Hi everyone, I've recently joined the forum and have been reading like crazy. Picked up copies of DB and DR this weekend, and reading and soaking up as fast as I can.
Our abbreviated background... I'm 44, H is also 44, Married to H 22 years, friends/dating 7 years before that; 4 kids- (special needs) s21, s19, s 16, d13. After 1st son born I, like many others that I'm reading about, shifted and put all my focus on being a mom, which just continued with each new child. H would mention every year or 2 that I don't communicate with him anymore, or show affection or initiate sex (telling me his needs). I would try for a while, but stop. Maybe because I didn't get anything in return, or maybe I was depressed (history of depression from youth).
Anyway, the last 2 years have been much better. The kids are older, can pretty much get themselves whereever they need to be. We have been having regular date nights, weekends away, etc. Then out of the blue, BD 12/20/17 (one day before family arrives for the holiday), but he says we don't need to talk about it until after my birthday (late January). As soon as family left I couldn't wait. He says he is tired of pulling his hair, trying everything, out to save our marriage (the only thing he ever actually did was tell me that he needed more affection, attention, he never actually DID anything. He kept saying he always wondered what he was doing wrong. I have, over the last several years, told him he has done nothing wrong, something is wrong in me. He said he was done trying, he didn't want to live the rest of his life this way, he wanted to get out while he still time.
Needless to say I've done all the wrong things, until last week, begging, pursuing, etc. I have started counseling, and started telling him pretty much everything I'm feeling. I was also trying to show more affection. He started working later, started sleeping outside in his hunting trailer. He spends pretty much every minute he is home on his phone, facebook, who knows what else. He's never home on the weekends. We did tell all the kids, except the oldest (special needs).
I know the issued aren't all mine. He is not an easy person to communicte with (my boys say this too). He is a bit of a narcissist, and he has admitted to being manipulative to get what he wants. But he won't go to counseling, does not want to work on the marriage.
He's been telling me to work on myself, we'll see what happens later. I took me almost a month to listen. Last week I finally stopped texting him. If I need to say something I wait till he's home later. I'm still nice to him, invite him to do whatever the rest of us are doing. But he doesn't usually take me up on it. I am working on finding my interests again, he said last night he is proud of me for that, but he just doesn't think his feelings will ever change. I keep getting the ILYINILWY. Oh, and he has an addictive personality (drugs in the past, different activities, pretty much anything he does he gets addicted to, and he has adult ADD). He does say he's confused, and I can tell he's depressed.
We've gotten to this point once before, and close to this point a few times, all of which happed right around the same time as an OW starts to pay attention to him. I'm afraid to ask him this time if there is someone else. He has had a PA, not sure if he's ever had EA. I'm afraid to ask if there's someone else.
Thanks for reading this far. I know it's all jumbled. Any advice from anyone is always welcom.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Thank you for the information Cadet.
I will also add the H has announced that he is moving out next month. Finances don't allow for him to rent an apartment (he makes more money that I do, and will still be paying for the bills that my salary won't cover).
The only thing that doesn't freak me out about him physically moving out is the fact he will be renting a room from a couple that we both know, that I like. They will hopefully be a good influence, help him figure things out, unless, of course, he doesn't tell them the whole picture, and just paints me as a crazy person.
Thanks in advance for listening.
H has me so confused. For weeks he was telling me focus on myself. He finally said straight out to me that some of the things I was doing (which also happened to be some of the things he's been asking for for years- compliments, telling him what I love about him- basically Words of Affirmation) was pushing him away. Something clicked last week, maybe reading this forum, so I started detaching. Which then led H to think that I'm done with the marriage, which pushes him away even more. Now I'm trying to find the happy medium between the 2. No matter what I'm doing, it just feels like the wrong thing.
I'm just lost.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
H's behavior lately is all over the place, except for loving. No love coming from him. One minute he's neutral and is carrying on conversations, the next minute he's scowling and it seems like he's looking for reasons for what he's doing. The other night he told me that eventually I'll hate him and want to give up.
Is that what he wants, so he doesn't have to be the one that "walks away"?
I just keep telling him that I'm not going anywhere, that I'm working on myself and I hope he works on himself.
Any insight? If my ramblings aren't clear, seem all jumbled, my apologies. My thoughts are all jumbled.
Yes he is following the script.
I would stop reassuring him with words as that is pressure.
How are you doing with the homework?
I just started reading DR, so far so good. Been reading through the other links provided, I'm currently struggling with detachment. I started detaching last week, but slipped quickly. Perhaps because we're still under the same roof?
But as of today I have recommitted to detachment. Before last week, I know the begging, pleading, reasoning, etc., wasn't working, but in my mind it was helping me because at least he could see that I still care, right? WRONG. He pretty much told me it was pushing him away. So I started pulling back, then he said I must not care anymore.
This morning the fight was about money, he opened his own checking account at another bank and wanted me to pull out a large chunk from our joint account, to fix his motorcycle and daily driver (which I had previously told him to have fixed). I wasn't expecting the request to pull it out, so I freaked out. H then came back with "I'm trying to control him, watch where he's spending money, etc", when in reality I just didn't want that kind of "finality". He said he's trying to relearn independence, since he gave up all financial control to me long ago. I've tried many times over the years to get him involved in finances, but he didn't want to know anything. Throughout this whole thing he's always said he will take care of me and the kids, make sure I have enough money to cover mortgage and bills, etc, so that's not an issue. Just the separation of finances freaks me out.
So after that fight, I decided I'm pulling back. I sent him TM that I have to focus on myself, he needs to focus on him, but also stated that I do not want the situation we're in.
The biggest thing that [censored] is the kids. Our s16 is the most affected, he and H but heads the most. S16 tells me that the communication issue with H and I isn't just me, that H yells and goes to extremes whenever someone tells him something he doesn't want to hear. In fact I told H that I would like him to take s16 to get new boots and jeans (badly needed), he said fine. S16 said he doesn't even want to deal with him. Whenever H is actually home, all the kids scatter to their rooms. But I guess that's not so different. I've always been the one that's more involved in their daily lives, taking interest in what's going on with them. H rarely asks them anything, unless it's to do something for him.
I just keep getting the ILYBINILWY from him. How does this happen? One day we're fine, loving, normal married, the next week, BAM, he says he has not more emotional feelings for me (but he'll love me till his dying breath).
What is going on with him?
The last few days have been up and down. Still separated under the same roof, H sleeps out in his hunting trailer. All last week H has been coming home extremely late (after 9:30 pm), when he's off work usually between 4 and 6. I don't ask where he's been, he did say at one point early last week that he was helping someone work on a project (power tools and wood were involved).
He told me Friday morning before work that he was going to leave his vehicle in town at a friend's house (we live about 40 minutes north of town in the mountains), his friend would drive him home that night, then Saturday morning he was going to ride his motorcycle (followed behind by same friend) down to a mechanic about 3 hours away. Friday night he didn't come home until long after I was asleep, and he was up extremely early Saturday morning (before I was awake) to leave on his motorcycle. No contact at all, which I expected.
Saturday I had plans to take the kids to the movies, part of my new GAL. We never go to the movies, with so many kids it gets expensive. But I had some movie passes and gift cards that I'd been holding on to for a long time, H never wanted to see any of the movies the rest of us did (I did invite H earlier in the week to go with us, before he said he was dropping his Harley of for repairs). Anyway, nice time with the kids. I enjoyed spending time with 3 of them. Sent TM to H to let me know when he arrived at destination safely. 6 hours later he did, also said he would be back sometime in the morning to take s16 shopping.
Saturday evening uneventful. I was coming down sick, starting to hit me hard, so I just went to bed early.
Sunday rolls around. S16 didn't tell me that he sent H TM that he didn't want to go shopping until next weekend. H and I had appointment at the gun range at 2pm for me to practice (the only time he will spend alone with me, he likes shooting and watching me learn to shoot). I was pretty sick by this point, was going to tell H when he came home to go to the range without me. He never came home, didn't hear from him until 1:15 (remember, I didn't know s16 already rescheduled their shopping trip). Anyway, I told H I was sick and not up to shooting, said I was to going to tell him when he got home that morning. Then s16 tells me their trip is rescheduled, which is why H hadn't come home yet. H was mad that I hadn't told him earlier. So that was just one big communication mess.
I also told all the kids earlier in the week that I wanted weekly family dinners on Sunday evenings, and make sure they're home. Also told our "adopted" D19 to be there, she lives 45 minutes away, don't get to see her much. All kids said fine, father-in-law said good (he lives with us, well, in a mobile at the back of our property). Told H all kids will be there, would be nice for him to join us. He did join us, but an hour late. Don't know why I'm surprised, he's never on time. Anyway, when he did finally show for dinner, he saw everyone waiting, including D19 (she also brought her new girlfriend to meet us). He said to me that if he had known we had company for dinner he would have made it a point to be on time. WHAT?? You'll only be on time for company and not just because it's the right thing? I reminded him that I did tell him ALL the kids would be here for dinner.
Anyway, after dinner I went to lay down, was feeling even sicker at this point. Everything pretty uneventful until yesterday. I stayed home from work sick. And in a moment of weakness sent H TM during the day that I miss him, and I know we can rebuild our R. He was actually off work early yesterday, home by 4:30. I was in bed, so didn't matter. But he was just angry over random things. S19 bought an old vehicle that he was going to turn into a offroad toy (back story, there are a few vehicles in back property, one is S19's first truck that he's selling, one is parts vehicle, then we have H's off road toy, and wrecked parts vehicle for that, and also s16 project classic vehicle). H was mad that starting to look like junk lot out back. I told him that all of you guys have projects back there, why is one person's project more annoying than his? He said it just proves that it's no longer his house, it's mine and the kids', and he doesn't care anyway because he's moving out on the 1st. I said if you didn't care you wouldn't be so angry about it. I asked why he is so angry all the time, he just said because he's an angry guy.
I can see that he is depressed, he's angry, and he's pushing everyone away. I just don't get it.
Did all of this really start because I don't (didn't) communicate my emotions enough with him, and show him enough affection/attention? He's taking it out on everyone.
Over the last few weeks, as I've been going to IC, reading DR, and various other books and websites, I've started thinking about things.
I don't think that I did the emotional and affectionate turnaround when our first child was born that he thinks I did. Sure, I did stop expressing a lot, but maybe part of what he felt (feels) is that he wasn't getting all the attention/affection anymore (it was going to the new baby, and subsequently the other children). Therefore I shut everything off to him?
So, still having trouble detaching. Gave H a gift this morning before he left for work, a new travel mug that I bought a few weeks ago that he's been wanting. Bad, I know.
He then says that I don't understand where he's at. I do, he wants nothing to do with me as a wife. He said that's not it, but after 20 years of misery, he is going to date, to see if there's someone out there that will treat him the way he wants. He said maybe we'll get back together, who knows. But he has to see.
Do all MLCer's think in these absolutes? 20 years of misery? I was just waiting for him to say something about dating. And in the same sentence he says "ILY, I love you with my last breath until I die."
I'm crushed.
Hi Meg,
So sorry for what you're going through. I can understand why you're completely confused by what H says and does. The truly amazing thing that may be hard to believe is despite how different everyone is, and how different everyone's lives are, when people go wayward from a relationship, what they say and what they do is almost exactly the same.
The nice thing about this predictable similarity is that the way you should respond to it is also the same, with few exceptions regardless of the details of your situation.
So what's going on with H?
First of all, this is not "all your fault", and if you assume the responsibility for it, you're making your situation worse by being too hard on yourself. When relationships break down, it's because of both people, the only difference is who decides they can't take it anymore first.
Relationships tend to be erode into a cycle of unmet needs -- because H wasn't meeting your needs, you weren't motivated to keep meeting his without getting anything back. Because his needs weren't being met, he wasn't motivated to meet your needs. It's a self-reinforcing cycle that spins you apart.
During this cycle resentment builds -- you each resented each other for faults real and imagined, and for the fact that your needs were not being met. Because you live together, there's a huge motivation to keep the peace, so the temptation is to pave over the resentment and hope it will get better in the future.
Eventually someone's resentment builds so much that they can't take it anymore, and a switch flips within them that they need to escape. That's the mode H is in now.
When he decides he needs to escape, he's going to feel guilty about that -- he's going to feel like a bad person. Eventually, he's not going to want to feel guilty anymore, and he's going to begin convincing himself that he is not responsible for his decision to leave. If he's not responsible, the only other person in the relationship is you, so *you* must be responsible. He'll then look back through history and examine all your current actions and selectively pick out evidence that reinforces that you are at fault. That's why they'll say "everything was always bad" and use absolute language.
The only way they feel they can get relief from this guilt and resentment is to get away from you.
If you respond by telling them that you will not let them go, that you will not give up on the relationship, that you're committed to making things better, that you love them, etc. etc. You are keeping the cage door closed
You are directly telling him he can't have what he wants because you're going to keep hanging onto his leg.
When you give him gifts, text him, initiate relationship talks, tell him you love him, all you're doing is denying him what he wants and making him resent you more and more. You're digging the hole deeper and deeper. By pursuing him, you're making him want to run.
So what can you do about it? How are you supposed to act?
Ironically, the shortest path back together is for you to head in the other direction immediately. You need to give him *more* space than he is asking for.
You need to stop actively resisting him.
Until you give him space, he won't be able to drain his resentment. He won't be able to think about anything but getting away, and things will continue to get worse.
Think back to when you were dating -- what would he be attracted to? A woman who was constantly pursuing him, or a woman who was happy, confident, a bit mysterious, and that he had to *work* to please?
In order to pull this off, you need to follow the DB prescription :
(1) 180: Whatever you were doing that was perpetually annoying him, do the opposite. The only exception to this is that you cannot pursue him, but if he felt you were not affectionate, then be more affectionate with your kids and your friends, but you cannot be more affectionate with him. If you were messy, be neat. If you were late, be on time, etc.
2) Act as if: Act as if you are happy and confident! He doesn't want to be with you? Fine! He's the one that's missing out, because YOU are going to rock this life!
3) GAL: Go out and get a life. Make plans, socialize with friends, get a babysitter if you need to but get out of the house and do things. Don't tell him what you're doing or who you're with.
He thinks you've given up on the relationship? GOOD! Now he's free to do whatever he thinks he needs to do without you chasing him -- and -- you've established that you're not just going to sit on the shelf waiting for him to come back. He's going to go out and live his own life? Guess what, so are you, and if he decides he wants to come back you may not want to take him. He's going to have to work to come back. He's going to have to woo you all over again.
Then lead a life that anyone would want to be a part of -- rock it. Own your life and how you spend your time. Be busy, be happy. The nice thing about that plan is that even if he doesn't come back you won't miss him, but this scenario is the most likely to make him want to return by FAR.
You can do this.
Acc
Thank you for the pep talk Accuray. The part I am struggling with the mostis detaching. I'm guessing that it's so difficult for me (I do well for 2 or 3 days, then fall back to the pursuit) is the fact that he still is at home. As much as I don't want H to move out on the 1st, I also can't wait so that it is not "in my face" every day. When I didn't see him for 3 days this past weekend, I actually did quite well.
What you describe of him and guilt, it's dead on. Even he said in the beginning that he felt guilty for doing this to his family. Now it seems he can't get away from us fast enough.
It has been almost 2 months since BD. My question is how long does the grieving last? I know that I need to GAL, do 180's, detach. But picking myself up from the grief I'm finding is incredibly hard.
Hi Meg, welcome.
It has been almost 2 months since BD. My question is how long does the grieving last? I know that I need to GAL, do 180's, detach. But picking myself up from the grief I'm finding is incredibly hard.
Grieving is a process that tapers slowly. At first it hits like a ton of bricks, but then it comes in waves, and over time the waves hit less often. My BD was in April of last year, and I still occasionally get hit with it, though it can be a week or two for me.
I know the pain is immense and you want it to end. It will get better, just be patient with yourself.
Do all MLCer's think in these absolutes? 20 years of misery?
Meg...... from what I have read on this site and from my personal sitch this seems to be the case. My W has completely re written our entire 25 years together. Told me that she probably never loved me??? WTF?? My IC said this is what she needs to tell herself to justify her decision to be wayward. Remember Sandy's rules... believe nothing of what you hear!
The part I am struggling with the mostis detaching. I'm guessing that it's so difficult for me (I do well for 2 or 3 days, then fall back to the pursuit) is the fact that he still is at home. As much as I don't want H to move out on the 1st, I also can't wait so that it is not "in my face" every day. When I didn't see him for 3 days this past weekend, I actually did quite well.
Yes, my W and I lived under the same roof for 9 months after BD and moved out on Xmas eve. The detaching was very difficult with her there, I felt trapped in my own house and it wasn't good for my kids. Since she has been out detaching became so much easier along with GAL. It is still very hard to deal with and you will have your ups and downs but it does get better, I promise! Stay strong and keep busy.
Little step forward for me, I think. Last night H came home at somewhat normal time. He apologized for being a d#*@ in the morning, but I took him off guard (with the gift). I said ok.
Few minutes later he said, real nice, that we can go to the gun range Saturday for target practice (we missed our time last Sunday becuase I was sick). Normally I would jump on it, especially since Saturdays are now "his" days. I told him no, S21 has bowling league Saturday. He was kind of put off, could tell by his body language. I said next weekend is free though, if he is. I didn't offer this Sunday to go, as I have made another baby step and made plans with a friend.
I think I will reserve range time for myself next weekend, whether he goes or not. I don't need him to be with me anymore during practice.
Baby steps, right?
I didn't offer this Sunday to go, as I have made another baby step and made plans with a friend.
I think I will reserve range time for myself next weekend, whether he goes or not. I don't need him to be with me anymore during practice.
Baby steps, right?
I think this is fantastic! Good on you... He is out living his life without you... You need to live your life, and live it to the hilt! Let this experience make you a better you--for YOU, not for him...
He has the nerve to tell you he is going to start dating, but then again offers crumbs that perhaps some day you two will get back together... He does not mean that, the part about getting back together some day... You need to have the attitude, "forget that noise! If you start dating, there definitely will not be any chance of getting back together."
Now perhaps you don't say that to him, but live that in your head... You deserve better...
I am curious. How did you respond to his declaration about dating? Perhaps he already is dating???
Artista....
H prefaced his comment about dating with "maybe you don't really understand where I'm at.." After the comment I replied "believe me, I know where you're at..."
I have been wondering, since BD, if there was someone else. In the past when he has made comments about me needing to give more attention and affection (I don't think I lack in that area as much as he thinks, but then again, maybe I do, or maybe he just doesn't like sharing my attention with all the kids). Anyway, in the past he has had a PA, and an EA, both situations were similar, but he never said he was done trying. For a few months now he has been increasingly buried in his phone, at very inappropriate times.
I really can't tell if he is dating already, he's been working late a lot, but comes home like he just got off work (he works heavy construction, so he's dirty). I just don't know. He's been making friends with single guys at work, which is unusual for him. So maybe he wants their life.
Anymore... yes I cry, a lot. But I am just so emotionally drained. For my mental health, and to help the kids through, detaching is becoming easier.
I love him dearly, forever, and I want to have a life with him. My IC asked me today what I would do/say if he told me right now that he wants to be with me. First, I would say it's going to be a long road, you've hurt me more than you can imagine, more than I would wish on the most evil person on earth. Other than that, I don't know.
I think I will reserve range time for myself next weekend, whether he goes or not. I don't need him to be with me anymore during practice.
Good! This question comes up a lot here- "should I ask my WAS out on a date" and generally the answer is no because it's pursuit, but in some cases it's OK to -invite- them to do something with you AS LONG AS YOU GO WHETHER THEY DO OR NOT. So make plans to go, and don't ask him to go but maybe say "I made plans to go to the range at X time on X day, you're welcome to come along if you wish" and then leave the room, don't wait for an answer. If he doesn't go then fine, you go and enjoy yourself. Why? Because YOU DON'T CARE IF HE GOES. I know it's easier said than done, but that's got to be your attitude and as time goes on that attitude will get easier and easier.
To build upon what Accuray posted to you, the idea you've got to portray to a WAS is that maybe YOU are done with THEM instead of the other way around. So YOU pursue your own life and leave them to the mess they've made. You go out, have fun, hang out with old friends, make new friends. You want to know what really wakes a WAS up, especially a WAH? He comes home to find you dressed up and smelling amazing and walking out the door. I GUARANTEE you he will want to know where you are going, and your response is "out with some friends". It will drive him nuts.
Nothing is going to bring him back in a day or week or month, but if you start living your own life he'll get worried he may lose you. And suddenly you no longer look like the pathetic, sad, broken W he's more than happy to ditch, he sees an attractive, independent, strong woman that maybe doesn't need him after all. And THAT may attract him back.
I have been wondering, since BD, if there was someone else.
Chances are very good there is. PA (physical), EA (emotional) or even IA (imaginary) is pretty much always a factor.
I love him dearly, forever, and I want to have a life with him.
And that may very well happen. But it will happen on his timeline not yours. And unfortunately his timeline is much, much longer than you want. Be patient and settle in, this really is a marathon!
My story is very similar to your though we have no children together. His second marriage and my first each with children of our own.
My BD was more subtle and slow but certainly reached a head in December. I had already been working and making changes and there was improvement. I saw the spark in his eye and he returned to hand holding and really asked to take it slow and it would take away.
But, I lack patience. I went overboard with my corrective behavior and he said he felt smothered. I called too much. I texted too much. I just wanted him to know that I heard his needs and I was ready to be the wife I was before again. All this he frankly said pushed him away.
Now he just wants out. He wants to be alone. He isn't happy or even likes himself anymore and states clearly that if he can't love himself he can't love me.
I know he feels trapped.
Everything I had read up to this point states not to separate and its better work on things if he is still in the home. He knows I do not want to separate.
I see my husband's struggles and his words are very close to yours though I'm certain he is not pursing a PA and most likely not a EA either. He just wants to be alone.
It breaks my heart in many different ways. I love my husband and to see him with his emotionless face - I feel his pain.
The last couple of days detaching have been going ok. Interactions with H have been cordial, no animosity. He came in the house this morning (he sleeps in his hunting trailer), pleasant talk about stuff going on with kids.
As we were standing in the kitchen, he hesitated and then asked what he should do if he was in the mood for sex. I know what you're all thinking, but I would rather him come to me for that than go elsewhere. I am able compartmentalize it right now.
Afterwards, he said something about going to do work Monday on the studio apartment he will be renting from a friend, I asked if he had the holiday off work. He then asked if I had plans since I have it off work, I said I was going to lunch with a friend (this is part of GAL for me, I pretty much never fo anything like that). H asked what friend, I told him who. He hen asked how to use washing machine (it's been about 20 years since he's done laundry himself), I was surprised, but showed him. I then left with s21 and d13 for the day, H was getting ready to take s17 on outing for said son's birthday.
Fast forward to this evening (H actually didn't go anywhere today except with s17). After dinner H went to watch TV in our bedroom, I joined, we just watched movie. Near end of movie he gathered his laundry and was heading out to his trailer, I asked if he was out for the evening, he said yes he might as well.
It almost feels as if he wanted me to do something while we were watching the movie, like he's wanting to see what I do differently towards him. He's told me where he's at mentally, but it feels like he's testing me. But I just watched the movie. He wants his space, I'm giving it to him. He can't have it both ways.
Have I made any sense to anyone? Any insight?
Detaching still going ok. Had to talk myself out of a relapse today though. Here's the last 2 days (my last post was Saturday night)....
Sunday started out ok. H left before I even got up. I went to churh services with a friend (haven't been in years, and I guess I picked the wrong Sunday to go back as they had a very STALE guest speaker). After church I went on my brisk 3 mile walk (GAL activity for me). Kids were all going to be home for family dinner again. I told H on Saturday that everyone would be home, would be nice for him to join us. He said he would be working on his apartment, so probably not.
Sunday night I invited him to sleep in the house again (I have a physical weakness for him, my body just won't listen to my brain). Monday morning we were talking as he was getting ready to go work on his apartment again (we both had holiday off). He asked what time I had to meet my "friend" for lunch (at this point, I knew it bothered him that I had plans). I told what time, he asked if it was friend from work. I said no, it so and so. He said oh, he thought if was new friend. I told him I don't have any friends he doesn't know.
Anyway, as I was finishing up lunch, s17 calls me said s19 (who had left early that morning- his day off too) texted him that he got his truck stuck WAYYYYY up in the mountians, he hiked down to cell service (he broke rule #1, never go by yourself). So I raced home, picked up s17, switched to father-in-law's 4 wheel drive (storming up by Yosemite). Drove for quite a ways up the mountain, saw footprints, no s19. We concluded he got picked up. Turned around and started heading back down another direction that what we went up, so we could get cell service and call s19. Good thing we took different direction, we ended up running into a friend (very highly unlikely, as these are BACK ROADS, in a storm) who also had s19 with him. They were headed up to get truck unstuck. S17 switched to their truck to help. That was 4:30pm.
I went home, H came home about 8pm, boys still not back, no word from them. I told H I was going to call sister-in-law to get a hold of wife of person boys with, she didn't have number. Then decided to call Sheriff Search and Rescue, it's storming, they're up at about 8000 feet, no provisions, and calling only gets straight to voicemail. Called Sheriff, gave them every piece of info I could, down to the roads I had been on, and when I last saw them. They said they would get started. Few minutes after I got off the phone, just a hunch, I tried calling S19 again, finally rang he answered. Said they couldn't get his truck unstuck, but friend's truck got stuck that's what took so long, they were coming back down just got into cell range. Called Sheriff back, called off search and rescue.
As soon as I got off that call I broke down. I was in an emotional tailspin. I went to H for deep hug, then told him I can't take anymore stress. He said, "Meg, just breathe, they're ok." That one went way over his head.
H slept in the house again, but just sleep, too cold out right now to sleep in hunting trailer. H got up first this morning, my alarm is set later than normal since kids are out of school this week. My body is still tense from yesterday. My poor s19, beating himself up right now for going to the high country alone. He said no more snow play for him, he'll stick to mud.
This morning I was all set to go home and start begging H again to reconsider. But I have talked myself out of it. Just have to keep going, one day at a time.
He wants his space, I'm giving it to him. He can't have it both ways.
in the words of my favorite character in the movie Tombstone, Doc Holliday as played by Val Kilmer, "I beg to diffa, Sir."
he is having it both ways in many, many ways... you cannot have it both ways... and what i mean by that is, either you are letting him have it both ways or you are not... and the truth is, you are... i just don't want you to fool yourself into believing you are giving him his space... i don't want you to fool yourself into believing you are detaching... please believe me when i say i am not telling you this to hurt you or deflate you... i just want you to see that you are not quite there yet... that's all...
i fully understand your breaking down after hearing back from your boys... i have two boys, and we live in Santa Cruz... they often go to the mountains, and there have been times when they have been out of touch for too long, and my husband and i do everything we can to figure out where the heck they are... we've called PD, sheriff, friends, friends of friends, etc... we have even filed a missing person's report for one of our sons--twice! you have been holding things together, somehow... because you are resilient! and this incident also shows you are resourceful...
i am glad you didn't cave and ask your H to stay... the more you are able to fight that urge... to overcome that urge, the easier it will get... stay that course, girlie... okay?
mis dos centavos, for now--
--artista
Artista, I hear you. I am totally not doing well with detaching. I like to think I am, but I'm not. The only thing I seem to be doing ok with is not INITIATING R talks. H kind of initatiated one this morning.
H called me while I was getting ready for work, asked if I had a minute to talk. He said he had a question for me, and to answer truthfully (as if I do anything else, since I have nothing to lose), and my answer would determine how he acts/treats me going forward. He asked why his friends were calling him and asking why I am sending them friend requests on Facebook, since I have never cared to before. I told him that I sent 2 friend requests to people a few weeks ago, that came up as "people you might know". He said it feels like I'm checking up on him. I told him first of all, I am staying off Facebook for a while, for my own mental health (I even deleted it from my phone), and the requests were sent because I know those people too. I said I can't check up on you, it's too much for me. He then apologized.
Then H sent me some texts on my way to work, one was a video that just has me crazy, it's a Christian music video. Then he says "I know this may be hard to believe and understand, but I do love you and no matter how this ends I will love you to my last dying day. You will always be in my hear and mind, my very best friend. I don't know what hurts me (him) most, to know that you're (me) hurting or to know that I'm the one that's causing it."
My response, "we both had share in getting here. My hope is that you find peace in yourself. The pain is incredible, yes, I just go one day at a time."
Why is he doing this? I haven't tried to have any R talks in a week now, just been doing my thing. It's like he doesn't want me to detach.
Of course he doesn't want you to detach. WHen you detach he has no control over you anymore. In fact, that is the point of detaching! To take the power back. He is sensing you are detaching and he is trying to reel you back in. Let me tell you how this should have gone:
He texts:
"I know this may be hard to believe and understand, but I do love you and no matter how this ends I will love you to my last dying day. You will always be in my hear and mind, my very best friend. I don't know what hurts me (him) most, to know that you're (me) hurting or to know that I'm the one that's causing it."
Your response should have been:
"Thank you."
You see. You validated and acknowledged what he said. You didn't give him any satisfaction that what he was saying meant anything to you. Your response was ok, except for the last line. He wants you to be in pain. You need to show him you AREN'T in pain. Even if the pain is so intense you are unable to get out of bed.
Detaching is soooooo hard. I am struggling with it myself. Struggling mightily! But you just keep at it.
As far as how you should respond to him? Please go read the validation thread. You can find it as the 2nd or 3rd response to most threads on this Newcomer board from Cadet. It will be invaluable in your responses to your H as you detach yet validate what he is saying.
Oh, and remember sandi's 37 rules. Especially "Believe nothing he says, and half of what he does."
Then H sent me some texts on my way to work, one was a video that just has me crazy, it's a Christian music video. Then he says "I know this may be hard to believe and understand, but I do love you and no matter how this ends I will love you to my last dying day. You will always be in my hear and mind, my very best friend. I don't know what hurts me (him) most, to know that you're (me) hurting or to know that I'm the one that's causing it."
My response, "we both had share in getting here. My hope is that you find peace in yourself. The pain is incredible, yes, I just go one day at a time."
Why is he doing this? I haven't tried to have any R talks in a week now, just been doing my thing. It's like he doesn't want me to detach.
it could be any number of reasons... whenever i had broken off past relationships (before marriage) i was sad... felt bad and even felt love for the person i was letting go... your husband may really be feeling those feelings right now... you cannot get sucked up into it... those feelings are his to deal with--however he may... you have to focus on you... in the words as sung by Gladys Knight and the Pips in I've Got to Use My Imagination, you've got to: "keep on keepin' on"...
here are some of the lyrics:
I've really got to use
My imagination
To think of good reasons
To keep on keepin' on (Keep on keepin' on)
Got to make the best of (Best of, best of)
A bad situation (Bad situation)
Ever since that day (Ever since that day)
I woke up and found
That you were gone (Gone, gone)
so yes... keep on keepin' on... you won't detach by sheer will... Getting a Life will get you there... use this time for growth... don't let one second of it be wasted in just staying the same Meg... keep the good parts of you, grow the tired parts of you, learn new parts about you... not to be a new Meg, or a better Meg, but to be THIS Meg... an experienced Meg... wiser Meg... living life to the Nth degree Meg... fresh, exciting!
as always, mis dos centavos--
--artista
[quote=meg24}
As we were standing in the kitchen, he hesitated and then asked what he should do if he was in the mood for sex. I know what you're all thinking, but I would rather him come to me for that than go elsewhere. I am able compartmentalize it right now.
[/quote]
I hear you on that one. I'm in the same boat. I'd rather he be sleeping with me than someone else. Does it sting a little that he says "do you want to have meaningless sex?"... it does. But, I have needs too. It has to be a two way street. If I want sex he is going to have put out as well - and he simply said that he doesn't have sex with me I will go looking elsewhere. Sex isn't going to fix our broken marriage and I don't want him to see me just as a tool so its a fine line to walk.
I am so weak. I fell for it again. H texted me again. That he has wanted me for 20 years, wanted the girl who would dress up to go out, the girl who couldn't get enough of him, the girl who would talk to him about everything. He tried to hold on waiting to get her back, fighing to get het back, but eventually it hurt too much and he shut down all emotions.
I fell for it, texted back, that I wish I could change history, that I can see that girl inside me.
He is rewiring our history, to a degree. I did stop paying as much attention to him, after kids came along. But I didn't completely shut him out.
I know, work on me, GAL, one day at a time. But even if we do end up working on R, I don't think he will ever think it's anythig more than my fault.
It's uncanny that I'm exactly where you are right now. :-(
It's not easy to detach.
My husband has said he felt so rejected and so hurt and he will never put him self in the position to be hurt like that by me ever again. He will not go there anymore.
We seem to be at the same stage in this... I don't have any words of advice as I barley make it through the day myself.
My goal today is not to text while he is at work tonight... didn't do so hot last nigbt... time to try again.
So I am totally failing at detaching this week. I myself haven't initiated any R talks with H, but as soon as he makes even the smallest comment about our sitch, I take the bait.
After Wednesday's fiasco (see my last few posts), Thursday was all quiet, until last night.
H has been sleeping in the house all week due to temperature drop in our area (his hunting trailer is from 1970, pretty much no insulation). Anyway, all week I have already been in bed when he gets home, and asleep by the time he comes to bed. Not so last night. We both climbed into bed at the same time, I went to go to sleep. After a few minutes he gets up to gather his things to head out to the trailer. I commented on it, he said why should I sleep inside? Because it's warm (it was snowing outside at the time, a rareity for our town). He said I told you the other day that I want sex, but you don't get it.
At this point the discussion proceeds that once again, I am not initiating, showing affection. He said he's moving out next week, he thought I would be taking this opportunity. I stopped him and said our sitch is different right now, it's harder for me to read his body language, so how do I know when he wants sex? He needs to give a signal. He did agree, apologized, but proceeded to stand there while I cried. Then he said that he feels the more we have these talks the more unfixable our R feels. I told him I don't feel the same. I said I know this will never be the same, but different and better if we work.
He went out to his trailer and sent me a text that he stood there waiting for me to invite him to stay, that inviting is different that me stating I don't want him to go out to trailer.
I responded that I don't want him out there, that I don't want him to move out. He said he had to move out. I asked him to come back inside, he did.
H is still testing me. I told him he has to stop testing me, it's not fair. I told him it [censored] that when I was pursuing, trying to make quick changes, it pushed him away, and me pulling back is also pushing him away. He said that he will probably find fault with everything I do right now, one way or the other.
How do I stop myself from getting sucked into the discussion? Especially without making him think that I am done and no longer want the marriage?
He said that he will probably find fault with everything I do right now, one way or the other.
Meg, think long and hard about this, because it's true.
He knows you want the M. You don't need to show him or tell him. Even when I stopped wanting the M, my XW had a hard time accepting that. I had to tell her a few times before it sank in.
i am sorry, Meg--but he is playing games with you... very immature... he pretty much sums it up himself--he will likely find fault with everything you do... when he got up to go outside, you should have just let him go... in my opinion, he is being cruel to you... testing you... you cannot win... he knows you don't want to lose him, and he is putting everything on you... even the responsibility of reading his mind... and you keep going for it... you believe that what you did in your marriage was so horrible that you deserve to be treated this way... i hope you are able to come out of that mind set soon...
Meg - I had the exact same conversation with my husband.
I started to show him that I did care and return to the affectionate woman he married but it became smothering and he said as such and pushed him further away.
He said he wasn't feeling appreciated but I asked how can I show appreciation where you don't feel smothered? And, if I leave you alone and give you space won't you feel further unappreciated?
He said he didn't know the answer. Which I believe is true.
I think our spouses are struggling with what they really want. The grass looks greener but they aren't really sure. Their heads are probably all over the place.
Where it gets complicated is that they spit out bits and pieces that they are ruminating in their heads. Those bits confuse us even further because they are just a piece of a thought. We are wondering what does that MEAN? I have to remind myself it really means nothing. It really means that he is still on the fence.
Its easy to get your hopes up with a simple phrase but then a mere 8hr later be dealing with a spouse that has retreated again.
My dearest friend tells me - that the sun will rise tomorrow and if it doesn't then we have bigger problems. Hugs!
I agree KitCat, the behavior is all over the place. H doesn't know what he wants. I personally think he's struggling with issues from childhood and thinks that the issues are strictly from our marriage. My IC, and a few people in my support circle, who are trying to remain unbiased, whom all know both of us very well, all say that his anger from his unmeet needs from me isn't just because of me, they all so it's partially from unmet needs from childhood, manifesting in marriage. If that makes any sense.
Anyway, the pain is still intense, but the crying is getting easier to manage. I told him I won't read his mind anymore, if he wants something, he has to say it, in specifics, not just generalizing.
he is playing games with you... very immature... he pretty much sums it up himself--he will likely find fault with everything you do... when he got up to go outside, you should have just let him go... in my opinion, he is being cruel to you... testing you... you cannot win... he knows you don't want to lose him, and he is putting everything on you... even the responsibility of reading his mind... and you keep going for it... you believe that what you did in your marriage was so horrible that you deserve to be treated this way... i hope you are able to come out of that mind set soon...
H is moving out next weekend. I don't know if I want to be here, but it may help me detach. I am really trying to take Artista's words to heart. I haven't been a horrible wife. In H's own words (or, at least he tells me that he tells others), he can't say anything bad about me as I haven't done anything wrong.
Holy cow this whole thing is incredibly hard. One day at a time.
Well, I'm convinced is in MLC. The weekend was ok, he was gone during the days.
Saturday evening was talking to my father-in-law and he told me about a conversation with H he had on the phone that day, where H just snapped at him for no reason, out of the blue. I told father-in-law, amd s19 and s17 who were listening, that H isn't in a good place right now, don't take it to heart.
Sunday morning H was telling me something about a diet his new running partner has him on, and how he needs to start going to the gym. In 22 years of M I have never been able to get H to eat healthy. I tried cooking healthy, tasty foods, he wanted no part. Now he wants to make all the these lifestyle changes.
Talking to my boys yesterday afternoon, before H came home, they can't wait till he moves out, he's so angry all the time.
Oh, and he got and he got a haircut in a style he hasn't done since we got married.
Pretty sure it's MLC, possible OW.
Meg,
You're right that he doesn't know what he wants, and he's right that he's going to find fault with whatever you do. It's not a problem you can solve.
He's not happy, most men like to be problem solvers, so he's going to offer up suggestions for things for you to try but none of them are going to work.
Do you know what will get him back?
1) He has to fear losing you -- right now he does not. You're just there for the taking and doing the proverbial "holding onto his leg for dear life"
2) He has to see you as a person of value
3) He needs to believe that his problems are his own, not problems caused by you
So how do you create the fear of losing you, establish that you're a person of high value, and make him realize that you are not the root of his problems?
>> Go the other way and give him more space than he wants <<
Do not jump through even one of his hurdles. If you're "high value" you don't need to jump through his hurdles, you don't need to prove anything to him, he has to prove himself to you.
Make a life for yourself that establishes that you're having fun, doing what makes you happy, and are surrounded by friends who like and appreciate you.
You want him outside looking through the window at this wonderful life you've created.
Shift your mindset -- YOU are the prize to be won, what is he doing to win you?
There are two ways this is going to unfold:
1) It will continue to slowly erode until it ends in divorce
2) It will get worse and then it will get better.
Either way, it will get worse first. You need to grab the handlebars and say "enough". Don't let him know what you're thinking, make him wonder. Don't tell him where you're going or who you're going out with. Make him wonder. If he doesn't want to be your husband then that information is none of his business.
Will he get mad? Yes. Will that feel worse for you? Yes. Will it make things better longer term if you can keep it up? Yes.
I was helping a woman here a few years ago and her situation was similar. At one point, she stopped pursuing her husband and just went the other direction. He moved out expecting to live a party boy lifestyle but discovered instead that he was mainly just lonely.
He called her at one point and she was at a party. When she answered the phone there was music in the background and people were laughing and having a great time.
He asked her where she was. She said "At a party"
He asked who she was with and who was there. She said "I'm out with some friends, we're having a great time. I don't have time to talk right now, have a great night!" Then she hung up.
Within 48 hours he was back on her doorstep begging to move back home, and she told him "no".
If that sequence of events happened to your H, how do you think it would shift his mindset?
Logically you might think he would give up on the marriage, or it would push him further away, but in reality something like that unfolding:
1) Makes him feel out of control
2) Makes him question his assumptions about you
3) Makes him feel loss
When he feels those things, he will want to stop feeling them, and that's going to motivate him to seriously consider what he's doing.
It basically flips where the power is between you 180 degrees, and that's what you want.
In order to make this better you need to make it worse -- head the other way. Give him more space than he wants. Stop explaining yourself to him.
Acc
Meg 24, I am new here.
However, your post is one that I will be following. My teens are also happier now that their dad has moved out. He also was angry all the time. I am also happier but wonder if miracles still happen and if this marriage can be saved.
Hi Meg,
I read your thread. I am sorry you are here and for what is happening. I have been there before and I can relate to the feelings of fear, panic, frustration, sadness, anxiety, and lack of control. It's the worst. I can assure you that it will not stay this way, however often things get worse before the get better. This process can take a very long time to unfold. Your H may need to lose everything before he sees how much he values it. So please do not let him think you are going to allow him to treat you this way or play these games with you. It is time to get tough.
I think you are getting some fantastic advice -- from Accuray, Anotherstander, and artista -- and really, I could not say the same things better myself. I hope you will read their words again and again and let them sink in. When I was in my sitch and read here, I recall understanding the advice that was written, but really struggling to accept it. My emotional crisis would interfere with my ability to make changes. So please keep posting and reading here and take baby steps every day. Follow the 37 rules as best you can, even if at times they do not feel natural for you. Let him pout, threaten, walk away, and blame you! You simply live your life, listen, listen, listen, and then pull back. The only words he needs to hear from you are "I am sorry you feel that way. I hear what you are saying. I will not stand in your way." He can try and blame you and rewrite history, that's his process of guilt, but you now are showing him an amazing and strong woman.
I see your struggle of wanting to please him (show him affection and invite him back in), as he is demanding that while simultaneously pushing you away. The mind games are maddening. Here is the thing tho; you will never win. You cannot please this man, and all you can do is let him go. He is holding fear over your head because of his own fear. Do not take the bait. He told you himself he is leaving anyhow. So no more affection, hugs, s-x, you waiting and hoping he comes back in, etc, etc. Even of he gets more mad and blames you further, that is fine! Over time, he will have to accept that these are HIS choices.
These sitches take a long time, so just let him go and let him be. It is okay for him to fear losing you (I happen to think it's a good thing). Why should a man think he can walk out on his W and family and they will sit there and wait for him? You might have trouble seeing this rationally because you are spinning. So the idea now is that you let him go, don't share your process with him, and you focus on you, your own mental health, and your kids. Find your own joy and happiness wherever you can, you deserve that. You owe him no explanation of anything (lunches, social media, where you want him to sleep, NOTHING). DO not allow him to control you anymore. He is leaving, so bye bye now, H! He chose to leave you, do he can go, and he doesn't get to keep playing with your mind.
Meg is taking her dignity and power back..... and over time, my dear, that makes you the far, far more attractive option! It is time to take a giant step back, GAL, and 180 all the way. You can do this and you do not measure reaction. Over time, this is the only way he will start looking back over his shoulder.
Blu
I think you are getting some fantastic advice -- from Accuray, Anotherstander, and artista -- and really, I could not say the same things better myself. I hope you will read their words again and again and let them sink in. When I was in my sitch and read here, I recall understanding the advice that was written, but really struggling to accept it. My emotional crisis would interfere with my ability to make changes.
I keep reading every word, every day. It does help me build my strength.
So please keep posting and reading here and take baby steps every day. Follow the 37 rules as best you can, even if at times they do not feel natural for you. Let him pout, threaten, walk away, and blame you! You simply live your life, listen, listen, listen, and then pull back. The only words he needs to hear from you are "I am sorry you feel that way. I hear what you are saying. I will not stand in your way." He can try and blame you and rewrite history, that's his process of guilt, but you now are showing him an amazing and strong woman.
I am getting really got at just looking at him and listening as he talks, I haven't been saying "me, me, me", but just listening. It does my soul good to hear you and others on hear by my "cheerleader".
I see your struggle of wanting to please him (show him affection and invite him back in), as he is demanding that while simultaneously pushing you away. The mind games are maddening. Here is the thing tho; you will never win. You cannot please this man, and all you can do is let him go. He is holding fear over your head because of his own fear. Do not take the bait. He told you himself he is leaving anyhow. So no more affection, hugs, s-x, you waiting and hoping he comes back in, etc, etc. Even of he gets more mad and blames you further, that is fine! Over time, he will have to accept that these are HIS choices.
Right now, I, as well as the kids, are just counting the days until he moves out. We will all be able to breathe. They are tired of the yelling, avoiding, blaming, etc. I keep talking to my 2 boys, s19 and s17, trying to keep everything open, so they can learn from my/our mistakes. D13 stays in her room most of the time, but I talk to her about relationships in general more regularly now. I need to be a good, strong example for her.
You owe him no explanation of anything (lunches, social media, where you want him to sleep, NOTHING). DO not allow him to control you anymore. He is leaving, so bye bye now, H! He chose to leave you, do he can go, and he doesn't get to keep playing with your mind.
This one I have been able to pick up fairly easy. I don't relate anything to him that I'm doing. If he asks, I give him little detail. Tonight will be interesting though, I'm having dinner with both of my sisters-in-law (both married to his 2 brothers, well, one is common law, the other is going through divorce due to transgender issue (not her own)). H is called off work today due to weather, so he'll probably be home when I leave. Should be ineresting (or not, hard to tell anymore with him).
Meg is taking her dignity and power back..... and over time, my dear, that makes you the far, far more attractive option! It is time to take a giant step back, GAL, and 180 all the way. You can do this and you do not measure reaction. Over time, this is the only way he will start looking back over his shoulder.
You bet! Actually, my strength and strong sense of independence is what mostly attracted H to me in the beginning.
Meg, your story sounds so similar to mine. My H started pulling back this summer when an OW came into the picture at work. No PA that I was aware of, but definitely EA. Suddenly I was the source of all his anger and problems. I definitely believe it is a MLC as one minute he's talking about buying a motorcycle and moving out, the next he's talking about having kids (but with who if I cause all his problems?!?!)
I unfortunately found out how much effort and time he had invested in this OW instead of me. He had gotten an increase at work, and had been secretly taking the money for 3 months while we were in counseling working on our relationship.
In counseling he would be responsive and agree, try for one day, and then feel like he didn't have to try. The counselor actually called him out for his inability to decide what he wants and how he is clearly disregarding what I am asking him and telling him I need. She said he needs to figure out his out situation first before he can commit to us again. I found out he was saving up for an apartment. I begged.. And cried and cried. But he turned even more bitter and cold and said some horrible things to me. I asked him to leave his job for me, to choose me over whatever was happening with this girl at work (he still says nothing was/is happening, but clearly it isn't a professional relationship).. And he told me work was more important to him. This completely broke me, and it was at this point in the beginning of January that I started DB.
I called his bluff on the moving out bit. Even helped him find a temporary place. I limited contact, refused to reach out, did my own thing, started working on my own mental health. I had developed anxiety and panic attacks during our issues between Sept-Dec. I said I would try to be there for him if he really needed me, but that I couldn't be his buddy.
It didn't take long for him to realize how lonely he was. By the end of the first week he was actually pretty depressed and was admitting that i wasn't the cause of his problems and stress. I held my ground, and he went to individual counseling and actually was prescribed AD.. He didn't want to take them at first, but he found his negative feelings were too strong. He kept asking me to come home, but I kept reminding him this is what he wanted.
After 5 weeks he returned home and promised to be a different man. That lasted 3 days. Once he was feeling better on the AD, work was better, and he was comfortable at home again, low and behold I see him out for lunch with the OW and another coworker. He never once asked me out to lunch or tried to make plans with me. He denied it being an issue, said it was just lunch (the day after Valentine's Day) with his team... When half the team wasn't there. The next week I find a conversation between the 2 of them. You can tell she's trying hard to get a reaction out of him. Trying to joke around, asking for him to call her, and being extra friendly. For the most part he didn't reciprocate, but he never told her to stop.
This threw me for a loop. My anxiety and panic attacks have returned, as has the crying. I was doing so well when he was not in the house, but his return has us right back to the beginning. He started saying I was overreacting, crazy, causing him stress. He's been rude and mean all over again. Like he forgets all of January and what it's like to be alone. Twice in the last 2 weeks he's made a comment about ending our relationship.
So after joining the forum yesterday and reading through posts, I've started detaching again, but I know it will be harder living in the same house. This weekend I told him I needed space and booked a quick trip to Florida. He asked if I wanted him to come too, and I said no. Already he's been nicer and trying to be friendly with me.
Stay strong through the move out, this will definitely help. Just make sure he's away long enough to really understand what he's missing.
Wish you the best of luck.
So once again, I get an "F" in DB. Went to dinner last night with both my sisters-in-law. Didn't tell H in advance, he wasn't even home when I left. I did text him to let him know that everyone, kids included, were on the own for dinner. I do that whenever it's leftover night and I don't want to cook, se he can decide if he wants to stop for something on the way home.
Anyway, his response back, "it seems like I'm always on my own lately, but thanks for the heads up". I shouldn't have taken the bait, but I wasn't going to let him do the "always" thing. I went back through all my texts to him last 2 months, and only 4 texts that say leftovers or on your own. I responded that once a week, maybe twice sometimes, is not "always", and it's not just him.
So anyway, dinner with sisters went well, until special needs s21 calls asking about dad moving out, he's got boxes. We haven't outright told him what's going on, mentally he's about 8, on a good day, and he grabs a hold of one thing and focuses on it and nothing else. We decided to just let him experience day to day changes. He's pretty smart, he knows something is going on. I told him to breathe, and dad is going to stay with a friend for a while but he will see him on weekends.
Got home from dinner, H still awake watching TV in bed. He probably wasn't watching (was on a channel/program he NEVER watches), he was probably just waiting for me, stewing in his own anger/confusion. As I climbed into bed I asked what his timeline was for moving, so I can mentally prepare myself, as I don't think I can handle it. He said he'll start this weekend, but it seems like I'm handling everything pretty well. We went round and round, he said he will go back to sleeping in his trailer, he doesn't know why he's in the house. I stood up for myself, said you told me where you're at, to focus on myself, and I can't do both. Round and round, he said I'm right, he can't have his cake and eat it too. He's confused right now, he doesn't know what he feels.
Round and round. We get around to the ILYBNILWY. I boldly said that the in love feeling is the beginning high that doesn't last, everyone pretty much knows that, but it turns in to deeper love, the love he keeps telling me he has for me (but not in love with me). He says no, In love should last forever.
Round and round. We get around to H saying I have given him everything, but he feels like something is missing, someone out there that can give him what he wants, he mentions again that he thinks it's MLC. I agreed. I then said, finally (I've been holding it back), how is it we were finally getting to the point where the kids are growing, we can focus more on each other, why he is doing this now. He said he doesn't know. I told him he needs to talk to IC, he said maybe. I told him I hope he finds peace in himself.
This morning as alarms started to go off, snooze buttons pushed, he rolled over to me and pulled me to him and put his arm around me. He hasn't done that since early-mid December. I'm not even taking that gesture as a bread crumb, just him feeling guilty.
Believe none of what he says and only half of what he does.
Meg, that was a huge backslide. You've gotten some golden advice in this thread, but Accuray's is a home run. It's the perfect synopsis of what we're all trying to tell you. Please stop this "more of the same" behavior and get on board with DB'ing, it'll help you first and eventually your M. My spidey sense says your M has a very strong chance of recon, but it has got to be on YOUR terms and after he has lost you and hit rock bottom. Take Accuray's post and copy it onto your phone, or print it out and keep it in your purse or pocket or whatever so you can read it several times a day. You can't nice your H back. You can't fix his problems for him. You can't snap your fingers and have your old H back. You can't temp check him back. Time and space are your friends and your weapons. Use them in abundance.
Meg, that was a huge backslide. You've gotten some golden advice in this thread, but Accuray's is a home run. It's the perfect synopsis of what we're all trying to tell you. Please stop this "more of the same" behavior and get on board with DB'ing, it'll help you first and eventually your M. My spidey sense says your M has a very strong chance of recon, but it has got to be on YOUR terms and after he has lost you and hit rock bottom. Take Accuray's post and copy it onto your phone, or print it out and keep it in your purse or pocket or whatever so you can read it several times a day. You can't nice your H back. You can't fix his problems for him. You can't snap your fingers and have your old H back. You can't temp check him back. Time and space are your friends and your weapons. Use them in abundance.
I agree, it was a HUGE backslide for me. H just has a way of roping me in without doing or saying much of anything. And he's really good at making me feel like I did everything horribly wrong, even as he says I didn't.
I don't know if he really believes that he's confused, or if he still believes that I'm to blame. But last night was bad. I wasn't the usual emotional mess as normal, for the most part I kept my composure. But I think that he feels that me backing off, as I have been before last night, that I'm done. I don't know.
My mantra, "Believe nothing he says and only half of what he does."
Don't beat yourself up Meg, this is tough stuff!
As I climbed into bed I asked what his timeline was for moving, so I can mentally prepare myself, as I don't think I can handle it.
When you say you have to mentally prepare and you don't think you can handle it you're telling him:
1) That you can't live without him, and will therefore sit on the shelf patiently waiting for him to change his mind which gives him all the power in the relationship
2) That he's responsible for how you're feeling, which he'll resent you for because it makes him feel guilty. This guilt blanket will make him want to avoid and get away from you so he stops being reminded of the impact he's causing. This is what "act as if" and "GAL" are all about.
How you want to handle this is to be smiles, enjoy your life and say "enjoy moving out! Let me know when your stuff will be gone" and move on.
Round and round. We get around to the ILYBNILWY. I boldly said that the in love feeling is the beginning high that doesn't last, everyone pretty much knows that, but it turns in to deeper love, the love he keeps telling me he has for me (but not in love with me). He says no, In love should last forever.
Hopefully you've learned from this and will not engage in another R talk ever again. That's not just "don't start an R talk yourself" that's "don't participate in one at all, even if he starts one"
Meg this is super hard and requires a ton of discipline. The sooner you can get him out the easier things will be for you, believe me. You should be encouraging him to go at this point, then make him miss you and appear happy!
Acc
Accuray..
I hear everything you say, I keep reading and re-reading your words. Every day I tell myself I won't go to that "place". Then I get sucked in.
It almost feels like one big test lately, to see if I "really love him", and if I do I should be doing all the things he wants, no matter what his feelings towards me. I told him last night that "I can't do those, you told me yourself it won't work."
He said he'll start this weekend, but it seems like I'm handling everything pretty well.
I shouldn't have engaged, I know. His comment above makes me think he was at the very teeny tiny beginning of feeling he's losing me.
Or am I reading too much into it?
Its a process... this DB thing. I stumble a lot too!
I've managed to get my ropes in place and I finally stopped bringing up R. I just don't go there now. I've learned that bringing it up doesn't help me feel better and it just reminds H how confused he is.
Now that being said I do still make other mistakes. I am not detaching much at all which is not good for me.
Sometimes some of this stuff just needs to play itself out. You need to let yourself make the mistakes as a reminder on why not to go that direction AND to figure out that you are strong enough to pick yourself up and keep moving forward.
One hour at a time... until it can be a day at time!!! We will get there!
Meg the problem with these scenarios is that we forget ourselves. Think back to when you were dating. Did you like the guys who threw themselves at you, bought you gifts and did your homework for you, or did you like the guys you had to work for? That were mysterious, that you didn't know if you could get them or not?
For some reason, when we become an LBS we default to "pleasing mode" but you *know* deep down that this never works.
If you want him to want you, you need to be a person of value, you need to rise above. A person of value does not tolerate his crap. A person of value needs effort to be engaged.
Be the prize to be won. Be the prize to be won.
Acc
Let's see if I can sum up the last 3 days. Most of what's been going is with special needs s21.
Every morning he's been asking about H's boxes of clothes, when will he be home, how long will he be gone, etc. Just remember, he's 21, almost 22, with cognitive abilities of 8-year-old, on a good day.
Every day after school he calls me as soon as he gets on the bus, then again when he gets home, and sometimes again before I leave work. He asks same questions over and over. I just keep telling him I don't know. We have to take one day at a time, just focus on today. I finally had to ask son's doctor to increase his anxiety med dosage, and current is no longer working. I even called his teacher, so she could help ease his anxiety at school. I finally came up with the idea to put H's visit schedule on kitchen calendar (s21 LIVES by the calendar, goes nuts if something is there that doesn't get done).
I guess last night when H got home from work (I was already asleep), s21 proceeded to ask him something about the calendar (H informed me of this conversation this morning). I told him we need to come up with a schedule and put it on the calendar. H said "I wish you would include me in on these decisions before telling him" (kind of along the same lines how he told s19 and s17 aboud BD without including me on that decision). I told H that I mentioned to s21 that we would put H's visits on the calendar once we know what they are, there was no decision involved. He said fine, maybe he would spend some Saturdays with s21 after son's bi-weekly Saturday activity, possibly have s21 spend night at his new apartment. Yeah, that won't go over well with s21, he hates going ANYWHERE, he hates sleeping anywhere but his own bed. But we'll see. But it does need to go on the calendar for s21 to look at. Then when H flakes/forgets/overbooks himself (he's done the SEVERAL times), he can deal with the fallout.
Meg, so sorry for that. That has to be tough. Shows the selfishness of the WAS. This just breaks my heart. I could never do that to any child let alone a special needs child. But then I am not on this board because I have a problem.
I will keep your family in my prayers.
Journaling here, to build my strength against R talks when H comes tonight.
Since my last post Friday, well I've been up and down. I was half asleep when H came home later than usual Friday. He came into bedroom for minute, I asked if it was still raining out, should be turning to snow any time. H went back to kitchen, I fell asleep. All night long I could feel H put his hand on my hip, same things he's done pretty much every night of our marriage (except for the last 2 months, he's only done that maybe 25% of the time, when he's slept in our bed).
Very early Saturday morning I vaguely here him up moving around (this is his new Saturday routine, get up and leave before I'm awake), then leave. I woke up a bit later. Noticed he took the stack of boxes of his clothes that had been sitting packed since Tuesday night. But he didn't take anything else. Everything looks like he'll be back in the evening, for weekly family dinner (he said Tuesday he would attend).
Dinner time comes, text H if he will make it, all kids are home. 30 minutes later and no reply, decided not to make the kids wait any more. Then he texts that he won't make it back up the hill till Sunday afternoon.
Today, Sunday. H left work lunchbox in usual spot, I opened to pull out trash. Saw his daily planner and log book. Didn't think anything of it. Every year he gets a new planner to write work hours in, but only uses it for a week or 2 then stops. I know I shouldn't have, but something in me decided to open it. He just started writing work hours in the past 2 weeks, and daily entries started with the birthday of some female friend on facebook. Someone I've never met. But, prior to my self-imposed exhile from FB, I saw many comments on H's posts back and forth between her and H. Funny thing, our s17's birthday was the day before hers, but he didn't have that marked, nor any of the other kids' birthdays either (he always has trouble remembering their birthdays). But he sure made a point to write hers down. So I looked forward a bit in the calendar, at least he wrote down the day I'm having my minor outpatient surgery so he can take me (like he said. But I'm still expecting him to back out, and not tell me until the day before, but I'm ready, I have a back up). It's taking every ounce of energy I have not to log in to FB to see what he's posting (haven't been on in almost 2 weeks).
H will be home this evening, not sure for how long. I don't want to have any R talks, but something inside of me is chomping at the bit. We do need to talk about finances and putting his visits on the calendar for s21. I need strength.
Meg -
Can't tell you what the planner thing means if anything.
I can tell you at the beginning of my crisis point with H he was CONSTANTLY on his phone. Texting all kinds of people. Mostly female.
It drove me bananas... AND, he knew it irked me.
The minute I stopped letting it get to me. Didn't care who or what he was doing on his phone did started to stop.
Looking back he was just unhappy and reaching and grasping at anything to keep himself preoccupied - to not focus on us and trying to find his happiness.
With my H it was really and truly nothing.
Hope you are hanging in there this week.
Sunday evening with H home was disaster. I was fine until he asked how I was doing. I just seem to lose all self-control and progress when he's around.
Yes, we had R talk. Bad. At one point I mentioned that it felt like there was someone else paying attention to him. I mentioned that I don't understand what's going on because we're at a point in our M where we can focus more on each other since kids are getting older, and now he wants out. He totally bypassed the comment about someone else, jumped in on the focusing on each other. H said, again, that maybe it is MLC. He's been thinking about the future, how we're so opposite, until know we've had kids as diversion, but as we get older less diversions, how will that oppositeness bring us together? I told him just because we individually don't chose a particulare activity, we do it for the ones we love because we love that person. He seems to think we have to WANT to do the same things, rather than doing them because we love each other.
Anyway, H is going to come home a few nights a week for now, for the sake of s21. He's going to be home tonight. I'm not really looking forward to it. He texted me this morning, "try to have a good day, I'll see everyoe tonight". Don't know why, since it was already arranged.
Meg,
So sorry for what you're going through here.
He's been thinking about the future, how we're so opposite, until know we've had kids as diversion, but as we get older less diversions, how will that oppositeness bring us together? I told him just because we individually don't chose a particulare activity, we do it for the ones we love because we love that person. He seems to think we have to WANT to do the same things, rather than doing them because we love each other.
This is *very* common WAS behavior. They'll start looking at personality match articles, astrological sign compatibility charts, and will bring to light any evidence they can find that you are not meant to be together.
Everyone is "so opposite" in some ways and "so the same" in other ways. It depends what you focus on.
That said, look what happened: H staked out a position that you two are incompatible.
You took the bait and argued with him, or tried to convince him that you are not incompatible.
That set you up as adversaries -- H was claiming "X!" and you were saying "No! Not X!"
That feeling of being opposed to you is what's going to reinforce H's need for more space.
If you said "I'm sorry you feel that way, I wonder what's on TV tonight?"
or "Oh yeah, the ways in which we're incompatible has always been a challenge"
The conversation has no where to go, and you're not staking yourself out as his adversary.
There's a strategy sometimes discussed here called "relationship Judo". In Judo, you lean in and use the attacker's momentum against them, versus trying to resist their momentum.
In relationship Judo, if someone wants a little space, you give them even more space. If they claim you're incompatible, you agree and give an example of how you're incompatible. etc. It diffuses their momentum and makes it feel like you're on the same team. Remember that the feelings matter much more than the words.
Try to take a vacation from what H is doing, thinking, planning, plotting. Pretend he's someone you barely know, who cares where he's going.
Now what are you going to do for you? What's important to you about the life you want to live? Do that.
Acc
Meg - this conversation about "having nothing in common" is the exact one my H said to me... nearly identical. And, like you our kids are getting older and we are nearly empty nesters.
I would caution on pointing out to him that its MLC. He needs to figure this out on his own.
I think the text you got today was your H trying... in his way he is trying. With that said don't place to much hope in it. It just shows he doesn't know what he wants. My H said he couldn't possibly find happiness while stuck in our marital home, but the bottom line is he just doesn't want to feel trapped.
I know its hard - I struggled too but once I stopped bringing up R talks life is has taken a lot of improvements. I hate the feeling of being in limbo but overall we are being so much more kind to each other AND that helps tons!!!
Your H has to figure out his place in the M as you enter this new phase. I feel your pain and I know its hard... its uncanny how similar our H's are.
I know I shouldn't fall for the R talk. But I can state that I do not start them. Each of the last few times for the last few weeks, he has started them. I just am not good at the validation part and walking away. Perhaps because that is one of his original complaints, that I don't communicate well enough, so I don't want to appear as if I'm doing "more of the same". I don't know. Maybe I'm just week. I don't have any problem, however, refraining from calling and texting.
Hopefully when he comes up tonight I can hold my ground. My strength and independence was one of the things that he was originally attracted to, so why is it so hard for me to get that back?
As far as GAL, I just spend lots of time with my kids. They're all big, so I know it's not necessary. But I like hanging out talking with them, and they seem to come out of their rooms and talk to me a whole lot more when H isn't there. Other than that, I am planning a road trip to see a very close friend of mine that I haven't seen in about 2 years. She knows both H and I inside and out, and knows I need her comfort.
I am absolutely horrible at validating!!!
I jump in and handle issues to fix them. I tend to take over probably leaving my husband feeling he can't even pay the light bill. NOW, some of that is his own fault. He complains and complains that he just wants to pay is own bills but when push comes to shove he ends up leaving it for me to do... ugh...
Anyway Meg, I am here to tell you that when I do get it right AND validate my husband along with walking away... it works. This is a serious 180 for me. Just listening and not fixing it??? Its tough but I see results so I need to keep working at it!
It's not instantaneous but usually by the next day I notice something different about his demeanor to me.
You know your husband and I'm pretty sure you can come out with something typical he might say - so practice your response. If needed write it down. Say it over and over. That way when it comes time to deliver it won't seem entirely foreign.
I have a long way to go to truly validate but like DR says... they will even notice the small steps!
Hang in there.
Last night with H at home went ok. He talked about health problem he's having, asked question about medication. I didn't have much information to offer. We sat down to dinner, he complimented that it was good, I said thank you.
After dinner I sat down to watch TV before cleaning up. After everyone else left the room he comes to me and says that he is trying to have a normal evening, with normal conversation. And if I am not going to try for some normalcy then he won't even bother coming over. He said at dinner I didn't even acknowledge him and I mumbled to him when he said something to me. WTH?? I said I'm sorry he sees things that way, I am trying to be normal too, I said I'm sorry if you said something to me that I didn't hear, or if you didn't hear my answer to something you said. End of it.
H went to bed first, I went to bed after cleaning kitchen, he fell asleep few minutes later. Again, all night long, his hand was on my hip, like every night for the past 22 years (with the exception of the last 2 months).
meg I'm in the same boat. Seeing positive changes but can't yet trust them.
Remember detaching is NOT about being distant and ignoring. Being angry and silent are just as bad as being needy and sad. Remain upbeat. Smile be happy. Consistently no matter what he says or does. Detaching is about not letting him dictate your emotional state. You are emotionally detached.
So Meg why did he come over? Was this a scheduled visit for your special needs son?
I find it a bit odd that he just moved out but yet is still having sleep overs?
Scheduled visits for your special needs child shouldn't require overnight visits on your H's part.
H is just angry. I think his comment about "normal" was to stir the pot? I think the best thing you can do is just keep smiling and be as pleasant as possible. IF he complains - validate... "I can understand why you might feel that way", "Oh, I was being quiet? I hadn't realized that"
He's a lot like my H. He doesn't want to hear the "but, I'm x,y or z". Not right now. He is looking to be angry.
Validating will diffuse the anger. It will make him think. You may not get a response you hoped for immediately but it will throw him off guard.
Now, you need to ask yourself what your boundaries are. H moved out and now he is sleeping over. Is this okay? Can he pick and choose what bed to sleep on at his convenience? What about your choice? You know your situation best but I would think he would value you move if you told him that you really wanted to give him his space and time right now and its confusing that he comes back and forth having only moved out a few days ago.
You are doing fine. Baby steps!!!!
Today, Sunday. H left work lunchbox in usual spot, I opened to pull out trash. Saw his daily planner and log book. Didn't think anything of it. Every year he gets a new planner to write work hours in, but only uses it for a week or 2 then stops. I know I shouldn't have, but something in me decided to open it. He just started writing work hours in the past 2 weeks, and daily entries started with the birthday of some female friend on facebook. Someone I've never met. But, prior to my self-imposed exhile from FB, I saw many comments on H's posts back and forth between her and H. Funny thing, our s17's birthday was the day before hers, but he didn't have that marked, nor any of the other kids' birthdays either (he always has trouble remembering their birthdays). But he sure made a point to write hers down. So I looked forward a bit in the calendar, at least he wrote down the day I'm having my minor outpatient surgery so he can take me (like he said. But I'm still expecting him to back out, and not tell me until the day before, but I'm ready, I have a back up). It's taking every ounce of energy I have not to log in to FB to see what he's posting (haven't been on in almost 2 weeks).
i am not sure what you should do about this in your situation, but this would concern me...
So Meg why did he come over? Was this a scheduled visit for your special needs son? I find it a bit odd that he just moved out but yet is still having sleep overs? Scheduled visits for your special needs child shouldn't require overnight visits on your H's part.
This was a scheduled visit for special needs son, yes. We've put short term schedule on calendar, which does help. But I'm thinking the weekday visits are just going to confuse son, as he is still asking about other days during the week. Son told me last night he want Dad to stay my H, wants him to come home. I just tell him I know, I'm sorry I don't have answers for you, just think about today.
H is just angry. I think his comment about "normal" was to stir the pot? I think the best thing you can do is just keep smiling and be as pleasant as possible. IF he complains - validate... "I can understand why you might feel that way", "Oh, I was being quiet? I hadn't realized that"
You're very right, I think H is trying to stir the pot, or make me look like the "bad guy" because I'm not being "normal". It's okay, my kids know what's up, they see it all.
Now, you need to ask yourself what your boundaries are. H moved out and now he is sleeping over. Is this okay? Can he pick and choose what bed to sleep on at his convenience? What about your choice? You know your situation best but I would think he would value you move if you told him that you really wanted to give him his space and time right now and its confusing that he comes back and forth having only moved out a few days ago.
H said this back and forth right is now is to help mostly special needs son, but I almost wonder if it's something else, maybe for himself? He said he doesn't want to feel awkward when he's with us. Well gee, I think that boat has sailed.
We won't see him until Saturday, at special needs son's bowling tournament and awards dinner. He is going to take son to his new apartment in between the tournament and the dinner. That's 5 hours. I don't think he's spent 5 hours alone with this son since he was a baby. I'm pretty sure he won't again after this Saturday.
Meg, I can't remember if there was an OW or not? I think you didn't think so.
I read a couple of books on women's infidelity a few weeks ago. The author made an interesting remark. She said wives (and this would apply to husbands too) don't need their own place in order to "figure things out". They need their own place in order to sleep with other people.
I don't say this to upset you, I say it to make you realize what you are potentially dealing with. To face the reality of the situation. Very very very few people walk away from a marriage where there are no other accentuating circumstances (physical abuse, addiction, sexual abuse of others) without having another person they are leaving for.
Steve - I don't entirely believe that. Spouses don't need separate places to have A's. They just don't.
Meg - I can tell you my H is NOT having an affair but truly believes 100% right now that he can't find his own happiness without a place of his own. Is he right? No, but here's the kicker - it's what he believes.
My H doesn't want the burden of being responsible for anyone else right now other than himself and his kids. That is why he wants space and time - to move out. Not because of an A.
NOW. Your H doesn't not need to spend the night when coming over for visits with special needs son. Honestly the overnight is probably what confuses him more. You've stated he is at the level of an 8yr old. 8yr olds are smarter than you think! From your post it sounds like your son is very routine oreiented - I get that. My son was high functioning autism level - long story on where he is today BUT, I get the calendar thing. It worked in our house for years. Visits to his dad's were very traumatic for YEARS. However, having his dad staying at my house overnight would not have done him any favors. Now, you know your son best and by all means having family time in your home is probably a great transition but don't use the excuse that H spends the night for your son's benefit.
If you are okay with H spending the night that is your choice and you know your situation best. I, however would have some boundaries for a spouse that just left the M home.
Of course your kids know what's going on when your H stirs the pot but this is YOUR chance to diffuse the situation. Smile. Validate - "I didn't realize I was being so quiet. Maybe you are right". It will diffuse the anger he is trying to create and throw him for a loop.
So Meg you have plenty of time to practice practice practice before Saturday. Go to a private place and be saying the words out loud. Come Saturday when H takes special needs son for a few hours. DO NOT MICROMANGE. Often times when spouses aren't doing individual parenting time its because they are being micromanaged or made to feel inferior.
NOW when you see H again be sure to say thank you for taking son to apartment. That's validating. That's being pleasant. If you want to save your marriage you are going to have to bite your tongue when talking with H right now. Don't let him take you down a dark path. Smile. Validate. Don't say any - but, xyz. You've got 2 days so practice! You can do this.
Meg, I can't remember if there was an OW or not? I think you didn't think so.
the whole "unknown female's birthday on H's daily planner" and the back and forth Facebook comments between H and same female is suspect--imo... it does not mean a physical line has been crossed, but i suspect there is interest on H's part and perhaps on female's part...
Meg, I can't remember if there was an OW or not? I think you didn't think so.
I don't think this whole thing started with an OW, except maybe he was starting to get attention from someone. Or maybe hanging out with single friends from work, or guys from work who never want to go home to their family (as told to me previously in stories by H). Now there might be the beginnings of OW, I don't know. Frankly, right now, I can't expend any energy on that, then I would just focus on "competing" rather than being good for me.
Part of H's reasoning for needing own apartment (so he says) is because he had to cut off all emotion for me (overnight, basically) after so many years of me not meeting his needs (he states that the first bit of marriage was perfect, then I started "shutting down, shutting him out, not giving him affection"). Now he doesn't want to work on M anymore. This is where I'm struggling. For years I truly believed that I was a horrible wife who just couldn't get it together to give him everything he was asking for. Lots of self-reflection lately, and I for the life of me can't see that my actions or behavior changed that radically. What I can see is that we started having children, and my focus was split.
If anyone has any insight into this type of situation, I will accept any and all input.
Your H doesn't not need to spend the night when coming over for visits with special needs son. Honestly the overnight is probably what confuses him more. You've stated he is at the level of an 8yr old. 8yr olds are smarter than you think! From your post it sounds like your son is very routine oreiented - I get that.
If you are okay with H spending the night that is your choice and you know your situation best. I, however would have some boundaries for a spouse that just left the M home.
This is something that I have been thinking about. I was not expecting him to do this back and forth, and after last night with son, and today, I think son is more confused than ever. So this will probably be a boundary. I think H doesn't quite want to let go, maybe that's why he's doing it. But I can't do it.
So Meg you have plenty of time to practice practice practice before Saturday. Go to a private place and be saying the words out loud. Come Saturday when H takes special needs son for a few hours. DO NOT MICROMANGE. Often times when spouses aren't doing individual parenting time its because they are being micromanaged or made to feel inferior.
As far as H spending time with s this weekend, I'm not saying a word to him about anything. He can figure it out himself. I won't see H very much, I doubt he'll come to the actual tournament for very long (he has never wanted to watch son at during his regular bowling league days). He will probably just pick son up from the bowling alley, then come bring him to me at the awards dinner in the evening. So I don't believe there will even be a chance for any time of issue.
Steve - I don't entirely believe that. Spouses don't need separate places to have A's. They just don't.
You're right. But that isn't the point. The point is their own place make sleeping with other people so much easier. A) They have a place to do it. B) They aren't coming home to anyone asking where they've been, why they are freshly showered, whose cologne/ perfume is that you smell like. etc.
At this point, if H is having PA, for my own mental health I can't focus on that. But I have going to have to put sex as a boundary. Prior to H moving out, sex was not a boundary for me, as I do know where H stands, and it didn't change my expectations. But now that he's out, not in our home every night, I don't know what/who he's doing, and will NOT compete with anyone.
I found this ground new meme on Pinterest that I made into my phone's wallpaper. It says "Don't expect her to play her part, if you have other women auditioning for her hole." It's too build my inner strength. I just put it on my phone yesterday, and last night when H was up here, I do feel it helped me to have the strength to not take his bait.
At this point, if H is having PA, for my own mental health I can't focus on that. But I have going to have to put sex as a boundary. Prior to H moving out, sex was not a boundary for me, as I do know where H stands, and it didn't change my expectations. But now that he's out, not in our home every night, I don't know what/who he's doing, and will NOT compete with anyone.
I found this ground new meme on Pinterest that I made into my phone's wallpaper. It says "Don't expect her to play her part, if you have other women auditioning for her hole." It's too build my inner strength. I just put it on my phone yesterday, and last night when H was up here, I do feel it helped me to have the strength to not take his bait.
you are showing wisdom, strength and grow, meg24...
I have survived my very first 24-hour period with no contact. I told H yesterday morning when he left that I would see him Saturday. He said ok.
He just now sent me a text... he hopes my week is going ok, did D13 get back from 3-day school trip to Catalina, did she have a good time? He asks if it's ok if he comes up Sunday night and stays, or if it's not ok he'll make plans to see the kids during the week.
He can't go very long without contact. Interesting.
So, H did a temp check this morning, annnnddddd I fell for it. He picked s21 up from his bowling tournament to spend the day together before the awards dinner. Shortly after leaving the bowling alley H texted me, asking what man I was seeing or talking to. I answered that I am not talking to or seeing anyone. I should have left it at that, but I didn't.
I said you are the one who wants to date other people, not me. Asked him what would even make him think that. He replied it was just a feeling. I said I have not desire to even look at anyone, I'm just relearning myself, and he's the one trying to figure things out. He replied again that it's hard for him right now because he's trying to find what he wanted from me and only me for so many years, and I show no interest in us so he thought I might have started to move on.
I texted back that I'm trying to give him his space, since showing interest in us, focusing on us, was pushing him away. I'm just working on myself. H replied you're absolutely right, I'm sorry.
I haven't initiated one single conversation/text with H. He can't seem to go more than 24 hrs without reaching out to me. I know it doesn't mean anything, but why does he do that?
Why does he do that? You already called it... He is temp checking... He knows he asked for space... He is not interested in fixing your marriage but is playing games with you when he says you are not interested... He knows you want to stay married... You need to stop falling for the bait, and you need to let him deal with the consequences of your giving him his space... In other words, he needs to deal with your detaching... You need to let him get there...
Meg, no biggie! just get back on the horse!
Meg - hang in there. A simple slip up is just that! Simple... and easy to pick yourself up and keep going foward.
Read my sitch - H did the very same thing to me. Started in with saying I had boyfriends all the time... and things like is that where you go with your boyfriend.
I like you would clarify that I have no boyfriend and I was there with co-workers (my H knows we only have women employees where I work)
I eventually learned just to say the truth - "No" and move on. I stopped clarifying it and adding more words. You will get there too!
Meg - hope you are doing well and holding tight!
Your situation nearly mirrors mine.
My H said it would take a miracle for him to feel differently and he didn't believe in miracles. But, you know what? I am seeing a light at the end of the tunnel. We are a long way from being healed but I can now see its possible.
I have to remind myself to keep at what was working and stop doing what wasn't working. But, we are sharing AND making plans in the future which I didn't think would happen so quickly after some of the really harsh things he had said at one point.
I think there is a light for you too... Just remember the steps you need to take to get there. The hardest part for me was having the good days followed the next by H withdrawing again. Those were hard to digest but now its easy to see that he was still plagued with uncertainty.
It can get better.
I answered that I am CURRENTLY not talking to or seeing anyone.
See the above correction. And yes, should have left it at that. He'll ask again I'm sure. Next time just say this and move on. Don't get drawn into a convo about it.
He can't seem to go more than 24 hrs without reaching out to me. I know it doesn't mean anything, but why does he do that?
Because he wants you to hang on as Plan B while he does whatever the hell he wants to. He needs that safety net in case his plans come crashing down. But here's the thing, as long as you hang on as Plan B he'll never want you to be anything more. Get out. Get a life. Make yourself the spouse only a fool would leave. Stop all pursuit. Leave him to the mess he's making. When he temp checks you, DO NOT tell him you're sitting around waiting for him. Quit putting up with his crap! YOU are the prize, not him. First you need to realize that. Then HE will realize it. I can't tell you how many women have come here in your exact same sitch, and patiently waited while their WAH sowed his wild oats. It's not until they get fed up and kick him out of their lives that the WAH suddenly realizes what he really needs was there all along. Unfortunately for them, usually by the time they figure it out and come back begging and pleading, the LBW doesn't want them back.
Well, we have a huge, whole family involved (mostly), blowout the other day. H was coming up to spend time with the kids (mostly s21 and d13). Long story short, his "blood started to boil" (his terminology) when he saw s19 on the road on his (son's) motorcycle. Son was supposed to be going up to the high country to get his truck unstuck from the snow (previous post).
Anyway... that didn't happen. H got to the house, called s19 told him to come back home, started yelling, saying various things, then said "f*#@ you all, you deal with it, you must not care about the expensive truck stuck in the woods." He kept going on, then s17 spoke up and asked H to leave. He was trying to protect his brother from something bad when he got home.
Anyway, H left, s17 left to friend's house, then H came back said he was packing the rest of his stuff. We yelled a lot back an forth as he packed. H then started to calm down. S19 came home, H was calm. Fighting went back and forth. Finally came to the point that we were still in the same spot. H is confused, feels he hasn't been getting his needs met by me for years, after years of telling me his needs and me doing "nothing". Same discussion, different day.
He left off saying he wanted to come back Tuesday for dinner and to spend time with kids, but only if everyone in family was comfortable. I checked, everyone was fine with it. So he's coming to spend time with kids this evening. I told the s17 and s19 to put on a happy face, don't avoid him. And if things go south again, we can honestly say that it was not any of us, he is the one in the sour mood (which we all know, even H has admitted he puts everyone in bad mood).
So that's my long story short. To give a detailed play-by-play would take a while, but we all survived. I had heart-to-heart with all the kids, told them they each have to form their own relationship with him.
So no steps forward, no steps back. But I did learn that H thinks I don't care anymore, he says I don't seem to care about him because I don't ask him at all how he's doing through any of this, I don't talk to him about anything. So he sees me detaching as "more of the same" and that I've moved on.
But I did learn that H thinks I don't care anymore, he says I don't seem to care about him because I don't ask him at all how he's doing through any of this, I don't talk to him about anything. [/s] So he sees me detaching as "more of the same" and that I've moved on.
this is what you are not getting... let him think that... he is out the door... YOU NEED TO DETACH... HE NEEDS TO DEAL WITH YOUR DETACHMENT... YOU NEED TO LET HIM DEAL WITH YOUR DETACHMEHT... he is all over the place... he is playing with your emotions... he is blaming you for all of it... this is all on him... but you just keep tossing dirt on yourself, making yourself look pathetic... it is not a good look... i'm sorry, Meg... i know that's harsh... but my desire is to help you see that you need to value yourself more... especially more than he does... but you keep mirroring back to yourself the way he sees you... get a spine, Mollie! (i call my gal pals Mollie sometimes)... we keep telling you to let him go... he himself has told you that you cannot do anything to appease him... so stop trying...
Meg, please go back and read BluWave's initial post to you... it is a gem... you are blessed to have had her share her real-life experience, her wisdom with you... but you have not received it... go back and read it... and follow it...
i am sorry but when all hell broke lose the other day, i think you should have tossed H's a$$ out door... enough if enough... he has your entire household in turmoil... he is not being fair to you nor your sons... and you are not being fair to your sons...
my two cents...
--artista
THAT'S WHAT HE WANTS YOU TO THINK.
You have already said that you wanted your marriage. You have already said that you are trying to give him space so that he can figure things out.
He's trying to make you responsible for his feelings - NOPE NO WAY.
He just moved out. After reading about your blow up maybe its best he not come around the house for a bit - OR only if you are going to be out. Your kids do not need adult drama at the dinner table. If he can't pull it together long enough for dinner then perhaps he doesn't need to be there?
If its best that he spend time at the house for special needs son then arrange for him to be there for dinner when you are going to be out.
I get that having a sit down family dinner can make everyone feel connected but he is loose cannon right now. He is taking his anger out on everyone. I feel you can draw your line in the sand with this and keep your dignity.
Your H feels trapped in his current situation and he doesn't respect you. This isn't a proper assessment but it is how he feels. You need to draw your boundary in how he behaves in the home around your kids and you. You CAN do this in a loving way.
Look - my male best friend said something to me about his feelings when going through something similar and HOLY COW my H said the exact same thing. When I started making the changes in how I interacted with my H MONTHS before I bought DR my H was pissed. He flat out told me he felt betrayed and that just made him more angry. His view point was this - if I could do all these things now then I was capable of doing then before which just meant I made a choice to ignore him. I don't know how many times my H just said he was just confused by what I was now doing.
Your H is angry. He sees the changes in you Meg. Its unsettling him. Its confusing him.
I get that your gut reaction is to assure him you are not ignoring him but all I can tell you is to keep on doing what you are doing. It's getting to him.
We had a calm evening when H came up to see kids last night. Had dinner, watched TV. Talked about completely neutral things. Of course the kids all scattered to their rooms, only coming out to eat.
There was sex involved before he left. I'm pretty sure that's the real reason why he wanted to come visit. He knows the kids all hang out in there rooms all the time anyway (what teenager doesn't?)
As much as I don't want to let the last bit of connection go (sex), I think that I need to stop allowing it. He is not seeing me as a person of value, just as a physical release. I don't know though if I'm willing to face the reality of H seeking that release elsewhere though.
How do I go about setting that boundary with him, without him completely turning away permanently? H can be very manipulative, very narcissistic, and he even admitted to me that he is a cake eater. So I'm not sure how to handle this boundary.
Sometimes I do wonder, though, if I can ever be back with him. I don't ever see him accepting his part in the deterioration of the MR, or doing things differently going forward.
I have read and re-read BluWave's post, as well as her thread about her piecing. The piecing thread really hit home. She talks about what I've been feeling... do I even want to be with H again, after who he's become and what he's done? But then, yes, he has been abducted by aliens right now.
Every since the blowup Sunday evening, I have done so much more deep reflection than I imagined possible. I dove deep into severe self doubt.... did I really shut H out of my emotions, stop giving everything I had given him previously, like he says I did? I still can't answer this one. But I can't change history. Not meeting his needs of affection and affirmation, which leads to him not meeting my needs of doing things for me. We each did for the other what we wanted done for ourselves. We both failed to speak the other's love language.
We both contributed to the downfall of our M. I don't blame him for my behavior, or lack thereof. My shutting him out emotionally, and pulling back on affection, etc., that is all me. Only I am responsible for my actions
Just as I am responsible for my actions now, only I am responsible for my feelings now.
I will not let H make me feel like everything I do is wrong, I will not let H make me feel like our sitch is all because of me.
Don't get me wrong, he does tell me that he had a hand in getting here too. But I often wonder if he just says that, and says that he's the a?&hole for doing this, so that I will "fall on the sword". He is a master manipulator, after all.
I don't like who H is right now. Can I ever be willing to be with that H again, even in a "new" MR? Only time will tell.
I did learn something today.
I posted previously about suspecting OW, and about said OW's birthday in H's planner. I also posted about H saying he was going to date other people, and me taking Facebook off my phone for my mental health (it'll be 4 weeks this weekend since I've been on FB, yay me!).
I do still have FB messenger on my phone however, due to the fact that s17 broke yet ANOTHER phone, and now has to use s19's old phone (s19 has own cell plan, different carrier). Said phone is not unlocked, so s17 can't text or call, but can use apps and other data-driven stuff. So FM messenger is the only way for me to communicate with him.
Anyway, I received a request on messenger today from someone I don't know, but I could see the first line of the message so I accepted and read. It was said OW's FIANCE, notifying me that he just caught fiancé/OW with my H, they just left together on H on motorcycle (H is off work this week due to company in between projects). He said OW was stated she was leaving him for my H. He just wanted me to know. Said he thought it has been going on for about 3 months.
Which is about when BD happened.
I have a minor outpatient surgery scheduled tomorrow, been scheduled for quite a while. H is supposed to come up in the morning to take me and drive me home (I live about 35 minutes from the surgery location). He will stay with me at home until the kids are home from school to help me (father-in-law will be home, but he won't be able to attend to me as he has an MRI tomorrow at the VA hospital, his friend is taking him).
Anyway, my angel best friend said I should just go as normal, not say anything, see how H acts, if he's on his phone a lot while waiting, etc. I think I agree, I won't say anything, yet.
But it does help me with setting a boundary I've been struggling with... sex. When H came up Tuesday he said he will be back up Sunday evening (I had invited him to family dinner Saturday, St. Patrick's Day corned beef and cabbage, his favorite, but he said he wouldn't be able until Sunday). So I will tell him, nicely, that it's not necessary for him to spend the night. In fact, it confuses s21.
I'm sorry, meg24... It's all script and gaslighting on his part... Now you know that H is not only manipulative, but H is a liar... Now you know what is really going on...
I take it you didn't respond to OW's fiance...
BTW, you sound better than okay!
I take it you didn't respond to OW's fiance...
BTW, you sound better than okay!
I did respond to OW fiance that I already suspected, but thank you for information.
I am ok. Tomorrow wi be hard, but I'll survive. After that, who knows. We'll see how often he asks to come "visit he kids" once I tell him no more sleepovers.
Amazingly, I'm not angry, I don't hate him. I kind of feel sorry for the mental state he's in.
But again, we'll see how I do tmrw.
Wow... just wow...
Meg take care of yourself. Well wishes for smooth procedure and speedy recovery. Your children are old enough to help out around the house and tend to your needs. I would try to rely on your H as little as possible.
You definitely need to set clear boundaries. Whether or not you reveal your knowledge of the A to H is a personal choice but I'm sure the OW fiance' at some point if he hasn't already told the OW that he has contacted you. Once that happens OW will share drama with your H. You need to know that "drama" on either end will pull them closer together. The less drama you create will not add more fuel to their fire but be the bucket of water that snuffs it out.
M's survive A's all the time - look at this board. Many make it to recon but many LBS's decide they no longer want the M. Remember there is no deadline... this is your time table. You've taken a lot of steps to look inward already and are finding you are stronger than you thought. Whether this M survives is no longer up to H but completely up to you. You hold the power.
Hugs!!!!
I did learn something today.
So sorry Meg
Anyway, my angel best friend said I should just go as normal, not say anything, see how H acts, if he's on his phone a lot while waiting, etc. I think I agree, I won't say anything, yet.
I agree, it can wait. I wouldn't concern yourself too much about whether he's on his phone or how he acts, you know he's having an A so that's kind of water under the bridge at this point.
But it does help me with setting a boundary I've been struggling with... sex. When H came up Tuesday he said he will be back up Sunday evening (I had invited him to family dinner Saturday, St. Patrick's Day corned beef and cabbage, his favorite, but he said he wouldn't be able until Sunday). So I will tell him, nicely, that it's not necessary for him to spend the night.
Yeah I think that's a good approach, if he keeps pushing you then you can let him know that you know about OW and the sex (with you) needs to stop because you don't want an STD. And let that be the end of it, don't let him try to negotiate it with you by saying she's only a friend, or he'll get tested or wear protection or whatever. Just shut it down.
How do I go about setting that boundary with him, without him completely turning away permanently?
If he turns away after you cut him off, then what does that say about your relationship with him and his attitude about you? I mean to me it says he's just using you, and ending that would be best for you anyway.
Meg,
Take it from me, no need to acknowledge the affair let alone contact them. I did this exact thing and it made my XW dig in deeper and go underground on her affairs! She became even more resentful towards me and my kids once I confronted her.
M's survive A's all the time - look at this board. Many make it to recon but many LBS's decide they no longer want the M.
I think all LBS start out trying to save their M's, I was one of them but as I discovered the many layers of betrayal from my XW along with a ton of work with my IC and support groups I no longer wanted to reconcile with her. It took me almost a year to realize this, my XW currently is person I have zero interest in, physically, emotionally, zero! Of course I do miss the financial part!
Hope everything goes well with your procedure. Stay strong!
meg so sorry. I knew it wasn't a good thing you finding OW's birth date in his planner. People just don't do things like that for members of the opposite sex without there being a reason. I am very sad that our spouses make these choices with the far reaching effects it has.
I've been hurt multiples times by family and friends that have made the choice to step outside of their marriages with catastrophic effects. People do not realize how many people are hurt and affected by their actions. We still grieve the loss of our nieces XH, whom we all adored, and it has made fully accepting her new baby-daddy BF fiance very difficult. Its been a year and half and many of us will suddenly say how much we miss her XH.
But people that do this are beyond selfish. And though we love them immensely and can't see how very flawed and (yes I will use this word) evil they are. We want to hold onto the "but they never would have done this!" image we have, which causes us to blame ourselves more harshly than we should. Yes it takes 2 to let a MR deteriorate. But it that is no excuse for one to step outside of the MR.
Okay, enough of my preaching. Most of it is driven by hurt and pain, and Meg your last post really made me hurt for you. I think ADs may be in my future..............
Update....
Yesterday with surgery went smooth. H showed up earlier than necessary to pick up me up. Kids hadn't left for school yet. Interesting observation about the kids though. I've known where my boys stand for weeks. They are angry at H, and after individual heart-to-hearts I had with each of the kids after last Sunday's blow-up, I learned that they are kind of glad H is not in at home anymore (due to their past interactions with him).
Anyway, even after last week's talk with D13, I still didn't know how she felt about everything, other than sad. But yesterday morning as she left for school, it gave me some insight. As she was walking out the door to the bus stop, she said, as she has every morning (and night as well) for YEARS, "love you mom". H was sitting right next to me, he asked her if she's walking to bust stop (5 minute walk), did she want a ride, she said no thanks, she'll walk. She left. As the door closed, H said "love you too". Of course she didn't hear him. D13 has had Daddy wrapped around her finger since birth, but she's never had the typical father-daughter relationship that usually goes along with that. She has always confided in me about everything, whenever she needed or wanted anything she would come to me, never Dad.
When s17 left an hour later for bus stop (Friday's are late start day at the high school), he pretty much did the same thing, said "love you mom", but nothing to H sitting next to me at the kitchen table.
Arrived at Kaiser for surgery on time, checked in, sat in waiting room for quite a bit for my time to be called back. H amazingly didn't get on his phone but twice, for just a minute each time. He comforted me, rubbed my back (I was very nervous, as I've never had any surgery, or any medical procedure other than an epidural during labor). After I got called back, he helped answer medical history questions. I had removed all my jewelry at home, but not my wedding rings, so he held on to them (I wasn't sure he'd be willing to put in his pocket, but in recovery that was the first thing he did was give them back to me). He did give me a kiss as they wheeled me back.
Minor heart complication as I was walking up, nurses and anesthesiologist were all concerned. Consulted with cardio, who said to call my regular doctor Monday ad have him order full work-up. Finally convinced the nurses to bring H back from waiting room as he would be worried what was taking so long. He was concerned about the heart thing and that I was hooked up to EKG. Discharged.
H drove me home, gave instructions to all the kids. Told me not to take s21 to bowling league today, and not lift a finger all weekend. I said thank you for being with me all day. He said if he hadn't been off work all work he would have called in sick to be with me.
Take it from me, no need to acknowledge the affair let alone contact them. I did this exact thing and it made my XW dig in deeper and go underground on her affairs! She became even more resentful towards me and my kids once I confronted her.
He said he would be up either Sunday evening, Monday or Tuesday. Guess he's got "busy" weekend with OW. But I didn't mention it. I'm sure OW's fiancé has told her that I know. But I am with dusty70, no need to acknowledge the affair. It won't do anything for me, at least right now.
I have a question, I don't think I've come across anyone asking anything similar on the board.
This morning my father-in-law asked me if H was mad at him. He said H has been pretty much ignoring him (I think he means not calling, texting, etc.). Now, FIL and I have had a few talks on the whole sitch (I don't give him details, haven't told him about OW). I told FIL that H is ignoring everyone, and that he's pretty much pushed everyone (not just us in the home) away, and has a whole new group of people to hang out with/lean on.
My question... Is typical normal behavior for WH/MLC to get a whole new set of friends/support system, and have almost nothing to do with family/friends?
My question... Is typical normal behavior for WH/MLC to get a whole new set of friends/support system, and have almost nothing to do with family/friends?
yes... it is typical... common... when i became a WW, at one point, i deleted all my church friends from my Facebook... i stopped being involved with my homeschooling-mom friends... i didn't really align myself with a new group of friends because my relationship with OM was not like that, but i did drop people who i knew would disapprove of what i was doing...
My question... Is typical normal behavior for WH/MLC to get a whole new set of friends/support system, and have almost nothing to do with family/friends?
Yes as Artista said it's very common. They don't ALL do it but a lot of them do. Someone here used to say years ago that WAS's disconnect in this order- spouse, family, friends. Then they reconnect in the opposite order.
My x is in Alaska and has not seen our children in 18 months. He does not call them, and he & I have not spoken since we separated, although the day he left, we were intimate and I had no idea what was going on.
His bff is not close to him anymore, several of our mutual friends are horrified and he's just not in contact with them. I assume he spends holidays with OW and her family,
With his new FB world of posting about his HAPPY LIFE (and calling the OW the "love of his life" too) you'd think we had never been married or created a family of 5.
Of note - It would alarm ME as a woman, if I were dating a man who did not speak to his adult children. In fact, I am dating someone and that's something I watch for, how he does with his son...it'd be a huge red flag to ME,
but obviously I and the OW and xh do not share the same values.
The part that gets crazy making in all this is when we project our values onto our former spouses, when the fact is they do not now have those values. That's HOW they can do what they are doing.
WE would be mortified, embarrassed, shamed, etc.
But not them. So try not to wrap your brain about all that and try hard to get out of his head.
I asked "Why is my h making these horrible choices???" and "How can he do this???" over 1000 times here on these boards. ( I think that's literally true.)
It Got me nowhere, but a lot of running in place. I stayed stuck asking instead of moving.
So, I pass this on to you.
1) Focus on what you can control which is yourself.
2) Learn all you can about the finances. IF this ends in divorce, the settlement is the most important financial transaction of your life, and you and your kids deserve the best.
3) GAL for real. Join something, learn something, go somewhere and enjoy planning the trip, teach or volunteer or coach or study or learn an instrument, take a class, start a group,
b/c that's how you can crowd out the constant obsessing and sad or angry feelings, with new positives in your life. That's what you can control.
For me, I also found that turning my pain and marriage over to God helped. I had to think it, say it out loud and hear myself say it, for it to sink in.
There is a prayer that Caroline Myss suggests we do, and it was very helpful to me.
"Let me let go of the need to know why. I will never know why. And endless questioning is endless suffering."
((( )))
3) GAL for real. Join something, learn something, go somewhere and enjoy planning the trip, teach or volunteer or coach or study or learn an instrument, take a class, start a group,
b/c that's how you can crowd out the constant obsessing and sad or angry feelings, with new positives in your life. That's what you can control.
this right here, what 25yearsmlc said...
meg24, you have been reluctant to GAL because you were concerned that your H saw it as you moving on, not caring... and he even conveyed that to you... and look, he was gaslighting you all along... he is out GALing with OW and his motorcycle, and you go to dinner with sister-in-law, and he gripes about "always" being on his own for dinner... sheesh...
please take GAL more seriously... more than hanging out with your kids... more than a potential trip to your friend's... GAL helps you tap into new interests... grow forgotten interests... connects you with new people... perhaps reconnects you with long lost people... it takes your mind to new and wonderful places... it grows you, Meg... expand your life...
mis dos centavos...
--artista
I totally hear you 25. I am really working on not trying to figure out what is in H's head. He seems to be an almost completely different man than the one I married. Almost. He is still very self-indulgent, he has always been that way. I just looked past it most of the time.
Thankfully I have been handling all the finances for years. I pay all the bills. The only difference now is that he puts his paycheck in his own bank account (his company doesn't use direct deposit, so he just started picking it up at the office rather than have it mailed home). He does give me money weekly, but I am working on a contingency plan in case he decides he doesn't want to anymore.
I'm not sure what stage I'm in at this point. I'm going to ride this whole thing out, but if H does decide to come back, right now I don't know if I want him home. I did things for him during our marriage that I normally wouldn't (nothing illegal). Things I had no desire to do, but did them because I wanted him to be satisfied. He has mentioned since BD that he knows I didn't want to, but he still wants to do them. That just might be a deal breaker for me. I won't compromise myself any longer. But we'll cross that bridge when we get there I guess.
Meg
Like yours, my divorce was a California divorce but xh moved to Alaska, making things REALLY crappy for me. And I may not have had the best lawyers. They were not failures but they were very pricey for mediocre results in a prolonged 16 month divorce in a no fault state. Even now I have not been paid and I accepted the offer h made.
Please see a lawyer asap and then get a plan - EVEN IF you want to stay married. Knowledge is power.
Meet and talk with a L and you do not need to retain a lawyer but you do need info. Especially with a special needs son.
BTW, the past 17 months have presented me with a series of disturbing discoveries about my x.
I feel as if my x had been leading a double life. It's pretty dizzying to keep learning how OFF my beliefs were and how many lies I had believed.
Many puzzle pieces make more sense now. In your case, there is a part of you that sees your h's historic self indulgence and in my case, a lot of what my T has helped me see, is how much my needs were shelved and I felt I could take it, I could fill my love tanks "later",
but there was no "later". I was never to get "my turn", in my m. I thought we were past his irrational Alaskan obsession and I felt that he'd reward my loyalty and devotion and endless forgiving, but I was wrong.
I became the touchstone for him to do whatever he wanted, and know the home fires would still burn and the kids would be okay.
He cut off our d20 from college though he's a physician and I was not working. He felt that me getting 1/9 of his income was perfectly fair.
And he's never once asked any of the kids or her, how she's paying for school. OR IF she is in college anymore. My T says "he Figures 25 will take care of it, (and if not, it's NOT his fault, OR maybe he'd say so what if d20 dropped out"??)
He's gone off the reservation. I simply WILL NEVER understand his choices and you know what?
I don't want to understand his choices! He is capable of cruel behavior and insane dishonesty. Like he's entitled to be believed in lying even when I have proof it's a lie.
It's crazy making! And it is depressing to believe I've wasted years on him and our m. But I worked hard to maintain the illusion that he was as invested in our m and family as I was.
Now, I get to use that energy on MY life and my kids. No more pretzeling myself to meet his ever changing needs, expressed and unexpressed.
The lying made My head was spin the first months of this (and it's round 2 for me).
And it's also over for me now. I'm done, No thanks.
Will it hurt to know if he remarries as soon as he can? Oh Sure. But that is my ego talking, not a desire for him to return.
it's not that he's changed from when we first married, (though that is true.) It's that I see him in a different light now.
And it's not a good light. OW can have him and he can have her. He's chosen someone of his caliber now. That is karma, along with losing the respect of his longest friends and our children and me, and I loved that man deeply.
I say all this^^^ to remind you that waiting to see if your h will send you money is not really a plan, in my opinion. It's like staying in a m based on their potential as a spouse, not the reality.
Your H will spend money on OW and she will want more of it. That happens all the time.
And he will justify that b/c - because- remember, he has already justified what he has justified.
Since depression was an issue for you in the past, and feeds his narrative that you "cannot be happy" or whatever he tells himself, GAL is all the more important for you.
You are doing 180s and you are also helping YOUR life improve. To me GAL is a no brainer.