Good morning,
Last week my husband told me that he wants a divorce.
First, let me give you a little background on how we got here.
We got married in our early 20's during the great recession. My husband graduated with a teaching degree and, because there were no jobs, joined the army. The recruiter fed him a bunch of B.S. and so instead of getting a commission, he went in as an enlisted.
We did not get a good duty station. He was very unhappy and was working in a very abusive environment. The stress left a toll on both of us, but we have always clung to one another for support.
Two years ago, everything changed for the better. My husband got accepted into the Officer Candidate School and I received an offer to go to law school. Everything was going great. We knew that things would have to be long-distance for a while, but that it would be so much better in the end. We quit our lease, loaded all our things onto U-Haul Pods (everything was coming with me since he would be leaving in barracks for a while) and went to drop him off at the OCS. That was when he got cold feet. He wanted to quit and come home and be with our three cats and I. He was sad. He was crying. I tried my best to comfort him, but there was no home to come back to anymore -- our lease was done, our things were going across the country, and I was going across the country. The next day he failed his entrance physical fitness test. He has never failed a PT test before that, and deep down I think that he did it on purpose. The school gave him 2 weeks to pass. He again wanted to quit. I again convinced him to stay.
Well, he stayed and he passed. For a while, things between us were going better than ever. Until he brought up children, that is. It was the end of my first semester at law school. I was stressed, I was tired, and I was under impression that our marriage was in a place where it could take a disagreement. He wanted us to try for children as soon as I graduated. I was begging to wait 2 or 3 years to give ourselves the opportunity to have a really good life together. The kind of life we deserved after all our hard work. Just the two of us - travel, spend time together, look for a house. He exploded. To him, this was a betrayal. He believed that I was lying to him and delaying just so we don't have kids at all. He believed that if he waits to have children, he won't be able to enjoy fatherhood. He told me that this is the only thing he ever asked for and his wishes, apparently, did not matter to me. At one point, he yelled something like "f*&$ you and all your dreams."
We made up after that, but he has grown distant, cold, and became disinterested in sex.
April of last year, while he was at the school that trained him specifically for his officer job, he told me he was done with the marriage.
I reacted exactly how the DB book tells you not to react - I begged, I pleaded, I cried, I clung. This man is the love of my life. It was like we were living in two different marriages. I was upset over a bump in the road, and he has forgotten everything good that has ever happened between us.
Last August, he has made some effort to reconcile. Again, I wish I had read the book. I wanted more than baby steps. I wanted a sincere apology and a promise that his appalling behavior will never be repeated. He told me he was trying.
Now, did I try on my part? Yes. I am taking 16 credit hours at law school (and was last semester as well). I live with my in-laws during the week and drive every week 5 hours one way to see him. When I am home, I prep him 3 meals and snacks for the week, I go work out with him, and I make sure that everything he needs to get done gets done: bills, appointments, calls to the cable company for a new router, etc. I have done my best to recreate a life for him that he has always had, all while driving 10 hours each week, taking more than a full course load, and carrying a 3.84 overall GPA. There are days when I honestly feel like I am going to collapse.
My husband? For the most part, he remained disinterested in sex, and when I'd ask him to call me or text me during the week, he'd always tell me that he's busy. Also, he said he no longer wanted children.
Last week, I told him that I was unhappy with the situation and that I needed things to change. He agreed and asked for a divorce.
The first evening, I cried and begged. Then I grew a spine. No matter what, he is not allowed to emotionally cripple me the way he had last year. Never again.
Then I found Michelle's books.
This takes us to the present. Our arrangement is as follows: we will get a divorce after I graduate law school and pass the bar. He continues to pay all the bills and does not begrudge me a dime. I continue to be the master organizer (I have, however, stopped cooking). He told me to not expect any marital fidelity from him, however, there has not been an affair, nor is there one in the works.
Last week, he told me that he loved me but that he wasn't in love with me. He told me that he will probably always love me on some level, but that we both deserve better. He even asked if he could come to the store with me before I left and gave me a hug before I took off for my usual 4 days.
I have honored all his wishes. I let him know that I got home safe (he asked me to). After that, I did not contact him all week (he asked me not to because he finds texting me to be annoying). When I came home on Thursday, I found a man who has gone back to what he was doing a year ago. He is obsessively on his phone trying to reconnect with old buddies from his enlisted days and OCS. He is very cold towards me (for no reason, might I add since I am being polite and cheerful, NOT affectionate). He makes an enormous deal about any casual touch. Since we still sleep in the same bed, occasionally, one of my extremities will end up brushing against him. It is not something I try to do, nor is it anything that could be viewed as even remotely sexual, and half the time, I don't know that I'm doing it. His reaction to this is "get off me" and "move." He gets really mad about it.
Yesterday, we had plans from last week to go to the zoo and a movie. He told me last minute that he wasn't going. I dressed in my business-casual best and went alone to both. I did not act upset about it. On my part, it was a smile and "Okay, I'll see you later. Have a good time!"
And that is where my confusion lies. Every time I respectfully and tactfully step back, I return to a man who is grumpier, more negative, and more hurtful than the man I told "have a good time" to. I cannot tell whether my LRT attempts are working. A part of me wonders if he just doesn't care. A part of me wonders if he expected a certain reaction from me that he's just not getting. But at this point, I'm not sure how to read this or what to do.
Today, I have a day-long hiking trip that I scheduled on MeetUp. After that, I bought myself a ticket to a movie. He does not know about this yet. In fact, I plan to take off for the day while he's at the gym this morning and let him wonder where I went. Am I moving too fast?
Also, I have not really been sharing with him about my week. Usually I tell him everything that happens and this past week a lot of good things happened for me, but for now, I keep my life to myself. Am I making a mistake?
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Why do you continue to drive the 4-5 hours to see him every weekend if he treats you like this? It’s oretty hard to call this LRT when you are putting forth a ton of effort to go see him.
And I would say it’s too soon to gauge the impact of your new behaviors. It’s only been a few days. I’d keep up with GAL and following Sandis rules.
And keep posting!
Hi Cadet,
Thank you for posting resources. I have actually lurked here for about a week. So, I read them all. Twice. I'm just not sure I am objective enough to evaluate his behavior in a productive manner.
I'm just not sure I am objective enough to evaluate his behavior in a productive manner.
STOP evaluating him.
Keep your focus off of him and put it on yourself.
Make yourself into a person that only a fool would leave.
He might be a fool but that is out of your control.
OK?
Well, Amoafwl, it's simple. This is my home and I will not be the one to leave. My things are here. Our cats are here. I will not let a raging a-hole drive me out.
Also, if I break this pattern now, there will be questions from well-meaning friends and relatives. I have had a hard enough time convincing my husband that he should tell no one. I'd rather not do something stupid and inadvertently air my dirty laundry out in public. In other words, I want there to be no questions from anyone.
That said, I am about to spend the next 14 hours or so M.I.A.
Will do.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Olya,
You are doing great! There is no time frame with LRT though because you cannot control your H's behavior or thoughts, feelings and emotions. He may never accept them.
Regardless if he does or not, you are being you...strong and confident.
I agree with the drive, keep doing it. One of my mistakes was exposing my dirty laundry to many friends and family.
You are way ahead of the game. Keep doing things together if he accepts, if not walk your own road.
Olya, time is a big part of this. If you are doing the LRT to only get attention you are doing it wrong.
Just like last time when drastic changes were agreed to on the fly, real lasting change is going to take time.
Read about detachment.
Read about GAL
I know you feel you have a life but you really need to prepare yourself to be apart. No this doesn't mean it is inevitable, but it also let's it sink into his head and heart.
Fast change is not real change.
Thank you so much for your feedback, everyone.
I just realized that I wasn't particularly clear with what has been bothering and confusing me about my husband's reactions.
So, last Sunday I told him that I was going to see a movie and asked him if he wanted me to get him a ticket (we previously had tickets to this film but had to return them because of his work). He seemed pretty happy about going and told me to go ahead and get him one. I did.
Fast forward to yesterday. First, he was very surprised by how I was dressed. I usually wear very nice business casual, it just happens to be when I'm not around him. He asked me where I was going all dressed up. I reminded him that I told him a week ago that I was going to go to the zoo. Since a week ago he indicated that he thought it sounded like a fun idea, I told him that he was free to come with me if he wanted to. He said that he might. When the time to go came around and I checked in with him, he told me that he was too busy and went in to work on his day off. I wished him a good time and went by myself. Before he left, he asked me what time the movie was. I told him and said that I'd pick him up after zoo. When I came home, he asked how the zoo was. I told him that I had a very good time but that it was very crowded so he was probably better off that he didn't go (he really dislikes large crowds). We chatted idly and he told me that he had a headache and did not want to go to the movie. I gave him some Advil, told him to feel better, cancelled his ticket and went by myself.
This morning he assumed that I was going to the gym with him. I said that I wasn't but asked him to take his own car since "I might go for a walk." (I did not want to be too specific about my plans for the day.) I said this with polite smile and wished him a good time. In response, he told me that I should probably take myself to the botanical gardens since I like them so much. This was not said kindly, nor was it meant to be kind. He and I used to go to botanical gardens all the time. In fact, he took me to a botanical garden on one of our first dates. We got married at that same botanical garden. Last couple of years, he has told me that he hates going to places like that. Part of it is because I take too many pictures when I'm there. Part of it, I'm sure is about control for him--he sees doing something that he doesn't truly feel like doing as a sign of weakness as opposed to as a way to reciprocate millions of things that are done for him. Either way, he has made it abundantly clear that botanical gardens are out of the question, and everything about his comment today was meant to be snide--there is no doubt about that.
So, my confusion is whether this is normal. He seems to want to be mean. He seems to want an angry or a hurt reaction out of me. Since our divorce talk last Saturday, I have been nothing but considerate, and polite. To the best of my knowledge, I have done nothing to bring about the turn away from awkward congeniality and toward whatever the heck it is that he is doing. Is this normal? Is this a normal reaction when the LBS tries to get some distance and has no problem doing things without WAS.
Olya, I'm telling you this as much as reminding myself. Over analyzing individual incidents is futile.
Remember that it is consistent change over time that will get noticed.
Listen I know you want to see a response quickly. We all get it.
Reexamine what Pursuing looks like.
Forget what H wants.
If H isn't interested in sex, something is going on. Obviously, I don't know what, but don't expect instant results. Stop expecting anything.
If H isn't interested in sex, something is going on. Obviously, I don't know what, but don't expect instant results. Stop expecting anything.
There is something going on. He has low testosterone. It's not something that I have made up by reading WebMD. I convinced him to go see a doctor last fall, and the blood tests showed what I had suspected from the start of 2017. My husband is not an old man - he is turning 30 at the end of next month. I sometimes have wondered if depression has caused it, but that would be my diagnosis, not the doctors, so it's not worth a whole lot.
He will not take medications to raise his testosterone levels because taking male hormones, even by prescription, would end his military career. He's also not doing a whole lot to help the situation by guzzling down gallons of energy drinks per week.
* * *
Update on my situation:So, I went out yesterday and had a fabulous time.
I went to the local coffee shop to buy some joe for the road, and, I am neither kidding myself nor exaggerating to you, every man at that joint looked up and stared at me when I walked in, and kept staring until I left. I'm only 28, and on some level I have always been dimly-aware that some of my mother's good looks have rubbed off on me, but I am not used to this kind of frank attention: usually, I'm with someone else, and more often than not, that someone else is my husband. It felt good to see that I'm not some discarded object.
The hike was great. I waked up a mountain and back - 6.8 miles in total. The people I met were fun and we will be doing this again at the start of May. One of the folks I met is now my new Facebook friend. He and I are roughly the same age and he organizes events like this often. I got the impression that, if I want to, I can do something like this practically every weekend (April ends up being a hiatus month for most people in the group, but then it picks back up to several times a week).
Afterwards I took myself to dinner, posted a little on this board, bought a birthday present for my sister-in-law, and went to see a movie.
In total, I was gone from home for 15 hours or so.
When I got home, my husband was already in bed, but my return woke him up. He pretended he was still asleep.
Around 5 this morning, he started back up with poking and elbowing me... and I just got so fed up with it.
First, having my arm next to his elbow or my foot against his leg is not an attempt on my part to snuggle, cuddle, or have sex.
Second, I run very cold when I sleep. He runs hot. At least one of my extremities will always end up either next to him or right next to him, thawing on the portion of the sheets that he had been warming. I have zero control over that because I am asleep when I do it.
Third, he has used this a year ago as a way to reject me without really being prompted to. If I touched any part of his body, even by accident like I just described, he would yell at me to get off him, flail, and attempt to storm off to sleep on the recliner in the living room. Back then, I'd beg him to stop and get a grip on himself. I'd ask him to calm down and stay in bed. I'd try to give him a hug, stroke his hair, and tell him to stop. That, of course, would only make things worse.
This time around, we have not gotten to the point where he is that far gone, but we're getting there and I can tell that he wants - itches - for the opportunity to get there. Well,
I am not doing that again and
I am not living through that again. During the week, I sleep 5 hours a night - I don't need this nonsense. So, I sat up, put my hand on his shoulder, and had the following conversation with him using my best calm and gentle voice:
Me: "Boo-Bear, do you remember how last week you told me that you don't mind sleeping on the recliner downstairs?"
Him: "Yeah, I thought about that, but it seems too late right now. Why?"
Me: "Because I'm tired of you poking and prodding me half the night."
Him: "Well, if you weren't trying to snuggle with me half the night or sneak up on my side of the bed, this wouldn't be a problem!"
Me: "You know what, I think I would like you to go sleep downstairs right now."
Him: "What!? Why?"
Me: "Because I would like to get some sleep."
Him: "Fine"
Me: "Do you want your pillow."
Him: "No, I'll be fine. We need a second bed."
He went downstairs and made himself breakfast. I was too awake to sleep, but I laid around on his warm side of the bed and relaxed a little. I feel great about doing this. Yes, I want my husband back, but I did not undertake LRT to be his doormat. When we got back together after last year's events, I told him that he can never do what he did again. I intend to keep that promise.
Today, he did not offer me to go to the gym and was extremely grumpy in general (to be expected). He is also avoiding eye contact. He asked me to move my car so that he could take his, and when I offered him mine because I have no plans, he told me that he might not be back before I have to drive out. That's the closest he has come to commenting on the fact that I wasn't home all day yesterday.
I have no idea what this will lead to, but I feel a hell of a lot better about myself than I had a year ago.
Update:
So, he came home early yesterday - long before I took off for the week.
All he seems to do with his time off is sit on the armchair, watch B or C ranked movies, and obsessively text his friend from his earlier duty station. (They're meeting up today to hang out, but it is a rare event. In general, H doesn't really do anything: Work => Gym => Home, TV, and text -- that is his life.)
When I try to talk to him, he becomes irritated, snappy, and impatient. I am not trying to engage in idle chatter, but we live in the same household and some talks need to be had. He has a work trip to Texas coming up and he is taking my car because it is new and reliable whereas his is getting traded in as soon as he comes back from deployment. Since I will have to drive his car next week, I think that I am within my right to ask about its current state, especially because it's not looking as good as it did when I took it in for service two weeks ago. I did not nag. I was not mean. I discussed the car and asked that going forward he bring up these issues with me as soon as they arise so that I do not have to scramble to make last-minute service appointments.
This conversation was short and sweet. It did not warrant iciness, or sulking, or irritation, nor was it socially-acceptable acceptable to reply to a text in the middle of it.
I feel like I'm dealing with a teenager who is throwing a tantrum.
I feel like I'm dealing with a teenager who is throwing a tantrum.
You probably are!
MLC is childhood issues, so yours is a teenager.
Wow! Your story is so relatable to mine. I am new here also and have yet to post my story (about to) but I also have a military spouse who a year ago wanted to end things, we got back to normal, and now right back to wanting out of the relationship. No affairs involved, just the ILYBNILWY frustration. Sorry I cannot offer much as I'm pretty much in your same boat, but know there are others who are feeling the same pain.
I feel like I'm dealing with a teenager who is throwing a tantrum.
You probably are!
MLC is childhood issues, so yours is a teenager.
He's not yet 30. I know that it can happen at any age, but this feels unreal. The 23-year-old whom I married 7 years ago was a far more emotionally-mature person.
My H is in a place where he does not accept the idea that he might be asked to do more or to do better. It doesn't matter how nicely or non-confrontationally this is put to him. He views any such request as rejection of him.
He has next to no relationship with his mother, who has been nothing but nice and supportive of us. She helped us move every time we moved. She helped us out financially. She has me staying with her during the week while I attend classes. His gratitude? Christmas of 2016, he threw a fit because I promised her that he'd empty a mop bucket for her. According to him, he felt disrespected and treated worse than a dog. This past summer, while he was still in the throws of his first hissy fit, he refused to come into her house and stayed in the car while I went in. He never calls. He'll have vacation in May, but he will not come visit her. The day that he and I sign our divorce papers may well be the last day she sees him or hears from him.
The relationships that seem to make him happiest are those which are most shallow. The great sum total of his current friendships can be defined as "people he texts stupid jokes to and occasionally goes to drink beers with." His friends are also consistently (1) younger than him, (2) single, (3) not as good looking as he is, and (4) not as educated or intelligent as he is. But they are in awe of him and have no real expectations of him. It's like he's trying to re-live the college days that he never got to have because he worked all though undergrad.
That lives me in a very precarious position.As much as I want to read him the riot act, I cannot, and it will do no good.
At the same time, I can do no right. I know what his reaction will be if I try to talk to him and reconcile -- he will reject me in the most hurtful way he can think of. Acting like I don't see how badly he is behaving and continuing to live my own life also produces nothing but irritation from him.
And this is my problem with the implementation of the LRT. The three outcomes listed are (1) nothing, (2) tepid curiosity, or (3) a spouse that quickly attempts to reconcile. There is no option #4: a sulky juvenile. How do I gage whether what I'm doing is only driving him further away?
Wow! Your story is so relatable to mine. I am new here also and have yet to post my story (about to) but I also have a military spouse who a year ago wanted to end things, we got back to normal, and now right back to wanting out of the relationship. No affairs involved, just the ILYBNILWY frustration. Sorry I cannot offer much as I'm pretty much in your same boat, but know there are others who are feeling the same pain.
I'm sorry. I wish we didn't have to meet like this. Has he ever told you that he cannot be open enough with you because you will not always be there when he is alone and needing you and so it is easier for him if he does not need you at all? Mine has. About a year ago.
I sometimes think that military spouses end up doing so much and taking on such an outsized portion of everyday tasks, that we become semi-parental figures. It hurts when mommy lets you down. More and more, I suspect that I'm "mommy."
In my case, it's my wife but YES, I think needing anything, including me, is one of her greatest fears. Perhaps this is part of the personality of people drawn to the military. She is afraid to need or be vulnerable, and has specifically told me that she does not want to be in position of dependence because as you said, there are times she simply won't have me, or whatever she is dependent on.
We met right after she returned from an Afghanistan deployment and it took me a long time to really understand what it is like for military members to have such large segments of their lives where it's just them and the basics. They don't have to worry about all the complexities of life while they're in the desert. Do your job, eat, gym, and sleep pretty much. It can be a hard adjustment where they get whiplashed back into all the craziness of normal life. When they have a spouse, I think we do take on a lot of this everyday stuff for them and keep it running. In my case, I think she is inevitably somewhat dependent (not necessarily in an unhealthy way) and resents it.
At the same time, I can do no right.
Acting like I don't see how badly he is behaving and continuing to live my own life also produces nothing but irritation from him.
I wouldnt judge your actions based on his responses right now. YOU are the one that knows what is right, not him at this point.
And this is my problem with the implementation of the LRT. The three outcomes listed are (1) nothing, (2) tepid curiosity, or (3) a spouse that quickly attempts to reconcile. There is no option #4: a sulky juvenile. How do I gage whether what I'm doing is only driving him further away?
To me, this feels like nothing....for now.
Change is hard, and you are acting differently. My guess is that he doesnt know how to react and things like sulking and anger and coldness come easily for him. Id say keep doing what you are doing. No matter what, I think it is making you into a stronger person.
Olya, it sure sounds like your H is going through some major health issues. Depression seems very likely given everything you describe, and the low T may be a contributing factor as well. I'm not an MLC expert, but it doesn't sound like he's MLC to me (usually there would be wreckless spending, affairs, a sudden interest in personal appearance, etc.)
It sounds like you are doing well at GAL although I would not call what you are doing LRT because you are still constantly around him and doing things for him. You mentioned that he's supporting you financially so it sounds like maybe you are doing this to maintain that support and if so I do totally get it. Just understand that your sitch is likely to be stuck in limbo for as long as you maintain this arrangement.
In my case, it's my wife but YES, I think needing anything, including me, is one of her greatest fears. Perhaps this is part of the personality of people drawn to the military. She is afraid to need or be vulnerable, and has specifically told me that she does not want to be in position of dependence because as you said, there are times she simply won't have me, or whatever she is dependent on.
We met right after she returned from an Afghanistan deployment and it took me a long time to really understand what it is like for military members to have such large segments of their lives where it's just them and the basics. They don't have to worry about all the complexities of life while they're in the desert. Do your job, eat, gym, and sleep pretty much. It can be a hard adjustment where they get whiplashed back into all the craziness of normal life. When they have a spouse, I think we do take on a lot of this everyday stuff for them and keep it running. In my case, I think she is inevitably somewhat dependent (not necessarily in an unhealthy way) and resents it.
Sorry! I assumed you were the wife. I try not to, but most military personnel are guys, so, sometimes assumptions happen.
I'm trying to make peace with the fact that I cannot help him deal with this issue if he does not want to. Willingness to get hurt is a prerequisite to feeling in love and to being happy. When people build barriers to keep out pain, they also keep out any and every meaningful connection. I know that my husband sees it as strength. It's not.
While we have been apart before, this will be the first time he deploys. So far, he has worked very hard to isolate himself. There will be no texts, emails, or care packages. I fully intend to let him have exactly what he wants. (Or what he thinks he wants anyway.) I will drop him off and I will pick him up. That's it.
I also know him well enough to tell that there is a meltdown coming. It may not be now. It may not be months from now. But it's coming and it will not be pretty. I'm going to spend the next 11 months trying to decide whether I want to be there when it does happen.
Olya, it sure sounds like your H is going through some major health issues. Depression seems very likely given everything you describe, and the low T may be a contributing factor as well. I'm not an MLC expert, but it doesn't sound like he's MLC to me (usually there would be wreckless spending, affairs, a sudden interest in personal appearance, etc.)
It sounds like you are doing well at GAL although I would not call what you are doing LRT because you are still constantly around him and doing things for him. You mentioned that he's supporting you financially so it sounds like maybe you are doing this to maintain that support and if so I do totally get it. Just understand that your sitch is likely to be stuck in limbo for as long as you maintain this arrangement.
He's never been good with money and the affair he's having is with his male buddy. They're both straight, so, at least I don't have to worry about STDs for now.
You are right in that I am in a very precarious position and that I am walking on eggshells. If I push him too hard, I will be in a very bad position.
That said, I am done with doing a lot of things for him.
First, I'm done cooking. I used to spend my time every Saturday meal-prepping for the week. We're not talking rice and ground beef. I'd make gourmet meals for breakfast, lunch, and dinner for him to take to work and to have at home. Currently, he's fending for himself and he's on a steady diet of salad with the said ground beef, eggs, and power bars. He has been supplementing with frozen tamales that I bought two weeks ago before our fallout. I certainly do not intend to pick up more when those run out. He can drive across town to get them himself.
Second, I am not doing anything that will make this process easier for him, certainly not when it's at our expense. He wanted us (translation: me) to pack up the house and quit the lease while he's in Kuwait. His logic is that this will save money. Sure. It will. However, I will be the one packing, hiring movers, dealing with paperwork, and finding storage rental. I will also be the one who will have to find a new place to live and set everything back up again by the time he comes home next February or March. I'm not doing that. This is my home and I intend to return there on holidays and long weekends throughout the time when he is gone. I have no intention to spend my 1 month off during the summer packing the house and then spend the first half of my 2019 spring semester finding him a new place to live. And I have zero wish to make the whole separation process easier for him than it has to be. If he wants these things done, then he can bloody well do them himself. He will not, of course.
So, I'm doing what I can.
To me, this feels like nothing....for now.
Change is hard, and you are acting differently. My guess is that he doesnt know how to react and things like sulking and anger and coldness come easily for him. Id say keep doing what you are doing. No matter what, I think it is making you into a stronger person.
Yes, they do come easily to him. Right now he has his guard way up and he's not winning any Ms. Congeniality awards any time soon.
Before he asked for a divorce, he told me that I was only hanging on to him because I am too scared of being without him. He can have a very childish view of love and I'm afraid that he does not believe that I love him.
I know that trying to convince him that I do is the last thing that I should be doing. At the same time, I do not want to confirm everything that he has been telling himself.
Sorry! I assumed you were the wife. I try not to, but most military personnel are guys, so, sometimes assumptions happen.
I'm trying to make peace with the fact that I cannot help him deal with this issue if he does not want to. Willingness to get hurt is a prerequisite to feeling in love and to being happy. When people build barriers to keep out pain, they also keep out any and every meaningful connection. I know that my husband sees it as strength. It's not.
While we have been apart before, this will be the first time he deploys. So far, he has worked very hard to isolate himself. There will be no texts, emails, or care packages. I fully intend to let him have exactly what he wants. (Or what he thinks he wants anyway.) I will drop him off and I will pick him up. That's it.
I also know him well enough to tell that there is a meltdown coming. It may not be now. It may not be months from now. But it's coming and it will not be pretty. I'm going to spend the next 11 months trying to decide whether I want to be there when it does happen.
No problem, I understand
Your sentence "Willingness to get hurt is a prerequisite to feeling in love and to being happy" is so on the mark. I have many flaws of my own and am focusing on these during my DBing time, but I think my wife's unwillingness to be vulnerable is a huge piece of the problem in my marriage as well. Like you said, it cannot be fixed if they don't want to. But very sad and frustrating when she claims she isn't in love or happy and right there is a huge reason why. I know that this aspect isn't personal to me and she will continue to struggle with it in future relationships.
I can't even describe to you the full depth of her resistance to vulnerability, it infects all aspects of her life because she holds onto it so tightly, mistaking it for strength just like you said. She always wants to be mister tough guy (sorry for the gendered term) and act like she has no needs, no dependence. Of course I know this isn't true and I'm just left guessing.
I think you are doing the right thing, letting him have his stubborn way. It always backfires in the end, but I learned my lesson that any attempts to counter are NEVER met well. I struggle with my resolve to be unwaveringly committed (my own stubbornness showing) but also question in the end if it best for me.
I'm not an MLC expert, but it doesn't sound like he's MLC to me (usually there would be wreckless spending, affairs, a sudden interest in personal appearance, etc.)
So, I initially read this as you thinking that he DOES have MLC.
I went exploring the resources and found the
Midlife for Dummies thread. Except for children and affair, it fits. It was like having someone describe to me in vivid detail what my life has been like for the past year and a half.
And the only reason he's not spending us into the ground is because I have put my foot down around the time when this has started and I no longer let him.
If he does have MLC, I'm honestly not sure what I want to do about this whole situation.
I think you are doing the right thing, letting him have his stubborn way. It always backfires in the end, but I learned my lesson that any attempts to counter are NEVER met well. I struggle with my resolve to be unwaveringly committed (my own stubbornness showing) but also question in the end if it best for me.
You and me both. One of the things that hurt the most was him telling me that he will sleep with whomever he wants should he want to. To me, this is wrong because we are still married. It makes me sick to my stomach.
Last week I was so pissed off that I attempted to create a dating profile using a different email. I never went through with finishing the process and never entered my real name or uploaded a picture.
Whatever happens, I do not want to go through this process and emerge feeling dirty. I have the power to decide whether I want to soil myself and to compromise my integrity and I have decided that nothing and no one is worth it. I will always have myself and I will always have to live with myself and I do not intend to do anything that 10 years down the road will make me ashamed to look at myself in the mirror. To quote our former first lady, "when they go low, we go high." When I decide to find someone else, it will be on my terms and I will do it in a way that I will not be ashamed of.
You and me both. One of the things that hurt the most was him telling me that he will sleep with whomever he wants should he want to. To me, this is wrong because we are still married. It makes me sick to my stomach.
Ouch, this is extremely hurtful. It is definitely wrong. And the military takes adultery a lot less lightly than the rest of the world these days, so he should be careful (not that this is your concern atm).
Whatever happens, I do not want to go through this process and emerge feeling dirty. I have the power to decide whether I want to soil myself and to compromise my integrity and I have decided that nothing and no one is worth it. I will always have myself and I will always have to live with myself and I do not intend to do anything that 10 years down the road will make me ashamed to look at myself in the mirror. To quote our former first lady, "when they go low, we go high." When I decide to find someone else, it will be on my terms and I will do it in a way that I will not be ashamed of.
Hold on tight to this. You are absolutely right that at the end of the day all you have for certain is yourself and you should be able to hold your head high and proud with your integrity intact. I always imagine talking to my hypothetical future children, later in life once they are grown, and strive to be the person I would want them to see. I want to be able to give them solid wisdom and advice and be able to back it up with examples from a well-lived life I am proud of. It's not worth compromising that for a moment of weakness, especially one brought on by someone else's transgressions.
Ouch, this is extremely hurtful. It is definitely wrong. And the military takes adultery a lot less lightly than the rest of the world these days, so he should be careful (not that this is your concern atm).
I promise you, he intended it this way.
I have no idea how much of it I should believe. He basically told me the same thing a year ago when he was throwing the same fit. Later, he (1) forgot he ever said it and (2) was appalled that I thought he'd do it.
I feel like I've been living with a crazy person, and I really don't want the crazy to rub off.
Last year, I begged and pleaded. I am not doing that again.
I am also very aware of what I can do to him if he has an affair and I may just have the connections that could help me do it. I would be lying if I said that it isn't tempting or that I haven't thought about blowing up his life on my way out. Right now, I am against taking this kind of action. I'd like to think that I am capable of being a better person than that. Again, it's that whole "looking at yourself in the mirror" thing.
I feel like I've been living with a crazy person, and I really don't want the crazy to rub off.
Remember that it's only crazy if you try to apply YOUR logic to it. To him, Im sure it all makes complete sense.
Thats why the rule around here is to not believe anything they say. Not because theyre lying to you, but because theres so much fluidity and contradiction and it will lead you on wild goose chases to try to understand.
I'm not an MLC expert, but it doesn't sound like he's MLC to me (usually there would be wreckless spending, affairs, a sudden interest in personal appearance, etc.)
So, I initially read this as you thinking that he DOES have MLC.
I went exploring the resources and found the
Midlife for Dummies thread. Except for children and affair, it fits. It was like having someone describe to me in vivid detail what my life has been like for the past year and a half.
And the only reason he's not spending us into the ground is because I have put my foot down around the time when this has started and I no longer let him.
If he does have MLC, I'm honestly not sure what I want to do about this whole situation.
Just my .02 - there does not need to be extreme spending for it to be MLC.
And whether it is WAS or MLC - it does not change what YOU do!
Advice is what my first post states for either one.
I feel like I've been living with a crazy person, and I really don't want the crazy to rub off.
Remember that it's only crazy if you try to apply YOUR logic to it. To him, Im sure it all makes complete sense.
Thats why the rule around here is to not believe anything they say. Not because theyre lying to you, but because theres so much fluidity and contradiction and it will lead you on wild goose chases to try to understand.
Yeah, I've been getting a sense of that more and more.
Problem is, I just don't buy it - not completely.
I understand that a crazy person may think that his behavior is sane and that it makes sense. That does not make it normal. It is still objectively crazy behavior. When contradicting things make sense depending on the time of day, when you cannot remember where you were last Christmas, when you disassociate yourself from your actions to a point where a whole year is conveniently gone from your memory - that is not normal.
I pretty much gave up trying to understand. I am doing my best to forgive and empathize. I am even willing to wait until he is ready to get help and support him when he does. However, I have very little respect left for him right now and none for his "logic." It is not another shade of normal and if I start validating it by telling myself that it is, I'll go crazy alongside him.
Right now, I am living with a crazy person and that crazy is what I'm getting some distance from. He will be leaving for 10 months on the 27th of May. At this point, it cannot come soon enough. At the very least, for the times when I am home, I will be able to sleep without being waken up in the middle of the night by a lunatic yelling "get off me" and "don't touch me." Is he laying awake half the night waiting for my elbow or forearm to touch him so that he can then throw a fit!?
I love that man, but not the behavior that is beneath him.
Sorry if I came off snippy, but unlike 44tries, this is my second time through the same minefield, and there was a lot of emotional and verbal abuse the first time around. I think I might be more done than I thought I was.
And whether it is WAS or MLC - it does not change what YOU do!
Advice is what my first post states for either one.
I think it might, Cadet. I'm not entirely sure that I'm willing to stick around for the full MLC.
I promise you, he intended it this way.
I will never understand intentionally hurting someone, especially your spouse, whether you are in love with them or not. It's interesting because this has reminded me of a time where I remembering researching why someone would do this...because my wife used to act similarly! I had almost forgotten about those times, they were not fun. But she would purposefully say hurtful things, some of them downright awful, and I was appalled. To the point where I seriously questioned why I would even want to be with her.
My conclusion was that she was trying her best to push me away and see if I would bail. She felt vulnerable and then lashed out. She would later apologize and say she knew how terrible it was. Never said she would cheat on me, however. If it helps, she does not act this way at all anymore. It's one of the ways she has grown a lot and our communication has drastically improved. We don't resort to dirty methods.
I do know I've read though that sometimes that passion, even though it's negative, can actually be better than apathy. Don't know if there's truth in that, but I know how much it hurts. I would bet it's more bark than bite, but still totally unacceptable.
In our relationship, I have always been the emotional one. I can get stressed out and lash out or overreact. It's a failing and I know that. I've worked hard to not act like this and my outbursts have been far more sparse than when we first got married. I don't mean to be hurtful when I do it and I apologize when I realize that I have crossed the line. Afterwards, I feel guilty for days.
My husband tends to keep things bottled in and lets them fester. When he is being hurtful, it is not a temper flare up. He is calm and intends for it to hurt. In those moments, he does not care about the pain that he causes. When the moment passes, he disassociates himself from what he said because in his mind, he's not that kind of a person. He neither apologizes nor eats himself alive over what he said or did. I think this goes along with being incredibly stubborn, which he is.
His emotional outbursts are rare and come in the form of sadness, fear, and grief. He usually needs alcohol before this can happen and, one way or another, they are always about abandonment.
In our relationship, I have always been the emotional one. I can get stressed out and lash out or overreact. It's a failing and I know that. I've worked hard to not act like this and my outbursts have been far more sparse than when we first got married. I don't mean to be hurtful when I do it and I apologize when I realize that I have crossed the line. Afterwards, I feel guilty for days.
This sounds more like my wife. Except I do think she meant to be hurtful at the time of her outbursts. But, for both of you, I understand that this is part of your personality and while you have had to learn how to have better emotional control, this same trait has values in other ways. It took me a long time to understand the idea of becoming emotionally "flooded" as they say, because it simply doesn't happen to me. But now I do and I have a lot more patience with is, plus it is less of an issue.
My husband tends to keep things bottled in and lets them fester. When he is being hurtful, it is not a temper flare up. He is calm and intends for it to hurt. In those moments, he does not care about the pain that he causes. When the moment passes, he disassociates himself from what he said because in his mind, he's not that kind of a person. He neither apologizes nor eats himself alive over what he said or did. I think this goes along with being incredibly stubborn, which he is.
I don't mean to be presumptuous at all, but have you ever wondered if he has some kind of mental thing going on? I know you mentioned the low testosterone issue and even that he may be crazy, but I don't know how serious you were in a clinical sense. I don't know much about the area, but things like disassociating himself don't really sound normal.
I understand the frustration too of his refusal to receive proper medical treatment. My wife was actually diagnosed with something as a teenager, I can't remember what exactly right at this moment, maybe manic depression. She admits she could have a mood disorder and they run in her family. But, of course, she will not try to find out for sure or get help because it can't go on the military record. I am all for avoiding meds if you can and she has seemed to manage fairly well at this point if she does have something, but I have a fundamental problem with the way that military members are pushed to refuse seeing a doctor for fear of their careers.
This sounds more like my wife.
Well, then if there is a future for you two, here's my advice to you:
1. Always remember that she cannot change - she has been set this way since she was about 3 years old. She can make great strides at keeping a lid on her temper. Appreciate those strides. However, realize that there will come a time when she will blow her gasket. Don't accuse her of being disingenuous about her changes or blame her for going back on those changes. Neither of those things will be true.
2. Affection works best. The uglier and fierier she is, the more she needs it. (Obviously, she has to agree to work on the relationship before you can offer it.) I promise you, when outbursts happen, she's having an out-of-body experience where she watches a stranger standing in her skin and yelling at her husband. A hug, an "I love you," a "hush, it's okay" goes a long way to end that. Also, you'll be the hero.
I don't mean to be presumptuous at all, but have you ever wondered if he has some kind of mental thing going on? I know you mentioned the low testosterone issue and even that he may be crazy, but I don't know how serious you were in a clinical sense. I don't know much about the area, but things like disassociating himself don't really sound normal.
Crazy is just a word we throw out, and it can have many negative connotations... But yes, of course I have. Depression, midlife crisis, fear of abandonment. Sometimes he reminds me of a hunted animal. He just gets that look in his eyes.
You know what precipitated this latest desire to get a divorce? Really the same thing that precipitated the last one exactly 1 year ago: I told him I was feeling unhappy and neglected because I barely hear from him when I'm not at home during the week.
Suddenly, he is deeply unhappy living with me, he doesn't really love me, I have an idea of an ideal husband in my head that he cannot live up to, and I only drive home to get a "reprieve" from school (translation: not to see him specifically).
That's right! He'd rather divorce me than text me about how his day went!
When I get some time, I'm actually going to run down the midlife crisis list and check off everything that applies. It's so sad that it's almost funny.
I understand the frustration too of his refusal to receive proper medical treatment. My wife was actually diagnosed with something as a teenager, I can't remember what exactly right at this moment, maybe manic depression. She admits she could have a mood disorder and they run in her family. But, of course, she will not try to find out for sure or get help because it can't go on the military record. I am all for avoiding meds if you can and she has seemed to manage fairly well at this point if she does have something, but I have a fundamental problem with the way that military members are pushed to refuse seeing a doctor for fear of their careers.
Same. There is nothing that he can do. If he goes to counseling on post, it's not confidential. If he gets antidepressants or testosterone boosters, or both, he will be undeployable. I have offered to pay for off-post counseling the minute I start working. However, medications would still be out of the question because they would show up on a urine test. It is a system that encourages people to get more and more dysfunctional.
Sometimes, I think that my greatest sin against him is knowing him the way he was before all this happened. I can tell that he is never genuinely happy. He can't lie to me about it. That's why he prefers the company of people who either don't know him well enough to tell or don't care. I suspect that this is also why he avoids his mother.
Well, then if there is a future for you two, here's my advice to you:
1. Always remember that she cannot change - she has been set this way since she was about 3 years old. She can make great strides at keeping a lid on her temper. Appreciate those strides. However, realize that there will come a time when she will blow her gasket. Don't accuse her of being disingenuous about her changes or blame her for going back on those changes. Neither of those things will be true.
2. Affection works best. The uglier and fierier she is, the more she needs it. (Obviously, she has to agree to work on the relationship before you can offer it.) I promise you, when outbursts happen, she's having an out-of-body experience where she watches a stranger standing in her skin and yelling at her husband. A hug, an "I love you," a "hush, it's okay" goes a long way to end that. Also, you'll be the hero.
I really appreciate this. Sometimes I wish she came with a manual! I absolutely appreciate the strides she has made and she really has come a long way. The problem is, sometimes she isn't open to affection, which is very frustrating for me. A symptom of our problems I think, and her lack of "feelings". If she ever does think I'm a hero, she's reluctant to say it. That would make her a vulnerable damsel in distress.
That's right! He'd rather divorce me than text me about how his day went!
This definitely sounds like an MLC/maturity problem. Back to childish ways. It sounds like he is shutting everyone out and just allowing himself to spiral. I'm certainly no expert on MLC's, but unfortunately I think the only person that can save him is himself...probably after hitting rock bottom.
I really appreciate this. Sometimes I wish she came with a manual! I absolutely appreciate the strides she has made and she really has come a long way. The problem is, sometimes she isn't open to affection, which is very frustrating for me. A symptom of our problems I think, and her lack of "feelings". If she ever does think I'm a hero, she's reluctant to say it. That would make her a vulnerable damsel in distress.
Don't we all!
I'm going to be honest with you - that is a problem. She'll probably have to work on it at some point in her life, but that's a decision that she has to make on her own. I would not broach the subject in the near future.
All you can do is change the way you act. It's going to be a touch-and-go. I'm not going to pretend that it's easy. I'm married to someone who used to be extremely affectionate. Now he's not and claims that he never was. He is completely alone in that opinion, but what does his family know? what do I know?
My big mistake was pressuring him to go to therapy. I come with a very deeply ingrained "fix it" mentality. I should have just let him be and let him hurt. He's still hurting - the couple of group sessions he went to during his lunch breaks did not help, nor could they. The only difference is that now he's back to wanting a divorce.
This definitely sounds like an MLC/maturity problem. Back to childish ways. It sounds like he is shutting everyone out and just allowing himself to spiral. I'm certainly no expert on MLC's, but unfortunately I think the only person that can save him is himself...probably after hitting rock bottom.
I suspect that you are right. I just have a hard time doing it. He'll be gone to Kuwait for 10 months. I'm worried that he'll hit that rock bottom while overseas, and he will be all alone.
He seems to do better when he has me to be angry at. The last I saw him, Sunday, he snapped "what" at me quite angrily and quite annoyed the minute I came up to him and said "hey." Why was I talking to him to begin with? Because I needed him to move his car so that I could leave the driveway. Was a begrudged "fine" an appropriate response? No, but that was what I got. He talks this way only with me and with his family. It's a teenage rebellion at 30.
I'm going to be honest with you - that is a problem. She'll probably have to work on it at some point in her life, but that's a decision that she has to make on her own. I would not broach the subject in the near future.
100%. I have always been aware it's a problem, and it didn't take me long to know that it was a personal one that I couldn't do anything to fix. This is an issue that can be addressed way down the road, when and if we ever get back to some semblance of a stable, healthy relationship.
My big mistake was pressuring him to go to therapy. I come with a very deeply ingrained "fix it" mentality. I should have just let him be and let him hurt. He's still hurting - the couple of group sessions he went to during his lunch breaks did not help, nor could they. The only difference is that now he's back to wanting a divorce.
I feel you on this one. I approach every problem I face with the mentality that it can be solved, no question. Keep coming from different angles, find new resources, just never give up. My tenacity can be exhausting and I know that. Pressuring my wife has been one of my biggest problems. Somehow, I am always putting pressure on her in one way or another. I know this needs to be changed if we have any hope, but as I wrote in my recent update I don't know if she will ever let go of the thought that I am an overbearing presence.
It can be frustrating to "let him hurt" and not be taking active steps toward a solution, worrying that time will just pass and he will be in a worse place like now where he's wanting a divorce. It's a helpless feeling.
I suspect that you are right. I just have a hard time doing it. He'll be gone to Kuwait for 10 months. I'm worried that he'll hit that rock bottom while overseas, and he will be all alone.
This is so, so hard. Fix it mentalities and savior complexes are such compulsive drives. We want to help and feel like we're doing the right thing. But we're trying to do a job that isn't ours or extends beyond our job description. Knowing a military member is in a place alone just makes it that much harder.
He seems to do better when he has me to be angry at. The last I saw him, Sunday, he snapped "what" at me quite angrily and quite annoyed the minute I came up to him and said "hey." Why was I talking to him to begin with? Because I needed him to move his car so that I could leave the driveway. Was a begrudged "fine" an appropriate response? No, but that was what I got. He talks this way only with me and with his family. It's a teenage rebellion at 30.
Yikes. It can be hard when you are the only "safe" outlet. They bottle everything up and act normal and cheery to friends and co-workers and then come home and let it all out on you. I've been there. It's a fine line between allowing yourself to be treated a certain way and also wanting to help and knowing that they do need an outlet of some kind. He needs to realize that he does this and work on growing and managing his internal issues better. Again, a problem only he can recognize and solve.
So, a major update!
Got home a little earlier today and managed to have a chat with hubbie.
He's angry and miserable.
I came in at 8 o'clock at night and he was already in bed watching YouTube videos on his phone.
He is incredibly snippy with me and will not make eye contact. When I told him that it was way too early to go to bed, he snapped back "well, you can go do whatever it is that you do at night." He quickly corrected that to "play videogames," but he definitely meant last Saturday when I went hiking all day and then took myself to a movie.
He was pestering me to know when I'd bring the second bed over. (His mom has an inflatable guest bed.) I intend to delay doing that for as long as I can.
Cherry on top? His "fabulous" day that he planned with his buddy who's going to college 2 hours out from here completely fell through. The guy stood him up. Didn't even call. My husband planned restaurant, bar, and movies. The guy completely forgot about him. Now, part of me feels really bad for hubbie. But there's also a part that's totally gloating because the man has spent the better part of last year telling me that he doesn't need me because he has his friends and they will be there for him. (That's something that has yet to happen.) Of course, I only showed him the part of me that is heartbroken for him.
Also, I got to see what kind of music he had been listening too. I didn't snoop or anything. The YouTube app on our living room TV is hooked up to my account and he uses it quite a bit. So, some songs started popping up on my phone app marked as having been listened to when I know I definitely did not listen to them. Among them are "Break Down Here" by Julie Roberts, "Tin Man" by Miranda Lambert, "Not Ready to Make Nice" by Dixie Chicks, and "Remind Me" by Brad Paisley. This ain't his usual playlist.
So, what I'm doing - staying away from him and getting a life - is definitely working. My question is whether you guys think I'm taking it too far. I don't want to hurt him and I don't want to drive him away. And I really don't want him to think that I gave up on him.
So, another update. Just noticed that he took our wedding picture off the shelf in the living room. He just placed it on top of a bunch of books face down.
Should I put it back, or should I leave it where it is?
I'm glad to hear what you are doing is working! It definitely sounds like you are making progress and, while sad for him, he is learning sooner rather than later that the grass isn't greener.
I am right with you about wondering where the line is. Don't push them away, don't pursue them. Doesn't feel like a lot of room for error. I don't think you are going too far. And the fact that you are seeing results reinforces this. You are still there for him. If he really needed you and called you, would you be there? I think you would. It's his choice to shut you out, not yours. As long as he is still clear that you don't think divorce is the answer (back to Amoafwl's quote), I don't see how there would be any confusion about you having given up on him. The way he is currently treating you is not a way that is testing whether you are there. If and when he starts to wonder, he will change his approach and I don't think you will 'fail' that test.
I would say the rules say to leave it where it is. But, I know how it stings. When I saw that my wife had taken off her wedding ring, I felt it all the way down to my soul. But, I think you just have to let it be part of the process. Accepting that that's how they are feeling right now and letting them do their thing. That said, it's your home too and if you really feel it's a personal violation you can't tolerate, I don't think there's anything wrong with standing your ground and putting it back. I just don't know if that's the most "productive" option.
Honestly, I'm not sure if it is working.
The weekend when he decided he wanted a divorce, he was nice and amiable and we parted on good terms. He even told me to text him when I get back to town where I'm going to school.
Since then, he has been a complete ogre. He avoids me. He doesn't talk to me.
Setting boundaries with him has been a mixed success. On one hand, he does what I ask. On the other hand, he just acts angrier towards me.
Yesterday, we went and got a rental car for his work trip. He insisted on getting a BMW instead of an economy car. Even after all the discounts, it still worked out to double of what the economy would have been. He was so happy. He was smiling, laughing, and he even forgot himself and called me "babe." A part of me felt really grossed out. The Army will not reimburse the rental costs. This is over $300 out of our pocket. And a BMW? Really?
By the time I got home from Yoga, he was once again an ogre. And... I just lost it. I was so bloody angry at him. I told him something like: "Look, I get it, I do. You have a mental illness. I am happy to be supportive. I am there for you. But you will NOT talk to me this way. I don't know if it's depression, midlife crisis, or both. But you know what? My mother has this issues and I did not put up with this $hit from her and I am not about to put up with it from you. Check your ugly attitude, paint a smile on your face, and act like a normal human being. I have been nothing but cordial, kind, and understanding. If you want to talk to someone the way you talk to me, try your friends who don't care enough about you to actually spend time with you. When you talk to me, you will talk the way you do to people who outrank you."
He tried protesting with comments like "I talk to everyone that way," "what did you read every brochure at the hospital or something," and some other such nonsense. I ignored all of it and kept on plowing through. He seemed very subdued after that. He asked that I wake him when I go to bed so that he can go sleep on the recliner downstairs. I did. He wasn't grumpy or anything. He wasn't sure what was going on at first, so, I asked "do you still want to go downstairs?" He said "yeah, it will be easier." I wished him a good trip and he told me to sleep tight.
I don't know whether he has to actively remind himself that he must behave like an ass or whether my tirade had an effect, but his attitude seems to have adjusted at least temporarily.
I won't be home next week. I have school-related stuff on the weekend. So, we'll be apart till late evening of the 18th. I doubt I'll hear from him by call or text - he has made a point not to contact me.
He wanted this. I haven't been clinging. Why the anger? Why the attitude? That's what I don't get.
And... I just lost it. I was so bloody angry at him. I told him something like: "Look, I get it, I do. You have a mental illness. I am happy to be supportive. I am there for you. But you will NOT talk to me this way. I don't know if it's depression, midlife crisis, or both. But you know what? My mother has this issues and I did not put up with this $hit from her and I am not about to put up with it from you. Check your ugly attitude, paint a smile on your face, and act like a normal human being. I have been nothing but cordial, kind, and understanding. If you want to talk to someone the way you talk to me, try your friends who don't care enough about you to actually spend time with you. When you talk to me, you will talk the way you do to people who outrank you."
[/color]That is strength if I have ever seen it. It takes a person. That has detached and has respect for themselves to make those comments. He definitely saw your strength and he saw you wouldnt be taken his sh!t no more. IMO that was a mini wake up call. Great job. Out of respect love is born.[color:#000099]
I don't know whether he has to actively remind himself that he must behave like an ass or whether my tirade had an effect, but his attitude seems to have adjusted at least temporarily.
[/color]He might have to remind himself to be mean but now be might be questioning his own behavior.
Keep up the hard work.
He would be a fool to walk away from a woman thats doing all these things for him. I'm in althe Army and one thing a soldier appreciate is a loyal, faithful spouse.[color:#3333FF]
That is strength if I have ever seen it. It takes a person. That has detached and has respect for themselves to make those comments. He definitely saw your strength and he saw you wouldnt be taken his sh!t no more. IMO that was a mini wake up call. Great job. Out of respect love is born.
I honestly don't think that he respects anyone anymore. His sister wants to come down and see him next weekend. She's scared that he'll get hurt on the deployment and she wants pictures with him. Now, she is an extremely silly woman and they have nothing in common. That said, this impulse of hers is coming from a good place, and he should honor it. Instead, his plan was to let her come and then tell her (from the safety of a base gate she can't get through) that he's too busy to see her. I told him that this is unacceptable. He promised to call his mom today and ask her to tell his sister not to come cause he's busy. I guarantee you that he will not do it.
So yeah... what respect? I honestly don't think he respects himself. But I need to respect myself, and if I don't check him, I will be reduced to a doormat.
He might have to remind himself to be mean but now be might be questioning his own behavior.
Keep up the hard work.
He would be a fool to walk away from a woman thats doing all these things for him. I'm in althe Army and one thing a soldier appreciate is a loyal, faithful spouse.
Thanks, I appreciate hearing this, I really do. I doubt that any of it got through. If it did, it won't last long. Maybe next time I'll remind him about who mopped up his vomit when he was sick, held him when he cried, and crisscrossed the country to make sure that he had his gear while he was away at training.
He wanted this. I haven't been clinging. Why the anger? Why the attitude? That's what I don't get.
If I had to guess, I would say the anger is not
really toward you, but himself. Deep down he knows he is behaving like a child. He knows he is going back on a commitment, and he knows he is causing a lot of hurt and frustration. This is not going to make him feel good about himself. Some anger may be directed at you because, in his eyes, you represent all of the negative stuff he is going through. He chose to chalk all his problems up to being married to you, and push you away. Of course, this is unfair.
Good for you for standing up for yourself. It seems maybe you got the message across and he can at least reign in his attitude and be civil. I have been struggling with whether or not to let my W know my frustrations. She hasn't been nearly as overt and has treated me kindly, but partly out of guilt I think. But, as I wrote in my post, she is starting to display destructive behavior. Like your H, texting friends and making plans like they are back in the college/dorm days. I don't know what the best approach for this is, whether to let it runs its course and hold the fort down while she does what she wants, or tell her how I really feel about it. It's hard to separate my hurt and frustration over her choice to give up on the marriage, from my frustration over what I feel is categorically unacceptable behavior.
Ultimately, like I wrote to you before, I think only they can bring themselves back to rationality and choose what kind of people they really want to be. Very frustrating and difficult to let them fall to rock bottom, but I don't know what else we can do. We treat them with respect, treat ourselves with respect, and keep on living our lives.
I realized yesterday that I have some ambivalence about how I feel about divorce from a moral perspective. I don't want someone to live in misery, but I can't shake that feeling that they made a commitment they knew was meant to be lifelong. If someone has not done something major to break that agreement first, are there really ever grounds to choose to walk away and be doing the right thing? I wonder. I can say, with certainty, that no matter what needs of mine were left unsatisfied or how much I feel I hadn't gotten what I bargained for, I would never just quit on my wife. I devoted my loyalty and promised I would still be standing there no matter what. This is a very hard thing for me to let go of.
If I had to guess, I would say the anger is not really toward you, but himself. Deep down he knows he is behaving like a child. He knows he is going back on a commitment, and he knows he is causing a lot of hurt and frustration. This is not going to make him feel good about himself. Some anger may be directed at you because, in his eyes, you represent all of the negative stuff he is going through. He chose to chalk all his problems up to being married to you, and push you away. Of course, this is unfair.
If this is anything like last year, he has convinced himself that he has changed, that he is a different person now, that the person I loved is dead, and that I cannot really love the new him.
I do love him. I just don't love his depression.
My behavior is drastically different this year than what it was a year ago - I am no longer begging, pestering or trying to hold on.
His is fundamentally the same. We have skipped over some emotional and verbal cruelties (and I suspect this is because I have denied him this opportunity), but he's right back to sulking, isolating himself with his phone, and being abrasive and antisocial.
He sleeps all the time. He lost weight. He cannot be parted from his phone - be it texts, phone games, or youtube videos. It's like he cannot be alone with his thoughts. Pattern-wise, I'd say we've skipped over last spring and fast forwarded to how he was acting at the end of last summer.
She hasn't been nearly as overt and has treated me kindly, but partly out of guilt I think. But, as I wrote in my post, she is starting to display destructive behavior. Like your H, texting friends and making plans like they are back in the college/dorm days. I don't know what the best approach for this is, whether to let it runs its course and hold the fort down while she does what she wants, or tell her how I really feel about it. It's hard to separate my hurt and frustration over her choice to give up on the marriage, from my frustration over what I feel is categorically unacceptable behavior.
I think you need to let it run its course WHILE setting some boundaries. By the way, I just remembered something I started doing last summer! If you don't like your wife texting non-stop while you two are in the car, then make her drive!
I can say, with certainty, that no matter what needs of mine were left unsatisfied or how much I feel I hadn't gotten what I bargained for, I would never just quit on my wife. I devoted my loyalty and promised I would still be standing there no matter what. This is a very hard thing for me to let go of.
That's kind of how I'm feeling. Last year and a half to two years, I have felt really neglected and alone. I might have complained about it, but I never told him to hit the road.
So, a small life update.
He should be in Texas right now. He hasn't called or texted to let me know that he made it.
We had a snow storm yesterday. So, I spent my time indoors. I did 4 sets of 150 reps for abs. I lifted some weight. I caught up on late-night TV. I played some video games. All in all, I had a good time.
I'm leaving for school later today. I have no idea if he made any arrangements for our cats or if he expected me to take them. I will feed them before I go and leave them extra food. They'll only be alone Monday and he should be back Tuesday night.
Since I won't be home till the 18th, I strongly suspect that we will have zero contact until then. I have no idea how I feel about it.
I'll be keeping busy. I have a lot of end-of-semester catch-up to do, plus I need to exercise.
Right now, this just feels like a stupid game of who can ignore the other person the longest.
"Right now, this just feels like a stupid game of who can ignore the other person the longest."
^^^^^^THAT^^^^^^ is exactly my life right there!
Unless I text my H, he acts like I don't exist. Tbh, it's been so long, I neither need or want to text him anymore. All the things I would've texted him about in the past, I strive to handle myself.
It feels like a 25 year marriage is dissolving into steam, just evaporating away....
Try and relax, get your work and exercise done and maybe enjoy the space if possible. Your H may miss you, he may find the time alone...lonely. Hopefully he'll allow himself some thinking time.
He wanted this. I haven't been clinging. Why the anger? Why the attitude? That's what I don't get.
Everyone's personality is different, but to me it feels like some of the DB techniques could resemble indifference to a partner and in cases where there is no A (where indifference is so very warranted), I can see where perceived indifference right off the bat could be very hurtful. Even if he does want a divorce (based on his reactions to you, I don't think he does) he's still monitoring your reactions to this pronouncement to either reaffirm his "decision" or make him second guess it. If he perceives your reactions as indifference to his announcement/feelings then it's probably really hurting him which is coming back across to you as anger. He's put himself in this position and he knows it, but it's likely not what he wants and he's not getting the reaction he wanted. That's my guess.
Unless I text my H, he acts like I don't exist. Tbh, it's been so long, I neither need or want to text him anymore. All the things I would've texted him about in the past, I strive to handle myself.
That's where I'm at. I ask myself, if I have a problem, will he be there for me in the way that I need? The answer is no. If something good happens, will he be happy for me and proud of me? I honestly don't know. I've reached a point where I no longer bother.
Try and relax, get your work and exercise done and maybe enjoy the space if possible. Your H may miss you, he may find the time alone...lonely. Hopefully he'll allow himself some thinking time.
Doing just that. He is very lonely. He just goes out of his way not to allow himself any thinking time. He hasn't been wanting to think about what's going on with him and it's painfully obvious.
Everyone's personality is different, but to me it feels like some of the DB techniques could resemble indifference to a partner and in cases where there is no A (where indifference is so very warranted), I can see where perceived indifference right off the bat could be very hurtful. Even if he does want a divorce (based on his reactions to you, I don't think he does) he's still monitoring your reactions to this pronouncement to either reaffirm his "decision" or make him second guess it. If he perceives your reactions as indifference to his announcement/feelings then it's probably really hurting him which is coming back across to you as anger. He's put himself in this position and he knows it, but it's likely not what he wants and he's not getting the reaction he wanted. That's my guess.
I don't think he really wants a divorce either.
1. There's no one else.
2. He has not filed for divorce.
3. He has not cut me off financially.
4. He is happy to support me while I finish up law school.
5. He has made no steps to become more independent.
6. I still handle all the finances.
7. He has not logged into his bank account since the day we were married.
8. He has lost weight (he didn't have any to lose, honestly).
9. He spends his free time either exercising or sleeping or watching really bad movies. (He will fall asleep through those movies and then attempt to watch them again 2 or 3 times.)
10. He does not go out at night and goes to bed earlier than before (around 8 p.m.).
11. His sleep at night is restless.
12. He does not go anywhere or do anything.
13. Early on, he suggested separation, but all that meant is that I would stay with his parents and go to school and not come here on weekends. I told him no because this is my home and he acquiesced with no further argument.
14. The fridge is absolutely empty and he lives mostly on power bars and whatever piece of meat he can fry himself in the evening.
If he claims that he wasn't happy married to me, it does not look like he's very happy without me either. That unhappiness is his, and he carries it with him whether I am there or not.
I do think that my indifference is hurting him. When he was going through this last year, he told me in an unguarded moment that he felt like I gave up on the relationship. This time around he told me that I have this perfect idea of a marriage in my mind and that nothing he does will ever be good enough (that was one day before he asked for a divorce).
For my peace of mind, however, I don't think that I can just stop... nor do I think that I should. I'll start switching things up a little bit in a couple of weeks and see if that yields any results. Nothing major - I'll just ask him to go to a small craft brewery with me. He likes that place. If he doesn't go, I'll take myself there.
Olya,
I am in the same spot as your husband. What do you want from us? What thoughts do you want him to think? What actions do you want him to take.
He could walk away and be happy. But he chooses to suffer with you because he does love and care about you.
If he did not, he would have been gone and happy with someone else already.
Perhaps your LRT has no goal other than your own selfish need to punish and keep score?
What is the objective? To be at a spot where he is so utterly destroyed by his own feelings for you, he is incapable of bettering himself?
Olya,
I am in the same spot as your husband. What do you want from us? What thoughts do you want him to think? What actions do you want him to take.
He could walk away and be happy. But he chooses to suffer with you because he does love and care about you.
If he did not, he would have been gone and happy with someone else already.
Perhaps your LRT has no goal other than your own selfish need to punish and keep score?
What is the objective? To be at a spot where he is so utterly destroyed by his own feelings for you, he is incapable of bettering himself?
With all due respect, I was not the one who asked for divorce. I was not the one who indicated that we can see other people. I was not the one who decided that the marriage is not salvageable after 2 marriage counseling sessions.
I want him to work on our marriage and I want him to get individual counseling.
His unhappiness is of his own choosing. My LRT goal is to keep myself from screaming into the night like a madwoman and to retain some modicum of dignity in the process. Perhaps, it is also to make him realize that his unhappiness does not stem from me - it is all his own and he needs to address it before it eats him alive.
Everything on your list matches so perfectly to the things I am holding onto/can't get past. If I felt W was truly happier and better off without me, it would be a lot easier to let her go. But when she has made no real moves toward an actual divorce, has stopped eating/cooking/grocery shopping, is suddenly focused on drinking and smoking, and has developed some strange obsession with her phone and inappropriate friendships, I have to say it doesn't feel like this is what she truly wants.
I so completely agree with the line that his unhappiness is his. I have been blamed for so much unhappiness, and I am not without fault, but I think the fact is that an unhappy person is going to be unhappy regardless of another. It's the same idea that another person cannot likewise make you happy.
I think it would all be much easier and simpler if his announcement of wanting a divorce was just to see your reaction and get affirmation. You clearly care and want to make things work. There wouldn't be such an impasse if this was all he needed to know. The issues are more deep-seated, but are probably mostly his own.
Projecting is one of the defense mechanisms we humans have. It is easier for our mind to shift the blame of our unhappiness (or something else) onto someone else's shoulders, rather than accept the hard reality and our own fault. When we shift the blame on someone else, it is much easier to keep our own self-image intact and consequently lessen or eliminate the emotional burden. Probably the scariest thing in defense mechanisms is that they are usually automatic - we act and utilize them in autopilot; the realization of a defense mechanism activation may never be noticed consciously unless the person understands their own emotions and behavior. Even the most emotionally strongest people utilize defense mechanisms to cope with sudden emotionally taxing situations in life. There are good ones (e.g. automatic realistic reframing of someone else's behavior: say for example your boss is yelling at you and you automatically think they are having issues in their own life rather than concluding it being a flaw on yourself/them hating you) and really bad ones (e.g. externalization: you get a bad grade in an exam and you directly blame the teacher, the school, the material or something completely irrelevant factor - projection is one of externalization's forms).
So, next time you see him angry or blaming you for his unhappiness, remember this. He is trying to cope with his internal "demons" by utilizing defense mechanisms to protect his own self-image; to keep him safe from the rawness of the true feelings or the possible shattering of the self-image. This is the reason why most people turn the image of their spouse completely around after the BD happens. Before, they could love this person for years; after, the spouse is a monster who deserves a bad life.
The sad part? Projection happens quite often as seen in this board. People expect spouses to bring the happiness when in fact true happiness is gained by consistent growth of oneself.
I read your story through and as a word of encouragement, you seem to be a really strong person. Whether this goes as you currently want it or not, you will learn a lot from this and will eventually find your place with or without him. I admire your strength in studying considering the factors you have in your life currently. Remember, baby steps and it takes time - a lot more than you think. Good luck for the future
Olya,
This is only my opinion. I second everything Lcause has said.
I'm in the Army. I have been active going on 17 years in June.
From what you wrote I think your H, wasnt the most popular or maybe got bullied some growing up. (I might be wrong).
Now he has joined the Army and he has flirted with leadership and it has went to his head a bit.
But you are a strong woman, seems to me that you have a natural leadership trait and your H doesnt and hes taking some of what he lacks out on you. The only person he knows that will put up with his Sh!t.
You cook for him, drive back and forth hours to see him, you are going to law school while carrying a 3.7 GPA, you held him while he cried, you motivated him to pass his PT test after he failed his initial one in OCS and thought he couldn't do it. Only a woman with strength and great character can pull that off. Only a woman that truly loves her man can pull that off.
He's being somebody he's not. Or at least trying to be. He's not being real with who he is as a man and person. So your H has a conflict with himself and not you. Until he learns to be honest with himself and be happy with the man he is and stop trying to prove himself to people that could care less about him like his friend. He will be in conflict with himself. It's nothing you can do for him, while he is going thru this but support and remind him he is an awesome man just the way he is.
I think it would all be much easier and simpler if his announcement of wanting a divorce was just to see your reaction and get affirmation. You clearly care and want to make things work. There wouldn't be such an impasse if this was all he needed to know. The issues are more deep-seated, but are probably mostly his own.
In a nutshell, he believes that he has changed and that he cannot give me what I want and that I cannot love him as he is right now. A year ago he told me that the man I loved was dead. Now, he says that he is not in love with me, hasn't been for years, and we got married too young and too soon.
Problem is, I don't believe him. It would be easier to believe what he says if he did not use absolutes. According to my husband he (1) never liked much physical contact, (2) never been very interested in sex, (3) never been overly touchy-feely, and (4) never liked holding hands.
All these things are simply untrue. He used to be an extremely affectionate and loving husband. The fact that he acts like he never was and says that he never was makes me doubt his whole "I changed" explanation. People who change acknowledge what they once were. There must also be a reason for change. He gives none. The best explanation I got is this is how he has to be in order to be good at his job.
He says he is happier this way. He doesn't look it.
So, next time you see him angry or blaming you for his unhappiness, remember this. He is trying to cope with his internal "demons" by utilizing defense mechanisms to protect his own self-image; to keep him safe from the rawness of the true feelings or the possible shattering of the self-image. This is the reason why most people turn the image of their spouse completely around after the BD happens. Before, they could love this person for years; after, the spouse is a monster who deserves a bad life.
I think I know that... and this is my problem. I love him and I feel awful for him. He is emotionally crippled and he does not see it. I want to be there for him, but he won't let me. I know that no matter what happens, I will be fine. I'm not so sure about him.
The sad part? Projection happens quite often as seen in this board. People expect spouses to bring the happiness when in fact true happiness is gained by consistent growth of oneself.
He hasn't grown. He shrunk. He used to read, watch documentaries, go to museums, go to concerts, hike, play video games, play D&D, experiment with awful baking recipes, etc. Now all he's interested in is gym, beer, phone games, texting with his buddies, YouTube videos, and comic books. He didn't substitute these interests for his old ones - his old set included both.
I read your story through and as a word of encouragement, you seem to be a really strong person. Whether this goes as you currently want it or not, you will learn a lot from this and will eventually find your place with or without him. I admire your strength in studying considering the factors you have in your life currently. Remember, baby steps and it takes time - a lot more than you think. Good luck for the future
Thank you. I really appreciate it.
From what you wrote I think your H, wasnt the most popular or maybe got bullied some growing up. (I might be wrong).
No, you are spot on. He was kind of a loner in school.
Now he has joined the Army and he has flirted with leadership and it has went to his head a bit.
I suppose that might be the cause behind him telling me that he has decided that he will no longer do anything he does not want to do.
But you are a strong woman, seems to me that you have a natural leadership trait and your H doesnt and hes taking some of what he lacks out on you. The only person he knows that will put up with his Sh!t.
I don't think he sees me as strong anything. He has always been the one person I come crying to, tell my hurts to, tell my insecurities to. He sees that as a sign of my weakness. The week before he asked for a divorce, he called me a dejected crybaby. I had a kidney infection and was freaking out about everything and cried a lot.
The day he asked for a divorce, he told me that I am only holding on to him because I'm scared of being on my own without him.
You cook for him, drive back and forth hours to see him, you are going to law school while carrying a 3.7 GPA, you held him while he cried, you motivated him to pass his PT test after he failed his initial one in OCS and thought he couldn't do it. Only a woman with strength and great character can pull that off. Only a woman that truly loves her man can pull that off.
I'm not without faults either. I can be demanding and overbearing. There were a couple of times when I had to yell at him to snap out of it because comforting him was not working and time for him to come to his senses was precious short. I don't think he has forgiven me for that.
Also, when he decided to try again this past fall, I was probably too demanding of him. He was making baby steps and I wanted more than that. I also wanted a sincere apology from him for everything he had put me through - he had said some nasty things to me last spring when he first brought up divorce. He told me that he was not going to prostrate himself before me over what he said. That just made me angry.
The nail in the coffin for him was me asking again and again that he keep in contact with me during the week when I'm not at home.
He's being somebody he's not. Or at least trying to be. He's not being real with who he is as a man and person. So your H has a conflict with himself and not you. Until he learns to be honest with himself and be happy with the man he is and stop trying to prove himself to people that could care less about him like his friend. He will be in conflict with himself. It's nothing you can do for him, while he is going thru this but support and remind him he is an awesome man just the way he is.
He views his old self - a vulnerable, kind, open person - as a liability. He believes that he is happier and better off being as he is right now.
Problem is, I don't believe him. All these things are simply untrue.
This is the coping mechanism. If he can deny everything positive that ever existed, claim it's dead, never was, whatever, then it becomes much easier to walk away from. You are likely right that it's all or at least mostly B.S. But he will do everything in his power to convince himself, and you (but you know better). The real question is why. Why does he want to walk away from it all? His mental health, MLC, some personal trauma/crisis? Perhaps, like we have discussed, he has just become aware of his own lack of love for himself and doesn't know what to do about it.
He says he is happier this way. He doesn't look it.
This. I think that I can honestly say if I let my wife walk away, and I believed she would become a better, stronger, happier person, I would do it in a heartbeat. A very painful heartbeat, but a heartbeat nonetheless. I value her happiness above my own because I love her. I want the best for her and if, for whatever reason, that isn't me, then I can accept that and let her go and know that I will be fine. BUT, it certainly doesn't feel like all this is for the best. She is not any stronger or happier than she was before she decided she didn't want to be married to me anymore; quite the opposite. Like you said, it's not growth, it's shrinking.
Now, I realize in my case it has only been a very short time. She is going through a break-up too and maybe her regression is only temporary. But, I have to say it doesn't inspire a lot of confidence to see her spiraling. It certainly doesn't make it any easier to walk away. If I am able to remain strong, work on bettering myself from day one, and I am the one stuck with the wrong end of the stick, it is very hard to feel like this her breakout moment of newfound strength where she sheds her cocoon (and me along with it), and becomes a butterfly.
I think I know that... and this is my problem. I love him and I feel awful for him. He is emotionally crippled and he does not see it. I want to be there for him, but he won't let me. I know that no matter what happens, I will be fine. I'm not so sure about him.
I understand you. True love is unconditional; no matter what our partners do, we still want to love them and it is hard to let go. No matter how bad it feels, letting go is a must for you. You can't fix him and fixing him is not your job to do. He has to want to get better all by himself and this realization might take while or never happen at all. Detach yourself and concentrate on getting your degree. Utilize it completely by making new friends and possible contacts for your career
He hasn't grown. He shrunk. He used to read, watch documentaries, go to museums, go to concerts, hike, play video games, play D&D, experiment with awful baking recipes, etc. Now all he's interested in is gym, beer, phone games, texting with his buddies, YouTube videos, and comic books. He didn't substitute these interests for his old ones - his old set included both.
This sounds a lot like depression. I know this because I was heavily depressed too and I did the exact same thing. Things that really sparked my feelings up did not feel good at all anymore and I could spend hours watching random useless YouTube videos always searching for that next "big thing" that gives me the "rush" of feel-good. In fact, quite a bit of it is documented on my thread - I was feeling REALLY low around a half a year ago. Only when I PERSONALLY realized what I was doing, what I was feeling and WHY, I could conquer it. I could share it properly and bring my defenses down to appreciate the help I was getting. I did not know about my defense mechanisms without outside help.
Bottom line is that you can't say anything that would bring him back to his senses. By trying to convince him anything, psychology tells that you are only likely to cement his views or feelings. He resents you because he thinks you are the issue. He HAS to want it himself, not convinced or forced by someone else. Don't take it personally and understand that it isn't likely something he chooses directly. It is hard to understand but work towards it - it will help you in your life by teaching you how to set yourself in someone else's shoes regardless of the situation.
I understand you. True love is unconditional; no matter what our partners do, we still want to love them and it is hard to let go. No matter how bad it feels, letting go is a must for you. You can't fix him and fixing him is not your job to do. He has to want to get better all by himself and this realization might take while or never happen at all.
Bottom line is that you can't say anything that would bring him back to his senses. By trying to convince him anything, psychology tells that you are only likely to cement his views or feelings. He resents you because he thinks you are the issue. He HAS to want it himself, not convinced or forced by someone else. Don't take it personally and understand that it isn't likely something he chooses directly. It is hard to understand but work towards it - it will help you in your life by teaching you how to set yourself in someone else's shoes regardless of the situation.
Olya-I am sorry that you are here and in the situation you are in. I look forward to following your post.
Lcause- what a wonderful response and I thank you for sharing this as I am working to detach. Each day is getting a little bit easier and your words about true love from the LBS and the fact that the WW spouse needs to want it sums it all up nicely. Sometimes I read advice and wonder or question but you made it seem so simple to understand.
So, today I found out that there is another woman.
He and OW met about a year and a half ago. She is a civilian at a base where my husband was stationed before the current duty station.
Today he texted me to ask me not to come home the weekend of the 20th. She is coming down with a couple of other of his friends. If all goes well, he plans to go to a hotel with her. They will keep long-distance relationship going while he is on deployment. Then they plan to move in together after he comes back next year.
They started talking and started up this relationship about a week ago. For now it's just an emotional affair. But I expect that by the end of the weekend of the 20th, it will be a full-blown physical affair.
Oh, and he told me that he does not want to be around me because I am no longer fun. Yes, school and stress will do that to a person. I thought that marriage was about helping one another through those times.
A part of me is crushed. I feel winded. Like I'm in a stupor. But I'm not crying. A part of me has expected this all along.
He told me that he will just divorce me sooner if I attempt to come home on the 20th. Right now, I have no choice.
I do have the entire conversation saved as text messages and I'm about to try and figure out how to permanently save it so that I have the record.
I... I'm in a place where I don't know what to do. The next month will be crazy-busy for me. I'll have no trouble keeping busy. Right now, I just feel incredibly, incredibly dirty.
And I need advice. Any advice. Really, just anything.
Olya,
I'm sorry to hear the news. It's crushing news. Keep posting, listen and use the advice here. The faster you pick yourself up and starting DBing the better chance you have at saving your M and yourself.
Now on to your H. What does he mean by if, "you come home this weekend he will D you sooner"? In other words he's planning on D you but you have time if you don't show up. That statement is him wanting his cake and eating as well. Sooner, really!!!
It's time for you to detach, let him go. Give him space. I know those statements are hard to hear. The faster you move out his way and work on your side the street, the faster you get to healing.
Stop cooking his food. Stop calling, texting and answering his phone calls. Stop being a convient option for him. He needs to feel what it is like losing you.
Read up on detachment. Reread it. Don't beat yourself up. This pricess is hard and it takes time.
You are an awesome woman. Treat yourself as such. Respect yourself and love yourself. We all have been where you are at and felt the crushing feeling you are feeling.
Olya,
I'm sorry to hear the news. It's crushing news. Keep posting, listen and use the advice here.
Thank you. I will.
The faster you pick yourself up and starting DBing the better chance you have at saving your M and yourself.
Right now, I want to save myself. If he ever wants me back, he will have to come crawling and there will be a lot of making up to do. But yes, DBing seems to be the way to get either or both of those things. So, I will keep doing that.
Now on to your H. What does he mean by if, "you come home this weekend he will D you sooner"? In other words he's planning on D you but you have time if you don't show up. That statement is him wanting his cake and eating as well. Sooner, really!!!
He already told me that he wants a divorce. He is staying with me until I finish school and start working. He calls it a "contract marriage."
It's time for you to detach, let him go. Give him space. I know those statements are hard to hear. The faster you move out his way and work on your side the street, the faster you get to healing.
I have. I told him to do whatever he wants and have fun. He promised that no one else will sleep or have sex in our bed. If it comes to that, apparently, they'll go to a hotel.
Stop cooking his food. Stop calling, texting and answering his phone calls. Stop being a convient option for him. He needs to feel what it is like losing you.
I stopped that the day he asked for a divorce.
After today, a few other things will change.
1. He will have to make all of his own arrangements.
2. Any use of credit stops - if he wants a divorce, all our joint liabilities must be resolved beforehand. He will have to make due on $400 a paycheck.
3. His phone will get cancelled before he deploys. If he wants to have a relationship with this woman, she can take out a line for him and pay the international premiums.
4. He will be taking himself to the air field when it's time for him to go. He will also have to make arrangements about his car or whatever other means of transportation he plans to use.
5. There will be no e-mails, texts, care packages, or anything else from me when he is overseas. She can do that for him.
Read up on detachment. Reread it. Don't beat yourself up. This pricess is hard and it takes time.
I'm not. If I am not fun, then he can go find someone who is. The thing about fun is that someone has to take on the responsibilities of day-to-day life. Is he ready to do that? Is she?
You are an awesome woman. Treat yourself as such. Respect yourself and love yourself. We all have been where you are at and felt the crushing feeling you are feeling.
Thank you.
I had some time to think since I posted this.
And I only have one question: What kind of woman is this!?
So, apparently, she understands our situation and that we will remain married for at least another year and a half. Tack on the time it takes to actually get a divorce, and you're looking at half way through 2020 at the earliest.
Now, what does this mean for her?
This means that he has some serious financial obligations.
This means that he is invested enough in his marriage to continue being there for his spouse in some very substantial ways.
He has already told her and his other friends that they will be sleeping on the recliners when they come over - our bed is off limit.
He began talking to her one week after he announced that he wants a divorce. We're not even legally separated. In the span of 3 weeks, she has put herself in the picture, is talking about moving in with him, and is "accepting of the whole situation"?
Also, she works with the DoD at his old duty station. How is she envisioning moving in with him? Does she think she's guaranteed a transfer here? Does she think that she will leave her job and he will be able to support two families?
Dear GOD! LORDY! He went looking for a mistress at a mental infirmary! I feel disgusted by this woman. No, I did not call her a "whore" to him, but that is what she is in a nutshell - a desperate and stupid whore.
His exact words were:
"The premises was to stay married to alleviate any financial burden. You are not fun to have around. I am asking you nicely to have my house for myself and my friends. You do not have to come here. This is not your home anymore. I'm moving on, you need to too.
And I am asking for one weekend. If things go well with this girl, I'm going to want to pursue more. She knows the situation, but if we like each other, we want to live together when I get back. I'm trying to be nice, but I have no interest in sharing a living space with you. Also, all you're doing is convincing me to divorce you early."
And yes, I have the whole conversation saved on my G-mail.
Olya,
Whatever this OW is you dont care. Why she is doing what she is doing is not of any concern to you.
Give your H all the space he needs. Is the home he refer to the marital home if so, it belongs to the both of you. Seems to me like he is trying to bully you out the M. Stop talking and responding to him. Cut off all communication.
You are doing a good job so far. You seem to have the concept down, about saving yourself.
Find some hobbies to do besides just going to school. Look on meetup.com for some activities happening in the local area.
Oh, don't act out of vengeance, hate or anger.
An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. “A fight is going on inside me,” he said to the boy.
“It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil – he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.” He continued, “The other is good – he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith. The same fight is going on inside you – and inside every other person, too.”
The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, “Which wolf will win?”
The old Cherokee simply replied, “The one you feed.”
Do things that feed the good wolf.
People don't drawn from falling, it's staying in that causes them to die.
Dbing is not about hate or vengeance, DBing is about LOVE. Loving yourself and loving your S. The true test of love is allowing a person to be themselves and allowing a person to choose.
Choose love and shun hate.
Olya,
Whatever this OW is you dont care. Why she is doing what she is doing is not of any concern to you.
Give your H all the space he needs. Is the home he refer to the marital home if so, it belongs to the both of you. Seems to me like he is trying to bully you out the M. Stop talking and responding to him. Cut off all communication.
You are doing a good job so far. You seem to have the concept down, about saving yourself.
Find some hobbies to do besides just going to school. Look on meetup.com for some activities happening in the local area.
Well, Joe, here's the thing - I get to be angry. He's been texting this harlot for 3 weeks and now he's decided that he's going to build a life with her? I know his texts say that he'll see how it goes, but I know him well enough to tell that he is ready to jump into this relationship head first.
That said, I have not lashed out at him. Nor will I. Right now it is about me and what is best for me. And what is best for me is to put on a happy face and drag this out until I can stand on my own two feet. Then I will decide what I want to happen.
Yes, he is referring to our marital home. We are renting on post. I am not sure how much this matters. I need to go talk to an attorney who knows something about these matters. That will have to wait until I'm back home. There is an Air Force Base near by - I will go there, I think. I don't want to use Army JAG only to have it get back to him that I have been seeking legal advice.
Now, I would love your opinion on something. The things that I listed in my post to you - do you agree with this course of action?
Almost forgot! I have been using MeetUps quite enthusiastically and recommending the app to other people. Problem is that right now is exam crunch time - I really don't have much time for anything other than school.
I do still exercise, and I live with my in-laws who are lovely and wonderful people. His mom would be crushed if she knew what he is about to do.
His sister tried texting him about coming over to see him this weekend. He never replied to her. The way he treats everyone who loves him... it's disgusting. He's chasing a high with people he barely knows.
I have no wish to stalk this woman or to find out what she looks like. I am repulsed by her. I know myself well and I know that being in the same position, I would never pursue a relationship like this - I deserve better and I have been raised to do better by other people.
But no, I am not stewing in my own juices. I went and got an hour-long massage just now. I'll live. I have to.
Just found out that he bought her a plane ticket with one of our credit cards.
I wouldn't stay away from my marital home. If he wants to pursue some gal, by all means be my guest. But if I want to come home, I will... He can leave for the week or weekend... Why should you have to stay away from your home? Why is he calling the shots? And no way is it acceptable for him to use your joint cc to pay for ow's plane ticket... and I find it hard to believe he was not involved with this OW longer than 3 weeks...
I wouldn't stay away from my marital home. If he wants to pursue some gal, by all means be my guest. But if I want to come home, I will... He can leave for the week or weekend... Why should you have to stay away from your home? Why is he calling the shots? And no way is it acceptable for him to use your joint cc to pay for ow's plane ticket... and I find it hard to believe he was not involved with this OW longer than 3 weeks...
I checked the phone record and the credit card record. He's telling the truth as far as I can see.
I also don't see how I have a choice. What should I do? Come down there and make a scene? That will just drive him closer to her. Also, it will make sure that we divorce sooner than later and that I'm out on my a$$ before I can graduate or get a job.
I need to talk to a lawyer before I throw anyone out.
Base housing belongs to the spouse/dependant. He has to leave before you have 2. You have more rights to that house than he does.
If you want to keep the piece while you finish then I would do that.
Lay out your plan and move forward.
How was your massage?
Wow. Olya, I'm so sorry!
First, let me say that you have shown incredible strength through all of this and now continue to do so even as the blows keep coming. I have no doubt that you will not stoop to his level and you are capable of handling this in the best way possible, with the help of all the great advice found here.
He is just sinking further to his rock bottom. You are right, this affair is completely illogical. They usually are. If I was a betting man, I'd be willing to wager this relationship does not last through his deployment. Long distance relationships are extremely hard to maintain, especially when they have no foundation. Not that any of this really matters, but the point is it's just another distraction for him to run away from reality and his problems.
Stay strong and make sure you do what you need to protect yourself. Continue to maintain boundaries and maintain your dignity, be the better person. As I mentioned before, he is walking a fine line if he is willing to commit adultery and arm you with a written statement of intent. Go to the Air Force base, they will help you out (my W is Air Force).
Base housing belongs to the spouse/dependant. He has to leave before you have 2. You have more rights to that house than he does.
I technically know that. What I do not know is how long I have. I expect to have a contested divorce, if it comes to that. Then again, he... he doesn't hate me. He trusts me and he is incredibly attached to me, actually, and that is where a lot of his anger is coming from. He may just let me have everything I ask for. But then what? I'd still be divorced before I am ready.
He is going overseas in a month and a half. They will likely only have this one interlude. I have very little that I can or have to stop right now. I cannot stop them sleeping together when she comes over and any attempt to do so will only encourage it, so, why jeopardize my position?
Now, if he wants to shack up with her when he comes back, I will kick him out. He will not be allowed to return to that house even for a minute. She can go ahead and arrange the apartment for him while he's gone. After all, I did all those things before. Why can't she? At that point, I will be close enough to graduation to make my demands.
If you want to keep the piece while you finish then I would do that.
Yes, I think I do. I do not want to allow him to remember me in a negative light as he goes. Also, the more he trusts me, the more control I have over our joint finances. He has made no move to freeze me out or to disentangle our lives in any meaningful way. Hell, he's made no effort to end my general power of attorney. I will not push him to take those steps before I am ready.
And on that account, I really need your advice. Am I right in deciding that I should not be dropping him off for his deployment takeoff? Am I right in deciding not to write him or send him care packages when he is overseas?
Lay out your plan and move forward.
Working on it! -)
Fabulous! I had a lot of tension in my shoulders. Some of it has been worked out. I'm going back again next week. -)
Wow. Olya, I'm so sorry!
First, let me say that you have shown incredible strength through all of this and now continue to do so even as the blows keep coming. I have no doubt that you will not stoop to his level and you are capable of handling this in the best way possible, with the help of all the great advice found here.
Thank you. I appreciate it.
No, I will not stoop to his level. First, I am not getting into any relationship just to spite him or to make the process of dissolving the marriage emotionally easier for me. What he is doing right now is insanity - pure and simple. I'm not hopping on to that roller coaster. He has literally latched himself onto the first available woman. I will not be doing the same by clinging to the first man who seems interested.
I need time to think about what I want out of a partner. I want relative stability and independence before I see anyone again because I do not want it to be a desperate "I need a lifeline" relationship.
Moreover, I live with his folks. It would be incredibly wrong of me to do anything that would betray their trust in me. I cannot do that.
Finally, the messages he sent to me that I saved are admissible in court, unlike a hidden recording, for example. Yes, we are in a no-fault divorce state, but they do give me leverage for what I can get in a settlement. They also give me leverage if time comes when I decide that I need to talk to his command and have him removed from our house. That leverage disappears if I start an affair and he finds evidence of it.
He is just sinking further to his rock bottom. You are right, this affair is completely illogical. They usually are. If I was a betting man, I'd be willing to wager this relationship does not last through his deployment. Long distance relationships are extremely hard to maintain, especially when they have no foundation. Not that any of this really matters, but the point is it's just another distraction for him to run away from reality and his problems.
Actually, our relationship started out as a long-distance relationship. And since I am "not fun to be around anymore," it makes me wonder what he's trying to re-live.
I'm not sure I care whether it lasts that long or not. I have my doubts that it will. I also have my doubts that when the time comes she will drop everything and come out here to make a home for the two of them.
I'm not sure what her base access privileges are, but I will be changing locks the day after he leaves. Just in case.
Stay strong and make sure you do what you need to protect yourself. Continue to maintain boundaries and maintain your dignity, be the better person. As I mentioned before, he is walking a fine line if he is willing to commit adultery and arm you with a written statement of intent. Go to the Air Force base, they will help you out (my W is Air Force).
I will. I was planning to do that on the 18th, but since I am not coming home that weekend, it will have to wait till after the finals.
Also, if I play my cards right, I will have a saved text message from him confirming that they have slept together. I have no wish to ruin his career and I do not intend to be vindictive, but I do need to take steps to protect myself. This is one of those steps.
So, from everything I've read so far, this smells like an exit affair. Not much hope here - there is little chance that he will want to reconcile and return to the marriage. His new relationship isn't likely to last either, but what's that to me?
Anyone have any advice/information regarding exit affairs?
So, from everything I've read so far, this smells like an exit affair. Not much hope here - there is little chance that he will want to reconcile and return to the marriage. His new relationship isn't likely to last either, but what's that to me?
Anyone have any advice/information regarding exit affairs?
From what I have read, and some of the success stories I have heard since I started doing my research after BD, there is always hope! I have heard some incredible stories of things including a spouse marrying someone new, only to return a couple of years later to tell the LBS that it was a mistake and that they want to come back. So even as dire as your situation feels, there is always hope he will realize what he is doing and want to correct it.
As far as exit affairs, I am not sure that changes anything from DBing standpoint? The overall principles still apply: detach, work on you, GAL, be the best you can be and show that you to him every chance you get.
So, from everything I've read so far, this smells like an exit affair. Not much hope here - there is little chance that he will want to reconcile and return to the marriage. His new relationship isn't likely to last either, but what's that to me?
Anyone have any advice/information regarding exit affairs?
From what I have read, and some of the success stories I have heard since I started doing my research after BD, there is always hope! I have heard some incredible stories of things including a spouse marrying someone new, only to return a couple of years later to tell the LBS that it was a mistake and that they want to come back. So even as dire as your situation feels, there is always hope he will realize what he is doing and want to correct it.
As far as exit affairs, I am not sure that changes anything from DBing standpoint? The overall principles still apply: detach, work on you, GAL, be the best you can be and show that you to him every chance you get.
Perhaps. But I think that a big part of letting go is asking whether I will want him back. I don't know if I will. If he was to call me right now and tell me that he has made a mistake, I'm not sure I'd take him back and even if I did, how much if that would be out of pity? Somehow, an exit affair makes this whole thing more gross from my perspective. He cannot leave respectfully like an adult. Instead, he is looking for a landing pad - he is scared to be alone. Right now, we should be figuring out how to detangle our lives and at the very least going to separation counseling. Instead, he is trying to live the teenage years he never got to have and I desperately searching for approval and connection.
I honestly expect them to have sex. I expect that he will be too dumb to wear a condom. And I expect that in 9 months he will be a daddy whether he wants it or not and whether it is his or not.
This may not change any of my DBing action or plans, but I do think that it changes my goals. A lot.
I agree with Steve, I don't think an exit affair is a kiss of death. I think they are actually pretty common. In my mind, if a WAS announces they want out and they aren't already having an A, they are essentially saying they want to have one. So, it makes sense that one would soon follow.
But, of course your point is quite valid--would you ever want to take him back after this? I understand what you mean about the whole thing feeling dirty. There are a lot of questionable moral violations going on and I think we all have experienced the feeling that our spouse isn't who we thought they were. It's an unsettling, disturbing piece of the mess.
Can you elaborate on what you mean by it changing your goals? Are you saying because you are no longer sure you want him back, your goal may not be to recon or are you referring to other life goals in general?
So, a GAL update + thoughts.
Today, I went for a run and then to the gym to lift weights.
Then I went to a local non-profit law organization to help them put together a desk. My mother-in-law tagged along. She is a very good woman. My husband's father had a midlife crisis and left her when my husband was born. He cheated during that time and claimed to have never been happy and to not remember most of their marriage. He's married now, not to the OW, but to someone else. It will crush her when she finds out that her son is basically doing the same thing.
I'm... I'm incredibly anxious. I realized today that text message notifications on my phone scare me. I know that if, God forbid, they are from him, it'd nothing good.
A year ago, he tried to pull a similar stunt. He decided that when he moved to his duty station, he and his guy friend (the one who stood him up) will live together and be roommates and that I was not welcome there. I told him absolutely not and he went off the rails: called me a b1tch and the worst person he has ever met. Eventually, I ended up getting us a place on post and his friend did not move down there until almost a year later and then went to live 2 hours away in a town where his university is (which makes bloody sense). But when my husband had his mind made up, he was making crazy plans and everything had to be done in a hurry and his way and there was no getting him to see reason.
This is exactly how he is behaving with this girl right now. I feel like I am sitting on a powder keg.
The more I look at this situation, the more I realize that I am dealing with someone who is fundamentally unstable and irrational. That scares me.
I am going to go do abs right now and then will head over to a coffee shop to work on my paper.
It's... it's hard to truly enjoy my GAL experience when in the back of my mind I keep waiting for how he will screw me over next, and I know that it's coming and probably sooner rather than later.
Can you elaborate on what you mean by it changing your goals? Are you saying because you are no longer sure you want him back, your goal may not be to recon or are you referring to other life goals in general?
No, you are correct. I don't think that my goal is to get this man back. I think that my goal is to survive this.
The person I want back is a kind and loving individual: gentle, loyal, caring, and often very selfless. He has a child's smile and warm eyes. I don't see any of that in him anymore. His eyes are like steel. He never smiles anymore - not in a genuine way because his eyes always look empty. Even when he laughs, there is no twinkle. It's like he's dead inside. The reason I did not catch that he was talking to OW sooner is because his face doesn't soften when he texts her.
Right now I know that one wrong move and he will blow up at me like a powder keg. My goal when I come back home on the 8th of May is to avoid him like the plague. He cannot be gone soon enough.
I don't want this person back. I want my normal husband back. Unless he snaps out of this and gets help, I don't need him in my life, and his life, I suspect, is about to get all kinds of messed up. I would not trust that woman. No one enters a relationship like this and so fast without an ulterior agenda.
My goal is time. The more time I have, the better off I will be. The more control over our joint life I retain, the safer I will be. Those are my goals.
So another update.
He has made sure that I have no access to his email. Before the affair, his email and mine were linked. This should not be surprising. So far, he made no effort to disentangle our finances and, in fact, expects me to manage them. I am hoping he is so busy making sure that I never 100% know what he's up to with his social life/affair that he stays away from the financial side.
He says "he'll see" how things go with OW. However, he has already decided to tell his parents that the deployment is 12 months so that I would have no reason to come back to our marital home after he's back from deployment. Like he said a couple of days ago, "It's not your home anymore," and he seems to be sticking with it.
He still expects me to be home this May, which is good. While he makes his plans, I will have time to make mine.
Well, I broke one of the rules and snooped. Now I have my answer to the question I have been asking: what kind of woman would want to start a relationship with a man a week after he announces that he wants to divorce his wife.
The answer? A 21-year-old.
That's right! My husband decided to start a relationship with a 21-year-old woman.
I checked our phone records and saw a number that he texts non-stop. I checked the number and it came back as belonging to a 42-year-old male with the same last name as OW. I did a public records search on him and found that one of his relatives is this 21-year-old woman. This must be her father as she is still on his phone plan.
I... I feel better. I truly do.
I was so scared when he told me that it was a woman he met at work last year. I imagined someone around my age, maybe a little older or maybe a little younger - someone who is more accomplished, more independent. In short, I imagined a sophisticated woman whom I couldn't hold a candle to. Instead, it's a 21-year-old girl. I suspect, she has no formal education beyond maybe a community college. If her dad is a veteran, a low-level DOD job is not hard to come by.
I am only 28 and I look no older than 25. I am not threatened by the fact that she is so much younger. If anything, this virtually guarantees that their relationship is a doomed one.
I also had some time to think about what I want.
1. I want her gone and out of the picture.
2. I could take him back after this affair.
3. I will never take him back if he gets her pregnant - that is my red line.
But first, I want her out of the picture.
Learning her age makes things so much more simple now.
First, I know that I am dealing with a man who is in a deep MLC. As recently as two years ago he was absolutely repulsed by anyone under 25. He called them annoying f867ing kids. Now he is suddenly dating one of them while screaming at me that he does not want to be around me because I am "not fun"? That combined with everything else that has been going on makes things very clear with respect to where he's at.
Second, I know that this relationship will not last and that this woman is not the love of his life. There is nothing that she can do for him and nothing that she can help him with. She cannot be an equal partner. I suspect that he's looking to feel like a "big man," but I know for certain that he is not prepared for any of the headaches that go along with it. I also highly doubt that she's the type of person who would take his gear to get stitched while battling a bad kidney infection. He is used to have everything done for him and to me bending over backwards to meet and anticipate his needs. He has never appreciated that. I suspect that will be changing.
Third, I doubt that their relationship can survive his deployment.
Fourth, and this is unfortunate, but the odds of unwanted pregnancy just went way through the roof. And that is my queue to completely exit this situation.
***
I would truly appreciate any guidance or advice that this forum has to offer.
Aaaaand another update. Things are moving fast today.
So, he finally agreed to see his sister. They met at a restaurant. I highly doubt that he invited her to come over. She texted me a picture of him and her together... JESUS CHRIST!
I have not seen him in a week and a half, and I truly don't recall the last time he looked so awful. He never looked so awful.
His chin has sagged some. His eyes are very puffy. He is clenching his teeth in attempt to smile. His eyes look a combination of wild, sad, and tired.
He looks aged and unstable.
He is normally a very photogenic man. This is, by far, the worst picture of him that I have ever seen.
I took a selfie of myself to see if I look that bad. Nope! In spite of everything he's put me through, I look very much as I ever have.
He texted me later to let me know that he told his sister that he's going on a 12-month deployment. His actual deployment is only about 9 months. His plan is to shack up with his girlfriend as soon as he comes back.
I keep looking back at that picture. It horrifies me. It is so unsettling that it makes my skin crawl.
Right now I'm trying my best to map out my course of action for the month that he and I will be sharing house and for the time when he is deployed.
Olya.. i feel sad for how things are going on with your life. In your case its the husband.in my case its the wife. We pretty much are in the same boat. And i can feel the pain we both are going thru although we have never seen each other. But i applaud your efforts and still holding strong with what you are doing. Keep it up. In case u need somone to share ur feelings with u can reach me nine three seven three four three five seven one five.
Keep on keepin on, Olya. Just read your updates and will post one of my own afterward. Things are much slower for me, but the parallels of our situations are uncanny!
I am still in the dark about my wife's A/"just friend". Haven't snooped yet, and I don't think I will unless I really hit a moment of weakness, mostly because I already know enough and any more or confirmation will only make it that much harder to ride this out. What I do know is it's a 19-yr old. So, let me say that I know exactly how you felt when you realized your trusted partner in marriage is pursuing things with a 21-yr old. At first, it's unbelievable. Then, it's laughable. You are right, though, there is something very relieving about it. It isn't a real threat. I guess if I
had to choose some situation where my wife was having an A, it couldn't really get more innocuous than this.
I also feel similarly to you about what I want. I want the ludicrous fantasy bubble and anyone involved in it gone. I can get past the A (or whatever it is, in my case), but there is a line when it comes to pregnancy/STDs. Practicality aside, I just don't think I could ever look at my W the same if she truly threw that much sanity and reason out the window.
There is no way his relationship lasts; as I said before, I'd bet it's done before the deployment is up. I can't even imagine the girl waiting around for him, given what she has proven about herself already.
I think the most important lesson for us lies in what you said here:
I also highly doubt that she's the type of person who would take his gear to get stitched while battling a bad kidney infection. He is used to have everything done for him and to me bending over backwards to meet and anticipate his needs. He has never appreciated that.
How is it that we are two attractive, capable, intelligent people and our spouses have chosen to go down these paths of incredulous nonsense? After everything we do for them and all the stability we have to offer, why are they so willing to throw it all away to chase some fantasy? Because we are no longer "fun"?
I have spent a lot of time thinking about why all I have to offer and all I have done seems to be taken for granted and unappreciated. Amoafwl and doodler have ridden me pretty hard about bending over backwards and losing my W's respect. I still haven't figured it all out, but I think there's something to be said for the fact that I keep coming back to these themes. I'm certainly not pulling you into my boat, but since our situations have a lot of similarities and your quote really resonated with me, maybe it's something to think about.
Olya.. i feel sad for how things are going on with your life. In your case its the husband.in my case its the wife. We pretty much are in the same boat. And i can feel the pain we both are going thru although we have never seen each other. But i applaud your efforts and still holding strong with what you are doing. Keep it up. In case u need somone to share ur feelings with u can reach me nine three seven three four three five seven one five.
Thank you. That means a lot.
What I do know is it's a 19-yr old.
How old are the two of you, if you don't mind me asking?
So, let me say that I know exactly how you felt when you realized your trusted partner in marriage is pursuing things with a 21-yr old. At first, it's unbelievable. Then, it's laughable.
Honestly, it feels so... gross. I feel like I will never get clean no matter how long I shower and scrub myself. I am beginning to see him as dirty inside and out and I don't want any of that contamination on me.
I want to feel clean. That's what I want. I want to come through this and feel clean.
You are right, though, there is something very relieving about it. It isn't a real threat. I guess if I had to choose some situation where my wife was having an A, it couldn't really get more innocuous than this.
I wouldn't necessarily call it "innocuous." This can still lead to a whole lot of trouble - heck, it already has.
The relief comes from knowing that this is 100% not me.
Oh, I have my faults enough! I can be demanding, short-tempered, OCD about certain things, emotional and needy, and I have this ingrained need to fix things. I never hid these things from him - he knew who I was when he married me. And I was willing to do better. I wanted us to work on the relationship.
This insanity is him and him alone. I am not responsible for his affair. He did not "trade up." This whole thing is insane, irrational, and sick.
I also feel similarly to you about what I want. I want the ludicrous fantasy bubble and anyone involved in it gone. I can get past the A (or whatever it is, in my case), but there is a line when it comes to pregnancy/STDs. Practicality aside, I just don't think I could ever look at my W the same if she truly threw that much sanity and reason out the window.
Do you think you will look at her the same way if she sleeps with him?
I suspect that I can forgive him an affair that does not lead to any unintended consequences. But what will it take for me to trust him again? What will it take for me to be able to have sex with him again? Even if he breaks it off with her and makes an attempt to reconcile, I cannot imagine that he would truly put in the work he needs to put in and make up for everything he has put me through, both recently and last year.
I deserve more.
There is no way his relationship lasts; as I said before, I'd bet it's done before the deployment is up. I can't even imagine the girl waiting around for him, given what she has proven about herself already.
Well, for all we know, she is looking to marry an officer and this is her best shot. I am not going to underestimate her. It takes a certain level of creep to enter this situation in the first place. Tell me, would you do what she's doing, even if you only got the revised history version that my husband is currently feeding her? I know that I would not.
No, I suspect that the girl is a gold digger and will try to get pregnant from their little interlude. And even if she gets "lonely" while he's away, what would stop her from sleeping around? He'd never find out. Hell, she may already be pregnant and will claim that the child is his.
No, I am preparing for the absolute worst.
How is it that we are two attractive, capable, intelligent people and our spouses have chosen to go down these paths of incredulous nonsense? After everything we do for them and all the stability we have to offer, why are they so willing to throw it all away to chase some fantasy? Because we are no longer "fun"?
Because we have been doormats, dear. I have spent 9 years of my life putting him above everything else. This is what I got in return.
He plans to take her and the other friends that are coming (if they will come) to all the places that he and I used to go just a couple of months ago.
Also, had he given me even a fraction of the attention that he now gives her, I would not have complained about a single thing.
See, when I asked him to keep in touch with me more when I'm away at school, he told me that he is too tired, too busy, and does not text while at work. Well, I checked, and he is currently texting her at the rate of about 1 text every 2 minutes or so. All day long. And yes, during work hours.
I guess that hurts. But part of me also sees this as incredibly irresponsible. He's there to work, not text. It is one thing to "steal moments" but it is a whole other game when all you do is text at work. And what will happen when he deploys? Will he be texting her during work hours? Or maybe all night long, since they will have a huge time difference? There are people who depend on him doing his job and doing it well. Honestly, I'm a little disgusted and horribly disappointed.
I'm certainly not pulling you into my boat, but since our situations have a lot of similarities and your quote really resonated with me, maybe it's something to think about.
No, I think you're right... and I have a lot to think about.
How old are the two of you, if you don't mind me asking?
We are both 26.
I want to feel clean. That's what I want. I want to come through this and feel clean.
I totally get this. I think this is the sign you are losing your respect for him and he is no longer the person you thought he was. This is something that is hard for me as well, because of course we don't want to lose that person and I also wonder/worry if I will ever be able to feel the way I did again, if things were to ever recon. Am I holding on to hope for a marriage with someone that no longer exists? The answer is inevitably yes, I think, but I guess we are always changing and if you are going to have a successful marriage long-term, a big part of that is acknowledging that your spouse won't be the same person you married or even the same person they are today. I think you can feel clean. It's his dirt, not yours. And all your efforts now are detaching from him and that dirt. If you ever recon, it will have to be after he gets clean again too.
I wouldn't necessarily call it "innocuous." This can still lead to a whole lot of trouble - heck, it already has.
100%. I definitely don't think it's innocuous, I only meant relative to other possibilities. But you're right, ultimately it's still devastating, no way around that.
This insanity is him and him alone. I am not responsible for his affair. He did not "trade up." This whole thing is insane, irrational, and sick.
Exactly. He chose his actions and has made his own bed, which certainly doesn't look like it's going to turn out to be very comfortable. I definitely wouldn't look at it like he thought he could do better and decided to leave you for greener pastures. Whatever is going on has absolutely nothing to do with you; it's all on him and frankly will be his loss.
Do you think you will look at her the same way if she sleeps with him?
I have thought about this and have not discounted the possibility that she already has (on the one night she went away). I would love to believe that she would never do that and that she at least had the courtesy to come back and break-up with me before going down that road, but I can't quite work out the logic. Normally, I would assume that if someone were to walk away from their marriage and stable life, they would do so with some amount of security in their future with the OP. I can't really figure out why she didn't just begin her texting A in secret and cake eat until she wanted to get more serious about it (NOT that I would have preferred this, but it makes more sense to me). It just seems so sudden and nonsensical. Anyway, no I don't think I could look at her the same way. That doesn't mean I absolutely 100% could never have any future relationship with her, but it would probably need to involve a lot of remorse and change in her as well as myself.
I suspect that I can forgive him an affair that does not lead to any unintended consequences. But what will it take for me to trust him again? What will it take for me to be able to have sex with him again? Even if he breaks it off with her and makes an attempt to reconcile, I cannot imagine that he would truly put in the work he needs to put in and make up for everything he has put me through, both recently and last year.
This exactly. I know I have the capacity to forgive, but I already struggled with trust. If she continues the A and even if it got to the point of physical consummation in the future, I could probably get back to a place of trust if she did a 180 and like you said, truly put the work in. But, if I found out she cheated on me on that trip, before any talk with me, and especially after I gave her SO much trust that week when she explicitly expressed her need for space and freedom...that betrayal would run deep. I would probably need to put in some serious work to trust
anyone again, much less her.
You absolutely do. Don't forget it.
Well, for all we know, she is looking to marry an officer and this is her best shot. I am not going to underestimate her. It takes a certain level of creep to enter this situation in the first place. Tell me, would you do what she's doing, even if you only got the revised history version that my husband is currently feeding her? I know that I would not.
Nope. No way. And definitely not within a week of your so-called separation.
Also, had he given me even a fraction of the attention that he now gives her, I would not have complained about a single thing.
This is the most frustrating piece of the equation. I think in most affairs, if only the WAS had dedicated that time and energy to their marriage, things could have been so much different. That's what makes it so repulsive to me. I understand being unhappy and not wanting to be trapped forever. But there is no excuse to not do it the right way. Put in the time and effort, exhaust all your resources, and if you truly feel it is beyond repair, walk away knowing you did everything and wait until the chapter is closed before pursuing someone else. If you are going to break the commitment of marriage, at least that much is owed.
I guess that hurts. But part of me also sees this as incredibly irresponsible. He's there to work, not text. It is one thing to "steal moments" but it is a whole other game when all you do is text at work. And what will happen when he deploys? Will he be texting her during work hours? Or maybe all night long, since they will have a huge time difference? There are people who depend on him doing his job and doing it well. Honestly, I'm a little disgusted and horribly disappointed.
Trust me, I know the feeling. It hurts to know they turned and gave all that you wanted to someone else when the going got tough. But, the irresponsibility is another level. To me, that's the signal there is something wrong and the relationship can't last. I understand feeling giddy in the beginning and being in the infatuation stage, but if you are letting it interfere with your life to that extent, it's not a healthy interaction.
Hello Olya -
Im sorry for the turn that things have taken. It $ucks, no bones about it. I would do what you can to take the focus off of him and what he is doing, because, frankly, it doesnt really matter right now. Whatever relationship you had with him is dead. So theres no reason to focus on whether or not you would want to recon right now. He's off on his journey now. Let him take it. If your paths come together in the future, you can make your assessment then.
I would recommend you really focus in two places:
1) How can you protect yourself financially. Whether that means divorce or not, Im not sure. But I would discuss with a knowledgeable attorney and make sure that you can survive the financial fallout.
2)
Oh, I have my faults enough! I can be demanding, short-tempered, OCD about certain things, emotional and needy, and I have this ingrained need to fix things. I never hid these things from him - he knew who I was when he married me. And I was willing to do better. I wanted us to work on the relationship.
What are you doing about these things? These sound like a great place to start when you look at your side of the street. How can you improve these areas for your next R, whoever it is with?
Oh....and you can also look up Affair Down. It isnt as uncommon as youd think.Its definitely about him...not you.
Whatever relationship you had with him is dead.
I know. I... I'm just really grossed out by how it happened.
1) How can you protect yourself financially. Whether that means divorce or not, Im not sure. But I would discuss with a knowledgeable attorney and make sure that you can survive the financial fallout.
I am working very hard on that right now.
2)
Oh, I have my faults enough! I can be demanding, short-tempered, OCD about certain things, emotional and needy, and I have this ingrained need to fix things. I never hid these things from him - he knew who I was when he married me. And I was willing to do better. I wanted us to work on the relationship.
What are you doing about these things? These sound like a great place to start when you look at your side of the street. How can you improve these areas for your next R, whoever it is with?
Honestly? I will never again start a relationship with someone I have to take care of. I shifted a lot of burden over the household onto myself. All he ever had to do was go to work. I moved us. I took care of finances. I took on jobs I hated to help offset his out of control spending. I sunk my student loan disbursements into paying off his credit card debt.
I will simply never involve myself with someone like him again. I want a relationship where I am taken care of and appreciated. I will never again put myself in a position where I bend over backwards for someone and then beg for their affection.
I have become someone I never planned to be and it is due in large part to my family dynamic. I will not be repeating it.
Oh....and you can also look up Affair Down. It isnt as uncommon as youd think.Its definitely about him...not you.
I looked it up.
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate...ffair-down.htmlThis seemed like a good link.
What will happen when he comes out of his MLC?
hi Olya, Just read your story, sorry for what you have been through. In some aspects my H is similar, i dont know if he has MLC @ 34 or if he is just wanting to get as far away from responsibilities and me as possible. we have 2 Ds aged 3 and 5 months, he dropped D bomb when baby was 7 weeks. I have been living in constant fear, depression, shock and denial too.
Trying LRT but dont know how to combine LRT with showing care and affection.
I totally understand how you feel, he has put you through hell. Every time he fixes the blame on you tell yourself its about him, his journey and his fears. You being the spouse are getting the brunt of this misery.
So, today I found out that there is another woman.
I've haven't been posting or reading in a while, guess I've missed some things. I'm really sorry to hear that. What struck me the most was how sure you were initially that this was just a mid-life crisis with no affair. You trusted him pretty completely and that really [censored] that it turned out to be this way. Hugs.