Previous thread. Summary: 1.5 years ago, W wanted divorce. I found out she was in a PA with OM and an EA with my BIL.
I have made large strides in myself and my interactions with my W.
Recent events not initiated by me let my BIL know that I know about him and my W. I figured it was time to let my sister know since she was the only one in the dark.
W found out I told sister, probably from my BIL. W declared she will file for divorce this week...
....
Current status:
I am awake now, unable to sleep at 2am.
I keep running through my head that had I just left my sister in the dark, I would not be facing divorce and would have a much better chance at turning my marriage around.
The only response I had to my wife declaring she will file for divorce by Tuesday was that I did not think it is the right thing for the kids or us. She insisted it is happening. I asked if she would consider a separation. Again, her response was divorce filing this week.
I am looking for recommendations on what I need to be doing now with her moving forward with the divorce...?
Would this be the time for going dark since it seems I am past the 180s at this point?
First off, I am frustrated just reading about your journey. Now is the time to act "as if." Time to act as if you are moving on so it becomes a truth. Your wife has zero respect for you and is basically keeping your testicles in her purse. You need to show your children that a father and husband is supposed to be strong and dependable.
If your wife wants to go to grad school and check out of her kid's lives then by all means, step aside. Start setting up childcare when you have things to do and she refuses to parent. She wants a divorce? Fine, act as if it's in process. This means setting up child custody exchanges (I've recently made it clear to STBXWH that he will be responsible for arranging child care on his weeks) this had the result of shocking WH. He backpedaled and tried to assume I would take them if he had to work late and I clarified that it would not always be possible. I also sat down and had a talk about the splitting of assets, I am being fair and not spiteful but I get the house. Period. This caused WH to mumble about "it's unfair" but I think it also gave him a jolt about how finances are about to be tighter.
Your wife is underestimating how much adulting she will have to do when the divorce happens. She thinks that things will be the same when that isn't the fact. She will have to kiss grad school goodbye as the child support won't cover everything nonetheless schooling. So be CALM. When she spews, validate but stay the course. Start agreeing with her when she talks about marriage not being possible, my DB coach recommended that and it had the desired effect. WH stopped using it as a way to instigate an argument. Can't exactly argue with someone agreeing with your point, kwim?
I can't remember which poster (I went through a lot of older threads when the signature line showed a successful DB) but his wife was having an affair and cake eating. At point she began to cross into physically attacking the LBS and was screaming she wanted a divorce. He agreed and then left, went dark for about 2 weeks. His WW ate her words and came crawling back.
Now, with that said, this does not always result in reconciliation. Sometimes the WS will make the same mistake over and over again, jumping from one relationship to the next to seek outward validation. There is something broke inside them and will not be fixed until they hit the bottom. So what you need to do is let go and let them fall, anything else delays the desired result. If you stick to your side of the road and make yourself a stud then you win no matter what the WS does. You exposed the affair and now you need to stop temp checking your WW. Get out of the house (for trips not move), take the kids if necessary, and go on trips, local fall festivals, whatever. She needs to be in the empty house and feel the absence. She can't miss you if your there in her presence all the time. Stop caring about what she says or threatens. If she files then do whatever necessary to speed the process. In the meantime, start grooming yourself, wearing some cologne, go out with friends and don't tell her who you're with. WS are weird, they don't want you until they think someone else does.
I keep running through my head that had I just left my sister in the dark, I would not be facing divorce and would have a much better chance at turning my marriage around.
2x4. Sorry.
Let me reword this for you: "If only I had allowed my wife to quietly continue her affair, if only I'd allowed my wife and brother in law to keep my sister in the dark, I'd have a better chance of turning my marriage around."
Does that sound like a rational place to be?
We ALL have the "if only I'd done this" thoughts. I promise you that before this is over, your W will absolutely, positively, put the blame on you for her affair, for continuing her affair, and for deciding your M was over because YOU had a problem with her affair.
Easier said than done, but you HAVE to start focusing on you. HAVE to work on being the best Tate that you can be. It MIGHT save your M, it might not, but it absolutely WILL save YOU.
You have no control over her. Over what she does. Who she does it with. You only control yourself. Latch on to that, and BE the person YOU want to be. If you want to fix your M, then be the H only a FOOL would leave. Even if you lose your M, at least you've still done the work to be that man.
Paysara, thanks for your thoughts. I agree that my W has no idea how much she eould miss me and time with the kids. The logistics of going dark are difficult...I need to take care of the kids 2 evenings per week. It is also difficult to tell if this would backfire...my W has been thinking of leaving for years.
I think it is important to bring up that Ibmentioned that I had a disorder, cleanliness OCD for objects, that is now under control. There was a time when it was not. Actions my W did would cause me anguish. I would ask her not to do them, then she would anyway. I would get mad at her and/or plead with her to stop. She saw me as being very negative and has even said that I was verbally abusive. I do not think I was, but it was in her mind.
As an example, last weekend, I was having a bad day, she did some furniture moving in my sons room. I had asked her to let me shampoo the carpet in that are before she moved the furniture. She told me it did not matter and got mad at me for bringing it up. I got mad and said she did a "half assed job". In her talk about filing for divorce, she cited that I "called her a half-ass".
She historically goes out of town a lot with the kids, so I know how lonely it feels after just a day and a half by myself. I do not have an excuse to stay overnight out of town without her. The only people I could do that with are my parents. I have thought of just taking the kids on a mini vacation to another city just to do some exploring also.
I am new to the filing for divorce process...are there resources here for what to do? My wife doesnt realize that filing is just the start. She literally said she would meet with a lawyer and be done by mid week.
It sounds out of place right now, but she already layed out a plan for her to keep tge house and me to leave. I honestly have poured my heart and soul into this house and do not want to lose it if this all follows through. Any advice?
I know my sister needed to know. Everyone here was right all along that we cannot reconcile with the EA continuing.
I know my sister needed to know. Everyone here was right all along that we cannot reconcile with the EA continuing.
so you think the more people who know of it, the easier your wife will find it to
1) end the EA
and 2) want to reconcile
and
3) do all the work required for "piecing"?
Paysara, thanks for your thoughts. I agree that my W has no idea how much she eould miss me and time with the kids. The logistics of going dark are difficult...I need to take care of the kids 2 evenings per week. It is also difficult to tell if this would backfire...my W has been thinking of leaving for years.
what have you and your w done to improve the dynamics of your m?
Would SHE say you have changed anything that harmed the m?
I think it is important to bring up that Ibmentioned that I had a disorder, cleanliness OCD for objects, that is now under control. There was a time when it was not.
What do you mean, "it's now under control"?
And when you say it's for objects, are you saying
that it does not affect how you react to people?
Actions my W did would cause me anguish. I would ask her not to do them, then she would anyway. I would get mad at her and/or plead with her to stop.
see my point? I'm not trying to hammer you here, just reframing it so you can see her point. Not to agree but to stop fueling her negative images. That's what 180's can do, and when there are valid issues for us to work on, for our lives, and our relationships, it's important.
She saw me as being very negative and has even said that I was verbally abusive. I do not think I was, but it was in her mind.
First, as you know, what matters most is what she believes at this time, and second, there may be some validity anyway.
Because being chewed out or having a spouse lose their temper and criticize is not healthy or loving. Probably feels like abuse. (Your words were that you "got mad, pleaded, and she caused you "anguish" about cleaning in a certain way)
As for being negative, can you see how OCD can be viewed that way, to someone who does not share that condition?
As an example, last weekend, I was having a bad day,
what does this mean or justify?^^^
If you have "a bad day", do you get carte blanch on how you treat others?
(I'm asking).
she did some furniture moving in my sons room. I had asked her to let me shampoo the carpet in that are before she moved the furniture.
Not that it matters, but When did you plan to shampoo it? Were you telling her everything had to wait until you were ready? See how you are framing things makes you a little helpless.
She told me it did not matter and got mad at me for bringing it up. I got mad and said she did a "half assed job". In her talk about filing for divorce, she cited that I "called her a half-ass".
to some folks, this^^ is the same thing. To others, it's not. I would not spend time worrying about it in terms of the divorce filing. But in terms of how you relate to your family I would.
She historically goes out of town a lot with the kids, so I know how lonely it feels after just a day and a half by myself. I do not have an excuse to stay overnight out of town without her. The only people I could do that with are my parents. I have thought of just taking the kids on a mini vacation to another city just to do some exploring also.
how are those plans going?
I am new to the filing for divorce process...are there resources here for what to do? My wife doesnt realize that filing is just the start. She literally said she would meet with a lawyer and be done by mid week.
There are DivorceCare groups all around the country. Practically free and very worthwhile. IT's a support group with people on the same path and many who do not want to be. There are also inexpensive seminars on this topic you can attend just to know what to expect.
Also, see a lawyer asap to protect your financial rights (you need "Do" nothing. Just get information).
And what about seeing an IC for your issues? Would your wife consider attending Retrovaille with you?
You can maybe say it's about helping with the kids, because I don't think it matters how you guys get there. NO I don't mean to lie, I mean you don't have to stress that you want to save the marriage.
Retrovaille is a retreat sponsored by the Catholic Church but You do NOT have to be Catholic or even Christian to attend. (My h is not Catholic and that was an issue for him. But there was no preaching and no dogma presented. They said a prayer after each evening.)
It was a powerful weekend for us and they have a very good track record.
Note - only couples who are considering OR in the divorce process already, attend Retrovaille. So you'd be in good company.
It sounds out of place right now, but she already layed out a plan for her to keep tge house and me to leave. I honestly have poured my heart and soul into this house and do not want to lose it if this all follows through. Any advice?
Stop making it harder for her to want to work on things. My DB coach said to "keep the road home, paved & smooth." You can disagree if you want, but it's a DB tenet.
What are your 180s?
180s have 2 (or more) functions.
1) you can choose to improve something about yourself (and that is always a good thing.)
2) AND OR
the 180 can serve to undermine the negatives she has of the marriage or you.
It confuses her if she has always said you are "negative and rigid," but instead you show her the PMA you have, and you are more relaxed and easy going.
What kind of a "jerk" Likes playing with his kids?? What kind of "OCD rigid negative" guy enjoys a relaxed evening in which the kids change their minds about what movie or game to play, and he's fine either way?
For example, If she thought you were "always late", you would become Mr PUNCTUAL and you'd be on time or early to everything.
That ^^would show her that her "data" about you, is not real or is out of date.
Have you read the DB or divorce remedy books?
Set Short term goals, get a good counselor, don't fuel the negative images she has,
be the best dad you can be, start GAL for real,
Why not take that trip with the kids? One weekend, with a few activities planned BUT LOTS of flexibility built in...
not to show your w what it's like to be lonely, but to enjoy the kids on your own and to push your comfort levels outward.
Make sense?
Not sure what you are getting at 25yearsmic...the EA is with my BIL. My sister did not know. I resisted advice on here for 1.5 years to tell my sister. I told her because my BIL found out I knew as well. Everyone involved but my sister knew.
Not sure what you are getting at 25yearsmic...the EA is with my BIL. My sister did not know. I resisted advice on here for 1.5 years to tell my sister. I told her because my BIL found out I knew as well. Everyone involved but my sister knew.
That's fair.
But what is your goal, now? It really has to be clear (at least for the short term).
My primary goal is to at least get my W and I back into roommate mode in the very short term...ie have my W back to thinking a D is not the solution.
My W still says and has always said I am an awesome Dad. The last year has only made me stronger as a Dad. ...my 9 year old daughter will not stop hugging me every night at tuck in. She tells me good night and that I am the best dad in the world every night...
I am new to the filing for divorce process...are there resources here for what to do? My wife doesnt realize that filing is just the start. She literally said she would meet with a lawyer and be done by mid week.
It sounds out of place right now, but she already layed out a plan for her to keep tge house and me to leave. I honestly have poured my heart and soul into this house and do not want to lose it if this all follows through. Any advice?
Depends on what state you live in but most places are a 50/50 state. I live in Florida and all assets acquired during the marriage is considered communal property and therefore they have to be split 50/50. I have the advantage of my WH liking to own all his vehicles (2 cars and 4 motorcycles) and has agreed to let me have the house and he keeps his toys. Otherwise we'd have to seel the house or I would have to buy out his part of the 50%.
Your wife is delusional if she thinks this will be a short or painless process. Even filing takes time. I am buried underneath the financial affidavit and so I am making an appointment with my CPA to go over some of the more convoluted parts. This all takes time and money, and this is without a resistant spouse so far. If he decides to dog in his heels and make this complicated then it could run upwards of 50K....each. I did decide to make consults with all the highest rated family lawyers in town so WH couldn't use them. I am lucky in that they all offer free consults.
If you WW is not taking care of the kids as much make sure to document all of this. Keep a journal of how many hours she is spending with the kids each week. Every time she is late for her time then document. Judges could not care less about infidelity or emotional crap, they respond to documented facts.
Your goal should be more self-focued. You cannot make your wife react in any particular way but you can influence the outcome. So make your goals more concrete. For instance, I made myself goals about getting my hair done, started going to the gym, spending less time online and more time with my kids being "present."
so far our divorce has cost us about $50-60k
and we are not done. It's a community property state and a long marriage.
There is no real estate now, and our kids are grown or in college.
No child support to argue and no custody to dispute. I filed 11 months ago.
If we have a trial, it'll be close to or above $100k in legal fees.
IF we settle before hand, it'll be a total of maybe $70k altogether.
The only issue is money.
Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes settled their divorce (custody and property)
in under 2 weeks but it was not finalized till the 6 month waiting period was over.
Are you in Nevada?
stop asking your w to slow down or not file.
That's so much pursuit.
Have you read the 37 "rules" Sandi assembled? ( Yes they really are guidelines but still, are you doing those?)
No more arguing with her about why she should not file or why she "Should" stay m.
Be the better choice and prepare to move away or not be near your BIL if you do reconcile.
And as much as I usually do not support telling others, I did not know it was your sister.
Plus it's done now. How is your sister?
My W still says and has always said I am an awesome Dad. The last year has only made me stronger as a Dad. ...my 9 year old daughter will not stop hugging me every night at tuck in. She tells me good night and that I am the best dad in the world every night...
^^^this is great. Keep it up.
Response to W and time with kids...My W is a teacher, and all 3 of our kids attend the school she works at. They go to afterschool care for an hour to work on homework, then she brings them home. They are all home by 4:30 pm, and I get home by 6 pm. Two evenings per week, I go to exercise with a group of friends right when I get home. She used to exercise two of the other evenings. We all exercise saturday morning, including our kids.
My W is in grad school now, so two evenings per week, I do not see her until 9:30 pm. She puts the kids ahead of her work, so she works from the time they go to bed until 1 am, sleeps on couch, gets up at 5 am to work until kids get up at 6:30 am, and they head out to school. I take the kids to school whenever they want to go in 20 minutes later.
My W started on crazy schedules like this when she started working again after 8 years off with our kids. This is also the time our marriage really started going downhill. She has been working 3 years now.
In response to pursuing...I only told my W that I did not think a D was best for the kids or us. I hsve not said anything about it since and have been easy to be around.
My BIL is lying to my sister, telling her he was on a different page than my W. I have seen the texts from both and know they were on the exact same page.
My Sister is in denial saying he just was not thinking. She is also in denial as to how their marriage is doing...they are living like room mates also, but she thinks it is a phase.
My situation is difficult to detach because one complaint of my W was that I eould do my own thing and not go out of town with her all the time to visit relatives. She takes the kids out of town literally every other weekend...20,000 miles per year on her car. She is gone so much she cannot keep up with even unpacking from the last trip before she leaves again. I would stay home to get things done.
So, I do not want her to see my GAL as more of the same. This has been a major sticking point in me GAL.
I would stay home to get things done.
How is GALing more of the same?
Did you GAL before while you declined to go out of town or just act as maid/housekeeper/landscaper?
I was thinking along the lines of me doing things other than being with my family on travels being more of the same. My kids are young, so me going out while they are home is leaving tge family to do my own thing...or not spending time with the kids.
Just to give a quick update on my situation...I believe my wife was just giving a knee jerk reaction to finding out that I told my sister what is going on. My W is still smart enough to know that a D is not going to get that knowledge back.
Just to give a quick update on my situation...I believe my wife was just giving a knee jerk reaction to finding out that I told my sister what is going on. My W is still smart enough to know that a D is not going to get that knowledge back.
not sure what you mean.
As for the kids and not going to visit, just curious have you ever gone? And Is it all really b/c you needed to stay behind?
How did she feel about that?
My BIL is lying to my sister, telling her he was on a different page than my W. I have seen the texts from both and know they were on the exact same page.
My Sister is in denial saying he just was not thinking.
She is also in denial as to how their marriage is doing...they are living like room mates also, but she thinks it is a phase.
God help your poor sister. UGH...
how long have they been m and do they have kids?
not sure what you mean.
As for the kids and not going to visit, just curious have you ever gone? And Is it all really b/c you needed to stay behind?
How did she feel about that?
I meant that getting a D is not hoing to undo me telling my sister...my W was mad I told her.
Yeas, I travel out of town a lot with my W and kids...just not every single weekend she does. Our families live in two other cities 1.5 and 4 hours away. I visit with my W for every holiday, including long weekends like Labor Day. My W goes to literally every Birthday party...for all 10 of our kids cousins and all 16 adults...literally every other weekend.
My wife probably wanted me to go with her all the time early on in our marriage, but I would stay home many times to paint rooms, catch up on work so I could be home earlier on weekdays, etc. More recently, she preferred for me to not be there on trips.
not to throw a wrench in the engine, but did you guys want to live back there?
Is it a job thing?
No. My wife and I both like living in the city we are in. My family is all 4 hours away. Her family is 1.5 to 4 hours away.
My W has not acted on her decision to file for a divorce. In the moment, I absolutely believed her, bit now I do not think she is going to file.
Part of her change of heart is that our computer died and our air conditioning went out since then. I fixed both...not that it is a teason to not divorce, but it shows her how much I do for her on a daily basis. She has never once thsnked me gor keeping the household running smoothly.
So this weekend, I planned several outings for the family. As usual, my W said she needs to stay home to get school work done. The last time she did this was when she took the day off and accidentally texted me the love note meant for my BIL.
My wife is GAL and detaching as well. Does GAL and detaching eork if both partners do them? It seems like it would just make us more like strangers living in the same house...
My wife is GAL and detaching as well. Does GAL and detaching eork if both partners do them? It seems like it would just make us more like strangers living in the same house...
The situation right now is your W is so done with you and the M that just seeing you and hearing you repulses her. GAL and detaching does two things- 1) it gives her the time and space away from you that she needs to get over being angry and resentful and hopefully (eventually) to start remembering that maybe the M wasn't so bad after all; and 2) it gives you the times and space away from her that you need to start healing, finding yourself and become more independent. GAL and detaching doesn't save the M in and of itself, it paves the way to you becoming the "spouse only a fool would leave" which she may find attractive down the road.
When I read comments like this I sense some impatience, it's like you're really saying "it's not working, should I try to pursue instead?" NO, DO NOT PURSUE. You have a very long road ahead, you need more patience then you've probably ever needed for anything else in your life.
The situation right now is your W is so done with you and the M that just seeing you and hearing you repulses her. GAL and detaching does two things- 1) it gives her the time and space away from you that she needs to get over being angry and resentful and hopefully (eventually) to start remembering that maybe the M wasn't so bad after all; and 2) it gives you the times and space away from her that you need to start healing, finding yourself and become more independent. GAL and detaching doesn't save the M in and of itself, it paves the way to you becoming the "spouse only a fool would leave" which she may find attractive down the road.
IMO this paragraph is DB in a nutshell. When you start healing, find yourself and become more independent, IT CHANGES YOUR MINDSET COMPLETELY. What you thought you wanted may no longer be the case anymore.
[quote=Tate]My W has not acted on her decision to file for a divorce. In the moment, I absolutely believed her, bit now I do not think she is going to file.
She may not. She may have meant it when she said it, or hurled it out in anger,
and Or She may put you in an impossible situation, effectively daring you to file
so she can hold you responsible or so you can solve her dilemma...
Or she may be second guessing her "negative data" about you.
My only advice in this regard is to stay out of her head. It's crowded in there. Don't make yourself nuts.
your kids need you to be their rock. \
Being preoccupied by what you think she is doing/planning/feeling, is not being fully available to the kids.
That ^^ Is a regret I have about my own DB history.
Part of her change of heart is that our computer died and our air conditioning went out since then.
GW, you are really^^ inserting yourself into every action/inaction on her end. That's the opposite of detachment and will make you go crazy in a painful way.
I fixed both...not that it is a teason to not divorce, but it shows her how much I do for her on a daily basis.
^^^this is a good thing for the family, right? Okay that's great. I'm impressed by your repair skills. Seriously.
But this whole post is about what you think - she thinks OR what you think she feels - and why...
She has never once thsnked me gor keeping the household running smoothly.
Well, don't expect thanks for you keeping the house running smoothly. And try not to need her validation, okay?
Even if you were in a healthy marriage now, it's a big burden to put our self esteem on the shoulders of a spouse,
just know you "done good stuff", and work to GAL, which I know is complicated.
Maybe a meet up group? They are not dating sites (not usually) so don't worry about that piece. It's just that they are flexible.
Hang in there
and please try to keep the focus OFF HER, and ON YOU...there are free meditation apps called
"Insight Timer" and another one called "Calm". They can help with the spinning.
My wife is GAL and detaching as well.
No, your wife is wayward.
Thanks for the support. I would like to paint a picture of my life to see if anyone has suggestions.
So it seems that when I am home, I should be spending most of my time with the kids. I do this. I also spend time in my own projects...work on my car and I just bought and set up an electronic drumset (read: quiet). My kids love it, and coming from a competitive drumline background, I always wanted to pick up drum set. I can tell my wife hates it.
The going out thing is difficult. I have to watch the kids two weekday evenings. Two other evenings and Saturday morning, I do group sports. That leaves Friday, Sat, and Sun evenings open to go out. Sunday evenings is my relaxation time with the kids...usually playing games or watching a movie. My wife never joins us. Even when our marriage was going pretty well, she would never relax with us.
I usually work on projects Saturday afternoon...lawn, car work, painting, etc. Sunday morning is church. I love spending time with my kids, 10, 9, and 7 yrs old.
I had a day planned with the kids yesterday going to fall events. My W said she needed to stay home to get school work done...only getting 5 hours of sleep per night and all. Made sense to me.
So, the kids and I go out and have a great day. We come back, and my W is cleaning a bathroom. Not sure what she did while we were gone for 8 hours, but it was not school work, and only 1 hour of chores were done. It seems she just does not want to do anything I plan for the kids or family. I am thinking I should just plan tons of stuff that she will likely miss out on by not joining us.
I had a day planned with the kids yesterday going to fall events. My W said she needed to stay home to get school work done...only getting 5 hours of sleep per night and all. Made sense to me.
So, the kids and I go out and have a great day. We come back, and my W is cleaning a bathroom. Not sure what she did while we were gone for 8 hours, but it was not school work, and only 1 hour of chores were done. It seems she just does not want to do anything I plan for the kids or family. I am thinking I should just plan tons of stuff that she will likely miss out on by not joining us.
Well, your wife is having an EA and she is mad at you for telling your sister. So, no, she doesn't want to have family days. This is not surprising, and I wouldn't expect her to want to. She has checked out of the marriage. So you continue having a great time with your kids and she will spend time with them on her own.
W is planning a Halloween party for next weekend. Knowing her, she won't be ready for it. Normally, I would pick up all the slack and get things ready. I guess I should NOT help her get ready? I know she will see me not helping her and get mad at me.
Even when our marriage was going pretty well, she would never relax with us.
It's interesting to me that you make comments like this when you also comment about how you would never spend time with her and the kids going out of town visiting relatives. After spending a weekend "single-parenting" my kids, I would not imagine sitting down to a board game with them to be a relaxing way to spend a Sunday night.
Oh, no, dont get the idea that I never go out of town with them. I probably join them 75 percent of the time, and nearly every time over the last year.
My W finds excuses to not do things as a family at home.
Another tidbit is that my wife is constantly using me as a sounding board for her daily problems and asking me for help with things in the evenings...setting up her work laptop, putting up pictures, etc. I have been helping her only when she asks (even if I see her struggling with something), and I keep it brief. Is this the right way to handle these requests?
What do you mean by sounding board?
Sorry about slow responses...its been hectic lately. Sounding board, as in she tells me about her day, problems at her job, etc. For someone who insists she does not even like me as a friend anymore, she sure likes to talk to me.
Today, my W tried to start an argument about a recurring topic: she wants me to sleep on the couch on Friday nights so she can sleep in bed and I will not wake her up in the morning when I get ready to exercise.
My W started sleeping on the couch and absolutely refuses to sleep in the bed if I am there. I refuse to sleep on the couch to accommodate her. She insists she is not getting enough sleep due to work and grad school and I need to do this for her. I stood my ground again, suggesting she sleep in bed. She got bitterly angry. My only response was that her schedule is not predictable, staying up until 2 am one night, then crashing on the couch at 9 pm the next. So, I was in the middle of doing chores when she wanted all the lights out so she could sleep on the couch at 9 pm. I did not quite suggest that she evens out her sleep schedule because I figured this would just make her furious...but it is the truth. If she planned a day further ahead, she would get the same work done and get on a stable sleep schedule. And, I would at least know when she wants it quiet to sleep.
I know I need, and want, to stand my ground on this, but she is getting bitterly angry every Friday evening when I am keeping her up past 9 pm as she is choosing to sleep on the couch.
W did not file for D as she said she would. I am doing 180s, detaching, and GAL: planning weekends with the kids and inviting but not expecting W to come with us, telling my W less of what I am doing or planning, spending more time doing things for myself instead of my W, working on my car more, and doing less projects around the house (historically the majority of my freetime).
Odd sequence of events to note from last weekend...my W planned a get together for my kids friends, hot dog roast, etc. In the middle of the day, she decided my daughter was too sick, cancelled her friends, and asked me to take my daughter out to dinner and a movie during the playdate.
I agreed to do this even though I thought my daughter just has allergies. I very nicely suggested to my W that it might be allergies. My W responded with something along the line that me not wanting to take my daughter out was me being self serving, not wanting daddy-daughter time, and me being negative. The worst was that after expressing this in front of all 3 kids, she concluded with a "this is why I hate you" comment.
I let this roll off my back and took my daughter out. We came back 30 minutes early because my daughter was tired. I found that my wife was not able to start the fire pit up on her own, leaving them to cook the hit dogs on the stove...
It really seems that anytime I disagree with my W, it turns into her accusing me of being negative and ending with a "this is why I hate you". Any advice on how to handle my W negative spin on everything I say?
This scenario reminds me of another thing my W started doing...interrupting my conversations with the kids to disagree with something I said...every single time I talk to the kids with her around.
Tate,
She doesn’t respect you. Never let your wife disrespect you like that especially in front of your kids.
You should read up on boundaries.
Tate,
She doesn’t respect you. Never let your wife disrespect you like that especially in front of your kids.
You should read up on boundaries.
Amen to this. Do not let those comments in front of your kids roll off your back. You tell her " I will not stand here while you disrespect me in front of our children" and walk away.
I would take the kids out with you when you go, even if only for a walk/drive.
That's horrible behavior. I suspect if she is left alone with them after one of her tantrums (which these absolutely are)
she'll engage in more character assassination of you. Eff that.
Tate, it's an untenable situation and I would not bother about where the heck SHE sleeps.
Nor would I ever ask her to get in the same bed as you. She does not deserve that. After a hateful tantrum like she had i'd want her on the couch.
Get a TV in YOUR bedroom if she's sleeping on the couch
or use headphones for your computer and watch what you want or read or dance, if she's sleeping on the couch.
Don't worry about her sleeping patterns, just yours and the kids.
ugh
I know it's disrespectful behavior on her part, obviously.
But calling it "disrespect" is almost giving her/it too much credit.
It's literally what an angry 3 year old would say, if you refused to take them to McDonalds.
Good insight from everyone...I fully agree that my W is horribly disrespectful. Its interesting that as I remove myself from my situation and look at it as an outsider like everyone here, I see all of the awful things my W has done and wonder why I have stayed with her for so long like this. I saw a marriage counselor several times when I first found out about my W and her affairs. One day, he looked at me blankly and asked why I wanted to stay with my W. It threw me off guard as I really could not explain why. I finally came to the conclusion that she has not always been this way.
I went through a lot of thinking when she first told me she wanted a D. I felt awful at first, but then I went through a period where I imagined a new life with some new, amazing woman. I was actually starting to look forward to the chance to meet someone new...
Tate,
Most people here put the partners on a pedestal and their relationships are based on the fantasy of what once was or what they believe it could be in the future.
The problem is you can ignore reality but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.
I am sorry to be blunt but your wife is a multiple cheater who has zero respect for you. Get your affairs in order and go see a lawyer. You deserve better!
LH19, you very well might be right, but I am not quite ready to throw in the towel. As a coach from another marriage program put it: you will know when it is time to quit.
Fair enough. Then IMO your first step is set some boundaries with her and get her to respect you.
Any tips on setting boundaries? I read Divorce Busting last year...maybe its time to read it again...
Any tips on setting boundaries?
Tate,
Boundaries seem to be the bane of the LBS. But, boundaries aren't really the issue; enforcement of the boundaries is the issue.
I looked to my wife as an example of how to enforce boundaries. She used her anger to control people. You knew that if you made her angry there'd be h3ll to pay. I learned from her and juiced things up by a factor of three (or maybe five). I finally told her to leave and gave her one week to move out.
I'm sure others have a different opinion, but I think you have to be ready and willing to push the spouse out the door. Something along the lines of, "You can continue the affair, but not while living in this house. If you want to continue the affair then pack a bag and get out."
Again, that's just my opinion.
Kicking my wife out seems a little extreme considering I am working to restore our marriage.
That said, there seems no way to enforce anything with my wife. She is completely satisfied living as roommates, and I cannot think of anything to use as a bargaining chip.
The only thing I can think of is going dark. This would put her in a tremendous bind and a lot of stress as I run just about everything in the household. There are two problems with going dark that I can see...it also puts my kids in a bad situation of nobody there to care of them two evenings a week (W in school) and several of the things I do for me (working on car, exercise equipment) are at our house forcing me to give those things up for the duration as well.
Tate,
I'm confused in a early post you say, "you are ready to throw in the towel", then you asked about boundaries. Then you were given information about setting and enforcing boundaries, and you back peddled. In this last post, you now say, kicking your wife out is a little extreme see, "how you are trying to work on the M". What is it going to be? Is kicking your wife out extreme? Is what your wife doing to you not extreme? Our choices as LBS are going to be extreme and hard. But I also understand we go back and forth as LBS in our emotions as well.
Kicking my wife out seems a little extreme considering I am working to restore our marriage.
a lot of DBing is counter intuitive. We want them back "all in", so we figure that convincing them to care about us/the marriage, and pursuing them will show them our value. But it's the opposite of what works, usually.
Backing off and letting the WAS see our value by us detaching, is what's most likely to generate success here.
Not saying it'll all lead to a full on recon, but them noticing that they are losing a good catch almost always requires the LBSer backing off and at least acting as if they are DONE.
The LBS who sits around waiting, and being there "in case", (& calling it "working on the m") is the way the WAS can do anything they want, and not worry about losing their LBS.
That is the point of most of the advice you are getting.
That said, there seems no way to enforce anything with my wife.
but, You are not willing to enforce anything. So, see where we are going here?
She is completely satisfied living as roommates, and I cannot think of anything to use as a bargaining chip.
Yes she is completely satisfied with this.
Plan A for most affair spouses and for most "wanna be single" spouses, is to keep the stability of the family as their base, but without any responsibility or fidelity requirement
of them.
Only when they are forced to choose between Plan A and the unknown, might they make a choice the LBS wants.
The only thing I can think of is going dark. This would put her in a tremendous bind and a lot of stress as I run just about everything in the household. There are two problems with going dark that I can see...it also puts my kids in a bad situation of nobody there to care of them two evenings a week (W in school) and several of the things I do for me (working on car, exercise equipment) are at our house forcing me to give those things up for the duration as well.
I don't think you can go full on dark with kids and in the same house, if you mean "disappearing" (which is not going dark.)
You can act as if she does not exist apart from parenting matters and only in a skeletal way with no frills and no details. If you are presently caring for them 2 nights a week,
that's it. If you need to work on your car or exercise, find another place for those.
You cannot detach by hanging around the home she lives in. I'm just not sure what your living situation is going to be with you "going dark." What do you mean by that term?
PS
there is a belief among some, that filing for D is a way to wake someone up,
and or to protect yourself at the same time. (So if they don't wake up, the belief is that the LBS gets to the truth, faster - and loses less money in the settlement ).
Your wife is for all intents and purposes, living the life of a single woman. It's possible she will only file for D when having you in the house, becomes too inconvenient for her new way of living.
Are you watching the finances?
Tate,
Can I ask you a question? Or you trying no to hurt your wife feelings? Or you trying not to make her upset or mad at you?
Because it seems as if you are trying your hardest not to rock the boat. I think I posted it to you before, but you should read, "tough love", it's a big eye opener and how you can't condone certain actions and how you have to create that early conflict with your spouse to sake them up. You don't argue with them, but you state what you won't tolerate from them and that you are only willing to love a certain way. You make that statement from a position of confidence and certainty, never looking back if they decide that they are not willing to except the boundaries you laid out.
Without this tough love, you are not really showing your S love. A person who really loves a person, informs them of what they have done wrong. The author uses the drug addicted scenario a lot.
If you child was on drugs would you accept them using drugs? Would you allow them to use drugs in your home and would you fund their drug habit? If the answer to all the questions are no, then apply that same principle to your wife.
If your child continue using drugs, what would your hard stand be. In your mind what would you have to do to help your child make a hard decision to get help to get help. I know funding it and allowing them to use in your home, wouldn't be an option. Right!
Look at your W as a drug addicted, would kicking her out help or hurt her in the long run, not the day of.
You may not see any similarity in your W with the one I write about below. I don't know if your W has always had these tenencies or not, but if she has....it may take more than you are prepared to do, before there is a positive change, if ever. Tiptoeing around her anger is not a solution for a long term relationship.
I have known a woman who has always used her anger\temper to control those closest to her. She learned how to manipulate adults at a very young age, and she was hateful and a bully to all the other children. I was a teenager at the time, and I had a front row seat to observe her behavior, and I saw things that simply floored me. When she became a teen, her behavior grew worse. She didn't get into drugs, or trouble with the law, or any thing of that nature, she just had a larger sense of entitlement, more demanding, and used her anger to control her parents, grandparents, etc.
She has been M four times, so far......and is the biggest b'tch I have ever had the displeasure of knowing. She has never had friends, b\c nobody can stand to be around her. I have always said her family ruined her when she was small. She was the only child and only grandchild and they allowed her to say terrible things to them and others, throw tantrums, scream threats, etc. They gave in to her demands, almost every time. She was never disciplined, and if one parent tried, then a grandparent stepped in and prevented it. Nobody could stand her as a kid or as an adult. Sadly, nobody could stand to live with her, either. To this day, she has not improved herself. She still wants to control those who come into her life. She puts her wants and needs above her children and her husband. She still has no friends, and her parents and GP's are deceased.
Knowing the family she was born into, I don't know if she would have had much of a chance when she was a child. They were not bad people, but they did not do this child service by treating her like royalty.
As an adult, I think we can evaluate ourselves to see why people don't want to be around us and be our friend.....and why we act so ugly to our family. I see where her life could have been so much better if she would have just stopped the selfish and controlling ways.
This seemed to be a case where the W already has the format for being a wayward W. In other words, she appeared to be wayward before she ever M the first H (who was a very nice guy). By having the format, I mean she already had the selfish nature; resented anyone that crossed her; was already rebellious toward her parents, etc. She uses manipulation, controlling, bullying, and her bad temper as her usual MO. The poor guy that marries this type of woman is just asking for a miserable MR......unless he is not afraid to use tough love when the situation calls for it.
There have been many cases here on the board like this, and adding infidelity to the mix is not a long stretch for her. I have little hope for her, b\c this has been a lifelong behavior. It may be possible for her to change, but I think she would need to want that change more than anything in life. It would take a lot of work and training. She would need a new heart.
Unlike the W who becomes wayward later, as the result of resentment, disrespect and rebellion directed toward her H.....the lifelong wayward (for lack of a better term ATM), does not have a previous positive "self" she can relate to as being the unselfish, giving, respectful, undemanding, truly loving human being. She has little to no positive experience with relationships that she didn't control with her moods. Her manipulation is second nature for her. So, IMHO, she would be tackling lifelong ingrained behaviors that would require more than experiencing remorseful feelings and asking for forgiveness. It would require her to remake herself inside out. Good intentions doesn't cut it, and the reality of just how hard it is to change, comes smacking her in the face very quickly. Can it be done? IDK, quite honestly. I think age might matter.....and how badly she wanted to change. Once the heart has radical change, it helps produce positive actions. However, it takes strong determination to stick to improvements.
I wonder if you love the person you wish your W was, and if it's the idea of losing the entire "family" and home setting scares you more than what reality holds. IDK, but I think everyone I am seeing post to you agrees that what you are currently doing is not going to be enough to change the dynamics of your MR.
To answer some questions...yes, I stated I feel like thriwing in the towel. I have had this thought pattern before my W said she wanted a D the first time a year and a half ago. I would try and try to be the perfect husband with no effort from her, so I would ponder whether I try harder or more or give up and move on. Fast forward to now, and I have an internal struggle of trying to save our M or kicking my W to the curb and moving on. I know now that her prior lack of effort was because she was having an affair.
Tate,
Can I ask you a question? Or you trying no to hurt your wife feelings? Or you trying not to make her upset or mad at you?
Because it seems as if you are trying your hardest not to rock the boat. I think I posted it to you before, but you should read, "tough love"
Unfortunately, the mistake I believe I keep making is getting sucked into my wifes argument traps. As an example, tonight I was outside working on my car while the kids were getting ready for bed. The kids were loud enough I could hear them at tge street. I poked my head in the garage door and asked them to keep it down. I asked them where my W was since she did not seem to be doing anything about them yelling at the top of their lungs.
Just before bed tonight, she brought it up and said that she did ask the kids to quiet down and they did not. She went on to say that she did not like my attitude for assuming she did not try to quiet the kids. My reply was that the kids were so loud that I stopped what I was doing to ask the to quiet it down, which they did. I should have stopped there, but I added that I did not care what she thought of how I handled the situation.
To respond to the questions about me not kicking her out of the house...I can ask her to leave, and her answer is "no". Then what? I cannot physically remove her...
The going dark thing is a reference to where members here simply leave their spouse unannounced for days or weeks. This shows the spouse that they are done with the marriage and gives the spouse a chance to miss them.
In my case, the kids need me home. My wife actually puts tge kids before everything, as do I. That is the only reason we are still living together right now. I handle every single car repair, home repair, taxes, insurance, major purchase, finances, yard work, home technology, etc. My wife takes care of the kids, works, and does some chores...nothing more.
The going dark thing is a reference to where members here simply leave their spouse unannounced for days or weeks. This shows the spouse that they are done with the marriage and gives the spouse a chance to miss them.
I dont think thats what it means. Its just cutting all contact and stopping any communication with spouse. In your case since you are in the same house it is difficult I guess. it would work well if you are living in separate places. I do not think leaving unannounced would be the correct way because it is supoose to be done respectfully. Leaving unannounced would be rude. I think you are in denial and not really ready to put boundaries or ask her to leave or respect you. For her life is normal and she can still have benefits of your presence and bills you take care of and go astray. If she loses those and arrangements change she may wake up and make a decision.
I think you need to go back and read up on "going dark".
I have never seen anyone say it was about just disappearing, etc. I think you're missing the point. Maybe a vet will jump in here and give you an abbreviated version of what it really means.
I would try and try to be the perfect husband
The problem with many nice-guy type of H is that his idea of what a perfect H
is......rarely is what a woman wants or really needs. With the Mr. Nice Guy mentality, the H tries to do everything so that his W doesn't need to lift a finger. He won't stand up for himself, even when she treats him badly. He thinks by not being decisive and letting her call all the shots will keep her in a better mood. Actually, these actions only cause her to feel a loss of attraction for you.
The going dark thing is a reference to where members here simply leave their spouse unannounced for days or weeks. This shows the spouse that they are done with the marriage and gives the spouse a chance to miss them.
No, this is not how Going Dark works. IMHO, you can't really go dark when you have children together......and especially living under the same roof with her. Neither is the motivation of Going Dark is to cause the spouse to miss you. I think it would be to your advantage to increase Getting a Life without her.
In my case, the kids need me home.
Then why would you consider leaving without notice and gone for days?
My wife actually puts tge kids before everything,
Good, then you should be able to leave her in charge of them while you Get a Life.
Maybe I do not understand going dark, but I do know that the one time I traveled out if the country with our current situation, my W kissed me as I was heading out the door to the airport. That was our last kiss. It seemed that she was going to miss me.
I do agree I need to be going out and GAL in the evenings. I have two nights I must be home for the kids, then two other nights I exercise and work on my own projects. That leaves three nights to GAL. It is hard to get myself to go out on those nights...I usually spend them with the kids also. So, you all are recommending that I go out anyway on some of those nights?
I think the "goodbye kiss" that you are referring to ( and if I'm wrong, toss this out, because honestly, after reading so many threads, I may have confused your sitch with someone else's)...... was more that she kissed you goodbye b/c she was FREE for a bit, not that she was going to miss you. I know that sounds harsh, but I mean it in the kindest way.
Sometimes, it just is what it is. I hope I'm wrong.
Yes, get out and get a life when you can. That is exactly what we are saying.
I think you interpret the kiss wrongly. Like Leah says, its most likely that she is happy to have you leave and she has her freedom. I think you must not be reading too much your wife s actions. All this is confusing to you. I feel you are obsessed so much abt your wife who is obviously not feeling the same. Take the focus aay from her and concentrate all actions on doing things for you and the kids.
You are so emotionally enmeshed with your W and kids that it is difficult for you to go out and do something without them. Not many will argue that you shouldn't devote every second with your kids.......except me....I will. You first have to save yourself before you can save your family. You are using the kids as your excuse to stay home. Better to GAL and leave them home a few nights with their mom now......in hopes it will be temporary, rather than a permanent arrangement.
Taking long trips are not required to cause your W to miss you. It can have the same results if you leave her and go out by yourself at night GAL. And BTW, don't give her details of your GAL of what, where, who, etc. Keep it a bit mysterious. It can work to your advantage in saving your M. It won't happen right away, so you have to stick with it.
Remember, the real point of GAL is for your own sake. Do you have any male buddies that are not related to your W? If not, you need to meet and make more friends. At least, have one pal.
What do you like to do to have fun? Not projects......just fun that is not attached to your family? How long has it been since you did something to blow off steam and forget about your problems? You need to get away for a few hours and have a good time. Why? B\c of the results it will have on you.
To respond to the questions about me not kicking her out of the house...I can ask her to leave, and her answer is "no". Then what? I cannot physically remove her...
Opening the cage door isn't about asking her to leave. If she felt controlled and manipulated in the M then you need to do a 180 on that, and a 180 is letting her make her own decisions. In my case after getting a lot of advice here and from reading DR and also Love Must Be Tough about how to approach this, I told my W "I want you to stay here and work on the M, but I understand that is not what you want and I will not try to stop you if you decide to leave. I will support you in your decision whatever that may be." And she did decide to leave, and I did support her. If she had stayed I would have supported that too. The only option I did not present her with was ME leaving. She did approach me later and ask why SHE had to be the one to leave, and I told her I was not the one that wanted to end the M and I was not going to be the one inconvenienced by that decision.
The going dark thing is a reference to where members here simply leave their spouse unannounced for days or weeks. This shows the spouse that they are done with the marriage and gives the spouse a chance to miss them.
Yes and no. Going dark is really just stopping all pursuit. It isn't so much disappearing off the face of the earth as it is just not texting/ calling/ stopping by. You can't go completely dark when kids are involved because there has to be some coordination, so in that case we call it "going dim". You still stop all pursuit but you do maintain just enough contact to work out kids stuff. And if you're under the same roof even "going dim" is difficult because you see each other all the time. It's really tough for a WAS to learn to miss the LBS when they're living together. It's not impossible though. Read TXHubby's threads, he eventually got fed up and went close to dark while still sharing a house with his W and that did result in her having an awakening.
To answer some questions...yes, I stated I feel like thriwing in the towel. I have had this thought pattern before my W said she wanted a D the first time a year and a half ago. I would try and try to be the perfect husband with no effort from her, so I would ponder whether I try harder or more or give up and move on. Fast forward to now, and I have an internal struggle of trying to save our M or kicking my W to the curb and moving on. I know now that her prior lack of effort was because she was having an affair.
AND b/c she saw she would not lose you by having an affair.
I'm not here to pile on, b/c I know you are already deeply wounded.
Just hoping you learn what you can from the mistake made, last time. So that there is no more next time.
BTW
in 2006 when my h's first MLC or "EPISODE" or whatever this Alaskan obsession is caled,
i wrote that "if this ever happens again, I'll walk away and not look back."
B/C FOR ME overlooking so much selfishness and prolonged deceit was a one time deal, and I could not endure that again. Not b/c I wanted to punish him, but b/c I simply knew deep down that I could not do it again.
Not if I wanted to maintain some semblance of self respect and self awareness. DBing was Hard enough to do the first time.
How on earth does one overlook the exact same betrayal, and not feel like an enabler?
And What was I modeling for my kids by staying?
Looking back now, H did not learn whatever lesson he should have learned, from the wreckage he created back then. For whatever reason, h made no significant lasting changes.
I mean, obviously my h did not learn a lesson
b/c he repeated the same mistake(s)~!!Any of this^^ resonate?
Wow, thanks for the insights.
I read up on going dark and setting and enforcing boundaries.
I do GAL and always have through group sports...I race bicycles and do group training rides 3 days a week. Two of these are on weeknights. After the rides, I work on my car or projects outside until I come in for bed. The other is Saturday morning. I am out until 11 am or so. I stopped racing after my W declared she wanted a divorce so I could spend more time with our kids.
Not that it matters much, but the goodbye kiss showed me a spark of love from my W. You see, the night before the trip, my W kept lingering around me as if she wanted to say something. She did not, and I went to bed.
The next morning, I got up late for my flight...first time this has happened. I was rushing around, and my W woke up. The past 10 trips like this, she would just stay in bed. This time, she got up and lingered around me, asking if I had everything, or if she could help me. As I was rushing out the door, she called my name to stop me. Then she came over, hesitated a bit, and gave me the most gentle kiss I can remember.
I may be misreading a lot of what she does, but I read this clear as day. My W was going to miss me.
Usual Friday night drama...W got less than 5 hours of sleep most nights this week. She felt sick from lack of sleep and wanted to kick me out of the living room at 9 pm so she could sleep on the couch.
I told her I was going to relax in the living room before going to bed. I also recommended she try to get on a more consistent sleep schedule. Her response was that she did not need to...
I stayed up for another hour or so relaxing and finishing up some chores. Relationship aside, my W is really aging herself horribly...I do not think her grad school is necessary or a good idea.
Why did you respond like that?
Is your wife's lack of sleep the result of staying out partying during the week, or is it the result of school and work?
If she had been your child in college or a friend who is crashing with you for a week or two, would you have responded that way?
And is giving her advice instead of validating a common communication pattern for you?
I responded that way because she was demanding that I leave the room so she could sleep in our living room.
Here is where I get very mixed messages on this forum. Setting boundaries vs treating my W as a guest are very different things in this case. Treating her as a guest is what the DB coaches would recommend (and have). In hindsight, I could set the boundary of me not letting her kick me out of my own living room without suggesting anything to her?
Its in my nature to try to fix problems. I sometimes forget that she does not want me to help her. Dont worry, though, she yelled at me quite a bit tonight over that suggestion.
Boundaries can be a very good thing, but you have to choose them carefully. I'm not sure this is a good one.
Where do you think your wife should sleep (assuming she doesn't feel comfortable enough to share a bed with you)?
Have you read about sleep deprivation? Among other things, it makes people overreact to things and have mood swings. I would think it is in your best interest to promote her getting sleep.
I didn't hear how she worded her initial request. If she was rude, I can understand having a less-than-optimal knee-jerk response. But tone aside, what she is asking for seems reasonable if she doesn't have a comfortable bed available to her that isn't shared with you.
I responded that way because she was demanding that I leave the room so she could sleep in our living room.
She didn't ask, just walks into the room and starts demanding? Wow!
Here is where I get very mixed messages on this forum. Setting boundaries vs treating my W as a guest are very different things
Well, you cannot treat a wayward W like a guest! You might be able to treat her like someone who is a boarder. There is a gigantic difference in guest & boarder.
In hindsight, I could set the boundary of me not letting her kick me out of my own living room without suggesting anything to her?
That's fine not to let her kick you out of your own living room, but don't call it a boundary. A boundary is
not suggesting something!
Its in my nature to try to fix problems. I sometimes forget that she does not want me to help her. Dont worry, though, she yelled at me quite a bit tonight over that suggestion.
Look, you clearly don't understand how boundaries work. Why would you draw a line about her demanding you get out of the living room....only to listen at her yelling at you? IMHO, the yelling was as bad of an offense as kicking you out of the living room.
So, what did you finally do? Let me guess, you left the living room after she yelled enough.
P.S. It does not matter if is your nature to fix problems, stop trying to fix
her problems.
She didn't ask, just walks into the room and starts demanding? Wow!
.....
Look, you clearly don't understand how boundaries work. Why would you draw a line about her demanding you get out of the living room....only to listen at her yelling at you? IMHO, the yelling was as bad of an offense as kicking you out of the living room.
So, what did you finally do? Let me guess, you left the living room after she yelled enough.
First, let me say thank you, sandi2 for chiming in. I really do value your advice.
To clarify, yes, my wife literally came in the room and said, "I need you to go to the bedroom so I can get some sleep." This is where I firmly told her I was relaxing in the living room. She started on her usual I am not getting any sleep and only a horrible person would keep me from getting sleep routine. On a previous occasion, I refused and offered that she can sleep in our bedroom anytime she wants. This time, I suggested that she try to get on a more balanced sleep schedule so she doesnt need to go to bed at 9 pm because she stayed up until 2 am the night before.
The yelling was the next night. My W was monopolizing the kids time all day by interrupting activities the kids and I were doing together after she kept telling me she had work to do. That afternoon, I planned on stepping out to exercise, and my W was going to run some errands with the kids. She ended up coming back with the kids 2 hours later than we had planned. This cut my evening plans with the kids down from 2.5 hours to just 0.5 hours, and the kids still had to get ready for bed in that time.
I told her that I value the time the kids and I have on the weekends since we do not have as much time to do things together during the week. (W works at the kids school and sees them from 3 pm on, whereas I usually get home at 6 pm from work). I requested that my W have the kids available when we plan. My W started carrying on about how she was out doing chores with the kids that needed to be done, that she is a working mom going to grad school, that all her friends are amazed that she is pulling all of this off and keeping up with everything, etc.
I told my W it is great that she is doing all of those things, but she still needs to consider my time with the kids as important. She carried on the rest of the evening, randomly telling me things that she hates about me. She even came in the bedroom after I went to bed to chew me out more about how I need to stop judging her, giving her advice (reference to the balanced sleep thing), and not interact with her. I told her she is free to leave me anytime she wants and that I will not stop her. Her response to that was "I am not going anywhere. Youre lucky I love the kids more than I hate you." ...and something along the lines that the only reason she wont leave me is because she does not want to only see the kids half the time.
Her response to that was "I am not going anywhere. Youre lucky I love the kids more than I hate you."
Tate,
Is this how you want want to live the rest of your life?
Her response to that was "I am not going anywhere. Youre lucky I love the kids more than I hate you."
Tate,
Is this how you want want to live the rest of your life?
I think this situation is very convinient for your wife and am not sure if it is good for you. I feel you living in same hse with such hostility destroys you in the long term. I feel you think if you stick around and endure she will change but you staying may make her get worse. Clearly this arrangement is not working for you, it drains you more and doesnt even give W incentive to change.
Okay, here is the issue, Tate. You are living with a woman who has lost respect for you as a man.....and certainly as her H. Nothing is going to improve in your MR until you command respect under your own roof. You have three children watching this daily fiasco where mom beats up dad. What do you think that is teaching them about men? I know your kids mean the world to you, and how you cling to maintain their family life. However, if this outward show of disrespect is continued from your W, it will affect them and how they view the man's role in the marriage\home.
Her lack of respect for you is the underlying issue in your marriage problems. My suggestion is to choose your battles wisely, and then stand by your decision . Make sure they are based on solid reasons, and not on fleeting emotions.
You must present yourself as a strong man. She is not going to make it easy, and although you may not feel very brave inside...you can act as if you are determined.
I will use your previous situation about your W demanding that you leave the living room. IMHO, you could have presented a picture of a stronger man. You made yourself appear weaker by (1) explaining and perhaps arguing with her the reasons why you wanted to stay in the living room; (2) You gave her advice as to what she needed to do about her lack of sleep; (3) You endured her yelling at you.
If you decide to do something similar again, (1) don't act like a pi$$y woman. Don't "explain" why you are staying in the living room. (2) Don't tell her how to fix her problem. (3) Don't wander in and out of the room doing chores if you claim you want to relax in the living room. (4) Don't tolerate her yelling at you, b\c you lose all ground you gained when she gets away with screaming at you.
The real issue was not about you wanting to relax in the living room. It was about her outward show of disrespect when she demanded you leave the room. How did it end? If your kids had been observing, what life lesson (if any) would they have taken away from this scene with their parents?
I commend you for making an attempt. Everyone has to learn. If you did not have a manly role model as a child growing up, then you have much to learn. I suspect you have the nice guy syndrome. You are very passive, and standing up to your W like a confident male feels uncomfortable. Therefore, you may make mistakes as you learn and become more confident.
I hope you won't see this post as me shredding your efforts. I used it as an illustration, and hopefully, you can understand the points I attempted to make. You have a big challenge ahead, and I don't know if this M will be saved.....but you can save yourself and have a positive influence on the lives of your children.
Tate,
Is this how you want want to live the rest of your life?
No, not at all. I am sticking with the situation, hoping I can turn things around. I want to be able to say that I exhausted all reasonable options and really tried before I throw in the towel.
more later but for now...
Maybe I do not understand going dark, but I do know that the one time I traveled out if the country with our current situation, my W kissed me as I was heading out the door to the airport. That was our last kiss. It seemed that she was going to miss me.
big assumptions here...
I do agree I need to be going out and GAL in the evenings. I have two nights I must be home for the kids, then two other nights I exercise and work on my own projects.
um, these^^^ are 2 nights in which you can and must make GAL your main project, along with the other nights below
- see, GAL is more important than you seem to get. You cannot detach without GAL
and without detaching, you will get sucked into the arguments you so want to avoid,
and that just sets you back. This situation will make you nuts, and GAL to detach and to improve your mood and your air of mystery and what you present to your kids,
is essential. I cannot stress this^^ enough.
That leaves three nights to GAL. It is hard to get myself to go out on those nights...I usually spend them with the kids also. So, you all are recommending that I go out anyway on some of those nights?
yes, emphatically.
You must present yourself as a strong man. She is not going to make it easy, and although you may not feel very brave inside...you can act as if you are determined.
... It was about her outward show of disrespect when she demanded you leave the room. How did it end? If your kids had been observing, what life lesson (if any) would they have taken away from this scene with their parents?
Thanks for your perspective once again.
I have absolutely no problem standing up to my wife. The continual problem is that I stand up to her, then she becomes very nasty and bitter and begins her typical rant about how much she hates me, that I am a negative person (ironically, I am known as the most upbeat person among my coworkers and friends), etc. She absolutely disrespects me in front of the kids at least once per week. She is stubborn, so absolutely stubborn, and rant on in front of the kids. I tell her she needs to stop, and she eventually will, only to become bitter again at some point in the evening after the kids go to bed.
So, the short of it is that anytime I stand up to my W, I can expect her to try to argue the rest of the day.
A couple months ago, my W got very bad about interrupting my conversations with the kids to give her opinion, rudely tell the kids that what I said was not correct or was my opinion and not a common opinion, etc. I called her out on it and requested that she stop interrupting our conversations. At one point, she was doing this so much that I told her if we divorce, she will have no say at all in what the kids and I talk about. She has done this less often.
On a similar note, after her late return with the kids, I told her that if this continues to be a problem, we will start alternating weekends with the kids. Although my W was mad with me that evening, part of her yelling at me after I went to bed turned into her trying to defend why she was 2 hours late coming home with the kids.
Tate,
Is this how you want want to live the rest of your life?
No, not at all. I am sticking with the situation, hoping I can turn things around.
I want to be able to say that I exhausted all reasonable options and really tried before I throw in the towel.
I commend you for the efforts and the goal. I really do.
But DBing is first and foremost, about doing what works.
(Not to nag, but have you actually read the DB book?)
Anyhow, what you are doing is NOT working. You gotta Do something different.
Last but not least,
I don't say this often, but in this circumstance, I'm very concerned your kids are not better off in this "intact" family. The dynamic is abusive. Seriously.
If a man said to his wife, what your w says to you
"get out of the living room/I hate you/I love the kids more than I hate you-you're lucky"
there'd be no hesitation saying it's verbal/emotional abuse. And in front of the kids?
Bad news. You have to change how you interact, asap.
So, the question for sandi2 is what steps or process do you recommend I follow if I want to try to restore my marriage based on my specific situation?
But DBing is first and foremost, about doing what works.
(Not to nag, but have you actually read the DB book?)
Anyhow, what you are doing is NOT working. You gotta Do something different.
Last but not least,
I don't say this often, but in this circumstance, I'm very concerned your kids are not better off in this "intact" family. The dynamic is abusive. Seriously.
If a man said to his wife, what your w says to you
"get out of the living room/I hate you/I love the kids more than I hate you-you're lucky"
there'd be no hesitation saying it's verbal/emotional abuse. And in front of the kids?
Bad news. You have to change how you interact, asap.[/color]
In my situation, I have not found anything that works for long. The only thing that seemed to make things better was me absolutely killing myself trying to do all the chores plus everything I normally do and going to every single thing my W and kids went to out of town. This got me through the initial threat of divorce.
Yes, I read the book, but that was 1.5 years ago now. I also worked through the marriage bootcamp program another marriage coach offers. This program was, to me, more geared toward a couple where both people want to improve their relationship. The benefit to me was it kept me in a friendly frame of mind for my W.
So, the question for sandi2 is what steps or process do you recommend I follow if I want to try to restore my marriage based on my specific situation?
If you have not had a consultation visit with a lawyer, I recommend you do it ASAP. Check to see if you leaving the house could be counted by the court as abandonment, or go against you in any way. If the lawyer says it makes no difference if you leave, then I recommend you physically move and separate from her. This M is not going to get better with both of you under the same roof. Her distain for you is too great at this time. Time and distance is your only hope, IMHO.
I'm not talking about distancing yourself while living in the same house. Your situation has moved past that point of having any effect. Physically staying somewhere else and keeping away from her (not the kids) may work to calm things down.....if you stay NC. It's your last resort to save the M, as I see it.
The biggest concern is the children and the lasting affects of watching their mom chop their dad into pieces. If the lawyer says not to "move" out of the house (although she is mentally abusive), then ask if you could just spend time visiting relatives or friends.....go camping indefinitely, or some excuse to get you away from her. Is there any place you could stay, for the time being?
That's my personal recommendation, FWIW. Physical separation may possibly save the M, in time. If you remain under the same roof, there is little to zero hope. Initially, I encourage the H not to leave the home, but if he is M to an abuser....I would give him the same advice I would tell a woman who is being abused......which is to get away from the abuser.
total agreement ^^^
you cannot save the m being in the same house, imo.
"Doing everything" is no way to live, it's not sustainable anyhow. And it's no way to get respect from your w, or model marriage to your kids.
I was so sure maintaining an "intact family" was the only priority, and so afraid of the alternative, that I failed to see what my kids saw. Putting up with too much garbage and neglecting my own needs is a huge regret of mine - as a mother and as a woman.
PS
the fact that this is not your first round of DBing is telling and sad.
It means that "doing everything" actually did not last.
We all must live and learn and not repeat the same mistakes. Our spouses may repeat their mistakes so we must change OUR response.
Not all marriages can be saved, not all should be.
But IF IF IF your wife can come around, it'd be by her losing you.
See a L asap to see how you can extricate yourself from this crazy abuse cycle.
You are a participant in the abuse cycle your kids are watching, till you get out of it.
Go be with the kids in peace, let them see some harmony and kindness. And sanity.
You can't do that with a w who is batchit angry at you.
I'm very sorry.
Couple clarifications for both sandi2 and 25yearsmic and summary to date..this is still the first round of DB, so to speak. My W wanted a D due to PA with OM. That fell apart and I did tons of 180s, and my W decided not to D. She declared she will stay as a partner in raising kids only.
Things seemed to be improving until the recent event of my W accidentally sending me a text meant for my BIL. W freaked out and told my BIL what happened. I thought my W had ended her EA with my BIL. I figured it was time to tell my sister about the EA. After W found out, she told me she was filing for D. My W did not file, and has been very angry since...likely she feels trapped. In recent argument, W declared she will not leave me because she does not want to split time with the kids.
So, her strong anger is a relatively new emotion. Yes, she is verbally abusive, but she saves this mostly for after kids are asleep.
I have consulted a lawyer in the past and was told that if I leave the house, it is a form of abandonment and could cause me to lose shared custody should things take a turn.
Right now, it seems like me GAL by going out, away from the house along with being polite, detached, and scarce around the house might be my best course of action...thoughts?
To clarify, my GAL away from house would just be evenings and blocks of time on weekends....not days.
Tate,
If you look at your situation objectively, your wife has done everything she can to destroy your marriage; she's having an affair with your BIL and she holds you in contempt. But, you still want her and you want your marriage to work. She has no motivation to do anything other than what she's currently doing, which involves eating a lot of cake.
The dynamics of your situation are the opposite of what should be happening. She should be begging you to come back because she's the one inflicting all of the damage. What can you do to change the dynamics? The DB response is that you need to work on yourself (become the man only a fool would leave) and stop serving cake to your wife.
I don't think those two things are mutually exclusive. I believe part of becoming a better man is providing clear communication about your expectations and boundaries while your wife is living in your house. Of course, that's not easy. It requires growing a spine and being tough.
Tate,
I am going to be blunt because you do not seem to get it. You need to go get your b@lls back from your wife and start acting like a man and get your wife to respect you.
If you want to take that BS from her that's one thing but my concern is you have sons that are going to grow up thinking that's how women treat men and they are going to suffer serious issues in their relationships.
IMO your'e being driven by fear. Are you?
Tate,
Time for you to kick W to the curb. At this point it's the only way to get some respect back. There is no reason for her to stop. I know you're afraid to lose her at this point. But she is already gone from the marriage.
Tate,
I'm as pro m as they come. But turn this marriage over, it's done.
IF IF IF IF
there is a chance for an actual marriage, (a reconciliation in which SHE wakes up and gets it & you guys build a new r) it's NOT by letting your wife eat cake that you bake and clean up after.
Good grief, this^^^ is not a marriage. So you cannot save it.
I am not saying there is no hope for a second shot down the road, but what you have at the moment is not a marriage.
It's having a rude roomate with run of the house, who engages in mean spirited resentment filled destructive behavior in front of your kids - who wants to annex territory in the home, regardless of whether you are in it.
I'm not crazy about the "living room/go to bed early" loop you guys are in. But that's a sideshow that distracts from the underlying problem.
As for "this not being the 2nd round of DBing", I guess that's b/c it's the 2 year destruction of a marriage.
I'm so sorry but really, truly, the marriage already ended. Your wife will not second guess her choice by you staying in this situation.
You are holding onto the cliff with your fingers - a cliff your w pushed over,
and you think if you somehow hold on a little tighter, and squirm less, THEN she's going to see what a great catch you are b/c you put up with being treated like dirt, for a long time...
but that's not how it works my friend. I'm so sorry.
If loyalty and devotion in the face of betrayal were the solutions, many of us would not be here.
You must extricate yourself from this ordeal, for yourself and the only life you get, and for your children.
Otherwise you are creating a generational legacy of maltreatment, unhappy marriages that your children may pass on to theirs.
Stop the cycle now.
To doodler, yes, my W has done everything she can to destroy our marriage. For years, she has been distant...now I know it is from the EA with my BIL. I am not denying that I had a part in the deterioration of our M, though. But, you are correct in that she is the one running around having affairs while I stood by her side, loyal in spite of many reasons to stray.
To others saying I need to get a spine and get my balls back, what exact actions would you take? My W does not care one bit if I leave, which is the only thing I can ultimately do. I have no problem acting counter to my W, but this will always end in bitter tongue lashings and more hate from my W. She very calmly layed out a plan on her first divorce announcement to get our finances in order and D in a year. Upon her renig on D, she told me she expects me to leave at some point, knowing I will not be happy with her proposed partnership. She is more than detached from me...in hindsight, that is what she was doing for years going out of town with the kids when she knew I could not join them, eating dinner before I got home from work, etc. You are correct that she is cake eating.
My plan upon her divorce announcement was become the man only a fool would leave. If my W kept up the EA, then I would leave. The result would be that I am a better man, and my W would be missing out on that. With things backsliding lately, dhe likely will not miss me if I leave.
My decisions are based on a couple factors: the way my W and I used to get along, my kids having two parents...especially now when my W is off to school several nights a week, material assets...a little, and fear of the unknown if we separate/divorce.
She very calmly layed out a plan on her first divorce announcement to get our finances in order and D in a year. Upon her renig on D, she told me she expects me to leave at some point, knowing I will not be happy with her proposed partnership. She is more than detached from me...in hindsight, that is what she was doing for years going out of town with the kids when she knew I could not join them, eating dinner before I got home from work, etc. You are correct that she is cake eating.
My plan upon her divorce announcement was become the man only a fool would leave. If my W kept up the EA, then I would leave. The result would be that I am a better man, and my W would be missing out on that. With things backsliding lately, dhe likely will not miss me if I leave.
My decisions are based on a couple factors: the way my W and I used to get along, my kids having two parents...especially now when my W is off to school several nights a week, material assets...a little, and fear of the unknown if we separate/divorce.
This is truly heart breaking. You "used to like eachother?" Well, she hasn't respected you in YEARS! Your kids will still have two parents. Separate homes, two parents always. For them to see what is being modeled before them will do more harm than good with two parents in the home.
You focus here on what affect your moving out would have on HER. This is about you and your kids, buddy. How to save those people, not about your wife coming back. So what if she is detached? So what if this doesn't make her want to come home? At least you will get your balls back, an ounce of self-esteem, and your kids won't have this kind of relationship modeled for them.
Just because she won't miss you when you leave doesn't mean you still aren't a man a fool would leave. You need to be that guy for YOURSELF. Not for her. Being a man who only a food would leave does not mean doing every chore in the house and baking and feeding cake to your wife.
I pray you get out. I pray you realize you shouldn't be treated this way. let her feel the pain of not having the kids full-time. Her reality is she will have to split custody. And I think in her state, your kids would be better off in that scenario.
Good luck to you.
T......I believe the advice you got was to move out of the house and away from her madness. What is stopping you from doing that?
FWIW.....my W moved out of our home and I know she doesn't miss me. For the record, she is a fool.
IMO you are making this too much about your W, her feelings and not enough about you.
Also, all the stuff the G said.
You need to divorce her and explain to your family why this is happening as a start. W doesn't care about you leaving, then you need you stay anyways. Trust me she will care about a divorce, especially when the truth get a out. Hate to break this to you, but your W already hates you. Tell her to kiss your a** if she gets too disrespectful.
She will see you as the man only a fool will leave once your not around. And BIL does nothing for her. Right now she is well aware that you are too afraid to leave her. Its time for actions at this piint in your sitch. Can't use the kids as an excuse anymore. Right now your W is getting educated to find a job to leave you. It's time to make things difficult for her.
To others saying I need to get a spine and get my balls back, what exact actions would you take?
It's difficult to say exactly. In the end, you need to be able to look yourself in the mirror and say "I did everything I could, and I wasn't a pushover." Basically, you want to minimize your regrets from this point forward. Be confident in yourself. It's a journey that starts with small steps.
...and fear of the unknown if we separate/divorce.
Yep. That's a huge fear. Face it. Don't think of it as defeat or failure. Because you can do everything right, and your W might still want to D, and there's nothing you can do to stop her.
Start planning your life alone, just you and your kids. Tough question: Why do you want to save this M?
...and fear of the unknown if we separate/divorce.
Tate,
Everyone here has felt that at some point. It's natural to feel that way. I am not yet divorced yet but I can tell you it can't be as bad as how you are living right now.
Read up on IT0402's thread. He recently got his own place after living in a high stressed household like you are living in and he is loving his life right now having his own place for his daughter and himself.
To doodler, yes, my W has done everything she can to destroy our marriage. For years, she has been distant...now I know it is from the EA with my BIL. I am not denying that I had a part in the deterioration of our M, though. But, you are correct in that she is the one running around having affairs while I stood by her side, loyal in spite of many reasons to stray.
I wish loyalty was rewarded the way we hoped. But it's the opposite. Please consider this.
And I'm not suggesting you "stray" but that you do not stay. There's a difference
To others saying I need to get a spine and get my balls back, what exact actions would you take? My W does not care one bit if I leave, which is the only thing I can ultimately do.
so, why not leave? You admit fear is keeping you in the house. You admit the r stinks and you admit the kids see this.
You seem to believe the reasons you are staying are to HELP THE MARRIAGE
but it's the opposite. Staying in the house is NOT helping the marriage. only by leaving MIGHT you later rebuild the marriage b/c only then might she learn to respect you.
That is what at least some of us are saying.
I have no problem acting counter to my W, but this will always end in bitter tongue lashings and more hate from my W.
then leave! Or what? Let her lash out b/c she can? How on earth is this a healthy choice?
She very calmly layed out a plan on her first divorce announcement to get our finances in order and D in a year. Upon her renig on D, she told me she expects me to leave at some point, knowing I will not be happy with her proposed partnership. She is more than detached from me...in hindsight, that is what she was doing for years going out of town with the kids when she knew I could not join them, eating dinner before I got home from work, etc. You are correct that she is cake eating.
So, she has been effectively out of the marriage for years and has been cake eating for years...and your solution is to be kinder to her.
How's that working out for you?
My plan upon her divorce announcement was become the man only a fool would leave. If my W kept up the EA, then I would leave.
But she's a fool. No change there.
The result would be that I am a better man, and my W would be missing out on that. With things backsliding lately, dhe likely will not miss me if I leave.
Well she flat out says she wants you to leave! So IF she's going to miss you, it won't be with you staying, wilt?
And meanwhile she'll curse at you and say she hates you, in front of the kids. TO force you to hear it, to show her contempt.
Short of physically assaulting you, what can get worse?
How bad does it have to get before you leave, AND OR file and get HER to leave? If you are the primary caretaker or half,
in some states you can file, stay in the home, and get a restraining order on HER. She is abusive.
My decisions are based on a couple factors: the way my W and I used to get along,
no time machine to go back there. (Believe me, I wish there was).
Another mistake many of us make, to our detriment and NOT to the benefit of the m,
is staying based on our spouses potential as a partner. Please learn from our mistakes. Stay or leave based on reality, not the hopium of them changing.
Because You're saying you want to stay b/c she might change.
let that^^^ fallacy sink in[/i]
my kids having two parents...
two parents fighting in front of them. The hatred she is spewing is toxic for them and for you. And it's not even good for her.
You really think the alternative is worse??
material assets...
okay so the money matters, as you like the material things and life style. Admit that and ask yourself how it relates to self respect. Mind you, I don't pooh pooh the life style but I will say up front, as the wife of a doctor, i bought into the false illusion that if I remained - my loyalty would be rewarded and all the sacrifices would be WORTH it in the end.
But he left anyhow, and that's after I invested another decade into the m.
Do not assume that if you stay, she will! I seriously doubt that.; I think she's biding her time.
Also if you were a woman in an abusive marriage - the advice would be clear. And saying it's abusive may embarrass you, but it's just reality. Period.
A woman in your shoes would be urged to leave asap, seek help, and file a restraining order so the kids don't have to witness this terrible model of behavior, and so you all could be safe..
you, otoh, are a man capable of earning something, and you won't be on the streets without any help with the kids (which more than half of women face when they leave abusive marriages')
you are not trapped. But given your goals, imo, your methods are not getting you there.
a little, and fear of the unknown if we separate/divorce.
fear of the unknown may be your biggest factor. But here's the thing.
A) I truly believe your w is going to leave you (sorry) and your choice to stick around for the way she treats you INCREASES the chances of her leaving, imo
(she probably does not like herself when she's a jerk, but blames you for bringing out the worst in her). So she is biding her time to leave. Shows no sign of wanting to work on things.
B) your fears if the unknown are unrealistic though understandable. You really cannot have things worsen. Your home will get smaller. Um, I lived in a 5300 sq ft house 18 months ago and have moved 3 times since. I"m in a condo I really like but it's smaller.
Easier to care for and I'm not getting hassled by h.
Your w will pay CS and some alimony for awhile. If you file - maybe you may be able to stay in the home for awhile
and then find a place of your own so that when she has the kids, you can GAL for real and though that sounds scary to you, learn to embrace it.
We all had to.
When you face the real choice you have, don't make it into a myth.
You are NOT facing a choice between a "working marriage, returning to what it once was"'
VERSUS a terrible divorce with only loneliness on the other side. That's a false dichotomy
This^^ image is false in both sentences.
the reality - yes reality - is that your choice is to:
temporarily stay in an untenable domestic situation in which your children witness your w behaving terribly towards you, even by WAW's standards.
and it's a "marriage" in name only. One in which you are overtly disrespected and in which NO indication of her changing is apparent, let alone returning to the m you once had.
With your fears paralyzing you, you remain a target. And your kids are the audience.
VERSUS leaving the shore of persecution to get to the other side of this.
Overwhelmingly the LBSer who ventures out, reports back that on they are grateful for the divorce. Some wish they'd left sooner. The WAS's I know all - yes ALL- end up telling us later that, "dear God, yes it is so worth it. WAS did me a favor."
learn from them. Trust.
So, I read most of your responses at lunch today (and the remaining just now), and I thought man, everyone is over reacting to my situation...its really not that horrible.
Then, tonight, I was hanging out with the kids while my W was in class. My W came home early while I was helping my daughter (9) with her homework. My daughter was having a hard time with a problem and was getting a bit over tired and upset. My W came in the room right away barking at my daughter on how to do the problem. I very nicely told my W that I had this covered and we were just about finished. My wife rudely told me that this is what she teaches and that she was going to help my daughter.
I noticed that my daughter was getting more upset as my W was still barking instructions at her. I told my W that our daughter was a little tired and I could help her wrap up her work. I watched my daughter start crying as my W continued barking instructions at her. After my daughter was crying and I was consoling her, my W got up and left telling my daughter to just forget about it for tonight and finish it in the morning. She then bitterly told me how she did not appreciate me rolling my eyes at her while she was helping HER daughter in front of all three kids.
I stayed, calmed my daughter down, and helped her finish her work so she would not worry about it all night.
I tucked my daughter in as usual. She told me she loves me and that I am the best dad in the world.
I don't think we are over reacting. You are deceiving yourself. You are scared and co-dependent. You don't have a healthy MR, and you are grasping at straws to give sufficient reasons for staying with someone who clearly shows contempt for you. And, b/c she has so much contemp for
you......her rage will turn on the kids even more now. Last night was just a small example of what will be coming from her.
You are the one who needs to wake up and see what she is doing to you, your children, and your family!
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2767204#Post2767204