Old thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2758904&page=11Ok, so while we were together today, I mentioned I was going to get a new vehicle today. I told her because I wanted to make sure the insurance was up to snuff. I posted something on social media about hating the negotiation of buying a car. W texted me; "saw your post, how is it going?"
I do not need to respond to this do correct?
Well....she asked a question right? If she asks a question respond but keep it short, 2 or 3 words max. Don't respond right away because your in the middle of wheeling and dealing
.
I mentioned I was going to get a new vehicle today.
Last year when my W and I separated I traded in my family Silverado for 2016 Fastback GT. Put some 18's on the front and 20's on the back with Black Enkei rims.. That car became a major part of my GAL. Just driving with the windows down and some good music was therapeutic. She still hates that car
Update;
Purchased a new car today...I had to text the W while I was there because she had my car title. I asked her when she will be home tomrw for me to pick it up. She said she didn't know her plans tomrw; but she told me to come pick it up tonight. So after all the dealership crud; I told her I was on my way.
Arrive at her house; she is sitting on the couch talking very calm trying to engage in small talk. I simply told her I was extremely exhausted. She was excited to see the new whip so I let her see it and sit in it. Then we walked back inside and she sat back on the couch. I asked her if she had the title; it was in the table. I grabbed the title and walked to my shoes. I put on my shoes and told her thank you for setting it out and goodbye/goodnight.
On the drive home she called me but I did not answer.
yeah boy!!! You didnt answer because you had tunes cranked up and you didnt hear the phone ring!
Chris,
Nice. You crusin. Tunes turn all the way up. No time for phone calls.
Yes, it was nice to cruz!!!!
I have a question about the WAS/WaywardW in general. This might be a question for the vets; but in general or have you heard of the excuse; "the reason I am talking with them is because you are not trying". Or "I talk to the OM about you".
I am just trying to understand a bit more about those topics.
Oh yeah. XW LOVED to throw that one out there. "I spend all my time talking to him crying about you." It's BS obviously.
Loved that update Chris! Don't you feel like you're a baller now? Keep speeding on that empowerment cruiser. You got this bro!
BTW, that excuse about talking to the OM is just outta control. Like outta control in terms of how stupid they think we are. Serious pile of horse and donkey manure. It is so bananas that it's making me laugh right now.
I like the update. I am learning from your journey Chris19. You are doin very well. May everything work for the best for you.
Thank you all for the feedback.
I have a question for the board. Is anyone aware of a situation within this board where there the H was left behind and the Wayward W moved out and wanted the D? The kicker is, the M was fixed and now are still together. I can take this from the W or the H point of view. I am trying to find more insight to my specific situation.
Basically I am trying to find the same sit as mine, but the M was fixed. It is hard to search through every single post on this board, so I am just wondering if someone know off the top of their head.
Chris - totally don't follow you on that last post.
The H was left behind and the WW moved out and got a D right away? I think that might've happened in some cases. So many WW/WAS say they want a D when BD happens.
What do you the M was fixed? like an arranged marriage?
I am new to the forum so wouldnt know from here.
Personally after confessing to my H that I cheated I was away from him and even wanted to cut contact with him. He threatened that if I do he would have to talk to my family about everything. I had made up my mind to leave him and divorce because we have had many fights and he has been so passive. I got admitted to hospital and didnt even inform him. He found out from some person and he called. He flew in the next day and he was insulting me and saying bad things. I even made my mind that i need to leave him.
After a week or so when I was out of hospital he asked if we could go and see a MC. we went for 2 weeks. He was hurt but for the first time in years he was making an effort and being a good husband. Of course there are times he gets angry and I detach myself. I used to pursue him and be the one who keeps conversations and try to initiate communication all these years but now he is the one who makes an effort. He understands that I had not planned to cheat and I didnt love the OM. He is more supportive than before. He is not passive and making a huge effort to get the marriage going. Though we are still in there I can see light at the end of the tunnel. Seems our marriage may ed up being way better and already I am feeling my needs are being met.
Maika - Yes, you are confused. I am basically trying to find a scenario which is almost identical with mine....only further down the road and the marriage was fixed.
It can be from the H or the W perspective.
Love - your story is very similar to mine; just from the W point of view. That is what I was looking for (along with others if possible). So would you say you had the A with the OM because you H was passive, co-dependent, showed lack of boundaries with you (basically what ever you said goes)?
Let me try to answer you. I think I am a bit similar to your wife because in terms of education and career I think I have been blessed and have had very good positions that my peers havent had. My husband careerwise he is above his peers. I think maybe i might behave and my thought processes may mirrior your wife a bit though I do understand that people are different. My husband is a good person and very family focused, he provided for me and daughter. I must mention he is very attractive. When I cheated she was 8 years old. He is great dad. However, since we married he hs been passive. He would not make an effort to do anything or to resolve fights. When we had problems he would withdraw and avoid saying anything and he had so much resentment. He was not initiating communications or anything related to the marriage so I felt the need to plan for us. I would literally suggest what I need us to do and he would grudgingly go along and do. Slowly I would bottle in a lot of things that hurt me and as a result I lost desire for him. whatever I said he would do and he would not even make me know how he feels so it got to the point where I would feel he is doing out of duty and his heart not in it. Sometimes I would suggest something in a way to provok him to stand his ground and refuse and when I saw him comply I would get turned off. So basically all he did I felt wasnt coming from the heart. I am a quite a strong character and I easily say no to anything that I dont like. In his resentment he would open up to close friends about things happening in our marriage and I accidentally found out. That really made me feel he is a coward and doesnt have the guts to say things to me. I like to be in control so I decided to say things to provoke him to say his issues to me. He said he felt controlled and that I only like to do things my way and that I disrespected him. He told me he had decided to avoid communicating his feelings and decided to just give in to what I want so there would be peace. Problems got worse and he would burst and say bad things because of resentment he had. he withdrew from any form of intimacy and we would only have s*x only when I initiated. I also had so much resentment and things escalated to a point where I just felt overwhelmed and got extremely depressed to the point that I felt to work for months. Failure to work led me to spend more time and effort in work. I then met someone at work (sort of a workmate) who started to help me with a task. He proposed something very interesting and with my husband s blessing started wotking ont hat with him. (This person is a workaholic and not attractive to me- everything from his physical appearance and his character isthe opposite of what I like). In working and talking to me he noticed I was depressed and started asking about whats bothering me. For some time I tried to avoid mentioning anything to him. One day I was really low and he suggested we work over lunch and I opened up. He was having problems of his own in his marriage and seemed to understand. He would say compliments abt my intelligence, how i looked, how i dressed and I started spnding more time with him because I felt better around him. I would look forward to seeing him only because I liked things he said to me and how I felt around him. He met the needs that my husband wasnt for most of the marriage (affection, openly saying how he felt but standing his ground). He was himself around me and didnt seem controlled by me. I would say what led to the A was that I was vulnerable, failed to set boundaries and my resentment and unmet needs cemented the A.
My decision to leave were because I felt overwhelmed by guilt and feared the fights and accusations. I felt my H could never forgive me and i couldnt make things right and I thought divorce would be best. However, how my husband handled this is what made me stay. He didnt tell his friends about the affair and that gesture made me understand that he really wants to work out things. (Most times we had a fight he was always telling his friends so this showed me he has changed in that respect). He seeked MC and paid for it without even complaining. He tried to communicate more even when we were apart and when Im home he started coming home early (he used to come home very late and put his friends first). From the BD he initiates sex and when Im withdrawn he initates conversation. he has so much anger and sometimes he wakes up in a bad mood but he is a better husband. I can see so many changes.
I think how you behave after you found out about the A makes a difference to your wife. If you start to make changes in things she complained to you about it may make her see that there is hope that she can be happy with you again. If you tell many people about the A it may make it difficult for her to stop because she will feel that "there is nothing to loose after all everyone knows about it".
I hope I answered you.
However, since we married he hs been passive. He would not make an effort to do anything or to resolve fights. When we had problems he would withdraw and avoid saying anything and he had so much resentment. He was not initiating communications or anything related to the marriage so I felt the need to plan for us. I would literally suggest what I need us to do and he would grudgingly go along and do. Slowly I would bottle in a lot of things that hurt me and as a result I lost desire for him.
This basically describes me. Through reading the posts to my sitch along with others, it is obvious how the passiveness within the H can cause loose of desire with the W. I believe this is my major failure, and I kind of know because my W has expressed this before...I just never really understood it until now (which is prob too late). I am still trying to find ways and understand how to not be passive as a person in general to 180 myself. But I cannot seem to find to much literature on the subject.
Sometimes I would suggest something in a way to provok him to stand his ground and refuse and when I saw him comply I would get turned off.
My W has done this in the past; the most obvious form of this is when she told me about the OM when she first met him. She told me he made her feel like she wants me to make her feel.
I have a question for you; when you were involved with the OM, were you like addicted to talking with him? I made the mistake a couple weeks back to look at my W phone records, and she seems to call the OM constantly (multiple times a day - some calls are lengthy, other calls are just a few minutes). It just seems she talks to this person soooo much. She even calls the OM like right before or right after contacting me. What does that even mean?
Also, where you ever physically separated from you H? I am currently living apart from W.
yes I was addicted to talking to the OM because he would say things I wanted to hear and make me feel needed. I felt understood. Of course looking back he would listen to my frustrations with my H and made it a point to do that. I can say its all because he had information of what I am missing whereas my H didnt have and kept doing exactlty the same mistakes. I would talk to H and feel worse because he would repeat same things o actions that hurt me. There was a lot of tension between H and I so would feel so empty after talking to my H and would even want to talk to the OM more.
Yes I was physically separated from my H. Of course we had problems but distance made it worse because after being away I would think he would have changed for better but when I was with him and he had become more passive and said things out of anger I sort of gave up on us emotionally. When apart our communication was worse. What would really help is to try to work on how you communicate with her so that she enjoys talking to you. In my case a slight communication and seeing H trying to understand me would have helped. The first year of staying apart he tried and despite our problems I was positive about the marriage. He would come visit and did small gestures and that made me desire him. Some things he did were visit me and take 1 week work leave, talk more about us and asked what I wanted him to do differently, he had done a research of how to improve our sex life and small things I wanted him to do that he had never done before. The second year we drifted and the affair happened during the 3rd year of staying apart.
In fact we were fightin so much and thought staying apart would really help. Initially it did help because H missed me and had time to reflect on certain things and was making an effort. However our communication deteriorated from the second year and our marriae got worse. At times I would really miss my H but as soon as we start talking I would regret even talking to him and start having bad feelings. I think the things he talked about put me off.
Hmm, so do you think if your H detached from you more and GAL for himself you would have been more incline to see the changes in him? Or become more interested?
It seems the things you wanted from your H after being separated are exactly the opposite from what this forum and the things I have learned from reading Michelle's books are.
After the W dropped the bomb and moved out; it is clear detaching from her is the pathway to re-connection (per this website). But you are saying your H did not do that; he was more pursuant towards you?
Are you still involved with the OM? If not, what caused you to stop? Did you H make you do a no contact type of agreement?
I am still trying to find ways and understand how to not be passive as a person in general to 180 myself.
Are you going to IC? They can really help you with that. I was a passive person too and I am changing it up for myself and it is really awesome.
Things that I focus on:
1. Stand up for myself without worrying about how the other person will react.
2. Be more assertive about what I want and what my needs are.
3. Don't be wishy washy - say what you want to do and when.
4. Not avoiding conflict - handling it with poise and calmness.
Do all of those things without being rude, cold, and passive aggressive, demeaning, or mocking. Exude self-confidence and emotional control. Also do those things but create enough space to work with others.
This will not only help you get out of being passive, it will also get you mad respect from people.
M - Great thank you; you try to do this in every aspect for your life correct? Not only when speaking with S? Do you have any books you have read?
Yes, these changes are for every aspect of my life. I can tell you that it has improved my work life immensely as well, not to mention my friendships.
I am mostly talking to my IC about this and I read the Nice Guy Syndrome book, which was really helpful.
Chris, I suggest you google the book on "not being a nice guy". This is an approach for your entire life.
Love,
I'm interested in this answer as well.
Hmm, so do you think if your H detached from you more and GAL for himself you would have been more incline to see the changes in him? Or become more interested?
Not really. In my case my husband was not doing anything. He was so passive and sort of detached from the marriage. He didn't do that. I saw him trying to connect and doing things to improve the marriage.
It seems the things you wanted from your H after being separated are exactly the opposite from what this forum and the things I have learned from reading Michelle's books are.[/quote]
I think on detaching it is clear that if a person was already withdrawn detaching or going dark may not be recommended. see this link
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095 Are you still involved with the OM? If not, what caused you to stop? Did you H make you do a no contact type of agreement?[/quote]
In my case I stopped because sex happened by accident. all i wanted was to talk to him so when sex happened I felt so bad and woke up. All had happened because I was extremely depressed. Religion and morals played a huge role. I felt so bad and decided that even if I might divorce I dont need to cheat as it makes me feel worse abt myself. I decided to connect to my faith and read the bible and drew closer to God and had to repent. I stopped and cut contact without H even knowing then when I had healed I confessed to H on my own. I was not caught by H but I confessed then he contacted the OM to hear his side. He confirmed I ignored his contact even though he really wanted to be with me and he indicated he was disappointed that H wants to work things out and forgive me
Not really. In my case my husband was not doing anything. He was so passive and sort of detached from the marriage. He didn't do that. I saw him trying to connect and doing things to improve the marriage.
It seems the things you wanted from your H after being separated are exactly the opposite from what this forum and the things I have learned from reading Michelle's books are.
That is very interesting; and makes me question if what I am doing is helping or making things worse.
[/quote]That is very interesting; and makes me question if what I am doing is helping or making things worse. [/quote]
Can you be more specific about what you are doign?
LH19 -
After reading Lovelyp message:
Not really. In my case my husband was not doing anything. He was so passive and sort of detached from the marriage. He didn't do that. I saw him trying to connect and doing things to improve the marriage.
It seems the things you wanted from your H after being separated are exactly the opposite from what this forum and the things I have learned from reading Michelle's books are.
I was questioning if by me going dark I was doing more harm. I have been the passive, doormat within our M for a while now. She has reached out a couple times with texts such as "My god. Can't you tell I'm like prying for attention and understanding of where you're at" and "I'm sorry I've been immature the last week or two; I'm just overwhelmed with emotions".
So I now be acting a bit more interested in her? Because is me going dark "more of the same"; because I was the passive one in our M. I know she is still speaking with OM; but do I need to feed her a bit of my new self? Or continue the darkness?
I really have be practicing N/C, and detaching as best as possible. I rarely answer her calls/texts, unless there is a direct question related to money, or insurance, etc.
I would continue with NC if she is involved with OM. You are married and its not an open competition.
What changes could you have possibly made that are real in one month?
She wants to cake eat right now. Don't allow it!
As LH said. If there is an OM, nothing will be gained from you reaching out to her.
With going dark you need to assess and modify. If it is making things worse you need to change stratey.
Love - I do not think it is making things worse; because she is actually the one who has been reaching out to me.
I am saying this right now know; who knows what the future is holding; and if she is getting the D papers together??!?!
If she is with OM it makes you look really needy and desperate if you are reaching out, pursuing, etc. Your better than that.....don't do it. That is not attractive and makes you look weak!
I guess you need to read the thread about going dark. It will enlighten you on issues and learn from other people's experiences.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095
The above scenario does not apply BECAUSE THERE IS AN OM. Stay NC.
If you're read my sitch, you'll see my recent update on changing things up - esp around going dark with my W and make a 180 on it.
The ONLY reason I am changing it up is because there is no OM in the picture right now - that I know of. This allows me to do a 180 on the passive angle because I can take it slowly and not come off as pursuing. And I am doing it in tandem with improving myself and working on having no expectations and detachment.
If I find out that there is an OM, that would radically change my approach - full NC outside of kids stuff and going dark. This is not just so that I wouldn't look weak, but really having some self-respect for myself. You know you're worth more than this.
Improve passivity in all other areas of your life. Reaching out to her is not going to make you look good. In fact she might actually detest it seeing that as a 180 right now - why didn't he do it in the marriage; it's too little too late, etc.
You want to show her strength. This is not the way to do it if an OM is in the picture.
I have read it....if there is OM she won't be hearing from me. If she wants to end the R with OM then we can talk but until then I won't be chasing. Her choice.
I agree with Joseph9 and Maika. I think if there is still the OM then its not advisable to stop going dark. If you are always available then she will continue taking you for granted. Going dark will force her to feel what it is like not to have you.
Thank you all... This has been given me great insight. I will continue to update.
Chris, your W is not "reaching out" to you. She is temp checking. You are so enmeshed with her, and she wants to keep you dangling at the end of the rope while she has an A with OM. Before this is over, she's going to try various things to pull you back (Not b/c she wants you, but just to see if she is still in control of the emotional relationship), so beware.
You have handled her constant texting and calling pretty well. You need to get tougher and act as if you are really done with her, not interested in what she's doing.....how she feels.....or anything about her), and move forward. I tell you this b/c I know how that works with the WW, plus......it makes you much stronger. When you read this, you may wonder if I'm pushing a D on you, I am telling you what works, and changing the dynamics is the name of the game. Even if the M isn't saved, you come out a winner b/c of the changes you make and the lessons you learn.
She is playing you b/c she is used to controlling the relationship. She did, right? She worked you like a spinning wheel. This is your chance, Chris, to take charge of things. Instead of being a slave to her constant checking, pouting, invites for sex, calling all hours in the night.......shut off your phone, except when you need to use it to call out.......or, stop responding to her. Stop watching social media, b/c you will naturally look for her stuff. You must emotionally detach, and it's really difficult when you are watching her. Know what I mean?
Although your feelings are telling you that you don't want to detach, and your fear may rise up at times.........I promise you it will be good for your male confidence to GAL apart from her. Go completely dark on her. As long as she is cheating on you, there is nothing to discuss. That is taking charge of your life, instead of waiting around to see what she decides to do about her affair......will she choose you or OM. That's insane.
I'm going to tell you something else that I hope you will seriously consider. If you don't require her to work really hard to get you back (notice I said to get "you" back), and if you let her come back too early and too easily (no work from her), there will be an OM #2, 3, etc. In order to change the dynamics in the MR, you need to decide that you will not tolerate any disrespect from your W, or any woman you may have a future R with. You set the standards in your life, and you decide what you will tolerate. When you decide you will not be her backup plan, her puppet to control, or you taking a passive stance, and you are done with her cr@p........you will see amazing results. It's your call, not hers. This is your life! That is the key to changing the dynamics..... when you decide to take charge of your life, instead of giving all that power to her......and, take the initiative to let her go, and GAL that has no emotional attachments to her.
Sandi - thank you so much for the advice. Your wisdom and way of explaining everything breaks it down so well!!
You are right; there is really no other way. This is MY life!
Thank you. I am so glad you could interpret what I was trying to say.
Hi Chris,
You have the guru on your side, we all love Sandi.
If like me and you’ve been advised by Sandi you will see a constant in her posts about the Mr Nice Guy Syndrome MNG, I’m sure Sandi will straighten me out BUT basically in my case my WW shows/showed little respect for me if any and this in turn made her belittle me to the point of where she felt too good for me and obviously looked elsewhere. I’m not suggesting you are a MNG but have posted here a list I researched regarding the subject.
Obviously I agree with the rest on detaching and NC BUT have a slight tint on communication with WW which I won’t go into here.
Take from the below what you think is useful, hope it helps.
“NICE GUY” SYNDROME.
1. If it frightens you, do it. Don’t allow WW to dictate what you do based on the response you’re likely to receive AFTER you’ve done it.
2. Don't settle. Every time you settle, you get exactly what you settled for.
3. Put yourself first.
4. No matter what happens, know you will handle it.
5. Whatever you do, do it 100%.
6. If you do what you have always done, you will get what you have always got. < 180
7. You are the only person on this planet responsible for your needs, wants, and happiness.
8. Ask for what you want. How else does anybody know if you don’t voice your needs..?
9. If what you are doing isn't working, try something different.
10. Be clear and direct.
11. Learn to say "no." And hang the consequences…
12. Don't make excuses.
13. If you are an adult, you are old enough to make your own rules.
14. Let people help you.
15. Be honest with yourself.
16. Do not let anyone treat you badly. No one. Ever.
17. Remove yourself from a bad situation instead of waiting for the situation to change. Research “charge neutral”
18. Don't tolerate the intolerable — ever.
19. Stop blaming. Victims never succeed.
20. Live with integrity. Decide what feels right to you, then do it.
21. Accept the consequences of your actions.
22. Be good to yourself.
23. Think "abundance." believe your needs are important and that there are people out there who are happy and willing to help you meet them.
24. Face difficult situations and conflict head on. Passivity got you here, man up!
25. Don't do anything in secret.
26. Do it now.
27. Be willing to let go of what you have so you can get what you want. < This is important, look at your PAST R with your WW and see where it fell down.
28. Have fun. If you are not having fun, something is wrong. You are allowed to have fun even if your WW doesn’t like the fact no new R though.
29. Give yourself room to fail. There are no mistakes, only learning experiences.
30. Control is an illusion. Let go; let life happen.
Be strong.
Mark.
Park - great information here; much appreciated. I will try and focus on these items while I grow/transform into the M I want to be. I actually have a wedding this weekend so I will try and apply these the whole weekend.
Slight tint on communication with WW
What is your take on this; I'm not saying I will take that path because I do beehive Sandi and her guidance; I am just interested. And how did you come to this direction? Did you try the complete NC/Dark first, then it morphed into your current views?
Chris,
I’ve tried to make this short and written this 4 times now so apologise for the length of content.
“What is your take on this; I'm not saying I will take that path because I do beehive Sandi and her guidance; I am just interested. And how did you come to this direction? Did you try the complete NC/Dark first, then it morphed into your current views?”
Firstly let me say each situation is different and as such people will deal with theirs differently to someone else, in the early stages of coming onto these boards and DR’ing I found/find the advice slightly biased to R’s that are based on the WAS/MLC and NOT the A, in fact there is little in the DR book about infidelity.
Please I urge you to take Sandi’s advice I didn’t see it at first and was against some of it in the early stages of my situation but as time went on I could see how she’s bang on. Realise Sandi has a unique skillset here due to her own situation, use her advice.
I have also learnt whilst on here that giving advice can be very dangerous and very subjective, who am I to say what I’m doing is right for you? So take what I’m about to say with a pinch of salt and focus more on what’s actually working and getting the results.
Communication I feel is a key area in trying to RC, if we don’t talk how can we express ourselves? I again am all for the NC and definitely detaching (I see this now), and the best way to detach is to GAL!
What we must learn and early on is that we can’t control anybody else we can only control ourselves so what’s the point in trying to affect what WW is doing its more likely to do the opposite, not only that BUT has a detrimental effect on us mentally.
Now where I differ and get so many 2x4’s is I take the stance that no body leaves someone for someone worse, in nature I’m sure your aware the female is ALWAYS looking for the best partner, the alpha male the one that they feel will keep them safe and secure and of course good breeding stock. Initially you were this person and your WW “fell” for you but over time things begin to happen in a marriage and we get into a rut, without being taught the signs we don’t tend to repair these issues (no one is taught this) and we are where we are.
The AP/LO is ahead of you in this department, he’s being fed the answers by your WW through better communication they are literally talking about your short comings and of course he’s taking this all in and adapting to the information which of course leads to him being “mister wonderful” and her “soulmate”!
So what do we do? DR’ing and these boards would suggest NC, detach and again I would agree IF that suits your situation and you’re getting the desired results but some can’t help but have to have some sort of contact due to kids (< this is me).
I do see my WW almost every day, she’s still in her A but I have no choice due to my situation that’s how it is! So I adapt this and use a modified version of DR to try and gain some results based on the above, how do I manage this to my advantage?
I’ll mention this in my next post, this is getting way too long.
Mark.
Hi Chris,
My previous post outlined why the AP/LO is ahead of us with regards to striking the right notes with our WW’s, he’s been given all the aces and is winning all the hands BUT this can’t go on that’s the good news. Eventually the masks come off either your WW’s or the AP/LO’s, the fantasy ends and reality kicks in, where should we be when this happens…
DR’ing IN MY OPINION would suggest you work on “letting go” of her and work to moving forward in your life through GAL’ing and forgetting about the whole situation and let them go about their business. I AGREE.
What I have learnt is that not being a part of her A and being isolated from it allows for them to make the mistakes they’ll inevitably do, this is where patience comes in and you’ll need it in spades…
Actually you need to answer the question whether you want to RC the MR I assume you do.
Now I am doing DR –
No contact
Detaching
No pursuing
GAL’ing
Where I differ is when I have contact with my WW (I NEVER pursue her), I tend to be her sounding board I be civil and friendly! I have boundaries of course we NEVER talk about the A or her AP/LO, if she does initiate a conversation about this I either ask her to refrain from doing it or ask her to leave – simple (by the way this has never happened).
I want to build an atmosphere where I’m her safe place, somewhere she can come to to have someone listen to her day-to-day problems (work, finance etc.) and do this in a friendly manner.
[Putting on crash helmet] – I feel over time this method has been diluted on these boards, recently I’ve been reading the “Advice from Wise DB'ers” posts and early on this principle was adopted and now not! What’s changed? Again do what works for you BUT heed the vet’s advice.
I do this as I feel I need to take away the aces. DON’T GIVE THE AP/LO AMMUNITION to fire back at you, I need to be the better person be her anchor when thing get difficult.
When the mask comes off the AP and deterioration sets into the A you need to be the constant, the person who’s always been there with unconditional L and instead of isolating her TOTALLY due to true DR’ing have her know that there’s still something you two could work on – RC…
Please bare in mind Chris my WW is STILL deep in her A and I’m having none of it and don’t condone her actions I stay as dark as I possibly can literally as dark as I possibly can, work on me and “act as if” I know everything in MY and those of my childrens lives is going to be good with or without WW, doing this alleviates unnecessary heartache and allows us to concentrate better on ourselves.
Do what works, if it doesn’t work do something different.
What do I know..!
Mark.
Park - thank you for the in depth analysis of your sitch. Nothing is too lengthy on this board, it is great to read other peoples stories and experiences.
I just read you posts so I am kind of soaking it all up; sorry I do not have a lengthy response myself.
I do have a question for anyone here as well. My W is in a EA (possibly PA - never confirmed); and the person lives states away. This has no bearing on anything correct. She is still involved with somebody else; as such, I need to treat it as an A; and continue all the great motivational tools discussed within these last two pages of posts.
Chris,
My W OM is states away. She flew to the state he was in to visit her sister. She came back and I asked her did she see him she told me no. I belived her. I finally got into her phone. She lied. They did meet up. When there's a will there's a way.
If she isnt making you a priority then you need to DB. EA or PA is still an affair. You don't know what plans they have or making.
Chris,
"If she isnt making you a priority then you need to DB. EA or PA is still an affair. You don't know what plans they have or making."
Look at what Joe's saying here ^^^
This is NOT about WW and AP/LO any more this is about you, BUT by doing the DR principles for you it often has a bonus of the WW noticing the changes and potentially re-investing somewhat.
Join us all in the program and get working.
Mark.
Park,
Thank you for that breakdown on the Nice Guy Syndrome. Needed that for myself as well. And Thank you for mentioningvhow our WW has literally given the playbook to OM. My W mentioned in a text to her friend when the A A first started how great the sex was. But in the same sentenced mentiones mentiones how she held back from me in the bedroom for 17 years. But upon first meeting OM got as wild as she wanted to get. Like it never occurred to my W that maybe things would have been better between us in the bedroom if she hadn't held back with me. And then told a stranger everything that she wanted.
OM just has to sit back and listen to W talk about her complaints about me. And simply validate over the phone and in text, while doing nothing. Coming off as Mr. So Amazing, yeah that is what she calls him. All this while having the convience of not losing his own family. But W continues to give him the information to her playbook, while admitting to not telling me things that were bothering her.
So I ask myself at times. Would someone who swore at one time they loved you. Honestly give more details to a stranger than their H? Especially one they know is no good, but choose to mess with anyways.
My W mentioned in a text to her friend when the A A first started how great the sex was. But in the same sentenced mentiones mentiones how she held back from me in the bedroom for 17 years.
Like it never occurred to my W that maybe things would have been better between us in the bedroom if she hadn't held back with me. And then told a stranger everything that she wanted.
You know this blows my effing mind. I have no indication that my W is in an A, but I fully expect this to happen if it gets there. For years, I had asked her what she wanted in the bedroom and nothing zip. And then suddenly she has new friends and she's talking about how they have threesome's and yada yada yada... I was like, WTF you talking about (in my head) - W would have the dimmest light in the room during sex and never went outside of a very conservative script of what to do in bed.
It's absolutely bananas. If only she had used the space we had together to explore and find out what she wanted or whatever, it could've led to such an improved sex life. Now they wanna go Girls Gone Wild - it's unreal.
It's absolutely bananas. If only she had used the space we had together to explore and find out what she wanted or whatever, it could've led to such an improved sex life. Now they wanna go Girls Gone Wild - it's unreal.
My w told me I was the best sex she has ever had and how lucky of a girl is she......and now she pulls this stunt???? Don't even try to put the puzzle together!
What's up board. So it has been since last Saturday when I saw W for the whole car situation. After that, I maintained NC/Dark with nothing coming in from her end either.
I went to a wedding this past weekend and had a great time with all my friends.
Weird timing; just received a text from W; "hey, do you want to come over tomrw and talk?"
I actually have plans tomrw; so I am going to respond by saying I am not available tomrw. But how should I proceed after that? Do I need to say anything more?
Just say you are not available tomorrow but then give her a day/time/place you can meet. When you do, just listen and validate. Read up on cheat sheet to be prepared.
So I said, "I'm not going to be able to today. Also, would you be a little more specific on what you like to talk about?"
She said, "You and I and our next steps so we can move forward".
Weird timing; just received a text from W; "hey, do you want to come over tomrw and talk?"
I actually have plans tomrw; so I am going to respond by saying I am not available tomrw. But how should I proceed after that? Do I need to say anything more?
Just tell her you have plans and suggest a time that does work for you, maybe a few days from now. Something that happens a lot though is a WAW will say she wants to talk, you set a date/ time and she never shows and never mentions it again.
OM just has to sit back and listen to W talk about her complaints about me. And simply validate over the phone and in text, while doing nothing. Coming off as Mr. So Amazing, yeah that is what she calls him. All this while having the convience of not losing his own family.
But see, that is the power of validation. Our W's were not getting the love, attention and validation they craved in the M. So a stranger comes along and knows exactly how to fulfill those needs, and next thing you know we're getting BD'd. There's a lesson to be learned there.
And of course they are going to open up to that person sexually as well. Communication is a very powerful thing, it opens up all kinds of possibilities. We quit communicating with our W's, we give them the same old stale husband and stale sex and stale conversations week after week. At some point to a WAS that is no longer sustainable. So our takeaway from this should be that whether we recon or move on to a new relationship, we need to WORK to overcome our faults. How can we keep that R alive and interesting, and keep communication strong? This is part of the work we must do or we are doomed to get BD'd again some day.
Next text; "We basically haven't talked in over a month so I want to be sure we're on the same page".
AnotherStander,
Crazy part is that I always validated. But I can see how the conversations may have gotten old as well as the sex. We have been together 17 years. We both got predictable in many ways. Even though maybe thinks she is so fun and exciting. Only I her own mind though. But I can see how the fantasy of being with OM can have her feeling energized. Even though everyone in the outside called reality can see W progressively getting worse.
W came by the house the other night and has clearly put on more weight just in a month of being gone. Hair was looking crazy as well as if she hadn't done a thing with it. Crazy part is that she didn't look a thing like the IG photo she posted up the day before. It's as if she took a headshot with a wig from a certain angle. Then took it off and just did nothing with herself. Did just enough to impress followers. It's sad, but it shows that reality is settling weather she knows it or not.
Chris,
Same page in regards to What? She is sending these vague text.
Exactly; I'm not sure what W means in these? I told her she can come by after work tomrw as I will then be available. She said OK. Do I need to send anything else before seeing her tomrw?
Any tips on how I need to approach this conversation; what should I try to accomplish out of this convo; I am kinda building it up too much I know. It's just the first time in a month we will talk about the R.
Chris,
Just be in the mindset to validate. I would suggest reading over everything in regards to that. She could be talking about moving forward with the divorce. Go into the conversation with a clear head.
Yeah and don't worry about not having all responses prepared for her. If she says something that catches you out of the blue or you weren't expecting, say something like "I need some time to think about it". This way you can mull it over later and not give a knee jerk response to what she's saying.
Next text; "We basically haven't talked in over a month so I want to be sure we're on the same page".
Whenever the WW says you need to in a meet and talk.......beware! It's too late this time, but next time you may want to respond with, "Unless something has changed since our last talk, I have nothing else to discuss at this time".
Also, it would be better to meet in a public setting. In public, there are less chances of a dramatic scene. If she goes to your house, she is more in charge about when she leaves. If you go to hers, you can leave when you want.....but she'd likely set you up for a sexual temp check there (wearing little clothing, etc.). It's a temp check where ever you meet her, so be ready.
Your best approach is to be disinterested in her little game. Don't ask questions about how she's doing, or anything. Don't offer any information to her. Don't contribute to the conversation. This is her called meeting......not yours. Why are you sweating it? Don't be taken in by any tricks she pulls out of her little bag (like squeezing out a few tears and saying she doesn't know what she wants). Be strong, and show her you not impressed!
Sorry to disagree with some, but having another relationship talk will not benefit you, until she is ready to do the right thing. However, she is not there yet. She wants to have a regular talk? Nope, doesn't work, and it does not help bring you back together.
You know what you need her to do, in order to reconcile (don't you?), and until she is committed to do it......this "talk" is just more of her BS.
Unless she asks what will it take to try again, you are not interested, hopeful, or impressed by her little talk. You need to act as if you have too much going for you. Your disinterest will cause her to believe she may be really be losing you. That's the temporary goal.....to act as if you have let her go.
sandi - I am so appreciative you were able to respond here.
It's too late this time, but next time you may want to respond with, "Unless something has changed since our last talk, I have nothing else to discuss at this time".
Yes, I was hoping by asking W; "would you specifically let me know what you want to talk about"...it was my indirect way of asking what you said above. I guess I failed there and should have been direct.
Also, it would be better to meet in a public setting.
I actually had the idea of meeting a restaurant right by our works instead; and was going to tell her lets meet there tomrw.
You know what you need her to do, in order to reconcile (don't you?), and until she is committed to do it......this "talk" is just more of her BS.
Unless she asks what will it take to try again, you are not interested, hopeful, or impressed by her little talk.
I am trying to re-read through your nice-guy WW threads to figure out exactly how to handle that part of the R. I know I want to not be disrespected by an open R, and will not tolerate it...But I am trying to find more readings on this.
What would you suggest my response be if W asks, why I have not been trying or putting effort in saving the M.
Basically...I was not going to be in an open relationship where my W was disrespecting me?... is that too harsh. This conversation can go two ways; and I just want to get some advice if she starts asking me questions.
What would you suggest my response be if W asks, why I have not been trying or putting effort in saving the M.
Basically...I was not going to be in an open relationship where my W was disrespecting me?... is that too harsh. This conversation can go two ways; and I just want to get some advice if she starts asking me questions.
I would just say "W, I know what I really need to work on is myself, not the M. So that's where I'm placing my focus. I know that you don't want the M anymore, and I am respecting your wishes and not applying any pressure to you on that."
Just got this from W:
Do you even want to talk or is it pointless at this point? You don't seem interested in seeing me or talking to me
More from W:
That's how I'm interpreting your response to me trying to reach out to talk
Just an idea, but can I use what sandi said to use on the last page?
Originally Posted By: chris19
What would you suggest my response be if W asks, why I have not been trying or putting effort in saving the M.
Basically...I was not going to be in an open relationship where my W was disrespecting me?... is that too harsh. This conversation can go two ways; and I just want to get some advice if she starts asking me questions.
I would just say "W, I know what I really need to work on is myself, not the M. So that's where I'm placing my focus. I know that you don't want the M anymore, and I am respecting your wishes and not applying any pressure to you on that."
Isnt this what AS told you?
Yes; that was more if she would ask why I was not trying. Sandi expressed I should say something like; "unless something has changed since our last conversation (with the OM) I'm not sure what there is to talk about."
I like what Sandi said. Whats there to talk about if the sitch is the same - OM still in the picture
I am trying to re-read through your nice-guy WW threads to figure out exactly how to handle that part of the R. I know I want to not be disrespected by an open R, and will not tolerate it...But I am trying to find more readings on this.
Have you read the threads about the wayward wife and what to expect from her? If not, you may want to look through them before reading about the nice guy.
See how impatient she is, b/c you didnt jump when she snaqpped her fingers? It tells me some things about her. She is use to getting her way, and now she feels entitled.
My advice is to text her back one time. Tell her if nothing has changed since the last discussion, you have nothing more to say.
If you want to add icing.......tell her to go forward however she thinks is best, and you'll do the same. Then turn off your phone b/c she's going to pitch a tantrum. She going to accuse you of wanting a D. Whatever.......that doesn't mean she's going to run down and file.
Board Board Board;
So this was the text convo with W for the part hour after her texts from above.
Me: it has been a while; and i see why you would not understand where my head is at. I am talking about (Mr.X) the OM; I am not interested in being disrespected in a relationship if another man is still involved.
Me: I know what I really need is to work on is myself. So that is where I'm place my focus. I know that you dont want the M anymore due to the S and wanting a D, and telling your family it is what you wanted. So I am respecting your wishes and not applying any pressure on you.
W: that's cowardly and an easy way out. Im still fighting for this clearly if I am continually reaching out and you're doing nothing. If you want something you work on it and fight for it and make an effort and I may have made mistakes in the last couple of months but I've never stopped communicating to you and I've never stopped trying to make an effort now and then and I feel nothing from you anymore.
W: I've tried to ask to talk to you and I've tried to see you and I just get shut down. You're doing exactly what I've been bitching about for almost two years. When I want more from you and effort. You back away and show no effort. Maybe I've been disrespectful and immature at times over the last few wees but at least I'm trying and showing you emotion and trying to communicate.
W: You've done none of that and I can't take it anymore. I'm sorry if any of this is coming off wrong but I'm just really at a loss for words on all this. I just don't understand if you want something how you can just let it go so easily. It's been hurtful and hard for me to understand and makes me mad and I'm doing anything to try to get emotion out of you. I guess I don't have anything left to say now too. Wish we could have talked in person. Have a good night.
There is nothing to respond to. You already told her your boundary - there is nothing to discuss as long as she has a relationship with OM. If you felt absolutely compelled to respond, I would just write that. Short and sweet. But you have already told her that and so I don't see the need to repeat yourself.
Well, you used way too many words.
My guess is you were trying to apply all that had been suggested. Also, when validation does come naturally for some men, they end up sounding as if they are telling a woman how she feels and what she wants. Women don't like that.
So now, just go on about your business. She is responding the way I predicted, so don't try to contact her, and don't shift your stand. Don't sweat her accusations. She just wants to keep you in a holding pattern.
Sandi -
Yes, I tried to merge suggestions together; which became wordy. And I probably was subconsciously trying to explain exactly where I was - but I can see how I overstepped my role in this by using soo many words. I just hope it didn't put me many steps back.
I thought my first comment had an appropriate validation.
She responded exactly how you did predict. And, I assume she is not going to want to meet today after work like we planned yesterday. I will continue NC; and I have GAL plans this weekend.
It defiantly hurts the W still does not even say anything of an apology about the A/OM; but continues to blame me for being the same person. I know deep down, I am trying NOT to be the same person I was. I am taking a firm stance on what I want in a R or a MR; I am not allowing steamrolling over my emotions by my W; I am requiring certain actions by my W in order for us to continue...which I would have never done in the past. I would simply avoid all of the by pleading with her, and begging, without caring about the A/OM, or at least not bringing it up.
W: that's cowardly and an easy way out. Im still fighting for this clearly if I am continually reaching out and you're doing nothing. If you want something you work on it and fight for it and make an effort and I may have made mistakes in the last couple of months but I've never stopped communicating to you and I've never stopped trying to make an effort now and then and I feel nothing from you anymore.
Chris, do you know if she's having an A, or was having one but isn't anymore? You've been talking like she's actively in an A, but she makes it sound like she's not now but maybe was before ("mistakes in the last couple of months"). It's an important distinction, if she's actively having an A then I would chalk this all up to spew and stay NC but if she's not in an A then perhaps you should listen to her and try and communicate more.
All I know is W is still calling this person; due to phone billing records.
All I know is W is still calling this person; due to phone billing records.
That's everything you need to answer your questions. Her telling you that she's been trying, and feels like you aren't is code for "I really need you to remain attached so I can feel like my safety net is still in place."
I promise if you give in, this will get worse instead of better.
Here's the thing to remember about a WW, if you want her back. Don't fully disclose where you stand. That's what a lot of guys don't get. If she knows everything, then she has nothing to wonder about. She really needs to wonder if she could be losing the best thing that ever happened in her life....you.
I have seen the "need to explain" in many guys who have the NGS. Work in it, b/c you do not have to explain yourself, okay? Some M men get into that habit when they have a demanding W who tends to get angry easily. They become a puppet to her mood swings and basically live around trying to keep her in a not so bad mood. That is no way for a anyone to live. You have a chance to change that dynamic, starting now.
AS & East -
if she's actively having an A then I would chalk this all up to spew and stay NC
Thank you; I will chalk this up like you both said, and return to NC. I will not give in; it is not an easy road; which it was never expressed to be. But I am working toward creating a better Chris (let go of the NGS, become non-dependent, and set personal boundaries).
Sandi - I get how explaining myself fully could influence her need to pursue me more...it kind of put a pause on her, b/c I just basically told her everything, and how I currently feel. That was a mistake on my part. I def was in that habit in my M (explaining myself to keep the peace).
Hopefully by me going back to NC, she will begin to wonder again... I don't know. This whole journey has been a roller coaster of emotions (cue Ron Burgundy in the phone booth).
AS & East -
if she's actively having an A then I would chalk this all up to spew and stay NC
Thank you; I will chalk this up like you both said, and return to NC. I will not give in; it is not an easy road; which it was never expressed to be. But I am working toward creating a better Chris (let go of the NGS, become non-dependent, and set personal boundaries).
Sandi - I get how explaining myself fully could influence her need to pursue me more...it kind of put a pause on her, b/c I just basically told her everything, and how I currently feel. That was a mistake on my part. I def was in that habit in my M (explaining myself to keep the peace).
Hopefully by me going back to NC, she will begin to wonder again... I don't know. This whole journey has been a roller coaster of emotions (cue Ron Burgundy in the phone booth).
Sandi - I get how explaining myself fully could influence her need to pursue me more...it kind of put a pause on her, b/c I just basically told her everything, and how I currently feel. That was a mistake on my part. I def was in that habit in my M (explaining myself to keep the peace).
Don't beat yourself up about it. I did a huge temp check on my W almost three weeks ago because I needed to have clarity. I let her know I felt and told her everything too because I needed an answer. I know her answer is rooted in how she is feeling NOW, but I needed that to be able to move on and DB. Will she change her mind, who knows? - but I am not waiting around for it any more basically and it allowed me to not interpret anything she's doing as mixed signals.
So, keep up with the NC. I am also doing that except that I do correspond about kids. She doesn't know anything about what I am doing and all of that, which helps me in my detachment process but also creates a level of mystery for her.
You're doing good! Keep it up.
I have seen the "need to explain" in many guys who have the NGS. Work in it, b/c you do not have to explain yourself, okay? Some M men get into that habit when they have a demanding W who tends to get angry easily. They become a puppet to her mood swings and basically live around trying to keep her in a not so bad mood. That is no way for a anyone to live. You have a chance to change that dynamic, starting now.
+1000
Lived it. All I wanted was for her to be happy, and I'd have done anything to make that happen. When she was angry (which was, in hindsight, most of the time!) my focus was almost always around "how to make her not angry."
The net result of this is that I lived with an entitled child. And now I'm divorced from an entitled child, who feels even MORE entitled now than she did before, and whom I will spend the next 12+ years tied to through our little girl. As sandi says, that's no way to live.
Since sandi posted in the wrong thread, I felt the need to respond in the right one.
I thought my first comment had an appropriate validation.
It's okay. Let's look at it, just so my words may make more sense.
Me: it has been a while; and i see why you would not understand where my head is at. I am talking about (Mr.X) the OM; I am not interested in being disrespected in a relationship if another man is still involved.
I am not trying to see how critical I can be, and don't do this to pull you down. I think someone suggested some of it, and this is strictly my opinion, so take it for whatever you think it's worth. I suggest you keep yourself out of the equation. I'm not sure if you said all the above to her....or just the first sentence. I don't encourage giving much verbal validation to a wayward spouse, mainly b/c LBH's want to pursue and get too wordy, and the validation is often lost in all the other stuff. Unless you are gifted or rather skilled in art of validation, I think you could easily sound as if you are endorsing the wayward behavior....and/or kissing tail. Anyway, when you
do attempt to validate, keep validation points
short and geared toward her
feelings, not her actions......and not explaining about
you. Don't assume you know how she feels or what she's thinking. Never tell a woman how she feels.
Me: I know what I really need is to work on is myself. So that is where I'm place my focus. I know that you dont want the M anymore due to the S and wanting a D, and telling your family it is what you wanted. So I am respecting your wishes and not applying any pressure on you.
I doubt this caused any damage, I just think this part could have been left off. If the two of you had actually sit down together to discuss it, then sure....it would have been fine as an answer to "where you are about going forward". I think it is wordy, but that JMHO. My suggestion is to be careful about offering information that has not been asked from you. Know what I mean?
Sandi
I don't encourage giving much verbal validation to a wayward spouse, mainly b/c LBH's want to pursue and get too wordy, and the validation is often lost in all the other stuff
This defiantly makes sense the way you put it.
Anyway, when you do attempt to validate, keep validation points short and geared toward her feelings, not her actions......and not explaining about you.
Yes, understood! I do not know why I put that second sentence out there (about me being disrespected)...I let my emotions get the best of me and was acting out! Terrible for a DB'er.
My suggestion is to be careful about offering information that has not been asked from you. Know what I mean?
Yes, I do know what you mean; it acts in multiple ways to draw the WW closer or more interested. Again, I acted out of me feelings by mistake. I became angry with W that she really did not know where I was; or to put it in more true terms; her lies of not knowing where my head was at was making me upset. DONT RESPOND ON EMOTION/FEELINGS! Ah. I take some comfort in you telling me "I doubt it cause any damage".
Sunday update:
Went NC all weekend; had a great time GAL'ing.
Just received texts from W:
"I'm going to ask one more time if you'd be willing to come talk to me. I don't know exactly what I'm going to say but id really like to see you and see what emotions come up. I can't give you any promises or expectations bc I don't know exactly how I'm going to feel or what's going to come out but I'd like to see if you are willing."
We are meeting up after work tomrw. I am going to keep sandi's advise very handy, and read it over prior to the meeting. I do not know why but I am nervous. I guess I just do not want to take a step back in this whole process with the W.
I will act disinterested in the game she is playing. Provide little information of myself; and try not to ask questions about how she is doing. I will try to be strong and show my fairly new self; and not be impressed by her game.
Good luck Chris. Don't place too much pressure on yourself for this meet. Sandi has given you everything you need and you'll do fine. Come back and let us know what happened.
Just got a text from W:
"Hey I might need to move this to Tuesday if you can. Im feeling overwhelmed today with emotion. Panic attack status so not sure if it's the best time to talk. Can I just text you a little later and see".
I remember someone on the board telling me that it is not unusual for a WW to set up a meeting and then cancel.
What is the best approach here. I actually cannot do it tomrw, I have other commitments.
"Hey I might need to move this to Tuesday if you can. Im feeling overwhelmed today with emotion. Panic attack status so not sure if it's the best time to talk. Can I just text you a little later and see".
If she's not emotional stable to meet in person, then I would not think it would be a good time to text.
I think she is going for one of three things. She either wants to vent her rage on you, or she needs reassurance that you are still her backup if nothing else works out for her, or she's having a pity party and wants to hear you validating her.
That makes sense when putting it that way. I did text her back before I saw your response with a simple: " I am not available tomrw".
W has not texted back yet.
Okay, then just listen to her talk. Nod your head, if appropriate. Do not start repeating a bunch of stuff you've heard on the board. Just listen.
If she is basically saying the same old stuff, then don't try to change her mind or argue with her. If, by chance, she says something about going back together.......keep your cool! This is the time you look for any sign of remorse, an apology, take responsibility for her actions, make some kind of statement of her wanting to do whatever is necessary to get you back and save her M.
If she does not show any of these things, do not agree to take her back. If she still show a bad attitude, or still blames you for everything, or wants to move in together but stay in separate bedrooms..........shut it down right then. She is only seeking benefits/comforts of the M without taking any responsibility as a W.
Remember these words, in case you don't know how to respond to her proposals (if she should make any), "It's not that simple anymore".
In other words, you are not going to walk back into the same MR you left. There should be some things you require before entering into another R with her. Do you know what those would be? She may not ask what will it take to save the M, but you should still be ready with an answer.......just in case.
Remember, don't volunteer this information, unless she asks.
UPDATE;
We ended up meeting yesterday; I went to her house. W started off with some small talk; trying to be engaging, and I simply was providing precise short answers, without being rude, and keeping my cool. With her noticing my short responses, she started to talk.
- I want to let you know, I cannot remember everything which was discussed, so I will try to do my best.
She started by explaining where she was at from an emotional standpoint; I did not validate, I rather just actively listened to her. She talked for a while explaining her view point and how it was discouraging that I was "doing more of the same" by not actively trying to pursue her the past month. This is when I spoke up; looking back, I probably provided to much information; but I explained how in my mind I was actually doing many things.
I explained I was looking into the past to develop an understanding of where I went wrong in the R/M; so I could work on those things myself. I was not going to push and plead and make empty promises which I have in the past to her; I needed to become the person I need to be in order to be happy in life in general. Here is where I might have going on too long. I explained to her where I thought we both feel short; my self confidence took a back seat to me nice guy attitude which lead to disappointments, which lead to disrespect and to resentment. This all lead to the biggest prob in our M which was lack of intimacy and sex.
I kind of stopped there and let her continue most of the conversation. She brought up things which we had already discussed... Then told me she was mad at my for not trying and did not understand.
I said; Because I have learned things about myself, I realized I will not be in an open relationship; this is one absolute I feel deep in my core now. And also I told her how I never received a complete apology for the EA/possible PA.
I noticed something in her eyes and her body position that was kind of turned on/or taken back at the least.
From that point on in the conversation; she began to cry and explain how she was so regretful and full of guilt; and everyday she battles herself. She asked me what it would take for me to give it another shot; and I said "I am really not sure, because it is not as simple anymore" ---- I said this without seeing Sandi's post (wow)! I explained I would need complete transparency, no contact/number blocking with OM; and time to gain trust back.
She then asked what I would want to see in the next 1 to 3 months if we did reconcile... I did not want to give much here; because I really don't know right now; so I just said "I cannot answer that right now; I would have to think about that".
After that, she showed me a pic of our niece; and said she was kind of emotional drained for the night. I told her it was getting late, I got up, hugged, and left.
I stayed calm, and not so much disinterested; but more unimpressed by her tears. I did find it comforting as she was explaining she was "still here; and was apologetic about acting immature with the ultimatum the past couple weeks"; she admitted it was just to get arousal out of me.
I just blabbed for long enough...one thing she still fears is the lack of physical intimacy. I need to read up on the SSM; and how to overcome this long period.
Well done!
Now, go home and start thinking what else it would take for you to want a reconciliation. What will it take for you to feel safe in a MR with her.
Yes, read the SSM book. From my point of view, when a guy finds his b@lls, it won't take long for nature to take its course.
Oh, and I'm not sure I would buy into her excuse of just wanting to get your attention and have you pursue her. If so, guess she sees it didn't work. My point is don't let her twist things and make it your fault for a third person.
Is there anything I need to be doing different at this point in time? Or just maintain my NC/180?
Just continue to play Mr. Cool Guy. You do not want to rush back into something with her too quickly. Think of what you want if there is a reconciliation.
Here are a few examples:
She agrees to transparency........ You don't warn her or tell her when you will check to see if she is working to earn back your trust. Then some night when she's sleeping or she lays her phone out while she's doing something else.... look at her phone, or some other method. Not every night, but random times. (If she knows in advance, she could delete anything she didn't want you to see). If she is not being honest, it will eventually show up in phone activity, or something else.
She should agree to No secret passwords, deleted messages, etc. No leaving the room or closing doors to talk on the phone, skype, etc.
She should agree to No secret friendships. No friendships with men that exclude the H.
She has to end all manner of contact with OM. Never to contact him again.
Attend MC about the sex problem, and any other issue.
Sleep in the same bed.
If she has been in a sexual affair, you may consider telling her you want her tested for STD.
I'm speaking as a former WW, and these are things that will help her to stay on track.....especially in the early weeks of piecing the M back together. She probably won't be happy about some of them, but if she balks.....you might reconsider how much or how serious she is about doing whatever is necessary to repair the damage done to the M.
Take it slowly. You can respond to
some of her texts, as long as she is showing the humble side you saw earlier. However, if she starts that childish stuff again, stop responding. Be cool, calm, and collected, Let her pursue you.
Even if she agrees to your terms, you may want to give her another couple of days to think on it. You don't want to go back to her, only to discover she isn't serious about working on the M.
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