WAW? Would Love Opinions. Part 10

Link to old thread.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2768095&page=11

Didn't see you start a new thread. I just posted on the previous one.

I can't think of anything you've done since you started DBing like a champ that would give your W the idea that you're going to be her 'friend'. Aside from the high fives from the other day.

I told my W about not being her 'friend' 2 months back when I basically forced the huge temp check, and I also reiterated that when we talked on the phone couplea weeks back. I only reiterated it because she wanted me to be 'authentic' and share what I was really thinking and be upfront. So, I did in a cool calm fashion.

The way I kinda enforce this boundary right now is that I don't engage in any chatter with her, in person or over text, that I would consider 'friendly chit-chat'. For example, she told me stuff about what she did on the weekend with kids intermixed with some stuff about our D. I just responded to the stuff about D and didn't engage in any chit chat about the other stuff.

I still sit with her during some of our kids activities, but I rarely engage in small talk. If she asks me questions, I answer as if some acquaintance was asking me and give the appropriate response. Also, do it in a cool calm way with a smile so it's not coming off as angry.

But maybe limit your chit chat with her when you see her. See how that goes.

I think at this point as LH said, if she files for D or if you do, that is a good time to let her know what the future relationship will look like, and that doesn't include being buddies. The only other time would be if she brings up R talks and depending on the convo, you can bring it up.

Adding to new:

Thanks M, that is kind of where I am at with it. The chit-chat is rather minimal and always initiated by her. The chit-chat is always about our D; our something related to them. It is never about her or me. Last night most of the chit-chat was around Christmas presents, what to get them, who plays with what, how to make it look like we have more presents this year, etc.

When I got them this morning the chit, chat was about our D's lice, how nasty it is, going to wash their sheets, keep me posted, I am going to have the nurse check my hair, we also had some chatter about what kind of soap to get them to remove/kill the lice.

It's not like I am reaching out and engaging in conversation. I am friendly, upbeat when I am around her but usually just follow her lead on the conversations. Just not sure what has caused her to act more open and friendly with me. It is definitely a change.

Originally Posted By: Joseph9

Just not sure what has caused her to act more open and friendly with me. It is definitely a change.

It's because your'e not applying pressure and she feels more comfortable around you. That's why you have to be careful she doesn't become too comfortable and you become the male girl friend.

I am on a conference call, wasn't on mute and LOL'd when I read the male girlfriend. Too Funny.

So I probably need to restrain myself even more to make sure I am not taking the bait.

Man I was sooo proud of myself today. Stayed home with my D's that got lice, threw them in the shower used the lice killing shampoo, combed out their hair, inspected thought I got them all. I asked them several times if they were itching both said they felt good. W comes over after work to pick them up, I told her to inspect within 3 minutes she determines I didn't get them all........uggh you have to be kidding me! Man do I feel like crap! She is taking them to the professional removers tomorrow.

Don't beat yourself up J. 2 years ago both of my kids got lice and we had to do multiple treatments to get them out. It didn't go away with one treatment and I checked them multiple times.
In the end, I cut both of their hairs really short and then did a final treatment and check and it was all gone. Those lil buggers are getting resistant to treatment. Sorry, feel your pain. Lice is a total B. Hope your D's are rid of it soon.

Aside from that hope things are good.

Hey M...yeah things are good. Just trying to get comfortable with the new W and being nice.

Getting up tomorrow morning and playing basketball with the group of guys I have been playing with for about 12 years. Right after BD I stopped playing because I couldn't focus. Those were the days I couldn't even mow the yard without crying. It feels good to get back into the swing of things.

How are things for you?

J9,

You are doing great. Sounds like you worked hard on those lice. You did your best thats all that matters. Don't be yourself up. You showed you care in put in the work to the best of your ability.(that's love).

Keep the road home paved smooth. No pressure.

Just do not forget to wash all the bed linen at high temperatures to get the lice. Also any stuffed toys...

JJ....thanks man, I appreciate the support. I feel better about it today, heck most dad's probably wouldn't have tried. Definitely no pressure and the asphalt is fresh!

Vap...10-4 they have been at the W's this week so I reminded her about the bed linen and toys. She said she was in the process of washing. Their appt. with the professionals is at 8:30 this am so I am sure I will be some updates.

Feel good this morning, woke up around 4:30, made it to the gym at 5. Played basketball with my group of guys until about 6:30. Feel good, going to get my hair cut after work and then meeting some friends out for dinner. Life is good.

5 in the morning basketball? WOW...

Yeah.....you have to be dedicated!

Our group used to be around 20 or so but as people moved away etc. we have a good core of around 12 to 15. We play at 5 am on Tuesday/Thursdays and 6 am on Saturdays. Good group of guys, no fights, etc. We have got to know each other through the years. We have probably been playing together for around 12 yrs or so. But yeah, the older I get the harder it is to get the body going that early. Usually takes me the first game to get lose.

Yeh with W becoming more comfortable, like AS noted, it could be because you've removed all the pressure from her.

I am doing good. Work is picking back up and so I am getting busier. Pretty much NC with W and that's good. However, she's been taking up a lot more mental space for some reason, which is bothering me. Stupid dreams and thinking about the sitch a lot more than I'd like to. But GAL and workout plans this week kinda dropped off because I had to take the kids earlier. I am happy about some extra time with kiddos but it just kinda messed up my plans. The good thing about that though is that previously i'd get all pissed off that my plans didn't come to pass, but with me not being as controlling no more, I've just rolled with it and it's not added any stress. I just need to pick it up this weekend and kids and I are climbing on Sunday, so that should do the trick.

I just need to refocus a bit more and I know the mental real estate W is taking up will go.

Hey M it happened to me as well. I think it's part of the process. After the initial rush of emotions had passed I found myself thinking about the W a little more and not doing as much GAL even including reading, podcasts, blogs, etc. I think once you get past the initial rush you really find out what you where doing for yourself and what you were doing to win the W back.

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I think once you get past the initial rush you really find out what you where doing for yourself and what you were doing to win the W back

Yeah, I think this is a key point. Once that initial rush passes, it becomes very easy to just revert back to whatever you were doing before. This is where I think the journey for personal growth begins because now you have to do the hard work of making changes for yourself without anyone giving you a pat on the back or noticing you.

I just had a bit of a drop off in GAL with moving to the new place and work being insane, but now that it's leveled off, I am basically just gearing up again and making concrete plans.

Making sure you keep reminding yourself that these changes are for you and there is a brighter light coming your way is so important.

What up DB land......took today off. Had to go get myself inspected for lice. It cost $300 to get both of our D's treated and it comes with a 30 day guarantee if everyone in the family gets checked. Since I was not with the W yesterday when she got them treated I had to go in today. I had some time to burn so I figured I would just take today off and get a few other things done as well.

Woke up at 4 am hit the gym around 5:15, got a good workout in. The went and did the Lice thing followed up with a some new clothes and shoe purchases for myself and some Christmas shopping for the girls.

My texted me around 8 am this morning telling me our youngest had a meltdown in a store yesterday because of this big huge stuff tiger she wanted. She told me she was going to go this afternoon to get it. Not sure why she felt the need to tell but whatever that's cool. I informed her I was off today and since I needed to get her some things for Christmas I told her I would go pick it up. She said that was awesome. She then asked me if I could get notes for our D's at school for the lice place and also informed me I didn't need to get any additional lice solution for my hair because she got enough for the both of us. Wow, she is being so nice to me...........

I have my last IC apt for the year and will start back up after the holidays. That should be cool, not sure what I am going to talk about but I will figure something out. I kind of feel sorry for the IC's because I bet many of them never hear back from their patients on how their sitch's or issues ended up. After the IC my oldest has a soccer game at 6 pm so I will spend an hour or so with the W. Maybe I will wear the new shirt I bought today.

Any way...all for now.

Originally Posted By: Joseph9

My W texted me around 8 am this morning telling me our youngest had a meltdown in a store yesterday because of this big huge stuff tiger she wanted. She told me she was going to go this afternoon to get it.

I told her I would go pick it up.

Ummmmm, what? Rewarding a kid's meltdown is never a good idea, LOL!

HAHA....well AS that is Santa's problem not mine!

Had a great weekend....played basketball on Saturday morning with my guys, did some yard work, got the xmas stuff out of the attic, went over to a friends house for a College Football Championship weekend watch party. My oldest had 2 soccer games on Saturday and she scored 2 goals and they beat a boys team 3-2. Those girls were so excited but I felt so bad for those boys, I am sure they will never forget.

Got up yesterday morning, hit the gym, went to church, watched some football, grocery shopping etc. My W dropped the girls off around 3:30 for the week. I took them and our neighbor girls to the Christmas Party at church then they had a special tree lighting ceremony as well. Me and 4 girls in the car ages ranging from 6 to 8....what an experience but I was proud to do it!

As far as the W goes same ole same ole with her continuing to be nice and more engaging. I had our girls for a few hours on Saturday so she could go to a brunch birthday party. She texted me when she was leaving the brunch and I told her the first game was over and we were going out to eat at this artisan pizza place. She then texted me back and called me a "baller" and I responded with a "You Know It". Maybe that is pursuit but I didn't give a f$uch because I am feeling confident. So little things like that are starting to happen. She is more lose, joking around a bit more, more pleasant, more engaging, etc.

I'm not saying she wants to recon but I would rather it be this way then at each other's throats.

J9,

You are a baller! Keep up the great work. Your daughters are ballers as well.

Thanks JJ.....I am a baller and my W is a fool

. The D's are baby ballers!

Good on you J9.

It's chaos with the girls in the car isn't it? But a really good chaos.

Yes, the chaos is real but the conversation between them is really interesting to listen to!

Hey all, it's been a good week. I was able to hit the gym a couple of times, going to go tonight after work as well. I have had my girls this week so it has been filled with the morning and evening routines of dinner, homework, baths, etc. Last night I took them shopping after work and got them both some ear muffs and gloves along with some jeans and a shirt for my oldest. She is starting to get concerned about how she looks and what she wears and the store Justice is her big thing! They are also into bath balm's so I bought them a couple of those as well.

Tomorrow night the kids and I are going to our town's Christmas parade with some close family friends and then we have church on Sunday. I also need to get the Christmas lights hung outside the house as well this weekend.

I have not seen the W since Sunday and we had some email communication on Monday about my youngest D's basketball schedule. Her first game is tomorrow and my oldest has a soccer game at 1 so I will see her a few hours tomorrow. The W did send me a text message earlier reminding me that both our D's are due for another lice treatment tonight with this special shampoo we bought.

I had my last IC meeting for the year last week. My IC still breaks me down every time the topic of my girls come up. We spoke about my moral compass and it being the reason why I am standing for my MR. I told her that my girls were doing really great and then she asked me if I had thought about filing for D myself since your main concern throughout this whole ordeal has been my children. I told her I had and then she said well since they are doing so well maybe it is their way of telling you that it is ok to let go. I didn't know how to respond to that, essentially putting myself first.

She broke me down again. Dam her

Still no more mention of following through with mediation and no additional conversation about Christmas either. I suppose she will wait until the last minute or even the night of to make her decision. Either way I feel as though I am in a really good place emotionally and am prepared for anything.

J,

I wouldn�t worry about until after the holidays. Just keep doing what you�re doing. The more time that goes by the stronger you get. Just believe that whatever happens it is happening exactly the way it�s supposed to happen.

My W and I have a verbal agreement on everything. I�m getting close and excited about my new life!

Go Raiders on Sunday lol!

You told me to get through Christmas....getting closer!

Wow that is awesome! Good to hear, I am happy for you. How have her moods been?

Do they get Crabtree back?

Her moods fluctuate. To be honest I don�t see her that often and when I do it�s for short periods of time. I�ll give her credit she still takes care of house like it is her own. I�m very happy with our agreement and think will co-parent well.

The young lady I met on the beach in the summer texted me last week and asked if I am still married. I told her yes but not for long. She said ok I�ll wait lol!

Man a couple guys received D notices today. In my opinion it�s only gonna get worse.around here. It�s really sad but I come every day trying to give hope and pay it forward.

Crabtree back Cooper out.

Have a great weekend!

Sounds like you had a good IC J dawg.

I've broken down during my IC sessions and specifically during talking about the kids. I feel you brotha!

You know you are staying strong till the holidays and let that be. Enjoy your time with your daughters and all the joy they bring in your life. Hold them close and shower them with love and affection.

I just picked up indoor lights and will transform my kids rooms this weekend. Making this holiday festive and full of love for them from me. Choose happiness with your D's till the end of the year. Have a bottle of wine on NYE and then wake up the next day full of purpose and clarity on 2018.

You got this bro! You've been an inspiration and learned so much from you. You're an incredible father and you will only get stronger for them as years pass by.

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I�m very happy with our agreement and think will co-parent well.

In these situations I assume that is the best you can hope for if you have to go through it. I am happy for you that you feel the deal is fair, etc.

Quote:

Man a couple guys received D notices today. In my opinion it�s only gonna get worse.around here. It�s really sad but I come every day trying to give hope and pay it forward.

This place is theraputic but also depressing at times. Some people come and go I assume thinking there is a quick fix or they are just really trying to find some answers. I will say the longer it goes on the less hopeful I am and for many of us our conversations are just right around the corner.

Quote:

You got this bro! You've been an inspiration and learned so much from you. You're an incredible father and you will only get stronger for them as years pass by.

Thanks M...I appreciate the kind words. Some days I feel like I am walking the Green Mile. I cycle between feeling really good, wishing this was over but also willing to stand a bit longer. I assume the cycling will stop and when it does I know how to proceed.

Originally Posted By: Joseph9

This place is theraputic but also depressing at times. Some people come and go I assume thinking there is a quick fix or they are just really trying to find some answers. I will say the longer it goes on the less hopeful I am and for many of us our conversations are just right around the corner.

I was just thinking about that yesterday. People find this place and are filled with hope that it is gonna restore their marriages. Try the �techniques� then are disappointed when it doesn�t work. It takes a long time to understand what DB is all about.

I was thinking of Hermes last night and how he is literally trying everything in his power to stop his D and the sad part he is most likely making it worse. Every minute to him must feel like he is falling of a cliff and he is desperately trying to grab onto something to break his fall.

Yeah the $hit is pretty brutal early on. In some respects getting cut off at the knee caps is much easier then limboing it for months.

I was kinda pissed this morning because my W didn't show up to our youngest basketball game. I thought about texting her to see what was going on but them I realized it is not my responsibility any more to remind her or track her whereabouts. She has the schedule so she can make her own choices. Usually she would send a text or email to let me know if she wouldn;t be attending knowing her she probably had a blonde moment. My D's where asking me if mommy was coming and I just told them I didn't know.

I am the polar opposite would never miss a game, always get them there 15 minutes before schedule, etc. I can't project my parenting ideas on to her.

Joseph,

fear not the big D. In many many ways, it is quite liberating. And besides that, the $hittiest day of your life has already happened at BD.

Stay strong buddy, you are an awesome dad!

Thanks Vaps....I appreciate the kind words. I am trying to stay stong the best I can. I still am doing some cycling but wish I knew why my W has not filed yet or followed through with it when she told me a month ago she was ready to push forward with mediation. I told her to let me know but she never responded at first I thought it was a good sign but now i'm not sure. I have been trying really hard not to mind read.

I will have to agree the BD was pretty shitty! I love doing things with my girls and I am very proud to be their single dad!

My W did text me about my oldest soccer game and showed up for it at 1She asked were our youngest was it and I told he ron a play date with another friend and that I took her over to their house after her basketball game this am. The totally forgot and apologized to me. I told her she didn't need to apologize to me and then she said well I need to apologize to her. I said yeah no biggie but she scored 6 pts she was really sorry and said she was sound asleep. The nice guy in me feels bad for next texting her to remind her or try to wake her up but again not my responsibility any more.

She was very talkative, touched me a few times. Discussed Christmas, she showed me something funny one of her students wrote to her and other small stuff like that. The D's and I are going to the local Christmas parade tonight with some family friends and I was really close to extending an offer but I didn't. Considering she has not committed yet to Christmas I didn't want to put too much additional pressure on her for anything else.

J,

Do you miss your W or do you miss having your family intact?

Wishing you knew what your W thoughts and motives is futile and damaging to your mental health. I know where you are emotionally, and trust me, dropping the rope is friggin awesome. In all honesty, you cannot do anything to "win" your W back, so it is more prudent to concentrate on yourself and your kids. You deserve it and your kids do also. Trust me, extra time and attention you give your kids will pay 100 fold. As will extra care you give yourself, physical and mental care... You need it, trust me, we all do (did)...

L,

I think I miss the family more than my W but I think I have my feelings for my W stuffed deep down inside of me with a shield up around them for my protection. The longer this goes on the harder it is for me to visualize us back together again. I don't know though if I am thinking this way because I am really trying hard to move on emotionally or if I am just kidding myself. I do know that if she came back I would want to try. I know it is way too soon for her to attempt to come back and it would probably be more around the 1 yr to maybe the 1.5 year mark if you use the 1 mth for every year of marriage. So it would suck to throw in the towel now and not give this sitch the full opportunity to see what would happen. Does that make sense? On the other hand I battle my inner demons of she doesn't deserve me. That is what I struggle with internally at times.

V,

Thanks, I try really hard to not get into her head. I think at times thats what makes limbo difficult. Emotionally there are good days and some bad but the good is starting to out weigh the bad. I am starting to enjoy the down time without the kiddos around which makes me really appreciate them more when I have them.

I feel the same way - miss the family more than anything else. I do go through ups and downs where I miss W, which would make me feel down - but I've trained my mind to immediately think of her having a EA/PA which then totally breaks the sadness and I can stay balanced.

Ever since I told W in concrete terms that I don't want to be her friend, she's basically been NC with me as well. I am lucky compared to other that I don't get random messages from her about anything unless it's about kids. Part of me doubts whether NC is a good strategy because she felt neglected in the M and she always said that I would cut her out of my life. The thing is that the only 180 I can do is whenever I see her I am friendly and cool. But, not going to break NC because it's giving me emotional and mental protection.

I know what you mean that you would be willing to try if she came back, but the timeline is so daunting that we have to exercise great patience. I also wonder if she deserves me and it's hard to do anything with that thought right now.

I think I've come to the conclusion that the biggest piece that needs to be wrestled with is that we were 'rejected'. I think that if I can figure that beast then I will be alright. What are your thoughts on that J? Is the 'rejection' still playing some strong part in the feelings you have?

Originally Posted By: Joseph9

This place is theraputic but also depressing at times. Some people come and go I assume thinking there is a quick fix or they are just really trying to find some answers. I will say the longer it goes on the less hopeful I am and for many of us our conversations are just right around the corner.

I think people do learn her, they can express what's going on in their lives and their feelings freely, which many might not be able to do with friends and/or family. I also find it useful to see how my situation fits a pattern given how many men are here with 20+ year marriages experiencing the same challenges.

I will say that spending too much time here causes me to be more focused on my MR and problems than maybe I would otherwise be.

I dont think it is because I was rejected. I think I struggled with the reason why. The reasons she gave me were pretty superficial. I am a good guy, I provide for my family, I am good dad, my W told me I was the best sex she ever had. None of it adds up. I was active with the family, always there for them. The choices we made as a family where joint decsions. I did have a life outside with going to the gym, playing basketball 3 days a week, etc. She knows these things. We had a really good life.

She does come from a messed up childhood lined with a mom that was never there for her emtionally and parents she is not connected with. I heard Andrew P talk about a Chaos Kid which I believe my W is. Her family is messed up and I guess when we got married I thought I was the voice of reason, the reason that could help her overcome. Maybe it was the nice guy in me but what she valued was my stability and providing to her what she never had. A family unit.

There is a part of me, that no matter what she says, thinks that she will never D me. I am just being honest, laying it all out there. Part of me thinks that she can't do it. Like anyone my family is so sweet, so innocent, my girls are just incredibly awesome and innocent. I can't imagine her wanting to break that up. I am just being real. I know I go by J9 but my real name is David.

So I hold on to that, I hold on to my family and my strong moral conviction of seeing this to the bitter end. My W literally has no one. No family that she is close to, me and the kids where everything to her. My parents got D when I was in K and I always swore that I would never get D and that plays into my decisions.

I took my girls to the local Christmas parade tonight and it tore me up to be there with them by myself. You see all of familys there and it was kind of depressing when I think about my sitch and being there by myself. What can I say, I am a family man. Sure I love to hit the gym, ply basketball, etc. but at the end of the day my children and W are my world. I can't deny it, that is who I am. Not sure it can be changed.

I suppose that is why I have hung in there like I have. My strong family values, the love for my girls, the love for my W and the desire I have to do anything to keep them together. These are my truths. It is a crushing blow no doubt and I have done everything I can to try to understand where my W is at mentally, without getting angry, suppressing my own feelings, emotions, anger, etc. because at the end of the day that is what is most important to me.

I don't make emotional decisions, I am laid back, easy going which is what has maybe helped me on this journey. I struggle at times but at the end of the day, for some reason, I have faith my W that she will rise above and be able to see what she has to lose.

Maybe I am wrong and at the end of the day she will let me down and she will have the ability to follow through and see this through to D. I am almost 7 months in and she has yet to pull the trigger. Why? I have no idea but there is a part of me that believes that she can't do it.

Maybe I have been in denial, maybe I need to face the truth that D is going to happen. I know the reality of the situation is that more than likely it is going to happen but I still refuse to believe. Maybe I am clinging on to hope, maybe denial, maybe I get emotional because it is the holiday season , not sure. She can file or appraoch me at any time to start the process but she has not done so.

What I struggle with is could I love her the same. Has our innocent love have been forever jaded. My anger, contempt and resentment has been buried deep inside me and can that be overcome?

J9,

We have more in common, my first name is David as well. David was a king. And so are you. You have given your W a lot of space and time to think out what is going on. You have let her taste what's its like to be on her own. You might be right in your assesstment about her not being able to pull the trigger. My W told me she wasn't never going to leave me and she knew it.(I dont know if I believe her) but that's what she told me. She told me she was so hurt and her mind was so clouded so couldn't think straight.

I have faith in your M and will pray for you and every person on this forum.

People are meant to harbor ill will it makes them sick. You can forgive your wife, because life is fickle and so are people. When we get married there's never anything That Tells us how thick is going to get, but through thick and thin is right. And us on this forum is right in the thick of it.

Was cold up there by you all. Has the snow melted yet. It melted down here bybus in SA and was in the 60s. Crazy weather.

J9,
This is an amazing post! It pretty much sums up how , I believe, almost everyone here feels. Thanks for posting this! I go through muchthe same cycle. Sad, mad, ok, and sometimes I wonder why I spent so much time and energy chasing someone who clearly doesn�t want to be with me at the moment. I have actually caught myself asking do I really want to be with someone who treated me so horribly? I deserve better than I have been given. Then other days I love her and would take her back in a minute.It�s funny, I was talking to someone else the other day and said, � You know, we love our wives, but when something like this happens all of a sudden, despite the sting of betrayal, mental and emotional abuse, and all that goes with being a LBS, we love them more than anything in the world. We love them so much we are willing to overlook the fact that another man has taken our place as a partner and lover, and nothing we can do will make them see that is the wrong choice...the ironic part for me is that I was one of those guys who swore that if I ever found out she was cheating she�d be out the door quicker than f&$k. Different tune when it actually happens and you see your family disintegrate before your eyes. Thanks again J9. Praying for ya Buddy!

Great stuff folks! I really enjoyed reading all of your insights into this maddening thing.

J9 - just like your W, I believe mine does not have it in her to file for D. She broke down when I had mentioned doing a legal separation agreement. But, again, maybe I am wrong and she will follow through next year.

Part of me just wants this to be over with. I know that going through this discomfort is good and is about personal growth, but I just don't want it to drag on. My timeline is until June next year, when I can legally file for D if I want. That's roughly the timeline I have given myself to accomplish all my physical goals and some mental/emotional ones. I don't know what it will be like by then but I just don't know if I'll have the strength to stand for the MR after that.

gw - yeah I go through similar cycles as well with sadness, anger, being ok, and then wondering why I'd want someone who doesn't want me and didn't even give me a chance. I guess that's the piece that really bothers me is that I wasn't even allowed a chance. Like WTF? Makes me feel like I was some plague that she had to get away from.

I finally put up the lights in my room J. It's real nice and I will be psyched to bring a lady up to my room when the time comes. Sets the mood real nice

JJ - Again, thanks for the kind words. I have prayed many hours myself and will definately accept any and all! I don't know if my assessment is accurate but I cycle between being hopeful and gradually losing hope. We were with some family friends last night and this family was with my W on Thanksgiving. The family freind commented to me that my W made the statement that she was considering selling her engagement ring because she was never going to wear it again and needed the money to pay for the D. I have no doubt she probably said it but I try to remember to believe nothing they say. It doesn't make much sense either. 1 month ago she wants to sit down and discuss moving forward and now she is think about selling her ring? She also made the comment to our friend that we haven't discussed moving forward yet because there is never a good time with the kids around. Again, that doesn't make much since to me since she had no problems coordinating time to be alone when she wanted to move out but now she is having problems with it??? Again, trying hard to stick to not believing their words but actions. To me it just sounds like a bunch of excuses. Some times I also think she just wanted a vacation.

GW - Thanks dude, you have had it rougher with than me so I send prayers your way as well. The cycling is definately real, I don't deserve this, ready to move on, then i think of the kids and it just continues. I am not an angry or bitter person by nature so that part I have always had control over. I just trust and hope to have clarity in the next 6 months one way or another.

M - I bet those lights are money! Good work! When i think about throwing in the towel I then think it has only been 6 months. Would I be quiting the journey too soon? Like starting the race but not finishing. Like if I was going to cut bait after 6 months I just should have done it when she first moved out.

J,

Hang in their brother and take it day by day. I�m not sure why your friends would tell you that especially with Christmas right around the corner but whatever.

No matter what happens you fought an unbelievable fight for you daughters and they will realize that someday.

You�re a great dad and an inspiration to many on this board. You will figure this all out and move on and have a great life one way or another!

Keep on keeping on!

Thanks L trying real hard. I appreciate the kind words. Trying to stay in the moment and not believe her words or what she tells other people. I am sure she trying to do her own justification in her head.

Just trying to observe her actions. Not sure what to think any more so I am going to try real hard to not think of anything.

W just came to the house and picked up the kids for the week. My oldest is such a champ, my youngest is so sweet and when she comes up to hug me goodbye for the week it is crushing. Just the way she says good bye daddy us heart breaking.

I just have to believe there is a bigger purpose a higher meaning to all of this.

I have read your whole sitch from day 1, you deserve to be happy like anyone else and I have seen you make some incredible efforts to sae your M, I thank you b/c you actually help me too. Time will tell how this works out but without a doubt you are going to be a better stronger person.

I was a teacher at one time and I can tell you the faculty room at lunch time is nothing but a soap opera.

Thanks Happy I am glad that you have been following and have learned something from me. That definately is a pick me up and re-enforces that I have carried myself dignity, pride and self-respect. I hope that I can be a success story but the longer this goes on doubt creeps in. I have heard a couple people mention the 6 month wndow and how it gets really hard to recon after that point so I feel my window is shrinking.

Ah yes, the old lunch room drama. My W has surrounded herself with those teachers who have been enablers for her. Most of which are D or are going through similiar situations of separation. To an outsider it makes me feel that they think they are doing the cool thing, living this trendy, middle aged care-free lifestyle. Uncoupling, co-parenting, not happy being in a loving family and growing old together. I only hope that my W will find her way.

Yeah I have heard the six month thing too, but then there are folks who have had a shot at recon much later than that. I am not trying to cling to false hope or anything like that, but the first six months seem too short - I mean we're still trying to achieve some equilibrium in that time and dunno if the WW/WH spend that time trying to figure themselves out.

I also know that W has a buncha D enabling people around her and that carefree lifestyle crap. The bitter part of me can't wait for the day that regret hits their a$$es. I know it's not the greatest mindset, but there needs to be some space for revenge - in my case, I am going to be so effin' awesome that she'll regret not even trying. That's helping me to be motivated.

Ahhh M the bitterness.....every dog will have their day!

hahahahahha yeahh!!! This might be the premise of my forthcoming romance revenge novel.

But yeah, I can taste the bitterness and I will have to let it go, but right now the anger and bitterness can be channeled positively into my own revenge fantasy. And then as MC Hammer says - can't touch this. lol.

A friend sent me a very interesting perspective on rejection: the WW/WH didn't reject the LBS, but rejected the option of having the willingness to work on the MR. I find that kinda soothing right now.

Quote:

But yeah, I can taste the bitterness and I will have to let it go, but right now the anger and bitterness can be channeled positively into my own revenge fantasy. And then as MC Hammer says - can't touch this. lol.

Well....hopefully you don't put on the parachute pants!

For me the anger and bitterness is a slow burn. 6 months ago I felt like an erupting Volcano with the lava being my emotions and spewing everywhere. Now I feel more dormant with the lava still burning deep down in side but is no longer erupting.

Hey L...how are you guys handling Christmas? Are you getting your W a present? Have you told the kids yet?

We will do presents in the morning and then I will take them to my moms and she will take them to her parents later in the day.

Yes, I will get her something from the kids.

No, I have been to advised to hold off until she is ready to move out.

On Saturday she asked me if she could have more time living at home so she doesn't force herself into buying a house she doesn't end up liking. I told her I would think about it and let he know after Christmas.

Cool, thanks. Something from the kids is a good plan.

Interesting she asked that question.......I guess maybe a money thing why she wasn't ready or doesn't have a place lined up??? I guess renting for 6 months is out of the question just to get her feet on solid ground?

Originally Posted By: Joseph9

Interesting she asked that question.......I guess maybe a money thing why she wasn't ready or doesn't have a place lined up???

She wants to buy a house and not rent. She is very picky about houses. AT first I said NFW. The only reason I am considering it is because I don't want to have my kids move twice (in apt and then house) within 6 months.

Quote:

The only reason I am considering it is because I don't want to have my kids move twice (in apt and then house) within 6 months.

Makes sense, I would do the same thing.

Sorry M taking to my thread.

Either way I think it's time for her to make a choice and I have been thinking about this for a month or so. I know she has experienced loss but even with me not pursuing I think the only real loss she has not felt is me. No matter how dark, dim, not pursuing etc. I don't think it has mattered. We say the sitch's are all the same but the players are different with different dynamics in the R's. I always kind of thought that the only real time she would feel loss is if I approached her and started moving the D process along myself. IMO it would be something she never would expect me to do.

At the end of the day I think she is hurt, scared, depressed and if totally confident she would have already filed. She tells me she is ready to move forward with mediation then in the same token says she is stressed and tired. I respond and get nothing??? BS if you are that confident make it happen don't reach out and then you never follow through. It's not about the money, I don't buy that BS. She had contacted a L right before she moved out and was ready to start the paperwork but said she couldn't do it because of our kids. Telling our friends she is going to sell her engagement ring because she won't wear it again and needs the money is BS IMO I don't buy it and also telling them there is never a good time since the kids are around is also BS. She had no problems calling our friend to get them to watch our girls to have the "move out" discussion or see if they can babysit for an evening but when it comes to this there is never a good time because they are always around???? B.S. I think in the back of her mind she knows me and knows that I will always be there for her. I don't think any amount of DBing was going to change that. Maybe I was too easy on her. I could be wrong but these are my thoughts.

My girls are adjusted, seem really happy so outside of me being around all the time I think they are in a really good place. I don't know of OM and if there was/is it has been almost 7 months of her having fun and it's time for me to see where she is at. If she tells me her thoughts have not changed then we will move forward with the D process.

I just think it's time.

Lots of guessing what she may want. What do you want? What is in your control? A lot of the walkawys say they want D but they also want the LBS spouse to do the actual legal and financial work.

G...I don't want a D but I am not scared by it either. The only thing I can control is myself, my actions.

The thought of her wanting me to do the work has crossed my mind and I guess if I did I could be giving her what she wanted.

I guess it's the limbo thing that really stinks, I know you need to GAL more etc, but it seems like it is still in the back of your head. Not a burning pain but a dull, nagging type of pain.

So I guess if you have this talk with her and she's like yeah lets D, then you're going to tell her to start all the paperwork?

I have a month to contemplate but if I end up doing it I would probably say something along the lines of you approached me at the end of October saying you were ready to move forward but you never responded to my answer of lets get together to discuss. Is this what you still want? If so, we need move forward. Schedule the appointment with the mediator, let me know when I will be there.

Something along those lines.

That sounds pretty good to me. Put it back in her court and let her deal with it. She's gotta choose a path.

I agree, I feel the same way today so like everyone says wait and see if you have the same consistent feelings for a month.

About month or so ago I was fairly optimistic but as time has gone on my hope is starting to diminish. With no OM picture I am afraid my W was completely done the moment she walked out the door and never had any intentions of coming back no matter what I did.

I think when she started to be a nicer, more engaging to me combined with no following through on her text about mediation I got a little wind in my sails again. I never pursued or changed my behavior but I think it got me thinking there could be some hope.

Lesson learned about having no expectations.

J,

I think she hasn't filed because you haven't putting any pressure on her. You should be proud because it is so hard for the LBS not to pursue.

Last January my W said she was starting to feel trapped living in my house. Now she is asking me if she can live there longer. Why? Because I don't give a F what she does anymore. I give her all the space she needs. Will that stop the D? Probably not but it's been almost a year and apparently she's not trapped anymore.

Thanks L...I am proud of how I have conducted myself so far. I really have not pursued at all since about the first month after she left. I truly believe I have given her a ton of space and freedom. For example, when she missed our youngest Basketball game last weekend I didn't call her to remind her or text her to ask where she was at, etc. It's not my responsibility any more so I know she is aware. She still felt the need to apologize to me, I don't know why but I told no need to apologize to me apologize to our D.

I also notice little things like looking over my shoulder when I am texting someone and quickly looking away when I notice, or still letting me know when she is leaving my side to go to the bathroom or things like that. Some times I wonder if she is more attached then what she leads on to believe. Who knows, mind reading.

Anyway, like you I don't think I ever stood a chance. Not sure if there is anything I could have done to stop this train from rolling but I will see how I feel in a month.

Hi all, something cool happened to me last night at my D's basketball practice and it is a good step for me. I have played basketball my entire life and it is a sport that I am pretty good at and I always knew I would be good at teaching the kids. Before BD I had thought about coaching my D's teams but with all that was going on I didn't think it was the right time. So while at practice last night my D's coach comes up and asks me if I would be willing to help him out with practice and there are a few games he won't be able to attend.

The old me probably would have shyed away however I thought it was a good time to get my feet wet so I accepted his offer. It was really cool being out there on the court teaching 6 yr olds the game I have loved my entire life. The look on my D's face was priceless. It also made me feel good when my W showed up and she saw me out there on the court helping instruct them.

Any way just wanted to share as it was a really positive experience.

Hey all still feeling like I am done it has been a few days and the feelings have not gone away. I am starting to get the feeling that my W is perfectly fine being in this situation and the longer it goes on I start to wonder if I am enabling an open MR which is something I am not ok with. When she moved out dating other people was never discussed because she wanted a D. I never would have imagined at the time, almost 7 months later and nothing has really changed.

My oldest D had a soccer game last night that I took her to so my W could stay home with our youngest. I asked my D how her week was and she told me that her and our youngest had spent the night at 1 of my W's friends place. "When I asked I wasn't expecting her to say what she said, I was expecting to get stuff about school, homework, things like that." This is my W's friend that recently left her husband as well and is now living in a condo. I know her friend and we hung out many times together as couples so I am not concerned about the friend. I just thought it was interesting that my W would have them spend the night on a school night, in the middle of the week. When I first heard my D mention it I immediately thought she must of had a date. I guess the mind always assumes the worst. My D said she was up until midnight (that could be 10 pm to an 8 yr old I guess) and then the friend took them out for pancakes the next morning. So that struck me as kind of odd but I didn't pry and ask her what was mommy doing or anything like that. I just said I bet you had fun and left it at that.

So after the game as we were driving home my W texted me and asked if I could make sure that our oldest took her soccer gear off so she could go to bed because she thought she would be exhausted. I replied back and said yes she is tired and indicated she mentioned she was up late last night, that she was also hungry and I just left it that. I expected my W to come back with some reply or explanation but just responded with ok, like it didn't phase her or it was no big deal.

I guess it is $hit like this that I am going to have to get used to moving forward. Looking back I probably shouldn't of said anything so I know it's an opportunity to do better in the future because I know it will happen again.

I wonder if me bringing it up goes hand in hand with not giving a $hit any more and gradually becoming indifferent?

Originally Posted By: Joseph9

I wonder if me bringing it up goes hand in hand with not giving a $hit any more and gradually becoming indifferent?

Joseph,

I don't understand your question. Clearly, your wife is moving on and you should do the same. Your circumstances are unfortunate, but you do have a choice. You can wallow in sadness and pain on you can build a wonderful life ensconced in happiness.

When you start to feel indifference and not caring as much about what you say, your word choice, etc. and you find yourself emotionally not caring as much are those the signs that normally come with moving on and being ready for D? Is it like a light bulb going turning on in your head? Like the ah ha moment?

Originally Posted By: Joseph9

When you start to feel indifference and not caring as much about what you say, your word choice, etc. and you find yourself emotionally not caring as much are those the signs that normally come with moving on and being ready for D? Is it like a light bulb going turning on in your head? Like the ah ha moment?

Yes. And eventually, it becomes something that happened; lessons learned and you move on to new experiences and bigger and better things.

Thanks D....I am also starting to feel the anger and sadness coming back again. I have always remained hopeful and optimistic but I think as that starts to fade away the emotions come back. I have also tried to not view her in a negative light either but I am finding that harder and harder to do.

I will give it until after the holidays but I have a really strong urge to send her a note and let her know that after the first of the year this is going to happen, that J9 is out.

Don't worry, not sending.

Originally Posted By: Joseph9

Is it like a light bulb going turning on in your head? Like the ah ha moment?

J,

I think it's more gradual. I use to have those steering wheel moments where I would bang on the wheel and scream "why in the fuch are you doing this to our family"? I don't anymore. If she was out I couldn't sleep till she got home. Sleep like a baby now when she's out. Would get a pit in my stomach when she would bring up anything about D. Don't anymore and actually bring it up myself now if I want answers.

Had dinner with my Ws cousin last night. She thinks my W is nuts for wanting a D. Says I am always happy when she sees me and my W is not. Thinks shes MLC and will regret this big time one day.

The thing is even though I am in a good place there seems to be at least 1 day a week that I feel I have some fight left in me. So I am not so sure I can ever get to 100% acceptance.

Hang in there bro you are going to be just fine.

Quote:

The thing is even though I am in a good place there seems to be at least 1 day a week that I feel I have some fight left in me. So I am not so sure I can ever get to 100% acceptance.

^^^^^^.....I agree with you 1000%. I do know that I no longer get that pit in my stomach when the word D comes up either and when I have the girls or just in general I don't worry what she is doing. Even with finding out my girls spent the night at her friends house or whatever, I went home, poured myself a glass of bourbon and slept like a baby. I know I have some fight but is it worth it?????

I guess I need to figure out if I really want a D because I don't want to be with the person any more or if it is about not being in limbo any more and trying to ease that pain.

Also by not filing or pushing it forward myself does that make me look weak? Or will she see me as a strong, confident man because I am not pursuing, not chasing, not engaging her.....

Quote:

Had dinner with my Ws cousin last night. She thinks my W is nuts for wanting a D. Says I am always happy when she sees me and my W is not. Thinks shes MLC and will regret this big time one day.

Anyone that knows me and my W that knows what is going on feels the same way for me. No one can wrap their mind around anything that my W has done. I completely agree with you!

Originally Posted By: Joseph9

[quote] I know I have some fight but is it worth it?????

I don't actually fight, but usually on Sunday's for some reason I feel like I may not want a D. It's weird.

The beauty is usually at some point my W yells at the kids or says something to me and then I think to myself man I can't wait until she's out of here lol!

Originally Posted By: Joseph9

[quote]Also by not filing or pushing it forward myself does that make me look weak? Or will she see me as a strong, confident man because I am not pursuing, not chasing, not engaging her.....

IMO only if you know she is in an active A.

I do not know of an active A or OM. There has been some soft evidence of intentions books she was reading early on, a conversation I stumbled into with her talking about some guy dancing with her, this mysterious sleepover my D's had on Wed but no hard evidence of text messages, pictures, meeting my kids, her introducing someone to our mutual friends or anything like that. If she is engaging in the activity she has kept it underground.

Quote:

I don't actually fight, but usually on Sunday's for some reason I feel like I may not want a D

Sundays suck for me as well but I know why. 3 hours of the afternoon is spent doing their laundry and getting their bags packed for their week at mom's. Cleaning their rooms and shutting their doors for the week is a little bittersweet. It also makes me wonder what is going through their head as they get shipped from house to apartment.

Well, the situation makes it harder to find hard intel on a potential A and OM. I don't know how you would find out about it short of asking her head on - she could lie obviously - and hiring a PI. I am in a similar situation and that's why I don't rest my decision about the D on finding out about an A or OM. That evidence would play into my calculus, but I want a D because I don't want to be with her anymore. An A would probably push me in that direction, but I want to do it because I want it.

So J, the question is, would a confirmed A/OM cement your feelings right now about D? If not, are you in a place where you're good with a D and ready to move on, and not just use it as a tactic for recon?

Yes....if she was banging some other dude then I would file. If she is why wouldn't she want me to know? Why keep it a secret? Plan B is the only thing I can think of. When should we get tired of being plan B? I am good with D...it doesn't scare me like it did 7 mths ago.

Throughout my entire sitch the W has been the one to pull the strings. She wanted a D, she wanted to move out, etc. Sure I sped it up, made some financial decisions, etc. but ultimately she was the one that wanted to go. I don't think she has really been faced with the prospect of me moving on and the real potential of loosing me. That is what I struggle with the most. That no matter how I don't pursue, engage, and all the stuff we talk about she still knows in the back of her head that I am there. I don't know what to do to change that.

In my sitch, if my W is to experience some loss IMO me filing could potentially be that loss. I agree not a tactic but how do you know when? She can file at any time....we don't have to be separated for a year in my state. Once the papers are filed though there is a 2 mth grace period. Is this dance just supposed to continue for ever? I mean $hit, I'm a young man. Bumble is starting to call my name

I am also starting to experience some resentment and loss of respect for her as well. I feel the resentment when I think about it being 7 months and not filing. This is what you wanted make it happen. Don't puss out on me now.....own it, man up, time to rock-n-roll.....don't throw something like this out there and wimp out. Trust me I am not begging for it but over time you start to feel resigned to your fate. Crap or get off the pot.

I guess to sum it up I am starting to run out of patience and am getting restless. I probably need to step up the GAL to get my mind off of the sitch. Then I think about looking weak.

The cycle................

I think you've captured a lot of the gray in this and just dealing with a lot of unknowns.

How do you find out if you're still Plan B or if she's done?
Is there an A or not?
Why isn't she filing? Is she second-guessing? Is she okay being in limbo?

(btw, I just found out today from a lawyer friend of mine that people can file six months in a separation, as it takes roughly six months to get to the court; wonder if W knows that)

I feel the same way about D being thrown around. She told me that is what she wanted twice after BD. So, what's holding her back?

I think I have a similar problem - how does she genuinely experience the loss? I don't feel DBing is doing that yet, and I have been good with the NC/Dark, even recently when I changed the approach a bit. I am still not pursuing and no R talks, so dunno what's going to give in this situation.

I strongly feel that my W has rationalized BD and subsequent actions as this is something that's good for both of us, but I don't see it yet. So, with me being happier and not an emotional wreck, she thinks she was justified in her decision and made the hard decision for both of us as it was going to be better. The NC/Dark then justifies it even more for her.

I seriously don't know why I am trying to get her back at this moment. I am wondering if you're in the same place.

I have no clue and I guess that is the piece that no one can answer.....the ultimate question of when you are done. H$ll M you are even younger than me........at your age you should be on Tinder

In the 6 months that I have been DBing the only change I can see is that her stance is softening. I don't see the anger or resentment in her eyes any more. If I text her something she will respond back, earlier on I would get nothing. I have also noticed her touching me more. Earlier on if we touched or she got too close she would pull back. I sort of feel she is starting to unwind but is that enough progress to continue????

I have no idea what to expect.

Quote:

I seriously don't know why I am trying to get her back at this moment. I am wondering if you're in the same place.

L asked me the same question. Do I miss my W or do I just miss the family unit being together. The longer this goes on the more distant I get from her and I start to miss the family unit even more. Even though it has only been 6 months it seems like forever and at times it is hard to imagine us coming back together to make it work.

Originally Posted By: Joseph9

There has been some soft evidence of intentions books

What is an intentions book?

Sorry need to proofread........

When she first moved out she had a Good Reads account that my mom and her where friends on(sort of like Facebook) and was reading books entitled the Ethical Slut and 50 Ways To Talk Dirty to Your Lover.

This happened within the first month of her moving out, I did approach her about the books and she made up some excuse/denied they meant anything. The funny thing is that she deleted her account. The general advice on the board at the time was circumstantial evidence and you can't convict based on what someone is reading. Also to be careful because it might cause her to take it more underground.

So I meant to say intentions by the books she was reading.

haha Tinder yeh. Well, will cross that bridge when the time comes. The whole online thing is such a foreign world to me that I will have to see when I am ready. It sounds kinda scary right now lol.

The only thing I have also seen is her softening over time. But, that doesn't mean $hit. As someone had pointed out, that could just be because of not putting any pressure. If that leads her to thinking that 'oh we can be friends now' - well f&*k that.

I miss the family unit piece more than anything right now too. I've had moments in the last few weeks where I've been nostalgic about intimacy and just having a close connection with her. That can be gained with someone else, but just the thought of starting from scratch just sounds exhausting - like I gotta tell a new person about my whole life.

I just read Blu and Storm's latest posts and piecing just sounds exhausting as well. So, either way, a lot of work needs to be done ahead.

I think I am getting closer to the point where if an A is confirmed and there is/was an OM, I'm probably done. It's not a reaction to the A, but just a combination of things and getting to a better place for myself. She can go sort herself out and I could care less.

I hear ya....I did snoop early on. Checked her cell phone records, who she was texting, I could also see pictures she was uploading to the Cloud but found no evidence of OM. I figured I would see a bunch of messages going back and forth, and pictures of her and him. Found nothing.......I did that for about a month after she moved out but it got the point to where it wasn't helping me emotionally and it was quite exhausting. I finally got to the point to where I didn't think about doing it any more and it really didn't matter.

Yeah I know what you're saying. At this point, I have no snooping abilities to find out anything. So, then it just comes down to me and what I want and where I am at. I know you're riding out the holidays and maybe you'll get something from her or not. If you don't, then 2018 will be a decision making year.

It will be interesting if she wants to spend the night at the house Christmas Eve or not. She already indicated Christmas Eve we would do something together as a family. I surely don't want to get into this discussion on Christmas Eve....that would not be a good Segway to take a ride on the J9 Fun Bus.

She is going to her brother's house in Cali for New Years Eve and coming back on Jan 5th. I guess she doesn't want to spend New Years ringing it in with OM

So maybe we will end up discussing when she returns.

Who knows. Going out tonight with some friends so looking forward to that.

Originally Posted By: Joseph9

Yes....if she was banging some other dude then I would file. If she is why wouldn't she want me to know? Why keep it a secret?

This is the second time I answered this question in the last two weeks. She doesn't want to be look at as an adulterer. Family, friends and eventually when old enough your children would know. Not to mention now she can blame it on you. If there is an OP that is all on her.

Just out of curiosity, how did she explain away those books?

Hey L...makes sense.

I remember telling her as it was in the same conversation I had with her about this dude coming up and dancing with her.

I asked her what the hell was going on with this guy and if she wanted to be with him. She said no, shook her head and said it was something stupid. I said well at least is he better than me and she shook ahead no again I could tell she was embarrased and ashamed. Then I I asked her about the books, what they were and that my mom found them. She started crying again acting ashamed. I reminded her she was a school teacher and that anyone could view what she was reading. If a student or parent saw this it may look favorable on her and she just needs to be careful. Then she got kind of mad because she felt like people were keeping track of her. I told her I didn't really care and if there is someone else just let me know. Just tell me. She denied it, said there was no one else and said the books were stupid. One of which she took back and the other was a recommendation from a friend. Then the next day she deleted her Good Reads account.

Just remember I was less than a month in and my head realing. I will say though that I didn't like how she made me feel this day and that was the day I really started withdrawing myself from the equation. Truthfully I never believed a word she said but I had no hard evidence. I really thought I was going to find something when I was snooping but I didn't. However it has always been in the back of my mind. I also felt like I was in high school.

So when I think about getting a D and pushing forward myself I think about this day, I think about the I don't love you, I am not attracted to you, the attitude she showed me early on, her acting like her $hit didn't stink and was so much better than me. I think about if I have been played for a chump the entire time and my only saving grace is that we are separated and I am no longer pursuing. Anyways thats it.

J,

Just hang in there man until after the holidays. Our wives are going through some $hit that isn�t going to end anytime soon. I�m drinking a beer laughing my ass to the show The Ranch on Netflix. It�s hilarious.

Have a good weekend!

Thanks man u2....I need to check that show out. Been slacking on my Netflix stuff lately!

Went to the gym this am and then did some Christmas shopping for the girls. W lost her keys to the apt and her car. You will never guess who she called in a panic??? Yep, big daddy. Lessoned learned that what they project on the exterior may not match how or what they feel on the inside.

Anyway....weekend is good. Drinking a beer getting ready to watch some football!

Hey all, had a good weekend. Went out on Friday night with some buddies for a few drinks at a local establishment. Didn't see any ladies I would be interested in but it was good to get out and socialize.

My youngest had a basketball game on Saturday morning. She scored 6 pts and had a couple good assists so that was cool.

Saturday afternoon I did some Christmas shopping. My W is an Ohio St. alumni so I got her an Ohio St. Yeti cup which will be the girls present to her. I then got my girls a couple of duffle bags for their soccer gear and then went to this little girls store called Justice and got them some bath balms, press on nails, lip gloss, face masks, stuff like that. I was the only dude in the store but it was kinda cool.

Didn't so anything on Saturday night, just chilled out and watched some football. Did the same yesterday as it was cold and rainy here in my part of Texas. Just had a lazy day of doing nothing.

Had some interaction with the W over the weekend but nothing to write about. Just did some texting back and forth on the girls Christmas gifts and drop off times for yesterday. I can tell she is not as wound up but is still no where near thinking about recon.

I have my D's this week which I am happy for since it is the week before Christmas and my W did not decorate her apartment. Hopefully they will be able to get into the spirit since they are home with their tree and their Elf Henry. My youngest had her Christmas party at school this morning so skipped out of work for a few to attend. The kids really love when the parents come to school. Will hit the gym tonight after work and they settle into the evening routine with the kiddos.

Still no word yet from my W on Christmas and if she is going to spend the night or not and be at the house on Christmas morning. I thought about reaching out to her about Christmas Eve and her thoughts on what she wanted to do but I decided not to. She said she wanted to do something together as a family so I will let her come to me. I don't want to appear all needy and start pursuing the Christmas plans.

Joseph I finally waded through all 10 threads, you joined when I was going through a dark time on the board so I missed a great deal of your journey.

You are standing being the lighthouse very well. I think so.

In posts with Doodler you chat about indifference. Indifference I is not ideal, the exact location is in detachment not Indifference. In other words you are able to cope with the outcome, fine if she comes for Xmas and fine if she does, great if you D (as if reunited new R) and terrific if you reconcile.

It's one of the things I observe on the board, the wayward knows when the LBS has reached that point of detachment and generally they react in any number of ways, including rage, Nutts and coming to their senses.

Whatever your WW does is her concern, it makes sense to her. Stop mind reading and detach.

When you are ready LRT is one way of demonstrating you have detached, and that doesn't always mean stopping standing or dating. It means getting on with your life and being prepared to move forward with it. Moving forward isn't moving on, neither is letting go. Both moving forward and letting go are both detachment techniques. You can include some standing and being friendly, leaving the path smooth etc.

Detaching also means there is no chance you can be plan B, 'W, I want you as my W, I will be friendly coparent and cooperate on an S. However I will not be your friend and I have set my limits on when I move forward with my life. That's for me to know and decide. From now on the practical side of your life is your own and is not my concern unless it affects our children.

W, your car broke down, your phone went bust, you lost your keys...that is tough for you, I sympathise. What are you going to do about it?

W, your fridge broke down, I am sure you can handle it.

On the other hand, W you broke your arm and can't drive, of course I will pick up the kids from school today, let's put a plan together to come with this. How long will your arm be in plaster? What alater natives have you put in place to cope with your share of the caring............

W, the kids and I have plans on boxing day to do X and etc.....

Detachment not Indifference.

Let me just discuss anger, it's great, a wonderful motivating thing and if directed can be your friend. I had too little of it, still do. The amazing Zues has real strong directive anger which makes him a winner. I lack that, operating from sadness (not depression).

I sense that may also be you, what is your thought?

When anger does hit you, it will likely be overpowering and hard to deal with. Expect it.

I really enjoy your stance with your children, it is a delight to read and reminds me very much of the gentle SH whose two Ds are the delight of his life. They still very much are and he has had one phenomenal healing journey. This is the start if you let it.

You will heal and grow through this, one day in detached mode you may meander to surviving the D with the battle scarred of the board who live new and happy lives.

We are here to repair our R, and end up repairing ourselves, with or without our spouse. That is the true journey and in your case I think you are well on your way.

I recommend detaching it's a great space to be in.

V

Hey V......I think I feel indifference more when my anger starts to creep in. Throughout my journey I have never once released my anger towards my W. I have channeled it a few times in the weight room but she hasn't seen it.

I think the hard part for me has been trying to strike a balance between being that lighthouse, having the path back smooth, being a good co-parent, etc. while also detaching to the point to where my actions stir emotion in her like you described. I realize that is a work in progress.

With that said I have detached in many way but I realize not completely. I sleep good at night and no longer have that pit in my stomach, I am no longer nervous around her and am much more comfortable with my conversation, I don't find myself constantly wondering what she is doing or where is at. It will cross my mind but I usually process it and move on. I used to dread having my children because of how she was spending her time but now I take them every chance I get because I love spending time with them.

I still have periods of sadness but everyone that knows me is amazed at how well I am doing. My D's are extremely happy and I think my handling of the situation has had something to do with it.

The only thing that really stirs my emotions are my D's. when I talk about them during my IC sessions I really break down. My W no longer stirs those emotions in me. Start to talk about my D's and I cry every time. I am tearing up as I type.

I know I will be fine either way. I am good with the outcome as I know who I am as a person, my values and the type of husband and father I am/was. I did get lazy in my MR however this journey my W is on is about her not me.

I know I have to continue working on detachment and I have been given a few 2x4's on mind reading

. Thank you for your positive words and encouragement. Some times when your in the weeds it's hard to see that your on the right path.

Thanks again!!

Just a brief word on dads and DDs. In the last few weeks I have lost my beloved aged pa at 96 years young.

I am his little girl still, and until the day he died he told me he loved me, hugged me and believed in me. Your Ds are as you say very precious. It's good to cry and feel. If I told you aged pa was a happy man and was very loved and respected that is the highest honor at the end of a life you can have.

And if the idea of V being a little one brings a smile that's intended. Your arms, your love, your quiet strength will stabilise your daughters.

So brave heart, cry also with joy for you are truly blessed.

V

V.....I am very sorry but how lucky you were to have him in your life for such a long time. He sounds like a wonderful man and I hope that at the end of my life I can say the same thing. When it comes to these girls I take my role very seriously and yes I am truly blessed!

Your post brought tears to my eyes again. When I think of my D's and the family they don't have it makes me very sad (then at times the anger comes). My parents got D when I was very young and I always swore that I would never get D because I wanted my kids to experience something that I never did. An intact family and their home that they could always come home to with their M and D waiting for them. Hence the main reason I am on this journey.

I am that guy who is blessed with 2 beautiful D's that I know if we had a 3rd child it would have been another D, same with the 4th, 5th and so on. I just knew that it was my destiny. I am laid back, easy going but when it comes to those girls I will cry at the drop of a hat. They are so sweet, so innocent, so brave and it is the part of this situation that breaks my heart.

My heart will heal and I can find new love but they don't deserve this and as their protector it hurts.

Originally Posted By: Joseph9

My parents got D when I was very young and I always swore that I would never get D because I wanted my kids to experience something that I never did. An intact family and their home that they could always come home to with their M and D waiting for them.

Man, it suddenly got real dusty in here.

[[[Bro hug]]]

You just got me as well. My DD at 7 has everything in front of her and I don't want her, as an only child, going through a disturbing childhood if I can avoid it as of course it will scar her for life (as it has done for my W) keep hanging in there

No it won't scar her. Be the best effin dad ever for her and she wil flourish. You thinking that just because you get D'd that your D will suffer immeasurable pain is just silly.

Oh man! Waterfalls here too. As I've said it's the only thing that gets to me now. Feel your pain, but behind that is overflowing love and I make sure to show that to my lil ones every single minute I am with them.

Originally Posted By: Joseph9

When I think of my D's and the family they don't have it makes me very sad (then at times the anger comes).

J,

I know you lived it yourself and no better then I do, but as you know I have been fighting most to keep my family intact. One day I expressed my concern to my counselor using the term "no more family unit".

She said "LH you will still be a family. The only difference is your W and you will live in separate homes". After hearing that it has become a little easier to now picture this type of dynamic in my mind.

You survived a D and you turned into a great man and an awesome dad! I am sure your daughters will do the same.

Just remember, it ain't over to the fat lady sings!

Keep on keeping on!

Let me share a little story.

My parents were divorced when I was 17, but the time leading up to then was a very rough childhood. And I will tell you it was because of my dad I am who I am today.

One thing I desired in this world was a "normal" family. Me, a husband and 2 kids, intact. Family holidays, vacations, ect. Of course, I wanted my daughter to have everything I didn't.

I had always had a fear of being a single mother. I didn't see it in my cards. Well, my ex ended up being infertile, and we had to do IVF. He began cheating on me in that pregnancy and gone when she was 6 months old. ANd holy crap! Here I was, a 27 year old single mother to a baby. And I am an only child and a motherless mother. I was scare shi!tless for me and for my D10. Everything I worked hard towards not happening, happened.

And you know what? My D10 is a well adjusted happy thriving girl who does exceptionally well in school, is very helpful in the home, and embraces her families in both places. Sure, going back and forth is a pain in her butt sometimes. Sure, her dad is a bit of a douche. Sure, even despite that, she misses him from time to time (we do not have 50/50 custody). But otherwise, she is really enjoying her life. She is a happy healthy little girl. I do have fear for issues around relationships when she is older because her dad is not doing a good job there at all. But that is who he is and probably would have been worse if she had to watch him treat me that way, rather than OWW. For me, I am sad that she hasn't gotten the chance to se me in a long term healthy R, but it is what it is. I am also sad I never got the chance for another child, but I am an only child and I did ok.

I still get angry sometimes, but it dissipates because I see how well my daughter is doing.

Thanks L and G....I appreciate your thoughts and insight. Some times you feel like your walking the Green Mile!

L - My D's being so well adjusted to this and seemingly happy has definitely helped. Certainly helps with the pain. Thanks for the motivation!

G - I am there with you on that, I know I will be a great single father but man I so much wanted them to have what I did not. How did you ever get over the anger of your XH walking out the door on you with a 6 month old???? And you state he is just a bit of a douche? Pretty amazing if you ask me

and your D is as awesome as she is because of you and how you handled the situation. I am an only child as well.

Ok time to lock it up!

new thread

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2771930#Post2771930