I didn't find DB until I had made all the chasing mistakes and what may have been the final straw (I told my W's parents about her affair and the W found out.) She was so furious with me that she said "that did it. We need to get this figured out. We barely said a word to each other for several days. Here birthday was Friday and was packed to leave for the weekend when she stopped looked at me and said she was sorry for all of this(affair, wanting out, etc.) The following day I had my first Tele coaching session. I was instructed to treat her like a house guest and I did my best to do what I thought I should. I cooked and cleaned up told her she looked nice, well on Monday she asked me to meet her at the cell phone store to get our phones on separate plans. I didn't fight I went along with it acted as if I were ok with it. She had also started to go through things and separate hers and mine. Since then we have been talking like we use to but, not really about anything. I start to feel like I am making progress but then start to think that she is playing along to keep it calm. She has gotten to where when she finishes a workout she immediately changes out of her tights into sweats or pj bottoms. Its hard to stay focused and keep going. any works of advice or encouragement would be appreciated.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
What are you ages? How long have you been together and married? Do you have children? Does she work? Who is the OM?
I am 53 and she just turned 50. We have been together for nearly 17 yrs. and married 13 1/2. We have no children and we both work. The OM is (or was since she told me she ended it) a old boyfriend from high school.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
have read the DR and am about finished with DB. I have also had a coaching session and read the 5 love languages and working on the 7 principles for making marriage work as homework from my coach.
along, welcome and sorry brother. Lots of us in similar situations.
My wife turns 50 this month. That seems to be a big big sticking point for her which is why I suspect she is at least in a mild MLC if not a full blown one. While her As have all been EAs (not PAs), I have no doubt she was moving towards one.
My best advice is to start to detach. It is a long, hard process but the only way you have to have any control is over yourself. She will notice your detachment, trust me. But read the links above from Cadet. Start putting the principles into place.
DO NOT PURSUE HER. DO NOT SNOOP. DO NOT TAKE TEMPERATURE CHECKS.
Let her go. Weird I know, but the only chance (and it is only a chance not a guarantee) of getting her back is to let her go.
DO NOT PURSUE HER.
Research what that means. You will slip. Just get back on track.
Hang in there and work the process. She may respond and it will confuse you.
My coach wants me to continue to treat WW like a house guest, which had some success in softening between us, but WW came home this Sunday pissed off at me again. She says we need to figure out if one of us can keep the house and what to do about our horses. I am also pretty sure that she is still involved with the OM even though she says he is out of the picture. I am thinking I should start to detatch before my next coaching session. What does anyone else think?
A,
I think you should detach too, but the problem is it is not like turning on a light switch.
I know you don't want to here this but you have to let her go. The more you try to hold onto her the more she is going to try to get away.
The old high school boy friend probably isn't going to work out. They are just trying to relive their youth.
Work on yourself, exercise, eat healthy, read self help books, hang out with friends and family. Become a man that only a fool would leave.
Take it one day at a time and just try to get a little better everyday.
Good luck!
She just texted me about getting an attorney if we cant work out the house. She is getting Comps from the local realtor after work. She has accelerated things quite a bit. Any suggestions on how to approach this tonight. My gut says be civil and agreeable, but I want to ask why the big hurry, what has changed that you want to move so fast?
Don't help her. Make her do all the work. If i were you id be out with the horses all night. Don't ignore her but don't follow her. Avoid her. Answer her questions directly and succinctly. Don't volunteer any information. Make her put the house up for sale. Don't lift a finger.
I meant out with the horses until bed time.
I was planning to stay away from home until early evening until this text. Now I think she may say I am avoiding this.
NC doesn't mean ignoring her.
Perfectly okay to communicate and handle your business - house, finances, kids, etc. As long as you're not doing R talks, you're fine.
If house issues need to be figured out, participate in it and get it done. Don't do the leg work, and let her do that, but don't avoid what you might have to do to move it forward.
Totally fine to respond to her about the house stuff and scheduling a time to sit down and discuss it like you're doing a business transaction.
Also, read all the links Cadet posted, and then read them again. Understand and implement Sandi's rules. Slow everything down.
Was not a plan to ignore. I planned to start detaching by visiting my parents for dinner then watching some TV returning home around 7:00. Now if I tell her that I will be home later isn't that defeating the purpose of detaching?
Detachment isn't a light switch you can turn on and off. Please read the links Cadet posted and reflect on them. There's so much good information.
Don't need to tell her when you're going to be home. You can say something like this:
"Yes, we need to discuss issues related to the house. I can sit down with you at x time tonight. Does that work for you?"
You don't need to report to her about your coming and goings, but figure out when you're going to do this. see in my text above I didn't mention you being home or being out or whatever. I kept it on topic - meeting to talk about the house. That's all that's relevant. You're booking an appointment to discuss business.
Here is my version of detachment. Paragraph three keeps me motivated every day.
Today I will commit myself to detachment. I will allow myself and those around me the freedom to be as they are. I will not rigidly impose my idea of how things should be. I will not force solutions on problems, thereby creating new problems. I will participate in everything with detached involvement.
Today I will factor in uncertainty as an essential ingredient of my experience. In my willingness to accept uncertainty, solutions will spontaneously emerge out of the problem, out of the confusion, disorder, and chaos. The more uncertain things seem to be, the more secure I will feel, because uncertainty is my path to freedom. Through the wisdom of uncertainty, I will find my security.
I will step into the field of all possibilities and anticipate the excitement that can occur when I remain open to infinity of choices. When I step into the field of all possibilities, I will experience all the fun, adventure, magic, and mystery of life.
So here is how the meeting about the house went down. We need to decide tonight what we are doing with it. She wants to stay and I want to stay. Attorney talk ensued. In between lots of silence and nervous face rubbing. Asked if we needed to take a break. she bit back harsly saying this is going to happen and said that she is done. Agreed to have realtor look over property for probable sale price. She was sure she could afford it. Went to bed with pit in stomach thinking this is really over. then I remembered Believe none of what you hear and less than half of what you see.
this morning before work I asked I we were still meeting friend about boarding horses and she backed off that saying the more I think I probably can't afford to keep the house either. So, now I am really confused. Was thinking it really is over because she wanted me to move out. Now it sounds like I may have a little more time to work the LRT. Am I wrong? She is very strong willed and usually sticks to her decisions.
So, now I am really confused. Was thinking it really is over because she wanted me to move out. Now it sounds like I may have a little more time to work the LRT. Am I wrong? She is very strong willed and usually sticks to her decisions.
A,
The thing is it is never over until you say it's over. You get to decide. Even if you divorce it may not be over. People recon after D all the time.
Take the focus off her and get your affairs in order to see if you can afford to keep the house. Do you really want to keep it or are you just trying to prevent her from having it?
How is your GAL going?
Starting slow spent time with out of town friends over the weekend. Yesterday visited a friend after work and had dinner with relatives. Got home around 7:00 and got on the treadmill before the house meeting. One thing I almost forgot my W has taken off her wedding ring and is keeping it in her purse.
I honestly love it where we are in the country, but in a past relationship I was the nice guy and moved out so she got everything she wanted. This will be a stretch to afford but in time I should have a handle on it.
along, eventually reality will come crashing down on her. How committed to her is the other man? (That is rhetorical.) The majority of OM are in it for one thing: sex. If he is married there is a high likelihood that he will not be willing to leave his family for her. If he is single without any attachments, it is highly likely that he will not want to be tied down by children your age. Most affairs die a slow death.
One of the ways to make it die faster is to not let it bother you. Hard? Yes. But the beauty here is that most of the excitement for most cheaters is the naughtiness of it not being known, or if known that the LBS is upset about it. If you know and you don't care, the romance of the PA slowly dissipates. Further, the OM will start to lose interest usually when he realizes that he is about to have an unattached woman on his hands.
She will shift in the wind many more times before this thing is finally settled. Don't let the "i want this, no I want that" get to you. At this point she isn't sure of what she wants. Stubborn or not.
Steve85, What worries me most is he is an old high shcool boyfriend and they have that history together. The W is pushing really hard to get this stuff decided. I am not trying to drag my feet and maybe I should be saying OK lets do this as part of the TLR technique I'm just not sure.
Well I would take a different tack and not help her with any of it. If she wants to push forward with it all let her do the work. I know others disagree, but she needs to own it if that is her plan.
he is an old high shcool boyfriend and they have that history together.
Along, don't focus on her history with high school boyfriend. High school is only 4 years. You have much more history with her, real life history. Their A will play itself out. Just focus on GAL. Detach, lovingly. You got this.
Does anybody know if any of the tele coaches comment on these threads. I hope that me detaching is the right thing to do since my coach wanted me to treat her like a house guest. Between the house talk and her not wearing her wedding ring I felt like I had to start to detach.
meg24 how are you handling it I see you have kids so he has to have contact with you. We do not have any children and I really worry about no contact when she does move out.
I am finding myself wanting to backslide and make another mistake by asking her to tell me what she is feeling. Tuesday towards the end of the house discussion I said you don't even want to look at me do you. She responded that it has nothing to do with me that it is her and the guilt she feels. I so want to ask her to talk to me about it, but I know I shouldn't right now.
When I got home from being out with friends she asked about the house again and said that if I thought I could afford it to take it. She said she would have to hire someone to do things repairing the house that I have the skills to do myself. Talk about confusing.
A,
I think you should detach too, but the problem is it is not like turning on a light switch.
I know you don't want to here this but you have to let her go. The more you try to hold onto her the more she is going to try to get away.
The old high school boy friend probably isn't going to work out. They are just trying to relive their youth.
Work on yourself, exercise, eat healthy, read self help books, hang out with friends and family. Become a man that only a fool would leave.
Take it one day at a time and just try to get a little better everyday.
Good luck!
That is all the advice succinctly put, I need to follow. I am GALing like crazy and she is getting all jealous- and rather than go into loads of details I respond with a validation response "I understand you are entitled to your own opinion on this, but I have never lied to you or looked at another woman" Her face was a picture- it is as though she is trying to justify her own infidelity.
meg24 how are you handling it I see you have kids so he has to have contact with you. We do not have any children and I really worry about no contact when she does move out.
We have minimal contact right now. If H wants to see or talk to the kids, they all have their own phones, they would just check with me first to make sure nothing else is planned. But H never spent time with any of the kids prior to BD, so I don't expect that will change. The only contact I have with H right now is about time with special needs S21 (cognitively he's about 8 or 9), he's having a difficult time with the whole sitch.
meg24 sorry to hear that. Are you TLRing or using a coach? I know it is relatively recent that H moved out have you talked?
Or following a differnt strategy
Along, here is the link to my thread. You'll see I've been all over the place, just now I think I'm getting my own footing.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2777846#Post2777846I'm not initiating any sort of contact with H, unless absolutely necessary. I'm a ghost on Facebook for the last 2 1/2 weeks, for my own mental health and sanity. It has helped tremendously. I am not using a coach, finances don't allow for that right now. But I am in IC. It's more just for me to get things out right now, more than anything. I may be looking for new IC though, as I think I need to begin the Solution-oriented approach.
I don't know what to make of this comment when discussing the house, that if we can agree to leaving the horse trailer and horses out here she would pay me a boarding fee. Is it a best case scenario for her where she doesn't have to deal with finding someplace for the horses and good old doormat will take care of things, or she is giving me everything she can to get rid of me. It would mean I would see her when she wanted to ride or just get a horse fix, but if the OM comes with I don't know how I would react.
along, that one is up to you, about your boundaries and what you can handle. Personally I'd make it painful for her, not in spiteful way but in a "decisions have consequences" way. If you choose A, B will happen.
If we decide to divorce there will be too much on my plate to also look after horses, so they will need to be boarded elsewhere. Cause and effect.
Don't do it mean, don't do it vengefully, but keep your needs at the forefront and do it calmly, cooly, but firmly.
Well here goes the second bomb. She texted me first thing this morning that she will have the attorney draw up the paperwork for divorce. She has yet to say the D word to me. This after we made the decision on the house and horses. I want to keep working the TLR technique but am very discouraged and feel hopeless this morning. Not sure which way to go, what to do.
along, saying she will do something and actually doing it are two different things.
Believe NONE of what they say, and only 1/2 of what they do!
When you get served you will know she filed. She can talk all she wants. But remember the house? "I think I can afford it to keep it myself!" Then the next morning: "No I can't."
She knows she still controls your emotions. Likely she is texting you that to try to get you to agree to keep boarding the horses.
Stick to your guns. Detach! GAL. Move forward. She is going to do what she is going to do. Don't dwell on it, just live your life.
You are about a month behind me in regard to timing. (My BD was 12/23, MERRY CHRISTMAS!). It gets easier as you go. Yes, I still have bad days but they are getting fewer and further between.
Steve85 at this point I believe she will do it. She may regret it later but right now she believes this is what she has to do. She wants to be with the OM. I have had little success with detaching techniques so far I know I havent been at it long enough, but am beginning to believe that she will not respond.
Can you refresh me on your sitch.
Wow Steve85, you are spot on with my W and here reactions. after I responded to her wanting to know how I want to be served D papers she sends a text OK. Then about 20 min. later she sends a text that says Sorry. She is feeling soo guilty and I want to talk R with her but I know I should not. What I will do is tell her I don't believe that this is not the solution to our problems, however, I love and respect you enough to let you go. It makes me sad that you feel so bad about us, our marriage.
DO not talk about your emotions!
You can let her know you disagree with the decision and the part about loving and respecting her enough to let her go is good. DO NOT ADD THE "it makes me sad".
Instead say, I just want you to be happy no matter what that means.
What would you say to rephrasing the last part to It is sad that you feel so bad about our relationship I just want you to be happy.
No. Do not talk about emotions. Your action will speak louder than your words. Plus sad is not the image you want to give her. I would leave it at "I just want you to be happy."
This having paperwork drawn up has really gotten to me this afternoon. It seems like this is moving so fast and there is nothing I can do about it. I am losing faith in the process.
Trying to read major chapters again. Need a good kick in the pants to make me remember that it isn't over until I decide it is over. Just figuring out ways to influence once she moves out.
Other than waiting on the final decree the only thing we will have to connect us is the animals and common friends. Which at this point she has ignored.
Got my first positive reaction to the TLR detaching. My W decided to leave for the weekend and I replied that we wouldn't talk until Sunday. Which she replied what did you want to talk about. To which I replied I don't know , we still need to communicate. She replied Yes, Yet, you left Wendsday without a word. and came home late afew times with no word. I told her I was trying to take care of myself and do what I meeded to prepare for life without you. her response was sorry for that
me leaving might that. I am sorry for what this has done to you.
so I did get to her as far as where are you going or going home.
Guys I think I screwed up with my text reply I gave her too much information didn't I . I probably just blew my chances of another response by being less forthcoming about what I'm doing and where I'm going. Anyone have an opinion.
You can imagine BD like a slow motion bomb explotion. And you are in that room. You are in the air, you can´t control what is happening and you are being lifted from earth surface...
Just wait for the calm after the explosion. Check yourself, stand up and look around. Time is your partner now, don´t rush. The only thing you can control is yourself. Then start the DB walk.
I told her I was trying to take care of myself and do what I needed to prepare for life without you. her response was sorry for that me leaving might that.
Come on man. Getting her to feel sorry for you is not a positive reaction. It makes you look weak! And yes, you screwed up in your reply. Get up dust yourself off and get back at it. You just started this journey and it is going to be along (get it) long time before you see the results your are looking for.
I promise you that if you put in the hard work you will come out of this better then you have ever been in your life!
Need some help getting back on track TLR and detaching. I know I messed up in responding to W about communication as I was only into the first week of detachment. Any ideas how to get back on track?
Yes just start again. I'll hit 3 weeks wednesday with no R discussions. and it seems to be paying dividends.
Mine said she would have attorney get the paperwork going. My W is stubborn and even her mother says she has dug her heels in. have a coaching call today.
Okay, so you messed up one communication. That's not going to destroy everything. It isn't catastrophic. Right now you're in the space where you're trying to analyze every little thing and every communication. stop that! Get some control and stabilize. That's the first real thing you need to work on. Get your focus off her and on you!
Read up on Sandi's rules again. Re-read them.
You just keep moving forward and implement NC/dark, as it works in your sitch, and keep the focus on you! Emphasizing that again because it's so important.
In your communications, before you send anything, ask yourself whether this sounds needy and desperate, or are you projecting strength without being a jerk? Find that balance.
Post what you want to communicate on this board and we'll help you out. Don't need to respond to anything right away unless it's an emergency. So, slow things down and breathe. This is a long journey.
Thanks everyone. I know I tend to panic and it is because for whatever reason I love her and don't want to loose her. I know thou that if I keep acting the way I am I will definetely loose her.
Along,
Just to reassure you. My w is very stubborn too. She filed in March 2017. We finalized the agreement in January. And then she wouldn’t sign it. You have no idea what the future holds. You can only control you. One day at a time.
W went to look at apartment after work. Came home with lease with a agreement date of Mar. 29. Now, she had not signed it as of this morning but I can see her plan because, as a teacher she has the end of March off as spring break which gives her time to move. I am struggling with making my goals such that I can see results.
I am struggling with making my goals such that I can see results.
Personally Meaningful Goal + Deadline + Plan + Consistent Action = Fulfillment.
Make the goal about the process not the outcome. Fall in love with the process and outcome will happen.
For example, don't make your goal that you want to lose 20 pounds in 4 months. Make your goal that you want to make healthy choices and exercise. The weight loss will happen. Loving the process helps with motivation and keep things on track. Focusing on outcomes can be demotivating at times because you can't always control the outcome.
Should I ask W if she has rented apartment or let her tell me when she is ready? I am still working on detaching so I think I know the answer, but its hard when she goes from not communicating what she is doing to all of a sudden texting what she is doing or where she is going. She hasn't changed her stance on the D as far as I can tell.
Should I ask W if she has rented apartment or let her tell me when she is ready? I am still working on detaching so I think I know the answer, but its hard when she goes from not communicating what she is doing to all of a sudden texting what she is doing or where she is going. She hasn't changed her stance on the D as far as I can tell.
along, remember this is a marathon not a sprint, and it is a marathon on a roller-coaster track. UPs AND DOWNs.
So no don't ask. And don't over analyze her behavior. Easier said than done and struggle daily with these things myself.
W went to look at apartment after work. Came home with lease with a agreement date of Mar. 29. Now, she had not signed it as of this morning but I can see her plan because, as a teacher she has the end of March off as spring break which gives her time to move. I am struggling with making my goals such that I can see results.
Along, just hang in there and try to take a long term view of things. If you're the captain of a cruise ship and you are at full steam across the ocean and decide you want to turn around, well it doesn't happen quickly. It takes a whole lot of time and space. That's kind of the situation you're in, you want to stop and spin in place and reverse course but it just doesn't work that way. Separation may happen, divorce may happen, a lot of other things can and will happen. None of that means there's not a new R with your W somewhere down the road, there could very well be. But you've got to be very patient and let this stuff unfold in the meantime.
She hasn't changed her stance on the D as far as I can tell.
A,
It is probably a safe assumption that if she is out looking for apartments she hasn't changed her mind. If you need advance notice for the plans of her departure then ask her about it.
Are you eating healthy and exercising? Are you meeting up with friends? Do you have any hobbies?
I visit my parents and still meet up with the couple we would get together with most Friday nights. I am doing my best to eat right and broke the habit of snacking later in the evening. We have both been using the treadmill, but I have not been able to do much more than run due to bicep surgery. I am trying to get some things done around the house, but other hobbies and activities are limited due to the arm and until recently my recovery from back surgery. I had gained at least 10 pounds (mostly around my waist) due to recovery from back. I have lost about 20 pounds since the BD.
Beginning to rewrite my apology letter with the LRT paragraph. Is there any example of how this letter should be laid out. My coach explained but with the limited time on the phone I cant get all the information to lay this letter out.
Did your coach advise you to actually send it to her or is this just for you? Often we advise to write this stuff out and then burn it, or file it away someplace secure. If you do plan on giving it to her, understand these things:
1. She will more than likely never acknowledge receiving it.
2. It will have no impact on her attitude about the M.
So you've got to have zero expectations. But you will have expectations anyway. We all think a long, heartfelt letter might be just the thing to put things "back to normal" but it never, ever does.
If you're going to send it to her then feel free to post it here for critique first. I never sent a letter, instead I did a face-to-face apology as I felt that was more genuine. It didn't change anything but I did feel it was necessary because she did feel I had wronged her in some ways. And I am glad I did it.
Agree about not sending the letter. I too apologized face to face to own up to my own failings. I’m glad I did it. It didn’t change anythjng.
I didn't send the letter, I did however give her the letter last night since she told me she was going to the attorney tomorrow after work. I felt I needed to give it to her and yes I knew it wouldn't change anything.
How do I continue to DB and or LRT when she moves out and the D is in its final stage or is finalized? We don't have children unless you count the horses which are staying with me. she is going to pay for boarding and she is saying she wants to be friends. I honestly don't know that I can do that.
Along, do you still hope to reconcile with your wife in the future? If so, I personally would agree to be friends to the extent that you can. Friends may just mean asking "how are you?" every so often and sending a simple birthday card. Those small signs of good will wouldn't hurt in my opinion. It's not fair to you though to be reduced to friendship status when you were committed to you wife and love her as a wife. It's not fair at all, but nothing is fair about what's happening right now. Your situation is so new. There's still a high chance her relationship with the OM won't work out and she'll be sorry. I think the DR book says affairs last an average of six months. Perhaps you need to be patient for a few more months to see how things progress.
NicoleR, A R is what I am hoping for. I know it will be some time before that could happen, however, she has told me that she won't keep me away from her family and we will still interact due to the horses and trailer. I have expressed that this arraingment will only last as long as its not too hard on me physically. Hope I can handle riding with her on the trails.
Hi Along, I saw your request to give my thoughts on your sitch. So far, and without further background information, it sounds as if you have a wayward W on your hands. Let me explain, since you have a DB coach. MWD does not separate the wayward W from the WAW or MLC. The term, wayward wife, is not used in her books or by her coaches.....as far as I know. Therefore, you will probably here some things on the board that you won't hear from the DB coach.
If you will read my threads on the subject of the mindset of WW's, it might save time and save me from repeating or forgetting something. The link to the first one is on Cadet's welcome page.
I think when the H has a WW, he needs to treat her the way he would act the way he interacts with a checkout clerk in the local store. Think about how you interact with the clerk as she is adding up your purchases. If you have questions, or if I need to explain...... let me know.
You get confused whenever she changes her mind......and all I know to tell you is to stay focused on what I am about to say. She will not be consistent. She doesn't really know what she wants, except one thing......... to be free from the MR. Actually, she can become confused even about that feeling.......if the H gets smart and follow the advice here. The more you resist giving her that freedom she thinks she wants.... the harder & nastier she'll fight you. You are her number one enemy. She blames you for everything negative in her life. She has held resentments against you from the past. She disrespects you as a man.....and especially as her H. She has reached the point of outward rebellion. In other words, she is out of control, and she will get worse.
Your WW has a fantasy in her head. She does not hear anything you say to her. Do not tell her how she feels, b/c women hate for any man to tell her how she feels! Do not tell her how
you feel, or what
you want. Don't tell her your thoughts. Don't try to find out how she feels. Trust me, it's not good! She doesn't care about your feelings or your pain, enough to stop what she's doing. The sooner you accept that she is only interested in herself......the better off you'll be. Let me make this perfectly clear to you. Selfishness is her motivation for everything she does. It doesn't matter how small or large, if she doesn't benefit someway......she's not interested. Never forget it.
She does not want to be your W, but wants whatever benefits the M may provide (like family activities, insurance coverage, etc). She doesn't want the responsibilities that go with the MR. If she can get a better deal another way......she will. Until then, she'll take advantage and "eat cake" every chance she gets. Your job is not to rescue her, protect her, or provide for her. She doesn't want to be your W, so don't treat her like one. The only thing that will start to make her fantasy crumble is reality. You can provide some reality, and life does the rest. Let her get a taste of life without you as her H. Remove your emotional support, your concern, your personal interest in her, and the control over you that she's had all these years. Stop listening to how she says things "will be done", and start thinking with your own head.
Get a lawyer ASAP. Follow your lawyer's advice, instead of your WW's wishes. This is no match for a man with nice guy behavior. I'm not saying you can't be a good person. I am saying a WW will not respect a H who has the Nice Guy Syndrome. If you have not read about it, google the information today. There is one thing all women hate in a man.......and that is passivity. There is one thing, and one thing only that a WW respects in a man......and that is strength. You show strength and self confidence by not allowing her to control you. By making your own decisions and following your standards, principles, and personal belief system. Don't compromise your integrity to be a woman who does not respect you.
All cheaters lie. You cannot believe anything she says. You cannot trust her to do the right thing and follow her conscious. Currently, her emotions are dictating to her, and that will be all that she follows, until reality crashes her fantasy. You cannot reason with her. Waywards are not logical. Don't expect her to think or behave normally.
Don't repeat to her something you've heard on the board. It will not impress her. The only exception is if we suggest how to word a response. You will be tempted to do some action to get a response from her.....but don't do it. It never works the way the H wants......plus, he can actually make matters worse. Unlike the WW, he must not act upon emotions. He must learn lots of information on this board, and act from that information. Be sure you understand a technique, method, or whatever, before you take action. Don't read something today and think you understand well enough to make some big move on it tonight. Not in the beginning, b/c you are cramming information at fast speed. It will take a while to grasp a few things. For example.....boundary setting. Don't even mention boundaries until you fully understand how it works. I have seen too many H's makes things harder for themselves b/c they opened their mouth before they really had the full concept of how it works.
I am going to say something else that may sound completely nuts to you. Stop trying to keep your W in a M she doesn't want. Stop allowing fear to control your heart. The MR you had has died. It's over. The girl you M is gone. She doesn't want you. If you start to use your head, instead of crying, shaking with fear, trying to do whatever she says, and hoping she'll decide to give you another chance........you can come through this a winner. I didn't mean for that sound to sound harsh. I am trying to cram a lot into one post, and beat some sense into an emotionally hurting H who has been betrayed by the love of his life. You will get stronger. You are going to be fine. But not without becoming your own best friend and helping yourself by doing what is best for YOU. . Does that make sense? You can't save anything until you save yourself first.
One way she has confused you, is by her throwing all this business deciding stuff in your face. What to do about the house and the horses, etc. Here is what you tell her. "I will not make any decisions until I have had time to think on every consideration". (Or something similar to that statement). You don't want to sound as if you are avoiding it. You don't want to sound as of you are being passive. Say it with confidence, determination, and strength. You are a smart person and will not be pushed into doing something an emotional, crazy, over-bearing wayward W wants. Learn these words, "I will have to think about it"......and/or....."I haven't decided yet".....and/or....."I'll have to get back to you about it". Stop allowing her to push you around!
Beginning to rewrite my apology letter with the LRT paragraph. Is there any example of how this letter should be laid out. My coach explained but with the limited time on the phone I cant get all the information to lay this letter out.
Please don't write an apology letter. I have NEVER seen or heard of a
wayward returning to her H b/c he apologized! She will see it as more weakness. If she was running away b/c you had beat her.......then I would agree with apologizing. But something tells me you were not abusive. I have yet to see a wayward W come from an abusive MR. Most of them come from nice-guy H's, who they push around and get them to apologize for something they (H) don't even know what they did to make her angry. Once again, you are hoping to appease her, by writing this apology letter. It won't work, and she could even use it against you.
The problem is not you, it's her. However, you are the only person you can control and/or change. Don't try to impress her. Don't try to get her to like you more. Just improve who and what you are and become the best you can be.......but, .not to win her back. I'll explain more later.
For now, stop what you are doing. You need to regroup and approach this ordeal in a whole different attitude.
Sandi2, Thanks for the information and advice. My WW met with her attorney yesterday so I know D papers are coming and she plans on moving out over Easter break from school although she has yet to tell me. We have lots of stuff to sort through before then. I have been making her do all the work with reguards to the D.
Unfortunately I gave her the apology letter already and of course there was no response or acknowledgment of the letter. I did include in the letter a sentence or 2 that states that I get it she has left the MR and is moving on.
I have been alot better with my emotions the last few days. I have been sure to not get emotional and cry in front of her. I have been bad though about dinner and laundry by cooking and doing both our clothes, she has been doing the same. I have noticed that when she is home in the evening she is drinking almost every night, not a lot just a beer or 2 which I assume is because she feels uncomfortable around me and guilty.
I remember reading your thoughts on WW's and their A's what worries me is that my WW is with someone she has a history with.
I just realized that through all my posts I never mentioned that this is my WW's second marriage. Her family told me that many of the things she is doing are the same things her first husband did when they got D. He cheated on her. This may change the thinking how to deal with her.
We have lots of stuff to sort through before then. I have been making her do all the work with reguards to the D.
Well, she isn't letting grass grow under her feet!
My adult S went through a similar sitch. He was totally blindsided by her A. While he was dazed and confused, she had D papers drawn up. All he had to do was sign them. He gave her everything she wanted, and he walked away with his vehicle and a few personal belongings. So, my advice is to not trust your WW to be fair.
I remember reading your thoughts on WW's and their A's what worries me is that my WW is with someone she has a history with.
This may sound cold, but the reality is, this ^^^^^^^doesn't matter. I think you are agreeing to the D, in hopes that her A will fizzle and she'll want you back. And, that may happen, IDK. Ever since social media hit, there have been countless stories of M people contacting an old high school sweetheart, and an A ensued. They will probably learn very quickly they are not the same kids they were during high school years. But whatever.........you can't live your life watching her love life and holding your breath that she'll leave OM. The OM is not the real problem. The problem is your WW's mindset. In fact, if they ended their A today, she would probably go through with the D anyway. Affairs end, and the WW will often find the next A, and the next. Sometimes, if they are very lucky, something happens that blows the fantasy out of the water, and her brain begins to clear enough for her to realize this life is not what she needs.
You love her. You worry about her drinking. You worry that she will stay with her old sweetheart. You can't shut those feelings off overnight. You really have to make a consistent effort to press forward in focusing on you. It might help you emotionally/mentally to talk with an IC or your spiritual leader. If you are not sleeping or can't eat, see your doctor. It is no disgrace to get help during the most difficult time of your life. Most of the men on the board report how they go to the gym and workout every day, and it really helps dealings with stress, etc.
At the moment, none of what I'm saying may be interesting, due to your state of mind. You will survive this! There is life beyond D! You must take good care of yourself. Having your family's emotional support and love is good. Being around friends who encourage you is important.
I encourage you to set real goals for yourself. These goals do not include or depend upon your W In any form. They are about you, and for the improvement of your life and happiness. Currently, you may think that's impossible without your W, but those are your emotions in high gear. Feel the pain, mourn the loss, but don't give up on your life.
Don't misunderstand and see me as not being pro-marriage. I have been M many years to the same man. I have had painful D all around me, and have seen the destruction it causes. I have also seen lives go on and become very happy again. Mostly, it depends upon how the individual processes it, and turns lose of the past. You aren't ready for that yet, but I'm just saying it's part of the healing.
I don't want to give you false hope. I will tell you that I was a wayward W. I was in an online A, with plans to leave my H. Long story short, I was busted, and my fantasy began to crumble as reality hit. I never physically left my home. I found my way to this board and have been here ever since. My M was saved. It was hard, b/c my heart was still wayward. After I ended my A and stopped contacting OM, it took approximately two years for me to work through my resentments and disrespectful feelings for my H. I was getting tons of information, and I think that is a critical factor. So, the WW can work her way back. She'll need information about why she has these feelings and acted out in rebellion. She will probably need IC/MC to guide her to healing, and in complete reconciliation.
I tell you this, b/c a few WW's reconcile with their LBH's. It is rare. Some cases are more damaging than others. The ones I have seen reconcile successfully, are when the H emotionally lets her go, goes no contact, GAL like crazy, stops focusing on her, and builds a life that does not include her.
[quote]My adult S went through a similar sitch. He was totally blindsided by her A. While he was dazed and confused, she had D papers drawn up. All he had to do was sign them. He gave her everything she wanted, and he walked away with his vehicle and a few personal belongings. So, my advice is to not trust your WW to be fair.[quote]
She is giving me virtually everything. The one thing she wants in the agreement is I get the house, buy her out, but she can keep the trailer and horse on the property and pay me a boarding fee. This means I will see her when she wants to ride or needs as she calls it "a horse fix". My dilemma is I don't have a trailer or truck to transport my horse without her. I have thought about telling her that she needs to find some other location for them.
I so want to tell her I know she is still involved with the OM even though she claims it is over. She has said "she ended it", "he dumped me", and lastly "he is out of the picture". I know its all about her right now.
Sandi2 you may have said earlier, but how did your H react such that you wanted to make things work?
Along -
Have you read DR? You talk a lot about the LRT, but Im wondering if you are following the entire process or just looking for that silver bullet. What are you doing as far as who ALONG is?
Also, what does 'detachment' mean to you? You talk about the effects of your detachment on your W, but that doesnt make a lot of sense to me. What types of things are you doing which would indicate your detachment?
Amoafwl,I have waffled and stumble doing the whole thing. I have read DR alot of it multiple times. I did so many of the things you shouldn't according to DR before I found DB. I struggle with staying on track. I have been very reactive, but not outwardly so she hasn't seen it. I have been working on GAL visiting friends and family doing things with friends. The last few days I have evened out emotionally so I can think clearer.
Detachment has been hard. I know I started out in a good way but backtracked with a response that threw the whole thing off in my head. I haven't been doing the things I need to that puts me in a better place no matter the outcome. Sometimes I feel like giving up. i have let her dictate how I react and I know that is self defeating.
I've been trying to do 180's but so much of our relationship has been sharing things like groceries, cooking, laundry it gets hard to think of ways to do 180's. I know I haven't answered your question. Detachment to me is releasing the emotional reactivity and be myself again. I need to stop doing things for her do my laundry seperate cook sinner seperate and make her see what it will be like when I'm no longer around, however she has been here before with her first husband. She was alone for about a year when we met.
Great stuff from Sandi, her last two posts would make a great sticky as they are the summation of most of what we talk about here in bits and pieces across multiple threads. The only thing I'll add is when a woman gets to that point, she may actually find your actions repulsive. She doesn't WANT your help AT ALL. Early on I snooped on my XW's phone and one of the most shocking things I discovered was a convo she had with her best friend that her worst nightmare was thinking that she might get terminally ill and that I would be the one taking care of her. The woman I spent 25 years with! Me taking care of her was HER WORST NIGHTMARE. It wasn't until maybe a year after our divorce that she started asking me for help again, and she has ever since. So I guess she figured out I wasn't such a horror story after all, LOL!
Anyway my point is what Sandi told you is how your W feels right NOW. Not 2 years ago, not 2 years from now, just right now. It's temporary. You just need to understand that ALL she wants from you is time and space for now. That means her moving out, and it may even mean D. But that doesn't mean it's the end of things unless YOU decide it is.
After going to the Infidelity/extramarital Affairs/Jealousy topic and reading Michelle's post about some of the advice being posted I have committed the biggest no no and have very likely ruined any chance of ever Recon. with my WW. As I mentioned in an earlier post that I told my WW's parents about the A and I am now connecting what Michelle said below with when my WW decided she was done. I feel like I should take responsibility for this without blaming myself for the whole thing. If she had not strayed I wouldn't have been where I was emotionally. Here again is mister nice guy trying to take over. I know I can't change what I did and she will probably not want to get together again even in the future.
"It has come to my attention that some people on this message board are strongly suggesting advice that runs counter to my Divorce Busting philosophy and practice- the notion of exposing a spouse's affair to family members. While this plan may be helpful to one couple, it would completely backfire in other marriages. I have worked with many couples where the betrayed spouse revealed all the information to friends and family with extremely detrimental outcomes. First, when the unfaithful spouse discovered this had happened, he or she decided to file for divorce and it became a final decision. Secondly, there are those situations where the couple began to heal from the infidelity and get their marriage back on track, but the family members undermined the couples' efforts and even "disowned" the betrayed spouse. This made life-long commitments after infidelity a very challenging outcome because few people like giving up their family and friends. So, while I do believe that betrayed spouses need support from loved ones when dealing with such a distressing situation, it is ESSENTIAL that the information about the affair be shared CAREFULLY and with full recognition about the possible risks. I always recommend that, if information is shared, the person with whom it is shared is marriage-friendly, even in the face of infidelity. Nonetheless, it's still important to recognize potential risks. "
I have read DR alot of it multiple times.
So what are you doing as far as goals? How are your behaviors changing? You talk about about LRT, which is an action. But how does that relate to your overall growth? The idea isnt that LRT will save your marriage...its more that LRT will give you the space you need to heal and blossom into the best ALONG you can be. Your W is not ever going to come back to have the same relationship with you again - so how are you going to learn and be different this time?
I have been working on GAL visiting friends and family doing things with friends. The last few days I have evened out emotionally so I can think clearer.
How about GAL that involves NEW stuff? a new hobby, meeting new people, etc.
Detachment has been hard. I know I started out in a good way but backtracked with a response that threw the whole thing off in my head. I haven't been doing the things I need to that puts me in a better place no matter the outcome. Sometimes I feel like giving up. i have let her dictate how I react and I know that is self defeating. [quote=along]
Detachment isnt a thing you can just 'do'. Its a feeling or an emotion which comes from doing lots of little actions and habits over time. So what steps are you making towards achieving detachment? NC is a start. GAL is also a start.
[quote=along]I've been trying to do 180's but so much of our relationship has been sharing things like groceries, cooking, laundry it gets hard to think of ways to do 180's.
So is your love language very focused on quality time? What bout all of the other ways in which you interact?
I need to stop doing things for her do my laundry seperate cook sinner seperate and make her see what it will be like when I'm no longer around
Maybe it will be more that YOU can see what its like to do those things when SHEs not around. Im guessing that will help with detachment as well......
I have committed the biggest no no and have very likely ruined any chance of ever Recon. with my WW.
It is what it is. You say that she said "Im done" right after, but I wouldnt expect that it was just 'because of this'. I think it's her making you out to be the bad guy in her mind....kind of like a confirmation bias. Trust me - if it wasnt this, it would have been something else you did or didnt do that would have been 'the final straw'. So dont beat yourself up too much. All you can control is what you do from this day forward.
I am going to try to respond to several of the comments and questions from several posts.
Amoafwl, My top 2 Love language's are Quality Time and Physical Touch. I have tried to stay with TLR but I find myself backing off or not following thru because I worry about making mistakes. I have always been way harder on myself than I should be so it will take time to break that cycle.
I know that doing things without her are just as much about me as it is her. Like I said before this is her second marriage so she has been on her own before we met.
Sandi2, You say you think I am going along with the divorce in hopes of the A ending and she wants to Recon. My state is a no-fault state. Are you suggesting that I contest the divorce? Is that to give me more time to work on myself and make her see how I have changed?
"The ones I have seen reconcile successfully, are when the H emotionally lets her go, goes no contact, GAL like crazy, stops focusing on her, and builds a life that does not include her."
Sandi2 were these Recon's after S or D ?
Part of my sitch is I have had surgery which precludes me from working out other than cardio and few other exercises. I have been doing what I can in our basement.
I have tried to stay with TLR but I find myself backing off or not following thru because I worry about making mistakes.
A couple of things.
1) To me, the last resort technique is just that - a LAST....RESORT. It is akin to you falling off the face of her earth. No contact. At all. You cant do that for a day or two at a time. It just doesnt come across as anything but avoidant. From what I can tell, you are still living together, so...I wouldnt think you can really do the LRT at this time. I would just focus on minimizing contact during the day and following Sandi's rules for this time.
2) We all make mistakes. No SINGLE moment or event is going to make or break your chances at reconciling. Just learn from your mistakes so you dont repeat them.
3) The most important thing is consistency. You dont want to be LRT one day and then chatty the next and then distant again and so on. If you cant be consistent with this, then how could she possibly believe that any change you make isnt about just trying to "win her back"?
TIME + CONSISTENT CHANGE
That should be your focus right there.
Like I said before this is her second marriage so she has been on her own before we met.
So? Werent you not married until into your 30s...?
Are you suggesting that I contest the divorce? Is that to give me more time to work on myself and make her see how I have changed?
I dont think you can contest a divorce in a no-fault state. Doesnt mean you need to help move it along. In my opinion, let her control the pace. You just do what you need to do to protect yourself financially.
And stop worrying about DIVORCE as a construct. In reality, shes already got her eyes on someone else anyway. What is there about THIS marriage that is still going? The way I see it, your marriage is already dead. If you recon, it will be a "new" marriage between Along2.0 and Along'sW2.0. Take this opportunity to set your goals for Along2.0. What does he look like? How does he act? What values are important to him? Who are his friends? What are his hobbies? How does he deal with conflict? etc etc etc etc.
were these Recon's after S or D ?
Ill answer for her, but "yes".
Part of my sitch is I have had surgery which precludes me from working out other than cardio and few other exercises. I have been doing what I can in our basement.
GAL doesnt mean working out. Working out is a great way to release energy and to build confidence. But there are plenty of other ways to do both. Find what works for you.
2) We all make mistakes. No SINGLE moment or event is going to make or break your chances at reconciling. Just learn from your mistakes so you dont repeat them.
I am learning. Sometimes I'm a little slow but I do get it.
I dont think you can contest a divorce in a no-fault state. Doesnt mean you need to help move it along. In my opinion, let her control the pace. You just do what you need to do to protect yourself financially.
She is controling the pace and it is fast met with lawyer Monday, rented apartment to begin in April.
GAL doesnt mean working out. Working out is a great way to release energy and to build confidence. But there are plenty of other ways to do both. Find what works for you.
Working out has been a big part of who I am or was before my job change which made it hard to do. Working out is part of how my W and I met and got together. We shored so much in common.
Sandi2 you may have said earlier, but how did your H react such that you wanted to make things work?
As I have tried to explain to other LBH's who would ask what my H did.........he was not the one who came to the board, learning how to deal with a WW. I was the one coming and getting the information. You are the one in your sitch who is receiving the mentoring. If staying in my M had depended on my H's actions......instead of mine, I don't know if it would have been saved. But since I was getting the DB mentoring, instead of him, then it was on me.....so to speak. It is rare to see a WW show up on the board, but it does happen.
FWIW, my H wanted to save our M. That's not to say he told me
that while I was having an A. He never begged me to stay or pursued me in that way. In the very beginning, before I knew that he knew about the A, he said ILY......to see if I would say it back to him, and I wouldn't. Shortly afterwards, he confronted me about the A.
BTW, the information I share with others is not based on my experience alone. I have learned so much more about WW's than I ever personally experienced myself.
WW's have a commonality........and it's their mindset. That part, I understand. It's not to say I have all the answers. It is easier to tell a H what
not to do, and what does not work......rather than what will work in his particular sitch.
Here is a copy of a shorter version of DB detaching. I hope it will help.
Healthy Detachment...(Posted by DBer Peanut originally)
I. Detachment
Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.
Attached, we take personally ALL that is said, not said, done and not done.
When our ego gets wounded, we are more inclined to do/say things that undermine our goals.
When we are Detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.
Met with love, we are in a position to diffuse the situation, and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.
On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.
Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not indifference. It is not the mind saying, ‘I am not getting what I want so I must pull back.’
It is the natural acceptance that we alone are responsible for how we act. We cannot control another person, but we can control how we respond to them.
We are responsible for our own actions (no one else is).
We are responsible for our own happiness. (No one else is)
PART II Detachment (found around here)
Detachment is the:
* Ability to allow S the freedom to be him/herself.
* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix S from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.
* Giving S "the space" to be him/herself.
* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with S.
* Accepting that I cannot change or control S and it was never my "duty/job" to do so.
* Establishing of emotional boundaries between me and S, so that both of us might be able to develop our own sense of autonomy and independence.
* Process by which I am free to feel my own feelings when I see S falter and fail and not to feel responsible for his/her failure, faltering or learning.
* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring, without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing, demanind or controlling.
* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective. (=Balance is a piece of detachment).
* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to hang on beyond a reasonable and rational point.
* Ability to let people I love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to not bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.
* Ability to allow S to be who he/she "really is" rather than who I "want him/her to be."
IF & WHEN THESE ^^^ FACTORS ARE ADDRESSED, -
We could have a great friendship, or a great marriage. And those are treasures.
Sandi2, Thank you so much for this description of what Detaching is. With the D papers coming any day I needed some help. I am beginning to let go and accept that she is going to do what she is going to do. As hard as it is I cannot fix or wake her out of the fog of the A. It is time to think about having my ^^^^ in order so that I can go forward and be better equipped for the future. I still love her and want to reconcile but until and or if she is ready to work at it I have to go on with my life. It is also time to set my boundaries with respect to her.
Sorry, I missed these questions from yesterday's post.
Sandi2, You say you think I am going along with the divorce in hopes of the A ending and she wants to Recon.
I should have explained in more detail. What I am really seeing is a man with NGS. I see you doing whatever your WW tells you to do, b/c you want to please her, keep her from being angry at you........and maybe she won't leave you. From the way I read your thread, she is steamrolling this D without giving you time to think about what you need to do about the house, horses, etc. I may be wrong, but I got the impression she told you, "This is how it's going to be", and you thought you had to follow her orders. To be clear, I am not suggesting you contest the D. I am trying to caution you about falling back on old nice-guy behavior, thinking it will win back your WW. The LBH can jump through rings of fire to do whatever his WW wants, and it will not win her heart for him. I am telling you to do what is best for you......period, instead of worrying about how it will make her feel toward you. She is divorcing you! It is past time for you to stand up for yourself and take care of YOU.
"The ones I have seen reconcile successfully, are when the H emotionally lets her go, goes no contact, GAL like crazy, stops focusing on her, and builds a life that does not include her."
Sandi2 were these Recon's after S or D ?
Well, I haven't kept a running list, but off the top of my head......yes, there were some who were physically separated, and I had friends IRL who got back together after they D. I don't encourage in-house S, b/c I have not seen any successful results, but I have known several couples IRL to go back together and have a strong MR after living separately for a year or more. There have been couples from the board, too. After nearly 11 years of reading threads, I'm not good at remembering the user names anymore. But I can remember the successful stories........when they stick around long enough to update us. Many have been deleted. After so many years.....I guess the board has to purge, IDK.
Listen, don't make yourself sick about telling her parents the truth. My H told my mother, too. Yes, I was furious! Do you know why the WW gets so mad? B/c her plans are to demonize her H to her parents, so they will think she is justified to leave him. Parents may not agree or like what their wayward child does.....but when all is said and done, they will stick by their own children. So, you did not ruin their relationship. Your W may have caused it problems, but all you did was tell them the truth.
Do not apologize to your WW for telling her parents. This is part of your nice-guy syndrome that wants to take all the blame......hoping it will just fix things so your W won't be angry at you, and stay in the M. In order for her to truly turn around, she has to be honest with herself, with her family, and with her H. Otherwise, she'll continue to deceive those who love her.
I think you are beating up yourself. It is good to look deep inside and evaluate your faults, and set goals to improve yourself. However, it is not good to be the scape goat for a WW. And believe me.....she'll make you one, if you allow it. By that, I mean don't accept that role for yourself. Both spouses are responsible to some degree when a MR fails. However, you are not responsible for her affair.
[quote]
What I am really seeing is a man with NGS. I see you doing whatever your WW tells you to do, b/c you want to please her, keep her from being angry at you........she is steamrolling this D without giving you time to think about what you need to do about the house, horses, etc. I may be wrong, but I got the impression she told you, "This is how it's going to be"
That is pretty much how it went. When I suggested we needed to get a professional opinion on house value she said that "this is happening!" We got a realtor to evaluate. I told her I need to think about it and would give her an answer the next evening.
I know I struggle with NGS and when I stand up to be a man I get loud and aggressive which is one of my goals that I have to take care of that aggression.
the H emotionally lets her go, goes no contact, GAL like crazy, stops focusing on her, and builds a life that does not include her."
I know it will take a lot of restraint and will power not to contact her. We live in a small town which makes GAL meeting new people a little difficult.
Listen, don't make yourself sick about telling her parents the truth. My H told my mother, too. Yes, I was furious! Do you know why the WW gets so mad? B/c her plans are to demonize her H to her parents, so they will think she is justified to leave him.
I nearly made my self sick after reading Michelle's entry in the fidelity/..../thread. Especially the results of telling parents and family.
I think you are beating up yourself. It is good to look deep inside and evaluate your faults, and set goals to improve yourself. However, it is not good to be the scape goat for a WW. And believe me.....she'll make you one, if you allow it. By that, I mean don't accept that role for yourself. Both spouses are responsible to some degree when a MR fails. However, you are not responsible for her affair.
That is what I do. It stems from being bullied in school which resulted in me having a huge need to be liked. So rejection reinforces my lack of self worth that surfaces when things go bad. I now see that that was part of what happened in our marriage. I went through a reoganization at work and didn't know for nearly a year wether or not I would have a job. This put a strain on our relationship. At the same time her job was stressing her due to administration issues.
Sandi2, I don't know how you got so wise but thank God you are here and dedicated to helping those of us in these situations.
Sorry if I missed it -- do you have a lawyer? If not, you should engage one. The lawyer can tell you what your rights are, and I think that will help you feel calmer and less under siege. The lawyer can also engage with hers, and the two of you can talk less about it. Or, if she's pressing on you, you can tell her to talk to your lawyer and step back and away from the line of fire.
More generally, she's gotten used to bullying you around and having you go legs in the air with her getting exactly what she wants, when she wants it. This makes her lose respect for you. Respect and admiration being the bedrock of attraction, well, there you go (and there it went). Change that dynamic if you want to change your relationship. Even if it doesn't save your marriage, it will save you.
sandi2,
I need some help. Discovered that my WW is writing a letter to say she is sorry. How do I react to it? I know that the divorce papers are on the way. I know that this doesn't change anything,and she is still going to divorce me and be with the OM, but I also know how hard it will be for me to not respond in the right way. should I even acknowledge it?
I know I targeted my last post to sandi2, but if anyone else has an opinion I would love to hear it. I know my WW is moving out next week. I have a feeling that the letter will be left for me after the movers finish.
sandi2,
I need some help. Discovered that my WW is writing a letter to say she is sorry. How do I react to it? I know that the divorce papers are on the way. I know that this doesn't change anything,and she is still going to divorce me and be with the OM, but I also know how hard it will be for me to not respond in the right way. should I even acknowledge it?
Guilt or sympathy arent at all the same as regret.
There is no'right way' to respond. To me, Id say something like you appreciate her thoughts and leave it at that. It isnt an opening to pour your heart out to her.
Amoafwl, Its more that I would react with an outburst of you are the one that gave up on us, you are the one that gave us no chance t work on our relationship, you choose to go outside the marriage and have an affair which you are still in.
I really need to get out of the NGS I have been living that most likely played a part is us being where we are divorcing.
Amoafwl, Its more that I would react with an outburst of you are the one that gave up on us, you are the one that gave us no chance t work on our relationship, you choose to go outside the marriage and have an affair which you are still in.
I really need to get out of the NGS I have been living that most likely played a part is us being where we are divorcing.
But like I said....she is sorry that youre hurting. She may feel bad about that.
But that doesnt mean she feels bad about what she is doing or her choices.
Theres a big difference there.
Amoafwl, I get that I'm sorry is a pity, or guilt thing. Regret or apology is a different dog. If she were to say I regret this or that, or apologize, then things might be different. I also know I have to get myself where I am living for me and not thinking about getting my W back. Pretty sure that ship has sailed and the best that I can hope for is to be a friend, however I'm not sure I can do that.
I nearly made my self sick after reading Michelle's entry in the fidelity/..../thread. Especially the results of telling parents and family.
Here's what happened. Several years ago, there were some people on the board who really pushed exposing the cheater, in order to save the M. Apparently, some posters felt a bit bullied if they did not agree with those tactics. MWD received complaints, the "exposure" members were promptly removed from the board, and she wrote that "warning". It has been there ever since.
sandi2,
I need some help. Discovered that my WW is writing a letter to say she is sorry. How do I react to it? I know that the divorce papers are on the way. I know that this doesn't change anything,and she is still going to divorce me and be with the OM, but I also know how hard it will be for me to not respond in the right way. should I even acknowledge it?
Along,
One thing you have to realize is that she is no longer the woman you fell in love with. The marriage you had has died a death and will never be back. Not saying you couldnt have a better marriage because you can, but it has to be wanted by both. One question you have to ask yourself is do you really want her back. Obviously the marriage falling apart was both of your faults, but her being with another man is totally on her. Do you think you could trust her again? If you had started dating her 2 weeks ago and she did this how would you react differently? Right now your past is skewed... she mostly sees the bad things in the marriage and you mostly see the good things in the marriage.
She has given you the freedom to be the person you want to be. Through this process you will not be the person you used to be. Come to the realization that this new "you" might not even be liked by your ex, and you might not like your ex after the changes.
Become that person, and welcome the chance to be loved truly for the person you are, whether that be with your ex, or a future spouse. I am not saying to give up on your ex, what i am saying is to move on; and when you have moved on, your ex might see you for the person you are, and will want to start a new relationship with you.
Its more that I would react with an outburst of you are the one that gave up on us, you are the one that gave us no chance t work on our relationship, you choose to go outside the marriage and have an affair which you are still in.
No, that's not the time to tell her any of that sort of thing. She would see it as preachy, or some other unattractive way. If she hands you the letter, go read it privately. Don't try to respond. If she should ask if you read it, just acknowledge that you did.
FWIW, when I was behaving inappropriately online with OM, I had not set down to plan how I could hurt my H in the worst way. At the same time, I knew that if he found out, it would hurt him very much.......and he would be absolutely shocked at my behavior.
Did I know he'd be devastated? Yes! Did it stop me from engaging in the A? No! My solution was to keep it hidden.
. I had never hidden anything from my H, and there I was......betraying, lying, deceiving, and concealing.
The first time I gave a half-a$$ apology, I told him I didn't have an A to hurt
him. (As if that was going to help his feelings). I also told him I hoped we could always be friends.
When I gave him my heart-felt, humble apology, I was so torn up that I had a lot of trouble getting my words out. I had to do a lot of work on my heart/mind between those two apologies.
If she actually gives you a written apology, don't misinterpret her action to be something it's not. It may be more of an explanation of why she's doing what she's doing. It is not an invitation for you to express your feelings, or whatever.
I've learned a lot of H's worry about what type of response he should have towards the possibility of his WW doing the right thing. When in reality, it not likely she'll do the right thing while she's engaged in an A.
How are you doing today? What did you do to GAL over the weekend?
I hope you'll post soon.
Hi sandi2, Well. lets see on Friday I went out to the local brewery by myself after work. then after taking care of the animals at home went over to my sisters best friends house and we sat around and talked about what's going on with my sitch. WW was at her parents. WW was back home when I got there so I went to the bedroom I have been sleeping in and read. Saturday slep in which caused the WW to feed the animals. Got up took shower and started laundry. Sat on couch with WW then went to read some more. WW went into town for groceries and came back with packing supplies. She then started packing china and nicknacks. I kept watching basketball and hockey and didn't offer to help.
Recently started texting with a friend who had recently gotten over divorce. We went back and forth Sunday. Sunday I finished the laundry, but had to take clothes to laundrymat to dry because dryer was not heating again. while in town I stopped by my parents and had lunch and helped with a couple of things for them. When I returned home the WW had started packing things from the kitchen.
It all was starting to sink in that she is really moving out and the divorce is going to happen. Was a emotional time, but I didn't let her see that it was affecting me. Again she has been acting like there is nothing wrong and asking if I want something to eat or bringing dinner home. that part is hard also it is so hard to get my head around. I'm sure she is doing some of this to keep me calm and not fight over things until she can get out of the house.
I am also reevaluating the house sitch and thinking that we should just sell it. the financial strain on me would be too great.
I had been doing much better at letting go and moving on but the weekend really hit home. I asked her when she was moving because she hadn't said anything about that and she finally told me that this Thursday would be the day. Easter weekend what great timing.
Still struggling with letting go. My head knows she is gone, but my heart is very persistent and strong in wanting to hold on. I have let my heart lead me for so long that I'm not sure how to get where I lead my heart where I want to be.
A big part of me wants to believe that somewhere down the road she will want to get together again, not with the same guy but with who I will be after this journey. Its time for me to get back to what I enjoyed doing when we first got together and I was a confident strong man not the defeated and weak husband I became. I need to work on being more outspoken when it comes to relationship problems or I am doomed to suffer the same fate again.
Still struggling with letting go. My head knows she is gone, but my heart is very persistent and strong in wanting to hold on. I have let my heart lead me for so long that I'm not sure how to get where I lead my heart where I want to be.
It doesn't happen as fast as we want it to. Even though everyone said it was a marathon I wanted it to be a sprint, LOL! But no matter how fast I ran it still ended up being a marathon.
A big part of me wants to believe that somewhere down the road she will want to get together again, not with the same guy but with who I will be after this journey.
Then believe it! What's wrong with hope? Hope is what drives us, helps us heal, helps us become better people, gives us motivation. Hope for recon is what kept me going for almost 2 years. I realized I had finally dropped the rope when it dawned on me that somewhere along the line my hopes were no longer W-focused.
Here we go. Got home tonight and the W was continuing to pack. I didn't help even let her go get dinner when she went for supplies. All seemed fine until just as she was going to bed. she asked me what I wanted payed to board her horse. Told her 75/mo. she was fine with that. then she asked if I was going to pay her 40 or 41 thousand for buying her out of the home. when I said I was thinking lower she wanted me to make a decision. She then went to bed. A couple of minutes late she comes back out and wants to know why I was thinking less. We discussed briefly and I told her where I was she got mad and claimed she was owed at least the 30 thousand she put into our first house. I have a feeling that the OM told her she better find out what I'm up to, like I was trying to screw her out of what is hers. I wanted to throw what she always said about if you want out of the marriage you take what you came with, but I didn't. I held firm that I was thinking a lower number and had been working on getting the refinance going. So much for keeping it civil and agreeable. I hope it doesn't get too out of hand, but I am through being pushed around.
Well tomorrow is the big day she is moving out. She had her mother and sister over to help pack. Her oldest sister can't understand why it has to be like this and really didn't help except to clean and that caused my W to cry to her mother. She is emotionally a wreck right now and I have resisted showing her any sympathy.
I began checking on refinancing the house, but most will not do anything until the divorce is final. Just another thing for the W to get upset about. she wants a value for the buyout to put in the agreement. Trying to handle this like a business deal, calm cool no emotion. I will still be dealing with her for awhile. Am trying to stay NC and let her contact me.
link to previous thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2783176#Post2783176