Hello Divorce busting forums - I apologize if this is not the correct place for me to be posting this topic but I have found myself a bit desperate in my current situation. Apologies also for the lack of abbreviations as well. I will learn them! It's a long one so be wary before you start reading.
I understand if it is too long to read but I just do not know what else to do.
I'll start by mentioning that this is not the first time my marriage has almost fallen apart and I actually referred to these forums to help get myself on the correct track to fix it and it actually worked! My situation now is much different than it was 4 years ago though. DID ANYONE ELSES MARRIAGE SUFFER GREATLY AFTER THE BIRTH OF THEIR FIRST CHILD?
I'll start off by saying I know that I am not the perfect husband and that me being in this situation is partially my fault as well. Now when we first had the child, things seemed to be going fine. I was working, she was staying at home with the baby and I was helping as much as I could while I was present.
Anyways, we had planned an interstate move about 6 weeks after baby was born, since then I have just been watching our marriage crumble to pieces day after day. My MIL stayed with us for 2 times, both for a month to help with the move and obviously the newborn. During this period I found myself becoming redundant in my own home and it was extremely hard to remain motivated to do anything as I was being constantly corrected, undermined and sometimes blatantly ignored when it came to my opinion in regards to the well being of my child. After weeks of this, I stepped back. My wife noticed and within the blink of an eye I was being told how little I do around the house. I got extremely frustrated and explained to my wife how I always feels like I'm walking on eggshells with her and that she only points out the negative aspects of what I do... I could do 1,000 rights and the one wrong is all I would hear about. I broke me down bit by bit to the point where I (stupidly) told her that it might be beneficial to look into divorce.
On my Birthday (2 days before this argument) she had made a post talking about how she is so excited to spend life with me as the father of her child and now she is telling me that she does not feel we are right for eachother.
My MIL also made a comment outside of my wife's presence saying that she is becoming a helicopter mom and that it will not be good for the baby as she is worried he will grow up sheltered... I told my wife about this conversation and she blatantly told me she didn't believe me that her Mother had said this and if she did she must have been joking... She confronted her mother and low and behold, my MIL tells her she was not being serious when she said it. I had it thrown back in my face and I am willing to bet my entire life savings on the fact that my MIL was not joking when this comment was made. MIL's relationship with my wife has been rocky since I met her and ONLY started getting good so I believe she was back pedalling in fear that her relationship with her daughter will fall apart again... MIL told me that I was the cause for so many arguments between her and her daughter, and when I asked for examples of how I am the cause, I was made to feel like I was manipulating the situation... I asked for examples because that was such a blanket statement that I refused to be her scape goat for any mending she has had to do with her daughter.
I fought so hard to save our marriage last time when there was infidelity from her end and now I don't know if I have the strength to revive it again on top of making sure our little one is completely taken care of. My wife admitted to having Post Natal Depression and has since 180'd on that statement saying that she is not resentful towards our child... only me. So now according to her she doesn't have Post natal depression anymore... Mind you her delivery was very traumatic and the aftercare in the hospital was nothing short of horrifying for her.
Now the predicament that I find myself in is that I've sat her down and explained to her that this family means more than anything to me and that I will not be giving up on maintaining to keep us together... We have been getting along wonderfully! only problem is, it is STRICTLY platonic. Overnight she stopped telling me she loves me, no more contact at all and it is slowly breaking me apart day by day to the point where I don't know if I can take it anymore.
I'm very emotional right now so I'm sure I have left out a few things which I am more than willing to answer if anyone has any advice.
-Quick summary-
Overnight my wife and I are "no longer right for eachother"
She resents me
I don't do enough
MIL blames me for everything wrong with her and daughter's relationship.
Divorce is a very real option.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
DID ANYONE ELSES MARRIAGE SUFFER GREATLY AFTER THE BIRTH OF THEIR FIRST CHILD?
YES - ever hear of postpartum depression?
I have - my wife has admitted to it. Even made a social media post and then 180’d claiming she doesn’t think she has it.... she still takes her medication for it though. As I check on the tablets every so often when taking my anxiety meds.
Now I have to convince my wife somehow that she still has it. Just because one symptom isn’t present doesn’t mean that the other 12 aren’t as well. I know she has it.
Get the book and refresh your memory on what you were doing before. I'm not sure you're dealing with a WAS just yet, sounds more like problems due to the immense stress of having a new baby in the house. I have a couple of suggestions:
1. Do not play MIL and W against each other. If your MIL tells you something in confidence then why in the world would you run and tell your W, that's just going to make them both resent you. Likewise if your W complains about MIL just chalk it up to frustrations from them being around each other so much. If either of them talks to you then validate and offer empathy.
2. Don't view MIL as the enemy! You should be thankful she's there to help out, a new baby is a TON of work. Thank her daily for helping, and instead of sitting around sulking that you've been "replaced", ask MIL and your W daily what you can do to help. If they don't have suggestions then try and come up with ways to help on your own. How many diapers have you changed? 6 weeks in you should be at or close to triple digits by now, if not then you're not helping enough. Don't just let your W or MIL do them all, I am 100% sure that if you offer they will gladly hand the baby over to you for a diaper change.
We have been getting along wonderfully! only problem is, it is STRICTLY platonic. Overnight she stopped telling me she loves me, no more contact at all and it is slowly breaking me apart day by day to the point where I don't know if I can take it anymore.
The first few months are exhausting for a new mother. She probably still has a lot of extra weight from the pregnancy, and she is exhausted all the time from adjusting to caring for a baby. She probably doesn't have the time she used to to get herself looking pretty in the mornings. In short, she does not feel sexy and attractive right now. You might need to be patient, it may be a while before she's in the mood again.
Now I have to convince my wife somehow that she still has it.
WRONG
Exactly what you should not do.
I fought so hard to save our marriage last time when there was infidelity from her end and now I don't know if I have the strength to revive it again on top of making sure our little one is completely taken care of.
X,
I am sorry you are here but you have came to the right place. Post often and there are many people here who can help you.
My first question is how did you handle the infidelity the first time? Did you seek professional counseling?
My next question is if there has already been infidelity in the past is it possible there is again right now?
I am going to give you my opinion on these situations that tends to be a little harsh. You most likely can't make things better right now but you can make them worse by pursuing her, saying I love you, trying to do all the house work etc, etc, etc. What you feel like you should be doing you in all actuality should be doing the opposite. Read Sandi's 37 rules and start following them immediately.
I know you feel very emotional right now but you have to try very hard to get your $hit together. If you are having an emotional moment try hard to do it in private. At this time your W has lost respect from you and being emotional and needy are going to be a big turn off.
What can you do? Start working out 6 days a week by going to the gym, running, crossfit etc. Exercise is the best remedy for feeling down and depressed. Hang out with friends, family, meetup groups whenever you can get out of the house. Take up an old hobby, learn a new skill, take a class. Be mysterious whenever possible.
The key is to give your wife time and space to see if she misses you. She has to chose to want to be with you for it to work long-term.
If you put in the work you will get the results.
Good luck my friend.
Definitely wouldn’t say I ran to tell my wife what my MIL had said. It was weeks after the fact and only because I was explaining when I start noticing certain behaviors from mum W in regards to our son. There was no malice in the least bit when this was brought up, I even explained to the MIL that I had to mention it before my W got to confront her. You really have to understand my W and MIL relationship before now. I have spent years listening to my wife complain about my MIL never being there for her when she needed. Her relationship with her Mother is only now starting to get better and I embrace it.
I do not view my MIL as the enemy and I truthfully know that I pull my weight in regards to my son. The house is always clean by my hands and I look forward to diaper changes whenever I get the chance as I find it to be incredible one on one time with the little guy. We get to play and have fun together while I’m wiping his little bottom haha
also very wrong. I’ve tried to take my child off my MIL after I get home from work and she’s told me point blank that she’s fine to keep holding him. To which I explained “no I don’t think you understand, I want to hold my child. I missed him”.
When I say replaced I can remember a specific moment where my W started talking about a health related issue in regards to my son. The moment I heard this I turned to acknowledge the information and t wasn’t even me she was telling. It was her mother and this was the first time I was hearing of this particular subject. I felt, in the moment, redundant.
I find the platonic approach to be very strange because 2 days before this argument took place we had great intercourse that was initiated by her
All other advice is great and I appreciate you! Thank you for taking the time to offer advice!
I understand this as well. I’m just confused about how she can pursue professional help, get out on meds and then just decide herself that she no longer has PND. Her relationship with her mother has been very toxic in the past and I have suspicion that this thought process may have stemmed from something her mother said. I could be absolutely wrong though and know I shouldn’t harp on things like that.
I didn’t seek professional help aside from the books and reading advise from these forums. Your last paragraph is EXACTLY what I did. I took care of myself first and it was easy because then a baby was not in the picture. I lost over 100 lbs and still maintain my fitness and health as a result of that lifestyle change. I know pretty much exactly what I need to do but with a child in the picture, I feel this is a whole new beast I’m up against
I understand this as well. I’m just confused about how she can pursue professional help, get out on meds and then just decide herself that she no longer has PND. Her relationship with her mother has been very toxic in the past and I have suspicion that this thought process may have stemmed from something her mother said. I could be absolutely wrong though and know I shouldn’t harp on things like that.
You may be perfectly correct about what your saying - however you did not break her and it is not your job to FIX her.
She must do that herself without any help from you.
Help from you is more likely to worsen the problem rather than fix it.
Step away and give space.
Read the pursuit and distance thread.
And STOP pursuing!
Brilliant! Thank you for that advice!
Definitely wouldn’t say I ran to tell my wife what my MIL had said.
I do not view my MIL as the enemy and I truthfully know that I pull my weight in regards to my son.
Hmmm, interesting. Do you consider yourself a confrontational person? Always trying to convince others that they are wrong and you are right? Give that some serious thought, it could be a contributing factor to why you're having some marital problems.
I’ve tried to take my child off my MIL after I get home from work and she’s told me point blank that she’s fine to keep holding him. To which I explained “no I don’t think you understand, I want to hold my child. I missed him”.
That sounds confrontational as well. And more than a little selfish (whether you intend it or not doesn't matter as much as how it looks to others). Did you stop to think maybe MIL was enjoying holding him? Perhaps you could ASK her if she would mind if you held him instead of just trying to take him? And if she says "not now" then say you understand, and when she's ready for a break you would love to take him. Imagine you are holding your son and he's asleep on your chest, what a wonderful, cozy, bonding feeling that is. Then your W walks in the door from work, comes straight over and tries to take him. How would that make you feel? And then she says "But I want to hold MY child". Try to think of the impact your actions are having on others.
When I say replaced I can remember a specific moment where my W started talking about a health related issue in regards to my son. The moment I heard this I turned to acknowledge the information and t wasn’t even me she was telling. It was her mother and this was the first time I was hearing of this particular subject. I felt, in the moment, redundant.
Did you feel resentment about that? If so, why? How do you think you might be expressing that resentment to your W and MIL? Do you think this is an "either/or" situation, where either you are the 2nd parent or your MIL, that there's not room for both of you?
You make very good points and it’s all about perspective. I wouldn’t say that I am a confrontational person unless I absolutely have to be. I prefer to go with the flow of things. It’s just a bit hard to get my point across when all personalities are not on the table. My MIL isn’t a bad person but there has been a certain tension between her and I since the beginning. She has texted my wife in the past with her disdain of our marriage which appeared, from my end to be completely unwarranted other than her and my wife would be arguing about something. She has always had a sense of jealousy about me in regards to her daughter and my wife has even said in the past that her mother needs to understand that we are a family now and that she isn’t forgotten, just at this stage of our life and relationship that I’m the person my wife will be turning to when she needs something (emotionally, physically etc) and vice versa because that is the way my wife viewed marriage.
My wife taught me a great deal about perspective and compromise. When I am in a disagreement with anyone I am the type of person to listen to reason (of course) and do my best to see it from the other side. I will insert my perspective as well to try to find a happpy middle ground (compromise) if I am being accused of something I tend to ask for examples of what it is I do so I can assess it and make moves to change my behavior. This is what led to my marriage getting back on track last time as I have zero issue accepting responsibility for any wrong doing and I’m willing to take advice, especially from my wife, fully on board.
When it came to the information being eavesdropped on in regards to my son, I was a bit upset, yes. Resentful could be used to describe it as well. I would like to know what is going on in my sons life in regards to his health and not just stumble across it via another conversation. There is absolutely room for MIL in the picture. I encourage a rebuilding relationship between her and my wife truthfully and I also want my son to grow up knowing and loving his nana! I can be a bit blunt sometimes but that boils down to where I grew up and who I grew up around (something I actively try to be better with) I guess I started feeling like a ghost inside my own house and no one seemed to really understand that while I was at work, that was exactly what I was doing. Working. I didn’t want to go to work 5 days a week
i would much rather be at home with my son and wife. Maybe it was viewed as me being absent? I do know that this is a common problem between working parents and SAH parents but I am really trying to avoid assumptions right know. I don’t want to tell you what I think, I want to tell you what I know type of thing.
You’re right as well, that could have come off as a bit cold from my end to be fair. I personally saw it as “you’ve been here with him all day and I’d like a cuddle from my son”... definitely did NOT come out that way and I will have to do better at communicating things like that in the future.
My main concern is my wife suddenly not wanting this relationship regardless of the impact it will have on our family... should probably mention that if we get a divorce I will be forced to leave the country i am living in which will force me away from my son as I will not be able to afford a new visa and there are very strict immigration laws.
I truly appreciate this conversation we are having!
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Had a really weird moment today. I’ve taken the 180 approach because I know that if things do not work out I will at least be trained to take care of myself the way I need to to get over an impending divorce with at least some of my sanity left haha
Anyways got some rough news today about my grandmother passing away. My sister had informed my W of this news and it was pretty much the first thing I found out when I woke up. She broke the news very kindly and warm heartedly ... that’s not the strange part. The strange part was after I took over with daddy duties to let her go take a shower, she cane downstairs and wrapped her arms around me from behind. This didn’t feel like a sympathy hug. I felt something much more there but I’m reallllly don’t know if that’s the case or f that’s what my heart just desires from my wife right now. She squeezed so tightly and didn’t let go for a good while. I will not lie. It felt so nice. Any contact from my wife feels incredible because I am still insanely in love with the woman.
I thought I’d just share that update! I’m still moving forward with the approach though because I do not want to get my hopes up.
I'm sorry to hear about your grandmother.
It sounds like you have your head on straight despite your sad news. Take care of yourself.
Doing 180's is a smart move.
Sorry to hear about your loss. Grandmothers are special.
Friend, if your wife gave you a hug it seems your marriage still has a lot of hope. If I were you I'd go back and hug her again. My sense is that physical closeness can do more than words when people are going through a difficult time. I wish that I'd known that before it was too late with my husband.
She broke the news very kindly and warm heartedly ... that’s not the strange part.
Very sorry about your grandmother. It's good to hear your W shared the news with you in such a loving manner.
The strange part was after I took over with daddy duties to let her go take a shower, she cane downstairs and wrapped her arms around me from behind. This didn’t feel like a sympathy hug. I felt something much more there but I’m reallllly don’t know if that’s the case or f that’s what my heart just desires from my wife right now.
I honestly think it was sympathy. Despite all the hell we go through after BD, our WAS's DO still have feelings for us. They want us to be happy, just not with them anymore. They feel bad that we're hurting, but they don't feel remorseful because they believe we are why the M fell apart, not them. Anyway my W hugged me sometimes after BD when I was really down. But temperature checks proved conclusively that she was still done with the M.
Sorry for the lack of updates - I have been applying changes to myself and there has not been many updates since the last post.
AnotherStander you were correct. I had a talk with my wife in regards to things and she confirmed that it was a hug for comfort because I had had a pretty lame few days prior. I told her it felt nice and that I appreciated the affection.
Anyways. Updates.
Through this talk we made decent progress, at least in my opinion. We had a very civilized discussion about the state of our marriage and by the end of it she was asking me question like “are you still in love with me?” And “do you like me as a person”? I could be wrong here but I don’t think those questjobs would come from someone who wants to entirely give up on a relationship. Last time we had a rough patch it was ME asking those questions. But still she is telling me she doesn’t know what she wants and that she doesn’t have the answers. I explained to her that I not looking for answers from her. I also expressed to her that if a divorce is what she wants that we should waste no time. That I will not prevent her or get in the way of her leaving and that if she wants out that I will need to be shifting my focus to my son and myself only.( I am devoted to my wife so long as she is my wife because those are the vows that I made and I will not be the one filing for divorce. No matter how rocky things get, I made a promise to learn, adapt and fight for this love.) that may sound selfish and I accept that whole heartedly. I give me all to those that I care about and I have never really given MYSELF my all. It will be time that I do this for a change.
I have started making a checklist of things I need to get done on my days off. This checklist is for me only and no other motives are behind it. I find that writing down the daily chores helps me put into perspective, how I need to manage my time. Whether or not she sees this list or pays any attention to it is her own business. Not mine. I do it for myself.
I have a habit of not being able To wake up in the morning easily so I am doing what I can to change that as well. Anticlimactic on that one but until I get better I can’t say much about it haha.
On my days off I like to dress nice. I used to revolve my appearance on what my wife liked. Same with my fragrances. That is no longer going to be the case. I like to look good and feel good about myself.
Any more updates and I will be back
this place has been a tremendous help at just keeping my head on straight during moments of weakness. even if I don’t post anything I can just come here and read stories from people in similar situations.
If I’ve missed anything please remind me and I will update.
Wow. Auto correct killing me!
Questjob = Question.
Funny because it just tried to auto correct to question.
Also me=my towards the end. Really should proof read.
More updates.
Nothing really seems to be budging on wife’s end. She is going to be going to her mothers for a week in a few weeks time which I think will be good. As much as I’ll miss her and my son I think it will be good to have this time away from eachother. We recently moved states only 6 weeks after our son was born and that adds extra stress which I’m well aware of. I have had a few moments of weakness but try My best to hold off showing these moments. I have started writing in a journal as well which helps me keep track of my thoughts and when I have them.
I also cut all of my hair off lol. I had pretty long hair and just took the clippers down to no guard last night because I felt I needed the change. Did that for myself as well as I know a bald head suits me well. Just trying to feel good about myself wherever I can and help out around the house wherever I can as well.
I also managed to bring up her post natal depression to which she said again she felt she didn’t have. I reminded her very kindly that she is actively taking antidepressants still and that I sat in on the doctors appointment where she listed off a lot of things that were concerning her. She seemed to come around a bit to that logic. I feel if someone doesn’t truly think they are depressed that antidepressants would not be being ingested every day as suggested.
So yeah just posting for the sake of my own sanity at this point. I haven’t worked out in over a month and I am very big on my fitness. I think I am gonna get a good work out in after I eat dinner
How about an update? Hope you haven't left us.
Hi Sandi! I am still here and have not left! I am currently working OVERTIME to fix myself and am very busy.
Here is what has been going on currently.
I should mention that I suffer from anxiety and depression (Who doesn't nowadays?) and I tend to overthink. A LOT. I have been seeing a phycologist for the last few months and we have been uncovering a lot of things from my past that I have tucked away for a long long time. Over 20 years to be precise. Around the same time every single year (Christmas/My Birthday) I go colder than ice and somehow a massive break out argument happens between my wife and I where I have made the STUPID mistake of threatening divorce. Twice now. I recognize this now as a grab for power. I DON'T want a divorce but I do not know how else to show my wife that I am serious about wanting this relationship to work and grow. I do not condone this behavior of mine and I am not particularly proud of it to say the least.
My wife and I had a conversation about our relationship two days in a row - The first conversation, I had witnessed her fill out a rewards card for some store we are in, and she used her maiden name instead of her married name (she made a massive point to get everything changed when we got married) So that night I sat her down and very calmly explained to her that I saw the name she chose to wrote and whether or not she has made a decision, I feel as though subconsciously she knows exactly what she wants and that I feel I should start emotionally distancing myself from her to protect myself and my emotions. This did not go over well at all. I told my wife that there are things that have happened to me as a child that I haven't told her... She wanted out the moment I said this because she has told me everything. (truth is that I could not disclose these horrible things until I was ready to face them myself. I wasn't keeping them from anybody, I had literally suppressed them for over 20 years until recently)... The next day I made a choice to sit her down and tell her every traumatic thing my mother had ever put me through which included her trying to drown me as a child. I subconsciously cannot fully trust women because of this and even though it is not my wife's fault, I unintentionally push her away as a result of these things my mother put me through... I am moving forward to forgive my mother for the things she has done to me because I know that I can not truly give myself to my wife fully until I let these horrific memories go. My wife continued on to explain to me that she doesn't think she has PND and has pretty much blamed me for the cause of her depression (which hurts, but I'll own it to keep peace as I know deep down that I am not responsible for that) I have said some very nasty things to my wife out of anger in the past that I regret whole heartedly. In this second conversation I also explained to my wife that I am going to change for good and I can promise this to her because the time before this I didn't have a shovel strong enough to unearth what I needed from my past to move forward... Now I do. She informed me that she still loves me, she enjoys my company and that she just simply does not know what she wants or needs right now. I'm moving forward no matter what.
Anyways, My wife is currently visiting her mother with bub in another state (this was a planned trip... as in I am fully aware of it and I fully endorse it) Now this goes back to my overthinking. I am having such hard time convincing myself that my wife isn't currently looking for a place in her hometown and when she returns she will drop a bombshell on me that she is moving back... All signs point to this NOT happening but my brain is not allowing me to think rationally on it. This is where I have started meditating. I can gain control of my breathing and anchor myself back to reality. So here is what is happening while my wife is in her hometown with her mother -
I am getting frequent updates on both my son and her.
I have been making sure to address every point she makes in her messages because my wife does deserve my undivided attention regardless to what happens.
She has asked about how work is going and tells me she hopes I enjoy any activity I am doing that I share with her... complete with emoji's and all. No kissing emojis, just smiles.
She is sending me snapchats as well.
Now one weird moment I had today really made me realize that I have to make a major shift in my life. Right now our finances are NOT pleasant. AT ALL. The job that I am working at is technically my dream job but I find myself losing passion for it daily. My boss and I have been working out new ways for me to generate revenue... We have been working relentlessly on organizing ideas and ordering items to get this ball rolling... Today my boss informed me (after a massively productive day) that they don't find the idea that we have been working on for the last 3 weeks to be sustainable and if I want this to work that I have to do it all myself and that they will only support 5 out of 20 items I was planning on selling... This didn't upset me. This gave me great clarity. My boss asked me a question that opened my brain up to the one thing I needed to focus on. He asked me what I wanted my legacy to carry on as... The moment that word left his mouth, all I thought about was my son, and my wife. I want my legacy to be carried on by my son by having a close, beautiful and healthy relationship with him. I realized that I have been pouring so much of myself into a job that simply is not paying off. I texted my wife and told her I am going to start looking for new work and I will be resigning from this role the moment I find a better job.
That is really is so far. I will continue to check in, sorry for ghosting for a few weeks!
So I'm not 100% sure if I have made a mistake here. I sent my wife a text around midnight-1230AM last night when I got in from hanging out with a friend of mine. Just an update on the night, how it was all going and I decided to throw in a Happy Valentines portion within the text, and I also told her that if she was interested that I would really enjoy it if her and I went to the city to get lunch together when she got back... She responded positively but I still am not sure whether or not I shouldn't have done this. She responded saying Happy Valentines day! Lunch would be nice... seems fine to me! but I may be overthinking things again as well. I just wanted to come here and update the forum on what has happened since my update last night.
So here is another update, sorry I have been absent again, I'm really taking this opportunity of being alone this last month to work on myself.
So my wife went to visit her mom on the 8th of feb and has been gone for a little over 20 days. I must admit that I do feel a bit of resentment but also a sense of understanding to why this time apart is needed. She was meant to come home a week ago but her mother had to get day surgery and her return date has been pushed back twice. At this point I'm missing my son more than anything.
Contact recently from her end has been minimal, it seems the closer to her return date, the less she has contacted me with any updates. I've messaged to ask her how she and my son are doing... I also understand where she is has very bad reception so her responses aren't expected to be quick but sometimes they won't come at all which really hurts considering it's almost been a month since I've seen my son.
I've used this time to start meditating and focusing on my own personal issues. I've made very good progress at getting control over my mind but I do not think my wife has taken this time to work on herself which will pose problems further down the track.
At the moment I'm feeling optimistic about MYSELF and not so optimistic about the marriage. I have this gut feeling that when she returns, she will return with plans to leave. I'm ready for it though. I have played out worst case scenario in my head and the reaction she is most likely expecting is not the reaction she will receive. I will let her go no matter how much it crushes my soul to do so... Doing this, I understand that SHE has to make a decision here. My decision is made, I want to fix this... So the ball is in her court and the waiting game is really uncool at times but it must be done!
This board, through reading and posting has helped me realize faults of my own and faults that are not my own, but I'm done playing the blame game and started going down a path for only accepting responsibility for my own actions.
I'm still looking for any input, I know the story is all over the place and possibly hard to follow at times.. I kind of just pop up and type whatever is going through my head at the time... So yeah, She returns in 4 days and hopefully I'll have a better idea of what is going on.
Honey
Your mom and her actions just make me want to go back and punch her on the nose. It's sickening when parents do that horrible stuff to their kids.
Personally I am not surprised you suppressed it and dissociated. That is completely and totally normal for kids to do, frankly I am relieved you are as sane and grounded as you are. All power to you for getting to grips with the FOO issues in your life.
I would like to go back to little xch and give him the biggest hug and tell him it's ok and he is going to grow up into an amazing man and loving father. That he will overcome this awful abuse heaped on him by someone who is supposed to love him unconditionally. That it isn't fair and it isn't his fault, not any of it. That he deserves much much better than that.
If you want to chat about FOO, I have a secret thread here.
V
So she came home today and informed me that this isn’t working out anymore and wants to move forward with a separation and divorce. I kept my cool and stayed level headed and told her I wouldn’t stop her from leaving but that in regards to legal services, lawyers and all of that I will not be willing to help because divorce is not an option I agree with. I know that some people agree with this and some don’t but simply from my stand point it’s what I feel is right.
I kept my cool the entire conversation but the moment I saw my son I had to leave the room because I felt a breakdown coming. I was right. The moment I got out of the room and into the bathroom, I couldn’t hold it in anymore. I wasn’t loud but I couldn’t hold back tears and didn’t want to cry in front of my wife.
I don’t really know how to feel. Her idea of a relationship is so far from mine. She tells me she’s tired of trying to make things work and that things should just click ... where as I feel a relationship IS work. People are constantly changing and you either grow and adapt with your partner or you don’t.
I know this is a common theme here in the forums but it really seems like this is the end. She holds a lot of resentment towards me and is not willing to budge away from it at all. I hold resentment towards her as well but the difference is that I want to work through it and work towards forgiveness.
I’m a bit of a roller coaster of emotions right now and I don’t know what to feel. I guess it’s time to take DB into overdrive and do my best to fix myself and this marriage.
Honey
Your mom and her actions just make me want to go back and punch her on the nose. It's sickening when parents do that horrible stuff to their kids.
Personally I am not surprised you suppressed it and dissociated. That is completely and totally normal for kids to do, frankly I am relieved you are as sane and grounded as you are. All power to you for getting to grips with the FOO issues in your life.
I would like to go back to little xch and give him the biggest hug and tell him it's ok and he is going to grow up into an amazing man and loving father. That he will overcome this awful abuse heaped on him by someone who is supposed to love him unconditionally. That it isn't fair and it isn't his fault, not any of it. That he deserves much much better than that.
If you want to chat about FOO, I have a secret thread here.
V
I would love to have a chat! Thank you so much for your kind words!!!
Going back to an older post because I've fallen a bit behind:
Around the same time every single year (Christmas/My Birthday) I go colder than ice and somehow a massive break out argument happens between my wife and I where I have made the STUPID mistake of threatening divorce. Twice now. I recognize this now as a grab for power. I DON'T want a divorce but I do not know how else to show my wife that I am serious about wanting this relationship to work and grow. I do not condone this behavior of mine and I am not particularly proud of it to say the least.
That is very, very damaging talk. A lot of women need reassurances about the relationship so this kind of talk can completely undermine things and make them think "well he doesn't want to be married so I need to make a move before he does to protect myself."
My wife and I had a conversation about our relationship two days in a row - The first conversation, I had witnessed her fill out a rewards card for some store we are in, and she used her maiden name instead of her married name (she made a massive point to get everything changed when we got married) So that night I sat her down and very calmly explained to her that I saw the name she chose to wrote and whether or not she has made a decision
This is not at all DB'ing. You can't keep applying this constant pressure to her because if you do, the outcome will NOT be what you want. In DB'ing the idea is to REMOVE all pressure. That means no R talks, ever. So she filled out her maiden name on a card, so what. That's typical WAS stuff. You roll with it and move on, you don't draw a line in the sand over it.
I feel as though subconsciously she knows exactly what she wants and that I feel I should start emotionally distancing myself from her to protect myself and my emotions.
She does NOT know what she wants. She's trying to figure that out. She's confused and in turmoil. It's a very delicate time, and applying pressure to her will just force her into a decision against the M.
I told my wife that there are things that have happened to me as a child that I haven't told her...
This is the wrong time to share your thoughts and feelings with her. Anything you do along these lines will fall under two categories to her- 1)too little too late 2)tricks to get me back. You let HER share HER thoughts and feelings, and you VALIDATE. You DO NOT share your thoughts and feelings with her, because this is all about her, not you.
In this second conversation I also explained to my wife that I am going to change for good and I can promise this to her because the time before this I didn't have a shovel strong enough to unearth what I needed from my past to move forward... Now I do.
Words mean nothing to her right now. You've got to SHOW her changes, and you've got to show her CONSISTENT changes over a long period of time before she will believe them.
Going back to an older post because I've fallen a bit behind:
Around the same time every single year (Christmas/My Birthday) I go colder than ice and somehow a massive break out argument happens between my wife and I where I have made the STUPID mistake of threatening divorce. Twice now. I recognize this now as a grab for power. I DON'T want a divorce but I do not know how else to show my wife that I am serious about wanting this relationship to work and grow. I do not condone this behavior of mine and I am not particularly proud of it to say the least.
That is very, very damaging talk. A lot of women need reassurances about the relationship so this kind of talk can completely undermine things and make them think "well he doesn't want to be married so I need to make a move before he does to protect myself."
My wife and I had a conversation about our relationship two days in a row - The first conversation, I had witnessed her fill out a rewards card for some store we are in, and she used her maiden name instead of her married name (she made a massive point to get everything changed when we got married) So that night I sat her down and very calmly explained to her that I saw the name she chose to wrote and whether or not she has made a decision
This is not at all DB'ing. You can't keep applying this constant pressure to her because if you do, the outcome will NOT be what you want. In DB'ing the idea is to REMOVE all pressure. That means no R talks, ever. So she filled out her maiden name on a card, so what. That's typical WAS stuff. You roll with it and move on, you don't draw a line in the sand over it.
I feel as though subconsciously she knows exactly what she wants and that I feel I should start emotionally distancing myself from her to protect myself and my emotions.
She does NOT know what she wants. She's trying to figure that out. She's confused and in turmoil. It's a very delicate time, and applying pressure to her will just force her into a decision against the M.
I told my wife that there are things that have happened to me as a child that I haven't told her...
This is the wrong time to share your thoughts and feelings with her. Anything you do along these lines will fall under two categories to her- 1)too little too late 2)tricks to get me back. You let HER share HER thoughts and feelings, and you VALIDATE. You DO NOT share your thoughts and feelings with her, because this is all about her, not you.
In this second conversation I also explained to my wife that I am going to change for good and I can promise this to her because the time before this I didn't have a shovel strong enough to unearth what I needed from my past to move forward... Now I do.
Words mean nothing to her right now. You've got to SHOW her changes, and you've got to show her CONSISTENT changes over a long period of time before she will believe them.
Thank you so much for your insight! It is so appreciated.
I have just finished a discussion with my wife and all of the signs are there. When I told her I don’t see the need to discuss this further as I’ve made my stance very clear and she has made hers, she became frustrated and angry saying that if I am not willing to cooperate she is just going to get a lawyer. She is rewriting marital history, ILYBNILWY, fact denying with “oh well I disagree” - when said facts are provided she still didn’t budge. This only proves to me that I have a WAS on my hands. I have made my stance crystal clear that divorce is not an option I agree with nor am I willing to partake in buy I will do what is needed from my end - but the consequences are her responsibility and only hers at this point. She keeps saying things like “I won’t be able to afford a place to live on my own” ... I explained very calmly that this is one of many consequences she will be forced to face. Divorce is never smooth sailing. I’ve witnessed it many times in my life and it never goes well regardless of cooperation.
She has told me that she has picked me up many times in the past (which is true) and that she is completely done doing it. That she is not willing to work through anything with me and that the marriage is far too gone to repair and to not get my hopes up that it will ever work. She also said she deserves better than me which cut me really deep but I didn’t let it show.
I’m not entirely sure how things will pan out but I guess only time will tell. The conversation, from my perspective, was a lot of her telling me what I’m feeling which was very frustrating to say the least but again, I held it together and kept my cool.
It ended with her walking out of the room crying saying she needed a time out from the talk. I’m remaining strong no matter how much this is killing me inside. We will see how this all pans out in the next few months because (un)fortunately, depending which way you look at it. We are in a lease together that we decided not to break.
I will be updating more frequently from here on out as I did not expect this to happen tonight.
She is rewriting marital history, ILYBNILWY, fact denying with “oh well I disagree” - when said facts are provided she still didn’t budge. This only proves to me that I have a WAS on my hands.
Yes you do, and that is all typical WAS script.
She keeps saying things like “I won’t be able to afford a place to live on my own” ... I explained very calmly that this is one of many consequences she will be forced to face.
As tempting as it is to throw a barb her way on stuff like this, it's best to either not say anything or to validate. "I'm sorry you're struggling with this, it's a difficult time for both of us" or something like that.
She has told me that she has picked me up many times in the past (which is true) and that she is completely done doing it. That she is not willing to work through anything with me and that the marriage is far too gone to repair and to not get my hopes up that it will ever work. She also said she deserves better than me which cut me really deep but I didn’t let it show.
Again, just validate. "I understand, it sounds like this was very frustrating for you and I'm sorry you went through that."
Validation isn't agreeing/ disagreeing/ negotiating/ explaining or anything, it's simply acknowledging her FEELINGS, not what she is saying. You would be surprised how quickly you can defuse a tense situation with validating comments. It puts the person at ease, and most importantly, makes them feel like you are actually listening to them and hearing them.
She makes it tough - she is very cold and said some extremely hurtful things that make me want to pull away. This marriage is the most important thing in my life so I won’t give up. I just have to vent frustrations here.
It is a bit disheartening to know how much I love our child only to be told that not only do I not know anything about him (untrue) but I also don’t do anything right ever ... also not true but this would obviously fall under the believe half of what you see and none of what you hear... but I’d like to think that most would agree, these statements that appear to be fully intentionally with the purpose to really hurt me and to be honest, resentment starts to fester. I won’t allow it to remain as I love my wife more than anything and can work past it but at this current moment if I didn’t come here to write it all out, I think I would have back slid a bit.
She wants to head down the path of separation under the same roof considering we have a child together to which I don’t necessarily disagree with (I do but if I had to choose a type of separation I would rather us be in the same home) but that brings me to my hardest obstacle - initiating contact. In my situation this is a double edged sword because if I do not text or call all day, it gets thrown back in my face at the end of the night that I don’t care about our son or that I dont care about the family and that I should make time... I want to make this crystal clear. She has told me blatantly she wants a divorce, so I know what I need to do in order to move forward with or without her, it’s just that these little hurdles make it extremely difficult. I get the feeling a OM might be involved emotionally again as well just judging on how she is acting. very similar to how she acted the last time this all happened. From my perspective and I say this out of love, when things get difficult, she tends to run the other way or look for the easy way out. It’s frustrating to say the least because now we are here yet again as a result of only myself being willing to put in the work.
It almost seems like I’m being tested to crack when she fires off these extremely hurtful things at me. I remain calm and collected the entire time and refuse (in my head) to give her the reaction that she would be expecting. Validating and asking her to explain better for me to understand so I can fully see her point of view
I have until June/July when our lease is up and then she will be looking to move out so I guess all I can say is wish me luck and I will be back to update soon.
UPDATE:
No movement on W feelings towards me, although I’m not expecting anything. This update is to more or less confirm any suspicions that I had such as my wife purposely trying to start confrontations in attempt to get me to lose my cool. I personally believe she is trying to do this so she can justify leaving with my son under the claim that I am unstable. Unfortunately for her my head has never been more screwed on so she will not get this reaction out of me. She knows that I don’t take well to people putting me on the spot or making me feel stupid. This is all she has had to say to me in the last 72 hours.
In the last 72 hours I was told:
“You don’t do anything right especially when it comes to our son”
“You don’t even know anything about our son”
“It doesn’t matter what you say or do. I’m leaving you so just stop trying”
“ILYBINILWY”
“Did you even think to get him anything for Easter?”
^^ now that last one. I’m the only person earning money right now and we are struggling financially at the moment. As I write this message we are currently $300 short for rent so I will admit - buying my son a Easter basket full of baby toys was not the first thing on my mind - but it wasn’t the last thing. Being the only person who is working in the house it’s tough! She is so close to our son because she is home all of the time raising him (which I love and appreciate more than anything) and I’m out 8-10 hours a day trying to earn enough to provide for both my son and wife. She refuses to put him in daycare to find part time work herself so me being out of the house as often as I am, I personally see it as me doing whatever I can to support her decision to keep him out of daycare. And then to be told that I don’t know anything about our son or that I didn’t even think to get him an Easter present hurt a lot.
BUT STILL I did not give her the reaction she was after. I just simply said “no actually, I didn’t.” To which she responded with a smug scoff (something else I would normally bite at with anger)
Another thing that had happened was - she had posted on her Instagram in a background that looked like a child’s doctors waiting room - I messaged her asking if our son was okay to which she replied “that’s the baby change room in the shopping center”.... 5 minutes later I receive an unwarranted text saying “do you really think I’d be posting selfies if our son needed to go to the doctor?”... my response was simply “I’m not interested in an argument with you, I was just concerned. Thanks.” And that’s it.
She is also falling under the category of wanting her cake and eating it too. A lot of double standards taking place currently (one example is her claiming that I’m additcted to my phone... over the last 3 days I have witnessed her on her phone in the presence of our son more often than not while I purposely make the effort to leave my phone in another room to spend time with our baby boy.
A few days ago as well she had an accident with our son. He was put in his stroller not strapped in properly. She walked away and he fell out head first into the ground. I was asleep when this happened but his cries and hers woke me up immediately. Now how I know I’m making progress within myself? Honestly 5 months ago I would have probably lost my mind over this. I did definitely think it was negligent! But I made sure to check on them both. Him first and then her as she was clearly shaken up over his fall.
A few days after this I found out via Instagram that she had booked plane tickets to go see her mom for a few weeks. I asked her why I wasn’t informed of these plans and her response was very petty - “you didn’t tell me about your trip that you’re taking”... my trip is for a weekend and I told her I wouldn’t be purchasing tickets until we have rent sorted... in other words, I did tell her about the trip. I explained to her that I find it disrespectful for my to learn of these plans through an Instagram post especially when it pertains to affecting my relationship with
our son. I don’t care what she does. She can book a trip to travel the world and leave tomorrow but if there are plans that involve my son and not seeing him for a few weeks - I want to know about it directly. So I put this boundary in place and will no longer tolerate those passive forms of disrespect any more. Before I would have just taken this on the chin and felt sorry for myself and possibly just withdraw myself from the situation.
Anyways - updates on myself. I’m not saying no to plans anymore. People ask me to go out I won’t say no unless I know it will take away from time with my son. He goes to sleep around 7PM every night and I finish work at 7PM so if someone asks me to do something after work, I say yes! Even before my son was born I would decline these offers often. But I’m hell bent on GAL right now. I’m going to get through these trying times with or without her. All I care about currently is my relationship with my son and my own well being. I will continue to not allow her negativity and hurtful words bring me down. No matter how much it hurts, I will not show her.
So that’s it for this update. Still trying my hardest to initiate no contact while having a baby. It’s hard like I said because this provides her two stances to throw at my face - I can either be texting too much and clingy or not texting enough which clearly shows I don’t care. Still definitely could use some expert insight on that situation as it’s been the hardest for me to overcome. I feel like this round of DB is a whole new ballgame considering a child is now involved. Helllllllp!
I will be back!
In the last 72 hours I was told:
“You don’t do anything right especially when it comes to our son”
“You don’t even know anything about our son”
“It doesn’t matter what you say or do. I’m leaving you so just stop trying”
“ILYBINILWY”
“Did you even think to get him anything for Easter?”
Very sorry you're having to endure comments like these! Unfortunately it's no uncommon for a WAS to say things like this, sometimes it's their way of trying to push the LBS away to get them on board with a D.
As I write this message we are currently $300 short for rent so I will admit - buying my son a Easter basket full of baby toys was not the first thing on my mind - but it wasn’t the last thing. Being the only person who is working in the house it’s tough! She is so close to our son because she is home all of the time raising him (which I love and appreciate more than anything) and I’m out 8-10 hours a day trying to earn enough to provide for both my son and wife.
It doesn't sound like you can afford for your W to be a SAHM. What are her plans? You know she wants out of the M, does she plan on moving out? If you can't pay bills while together, is she expecting you to magically be able to pay bills for TWO households if she moves?
Another thing that had happened was - she had posted on her Instagram in a background that looked like a child’s doctors waiting room - I messaged her asking if our son was okay to which she replied “that’s the baby change room in the shopping center”
First I've got to ask why in the world did she post a pic on IG of the INSIDE of a mall bathroom? That is so weird. But second and more importantly- why are you stalking her IG? Given the state of things don't you think it would be healthier for you to stay off IG, or to "unfollow" her?
She is also falling under the category of wanting her cake and eating it too. A lot of double standards taking place currently (one example is her claiming that I’m additcted to my phone... over the last 3 days I have witnessed her on her phone in the presence of our son more often than not while I purposely make the effort to leave my phone in another room to spend time with our baby boy.
That's not cake-eating. Cake-eating is along the lines of carrying on an affair while also wanting to do "family" activities with you and the kids. That is just petty bickering.
A few days after this I found out via Instagram that she had booked plane tickets to go see her mom for a few weeks.
Who is paying for that? If you are 400 short on rent what in the world is she doing buying airline tickets?
but if there are plans that involve my son and not seeing him for a few weeks - I want to know about it directly. So I put this boundary in place and will no longer tolerate those passive forms of disrespect any more.
I agree there should be boundaries in that regard. If you get a D then the decree will state that neither of you can take a child out of the state without informing the other in writing beforehand. But, what is your boundary exactly? And what is the repercussion if she breaches the boundary? And does she know this?
I feel like this round of DB is a whole new ballgame considering a child is now involved. Helllllllp!
You can't "go dark" when children are involved. But contact should be strictly about the kids and all very business-like.
I guess it’s time for an update.
Today she brought home papers to fill out that will sort out her centrelink payments (anyone in the states it’s the same thing as welfare/social security)
It’s a form to confirm that her and I are separated. In Australia she has to formally inform me of the separation which can be something as simple as sending me an email to inform me she wants out. She hasn’t done that this yet. It’s for the court to see dates in which certain events took place. (Mandatory 12 months separation before divorce can be considered/applied for)
Now I’m in a rocky boat here because I have made it crystal clear that I am not at all interested in anything divorce related. Does filling this form out devalue my word? I’ve read a few of the things that she has written and A lot of it is BS if I’m being honest. She talks about the series of events as though I’m full responsible for what is happening. I definitely take responsibility for some of it! But not all of it. When it becomes my time to fill this form out it will be with an unbiased mind and heart. I know this will stir the pot a little because she will not like when I write in my form that I don’t want this divorce.
I’m at a bit of a loss here in regards to the form for her payments. I think it could just be about getting more money which she has stated before, or it could be here actually taking action towards what she claims to want. A divorce.
Another tight situation I’m in is that she is leaving this Tuesday - she has told me finall, the date she is leaving. Now she does not have her license and I know she is expecting me to drive her to the airport. She has not asked for one yet nor has she mentioned how she is getting to the airport... She will expect me to do this for her and I feel it is not my responsibility to bring her while also finding it to be rather disrespectful to still be expecting things of me for her after she has told me she wants out, a potential LDEA (most likely) and after all of the extremely hurtful things she has said to me about my relationship with my son.
I guess I just need help! Should I fill out the form? Is it petty not to?
as for the ride to the airport... is that also petty or do I just agree to do it but use this opportunity to ask her to not assume any task needed by me, for her?
These rocks and hard places pop up out of nowhere
Time for an update. We are officially separated and my ex has taken a very big turn for the worse. I am being verbally abused daily being told how terrible of a father I am because of how little money I am contributing to her and the baby... From my end I am contributing simply what I can afford. I have had nights where I don't eat because I can not afford it. She moved my child 10 hours north from me back with her mothers house.
I'm no longer looking for advice on how to save my marriage. I saw a side of my ex that made me lose any and all desire to want to be with her, unfortunately. Now the demon I am facing is a bitter, angry and resentful ex who takes any and all opportunities she can to put me down in one way or another.
My quality of life in terms of my headspace have increased drastically! I have gotten a life and have started planning a trip to LA at the end of October and all of November. This update is a bit bleak, I don't really know what to say... I just know that even if she wanted to get back together at this point, I would respectfully decline... I am keeping my end of things very civil. reminding her that she has only cooperation waiting on my end despite a lot of the hurtful things she keeps throwing my way. I refuse to fall into that trap of negativity. I only want to speak to her in regards to my son, but even then I am finding myself completely berated with text messages telling me how terrible of a human being I am... Now I want to remind everyone that, I did not tell her to move out. I did not tell her to move 10 hours north and lastly I did not do anything other than try to fix things from my end. She still wanted out and eventually I did too. I think she is having a very hard time right now adjusting to her new lifestyle, and she is taking it out on me any chance that she gets. She is not entitled to all of my earnings anymore and I only want to provide monetary aide to help my son with things that he needs.
Soooooooo okay yeah. That is the latest update. Sorry I have been MIA... Has anyone else ever dealt with an ex that just puts you down every chance they get? lol