My W and I have been together for over 25 years and M for 20. Last Fall a close family member was diagnosed with a terminal disease (and has since passed away). She was obviously distraught and had a hard time coping. Over the months following the diagnosis, her behavior changed from a strong Christ follower and all around loving, caring woman to a bitter, angry woman with a YOLO attitude. Her faith in God seems almost non-existent now. She began to push her parents away late last year and and seems to have no empathy most people, aside from her new friends. In early '17, she began having what seemed to be an EA with a man we both recently met, something that I had never even considered to be a possibility. After about a month, I found signs of an EA and confronted her. She denied and said they were just good friends. She was angry that she had finally found a friend that "gets" her and now she would have to end it. We agreed that she did not have to stop being friends, just no alone time and no emotional talk. This was a mistake. She slowed her texting with him but continued to have a friendship that seemed extreme to me, though she made me feel like a conservative freak for not wanting her to have an opposite sex friend. Fast forward to almost a month ago, she dropped the ILYBINILWYA bomb. I know it has to be the EA (or even a PA now?) that brought her to this point. We had been in couples counseling for about a month at this point and she is still going, but I think she is just going through the motions. I have gone dark and am working hard to stay strong. It's difficult because I tend to have NGS. I started by trying to reason her back and show her unconditional love. She's having none of it and is politely cold to me, and has been for months. We still share the MBR but if I get solid proof that the EA or even a PA are active, I will be moving her stuff out of our room and letting her do the explaining to our kids.
Ironically, I always thought she was a stronger Christian than me and this ordeal has brought me so much closer to God. So if there is a silver lining in all of this, my faith is stronger than ever. I've talked to my pastor and have been in IC for over 7 months. It has helped me beat the depression that marked the beginning of this trial for me. I've been feeling very good about myself for over a month now and I'm actually in the best shape of my life, thanks to rigorous exercise and a change in diet. I feel like I will be able to get through this regardless of what happens but she is the love of my life and even with the way she is treating me, I don't even want to think about us not coming to reconciliation.
We're early (W) and mid (me) 40s and have 4 kids. I feel like she broke after the news about our family member and is in the midst of the MLC fog. I'm hopeful that she will find her way out before she does something that she will regret for the rest of her life. We've had very minor ups and down throughout our marriage. Most of it stemmed from prioritizing our kids' activities and the business of running a family about the cultivation of our marriage. We were guilty of allowing our marriage to become dull and we did not do a good job of talking about our feelings with each other. I had job stress at the same time as the terminal diagnosis and was probably emotionally distant at a time when she really needed me. I was so concerned about being able to provide for my family that I forgot that God ALWAYS provide. We should have been focusing on each other in our times of need but we turned it inward and pushed the emotions down and tried to put up a strong front. Another big mistake in hindsight. I am definitely a stander though. I'll do anything to save this marriage. It means everything to me. I'm living every day hour by hour at this point. Not sure what else to do?
Vereo
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Hey Vereo, I'm Hoosjim.
Your sitch sounds eerily similar to mine in a lot of ways. I am still flailing around a bit myself and don't always feel like I have a lot to offer, yet, but I am trying to pipe up now and again when I think I see an opening.
For now, as a man of faith myself (and one who also had his faith fortuitously strengthened in the early days of his own crisis) I would just encourage you to cling on tight to that... even when things get rough (which they will, sometimes just when you think they are getting better). It sounds like you already have a pretty good handle on your faith, so just always keep in mind that it can see you through. Pray often, and be always on the lookout for signs "from above"... they do happen if you keep an open mind and heart.
Also, it sounds as if (assuming there is an affair involved) that your wife may be Wayward Wife, or "WW". If so, Sandi2's threads are an excellent resource. (And if you haven't been lurking and are new to these boards, the abbreviations like "WW" can be confusing at first-- there's a sticky thread to help with that.)
Good luck, and I'll keep you in my prayers!
Thanks HoosJim. I appreciate your response and your prayers. Believe me, I've seen God working in my life more than ever lately. I just hope He's not preparing me for my new life without her! Going dark is hard for me but I'm sticking to it. I think I may need to dial it back a bit? This morning she called it passive aggressive BS and left the house to go to work in a huff.
I've read a ton of Sandi's threads and advice. She's sorta my hero already. :-)
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Vereo,
Sorry to hear your story. It could have been my first post and I am now 15 months past BD. Yes, I too always thought my w’s faith was the stronger but you never know. Read SBJ’s thread too. Keep doing what you are doing. Read the book. Get coaching. Post often to vent and get advice. Expect snide remarks like she gave you or temper tantrums if you don’t go along with her program. Some of us here learned the hard way our w’s felt it wasn’t adultery after BD because they told us. Sorry to be a downer, but it does sound like a full on EA/PA. Peace be with you in these hard times.
MLC changes (some or all in different orders for different people): beliefs, appearance, friends, job and marital status (and some abandon children too).
Gordie,
I'm so sorry for you as well. It's mind blowing how many times I've read my own story on here from another person's keyboard. All I get are cool to cold words from her so I'm getting used to it. We just had a conversation about an issue with one of the kids and I'm the one at fault in her eyes. Where do they get these negative lenses that all MLC's seem to have? Anyway, I'm going to try to get proof of the EA/PA and move her out of the MBR. Not sure if I should talk to the OM's W or not, if I do get the proof. Open to suggestions there. Thanks again for your post.
Vereo, You sound like a very good and noble man. I'll try to write more later. There are so many Christian marriage resources as I'm sure you know so DB is probably one of several resources that would be helpful to you.
Anyway, I'm going to try to get proof of the EA/PA and move her out of the MBR. Not sure if I should talk to the OM's W or not, if I do get the proof. Open to suggestions there. Thanks again for your post.
That's not an issue I've dealt with, and I could be wrong, but I believe the consensus is not to snoop. Others will chime in, I'm sure.
Focus on being the best you can be. Take care of your kids, and get a life (GAL). You are going to need to focus on some of your desires for two main reasons, to help keep your sanity during these troubled times, and to recover some of your own joy in life. It will have the side effects of making you more interesting to your W, or some other woman if she does leave, but, and this is important, do not do things because you think your W will notice or care.
You've got a long road ahead. Keep posting. You will probably find that venting here helps, and there is lots advice on other's threads that will help you. This process could take a long time, so be prepared for that.
Just remember, pursuing her will not help you, and will probably push her away at this point. It's hard, but in connection with that, try to detach.
Anyway, I'm going to try to get proof of the EA/PA and move her out of the MBR. Not sure if I should talk to the OM's W or not, if I do get the proof. Open to suggestions there. Thanks again for your post.
That's not an issue I've dealt with, and I could be wrong, but I believe the consensus is not to snoop. Others will chime in, I'm sure.
I suggest you try to verify whether she is cheating, and once you have proof, then Yes, IMMEDIATELY stop snooping. You need proof because your W will deny it, she will probably even deny it in the face of proof.
If she is in a PA, then I would move her out of the MBR. There needs to be repercussions.
I think it worthwhile contacting the OM's W, but don't necessarily expect too much. I have seen sitches here in which the OM's W has done nothing or doesn't believe you.
My own view is you need INTEL to know if WW is in an EA or PAYPAL or if there is an OM. Then stop beyond this is snooping. If you snoop you get poop, stuff you didn't really want to know and will upset you or things will be dressed for your eyes or...........
So don't, in your case you think you have identified the POM. It could be he actually isn't interested in your WW, it's one sided. I am minded of MCS sitch.
Tell POM W? Opinions are divided on it. Some have strong views that an A should be blown and exposed. This is premature in your case, as you don't yet have full INTEL.
I suspect it's so. That means trouble ahead.
This should stop it's inappropriate in my view and a boundary defined. I dont care how much the POM 'gets her'. It's something outside of your M.
Those who repair their M early do so my having strong boundaries.
I am also different in that I don't believe MLC truly exists, wayward behaviour oh yes. But is that mental illness? Not in my book. Wayward is as wayward does. It's bad willfull behaviour which has to be addressed.
So far you condoned her 'getting comfort' in her bereavement,that's what paid counsellors are paid for. I don't believe bereavement is an MLC trigger, although it can change beliefs leading to erratic behaviour.
It's time to define your boundaries.
What are they?
Remember a boundary has to be clear concise and enforceable. Centred on things you can do.
For example WW will stop seeing OM is not a boundary. But if WW doesn't cease seeing OM then I will ask her to move out of the MBR is. If you can enforce it. Sometimes moving out of the MBR gives more space for an EA in terms of privacy to text etc.....
Once an A is I earnest M counselling won't help you, it can be used to ease out of an M.
Be strong, examine your own behaviour in this.
What are your goals?
What are your boundaries?
V
That should be PA not PAYPAL. Damn auto text.
Thanks NicoleR. Sadly, Christian marriage resources are way down the road for her, if ever. She's so far from God right now and felt convicted whenever we had discussions that involved Him. That said, I'm devouring everything I can!
Jim1234. Thanks for the feedback. The reason I need the proof is that she will not admit to either an EA or a PA. Like many WW, she's painting me in a bad light when we have discussions and she's picked up extra hours at work that makes her eligible for insurance now. My concern is my kids. I want to have the proof in case it will help my custody situation in case things go in the worst possible direction.
Don't get me wrong. That is a contingency plan. I'm not sure what I'll do if I do get evidence.
Thanks Fastcars,
But why only kick her out of the MBR if it's physical? For me, the EA is more painful than a physical connection.
Vanilla,
Agreed on the Intel. I tend to disagree on the MLC reality. When someone turns their back on their loved ones, does a 180 in nearly every emotional and relational area, and literally acts like an alien had abducted and replaced them, I have to believe that there's been an emotional or a mental break.
My goals are to first save my MR and then get to the business of rebuilding it.
Short term goal is to get proof while staying detached. Lay down the boundaries once I have the proof and let her decide how she wants to proceed with it marriage. There is no way that I'll be able to change her feelings and I'm totally focused on getting my life back so that I'm ready for anything that may come.
Now to decide what to do about our MC if I do prove that she's active in an A
Rough day today. She goes to the same gym as the POM and they were there at the same time again today. I saw when I drive by after church. :-(
Then she put her phone away abruptly a couple times today when I walked in the room where she was. I checked her phone the other day and she has Facebook Messenger secret conversations enabled on her phone. That's point to point encrypted conversation with the option to self delete seconds after the other person reads it. There is no good reason to have that on your phone unless you're up to no good imo. It's disabled by default so she purposefully turned it on. I know snooping is not party of the program but I have to get proof before I can get to that point, if only to help in my potential future custody feud.
I'm staying the course by not reacting to her deceptive behavior. Saddens me that my family is at risk of so much devastation because she does not want to put the work in on our marriage. This A fog, if that's what it is, sure is a strong force.
I had my sister order the books (DB & DR) for me from her Amazon account today. I didn't want W to see these on our account for sure. I'll be digging into them as soon as I can.
Even tho I know God has me in His arms, I still get actual physical chest pain when I find new areas of her deception. I love this woman so much and for her to lie straight faced to me is the worst emotional pain I've felt in my life. She was such a good woman just a bit over a year ago. I'm baffled by the change. That's why I believe in the MLC wholeheartedly. Her break had a lot to do with her controlling parents, I think. She has tried to please them since she was a child. I think the recent death of a young family member has triggered a review of her life and she doesn't want to live it for someone else as she feels she's done for the last forty plus years. This, of course, is not true. She is a strong and independent woman and had been since I've known her. But her break has clouded her mind from my perspective.
There is no diagnosis of MLC in the DSM. It is not a recognised disorder. It appears to be a colloquial expression for a basket of behaviours. Those behaviours are deliberate and entitled possibly consistent with personality disorders. Personality disorders are systemic and non resolvable.
MLC is not in the DSM.
V
I recognize that there is no diagnosis for MLC. The term is a broad stroke to cover something that can happen any age but it's not uncommon at ML. The term may be a myth because not everyone goes into crisis mode but for those that do, the underlying phycological issues are often very similar. Take my W for instance. She is probably fighting depression and anxiety that are rooted in her re-evaluation of her life thus far. For some reason, she has come to the conclusion that she has squandered her life or been forced to do what everyone expected her to do, to the detriment of her identity. She is now behaving irrationally and is making short term life choices that not only have long term consequences for her but also for her loved ones.
So I'll give the fact that there is no official MLC diagnosis, but the underlying issues like depression, anxiety, feelings of entrapment, etc are very real and it's really just symantics. What many of our spouses are suffering from is a very real mental break from their long-time self. Whatever it is, it's not healthy for her or anyone around her right now. I'm no psychologist, just a husband whose W has had a very real break and is at risk of throwing away 28 beautiful years together because she is unable to cope with all that is coming at her in her at this stage of her life.i just want to see her through this and come out with an intact marriage on the other side.
I think this is underlying throughout and doesn't just arise at ML or any other time. Underlying personality disorder which can only be resolved by treatment and the disordered sticking with it.
Some just behave disordered others truly have a systemic disorder which can not be resolved even with treatment.
I watch many LBS waiting for years hoping for a remission instead of getting on with their lives. Believing that MLC is a temporary condition that will resolve and their beloved will return and life will go back to nirvana.
In many cases as an LBS who concentrates on themselves and their children then if the wayward comes to their right mind then it is likely the LBS deserves more.
And of course it's all the LBS fault.
The LBS deserves a much better R and their children a better parent. When I see a parent putting their own needs first then it makes me very sad. That to me includes the LBS who puts their need for the wayward before the safety of their children.
Children come first in my thinking for both parents.
And there are so many wonderful dads here who become the protector and main support for their children. The WW is a glorious beast of entitlement and for me there is no easy way back once this affects children.
The damage often can never be resolved just minimised.
If there are no children affected then by all means the LBS can become Miss Haversham endlessly sighing for that which was andwishing for its return. It's better for the LBS to recover, to accept their limited part in it. Of course there are those who can behave wayward and wake up to the effects of it, they resolve it. It is rare and in my time on the board I have seen only 4 cases of self resolution and I am discussing posters to the board, those actively seeking to understand and heal.
If the spouse is a walkaway and in normally that's the case then it can be different. Since only between 8 and 15% of the population are disordered so statistically that must be so. Then there is nothing better than DB, it's wonderful. And of course we must acknowledge that occasionally the disordered find their way here looking for ways to find new means of control. They don't last when challenged as the last thing they want is resolution and accountability. When called on their controlling behaviour they usually leave. This is a board for healing, growth and repair usually of the LBS.
For me the worst of this is the effect on children.
Just saying
V
Thanks for the reply, Vanilla.
Again, probably just semantics between the term MLC and what is going on with her. It's as real as my depression was and and as anyone who's ever suffered from one knows, until you've been through a mental illness it's hard to appreciate the control it can have over your personality. I strongly believe she is suffering from some sort of mental break and that it just so happened to start at about mid-life for her.
TomAto/Tomato...
I'm taking the approach that if I work on the things about myself that I can, I stand the best chance of reaching reconciliation with my W. On the flip-side, if things do not go the way I hope they do (end of marriage), I will have built myself up to be a stronger man, ready to move on and be there for my children. I will not give up hope on our marriage though, I will stand as long as I can handle it.
Re: kids, we are both very caring with the kids. W is a great mom and always has been. She has remained the nurturer and I've remained present and there for them as much as possible. I work full time so my time during the school year is limited to a couple hours during the week but we do a lot on the weekends. The kids can sense the tension between mom and me, don't get me wrong. But they are not being neglected by any stretch of the imagination. We have a loving home, just not a very loving MR at the moment.
V
Then I think its just waywardness.
V