Hi, first post here after reading as much as I can on DBing, WW and MLC. Let me start with some background.
W (41) and I (39) have been together 16y married for 9y. We have two sons, S7 and S11.
My W made contact with OW last March. I began to suspect something around September and got the BD beginning of December after confronting her with a text message on her phone between them. She made the usual claims of they understand each other etc. Although EA they have met and kissed, but nothing more that I'm aware of.
Before finding this site, I've been unsuccessful in trying too many things to get us back on track. I've pleaded with her, tried to reason with her, mentioned D, said how it will affect the kids all to no avail. I asked her to end the A and do NC. She wasn't showing any signs of remorse and did the ILYBNILWY, but said she would distance herself from her on her own terms.
She resumed the A two weeks later and I found out again beginning of January. Two weeks ago, we started in house separation and I set about DBing, 180ing and GAL. I offered that I would be happy if they remained friends (this is my nice guy\passive side). This hasn't gone to plan though as she's continuing to see the OW to work out if it's for her. To me that's having her cake and eating it and I'm at a loss as to what to do next.
I thought it might be an MLC for two main reasons, my wife's age and the OW is twenty something (something you might expect of a H MLC). If it is an MLC then she is very much stuck in the Replay stage and it would seem I'm powerless to do anything to help her.
This very much feels like I'm stuck on a roller-coaster that I didn't want to get on.
Thank you for reading.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Lots of great reading material and advice in that post, thanks Cadet.
Thought I'd add some additional background:
For the last 8 years my wife has been in some form of education, in order to get onto a university degree course (UK). She's been on that course full time, for the last 3 years. The end goal is to get a much better career. In all that time I've supported her, I am the main breadwinner and have kept the house running and all that entails with two children.
This is where the MLC part has come as a surprise as I thought that course\goal would have given her purpose in life. I guess it doesn't help that she is the oldest in the class, with the rest of them being in their early twenties.
With the OW, she has never admitted that is anything more than friendship, although she has said she has feelings for her. She wants to explore those feelings in her own time.
This is what I'm struggling with. Do I let her continue on this path and sort myself out or try and set a boundary that I will not stand for a 3rd party in the M?
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
So wrt to A, if I'm GAL should I be bothered if it continues? I have a feeling that it wouldn't amount to anything, but can't stand it when they are together. Would working on detachment help with this?
Think I'm going round in circles with this one... I've been reading Sandi's excellent threads on WW. Think I read something about not standing for the WW who is still in A with OP.
What's the best approach to this when we're living in the same house. She can't move out as she's a student and I'm not going to leave.
It's hard to think straight when in this unwanted situation, but this forum is an excellent resource.
Thought I'd provide an update as this last week went a bit sour.
I backslid quite badly, but could've been worse under the circumstances. The week before I had discussed with W that I was open to her being friends with OW. She was happy about this and said she respected me for it. Since then we'd had a few good chats about our future goals and she seemed a lot happier.
A couple of days later she mentioned she had messaged the OW and that they'd agreed to meet up soon. No problem from me at that point.
Thursday got a bit interesting as W had a day off and said she was going to the library all day to study. This in itself sounds entirely plausible. However, don't believe anything of what they say and half of what they do. She's late home, I put it out of my mind for now as we have an event to go to watch our son with his school. She's distant and moody.
Friday she's at university all day, I get a message before she leaves saying that she's been invited to an event by OW and would I mind if she goes and stays over. I remain calm and agree, I can't control her after all. My W has to travel 70 miles to get to the OW and the event. She keeps telling me to not worry, it's just a night out. At this point my emotions are not where they should be and I've started creating scenarios in my head about what they're up to.
Snooping is the worst thing I could've done. Especially when I found a pair of stockings and a 2nd phone in her hand bag. I also found a lingerie packaging hidden in the wardrobe. It certainly wasn't for my benefit. This obviously made me think that friendship wasn't really on her mind. Cue a sleepless night, mind working overtime.
The next day she's texts saying she enjoyed the event (vintage dancing - not something she's done before). Say's she'll be going out with the family of the OW and will be back by lunchtime.
She gets back around 4:30pm by then I'm steaming, but I try and keep a lid on it. Not the easiest thing to do. But I ask her how it went. It deteriorates rapidly as I ask about the stockings, phone and lingerie. I get an unpolite 'f$%k off' in return, she is understandably angry that I went through her stuff. She said that she didn't go for friendship and misunderstood what I said about that. She repeated that she has these feelings for the OW and needs to see her to see if it would work out. She assures me that nothing has happened. They have met on 8 occasions that I'm aware of, possibly 1 or 2 other times I don't know about. She seems to be stalling and I'm very much plan b.
They seem to have met every two weeks since the end of November, mostly on Thursday\Friday. I know we shouldn't obsess about the OP, but it's on Instagram that I've seen pictures of the two of them together or places they've been together. The OW is a narcissist, nearly every picture is of herself with some clever caption. She's blocked me (I know I should reciprocate).
We haven't really talked since (3 days now). I've made an increased effort to implement Sandi's guidelines. I haven't initiated any conversation or text. When she texts I respond with a one liner. Like yesterday she said 'I'm having a Sh%# day to be fair' to which I responded 'I'm sorry to hear that'.
I'm hopefully on the right track. The hardest thing is to keep a PMA during all this.
My W seems to have turned into some kind of monster... How would you react to this? She comes home after a long day, immediately on the defensive. I'm trying to remain calm, for some reason she sees that as giving her attitude, saying that if I carry on like the last couple of days (180ing) it will make her decision easier! I don't respond and leave the room.
Hopefully someone will be along soon to give me some much needed advice.
I think you are on the right track with what you are doing.
Nothing you say is going to change the situation.
If you really feel that you must say something - tell her
you will not be in a relationship with her while she is in one with someone else.
Do not expect her to greet this with enthusiasm though.
Do I understand correctly that your W is having an A with another WOMEN? Regardless of an OM or OW, I do not think a LBS should tolerate an ongoing A that he knows about. I agree with others on here who say tolerating the A shows great weakness, which makes the LBS even more unattractive in the eyes of the WAW.
You could ask her to leave the house as long as the A is ongoing. I don't recommend you leaving, but that depends on your sitch. Especially since you have kids.
Definitely put into practice Sandi's 37 rules. You already know she is having an A so you can stop snooping.
Read up on boundaries and start setting some.
I'm as surprised as you FastCars. The OW is androgynous, and looks like a female version of myself, bit taller. W hasn't expressed these feelings before and is confused about them. I can see she's got herself into a situation and doesn't know which way to go. Not helped by the thick fog she is in.
This isn't the first time she's said that if I push her it will make her decision easier. Last time it was when I asked her to end the A and do NC. She said that I was controlling her and she didn't agree to any transparency, in fact doubled down on her evasiveness, sleeping with her phone and changing passwords.
She's just apologized now but said she doesn't like the new me. Is that just her rebelling and I should go full steam ahead with those rules?
Normally I would say keep following Sandi's rules, and also to identify things in the marriage that she may have not liked or were problems and then do 180's on those. A WAS will often be angry that the LBS is changing and hence the anger about the new you.
I think the apology is good, and a positive step.
However, if your W is with an OW, I think there are other deeper issues beyond unhappiness with the marriage. This tells me she is confused about her gender or sexual orientation, which has nothing to do with the marriage.
I'm currently reading the DB book, on the do what works section (chapter 4). Makes a lot of sense.
To add to my reasons of leaning toward MLC, W was very close to her mum, who brought her up as a single parent. She passed away 5 years ago, followed by her estranged father a year later. She is still grieving and has said how alone she feels. I have tried my best to support her during this time.
In our chats about these feelings, she has said she doesn't want to be labelled as lesbian or bisexual. She said she has had a void for some time and that the OW fills those needs emotionally.
Yesterday she did text that she was having a hard time and that she doesn't need to be rushed by me or (OW).
This is positive is some ways as I believe the A is on fragile ground. I just need to do the right thing in order for her to come back to me. That might be wishful thinking though.
The roller coaster rolls on!
I'm currently reading the DB book, on the do what works section (chapter 4). Makes a lot of sense.
To add to my reasons of leaning toward MLC, W was very close to her mum, who brought her up as a single parent. She passed away 5 years ago, followed by her estranged father a year later. She is still grieving and has said how alone she feels. I have tried my best to support her during this time.
In our chats about these feelings, she has said she doesn't want to be labelled as lesbian or bisexual. She said she has had a void for some time and that the OW fills those needs emotionally.
Yesterday she did text that she was having a hard time and that she doesn't need to be rushed by me or (OW).
This is positive is some ways as I believe the A is on fragile ground. I just need to do the right thing in order for her to come back to me.
My suggestion right this minute until you finish reading DB - DO NOTHING
I appreciate that Cadet. I'm looking forward to learning something from the next few chapters.
Further more - I would also suggest that before you take any action you post about it here and get comments to see what others think.
Remember that sometimes DOING NOTHING is really DOING SOMETHING.
SO even though you think you must take action - sometimes an ACTION is to do nothing.
We had a calm(er) chat tonight that she initiated. It was difficult to remain so when she was asking to meet with OW. I really don't know what to do here, if I refuse, I'd be controlling her. If I let her, I'd be condoning it. Rock and hard place.
Any suggestions?
LET GO, you are not going to stop her.
Just stop having a relationship with her when she is
breaking your boundary.
Looks like we're on the same page, was just thinking I have to let her go. How should that manifest itself when she's asking to go? Should I try to be indifferent?
Looks like we're on the same page, was just thinking I have to let her go. How should that manifest itself when she's asking to go? Should I try to be indifferent?
She is asking for your permission?
I guess I would just re-state my boundary and leave it at that.
She's seeing that as not letting her work this out. She's let me know that the OW has a lot to live up to (in comparison to me) and that she's worried she would be heart broken by her at some point down the line.
Thinking more about this I'm leaning toward letting her go and do this by herself. I love her very dearly and it will be hard, but I think it would work out in the end.
Struggling today. This GAL is easier said than done. I guess it is early days still, being only 9 weeks into this.
It's hard to see what W has become. She seems to be addicted to her phone and drinking too much. I barely see her at all in the evenings.
Last Sunday I was in a great mood, until she said that she was planning to go to a Pride event in August with OW. I have no issues with the event, but did take issue that they were planning things together so far ahead. I said I was hoping this would be resolved before then, to which she responded that I was rushing her.
No more R chat for a week. We were out together with the boys in a restaurant. She decided it would be a good time to tell me that she was planning to take a trip to Amsterdam after her course finishes in April. It's somewhere we've both been to before a couple of times. She was asking if I didn't mind, she was being quite evasive but eventually said it would be with OW.
When we got home she could see it was bothering me and said she thought it would be a good idea to ask in a public place so I wouldn't overreact. Now this is something that I have never done in the 16 years we've been together. So not sure where she got this idea from. She had also mentioned the trip last year, so I knew it was on her mind.
She went on to say there is never a good time to mention these plans. To which I said "tell me on Thursdays". She then said it would be too late to mention that she will be seeing the OW on Saturday next week. Which just happens to be our 9th wedding anniversary. She had forgotten when it was.
I feel like giving up on this.
Hey DblDown,
Just caught up on your sitch. First things first:
WHY ARE YOU TALKING TO HER ABOUT OW????????
That is completely male beta behavior.
Are you okay living in an open marriage?
If yes, then continue.
But if no, then lay down some boundaries, which definitely includes that she does not get to talk to you about OW.
What is your GAL? What are you doing for yourself?
All I am seeing is serious disrespect towards you. Stop being a doormat. Stop being a NICE GUY. Look up Nice Guy Syndrome.
You can give up on the MR, that's fine, but don't give up on yourself. Get your ball$ back ASAP!
Until you do that, nothing is going to change.
Thanks Maika, that is just the pep talk I needed!
I text her last night (wasn't going to talk as she was drinking) that I'm not willing to be in an open marriage. I do not want to hear any details about OW or any plans you have made. If after you have qualified and are working, and the A is continuing then you should move out as soon as possible.
I've got to say I slept well after sending that.
I'm not sure she did as she wasn't happy this morning. Her response was that she isn't in an open marriage as she isn't in a relationship with me. I maybe shouldn't have responded with 'what are you still doing here then?'.
As for GAL, I've been working out, although this hasn't been consistent. I'm reading more and listening to more music. I got the boys a drum kit at xmas, so have been rekindling my interest in that. I have a bike, so intend on getting out more on it.
I have a few friends that are local, but we don't see each other as often as we should, so something to work on there.
I have realised that this is an opportunity for me but it is hard when you thought you had a future together with someone but they are now, not the person you fell in love with.
Today is proving a little bit difficult. It's our 9th wedding anniversary and she's out with OW. I've had a good day with the boys, but that still doesn't stop you thinking.
I've read on another thread that in house separation doesn't work. I can see why. Detachment is almost impossible when you're both in the same house. I'll have to endure this for a while longer, at least until she finishes her degree. Sigh.
Anyone about today to offer any advice on my sitch? It feels like we've opened a zoo there are so many elephants in the room since yesterday!
So I said last week that if the A continues after W graduates\starts working (which it looks like it will be), that W should move out.
W said that she would not move out of her home. I've already said that I haven't done anything wrong so why should I move out.
How do you get past this stalemate??
And still struggling... this constant state of limbo is taking it's toll. Sleeping alone I only have my thoughts for company and they're invariably negative. I often have a word with myself to turn the tide but it's short lived. I know it will get better with time, but it's hard to see a light at the end of it all when you're entrenched.
I found out yesterday that the OW is 23. This affected me badly as I could see how deep in the fog W is and how can I sit idly by and watch her make the biggest mistake of her life.
W said to me that she is going to cinema tomorrow with her university friends. This is an obvious lie. It's valentines and she's never been out with them before. She's also seeing OW on Sunday for her birthday.
I think I'm going to have to initiate LRT, but no idea how when she's in the same house and currently, I do nearly everything - cooking, washing, ironing, cleaning, school stuff, feeding the cat etc.
Any advice gratefully received.
Well today is the first day of Lent. First time for me to try and give something up, so why not start with stop worrying about this R. I'm going to try LRT, 40 days is a reasonable goal.
If I can get through today it will be something, especially as I know they're together on Valentine's Day.
As always, any advice would be greatly recieved.
I think I'm going to have to initiate LRT, but no idea how when she's in the same house and currently, I do nearly everything - cooking, washing, ironing, cleaning, school stuff, feeding the cat etc.
As you will see here, in-house separations don't really work. I was personally in one for a couplea months and it was emotional hell. Some folks here have lived through that for much longer and it just didn't work.
So, what can you do if she won't move out and you don't move out?
The answer is to that is - DB like hell. And not for appearance sake or trying to get her to change her mind - nope. You have to stop giving a f%ck what she's doing and what she's thinking and just go live your life.
The most prominent example of this is a board member called TxHubby. When he was done, he DBd and didn't look back. Find his thread and read about what he did. As Sandi has explained, she doesn't consider what TxHubby did as an in-house separation, which is true. He basically walked away from his W and lived his life as if she didn't exist, even while living in the same house.
Having read tons and tons of threads here for months, I personally don't see another approach that would work if you are living under the same roof. You have to really commit to it and follow through. Otherwise it's kinda pointless.
Also, please stop doing everything in the house. You can't nice her back into the MR. Do what you need to do for yourself and let her handle her business. Stop being a house servant.
You've done it again Maika. Just when I was losing hope you have come up trumps! There's gold in your reply and definitely in that thread you linked to. TxHubby's turnaround is inspiring!
I'm 11 weeks into this and only now getting my head around the detachment I need to do. I like the onion reference in that thread, I'm on the first layer.
Yesterday I decided to take off my wedding ring. W had taken hers off weeks ago, and wearing mine was a constant reminder.
I'm also getting more consistent at working out and getting closer to my PBs before all this. I took the boys swimming too, which was really nice.
I hear you on the house servant thing, that is something I'm working on.
On a separate note, GAL related, did you ever get that Harley? That's the exact same bike I've imagined myself getting for a while now, black with a set of Vance & Hines. Now that would be Bad A$$!
Got a quick question. Money matters...
Before BD, W was complaining that she was unhappy with lack of money (being a student). This was on the run up to Christmas, so we had a chat about what she would need to cover her until around March. I transferred 3k to a joint account and she's been using this money since, around half so far.
As the A is continuing, should I take back the remaining money?
I'm sure she will resent me if I do, but hey that's no different to the resentment I'm getting already.
DblDown,
I don't have any advice for you, other than to hang in there.
I'm currently also in something very close to an in house separation.
We still exchange pleasantries and do some activities together, and we still share a bed, but any physical affection is few and far between (occasional hug or cuddle).
Wife has said she doesn't know what she wants, but all indications point to her just biding her time and getting her ducks in a row to leave.
Detachment is SOO hard in this scenario. A little separation would be painful, but it might actually make things easier.
submitted the above post before I meant to.
I'm NOT trying to make your thread about me, I am trying to say there are others in similar "limbo" situations, and we get what agony it is.
As the A is continuing, should I take back the remaining money?
Depends. Are you trying to punish her? What is your end goal for taking the money back?
Double checked and W had used 2k of it, all while the A was in full swing. Just found out they're going to London sat night. I shouldn't care, but I'd rather not be bankrolling it.
I transferred the remaining money earlier.
Reframe, limbo is the worst. From reading other threads, the only way to deal with it is to dump them and move on asap. That way it's on our terms and we avoid the endless hell that is limbo.
Good luck with it!
How are you supposed to deal with this? I think it's something like the pursuit and distance dance. So today is fourth day of barely any contact, zero texts and following the rules to the letter. I take the boys out to the park and we have a great time. She's at home and texts me a song that she thought I might like and signs off with a kiss. Odd, first text for 4 days.
When I get back, she looks upset and asks to chat. There are lots of tears, saying she feels ostracized and that she feels left out with all the stuff I've been doing with the kids (they've had a week off school). She doesn't like the way I'm behaving (not being Mr nice guy/doormat). I don't flinch and she tells me to leave the room. It was hard to see her so upset, but she had this coming, right?
I take it I should continue on the path I've chosen. I'm feeling better about myself and enjoying quality time with the boys! Seems like she was having a pity party, woe is me etc.
DD,
She's not having her way with you and she doesn't like it.
Keep it up.
Thanks LH, I need to stick to this path for my own sanity. Tears at not spending time with the boys, then goes off for the day.
After not seeing her all day yesterday (no idea what time she came home), she asks me this morning how are we going to resolve this. I was in no mood to talk, so we'll pick it up some other time. However, I don't think her definition of resolution will be the same as mine. We shall see...
Riddle me this, how can they go from tears one minute to absolute defiance the next?
Hi all, it's been some time since I last posted, and my situation has changed little.
WW is still seeing the OW and is asking me to wait for her
. This is nearly 18 months since she embarked on this path. Inhouse separation (separate rooms) is ongoing.
I look and feel better than ever and this has not gone unnoticed. WW actions have left me feeling that we have no future together and I want to move on with my life, but she is still torn between OW and I.
I'm not sure what to do next and would gladly welcome some sage advice.
I look and feel better than ever and this has not gone unnoticed. WW actions have left me feeling that we have no future together and I want to move on with my life, but she is still torn between OW and I.
Well DD sounds like being plan B is not working for you anymore. If that's the case it may be time for an ultimatum.
Are you prepared to do that and walk and never look back if you don't get the answer you want?
Are you still communicating with her? Quit. If she doesn't want to work on things what do you really need to talk to her about?
Still doing the in-house separation? Tell her to get out.