Hello all.
I am 30, i met my wife when we were both 26, things moved very fast (shoulda been a red flag) but i was quite smitten.
This woman was PERFECT. she was all i ever wanted.
Within 6 months we moved in together, another 8 months later (april 2014) she was pregnant. She didnt tell me about the child, and sucessfully hid it from me all summer, i didnt find out until October, and our son was born in Jan of 2015. DUring all this I proposed, and with a new baby and the honeymoon phase still in effect we were excited to move forward. Then we hit some rough times. We had to move out of our house and ended up having to stay with her mother in a 2BR condo for 9months. Not Ideal. things went a bit south.
Then in June of 2016 we got a new apartment, all by itself with a nice yard. Our wedding was 3 months away. All was well. She was so happy.
We got married in Sept 2016 at a beautiful ceremony. Things went well through Christmas (her B Day is Xmas Eve).
Then in Jan of 2017 she got a new job at a high end salon. New friends, new social circle.
She became very cold and distant very quick.
I was unaware at the time but in Jan 2017 she modified her online presence to appear single (we had only been Married 4 months at this point!!!)
She put the bait out and really pulled away. Our sex life died, she became very sullen and argumentative.
All summer went like this. i became increasingly suspicious.
In Sept of 2017 she left for a friends birthday party and never came home that night, or all weekend.
I grilled her about it and she told me she just got drunk and stayed at her friends because we had fought at 1AM when i called her wondering when she would be home.
One month later in Oct, she had been on her phone tons. I told her "show me your phone, i want to see your messages"
She said no.
I asked "are you cheating on me?"
she nodded.
the next day she went to stay with her mom. and left our 3 year old home with me.
She hasnt come back.
At the end of Decemeber i told her i was leaving our shared apartment if she didnt come home. SHe didnt so i moved to a friends house.
She had told me the affair was a one night stand, and it was over and she was just staying at her moms for "space and time to think"
She was continuing the affair.
She continued to lie to me, even though i knew she was still with him frequently and even sleeping over his house with my 3 year old son IN HIS BED!!!
I filed for divorce but have it on hold. We havent spoken since JAn 24th.
I have gone cold and not reaching out to her. We do all our swaps for our son through her mother (who is just as crazy....)
I have since learned a lot about limerence and narcissism.
Any shared experiences or opinions would be so helpful.
I can type out more in detail in another post, as i am at work currently.
thanks.
S
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Thanks man. I will look into these when i get home later.
I will also get a bit more detailed about my situation.
If anyone has any questions, im an open book.
I have done a lot of research already and have a pretty good game plan to work on this. I really dont want to get divorced, but its kind of hard not to justify that when shes living with another man and we arent even started the divorce process........
From Oct - Feb i was ADAMANT on fixing my marriage, id still like to think that might happen but i gave up on false hope a while ago.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Thanks man. I will look into these when i get home later.
I will also get a bit more detailed about my situation.
If anyone has any questions, im an open book.
I have done a lot of research already and have a pretty good game plan to work on this. I really dont want to get divorced, but its kind of hard not to justify that when shes living with another man and we arent even started the divorce process........
From Oct - Feb i was ADAMANT on fixing my marriage, id still like to think that might happen but i gave up on false hope a while ago.
I know how you feel. It is tough. My W never moved out, but she was very obstinate for the first 4-6 weeks. About 6 weeks in I started to see her soften. A lot of that was because I think the wind came out of her sails in relation to the OM (which was an online EA since he lived several states away) as he seemed to pull back. And then she didn't see an easy path to divorce, finding a job (she is a stay at home mom), and being able to get her own place.
I can tell you that in the vast majority of the cases a relationship that begins as an A doesn't last very long. So her current situation could change at anytime. You need to read Cadet's links and just focus on being the best you that you can be.
My biggest thing i am stuggling with right now is Divorce.
the last time her and i spoke (Jan 24th) she told me for the 2nd time she wanted a divorce. I have never wanted to do this, despite the fact that she is living with her AP at the moment.
I filed on Feb 28th because i felt the situation was irrecoverable, and a lot of my family was pushing for me to do so.
I have since begun to have second thoughts. i know how bad both my and her decision making is within the first 6-9 months of my finding out about the affair. We have our "First Appearance" next week. We still havent spoken since Jan 24, and i have no idea where her head is at at all.
I am considering putting a hold on the divorce or withdrawing it. I dont know if she would have no reaction, get angry or what if i were to do that.
I want to wait until limerence ends and the dust settles. Once she has settled into a routine now that she is living with AP, i have a feeling the veneer is going to wear off of their relationship very quickly.
Its a mess, he left an engagement for this, and she destoyed our family, all for an affair less than 4 months after being married to the man she has a 3 year old son with.
I just dont get it.
Any advice on how i should handle divorce? i dont want to yet. i feel like i am jumping the gun, and only doing what she and others told / want me to do.
Oh man, I am so sorry for you and your son. She sounds narcissistic. You're so young and have so much life ahead of you, have you considered that it's perhaps a sort of warped blessing that she showed her true colors so early on? Like you seem to know already, this affair will likely end soon too, but if she's not willing to fix herself it might be wise to think hard about taking her back as she's likely to repeat this behavior. I'm sending you lots of good thoughts, buddy. Hang in there for your adorable son and get outside and do stuff for yourself too!
JaseP.
I am almost certain she is Narcissistic. This presents a bit of a juxtaposition for me.
Do i give up on the abuse and walk away, or do i stick it out and try to help my wife, who is technically "Sick"?
Better or worse, sickness and health. you know?
JaseP.
I am almost certain she is Narcissistic. This presents a bit of a juxtaposition for me.
Do i give up on the abuse and walk away, or do i stick it out and try to help my wife, who is technically "Sick"?
Better or worse, sickness and health. you know?
I think the thing is to learn as much as you can here, about boundaries and such and only take her back if she works on herself and becomes a better person, if that never happens then you become the person that only a fool would leave.
And she might be a fool.
Still struggling with he fact that e wont speak to me. Not sure how to proceed with divorce. Or to put to on hold
You believe your wife is just experiencing limerence with her current guy. But what if that's what she did with you?
I suggest you look up "borderline personality disorder". It may be relevant.
OrangeK, you will not get anywhere being so focused on her, her behavior, and what may or may not be causing it. You can only control you so control you! Be the best you that you can possibly be!
She'll either come around or she won't. But nothing you say or do in an effort to change her will work. She has to do her own work and want to change. You can try to influence that by following good DB principles. See Cadet's links, read them 2 or 3 times.
Hey all.
I posted in Newcomers recently, wanted to get some advice.
My wife fabricated a story about me denting her car back in Jan, and it resulted in the state taking out a temporary restraining order on me. This was totally false and fabricated.
She has not reached out to me at all during this time, and has taken the opportunity of no contact to move in with her affair partner (who she has been seeing since 4 months after our wedding, about a year ago now)
the no contact is driving me nuts. the last time we spoke was outside a marriage councilor meeting that went very poorly.
She told me she wanted a divorce back in Jan, she never filed.
I ended up filing in late Feb. but i honestly dont want to go through with it. not until we have had a chance to talk, and let things cool down.
I have no clue how to proceed moving forward. Do i continue with divorce? Put it on hold? Withdraw it entirely?
I want to fix our marriage, but she clearly doesn't want to.
I want to raise our 3 year old together, but she has found a replacement for me there too.
this [censored].
S
have you been able to see your 3-year old? are you sharing custody at this point?
Yes we are, her work schedule is too busy for her to not need my help.
All of our swaps for our son have been done through her mother these past 3 months due to the unjustified TRO.
I have no clue how to proceed moving forward. Do i continue with divorce? Put it on hold? Withdraw it entirely?
I want to fix our marriage, but she clearly doesn't want to.
I want to raise our 3 year old together, but she has found a replacement for me there too.
You can't proceed to move forward you have a RO. As for continuing with the divorce, that's up to you. We can't make that decision. Sounds like you don't want to. Sounds like you want some control.
In order to get some control, you have to relinquish control.
At this point, nothing is clear except that she wants you to stay the heck away. Do this, stay away.
Why do you want to save this marriage to this crazy W that lied to get an RO?
Because i know how her mind works, It was an avoidance technique she implemented after i caught her at her AP's house.
Rather than confronting the reality of the mess she made, she fabricated to BS to make sure we didnt have to speak for a while.
Ive been Reading Sandi's Rules.
All awesome stuff,
my question is what if i had been doing the begging and pleading for a few months (which obviously blew up in my face)
And i do believe she has some sort of PD. Be it borderline, NPD, or some other Cluster B. i have no clue.
Ive been Reading Sandi's Rules.
All awesome stuff,
my question is what if i had been doing the begging and pleading for a few months (which obviously blew up in my face)
And i do believe she has some sort of PD. Be it borderline, NPD, or some other Cluster B. i have no clue.
No matter what you have been doing or what you are doing,
time to change and start doing what is suggested here.
Because i know how her mind works, It was an avoidance technique she implemented after i caught her at her AP's house.
Rather than confronting the reality of the mess she made, she fabricated to BS to make sure we didnt have to speak for a while.
i repeat RR's question... Why do you want to save this marriage to this crazy W that lied to get an RO?
because that's how her mind works? she is willing to put you in a legal bind and you are okay with it because that's how her mind works? i think maybe you're kind of crazy too... seriously...
at this point, you don't have to do anything regarding the D, but you do need to carry on to become the best version of you that you possibly can... don't waste this total black out trying to figure out how to connect with her... use it for YOU... focus on YOU... and on your child... you cannot trust your W on some pretty deep levels here... not only does she cheat on you, she takes out a RO against you... she doesn't even have the decency to have a conversation with you... that's cruel, selfish...
mis dos centavos...
--artista
She has not reached out to me at all during this time, and has taken the opportunity of no contact to move in with her affair partner (who she has been seeing since 4 months after our wedding, about a year ago now)
So what have you taken this time of no contact to do?
How are you different today than you were in January? How do you want to evolve moving forward?
I am alot different. In Jan i was still begging, pleading and asking all the "why's" in the world.
I have gotten back into exercise, re-focusing on my career goals, spending time with friends.
I know i am doing much better, physically and mentally than i was in DEC and JAN for sure. I look better, feel better.
I just still get waves of rage / pain from the sheer betrayal of my marriage and family.She was completely remorseless and blamed everything, including her affair on me.
The difference i see is that most people talking about the WAS's are still in frequent contact with them.
My wife straight up discarded me, for another man, who she is now living with, but she never seemed to have any interest in divorce other than telling me twice she wanted it. When i said i didn't want to divorce and told her if she wanted to she would have to do it herself, she never took an initiate to file or start the process. After 2 months on being discarded i finally fell to peer pressure from family and filed.
I am now very much having regrets about that after reading about some of the DR techniques here.
I feel like i jumped the gun in filing, before giving her affair time to fade off and lose its limerence.
OK, more than likely she is like a lot of WAWs/WWs and is hoping you'll do the dirty work of divorce for her. So if your goal is R then I wouldn't do the heavy lifting of the D. Make her do it.
People's actions speak louder than their words. I can say I am going to give you a million dollars until I am blue in the face. You aren't a millionaire until I give you a million dollars. (Unless you already are a millionaire!)
So likely she is keeping you as plan B in case OM turns out to be a creep. Which is highly likely. As many around here say, the D doesn't usually happen in these cases until the LBS gets fed up and move it forward.
So are you fed up? Or are you still hoping for R? If the former then move forward with the D. If the latter then do not.
The difference i see is that most people talking about the WAS's are still in frequent contact with them.
My wife straight up discarded me, for another man, who she is now living with, but she never seemed to have any interest in divorce other than telling me twice she wanted it. When i said i didn't want to divorce and told her if she wanted to she would have to do it herself, she never took an initiate to file or start the process. After 2 months on being discarded i finally fell to peer pressure from family and filed.
I am now very much having regrets about that after reading about some of the DR techniques here.
I feel like i jumped the gun in filing, before giving her affair time to fade off and lose its limerence.
It may fade. It may not. My ex married OM, so who knows.
What do you have to gain from proceeding with the divorce? What do you have to gain from pulling it back?
To me, divorce or no, it doesnt really matter much while shes living with another person. I kind of believe that divorce is just the status update we make to the government. Frankly, the R you had is already dead, so what difference does it make how and when it's reported?
That said, that doesnt mean that you shouldnt keep hope alive for a potential future R with her. Just means that you would have to start over whether or not you are legally married.
Thank you. that is what i needed to hear.
We have our "first appearance" coming up this week.
I already have a motion to place on hold and a motion to withdraw all drawn up.
I was planning on waiting until after the "First Appearance" to see what i would do regarding continuing vs. stopping / withdrawing divorce, as this meeting will be the first time her and i have been in visual proximity since the TRO was issued in Jan.
I may give it a week or so after this meeting to see if she reaches out, contacts or anything of the sort.
She got all angry back in Jan when i said i wouldn't file, she said "just do it already, we dont have a marriage"
Mind you this was all while she was still claiming the Affair parter was just a friend and that they only slept together once, despite the fact she knew full well i was aware of everything that had been going on.
I feel like if she REALLY wanted the divorce she would have filed herself sometime between Oct (2017) and Jan (2018), but she didnt.
I have a feeling that with her still "happy" (i can see plain as day she ISN'T happy, in the few photos ive seen) with her affair partner an order to hold or cancel divorce would just anger her, but at this point id rather have her not get her way and have to face the music of the situation she created herself, She is very very non-confrontational and as i said i believe the TRO was just a very extreme avoidance technique, same reason why she wasnt ever willing to discuss the affair or or relationship, and why she left our home as soon as i found out about the affair.
Any advice in dealing with someone who will go all the way to self destructive behaviors in an attempt to avoid confrontation?
OrangeK, there are no guarantees, but if you don't want D then don't pursue it. I know you filed already, but that doesn't mean you have to follow through. 25 posts a statistic sometimes that something like half of all D's filed in CA never go through.
I have a story to share with you that is VERY similar to your sitch. A good friend of mine was married, 2nd M for both of them. No kids together. His W suddenly went rogue WAS on him, decided she was done, wanted nothing to do with him, left him and almost immediately moved in with an OM. They sold their home and their business, split the proceeds and they didn't talk at all for over a year! I mean nothing- no talking, no texting, no emailing. Total radio silence. Guess what happened, she started reaching out to him, asking how he was doing. For a while they just texted back and forth, then she wanted to have lunch with him. Then dates. Anyway just to show how crazy life is, they have been back living together for a couple of years now and are happier than ever. They never did get D'd. I can't say your outcome will be the same, but I CAN say that radio silence is sometimes EXACTLY what is needed even though it doesn't "feel" right.
In some of your experiences, how long has the WW affairs lasted? (i know this will vary)
My WW has been seeing her OM for about a year now, her and i separated since Oct. and they have been living together for about 2 months now. I have this feeling like the new relationship is losing its shine now that they are moved in, settled in and living a "Normal everyday life" together.
She gets bored and dissatisfied easily, i just never saw the red flags myself when i was with her. It wasnt until i had to go dark and GAL that i was able to see certain aspects of her personality.
Ive seen a few photos of them (i was shown these, didnt ask to see them, in keeping with GAL) and she looks unhappy, or at least Like shes just "tolerating things" as opposed to bathing in the glory of limerence of the relationship like she had been a few months ago.
Due to the TRO, we haven't spoken in months (since Jan 24th)
i think she may have reached out to temp check or at least in regards to our son recently if she knew I'd be able to respond, but due to the TRO i cannot so i think she has just left it alone, but thats just speculation on my part.
I guess my question would be, how long have other WW situations lasted before others WW's cracked a bit and started reaching out to them?
Do certain events play a role in the breakdown of the OM relationship? like moving in together? spending all their time together as opposed to less frequent "secret" meetups / dates?
Does she miss our home? Our family life, now that shes replaced me with someone else?
(admittedly a downgrade {which i have heard is common with Affair Partners} , not trying to be jealous or vindictive, just a fact. the dude is in poor shape, not attractive, lived with his parents until they got an apartment)
I feel like she never intended to actually have this blow up to what it is. I Feel like her original intention was to have the affair and not tell me or have me find out (obviously) and she would have done one of two things.
1.) took the "time and space" she had been asking last for to "fix the marriage" last summer (during the affair), to continue her affair, have fun with it, and eventually come home and pretend like nothing happened. the whole Cake scenario.
2.) to take the "time and space" to fade away and not come home, and pursue her new relationship with out all of the drama, exposure and lies that ended up happening because i became suspicious and called her out on infidelity 6 months into a marriage.
Either way, i get the feeling now that she has backed herself into a corner and has to be with this guy (she cannot handle being alone or staying for any length of time with her mom, which is where she went when she first left out home in Oct.)
and now she feels just as trapped as she may have felt during our relationship that lead her to pursue an affair to begin with.
My son has finally made the connection this guy isnt "mommys friend" but is taking my place, and where my son used to say he liked the OM, and he was his friend, now he says OM is a "bad man" and "i dont like him". so i feel like this is going to also add stress over in their new camp.
I know everyones experience will differe from my own and each relationship / affair/ marraige is different, but i feel like these types of affairs do tend to follow some patterns in reghards to timelines, emotional responses and outcomes so i would appreciate any shared experiences or advice.
So far i am doing well with No Contact, despite the fact i never wanted it and it was forced on me legally. It has been a blessing in disguise. My son and i are closer, im healtheir (i lost 40 lbs from Oct-Feb).
Hitting old hobbies, the gym, work, my fire/rescue volunteer stuff. So I MYSELF, am doing well, with theexception of some low points or low days when i miss her, miss being together as a family, or when i hear about all the fun things WW and OM take my son to do that i cannot afford.
Thanks again to everyone helping, im staying strong and waiting.
Still waiting to see how things go at "first appearance" for divorce day after tomorrow before i decide to move forward with D, put it on hold or withdraw it.
i did the signature thing. lol
Either way, i get the feeling now that she has backed herself into a corner and has to be with this guy (she cannot handle being alone or staying for any length of time with her mom, which is where she went when she first left out home in Oct.)
and now she feels just as trapped as she may have felt during our relationship that lead her to pursue an affair to begin with.
i am afraid this is you lying to yourself... the truth is--as far as human nature goes--people will do whatever they have to do to be with the one they want... she took out an RO on you to be with the OM... if she changes her mind and wants to be back with you, she will figure out a way to do it... heck, she could take out an RO on OM...
you have had NC since January, yet you are fully attached to this W who treated you like $h1+... go ahead and opt for being her Plan B... maybe she will choose Plan B at some point... but it's only until Plan A comes to fruition...
better yet, take this GIFT of NC to FOCUS ON YOU AND YOUR CHILD... GAL... really! you have this time to really suck the marrow out of life... to live to the Nth degree! get to that place where you can feel confident in letting the chips fall where they may because no matter where they fall, your life is going to be AWESOME! you can do that!
--artista
You got together very fast.
Things seemed perfect.
She got bored of you and started cheating just 6 month into the marriage.
Your wife can't stand to be alone.
She has extreme outbursts of anger.
These are all symptoms of a mental illness called Borderline Personality Disorder.
She is not going to come back. You are deluding yourself. If she came back, then she'd leave again as soon as her emotional high wears off.
Get professional help for yourself and for your son, because you are being damaged by her. Move on with your life for your son's sake.
I'm sorry.
Although i agree the likelyhood of her coming home and maiintating a healthy relationship are pretty slim, i dont thnik she has BPD.
She doesnt ever really have angry reactions to things. She is very passive aggressive, and non confrontational.
The only thing i think i mentioned that could be construed as an "angry outburst" is the implimentation of the T.R.O.
that was not done in any angry fashion, manipulative, yes certainly, but there was never any anger. Anger isnt really part of her MO.
She will avoid at all costs, lie, and manipulate, but its always done in a discreet and careful manner.
i spent a lot of time looking into personality disorders, and though she may have some traits, i have found the stories here more accurate to my situation.
in my personal opinion, she got cold feet after the fact, got bored and unhappy, started an affair she didnt intend on getting caught in, and now that she did everything she has done has been to divert attention away from the mess shes made or to lie to make it look different than it is.
All of her reactions speak to me of desperation, fear and lacking better options at the time.
I am just GAL'ing and focusing on enjoying the spring time with my son, i may go on a few dates. Just focusing on self improvement. I will update here as things develop.
"First appearance" for D is tomorrow.
angry outbursts aren't a necessary trait of BPD... she does seem to have extreme reactions... on top of her slim chance of returning to you, that you make excuses for her, make allowances for her poor behavior/character, make that slim chance just about anorexic... you get? you are weak option B... no bueno for you...
--artista
Artista,
You have made your point quite clear on how you think she operates. I have stated several times i am doing my own thing. i have disconnected. i want to make my family work for my sons sake, if she is unwilling to participate or put effort into that, than so be it. She can do her own thing, i know that i am a good husband, a good father and a good man. If she chooses to be alone, or with OM, thats her prerogative.
The way she hurt me, lied, and caused all this drama is her mess to clean up. If she ever decides to come and work on things, i will be here to discuss them, however any sort of R of our M will require colossal amounts of effort, dedication, honesty and transparancy from her to achieve, which i personally don't believe her capable of, but im willing to give the benefit of the doubt, and time. Those things i have in abundance.
If i meet some one new during this time that becomes a rel relationship, i will pursue that.
I am focused on my son and myself.
I have observed traits of BPD or NPD in her but you nor i are a medical professional to definitively make that call.
I owe it to the vows i spoke and the family we share to at least give her time to go on her destructive journey and whatever outcome she comes out with, i will be there to help her parent, be it as a spouse or a friend. I refuse to give in to vengeance hate and apathy on behalf of my son. He deserves to see his father as the rock in the tide, the immovable object faced with an unstoppable force.
He needs to see his father as a stoic symbol of honor and patience. that is what i shall be. I will be the pariah of his pain if i need to, if i need to take more punishment myself to spare him, i will do that.
I now have my MIL texting me asking about how we plan on filing taxes. I cannot legally speak to W, or be in the same room. If this was a priority it could have been brought up several times over the past 3 months. SMH.......
Artista,
You have made your point quite clear on how you think she operates. I have stated several times i am doing my own thing. i have disconnected. i want to make my family work for my sons sake,
let me be more than quite clear... i want you to make your family work too... it is my point of view, mainly based on my experience as a former Wayward Wife who made her way back to her family, that you are not helping your cause... i see you hurting your chances of saving your family... telling yourself things to make yourself feel better about your situation is not helping you... making excuses for your cheating wife is not helping you... unless your are honest with yourself about your situation, you may as well be a fish without a bicycle, because her without you is just like that... you get?
--artista, who is bowing out...
bueno suerte... adelante...
I am open to advice.
What do you see that i am doing that are hurting my chances of saving my family?
Let me be blunt in my question then.
In your opinion, What specifically am i doing wrong vs. what am i not doing that i should be??
My question, My WW has twice asked me for a divorce, and gotten angry once when i put it on hold the first time.
If she wants out of the M, to be with OM (shes living with him)
why doesn't she take the initiative to file D papers?
Why make me do it, and now I'm regretting filing after finding this forum and all the advice about waiting and being patient.
I am now considering another hold, or withdrawing them completely.
Even if D is inevitable, I think its only fair the person who wants the Divorce should be the one to get the ball rolling.
Seems like shes avoiding taking responsibility for the decisions she made and lied for months about.
Thoughts?
My question, My WW has twice asked me for a divorce, and gotten angry once when i put it on hold the first time.
If she wants out of the M, to be with OM (shes living with him)
why doesn't she take the initiative to file D papers?
Why make me do it, and now I'm regretting filing after finding this forum and all the advice about waiting and being patient.
I am now considering another hold, or withdrawing them completely.
Even if D is inevitable, I think its only fair the person who wants the Divorce should be the one to get the ball rolling.
Seems like shes avoiding taking responsibility for the decisions she made and lied for months about.
Thoughts?
Because part of the WAS script is for everything to be your fault.
Try reading this thread
Midlife for Dummies Also best to stick to one thread until 100 posts, your threads were merged.
Ok, got through the first appearance, which was less than i expected. W was there but we didnt cross paths, as her version of the first appearance was done via video thanks to the TRO.
Lots of emotions i had packed away came bubbling back up on the drive back home.
i still feel forced or coerced into this, but it feels like its the course things are going to take regardless of what i do.
So on with the current path i guess, im still wrestling with putting it on hold till the domestic thing is cleared up and my name is cleared from wrongdoing i did not commit, thereby simplifying the divorce process.
Also, strangely my In-Laws (as my wife doesn't talk to me and i cant talk to her) just now, on April 11th asked "how were you planning on filing your taxes together"
I explained that this will be difficult as her and i cannot be in the same room. I the offered to do it on the phone with my Mother in Law and file online, she never replied to that option and is now asking me to forward my W2's to my father in law so he can file for a deadline extension.
Why is it they only want to do things on their terms?
i told them im not sending digital copies of my W2s to anyone, and that we can do it the way i suggested or she can file herself (if she does this she will owe, so i know why they are trying to avoid this option)
Has anyone else experienced needlessly difficult and illogical behavior like this before with their WWS?
Has anyone else experienced needlessly difficult and illogical behavior like this before with their WWS?
Yeah, that is pretty much their MO. 95% difficult and illogical behavior, with 5% of cogent behavior. Some are even higher percentage in the first category. It goes with the territory.
I did get some advice from a guy that wrote an "avoid divorce" book. And I kept trying to keep it at the forefront of my mind. He said to give your W space as she goes through this and know that this is trying to figure out her own happiness. That is not a bad thing in and of itself because she might find that the truth that her happiness is her own responsibility and his little to do with you.
Just like DBing is to show the LBS that their happiness is their own responsibility. Relying on another for your own happiness is not healthy.
I am definitely doing my own thing. GAL'ing for sure.
Where i did not find DB resources until recently (after i filed D) i am now reluctant to continue with the D for now. Im much more keen on just stepping back and going dark, as we arent living together. I feel however, if I put a hold on the divorce at this point it is only going to provoke a bad response. Not that i entirely care about her response, the sole reason i want to wait on the D is to give some time for both of us and let the TRO blow over.
I wish i had found DB way back in September.....things could have been so much different.
I won't try to tell you what to do, but I agree with you to either cancel or place a hold on the D. Unless you get to the point that is what you want, but so far it doesn't sound like it is.
I think it will probably make them (W and In Laws) angry if i put a hold on it, but at this point i dont much care.
I am just concerned with what I am comfortable with.
I dont feel so thought the S has elapsed enough time, if she decides to contest my motion to put on hold, that will be a good indicator as to her mood, as we cannot speak.
I told her Mother that "her finances are no longer my responsibility, she should probably just file her own taxes alone"
after i offered 3 different options to get our taxes done, and none of the 3 were acceptable (at least that was my assumption as i never got a response)
I was asked to send my W2 to my FIL who said he "isnt comfortable speaking with me" due to the TRO. Which is BS. just an avoidance tactic. No way im sending my W2 to someone who wont even talk to me. lol.
Yeah. I am a firm believer that the one that wants the D should be doing the work to get the D.
Dropping off motion to place on hold tomorrow.
Time to put on her big girl pants and pull her head out of the sand and deal with the mess she made.
No skin off my back how long the D takes if it goes all the way.
Im just glad we're finally getting warm weather in NE so i can go enjoy the outdoors with my Boy!
Man, did yesterday ever set my emotions on a roller coaster.
On top of that the little guy was very sic last night, he was in fever dreams asking for mama and dada to be together again. Broke my damn heart.....
I even had some pretty vivid and painful dreams, and im not one to typically remember my dreams at all.
I swear sometimes Her and I share some emotional connection despite the distance and the fact we havent spoken in 3 months.
Sometimes i just get gut feelings something is in turmoil on her end, like i can feel when she is particularly upset or conflicted. Who knows.
OK, hang in there my friend. I like the attitude you have on the D. Also, file your taxes on your own. Make her deal with her own taxes. That is the consequences of moving out and getting a bogus TRO. It isn't you punishing her, it is you doing what you need to do based on the situation.
Thanks Steve, I will do just that! My plan is to be the rock in the tide. I will let all the waves she wants to send my way crash over me, immovable.
As far as the taxes are concerned, not my problem.
I offered solutions, im not bending over backwards to accommodate her disorganized last min needs.
Here is a copy of the templated letter i found, edited and sealed in an envelope. I will ONLY GIVE THIS TO HER IF SHE APPROACHES ME TO TALK. OTHERWISE IT WILL NEVER SEE THE OUTSIDE OF MY NIGHTSTAND.
If she asks my stance opinion or feelings regarding our M, i will hand her this letter, as it sums it all up.
If she does not ever approach me to discuss M, R and her mistakes and lies, then i have nothing to say to her.
that being said here is my letter.
Any edits or ideas are welcome as i can edit this and reprint it whenever, as i wont give it to her for quite a while,IF EVER.
"Dear Wife,
I regret that we find ourselves in the situation we’re in. I never imagined this would happen to us. I always thought we were and would always be the perfect couple.
I know that you’ve been unhappy for a long time, for many reasons, some of which you may not be sure of. Wife, I am concerned for you, I care about you and want to see you healthy and happy, and I will do anything I can to see that happen, under ANY circumstance. I’m aware that my behavior in the past contributed in part to your unhappiness and the emotional estrangement between us. I could have tried harder to make you feel loved, to respect your personality and dreams and to put you before things like the Fire Dept. or work. I’ve worked very hard these past 7 months to overcome that behavior, including my temper, not for you, but for OUR SON and myself. I wanted to be a better husband, a better father, but most importantly a better person. The changes I’ve made have improved my relationships with many of the people in my life, especially OUR SON. We’re closer now than ever. People can change if they’re willing to take a long, hard look in the mirror and hold themselves accountable for who they are. I did that and I’m proud of the person I’ve become and the person I see myself becoming in the future.
That being said, none of the issues we experienced as a couple justify or excuse the horrendous pain you have caused OUR SON and myself with your rash actions, selfish decisions and hurtful words and actions. The way you have treated me in the last year is inexcusable. (Since you deliberately made yourself “appear” single online since Jan of 2017, you were ACTIVELY LOOKING for an affair partner. Then you began dating OTHER MAN in April of 2017, and lying about it for months on months, even up to Jan 24th when you knew full well I was fully aware of the affair).
I am not here to berate you about the choices you made and the pain you knew you were causing well before I found out about your affair, or the layers of lies you told me to try and cover it up. I’m here to tell you that I am walking my own path now, without you. If you want to walk the path with me, you will have work to do. I know it would be worth it in the long run, but you need to believe that as well, and show it through actions, not words. At this time I cannot trust the validity of your words, because of how much you have deceived me in the past.
That being said, I still believe we can have a happy, loving, fulfilling marriage. I believe we can learn from our mistakes, grow from them and with effort and desire we can begin to slowly rebuild the love that was the foundation of our marriage and start to become a family again, for our sake and mostly for OUR SON. I believe we can have a marriage based on trust and honesty where we both feel safe sharing our innermost thoughts, feelings, fears and dreams. The kind of marriage we both imagined when we spoke our eternal. I’m not naive, I know there’s been a lot of damage done on both sides. We’d likely need the help of someone to guide us in learning better ways to communicate, meet each other’s emotional needs and begin to rekindle the spark of emotional intimacy between us as well as repair the damages to our families. It won’t be easy, but nothing worth doing ever is. It can be done if we both commit to being a family, honesty, transparency trust and love, but we both have to want it. Honestly, 100%. If not, then we can just continue the path of separating from each other that you began.
I’ve suffered tremendous pain from seeing our marriage fall apart, learning about your relationship with OTHER MAN, the deliberate and pre-meditated lies and manipulation you hurt me with during your affair and the damage to OUR SON’S ideas of family trust and honesty, and dealing with our impending divorce, but I never stopped loving you and I never forgot what a wonderful person you are and how much joy you brought me. That gave me the strength and hope to go on. But the pain became too much to bear and I could not continue to live the way we were, so I had no choice but to leave our home in Sandown for my own emotional wellbeing. This wasn’t an easy thing for me to do, but it was a necessary step.
I did not want this divorce. I wanted to be your husband, in every sense of the word. I wanted to hold you, talk with you, laugh and cry with you, comfort you, share the joy of raising a family with you. I wanted to grow old with you. As much as I wanted this, you have made it clear that you don’t, and as long as you feel this way, I cannot be a part of your life except as the father of our son, it is simply too painful. I cannot have you rely on me like a husband in any way, shape or form. I will not be available to do you favors, or help with finances or speak with you in any regard when you have a problem or need help with something. It makes me feel uncomfortable and used. Therefore, I must ask you not to contact me except for issues regarding OUR SON. This is something I believe is necessary to preserve and protect what little true love I still have for you before it slips away.
As always, I will continue to be the best father I can be and do whatever is necessary to insure our OUR SONS happiness and make his life as fulfilling and happy as possible.
If, down the road, you have a change of heart and decide you want to give our marriage a chance, I am open to discussing it with you and working out a plan to restore our marriage and make it what we only dreamed it could be, but I will need to know you are committed to our marriage and solid tangible assurance that OTHER MAN is no longer a part of your life, at all. I will always love you as the mother of my child but until that time, please respect my wishes.
With love from you Husband (for now)
HUSBAND"
[i][/i]
Update.
Filed the motion to hold, my mother in law has been strangely nice of late, which is a big difference from how she had been acting for the last two months.
Still no contact om W, still unsure where she moved.
Well. Ill update if requested. Signing off for now
OK, we are reading your posts, and will respond when we feel we have something to add. Please keep posting and keep us updated.
Thanks Steve, i wish there was delete post option here. I posted that because i was having an awful week and felt very alone in the dark at the time. Just a low point on the rollercoaster.
Still pushing through. Updates will come as they develop.
"Proudly it stands, until The World's End, the victorious banner of love"
~Blind Guardian
"The Maiden and the Minstrel Knight"
Don't feel bad. We all go through those periods. I know early on I was hitting refresh every other minute hoping for more input from sandi or AnotherStander or any of the resident experts. It is a lonely feeling, but you have to remember that these people have lives too. Keep posting, you will get the help you need.
I would love some input from The Guru Sandi.
Meditation is a new focus of mine, trying to be patient and stoic.
I don't recommend stoicism. At least not in private. Let your emotions be what they are. Don't hold them in. Be in control around her, but let those emotions out in private.
Oh when i am alone i let them flow.
The TRO is really driving me batty. I want to talk to her, badly.
"we are still married, we havent spoken in more than 3 months. I have no idea if you are healthy, happy, doing well, or anything. I dont want to be your enemy, im here if you need me"
Wish i could say that, and i highly doubt she would turn me in for contacting her because of the TRO, but i can't take that risk.
She didnt ask for the TRO, the City put in on automatic, but still. She hasnt fought at all to remove it, even just for the sake of co-parenting.
My Pub Defender said the Judge likely wouldnt remove it even if she asked anyway, but at our first court case the prosecution requested to extend the TRO. So i dont know if that was something W or the prosecution requested/ recommended.
I stupidly just liked old mooshy posts of hers to my page on FB From years ago ("you are wonderful, that is all").
It breaks my heart to think she literally posses Zero sentiment or remorse for what shes done, or it seems that way.
It stays in place as long as the B***S*** Criminal case is open.
First hearing on it was Late Feb, next one is first week of May.
There is a decent chance it will get continued again in May because I am not pleading G. We'll see. I think the prosecution has the steering wheel for the most part. The thing is, that if she decided not to show for the previous or the upcoming hearing it would have gotten dismissed right off the bat and that didn't happen.
Another question, Lets assume the unlikely situation of reconcilliation actually comes up and occurs.
SHE made this whole affair very public because she didnt really cover her tracks well at all, and a lot of people knew about it before I did.
By this point, most of both our families know, and all of our friends. If we were to reconcile, how the hell do you have a relationship after everyone else important in your life knew how messy, manipulated and full of deception things eventually become?
My family and friends would all most likely never truly forgive what she had done to me, and would possibly ostracize her, or at least quite scorn. However if there is a chance to save our marriage and keep our family together i want to seize that chance, and anyone in my friends or family should respect that decision and agree if I of all people are willing to try and trust her again (if and when she ever proved her intents through actions, not words) they should also give her the benefit of the doubt and let us try.
I don't see that a likely scenario.
How have others that have Pieced things together dealt with this hurdle?
Another question, Lets assume the unlikely situation of reconcilliation actually comes up and occurs.
SHE made this whole affair very public because she didnt really cover her tracks well at all, and a lot of people knew about it before I did.
By this point, most of both our families know, and all of our friends. If we were to reconcile, how the hell do you have a relationship after everyone else important in your life knew how messy, manipulated and full of deception things eventually become?
My family and friends would all most likely never truly forgive what she had done to me, and would possibly ostracize her, or at least quite scorn. However if there is a chance to save our marriage and keep our family together i want to seize that chance, and anyone in my friends or family should respect that decision and agree if I of all people are willing to try and trust her again (if and when she ever proved her intents through actions, not words) they should also give her the benefit of the doubt and let us try.
I don't see that a likely scenario.
How have others that have Pieced things together dealt with this hurdle?
That is very difficult to get over, I can't lie This is why most marriage experts tell you not to tell family and friends. It is hard enough for the two of you to deal with everything you know, but when others know it is almost as if each of those people also have to go through their own R with the spouses. However, I wouldn't worry about that. If R is your goal, work on that first and worry about how to deal with friends and family if and when that becomes an issue.
I feel like a weakling for liking things on her FB. i shouldn't have done that. Shows that I am still looking, attached.
I feel like doing so just gave more power to OM, even though I hardly know anything about the guy.
I have no indication as to how serious they are, if they are actually living together or not.
it's so hard to track progress and development of situation when i literally get zero information fed back to me.
All i can do is GAL, hope and wait.
And stay TF off FB.
I feel like a weakling for liking things on her FB. i shouldn't have done that. Shows that I am still looking, attached.
be careful that you are not violating the TRO by liking anything on HER FB...
Artista,
Thanks, i hadnt even considered that at first but thought the same thing after the fact.
again i HIGHLY doubt she would ever turn me in for it (she needs me to have our son half the time, couldnt do it full time, no way)
but still not worth the risk.
Plus it keeps the Persue/Avoid cycle going.
Stupid.
Yes, stay off of Facebook, unless you unfriend/block her. Seeing her updates, posts, etc are counter-productive.
She doesnt post anything new. Hasn't for almost a year, after she went into "Social Media Blackout Mode" (which is very VERY unusual for her, as she was a Social Media fiend when we were together, but it fits a pattern, she went "Dark" on social media in between her Ex before me and myself. When shes hitting a rebound that Social Media Blackout seems to be par for the course)
It was all tied in to her "Making herself appear single" to the online community (i didnt notice because i didnt have Instagram at the time)
She knew she wanted an affair, set the bait out there in Jan of 2017 and didnt get a bite until around March or April when she started seeing OM (who dissolved an engagement to be with my wife)
So I haven't seen anything of her posts or updates because she hasn't been posting.
OM on the other hand.....seems to be getting VERY impatient being the "Secret Boyfriend" and has caved and posted a few things on Instagram. Like him and my wife together with my son. On several occasions.
The exposure of my 3 year old to AP has gotten under my skin so bad. its awful, wrong and detrimental to his development.
Shame.
Hi OrangeK, just saw where you were waving at me on another thread. I will read your story and share some thoughts with you.
I very much look forward to it Sandi.
I cant imagine how often you have people asking for your attention. this must be like having a 2nd job!
Small Update: My in Laws are still asking for my info so they can file a tax extension, my Father in law is the one doing the paperwork (not surprising that W is having someone else do it for her, per usual).
This is now the 3rd time my mother in law has asked for me to give copies of my W2 and SS# so that my Father in Law can file the paperwork.
The issues is that i offered to meet F.I.L in person to do it on paper, which he refused to do "because he isn't comfortable speaking to me with the TRO in place".
Which to me makes no sense, as I am the only one who can get in trouble because of the TRO.
I want to be cooperative and not make waves, but at the same time i don't feel comfortable handing over my financials and SS# to someone who refuses to speak with me.
I had offered other options to get the taxes filed on time and They (W and her parents) didn't even so much a reply to any of those options.
Any thoughts on how i should proceed with this?
As I said before, I'd file my taxes separately and tell them she is on her own.
That's what i want to do but i looked and whether she files Married separate or married joint she still needs my info apparently.
I'm afraid you are giving me too much credit.......or placing too much hope in me telling you how to save this M. I'll be glad to share some thoughts, but first, I have a few questions. You may not see the point in me knowing, but somehow it just helps me to have a better overview of the situation.
Do you feel you know pretty much everything about her past?
Did she leave her ex to be with you? If not, how soon did you start dating her after she left her ex?
You said things moved really fast and it should have been a red flag. Can you explain what you mean?
Within 6 months we moved in together, another 8 months later (april 2014) she was pregnant. She didnt tell me about the child, and sucessfully hid it from me all summer, i didnt find out until October, and our son was born in Jan of 2015
Why would she feel she had to hide the pregnancy from you, since the relationship was good? BTW, you sound absolutely crazy about your little boy!
.
Do you know any of her friends from the past (before you met her)? Has anything ever been said about this behavior resembling other times in the past?
What did you mean that she needed you to keep your son half time b/c there was no way she could take him full time?
You asked how long a WW might stay with her AP or in a similar situation. To be painfully honest with you.......most of the LBH's who don't get a D before leaving the board......just drop out of sight and we never hear from them again.
. At least, that's what I have seen since the time I've been here.
One of the more recent success stories I remember was about two counselors. They had one child, preschool age, I think. The W was in an A and she even moved to another town, which meant the parents had to meet half way to exchange the child. However, she did not alienate him, the way your W has done in your sitch. I'll give you the link to his story. I think it took a couple of years before they reconciled.
Squiggy's first thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2526632&page=1I usually have quite a bit to say to H's who are trying to understand the mindset of a wayward W. I just don't know if this is the issue in your sitch. I mean, IDK if there are mental health problems involved. I have seen a couple of similar stories (the couples did not have a small child, and were second marriages) and the W would leave while the H was gone......and leave strict instructions to never contact her again. These type of cases can leave you feeling your hands are pretty much tied.......unless you can afford a shark lawyer fighting for you......what can you do? We can't force people to love us or work on the MR. These situations seem planned out, as if they have an agenda.....and they have other people helping to hedge them in and cut off access for the H. The H is alienated from his W.
IDK if it was her idea to make false charges against you......or someone else suggested it. The deeper the hole she tries to shove you into, the more you'll have to forgive........should she ever want to come back. There seems like something going on that has not been revealed, and that makes it complicated, for sure.
We had a poster a few years ago that started his own list of links to success stories. I'll copy/past, if you want to check it out. However, let me tell you this FWIW. You could read a hundred success stories and your situation would still be different from theirs........in some manner. If you are wanting to find the key to their success, or pattern your actions with theirs........get ready for a long,
long read. It took years for some of these people. This list does not include everyone, just the ones the poster was finding and bforming his own list. I wish I had kept notes, or a list, but I didn't.
Mozza's link:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2528689&page=1A couple places are blank, b/c he was new at the time and did not know some of the history. Mr. Bond's M reconciled.......his W was physically separated for four years. Mozza did not have a date by my name......but my M was saved. Can't give a precise date b/c I never physically left the house, but I ended my A and decided to stay in my M the same year I joined the board, which was 2007. It took me nearly two years for me to reach the point of wanting to "work" on my MR. There are at least two, maybe more, on that list (that I know about) that R, only to D later.
So, you are welcome to read them, but what you will find are people who learned to let go, take their eyes off their S and focus on a life for themselves and their children, GAL, and make personal improvements. They learned from previous mistakes. Those who later divorced, had spouses who (after a time) refused to be faithful/committed and work on the MR.
I'll post again. Hope you can answer some of my questions.
That's what i want to do but i looked and whether she files Married separate or married joint she still needs my info apparently.
Do you have an attorney? If so I would consult with them.
Steve, literally about to call him.
Sandi, i am formulating as concise of a response i can for you. thank you for reaching out.
I have tried to reply and only posted blank responses when i hit "Reply" i have it all typed out, waiting on a fix on why it posts as blank.
I've seen a couple of people having problems, but IDK what to tell you. May have to copy & past your typed page and try to send it again.
I think Cadet mentioned people posting from their phones might be having issues. Try it from a web browser on your computer
All of these have been from a PC. i tried on my phone also, didnt work. I wonder if the length of it matters? i have been able to post small ones, but if i try to copy paste my pre-typed response it wont post.
I have to copy and paste to reply to Sandi's Questions.
Maybe ill try numbering them.
I wonder if the length of it matters? i
No, I'm pretty sure 25yrsmlc and I have tested the board's endurance for lengthy posts.
Sandi, it seems to not like the Copy/Paste im trying to do with your first post. So bear with me, ill just answer them in numerical order here without Copy Paste.
1.) Do i know about her past?
Yes and No. I feel like i know as much as i will at this point, but there was a fair amount about her past i never was told when we first met and began dating. Some things she told me about (her EX and their breakup for example) i got VERY embellished versions of the truth.
2.) Did she leave her ex for me?
No, they broke up about 8 months before her and i met. She took off out of state for a few months after that relationship ended. This is the first time (After looking into her past) that i noticed she went into "SOCIAL MEDIA BLACKOUT" like she is doing right now. She seems to do this in between relationships, or at least she did in between her EX and I (while she was out of state living with some random guy ive never met). She is doing the same "SOCIAL MEDIA BLACKOUT" right now, she hasnt posted anything to do with our M, her affair, or her OM. OM on the other hand i think has gotten sick of being the "Secret boyfriend" and has posted a few things with Him, my W and my son.
3.) Things Moved Fast, Explain?
Yes they did. We slept together first time we ever dated. I have since seen a screenshot from her claming she was "falling madly in love" with me 6 days before we actually began talking..... our relationship went straight to exclusive dating, we moved in together within 6 months and she was pregnant at our 1 year anniversary, i just didn't learn about my sons forthcoming birth until 3 months before it happened. Looking back i feel like some of the rapid pace things moved should have been a bit of a warning.
4.) Why did she hide Pregnancy?
I honestly have no idea, i had mentioned before that i wanted to wait till about 32-33 to have kids, and i told her i was open to thinking about having a family together, we hadn't even begun discussing marriage at this point. She knew about the Preg because her Ex-best friend told me about a conversation the two of them had about her feeling our son move in July of 14'. I found out by noticing the bump in Oct (she never actually TOLD me about the baby). He was born the following Jan.
5.) do i know any friends from her past?
Yes, and they have since told me she has done things like this before. As i said any stories from her past ended up being altered versions of the truth when she told me about them. Like the mean EX who is actually a decent guy.
6.) Why cant she have our son Full Time?
Her job is very important to her, and shes in an apprenticeship program. Her shift is odd, like 10am-8pm. So even on days "she has our son" overnight i still am the one to pick him up from school and i drop him off with W's Mother.
She couldn't do full time parenting, she would have to quit her job which she wont do. Her mother is the only person in her life that can help with our son. She has no real friends anymore after the affair, and not much family locally. I am imperative in being able to maintain her lifestyle, after all if she has our son full time when can she party with OM??!
6.) I will not drop out of sight, whether i am successful or fail in R of M, i will stay here to report my story as long as people can heal from my Exp.
7.) False Charges?
I think she didn't know fully, or legally what would take place when she called to "report damages". The State automatically applied the TRO because she is my wife, Domestic.
Sandi, i reached out to you so i might better understand what shes going through, what caused her to stray, and if her limerence will end with OM. They have been seeing each other for about a year now. I found out about OM 7 months ago, this is also when she left to "live with her mom and take space"
We have been Full NC because of TRO since Jan.
im not chasing, im not begging, but i want to try and fix my M. For our son, and for ourselves. She needs help and is in a dark place.
The few photos ive seen that OM has posted she looks misrable, a fake forced smile on her face.
i dont think she ever meant for things to get this public or ugly, but she did that herself with her sloppy Affair cover ups. For crying out loud there was a VIDEO i saw of her at a party snuggling and holding hands with OM from back in Sept. She still denied having a relationship when i brought this up (in Oct).
the last time we spoke, at a very useless MC Meeting she said she wanted a D for the 3rd time but still hadn't done anything to initiate it. That she didn't love me anymore and "we didn't have a marriage"
She also was still claiming OM wasn't her "Boyfriend" (she would get mad when id call him that)
they weren't dating and were just friends. I had caught her at his house 2 days prior to that.
I look forward to your insight sandi and i will keep posting and GAL'ing.
S
Well, I have to tell you that I think there's more to this than waywardness. There are too many strange things, at least they don't make sense to me. In other words, she is repeating past behaviors. She was not forthcoming about her past, her pregnancy, and other issues.
Now, I am don't want to sound as if I'm passing judgement, b/c God knows I have no business judging anyone else.......so please don't misunderstand me, as I stumble around to express my thoughts. At times it sounds as if she had an agenda. She has been out of her first M only 8 months, and she's claiming to be madly in love with a man she hasn't even started talking to. Then on the first date she has sex with him, and IDK which one pushed for an exclusive relationship.......but my question is what's the rush? And, don't forget that she didn't want you knowing about her past. But the most confusing part of all of this is hiding her pregnancy for six months! I don't she hid it, or why. It just goes against what is considered "normal" actions of a pregnant woman who is in R with the man she loves. You are a better person than I am. I would have been so furious that I would have demanded an explanation! What did she say when you saw for yourself that she was pregnant? Did she deny it?
IDK why I am getting so worked up about it, except that her behavior is so unacceptable in an intimate relationship. Did her mother know about the pregnancy, or could you tell for sure? Do you know much about her parents? It makes me wonder who or what has impressed your W to keep secrets to this degree.
Does she have trouble trusting people?
Does she have trouble keeping a friend?
Have you seen your W manipulative in other ways or with other people?
Could she be considered a pathological liar, in your opinion?
You were not pleased with the MC. Why?
I wish I could be a lot more encouraging, or even give specific steps on what you should do at the moment. I don't know what's going on with your W. I've seen some bad behavior before, but this whole thing is too odd for me to say she's just a cold, hard hearted, wayward wife. She certainly shows wayward actions, but I honestly think it's something more complicated.
I think you got confused about a few of the things. the message saying she was madly in love was about me it was just a few days before her and I actually begin talking. Still odd but it wasn't about om it was about me. Same thing with the sex on the first date thing. That was me. I'm not sure really very many details about her affair with om at all because she only ever told me it was a one-night stand and then denied having a relationship with him afterwards I just know that was not the case. as far as the pregnancy is concerned she told me that she didn't know, it involved complex explanations about birth control and she explained it well and I believed her. I even explained what she had told me to other people when they called the whole secret pregnancy into question, I was convinced that that was the truth then we were just kind of meant to have a child I guess. A lot of other things were going on, I lost my brother 9 days before my son was born so needless to say it was a bit of an emotional rollercoaster around that time in our lives. she definitely has trouble keeping friends, seems to alienate social groups whenever she changes a relationship. she acts very nice and trusting with everyone she meets but yes I have seen her be manipulative with other people. If you would ask me six months ago I would have never said she was a pathological liar but now I would say it's a good possibility. as far as marriage counseling was concerned I was putting in a full effort I wasn't pleased because she just used it as a manipulation tactic. she was the most amazing woman for the first 3 years of our 5-year relationship. I thought they were just normal ups and downs as we progressed through things like I said we dealt with a lot of stressful things through our relationship. What makes the least sense to me is that we finally had things going well, we had gotten married we had a nice place that we were living in together we both had good career prospects for the future. I thought it was supposed to be the start of like the Golden Age of our marriage our honeymoon phase our adorable son was advancing through the toddler years. I literally thought it was everything she ever wanted. as soon as everything was settled in she seems like she just got bored and very unhappy and had cold feet after the fact. Maybe she felt trapped. Maybe she's narcissistic, who knows. it just really is tough because I haven't had a chance to even communicate with her in any way shape or form for months. I know she's still seeing om but like I said honestly she looks miserable about it but she could just be stressed out in general. as it stands right now I filed a hold on the divorce because I want Her to take some action in all of this. She has taken no responsibility for anything. I am just going to continue doing my own thing and enjoying my time with my friends that I have been missing out on and have been making up for big time and looking forward for some nice weather to finally arrive so I can get outside and do the things that I love like hike and rock climb. I plan on strengthening my focus on my fire department activities as well as that has been on the back burner for a while for me period last but not least I want to spend as much time with my son enjoying the age that he's at while it lasts. He's three and a half and it's a wonderful stage of his life and I'm just so sad that it has to be mired with this unfortunate emotional upheaval. I hope I clarified a few things for you and I will keep posting as things develop I hope I clarified a few things for you and I will keep posting as things develop thank you so much.
same thing with the pregnancy, that was all during our relationship. That is our son that we have together. She has not gotten pregnant with om, at least not that I've heard of, that would be quite the shock.
I think you got confused about a few of the things. the message saying she was madly in love was about me it was just a few days before her and I actually begin talking. Still odd but it wasn't about om it was about me. Same thing with the sex on the first date thing. That was me
I understood it was you. Sorry, that is just my style of writing.......and stating the facts.
Okay good. I didn't mean to think that you misunderstood I just wanted to make sure. What's your take on all of this? What do you think I should do? Can you give me any insight into what may be going on and her mind? I know that deep down she is a Sentimental person, and she is an amazing mother. I think she got really scared that her life was going to be boring and she felt trapped and just chose to deal with it in a very emotionally immature way
The link below is to the first thread where I described the mindset and behavior of the wayward W. You can read it and decide if you think it sounds like your W.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Currently, your biggest problem to moving forward in the MR is the fact she has placed a barricade around herself. As long as there is a R.O., there is no action, that I know, you can do.
Here is what I see with H's who come to the board. This is the last place they turn for help, so things are really bad by the time they get here. The H's are in panic mode and want to grab a fire hose and start putting out fires. When we tell them not to pursue and focus on themselves, GAL, yada, yada.........they probably feel like we are handing them a bucket full of air.
I wish I could tell you something different, but I can't. I have no miracle formula. She might as well be sitting in a fortress, b/c the law is keeping her protected from you. Your job is to do NOTHING that violates that R.O. If you get arrested, then that is going to cause more problems for you. Even if there was no R.O., I would tell you not to contact her, not to try and persuade her or convince her to go back to you. It doesn't work that way. If she went back right now......she'd put you through this mess again. She has a problem.......and you cannot fix it. All you can do is make yourself the best man and father possible. Give her time to do whatever it is that she needs to do. If she wants to go back to you, then she will break the ice and pursue you. Maybe you will want her back, and maybe you won't. Right now, you are wanting "to do" something........but you aren't really hearing we are saying. Move forward with your life, and stop be obsessed with something to
do to make her change her mind. Don't chase a woman who doesn't want to be with you.
Funny you say that Sandi, just in the last 2-3 days i have felt the weight of a lot of this lift from my shoulders.
like a light switch, i suddenly stopped caring if people told me what they saw about her online. I dont care where she goes or what she does anymore. I dont plauge my thoughts and stay up all night wondering on the what ifs anymore.
this forum has really helped with that. I wish i had found it much earlier on, as i may have been able to get a lot more accomplished in DB, but as you said you cant control others actions, and i no longer desire to do so. Convincing her i am what she needs would be pointless, not only does it make sense to say "be your best you and She and or others will want you, if you focus on yourself" but its really so true. If i was able to "Convince" her to come home and work on things, it wouldn't be truly genuine. It would be coerced, and in order to have any real healing, she needs to come back herself, because of herself.
i know my value, i have lifelong friends, good family, a good job, im a good dad and a good partner/husband. Im a public servant and a steward of nature.
I have skill, and value. If she ceased to see that, her loss.
I spent so much time being angry, jealous and bitter. What a waste of time and energy. Thank God i have paitent and understanding friends and family, i must have drove them nuts!
Im a passionate person, my vows meant the world to me. I wanted to be a one marriage guy, a family man. That was something i had to think about and change my stance on once i found out id be a dad. It was hard to do, but the second you hold your child in your arms, the chemical switches flip. I was sold right then and there.
If she cant see the long standing value in that, than so be it. She can be alone, or enjoy the fleeting shadows of love she will continue to chase throughout life.
I hope one day she learns the difference between "butterfiles" and love. Its sad to see her "chase the dragon" of limerence like this, i thought marraige and motherhood would break that streak, and i thought it had.
Tigers, changing their stripes, apples, and the distance they fall from trees and all that.
Ill keep you all posted as things develop.
thank you all for your attention time and support.
"Proudly it stands, until The Worlds End, the Victorious Banner of Love"
Blind Guardian
"The Maiden and the Minstrel Knight"
(ironically this was one of our wedding songs, but it was my selection, lol)
S
Wow. it still amazes me how quickly the emotions can shift. These completely random waves of anger/jealousy/regret/betrayal and injustice are so difficult to predict and manage.
GAL and NC are REALLY tough when you are, A.) completely unable to have any contact, even if you wanted it and B.) when you got no closure, no explanations, no remorse or regret or even tears from WW. She doesnt even seemingly care how our son is hurting over all of this, and if she does its likely "my fault".
Why do i still love someone i should in all honesty hate after all shes done to me?
The lasting effects of gaslighting and stonewalling are legit.
Emotional Abuse is no fun.
End Rant.
Funny you say that Sandi, just in the last 2-3 days i have felt the weight of a lot of this lift from my shoulders.
like a light switch, i suddenly stopped caring if people told me what they saw about her online. I dont care where she goes or what she does anymore. I dont plauge my thoughts and stay up all night wondering on the what ifs anymore.
Wow. it still amazes me how quickly the emotions can shift. These completely random waves of anger/jealousy/regret/betrayal and injustice are so difficult to predict and manage.
GAL and NC are REALLY tough when you are, A.) completely unable to have any contact, even if you wanted it and B.) when you got no closure, no explanations, no remorse or regret or even tears from WW. She doesnt even seemingly care how our son is hurting over all of this, and if she does its likely "my fault".
Why do i still love someone i should in all honesty hate after all shes done to me?
The lasting effects of gaslighting and stonewalling are legit.
Emotional Abuse is no fun.
End Rant.
I was going to caution you on the first quote above. It comes and goes. Then I saw your second quote and realized you now know this yourself.
Emotional swings are the norm. Finding ways to deal with them is the key. GAL helps tremendously. But nothing heals like time. You will find that as time goes on the first quote becomes the norm and the second quote becomes fewer and farther between. You just have to be patient, let yourself feel and understand the emotions you are feeling, and then figure out ways to deal with the down times.
Keep your chin up OK, there is light at the end of the tunnel!
Much of her work will be internal, but the results should definitely show overtly. She will not feel the need to change until she is convinced she has been very, very wrong. This condition usually doesn't come until she has suffered the loss of something very valuable to her, or an accumulated loss.
Sandi, this is from a post on Zeus's thread, i found this very interesting.
What type of loss or accumulative loss are you referring to? Examples?
In what ways will these changes show Overtly?
How long after "his work" becomes evident to WW, how long can you expect before you see "Her work"
Again, as always, no expectations on my WW. As you know the situation is pretty messy.....
Steve,
as always thanks for the pick me up!
GAL'ing for me has been getting back into table top gaming with my friends (D*D and MTG for those in the know). Wednesdays are my favorite as it is time for my D&D Campagin tonight.
Getting back involved with the Fire Dept will help a lot too i think.
I really need to just get the "forget about her and let her come to me IF shes going to, if not, EFF IT."
I know its her loss, i know its not my fault.
I just need to keep that in my head.
Workout session when i get home, gaming tonight. New day tomorrow.
I got this.
Ill keep you all posted. Next scheduled meeting / hearing is for the case involving the TRO, that is in 2 weeks from tomorrow. Then a hearing on the D later in May, which may not happen due to hold i filed for, I want her to do some work on this D if she REALLY wants it. Ill find out soon i guess.
God i hate court.
OK, time to start a new thread. Cadet will be along to tell you that so you might as well do it.
GAL and NC are REALLY tough when you are, A.) completely unable to have any contact, even if you wanted it and
it should be easier because you have no contact... but i know it doesn't work that way... the mind goes where the mind goes... but GAL and NC can eventually help with the desire to "know" what is going on with her... use GAL to help you steer your mind to more productive thoughts and ideas... until the day comes when you just don't care to know... it's hard... the idea of getting over somebody can be nice when you are in pain over the break-up... on the other hand, it can be scary to know that someday you will likely be over this person, and at the moment, because you love that person so much, you don't ever want to be over that person... ugh!
GAL and NC are REALLY tough when you are, A.) completely unable to have any contact, even if you wanted it and
it should be easier because you have no contact... but i know it doesn't work that way... the mind goes where the mind goes... but GAL and NC can eventually help with the desire to "know" what is going on with her... use GAL to help you steer your mind to more productive thoughts and ideas... until the day comes when you just don't care to know... it's hard... the idea of getting over somebody can be nice when you are in pain over the break-up... on the other hand, it can be scary to know that someday you will likely be over this person, and at the moment, because you love that person so much, you don't ever want to be over that person... ugh!
Well said. As mentioned in these forums it is a weird dynamic. Because you don't want to lose the person you do all the wrong things by being clingy, and push them away. Then when you finally get over them, you detach emotionally, and that's when they come calling again because once you detach they don't like losing their power. They want to R but by then you are moved on and over it.
Obviously works a bit different when you have kids since you are really never out of each other's lives.