Not going to do a recap, but just jotting down some things that W is holding against me:
1. I didn't open up to her about my fears, aspirations, challenges etc. about life.
2. She felt like I did not view her as a safe person for me to be vulnerable with.
3. I didn't share with her what I wanted out of our sex life.
4. We never spent quality time together in the last few years.
5. We had different ideas about finances.
Her LLs are physical touch and quality time - both which are hard to accomplish while DBing, but I am taking a slow approach with some gentle steps.
I've been working on having zero expectations, but I realized last night that I was not even close. I thought about it more today and saw that I was expecting things to turn around fast. GAL has suffered lately, but I am getting back on it. I did feel a sense of love towards W in a detached way when I started thinking about not having expectations for my actions.
Not going to do a recap, but just jotting down some things that W is holding against me:
1. I didn't open up to her about my fears, aspirations, challenges etc. about life.
2. She felt like I did not view her as a safe person for me to be vulnerable with.
3. I didn't share with her what I wanted out of our sex life.
4. We never spent quality time together in the last few years.
5. We had different ideas about finances.
Her LLs are physical touch and quality time - both which are hard to accomplish while DBing, but I am taking a slow approach with some gentle steps.
I've been working on having zero expectations, but I realized last night that I was not even close. I thought about it more today and saw that I was expecting things to turn around fast. GAL has suffered lately, but I am getting back on it. I did feel a sense of love towards W in a detached way when I started thinking about not having expectations for my actions.
I feel you, brother. Remember what you tell me.
Marathon, not sprint.
You will get there. We all will.
Not going to do a recap, but just jotting down some things that W is holding against me:
1. I didn't open up to her about my fears, aspirations, challenges etc. about life.
2. She felt like I did not view her as a safe person for me to be vulnerable with.
3. I didn't share with her what I wanted out of our sex life.
4. We never spent quality time together in the last few years.
5. We had different ideas about finances.
Her LLs are physical touch and quality time - both which are hard to accomplish while DBing, but I am taking a slow approach with some gentle steps.
I've been working on having zero expectations, but I realized last night that I was not even close. I thought about it more today and saw that I was expecting things to turn around fast. GAL has suffered lately, but I am getting back on it. I did feel a sense of love towards W in a detached way when I started thinking about not having expectations for my actions.
I feel you, brother. Remember what you tell me.
Marathon, not sprint.
You will get there. We all will.
Ha ha yes!!! Definitely a marathon.
I realized this early through my IC that I was not comfortable living in ambiguity. I needed some clarity about whatever that was happening. I kinda dropped that when I started DBing, but it crept back up yesterday. And reading the post about wanting to have a sense of control can drive the LBS to not wanting to live in uncertainty. But, that starts to wither away as soon as you start detaching and having zero expectations.
All in all, I just need to be start being comfortable in this ambiguity and give up this idea of trying to constantly strategize or control the sitch. It seems like nothing has come out of it that has been productive.
FIL and MIL left a few days ago and BIL and his wife are in town - yesterday and today. Yesterday W invited me for dinner outside with them and it was good. I get along really well with BIL and his wife. After the dinner, W thanked me for coming and said it was probably weird for me. I said, no it was great and I had a good time - upbeat and chill.
W invites me for dinner again tonight at her place with BIL and his wife. I'll go and see how things are, but will have a good time any ways.
These invites make it easy for me to engage in LL for W as she does see this as quality time.
Again, putting the hat of zero expectations on.
She invites you over for dinner a lot
. I would $hit my pants if my W did that. Do you feel any awkwardness from the in-laws?
Yehhh thats why I'm so tripped up. W wants S but then keeps inviting me for dinners and wine and sleeps in my bed for a week straight. I'm like WTF is going on?
In-laws are pretty alright. I'm just a bit more guarded but they do worry how I'm doing. They're definitely in the pro-marriage camp and want this to work out.
It would definitely be hard to detach and approach with no expectations. Sounds like you are handling it well and taking her up on the offers as when you went cold turkey on her I remember she didn't like that.
Just keep your guard up.......
Yeh she flipped out. My GAL got her to breakdown cuz I went dark about what I was doing. So that didn't work. But this slow approach seems to be working alright for now. I just have to have no expectations and continue GAL and improving myself. I got a new dope shirt in the mail yesterday and I was rocking it to work this morning and W noticed and liked it. I love the shirt and I knew I was looking fine as hell. She loves my dressing style and I slacked off on it during MR but now I'm back.
LOL......you see your W is interacting with you in a positive way which is a good sign.
Maika,
Keep up the hard work. She's taken notice, niccccceeeee.
When's the next DB convention. I'll bring the food and T will bring beers. The agenda will include Sandi giving a 4 hour lecture to all the LBS and literally smacking them with 2x4s during the Q&A sessions. I am guessing AS and TxHubby will want to join that action as well.
I would much rather see some of the WAS's get invited along for a nice 2x4! Maybe even a 4x4! I especially feel that way after reading T384's update, grrrrrr!
Had a great GAL activity last night - went to an open mic poetry reading with a featured guest. I don't write poetry but I love the form. It was fun and I talked to a buncha budding poets and writers.
Tonight is climbing night with one of my buddies. Gonna try a difficult route - lets see.
NICE! That's the stuff!
LLs for my W are physical touch and quality time - both very hard to do without coming across as being in hot pursuit. I haven't done any quality time with her in the last month or so. In terms of physical touch, the one thing I can do is give her hugs, but the last few days she has given me the one armed 'friendly' with some pats on my shoulder type of hugs - which feel like pity hugs lol.
Hahaha! Oh yes indeed, I remember those pity hugs all too well. That's your queue to quit it, she doesn't want that anymore. Honestly 5LL is more valuable in helping you learn what you did wrong for future reference, it's not easy to implement it post-BD. ESPECIALLY PT. Here's the simple truth of the matter, she doesn't want love from you now. Period. Not PT, not QT, not anything. Maybe she will again some day, and when she does you'll know what to do. But for now, set 5LL aside and give her time and space.
So, I dunno if I should just discontinue doing that - but she has the tendency to interpret that as I am upset with her or not into her any more.
If you are GAL'ing and she sees you happy and detached and full of life then she is not going to misinterpret your lack of PT and QT as you being upset. What about "not into her", well yes, you WANT her to think that. She'll never want you back until she thinks she might lose you.
I guess my zero expectations are after all not at zero.
EXACTLY!!!! I wish more LBSs could honestly admit that, because it is the case for ANYONE who is less than a year post-BD. A lot of LBSs like to live in denial though, they think they've dropped the rope and moved on but behind their back where they think no one can see they've got the death grip on that rope.
But, then if I do DB, it's just confirming her previous grievances.
Again, you have to understand her mindset now is NOT what it was pre-BD. If you've read many of Sandi's posts you've seen her talk about how WAW's cannot stand their LBH, they are REPULSED by their efforts to do 180's. With time who knows, but for now that's your reality.
AS - thanks for your feedback, esp about the LLs. A couple of points maybe you can help me with. Others welcome to chime in as well.
Hahaha! Oh yes indeed, I remember those pity hugs all too well. That's your queue to quit it, she doesn't want that anymore.
So, this evening I got a proper full hug from her when she came in, but got one of the pity hugs when I left - I will elaborate on this at the end. But yeah, I feel like I need to quit this right now because of 2 reasons: 1) I think I am doing this so that it can be something that is one of the things that turns the tide in my favor, and so having expectations of this; 2) I am just not into it; I don't feel like giving this woman physical affection right now.
What about "not into her", well yes, you WANT her to think that. She'll never want you back until she thinks she might lose you.
I definitely get the logic behind that. But, one of her main grievances was that I was not into her during the last few years in the MR and that I don't really care or love her. So, I feel like if I am communicating to her that I am 'not into her' anymore, it feels like I am just repeating what she believes happened in the MR. I am not acting like I am head in heels love with her, but she felt that she lost me in the MR and so this is just a confirmation of that. I don't want to be her plan B, but I don't want to give her ammunition for her perceptions - which are wrong btw.
If you've read many of Sandi's posts you've seen her talk about how WAW's cannot stand their LBH, they are REPULSED by their efforts to do 180's
Again, I totally get that, but I don't understand why she keeps inviting me to dinners and share a glass of wine. I know that there is cake-eating, but with a WAS there could also be really small steps to see reconnection. It definitely isn't strong signs of her trying to do recon, but I don't know if she's trying to do that or if it's her wanting to enjoy some aspects of the MR. IC told me that it might be a good time to have a chat about what she wants out of the separation - is it time and space, or does she want to take small steps for seeing how we connect. I am not sure about that right now because it feels like I am putting her in a position to make a decision, no matter how I phrase it. But a part of me thinks that I really need to have this conversation. I dunno.
So, the evening went alright - I offered to help with something and I shouldn't have, but it was a small thing and won't happen again. Had dinner with W, BIL, his wife, and kids and it went fine. I've started to pay closer attention to W's body language and the whole time during dinner she was facing away from me during dinner, maybe made eye contact a couple of times.
For bedtime, my S asked me to put him to bed and I did. Kid had a hard time going to bed. I put him to sleep 3 times and he came downstairs every time to see me off, with the last time just sobbing and asking me to stay. Ahhhh!! I was just so effin' cut up and raw from this. I took him back up every time and just gave him so much love and affection and tried to get him to sleep. The last time he came down, I took him back to his room and then W came in and said she would put him to bed. She had offered earlier too but I said I would put him to sleep as he wanted me. So, I left and I got one of those dumba$$ pity hugs.
The times when my kids are really not doing well with this, it just snuffs out any motivation on my part to work things out with W. I don't even know why I am worrying about what she thinks if I don't do PT and QT. Or that I go semi-dark and do NC. All of that has previously provided evidence for her grievances during MR.
I just don't know what to do. I just can't handle the hurt that my kids are going through and that I can do nothing about it. As I've said before, it is so effin' unfair for them and that they don't deserve this.
I just feel like shutting out W and not giving a flying fcuk what she thinks or does - but just be there for my kids 150% and figure out a life without W.
I don't want to sound defeatist or hopeless, but maybe I am the LBS that needs time and space from her. All of this family stuff seems so fake to me.
I don't think I am focusing on myself as much as I need to be doing. I am still stuck in the matrimonial home for about three weeks and I feel like it's holding me back in moving on.
I really just feel like sitting down with W and having one big conversation - what is her purpose for the S; you initiated the S, so you need to come talk to me when you're ready and I am not bringing MR issues up; I am upbeat and positive because I am working on myself and I have good professional help that is helping me work through pain and hurt; and maybe some other things.
I dunno. I am tired of playing some strategy game.
I just don't know what to do. I just can't handle the hurt that my kids are going through and that I can do nothing about it. As I've said before, it is so effin' unfair for them and that they don't deserve this.
I just feel like shutting out W and not giving a flying fcuk what she thinks or does - but just be there for my kids 150% and figure out a life without W.
I don't want to sound defeatist or hopeless, but maybe I am the LBS that needs time and space from her. All of this family stuff seems so fake to me.
I don't think I am focusing on myself as much as I need to be doing. I am still stuck in the matrimonial home for about three weeks and I feel like it's holding me back in moving on.
I really just feel like sitting down with W and having one big conversation - what is her purpose for the S; you initiated the S, so you need to come talk to me when you're ready and I am not bringing MR issues up; I am upbeat and positive because I am working on myself and I have good professional help that is helping me work through pain and hurt; and maybe some other things.
I dunno. I am tired of playing some strategy game.
M.......I dont have all the answers but I agree with everything you said I above. I realized the more I tried to hang on and put myself in these situation with my W the more hurt I got on the inside. I never walked away with what I wanted and it was starting to lead to more resentment on my part.
I think if you are going to continue you really have to have no expectations but it sounds like you kind of do.
We just left D's soccer game and my oldest creid for her momy most of the way home. It is frustrating to me but I no I have no control over the situation and approaching my W would only make it worse.
The only hope I have is that at some point she comes to her senses but that hasn't happened yet.
They say you have to be prepared to lose your MR in order to save it. I know whenyou were DBing hard it had an impact on her and you changed your strategy. Only you know what you comfortable with however I think you have to decide what your approach is going to be and stick with it.
I remember in one of my old posts asking Blu that DBing to me felt like I was doing nothing to save my MR other than working on myself and she agreed. Maybe you are trying to hard and placing too much focus on your W.
I remember not inviting my W to my bday party. It was hard not do but I knew it was the right thing for me as I do not enjoy being around her, getting pity hugs and not truely feeling like a family.
Thanks J.
I think I need to separate what my kids are going through and just be there for them and keep them grounded, from whatever is between W and me.
I am going to talk to a DB coach about sitting down with W and having a conversation. I have IC next week and will chat with her about how to approach this too. I don't want it to happen from emotion and just being impulsive. She is also expecting me to take the lead with this and so instead of having some long conversations about the MR, I just want to state some things and then leave it in her court.
I also don't want to plan this convo until early October after I settle in my new place. I need W to work with me to settle some house stuff in the next few weeks and I'd rather not have a tense situation.
I think I need to figure out what's right for me and what makes me feel better, grounded, and empowered. All these frequent interactions with W are not helping.
I need to up my GAL a bit and work on detaching. Hope AS comes by soon and gives me some 2x4s.
I need to up my GAL a bit and work on detaching. Hope AS comes by soon and gives me some 2x4s.
Paging AS! I am sure he will be along very soon to build you up and break you down with a few strokes of the keyboard!
I think I need to separate what my kids are going through and just be there for them and keep them grounded, from whatever is between W and me.
It's hard to not let the one impact the other but you can't control it. There have been a couple of times where I was close to saying something to my W about what she was doing with our children. I don't really see anything positive about her being at a friends house with my girls and her friends 20 something yr old neighbors coming over. After I thought it over though I realized I can't control it, ultimately I have to trust her as a parent and that she will not subject our D's to anything they shouldn't be around. I think it all stems from the loss of control.
I am going to talk to a DB coach about sitting down with W and having a conversation. I have IC next week and will chat with her about how to approach this too. I don't want it to happen from emotion and just being impulsive. She is also expecting me to take the lead with this and so instead of having some long conversations about the MR, I just want to state some things and then leave it in her court
.
I have 1 session left and am saving it until something major happens and I see a real shift in her actions. I think if you are going to continue to go over for dinner, have sleep overs or whatever you really have to have no expectations and some how figure out a way to detach as well to protect yourself.
Whenever I think about reaching out to my W, trying to make an effort or am feeling weak and want to ask her out I always think about how she has treated me and the dates or interactions she has had with other men. Those thoughts always ground me and bring me back to don't do it you are better than that.
I also don't want to plan this convo until early October after I settle in my new place. I need W to work with me to settle some house stuff in the next few weeks and I'd rather not have a tense situation.
I struggle with that now also. When she first moved out we talked about mediation, collaborative D and getting through this as cheap as possible. I don't want to ruin our ability to work together as I am navigating the limbo and DB process. Sometimes it is not always as black and white as some people make it out to be.
I think I need to figure out what's right for me and what makes me feel better, grounded, and empowered. All these frequent interactions with W are not helping.
I agree!! It's all about M-train!
I need to up my GAL a bit and work on detaching. Hope AS comes by soon and gives me some 2x4s.
I am sure he will give you a couple 4x4's!
It's hard to not let the one impact the other but you can't control it.
very true. It's hard not to blame W for what the kids are going through because she put us in this situation, instead of trying to work with me and not break up the family like this. So, resentment can build.
I think if you are going to continue to go over for dinner, have sleep overs or whatever you really have to have no expectations and some how figure out a way to detach as well to protect yourself.
I am going to phase out the dinners slowly. Sleep overs haven't happened since that week and so that's not coming back any time soon, which I think is good - for me emotionally.
I am going to phase out the dinners slowly. Sleep overs haven't happened since that week and so that's not coming back any time soon, which I think is good - for me emotionally.
I think this would be good conversation to have with your IC, DB Coach and the experienced folks on this board. On 1 hand she is reaching out and inviting you which is positive however it is impacting you emotionally. I thought I remember you telling her one time that you didn't want to go on a hike with her and the kids because it was too painful. Then she came back and said well we are here or something when you are ready. Did you ever get to the bottom of that conversation?
Yeah I haven't gotten to the bottom of that conversation. She basically said at that point that she's not going to reach out to me and that she will wait for me to talk to her - which kinda infuriated me because I didn't ask to be in this situation so the onus is on her to bring it up - but I think I need to take a lead on this and that's why I am thinking of having the conversation about the point of the separation for her now that we are a few months from BD.
It's impacting me emotionally because I don't know what her intentions are - like why is she reaching out to me when she asked for a S, which I understood as her wanting time and space. So, if I am reading that wrong, I'd like a clarification.
I think that if its inadvisable to have that conversation, then I need to respond positively to her reaching out and reciprocate, but have to emotionally detach - otherwise, I keep thinking this means something but in fact it might just be her wanting to spend 'family' time.
Detachment needs to happen hard in any case, which is where I am struggling right now.
But, one of her main grievances was that I was not into her during the last few years in the MR and that I don't really care or love her. So, I feel like if I am communicating to her that I am 'not into her' anymore, it feels like I am just repeating what she believes happened in the MR.
I have the same issue. My W is still in the house and is starting to rethink her decision to leave. She also says that I never really loved her, that I took her for granted and that I expected her to handle "everything" for me. I feel as though her invites to dinner, movies, walks, etc are some sort of olive branch and following the DB rules, I am denying her attempts to begin reconciliation.
Yeh mxdup - the issue is that whether these little things are actually small olive branches for gently reconnecting or just bread crumbs to keep the LBS emotionally involved. It is hard to decipher. But, I think that if you just look at them as bread crumbs that mean nothing and detach and keep working on lowering expectations, then the invites become easier. My problem is that I am not at that stage of detachment and low expectations that these invites don't cause emotional harm to me.
And upping the GAL and focusing on your own improvements is truly the way to get to detachment and zero expectations. I just haven't been doing that as hard core in the last little while and it has impacted me. I need to consistently keep building myself so that I can see the bread crumbs for what they are instead of trying to divine some explanation.
I now see that there is a big difference between attempts at reconnection and reconciliation. If the LBS treats the former as a fun thing while being detached, then it is fine. I think the problem comes from confusing the former as the latter. From everything I have read here, signs of reconciliation will be obvious and you won't have to second guess them.
mxdup,
Why are you denying RC?
Is your W in an A? I cant understand that with the right advice and counselling and dedication from you both you wouldn't want to RC your MR!
Please read some of the piecing threads if you haven't already and don't waste this opportunity. Stop all the hurt and move on in a better MR.
Mark.
I definitely get the logic behind that. But, one of her main grievances was that I was not into her during the last few years in the MR and that I don't really care or love her. So, I feel like if I am communicating to her that I am 'not into her' anymore, it feels like I am just repeating what she believes happened in the MR.
I understand. But again, she has undergone a major shift in mindset. She is a WAS. That's a much different dynamic than dealing with an unhappy W. With an unhappy W, if she tells you that you're "not into her" then it's simple, you need to pay more attention to her and make her feel special. But when a WAS is telling you that, she's not asking you to change, she's TELLING YOU WHY IT IS OVER. Do you understand the difference? Anything you do now is chalked up by her as "too little too late". An unhappy W WANTS you to change. A WAS doesn't give a crap, and in fact when you do 180's it makes a WAS angry. "Why is he changing now when it's too late? I told him over and over again what the problems were and he did nothing, so why now when I've already made up my mind?"
but she felt that she lost me in the MR and so this is just a confirmation of that.
Don't oversell the hugs, they're just hugs. They're not making her think "oh wow, he's really done a 180 and is paying me lots of attention now!" They're probably making her think "here he goes again, he's so desperate to cling to this marriage that he thinks these silly hugs will make a difference."
I don't want to be her plan B, but I don't want to give her ammunition for her perceptions - which are wrong btw.
Well, her perceptions are her reality. I mean I get what you're saying, she thinks you didn't care in the M when you really did. But nevertheless, what you showed her in the M is what became her perceptions and her reality. You cared inside, but that doesn't really matter much when you don't show it on the outside, which is what pretty much all of us here are guilty of because we quit working on the M after years or decades and let things coast on autopilot.
IC told me that it might be a good time to have a chat about what she wants out of the separation - is it time and space, or does she want to take small steps for seeing how we connect. I am not sure about that right now because it feels like I am putting her in a position to make a decision, no matter how I phrase it. But a part of me thinks that I really need to have this conversation. I dunno.
I think a lot of DBers are scared to death of doing something "anti-DB". But there is no one thing that is going to save your M, and no one thing that will put the final nail in the coffin either. One of the tenets of DB'ing is try something new now and then and monitor the results. I don't see any harm in having that convo with her (if you want to).
I just don't know what to do. I just can't handle the hurt that my kids are going through and that I can do nothing about it. As I've said before, it is so effin' unfair for them and that they don't deserve this.
I'm sorry you're feeling down. It is a really unpleasant experience for everyone involved, no question about it. Are your kids in IC? If not then you might consider that. At this point there's no putting things back to "normal" so your task is to get you and the kids through it as smoothly and healthily as possible. Don't dwell too much on how much it [censored], concentrate instead on getting past it.
I dunno. I am tired of playing some strategy game.
Can you clarify what you mean by that? Because you should most definitely not be playing a strategy game, so if you are then some tweaking is needed.
Hope AS comes by soon and gives me some 2x4s
I hope I didn't disappoint
It's impacting me emotionally because I don't know what her intentions are - like why is she reaching out to me when she asked for a S, which I understood as her wanting time and space. So, if I am reading that wrong, I'd like a clarification.
I think you're misinterpreting her signals. I think she may be trying to keep a little bit of the old family life going for the kids and for you, to help all of you transition to post-M life. My XW did it too. And in fact 5 years later she still does it to some extent, when our girls are in town visiting she'll usually try to set something up for all of us to have lunch or dinner together, and we have bday parties together too. Personally I think it's great for the kids so I do it, it tells the kids that we're willing to set aside our differences in support of them. But if it's hurting you too much then maybe you don't do it, it's really your choice. But I don't think you should see it as her sending out recon signals, I don't think she is at all.
I keep thinking this means something but in fact it might just be her wanting to spend 'family' time.
Exactly, it doesn't mean anything. Not right now.
Detachment needs to happen hard in any case, which is where I am struggling right now.
You're barely 4 months post BD and 2 months post S. Give yourself time! Detachment is not an on-off switch, it's a rheostat that you turn up very slowly. You'll get there, just be patient.
I understand. But again, she has undergone a major shift in mindset. She is a WAS. That's a much different dynamic than dealing with an unhappy W. With an unhappy W, if she tells you that you're "not into her" then it's simple, you need to pay more attention to her and make her feel special. But when a WAS is telling you that, she's not asking you to change, she's TELLING YOU WHY IT IS OVER. Do you understand the difference? Anything you do now is chalked up by her as "too little too late". An unhappy W WANTS you to change. A WAS doesn't give a crap, and in fact when you do 180's it makes a WAS angry. "Why is he changing now when it's too late? I told him over and over again what the problems were and he did nothing, so why now when I've already made up my mind?"
WOW!!!! Just WOW!!!!! Dayummmmmm!!!
THANK YOU! That makes it crystal clear. The distinction between WAS and an unhappy W - now that is gold. Clarity has been received.
Don't oversell the hugs, they're just hugs. They're not making her think "oh wow, he's really done a 180 and is paying me lots of attention now!" They're probably making her think "here he goes again, he's so desperate to cling to this marriage that he thinks these silly hugs will make a difference."
hahahahahahahahahahhahahaha!!!! - the oversold hugs! Man, that does make me look like a pathetic fool with it being perceived as clingy.
Good one! I can stop now cuz I don't like giving them right now anyway.
I think a lot of DBers are scared to death of doing something "anti-DB". But there is no one thing that is going to save your M, and no one thing that will put the final nail in the coffin either. One of the tenets of DB'ing is try something new now and then and monitor the results. I don't see any harm in having that convo with her (if you want to).
Yeh, I am going to think on it and figure out exactly what I need to say or ask her. IC is all for it, but I also want to touch base with a DB coach - hopefully soon.
At this point there's no putting things back to "normal" so your task is to get you and the kids through it as smoothly and healthily as possible
Yeah you're so right. That has to be my focus for now with the kids.
I can cry about it later to process the hurt.
Can you clarify what you mean by that? Because you should most definitely not be playing a strategy game, so if you are then some tweaking is needed.
Yeah, point well taken. I think this whole time I have been doing some things to see how W will react to it - even subconsciously. I need to let that go and just do DB for me.
I hope I didn't disappoint
Oh never AS!! Much needed! Thank you so much.
Yup you're right. All of this is just easing me and the kids into the post MR life. I'll do what I can for the kids, but I am personally done with this 'family' time - it's fake and I can't stand it.
I think I will be seriously able to start detaching once I am out of the matrimonial home - 3 weeks. I am looking forward to the new place and getting my home gym set up. Also, seriously working on my personal health goals.
Thanks again AS.
Yup you're right. All of this is just easing me and the kids into the post MR life. I'll do what I can for the kids, but I am personally done with this 'family' time - it's fake and I can't stand it.
I think I will be seriously able to start detaching once I am out of the matrimonial home - 3 weeks. I am looking forward to the new place and getting my home gym set up. Also, seriously working on my personal health goals.
Thanks again AS.
selling the house and moving was, for me, probably the most significant step in my ability to recover. Being in that house alone every night for 2 months was pure torture, and my mood has lifted 200% since then.
I suspect it will do the same for you.
Sorry to contradict but I am glad I stayed in the house. The kids love being in their home and still call it their house vs mommy's apartment. I also know all the neighbors and have a tremendous comfort level being there.
Last night I even took a leak off the patio and I also didn't wash the dishes
J9,
I take a leak of the patio and in the Back yard all the time. It's my patio and backyard.
Sorry to contradict but I am glad I stayed in the house. The kids love being in their home and still call it their house vs mommy's apartment. I also know all the neighbors and have a tremendous comfort level being there.
Last night I even took a leak off the patio and I also didn't wash the dishes
You can also probably afford the house on your income, and/or didn't try to sell it with expectations of saving your M though either.
If I could've afforded the house on my income, I would've kept cuz kids love the place. As I had no choice cuz W didn't want to work with me financially to keep the house, I feel like I'm still stuck in the past. But soon I will be able to get past it. Three weeks and I move into my new place
Yeah, we were lucky in that regard. As a couple we were living well under our means and could afford it. I realize not everyone is in the situation however they way the conversation got started was about detaching not about who could afford it. I think it would have been harder on me and the kids if I had to move out as well.
Y'all can go talk about leaking on your own threads lol.
Yeh no easy quick path to detachment. It will only come about with GAL and focusing on yourself. It is also an attractive goal to achieve because decisions can be made from a place of strength. I'm really into that idea.
I've taken a beating from life but I refuse now to be controlled by it and stay depressed. I want to be happy, healthy and sexy.
Y'all can go talk about leaking on your own threads lol.
Yeh no easy quick path to detachment. It will only come about with GAL and focusing on yourself. It is also an attractive goal to achieve because decisions can be made from a place of strength. I'm really into that idea.
I've taken a beating from life but I refuse now to be controlled by it and stay depressed. I want to be happy, healthy and sexy.
And from what you have said, you are well on your way to that. And the W seems to be noticing that.
I am getting there, slowly.
Alright folks! Strap in while we all wait for the juicy update from Benni. I got one for y'all.
So, a situation basically forced my hand today. W came for dinner and thought I was fooling around with other women and said to me - "if you're messing around don't text me or ask me to come for dinners". I had asked her to come for dinner as a way of reciprocation - side note.
To which I told her that that wasn't the case and she didn't believe me. Anyways, we had dinner with kids and when she was leaving I told her that I was going to come over and talk to her tonight.
So, I did the anti-DB thing and laid it all out from my perspective - I don't want the S; I respect her for wanting it; I want to work on MR; I still love her and am in love with her; I am working on myself and improving things; S for me meant that she wanted time and space but I was getting mixed messages from her; etc etc. Just laid it all out - I just wanted it to be out in the open all clear for once.
Some of her responses:
"For me, this separation is permanent"
"Sorry for that week when we spent the nights together. I was worried about you going back to an empty home"
"You say you love me and want to be with me, but if you don't love yourself, then how can you love someone else"
"I know I have also gone through depression"
"I am not seeing anybody" - this is the part that was kinda effed up. I asked her point blank if she was seeing someone. First she said she wasn't going to answer that. I said, what the hell does it matter now. Then she says she's not seeing anybody - I don't believe her for a second about that right now - but I don't have evidence so I let it go.
"I never agreed to marriage counselling, but thought we could do co-parent counselling for the kids"
"I know you have the tendency to shut people out and you have shut me out many times in our MR, so I know that you will for the future"
Those are the main highlights. If I remember any more, I will post them later.
But AS - you were right. Now that it is out in the open that this is truly a WAS situation and everything was bread crumbs, I can move on and live my life and DB.
She's not in a good place emotionally and mentally, and so we'll see what happens with that - she looked pretty fragile and isn't planning on IC. But, now I know that I can just DB and not worry about what she's thinking or if I am doing things wrong.
I don't know if DB will save the MR, but it is the clearest road map for me to save myself.
So, I am basically going dark and NC, unless it's about the kids, and improving myself, GAL, detach, and DTR. I have basically nothing to lose at this point and everything to gain.
If she's ever ready to come back, we'll see where I am at. I feel so liberated and clear right now. I can focus on myself now completely.
Got a tub of ice cream and watching Batman. What she said hurts but I was kinda prepared for it mentally. This will help me detach and drop the rope over time. No more living in ambiguity. I think she's definitely seeing someone - whether casually or not. It doesn't matter now. I can't focus on that but just myself.
What kind of ice cream and which Batman?
Haha - mint chocolate chip and chocolate crunch. The Batman with the Joker. If I'm not too tired might also watch the one with Bane. Drowning my sorrows as best as I can tonight so tomorrow is better and stronger
Maika, I was also feeling better but now I'm spinning around. So you may regret it later. I like your attitude though, why worry because there's nothing more to lose?
That indeed was against the DB and pushed her more away but I definitely can understand your want to get some clarity. I also agree that she's seeing someone because that answer is just odd. I think it's most of the WAS cases where there is an AP, either real and co-operative or a fantasy/EA friend. But as the rules go, don't believe anything what they say. It's just the emotional burden against you right now but time and changes can do their thing.
The feeling of it being final. i.e. Where you are starting to believe it is over - is the true beginning of this process.
I remember taking down wedding photographs/pictures 3 months in. That was my "F**k me this is real" moment
I had to believe it was done. When you are faced with the reality of truly being alone/single - there is a different mode we operate on. We are focused to look at ourselves and only ourselves.
Do I really like my job? Do I look good naked? (need to go to gym etc..), do I see my friends enough?
If any of these answers indicate a potential area for improvement then its time to take all the time you spend thinking about your W and this messed up situation, and focus all your energy on the points above.
Once you do this, on a regular basis, that becomes your normality. When you live a life where you are 100% focused on you over a period of time - you start to feel a sense of accomplishment. Its through that feeling that you are rewarded.
You like that feeling, you become more confident, and a few months down the road, a family member will make a comment such as "you look happier recently" or "how come your in such a good mood"?
And you wont even be trying to impress anyone or change any situation - it will come across without you trying.
This is the ONLY person your W would be remotely interested in. Then when they believe that they may be losing you FOR REAL, then their interest is perked up. Then they start to question "Am I making the right decision?".
At that point we can speak again.
I used to go weeks without speaking to my W and I used to wonder if I am changing so much and we don't see each other then how will she know.
Let go of that because that shows you are still wanting things to happen for a reason.
Let nature take its course, and even if its only for an hour a week, your WAS WILL start to see the changes when she picks the kids up etc..
Over a period of time, (mine was 6 months) - there may be a chance that this new independent you is alot more of an attractive option than the husband she left.
Hey LC!
I am feeling better because I got clarity as to where her mindset is at right NOW. It was against DB, but as AS said, one conversation isn't going to be the nail in the coffin. I had prepared myself for various things from her and I talked to her in a very calm, chill, and positive way - I didn't want to be a crying mess and didn't beg and plead. I validated her feelings at every chance I got and didn't argue with her.
Some of the things that she said to me, I could've put it back in her face as well but I didn't. I just wanted to listen to her after I finished speaking. The only time I pushed her was when I asked her about if she was seeing someone.
I definitely don't believe a lot of the stuff she said, but I can see where she's coming from. DB allowed me to be a lot more put together and prepared from how I spoke and how to take in what she said.
Now it's just time. I haven't lost hope at all, but I know that DBing is going to be the best chance to save myself and possibly the MR. She's got a lot of issues she needs to deal with: huge anxiety issues (since before we got married); low self-esteem and self-worth; huge body image issues; identity issues about who she is and where her values are (she left her religion few years back and has never been able to get over it); and sexual issues.
She hasn't planned on seeing an IC, but if she doesn't, these issues won't just magically resolve by themselves or her just trying to will them away. She needs help.
She completes her intense uni program next June - that's a good timeline for me. I don't think she'll even get to a place of what she wants until much after that. Right now she's also on an emotional high from the program and I am sure that whoever she's into, is either in that program or someone from her work.
I read your thread and I'll write there in a bit. I am feeling at peace only for the fact that I can now just focus on myself and know that DBing isn't hurting my chances for a future recon.
The feeling of it being final. i.e. Where you are starting to believe it is over - is the true beginning of this process.
Thanks Benito. That's exactly where I am at right now and it is giving me some sense of liberation and peace, because now I can absolutely only focus on myself and my needs without worrying what W might think or perceive. Make genuine changes for myself.
Everything you said in your post is on point and awesome. The serious changes that I want to make will take some time on my part, so I don't expect her to notice them for a while. Also, the way our schedules work from next week, we will probably only see each other maybe once a week for a little bit.
I am relieved because I don't have to worry about texts, emails, reciprocating things right now, and having to deal with anything about the MR. The kids stuff is pretty straightforward and her and I are on the same page with it. We will have some kinks in the road, but they can be easily resolved.
I am still hurt, but I know what I saw from her actions in the past 2 months, and she was definitely still into me even if she didn't want to admit it or say it. So, I know that when she said she's done, she's in her WAS mindset and it is her reality right now. We don't know where she will be in six months or a year. I don't where I will be in that time either, but I have immense clarity now and the solid green light to focus on myself completely.
Thanks again for your words and encouragement.
Benito,
I have two questions.
After you had that F@$! me this real moment, how did you handle the finances with your spouse.
Did you take off your ring?
Did you have to drop the D papers?
I dunno if Benito's sitch is available to read, but if it comes back, I would suggest go read all of it. Very insightful.
Benito,
I have two questions.
After you had that F@$! me this real moment, how did you handle the finances with your spouse.
Did you take off your ring?
Did you have to drop the D papers?
To be honest I can not afford the property on my own.
So from that respect I had 3 options:
1. Get a better Job so that I could afford to take it on myself.
2. Let her buy me out of my share and get a smaller place of my own.
3. Realise that the mortgage Is 50/50 (so I cant be forced out), concentrate on me and let her drive the whole process and don’t worry about money, moving house until I have to.
Ultimately I did option 1 and option 3. From a completely none emotional state of mind, I looked at myself and wrote down the facts. On my own I was worth x amount. I needed more. So I applied for more jobs. While applying and going to gym after work, playing football/soccer etc.. In my spare time and just acting like I was on holiday. Not looking at my phone and just doing what ever the hell I wanted to do.
Before long, 1 month had turned into 2, 2 into 4 and so on..
You then find yourself in a stronger mindset than before and used to not checking your phone and doing all the relationship stuff that is so good to get away from when your single.
With leaving everything to the W to sort out, they have to REALLY embody each process, i.e. calling the solicitors, arranging viewings, fixing the car, etc.. And the reality of the situation starts to dawn on them. This situation is going to cause a massive change and you aren't there to help them.
When they would normally turn to you and you arent there to help.. Its another dose of reality. Pressure starts to mount.
When your paths do eventually cross again…. They see this person in front of them. (i.e. you) All of a sudden, you look a bit slimmer, that frown is now a content smile, you have stories to tell (if asked) about what weekend you went on, or movie you watched without them etc..
They want to know more.. But you don’t buckle to ask for recon and you carry on as normal.
Over time the tide starts to turn but its key you don’t see a ray of positive light and jump on it, because if its real, they will give you another ray, it doesn’t mean you need to take it.
When you don’t… There is a real possibility from their point of view that (shock horror) you might me able to be happy without them.. Now THEY start to think.. And the 'game' has changed. You start to hold a few more cards.
Benito,
Did you continue to wear your ring?
This is great information. I was worrying about the finances. My wife doesnt work, but she pays the bills and divides the money up. I was thinking about taking back the role. I dont know how important that is to DBing.
Did you have to drop the D papers?
Just jotting down some personal goals that I want to achieve in the next 10 months. I am phasing them in slowly, and have a game plan that IC is helping me with.
1. Get good sleep - 7 hours a night
2. Workout 3 times a week
3. Climb 2 times a week at least
4. Write 2-3 times a week and be consistent
5. Read books - I have a huge backlog of books sitting already
6. Get my diabetes under control - I have really crappy genes that have contributed to this, but I am working to get it under control
7. Eat better as part of my diabetes management strategy
8. Make some new friends.
All of this is just for ME. I want to add some more things to this list, but I will focus on getting this down first because these are my priorities right now.
Benito,
Did you continue to wear your ring?
This is great information. I was worrying about the finances. My wife doesnt work, but she pays the bills and divides the money up. I was thinking about taking back the role. I dont know how important that is to DBing.
Did you have to drop the D papers?
I took my ring off roughly 2 months after she left. Its 6 months now.
I did not drop anything in regards to D papers.
She is the one that wanted to leave. She can do it.
Like I said, she wanted all this.. So let her drive it. In the meantime I will live the life I always wanted to stress free.
Just jotting down some personal goals that I want to achieve in the next 10 months. I am phasing them in slowly, and have a game plan that IC is helping me with.
1. Get good sleep - 7 hours a night
2. Workout 3 times a week
3. Climb 2 times a week at least
4. Write 2-3 times a week and be consistent
5. Read books - I have a huge backlog of books sitting already
6. Get my diabetes under control - I have really crappy genes that have contributed to this, but I am working to get it under control
7. Eat better as part of my diabetes management strategy
8. Make some new friends.
All of this is just for ME. I want to add some more things to this list, but I will focus on getting this down first because these are my priorities right now.
Good.
Make sure they are things you actually want to do rather than things that sound good.
If you struggle with the list then you need to identify if it actually something you want to do or if your just being a bit lazy.
Man, I step away for a night and M brings the heat! Never again!!
W came for dinner and thought I was fooling around with other women and said to me - "if you're messing around don't text me or ask me to come for dinners". I had asked her to come for dinner as a way of reciprocation - side note.
If she's not into why would she give a $hit? Doesn't make sense.
"I am not seeing anybody" - this is the part that was kinda effed up. I asked her point blank if she was seeing someone. First she said she wasn't going to answer that. I said, what the hell does it matter now. Then she says she's not seeing anybody - I don't believe her for a second about that right now - but I don't have evidence so I let it go.
It may not be serious but she at minimum has met guys out for coffee, etc or maybe even a few dates. In some ways I think my W is doing the same thing. Nothing serious but I bet she met someone out, etc.
In the back of mind I always new that was and needed to happen for her to realize at some point the grass is not any greener.
But AS - you were right. Now that it is out in the open that this is truly a WAS situation and everything was bread crumbs, I can move on and live my life and DB.
I am glad you got clarity as painful as it might of been. Maybe she was trying to be nice but she certainly was not helping you by dragging this situation along. I think you were stuck in a loop that you couldn't let go so confronting her and having the conversation was your only option.
So, I am basically going dark and NC, unless it's about the kids, and improving myself, GAL, detach, and DTR. I have basically nothing to lose at this point and everything to gain.
Yes, you need to go back to square one and take care of yourself and not worry about her. It took me about 1.5 months to feel better and really over the last 3 weeks (so almost 3 months) to really feel better.
Just do you and things you enjoy.
I will say it is hard to GAL when you have an 8 yr old and a 6 yr old 50% of the time
Do you guys have your finances separated?
Thanks Benni. Yeh, this is the core list of things I have been meaning to do for a long time. With IC I realized why I was not being able to accomplish them and it has given me great perspective.
Things I didn't mention in that list, but there are a number of things that I am going to work with IC to improve:
1. Be more assertive and manage conflict head on and productively
2. Become more self-aware of how I am feeling and not putting my needs to prioritize someone else's needs. Always bring my needs to the table to and have a conversation about how to find a balance for both people.
3. Work on being less of a type A personality - the thinking of there are only a few correct ways to do things and other ways are crap - and people who don't do it right are not mature responsible people
4. Not be impulsive and have better emotion control. Also, learn not to intellectualize everything and let myself feel the emotions so as not to bury them to dissect later.
I also need to get over hurt and trauma from my childhood, which has contributed to my behaviours. IC is gonna be good for that.
If she's not into why would she give a $hit? Doesn't make sense
Exactly! So, that's why I don't believe everything she's saying because her actions are speaking otherwise.
It may not be serious but she at minimum has met guys out for coffee, etc or maybe even a few dates. In some ways I think my W is doing the same thing. Nothing serious but I bet she met someone out, etc.
In the back of mind I always new that was and needed to happen for her to realize at some point the grass is not any greener
Oh for sure! I definitely know of at least one coffee date she went on a couple of months back. I don't think it was the only one. Good luck with that for her basically. I can truly work on letting it go now that she has said all the other things.
I am glad you got clarity as painful as it might of been. Maybe she was trying to be nice but she certainly was not helping you by dragging this situation along. I think you were stuck in a loop that you couldn't let go so confronting her and having the conversation was your only option.
Yeh, I felt like I really had no option at this point. And after reading AS's advice, I knew that it was the right thing to do even if it was anti-DB. I have the green light now to go on and DB and live my life - I didn't feel that way two days ago. I feel a lot more calm now.
Yes, you need to go back to square one and take care of yourself and not worry about her. It took me about 1.5 months to feel better and really over the last 3 weeks (so almost 3 months) to really feel better.
Yeah. back to square one, but better informed and not an emotional mess. hehe. I am so effin' looking forward to having my place now. It will be a huge burden off my shoulders.
Do you guys have your finances separated?
Not yet. We were doing things joint because of the matrimonial home. I wasn't worried about her draining the accts or doing dumb stuff with money - and she hasn't. So, I am separating everything at the end of this month - bank accts, car insurance, phone bills, etc.
I will say it is hard to GAL when you have an 8 yr old and a 6 yr old 50% of the time
True, and that's why I am getting a home gym done. That is one GAL activity I can't compromise. I am also going to enrol kids in a climbing camp for the semester and so we can go climb together and I don't have to miss out on it when they're with me. So, keeping GAL activities fluid week by week and doing different things will keep it interesting and more fun.
Not yet. We were doing things joint because of the matrimonial home. I wasn't worried about her draining the accts or doing dumb stuff with money - and she hasn't. So, I am separating everything at the end of this month - bank accts, car insurance, phone bills, etc.
I felt this part was very tricky. I was not DBing when my W first moved out so I was kind of shooting from the hip. She wanted to move out and has her own job but was not able to afford to move out and pay 50% of the bills. Since I make more than double what she makes we divided up the bills since I control our finances and put each of us on a budget. It is by no means 50/50 but she is paying 100% of everything that is associated with her new place and cell bill.
When she moved out I asked her for our checkbook and credit cards which is gave up with no issues. Once she opened up her own checking account and had her check re-directed to be auto deposited in her new account I took her name off of our joint account.
I am not saying what I did is correct because I may have handled a few things differently looking back. IMO it is a fine line between making them feel the pain, etc but also not giving them the impression you are being vindictive etc. especially at the time I had no confirmation of their being another man.
I also know she has been stretched really thin on money, has already maxed out her credit card she opened and has asked me for additional money on 2 different occasions. She is not used to managing money since I did it all and has also commented to me that she has cancelled her alarm system for her apartment and can no longer afford to get her eyelashes done
True, and that's why I am getting a home gym done. That is one GAL activity I can't compromise. I am also going to enrol kids in a climbing camp for the semester and so we can go climb together and I don't have to miss out on it when they're with me. So, keeping GAL activities fluid week by week and doing different things will keep it interesting and more fun.
I here ya I took them to the gym with me after work last night and then went to get snow cones
. Between their soccer practices on Mon/Thurs and two games on Sat, then church on Sunday's it gets really difficult. On the weeks I don't have them I still go to their practices because if I don't I won't see them the entire week and the games and church continue. I may have to back off of something just to get a little more free time to myself.
Joseph,
She can no longer afford to get her lashes done...LOL!!!! That's just funny to me. And she is actually complaining abiut it to you as if she expects you to take care of it.
She never lets me know how bad she is struggling. She gives off this tough exterior but last week she overdrawn her checking account by $230 and does not get paid again until 9/20. She has also maxed out her CC so she sent me a text asking for money and said she also reached out to her dad.
When we did kid exchange I asked her what would prevent this from happening again, she commented that she new what needed to happen going forward. She almost started to cry, held it in and walked away, she didn't want to talk about it any more. She said it was very hard to ask me for money and she was embarrassed. That is when she made the comment about the alarm system and lashes.
I didn't rake her over the coals or put the screw to her. I got the impression she was hurting and it took everything in her power to ask me.
It just goes to show you how bad they might be hurting on the inside but would never show it to the LBS.
Yeah she's definitely hurting and they never show how bad it is to the LBS. Well, I am glad she said she has a plan to figure it out so it won't happen moving forward J. This is the reality of the separation and they have to start figuring their responsibilities out.
My W makes more money than me, but I am way more financially prudent and the planner and the budgeter. It's not like she can't figure it out, but it isn't her strong suit. So, now she has to do it all by herself. And she has major loan payments kicking in next year and we'll see how she does.
I need to find a better paying job next year by the summer - either I get a great raise where I am at or I will find something else.
Sounds like an awesome goal! I need to work on these as well and I think a lot of it has to do with confidence.
1. Be more assertive and manage conflict head on and productively
2. Become more self-aware of how I am feeling and not putting my needs to prioritize someone else's needs. Always bring my needs to the table to and have a conversation about how to find a balance for both people.
I also would like to be a little more adventurous and do some things out of the norm. I feel as though I am doing a good job with my health, working out , personal appearance, etc.
Yeah, the adventurous part has to come out at some point. I want to nail down some of my primary goals first and then go on to the adventurous piece.
Weren't you saying J that you were interested in travelling? Maybe I read it on someone else's sitch, dunno.
I definitely love travelling and would like to do some of that in the coming years. I am planning on going back to my home town where I grew up and spend time with fam early next year (I moved to N.America a while back).
With the climbing, I would really love to get to a place where I can do it outdoors and even tackle some mountains - I know it sounds crazy right now, but it would be amazing if I could get there. I love being in mountain ranges and spending time taking in how breathtaking our natural world is.
Oh! Bedroom adventures are on the list too, but not any time soon
Thanks Benni. Yeh, this is the core list of things I have been meaning to do for a long time. With IC I realized why I was not being able to accomplish them and it has given me great perspective.
Things I didn't mention in that list, but there are a number of things that I am going to work with IC to improve:
1. Be more assertive and manage conflict head on and productively
2. Become more self-aware of how I am feeling and not putting my needs to prioritize someone else's needs. Always bring my needs to the table to and have a conversation about how to find a balance for both people.
3. Work on being less of a type A personality - the thinking of there are only a few correct ways to do things and other ways are crap - and people who don't do it right are not mature responsible people
4. Not be impulsive and have better emotion control. Also, learn not to intellectualize everything and let myself feel the emotions so as not to bury them to dissect later.
I also need to get over hurt and trauma from my childhood, which has contributed to my behaviours. IC is gonna be good for that.
Geez, M are we like clones or something? This is the exact stuff I am trying to work on
I took a trip to Nashville in July to see some buddies and would like to go back. Obviously the travel is expensive and now that we are essentially paying two mortgages there is not much extra cash flow around. I thought about taking my D's camping 1 weekend when it got a little cooler and just getting out more in general.
You see I am perfectly fine being along in my house with nothing to do. I really don't need much interaction from anyone. My neighbor invited me over last Sat night to watch some football, drinking, etc. and I declined him. So getting out and socializing or doing activities would be different for me. It all costs money though.
I like the idea of hiking that sounds cool and you can do that free of charge especially if your in a scenic part of the country!
LOL.....bedroom adventures. I guess you need to make sure you look good naked first
. The more confident you get the more you will own your castle!!
Thanks Benni. Yeh, this is the core list of things I have been meaning to do for a long time. With IC I realized why I was not being able to accomplish them and it has given me great perspective.
Things I didn't mention in that list, but there are a number of things that I am going to work with IC to improve:
1. Be more assertive and manage conflict head on and productively
2. Become more self-aware of how I am feeling and not putting my needs to prioritize someone else's needs. Always bring my needs to the table to and have a conversation about how to find a balance for both people.
3. Work on being less of a type A personality - the thinking of there are only a few correct ways to do things and other ways are crap - and people who don't do it right are not mature responsible people
4. Not be impulsive and have better emotion control. Also, learn not to intellectualize everything and let myself feel the emotions so as not to bury them to dissect later.
I also need to get over hurt and trauma from my childhood, which has contributed to my behaviours. IC is gonna be good for that.
Geez, M are we like clones or something? This is the exact stuff I am trying to work on
HA HA! I also thought that when you mentioned your GAL stuff especially getting back to writing. Well, looks like we probably fit the profile of a stereotypical LBS.
I took a trip to Nashville in July to see some buddies and would like to go back. Obviously the travel is expensive and now that we are essentially paying two mortgages there is not much extra cash flow around. I thought about taking my D's camping 1 weekend when it got a little cooler and just getting out more in general.
You see I am perfectly fine being along in my house with nothing to do. I really don't need much interaction from anyone. My neighbor invited me over last Sat night to watch some football, drinking, etc. and I declined him. So getting out and socializing or doing activities would be different for me. It all costs money though.
I like the idea of hiking that sounds cool and you can do that free of charge especially if your in a scenic part of the country!
LOL.....bedroom adventures. I guess you need to make sure you look good naked first
. The more confident you get the more you will own your castle!!
Yehh the financial aspect is definitely something that makes this difficult. But, gotta find ways to go out and do that once a year or when finances permit.
re: bedroom adventures - oh for sure! I can't wait to get my abs back in the next year. I have some weight to lose, but not too much. So, I know that with my improved diet I will be able to kill two birds with one stone - get my diabetes under control and lose weight. Working out will take care of the abs - already got some definition coming back just from losing some weight. Can't wait to rock the new bod next summer.
I took a trip to Nashville in July to see some buddies and would like to go back. Obviously the travel is expensive and now that we are essentially paying two mortgages there is not much extra cash flow around. I thought about taking my D's camping 1 weekend when it got a little cooler and just getting out more in general.
You see I am perfectly fine being along in my house with nothing to do. I really don't need much interaction from anyone. My neighbor invited me over last Sat night to watch some football, drinking, etc. and I declined him. So getting out and socializing or doing activities would be different for me. It all costs money though.
I like the idea of hiking that sounds cool and you can do that free of charge especially if your in a scenic part of the country!
LOL.....bedroom adventures. I guess you need to make sure you look good naked first
. The more confident you get the more you will own your castle!!
Yehh the financial aspect is definitely something that makes this difficult. But, gotta find ways to go out and do that once a year or when finances permit.
re: bedroom adventures - oh for sure! I can't wait to get my abs back in the next year. I have some weight to lose, but not too much. So, I know that with my improved diet I will be able to kill two birds with one stone - get my diabetes under control and lose weight. Working out will take care of the abs - already got some definition coming back just from losing some weight. Can't wait to rock the new bod next summer.
One thing I will say, re: bedroom adventures. You don't have to look good naked, you just have to look /confident/ naked.
Your sex appeal is going to be determined much more by how you /act/ and not how you /look/
I took a trip to Nashville in July to see some buddies and would like to go back. Obviously the travel is expensive and now that we are essentially paying two mortgages there is not much extra cash flow around. I thought about taking my D's camping 1 weekend when it got a little cooler and just getting out more in general.
You see I am perfectly fine being along in my house with nothing to do. I really don't need much interaction from anyone. My neighbor invited me over last Sat night to watch some football, drinking, etc. and I declined him. So getting out and socializing or doing activities would be different for me. It all costs money though.
I like the idea of hiking that sounds cool and you can do that free of charge especially if your in a scenic part of the country!
LOL.....bedroom adventures. I guess you need to make sure you look good naked first
. The more confident you get the more you will own your castle!!
Yehh the financial aspect is definitely something that makes this difficult. But, gotta find ways to go out and do that once a year or when finances permit.
re: bedroom adventures - oh for sure! I can't wait to get my abs back in the next year. I have some weight to lose, but not too much. So, I know that with my improved diet I will be able to kill two birds with one stone - get my diabetes under control and lose weight. Working out will take care of the abs - already got some definition coming back just from losing some weight. Can't wait to rock the new bod next summer.
One thing I will say, re: bedroom adventures. You don't have to look good naked, you just have to look /confident/ naked.
Your sex appeal is going to be determined much more by how you /act/ and not how you /look/
For sure - self confidence is a huge part of it. No doubt.
Forgot to mention, I am getting the big V next month. W and I weren't planning on having any more kids and I definitely don't want more kids, so time to wrap it up. Been wanting to do it for a long time, but I just had my consult last week and booked the appointment for next month.
Good on you.
I am the same way. In fact I had a consult scheduled, but cancelled it after BD, so I could focus on other things. I need to get it scheduled again.
I am trying really hard not to focus on my physical needs, because all it does is make me think of W focusing on hers, and that makes me want to vomit.
I get that. You'll have to start focusing on your physical needs without attaching the same thoughts to your W. I know it's a process.
Yeah, I just had a wave of thought about W going out on dates and sleeping around, and it brought up sadness and anger, but I let myself feel it. Started reframing my thoughts to my goals and what I want - which helped ease out the emotions.
I know I am going to be feeling like this for a while, but I am not letting my emotions go without acknowledging how I am feeling and how to cope with them productively. This is part of emotional management and equilibrium that I want to reach.
I hope your IC is coming up soon because these are things they can help with.
So, I did the anti-DB thing and laid it all out from my perspective - I don't want the S; I respect her for wanting it; I want to work on MR; I still love her and am in love with her; I am working on myself and improving things; S for me meant that she wanted time and space but I was getting mixed messages from her; etc etc. Just laid it all out - I just wanted it to be out in the open all clear for once.
Some of her responses:
"For me, this separation is permanent"
M, so sorry it didn't go the way you wanted it to. I think nearly all of us have that point after BD where we are thinking "maybe she doesn't want this, and is just waiting for me to make a move towards her so she can say so." Even though we have people telling us here every day that she's a WAS and is DONE for now, we still have those doubts. And sometimes we have to get it out in the open before we well and truly believe it. So it wasn't what you wanted to hear, but now you know and now you have clarity.
But AS - you were right. Now that it is out in the open that this is truly a WAS situation and everything was bread crumbs, I can move on and live my life and DB.
Believe me it gives me little solace being right about that! But hopefully you'll keep in mind something else I always say here that few people believe- that's how she feels right NOW. That can and will change. I'm not saying it'll definitely lead to recon, but it might. She WILL feel differently about you down the road. But you know her feelings for now and they won't change anytime soon, so adjust your approach accordingly.
I don't know if DB will save the MR, but it is the clearest road map for me to save myself.
So, I am basically going dark and NC, unless it's about the kids, and improving myself, GAL, detach, and DTR. I have basically nothing to lose at this point and everything to gain.
Well said! I wholeheartedly agree.
If she's ever ready to come back, we'll see where I am at. I feel so liberated and clear right now. I can focus on myself now completely.
Good! No need to give up or lose hope, but you DO need to take a long-term view instead of short term.
I get that. You'll have to start focusing on your physical needs without attaching the same thoughts to your W. I know it's a process.
Yeah, I just had a wave of thought about W going out on dates and sleeping around, and it brought up sadness and anger, but I let myself feel it. Started reframing my thoughts to my goals and what I want - which helped ease out the emotions.
I know I am going to be feeling like this for a while, but I am not letting my emotions go without acknowledging how I am feeling and how to cope with them productively. This is part of emotional management and equilibrium that I want to reach.
I hope your IC is coming up soon because these are things they can help with.
Saturday. I am really looking forward to it.
Last night I even took a leak off the patio and I also didn't wash the dishes
I take a leak of the patio and in the Back yard all the time. It's my patio and backyard.
Hahaha! That's the attitude. Our W's left us, we can pity ourselves or we can say "to hell with it, I'm going to make the most of it." At first I was so lonely in that big empty bed. Now I love stretching out and rolling around all night without worrying about hitting someone. The covers are ALL MINE too. I get in the shower and suddenly realize I need to pee, well screw it, it's my house and my shower, I'll pee in the shower! All the drains go to the same place anyway, LOL! My W hated it when I worked on projects on the dining table. Now? It's a permanent workstation, I eat in the living room while watching movies on the flat screen with the surround sound blasting (she hated that!) Get all the girly stuff out of your house and make it one big man cave. My formal dining room is my son's video game lair. One of the bedrooms is now my studio and display area for my toy collection (well, it's not quite finished but is underway). My W loved green and painted our whole bedroom in 3 different shades. Now it's two shades of soothing grey. Anyway you get the point. None of us wanted our W's to leave. But they did. So now it's time to embrace our hairy-chested manly man-ness, so get to it
Last night I even took a leak off the patio and I also didn't wash the dishes
I take a leak of the patio and in the Back yard all the time. It's my patio and backyard.
Hahaha! That's the attitude. Our W's left us, we can pity ourselves or we can say "to hell with it, I'm going to make the most of it." At first I was so lonely in that big empty bed. Now I love stretching out and rolling around all night without worrying about hitting someone. The covers are ALL MINE too. I get in the shower and suddenly realize I need to pee, well screw it, it's my house and my shower, I'll pee in the shower! All the drains go to the same place anyway, LOL! My W hated it when I worked on projects on the dining table. Now? It's a permanent workstation, I eat in the living room while watching movies on the flat screen with the surround sound blasting (she hated that!) Get all the girly stuff out of your house and make it one big man cave. My formal dining room is my son's video game lair. One of the bedrooms is now my studio and display area for my toy collection (well, it's not quite finished but is underway). My W loved green and painted our whole bedroom in 3 different shades. Now it's two shades of soothing grey. Anyway you get the point. None of us wanted our W's to leave. But they did. So now it's time to embrace our hairy-chested manly man-ness, so get to it
I can smoke inside (although really I shouldn't and should just quit but w/e)
I can blog from the bed with my chromebook
I can play PS4 from my bed.
I can kick it down to 64 degrees.
I can cook spicey food.
I can walk around the house completely nude (obv not when the kids are there though)
I can hang 'Be the lighthouse' in a place I can see it often.
So many things that we can do now.
M, so sorry it didn't go the way you wanted it to. I think nearly all of us have that point after BD where we are thinking "maybe she doesn't want this, and is just waiting for me to make a move towards her so she can say so." Even though we have people telling us here every day that she's a WAS and is DONE for now, we still have those doubts. And sometimes we have to get it out in the open before we well and truly believe it. So it wasn't what you wanted to hear, but now you know and now you have clarity.
I guess some part of me was expecting that she wasn't throwing bread crumbs and that maybe she was changing her tune. I knew she was a WAS but with all the mixed signals I was just too confused. I am really glad that I had this convo with her because now I know for sure and I am not second guessing myself or what she's doing. I can just move on and try and live a DB life. I had a very hard time living in ambiguity.
Believe me it gives me little solace being right about that! But hopefully you'll keep in mind something else I always say here that few people believe- that's how she feels right NOW. That can and will change. I'm not saying it'll definitely lead to recon, but it might. She WILL feel differently about you down the road. But you know her feelings for now and they won't change anytime soon, so adjust your approach accordingly.
In some ways I am glad you are right because it really confirms the entire DB philosophy and everything I have read here. It really dispels the myth that somehow your WAS is different than the rest and you don't really have to put DB into practice. I totally understand your comment about this is how she's feeling right NOW. She was so much more touchy feely and physically intimate a month ago, and then an ice cold princess for a few weeks, and now has warmed up, but not changed a bit about the separation business. So, I know she's prone to change and she's not really had a chance to live the separation life because we've seen too much of each other and not lived our lives separately. Now that is going to be in motion and I am out of her equation, so we'll see what happens with that. With the kids schedule from next week, I could easily go months without seeing her in person - I will see if that's how it turns out.
Good! No need to give up or lose hope, but you DO need to take a long-term view instead of short term.
I am not giving up hope just yet, but taking in the gift of time. I realistically don't think anything will move for her mentally or emotionally until next June, when the chapter of her uni life closes. I hope to come to a good place by then and in a position of strength to make choices that I want.
Thanks again AS!
In some ways I am glad you are right because it really confirms the entire DB philosophy and everything I have read here. It really dispels the myth that somehow your WAS is different than the rest and you don't really have to put DB into practice.
THIS!
Even though people tell you different, you always think you know best. i.e. that your the special case.
Not true.
We are all unique of course, but unbelievably similar in more ways than people like to admit.
One of your last lines says "Im not giving up yet"
Giving up - suggests your trying and nothing is working.
If your expecting to affect her (i.e. get a positive reaction from her) because of your changes - then your barking up the wrong tree.
This is a life change - hopefully at some point in the future she might want to join you on that journey. If not then so be it.
Sounds really cold and harsh but its the only way.
They need to come back to you under their own steam and when they feel right. months or maybe years or maybe never at all.
When you first met she liked you for you... same thing needs to happen here - but the frightening thing is you CANNOT control that.
A long term relationship just turns up into role playing machines and we lose sight of what brought us together in the first place.
Yes you're right Benni about the 'giving up' language. I think I wrote that as a honest reflection of where I am at.
I think the state of mind that you are describing comes with practicing detachment and getting there in time. And I need to take that journey now that I am basically back at square one.
The nuanced discussion around control and also what you had previously written about the need for validation are really important points in this process of detachment.
I am now going into DB with both feet firmly planted in because I know it is what I need to heal myself. I want to be honest with myself and everyone here where I am at so that it allows me to have failures and successes for myself. I know I can get gung-ho about being the bawss and super strong and all that, and I do feel that at times, but I still have times when I am not doing so great.
So, I want to be true to the process and give myself time and space to make those life changes that will last long term.
Need some advice.
So, W and I are starting a kids schedule next week, where basically we won't have any contact with each other - which is good for me for time and space and detachment.
W suggested that we do Sunday dinners together with the kids because this would be a good thing for them. I am not sure about this. I'd rather not have much contact for a while so that I can just focus on myself and detach. I dunno if these weekly dinners will be a good thing. But, if it seems that it would be good for kids, then I can surely set aside my feelings and just do it.
I dunno. If it's a good idea for the kids, maybe do dinners every two weeks? I feel like that would work better for me to have a breather.
Maybe do dinners every two weeks? I feel like that would work better for me to have a breather.
Do you see the kids in addition to this once every 2 weeks sunday dinner?
If so do this.
The way the schedule is going to be for the kids is this 2-2-5-5 system. One parent has them for 2 days, then next 2 days the other parent, and then five days, and keep alternating. this way kids don't go without seeing each parent for a full calendar week. Also allows both of us to get alternate weekends off.
So, both of us are seeing kids regularly, but just not each other. So, instead of every week, I'd like to propose every 2 weeks. Or should I do weekly?
W suggested that we do Sunday dinners together with the kids because this would be a good thing for them. I am not sure about this. I'd rather not have much contact for a while so that I can just focus on myself and detach. I dunno if these weekly dinners will be a good thing. But, if it seems that it would be good for kids, then I can surely set aside my feelings and just do it.
My DB coach told me to do activities together once per week as a family. We have soccer games on Saturday's so that is what we do. They told me it was only for the kids.
If you cant do dinners, maybe meet up at a park or something. I think it also depends on how your kids are handling it and your overall interactions with your W. My W and I are always cordial around each other and sit next to each other at games so they do see us interacting in a positive way.
If you feel compelled do it for the kids but don't go into with any expectations from your W. Maybe sitting down together at the family dinner table is too uncomfortable for you right now. Maybe you just need to step back for a while and gain control over your own emotions.
Either way I think it is good just remember to put your own needs first and only do what you can handle.
I'd rather not have much contact for a while so that I can just focus on myself and detach.
Maika,
I understand the issue you're facing. I don't have an answer for you, but for what it's worth, I can relay my own experience.
After my wife and I separated, I started feeling a lot better. That was totally unexpected. I was expecting to miss my wife, but with her gone, I no longer had to walk on egg shells; I was able to get things done and make decisions without the fear of her anger and wrath. I soon realized how much of a doormat I'd become and how difficult my wife could be at times. The downside of that is my anger started building. And, I no longer put up with my wife's shenanigans. If she did anything that I felt was disrespectful, I'd quickly let her know. For me, that was very important; I wanted to show her that she couldn't use her anger to control me. Occasionally, things could be very tense.
And that's the issue; I didn't want to expose my sons to that kind of tense environment. I'd attend school and sporting events where my wife was present, but I generally stayed away from her because she's often start pushing my buttons as soon as an opportunity would arise. For better or worse, I never let her get away with that nonsense regardless of the venue (i.e. I didn't care if it was in public).
If you and your wife can remain cordial when the children are around, then weekly or biweekly dinners may work well, but if you can't keep things cordial, then avoidance of those situations is probably better.
I want to be honest with myself and everyone here where I am at so that it allows me to have failures and successes for myself. I know I can get gung-ho about being the bawss and super strong and all that, and I do feel that at times, but I still have times when I am not doing so great.
Once again.. THIS!
You need to hurt, have bad days, feel low, cry, feel rubbish.
The gung ho - "oh im ok I feel super strong" - is all well and good for a sort of 'false' pick me up if you will.. But for me personally,I think trying to avoid the pain or putting on a false (for yourself) isnt productive at all.
Its a horrible experience pal.
I cried, considered not being here anymore, moving abroad, etc. etc.. it was absolutely horrible.. BUT.... things move in phases and things WILL pass, and if it doesn't pass, you will be that used to it by then it will not affect you as much.
Its not going to be pleasant.... but you will come out the other end, just don't keep expecting things to change because you have been doing it for 6 months etc.. you are NOT doing it to impress anyone.
You are alone on a desert island and you need to learn to fend for yourself in everyday possible.
TI'd like to propose every 2 weeks. Or should I do weekly?
There is no right and wrong answer pal.
Part of this journey is making you into a confident independent decision making individual.
What do you feel is best? - whatever that is go for it.
Trust your gut and believe in yourself
M......I agree with Benito there is no right or wrong answer it is what you feel is right in your heart. I didn't invite my W to my B-Day party back in July because I didn't enjoy being around her and it would have hurt me too much. It was a hard decision to make but I made it for myself and it was the right choice.
For the record I cried my eyes out as well every morning to my mom and really anyone else that would listen. I remember having to sit my team down at work to tell them because they knew something was wrong with me, it was impacting my work. I sat there with 6 of them looking at me in complete silence because I couldn't get the words out without crying.
I would encourage you to feel the pain..........you have to let it go, all of it.
Thanks J, Benni, and doodler for your perspectives.
I will reflect on it and see how I truly feel about it. Yes, I am letting the pain come to the surface and processing my emotions so that I don't bury them. It's a new thing for me and a bit unsettling, but I am allowing myself to feel human.
I am going to let it all go slowly and I have a great IC who has my back too. But, everyone on this board has been priceless. Couldn't have done it without y'all.
It's a rough process, I remember laying at wake at night when I had my kids wondering who is boinking her, etc.
The pain came in waves, good days and bad, then gradually you start to have more good days that string together.
If your someone who likes to have control/order it probably makes the sitch more difficult. You have to learn to let go and not control it. You will only make yourself crazy.
Get your mind to a higher level of thinking/being that is not driven by your ego.
It's interesting the various ways the pain comes.
Yesterday, I had two major moments where waves of thoughts came. The first one was about her living her single life and going on dates and sleeping with other men, and those were painful thoughts.
Much later in the day, outta nowhere, all these thoughts came like a torrent - all of them about how much she would tell me about how I take such good care of her in sickness and in good health, and I am so attentive and caring and patient with her.
And those thoughts also brought pain, but it was a different kind of pain.
I am trying to be a lot more self-aware and let these thoughts come, process them, and let them pass. I don't try to avoid them because they are uncomfortable - which was my MO in the past.
Yeah, I am working to get my mind to that higher level of thinking and being - and yes, I am a bit of a control freak so I definitely know that that is something I have to consciously work on.
Yeah, I am working to get my mind to that higher level of thinking and being - and yes, I am a bit of a control freak so I definitely know that that is something I have to consciously work on.
I could tell in how you were attacking your sitch
Yesterday, I had two major moments where waves of thoughts came. The first one was about her living her single life and going on dates and sleeping with other men, and those were painful thoughts.
Yes they are.....get to a higher level of thinking. These thoughts are driven by our male EGO. As males we focus on the physical aspect.
I am trying to be a lot more self-aware and let these thoughts come, process them, and let them pass. I don't try to avoid them because they are uncomfortable - which was my MO in the past.
Good...let the feelings in you have to.
Much later in the day, outta nowhere, all these thoughts came like a torrent - all of them about how much she would tell me about how I take such good care of her in sickness and in good health, and I am so attentive and caring and patient with her.
And those thoughts also brought pain, but it was a different kind of pain.
My W old me I was her rock and she could never imagine her life without me and the kids because that is all she has. Those thoughts used to make me sad not angry. Your right it is different than thinking about someone boinking her. That would get me really pissed off.
Trust me it is all part of the process
I am really glad that I had this convo with her because now I know for sure and I am not second guessing myself or what she's doing. I can just move on and try and live a DB life. I had a very hard time living in ambiguity.
Yes, I think most of us need that clarity and almost everyone does end up doing at least one big temperature check like that just to be sure. I'm glad you are taking it to heart though, because some people will do what you did and then a week later do it again, and a week later again.... and they never go on to work on themselves and grow because they are living in constant denial.
It really dispels the myth that somehow your WAS is different than the rest and you don't really have to put DB into practice.
Exactly. It's hard for all of us to believe that this person that was so in love with us not too long ago is suddenly NOT in love with us AT ALL. But that's our new reality, we're dealing with a different person than who we were married to. And the people of these forums know better than anyone who that interloper is and how they think and feel.
W suggested that we do Sunday dinners together with the kids because this would be a good thing for them. I am not sure about this. I'd rather not have much contact for a while so that I can just focus on myself and detach. I dunno if these weekly dinners will be a good thing. But, if it seems that it would be good for kids, then I can surely set aside my feelings and just do it.
Go ahead and do one and see how it goes. If it upsets you then you can always tell your W that you're just not ready for that yet and that you want to postpone it until you're feeling more up to it. Or suggest every-other-week like you said. I think you know not to have any expectations!
Thanks everyone!
So, had an awesome awesome weekend with the kids. We went to a cultural celebration yesterday afternoon and it was so much fun. Today, we went out climbing and kids couldn't get enough of it. We were there for almost three hours and they didn't want to leave. They completed some rock wall routes and a starter bouldering route - man, they were tenacious: they attacked each route over and over again until they got it. It was unbelievably inspiring. We're doing this every weekend now.
Dropped them off at W's after and stayed for dinner. I wasn't sure about it, but because she had invited me over for it previously, I just went. We had a couple of things to discuss, but nothing that couldn't be done over text. I was also hella tired from climbing and didn't particularly feel like sticking around. I was pleasant and chill during dinner and it's easy because kids were talking their heads off about climbing. But, I still wasn't super comfortable being there doing this, but I put on a good show. I don't think I will do it next week and the week after that she's out of town so we won't be able to do it any ways.
Now with the schedule set for the kids, I basically won't see her outside of a kids activity on the weekend. So, I can go weeks now without spending any serious time with her - I am glad about this because I need the space and time to figure my $hit out and detach. I am also moving soon so I need to get ready for that and that will be hectic.
There seems to be a sense of finality right now, which oddly seems to feel kinda good. Like I can actually move on now.
That is aweomse dude! My D's love climbing as well. My buddy introduced me to it a couple of months ago and he has a membership at a local climbing gym. Some of those guys are incredible with how they almost hang upside down.
Your a big man for being able to do dinner. I think it shows your confidence that you were able to get through it with no emtions. Good for you! Sounds like you didnt linger around either which is another positive step! I take the same approach it's like what do we have to talk about???
I agree this is the space that you will need to work on detaching. I don't know how people do it who are in an in house separation. Let them go, let them be free and see what they do with it. I really do believe that is the only way.
You will get there! Remeber we are all here for you! No emotions....ZEN like.
Thanks man! Yeh, the climbing is just incredible in terms of building your upper body and core. I see some of men and women doing bouldering and they're not super cut, but they have immense upper body strength. You probably couldn't tell that by looking at them. I really like the idea of getting that type of strength. Gym stuff is good for definition and getting lean, but I want to get really strong again. Climbing is the way to go for that, and bouldering is just incredible fun - can make you feel humble pretty fast.
Yeh, I was almost going to bail on dinner but decided to just go through with it cuz it was planned. Previously whenever I've had dinner at her place, I would put kids to bed and it has been just horrendous for them and me - them asking me to stay and having an emotional breakdown. I just wanted to avoid that too. So, pretty much after dinner, I left and told W that business stuff can be done over text and it's not major.
Now, on to detachment station and zen country.
You sound like you are DBing at it's best! Keep it up!
Thanks leahsue. If you go back and read my whole sitch, you'll see I have floundered quite a bit with DB because W was giving a lot of mixed signals. But, now I am free and clear and can DB and focus on my life.
I follow your sitch but haven't commented there because I don't think I have anything useful to offer yet. But, I will if I can throw in my 2 cents at some point. Thanks for commenting here.
Just some journalling!
Ahhh! I am feeling really restless today for some reason. Still feel stuck. I am moving to my new place in 2 weeks, which is something I am looking forward to.
Part of the restlessness is coming from me wanting to leap through all the uncomfortable bits right now and just get to a place of zen. I know I need to go through this phase to reach detachment and peace, but I am just feeling restless today.
I am also reading here a lot and I need to kinda chill out and limit that for a while. I'll probably be here every day, but I might limit my time only for an hour or so.
W bombarded me with texts last night - all business stuff so no surprises there. I didn't get back to her until morning. Most of this stuff will go away in two weeks as I will have moved out.
Just some journalling!
Ahhh! I am feeling really restless today for some reason. Still feel stuck. I am moving to my new place in 2 weeks, which is something I am looking forward to.
Part of the restlessness is coming from me wanting to leap through all the uncomfortable bits right now and just get to a place of zen. I know I need to go through this phase to reach detachment and peace, but I am just feeling restless today.
I am also reading here a lot and I need to kinda chill out and limit that for a while. I'll probably be here every day, but I might limit my time only for an hour or so.
W bombarded me with texts last night - all business stuff so no surprises there. I didn't get back to her until morning. Most of this stuff will go away in two weeks as I will have moved out.
M,
For me being here is both a blessing and a curse. It allows me to vent and seek advice, but at the same time, being here is also a constant reminder of what went wrong. So that is why I have tried to be here, but not live here lately.
For sure! I just want the next two weeks to be done with so that I can move on to the next chapter of life. W has been in her new place for over 2 months and has been ahead of the curve all along. I'd just like to get that fresh start now that my situation is pretty clear.
I am going climbing tonight to clear my head, which will help. I just have to ride out these two weeks. Feel like they'll take forever.
This place can be a blessing and a curse yes, but I wouldn't have made it here without it - and I am not that far in my DBing yet, but it gives me strength.
Sometimes I wish I could do IC almost every other day.
For sure! I just want the next two weeks to be done with so that I can move on to the next chapter of life. W has been in her new place for over 2 months and has been ahead of the curve all along. I'd just like to get that fresh start now that my situation is pretty clear.
I am going climbing tonight to clear my head, which will help. I just have to ride out these two weeks. Feel like they'll take forever.
This place can be a blessing and a curse yes, but I wouldn't have made it here without it - and I am not that far in my DBing yet, but it gives me strength.
Sometimes I wish I could do IC almost every other day.
Yeah, me too. I forgot to mention my IC.. I will post it in mine
Is the hardest thing to do, to go dark and not do anything. But there is so much hurt while going dark you actually reflecting on everything that happen and then you start questioning can you even save your marriage. For me I been going dark going on 5 weeks since going dark not texting W not calling just focusing on me and kids.
And honestly meeting new friends helps alot with no attachment i make it clear it was a 10yr marriage, and i meet new friends that i met for drinks or movie this weekend W notice me dress since the BD W wasn't angry she was soft spoken W ask oh you must have a new girlfriend I kept focus on kids i didn't answer W finally said I love you so much I still love you I point blank ask are you with her she said Yes we talking i said Ok there is nothing else to talk about i hope you find your happiness I could see W was waiting for me to say I love you but I didn't. I honestly was so hurt i want to cry but i stood my ground. W when on and on before i said ok bye i just looked at W and said remember everything in this world could be fix we are human who make mistakes just dont let pride get in the way. W shook head like she understand.
Am hoping this was the right answer am hoping it didn't show her i want my marriage as much i would love to have my wife back and marriage i know this is not going be a easy process or over night. But am seeing W getting jealous. Am hoping this is a good sign for me.
Thanks Marina for your kind words. I just quickly read some of your sitch and will go back and read properly.
I am basically restarting DB and started going dark/NC mid last week. I can't do complete NC because we have 2 kids and we are both still involved in their lives. I am trying to do as much NC as possible - I know that I need it for my own sanity. I am hoping to get to a place of peace and detachment in the next 12 months.
Maika,
We also have 3 beautiful kids we adopted W goes weeks with NC am not sure how W does it but W has done it, I use to force kids on her and realize ut would make her angry. Unfortunately my WAW also detach from kids. as you would read my story is a crazy situation even the lawyer is at lost. But I feel safe when rhey with me when they do go with W I notice they come back exhausted. Is hard going dark because our mind start thinking of all the horrible things our W done but also makes us reflect on us. When I get ask how are you I answer a day at a time. Because honestly that's all we can do.
So I had my second session with a DB Coach and it went really great. I am really happy with my DB Coach and I just feel like they give me such a boost of energy and confidence, and a game plan.
My main goals until the end of the calendar year are:
Have friendly and positive encounters with W.
Not shut her out completely
I need to explain this one. One of the things that W said to me when I had the temp check with her last week was that she was expecting me to shut her out completely. This has been the way I have operated my whole life - if someone violates my trust or betrays me, I cut them out of my life. I developed this mechanism for self-preservation and emotional protection. W knows this very well. So, DB coach suggested that instead of having a black/white mindset about this, try and reciprocate and share things about my life that I am comfortable with - and do it slowly. She said that this is a great 180 that I can do in a small way. In tandem, I need to view these as simple friendly encounters and not have any expectations that this is working on the MR. In fact, it is not working on the MR directly, but creating space to do the 180.
Start modeling acceptance of other perspectives and ways of doing things
I can do this with my kids. This is an area that I seriously need to grow for myself so that I can be a better parent towards my kids. I have this type A personality and that things are done in a specific way and other ways of doing them are not doing them properly. I need to be able to relax and open up and start seeing that people have different styles and it is not an indication of them not caring, or being irresponsible. DB Coach said that if I can model this for my kids, W will see that and understand the deep changes that I want to make for myself.
So the focus is still on myself because all of the above things are in line with me wanting to improve who I am and how I want to be as a person and father.
DB Coach said that striking that balance between doing the above things and maintaining my own emotional/mental protection is something that will have to be attained. And she said that the only way I can get there is if I practice and not just talk or think about it. So, I am going to put all of this into action.
I feel so much more relieved and better and positive. I want to do hand stands lol. I can see the great person I want to become and it's getting me so excited.
Today has been a good day! Love it so far!
So, DB coach suggested that instead of having a black/white mindset about this, try and reciprocate and share things about my life that I am comfortable with - and do it slowly. She said that this is a great 180 that I can do in a small way.
That's cool and I definitely it is something you can do over time. Just be prepared to not get anything in return from your W. It's hard to make small talk and engage about your life if you are talking to a brick wall. I have found that some days my W is open to being more talkative and other days she is not.
For example, I asked her last night how school was. She looked at me, said fine and then said she was in off campus training today. Then turned her head and looked the other way. Not very inviting for additional dialogue. I was like whatever, walked away and started playing soccer with my oldest D.
This is an area that I seriously need to grow for myself so that I can be a better parent towards my kids. I have this type A personality and that things are done in a specific way and other ways of doing them are not doing them properly.
Cool, good for you. I like this one and I think you have mentioned this before about your parenting skills compared to your wife's. You may not say anything verbally but no-verbally maybe she is picking up a vibe.
DB Coach said that striking that balance between doing the above things and maintaining my own emotional/mental protection is something that will have to be attained. And she said that the only way I can get there is if I practice and not just talk or think about it.
I found that my W is more friendly via text message/email than she is in person some times. Maybe you test the waters by giving a little more when she text's you/email a joke, etc to let her know you are not shutting her out completely. That way you could continue working on detaching since you don't see her during the week.
That's cool and I definitely it is something you can do over time. Just be prepared to not get anything in return from your W. It's hard to make small talk and engage about your life if you are talking to a brick wall. I have found that some days my W is open to being more talkative and other days she is not.
Yeh, about 90% of the time she's not a brick wall. So, it's not hard to make small talk. I also try to joke around a lot to defuse the tension and she is cool with that. I think that most of the time when she's a brick wall or hard-nosed is when I am on edge, and it puts her on edge. She also gets anxious when she's going to see me because she doesn't know what mood I'll be in. I am trying to be consistent with being chill and positive and so over time it will allow her to just drop her edge too as she's seeing I am not all over the place.
Cool, good for you. I like this one and I think you have mentioned this before about your parenting skills compared to your wife's. You may not say anything verbally but no-verbally maybe she is picking up a vibe
Haha yeh! This is going to take some time for real lasting change because I have to do some serious internal work to make it natural over time. But, while I am doing this deep internal work, I am making sure that my interactions with my kids are more relaxed and that I am not being controlling or micromanaging.
I found that my W is more friendly via text message/email than she is in person some times. Maybe you test the waters by giving a little more when she text's you/email a joke, etc to let her know you are not shutting her out completely. That way you could continue working on detaching since you don't see her during the week.
I have found that W mirrors how I am interacting with her in texts. In-person she starts off with being standoffish and then warms up as the interaction progresses because her anxiety levels are down seeing that I am just being chill. I sent her some dumb text this morning about work and she wrote back and it was more relaxed. We went back and forth and she shared something important from her work, which was great because she hasn't done that in a while. The only reason she did this is because I wrote her something that was not generic.
I feel good about this because now I am not trying to read into what does this mean - whether its texts or seeing her in-person. So I can do some of this slowly over time and because I don't seen her for the entire week, it gives me the time and space to detach and GAL and do my thang
I have found that W mirrors how I am interacting with her in texts. In-person she starts off with being standoffish and then warms up as the interaction progresses because her anxiety levels are down seeing that I am just being chill. I sent her some dumb text this morning about work and she wrote back and it was more relaxed. We went back and forth and she shared something important from her work, which was great because she hasn't done that in a while. The only reason she did this is because I wrote her something that was not generic.
I wish my W would open up some but she really has her guard up. The crazy thing is that I don't say a word about us or anything. She doesn't give an inch and I have never done anything to her. When I tried to engage in more conversation with her via text or email she would be the first one to cut off the conversation. I didn't like the way it made me feel so I just stopped.
At minimum it sounds like your W is still very friendly and open to this type of dialogue which is good in my opinion as long as you don't read into it