Link to old:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2757421&page=10Well, here we go with Part 5
Got up and hit the gym this am had a great workout. Got plans to go out with a buddy tonight work and I have a kid free weekend! I will probably be watching a lot of football which is something I enjoy. I also like to place wagers on the games so I don't know if that counts as GAL or not but it is a lot of fun for me!!
On a side note I need a little advice. I have been taking my D's to church every Sunday since this has went down with my wife. It has been part of GAL and 180's since I really didn't attend church before. Anyway my youngest D is getting presented with her first bible at the 11 am service which my W will be attending.
Before we split she was attending church regularly without me. Since this all went down she stopped but I picked it up and continued so it has sort of been my thing with our D's. I usually go to bible study at 9:30 and then big church at 11. As most of you probably know the 9:30 bible study is a smaller group. I asked my W last night if she was going to go to the 9:30 class or just meet us for big church at 11. She said it may feel awkward for her to go to the 9:30 class and would more than likely just meet us at 11.
Is it my responsibility to make her feel welcome for the 9:30 class? I have never mentioned anything in prayer group however my neighbor (who is part of the same class) put in a prayer request months ago for us. Is this a situation where I step up as a leader and pave the way for her to attend if she desires? Do I need to give her my approval and encourage her? I am just not quite sure how to handle?
Dude. Laying down some sweet action on a game is definitely Gal! I will be doing that this weekend with the boys at a golf tournament weekend get away.
Nah. You asked her and she declined. No big deal.
Sweet....glad it counts :0. It is one thing that I thoroughly enjoy but was difficult to do with the W and kids around so I am really looking forward to have a few cocktails and getting in on some action! It's kid of funny, my house has kind of turned into a Bachelor pad for the dad's on my block because they know they can come over and get some man time! They actually kind of envy me
The golf tournament sounds awesome. It was a goal that I had when this first happened. I have always wanted to start playing but just never made it happen. I started at the beginning of summer but I gets so hot in TX that it was just miserable. Looking forward to picking it back up again this fall!
I didn't really ask her to go I mentioned it as I assumed she wouldn't want to and she was the one that brought up it may be awkward. When she said that I really didn't say much and the subject got dropped. I won't bring it up again. She is a big girl and can make her own decisions. Maybe she will feel more comfortable after going to big church with us this Sunday. I wonder if it will be hard for her to attend with us sitting there as a family. It's her cross to bear (no pun intended)!
Getting her to church should be helpful, probably bible study too. At least you are getting her to church. Being too eager to get her to go will drive her away. I would just make sure you aren't giving her vibes that you're the better person for going, because that will keep her from going.
I would also say it is more important for her to go than you, so if at some point in the future you have to not go to get her to go, I would do that too.
Well it is 100% confirmed that my W is really not in our R or with our family at this time. My youngest D got her first bible today in a presentation in front of the church today. i told my W and she said she wanted to attend. I'm like ok cool maybe going to church will touch her heart! Well I guess today really confirms to not have any epectations!
She was late, said my oldest D was giving her problems. Furthermore she showed right as my D was getting her bible so I was in the lobby to meet her so I our nieghboor had to video the presentation for me as I sat in the back. It was kind of upseting that she couldn't arrive on time for our D.
So we sat together as a family with our children sitting between us. After church was over she got up and walked out. Didnt say hi to our neigboors or any of our family friends. I assume she felt awkward but who knows. So we walked out together as a family and I we where talking in the lobby about pick up and drop off arrangements for the day. As we were talking out neighboors and family friends came out to say hi and you could tell my W felt really awkward and out of place. The interesting thing is that before we separated she was really actively pursuing religion and even got baptised. Now it just felt like a foreign concept to her.
Kid exchange was supposed to be today around 5 pm. Since it was already a little after noon the kids wanted to come with me so I said no problem. We walked out to the parking lot as a family and she couldn't even remember where she parked. I was just such a wierd experience. You could tell she was really stressed out by the kids and was so excited when our kids said they wanted to come with me. She made the comment she was sooo done with them and needed a break. They are at choir practice now but today I realized how fragile emotionally she is and I see glimpses of her struggles.
Anyway she shown no glimpses of softening or changing her stance. I did tell her she looked nice, I had on my new skinny jeans and a new shirt, she made no comment. I feel no anger towards her, I actually feel very sad for her for some reason but I know there is nothing I can do for her at this time. She just seems so angry, emotionally flat and in general not a happy person. This is such a crazy experience!
I feel bad for my girls, I just hope they are getting what they need at this time emotionally from my W while they are with her.
Sorry to hear this update J. Looks like your W came because she felt she had to - like it was an obligation rather than coming to celebrate a nice moment for your D.
Her comment about her being so done with the kids - dammm, that would hard to hear for me. If your Ds aren't getting what they need emotionally from her, then at least you're there and have stepped up your game. Your Ds definitely need you as the more stable parent right now.
I hope your W gets some help. I seriously wish I could drag my W to an IC and tell her to get her $hit worked out so that we can actually sit down and talk about the MR in a real way.
I am glad to hear the event went well for your D though. Sounds like a wonderful ceremony. I am not religious, but I come from a heavy religious cultural background and such ceremonies and events can be quite heart warming.
Love the skinny jeans. Wish we could all post pics of our new swag here
Sorry to hear this update J. Looks like your W came because she felt she had to - like it was an obligation rather than coming to celebrate a nice moment for your D.
Yeah maybe, probably. When I originally told her it about she immediately said I would like to go. Maybe the as the date got closer she got overwhelmed by the pressure of it. Who knows but you could tell she felt awkward. I have also noticed she has had a hard time keeping a schedule. I find myself having to repeat myself many times for drop off times, practice/game times, etc. She was even late to open house at the school. Not sure where her mind is at but she is definitely not paying attention to the details. She just seems scattered brained and easily overwhelmed.
Her comment about her being so done with the kids - dammm, that would hard to hear for me. If your Ds aren't getting what they need emotionally from her, then at least you're there and have stepped up your game. Your Ds definitely need you as the more stable parent right now.
She has always had a lack of patience with them. This was one of my concerns when she started all of this. She can't take them in large chunks of time I knew it would be hard on her having them for an entire week with me not around to support. So I know yesterday when she came to the house and gave me their suitcase she had enough. Even made the comment last week about how nice the prize is of having time alone time to herself. Like the trade off is worth it to get time by yourself.
I hope your W gets some help. I seriously wish I could drag my W to an IC and tell her to get her $hit worked out so that we can actually sit down and talk about the MR in a real way.
I agree, same here. In my W's eyes I believe this arrangement is more about her and her personal escape than anything else. To her it is worth it to have them for a week because then she gets a full week off to herself. The new friends that she has made all of have older kids. She stopped hanging around her old friends who have kids the same age. She is trying to do things they are doing but their children are in high school or college and don't need the same support as our kids do. It's just crazy to see the transformation she has gone through mentally.
I am glad to hear the event went well for your D though. Sounds like a wonderful ceremony. I am not religious, but I come from a heavy religious cultural background and such ceremonies and events can be quite heart warming.
We are not over religious people either but I thought it was my responsibility to introduce my children to religion so when they get older they can make their own choice. My W started going to church last year without me. Right before we separated I started going then continued it after she moved out. It was one of goals to keep going and my girls are really enjoying it.
Love the skinny jeans. Wish we could all post pics of our new swag here smile
LOL......they are quite comfortable, got them at Bannana Republic. W never made one comment about them but for that matter has never made a comment about anything. In her eyes I don't even exist outside of communicating with me about money or finances.
The thoughts of having no expectations and making changes for yourself really resignated with me yesterday. It is so true and yesterday drove it home.
I find myself having to repeat myself many times for drop off times, practice/game times, etc. She was even late to open house at the school. Not sure where her mind is at but she is definitely not paying attention to the details. She just seems scattered brained and easily overwhelmed.
yeah, I have noticed that with my W too. She keeps telling me the same story over and over again not realizing she told me last time I had seen her - it's a bit disconcerting to see that she forgot she told me all of this.
She has always had a lack of patience with them. This was one of my concerns when she started all of this. She can't take them in large chunks of time I knew it would be hard on her having them for an entire week with me not around to support. So I know yesterday when she came to the house and gave me their suitcase she had enough. Even made the comment last week about how nice the prize is of having time alone time to herself. Like the trade off is worth it to get time by yourself
Sounds like taking care of the kids is a chore right now and she can't handle it. Yes, it is nice to have the time off from the kids, but that is trying to make the best of a messed up situation.
In my W's eyes I believe this arrangement is more about her and her personal escape than anything else. To her it is worth it to have them for a week because then she gets a full week off to herself.
Yeah, the selfishness is really unappealing.
We are not over religious people either but I thought it was my responsibility to introduce my children to religion so when they get older they can make their own choice.
Same here. Exposing kids to everything and then when they're older, they can decide what they want.
The thoughts of having no expectations and making changes for yourself really resignated with me yesterday. It is so true and yesterday drove it home.
Yeah I can see why you're contemplating filing because it seems like W hasn't moved an inch in whatever is going on with her.
It has made it really easy to DB and in many way's she has been DBing me also. There have been no mixed messages, no cake eating, no calling me on the phone asking me questions, heck when she came to the house yesterday she went to the front door and rang the door bell even though the garage door was open.
There has never been the random reaching out for anything outside of it being for the kids or finances. I have tried to engage a little bit just to tip my toe in the water to see if I get anything from her. Yesterday I told her she looked nice, got nothing.
We have our wedding anniversary coming up on 9/20 so I know that day won't be acknowledged. It is a fine balance between leaving some shred of hope open but completely moving on with your life.
I have been doing some thinking on when/if my W asks for the D and wants to push forward. All of our money is tied up in retirement accounts, IRA's and Life Insurance policies. We wouldn't have enough cash on hand for us to fund a D. She currently has no access to any of our joint account and would have no idea about how to go about withdrawing money to pay for lawyers etc.
If she comes to me and says she is ready to move forward do I need to give her access to some of this money so she can proceed? In her current situation she will never be able to afford a L on her own. She will never have access to that amount of money until after our D settlement or unless I give her an advance.
Any advice?
If she doesn't have access, why would you give her access. If she doesn't know about it then that's not your problem. She wants the divorce and she needs to find a way to afford a lawyer. Let her figure it out. If she comes to you, go talk to a lawyer first and ask do you have to provide her money.
Nope. As Joe said, let her figure it all out.
I guess part of my thought process is that in a D she would get half of our marital assets which she currently doesn't have access to. She would get the money post D but has no access to it pre D. If/when it happens it's probably something I will need to consult with a L about. A friend of mine is local county judge so it's probably something I could run by him.
Was at soccer practice with my D's tonight and my 8 yr old starts signing the I got big butts song. I was like hold on there where di u hear that song. She said she was at 1 of her moms friends house and my W and her friend where playing it my W's friends neighboors were over as well. She said they were a couple of young boys that lived in the apartment next door.
I am trying to curb my emotions but I am about done with this crap. I know I can't control it but I am about tired of being patient in this limbo state. I have really been thinking about filing for D myself over the course of the past week or so . If my W is going to do this stype of stuff I am really starting to question my role in sitting on the sidelines, doing me while this is happening.
I know if I file for D it won't change anything but maybe I can get some self-respect back. She still shows no interest in working on our R and it is coming up on the 3rd month of our separation.
Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions on this?
My thought is start enjoying your life. Stop worrying about your wife. Shes not worried about you. Emotionally detach. You havent detached yet. If these situation are still bothering you, you are still there emotionally.
If you are worried about your daughters, filling a D won't change who their mother is. I'm 3 months in as well. We have to control our emtionals and live life. Lets GAL hard!!!!!! Lets love our kids hard!!!! Lets detach until we see thru the WW wife.
I would think her new lawyer would tell her how to get the money, whether she is "entitled" to some of it, or he gets paid at the time of D.
I'm not going to tell you what you should do, but I will clarify your thinking. You are choosing to DB. It is a difficult and counter-intuitive thing. You aren't choosing DB because that's just how you are and it is the path of least resistance (it is the complete opposite). You are choosing DB because it may work. You should have MORE respect for yourself for trying it.
I may have misinterpreted your post. If so, my apologies.
Easy big fella you are overeacting to a bad 80s song. Remember that you are working on you for you and not her and it will pay off for you in the long run.
What do you mean filing for D will get your respect back?
LH.....meaning like, taking control of the situation. It just seems those that saved their marriage took some sort of action outside of just working on themselves. Maybe it was threantening D, maybe it was forcing the WW to move out or maybe it was exposing the A, etc. It just seems that just sitting back and doing you rarely works it is a combination of a few things.
The difference is that they knew they were ok with the result even if it turned the other way around. Are you? All I can say is that don't burn the bridges and let the time do it's thing. Doing nothing is actually doing SOMETHING, in this case. You are DBing. I realized I'm currently wanting to grow alone myself but there was no reason for me to push my XW further away by my actions in case my mind changes in the future. I gained nothing from it. Live your life for you now, time will show.
J-dawg
meaning like, taking control of the situation. It just seems those that saved their marriage took some sort of action outside of just working on themselves. Maybe it was threantening D, maybe it was forcing the WW to move out or maybe it was exposing the A, etc. It just seems that just sitting back and doing you rarely works it is a combination of a few things.
Let me ask you this. Is this about control or about not being able to live with all this ambiguity of what's actually going on with W? I am wondering if at some level your motivation to do D is coming from not living in this uncertain zone - I don't think it's being in limbo because you are living your life, but at some point something needs to happen. I am in this zone of ambiguousness and unicorns and I don't know what the hell to make of it.
LH
but there was no reason for me to push my XW further away by my actions in case my mind changes in the future.
What do you mean by that LH? what actions drove your XW further away?
It was me, not LH
You can read those things in my thread but I'm sure you just confused me&LH because you've commented in my thread :P
Haha yes LC... sorry was reading too fast. Yes, I know your sitch so no need to respond.
Joseph,
I understand how you feel. I wanted to shake the cage as well with some threat. But a threat is not what you want. You want to be sure. This will take time. In my opinion. I think becoming the best you, and letting her see and putting doubt in her mind about what she is doing, will having a better impact than a threat. Her reactions and actions will cause you to doubt your actions, but if you fully detach, you won't worry about any of that, and she will notice, when you really don't care. Woman notice a lot, and she will notice if you still have some care, but guess what she will also notice when you don't care at all. You will still love her, but you won't let what she does impact you. The day she notice that, you will notice a change, and you will keep going. Take the marathon approach, stop sprinting.
J9,
IMO Here is what you need to figure out.I was told by my IC a couple years ago that people are motivated two things Love and Fear. People will do more to avoid pain then they will do to gain pleasure.
Do you want your wife back because you are head over heels in love with her and you realized you made a big mistake in becoming complaisant in your marriage and moving forward you will treat her like your queen like she deserves?
Or are you fearful of the unknown, how your kids will turn out, can you financially afford a divorce?
Once I really dug deep I realized I have been driven by fear. It's still hard but I think makes acceptance easier.
The difference is that they knew they were ok with the result even if it turned the other way around. Are you? All I can say is that don't burn the bridges and let the time do it's thing. Doing nothing is actually doing SOMETHING, in this case.
The longer this goes on the closer I get every day to being ok with it. I have heard often around here that many times the LBS ends up not wanting to reconcile at the end because of the work they did after BD. I know I am not a perfect person but I also don't feel like I have a ton of major things to work on to improve myself. Bottom line, I got lazy, could do a better job of communicating with my W in the future and we needed to make more time for ourselves.
I have been going to IC for the last three months and through that process I have realized I am a very happy and content person. I used to think something was wrong with me because I didn't have a need for a ton of outside interests. Sure I like going to the gym and working out, I also love playing basketball 3 days a week but I don't have this deep burning desire to do stuff. I would like to travel more as well and I also like to cook.
Call me boring but I am happy and content with my life. My W said she was not content but new I was so I thought I had to fill my life with a bunch of stuff I have no interest in but realized I should be happy with who I am and maybe it is my W who has the problem. Maybe I am just a simple person who does not have a bunch of elaborate needs.
I have literally done nothing over the course of the last 2 months to pursue my W. There has been no movement at all and while the general theme of everyone's sitch is similar the individuals playing the roles are vastly different.
The hardest part to decide is how long to wait especially as your confidence grows. When my W first told me I felt like I got TKO'd by Tyson in the first round. Through this process though and with IC I realized that I am a very happy and content person. Sure I have bought new clothes, lost weight, got a new hair cut, etc. for me and I feel great. I just don't know if my W is worth waiting around for because I know I am a good guy, with a good job and I take care of my responsibilities in life.
That is why it is hard to remain patient.
I I don't think it's being in limbo because you are living your life, but at some point something needs to happen. I am in this zone of ambiguousness and unicorns and I don't know what the hell to make of it.
I think it is trying to decide when something needs to happen. If she is going to do these things is it worth saving because I deserve better and you start to feel that way as your confidence grows.
Do you want your wife back because you are head over heels in love with her and you realized you made a big mistake in becoming complaisant in your marriage and moving forward you will treat her like your queen like she deserves?
This is good stuff, I loved my W but I never thought she really allowed me to love her if that makes sense. Looking back I don't know if she really ever let me in 100% which I think has to do with how she was raised. Like she never really allowed herself to be 100% vulnerable. Which in turn pushed me away etc. according to my IC. We discussed me and my NG traits and my IC told me that maybe you became this NG because your W never allowed you to make your points or validate you in the R. Does that make sense?
When I sit here and think about working on myself, etc. I think....what do I need to work on? I know I am not perfect person but it's really hard for me to think about what I could do differently.
Or are you fearful of the unknown, how your kids will turn out, can you financially afford a divorce?
Fear, I think I know it, just don't want to admit it. I remember at times not being happy myself in our R I just didn't have the tools at that time to understand how to deal with it. I just chalked it up to this is married left and because of how she dealt with conflict I just became this guy that never pushed an argument because I knew it wouldn't go anywhere. My W is a broken person and she told me that before she left. She has battled depression since we have been married and is always searching for something to make her happy vs looking within.
When this first went down we talked about going to mediation vs us getting separate L's and going down that path to reduce some of expense. I am sure both of us are afraid deep down inside to pull the trigger. I am a saver so while I am not a millionaire by any stretch we could afford to make it happen.
J9,
IMO, if you think she is not worth waiting for, I think you should wait until you know she is not worth waiting for.
A lot of times, IMO I think we get impatient, waiting for a sign, because we are looking so hard. Maybe you are not looking hard, maybe you are over this situation and if you truly are, then you know the next step. But if you know you haven't try something, try it first before doing the big D. You might have to think hard.
Also, you said,
[quote] I know I am not a perfect person but I also don't feel like I have a ton of major things to work on to improve myself. Bottom line, I got lazy, could do a better job of communicating with my W in the future and we needed to make more time for ourselves.
What did you wife say she didn't like, what did she found wrong with the R. What didn't she like about the man you became. If you truly want you wife back, then you have to 180 those things. We all became lazy and we all could of communicated better. But are the exact things your wife found wrong?
I will also say, only you know your SIT.
Joe
The only thing she said was I needed to be more of a leader but didn't elaborate on what that entailed. She told me I was happy and content but she was not. She also indicated that I did not challenge her to be a better person. Told me I was a safe choice.
My W is the kind of person that is always trying new things and when she tries something she jumps in feet first, with her entire body. They are important to her at the time (she always has to have her mind occupied with something) but when whatever she is currently working on fizzles out/runs its course/is finished she is off to the next thing. I envy her for it because she is very talented in that regard and is not afraid to put herself out there. My W openly says she is a very complicated individual.
I on the other hand am just a happy and content person that doesn't have a need to pursue those type of things. I am perfectly content hitting the gym, playing sports, watching my D's play sports, etc. Doing a little bit of travel here and there. Going to work just living life.
I think she felt like I was stagnant in life.
Or are you fearful of the unknown, how your kids will turn out, can you financially afford a divorce?
Fear, I think I know it, just don't want to admit it. I remember at times not being happy myself in our R I just didn't have the tools at that time to understand how to deal with it.
The same thing happened to me before I had my kids. Once I had kids I made the decision (based a lot on my mom's views) it's no longer about me it's about the kids/family.
I would see other couples interacting with one another and could just see the happiness in their eyes and I would be envious of them.
My wife's and I relationship was ok but I never felt a total deep connection and just assumed it was the norm. Especially because my closest friends are all unhappily married.
That's why when I read Accuray's post it spoke to me so deeply.
LH......what was the post from Accuracy?
My W and I are 2 totally different people and what she valued in me when we first got married was my stability and she always knew I would love her no matter what. What I valued in her was her ability to open my eyes to an entire different way of thinking and views on life.
I guess we never grew together or what ultimately attracted us to one another in the beginning eventually drove us a part.
J9,
I think you wife was trying to tell you, she likes a man that takes control. She wants a man who takes a risk, and looks for a little adventure. If you really think you can't do those things, then she might not be the one for you. But if you truly love your wife, you will make a few changes for her. Take a risk, do something you will have done before. I play basketball as well. My wife tried to tell I was the safe choice as well. That's a cop out. Go jump out of a plane. Make her freakin head turn. But if you are truly not into those things, and your aren't will to compromise, then you might ever make each other happy.
The only thing she said was I needed to be more of a leader but didn't elaborate on what that entailed. She told me I was happy and content but she was not. She also indicated that I did not challenge her to be a better person. Told me I was a safe choice.
My W is the kind of person that is always trying new things and when she tries something she jumps in feet first, with her entire body. They are important to her at the time (she always has to have her mind occupied with something) but when whatever she is currently working on fizzles out/runs its course/is finished she is off to the next thing. I envy her for it because she is very talented in that regard and is not afraid to put herself out there. My W openly says she is a very complicated individual.
I on the other hand am just a happy and content person that doesn't have a need to pursue those type of things. I am perfectly content hitting the gym, playing sports, watching my D's play sports, etc. Doing a little bit of travel here and there. Going to work just living life.
I think she felt like I was stagnant in life.
J9, I know exactly how you feel. Frequently I would get told that I wasn't leading like I should be (Which is her opinion, bc I led, just in a different way)
As far as challenging her to be a better person, sometimes that can come from challenging yourself to be a better person. Life is a series of constant changes. And to not allow yourself to change is to deny growth and opportunity. I sort of see it as a keeping up with the Jones' mindset.
My W always wanted me to evolve and grow. She said she felt like she was dragging me along however, and that I did not want to grow. I did grow, although admittedly not in the ways she had desired, nor with the speed in which she wanted it to happen.
But my growth has happened exponentially since the S.
Why are you doing it? Why are you so obsessed with W? You were in a relationship with a woman who wasn't meeting your needs, who would irrationally blame you for anything that went wrong. Why is that a prize worth making the focus of your waking attention?
The reason is that you are grasping to re-establish a feeling of control over your life.
When W dropped the bomb she ripped your sense of stability away from you. From your perspective you didn't do anything to deserve it, you couldn't stop it from happening, and you couldn't put things back together afterwards.
That would make anyone feel totally out of control, spinning down the drain, and that is a horrible feeling!
You are trying to analyze and understand everything so that you can build it into a rational model so that it will never, ever happen to you again. If I can avoid doing X, then Y will never happen. In addition, you want to unlock this puzzle, to deconstruct it so you can find the solution that will allow you to rebuild it. Finding that key would provide immense comfort.
Your brain has convinced itself that getting W back, or getting W to apologize and declare a desire to have you back is the very best and fastest way to restore your feeling of being in control.
With the benefit of time and distance, you'll realize that's what it's really all about, it's about regaining the ability to feel in control of your life and your future. It really has very little to do with W or who she is as a person, she's a lever to get you what you want, but that's really just an illusion.
I think you wife was trying to tell you, she likes a man that takes control
I think that is where the communication would help because in order to take control she would need to be willing to give up some control. We never really discussed things on a deeper level which would have to change moving forward. I also feel like I do take control in some areas however it may not be in-line with what her expectations are. Hence the need for better communication.
Before she moved out I did ask her what she needed from me. She couldn't articulate it but said she knows I would never be able to do it.
She wants a man who takes a risk, and looks for a little adventure. If you really think you can't do those things, then she might not be the one for you. But if you truly love your wife, you will make a few changes for her. Take a risk, do something you will have done before.
I am willing to try but I have no desire to jump out of a plane
. Not sure where or how to get started because this stuff is supposed to be for me not her correct?
I have changed my appearance quite significantly . I have been working for the same company for almost 20 years but make really good money. So I do think about that and is that a perception because I haven't moved around professionally to different companies taking risks.
I want to make sure I do it for myself and to not give the perception it is for her.
Why are you doing it? Why are you so obsessed with W? You were in a relationship with a woman who wasn't meeting your needs, who would irrationally blame you for anything that went wrong. Why is that a prize worth making the focus of your waking attention?
The reason is that you are grasping to re-establish a feeling of control over your life.
When W dropped the bomb she ripped your sense of stability away from you. From your perspective you didn't do anything to deserve it, you couldn't stop it from happening, and you couldn't put things back together afterwards.
That would make anyone feel totally out of control, spinning down the drain, and that is a horrible feeling!
You are trying to analyze and understand everything so that you can build it into a rational model so that it will never, ever happen to you again. If I can avoid doing X, then Y will never happen. In addition, you want to unlock this puzzle, to deconstruct it so you can find the solution that will allow you to rebuild it. Finding that key would provide immense comfort.
Your brain has convinced itself that getting W back, or getting W to apologize and declare a desire to have you back is the very best and fastest way to restore your feeling of being in control.
With the benefit of time and distance, you'll realize that's what it's really all about, it's about regaining the ability to feel in control of your life and your future. It really has very little to do with W or who she is as a person, she's a lever to get you what you want, but that's really just an illusion.
Thanks man.....I saved it to my desktop, it's so true.
Knowing all this what prevented you from filing for D yourself?
J9, I know exactly how you feel. Frequently I would get told that I wasn't leading like I should be (Which is her opinion, bc I led, just in a different way)
I think it is all about communication of which I thought I was a good communicator but after coming to this board realized I was not.
As far as challenging her to be a better person, sometimes that can come from challenging yourself to be a better person. Life is a series of constant changes. And to not allow yourself to change is to deny growth and opportunity. I sort of see it as a keeping up with the Jones' mindset.
My W always wanted me to evolve and grow. She said she felt like she was dragging me along however, and that I did not want to grow. I did grow, although admittedly not in the ways she had desired, nor with the speed in which she wanted it to happen.
I really didn't know any better. I was just cruising along in life and never new that this was important to her. Again I think it falls back to communication. Most of us just go to work, take care of the kids, maybe go out to dinner here and there but have little time for anything else. I just thought that is what we are supposed to do. I guess my W needed something more of which I can't provide to her.
J9,
GALing is for you. But 180s are for you wife. You have been working at the same job for 20 years. Do you love your job? Is there a career that you really wanted?
Also, I asked my wife the same thing, what can I do different, and her answer was you should know. Basically, you wife don't want to tell what you need to do, as you say gain control. If you just want her to give you control, it won't work. You have to do the things that make her want to give you control. That's what you ultimately want right for her to want to give you control?
You don't have to jump off of planes, my point was try new things. Be a little adventurous. If you want your wife.
I couldn't walk out on my kids.
Never thought she would actually go through with it and she was going through some sort of a phase/crisis.
Even though I am detached and ready to move on I still believe if she became 100% committed we could have a pretty good marriage.
Having said that I think too much damage has been done.
I couldn't walk out on my kids.
I hear you, that's my one sticking point. I have my D's this week and they have already asked me when they will see mommy again.
Never thought she would actually go through with it and she was going through some sort of a phase/crisis.
Yep, same here. I can't imagine her doing it and feel the same way about it being a phase, etc.
Even though I am detached and ready to move on I still believe if she became 100% committed we could have a pretty good marriage.
I know I am not 100% detached but I do believe with her commitment and better communication we could have a good marriage.
Having said that I think too much damage has been done.
I am not quite their yet. If she is doing anything she has been very quiet about it, not posting anything on social media, rubbing it in my face, etc. The longer this goes on though the further removed I get.
But 180s are for you wife.
180s should be for things you want to change about yourself. Not for your wife.
I am not quite their yet. If she is doing anything she has been very quiet about it, not posting anything on social media, rubbing it in my face, etc. The longer this goes on though the further removed I get.
I agree it is way too early for you.
This Saturday will be three years of hearing I am not sure what I want/I'm just not happy yada yada yada.
That will take it's fuching toll on you. Especially when I am quite the catch lol!
You have been working at the same job for 20 years. Do you love your job? Is there a career that you really wanted?
My parents worked for this company so when I graduated college I didn't know what I wanted to do so I just kind of fell into it. I don't necessarily have passion or career I really wanted however I make really good money which in reality is allowing my W to afford her apartment
.
That's what you ultimately want right for her to want to give you control?
I don't know if it's about control or taking on more of a leadership role. I do know that I could have taken more of an active role with being present, establishing family values, having a vision, etc. I didn't realize it at that time as I thought it was a joint effort but with that said I know my W would come up with stuff but ultimately we never enforced it.
So something different for me would be doing something like this in my home during the weeks I have my D's to help provide them with more family stability. My W would never notice unless my d's told her.
J9,
Something like what?
Your job is helping your wife afford her apartment? Why are you paying for your wife's apartment? She wanted to leave, so she should take on the responsibility of her actions.
All you want out of life is to work and be a dad. What do you want to be known for? What is your vision? What is something you wanted to do, that you never have done? How would your Ds describe you? And what do you want them to remember you for?
J9,
Something like what?
Your job is helping your wife afford her apartment? Why are you paying for your wife's apartment? She wanted to leave, so she should take on the responsibility of her actions.
All you want out of life is to work and be a dad. What do you want to be known for? What is your vision? What is something you wanted to do, that you never have done? How would your Ds describe you? And what do you want them to remember you for?
I agree with JJ here. When W left, one of the things I had to do, was look inside and see what my purpose was. At first I thought it was 'Being the best dad and husband I can'. I thought that was why I was put on the earth. I realized that wasn't it.
My question is, aside from being a dad and husband, What were you put on this earth for?
I am still trying to figure that out. If you guys have answers please let me know. Something that I am exploring through IC which so far I have no answers for.
Is there anything wrong with being content in life? I have interests but at the end of the day isn't being a good human being, father and husband what's most important?
I am still trying to figure that out. If you guys have answers please let me know. Something that I am exploring through IC which so far I have no answers for.
Is there anything wrong with being content in life? I have interests but at the end of the day isn't being a good human being, father and husband what's most important?
Of course it is important. Let me ask this..
Imaginr that you never had kids, you never got married, and you never had that job. What would you be doing.
What are you PASSIONATE about? What lights up your heart when you do something or think about doing it?
Those were questions I had to ask myself, to get my answer.
J9,
All those things you mentioned were important. But those things are apart of you. They are not you. You are a dad, you are a great man, you are a good husband. But you have to want more out of life.
I know I want to help people in unfortunate situations. I know I want to motivate people to do better for themselves. I love being adventurous and trying new things.
You have to have a passion. You have to look deep. What did you want to become when you were in HS?
I agree with Jmstl, what is your passion? If you were a single man with no kids, all you would want to do is sit at home and work? This is my opinion, and not a shot a you, but I think any person, especially our wives would not want to see their husbands just living life from day to day. If you don't know your purpose, how would your wife know your purpose and passions. Also, it's not to late to find one. You have to get out and try new things.
I have interests but I can't think of 1 thing that I am passionate about. IMO having interests and passions are two different things.
I want to be passionate about something which has come up recently in IC but I am a pretty simple person with very few needs. When I posed this question to my IC she said "What is wrong with being a content person with simple needs?" I even expressed my concerns to her about what is my purpose etc. She responded by saying "What's wrong with being a good husband father and enjoying spending time with your children? Do you now how many people are struggling in life just to get that component down?" It doesn't make it any easier but I have been searching but currently have no answers.
I just tried to think of some stuff below none of which fits like saving the whales, or the political process, things of that nature.
- I like to cook and my W enjoyed it when I did. I looked into taking some classes but couldn't find anything close to the house.
- I like to bet on football and sports in general
- I like to lift weights and generally live a healthy lifestyle
- I like to drink some beers with buddies and I used to enjoy brewing my own beer and smoking cigars.
- I like sampling different bourbons
- I used to hit a few concerts and try new restaurants every now and then.
- I like doing projects around the house
- Now that the kids are older I wanted to do some more traveling
- I like buying new clothes and investing in myself (appearance)
- I like to do anything with my kids. Really enjoy watching them play sports.
J9,
You ever thought about entering a cooking contest? Do you do landscaping? Travel! Where do you want to go? Leave the kids with you wife and get on a plane, or on the road and go. Do look back, enjoy yourself. Investing in your appearance is a great thing. You ever thought about changing up your outfits and look a bit. Maybe if you wear T shirts, where a nice fitting button down. If you where loose jeans, maybe try them a little more fitted. If you wear hats, get a nice hair cut. Cut it all off. Do something risky. I know what the IC is saying, and it's nothing wrong with those things.
You are right passion and interest or different but interest can grow into passions.
I have interests but I can't think of 1 thing that I am passionate about. IMO having interests and passions are two different things.
I want to be passionate about something which has come up recently in IC but I am a pretty simple person with very few needs. When I posed this question to my IC she said "What is wrong with being a content person with simple needs?" I even expressed my concerns to her about what is my purpose etc. She responded by saying "What's wrong with being a good husband father and enjoying spending time with your children? Do you now how many people are struggling in life just to get that component down?" It doesn't make it any easier but I have been searching but currently have no answers.
I just tried to think of some stuff below none of which fits like saving the whales, or the political process, things of that nature.
- I like to cook and my W enjoyed it when I did. I looked into taking some classes but couldn't find anything close to the house.
- I like to bet on football and sports in general
- I like to lift weights and generally live a healthy lifestyle
- I like to drink some beers with buddies and I used to enjoy brewing my own beer and smoking cigars.
- I like sampling different bourbons
- I used to hit a few concerts and try new restaurants every now and then.
- I like doing projects around the house
- Now that the kids are older I wanted to do some more traveling
- I like buying new clothes and investing in myself (appearance)
- I like to do anything with my kids. Really enjoy watching them play sports.
Now, take that list, and narrow it down to 1 thing. Of all of those things, what interest or hobby do you like the most, and wouldn't want taken away from you?
I would say the gym and being athletic. It is an incredible stress release and helps with your overall confidence. Nothing I better than wearing a tight shirt, showing off the guns at kid pick up
My W and I are 2 totally different people and what she valued in me when we first got married was my stability and she always knew I would love her no matter what. What I valued in her was her ability to open my eyes to an entire different way of thinking and views on life.
I guess we never grew together or what ultimately attracted us to one another in the beginning eventually drove us a part.
This is so much like me and my STBXW. I expect it's a common dynamic.
I agree with your IC. There's nothing wrong with being content in your life - we don't all have to be go-getters and adventurers.
There's no shame in being "stable". The trick is to find someone else who's also stable.
I agree with your IC. There's nothing wrong with being content in your life - we don't all have to be go-getters and adventurers.
That was kid of a hard pill to swallow because I was thinking about it in the context of my W. She says I am content but she is not so something must be wrong with me. My IC well maybe she is the one with the problem which really opened my eyes.
There's no shame in being "stable". The trick is to find someone else who's also stable.
I know if/when I have another relationship this will be at the top of my list to vet out for sure.
The trick is to find someone else who's also stable.
I don't think our wife's are unstable. There seems to be something about a woman in midlife where they ask themselves "is this all there is to life?" Another Stander has discussed this in detail in the past.
They think walking away is the only thing that will make them happy.
Looking back I never would have guessed my W would do something like this. In reality people change and handle stress differently so you never know.
So having my D's for a week at a time is impacting my gym GAL activities. The gym is 10 min from my house, they 8 and 6, I also have 2 big 70 lb dogs. Is it acceptable to go to the gym at 5 am when they are sleeping? I would be home by the time they woke to get about an hour workout in.
We live in the suburbs, great neighborhood, we know the neighbors as they have young kids as well. Any thoughts on this?
I don't think our wife's are unstable. There seems to be something about a woman in midlife where they ask themselves "is this all there is to life?" Another Stander has discussed this in detail in the past.
They think walking away is the only thing that will make them happy.
I agree that's not always the case. But My STBXW is always coming up with crazy schemes, chasing shiny things, or looking for the next challenge. She has trouble just standing still, appreciating what she has, and simply "being". I sense that Joseph's W is the same way. That's what I'm talking about.
Yep, that's my W. Always searching for something else, nothing seems to make her happy.
Yeah, don't do that. Look up state laws about what age kids can be left alone. You could get into serious trouble with law enforcement and child services. This is exactly why I am going to make my home gym because when I have the kids for the week, won't be able to do any GAL, but need to keep up with working out.
So having my D's for a week at a time is impacting my gym GAL activities. The gym is 10 min from my house, they 8 and 6, I also have 2 big 70 lb dogs. Is it acceptable to go to the gym at 5 am when they are sleeping?
I personally wouldn't feel comfortable with them being home alone.
So having my D's for a week at a time is impacting my gym GAL activities. The gym is 10 min from my house, they 8 and 6, I also have 2 big 70 lb dogs. Is it acceptable to go to the gym at 5 am when they are sleeping? I would be home by the time they woke to get about an hour workout in.
I do that but mine are 12 and 9. I think yours are too young.
I am kind of with you guys, I would hate for something to happen and it be held over my head. Thanks for confirming my thoughts.
I made myself a home gym in my garage. I have weights and a treadmill.
That's cool, never been a home gym person. I always liked the social aspects of the gym, sitting in the sauna, etc. It is primary source of GAL.
I love the sauna as well. The home gym for when I couldn't make it to the real gym. I love the sauna.
It's a great place to sweat out the damage from the night before
The sauna is what I will miss about the gym too. Well gotta save up for one now lol
J9,
You dam right it is. It's a great place for convo, man talk as well.
So my youngest had a soccer game last night, she scored 3 goals by the way. My W and I sat on the bleachers, they are small so I sat like a row or two behind her. I didn't purposely sit next to her but I was talking to a buddy and I was standing some as well. Not sure if she took notice or not.
When my D's team switched sides of the field I didn't say anything but got up and walked down to the opposite side where my D was playing offense. A few minutes later here comes my W, now she didn't stand right next to me more about 5 ft away or so but she came down none the less. My D scored her 3rd goal and we clapped etc. exchanged a couple of laughs but I thought it was interesting that she came down to where I was.
My D then kicked a girl in the head with the ball and got upset. The coach was comforting her and my W looked at me and indicated she felt bad. I got up and was going to walk out on the field to make sure my D was ok then my W intervened and said let the coach handle it so I sat back down. I thought it was interesting again that my W felt compelled to tell me what to do or that she even thought to say something to me about it.
As always made sure I looked good, acted upbeat, socializing with a couple of buddies etc. cheering on my D all the fun stuff. When the game was over I told my girls to say goodbye to their mom and I started walking away. I don't think I even said good bye to her but my oldest was upset because she wanted to be with her mom and she cried about it on the way home. Not much I could do other than tell her I loved her and that she would see her soon.
I do think my W is taking notice of me I am just not sure if that is translating to anything in her brain.
J9,
I think we all are doing the same thing, looking for a reaction everytime we get around our Ws. I think super patients is going to be needed now. I think detaching is not worrying about what she thinks or feel but, living your life, like her opinions don't matter to you anymore. We know they do, but our thought process has to take on that association. When she is ready to talk, she will. Remember TxHubby situation and his GALing doesn't have a timeline, so we don't really know how it took before his wife took notice, but I'm pretty sure I was sometime.
I think the premise is to make changes for yourself and if she happens to notice continue doing more of that.
Detaching is a process where her emotions don't impact my emotions. IMO that just takes time and distance.
Hubby did his thing and ultimately told his W she was done after I think almost 3 years if I remember right. It seems to me that generally those DBers that get their W back ultimately have to take some sort of action that snaps their W out of it. Either they file for D themselves, kick w out of the house, expose the A or something. I am not sure if I read anyone's sitch where the LBS just improved himself and the WW came back. Maybe they are out there but I have not came across it yet. If you find one let me know because I would love to read through it.
J9,
It was 3 years before TxHubby snapped out of this fog, but he never mentioned how long his wife snapped out of her's after he had, had enough. He also, never mentioned kicking her our of dropping D papers. He just said he ghosted and got a great new life. Also, those who, snapped their WW out of the fog with putting their wives our and using D papers, were exactly done and had moved on with their great new lives. Their Wayward spouses got to see them in their best selves first.
Messages to me from TxHubby,
**My cheating wife was in no hurry to leave and I was going to show her with actions that my life was going to be awesome with or without her. You can't fake it or half ass it. It's going to be the biggest challenge of your life but what it will do is guarantee you a no-lose scenario. She either comes around and is the wife you deserve or you move on with your great new life. When you really know in your heart 100% that you're going to succeed either way then you'll give off that vibe and more times than not, they'll respond.
**My WW didn't leave so I basically ghosted her in the house. Gave her a front row seat to my great new life. I think that did more for me than anything else. I literally didn't concern myself with her comings and goings in the least. My only advice if you're going to do what I did, however, is that you really have to go all-in. No faking your great new life. No sitting around lamenting your situation. That feeds a cheater's ego and makes you look weak and pathetic. They won't love you or respect you, they'll pity you and think less of you. You know, like I did to her when I got my groove back.
Detaching is a process where her emotions don't impact my emotions. IMO that just takes time and distance.
Hubby did his thing and ultimately told his W he was done after I think almost 3 years if I remember right.
You are 100% correct about detaching. J9 in your sitch I am guessing it will come quickly because you and your W are separated and have limited contact. Believe me when I tell you that detaching is IMO the most important part of the process.
When Tex was done he filed. IMO your are not done yet, Use this time wisely to make yourself into the man you want to be and let the rest play out itself.
I guess a question to ask TxHubby is went did he know it was time to drop the D papers. What was his prompt? And did he do it because he was upset because to me, it seems that he knew he was truly through and he truly knew he didn't need her anymore.
Or you there, or are you using the D papers to try and get her out of her fog?
I think that is the question that only we can answer within ourselves. When is enough, enough and you are at a place of self-confidence where you are great either way. I think getting your self-confidence back is the key.
It just seems to me that in most sitch's the LBS takes some sort of action that wakes the WW up and or it is a combination of a couple different things. You may be moving on with your life, detaching, GALing, 180's all that stuff but at the end of the day the LBS is not filing for D either (so essentially your still waiting). At some point in time it is either put up or shut up.
I don't think you use D to get them out of the fog you just file for D because you are ready to move on and are tired of being in limbo. You only file when you are good either way and can accept both outcomes.
I originally told myself 6 months when I started this journey. I do think timing and patience plays a big part because the WW needs to see and notice your changes. Wait long enough and she might believe they will last and deep inside she thinks differently of you. File to soon and you have not given her enough time to change her thought process.
J9,
I do think timing and patience plays a big part because the WW needs to see and notice your changes. Wait long enough and she might believe they will last and deep inside she thinks differently of you. File to soon and you have not given her enough time to change her thought process.
I think this a huge part of this journey, the Wayward spouse must see the new you. And you are right, if you file to early you lessen the impact. I think seeing the new your creates that doubt. If they stay are go, creating that doubt is important in my book. Given them time to change is a must.
So for me I am just taking care of myself and doing my thing. If I file today for D it won't change how I feel as I am still not emotionally ready to date. So outside of having paperwork I can still work on detaching etc. which is what I would have to do any way with or without a D being filed. Make sense?
I would say though that I never did confirm if my W was or was not having an A. A lot of people on here say you can't work on your MR until the A is over with.
J9,
Yeah, I can see now where you are coming from with knowing. How would you know if D is exactly over?
If I file today for D it won't change how I feel as I am still not emotionally ready to date. So outside of having paperwork I can still work on detaching etc. which is what I would have to do any way with or without a D being filed. Make sense?
It make sense.
How long have you been detaching?
My W moved out on 6/17 so I probably started then. Time and distance is really the only way you can detach. GAL helps you through the process but it gets easier and easier as time goes on. You don't see them or talk to them every day, your interactions get less and less, you just gradually grow farther apart over time. During that period hopefully your confidence starts to grow due to your GAL and then you are ready to fly from the nest.
No 1 can detach is a month, I would say you could probably truly get there in a year maybe a little less.
I have thought about filing myself but again having that piece of paper in hand isn't going to change how I feel at this time. I am going to have to go through the process anyway and I don't think the piece of paper is going to help. I also have 2 young children so I am sticking up for them as well. What is 6 mths to a year in another 40 to 50 years of life?
Once my W moved out she has essentially cut me off at knee caps. When she walked she was done and has not waivered. We have not spoken about us or D in close to 2 months. Everything is about our D's or finances. She has not given an inch and has shown no signs of wanting to work on us. I also stopped snooping to find OM once she moved out.
So in many ways she has made this process very easy by not cake eating, drawing me into conversations, calling me, asking me to come over, wanting to hang out, etc. That's why you can't hang onto every conversation or word and you essentially have to view your MR as over and let them go completely.
J9,
My wife is still in the home, hasn't brought up D once. She once told me after an argument, that if I had D papers in front of her she would of signed them. That was over a month ago.
I hope my detachment doesn't take too long. I know it's going to be hard. But I'm ready for the hardwork. Everyday I read and try something new, and work on something I think I didn't do good the day before.
Just a bit of journaling:
This Sunday will mark our 3rd month of separation and I think I am starting to show some signs of detaching.
I feel like I am starting to concentrate more on work, I no longer am checking my phone every few minutes to see if I got a text, thoughts of her are no longer dominating my mind every minute of every day, I do not feel as stressed about my interactions with her, I am sleeping through the night, I find myself praying less for peace, I am enjoying alone time and not having to worry about putting the toilet seat down, doing dishes and washing clothes. I am sure their are a few other things but that is what comes to the top of my mind.
I have also realized that I am a pretty good guy that got lazy in my marriage. Could I make some small tweaks here and there sure, who couldn't but at the end of the day I don't feel as though I have these deep rooted issues to plow through. What I have learned though is that I always need to ensure I look attractive at all times including physical, emotional and spiritual well being. I also need to do a better job of taking initiative also.
I do think I have changed my expectations and how I would communicate with my W in the future if we get to that point of being able to have deep and honest discussions about our relationship. Do I need to be more open about my feelings and expressing them, yes. Do I need to make sure my needs are being met, yet. Should I be afraid of the consequences of expressing my feelings and being more open about my needs no.
I have also learned through this process that I do miss my W and appreciate her even more and what she brought to the table. I understand that most of us will never have the opportunity to reconcile and that is sad/unfortunate. I hope I get the opportunity at some point in time however I know that I will be great either way and will apply what I have learned in this relationship or another.
I am not mad or angry at my W and have no resentment towards her. She felt like she felt and decided this was her best option to take. The only part I wished she would have handled differently was the communication process and a willingness to work on the relationship. That she would have been more direct when she first started to feel that maybe something wasn't working out for her. Maybe the result would have been the same but at minimum we could have walked away knowing that we both tried not only for us but for our children as well.
J-dawg - that post just pulled my heart strings man!
I can just feel the calmness and your detachment radiating from what you wrote. It's probably the most zen thing you've posted so far and it's really inspirational.
I have also learned through this process that I do miss my W and appreciate her even more and what she brought to the table.
I am not there yet, but working with my IC I am hoping to reach a place of true respect, patience, and gratefulness for what W brought to the marriage.
The only part I wished she would have handled differently was the communication process and a willingness to work on the relationship. That she would have been more direct when she first started to feel that maybe something wasn't working out for her. Maybe the result would have been the same but at minimum we could have walked away knowing that we both tried not only for us but for our children as well.
Oh man! I also feel this to the core.
You're in such a great head space right now. I know it will be a permanent state of mind at some point, but it's so good to hear where the future lies in this process when there are people who are ahead of the curve compared to me. It's really nice to read that I will also get there.
Keep it up man!
Dude,
Your'e like a fuching expert at this stuff. I saw your post on someone's thread and your advice was dead on IMO. You don't have to defer to the vets my man.
Your'e right, we got complacent and lazy and for now will pay the price for it. You know what though, we would have never changed if the B didn't drop, at least I know I wouldn't of changed.
I asked my IC a month ago, "what are the chances this ends up being the best thing that ever happened to me?" She said honestly, 99.9%.
You are going to be fine dude. Pay it forward and spread the word to the youth to never become complacent in your marriage.
M - the quicker you can process your emotions the easier it will become to get to that place of patience, respect, etc. If you take what your W has done to you as personal attack then it will take longer than if you look at it objectively.
You will get there, don't beat yourself up, your W had you hanging in limbo and unfortunately you took the bait and thought it might be something more. Very natural IMO considering all the emotions we have inside. The more you have the opportunity to detach the easier it becomes. GAL helps but the only ay to get there is with time and distance. You have to think that it is also helping her in some weird way as well.
LH - Not sure I am an expert but I do feel this has come easier for me because I am not a control freak and have no problems admitting my faults. I think having a general laid back attitude has helped me through this process and I also have to give credit to my W who has never given me 1 inch since the day she moved out.
99.9%.....that is awesome! I feel the same way. I have many more tools at my disposal now that I did before.
I know I will be fine and I will definitely pay it forward! Most of what we are going through is EGO driven once you can't get past your own ego the better off we are.
M - I saved this from a post I read from Michelle maybe it will help.
This is from Nicky, a near-walkaway wife
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Okay, told KentS I'd post some positives in my R. I can see them, I really can... but for those of you who are following my thread to see what goes on in the head of a WAW, let me tell you a thing or two... when I see positive changes in my H, it initially makes me ANGRY. Oh I hide it very well because I said I'd work at this and I will... I mean, I've just about made myself a promise that I wouldn't leave regardless of how the DBing turns out because of our children... but I still get friggin' pissed off, because WHY NOW? Why couldn't he have done these things the first three times I mentioned stuff wasn't right? Even the first 100 times! Because back then I wasn't the least bit confused about how I felt about him-- I adored him and it would have just added to that feeling and I wouldn't have this friggin chunk of ice trying to thaw in my chest. Ya'll go on and on about how your Walk Aways are hurting you and why do they have to be so selfish, etc., etc.... well let me tell you the other side-- it hurts that it takes walking away (or, in my case, just about walking) to make ya'll realize that all the other times we said we were in pain, we really meant it. It would be like hearing your child say my tummy hurts and not doing anything about it until the poor thing's intestine ruptured... do you think that child is going to be jumping up and down to give you thanks because you finally rushed him or her to the hospital?
I'm really not trying to rain on anyone's parade...I do admire each and every one of you who are working so hard to turn your marriages around... but I get tired of hearing the WAS's get villianized as if they just overnight lost their minds and decided to hurt everyone in sight. Maybe a few of them did... but I'd bet the majority were hurting for so long, they finally just decided to cut off the appendage rather than keep dealing with the pain. So when you question why they can't immediately get it that you've changed for the better, why you're having to deal with their confusion for eight months or a year-- it's because they have at least that much time's worth of pain surrounding their heart... and yeah, they had their share in causing the pain, but just like you get frustrated when you feel that you're doing all you can do and it's not enough... that's how they felt. Maybe they didn't have the tools that you have been given via DB, so they didn't communicate in the right way... but somehow,they were trying and felt just as pushed away as you all are feeling now while you're trying to reach them again.
So I have one piece of advice... please, please, please make sure the changes you are making are for real changes. Don't just do it to please the WAS, because that type of change tends to be temporary... and nothing will hurt your case with the WAS more than for them to discover that they opened up to you again in any way only to have you repeat the previous hurtful behavior. Make the changes because you truly believe that you will be a better person for it... and then be patient and understand that your S is confused and angry and hurting... and they aren't really trying to make your life a living H, they're just trying to figure out a way to stop the pain they are feeling... and right now, they truly believe (right or wrong) that YOU are the cause of that pain.
Believe me, I'm really not trying to come down on any of you or trying to make you feel guilty or anything. Really, I'm just venting-- but I also hope that my venting might help ya'll understand why your S's actions might seem a little bonkers to you.
Had soccer games today for my D's. W texted me when she arrived and told me where the field was. Not usually like her. We made some small talk and in customary fashion I walked to the opposite end of the field and she followed several minutes later. Not much was said etc but I could tell that she seemed to warm up the longer we were together. It was kind awkward at first like we were not sure what to say to each other.
After my first D's game we came back to the house as a family and had lunch. I asked her how her friend was doing who just recently separated from her husband. I also asked her how the play date was with 1 of the other soccer dads and his girlfriend. I was just trying to make small talk as our youngest told me she had a play date. She said it was fine and they were really nice. I then asked her if his girlfriend was his A and that is the reason why him and his W got D'd. I probably shouldn't of said but it just came out. She said she didn't know. I fnothing else she knows it is on my radar.
We took separate cars to the 2nd game and it is there where I felt like she loosened up some. She told me having our kids for a week was hard and she started to joke around some. She did not bring up our anniversary which is 9/20 but she did ask if my mom was coming to town on 9/19 which is her birthday and I said "no" Anyway we continued to make small talk, cracked a couple of jokes and I was giving her a hard time about a few things. Just trying to joke around etc. At one point in time a dad was having a hard time getting a straw in a juice box and someone asked him if he was having a hard time getting it in. My W turned to me and made a facial expression, implying a sexual reference. I made a face at her as well something she normally would not do.
I don't want to go as far as saying she was flirting with me but something did feel a little different about our interaction today. It felt as though she wasn't as hardcore, she loosened up some the longer we were around each other, we engaged in some back and forth banter (i tried to kick her with a soccer ball for example) I was cheering for my D and my voice cracked and she said it sounded like i reached second puberty. It just felt like we were messing with each other more than we ever had in the past.
Anyway it has been two months since we have had any conversation about D or our R in general. As always I looked good, had a linen shirt on that showed off my GALing and I was hanging the guns
She didnt say anything but Im sure she noticed
J9, it has been a few weeks since ive talked about the M or R. I wonder at my two month period, will I be able to kick a ball at my wife.
Keep the guns hanging.
Best advice I can give you is to not take anything personal, try to think of the big picture and don't deliberately do things so it comes across as vindictive. It's a fine line but I do know that flirting is part of attraction.
I am not saying we are getting back together again tomorrow but the interaction did feel a little different.
Not talking about it is hard to do at first but about a month in I did my own temp check and didn't like how she made me feel with the rejection. Since that day I vowed I would never put myself in a position to feel that way again. Every time I feel the urge I think back to that day.
So my W tells me this am that she went out and celebrated 1 of her friends birthday last night and left her clutch at the bar with her money and ID. Needless to say her money is gone and she has my girls this week with no means to buy groceries. I feel like a parent that kid comes home from college to stock up on food get a little cash and leaves.
She then asked me for our credit card this am so she could get a few things. I told her no that if she needed groceries send me what she needs and i would buy them when i went to the store. I could tell she didn't like it but I was not going to give her our big CC.
When she came over tonight to pick up our girls from choir practice for the week she commented that I didn't need to get her as much. I told her I understood but I wanted to make sure they had what they needed.
I could tell she felt bad and I told her to not feel guilty that I understood why she does but that I relieve her of any guilt she feels.
I know most folks would prob not agree with me helping her out. If it was just her I would have not done it but with my D's being with her all week I felt compelled.
J - the soccer game update sounds great. Looks like you could hang out and not worry bout a thang.
Needless to say her money is gone and she has my girls this week with no means to buy groceries.
Does she carry around cash only? You can go to the bank and they can give you a replacement temporary card on the spot.
I could tell she felt bad and I told her to not feel guilty that I understood why she does but that I relieve her of any guilt she feels.
I dunno man. I mean, I would probably let her feel the guilt out but not say anything about it. But you the bigger man here so I can see why you did that.
I don't see a problem buying groceries. You're doing it for your D's and one of these days your W needs to pick up the parental bootstraps and hold down the fort from her end.
I read somewhere that the guilt for a WW is not a good thing which is why I said that. Well the kicker is that she had already overdrawn her account earlier in the month so has no money in her checking either until she gets paid.
I didn't do it to win her back, there was no motive behind other than she feels like she feels and is obviously struggling.
I am trying to take my thinking and emotions to higher level of peace when it come to her. I think over time I have got the peace because I know I am a great person with a ton of great qualities.
Like you said the other day Zen like.
She does run hot and cold...I could tell she really does not like having to reach to me for support. It is obvious I can tell her having to come to me pushes her father away because she was very business like. I made sure I did not give the impression that their were strings attached or I expected something from it.
I read somewhere that the guilt for a WW is not a good thing which is why I said that.
Yeah that's true. My W effed on some parental responsibilities and I know what happened because I know her, but I didn't question her or make her feel like crap. She knew why she messed up and has to live with it because it affects my S.
I am trying to take my thinking and emotions to higher level of peace when it come to her. I think over time I have got the peace because I know I am a great person with a ton of great qualities.
Yeah for reals. Zen like. Good place to get to.
I think if you are making sure the kids have what they need, that's all that matters.
If kids were not involved, I'd say let her figure it out. This ENTITLEMENT $HIT kills me. (Sorry, that was self-inflicted, not aimed toward you!)
No thats ok...I got her a few things as well. Im just trying to balance between not enabling her but also not trying to come across as vindictive or being jerk. I am still working on it and haven't figured it out yet. Also trying to think big picture.
I don't reach out and ask her nor do I just do things voluntarily so I hope it doesn't come across as pursuing because that is not my intent.
So sorry for what you are going through. I feel you are doing very well. Going to church helps a lot especially when you are going through stuff like this. It has helped in my jouney too and I found reading the bible and playing good christian music to help.
I feel you may encourage her to attend and tell her she is free to choose what she really wants. Pray for her more for God's will to prevail in her life and for you.
So sorry for what you are going through. I feel you are doing very well. Going to church helps a lot especially when you are going through stuff like this. It has helped in my jouney too and I found reading the bible and playing good christian music to help.
Thanks, none of us wish we were here
. Overall I feel pretty good, still working on detaching but I feel like I am making progress daily. My main GAL activity is going to the gym, I do go out with friends every now and then. Early on I was trying to keep myself busy every night but after awhile I realized that I felt pretty good on my own. Everyone processes things differently.
Our anniversary is tomorrow so I am sure I will have mixed emotions. I have no plans to acknowledge the day.
I feel you may encourage her to attend and tell her she is free to choose what she really wants. Pray for her more for God's will to prevail in her life and for you.
I did encourage her to attend when my D got her bible. I could tell she felt a little awkward and she is welcome to attend again at any time. I will not be inviting her though as that could be considered pursuing. We are not an overly religious family but I do pray often for peace in her heart and strength for my D's. I started going as 1 of my goals and to also expose my D's to religion so when they where old enough they had exposure to make their own choices.