Link to old thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2760380&page=10Wow...part 6! Crazy! No change in my W, I just continue to give her time and space. I don't communicate with her much outside of kid exchange, kid related activities or finances. I rarely ever initiate any conversation with her and do not pursue. I never ask her questions about where she has been, what is doing, etc.
She has ran into money issues recently and has come to me for support. I have gone back and forth with 100% cutting her off etc. as I don't want to enable her but with children involved it's not as black and white. I do believe she is struggling more than she lets on and we have not spoke about our R or D in over 2 months. I still do not have confirmation that there is OM but I am sure she has at minimum met guys a bars, maybe went on a date, but I don't think there is 1 specific person.
My GAL has consisted primarily of hitting the gym and going out with friends here and there. I am still in our home and do feel comfortable being alone. I don't walk around looking at pictures or remembering how active and full of energy our house was so I feel pretty good and am not depressed about that.
I also feel good about who I am as person and am finding it hard to really think of what I would change about myself. When my W left she complained about my physical appearance (which I have changed) and also told me I needed to be more of a leader. I have done some reading on what that means but I don't know what her expectations consist of as she never told me. In general the areas listed below are how men should lead their home based on what I have read:
1. Lead by loving
2. Lead by initiating
3. Lead by example
4. Lead by management
5. Leading spiritually
6. Leading morally
7. Leading in reconciliation
8. Leading by your service
9. Leading in decision making
I think the biggest opportunity I have is leading by initiating and leading spiritually. I took care of all the finances in our home, was an active participant with our children and household chores. I feel like my W deferred to me on decisions and I made them. I feel I am a morally good person and lead my children by example.
To me initiating is a work in progress and I find it hard to do when we are not together. From a spiritual standpoint I have been taking my children to church every Sunday and have gotten more involved with bible study and with my D's getting them involved with choir and children's church (something I initiated).
Anyway I guess my stich is slightly boring compared to some. I don't know if that is good or bad but I guess it is what it is. My W and I don't yell at each other, she is not shoving her personal life in my face on social media or in person and we interact with each other at the events for our children with relative ease. In some respects it feels like we are already D without the paperwork being final.
I like the list of 'leading' in different areas.
How are your D's doing with church and other spiritual activities that you got them involved in?
What up M....they actually like it for the most part. They like going to Sunday school, hate big church, but like childrens church on Sunday nights. My goal was to get them exposed and ultimately when they are old enough then they can make their own decisions. My W started going, stopped, then I picked up the torch. I have actually enjoyed going as well it has helped bring me some peace.
Like your list as well. I would say the last one should be done as a couple if you were together obviously, but definitely be confident enough to decide if wavering takes place. Good that you are continuing on improving yourself. Keep up the good work.
I feel you are doing so well. keep making those changing for yourself and your Ds. I find your threads interesting because you talk about interesting issues.
Leadership is really a key area for a man and areas where men must lead are all interesting.
You just keep on reading and learning. You may also ask close friends who have known you about 2 great qualities about you and 2 shortcomings you have. This helps a lot. I did this with close family and friends and it has given useful suggestions on areas where I am good and where I need to work on.
Well, I am a very active christian and I find the spiritual leadership more interesting. From my understanding God is the author of marriage and he designed it in a way that the husband is the head and must lead. Most men do not know this and women lead and when they do it brings dyfunctionality to the marriage. In most cases women start looking at their pastors as role models and in some cases start desiring them because they yearn for a man who leads in this area. In some cases most Hs just tag along and go to church to please the wife and not in it and women and children can see that. I hope you continue to grow and lead spiritually building a strong relationship with Jesus Christ and studying the bible because as you grow you find so much peace and contentment. This will positively affect every area of your life.
Thanks LP.....in many ways I feel as though my sitch is boring and emotionless compared to others. Maybe that is a good thing, IDK but it feels weird at times.
I have enjoyed going to church with my D's, I will admit I was that guy at first that my W would drag along. Since is moved out though I have really taken ownership of it. This Sunday I am even responsible for bringing a breakfast casserole to bible study. This should be interesting.........
I have mixed emotions this morning as today is our 14 yr anniversary. I did feel some anger and sadness as I drove into work today but overall I feel pretty good. I am pretty positive that I won't hear from her today and I know I will not be reaching out to her.
When I sit back and think I still wonder how we got to this place. It is truly amazing, I never would have envisioned this for us. I remember when she first told me I could see the anger in her face. It was crazy because I had no idea where it all came from and still don't. It is hard to believe that I shared 16 years of my life with this person, children, vacations, etc. and what I see now looks like a shell of the person I used to love.
Anyway, on with the rest of my day
Gonna hit the gym after work and then I need to mow my backyard. FUN FUN! I got my haircut last night, so feeling pretty good about that. I went to a new place, got the straight razor shave and the eyebrow wax! There is no shame in my game!
Hi Joseph,
Just wanted to say I think you're doing great!
I know today will be rough being your anniversary. You're smart not to expect to hear from her, and stick to your guns and don't reach out to her. Just stay busy all day and it will fly by. Tomorrow is a new day, and who knows where you will be this time next year when it rolls around? Better days are coming! Keep up the good work.
(Oct. 2 will be my 13th anniversary, and I'm already planning to make BIG plans for myself all day and night so no thoughts can creep in!)
Thanks L, I appreciate it. I do have some sadness and anger which I know is part of the process. I know she won't reach out or if she does it will be in an in-direct way, maybe to talk about something else, to see if I take the bait. I know if I do contact her I will take a step back with my efforts to make her feel I am still waiting and I don't want to be in that position.
I agree tomorrow is a new day! 1 step in front of the other,1 day at a time and do not look too far in the future!!
What plans do you have for 10/2? I thought about taking myself out to eat tonight and potentially engaging in some random conversations
.
Well I made it through our anniversary with minimal overwhelming emotions. Nc from my W which I expected, further proof she is gone. Hopefully my NC with her as well resignated with her that I am giving in emotionally. I know its not supposed to be for her but it does give me some satisfaction that I didnt reach out. I honestly felt no desire. Had a good GAL evening at the gym, now I am just home chilling and relaxing.
Stay strong everyone! You can do it!
Hey man! You HULKED the anniversary!
Sadness and anger is normal. Glad to hear you blew off any steam at the gym.
Stay strong for reals!!!
LOL.....thanks M. I am just trying to decide how long I wait around thinking that she is going to have a change of heart. We have not spoke about us in any capacity in 2.5 months. I originally said 6 months but something tells me she just isn't going to wake up 1 day and decide to come back.
Dude,
75 days is nothing. I am on 1,095. Try that on for size.
"The two most powerful warriors are patience and time." Leo Tolstoy
LOL......dam u! <J9 goes back and sits in his chair>.
J9, you've seen the stories here 2.5 months is nothing; but I feel ya limbo is no fun. I think that's another benefit to the GAL. Get your DB down so you don't have to constantly worry about it, then you get busy livin' which helps the time go by. The W becomes less and less of your life, so what you are waiting for becomes less and less of a big deal.
J9,
We are rookies/amateurs in this here DB thing. I cried tonight ready to give up. No lies. I was fed up. Then my WW called me to asked me if I wanted popsicles.
Ahhhhhhhhhh........Dammit...... I had my speech ready to go.
But for real. This sh$t is hard. Man staying this way for months and years takes true patience and perseverance. I must fight on.
I'm going skydiving this weekend and me and Holding are meeting up in SA.
Happy GALing and DBing this weekend DBers!
Get your DB down so you don't have to constantly worry about it, then you get busy livin' which helps the time go by. The W becomes less and less of your life, so what you are waiting for becomes less and less of a big deal.
This is the next step for you dude. You're doing great with the DB techniques NC no pursuit etc. Next step and a 180 for you is stepping up the GAL. What can you do to get out of your comfort zone?
Hmm...that is a good question. I am totally comfortable being at home by myself so in some ways I am kind of a home body. I guess something that would be a 180 for me would be like going out to concerts, maybe taking a overnight/daytrip somewhere, maybe shooting range, stuff like that which would get me out of the house more. I guess with my daughters having soccer on sat then we go to church on Sunday's I am finding it hard to get out as much as I would like, then when you work all week it makes it challenging. I would really like to start golfing, that is something I always wanted to do and pick up!
Uuuuuum, I am thinking more like getting out and starting to talk to and meet new people. Would you say doing this would be outside your comfort zone?
Yes......that would be out of comfort zone. When I started going to church and meeting new people it took me a little bit to warm up.
Here's what you can start to do. Everywhere you go smile and say hello to everyone especially the ladies. " hi how are you" Next when at the mall, store, grocery store address the clerks by name. "Hi Rachel, how are you today" then listen and respond. People love to talk about themselves. Just ask questions. I highly recommend How to win friends and influence people by Dale Carnegie.
After awhile you'll be able to strike up a convo with anyone.
ok....I can do that. The funny thing is that I manage a large team of roughly 160 people so you would think in my personal life I would have not problems starting up random conversations. I guess since I do it all day long when I get outside of work I have no interest in really socializing with anyone.
Blu...thank you for this it makes a lot of sense and is a really good post. I have felt myself mentally start to pull away from my W over the past couple of weeks. I think were I struggle is with the financial peace. Any advice on that? I make more than double what she makes and when she moved out we divided up the bills based on our incomes and since I make more I am paying for more than she is. She is still paying for her own rent, cell phone, utilities, etc. but she has called me a couple of times when she overspent. One time I had to buy her groceries to help her out when my D's were with her. By helping her like that am I showing her I am still attached and is that being too nice of guy?
This is a hard question! My first question would be, without over analyzing it, what does your gut instinct tell you? Do you feel taken advantage of? I read back a couple pages in your post, and I don't get that sense. She may have some struggles, but I am not sure that holding back on helping her, will somehow teach her a lesson. You also have kids, and if she has the kids and is just asking for some groceries, then I can see that it makes sense you would help her. If you feel in any way that she is taking advantage of you or manipulating you, then by all means, tell her sorry but you are not able to help her out with that.
I really liked reading that bit you put in there written by the WAW and her perspective. It makes sense. We often demonize our S and say that they are aliens, out of their minds or having a MLC That makes me cringe. I am not a huge fan of this because 1. we make an assumption that they are not thinking clearly and don't mean what they say, and 2. it further excuses us from having to look inward and what we need to change about ourselves. And as she says, the changes must be genuine and because we want to make them, and not to win them back. I agree with the IC, in the end we will all be 99% better off; people who dig deep and self improve will always be better off. Let us never get lazy, complacent, or take our loved ones for granted. My H blowing up my world was painful, but the silver lining is that I understand this now.
If there is something I would like to see you add to your list on the first post in this thread it would be that each of your leading examples be so that you can be a better man and so that you can be a strong role model for your children. You don't have to do any of this for your W. If you can make all your changes and she still doesn't want to work on the M, then she will absolutely be the fool and down the road she will have to make sense of that on her own. All in all though, you seem like you are on a great path and have a strong head on your shoulders! It's pretty admirable actually.
Blu
Hey Blu.....thanks for hitting up my thread! I love reading your posts!
This is a hard question! My first question would be, without over analyzing it, what does your gut instinct tell you? Do you feel taken advantage of?
My gut instinct tells me "no". I know it was hard as h$ll for her to come to me and ask for money. Every time I have given her money she has cried or has fought back tears. I have been very careful to not ask her why she went over budget or make her feel bad for not spending her money properly. I have always handled our finances so she is not used to having to stick to a budget. I don't offer to give her money but when she asks it is hard for me to say "no" because I know she doesn't want to aask. I just don't want her to think i am push over, nice guy, that big daddy will be their to bail me out. It's just not that simple IMO.
I really liked reading that bit you put in there written by the WAW and her perspective. It makes sense.
Thanks...I found it from a post about 10 yrs ago and it really made sense to me. I have always tried to look at my W and what she is doing objectively. She is trying to be independant and wants to take this journey. I think the LBS often makes excuses for how the other person felt. I am not made at her for her feelings if anything I am mad at her for how she handled it. I think if more LBS's looked at their sitch objectively and not take things so personally they might heal a lot quicker.
I know this was hard for my W....I saw the pain on her face and we cried together as a family. Right or wrong her desire to this journey was more important at this time than our family. I don't like the decsion but I have to respect it.
If there is something I would like to see you add to your list on the first post in this thread it would be that each of your leading examples be so that you can be a better man and so that you can be a strong role model for your children.
Definately true and I agree 100%....the only thing that currently brings tears to my eye are my 2 daughters. I am tearing up actually as I type this. If it wasn't for them I would already be out. If my W has a journey she needs to take then someone has to be responsible for our family and look out for my D's. If that means I go through some strife for the potential to keep our family together then it is worth it to me.
I just don't know how long to wait......GAL, detach, whatever....in the end we are all waiting or we would file for D ourselves.
That is what I get the most confused on because it seems like the LBS' that were successful ended up filing themselves.
Blu....what are your thoughts on this?
J9,
As I have looked over the threads here I have noticed the same thing. Those individuals that filed seemed to have a higher reconcile rate. Maybe its coincidence. But it worries me if I wait to my file, I have waited too long.
IMO...they filed after a long journey. If you file too soon and you have not given her time to take in your changes, etc. I don't think it will work. Her emtions are still high etc. Maybe in the case of an active A their could be a difference. I think most people have waited, gave the sitch some time, then made the call.
J9,
Are you saying they filed at the height of the active A or just after they gave themselves time to get better after GAL and detaching?
J-dawg
You don't want a divorce so that means you are looking for a reaction. Trying to get her to comeback. The only way this works out in the long run is she has to want to comeback.
Short of the discovery of an A, IMO you are not ready to file.
I have read where people kicked the spouse out, thats assuming they will leave. Obviously they have to be willing and you can't force them out. It does appear they got themselves better with GAL etc before they did. I assume it goes hand in had with them getting their confidence back. I do think though that the element of time plays a huge factor.
I think a lot of depends on timing on where your at in your sitch. I have read where exposing the affair works, I have seen where telling them to get out and packing their bags work, I have also read where serving them papers work as well. This is assuming the LBS is fine with the potential consequence. I hve also read that by doing that it could push them closer to the OM which in reality could be the fasest way to get through it. Set them free, say here you go, live it. My W wanted to wait 3 months before she moved out. I told her that wasn't going to work for me and if she wanted to go make it happen. My thought was if this what you want I am not going to hold you back.....I set you free! I think sometimes the LBS wants to hold on emotionally and physically as long as they can.
I do feel that at minimum you have to give the WW enough time to work through their issues and really get a taste of the life. Then when you feel they have had enough of the taste and the LBS is ready you make the decision. You can't go on in limbo forever and we are so young, deserve better, at some point you have to force the WW to make a choice. Again these are just my thoughts but I do think timing is everything and at minimum the WW has to explore the life they think they want.
I have seen some that have filed in the middle of an active affair. Poster LIM is 1 that comes to mind. I think TXhubby did the same thing (I think he finally had enough after close to 3 yrs).
Just realize all the above could backfire and if it does you have to be willing to accept the consequences. If my W is having an A or is banging everyone in sight she kept everything for me. I really don't know how I would react if she was doing it in front of my face in our house. Truthfully I don't think I could do it. After I took the initial punch to the face and got my legs underneath me I wouldn't be able to handle it. But that's just me.
IF you are the type that can handle it then I think that is where the boundaries come into play. They have to be boundaries you can enforce though and that is assuming she is willing to abide by the boundaries you set. If she is in total disrespect mode and no matter what you try to enforce she tells you to $uch off IMO you have your answer. I am lucky my W is not doing that, she is not even active on social media trying to rub it in face. I don't ask and she doesn't tell.
Again just my thoughts......
L....your right I am not ready yet. If she was rubbing it in my face I would feel different. As I get further down the path I start to think about when I would be ready and what that would look like.
You have fought for over 1,000 days.......knowing what you know now would you have done anything different?
Oh and for those of you watching the Virginia/Boise St game......I took Virginia +13
Oh sorry LH.....I had to pick up a package at the Post OFfice today and I struck up a convo with the lady behind the counter. I thought you would be proud of me
lol I took B. State.
Ill respond to your question at another time.
You have fought for over 1,000 days.......knowing what you know now would you have done anything different?
First off I wouldn't have moved out when we separated. Wasn't aware of DB and thought it was best for me to rock the boat. Then the separation was a joke it was a cake eating fest without her feeling any ramifications of reality. I still paid for everything, went over and put kids on bus when she had to work, family outings, still hung out with friends who didn't know we were separated. Lastly, I wanted to be back home for Christmas and talked her into letting me when she clearly wasn't ready.
Looking back now I should have played it like you are now with the twist of me taking the time to figure out what I wanted instead of worrying so much about trying to get her back.
I should have tried to persuade her more to stick with MC and or get IC. She quit MC after 4-5 sessions and said she didn't need IC.
Life was miserable for me because I could tell she wasn't happy and I couldn't fix it but hey my family was together and I kept trying to convince myself it was a phase she was going through. Bomb drops 7/2016.
At this point I should have backed totally off GAL hard and see if she pursued me.
Based on some comments she makes I really think she doesn't quite understand the ramifications of divorce and a lot of it has to do with the BS separation I allowed her because I acted out a fear.
I had dinner with my wife's cousin on Thursday and she said "w is gonna wake up in a few years and say WTF did I do" and it's going to be too late.
Dude, your DBing perfectly. You have to be strong, firm and let them go. It has to be because they want to come back. It's the only way it works out long term. Make the changes you want to make for yourself. It really is that simple but everyone struggles because of fear. There are no tricks, magic or effects. Become the man you want to be and the universe will bring like mined people into your life.
I'm at my cottage with two of my close friends. There great guys who suffer from NGS and they are in unhappy Ms and feel like they just can't make there Ws happy. They defer all the decisions to their wives never challenge them on anything, are always saying "yes dear" and they can't figure out why their wives don't want to have sex with them.
Most people just don't know that what they think their W wants is really the exact opposite of what she wants.
Thanks for the vot of confidence. Do you wish you would have filed or not waited as long as you did for your W to file? Dude, I wish i had a retreat like that to escape to. That sounds really fun! I am jealous!!
I have learned that yes dear does not work. I wish I would have known that several years ago. Maybe she is starting to get the picture. We shall see.
On a side note had soccer games this morning. When I got to the field I said "hi" to my W and made a couple of minutes of small talk. I then went and stood on the corner of the field by myself. She came over a few times to talk with me, sent me some videos she took of our D playing and during the last Q stood beside me the whole time. We were joking back and forth, she made a couple comments about her pregnancy (our D's coach is pregnant) and a restaurant she took our youngest to eat this am. For mintue it seemed as though she was reminising for a little bit.
Towards the end of the Q she made a comment about her cell phone bill and that she would just give me money to pay it. I told her "no" that she needed to pay it and get the account set up with her debit card, I told her I did not want to be involved with it any longer as it was 1 of my personal boundaries. When I said that she just looked at me, not sure if she was stunned or not but I know she didn't expect that response. She said ok and that was the end of the conversation.
She then asked me if I could come to her apt and take a look at her smoke detector. I said cant you have maintenance look at it? She made some excuse, I dont remember what it was and then the conversation just got dropped. After the game she said she would handle the smoke detector at another time. I just said ok.
She us taking our kids out on the boat this afternoon with some mutual friends of ours a couple who is in their 60's. They are really cool people and have helped me a lot as I have taken this journey. They don't agree with the decisions she has made and I asked them to please not bring anything up about me, us, our R, D or anything. They promised me they would not but I hate these situations.
Another funny thing happened last night. About 6 pm my doorbelled ringed and it was am older couple from my w's apartment complex. They had my W clutch purse, her drivers license and y W's $100 in cash. Last weekend my W went out dancing with her girlfriends, got smashed and dropped her clutch aong with her food in the middle of the street. She was so hammered that she thought she left it at the dance club but come to find out she dropped it in the street. I gave it to her this am and made a comment that it must have been Teachers Gone Wild, she just laughed and you could tell felt a little embarassed.
Anyway I feel good about the interaction W has started to open up some over the course of the last couple of weeks. She seems to be more comfortable joking around, making small talk, etc. so it maybe her walls are starting to drop some ????? I have not been trying to do anything just working on myself. As always I made sure I look great w a nice v neck t-shirt from Bananna Republic, a pair of khaki shorts and sandals. The shirt also made me look pretty jacked
J9,
Good Job. Keep it up. I know she was thinking like what is going after that cell phone response you gave her. You are now allowing her to have to deal with these issues herself. I hope she is starting to feel your lost. It probably was a small wake up call.
I know she also felt a lil bit more lost when you didnt accept her invite to look at her detector.
I'm also glad you interacted with her like a neighbor while at D soccer practice.
Keep up the good work.
Dude,
My cottage is my "forteress of solitude". I typing this on the beach right now.
I wish you had one too. You handled everything perfectly! Stay the course!
I have one question: Alabama or the over?
J9,
You handled the whole interaction extremely well. Sure she is already feeling the effect of your loss.
How many pts is bama laying? 18?
Thanks all...it feels natural. I have no expectations and feel like I am making no effort. You have to get to a place where you don't give a $hit....out with some buddies at a local brewery. Hit the gym, get jacked, my go to jams are pumpkins, foo fighters, Metallica, pearl jam! Get focused you all can do it!!!!
Ala is destroying Vandy. Vandy looks like a JV team. That over on 18 was a must in this one.
You did good J. I wish you could've taken a pic of W when you responded about the phone bill and saying no to the smoke detector.
Yea ol' school pumpkins, pearl jam, and metallica - big thumbs up.
Hey all, yeah she just kind of looked at my for a split second kind of drum founded. M...its funny you call it old school, I grew up listening to them in college......listen to whatever gets you jacked up!! You would be proud of me, just got done making a breakfast casserole for church tomorrow morning. I signed up to bring food this week to bible study. Its not some habernero okra dish but it will do:).
Had good GAL activities today, went to a couple of local dallas breweries today with some friends. It was definatley cool to get out.
LH.....as my mentor I hope you bet the Bama game..if you did u hit good. Unfortunately I got my rear kicked by OSU,,,uggh!!!
Look at you guys and your 90s grunge, how adorable :-) J-9, you seem like you are doing great--a real DB champ! And the fact that you are feeling good about it and thus more confident, is awesome! I love reading this because it is an example for others to see that if you embrace the philosophy & the rules, you really can start to detach and feel better. You don't have to give up loving them and wanting them, but you can let them go, live your life, and implement boundaries. Why should you look at her smoke detector in her apartment? She left you! If she wants to be friendly and engage in conversation, that's great. You can be cordial and respectful, but still not be her friend or rescue her. That is the balance, and you appear to be striking it.
I just don't know how long to wait......GAL, detach, whatever....in the end we are all waiting or we would file for D ourselves.
That is what I get the most confused on because it seems like the LBS' that were successful ended up filing themselves.
Blu....what are your thoughts on this?[b][/b]
When you say you don't know how long to wait, what does that mean? Because whether you are waiting or not waiting, the goals and the rules are the same, no? DB is ultimately for you and you only. Once you master it, over time you naturally become the better option. If she notices (which she will) and she still doesn't want to come back, you can still feel good about yourself and think "her loss!" Someone else will notice and love the new, improved you!
So you brought up a great point about the LBS that are successful ended up filing themselves. There are several posters here that got to a place of filing, dropping the rope, or making the clear statement that they were finally done, only to have their S do a 180. We have seen that with TxHub, Stormchaser, Lim, myself, and PsySara, etc. So yes, sometimes when we have a S that has BD'd us, there is a recipe that brings them back and that usually involves their other plans blowing up or backfiring, in combo with them realizing that the LBS has removed themself from plan B.
Here is another twist tho, and I am no expert, but this topic (of our S doing a 180 and coming back), is where I THINK (IMO) we see a big difference between Walkaways and Waywards. I think when our S is wayward AND leaves us for OP, and that relationship starts to become reality (which is usually a disaster), while at the same time they see the S is done, there can be a shock to the system. They realize they made a mistake and that the S is no longer plan B. That makes the AP person look even worse in their eyes and it can quickly become a downward spiral. This was certainly the case with my H and he did a 180 and came back very quickly, in a couple weeks.
When the W walks away, and not to pursue a OM, the psychology can be very different. She is not running in limerance to another, but she is fully checked out of the M and detached from her H. Often she feels she has done everything, been trying for so long, feels that it is hopeless and that things will never change. She gives up on the M and her H and she moves on. Now while there is not the same devastation and heartbreak for her H (that she has run off to OM), getting her to come back and see your changes might actually be more of a challenge. She has been on this journey for a long time, she feels her mind is made up, and there may even be some depression or MLC going on.
Sooooo, the short of that is, there really isn't a way to trick them into coming back. If you don't want a D yet, then don't file. I get the sense your W is a WAW and not a WW. That perhaps could take longer or be more challenging. Or not. We have so much less control than we think we do. But you are doing great! Keep it up with your tight shirts and grunge. Just keep 180 & GAL for YOU!
Ok, you guys, now feel free to disagree and hit me with your 2*4s :-))
Blu
Thanks Blu, I really appreciate it!! I do feel really good, I do miss my W and family but I understand my W didn't feel the same way and I have accepted it. I don't understand why, I suppose I never will but I do know that it all doesn't have to do with me.
90's grunge are my jams! Great workout music!!
When you say you don't know how long to wait, what does that mean?
I guess how long you generally wait for them to notice your changes? I suppose that there is not a finite answer and it is a personal descion but is there any general timeline that these sitch's follow? You are right either way I would be doing the same work. I know mine is very early on and I guess in reality I shouldn't even worry about it. I already feel as though I am her best option, (she never gave me a reason she wanted to leave in the first place) and I have got my confidence back so I guess that is why I feel impatient. I love my W don't get me wrong but I am battling the feelings of you don't deserve me, I am the best option vs waiting for an opportunity to put my family back together. Does that make sense???
I do believe my W is a WAW and in a MLC. I don't think there is a specific OM however I do believe she is out flirting, maybe has been on a date, talked to guys at bars etc. I know she is enjoying her apartment, alone time and not having our children full time.
I get the sense your W is a WAW and not a WW. That perhaps could take longer or be more challenging.
I do think this is my W....any thoughts or strategies on how to handle?
fwiw
my aunt and uncle divorced (she filed). They remarried 5 years later. The 2nd m lasted & was better. She's a widow in her 90's now.
My cousin also remarried his ex wife. It was 3-4 years after the divorce. I don't know who filed.
Interesting article written by a WH who married his OW.
He said while he ran off to marry OW (thereby proving that he was "right to leave"), he felt validated by his choice to leave, b/c his ex wife did not date for awhile.
He realized later that maybe she was busy raising their kids. Though He was "fine" with OW as his wife, he noticed they had their own issues.
He had the nagging thought that he could have stayed with his first wife and been happy if he had worked as hard in it as he was in the 2nd m. There were times he resented his 2nd wife b/c there was a distance between him and his kids even though his 2nd w made effort. IT was just the fall out.
And he realized his kids "loved" him but were not close to him like they were with their mom, and probably never would be. He felt they would have been closer if he had remained in the marriage & home.
But what really hit him hard was when his ex wife began dating. She was well treated by her boyfriend and he saw this.
The author said when he saw his ex wife well treated by another man and falling in love with that man, was the first time it truly dawned on him that he may have given up on the best thing that he ever had.
When his ex wife married her 2nd h, and seemed very happy, that
he wrote the article with the title:
"Don't Do What I Did"
He wrote that he broke up his family and deeply hurt them, b/c he was selfish and entitled. And stupid.
He lost what he could have had, and realized it too late.
Only when another man wanted what he had had, did he see its' real value.
It's childish but I think there is significant truth herein^^.
PS
though the article has a really good feeling of KARMA,
what irked me was that the focus was on what the author had lost and what HE was suffering. That he had made a stupid choice.
There was mention of hurting his 1st wife and kids, but I felt it was more about how that cost him, as a result.
You have to wonder if he would have had regrets if his 1st wife had remained single all her life.
Thanks 25, that is a great read. So morale of the story is I should stay the course????
So you brought up a great point about the LBS that are successful ended up filing themselves. There are several posters here that got to a place of filing, dropping the rope, or making the clear statement that they were finally done, only to have their S do a 180. We have seen that with TxHub, Stormchaser, Lim, myself, and PsySara, etc. So yes, sometimes when we have a S that has BD'd us, there is a recipe that brings them back and that usually involves their other plans blowing up or backfiring, in combo with them realizing that the LBS has removed themself from plan B.
Blu
That's the key though, isn't it? (the statement in bold). It seems like it's not just the act of LBS's filing for D was what brought upon the WW to 180 and realize the error of their ways
BUT THE TIMING of the filing. Had they filed earlier when their WWs were deep in "love with their soulmate APs" and didn't give a s--t about their LBSs, it's very likely those WWs would've been very happy to proceed with D without thinking twice about it. I think that's what my WW wants - for me to get tired of this BS and file - so that she's the "victim" in everyone's eyes instead of being a homewrecker. So the BIG question is how do you know when the timing is right and their plans with APs are blowing up in their face or backfiring (unless of course we're privy to the state of their R which I assume most of us are not)? Or do you just file on your own timeline and HOPE AND PRAY that the WWs would turn around?
Here is another twist tho, and I am no expert, but this topic (of our S doing a 180 and coming back), is where I THINK (IMO) we see a big difference between Walkaways and Waywards. I think when our S is wayward AND leaves us for OP, and that relationship starts to become reality (which is usually a disaster), while at the same time they see the S is done, there can be a shock to the system. They realize they made a mistake and that the S is no longer plan B. That makes the AP person look even worse in their eyes and it can quickly become a downward spiral. This was certainly the case with my H and he did a 180 and came back very quickly, in a couple weeks.
Why does it feel from many threads that WHs change their minds and want R SO MUCH FASTER than WWs -- weeks/few months versus many months/years??? Is it because WWs take longer to take the plunge to leave their husbands so it's harder for them to turn around? Is it their desire to "punish" their LBHs for their unhappiness in M? Is it the female desire to always be right and show the world they can make it work with OMs against all common sense and statistics?
Painful,
It's easier for WAH's because men, by their nature, are very territorial. They cannot stand the thought of another man laying claim to THEIR own wife. It's that simple.
You only have to look up Train's threads to see this shining through. Train DB'd impeccably!! She's truly a shining star.
So the BIG question is how do you know when the timing is right and their plans with APs are blowing up in their face or backfiring (unless of course we're privy to the state of their R which I assume most of us are not)? Or do you just file on your own timeline and HOPE AND PRAY that the WWs would turn around?
I believe this is difficult to gauge because the LBS at this point in DBing is not privy to the internal stuff going on with the W. So, then filing for D like this becomes a way of obtaining some reaction from W, which IMHO becomes just a tactic to see if they want to come back rather than the LBS making a decision from a position of strength.
I think that the LBS should file for D if they are truly done and want to move on with their life - much more than they have already done with attaining detachment and all that. Otherwise, it's just a tactic that could potentially backfire and also impact all the detachment work that the LBS has done.
As pointed out, the psychology of a WAW vs. WW is important in this aspect. I am going to speak for the WAW here, which I think is J's sitch and also mine at this point. If the WAW has not done the internal self-critical personal work, then it is going to be difficult for them to come back. If the D wakes them up and they want to start recon but haven't done the work, the LBS has to make a decision whether or not they want to go along with the WAW's process of figuring herself out, or just move on with their lives. Because at the point of filing D, assuming you've given it enough time for the changes that the LBS wants to make for themselves has passed, the LBS is going to be in a different mental, emotional, and psychological universe compared to the WAW (if they are still stuck in limbo and in the past). At this point, I would say that the WAW is in a fairly unattractive place for the LBS, and the LBS will have figured out what they want from a relationship. If the WAW agrees to work on things and the LBS's needs, then you can begin the process of recon and see where it leads.
As much as I love my W and would want a recon, I am not going to do it if she hasn't done some personal work, shown remorse for her actions, and agrees to do the work so that my needs are met for a future MR. I aim to get to a place of strength where I am comfortable moving on without W and I know I can have a happy life without her. I don't want to recon for a subpar MR and I don't think any LBS should.
So, the way I look at the timeline for making a decision for what's next is this - have I been able to accomplish my goals yet? Do I feel like I have the inner fortitude and strength to move on with my life? Do I know what I would need from a relationship?
If I have reached those markers, at that point I will consider the decision on the D.
I think all of this circles back to the fundamental point about focusing on yourself. And if you do that, you're golden.
Interesting that I get an email today from a male leadership site I subscribe to and today's email is as follows:
I work with a lot of men who are standing on the hairy edge of major decisions.
* Is this relationship worth saving?
* How do I know if I've done all I can?
* How do I know if it's time to throw in the towel?
* How do I know if I'm ready for a new relationship?
* What if I make the wrong decision?
When you have this much doubt and uncertainty it is always caused by the same thing.
Lack of clarity.
And when you're lacking clarity you find yourself in the same stupid arguments saying the same destructive things.
When you lack clarity you're over-reacting to everything and riding the emotional crazy train anywhere it takes you.
When you lack clarity you feel out of control and fearful of every reaction and every consequence to any decision you make.
The huge mistake men make before deciding to stay, leave or start a new relationship is not getting CLARITY.
You know you have clarity when you are feeling calm instead of anxious.
You feel confident instead fearful.
Your words and your actions are more purposeful and deliberate.
No, you're not an emotionless, robotic ass.
You're actually more tuned in to your own emotions and empathetic toward the feelings of others.
You're more aware of your intentions, your words and the impact you have on others.
Clarity gives you a peaceful sense of acceptance - even when you're in a swirling cloud of sadness. Even when others have hair trigger tempers and the tension is thick and gooey.
THIS is where I want you to be before you make ANY major decision.
From here you will speak your truth, express your real feelings and make the best decisions.
From here...the consequences from the decisions you make are the consequences that are supposed to happen.
How do you get clarity?
We get clarity through a commitment to discover ourselves.
I know...sounds woo-woo. It's not.
I'm talking about discovering the real source of your fears.
Understanding the cause of your self-doubt and indecision.
I do think this is my W....any thoughts or strategies on how to handle?
This is the hard part of giving up control. I don't think there is anything different you can do to win them back other than DB for your own self preservation and growth. Over time they will notice, but of course that doesn't mean they want to R. I think you can never have enough GAL activities tho. What sort of things did your W find attractive about you when you guys met? Does that motivate you again? For example, did you engage in more sports, social activities, music, taking a writing class, etc? Would you still enjoy these same sort of GALs?
There are so many great topics in this thread! 1. The difference between a WAW and a WW. 2. The timing of filing for D and if that motivates WW/WAW to come back. 3. If WW/WAW comes back to M, but hasn't made changes, and then 4. The gender differences and why it seems WH returns to the M more often than WW. Each one could be it's own thread.
I am not sure I can speak to all of these. I can share what I have read here and from my own sitch. I think Wonka brought up a great point about men being more territorial. Even tho my H was Wayward and left the M to pursue OW, there were several times he thought I was dating (or even when I was dressed up and going out) and it bothered him a lot! He said he would have ask himself why it bothered him and that he knew he had a double standard, but it still did. This was another red flag in his mind that he was making a mistake. If he was leaving me then why did he care so much about what I was doing? Over time more and more things forced him to see what a mistake it was; but leaving OW was also difficult because she was very clingy and emotional (not the fun loving floozy she was before he left me and during their EA).
Meanwhile, the OW (who was also Wayward and left her H) did not follow the same path (recall we were all friends). According to my H, she made it clear to him that she would have left her H (WAW) with or without the A (my H). I don't tend to believe much of what she says, but when my H left her, she did not go back to her H. She moved right on to OM2 and moved in with him (and all their kids) in just a few months. Is this because of gender differences or because she was actually a WAW (that used the A as an exit), whereas my H was just Wayward? I mean, no one can ever no for sure, but I tend to think both. I think men that are Wayward are more likely to return to the M and I think that Waywards in general are more likely to return than Walkaways.
Let me be clear again, that this is my perspective, and my perspective is a scorned woman who was burned by both my H and OW, who I thought was a close friend for several years. I am sure if you heard other POV, they would be different. I also recall OW (when we were friends and before I knew about her A with my H) joking for a couple years about how she would leave her H some day and how we all better look after him, etc. So I have no idea if she was planning her Walkaway or just blowing smoke up my arse because she was pursing my H. Who really knows? Sigh.
Blu
Thanks again Blu.....I try to think deep about things and to not react when it comes to my sitch. Hence why there are so many great topics because it helps me work things out in my head!
I never did discover if there was OM and I stopped snooping when she moved out. I go back and forth between W and WW but just based on her actions probably more W I would guess but who knows. I also don't think it really matters. When she left though I got the same standard responses, not attracted to you, not in love with you any more, you were a safe choice, etc.
I do think my W is in girls gone wild mode at minimum, enjoying her freedom , partying with her friends, meeting guys etc. I don't think she left to sit at home twiddling her thumbs so in that way I would say she is Wayward, just not as disrespectful as some of the others I have read about.
Before kids we just did your normal dating type of things going out to dinner, bars, maybe an overnight trip here and there, some concerts...more social type of activities.
In the end though you got your mojo back, filed and it woke him up. Combined with him viewing you as an attractive option. Correct? The filing for D, combined with the other factors, including time/distance and you being an attractive option pushed him over the edge.
+ you can never go wrong with Big Sean!
you were a safe choice, etc.
That's why I suggested you start to get out of your comfort zone!
BAMA -18
LOL...well played. I took a beating on Oklahoma St. Uggh!! I was too busy out GALing at a couple local breweries to get any other action in.
Sat was definitely out of my comfort zone! Is that what you had in mind????
When I hear her saying safe choice. I interpret that is boring, predictable and reliable.
Unfortunately that is what happens when you have kids and a career it can take its toll on you.
What can you do that would make you more exciting and unpredictable?
Well I think I have started to do that by not calling her, texting her, giving her space etc. I think that is the opposite of my general nice guy personality so I think that is a start.
I used to never buy clothes or anything for myself. That has recently changed with buying new threads, cologne, I also dyed my 44 yr old gry hair and am in the process of growing it out on top. I always wore the same hair cut 8 on top 2 on the sides. That I think would also be unpredictable Because again I never did anything for myself.
I guess another way would be arrive late to exchanges, I am always prompt and on time. Maybe start to leave situations early as well. Maybe I miss a weekend of my D's soccer games because I am going out of town or miss a practice because I got a HH to go to. That would be totally not normal for me because I love watching my d's play sports.
Continue to ACT like I don't give a [censored] and try to pay her as little attention as possible. I started not sitting by her at soccer games and practices, by doing this I have found that she comes over to talk to me.
Don't cave into her wishes or requests. Be more aloof, more difficult, like I told her this weekend I wasn't going to be involved with her cell phone any more because it is my personal boundary or why couldn't maintenance fix her fire alarm in her apartment. Continue with stuff like that.
There is also the obvious of going out more, etc.
In the end though you got your mojo back, filed and it woke him up. Combined with him viewing you as an attractive option. Correct? The filing for D, combined with the other factors, including time/distance and you being an attractive option pushed him over the edge.
I wish I could tell you that I got my mojo back, lol, but no not entirely. Actually I am still looking for it, and chit I hope I find it soon because I turn 40 next year :-O ... I also didn't file for D. ... But, I was starting to go out more, enjoy my GAL more, got better at faking my happiness, and the DB extreme weight loss made that a bit easier. He did think that I was dating someone tho and it drove him crazy! I recall one day he came by for the kids on a Friday evening, I was dressed up, and just breezily said goodbye to everyone, and he followed me out to my car, tried to keep talking to me, and was chocking back tears. I did not mention that I was only going to a GFs house for dinner, but I did secretly enjoy watching him suffer. Muah hahaha!
Also, while I didn't file for D, I did consult 2 Ls. He found out and flipped! Another time he followed me out with all the questions! He was a much better spy than I was and he def had some intel. What I did not tell him was that I was not going to file because I would have screwed myself financially. I live in a no fault state, and I was living in our large home with him at his parents house, and he was paying half of everything. His NG guilt had him eating out of my hand at times TBH ...
The biggest factor, I think, I had very little influence over. His R with OW was never what he hoped for in his limerance/EA/secret stages in the beginning. The reality was that she was needy and insecure, they no longer had the family time that they had in our circles of friends, they were somewhat outcast from everyone, and he wasn't "comfortable" with her. I actually found that out early on when digging through his backpack ... and I'll tell you what? That was never and is still not an issue with me! TMI? Whatever. I'll take it.
The longer their R was out in the real world, the faster it deteriorated. He was essentially running from his life and she was there always telling him how great he was and how he deserved better. There was very little substance and it was a lot of drama. I think part of his attraction to the A was his inability to face our issues, so he blamed/resented me, and then justified running away from the M. She alone is not a person he said he would have ever dated or been attracted to. In fact, early on in our circle of friends, he would complain about her being annoying ... Sorry, I just really hate the B!
When I hear her saying safe choice. I interpret that is boring, predictable and reliable.
Funny you should bring this up, because this was another reason that my H wanted to come back. He missed his every day life at home and with me and the kids. The novelty wore off quickly. He is an easy going guy who likes the more "boring" and predictable stuff. I think most people eventually want to settle down and have Rs that are easy and comfortable, so I am not sure this is such a bad thing. For me, I want both. I want my every day family life and I still make time to GAL and have fun. It's all about balance and I don't need to leave my H for that! ... Please remind me of this again when I talk about leaving. Thank you.
Blu
Well, you want to become a better version of yourself, so I'm not sure showing up late to exchanges is a step in the right direction.
It seems like men often focus on the surface stuff when it comes to 180s. Gym, cologne, clothes. Those are an important step, but don't stop there.
Try out a new genre of music, take dance lessons, go see the art film you wouldn't normally see, go fishing if you're a city guy or head to the museums if you're a nature lover. Learn to cook, try a new cuisine, take an art class, shoot a gun.
New experiences light up different parts of your brain and give you something new to talk about. We all get into ruts. Getting out of one rut makes it easier to get out of other ruts, like the ones in our relationships.
This is the stuff!!!
I couldn't agree more with this. It is truly about getting that clarity for yourself, and I believe this is what creates the LBS in a position of strength.
Their decisions then aren't out of revenge, vindictiveness, clingyness, or desperation. It is out of crystal clear clarity.
This is exactly what I am trying to approach over the next year. I want to be able to let go of fears of what life has in store for me without W.
Well, you want to become a better version of yourself, so I'm not sure showing up late to exchanges is a step in the right direction.
LOL...true, I was just thinking about what a 180 for me would be since I am always punctual and hate being late.
It seems like men often focus on the surface stuff when it comes to 180s. Gym, cologne, clothes. Those are an important step, but don't stop there.
I think I started with that because she told me I had gotten fat and wasn't physically attracted to me.
Try out a new genre of music, take dance lessons, go see the art film you wouldn't normally see, go fishing if you're a city guy or head to the museums if you're a nature lover. Learn to cook, try a new cuisine, take an art class, shoot a gun.
I think a cooking class would be fun as I do like to cook even thought it is only formyself now. I did some research for stuff in my area and there is a place about 20 min away that offers cooking classes. There is actually 2 places. 1 is more of a BYOB, do some cooking, have some fun with adults. Like it would be a fun date night, not sure it is something that a single dude would roll to. They do offer classes for kids and parents though so that would be something fun for me and my D's
There is another place at Sur La Table that may be more appropriate. Not neccarily desgined for date night that I could check out it looks like the classes are on Saturdays for 2 to 2.5 hours.
I think trying different things is where I get hung up. I need to figure out a way to continue to get out of comfort zone. That is hard for me.
I couldn't agree more with this. It is truly about getting that clarity for yourself, and I believe this is what creates the LBS in a position of strength.
Yeah, I thought it was pretty cool. I feel like I have clarity and continue to have the emotions become less and less however I am not sure when that transfers to being ready to move on with her permanently not in your life as a S.
[quote] I need to figure out a way to continue to get out of comfort zone. That is hard for me.
Once you master this, that's when you'll gain clarity!
Remember what master Yoda said: "Do or do not, there is no try."
Remember what Henry Ford said: Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”
I definately need to work on my mastering!
ok.....so I have my kids this week so I need to think of something fun to do with them after soccer on Saturday. I know it's not am individual GAL but it is GAL with my kids so does that count? I am not sure what it will be yet but I will come up with something!
For me personally taking some cooking classes sounds kinda fun.
Most of them start in OCT so I will pick a date and register!
I stayed home today with my oldest....she woke up sick and I took her to the dr and she has strep throat. Usually when they get sick they want their mommy. So i texted my W and told her, I tried to handle it myself but she wanted her mommy. It didn't bother me but usually when she comes over they don't want her to leave so I thought it would be worse this time since she was sick.
My W came over to the house after school and laid in bed with my oldest until she fell asleep. TBH it was really hard to see and it made me realize how much I miss her. Seeing the tenderness of her laying with my D as she fell asleep and my W being tender brought back memories of us as a family.
I held it together in front of her but I will admit I currently have a few tears flowing.
We made a little small talk nothing major but I do miss her and I wish this didn't impact me like this. Before she left she game my youngest a hug, told her to be a good little sister and help me take care of my oldest.
Again....it was tenderness from her that I havent seen in a while. I know it had nothing to do with me and it was all about my D's but it was nice to see. After hugging our youngest she said sorry and good luck, I said thanks and off she went.
I miss her and it makes me sad.
Those family dynamics are the hardest because it feels like a mirage - it's there but it's not.
Tears are good man! I feel cut up today too and I don't know why.
In terms of GAL when kids are around, I am trying to GAL with them, which usually happens on the weekends. Some stuff that I am doing consistently with them is going climbing - they're fanatics now and I also get in a few climbs when they take a break.
In my city, there are lots of things going on throughout the year usually and they have a fab tourism website. I just check it all the time and find awesome things to do. I am taking kids to a play soon; we go to some museums; take them to outdoor festivals and the beach when weather is good etc.
And one of my GAL goals is to spend quality time with them and we do outdoor and indoor stuff. We play board games, read a ton, play card games etc. And then go to the movies once in a while.
Anyways, sorry you had a down day. This is just not easy and patience is a B.
Dude sorry you're having a rough time. Do you believe me when I say it will get better? I know it's tough to believe but it will. Hang in there man!
I do...I know it will get better! I am hanging as tough as I can just seeing her lay with our sick D just hit me. I think it brought back memories and for a little bit I saw a heart. Just wish it was for me......it's just so hard to imagine that her feelings could or would ever change.
Hey man how are you doing today? Ready to get back on the horse?
LOL.....yeah I am back on it. Home again with my oldest today who is still sick. Currently listening to a relationship podcast for my personal development.
So yeah...back to DBing. Just a frustrating day and when you think you have made changes, improved yourself but you get nothing back in return it is not a very rewarding path.
It's just so hard to imagine that she would ever get those feelings back. The only thing I can think of that is positive is that we are not doing things intentially to hurt one another. So I know she has not lost all respect for me or whatever feelings she may have lost which gives me some hope.
But yeah...I'm back
So yeah...back to DBing. Just a frustrating day and when you think you have made changes, improved yourself but you get nothing back in return it is not a very rewarding path.
I think in most cases when it gets to the point of ILYBNILWY the perfect DBer can't stop the run away train. It may be years down the road before your W realizes she f'd up big time.
Keep the course you're doing great!!
I agree, I can see why people don't stay the course. You start off thinking 3 mths, maybe 6 mths then it goes longer and your like WTF, I am out.
I think if anyone chooses to stay the course it is because they are so comfortable and confident with themselves which enables them to handle the rollercoaster good and bad. They can also can keep their emotions in check which doesn't push the spouce to far away.
This stuff is not for the weak...........
LH - I get that when it gets to the ILYBNILWY stage, it's just too late to turn the ship around in 12 months or so. May take way longer. Which brings me to your status - are you still standing for your MR and hope for a recon? What has happened that you've not cut bait and just run free?
J dawg - yeh, stuff is not for the weak but how long do you stay the course? Lets say you get to detachment and no expectations, but then there is that turning point when the LBS turns to the WAS. But there has to be a finish line for the LBS because you have to go and live your life. What is someone amazing comes around the corner after 12 months, 15 months, 24 months etc?
I get the standing for your MR and values, but that cannot be sustained indefinitely.
I think if anyone chooses to stay the course it is because they are so comfortable and confident with themselves which enables them to handle the rollercoaster good and bad. They can also can keep their emotions in check which doesn't push the spouce to far away.
I tend to think that a comfortable and confident spouse would tell a cheating spouse to p*ss-off. Maybe I'm wrong.
Maika,
The fact that my W is the mother of my children I don't think I can 100% close the door on a possible recon. What I do know is that it would take an intense amount of work on her part which at the present moment I feel is next to impossible. I do know I have zero interest in being in one sided relationship which I was for the last three years.
I am running free. (still in the D process) I met a girl 11 years younger them me at the beach this past weekend. We are complete opposites but were both intrigued by one another. After spending one day with her she said your W has to be a fool to leave you.
Once you guys get to the point where you realize you are going to be fine one way or another and get your "quan" back for yourself, you will start loving life again.
The fact that my W is the mother of my children I don't think I can 100% close the door on a possible recon.
I guess I can see where you're coming from on that.
What I do know is that it would take an intense amount of work on her part which at the present moment I feel is next to impossible.
I think this part is really important - they have to do an intense amount of work, otherwise the LBS just ends up in the same place as before. I think that so much time has passed and with water under the bridge, you would be really looking at reconnecting with someone completely new - the old W is gone you know.
Back on my game....W came over for about 10 min to check on my D who was sick. She was upbeat and in good spirits. The interesting thing is that she came rang the doorbell to the house and did just enter through the garage door. I didnt say anything to her but she is obviously trying to respect my space.
She had a new dress on, I did tell her it looked nice. She said, "Thanks", I got it before school started. After she checked on my D, she said she was off to do her workout video before she lost the motivation. I said ok cool have a good night she said you do the same and off she went.
Not sure why it hit me last night but i am ok right now.
I am not sure if this means anything or not but she is clearly not trying to respect my space without me asking her to do so and if she is dating, etc. she is clearly not trying to flaunt it in my face. Again I don't know if this is good or bad but I guess if recon is possible that might help. Not sure.
Respecting you and your space is always good. You are doing something right.
Thanks G...I apprecaite it! It's good to hear that it is a positive sign.
My D is home sick again and I am doing some reading while working from home
. In the book I am reading it talks about the following, hopefully you all will find it useful.
When men realize their marriage is bleeding out, they must slow down so you can find the real source of the bleeding. Panicking and thrashing about will normally lead to certain death. Triage is vitally important. Most guys want to work on everything...all at once. What I realized is there is no miracle cure. There is nothing you can do to help. The best thing you can do at the moment is stop the bleeding and to stop doing the things that will increase the bleeding. Guys are doers, we fix stuff, that doesn't work in the emergency room marriage.
If you want to have any chance of saving your patient (MR) stop doing these things immediately:
1. Angry outbursts, yelling, screaming, punching holes, etc.
2. Questions, questions and more questions. Heated Interrogation.
3. Any sentence that starts with who, what, where, why, when or how.
4. Deep, heavy, long conversations until your eyes bleed.
5. Accusations, blaming, finger pointing and complaining.
6. Ten paragraph text messages and emails.
7. Having emotional conversation in text messages.
8. Pinging her with text messages every 30 min.
9. Scouring FB, Instagram, etc. every 5 mins.
10. Snooping, spying and interviewing family and friends
11. Pressuring, pushing, demanding, controlling and or dominating the situation.
12. Being nice, super nice, overly nice or sickening nice.
13. Buying gifts, special dates, vacations or even new cars
14. Incessant cleaning and toiling over housework.
15. Crying
16. Talking or complaining about it to your kids.
Start with those first and the bleeding will slow down. The more you stop to fix it the better chance she may be able to hit the reset button. Patience at this time is excrutiating, and there is no guarantees. Stay calm, breathe, get a grip and stay focused.
The best thing you can give yourself at this time is calm confidence. You don't need to do anything physically you just need to be unshaken, cool-headed and compassionate. Be focused on how you think and realize this is not all your fault. Her downward spiral must not suck you down with it. You can't help yourself or anyone else if you go down there. Realize you have a higher purpose right now. Don't loose your $hit, you owe it your family and yourself to stay clear-headed and strong. This is not all about you and you can;t allow it to crush your soul.
Is part of this about you? "Yes", no doubt and this is the time when men can use this to spark a major mojo transformation! Don't feel personally attacked. Understand the real reason why this happened. If you can understand then it makes it possible for you to have empathy for some of the confusion and pain she is going through. If you can muster true empathy, you can stop doing the destructive things I mentioned above and start feeling your own clear, calm, confident strength within.
From my experience, this is often the only thing she really needs from you at this moment.
At some point since BD. I have hit everything on that list except for about 3 things. Now I am doing so much better. There stuff should be taught in IC, because I seriously could have used DB'ING initially.
T.....i agree, there is so much information out there sometime i feel as though my brain is on overload. I think the quicker people can adopt these rules the better off they will be personally and probably the better chance they have to save their relationship. I personally don't think mine is, I think my W was 100% done when she walked out the door. To quote her...."I know this won't work, I just feel it 100% in my bones".
As I have been reading and reflecting I have been keeping track of things I will implement either with my W or the next relationship I have. I thought I would share in hopes that maybe it will resignate or inspire someone else:
1. Do not apologize for how I feel
2. Be happy outside of my relationships, I am 100% accountable for my happiness.
3. Become self-reliant
4. Don’t chase sex.
5. Her feelings don’t define me or effect my moods
6. Go to bed content and wake up happy
7. Talk more clearly and boldy, don’t fear reaction or judgement
8. Trust myself, be decisive and don’t seek approval
9. Don’t be an [censored].
10. My happiness is not based on feminine approval, sex or unconditional commitment.
11. Owning our own happiness and facing our fears is scary. Fear of change and the unknown freezes us in place.
12. Don’t ask too many questions, where are you going, what are you doing, who are you texting, etc.
13. Don’t ask are you okay? Whats’ wrong? Are you mad? How are you doing?
14. Be calm, deliberate and pleased. Cool headed, secure, reagal, aware, curious, playful, loving, protective, brave, sensitive and caring.
15. Be goofy, fun, flirty, sexy, don’t analyze her moods and don’t give $hit what she thinks
16. I AM THE PRIZE!!!!!
17. I am worthy of love, inspiration and passion
18. Women can feel your intentions
19. Don’t ever think she is not a sexual woman
20. She has no choice but to lead if you’re not trying
21. She expects you to understand how to help her feel safe emotionally
22. She picked you for a reason
23. No tit for tat….
24. I just want to relax
25. I just want to feel like I can count on him
26. Connect…..shut off the computer, the phone, your work brain. Be awake and aware
27. Invite……into a funny moment, a goofy look, random kitchen dance, a dirty joke, 5 sec kiss, loving hug, to a vacation
28. Create…..new conversations, dreams, inspire her to dream about something bigger
29. Don’t fake affection
30. Don’t make her feel stupid
31. Don’t interrogate
Dude you're going to be a modern day Don Juan lol!
Well a hot beach comber 14 yrs my junior would be preferred who finds me intellectually stimulating
To be accurate it was 11 years. You'll get there padawan. Remember I have 2.9 year head start. lol!
Oh wise one.....teach me your ways and how to harness the force. Eager I am.
W just texted me and told me she is going out of town for the weekend with 12 other girls to celebrate a friends birthday and they got a house real cheap. She also told me she would be home in time to get our girls on Sunday night.
Not sure why she feels obligated to tell me all this....she just could have went and I wouldn't have known the difference. I guess she just felt like I needed to know.
I just told her thanks, safe travels and where she could get the kids on Sunday.
It doesn't help to read into it; maybe she wants you to care and be a bit jealous, maybe she just said it without thinking much, or maybe she is friend-zoning you. No way to know for sure. Sorry :-(
I wanted to say that I liked your GAL ideas and the idea of digging deeper. Cooking classes sound great! Why not try both types? If you are the guy that brings a good bottle of wine, you will absolutely make new friends by the end of the evening!
Blu
Hey blu..I was thinking the same thing as I was typing it. It is odd for her to text me details of what she is doing but who knows....it really doesn't matter.
I think I am going to try both. I do enjoy wine and making homemade pizza. One of the classes was a pizza class so maybe I could learn a few new tricks.
Going by myself would be completely out of my comfort zone. I know I would feel wierd as I would proably be the only person their with no 1 else. Maybe the group would adopt me??????
I go to all kind of events by myself all the time. I think it shows a lot of strength. We have been taken out of comfort zones. Why not use this time to try ad many new things as possible.
Yeah I have the same issue - going out doing things by myself in group type GAL situations. I go to movies by myself, which I actually really like. But getting outside of your comfort zone is important and I am trying to find things to do that will allow for that.
Is there a wine club in your town? Just had a new wine bar open up in my town and I am going to go check it out in the next few weeks.
J-Dawg,
I want to pass along another thing I learned on my journey. I keep a gratitude journal that I try to write in everyday. I have so many things in my life to feel grateful for right now.
I also learned from Tony Robbins that when you're feeling grateful, you can't also be feeling depressed, sad, angry etc. at the same time. It's impossible.
M.....I don't know of any wine clubs but we have had a couple micro-brew type bars that have opened up which just serve beer. I have some buddies that I can meet up there, one of which is D'd from one of my W's friends that she just so happens to be going out of town with this weekend
I am going sign my D's and I up for a cooking class at the same place I was thinking about trying out for myself. they have different classes in October with Halloween themes. When I am there I could ask them about the adult classes and if any random, creepy single guys ever just go by themselves
LH - I like that idea, helps keep things in perspective. I started writing down ideas and thoughts for my next relationship but have not started journaling about my own happiness and what that looks like. I am sure once you started you realized you have a lot of things in your life to be grateful for. I think we generally focus on what we don't have vs what we do have. Like a retreat cottage on the beach or the W that just left us who probably won't return.
I did listen to some Tony Robbins stuff early on but more recently have been reading more. I like to mix it up so I need to gravitate back to the videos and podcasts as well.
I have my next IC appointment this afternoon and plan on spending more time talking about me than my W since nothing has changed on that front.
Well a hot beach comber 14 yrs my junior would be preferred who finds me intellectually stimulating
It happens. My GF is less than half my age, has blonde/ red/ purple hair, lots of tatts, blue eyes, a mouth-watering figure and is the sweetest thing you can imagine. She's also super sexy and quite pretty. For reasons I can't explain she thinks I'm some kind of Adonis. I don't try to convince her otherwise
She lavishes so much attention on me it's crazy. We've been together almost 3 years now and our relationship is still like we're in limerence. OK yes I may be indulging in some humble-bragging but seriously, I just wish everyone would take away from my sitch that even if you never recon with your W that doesn't mean you're not destined for an even BETTER, MORE FULFILLING, TOE CURLING MIND-BLOWING relationship! Even if you're an old guy like me
I do credit DB'ing for it. I don't think my GF would have given me a 2nd look at the man I was when I was married. But I embraced DB'ing and made myself into the "spouse only a fool would leave". Fit, good-looking, well-dressed, confident, successful. My W still left so yes, she was a fool, but a much smarter woman stepped in and took advantage of the opportunity
When I am there I could ask them about the adult classes and if any random, creepy single guys ever just go by themselves
Or single confident alpha males who want to learn how to cook for the special lady in their life so they can romance and seduce them properly.
But getting outside of your comfort zone is important and I am trying to find things to do that will allow for that.
I highly recommend to anyone going through this that you join a Crossfit box. Books like No More Mister Nice Guy talk about the importance of guys establishing friendships with other guys, well let me tell you, you will never meet more manly men than those in your xfit box, LOL! And there are as many women in xfit these days as men. The environment is such that you can't help but get to know the other people, and you become really close with many of them. Most boxes host parties and mixers and stuff too, so there's opportunities to mingle with the people outside of workouts. It's a great way to get in shape AND meet new people of both sexes! And there's no reason to be intimidated, xfit caters to people of all shapes, sizes, ages and fitness levels.
When I am there I could ask them about the adult classes and if any random, creepy single guys ever just go by themselves
Or single confident alpha males who want to learn how to cook for the special lady in their life so they can romance and seduce them properly.
<extends hand up for virtual high five>
Ooohh nice! thanks for the tip AS. I am going to look this up ASAP. Fits in nicely with my physical health goals too.
Also props to what LH said - nothing like an alpha male who can throw down in the kitchen.
LH - Yeah, no $hit. What the $ell am I thinking? Finding a class to sign up for.
AS - I got a buddy that does cross fit, I sent him an email to see how I can join up and try it out.
That's it J-dawg. You just ask the special lady to bring the bottle of wine and you'll take care of the rest.
Dessert on the house
Oh wow! Just reading an article on the Atlantic website called 'we expect too much from our romantic partners'. I don't know if it's against the rules to put a link to external articles, but check it out - it's definitely worthwhile read.
I don't know if it's against the rules to put a link to external articles
Yes it is against the TOS
Please start a new thread you are over 100 posts
Maika,
You and I are on the same page. I'm not letting my W see the best me possible before she makes whatever decision she makes.
I don't know what every person beliefs are on here.
But if you believe in the universe, than you have to know, if you walk away angry than the last thing your S is going to correspond you with. But if she walks away and you are happy, joyful, and confident, your S will be filled with doubt.
If you believe in our Lord and Savior, Jesus. Then you must have faith. Real faith, and if you truly believe you and your S are meant to be. No matter how far they go, they will be back. And if they fight coming back they will live with a life full of regret and that's what we are working on not having.