Hey everyone, happy to find a place to post and chat with others going through this. I've been going to my wife to ask and explain our situation and it's not been helping. Adding stress and anxiety and pressure to an already tough situation.
Some background married for 12 years, 3 kids, D11, D8, S6. We've known each other since we were young kids, she being 14 years old, me being 16. I'm the only man she's ever been with. For a good portion of that early relationship, we were long distance. Writing letters, long calls, the heart wants what it can't have. At this time, I did see other people, my wife did not.
When I was old enough, 18 years old, I started to commute and visit her regularly, driving hundreds of miles on weekends, back to work on Mondays, working construction at the time.
Moved in with her and her parents at 19. Lived in the basement. Worked with her dad. Paid rent. Decided to join the military, build a life and future for myself, my wife included.
Fast forward, she comes out to live with me after she graduates high school at my first duty station. Lived together for 3 years. Ups and downs, young couple, living together. Intense passion and some arguments. Got into online gaming with her, just doing our best as a young couple. Love is strong, but it's still young love, we argue at times, I'm inconsiderate, etc.
One day, she asks me if I want to get married. I accept. I know that is not ideal. She mentions it every now and then how she proposed to me and will never have that moment. Lots of mistakes are adding up. It's like you can't avoid it being together so long.
Anyways, we get married, ups and downs like any married couple. After about 4 years, my wife decided she was no longer in love with me due to my gaming addiction and lack of attention. She wasn't a priority. She let me know after I got back from a trip that she was moving out. So abrupt, had already gotten a place. No notice. I'm hurt, angry, but I knew that I had a problem gaming and quit. She moved out. I was lost. Angry, hurt. I did all the wrong things the first month. Pleading, angry, struggled with feelings of betrayal. One day I came upon Divorce Busting. I focused on myself, GAL, followed divorcebusting 180 rules, and kept up hope - showed her my best, tried to prove that I could grow from that. Long story short, the fire was re-kindled, fell back in love. I was at a place of complete peace with getting back together or moving on with my life and I took the jump to get back with her. Life was good again. Beautiful light shone on both of us.
The next few months and years were good. We had two more children, my middle D and my youngest S. We moved back to the state where we met, took up a new job, all new surroundings. I started to get involved in "networking" - late nights out with others, coming home at 2am drunk.
That escalated. DUIs. Late nights, no calls, no texts. Probably occurred every other week on Fridays. Just became a thing for me. I wasn't there for her again. The more hurt she felt, the more she pulled back, protected herself, rejected me. I was spiraling. Searching for that out drinking and taking her for granted again. It was wrong, I know.
I eventually had an incident at a strip club where I let a lapdance go too far, oral sex ensued. I didn't let her finish, but guilt drove me to tell my wife. She didn't leave me, didn't file for divorce, she forgave me without a second thought.
We're three years down the road from that. I've slowed it down, but I still go out every now and then. I still go missing sometimes without texting/calling. I come home the night before Thanksgiving at 3am.
I'm gambling, I'm drinking, I've cheated - not a full blow affair, but it's bad. I'm arguing with her, we're fighting regularly. I'm letting my emotions out, she's letting her emotions out. I'm "emotionally abusive" one night after a night of fighting in the car in front of the kids. I call her the "b" word. She hits me, slaps me, spits in my eye. I deserve it.
Here I am. Realizing how terrible I've been, how horrid of a husband I've been to her. I blew it.
She dropped the bomb Jan 29, 2018. She doesn't want me. She doesn't need me. She doesn't love me.
She's staying in the house, separate bedrooms, going to counseling to work on it. She's told me she's going to see how it goes in time. She's trying for the kids and the kids alone. She has no regard for me, she's protecting her heart, the walls are up. I'm hurting now, I'm seeing what I've done. I realize now. Why did it take me this long, I'm a fool. Blind, worthless fool. I don't blame her for what she's done. She had to do it for self preservation. To protect herself.
I've been totally in agreement. I don't deny how I've been. I know I'm wrong. I'm afraid though, it's too late.
I'm not sure how I let it get here. Why I did all of that. I regret it all, apologized profusely. Spent the last month trying to turn it all around, be better, prove myself. Too late. Why now she says. Why now?! She asks angrily. I have no answer, just regret, just pure empathy for her.
I'm committed to working on a better self. She's committed to giving it time and space, maybe she can heal. Maybe not. No promises. Living in the house, separate bedrooms. I miss her, but I don't deserve her. I hope for a reconciliation. I hope for healing for my marriage. I don't deserve it, but maybe there's a chance.
Feeling lost, hopeless, depressed. She caught me crying today and comforted me. What in the hell is wrong with me and how did I get so lucky with this woman. Yet, I threw it all away with my behavior. Inside I know, I ruined this, I got us to this point..
I have to focus on the good, focus on hope. I feel thoughts of desperation, how I've ruined my family. Destroyed my life. I feel hopeless...depressed...life is hard, so hard at the moment. I push on for my kids, for her - for a chance to make this right.
Am I wrong? She hasn't just left. She's here in the house, but she said it's over. She's going to counseling but it's for me she says. She hasn't said for sure divorce, but when I ask or we start to talk that's the direction she leans. Only when I let it be, try to spend time with her and kids, and just relax does there seem to be hope.
I'm needy, I want more, I want touch, love. I'm a weak person. She is the rock of our family.
Looking for advice, support. I know I don't deserve it, but please...help.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
In, I'm sorry to hear about your sitch. You will hear a lot of good advice on this board. Other the counseling, what other things have you done/tried?
Be sure to read all the links in Cadet's post, they help, and work. GAL, detach (lovingly), 180. And no R talks, validate if she initiates (validation is the hardest for me, my H has been the one to initiate any R talks, and I take the bait every time). You'll get through this, the key is to get through any be ready for any outcome.
Wow. I feel so sorry for your wife.
Most of the people that post here are people that are going to be able to relate more to your wife then to you. Which is why this might be a great forum for you.
Perhaps reading some of the anguish and hurt experienced by some of the posters here... most of whom were victims of abuse and neglect just like your wife..might give you some sense of empathy.
I think you need to explore your sense of selfishness and entitlememt with a therapist though.
Your wife is certainly not a wayward. She is definitly a walkaway and would be netter off with a man that is loyal to her.
What can uou actually do for her and your children at this point? Seems like that would be the biggest 180. Consistently being responsible for your family. Nut not to win her back. More for the sake of meeting the needs of the others in your life, instead of meetimg your needs.
"Im needy, i want more, i want touch, love"
Me, me, me, me.
This is the problem amd has always been the problem.
And nows the time to address it.
How do you think you can address it? Religion? Therapy? Self reflection? Resolving foo issues? Some serious 2x4s?
I really feel like you are on here to learm some techniques (typically deployed ny marcissists) to attract her back onmy to to this again until you are ready to discard and do even more damage.
Whats your true motivation? Please explore this.
Exactly as Juju said.
What is your motivation?
You say you were here before. What’s different THIS time?
To me, it sounds like you wrote - “the heart wants what it can’t have”
Seek IC. Fix YOU and maybe, just maybe she will still be waiting.
Fix YOU.
I want to come out of this a better person. I want her to be happy, no matter what. She's trying to give us a chance. I'm going to IC now every Tuesday. We both go to MC every other week.
Everyone says let her go. I'm trying to make peace with that.
While I know I don't deserve her, I want to make it work. I guess at this point all I have are her requests for time and space.
That is what I want to give her, while I work on myself.
I am just hurting now in the realization of what I've done and the consequences. I guess my actions have led to this, my wife wanting out, not wanting me.
What do I want out of this situation. The best outcome for my family. My marriage may be over, but I am going to keep working on me to see if there is a chance. Time and space, living in the same house.
I find myself going down the rabbit hole of anguish and thoughts of the future where I'm replaced by another man. My kids calling someone else father. Being alone filled with regrets. I'm trying to show that I can be better than I was.
The old me must go. The old marriage is dead and gone. I'm trying to create something from the ashes, but know that I can not control that. Still...it hurts.
Well, I commend you for having the courage for posting your story. If there is one thing that is more rare to see on the board than a wayward wife.......it is a wayward husband! Let me rephrase that and call you a former wayward husband, since you have stopped your previous behavior that was destroying your MR. FWIW, I am a former wayward wife, and I hope you will accept my warning in the right way. In the beginning, there may be only a few people who have difficulty saying what you want to hear. Spouses like you and like me, have caused so much pain for the majority of the people here. However, if you will stick with it, you will get the information you need.
Just to clarify, are you and W currently attending MC? Have you considered IC for yourself, before getting MC? I mean, if you don't why you acted so badly and took your W for granted and verbally abused her in front of your children........don't you think you need to find out what your problem is......before your MR can be healed?
It is good if you feel remorse and have repented from your former behavior. If you were addicted to gaming, and you were being charged with DUI's........there is a good chance you will be faced with other addictions. No matter how badly you may feel now, if your W gives you another chance.....you may start taking her for granted again. BTW, are you still drinking and going home drunk?
So, if I were your W, I would want to see some assurance that you are getting help with your addiction problem. Having stopped "all of that" is a good starting place, but it doesn't help her trust you that it won't happen again.
Something stood out to me about how your W responded to your bad behavior at the stripper's club. She kept saying, "Why now"? Do you have a clue to what she meant, or did you try to find out? I think those words are key to why she is not responding to you now. I can't help but think it had something to do with her decision to move out when she returned back from that trip a few years ago. She ended up sticking it out with you......instead of carrying through with some other plan. Maybe that other plan was an opportunity that she gave up to be with you. But, you won that round........only to mess up big time. I suspect this is your final chance.
You can save your marriage. You have to save yourself, first, and get the help to make the changes you need to make for you and your family. Whether your M makes it or not......those kids will always be your children and need a decent father and role model. So, you should have a lot of motivation to get to work. I don't say this to beat you down, but hopefully, encourage you to see past your guilt and see those lives that you influence.
By the way, the rules of 180's (as you made reference) do you mean Sandi's 37 rules?
When I joined the board and read DR, I felt it was mostly geared for the LBS.....rather than the wayward or walk-away spouse. However, it still helped me. Remember that you are the one that showed up on the board, and wanting to save your M, so you will be the spouse who gets the information. If you have not read Divorce Remedy, I encourage you to get it ASAP. I don't want to discourage you by saying how rare it is to have a WH post his story......I just wanted you to be prepared.
I hope you will stick with us. There really are some terrific people here who will try their best to support your efforts in turning your life around for the better.
I broke down, cried. She consoled me, afterwards we went to Costco and I put a hand on her shoulder and she looked pained, angry.
Led to a conversation, I started. What's the matter.
Argument, tough feelings, she called me controlling and manipulative. I co'erced her into allowing physical touch.
I will continue to change my ways and fixing what I need to fix.
I am staying out of the house too for the next 3-5 days. Space and time.
Had a tough couple of days. Constantly engaging her to talk about her feelings. No empathy, no kindness, brutal assessments about me that I refuse to deny because they are mostly true. I am taking all the blame. I can do no right. Kids are noticing her behavior. I want to prptect them from our issues. Comforted our oldest d11. She told her mother, " I feel like you talk to me like you talk to dad. I heard you tell him you dont love him. Do you love me?" Wife is angry, not happy. Blames me further for all of this. Demands space...tells me i am ignoring her pushing her to divorce. I try not to say anything. My words are soft and i still get told i am an idiot. I cry opely about my situation. More controlling behavior according to her. My daughter cries and my wife looks at me with fury.
I must detach even more. I must shut my mouth entirely. Now I must observe without being tied to the outcome. Smiles earlier this week are replaced with threats of divorce. Words kill us and any chance at us. Yet we continue to " try for the kids".
Im still trying to understand how this time is different than before. You said you were here and had success in reigniting your marriage and commitment. What would be different about the third go-round? To me, it reads like you are only interested in W when you cant have her.
Constantly engaging her to talk about her feelings.
I am taking all the blame. I can do no right.
I cry opely about my situation.
I mean, how is any of what you are doing attractive? Playing the hurt puppy dog and making her out to be the bad guy IS controlling and manipulative. You 'take all the blame' but sit around moping and pouting.....how is that protecting the kids? To me, thats just exposing them to your issues.
InFocus, look up Nice Guy Syndrome. I'm seeing some tendencies in your postings.
Steve..what nice guy syndrome are you seeing?
Throughout the marriage he cheated on her - (with a stripper and others) which exposes her to some deadly diseases. (HIV, stds that cause cancer) which effects the children because it makes them at risk for having a sick mom or shortening the life of their mom.
He depleted family funds on gambling, addictions, partying with his friends while she was home taking care of the kids.
He emotionally abused her (which is psychologically damaging for years)
And even now continues to gaslight by making her look like the villain in front of the kids.
I dont hear remorse at how he hurt her amd the kids. Only how she no longer is giving him what he needs.
Thats what he is remorseful for.
Infocus, what can you do that is selfless for your family? Financially? Physically regarding housework and care for the kids? How can you make it about them and not you?
Juju, all of that could fall into the NGS category! You'd have to read about the syndrome to fully understand. And I don't want ot break the board rule about endorsing a non-MWD book.
Juju, I have remorse, people make mistakes. As far as STDs, her health, I told her what happened and got tested. I screwed up, but owned it.
My addictions have cost us money. But I am a fantastic provider and never has our financial situation, home, basic needs been jeopardized.
At this point, the light has come on. I am done trying to fix myself or this situation. Now I detach and be the best me I can be.
I appreciate the comments and insight as always. I have let go now of expectations and will focus on the kids and their well being.
I am a good father at the very least and that will be my path for now. I also realized...this is not about me. This about her. Her feelings are ber own. I have no say, I can only witness and stand up for my own self respect, regardless of my mistakes.
Pushing onward...take care all.
InFocus, please keep posting. We can help keep you accountable.
Thanks Steve. Appreciate the support.
Everyone says let her go. I'm trying to make peace with that.
Who is "everyone"?
Are you preventing her from leaving, if that's what she wants? Didn't she say she was staying for the sake of the kids?
I am just hurting now in the realization of what I've done and the consequences. I guess my actions have led to this, my wife wanting out, not wanting me.
When you were engaged in your BBB (bad boy behavior), did you not think this could happen? Actions have consequences. My guess is that you were consumed with your own feelings to the point your brain really did not think she would react the way she did.. Whatever led you to those type of actions will come for you again......if you aren't prepared to handle your issues in a healthy way, then you'll probably fall into old patterns again. In other words, this is bigger than just getting your W back.
With that said, everyone here identifies with pain. That is the common thread that weaves us together here. Keep that in mind, when you read the replies.
I find myself going down the rabbit hole of anguish and thoughts of the future where I'm replaced by another man. My kids calling someone else father. Being alone filled with regrets. I'm trying to show that I can be better than I was.
Part of this is your fear...........especially if you are staying off the bottle and your head has cleared. (Are you? You haven't said. ). Another part is your guilt telling you this is your fault and you deserve whatever choices she makes for the future. Perhaps another part is you wallowing in self-pity. I am not trying to throw arrows at you, by saying these things. I want you to realize this type of mindset could defeat you! It will keep away the very thing you want most. Therefore, what can you do to change your current mindset and develop a healthy one that bring better results? I don't mean you should shift the blame, or ignore the reality of your situation. I mean how can you deal with all of these emotions in a healthier way?
I know how guilt feels. It can devour your life, if you continue giving it power. The more you feed guilt, the bigger it gets. I'm not suggesting you justify your behavior. I am not saying you should not feel remorse. Once we accept full responsibility for the choices we made, then we humbly ask for forgiveness, and work like hell to turn ourselves into a better, happier, healthier person. Whether or not the offended party forgives us, we still have to push ourselves to move forward....... for
ourselves. You don't want to live like this forever, and you've learned (I hope) not to lose yourself in a bottle.....or get temporary sexual gratification with another woman, or losing your life to gaming. That is not living, and it compounds your problems.
Forgiving yourself may not come, unless you have a spiritual mentor or seek mental health counseling. You won't ever forget (I hope), but you can reach a healthy place where you do not dwell on it.....and you move forward. Flogging yourself does not help your MR, or your life with your children. And frankly, it does not help you become attractive to your W. You do not want to appear you are feeling sorry for yourself, and neither should you continue flogging yourself.........b/c it eventually becomes disgusting for the W to watch. So, if you are doing any of that now........you have to stop it.
Fear is an emotion. It can paralyze you, if you give it enough power. You feed fear the same way you feed your guilt. Guilt and fear reside in your thoughts. You either give those feelings power by constantly giving guilt and fear your attention and feeding them, or you figure out how to get help and stop feeding it. Be smart, and do what it takes to become the best man you can become.
If you will start helping yourself heal, instead of focusing on how you're losing your W......you won't be chasing near as many rabbits.
Had a tough couple of days. Constantly engaging her to talk about her feelings. No empathy, no kindness, brutal assessments about me that I refuse to deny because they are mostly true. I am taking all the blame.
This is extremely unattractive behavior in a man. Are you looking for empathy? Your W is angry.....and she
should be angry! This is not something a woman can just hug it out and forgive. She has to have time to forgive. She feels betrayed, disgusted, and probably other emotions, as well. It doesn't matter if that woman at the bar meant nothing.......your W's pain is hers to feel and deal with. And if you don't stay out of her personal space.....she is going to move away. Every time you bring it up and want her to discuss her feelings......you remind her how this is all your fault. Stop trying to get her to talk about her feelings! That is a suicide mission for the MR. It puts emotional pressure on her.....and she will leave to get away from it. Understand? So stop it. She doesn't want to hear lip service from you. She needs to see a new and better man, before her feelings will change. The more you ask.......the more you kill any chance of reconciling. If you'll stay out of her face and give her time, she will figure it out. She might even see areas she needs to improve herself. But, you've got to give her some emotional space.
Comforted our oldest d11. She told her mother, " I feel like you talk to me like you talk to dad. I heard you tell him you dont love him. Do you love me?" Wife is angry, not happy. Blames me further for all of this. Demands space...tells me i am ignoring her pushing her to divorce. I try not to say anything. My words are soft and i still get told i am an idiot. I cry opely about my situation. More controlling behavior according to her. My daughter cries and my wife looks at me with fury.
If you are trying to make your W look like the bad guy here.......you are being a jerk. You have caused your W to be angry, and she can't contain it and those emotions overflow to the kids. I have to agree that this looks like controlling behavior from you. If I were in her shoes, and thought you were manipulating my children......I would not react nicely, I promise ya.
Stop crying openly! Don't you dare cry in front of your W, and/or the kids! That's disgusting, and it's not how a man should act. Stop trying to make the kids take your side. If you have to bawl, leave the house, or go in the bathroom and bury your head in towels where nobody can hear you.
Listen, your goal should never be to get your W's pity. It should be to gain her respect. Pity and respect for her H will not go hand in hand in this situation. The more empathy you try to get, the more it turns her off. So, stop playing on her feelings of tenderness. It will not get the love you want.
At this point, the light has come on. I am done trying to fix myself or this situation. Now I detach and be the best me I can be.
How do you mean you are done trying to fix yourself? How have you tried to fix yourself? What are you doing to gain self-respect, and to gain your W's respect for you?
Yes, pull back and stop putting emotional pressure on your W. This is your mess to clean up. Yes, be a good father, but don't play psychological games and cause them to feel they must choose sides between you or their mother. Be careful that you don't appear to be taking the kids away from her, or as if you are persuading the kids.
I hope to hear you have found a psychologist to help guide you in building a better, healthier man.
Have you set healthy goals for yourself?
What are you doing to get lots of physical excerise?
Are you staying away from strip bars? Your form of getting a life, should not be anything similar to your previous activities. Do you have healthy activities to replace the old destructive ones?
Do you have good a good buddy that isn't involved in similar activities or lifestyle that you were in? You need to detach from people who would encourage you to go get drunk with them, or go play games, gamble, or anything that triggers your addictions. Having a buddy that has his own life in a healthy place, could be someone to help hold you accountable......and encourage you, too. Do you have a healthy male role model?
As I've previously said, you have to replace the harmful habits with good ones. Otherwise, your life will feel so void that the temptation to return to old ways is too great. Those type of patterns were some way that soothed your needs and gave superficial gratification. It may start by you wanting to escape your reality for a little while, but it leads you down a dark tunnel. It has no benefits, only painful consequences.
So, I encourage you to get out your calendar and make plans to do things with your family on special days. Learn how to make the arrangements or organize the activities. If W doesn't want to participate, then don't push her. Remember, no pressure. Show the kids a great time. Devote weekends to activities with the kids. Take some time for yourself by doing something fun, but wholesome..........staying on the straight & narrow road. What do you enjoy doing for fun? Any hobbies, projects, etc.?
Anyways, we get married, ups and downs like any married couple. After about 4 years, my wife decided she was no longer in love with me due to my gaming addiction and lack of attention. She wasn't a priority. She let me know after I got back from a trip that she was moving out. So abrupt, had already gotten a place. No notice. I'm hurt, angry, but I knew that I had a problem gaming and quit. She moved out. I was lost. Angry, hurt. I did all the wrong things the first month. Pleading, angry, struggled with feelings of betrayal. One day I came upon Divorce Busting. I focused on myself, GAL, followed divorcebusting 180 rules, and kept up hope - showed her my best, tried to prove that I could grow from that. Long story short, the fire was re-kindled, fell back in love. I was at a place of complete peace with getting back together or moving on with my life and I took the jump to get back with her. Life was good again. Beautiful light shone on both of us.
Reading what you write, it sounds like you are addicted to this "in love" feeling.
If I were your wife, I would have a hard time believing if we were to reconcile (again) that once the 'fire' started burning lower 2-3 years down the line that we wouldnt be in exactly this spot for the third time.
Ive asked you twice and Im still very unclear - what is it that is different now than the last BD? Why would your W expect that the third go-round would be different still?
Thank you Sandi for the comments and insight. I recently went out with family, had some drinks, came home and pressured her for affection. I drink still and have comitted to doing it less and staying out of the wrong situations like bars, etc. Soaking in your advice.
Regarding crying and pleading. Yeah, thats done I hope. Realization hit with the kids starting to notice. Regarding done fixing, I meant I feel like I have to do what I need to do rather than fix what she says was always wrong. For me to heal I must forgive myself. I have been wallowing in my wrongs and self pity and asking her to feed it by engaging her when she is sad.
I am working on respect and self respect. As you said, dominated by fear anxiety and uncertainty. I have been weak. I have taken her for granted. I did not think this could occur and so once more I took her for granted. But there is always 2 sides to this. If I focused completely on her, where do I begin? We keep finding ourselves here because I need more and want more than she can give. She is probably exhausted by that.
These are all realizations for me. I have been blind in the blanket of her love and acceptance. Now what? I want her happiness now. My kids happiness. My happiness...but not at the cost of the above.
I can not predict the future, but maybe you are right. I am doing what I always should have done now.
Why is she sticking around? For the kids yes. There is maybe the slightest ember of love too. I am killing it atm. Seemed like I was doing good first few weeks.
I am addicted to the in love feeling. Arent we all.
I realize my actions have shown I am selfish and controlling narcissist. How do I kill that guy so the real me, the one who is here 99% of the time is the one she sees when she looks at me.
For me the difference is we have been through more, survived more, loved more...but suffered more. I am driven to fix it and rebuild it for the kids...for us.
Last time I worked on me and focused on myself. Quit gaming. Lived life. Let go. She came back to me because deep down, I am a good, responsible, loving, fun person. I am not as evil as my drunken indiscretions would indicate.
I hope that helps clarify. Thanks again!
Why are you still drinking? You've had DUIs. You are an alcoholic. The best way to change, I believe, is to give up drinking completely. If you aren't in AA you should be. You will never get through DBing and DRing by abusing substances of any kind. It is hard enough to be consistent when sober, let alone drunk or high.
If you aren't willing to stop drinking, I don't think you have much chance of success. Sorry to be so blunt.
Steve, you might be right. A beer now and then. Perhaps I need to really really change. Not for her, for myself. Scared of life without alcohol. That was my escape. Where I did not feel burdened with constant pressure and responsibility. Where I could socialize and let loose. Maybe I am here because of those thougjts and sentiments a d the actions around it. Wow. Thanks.
I've been there brother. Trust me, life is much better alcohol free. Those that can imbibe in control can do the "beer now and then". Those of us with a history of drinking problems (mine were when I was much younger and well before I met my wife) can't even do that.
Antidepressants are on my mind. Going to the doctor tomorrow. Also have IC tomorrow. Trying to get off the rollercoaster atm. At work, I seem and appear good...little do they know the turmoil beneath the surface.
I am addicted to the in love feeling. Arent we all.
No. I can safely say that we are not all addicted to that.
I mean, it's a great time. But it isnt realistic for that to be your life for years and years. Relationships dont work that way and expecting them to is dooming the relationship.
Do you equate love to those 'in love' feelings?
No, I work hard for love. It is a choice. I have made poor choices mixed with the good. I have been living two lives.
Now what. Focus on my good. Enhance my good. What is bad has been done and I face those consequences now.
No, I work hard for love. It is a choice. I have made poor choices mixed with the good. I have been living two lives.
Now what. Focus on my good. Enhance my good. What is bad has been done and I face those consequences now.
Im sorry if you are taking offense to my questioning. I know that it must seem like I am just criticizing without providing actionable direction.
Thats because I still dont really understand your goals and motivations.
I read that you gone through this and then reverted to similar behaviors. It makes it very hard to understand this "lightbulb" moment that you describe. Did it come on several years back and then turn back off? Did you 'fake it' last time and now you are going to do things for 'real'?
To couple to that, you describe your marriage as a high with the "in love" times of passion and a low in the interims. You write that you work hard for love, but I havent seen any evidence of that in your posting except when you felt like you were in danger of losing your W.
So to wrap those things together, I challenge you again. How would your life and your relationship be different this time? What incentive is there for your W to walk down the road shes already walked down twice with you after having bad results both times? To me, those are the questions you should be asking yourself as you structure your goals on how to improve yourself. Until I understand the answers to those kinds of points, its difficult to really give you actionable advice outside of the generalities you are already reciting - "be my best self" and so on.
My goal right now is peace and calm. Internal and external. I have no lofty goals at the moment. Control of my emotions. Detached but present. Understanding, calm, demeanor. I want my kids to feel peace and joy. My wife to feel at ease.
I understand what your going through brother. Hope all things get better, be patient and let time heal some wounds, work one yourself to become a better person for yourself and your kids, the wife will see the change if you put the effort.
She is coming home soon. I have anxiety regarding our interaction. I will stick to sandis rules. I pray that God gives me the strength to do so.
Thank you all for the kind words and incite. I truly appreciate them. I will keep you posted. Doing well right now...calm peace...my kids have smiles. this is good enough.
So, some revelations. You can not compromise who you are at the root, you can work on your behaviors, habits, actions, but you have to be true to yourself. Respect the power of who you really are.
I keep making mistakes. But I refuse to let that bring me down or cripple me. I am human. We all are. While I have made mistakes, it is on me to fix myself how I see fit.
Also, this isnt about my feelings. This is about hers. I cant "fix" that. I can only witness and support as best that I can.
Yes, I aired my dirty laundry here. Yes, some of you decided to judge me. I am cool with that and respect that.
Where am I at. The crossroads of uncertainty and that is an exciting place to be.
I welcome change, because it is up to me to welcome and accept it.
Wrote her a long text message today and we spoke briefly. While she was not receptive, I had to say it. It cleared the air on my intentions to stand by her forever...even if she decides our marriage is over. I do not want that but I am man enough to love without want or need.
I came here looking for validation and support. I realized that will only come from within.
Yes, I am flawed. But by God's design, I will grow and learn from this and use this situation to be a better man.
Much love and respect for all of you. Thanks again!
I am working on respect and self respect. As you said, dominated by fear anxiety and uncertainty. I have been weak. I have taken her for granted. I did not think this could occur and so once more I took her for granted. But there is always 2 sides to this. If I focused completely on her, where do I begin? We keep finding ourselves here because I need more and want more than she can give. She is probably exhausted by that.
I don't think focusing completely on her and nothing else is the answer to a healthy MR. I am not saying you should focus on another woman.......but I mean have enough interests in life that you are not codependent on your W. Maybe part of your problem is that you get too dependent, too focused on one thing.......and when the initial stage wears off......then you need more.........b/c you aren't as satisfied as you were in the beginning. Let me ask you something. Do you have a tendency to take everything you enjoy and "run it into the ground"? It's like overkill. You can't stop yourself. If it's a new game, new relationship, new food, new hobby, whatever.
I realize my actions have shown I am selfish and controlling narcissist. How do I kill that guy so the real me, the one who is here 99% of the time is the one she sees when she looks at me.
It may take lots of therapy. IDK, but I don't think your desires will completely be satisfied or the answers are going to come easily/quickly. At least, until you get professional help. Why? B/c you don't appreciate it if it's too easy, too plentiful, too fast. Maybe you don't value something unless you think you can't have it at all,.........and then, that's all you can think about.
I suspect you are addicted to several things.........mostly to whatever gratifies you in that moment. You are an alcoholic, and it scares you to death to think about facing life.......or even imagining life without alcohol. It has been your crutch, your escape, your motivation, your god.......whether of not you've admitted it.
You don't need anti-depressants, nearly as much as you just want an escape from your miserable reality. The fix is not in a bottle, a game, porn, pills, food, or any of the stuff you turn to when you want something else, something more......something better...... than the current reality. You don't even know what you want for yourself anymore. You only know you don't want to feel what you feel today.
((hugs))
Yes, some of you decided to judge me. I am cool with that and respect that.
Im very sorry if you felt that I judged you. To me, what happened in the past isnt that important....what IS important is what you can learn from your past behaviors to improve your future.
I believe until you address your own internal issues, your next relationship will end up back here. Whether thats after a second reconciliation with your wife or with a new girl. Youve already been down this road once with your W, and Im not sure why this time would be any different yet. I cant see where youve indicated what you have learned or how this time would be different. It very much comes across as what Sandi wrote:
You only know you don't want to feel what you feel today.
I dont think there is anything WRONG with you. But I think you are showing a pattern of behaviors which can be destructive to your relationship. Until you can root out those issues, I am worried about the possibility for you to have success with your partner - whoever she might be.
The root of DB is about changing ourselves.
I welcome change, because it is up to me to welcome and accept it.
So let's talk about this. What changes are you making? What goals do you have for InFocus2.0?
While she was not receptive, I had to say it. It cleared the air on my intentions to stand by her forever...even if she decides our marriage is over. I do not want that but I am man enough to love without want or need.
So....you say you 'had to say it'. But.....why?
What are your goals? If it is to reconcile your M, then anyone here would have told you that this is only going to hurt your chances. You say this was loving without wanting or needing, but sending a note like this sounds like it was for your needs.
We all want you to succeed. I hope that you will keep posting. AT the very least, I hope that you take this opportunity to really do some work in the mirror. Who is InFocus and what do you want for him?
InFocus, first let me say this place is to help people become the best they can be, and unfortunately that often means we have to hit people with "truth darts" and 2x4's and it's not always pleasant for them. And this post my friend, is not going to be a walk through a field of daisies for you. But I think you need more of a wake-up call then you seem to have gotten so here it goes:
You are a broken man. You have wronged your wife in so many ways that it frankly boggles my mind. And now you want to throw the world's biggest pity party for poor little you. Buddy it's time for you to man up. OWN what you did. I don't mean sit around crying in front of everyone over how bad you've been (all while watching to see if they see you, and what their reaction is, right??), I mean DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Get in IC right away. Do 180's on ALL of your bad behavior. Accept that your wife is WAY better off without you (because right now, she is) and LET HER GO. Now let's break down some of your comments:
I've been going to my wife to ask and explain our situation and it's not been helping.
What exactly do you want her to "explain"? Are you unclear on how bad of a H you've been to her?
For a good portion of that early relationship, we were long distance. Writing letters, long calls, the heart wants what it can't have. At this time, I did see other people, my wife did not.
So even early on there was this pattern of her being loyal and you doing whatever you wanted.
Lots of mistakes are adding up. It's like you can't avoid it being together so long.
Oh yes, you can absolutely avoid it. You have to WORK at defusing tense situations and avoiding/ managing conflict in a long-term marriage. You need to quit trying to convince yourself that bad behavior is OK and "just happens" in a long-term M.
After about 4 years, my wife decided she was no longer in love with me due to my gaming addiction and lack of attention. She wasn't a priority. She let me know after I got back from a trip that she was moving out. So abrupt, had already gotten a place. No notice. I'm hurt, angry, but I knew that I had a problem gaming and quit.
YOU were hurt and angry?? How do you think SHE felt? Probably abandoned and betrayed. Does that matter to you at all, what SHE felt? Do you devote any time to contemplating that?
She moved out. I was lost. Angry, hurt. I did all the wrong things the first month. Pleading, angry, struggled with feelings of betrayal.
Angry? Feelings of betrayal? YOU are not the victim here, SHE is!!!!!
One day I came upon Divorce Busting. I focused on myself, GAL, followed divorcebusting 180 rules, and kept up hope - showed her my best, tried to prove that I could grow from that. Long story short, the fire was re-kindled, fell back in love. I was at a place of complete peace with getting back together or moving on with my life and I took the jump to get back with her. Life was good again. Beautiful light shone on both of us.
Well it's great that you were able to turn things around thanks to DB'ing, but you can't go right back to old habits, the DB changes are for LIFE. But not only did you go back to old habits, you picked up some nasty new ones.
That escalated. DUIs. Late nights, no calls, no texts. Probably occurred every other week on Fridays. Just became a thing for me. I wasn't there for her again. The more hurt she felt, the more she pulled back, protected herself, rejected me. I was spiraling. Searching for that out drinking and taking her for granted again. It was wrong, I know.
She didn't reject you, you rejected her. Again, you are trying to paint yourself as a victim here but she is the victim. You abused her emotionally.
I eventually had an incident at a strip club where I let a lapdance go too far, oral sex ensued. I didn't let her finish, but guilt drove me to tell my wife. She didn't leave me, didn't file for divorce, she forgave me without a second thought.
"Didn't let her finish", do you seriously think that makes a difference? You must or you wouldn't have said it. What you did is have sex with another woman. Not only that, but with some skank in a sleezy strip club. That is an absolutely disgusting act. Your wife may have forgiven you, but that is something she will never forget (as well she shouldn't).
I'm gambling, I'm drinking, I've cheated - not a full blown affair, but it's bad.
"Not a full blown affair", are you trying to convince us or yourself that what you've been doing isn't "that" bad? You betrayed and abandoned her, let's not try to plant flowers around this, it's as bad as it gets.
I'm "emotionally abusive" one night after a night of fighting in the car in front of the kids. I call her the "b" word. She hits me, slaps me, spits in my eye. I deserve it.
I'm certainly not going to defend what she did, that was terrible. But you calling her the B word in front of the kids is indefensible as well.
I'm not sure how I let it get here. Why I did all of that. I regret it all, apologized profusely. Spent the last month trying to turn it all around, be better, prove myself. Too late.
A month of changed behavior after years of abusive behavior is nothing. I think what you are trying to do is change for a while hoping you can get her back so that things can go "back to normal" and you can resume abusing her and living your partying lifestyle of bars and strip clubs. What you need to do is BECOME A DIFFERENT PERSON. You need to do it for you and your kids. The byproduct of it will be that she EVENTUALLY (a year or more from now) will see that you really have changed and that it's not just tricks to get her back, and she may very well become attracted again to that DIFFERENT you. But you have a lot of work to do in the meantime. What is your game-plan for becoming different? Right now you remind me of the addicts on those intervention shows that cry and show remorse and talk about how they are going to change everything from now on (all while still high from their last hit) and it lasts anywhere from hours to a few days before they revert right back to old habits. Talk is cheap. Change requires a LOT of hard work.
I'm needy, I want more, I want touch, love. I'm a weak person. She is the rock of our family.
And how can you turn it around and go from being weak and needy to being the rock for your kids?
I cry opely about my situation. More controlling behavior according to her.
I think she's right. You are controlling and manipulative and even now you are using your grief displays to try to guilt her into returning. You know what I did after BD? I would cry all the way on my long commute to work, then cry all the way home. I would pull it together in the driveway, walk in the house and say hello to my W and kids, ask everyone how their day went, then go in the bedroom to change clothes, lock the door, go in the closet and cry some more. Do you see the difference there? My family never saw me cry. Even though I felt like I was going to die, I never stopped being the rock for my kids. WHY ARE YOU CRYING IN FRONT OF THEM? Be honest with yourself, dig deep.
Words kill us and any chance at us. Yet we continue to " try for the kids".
No, words did not get you here. Your actions did.
At this point, the light has come on. I am done trying to fix myself or this situation.
You are done trying to fix yourself? Then I feel so sorry for your wife, your kids and any other woman that ever comes into your life after your wife finally gets smart and divorces you. You are a hot mess, your ONLY goal right now should be to fix yourself.
I am a good father at the very least and that will be my path for now.
Based on what you've posted here I'm not sure that's the case.
I also realized...this is not about me. This about her. Her feelings are ber own. I have no say, I can only witness and stand up for my own self respect, regardless of my mistakes.
It actually is about you and your abusive, controlling, manipulative behavior. It's about your bad habits. It's about the fact that you talk about everything you've done wrong and then play it down, and cap it off by talking about "self respect" when you should have absolutely none.
I recently went out with family, had some drinks, came home and pressured her for affection. I drink still and have comitted to doing it less and staying out of the wrong situations like bars, etc.
You've committed to doing it LESS???? What about NOT AT ALL?
I keep making mistakes. But I refuse to let that bring me down or cripple me. I am human. We all are. While I have made mistakes, it is on me to fix myself how I see fit.
Listen, you have got to stop all this feel-good BS talk. Your goal isn't to fix yourself how you "see fit", it is to stop all your crappy behavior and become a different person. Quit drinking, quit abusing people, quit lying, controlling and manipulating. Don't excuse it all away as "oh I'm human, I make mistakes now and then" because that is a cop-out.
So what are YOU going to do TODAY to become the spouse only a fool would leave?
Still around? Hope to hear from you again.
Hi sandi. Hello everyone.
On March 16th, she dropped the decision to divorce. On March 18th, I told her I would fight for joint custody, as our issues aside, I'm a good father.
That morning, we argued - I called her a selfish b*. She called the cops, left the house and I have not seen her since. On March 21st, I was served with a Restraining Order against me, my kids, and my pets - effectively kicking me out of the house and also securing her short term custody and complete control of visitation.
While I have had my issues, I've admitted to them and gone to counseling. In my opinion, the recent moves on her behalf are tied to her trying to posture for full custody of the kids during the divorce process.
The extent of the TRO revolves around our last few months of arguing and me pleading late at night to work on the marriage and be physically intimate - she recorded me on some of those occasions. There is little to nothing about the kids, other than they witnessed us arguing and my eldest was sleeping in the bed when I was pleading for physical touch.
While I was not perfect, I was definitely being set up for this divorce so that she could get exactly what she wanted.
I have also discovered for the last year she's been having some sort of EA, possibly PA with her boss who is a doctor - also married.
In fact, she told me asked to transfer 9 months ago, because of "career" reasons - but in truth I believe it was to stop the EA/PA from continuing with my wife.
While I'm not sure - I'm seeing lots of phone calls now on our Sprint bill - which I wish I wasn't snooping on, but I feel completely blindsided.
I've lawyer'ed up and she hasn't yet. But I suspect it may come, depending on how the TRO process shakes out. I will contest it all the way, as I have a job that requires me to have a clean background/security reasons.
I'm hurt right now. Perhaps I pushed her into the arms of another man with my behavior, but she could have talked to me - we could have worked on it.
Instead she's running, making sure I look like the bad guy, and pursuing her boss who's a married man...all the while living out her MLC - partying all night with girlfriends, using drugs, and not coming home until the next day.
I've been understanding, based on my past behavior - I felt she had the right to cut loose.
Unfortunately, I'm now in this predicament.
Not sure how to approach her tomorrow at the TRO hearing. Positive detachment comes to mind. I'm working hard on being a "Spouse only a fool would leave", but it's hard as I haven't seen or talked to my kids in 2+ weeks.
What do I do here guys? I can't compete with a doctor..a married doctor. I can't compete, I can't even talk to her.
She's blinded by this affair and the possibilities of freedom and more male attention, and I'm sure she feels confident that she'll win a huge child custody award and alimony - but my lawyers are fairly certain based on what they've seen that I'm good for at least joint, maybe sole custody (not my intention at all though).
I'm hurting, I'm scared, I've been lonely for weeks.
I was going out drinking before she told me divorce - it was just so hard. But now, where I'm at now - I'm not touching alcohol.
I've been working out, eating well, trying to focus on work (I'm really good at what I do and it pays me well). I'm looking better, feeling better - but I sometimes dwell on the loss. Of her talking to her boss daily.
I question if I should ask the kids if he's been around or they've been secretly meeting at my house while I'm gone. I'm scared of the answer and almost positive I shouldn't put that on my kids - but I feel a compulsion to know.
I miss my kids, hoping that this TRO works out so I can start seeing them. I love them so much.
Part of me though worries, once I start having the kids, that she'll go full blown into this EA/PA with her boss - that hurts me for some reason. Maybe cause I still love her after all this. I have even forgiven her for most of it...I guess now I have to try and forgive the EA/PA - not for her, but myself...it's hard - so hard.
But I'm a strong man, I got my kids on my mind, my goals set, I'm determined to prove to her she's made a terrible mistake. I feel obsession to grow from this experience.
I want this divorce now too, I need it to feel clarity, so I can have time and space. I'm not the control freak she makes me out to be, she's the one playing me like the fool. I fell for all of it. Love/marriage, wow. What a screwed up arrangement.
One time to Marriage Counseling and she throws in the towel - like it's just a check mark.
The weirdest part is I still feel like I should be apologizing for my faults. I was wrong with some of my behavior. Especially all the pleading, begging, chasing, pressure I was laying on her from Mar 3rd thru Mar 18th.
No more of that - going full 180, going to follow your rules sandi as best as humanly possible.
I'm still not sure what the future holds, but I'm taking it one step at a time.
As an update. Judge questioned her motives for TRO and she broke down crying and agreed to dissolve it. It was done to posture for child custody and our upcoming divorce.
So sick and twisted to exaggerate and just make me out to be the complete bad guy. I am not sure how to process all the games she currently plays to justify this...her feelings and desire to leave. To be with another man.
Finally get to see and talk to my kids after 3 weeks. Thank goodness for that.
She looked terrible and worn. I am sure the last 3 weeks have been hard on her. I did so much with the kids. Here on out, it's solo parenting for us both. I will not falter there. My kids need me and I will be there like a champion.
I just want to have some say in what days I get the kids, but I don't want to be too picky. Any advice here?
Spoke to my kids for the first time in 3 weeks. Good lord was that sweet! I can survive this folks! I can make it out of this alive! lol.
InFocus, glad the TRO got dismissed. That was garbage. It is scary how quickly a woman can get those these days.
I just want to have some say in what days I get the kids, but I don't want to be too picky. Any advice here?
Talk to your lawyer. You did the right thing getting one. Obviously already paid dividends with the TRO being dismissed.
As far as how to proceed with your wife, read up on LRT. I think you may be at the point where you need to employ it. I know earlier in the thread you were advocating for doing some pursuing despite advice against it. How has that worked for you? You have the opportunity to do a 180 in this regard. I'd really consider it in your case since your W seems so obstinate. Going no contact with an obstinate spouse will often time get them curious. "Why has he backed off?"
No more outburst. Kill her with kindness in every interaction you have with her. She has shown a penchant for running for a TRO, don't give her ANY ammo. She calls you a lowdown so-and-so, you let it roll off your back.
Hi Steve. Thanks for the advice. I am now just following lawyers advice and preparing for the worst, hoping for the best.
Mentally, not sure where I am. She has me as the bad guy in all this. Guess that's what you have to do to get through a divorce your spouse says they will do anything to prevent.
The echo chamber of validation from friends who tell her to leave me, but have nothing at stake and who do not know me certainly doesn't help. Her emotional affair partner certainly makes it seem the grass is greener.
What can I do now than follow DB and DR last resort? I have to detach, GAL, and go thru the motions of moving on. It [censored], because I love her and she loves me I think, but wants to lay blame for all of her unhappiness on me. Yes, I have my faults. I have made mistakes. Now, I will respect and love her the only way I can now. By giving her the divorce she wants. And that makes me confused still...but acceptance takes time.
All communications are thru texts. I will be about kids visits and scheduling remediation in next month or two.
I am still working on me. I have more clarity on my part in the loss of my marriage. Trying to work on those issues and remain positive and hopeful that all things happen for good reasons!
Hope you guys can see how messed up this situation feels to me. Trying to do the best that I can one day at a time.
Been thinking perhaps she will change her mind eventually...but needing that outcome would be a serious mistake to really put my heart and soul into believing.
Externally, my actions will be Sandis rules at DB and actions to GAL.
Thanks everyone. Please feel free to leave a few comments.
Okay, I am not trying to be mean, but some dose of reality is warranted, I think.
FIRST: TRO
Her TRO did not get dismissed. She agreed to drop it. Dumb of her. Based on what you told here, she would have gotten it had she not backed down. It is not hard to get a TRO and you helped her make a very strong case for one.
Instead of complaining how unfair it was of her, ask yourself why she took one out in the first place. You have been hounding her. You have been pressuring her sexually. And, I promise you, your children hear and see ALL of it.
SECOND: Sincerity
Your changes were never sincere. Sorry. We cannot change who we are, but we can certainly make ourselves more palatable. You probably cannot help yelling when you are angry. I get it. I'm the same way. You can, however, refrain from showering your wife with profanities in front of your children. You can also wait long enough for those children to be out of the ear shot before you blow your gasket. You haven't been doing that, have you?
If you want your wife back, you need to stop drinking. You need to stop going to strip clubs. You need to stop running your mouth without thinking. Completely. Not "I do less of this now" or "I'll stop just long enough to get her back." Completely. If she comes back, you don't resume what you have been doing. If you want your wife back, then you need to be done with this lifestyle. If she doesn't come back, but you still hold out hope that any woman worth her salt will look at you, then you need to be done with this lifestyle.
Deep down, you have to know this. You said it yourself: you don't think that you can compete with a married doctor. MARRIED. So, a hopeless affair is better than being with you? Think about it.
THIRD: Do some soul searching
There's a lot of "me" and "I need" in everything that you say. Your needs seems to be fulfilled only when you directly get something that you want. Ask yourself why you don't seem to be able to receive deep and meaningful happiness from seeing someone you love smile? Sometimes, doing things we don't want to make others happy can be very rewarding. Not all the time: 50/50. You strike me as a 100/0 kind of guy. I'd suggest getting some counseling. I'd also caution you that if you and your wife do get back together, you'll have to be giving her much more than 50, because it sounds like you have a lot of zeros to make up for. But she has to want what you have to offer - you can't badger her into it, and I suggest you don't try.
I'm sorry if I came off harsh. I empathize, I do. But you really do have to realize how destructive what you're doing is.
I agree. I have thought the same thoughts.
But what about helping me to understand the position. Communicating with me on what steps I should be taking and supporting me?
She checked out long ago. Then, when she had already decided to divorce, she put all the pressure on me to 180 everything she felt wrong.
Not only that, posturing to win complete custody of our kids.
Yes you are right about my behavior, but not about how much work we both gave to make it work. I gave 100 And she gave 100. And after 13 years, she quit on us. I will quit all of that behavior that destroyed my marriage. That is my personal commitment to myself. Not to get her back, but for me and my kids.
We all lose in divorce. Everyone. She thinks that running from our issues and escaping to someone else will be better. Sorry. We have kids. It just gets more complex and the hurt, pain, and even LOVE will always be there...and it's sad.
So, be honest, after everything you have done - the cheating, the name calling, the drinking - do you really have the right to ask that she support you and help you change?
Also, when did you start giving 100? Timing matters.
I'm here because my husband wants a divorce. My major crime in our marriage is being short-tempered and demanding. Yet, I'm doing my 180 without his help - I am not expecting it and I am not asking for it. Nor is he required to appreciate any changes that I make. It's just how the cookie crumbles.
And... now I'm going to have to be brutal with you. Sorry again.
The custody thing may be her way to get back at you. Happens all the time.
BUT
It also might well be an expression of her sincere belief that you do not belong around your children. Don't think about all the good times that you have with your kids and the times when you've been a great dad. Think about the times when you were gone, sleeping around, and calling their mother names. If your wife was to leave you and re-marry and her new husband behaved that way around your kids, would you want your kids around the new husband?
I am not telling you to sign away your custody. Not at all. I am telling you that you need to stop fighting about the children for the time being and you need to start showing that you are a stable and, more importantly, a positive influence on them.
She wanted to drop the TRO on the kids the day she filed it. It's in the police report when I was served.
I am a fantastic father and I would never take away their relationship with their mother.
You sure like focusing on the guy who is honest and open regarding his faults. Guess I need more of that or that just speaks to your pain. I am also truly sorry you are foing thru your marriage possibly ending.
I never thought that going out 1x a month was a big deal if I was home before 4am.
I guess when she started staying out overnight and doing drugs, I gave her a free pass because of what I had done.
I have not been myself because of the divorce held over me. That's why I pursued and yelled and pleaded.
Letting go has been hard but also a blessing. I can be myself. The guy she loved for 13 years.
Yes, going out was wrong. I was wrong.
But I am a good dad. My kids need me and they should know I am here for them no matter what.
And the arguing...yeah they notice their moms behavior and disrespect more than mine.
Part of the TRO was the fear of what the kids would eventually think. They were already telling her "Why do you yell at me like you yell at dad. I heard you tell him you dont love him. Does that mean you don't love me."
I am not fighting about anything at this point lol. I am going with the flow.
My lawyers will state my position on custody. My wife and I already agreed on all the other things and assets being split 50/50.
I am being the change. Thanks for the reinforcement to keep doing so!
When we separated the first time it was over games. I quit the instant she told me she was done with our marriage. She still moved out. It took me moving on when she came back around after 5-6 months. She fears me now because the love and attraction are real, but my behaviors hurt her and make her feel unloved.
At this point, it may be too late to save. But I will do all the right actions and behaviors to make her realize her mistake.
Just like most of us on here in this forum. We are striving to be better.
She's not here. What good would it do to focus on her? Whom would it help?
The point is this:
1. A successful TRO can screw up your life. The magnitude depends on what you do for a living. Don't do anything that will get her to file another one.
2. Don't put your kids in the middle of this. Having them make these comments to their mother or to you is not appropriate from a parent-child relationship standpoint. It also shows that between you and your wife, you're already doing damage. Your goal should be to stop contributing and to reverse some of it WITHOUT turning them against their mother.
3. You cannot change her. You can only change you. That comes with remorse and a desire to do better. I command you for trying and for doing this for your kids. If your changes are lasting and genuine, she'll notice. Maybe she'll decide to give it another try. Maybe she'll move on but will choose to have a functional co-parenting relationship with you. But you cannot expect her to just give you a chance. If you want it, go earn it. If she still doesn't give it to you, then at least you will be able to honestly tell yourself that you tried.
4. If she does come back, don't give free passes and don't assume that what you're doing is okay - ask with full understanding that you may not get the answer you want to hear.
She only has to believe and tell me so at this point and the world would stop for her. I may have taken her for granted these last few years, but as she takes me for granted now, I will not stop loving her. Even if I never see or talk to her again. Still...gotta live. Gotta continue.
She wants this divorce. Any thoughts on if I should resist or try to slow it down or fight it?
She wants this divorce. Any thoughts on if I should resist or try to slow it down or fight it?
I feel like if you truly love her as much as you say, then you will let this divorce go through at the speed she pushes for. I wouldnt help speed or slow the process.
You have already gone down this road once so nothing you say or do can be believed by her right now. I would stop focusing on her and OM. Use this time to truly focus on you and your kids and become the best InFocus that you can. Really look into your addictive personality and figure out who you are and who you want to be. Then start living as that person. If it turns out that you rekindle at some point in the future, then great.
But I would say to set her free to live her life. That way you can focus on what you need to stop making the same mistakes.
InFocus, have you seen about attending anger management? Have you given up drinking and partying? For a judge to see actual steps you are making, would have to place you in a good light, don't you think? Don't be offended by what I am going to say. Staying out till 4:00 a.m. (even once a month) when you are wanting child custody, may not be wise. You are not a single guy who just looking for a wild night. You are a M man with children. That means, responsibilities. Do ever confuse how much you love your children......with how responsible a father you make. Put the action where your mouth is, so to speak, and become a model example of a fantastic father. Be a father the Judge would not think twice about rewarding custody.
Although my sitch was different, I recognize the frustration, unfairness and sense of hopelessness I see in you. I felt a lot of anger when I first joined the board. I was the wayward spouse, so it wasn't like I was going to get a lot of validation and support........until I straightened up my attitude and stopped gripping and blaming my H. It would make me so frustrated for a board member to tell me that my H was not the one here! And if I tried to explain the things my H had done wrong, I would be reminded that I was keeping score.
You know what? I
was keeping score, and that's why I would get so frustrated. It helps sometimes just to know you are being heard, doesn't it? We hear you, InFocus.......we hear you. ((hugs))
I have said much of this previously. You've got to stop watching
her. Stop keeping score. It gets you nowhere but further backwards. I'm concerned that when you don't see positive signs from her side of the street, that's when you want to throw in the towel. No matter the results of the MR, don't give her (or anyone) that type of power in your life. Leave her be, and focus on you and the kids.
Set goals in how you can be proactive in becoming a man who is tackling his addictions and his personal problems in a civil and constructive manner. You can talk about what a great dad you are until you turn purple, but if you really
are that kind of guy.......prove it to the case workers, or the judge.......or whoever wants to see and hear verification that you were more than just talk. Have the backup that can go into court and say, "Yes, this man attended anger management class for XX amount of time. Have someone who can verify you haven't had a drink in xxx amount of days. If you have fines, make sure you've paid them. Do you attend church regularly? Are you in IC? Are you keeping a good attendance record on your job? Are you involved in schools activities with your children? Have you met their teachers and attended parent conferences? These actions make a statement about how serious you are in changing your life for the better.....and being a stabilized father.
If you need a life coach or whatever it takes to give accountability, make strides in your life, and have a more positive mindset.........go get it. Take your focus off everything your W is doing wrong. Just worry about yourself. If you want to set some short term goals and come here every day to talk about your accomplishment or what you need to get a boost......I'll just bet these people will cheer you forward in your mission.
What do you say?
Personally I have no truck with waywardness in any shape or form, hers or yours. It's no way to be a parent.
There are three beautiful daughters in this emotional mess.
Children always come FIRST. Above you or your selfish wayward spouses needs. And yes that is evaluating both of you.
You are here on the board to do that, more power to you. It's time to clean up your act because I see it, these precious mites need one great loving parent and that's you.
Usually there is some deep damage which goes back prior to the M. I think that might be your case, are you having IC?
Are there FOO issues you need to address.
I understand you hurt, feel guilty, possibly afraid. Almost certainly have red anger which seeks revenge?
I think you have no choice but to stand up to the plate, these are wonderful bundles in your life and they have to have the best dad they can have.
This is a time of great change for you, are you dad enough for it?
V
Love the responses guys. I am seeing it more clearly now. I am on it now. Before she kicked me out..before the restraining order I was lost, out of control, reacting, doing all the crap I have been doing for years and doing it more while claiming to be trying. Enough of that. I am going to Ic for anger management, substance abuse, and learning how to handle this sitch. I have a hugely addictive personality, so I realize rather than deny I have to replace them with positive habits and addictions like fitness, self learning and growth, being an active and caring father.
I am not even close to being clear of this mess. I just began. But I am doing it. Day by day, taking it one day at a time.
I will let her drive this at her pace. I will let go. I will focus on my growth and change like a boss. I will focus on being there for my kids. I will leave all the bad habits behind, not for my stbxw, but to prove to myself I am better than that.
I am still scared and afraid, but let my actions lead the way forward so that I become the man I should have always been.
Still just talk...give me some time to do it.
Thanks guys.
InFocus, have you seen about attending anger management? Have you given up drinking and partying? For a judge to see actual steps you are making, would have to place you in a good light, don't you think? Don't be offended by what I am going to say. Staying out till 4:00 a.m. (even once a month) when you are wanting child custody, may not be wise. You are not a single guy who just looking for a wild night. You are a M man with children. That means, responsibilities. Do ever confuse how much you love your children......with how responsible a father you make. Put the action where your mouth is, so to speak, and become a model example of a fantastic father. Be a father the Judge would not think twice about rewarding custody.
Although my sitch was different, I recognize the frustration, unfairness and sense of hopelessness I see in you. I felt a lot of anger when I first joined the board. I was the wayward spouse, so it wasn't like I was going to get a lot of validation and support........until I straightened up my attitude and stopped gripping and blaming my H. It would make me so frustrated for a board member to tell me that my H was not the one here! And if I tried to explain the things my H had done wrong, I would be reminded that I was keeping score.
You know what? I
was keeping score, and that's why I would get so frustrated. It helps sometimes just to know you are being heard, doesn't it? We hear you, InFocus.......we hear you. ((hugs))
I have said much of this previously. You've got to stop watching
her. Stop keeping score. It gets you nowhere but further backwards. I'm concerned that when you don't see positive signs from her side of the street, that's when you want to throw in the towel. No matter the results of the MR, don't give her (or anyone) that type of power in your life. Leave her be, and focus on you and the kids.
Set goals in how you can be proactive in becoming a man who is tackling his addictions and his personal problems in a civil and constructive manner. You can talk about what a great dad you are until you turn purple, but if you really
are that kind of guy.......prove it to the case workers, or the judge.......or whoever wants to see and hear verification that you were more than just talk. Have the backup that can go into court and say, "Yes, this man attended anger management class for XX amount of time. Have someone who can verify you haven't had a drink in xxx amount of days. If you have fines, make sure you've paid them. Do you attend church regularly? Are you in IC? Are you keeping a good attendance record on your job? Are you involved in schools activities with your children? Have you met their teachers and attended parent conferences? These actions make a statement about how serious you are in changing your life for the better.....and being a stabilized father.
If you need a life coach or whatever it takes to give accountability, make strides in your life, and have a more positive mindset.........go get it. Take your focus off everything your W is doing wrong. Just worry about yourself. If you want to set some short term goals and come here every day to talk about your accomplishment or what you need to get a boost......I'll just bet these people will cheer you forward in your mission.
What do you say?
Yes, thank you. I feel so much regret and loss. Anger is there...but the loss and regret is sometimes overwhelming. I feel so lost and then hopeful. I make so much sense one minute and sound crazy the next. I may be bi-polar...not feeling good atm.
Personally I have no truck with waywardness in any shape or form, hers or yours. It's no way to be a parent.
There are three beautiful daughters in this emotional mess.
Children always come FIRST. Above you or your selfish wayward spouses needs. And yes that is evaluating both of you.
You are here on the board to do that, more power to you. It's time to clean up your act because I see it, these precious mites need one great loving parent and that's you.
Usually there is some deep damage which goes back prior to the M. I think that might be your case, are you having IC?
Are there FOO issues you need to address.
I understand you hurt, feel guilty, possibly afraid. Almost certainly have red anger which seeks revenge?
I think you have no choice but to stand up to the plate, these are wonderful bundles in your life and they have to have the best dad they can have.
This is a time of great change for you, are you dad enough for it?
V
I do my best. Feeling really lost atm.
Hi InFocus,
i felt like i have to write to you.
I am not going to be pleasant and comforting you, i believe you do no need to be comforted, but told the reality.
1. I have been there where you are. I was WH had affair, then turn back to marriage, had WAW for 3 years the she turns WW for the last 2 years. So i know how you are filling....
2.Stop pity party game, this is only prolong you way to become real Man. Further more, pity party - like how you are changed and she do not give you attention, affection and sex, and hoovering her with attention and affection and push her for sex, is something that kill her attraction and build so meany negative emotions in her.
3. Found out what your issue are, from where they are, look at you childhood, parents and your life up to now. This is noting to do with your wife. To behave as you told us in the past, there is reason, there is a need that push you there. Found out Why, accept you human, and then do not do the same old behaves and habits. For me was difficult to live with the gilt about what i have done/did not done in our marriage. This gilt stop me to become real Man and respect my self as well as to stand up for me, when my wife become using my gilt to punish (A very hurt woman, could become addicted to the filling of punishing). So accept you were very wrong, and commit to your self never do this again to any woman being with you.
4. Just stop being a mess, left the past in the and made you new past to proud of.
5.Leave you WAW alone to handle her self, i toes not matter is you consider her as WW or WAW. Do not focus of her, and be only person you need to be happy, i you lay on other to made you happy you become codependent. I have been/be there.
Man UP for US and the kids.
She only has to believe and tell me so at this point and the world would stop for her. I may have taken her for granted these last few years, but as she takes me for granted now, I will not stop loving her. Even if I never see or talk to her again. Still...gotta live. Gotta continue.
See, this is what I've been trying to tell you to stop doing.
1. She doesn't have to do those things.
2. She's not taking you for granted because, as far as she's concerned, she's done.
It's not something that's easy to say to someone, and it's definitely not easy to accept. But if you want your W back, you really need to accept these two facts. If you don't, you will only sabotage any progress that you make with her.
Zero expectations.
That should be your goal right now.
Hi InFocus,
i felt like i have to write to you.
I am not going to be pleasant and comforting you, i believe you do no need to be comforted, but told the reality.
1. I have been there where you are. I was WH had affair, then turn back to marriage, had WAW for 3 years the she turns WW for the last 2 years. So i know how you are filling....
2.Stop pity party game, this is only prolong you way to become real Man. Further more, pity party - like how you are changed and she do not give you attention, affection and sex, and hoovering her with attention and affection and push her for sex, is something that kill her attraction and build so meany negative emotions in her.
3. Found out what your issue are, from where they are, look at you childhood, parents and your life up to now. This is noting to do with your wife. To behave as you told us in the past, there is reason, there is a need that push you there. Found out Why, accept you human, and then do not do the same old behaves and habits. For me was difficult to live with the gilt about what i have done/did not done in our marriage. This gilt stop me to become real Man and respect my self as well as to stand up for me, when my wife become using my gilt to punish (A very hurt woman, could become addicted to the filling of punishing). So accept you were very wrong, and commit to your self never do this again to any woman being with you.
4. Just stop being a mess, left the past in the and made you new past to proud of.
5.Leave you WAW alone to handle her self, i toes not matter is you consider her as WW or WAW. Do not focus of her, and be only person you need to be happy, i you lay on other to made you happy you become codependent. I have been/be there.
Man UP for US and the kids.
Thanks, I will do my best to do what you outlined here.
She only has to believe and tell me so at this point and the world would stop for her. I may have taken her for granted these last few years, but as she takes me for granted now, I will not stop loving her. Even if I never see or talk to her again. Still...gotta live. Gotta continue.
See, this is what I've been trying to tell you to stop doing.
1. She doesn't have to do those things.
2. She's not taking you for granted because, as far as she's concerned, she's done.
It's not something that's easy to say to someone, and it's definitely not easy to accept. But if you want your W back, you really need to accept these two facts. If you don't, you will only sabotage any progress that you make with her.
Zero expectations.
That should be your goal right now.
I am getting there. It's taking me a lot of time to accept that. While I feel/think these feelings and thoughts, I do not convey, express, or show any need or desire for her. I actually have no contact outside texts communicating about the children. It's getting easier, but still lingering. My actions have been pure detachment and GAL.
I get the kids today. She may want to talk face to face and that scares me because she can see right thru me.
Just want to do our interactions as little as possible...purely about the kids.
At this point I realize the marriage is over. I am going with the flow. I will not stop or slow divorce, but I am waiting on her to push and drive it since that's what she wants.
Personally I have no truck with waywardness in any shape or form, hers or yours. It's no way to be a parent.
There are three beautiful daughters in this emotional mess.
Children always come FIRST. Above you or your selfish wayward spouses needs. And yes that is evaluating both of you.
You are here on the board to do that, more power to you. It's time to clean up your act because I see it, these precious mites need one great loving parent and that's you.
Usually there is some deep damage which goes back prior to the M. I think that might be your case, are you having IC?
Are there FOO issues you need to address.
I understand you hurt, feel guilty, possibly afraid. Almost certainly have red anger which seeks revenge?
I think you have no choice but to stand up to the plate, these are wonderful bundles in your life and they have to have the best dad they can have.
This is a time of great change for you, are you dad enough for it?
V
I do my best. Feeling really lost atm.
Truly your route through this is for your Ds. For your children, if you put them first above all then you are doing the right thing.
So tell me your plan on this.
What is your best?
V
I am trying to get more time with them. Establish that I am the primary caregiver, as before all this I had the more flexible schedule and took them to school, picked them up, set up extra curricular activities, etc.
I am trying to rent a home that can accommodate us comfortably within 2-3 blocks of our marital home which my wife has completely assumed control of (changed locks). I need to show that I am a big part of their lives. My stbxw seems to want to limit me from them while telling everyone she wants me to be in their life, just on her terms.
I am working on me. Physical, mental, spiritual. I am alcohol free for the last 6 days. Taking it one day at a time.
Going to counseling every week to talk about my issues. Working on anger management, alcohol abuse, how I have acted inappropriately, how to fix myself, how to let go, how to be there for my kids during this tough time.
I am focused right now on being ready for mediation and communicating in a positive way with a stbxw that wants nothing to do with me and blames me for all her pain and sadness.
I am trying to stay positive and happy. Focus on the good in my life and be an example for my kids.
What am I missing here? I try not to focus on the why or the future. It's out of my control. Just me, right now...thats all I have. Doing my best with that.
OK now we are motoring a little.
Let's look at the wording of the above and make these goals, ok?
1 and 2 drop the word trying. Either do or don't. Try is a Weasel word.
3. Let's split that one up. I think you have two goals.
Oh and congrats on being 6 days free of alcohol. That is a huge
Start. Are you 12 stepping? How are you achieving this?
4. Love the IC goal. Can I recommend a free flow journal, just free flow, just for you, needn't even be English with punctuation. Can be anything, good bad, painful etc. None will read just gets the pain on paper.
5. So how are you focusing?
6. So how are you doing this? A gratitude journal? There is a free app called gratitude garden I use almost every day. Deepak Chopra has free meditations on the Oprah site, saves a few pennies. There are great youtube meditations and of course you will be aware of Ted Talks, look at Brene Brown on shame.
Today is just great, getting through today is enough, more than enough.
Can we convert these to a purpose and goal? It's a terrific start BTW.
V
OK now we are motoring a little.
Let's look at the wording of the above and make these goals, ok?
1 and 2 drop the word trying. Either do or don't. Try is a Weasel word.
3. Let's split that one up. I think you have two goals.
Oh and congrats on being 6 days free of alcohol. That is a huge
Start. Are you 12 stepping? How are you achieving this?
4. Love the IC goal. Can I recommend a free flow journal, just free flow, just for you, needn't even be English with punctuation. Can be anything, good bad, painful etc. None will read just gets the pain on paper.
5. So how are you focusing?
6. So how are you doing this? A gratitude journal? There is a free app called gratitude garden I use almost every day. Deepak Chopra has free meditations on the Oprah site, saves a few pennies. There are great youtube meditations and of course you will be aware of Ted Talks, look at Brene Brown on shame.
Today is just great, getting through today is enough, more than enough.
Can we convert these to a purpose and goal? It's a terrific start BTW.
V
Thanks Vanilla...appreciate you and your support.
1 and 2 I am doing. Got a showing today but won't be available for 40 days though.
3 is just about being pure of any and all substances. About clarity of mind and body and spirit, so I can be clear and grounded.
4 I need all the help I can get lol
5 By being mindful and present. Having a plan. Executing the plan. Actions and behaviors correlating to good, civil interactions. I am noticing her strain to talk with me for anything, even when I am nice.
6. Just journaling in my phone, here, and in about a dozen word documents that I do every other day or so. I will check out your suggestions.
My purpose and goals today are to excel at work, see this house and if it's good, apply to rent, pick up my kids, happened some quality time. When it's time to grab their belongings from my stbxw, I will be detached and show positive indifference. She wants my the garage door opener. I will give it.
She may want to talk mediation and how to get rolling on divorce...I need to plan a bit for this. I want to do it, but the children are my #1 concern and I want to be a big part of their lives like I have always been.
She will object to this if I bring it up.
I also want a 6 month timeline to sell the marital home so I can use the equity to buy a new place next year.
What am I missing? Any advice?
I have the bulk of the week with my daughters because i have establish that I am the primary caregiver,I have demonstrated that i have the more flexible schedule and I take them to school, picked them up, set up extra curricular activities, etc. I have documented this for my L.
I am renting a suitable home that can accommodate us comfortably within 2-3 blocks of our marital home and I can show that I am a big part of their lives.
I am working on me in every way physical, mental, spiritual and my life is balanced. I am pure of any and all substances which has given me clarity of mind and body and spirit, I am clear and grounded.
I am proud to be alcohol free for the last 6 days, I am taking it one day at a time. I have an AA sponsor and I attend meetings.
I talk to a counselier every week to talk about anger management, alcohol abuse. Of concern to me is how I have acted inappropriately. I accept my responsibility is to fix myself and I am present for my kids during this tough time by meeting my obligations offering hugs and support every day.
I am focused being ready for mediation and communicating in a positive way even though there are challenges, I understand the process and cooperate with the process as advised by the mediator. I communicate well and without expectation.
A key focus is the good in my life which i diarise and note every day. I am a great role model for my kids by holding firm, staying sober and folowing a strong daily routine.
My major goal is to be with my children and I take my time formulating a plan that will allow this. I keep my plan privately to myself and my advisors.
-------------------------
How does that seem as a suggestion for an action plan you can build on?
V
Camping with the kids. Theyre having fun. Raining. I miss her.
Ok, so an update. Had a nice weekend with the kids. I did miss her, but we had a good time. I was a bit tense and withdrawn, but after listening to my kids - they've been stuck at home the last 3 weeks doing barely anything (my wife is a homebody).
My wife won't even look at me, let alone talk to me, or even text with me, other than to coordinate pickups and drop-offs.
I am apparently someone she wants nothing to do with. I'm still getting used to this obviously. I guess I shouldn't have told her she's being a selfish bitch and that I wanted 50/50 custody because that seemed to create this situation that I am now in.
She's talking to Domestic Violence Advocates and trying to get free legal advice. I'm confused what I should do?
Should I just get my lawyer to file? She obviously wants to be free of me. Should I make it quick? Should I just enjoy the time and space, since I don't want this.
Almost assuredly there is no other path than divorce. She has labeled me "abusive". While it's never been physical, I've been controlling and coercive. What is there to save?
No one can around me can give me any good advice. They say to talk to her, text her, try and have a straight up conversation. It's not happening, she won't let it.
So, what do I do? File first? I feel like I should do it, because that's what she wants and feels is best for her life. I also feel like I'm getting blame still for unhappiness.
Maybe I'm still trying to control the situation. I told my divorce lawyer I need time for her to communicate with me and decide if we can work this out amicably.
Since she completely refuses to talk to me, I guess there is no hope?
Almost assuredly there is no other path than divorce. She has labeled me "abusive". While it's never been physical, I've been controlling and coercive. What is there to save?
There is nothing to save but a possible better and new relationship to gain. Notice the key word in your paragraph: been. You are seemingly working on the traits you don't like about yourself, so stop projecting your past mistakes to your possible future. When BD happens, there is nothing to go back to but something new to be built. You can change and you will if you do the work. Vast majority of people live through their life with a fixed mindset: I was born like this and these traits are my inherent qualities. You have already noticed that a growth mindset (have been but can change/can learn) is a much more healthier option. Believe in yourself and the best advice that you will ever receive is what people really often mention in here: be the spouse only a fool would leave. This guarantees your future relationships to be bright.
No one can around me can give me any good advice. They say to talk to her, text her, try and have a straight up conversation. It's not happening, she won't let it.
Best advice is to detach and work on yourself. There is nothing you can show and words do not mean anything. Actions do, and over a substantial time period. Her feelings are raw and she is in defensive mode to guard her own emotions.
So, what do I do? File first? I feel like I should do it, because that's what she wants and feels is best for her life. I also feel like I'm getting blame still for unhappiness.
What does being divorced help in this situation? What if you stopped the mindreading and let her file if that's what she wants. You are not ready to do it yet.
Since she completely refuses to talk to me, I guess there is no hope?
There is always hope. Let time do its thing. Don't let your pessimistic thoughts to prevent you from truly reaching the goals you have set for yourself. I did this way too long and I regret it, even though I believe I'm living in the present and my history does not matter. I have seen stories of similar cases end up being reconciled and result in much more happy marriages. Be realistic, however, and work on to be in a mindset where you don't care which ever path your story eventually unveils.
There is no edit button so a new message to fix a wrong word. I meant to write "say" instead of "show". Show your changes via actions and be consistent,
Ok, so an update. Had a nice weekend with the kids. I did miss her, but we had a good time. I was a bit tense and withdrawn, but after listening to my kids - they've been stuck at home the last 3 weeks doing barely anything (my wife is a homebody).
My wife won't even look at me, let alone talk to me, or even text with me, other than to coordinate pickups and drop-offs.
I am apparently someone she wants nothing to do with. I'm still getting used to this obviously. I guess I shouldn't have told her she's being a selfish bitch and that I wanted 50/50 custody because that seemed to create this situation that I am now in.
She's talking to Domestic Violence Advocates and trying to get free legal advice. I'm confused what I should do?
Should I just get my lawyer to file? She obviously wants to be free of me. Should I make it quick? Should I just enjoy the time and space, since I don't want this.
Almost assuredly there is no other path than divorce. She has labeled me "abusive". While it's never been physical, I've been controlling and coercive. What is there to save?
No one can around me can give me any good advice. They say to talk to her, text her, try and have a straight up conversation. It's not happening, she won't let it.
So, what do I do? File first? I feel like I should do it, because that's what she wants and feels is best for her life. I also feel like I'm getting blame still for unhappiness.
Maybe I'm still trying to control the situation. I told my divorce lawyer I need time for her to communicate with me and decide if we can work this out amicably.
Since she completely refuses to talk to me, I guess there is no hope?
Take a deep breath. These things are roller coaster rides. Sounds like she is miffed about what you called her and your demand at equal custody. Par for the course. This is why you should try to control your outbursts because they will always make things worse not better. Ok, do better moving forward, but you can't take it back this time so don't dwell on it.
The Domestic Violence Advocacy is a ploy. Likely they will be privately laughing at her. Those folks deal with people that are almost killed by their Hs, so her calling them and saying "He called me the B word!" will be something they really don't care about. Her free legal advice will be "He's never touched you? You need to hire a divorce attorney if you want a D."
But seriously, just slow down. She will eventually come around and want to talk. Give her the time and space she needs to figure out that she needs to discuss things with you. And then remain in control. WWs/WASs are notorious for trying to irk their Hs into doing something they can use. Don't take the bait.
So why the need to be controlling and coercive?
What are your plans to shift this behaviour?
V
Ok, so an update. Had a nice weekend with the kids. I did miss her, but we had a good time. I was a bit tense and withdrawn, but after listening to my kids - they've been stuck at home the last 3 weeks doing barely anything (my wife is a homebody).
So why are you tense and withdrawn? That seems like odd behavior around just your kids. How are you working through that?
I guess I shouldn't have told her she's being a selfish bitch and that I wanted 50/50 custody because that seemed to create this situation that I am now in.
UH. NO. You shouldnt have said that.
Though I think fighting for 50/50 custody is reasonable and a great thing.
She's talking to Domestic Violence Advocates and trying to get free legal advice. I'm confused what I should do?
Protect yourself. I dont think you need to do anything offensive. But how can you defend your reputation and rights? If that means filing, then maybe it's the best choice. But otherwise, I dont know that you DO anything.
Should I just get my lawyer to file? She obviously wants to be free of me. Should I make it quick? Should I just enjoy the time and space, since I don't want this.
On TV, this is where someone would smack you. Stop trying to 'solve' something and just BE. Focus on whats important - you and your kids.
Almost assuredly there is no other path than divorce. She has labeled me "abusive". While it's never been physical, I've been controlling and coercive. What is there to save?
So now would be an excellent time to learn:
1) why you might have acted that way...
2) how to prevent those actions from cropping up in your next relationship...
No one can around me can give me any good advice. They say to talk to her, text her, try and have a straight up conversation. It's not happening, she won't let it.
What exactly does she need to tell you that you dont already know?
Since she completely refuses to talk to me, I guess there is no hope?
Pshhhhh. Talking will only really hurt you right now.
Take the time and actually do something about who you are. Focus inwards and on your kid. When we say this is a marathon and to be patient, we are talking months/year....not days or weeks. Youre just setting off on your journey. Stop trying to control the outcome.
Steve...yes sadly they will laugh at her. Just like you are. But gaslighting, cheating, verbal abuse and manipulation leave some of the biggest scars.
The covertness is the hardest to deal with. She is not a wayward wife. OP's words and posts reek of extreme narcissism and victimization and projection and I am surprised no one sees this.
If Infocus wants to change abusing his W, then addressing this is the first thing he can do. Especially if as he says he is remorseful.
However as yet I don't really see any plans to change it permanently, although not drinking was a great spark of hope.
But there has to be real shift for a long time.
V
Ok, so an update. Had a nice weekend with the kids. I did miss her, but we had a good time. I was a bit tense and withdrawn, but after listening to my kids - they've been stuck at home the last 3 weeks doing barely anything (my wife is a homebody).
My wife won't even look at me, let alone talk to me, or even text with me, other than to coordinate pickups and drop-offs.
I am apparently someone she wants nothing to do with. I'm still getting used to this obviously. I guess I shouldn't have told her she's being a selfish bitch and that I wanted 50/50 custody because that seemed to create this situation that I am now in.
She's talking to Domestic Violence Advocates and trying to get free legal advice. I'm confused what I should do?
Should I just get my lawyer to file? She obviously wants to be free of me. Should I make it quick? Should I just enjoy the time and space, since I don't want this.
Almost assuredly there is no other path than divorce. She has labeled me "abusive". While it's never been physical, I've been controlling and coercive. What is there to save?
No one can around me can give me any good advice. They say to talk to her, text her, try and have a straight up conversation. It's not happening, she won't let it.
So, what do I do? File first? I feel like I should do it, because that's what she wants and feels is best for her life. I also feel like I'm getting blame still for unhappiness.
Maybe I'm still trying to control the situation. I told my divorce lawyer I need time for her to communicate with me and decide if we can work this out amicably.
Since she completely refuses to talk to me, I guess there is no hope?
Take a deep breath. These things are roller coaster rides. Sounds like she is miffed about what you called her and your demand at equal custody. Par for the course. This is why you should try to control your outbursts because they will always make things worse not better. Ok, do better moving forward, but you can't take it back this time so don't dwell on it.
The Domestic Violence Advocacy is a ploy. Likely they will be privately laughing at her. Those folks deal with people that are almost killed by their Hs, so her calling them and saying "He called me the B word!" will be something they really don't care about. Her free legal advice will be "He's never touched you? You need to hire a divorce attorney if you want a D."
But seriously, just slow down. She will eventually come around and want to talk. Give her the time and space she needs to figure out that she needs to discuss things with you. And then remain in control. WWs/WASs are notorious for trying to irk their Hs into doing something they can use. Don't take the bait.
Thank you Steve! It's only been 2 weeks since BD. This roller coaster ride of emotions has me all over the board. I am doing the right actions now. But underneath it all is a storm of emotions. Thank you for the feedback and advice. Truly appreciated.
Letting go. The control and coercive behavior is from my past. It's there lingering in the background. Not trying to make excuses at all for my behavior, but the source is my childhood where I was severely emotionally abused. My control issues are the externalization of my own voice and how I have to reign in all the chaos and need for love and validation. This is why I go weekly to ICounseling.
Vanilla, not sure I can change it other than how I approach each encounter with mindfulness and detaching from emotions like I am observing myself. There are a number of techniques I am learning through counseling. I recognize I have a long way to go. If faced with living with her again, I could not at this point.
Juju, she has walked out on me before due to neglect. While I forgave her and took her back, there has been resentment on my behalf.
I was wrong for what I did, how I treated her, and how I acted. I am addressing those actions, habits, behaviors on my own and through counseling.
Yes, I screwed up. Here I am accountable.
I was tense because it's been weeks since I have been around my kids, let alone solo for the weekend camping in the rain. Being with them reminds me of their mother, whom I miss terribly. I had to bottle those emotions and get.through all of that with a smile and provide love and confidence as a father.
The outbursts are done. I was fighting her decision. Now I simply fight my own feelings of loss and anxiety.
I will continue to take steps to be an equal part of my kids lives and do the right thing by them.
If I protect myself, it would be to file first and set the tone for all potential issues. One is child custody. Two is selling the house or she must refinance on her own credit and income.
I don't have an adequate home yet, I am applying for a home to rent today, but I won't be moving in until May 15th. This complicates overnight stays and getting the kids more frequently.
My behavior stems from insecurity and immaturity, lack of understanding of what real love looks like. My own parents divorce and emotional abuse to eachother and to me. I handle my emotions dysfunctionally, even though my coping mechanisms and my own discipline have led me from literal poverty to some career and professional success.
Keep in mind, she filed a restraining order effectively kicking me out of our marital home and keeping me away and unable to contact my children for a few weeks.
I am not angry as I have forgiven her, but it hurts to be treated that way by someone I thought was my everything.
Just because of an outburst and argument. Never again...I will never allow that to happen again.
Even if it means cutting out my own feelings for her forever. My kids are now my life and I will show it through my actions, behaviors, and habits.
Juju, she has walked out on me before due to neglect. While I forgave her and took her back, there has been resentment on my behalf.
I was wrong for what I did, how I treated her, and how I acted. I am addressing those actions, habits, behaviors on my own and through counseling.
Yes, I screwed up. Here I am accountable.
Hmmmmmm
You forgave her?
Suggest it's she forgave You!
And yes we hold you accountable.
Now will you answer the questions? Because this requires shift and if you really want this then you are here to get the support.
What kind of IC? Are you having CBT?
What resources of your own are you using?
V
My behavior stems from insecurity and immaturity, lack of understanding of what real love looks like. My own parents divorce and emotional abuse to eachother and to me. I handle my emotions dysfunctionally, even though my coping mechanisms and my own discipline have led me from literal poverty to some career and professional success.
Then I think you start here.
How can you have a successful relationship with your W or any other woman with all of this going on?
I think the rest of it isnt that important if you arent working on these things.
Yup
That's FOO stuff rearing it's ugly head again.
V
I don't plan to change what she perceives as controlling nature or coercive behavior. She's leaving because she thought I was controlling. Letting her go basically proves thats a lie.
Infocus it doesn't seem to be a lie.
It is her experience of her R. Which you seem to be validating.
V
Yeah, it was only controlling after she told me she wanted a divorce. Prior to that we didn't really have any issues - her words not mine.
One thing I think I should tell you. After BD1, I was a WAW and very abused in every way possible. I reacted by becoming 'screaming banshee'. This is reactive abuse, and I sought help for it, was deeply ashamed of it. Not good.
This reaction was from fear not anger with a tiny FOO issue which I resolved asap. This was a truly horrible part of my life.
However the abuse arises in you, and I get it, I truly do. In order to shift it then you have to own it.
It's a [censored] sandwich that's homemade, but walking to the pain and digging deep for a long time is the only thing that will resolve it. Then after full on atoning, yes that is another [censored] sandwich if your other half is a complete numpty and you don't want to, then you can forgive yourself.
First you own it and don't blame.
That is my experience and why I am giving you 4x4 as you get one good go at this after that it's uphill.
V
Texts daily about taxes and legal docs and registering my daughter for school. I should just stop altogether communicating, it doesn't feel good. I am being nice, whatever.
One thing I think I should tell you. After BD1, I was a WAW and very abused in every way possible. I reacted by becoming 'screaming banshee'. This is reactive abuse, and I sought help for it, was deeply ashamed of it. Not good.
This reaction was from fear not anger with a tiny FOO issue which I resolved asap. This was a truly horrible part of my life.
However the abuse arises in you, and I get it, I truly do. In order to shift it then you have to own it.
It's a [censored] sandwich that's homemade, but walking to the pain and digging deep for a long time is the only thing that will resolve it. Then after full on atoning, yes that is another [censored] sandwich if your other half is a complete numpty and you don't want to, then you can forgive yourself.
First you own it and don't blame.
That is my experience and why I am giving you 4x4 as you get one good go at this after that it's uphill.
V
It's fine. I get it. You are hurting and it comes out. I endure the same from my stbxw. I don't blame her. I see it too. I had my issues and I certainly own it and never deflected. I just didn't change enough. It's almost as if the little change undermines the larger expectation.
I am sorry for any abuse. But it's certainly a two way street.
While I have forgiven, I still don't like it. Probably never will.
OM and the EA makes it easier. Friends at work and their validation certainly pave a more clear path.
What can I do but live my best life and love her as I always have and probably always will.
She can step on it and talk about my emotional abuse and my controlling needy ways or my validation seeking.
If I didn't love you, I am not sure I would share that side of myself. That is the double edge sword of love and vulnerability.
You can't escape the bad and only have the good. With enough time everything ends I guess.
Sidenote...ran into her old friend. She told me she was not surprised. Apparently shes been telling her friends she hates me for the last 5 years. I was pretty blown away by that.
Basically, I am thinking this is long gone and over.
I am done with women and relationships for awhile. Purely sex for me. At least I am good at that and its not very confusing lol.
I am done with women and relationships for awhile. Purely sex for me. At least I am good at that and its not very confusing lol.
InFocus, this is not a healthy outlook and you need to make sure you continue to work on you to fix this. Are you in IC? I highly suggest you look into it if you are not. A counselor can help you sort through these feelings you are having.
Yeah, you know there is what society and women tell you what is acceptable and healthy than there is the reality.
I am done with the deception and role playing. I prefer direct and honest. How is that not healthy. In fact I get a better response when I am 100 legit and upfront.
Again, my personal experience. You do you Steve. And yes I am seeing a counselor.
Yeah, you know there is what society and women tell you what is acceptable and healthy than there is the reality.
I am done with the deception and role playing. I prefer direct and honest. How is that not healthy. In fact I get a better response when I am 100 legit and upfront.
Again, my personal experience. You do you Steve. And yes I am seeing a counselor.
Ok. Peace.
I am done with women and relationships for awhile. Purely sex for me. At least I am good at that and its not very confusing lol.
So does that mean you are filing for the divorce then?
I am done with women and relationships for awhile. Purely sex for me. At least I am good at that and its not very confusing lol.
I am done with the deception and role playing. I prefer direct and honest.
Then may I suggest that the next woman you want to bed, you not tell her you are done with women and are strictly interested in their body bringing you sexual pleasure. Now IDK, you may find a female who only wants you for the same style of service......but to be on the safe side, maybe you should just use hookers for a while.
I am done with women and relationships for awhile. Purely sex for me. At least I am good at that and its not very confusing lol.
I am done with the deception and role playing. I prefer direct and honest.
Then may I suggest that the next woman you want to bed, you not tell her you are done with women and are strictly interested in their body bringing you sexual pleasure. Now IDK, you may find a female who only wants you for the same style of service......but to be on the safe side, maybe you should just use hookers for a while.
Tinder works, from what I've been told.
I am done with women and relationships for awhile. Purely sex for me. At least I am good at that and its not very confusing lol.
I am done with the deception and role playing. I prefer direct and honest.
Then may I suggest that the next woman you want to bed, you not tell her you are done with women and are strictly interested in their body bringing you sexual pleasure. Now IDK, you may find a female who only wants you for the same style of service......but to be on the safe side, maybe you should just use hookers for a while.
Tinder works, from what I've been told.
Can't see anything wrong with a player lifestyle as long as there is no deception. If the other is of the same mindset and free.
Use condoms though.
V
Hmmm.. no contact 5 days. She asks to talk to me when I'm on the phone with kids. Ok, sure. Digging on when and if I will take kids. Not now, after she contacted my lawyer with ridiculous terms I wont sign to. Desperation in her voice over taking the kids on the weekend, she really wants me to take them. Lies about having to file 250 pages to divorce me. Lies about why she wants my pay stubs. Obviously to figure out potential childcare payments. I asked and she gave vague response that it was for divorce. So much lying, desperation, and misdirection.
My tone was upbeat, helpful, but purely business. I ended it with a non-chalant "talk to you later" which took her by surprise. No more clingy me. I have myself back, at least in that moment.
Met my lawyer. Filing divorce complaint for joint custody on the insistence of my lawyer. We will see how that goes.
I don't think my wife expected me to stand up for myself. No more listening to her bull. She has been lying and deceiving me for months now.
Considering a private investigator..just to know for sure...but part of me just wants to laugh and say who cares.
I still hurt. One day at a time.
Thanks for listening.
Picked up kids and my brother handed her the divorce papers.
I filed on Wednesday.
Not because I wanted divorce, but because I want to see my kids more often.
She was cold. Her face was grim and she looked determined.
We did not even look at eachother. I was very stoic as I grabbed and packed my kids bags.
Now it feels truly done. I am not sure anything could change her heart now.
LRT as much as possible.
Kids are good. They are my light.