger on exactly why I do. Nothing went especially wrong or anything so I don't know why I feel this way. Maybe just expecting too much too soon.After all if someone told me 6 months ago that she would be so agressive in initiating these seemingly pretty regular meetups I would never have believed it.
I would say picnic by the lighthouse again.
V
Yes V I like that plan. I haven't heard from her about the concert. I was thinking of texting her and asking again but perhaps I should just ask someone else to go with me at this point. It's less than a week away. I just don't think contacting her is a good idea. Maybe you guys think otherwise?
I agree. You put the offer out and left the ball in her court. If you wait any longer you'll look to anxious. Just ask someone else. It will look good if she calls two days before and you got someone else to go. Make it a hot chick and post pictures of you two at the concert together on evil Facebook.
I think you should stick to the original plan and ask someone else at this point... If you offer again, and she says yes with reluctance, she may cancel on you at the last minute... That would be no bueno...
Okay that sounds like great advice guys. So here's my plan. I am giving her 24 hours from now to contact me on her own about it. If I don't hear from her by this time tomorrow my friend said she'd absolutely love to go with me. WAW knows who she is (although not personally) and she knows that before I got with Mary a couple years ago that this friend, whom we'll name Sue, and I messed around and hung out a lot....friends with benefits kind of thing. So Sue will likely be with me and yes, since it's painfully obvious that WAW has spies on my FB page...I'm sure a pic or two from the show with Sue will give her pause.
So that's the plan. Sound good?
Oh and yes Steve, Sue is very, very attractive my friend!
Yes Steve, I just have to be extra careful to be very subtle. Otherwise these things can backfire and be very transparent to her. Maybe like a dozen random concert pics of the merch booths, other fans, the stage, the performances, etc with judt one pic stuck in the middle of all the other random concert pics of Sue and I. Nothing overt. Plus WAW aside, I am pretty psyched for show!
I think WAW knows she will remember back to the last time we saw our band together back in August of 2014...just months after our split and about a month before she was moving away to Florida. I'm sure that's documented way back in this thread. The quick recap of that concert in 2014 is for that day we were a couple again...holding hands, hugging, etc during the show. She said something in reference to moving away soon at that show. She said something to me like "you don't make this easy." At the end of that night when I dropped her off we kissed for a minute or so and said good night. As I remember things went South again after that but I can't remember the exact details...but again I'm sure this story is told right after it happened way back in this thread from late summer 2014. I'm quite sure I probably was obsessing about it here.
The point of that concert story is just to steess the significance and lengthy history of seeing our band together...it had/has emotional meaning to her. This is why she outright admitted the other night that she never could bring herself to go see them in Florida...her exact words were "I just wasn't ready to do that." It was then that I asked her to this concert coming up. So there's some history as to why this is especially a "big deal" and not just some concert.
Anyway, I have a feeling it's going to be interesting over the next few days
I think it would be more subtle if you posted a few concert pics without including this other woman at all. Let her be curious about who you went with and then downplay it if it comes up. I'm sure she'll figure it out, but it won't be because you left a trail of bread crumbs. That would be my vote.
Yeah I am torn now. Maybe zues suggestion is a good one. Oh well, you have a few days to decide.
I surely can't be the only one curious as to what band this is...
I second Zues's comment. If you post a picture of yourself and OW then your W will see right through it, she'll KNOW you're doing it to get a rise out of her. It will backfire on you. But post a few random pics of the concert and maybe some comments about how awesome it was and it's going to eat at her. She'll be dying to know who you were there with. She'll probably poke and prod and pry and eventually find out anyway so you don't need to wave it in her face. It's better if you don't. After all, it's none of her business, right?
I was thinking Phish?
Anyway Ithurts this whole thread is a such a beacon of hope for us newbies who think the world has ended.
Agreed. There will be no posted photos of Sue and I. Strictly band shots and random concert shots. I think you guys are right. There will be no pic of Sue and I posted.
As far as which band it is...I'd love to tell you all but the both of us are known by many as huge fans and are associated with this band by many and I just can't risk this thread showing up in a web search. If WAW ever saw this entire thread it would be totally catastrophic.
Ste7e...I can't tell you how happy that makes me! Yes, I remember those hopeless, painful days very well. They seem like you have nothing anymore. No future is possible without WAW. But somehow one day it just doesn't hurt anymore. You learn to live with it. For me I just always held out hope that one day WAW and I would meet again. That day finally came a month ago or so. So yes it makes me so happy that newbies use my story as inspiration. My best advice to newbies is to think of the future and work on your own life. You just NEVER know what the future holds in terms of your WAW. I never thought she'd come back...but she sure did. The future is NOT at all what you picture it to be while in that intense despair... trust me. Hang tough and work on building your new life...so when it's your turn to meet up with your WAW...you'll have your full arsenal of confidence and will be ready for anything! Trust me!
I think you should handle it organically... If there's a fun or nice pic of you and your friend, then post it... Just don't do it to get a reaction... Be natural... You never know, additional info may reveal itself in comments your friends make... Are you going to tell your friend not to tag you in her FB stuff that night?
Hi Arista!
Well she'll do whatever I ask her bro
Sorry typo above...
Hi Arista,
She'll do whatever I ask her to. I doubt she would although she was going to post on my page with a pic of us at a concert we went to a couple years back. I wasn't sure if that was a good idea though. I think I'm just going to not post any pics other than the concert itself. She can wonder who went with me if she wants to. Part of me wants her to know and makes me want to post...but the other side of me agrees to not post anything with Sue...just the concert. I think that's the best plan no?
You guys, is this serious? lol. This does not read like a thread written by mature 40-somethings, but more like a group of teenagers trying to trick the popular girl into liking him! I mean think about it, IH, have you not already done the hard work of DB-ing? That was 4 years ago right? And even then, don't we learn not to DB to win them back or fool them into thinking something about us? The point is to take the focus off them and live for you.
Okay, so here is my difference perspective, because you are in a different position than most of the posters. Ever heard the phrase, "keep it simple, stupid!"? I don't think it really matters who you take and what she will think about them, what photos you take and post, and how that will affect her attraction to you. I mean what are you actually afraid will happen? ... Because your mental energy analyzing all these details is the only issue I see here. ... You are good now, you don't need to stress about all this!
Quite simply, who do you want to go with most? Your XW, right? SO JUST ASK HER! Quit playing games! Have no expectations and be confident. And if she can't go, no big deal, then you shake it off, ask the next person, and you still get to have a good time.
Ask the person you will have the best time with, not the hot girl to make her jealous. And if you happen to take photos and you happen to feel like posting them, then do so, but not for any reason that has to do with her or what she will think. None of these choices should be made based on what you think her reaction will be.
These are the actions of a confident and strong man! Ask the right girl for you and be okay with her saying no.
LIVE FOR YOU. No more games!
Blu
You make a lot of sense Blu...IF my ultimate goal here was simply trying to get WAW to go to the concert with me. That, however, is not my ultimate goal...R is. So the "games" as you perceive them, are essentially tactics to not appear needy or in any way dependent on her or any choice she makes. A "whatever" type attitude with her. The second that she sees me as needy, gone are my chances of increasing any existing level of attraction she has to me,; which again is the true goal here.
So yes, if it came down to me eventually having to point blank ask WAW for R, then yes, tactics such as you described being used in that context would be games at that point. There would be no pride to preserve and nothing to gain...it would be crunch time...R or no R time.
The current concert situation, however, requires me to merely enjoy my picnic by the lighthouse...which I will with Sue, it will be a blast.
So basically whether or not WAW goes to the concert with me is not at all paramount to my ultimate goal of R. It would be nice but I'm not going to ask her a second time 4 days before the show...that clearly reeks needy to me. Any hope of R is to let WAW see that I am happy with or without her and NOT needy. That I am confident and independent, which, all of the above, I truly am because of DBing...that's why I've kept coming back here to this wonderful site after 4 years of moving on.
So I don't see this as games...I see it as a plan of action to achieve R. Concerts and whatever else comes up are just means to an end. I'm not at a place where I need to make such rash decisions and guarantee reducing myself to a needy wimp who is so desperate to go to the concert with just her and her alone that he asks her a second time days before the show.
Yeah I'm pretty sure that method would destroy me in her eyes LOL!
Thanks so much for your lengthy thoughts Blu and taking the time to write. One thing you are right about is I love for me ...not WAW or anyone else. I traveled and endured a rotten ordeal and survived to be content with life again...and for that I am immensely proud of myself. I want WAW but I don't need WAW. That's what DBing did for me. Made me a man again who is happy with himself...not dependent on WAW in any way.
Stop, ok!
Everything you do will be visible, I know you think it's a plan not a plot. That's your view. A lot of what the LBS does is transparent to the walkaway. And to them it can seem more of the same, more control.
If and when W wants to R then you will know.
Let it unfold in time, cease being director and producer. It can backfire.
Flow.
My thoughts
V
I agree with Blu and V. What else are these than mindgames? Is Sue the best option to go with you, because she is an attractive girl so you can show it in FB or because she is the person you have most fun in this concert? The first is a mindgame, the second is not. Do you have a lot of pictures from events like this with other females as well or would you post them just to show it, with low amount of pictures prior? In the first case it would be appropriate, in the second one you would be pathetic. The sole fact that you planned this is rather pathetic. The fact is that it does not matter who you go into the concert with, male or female. Which brings me to my next point.
Being needy is not asking a person out multiple times. Being needy is not showing interest in someone who you find attractive. Being needy is that you ATTACH an EXPECTATION to it and convey that message via your actions, subtle cues or direct messages. You plan it beforehand and then subconsciously get hurt if the person denies you. When you attach no end result to the action, you cannot be needy.
Also, if Sue is an attractive girl that you find fun company and she probably is single, would you be open to dating her? Have you considered her feelings, is she just really on friend basis or possibly attracted to you?
You have lived 4 years without your WAW and to me it seems you have become a bit too attached again. Stop controlling what happens and live your life. I can see only three outcomes of acting like you have written. Either she sees you with another girl and makes too quick decisions related to you, thus acts from a need rather than a want. Or she sees right through this and finds it pathetic. Or she sees you with another girl and decides you probably were not really interested. I do not see an outcome where she finds you more attractive and wants to genuinely recon. Now, you can go with Sue of course but go because you want to, not because you want to rub it in your XWs face.
As always, this is my opinion.
Been thinking on this a bit so let me play devils advocate
What if the band is a trigger for ExW of OR
She hasnt gone to see them in 4 years after all
What if she has moved on from them and is into something new you hate
Peoples likes really change in 4 years
What if she thinks they are childish now
Are you still interested in her even if she cant be part of your band thing
The band should be your thing not your couple thing
My advice is dont ask her again and go with a male friend and post a lot of pictures of you just having fun being alive
Hmmmm very interesting perspectives here. Firstly yes I do have a lot of fun with Sue. We've always had fun together. Although we have gone beyind friendship in the past, we are just friends now. But yes she is a lot of fun to hang out with so that's why I wanted to take her. We've been friends since high school. So I asked Sue to go because she's gone with me in the past and we had an amazing time. Yes I have posted pics with Sue before as well as other women before I was in a committed relationship with Mary for a couple years. Then my posts were basically just typical posts of things Mary and I used to do as WAW was not really in my head at that time like she is now again. So yes in the past there have been photos of women on my page but also pics with my guy friends too.
WAW is still into the band. She had complained during my first visit with her that she didn't have any of their DvDs... that I had them all. So that's why I brought some DVDs over to her last Saturday and we watched a couple of them. She wanted to borrow a couple of them so I left some with her. So yes she still loves the band. Her reason for not going to see them in 4 years was that she "wasn't ready for that." That's when I asked her and she seemed unsure. So I didn't push the issue.
However even if WAW didn't like them anymore it wouldn't be a big deal to me. We certainly aren't defined by a band...it was just a ritual of sorts for us to go see them.
Having said that, I do see your points here. Maybe I'm just putting too much planning into this. I think what I need to do is just go about this the same way I did the past 4 years when I went and saw the band. Just go and have fun. It seems I may be backsliding a bit in my thoughts on this. Too much focus on WAW and not enough focus on how much great fun I'm going to have no matter who I go with.
So here's my plan...I'm not making one. I'm going to the concert and having a blast...just like I have the past 4 years.
My pics and videos from the show will be limited and only of the event itself so I can enjoy the memories made for myself.
I refuse to spiral out of control over a concert. It is ridiculous. I think it's best not to make a big deal about it anyway. I'll post the normal types of pics people post from concerts and that's it. I'm not going to turn my post into a "hey WAW look at me having fun with some other girl at the show. Too bad you didn't come" type of thing. I am very much looking forward to the show no matter who is with me.
Thanks everyone for bringing me back down to Earth before I did something pathetic and stupid. I truly appreciate your remarks everyone.
Probably for the best. My devious side makes me think you should slip one pic in there of Sue!
You guys, is this serious? lol. This does not read like a thread written by mature 40-somethings, but more like a group of teenagers trying to trick the popular girl into liking him! I mean think about it, IH, have you not already done the hard work of DB-ing? That was 4 years ago right? And even then, don't we learn not to DB to win them back or fool them into thinking something about us? The point is to take the focus off them and live for you.
Okay, so here is my difference perspective, because you are in a different position than most of the posters. Ever heard the phrase, "keep it simple, stupid!"? I don't think it really matters who you take and what she will think about them, what photos you take and post, and how that will affect her attraction to you. I mean what are you actually afraid will happen? ... Because your mental energy analyzing all these details is the only issue I see here. ... You are good now, you don't need to stress about all this!
Quite simply, who do you want to go with most? Your XW, right? SO JUST ASK HER! Quit playing games! Have no expectations and be confident. And if she can't go, no big deal, then you shake it off, ask the next person, and you still get to have a good time.
Ask the person you will have the best time with, not the hot girl to make her jealous. And if you happen to take photos and you happen to feel like posting them, then do so, but not for any reason that has to do with her or what she will think. None of these choices should be made based on what you think her reaction will be.
These are the actions of a confident and strong man! Ask the right girl for you and be okay with her saying no.
LIVE FOR YOU. No more games!
Blu
3
Agree 100% with this! For real, using social media and an event to make her jealous. Too high school.
Go, have fun, don't worry about pictures, or social media.
Just live. I really think half of this world has stopped living in the moment because of social media. It is very transparent.
Just enjoy yourself!
The center of the issue is that Ithurts has worked for 4 years to find a place of peace and happiness without WAW and he doesn't want to lose that. This is the most important thing. And not only doesn't this conflict with the possibility of R, it is a requirement.
WAW seems to be interested but cautious. Ithurts gets to feel the same way. He's not ready to pursue aggressively because he doesn't want to lose his balance. And the deliberation over little decisions seem to me to be less about manipulating her and obsessing and more about avoiding doing everything possible to avoid obsessing and manipulating.
I do think going with another woman whom you have had some history with is questionable, but in the end WAW had you, left you, and hasn't apologized or asked for you back or done anything other than send intermittent mixed signals and temp checking. So basically nothing. Whatever you'd have done if WAW had stayed in FL is what I'd do. She's the one who left you and if anyone has been playing games it is her, so if there's a game being played it's her move to show you something more serious is going on.
I know Steve but I think it's best I don't. Just keep it simple. Document a fun event with a few photos and videos and leave it at that. Who I went with doesn't and shouldn't really matter nor be a focus. Going to this concert needs to be about me living and having fun...and I know I will have a blast. I'm letting WAW back in my head way too much and it needs to stop right now. I don't need her to be happy and i need to remember that. I don't need to keep looking away from my picnic and staring at the drawbridge to the castle waiting for it to lower again. I need to simply enjoy my picnic since everything I need to be happy is already on my blanket in my picnic basket.
The center of the issue is that Ithurts has worked for 4 years to find a place of peace and happiness without WAW and he doesn't want to lose that. This is the most important thing. And not only doesn't this conflict with the possibility of R, it is a requirement.
WAW seems to be interested but cautious. Ithurts gets to feel the same way. He's not ready to pursue aggressively because he doesn't want to lose his balance. And the deliberation over little decisions seem to me to be less about manipulating her and obsessing and more about avoiding doing everything possible to avoid obsessing and manipulating.
I do think going with another woman whom you have had some history with is questionable, but in the end WAW had you, left you, and hasn't apologized or asked for you back or done anything other than send intermittent mixed signals and temp checking. So basically nothing. Whatever you'd have done if WAW had stayed in FL is what I'd do. She's the one who left you and if anyone has been playing games it is her, so if there's a game being played it's her move to show you something more serious is going on.
Yes this ^
Well said Zues and you are exactly right. All of this planning here is to make sure I don't make mistakes. Just making sure all my t's are crossed and I"s dotted to avoid games. You describe it perfectly sir. That's why I have taken no initiative to arrange meetups...it's been all her pushing for that and that's how it should be in my opinion. I don't text her at all unless she texts first. You seem to have my sitch figured out because that's exactly what all this planning is for..to avoid making a mistake.
Hi Guys,
Just woke up and saw that WAW texted about an hour ago telling me she was off today and in my town helping one of our old friends and asked me if I could help her get something from my work. I should add that she addressed me using my full name...which you may have read previously was what she called me during our marriage.
Should I be agreeable and meet up with her today? How should I reply to this?
Are you free today? or is this something you will have to schedule in?
Hi Maika! No I'm off today too and I'm fairly sure she knows that from our previous plan- making.
You were a little vague so I may be missing something but I think it's a go. It seems like what you'd like to do, and while you may not want to pursue at this time there's no harm in accepting her invite. You've demonstrated you're not sitting around waiting for her call in the way you've declined other invites due to conflicts, etc. But there's no law that says you always have to be busy. If you're not, you're not. As long as you're not overly enthusiastic and trying to stretch out your time together you'll be fine. Show up, help out, say it was nice to see her, and that's that.
Okay thanks a ton Zues. Okay I'll meet up with her and play it super cool just as you described. I'll also be sure to be the one to say I have to go after awhile as well. I probably won't want to leave of course but I will force myself to. I'll reply to her now.
Let us know how it goes! ... I was thinking the same thing. Help, or don't help, if it's what you want to do, but not for any reason of proving a point. She is leading the way and I don't see you pursuing at all. There may come a time when it is safe for you to extend invitations (perhaps the concert was one), but my sense is that you will know when that time comes. You seem to have very good insight on the dynamic happening with her!
Blu
Remember you're still on the castle grounds having a picnic. This is her coming out to the edge of the drawbridge but she will probably run back in and raise it again. It'll be like this for a while. No expectations!
I think you should meet up too... I wonder if she will mention the concert...
Thanks guys! You are the best. Love you guys!
Yes Blu, I think you are right. I will know when the time is right to ask her out or to hang out. For now I just follow her lead. She's reaching out very regularly blnow on her own so that's great. As I said I never text her or initiate anything. Just like you said Blu, I'm sure I'll know when it is safe to do that.
Exactly Another Stander, I always think of Vanilla's posts about that. I realize she is coming out on the drawbridge and will likely run back in. I am just fine with that as there is no rush here. It takes as long as it takes to get her out of the castle permanently. I'm just fine with that.
Yes Arista I am wondering the same thing...if she'll bring up the concert. We'll see! Of course I'll keep you all posted as to what goes on today.
Thanks to you all for being there for me!!!! xoxo
Hey Guys,
Okay so I wasn't able to get what she needed in time before she left town so I met up with her anyway and she said to just bring it over to her house tonight. So I am headed to her place in a little bit. She is working on a garden at her place and asked me if I wanted to help so I said sure. So I'll let you know how it goes.
At her house now... update later. Banana sticker planted too!
I'm in the minority here but I would have voted that you make other plans and turn her down tonight. I would have been very apologetic that you couldn't accommodate her but left out what your plans were. Id be afraid at this point that it seems as if you are always available for her.
But anyway, ship is already out of harbor. Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Hey Guys,
We'll it went well but I kept it short and sweet. Only stayed about an hour or so but it was nice. She taught me some stuff about gardening. She mentioned how she's sick of men and how disappointing they are. She threw in a few of our memories.
Also very interesting thing she mentioned was her childhood friend was coming over. She said she wanted to cancel him but felt bad. She said she wasn't planning on me coming over.
I laughed it off and said well don't you think he's going to find it incredibly strange you're hanging out with your ex-husband??!! She said I don't really care what he thinks. So I replied with okay, I could care less, as long as you're not uncomfortable because I can leave. She said no, no you don't have to leave, he will just have to deal with it.
I guess the guy is disabled and she hangs with him on Fridays. So now I'm incredibly curious what this guy looks like. So she continued gardening and we continued to visit.
She thanked me for bringing what she needed several times. I told her laughingly you're welcome and I'm glad you appreciate it because I had to rearrange my schedule to get it done. Then the dude showed up and I had to contain my laughter. There I was dressed perfect, new sneakers, looking amazing...and there's this unshaven guy with a big grease stain on his pants. Hahahaha. I felt so amazing in that moment. So my phone was inside charging and went in the house to get it and use it as my out to leave because now I saw the guy and that's all I wanted to see LOL! So I said I had to take off.
She really didn't want me to...I just knew that. Her body language was screaming for me to stay. It's hard to describe really...since this was essentially a last minute plan of hers for me to go over there...it seemed like she seized the opportunity to have me come over earlier in the day...but had no plan to cancel on this dude. So I go to leave and she comes over with her arms open wanting a hug. So I casually hugged her. I said good luck with the plants, proudly grinned at her, threw my sunglasses on,and left.
I probably should've split before the guy got there but I had to see what he looked like. It turned out to be a good decision to stay because me and this guy standing next to each other must've looked like night and day to her...and I left knowing who she really wanted to spend the evening with tonight.
So that was an adventure!!! Anyway we'll see what happens next. Nothing about the concert which is fine (I'm actually glad really since it's too close now for me to not have already asked someone) and that damned banana sticker? I stuck it inside her shower!
UPDATE:
Just got a text a few seconds ago from WAW...here it is...
"I'm sorry we couldn't hang longer. I didn't think Jim was definitely coming.
I didn't just want your help. I did want to hang with you but I couldn't cancel with him. He doesn't do anything all week. So I'm kinda his only thing. His only night out."
So I think it's fine that you went tonight... But do be careful that you don't become her last-minute Friday night thing... Nice banana sticker placement!
Haha thanks Arista! I remember I was SO disappointed when i forgot to plant it last time LOL! She's going go absolutely crack up standing there naked tomorrow morning LOL!
Yeah I feel really, really good about today. I was in such total control and it felt obvious to me. Pretty proud of myself actually! Looked good and acted cool!
Uhoh you're thinking about her naked!
Interesting text. I think she is regretting you left. Anyway the concert is going to be interesting. I think her pursuit will really pick up after you didn't push for her to go after the initial invite.
Agreed Steve...just as I described in my post before she texted that. I can't describe it but "knowing" her like i do I could just tell she wanted to hang out with me. Then that text comes in out of nowhere and my hunch was proven true. Make no mistake my friend...I'm in her head BIG time tonight I think!
Hahaha well apparently WAW is taking a very late shower this afternoon LOL! I just got a text with a pic of the banana sticker in her shower with
"You're awesome!!! Lol"
I replied to that with simply a winking emoticon. Then she replied with a kissing heart emoticon. Think I'll just leave that one be. I'm not sending her a kissy face back, that's for sure.
It seems like it Steve. At least she reacted as I'd hoped she would although yhe kissy heart face thing kind of shocked ne so I'm not going to reply to that.
Yeah totally do not reply to that
It is just a Fly fish in the water
Yup...not bitin'...the concert Monday is now my focus! Enough WAW work for one weekend I think. I need my space LOL!
The picnic at the Lighthouse.
V
That is YOUR picnic, your interesting sandwiches not going eating hers.
GAL.
V
Hi Arista,
Is that a good WOW or a bad WOW?
Yes indeed V, thank you. I'm not straying from the picnic now as it sure seems to be working. That drawbridge keeps coming down and she keeps coming out; more and more frequently. So I'm definitely holding my course. I also like the fact that she has initiated 100% of all contact thus far. I never text first no matter how many days go by. Mainly because I make a mean picnic sandwich!
Just an update guys...just got to the concert and WAW just texted and said to "Have fun tonight!!! Rock out for me" with a winking smiley. Just wanted to keep you all updated.
Have a great time IH! I think you need to change your screen name
Thanks Orange! I had a blast and the show was great! Really had a lot of fun!
As far as WAW's text goes... any suggestions how I should reply? I haven't replied at all since she sent the kissy heart face on Saturday after finding the banana sticker. Then the text she sent last night when I was at the concert. I should reply with something no?
I'd probably do something open-ended, like "Show was great, I'll tell you about it next time we talk."
I would've replied last night with just a thumbs up. But yeah, it would be rude to not reply and a bit game like. Maybe something like:
Last night (thumbs up)
This morning (thumbs down)
I just replied and said "thank you they were fantastic as always and I was surprised with they opened with (song title)"
I just replied and said "thank you they were fantastic as always and I was surprised with they opened with (song title)"
Good response. Just stick with the "friendly neighbor" vibe for now.
And.... time for a new thread! Once you get over 10 pages start a new thread with your last post in this one having a link to the new one, and the first post in the new one having a link to this one.