Hey man! Hope today ends well and you're able to get through tomorrow on your terms. Come back and let us know how it goes.
Aside from this board - which has been a lifesaver, I've been reading stuff on zen habits and Ed Latimore's website. It's been good for a lot of food for thought and helped my DBing. Also, been hitting up a lot of podcasts lately and that's been great too.
Hope your D's are doing well.
Hey dude.....I went to the gym this morning and worked some things out. I will keep you all posted and I will check out what you recommended. I don't think the conversation will be too deep with R talk. IMO it will be mostly factual about our finances and what the next steps are. Trust me I will not bring up our R nor will a turn into Mr. Melty Man.
My D's are doing wonderfully which IMO is a testament to how my W and I have handled the situation.
I will let her know that I will provide to her any information she needs and as many things we can agree to between ourselves the better off we will be financially. So really the next steps are for her to retain an A and to just keep me posted. I don't want to give her too much advice etc. but since I controlled all of our finances I do think she would want to have someone watching out for her interests. I understand the A's are going to get into the middle of things but I guess that is probably something that can't be avoided but the extent of which we can communicate with each other the better.
Other than that it feels like a mini BD all over again. Not nearly the same level of emotion but it is still impactful. I find myself re-hashing everything over in my mind again. How could this of happened? How did I get to this place? WHY WHY WHY??? I just remind myself that there are many things in this world we will never know the answers to so why should I expect something different? I don't deserve an answer any more than anyone else does. The fact is people change and there is nothing that can be done to stop it. It is what it is.
Financially it [censored], I am disappointed that all of the plans made are going to get blown up. Then I get angry when I think about who I am as person and what she is walking away from. My ego says, "Really, who do you think you are going to find better than me, good luck with that". Then I think about my girls having a step-dad and what that is going to be like. He better treat them with respect is all I have to say. Again, driven by anger and ego. So in some ways I feel like I am cycling again.
These are the thoughts I have running through my head but since this is a safe place I feel ok in venting. If you all new me in real life you would know I would never act on anything. I am very self-aware and I do know that anything I would say would be misplaced emotion and would serve no purpose.
The fact is I truly want my W to find her happiness, I really do. If she is happy then my hope is that my girls will be happy when they are with her. I am sad that I could not help her find her happiness or she felt like her current life was not filled with happiness but it was a life we built together so she is just as much to blame for it as am I. I also know that this is more about her than me and while that is hard to accept it does bring me some peace. As we say her journey.
With all this said. I don't have any problems letting her go and will do so with my head held high. I really do hope she finds peace and happiness.
J9, I feel ya'.
When you have to face that your spouse really wants to D, the feelings can be overwhelming. Before it happens, it's easier to DB and have hope. Afterwards, the absolute reality of it all hits you hard. Don't be too hard on yourself for feeling this way.
J9,
I have been following your ditch and have read everything you've wrote. For what its worth, your reply to W when she said she wanted to move forward and the response (lack their of) has helped me immensely.
I'm sad to hear of you recent developments. I hope you find your peace.
I am sad that I could not help her find her happiness or she felt like her current life was not filled with happiness but it was a life we built together so she is just as much to blame for it as I.
This is something I'm having the worst time with. I just feel like I FAILED. It cuts me up just thinking about it.
Anyways, just wanted to share how you've helped without knowing it and I wish the best to you and your girls.
J,
Good luck tomorrow and remember to negotiate from a position of strength. Look at it as a business deal for you and your daughters lively. Don’t let the thought of reconciliation effect your judgement. It will have zero impact on that in the future. Take no less then 50/50 custody. Insist on you keeping your castle and the rest is a calculation.
Truthfully the worst is past you. The not knowing limbo stage. By the end of 2018 you’ll be in really good shape and ready to progress in your journey.
Take care my friend and of course dilly dilly lol!
J9,
Sorry to hear about W decision. Hope everythjng goes well 2morrow.
Onward and forward.
Hi all, just got back from youngest D's basketball game. She scored 12 of thier 22 points so it was really awesome to watch! The W and my oldest where their but I didn't have much interaction with them as I was at the scorers table helping keep score. I got up early this morning, got some legs in and played baketball for 2 hours. Needless to say I am a little spent.
H - I agree I think holding on to hope is fine but you can't let that interfere with detaching. I know I am not 100% detached yet so that is why I suppose it impacted me some. I feel much better today though and am ready to get down to business.
K - I am glad to hear that you have found some strength/wisdom from my sitch. I am sad but I do have total peace and am ready to move forward. I am confident with how I have conducted myself as a husband, father and during this sitch. The sad reality is that my W has changed, wants something different in life and feels that I can no longer provide it her.
If you have made mistakes in your MR work diligently to be a better man for yourself but don't for one second own your W's problems. Truthfully, I may not have provided my W what she needed emotionally, we grew apart or whatever but she was a pretty crappy W as well. I think I just tolerated a bunch of crap because I thought it was part of being MR.
I love my W, want her to be happy but I will not second guess myself. I did the best I could with the tools that I had at the time. I was naive and didnt understand "Love Languages" etc. but I was not a bad husband/father.
Hang in there!
LH - Correct, business decision. Recom will not longer jade what I want. 50/50 and the house......the rest we can haggle out with the A's.
I do feel the worst is past me and the rest is just the paperwork.
Thank you for all the support! Off to the dungeon!!!
JJ - I hope things are going well for you and your W. In the back of my mind I always thought it would come to this so while I held onto hope I am not shocked.
As I went into LRT and pulled away she never moved towards me, never showed any interest. I am sure she appreciated me giving her all the space but unfortunately it never impacted her.
Alright the W just left. We had a very matter of fact conversation about her wanting to procced with D over a beer on the couch. There was no R talks and I did not turn into Mr. Melty Man. The conversation lasted about an hour. I thought asking her if she wanted to get some lunch but I had no idea what I would talk to her about so I didn't offer. At the end she Thank me for being so thorough with what I laid out for her. I feel like I am leading her through the D process.
Everything we spoke about was finances. She does not want the house and wants to maintain 50/50 custody. She I feel like that is a win for me. Everything else will be split 50/50 so only other thing we will need to come to terms on is what I will pay her each month. There are a couple of other things that we will need to address as well but I think it should be pretty smooth.
I informed her of what the next steps are and that she just needs to keep me posted on her progress. I only showed her a strong confident man, there was no hugging or anything of that nature. At one point in time she was apologizing for asking me about money. I told her she does not need to apologize, it is part of the process. She commented to me that you know I don't have anyone or any family. I told her I understand I that I want her to be happy. That was the only conversation about us.
After she drank half her beer and we were wrapping up she told me she was getting sleepy and I could tell she was over whelmed by the conversation. Truthfully she just looks wore down, doesn't look happy and seems just really miserable. I called my mom to give her an update and she asked me if I thought I needed to reach out to her 1 more time and ask her if this what she really wanted. I told her there is no way in h$ll that is going to happen. She is a big girl and can make her own decisions.
I asked my W if she had an A and she said no. She asked me what the next steps where and I walked her though what she needed to do to file. It really appeared to me that there was no OM because if there was I would of thought she would be more educated on the process or she would have been much different with how she approached me.
Anyways that is about it, I guess we shall see how quickly she moes forward but I don't anticipate anything changing.
J9 the fat lady hasn't sung yet.
V
LOL...thanks V, it certainly feels that way but I am at peace. I had no emotion during the conversation. I thought it was odd the she knew nothing of the process, had no plans and had not consulted with an attorney. If this was a temp check then it was pretty major.
It isn't a temp check. This is a W who is regrouping herself. I think so.
Keep on trucking, leave the door wide open as long as you want to do so.
It is OK to stand.
V
What do you mean by regrouping?
I am curious to hear what you mean by "regrouping" too
J9,
I don't find it odd. Your W is not ready for D. She was trying to gauge you (temp check). She looks miserable because she is. She seems like a very stubborn person. You have probably added fuel to her misery, by showing her a confident, prepared J9.
She's came apart. She is hurting and lost.
I don't see anything wrong with standing for your M.
IMO your W won't being doing the work for this D.
Are you both A type personalities? If so than, seems to me that both of you might be waiting for the other one to blink. Just my opinion.
She isn't wayward. So she will be rationally looking at her choices. All of them.
Making a decision means closing down choices. She is tired and down, giving up an M is hard and emotional. Especially for the walkaway.
Plus you are behaving in ways she didn't expect.
So she has retreated to a safe location and gradually getting herself together. Your best strategy is to stand like the lighthouse. Merely to say D isn't what you want.
Keep on working on you, keep on demonstrating that the new you won't be offering the old M but a new one.
So she is regrouping like a tired army with no food or amunition whose soldiers have trekked a long way with bad boots on empty stomachs and foot blisters.
She is emotionally worn out, please note this is the opposite of a wayward who is bizarrely hyperactive and hyper. That's one of the ways you can tell.
She actually doesn't know what to do or decide. Just keep on with the friend stance.
My thoughts
V
It's not temp checking as she isn't wayward. She wants to know to include it in her deliberations.
Temp checking is very different, the wayward wants plan A and to keep the other as Plan B.
The walkaway has no plan A.
Just saying
V
Thanks V....she started off the convo by saying she was ready to move forward with D and she fully knows she is the one that will need to file (obviously I should not believe all of her words). Me filing never came up in the convo. She knows all the work will fall on her shoulders. When she left I told her to keep me posted and I would give her any information she needs.
I have been friendly during our interactions but still have not been pursuing or initiating conversation. She definately has all the space she needs to sort out her feelings. Should I continue with this same course of action?
It is obvious to me that she has no real plan and in many ways I feel very sorry for her. I realize I can't save her but if she desides to move forward she really will have no one in her life as she has no family outside of me and the kids. I am sure that weighs heavily on her however it is her journey to figure out.
She isn't wayward, she doesn't need saving!
I would just go Schtum on the D. Be friendly. That's the convo, say nothing more.
Keep on keeping Sandis rules they suit a walkaway sitch perfectly.
You have the gift of time, take it.
V
Thanks V.....I will stay the course.
Keep on working on you, keep on demonstrating that the new you won't be offering the old M but a new one.
V
I read a similar idea and want to say it when/if the time comes..
"You have two choices:
1. Start a new life without me
Or
2. Start a new life with me, because our old loveless marriage is dead. "
Just thought I'd share. Good luck.
K - If a R convo every came up at some point that would essentially be part of the convo.
JJ - We shall see how serious she is and if she really follows through. Maybe as she consults with an A it will make her think twice who knows. I am more a Type B personality. It is hard not saying anything to her or initiating a R talk myself but I know it's the right thing to do. She has not given me 1 sign in almost 8 months the she feels any differently. When I see her she just appears dead inside, no spark in her eyes, just very flat.
She texted me last night, sent me a couple videos of our youngest playing basketball and said that maybe we could share an attorney. I haven't responded yet as I don't think that is possible but it does appear she is full steam ahead. I have the girls this week starting this morning so I wouldn't be too shocked if she met with one after work this week. It is interesting to me that she has never consulted with one so I can't help to wonder what got her to the point to where she is ready and if I did something wrong during my DBing efforts.
Either way, what will be will be and I really am at peace.
I love your strength, it makes me feel very optimistic. My situation is similar with Avery stubborn wife. I’m waiting to see what she does, she has an attorney and I’m sure she’s trying to get her ducks in a row. But I get the feeling that she’s not sure, she thinks she wants it but she’s in no hurry. However my issues is that we are early in and I’ve been following Sandis rules, and I think she’s confused from my attidude which is aloof st best. She’s still going out for long periods of time and not saying anything, she went out for groceries and a run, it’s been almost 5 hours. I think it’s best for her to spend as much time as possible with OM so she can see the reality of it. Good luck with it and like you I’m open to the R talk but she needs to have that talk not me.
It is interesting to me that she has never consulted with one so I can't help to wonder what got her to the point to where she is ready and if I did something wrong during my DBing efforts.
Again I'm new to this... but from what I've read (no spark, dead inside) I'd like to assume it wasn't anyone else that made her say ok lets do it.
Not you at least, but I know my W has some very toxic work friends who portray this fantasy land of getting D and how great it is...
it’s been almost 5 hours. I think it’s best for her to spend as much time as possible with OM so she can see the reality of it.
M- If I may... I believe your in the ballpark for train of thought. I think you need to set clear boundaries for yourself, with what you will/will not tolerate. That's a fine line that only you can decide.
Unfortunately somewhat similar to you, I also believe that W has to get out there and 'have a chance to miss me' and/or W has to get out there and fail. See that the grass isn't greener or doesnt stay that way, in this new fantasy reality she now has.
K - I don't think anyone told her it was time to move forward. Even though she has plenty of enablers around her it is still ultimately her decision. I just found myself replaying my DBing efforts in my head thinking I might have done something wrong but in reality there was nothing going to stop this from occurring.
Truthfully, if she has someone in her ear, a significant enabler or OM I would have thought she would have consulted with an A before now, would be more aggressive with what she wanted and have been more knowledgeable about the process. I also don't think she would have waited almost 8 months to start.
M - Your strength will come as you gain confidence which goes hand in hand with detaching. You also need to step back and take a good look at the R and evaluate it objectively for what it is. If you diligently follow the rules you will gain self-respect and also your W's. Once you start to learn and grow as a person I guarantee you your feelings towards your W will change and you will no longer view her in the same light.
Early on there is this perceived power struggle because she appears strong and you weak because she took your comfortable life away from you. Over time though that will change and you will start to view her as the weak one in the R. You will start to see through her.
I do understand how and believe now that most LBS's will have a shot at RECON again. Like AS and others say though it will not happen on our timeline, could very well occur after the D and most likely by that time the LBS has moved on.
For me, it won't come until after I have moved on. My W doesn't have the money for a retainer but at this point I am not going to stand in her way of a D. All of our money is still joint money so she should have access to use it just as I should. If she really wants to file and get out that bad then I will make it happen. I am not going to play the game of if you don't have enough money for a retainer then I am going to hold you in a MR that it is obvious you don't want to be in.
M - Your strength will come as you gain confidence which goes hand in hand with detaching. You also need to step back and take a good look at the R and evaluate it objectively for what it is. If you diligently follow the rules you will gain self-respect and also your W's. Once you start to learn and grow as a person I guarantee you your feelings towards your W will change and you will no longer view her in the same light.
Early on there is this perceived power struggle because she appears strong and you weak because she took your comfortable life away from you. Over time though that will change and you will start to view her as the weak one in the R. You will start to see through her.
I do understand how and believe now that most LBS's will have a shot at RECON again. Like AS and others say though it will not happen on our timeline, could very well occur after the D and most likely by that time the LBS has moved on.
For me it feels like a break up when I was younger with a GF, you would get mad and jealous and dare her to leave then after a couple of weeks you missed them and they blow you off. Then you slowly rebuild and get over it, but just then she shows up thinking she really screwed and didn’t like what she saw out there and wants to try again. By this time you normally say I’m good, too late. Obviously this is a MR and it’s more complex and mature we have house and kids and responsibilities. Detachment is what I will work on to build my confidence once again. Thank you.
She texted me last night, sent me a couple videos of our youngest playing basketball and said that maybe we could share an attorney.
If I may offer my humble opinion, NO.
M - I guess it kind of is by obviously with bigger ramifications. The best advice I can give is to start working on detaching (it's a process not a light switch) and get into the best shape of your life.
H - I told her that I didn't think that would work as an A could only represent one person at a time.
In the same conversation I also told her that if she wants to have minimal L costs then her and I need to work together in the best interests of our future and our children to make this as easy and cost effective as possible.
She sent me a couple of emails this morning asking me who I was going to use, etc. (which I have no clue but my friend who is a judge gave me a couple names) and a few other things including paying for a retainer. I just told her to keep me updated on her progress.
M - I guess it kind of is by obviously with bigger ramifications. The best advice I can give is to start working on detaching (it's a process not a light switch) and get into the best shape of your life.
Right on, I’m a Marine and I used to be stacked, I think I’m going to make that my goal again.
W just sent me an email telling me she has a conference call with an A this afternoon and asked me to send her the financial stuff we spoke about this weekend. It is not secretive information it just lists all of our assets and debt.
The funny thing is that I am so upbeat and cordial with her. I really feel at this point in time it is no big deal. I guess being separated for almost 8 months will do that to you. She told our family friend that our meeting on Saturday went really well. I don't know what she expects but she is getting nothing less from me than a strong confident man.
I am going to need a hail marry from Doug Flutie to pull this one out
Not much new to update. My W and I have had several conversations over the past few days on custody, finances, etc. and we agree on everything so hopefully this will be a smooth process. The financial piece of splitting 401 etc will sting a bit but the monthly amount that I will be paying her is far less than what I am doing know so I should come out way ahead financially each month.
On a personal level I am doing great. I am happy, feel good and am actually really looking forward to life after D. My girls are doing awesome, I have been to the gym every day this week and have volunteered to coach my oldest D's soccer team. I also make my coaching debut on Saturday, coaching my 6 yr old team.
Not much else to report but I will continue to update until the D is final. I have come along way in 7.5 months and it feels really good to be approaching the other side.
J9, I'm glad things are going so smooth for you, given the circumstances.
I'm almost on the other side myself. Keep on being awesome!
Thanks H U2....I saw what you wrote about your STBXW and man that is awful. I have no advice but it is hard to imagine that someone can be that angry. There are a few XW's on the board that are really off the rails and I don't understand. It's like what did you ever do to get her that mad?? U know??
Anyways, my just sent me an email that she got written up at work and side swiped another car and ripped the bumper off of ours. I feel bad for her, showed her some empathy and I told her to keep her chin up
. Karma..........big daddy won't be around too much longer.
Thanks H U2....I saw what you wrote about your STBXW and man that is awful. I have no advice but it is hard to imagine that someone can be that angry. There are a few XW's on the board that are really off the rails and I don't understand. It's like what did you ever do to get her that mad?? U know??
I try not to think about my XW, but it's hard not to try to get to the bottom of her anger. I think it might be because the D took too long for her. Or she's not happy with what we agreed to in mediation (her L didn't prepare her). Or maybe OM is not looking so shiny right now. Or she is infuriated by the boundaries I'm setting.
Anyways, my just sent me an email that she got written up at work and side swiped another car and ripped the bumper off of ours. I feel bad for her, showed her some empathy and I told her to keep her chin up
. Karma..........big daddy won't be around too much longer.
You handled that very well. Good job!
J9,
IMO you are past the worst part which is not knowing. As Txhubby put it "soul sucking limbo". You separated early and went N/C except for kids and finances which is why you are so detached.
Karma has it's way that's for sure. I can list about 10 things that hasn't gone my Ws way in the past month including breaking out with hives.
Keep trying to get a little better each day.
Ewww...the hives, maybe it is the stress of it all?? The funny thing is that once I was out of limbo my detachment levels went through the roof. I am sure my w has struggled more than I realize but since I don't see her much at all I don't have any insight.
I don't wish anything bad on my W and I really hope she finds her happiness. I just know it is going to come back and bite her at some point in time just by the way all of this went down.
I am really excited to have this behind me. We are meeting with a L next week to discuss moving forward since both of us are in agreement on everything. If that continues we may end up just hiring this person to file the paperwork. At minimum I may end up consulting with an A to ensure it all looks good.
Hey man! Looks like you can get through this part of the process fairly unscathed - well, as little unscathed one can.
Yeah, just put it behind you and see what's next. I mean you're in a D without the paperwork right now. This just corrects that and it's done with. I am glad to see your spirits are up and life will go on.
Yo M......how r u????
As you know not what I asked for nor wanted but I am determined to kick the $hit out of plan B. Life goes on, I am not the first person to ever get divorced and I certainly won’t be the last.
I think the hope you have tucked away deep down inside is what prevents you from fully detaching so once you know your path it is like the seas have parted.
Give me an update on you.
Yeah I think you're right about the lil piece of hope. It has a good purpose when you're in this 'limbo' stage - where you have no idea what's going to happen. But, once the path seems to be set, it's good to let that hope go and get to that place of detachment.
I don't know how to explain it, but I can literally feel that detachment, whereas previously I was acting and trying to get detached.
I updated my thread last night, but I'll add some stuff soon. Not much has changed.
It's funny looking back everything that all the vets said where absolutely true. Early on it is very hard to see the forest through the trees and your hanging onto every word your WAS says.
Truth of the matter is like AS says they are so far gone more than you would ever know or think. By the time we all arrive the damage has been done and we are in triage mode trying to stop the bleeding. The script is all the same but everyone's WAS is different and that is the part we can't control. IMO the quicker you adapt the principals on the board the quicker you will heal but I don't think it matters at all to the WAS. Over time, potentially but not in the near future.
Anyway, I have no regrets. It has been a very rewarding journey. It is good to have hope but not so much hope that it prevents you from detaching and moving on. Detaching is definitely a process and not a light switch.
The pursuit and distance concept did not workout for me. It might have brought her closer to the extent the pressure was removed but it did not bring her closer wanting to know about my life, what I was doing, it never caused her to ask more questions or to show an interest in my comings and goings. I do know that it helped me heal which is more important.
Thanks for stopping in!
The pursuit and distance concept did not workout for me. It might have brought her closer to the extent the pressure was removed but it did not bring her closer wanting to know about my life, what I was doing, it never caused her to ask more questions or to show an interest in my comings and goings. I do know that it helped me heal which is more important.
Well, I'd say the distance definitely helped you heal, the most important part of all. So yeah, it was worth doing.
All we can do is create a scenario where the WAS has the opportunity to change direction. Sometimes it happens. Sometimes it doesn't. The desire for them to come back has to come from inside them, and that's something we have no control over.
Yes, I agree H. I would not have don't anything different. There have been times where I felt like sending her a letter or having that one last conversation for closure. Then I snap back to reality and say F-that.....she isn't getting that from me.
I do believe I created the scenario but she doesn't have the desire. All my changes have stuck since I did them for me so I am happy, confident and ready to 100% let her go. I let her go with love, strength, compassion and my head held high. I have no regrets and wish her all the happiness in the world.
with love, strength, compassion and my head held high.
That is Respect, J9. Good for you man!
Thanks Nef....I will admit it has been hard to get to this place. For example:
My W is a teacher so we have never been forced to find child care when they don't have school. Now since we are going through the D process she has essentially said that she is no longer going to care for them when it is my week to have them. So if they are out of school and it is my week I am responsible for either taking time off our making arrangements for them.
Her changing her stance really upset me at first been then when I think about it and process my emotions I realize that since it is my week there is nothing I can do to force her to take them. Spring Break is coming up and it is my week to have them. She is off all week and now I will have to take vacation time to be home with them when normally she would just watch them.
I guess unless she volunteers to take them or agrees to switch weeks (which she won't) it is just one of the consequences of D.
My W and I are meeting with an A tomorrow. Just got sent the paperwork to fill out. What a surreal moment.
Every step of this process make it a little more real.
J,
Yeah but it gets easier. The first time a got a document from my lawyer I got this sinking feeling in my stomach. Now when I do I am like yes I hope this is over.
You are through the worst of it. I still have to tell my kids. That will be the worst part.
About 5-10 newbies this week. How would you like to start over again?
Closing on my refinance tomorrow. Things are starting to look up!
Take care my friend!
J9, I got the same ppw filled it out same day sent in all documents needed the same day and made appointment to go over with L. I asked to make the process go as fast as possible. L said ok...
The question on one form asks do you want to R I circled NO. Also it asks for potential witnesses, all my children are adults so there is no custody issues. I just view all this as part of the process, not worried in the least as my W has been told the house has to be sold.
Head up J9 you are going to do great for your children
Hey LH.....thanks man! I agree, the pit in my stomach gets a little less each time I take a new step in the process. I am looking forward to this being over with as well. I don't worry about nearly as much as I used to. I am now starting to think about what it will feel like when I finally see her with OM and he meets my kids. I hope I am so far detached by that point it won't even matter but something tells me no matter what it will probably sting a bit.
I am also starting to entertain the thoughts of meeting other women as well. I am not 100% ready yet but hopefully after a few months I will feel confident enough and detached enough from my STBXW to put myself out there a little bit. Not a huge priority so we shall see.
Telling your kids will be a rough family moment. I still remember when we did it and our kids crying and all of us hugging. I remember when we sat them down my oldest thought we were going to tell them what our vacation plans where. It impacted my 6 yr old more than my 8 yr old and while I hate that we are no longer a family they are happy and well adjusted so I know that is most important.
Ah yes, the newbies. What an awful time in my life and there is nothing you can do to take away the pain. All you want is some answers and most of us will never get them. I remember clinging on to every word, every interaction and you/ACC were right it was about the loss of control. I was a pretty strict DBer and while it didn't save my MR I know it saved me and helped me heal/detach etc. in a more timely manner. Sometimes I feel like this place is the Walking Dead and they just keep coming. I have had to step away for a while because it becomes too depressing at times.
I am happy for you that your feeling good and looking forward to your new life. I bet you are feeling some relief and hopefully excitement as you move on to your next adventure. You have made tremendous progress yourself my friend and should proud of yourself and how far you have come. Life is a journey full of twists and turns, ups and downs, good times and bad times and this to shall pass.
So what did you decide about letting your W stay in the house? any timeline?
Head up J9 you are going to do great for your children
Thanks BH....sometimes I wonder if I am doing the right thing. Like just one time go off on my W, yell, scream and tell her all the things that I have had to process and deal with until now. It would be all about me but sometimes I just get wore down taking the high road, being the better man, etc. etc. etc. Let her know how unacceptable this is, to not even want to work on things, how you could be so selfish, yada, yada, yada. Sometimes I feel like I have made this process so easy for her and does she really understand how lucky she is and what kind of person she is walking away from.
I know I am venting but at times I still struggle.
So what did you decide about letting your W stay in the house? any timeline?
Still undecided. Have to wait until I can at least legally kick her out lol! My friend told me his W said my W said she will probably be here until July.
Not sure I can do another 5 months.
Pros:
Good for kids
No child support
Shared expenses
She still cleans like a freak
Cons:
Have to deal with her mood swings
Can't date
Feel trapped some days
I am in a really good place and ready to move forward. I am hoping she finds a house so I don't have to send her packing. I'll take it day by day.
Like just one time go off on my W, yell, scream and tell her all the things that I have had to process and deal with until now. It would be all about me but sometimes I just get wore down taking the high road, being the better man, etc. etc. etc. Let her know how unacceptable this is, to not even want to work on things, how you could be so selfish, yada, yada, yada.
AMEN to that bro! Taking the high road is effin' lonely and no one is going to pat you on the back and give you any medals. [censored].
Head up J9 you are going to do great for your children
Thanks BH....sometimes I wonder if I am doing the right thing. Like just one time go off on my W, yell, scream and tell her all the things that I have had to process and deal with until now. It would be all about me but sometimes I just get wore down taking the high road, being the better man, etc. etc. etc. Let her know how unacceptable this is, to not even want to work on things, how you could be so selfish, yada, yada, yada. Sometimes I feel like I have made this process so easy for her and does she really understand how lucky she is and what kind of person she is walking away from.
I know I am venting but at times I still struggle.
J9, don't do it, you are in a much better place now.
LH - Tough call either way and after 2.5 years you finally are seeing light at the end of the tunnel and it gets delayed....uggh. Tough call with the kids day by day is prob best.
M - Sometimes I just want to Rage Against The Machine!
[quote] Let her know how unacceptable this is, to not even want to work on things, how you could be so selfish, yada, yada, yada. Sometimes I feel like I have made this process so easy for her and does she really understand how lucky she is and what kind of person she is walking away from.
If you did this what would you accomplish? What is your end result?
What if she said your'e right I am being selfish. I don't want to be married to you anymore but I will do it for you and the kids. Would you agree to that proposition?
If you did this what would you accomplish? What is your end result?
It might make me feel better for about 5 min then I would regret doing it. It wouldn't accomplish anything and the end result would be the same.
What if she said your'e right I am being selfish. I don't want to be married to you anymore but I will do it for you and the kids. Would you agree to that proposition?
No that would suck.
Ah yes, the newbies. What an awful time in my life and there is nothing you can do to take away the pain. All you want is some answers and most of us will never get them. I remember clinging on to every word, every interaction and you/ACC were right it was about the loss of control. I was a pretty strict DBer and while it didn't save my MR I know it saved me and helped me heal/detach etc. in a more timely manner. Sometimes I feel like this place is the Walking Dead and they just keep coming. I have had to step away for a while because it becomes too depressing at times.
I can relate to this. The newbies are looking for hope, and I find it hard to give any right now.
I wonder what percentage of D's the LBS/WAS dynamic applies to? Like for us, all WAS's seem to be the same and follow a script. Are all LBS's the same? Do we have a script?
Haha we sure do!
1. Begging, pleading, grovelling / asking for second chance
2. Becoming super-parent and super-partner
3. Trying to increase physical affection and say nice complimentary things
4. Giving forgiveness pre-emptively hoping it would keep them in the MR
5. Becoming a doormat and wanting the bleeding to stop and so doing whatever it takes to keep them in the MR
I am sure there's tons more.
Today I will commit myself to detachment. I will allow myself and those around me the freedom to be as they are. I will not rigidly impose my idea of how things should be. I will not force solutions on problems, thereby creating new problems. I will participate in everything with detached involvement.
Today I will factor in uncertainty as an essential ingredient of my experience. In my willingness to accept uncertainty, solutions will spontaneously emerge out of the problem, out of the confusion, disorder, and chaos. The more uncertain things seem to be, the more secure I will feel, because uncertainty is my path to freedom. Through the wisdom of uncertainty, I will find my security.
I will step into the field of all possibilities and anticipate the excitement that can occur when I remain open to infinity of choices. When I step into the field of all possibilities, I will experience all the fun, adventure, magic, and mystery of life.
Haha we sure do!
1. Begging, pleading, grovelling / asking for second chance
2. Becoming super-parent and super-partner
3. Trying to increase physical affection and say nice complimentary things
4. Giving forgiveness pre-emptively hoping it would keep them in the MR
5. Becoming a doormat and wanting the bleeding to stop and so doing whatever it takes to keep them in the MR
I am sure there's tons more.
I know I mostly followed that script. But then comes Act II.
1. After uncurling from the fetal position, the realization you are going to live through this.
2. Doing the things YOU want to do, because you missed doing them.
3. Beginning to detach.
4. Growing enough to realize that yes, you were not the perfect spouse, but neither were they.
5. Realization that your spouse was a fool to leave you, and you are going to kick life's a$$ from here on out.
I know I mostly followed that script. But then comes Act II.
1. After uncurling from the fetal position, the realization you are going to live through this.
2. Doing the things YOU want to do, because you missed doing them.
3. Beginning to detach.
4. Growing enough to realize that yes, you were not the perfect spouse, but neither were they.
5. Realization that your spouse was a fool to leave you, and you are going to kick life's a$$ from here on out.
Yeahh!! That's what it's all about.
Happines comes with us J9. You know you can look it inside. And you´ll find it. Take into account what you´ve got. You are a great father, enjoy your kids...enjoy your life. Keep detaching, keep walking.
Thanks N...will do and I appreciate the kind words. The pain is not nearly as intense as it was at BD but now that we are moving forward I find those old emotions coming up again and I am trying real hard to bat them back down so I can remain strong.
We get use to those feelings. We are always longing for past times or thinking about lots of what if...
It´s all about feelings, it´s all memories, our minds work that way. We can´t get rid of them and we should not do that anyway. It is our history, and nothing can change that. But it is our past also. And we live the present...
Stay strong, keep walking (((J9)))
The pain is not nearly as intense as it was at BD but now that we are moving forward I find those old emotions coming up again and I am trying real hard to bat them back down so I can remain strong.
J,
I heard a great podcast this morning that relates to what your feeling.
You are projecting the idea of having a happy family and relationship with you wife. That is not the reality and that is causing you to suffer.
Like Ayn Rand said " We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality".
Good stuff guys, I agree I need to live in the present and stop my mind from wondering around in the past. I think it is going there because we are moving forward.
I just got back from our A's office. We went over everything that we agreed to on, I signed some papers that acknowledge the D so I wont be served and then we walked over to the court house to file the paperwork. Now it is up to our A to do her thing and wait for the 60 day window to expire.
So baring a miricle I should be officially D around the end of April!
I must say it was easier than I expected. I was happy, confident, didn't sulk, cry, wasn't angry, etc. The conversation was very light and lose, I even joked around some. Our R never came up, there was never a moment of weakness on part or hers about wanting to talk about us. Very non-emotional.
After it was over with she said "Thank you" for being you. I told her your welcome, asked her if she wanted to get some lunch, she declined said she wanted to go home and sleep. I said ok cool and off I went.
I find it pretty satisfying that she "Thanked me" for being me. Which hopefully gives you all some insight on who I am as a person. It also confirms to me that she knows what/who is walking away from and she is good with it. Truthfully I just don't think she could handle being a full time mom and wife any more.
Since my W and I have agreed on everything this should be a very smooth and easy process. I will be keeping the house and we will have joint/equal custody of our children with them alternating weeks between the both of us.
I feel good and am ready for this to be final.
J9, congrats on surviving that! Sounds like an excellent outcome - almost exactly what my XW and I agreed on. I'm glad this wasn't contentious for you.
I find it pretty satisfying that she "Thanked me" for being me. Which hopefully gives you all some insight on who I am as a person. It also confirms to me that she knows what/who is walking away from and she is good with it. Truthfully I just don't think she could handle being a full time mom and wife any more.
Keeping your sense of self through this whole process - quite an achievement. It's certainly not easy, and you did much better than me.
High five!
Thanks H.....being sep sure made it easier. I am happy with myself and conducted myself with integrity. When she thanked me a new I did things right, it just never made a difference.
Ok all you D experts......I need to refi my house and give her half the equity. Does it matter when I do it? Is there any reason to delay the process? The D won't be finalized until April.
I thought about giving her more of the 401 but she wants cash on hand and I think if she took out cash from the 401 before it got transferred she wouldn't have to pay the 10% penalty but would still have to pay 20% in taxes which I would have to compensate her for since she wouldn't get taxed on her equity proceeds.
Other than that I am doing good!
You are in luck my friend because I just refinanced last night. Look into a home equity loan because of the lower interest rates and closing costs. As long as it is cool with her you can do it whenever because she will have to sign agreeing to taker her name off the mortgage.
Last night I said to myself "this castle is all mine and I can do anything I want to it". Big screen TV and mini bar is going in the living room.
LOL....ok cool thanks man. Sent my mortgage guy an email.
MAN CAVE!!
Hi all...started the refi process so hopefully it will go smooth. Have my D's this week so we have a daddy/daughter dance to go to at church tomorrow night for Valentines Day and they have soccer practices and games this week as well. The Spring season starts this week and is one of my favorite times of the year.
I have a bad case of tendonitis in my L elbow from lifting weights so I was restricted to just cardio this morning at the gym. Hopefully it feels good enough to play basketball tomorrow.
Not much else to report....feeling good and ready to get this D over with.
Had some time with the W on Saturday. She now refers to me as the girls Dad and we started the process of separating their clothes so we don't have to lug suitcases back and forth every week. She is not occupying much of my head space these days and I don't have much emotion in me when I see her. There is total relaxation when I am around her.
I have noticed that through the D process she stills defers to me for a lot of things. Financial stuff, car stuff, what to do with certain things like the money she will get from equity in the house, etc. It just reaffirms to me that there is no OM and this is really more about her than me as a H or father. She sent me a bunch of pictures on Saturday night of the girls have a sleepover with their friends at her apartment which I thought was cool. I do know that she will be a good co-parent and she has been respectful to me through this process.
Anyway, all for now.
Good update, J9!
You've really done a bang-up job of getting through this.
Thanks H.....it has definitely been a process but I feel myself moving from the "acting as if" to the really feeling it stage.
Being separated for the past 8 months and her moving out at BD also helped but I know I could have made things worse by chasing, pursuing, checking up on her, etc. Now it just feels like a formality.
I will still probably feel some emotion in court the day the D is final and I know I am going to be bothered when my kids meet some OM or when I see her with OM for the first time. I need to figure this out. As 25 always said though, don't borrow problems from the future so I just try to stay in the present.
H....the only other thing that is weird about all this is the R between my W and I. Totally amicable, no hard feelings on either side, she knows I have her best interests in mind, knows that I am not trying to take advantage, etc. She has trusted every financial number I have provided to her and has agreed to everything I have suggested.
The part that makes me sad is that we are set up so perfectly to work on this but she wants no part of it. That to me is so frustrating and tragic.
GM all....I hope everyone survived Valentines Day, I know it can be rough.
Took my D's to the daddy/daughter dance on Tuesday night. They had a blast. There was a former New York City Rocket that taught all the dads some dance moves and the girls loved it. We got our pictures taken and at the end of the evening each girl got a rose. They were so excited and it will definitely be a new tradition that I will do with them every year.
Last night we went out to dinner with some friends so it was pretty low key. They had Valentines Day parties at school so they were pretty tired at the end of the evening. I got up this morning and played basketball so that was fun.
On D news our court date has been set for April 11th. The W and will show up, submit our paperwork for the judge to sign and it should be official. Not much emotion wrapped around it for me. My W's birthday is 4/23 so I sent her an email saying that we should have it moved to her birthday so we could celebrate. I can't remember what she responded with but I got a chuckle out of it.
The re-fi process has been started, just waiting to hear back from the mortgage dude on next steps. We are swapping cars as well this weekend. She will get the car I am currently driving in the D so I took it yesterday and got the oil changed on it and a new battery put in it for her. I know not my responsibility but I am walking away with my head held high and my integrity in tact.
Other than that things are good. D's have soccer practice's tonight and games on Saturday. Spring break is coming up for us in about a month so I am trying to think of some things to do with the girls since it is my week and I am taking off to be home with them.
J9, you are killing it through the D process!
Thanks HS........I am trying! I didn't ask for this or want it but I am determined to only show her strength and confidence through this process. I will not beg, plead, gravel or send her some letter out of desperation apologizing for things. I will be a great co-parent and conduct myself with integrity.
She is a fool.
Ha ha...thanks V, I know what I bring and how I have changed so I would like to think so. Have had a good weekend so far. Hit the gym yesterday and today, took my girls shopping yesterday for some new school clothes and new swimming suits and hit church this morning. The girls are currently at choir practice and we are going over to a friends house tonight for dinner.
It rained and has been kind of dreary all weekend so their soccer games where cancelled Sat which was a bummer. My youngest had her last basketball game as well and they won so that was cool. She also scored 4 of the teams 8 pats
.
Texted with the W a couple of times on kid stuff but nothing major. Back to work tomorrow and she has then this week so it will be nice to have some time off.
Me and another D dad are going to take our kids camping for two nights over Spring Break so that will be a great time. The W and I also got their clothes separated between our places so reduce the amount of bags we have to take back and forth so that will be easier. Time is going by pretty fast and our D should be final pretty soon.
I am still feeling really good, looking forward to the next chapter and ready to get this thing over with.
I'm glad things seem to be going smoothly for you. I know it probably doesn't feel "smooth" in the moment, but it sounds like you are doing well.
Hey Jim.....thanks! TBH......it feels very smooth
Just keep walking J9. Be proud of your journey and being amoafwl. Time is on your side. Keep walking.
Thanks N......I am happy with myself and my confidence is really strong. I still have some weak moments from time to time and thoughts of my STBXW flare up but they are getting less and less. Walking is becoming a lot easier. I had dinner at a friends house last night and they asked if I had thought about starting to date yet. I told them I have had those thoughts but at minimum I wanted to wait until the D was final and even when it is I still don't think I am quite ready yet.
I will admit that I am finding it slightly challenging to completely let go but I think that has more to do with me and fulfilling my vows until the end. For example, we are trading cars tonight so I got the one I am driving serviced for her so she wouldn't have to mess with it for a while. I know probably not my responsibility but I find myself doing things like that so when the D is final I can walk away with my head held high. I do it for me, not necessarily for her but I still possess those husband instincts. I am hoping that once the D is final something will click in my brain that will allow me to say that my journey is complete.
Joseph9,
I understand when you say you do it for yourself. Because at the end we are the better person I have also been ask those questions why am I still nice, or I told W if she needed my truck on snow days is hers. I honestly didn't do it for her to see we she get back together I did it because this is me I will give my shirt to someone who needs it. One thing I told myself was I won't let W change me to be a bitter person or hateful I will keep being me. The person I know I am.
I agree, I wanted to stay true to myself throughout this entire process and I believe I have done that. She has only seen strength, confidence and someone that will not waiver.
TBH the next 2 months can't go by quick enough.
J9 someone said the following statement to me which really stuck in my head... "Getting D'ed is going to open up some amazing $hit" I believe this applies to you.
Do you even know how much you helped other people on this board... prob not, but you have.
BH....thank you for the kind words. You never know who reads and follow ups on your sitch's but hopefully I have been able to pay it back and inspire some others.
I am excited for what the future holds, I really believe the next half of my life is going to be awesome and I am going to find an amazing partner to share it with. That makes me really smile!
The crazy thing is that I don't see the same excitement from my STBXW. She was more excited when she first moved out than what she is showing now. I assume that when she moved out that was really when the D happened in her eyes so now that initial rush no longer exists. If that is the case then she has fallen into the same patterns as she did before with her moodiness, depression and really never knowing what person your going to get day to day. Which is the same stuff she has battled for a long time.
She had a real crappy childhood and unfortunately it is rearing it's ugly head later in life. I have empathy and compassion for her and really wish her nothing but the best.
I just have to journal this as my ice princess W just called me baby. I about fell out. We were doing vehicle swap and I had a coupon for the car wash that I was handing her and she said.....I didn’t wash this one why don’t you keep it baby.......she looked at me and said oh that was awkward and I said yeah a little bit and then The subject got changed.
I mean 8 months of ice princess and she calls me that in her normal tone of voice that I am used to for the past 17 years.
Anyways I got chuckle
Don't get swayed by her calling you baby. It means nothing. She will soon revert back to the ice queen. Just you watch. Do not mistake this for any kind of a good sigh. It is not. She still has waaays to go. She is not baked yet, not nearly.
As to her enthusiasm when moving out, again you are using yourself as the cause. You are not the cause. The simple fact is that she has been holding you responsible for her unhappiness for so long that when she decided to move out, she thought that now that you are out of the picture, everything will be aces. Well her rose colored glasses shattered some and she is beginning to realize that it is not the case. Her divorced life is not going to be all roses and champagne and frankly I think it scares her something awful. She has yet to wrap her brain against it all.
Food for thoughts...
V
Just let it go J9...for your own sake. CaliGuy wrote: "At some point one either let's go of the rope ... or they continue to be dragged, MLC was definitely a lesson in getting dragged."
It is very hard to avoid seeing sun rays everywhere...time will tell. Just keep walking.
Bro... at this point you are doing what you stand for and what your values are. You are not pursuing or having any expectations. I totally second what you did with the car because you are a stand up dude and you don't act out of anger or resentment. You are strong and caring and kind to people. You have shown that kindness to your W despite everything and that to me is standing tall.
She is a total fool for leaving you. D will open up a lot of new opportunities for you and I am excited for you. Ladies are going to come knockin' J... be ready.... who doesn't want a man that has worked on himself and is self-aware and strong.
As I have always said, I am just a few months behind in you in everything. With the quick interaction I had with my W, she is still in her cloudy mindset and so I know that nothing I have done has moved the needle for her. But it has moved the needle for me so that's what counts.
I am super proud of you man. You've carried yourself well. I hope I can do that when the time comes.
Carry on bro!!! Life is just opening up a new chapter.
V and N....definitely not reading into anything I just thought it was funny that she slipped up. I don't think she is as strong as she leads on to believe IMO. I also agree she has not marinated long enough yet and her journey is not complete. Only time will tell.
I played basketball for almost 2 hours this morning so I feel great and the walking continues
M......thanks for the kind words. I even set up her Bluetooth for her in the car as well
I have no doubt you will carry yourself in the same manner. You will do it for yourself and your children. TBH it is quite easy and comes very natural to me. Focus on yourself and those kids, conduct yourself in a manner that will make you and them proud. You can't go wrong no matter how it turns out.
You never know what will happen but start to realize, understand and accept that more than likely your MR is over. I know when my W told me she was ready I had that pit in my stomach for about 10 seconds then it was gone. From that moment on I have been full-steam ahead to make the appropriate arrangements. We swapped cars last night and today after work I am dropping off all the required paperwork to my mortgage guy to refi the house.
If this is what she wants then this is what she is going to get.
You will be just fine. It is very hard to completely detach when your in limbo. Once you hear those words though the last shred of hope you had is gone and your detachment meter shoots through the roof! I think your finances tripped you up a bit but I know plenty of people that are extremely happy that are not financially secure. Money may make some things easier but it doesn't buy happiness. IMO it is all relative.
So keep doing you, validate yourself, learn what your non-negotiables are, be calm, deliberate and be the gosh darn Rock of Gibalter!
Joseph, you're an inspiration, not only in how well you're handling this storm, but in showing the rest of us the way forward, and doing it with class.
Thanks Jim for the kind words! In some respects I have had it easier than others with no confirmed OM and no in-house separation. My W has also not been over the top disrespectful towards me with spew. However right after she moved out I do know that she was flirting with another guy (it probably went farther but who knows) and while she never spewed I could see the anger and resentment in her eyes. So I have had to deal with some of that stuff maybe just not to the full extent others have.
I still would rather not be in this position and have experienced the pain but pain is a part of life. It helps us grow so for that I am grateful and I do believe this is happening for a reason (although I don't know what that is yet
).
I also know that this is more about my W than it is about me. I don't take it personally and I refuse to let this one person have so much control over me and my emotions. My STBXW is someone that I will always love as the mother of my children but I will not grant her the ability to control my emotions, how I feel or interact with her. I will stay true to myself and my values.
I am in a really good place, happy with who I am as a person, confident in my skills and abilities as a father/partner and ready for what life has in store.
Our stories are similar in some respects, no OM, no over the top disrespect, resentment on her part, someone I will always love.
I am not doing as well as you are though, in the distancing aspect, although I'm getting better. I think the in house separation may have had a lot to do with that, although only so much, because she's still been gone a while.
You help me remember what the possibilities are out there.
Hang in there Jim......everyone handles and processes things differently. Don't be too hard on yourself.
What do you think you are struggling the most with?
I still would rather not be in this position and have experienced the pain but pain is a part of life. It helps us grow so for that I am grateful and I do believe this is happening for a reason (although I don't know what that is yet
).
There is your reason. GROWTH! You nailed it, buddy...
I looked in to a boon called Radical Forgiveness. The concept is that what is happening now is about something else. There is a another story underneath this one. And the pain we feel is about something else. There is this original pain that needs to be healed. I've also read from another source that in marriage crisis only 10% is about things happening now and 90% is about something totally different.
I looked in to a boon called Radical Forgiveness. The concept is that what is happening now is about something else. There is a another story underneath this one. And the pain we feel is about something else. There is this original pain that needs to be healed. I've also read from another source that in marriage crisis only 10% is about things happening now and 90% is about something totally different.
Were there examples given? That's an interesting concept and Id love more details on it.
The book opens up with an powerful example. I haven't read it through yet. You might also want to check the website.
Have you ever heard about Bert Hellinger family constellations?
I come from a scientific background but my IC insisted to take a look. It was the door to connect to my hidden past. After that my scientific mind evolved to a more scientific- spiritual one. It is very difficult to explain in few sentences. Add that english is not my native language...it is hard to explain. Just google it, it is worthy.
The book opens up with an powerful example. I haven't read it through yet. You might also want to check the website.
I've also read from another source that in marriage crisis only 10% is about things happening now and 90% is about something totally different.
That's the part I was most interested in.
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