Yesterday I got home after spending as much time away from the house as possible.
I think I made a small error yesterday, I went home around lunch time and there was this Zales box on our dresser the day before, so when I went home for lunch I didn't see it on the dresser and I asked her where did that Zales box come from. She told me it was mines, and one of my sons took it out my drawer. I should of left that topic alone.
Ok, so after I got home around 5:30p.m, I stayed away from her as much as possible. I talked to the boys until it was time for me to get ready and GAL. I went to a New Comers Meeting at the Church I just joined. I bought some news shoes and shirts. I got dressed up, put on some smell good and after I got ready I went downstairs for about 10 to 15 mins where my wife and kids were. The were eating dinner. I didn't tell her where I was going or when I would be back.
We didn't say much to each other at all. She made me dinner and I took it for lunch today. Also, our internet went out so I had to call AT&T to get if fixed, I asked for a technician to come out, my wife told me that, that was not necessary. I wanted to send her a text, to say thank you for the food, and also tell her she was right about not needing a technician.
What do you all think about me sending a text in reference to those two things?
I would word it like:
"Thanks for the food, I really appreciate it, and your were right about the technician not needing to come. I have cancelled the tech from coming out."
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2758010#Post2758010
Come on man. No contact means no contact unless it involves the boys.
What do you think that text is going to accomplish?
LH19,
That's why I ask questions here. When I'm a little unsure, I can be brought back to reality. I guess my actions of taking the food this morning and calling off the tech will work. I told her yesterday I would call off the Tech. So I don't have to say it again.
I guess my actions of taking the food this morning and calling off the tech will work.
What do you mean by the sentence above?
Joe.....as a point of reference. My birthday was about a month after my w moved out. She helped our D's make cards for me and also bought me a cookie cake so the girls and I would have something to celebrate with (nothing is worse than making your own cake
). Later on that I night I sent her a text thanking her for helping and that I appreciated it.
I never got a response back.
Joseph9,
Dam, that open the eyes. I guess that text is not or her, it would be for me, to see her reaction. I won't send the text. I will keep pushing forward with my actions.
I have another question, how many days a week do you all GAL. I want to be home when my kids go to bed. Is there an overkill on GALing?
Dam, that open the eyes. I guess that text is not or her, it would be for me, to see her reaction. I won't send the text. I will keep pushing forward with my actions.
Don't do it....if she doesn't respond you will feel like crap and if she does respond you probably be left wanting more. This is part of the detachment process. IMO when you start feeling good and confident about yourself, to the point to where you really have no expectations you could alter your approach some but until then do nothing. I am 3 months in and still do not initiate any contact with my W unless it is about kids or finances and even then I only initiate about .5% of the time.
I have another question, how many days a week do you all GAL. I want to be home when my kids go to bed. Is there an overkill on GALing?
I have young kids so on the weeks I have them, during the school year maybe 1 time during the week and then on the weekends we do something every Sat and Sun.
I do not have my kids this week so I have done something every night so far after work. My GAL has been the gym, lifting weights, swimming, things like that. I go to church every Sunday and this past Saturday watched college football with some friends.
Everyone is different and needs something different. For me the gym and working out is the best way I can relieve my stress and gain my confidence back. I also invested a lot of money into new clothes and personal hygene items like body lotions, eye cream, things like that, my hair. If you can accomplish that with under water basket weaving then go for it!!
To me the quicker you can get your self-confidence back the better off you will be and it will show to your W or any other lady you meet.
Joseph9,
Dam, that open the eyes. I guess that text is not or her, it would be for me, to see her reaction. I won't send the text. I will keep pushing forward with my actions.
I have another question, how many days a week do you all GAL. I want to be home when my kids go to bed. Is there an overkill on GALing?
GAL as much as you want. It's your life. Your choices. Make your kids part of it if you like. Find fun activities for you and them and plan them. You don't need to run any of it past your wife, you plan your comings and goings with your team and she wants off the team, hence she's out of the loop.
TxHubby,
Ok, got it.
So I called AT&T to cancel the Tech coming up. I listed my wife as the person who would be home during the visit.
So I had to send her a text. Because if they come out it's a $99 charge.
The text stated. "I cancelled the Tech coming out, if they called them them that it was cancelled.".
The text was to the point and direct. What do you all think?
That's fine......I don't think she will D you over that
.
Joseph9,
I hope not. Never know with these folks.
I wonder if any of you all are in the San Antonio/Austin area, we should have a me up and talk about DBing and GALing.
So I have been landscaping around my house. I have took out bushes and mulch and put down pavers and rocks. Next I'm building a outdoor firepit in the back yard. It looks awesome. I have also lost almost 40 pounds. I have to start cutting up. I want to lose 10 more. I'm starting to feel good about myself.
Joe,
I am a big San Antonio Spurs fan so I have extra incentive to help you.
Joseph9,
I hope not. Never know with these folks.
I wonder if any of you all are in the San Antonio/Austin area, we should have a me up and talk about DBing and GALing.
So I have been landscaping around my house. I have took out bushes and mulch and put down pavers and rocks. Next I'm building a outdoor firepit in the back yard. It looks awesome. I have also lost almost 40 pounds. I have to start cutting up. I want to lose 10 more. I'm starting to feel good about myself.
Maybe something at the river walk. I love that place.
LH19,
I hate the Spurs, I'm from New Orleans. I'm stationed here. I'm automatically a Pelicans fan.
TxHubby
That's no problem I free to meet up whenever.
So I called AT&T to cancel the Tech coming up. I listed my wife as the person who would be home during the visit.
So I had to send her a text. Because if they come out it's a $99 charge.
The text stated. "I cancelled the Tech coming out, if they called them them that it was cancelled.".
The text was to the point and direct. What do you all think?
I think you need to stop and take a deep breath and accept that this is a long, long marathon and not a sprint. Your sitch does not hinge on insignificant stuff like this, it's nothing to worry about. Giving her time and space does not mean you can't ever talk to her about the kids, or stuff that needs done around the house or whatever. It just means pulling back a bit. Read Sandi's 37 rules every day, that is your roadmap. I remember being at this stage too, I was so worried about every little conversation, text, body movement. I had W under a microscope. THAT IS NOT GOOD BEHAVIOR! If you micro-analyze everything she WILL sense it, and it will feel like pressure to her. So try and relax, you've got a lot of time. Don't sweat the small stuff.
I'm in TX as well by the way! I'm in Dallas, but could road trip it to S/A with some notice. Shame we can't message each other!
AS,
When is good for you? We can provide dates and a location and time to meet up. We can also provide what would be wearing.
AS,
Also TxHubby said he would be down to go as well.
I'm in Houston and could possibly meet up.
Holding,
Sounds like we are shaping up to have a date.
What date works for you AS and TxHubby? Sending up a flare.
It most likely will be a Saturday seeing that AS has to travel from Dallas and Holding has to travel from Houston.
I think you had asked about helping with house chores. First of all, does she have a full time employment of 40 hrs or more a week? If so, then, absolutely you should share equally in the evening chores. Three kids and a one-year old.......yes. If she doesn't work outside of the home, my personal opinion is that you focus on managing the boys. Oversee homework, baths, taking them to activities, etc. In fact, you could have the oldest three boys taking different nights assisting you in cleaning up the kitchen. You'd be surprised how that presents opportunity for one on one conversations with your child. Here's the thing........don't do all the work, and don't any of it to score brownie points with her. ( I don't know why housework is the first thing men think of doing as mending the MR). If you didn't do it before the bomb was dropped.......then it's not going to cause miracles now. Okay, I'm taking up too much time on this subject........so, moving right along........
Have you taken time for self evaluation? Have you thought about the things I suggested? I realize you want to save your M, and the applications we will be suggesting may be totally opposite to what you feel you should be doing. Most every newcomer struggles with their emotions, so FWIW, you are in great company.
Beginning right now, you need to think of you and your WW as two separate entities. Your W has brought a third party into the MR........and that never works. You cannot control anyone but yourself, therefore, take your attention off your WW.......and the OM.
She has expressed enough about her feelings toward you and the OM to let you know she no longer wants to continue in this MR. Therefore, that frees you from any type of wife management that you may have previously considered. You are not responsible for her, and you can't manage her. That means you focus on self, and managing yourself.
You may find yourself wanting to persuade your WW to give the MR another chance. You may have moments you experience fear or even have panic attacks. You may be tempted to write a long letter, apologizing to her for everything you can think of.......and even taking responsibility for her affair. You may want to tell her that you will always love her......no matter what she's done. You may want to tell her you will always be there for her; forgive her, repeat how you don't want a divorce; offer to go to MC; express how much you love and need her; etc. You may tear up at times. You may follow her around the house, you may try to please her. You may want to plead with her and make her promises. You may go home, put on your Super Husband cape, and treat her like royalty.......while you jump around putting out fires. You may feel sad and unhappy. My point here is that these are all examples of something that is self manageable. Some things like panic attacks, sleep deprivation, depression, etc. may need to be treated by a doctor.......but it's still you managing your side of the street in this sh't storm. It's your responsibility to manage Joe. It is not your W's responsibility to manage Joe.
What about your WW? She's unhappy; complains; doesn't want to act like a married wife and mother of four; wants to explore other options; wants space; gets angry; cold; has problems; has debts; picks fights;......... yada, yada, yada. Whose responsibility do these things fall under? A lot of men try to manage their W, and you can tell when reading their threads. A lot of men try to fix their W. You cannot control her or fix her......and you should not rescue her.
So what can you do? Here are a handful of things to get you started.
1). Emotionally detach from her. Physically detach as much as you can.
2). Let her go, emotionally.
3). Be less available.
4). Set personal goals.
5). GAL. Fill your calendar with activities you enjoy.
6). Don't try to fix her, please her, or rescue her.
I have to end here. May be gone over the weekend, but don' t think I have forsaken you.
Sandi2,
I know you havent forsaken me. You are saving me. I haven't cried over this situation. Not yet anyways. I haven't written a letter to her since June. I not trying to save her anymore. I did have confusion on the amount of house work I should be doing. But you have gave me more tinsight. I'm growing more everyday.
I'm GALing as much as I possibly can and still spend time with my boys.
I'm going ziplinning this Satuday.
The wife said she needs to talk after the kids go to sleep. Oh boy. Lets see what this is about. Joseph9, this might be over that text.
So after W said she wanted to talk, she went upstairs to do Zumba. I put my boys to bed and when she finished I went to Walmart to get some items. I thought she was going to hit me up about the talk after I got back but she didn't and I didn't approach her about it either. I just got in the bed and went to sleep. I don't feel a need to chase behind a conversation she wants to talk about.
What was also funny was right after she told me she wanted to talk, she told me she was dropped from her classes and them she asked me did I take away my benefits. I told her no. She is always seeing my in this negative light. Maybe that's what she wanted to talk about I don't know. And If she doesn't approach me I won't find out.
Nah, you will be ok and you did good! Don't chase and if she wants to talk bad enough she will approach you.
Joseph9,
You live in Texas as well, where?
Yeah I did ok, I got a little curious and check her phone, she didn't see me, but woke up as I was walking off. That is my last step and detaching, not worrying about that phone. I don't check phone records no more or follow her around the house. I need to leave that phone alone.
If we can all meet up, it would be AS, TxHubby, and Holding would be an awesome day for us all.
I'm on my way home. Let see if wife brings up a talk. I will be holding strong.
So,
Last night my wife started talking to me. One of the things she said was she had the words to tell me what she needed the day before but didn't have them yesterday.
Then she started making accusations. She start saying things like I know I disrespected you, and now you are trying to get back at me with all this going out. I just ignored it.
I'm going to Austin today to go ziplinning. And I'm leaving early in the morning. She was asking why are you leaving so early. I just said I have things to do. I'm staying the night in Austin I told her I would be back on Sunday. I havent seen her act jeaulous in a while. I was texting my man's about today and she was shaking.
I asked her to shave my back and she was making statements like why would I shave your back so you can( and then she would say the rest under her breath).
joejoe,
Good you need to keep it up. Eventually she'll figure out that in order to be able to do these things with you or at least slow you down. Is to get back on track with the MR and kick ON to the curb. You are doing far better than most this soon.
She said something eles that was weird. She said, "I get it, I disrespected you, now you disrespecting me, and it don't feel good.".
I didn't tell her where I was going or what I was doing. So on her own assumptions, she thanks I'm out doing something with another woman.
This confuses me, she said she didn't want to be in the marriage, why would anything I do disrespect her?
Don't pay attention to stuff like that. The best you can do is validate her feelings - "I am sorry to hear that you're feeling this way" and leave it at that.
My W did things like that and in my head I was like - you asked for this separation, and this is what that means. It's just reality starting to snap in their faces and they don't like it.
Don't let it bother you.
I didn't validate her. Next time I just didnt pay attention to it. I think a little reality is setting in.
Joe,
when I started spending less time with w and talking and texting, she started to get suspicious and I caught her snooping on me! Seems like a common response to detachment and GAL.
The disrespecting part is so rich. Suddenly they don't have access to you the way they did, and you're not moping around on the floor grovelling at their feet - that is not what they expected.
Also, now you're not around as much and so you can't be the source of all their troubles and they have to deal with that reality - which is definitely not nice because they can't blame you and because you're DBing, they can't take it out on you cuz you're not fighting or arguing with them. They will try all that and see that when you don't flinch, it's something about themselves.
I found it ironic as well. She is upset and being mad because she thinks I'm out with a woman. Her own guilt is controlling her thoughts. I never told her where I was going and with who. I'm out with my a male friend ziplinning and enjoying Austin.
This is how crazy the world is.
If my wife asked what I did for this weekend, do I tell her or just tell her I had an awesome time.
"I just went out with a friend"
Jim1234,
Thanks for the answer.
Tell W that you went out with a friend and had an awesome time.
I'm in Austin, would love to join a get together.
Jdub,
Lets do it. I'm getting ready to head out. Lets meet up.
JDub,
Come out. Meet me downtown.
Thanks for the stop over on my thread. Sounds like your making all the right moves right now. Enjoy your night out and keep the GAL going.
Nrthman,
Yeah, I hope I am. I will stay on the same track. I hope she snaps out of it. But all we can do is worry about ourselves.
Aargh. With my D tonight, can't drop it. Let's plan it though.
Ok, how do you want to do this? Lets GAL.
So last night was another wake up call for me. I now know I wont be going out like I'm 22. It was active downtown Austin on 6th Street but that's not my screen scene anymore. I talked to a few women, it was cool bit I could tell I was talking out of some type of retaliation. I didn't like how I felt when I woke up this morning.
My wife talked to the OM yesterday. I'm saying because how she talked to him. She called him on the house phone. She knows I check the house phone and it seems to me she's trying to stir me up. She is careful how she talks to him. I almost went to talk to her about it. Then I read what Jack2beans wrote.
She thought I was out with another woman, maybe she's is trying to get me upset. I'm going to ignore and enjoy my day.
Staying strong. I wont react.
Has anybody else experience a situation like this.
Or should I address this situation above?
Don't act on retaliation because I'm a firm believer that attaching to an EA is really dangerous for the LBS in this situation and they won't notice as easily if their W started to shift towards recon because the brain chemistry makes people "blind" in limerance. At least be REALLY sure you are not talking to opposite sex about your issues because receiving emotional support is really addictive and feels good.
If you feel she tries to stir you up, she is most likely testing you. She NEEDS to feel that you are still attached and she still has control over you. Don't mind anything what she is doing and continue your journey on DBing!
I'm thinking about dropping the D papers. I'm feeling disrespected and taken for granted.
I'm a little lost on how to navigate this situation from here.
I'm thinking about dropping the D papers. I'm feeling disrespected and taken for granted.
I'm a little lost on how to navigate this situation from here.
Joejoe
I read over your thread and seems to me you have not been here very long (by DB standards. I know it feels like a century for you).
I see that many of the things you have done so far are about getting a reaction from your w. That's not going to help and it's actually pretty manipulative. And usually it's obvious to the WAS who sees it as more pressure from you.
Do not file for divorce to get a reaction. It's like marital Russian roulette.
There are ways to move forward and let her do the work for a divorce if that is what
she wants.
How are your GAL activities? (San Antonio has a lot of GAL possibilities. We lived there 7 years and it's a great place for families). Part of GAL is to distract you from constantly obsessing and part of it is to help you grow as a man. And to help you with GAL.
Maybe you can let go of the need for certainty now, until you are more consistent.
Can you tell us what
specific changes you are working on that you yourself wanted to work on?
I'm hazy on ^^that, and I'm also hazy on whether your w is merely writing to her old bf or actively seeing him, etc. Do you know? What prior relationship with OW is your w referring to? Was that resolved?
And you guys have 4 sons in the house, 2 of whom are your bio kids. And the other 2 are whose?
I'm just trying to get a clearer picture.
Hang in there.
25,
We have 4 boys all together. She had a son coming into the marriage and I had a son coming into the marriage. My son lives in New Orleans. And he spends the entire summer and holidays with us.
I have been doing a lot of GALing. But I think you are right that maybe I have been doing a bit of it to get a reaction out of her.
I have grown spiritually. I have joined a church I have went to church consistently the last 5 or 6 weeks. I have lost 36 pounds and counting. I went ziplinning yesterday, I have bungee jumpimg and skydiving lined up in the next fee weeks.
I guess what gets me most is how she walks around mean and stand off ish all the time. It pisses me off.
The OM lives in Maryland and she slept with him in July. It's an old boyfriend from HS, who she says she never got over. She has been having feelings for him since they broke up in HS.
This woman my wife is talking about is an old GF I happen to run across in AZ. I didnt go seeker her out. Once I saw her I realized I didn't have any feelings for her. I told my wife that story now she tries to use it as a bases for, "see you got a chance to figure out about an old GF".
So after I slept on my feelings and reading what 25 had to tell me, I noticed that I haven't detached look I should have. I haven't given detachment it's full time and due process.
I realize like 25 said that I was worried about W reaction to what I was doing.
Now I realize that I have to forget about what she thinks or does. I have to do this for myself and enter a world that she isn't present.
Onward and Upward.
I asked my wife not to the OM on our house phone, she did it again today. Should this be a boundary, now what consequence can I give for her doing this. The other thing is, it's me snooping. Is this a boundary, or me trying to control?
Also I was thinking about taking back control of all the finances, my wife has been paying the bills and dividing the money up. Should I take this part of our life back?
I asked my wife not to the OM on our house phone, she did it again today. Should this be a boundary, now what consequence can I give for her doing this. The other thing is, it's me snooping. Is this a boundary, or me trying to control?
Absolutely it should a boundary and you should not tolerate it. Cancel the phone service as a consequence. Ask her to leave.
I would stop snooping if I were you. She has an OM it's confirmed. Why put yourself through the torture.
joe,
I don't normally post, but I have to explain boundaries to you:
When you set a boundary, it is for YOU, not for HER.
You CANNOT tell her what she can and can't do, you can only decide how to respond to her actions.
So when you set a boundary, it's about setting it up to protect you, not to control her or her actions.
Ex. WW spewing at you is a boundary that you can set. You can tell WW that you will not listen to her berate you, yell, etc. and if she does that there is a natural consequence-most likely, you walk away, don't respond to text, etc.
You cannot tell her who she can call, or where she can call from.
If she's doing that to try to get to you, BTW, it's working. You need to pretend like it doesn't phase you at all.
Here's an example of a boundary you can set and could've set when she gave you that talk about "disrespect."
WW: joe, I know I disrespected you and that's why you're doing this to me.
joe: WW, I'm just living my life. As long as you're still in an active A (contacting OM), what I do is none of your business. I'm going to go now.
--and you end it there. You walk away after that, because you've set your boundary and told her that she doesn't get to discuss R with you until she's serious.
So she STILL has the choice to contact OM. It might still bother you; there's nothing you can do about it, but you've set up a boundary to protect you.
You've is set a clear boundary: no R talk until NC with OM.
If she wants to talk R, she knows what she has to do.
I'm telling you this right now: It may never happen. She might never get it, but you are protecting yourself with the boundary.
This make a little more sense?
As far as finances, you can't "take back control." what you should be doing is establishing control over your OWN finances.
ie. setting up an individual account in your name. If you can do a direct deposit into your account, that's best.
If you know what monthly bills are, you can continue to let her pay them and write her a check from your personal account.
you don't tell her anything until she asks. IF you bring it up first, it looks like you're being vindictive.
She'll ask, trust me! Especially if she's the one paying the bills.
when she does, you say
"WW, I'm unsure of what our future looks like, and I'm preparing myself for the reality that our household may dissolve. If you can get me copies of the bills from now on, as long as we're both living here, I'll gladly write a check to cover my portion of the expenses."
Again, this a boundary to protect YOU. You don't want all that responsibility, you want to protect yourself financially and emotionally.
This is why we call it detaching. You are separating yourself from the sitch. all this is right now is a business transaction- the business being the household expenses.
There is no R, no R talk until OM is gone.
This is going to be eating away at you until you can actually detach, but you have to "fake it 'till you make it."
If she ever gets to the point of wanting that R talk again, you need to remember
Believe nothing she says and only half of what she does.
If you let her in too soon, you show your hand. You have to detach.
Mowgli,
So let me ask you, she has access to all my accounts. Do I take her off of them?
I disagree. He specifically ask her to not contact OM on the home phone. That's very disrespectful and he needs to set some boundaries.
Holding,
Sounds like we are shaping up to have a date.
What date works for you AS and TxHubby? Sending up a flare.
It most likely will be a Saturday seeing that AS has to travel from Dallas and Holding has to travel from Houston.
Sorry about that, I got busy at work last week and had to drop off the forums a bit. This is a bad time of year for me to make a weekend trip but when the weather gets colder maybe I can join y'all!
So let me ask you, she has access to all my accounts. Do I take her off of them?
Are the accounts joint or are you primary on them? If they are joint then you may not be able to remove her without her involvement. When my XW and I went about the business of getting her off of our mutual accounts and such, we had to make a bunch of phone calls with both of us on the line because typically both parties have to give permission for the change. But if you're primary and she just has access then I think you can do it yourself.
Some people here are dealing with spouses that drain accounts and rack up CC debt with no warning, clearly if your W is like that you may want to quietly change things if you can. But others (like my XW) are more reasonable and if your W is more like that then it's something the two of you should sit down and discuss before making the transition.
joe,
are they joint accounts?
leave them joint.
open a new checking account and direct deposit into that.
It can't look vindictive. Removing her feels a lot like taking a cell phone away from a grounded teenager, in the same way that cutting off the phone bill seems reactionary and punishing.
You need to make it about you stepping away and less about you trying to "control."
is she a SAHM, or is she gainfully employed?
I ask not because it changes the way I'd approach it, but it changes the message.
It goes from "I'm doing my own thing and taking responsibility for my own finances" which is the message you send to a spouse with a job,
to "you need to start figuring out what you're going to do after we D, because it's not stay at home."
That's what D will look like, right? you'll be doing your thing, and she'll be doing hers.
In no way have you prevented her access to accounts she previously could access, or have been punitive in any way; you're simply "taking your ball and going home."
She can't hold it over you as being controlling then, because you're not. You're doing what's best for you: Setting personal boundaries to protect yourself.
Not his boundary to set, man. He can't control who she talks to.
Are you kidding me with this?
Your right she can talk to her all she wants just not on the phone in the martial home. It's very disrespectful.
Especially if he pays for it.
How does he protect that boundary?
I'm not disagreeing that it's disrespectful, but its not an enforceable boundary, and definitely not how you show that you're detaching.
joe can't let himself get worked up over that because that's what she wants.
it's typical passive aggressive BS and he needs to be able to ignore it.
joe, see AS's advice above as well.
I can tell you right now, though, that I've been here long enough and read enough sitches to know that trying to control WW's actions never, ever works.
They are in full rebellion, and it only pushes them further into that realm of thinking.
It's not P/A if you calming state your boundary. How he enforces is up to him to determine.
The problem is he can't enforce the phone boundary without snooping.
This has turn out to be a great discussion.
I think both sides has great points. But I ultimately I messed this boundary up. I think holding is right. I will have to snoop to enfore this boundary. That's not detaching. I don't care what she does anymore. Shes a cheater. And cheaters will lie and finds ways to be sneaky no matter how much I take away from her. I moving on emotionally and mentality. If I'm focus on her, I'm taking focus off myself. I'm done chasing her trying to figure out what she is doing.
I like the opening another account and taking my ball and going home. She is a SAHM.
Oh that boundary is irrational. I need to analyze and set more meaning for boundaries for me. That boundary was for her. "I told her if she calls him again on our house phone. That doesn't affect me." I'm getting my plan in place.
I have been becoming stronger and more confident. Life is going to be ok either way. But I'm not letting this relationship end with her seeing me unhappy and not the best me. There will be doubt in her mind when this is over. It's all about me and my boys now.
The account situation can get very tricky. No matter how delicately you handle it, your W might still take it as a personal assault and effort to punish her. Especially since she's a SAHM. And it will be seen as a lack of trust, no matter what you say.
How will she be able to pay for household items if there's no money going into the shared account from your paycheck?
You could possibly set up a separate account for yourself, have your paycheck deposited there, and then transfer a portion to the joint checking account so she has access to something.
My STBXW and I had a big blow up over finances and how to split things. Now this is with a woman who has a job and was withdrawing hundreds of dollars without telling me the reason. But I was the bad guy because I limited her access to MY banking login, when she had her own banking login that she could use to access the same account.
Anyway ... tread carefully. Legal advice couldn't hurt at this point.
Legal advice couldn't hurt at this point.
I'm being a little hypocritical here, but once my business was able to pay me a paycheck, I carved out about 20% per pay period via direct deposit and put it into a new account that was solely in my name, where W couldn't access it. I did this because she kept casually playing the D card, and I wanted to protect myself just in case. And if things work out we'll have some extra money for the kids college fund or something.
But, my IC did caution me to talk with a lawyer about this, which I have not done.
Legal advice couldn't hurt at this point.
I'm being a little hypocritical here, but once my business was able to pay me a paycheck, I carved out about 20% per pay period via direct deposit and put it into a new account that was solely in my name, where W couldn't access it. I did this because she kept casually playing the D card, and I wanted to protect myself just in case. And if things work out we'll have some extra money for the kids college fund or something.
But, my
IC did caution me to talk with a lawyer about this, which I have not done.
why not? A L is not going to tell on you but will give you what the parameters are.
knowledge is power - and you only have to pay either nothing for a free consult or a one hour fee.
In other words, No downside
Do discuss but mine told me I could set $$ aside as long as I disclosure it when push comes to shove.
I have already seemed out a lawyer. I will call an ask about this direct deposit and account situation.
So I have a story to tell. It's an ironic. Today in the life of Joejoe1 his WW has that audacity to tell him he has an attitude. She kept looking at me funny and finally asked "what's wrong with you". Then she saids I know I have been having an attitude but you have attitude as well.
Now let me tell y'all I dont have an attitude I'm just not all up her butt. I'm nowhere she is. Now this is the same woman calling the OM on our house phone yesterday. The logic of WW wife's are hilarious.
Shes probing. I'm moving forward. She can keep trying to figure me out. Because I'm done trying to figure her out.
She can keep trying to figure me out. Because I'm done trying to figure her out.
That's the ticket!
Check this out. So I go downstairs to get my baby some diapers and some milk. She's talking to me, then she asked me do I want to taste her brussels sprouts. I said yeah, tasted it told her thank you and went upstairs. She barely told me to words yesterday and today, she emails me, calls me and wanted to hold a conversation. My spider senses are up. No you don't WW. Knowledge is power.
and you only have to pay either nothing for a free consult or a one hour fee
True, but I want to have a slew of questions and some mental clarity lined up before I engage in that discussion. The bank account is a 5-minute portion of a 60-minute freebie, and I don't want to waste anyone's time.
W is all over the map regarding what she wants, and because M is what I want, I'm not sure I'm ready to walk through that lawyer door just yet.
I think my brain is getting whiplash trying to track where things are going.
JDub,
I feel you on taking that giant D step. It's hard but it has to be an option. I'm not saying make that decision before you are ready, but be ready to make it when it's time.
It's hard but it has to be an option.
Well, let's be fair, it's always an option. We always have an option to walk away at any time, that's the way it works.
W is going from "we are done/over/finished" blame rage last week to very warm, communicative, and wanting to spend time together this week. She even kicked around the idea of us opening up a fitness franchise together yesterday. I have no idea how to read any of this, and if I ask, it becomes R talk which usually sets things flailing in the wrong direction.
I'm not sure a conversation with an L will offer clarity or will be a waste of time.
She's going to teeter back and forth. When she does that stuff, sometimes it's temp checking. If it happens after you've been especially aloof, that is almost always what it is. She's trying to feel you out.
When she talks about a fitness franchise, what she's really asking is "would you want to be around me for that?" if she knows the answer is "yes," she knows she's safe and can table you for later.
Guaranteed, if you engage in those convos and seem interested, she'll run the other way.
So until she proves to you she's interested in an R by directly stating it, agreeing to full transparency, and starts demonstrating with real action that she is remorseful and that a new R is what she wants (who would want to go back to the old one?), all of that is just temp-checking fluff.
Don't let her lure you into a false sense of security. You keep doing what you're doing (seems like its working) and when/if she's ready, she'll sit down and open up the R discussions.
In fact, next time she starts bringing up all this spending time together, I'd really try to squeeze her on it. Never just jump to doing those things; make her work for your time.
Say something like "I've already made plans with someone that day, how about x?" It will show her that you are your top priority.
or when she talks about future plans, that's a perfect time for a truth dart.
like I said before, it might really hurt to do that because you're not fully detached, but you need to fake it 'till you make it.
sorry, Jdub. I saw the "j" and thought it was joe.
I was applying your words to his sitch and got messed up.
Mowgli,
The answer you provided was for JDub situation. You were right.
Sandi2 and TxHubby,
I have a question, TxHubby how did you handle the finances while you were GALing?
Sandi2, what is your opinion on finances?
JoeJoe, not sure if you're still planning a meetup for the TX folks, but the weekend of the 23rd and 24th would be perfect for me.
Holding,
Yeah, that date would be awesome for me. I'm free then. We have to send shout out to the rest of the folks. I think we could have some great discussions.
I saw you request that I pop in and comment on your sitch.
I want to make it clear that I am not an expert on situations in which there is an OM, so I'm not going to advise on how to handle that part.
Here are the things that jumped out at me:
1. You are super impatient. I can sympathize, but if you want to give your marriage the best chance of making it, you have to learn to give things time.
2. You seem very focused on what individual actions "mean." Your spouse is confused. Things won't make sense. And not every action or mood is directly related to you or even to the situation.
3. In an early post, you mentioned some pretty serious issues, and it seems like you agree with your wife's assessment. You said you were a know it all and people don't like to be around you, including your kids. That you are harsh. And yet, we've seen almost nothing about how you are trying to fix those issues.
I'd like to see your posts focus less on your wife and what she is doing, or thinking, or how she will react to X, or what Y means, and a lot more about how you are meeting with an IC to work through your issues, specific examples of changing the way you respond to your kids and others in your life, and what activities you are doing with your kids to start building a better relationship with them.
Those are things you can control. Those are the most significant 180s you can do, but changing a trait like this is hard. Let us support you in that.
Oh, and a note about GAL. It's important. Critical. But if you are just assuming you can leave the house without notice and your wife will watch the kids, you're being kind of a jerk.
1. You are super impatient. I can sympathize, but if you want to give your marriage the best chance of making it, you have to learn to give things time.
I 100% agree, I have been working on this hard. I don't badger my wife anymore. It has been over a week since I have talked to my wife about the M or R. I haven't initiated really any conversations in over a week. I slowly started to realize that those conversations were making her shut down and move further away from me.
I'm very impatient and being in the Army doesn't help that much. But I have learned to slow down and live in the moment and not days and weeks ahead. I really loving the feeling.
"2. You seem very focused on what individual actions "mean." Your spouse is confused. Things won't make sense. And not every action or mood is directly related to you or even to the situation."
It took me a while to understand this. I now don't pay much attention to her mood. Up until this past week I would ask what's was wrong. Before then I would ask why you are acting like that towards me. But now I have just stop asking. I go about my merry way. Last Thursday she told me she wanted to talk to me after the boys went to bed. I help put them to bed then went to Walmart, she didn't approach me about that night, so I didn't ask. The next day she told me, she wanted to talk and she told me, she told me the words she had the before escaped her today, I said, "what were the words yesterday", and she said, "really". I shut up and went about my way.
"I'd like to see your posts focus less on your wife and what she is doing, or thinking, or how she will react to X, or what Y means, and a lot more about how you are meeting with an IC to work through your issues, specific examples of changing the way you respond to your kids and others in your life, and what activities you are doing with your kids to start building a better relationship with them."
So, I have started reading to my middle son. I bought books for me and my S9 to read together then discuss afterward. I still need to do things with them outside the house. I have planned a trip to the zoo this weekend, and S9, I going to get him to help me with putting up a ceiling fan.
I have seen a few ICs. But I currently not seeing one. I have a DB coach. I figured out early on that I was very pessimistic and had to turn that outlook around, I always envied my wife for that, and I now knew it was time for me to take action on that.
I also have now started helping out around the house more, without being told. I did gripe or complain about it, or expect anything in return, I did it without conditions or expectations.
Those are things you can control. Those are the most significant 180s you can do, but changing a trait like this is hard. Let us support you in that."
Yes it is very hard. I have made a word document of all the positive and helpful things, I have been told on the Forum and all the DB info.
I have really changed a lot since DB. My wife told me one day, that she see changes and I'm helping out more, but she did it for seven years and I have did it for a few months so don't expect me the change the way I feel.
[/quote]Oh, and a note about GAL. It's important. Critical. But if you are just assuming you can leave the house without notice and your wife will watch the kids, you're being kind of a jerk.[/quote]
I have been informing my wife that I'm about to leave before I go and do any GAL. I think I can incorporate asking her if she has any plans instead of telling her I have plans at such and such time and I will be back.
My wife is still in the home, hasn't brought up D once. She once told me after an argument, that if I had D papers in front of her she would of signed them. That was over a month ago.
So what's the story with the OM? Is he still in the picture?
I have heard that in-house separation is brutal and really makes it hard to detach. It is a process though and is going to take some time. I have finally got to the point to where I can sleep at night and am not always wondering what she is doing. It would be brutal if I still lived with her and had to see her daily.
J9,
He still in the picture. She talks to him all the time. She tries her hardest to hide it. I have mostly stop snooping. I check the house phone yesterday, but I'm done doing that.
I think it's better for her to be at the home. She can see me getting better and happy. I can also monitor my impact.
Yesterday I didn't get home to almost 9 oclock. I went on a hike with Meetup.com. It was a 2 hour hike around 4 miles. When I get home, I give her, her space, I say hi and got about my business. I don't badger her or follow her around. I sleep at night. This morning was the first morning in a while where I had bad thoughts. 20 mins before I woke up I start having crazy thoughts. I really think it was the devil attacking me. I got on my knees and prayed.
Tonight, I have a New Comers brief at church. I also have stones coming, because I building an outdoor fire pit in the back yard. It's something the wife wanted, but I got really intrigue and wanted to see if I can do it.
I can confirm that in-house separation is really tough. The tension in the house is really bad at times. Sometimes I just need to go to the MBR (she's in a separate bedroom now) to get some space.
Joe - detachment is super hard in general, but even more so if the situation is in-house separation. The only sitch I have come across where that worked was TxHubby - and he went nuclear with his DBing which I see as the only real option in the in house thing.
Holding,
At first it was really tough, over the last few days I have gotten to a point where, what she does isn't affecting me. I smile and I don't argue. Whatever she decides to do I can't control. The only thing i'm struggling with at this point is not being a jerk, or coming off as a jerk when I communicate with her. I'm working on detaching with love.
I have mostly stop snooping. I check the house phone yesterday, but I'm done doing that.
When I stopped snooping it helped with detaching.
I think it's better for her to be at the home. She can see me getting better and happy. I can also monitor my impact.
I think the advice you would get on this board would be different but ultimately it is your sitch.
Earlier you asked about finances. When my W moved out I took her checkbook to our joint account and our 1 credit card. She also opened up her own checking account and her checks re-directed to be auto-deposited there. Once she got access to her own money I removed her name from our joint checking account and I sent her an email to advice.
Before she moved out we also discussed who would pay for what. I did not come across this board until after she moved out if I had I probably would have done a couple of things different. She pays for her rent, living expenses and utilities at her apartment. She also is responsible for any debt or anything else she purchases for the apartment. She also pays for her own cell-bill.
J9,
I talked to a lawyer today about our financial situation. I talked to her about the D process and what I can expect as for as fees and what I will and won't get. I need to be knowledgeable on this process. She told I need to be careful because some judges frown upon a spouse controlling money or seeming to control the money or use it in a vindictive way. And If I do it wrong my WW can argue that point in court if it goes that far. Or even if we get a D.
Just covering my basis.
I agree.....what I have been struggling with lately is what to deny her access on. For example, if she wants to file about doesn't have the money because it is tied up in an account she doesn't know how to access to I give her access? I always controlled all of our finances so she really knows nothing.
I know most everyone says don't finance anything but to your point I think it is a slippery slope.
I will say I have not been vindictive about anything and everything that has happened so far she has agreed to. We sat down together before she moved out and put budgets together for both of us.
I also know she is feeling the financial pinch because she came to me last week asking for money.
J9,
Did you give her the money? Was it her fault for mismanaging her finances or did she really have a problem that you had to help out with?
I think the finances is a big deal, but must dealt with in a delicate process. My wife is a SAHM, and I can see a judge going in on me. A soldier, 6'3 215 pounds and my wife showing him how I took the money to control her. I have to be smart in this area.
She said something eles that was weird. She said, "I get it, I disrespected you, now you disrespecting me, and it don't feel good.".
I didn't tell her where I was going or what I was doing. So on her own assumptions, she thanks I'm out doing something with another woman.
This confuses me, she said she didn't want to be in the marriage, why would anything I do disrespect her?
She does not want you for a H, but she wants what you can provide for her. A few examples are wanting you to be available to do whatever she may need at any particular time. She may use you for a maintenance worker for whatever needs repaired or fixed (even if she gets another place to live); vehicle maintenance; run errands for her; keep the children on her scheduled days to have them; act as a listener (counselor) and to comfort her; and any financial benefits she can get from you, be her BFF, etc.
She does not want to be in a MR with you, but she expects to receive
benefits the M would provide. She does not want to be your W. However, she does not want another woman to replace her position in your heart. Everything is about "her". The WW thinks her H will forever pine away for her. Therefore, if she sees her H moving on in his life and being happy without her........the jealousy comes out. She doesn't want her H, but she doesn't want anyone else to have him. She asks questions about where he is going, when, and with whom. Although she wants privacy in
her life......she will ask nosy questions about her H's GAL. She loses certain rights and privileges she had as your wife........and knowing details about your GAL, is one of them.
I did, she had our kids that week and had no way to pay for groceries. It was her fault for mis-managing her money.
I agree it is a delicate process, I make more than double what she makes. I know what the general advice however I try to think big picture about what it will look like in the long run if we get D and does that take a amicable situation and turn it ugly which costs me more in L fees in the long run.
Some of this stuff is not black and white.
Sandi2,
Hmmmmmmmm..... She don't won't nobody else to have me. Well, her lost right. I'm GALing and detaching.
Please start a new thread
Maybe I''m biased (M!??)
but as a L, it baffles me why someone would resist getting free information about the biggest financial transaction of their life
WHILE their spouse is in their face discussing financial and legal matters and probing for information fro them.
Sure, jot down some notes for questions but you need to arm yourself asap.
This is not you filing for divorce, it's not a "Step" in that direction. It's you asking questions about what you risk by various paths and how you can protect yourself while not pushing for a divorce.
It can be very empowering to learn what your options are, (choosing to stay married Not out of fear, for instance)
and it can be a guide for seeing red flags faster, when your emotions don't want to see certain things.
Hang in there
It took me a while to understand this. I now don't pay much attention to her mood. Up until this past week I would ask what's was wrong. Before then I would ask why you are acting like that towards me. But now I have just stop asking.
Oh wow. OK well I'm going to dissect this to try and help you understand how you can improve your communications:
I now don't pay much attention to her mood
Ignoring her mood is probably "more of the same" behavior for you, I imagine there was a lot of emotional neglect in the M like in most of our sitches.
Up until this past week I would ask what's was wrong.
Asking her (or anyone) "what's wrong" is not how you open up with communications. More often than not that makes the other person shut down, because you are implying that there is something wrong with them and their feelings. A better approach is to say something like "you don't seem like your normal self today, how are you feeling?" Most of the time when loved ones are sullen it's because they WANT to tell us something. So we have to pave the way for them to tell us without them feeling like we're going to judge them for it. LISTEN and VALIDATE should be the mantra of every LBS.
Before then I would ask why you are acting like that towards me.
Well I'm glad you stopped that because that is a terrible thing to say to someone. She's feeling down and you make it all about yourself. Her moods are hers, they are not "right" or "wrong" they are just her moods. You should seek to understand them and acknowledge them. That is validation, and that will make her feel more connected to you, make her feel you understand her and care about her.
But now I have just stop asking.
This "I'm going to ignore my W until she starts loving me again" approach never, ever works. It seems like I'm reading more of this here on the forum lately, I'm not sure where it's coming from but it is NOT DB'ing. The word "LOVINGLY" should always be used in front of "DETACH". That means you give her time and space, but when it's appropriate you offer her emotional support too. It doesn't mean you share your feelings with her, but it does mean encouraging her to share hers with you.
AS,
To be honest, I think there is a little conflict on the detaching piece. So I have a misunderstanding of when I should interact with my wife. When reading the detachment information, it says don't initiate conversations.
Then reading Sandi2 thread, it says, wife is not looking for love. So how do we loving detach and show that we care. If our S are to believe they are losing us, aren't they to believe that our love is fleeing as well?
Hey Joejoe,
I too, wanted to save the marriage so bad but no matter what I did, detaching, hoping, blah blah blah, my spouse didn't seem to care. I started reading archives from chumplady.com and it put a whole new perspective on things. It made me realize that my soon to be ex husband is a narcissist. If it's meant to be, it should be on your terms and genuine. We humans are just specks on this universe so don't waste your time trying to reconcile with someone who doesn't truly love you back. As a former Marine, integrity and moral values are the criterias of a person's character. I wish there was a nationwide meetup for LBS to give support and have fun. Just my 2 cents
AS,
To be honest, I think there is a little conflict on the detaching piece. So I have a misunderstanding of when I should interact with my wife. When reading the detachment information, it says don't initiate conversations.
Then reading Sandi2 thread, it says, wife is not looking for love. So how do we loving detach and show that we care. If our S are to believe they are losing us, aren't they to believe that our love is fleeing as well?
I'm struggling with this as well. Especially when there's an OM. I'm going to only support her emotionally if it is bloody obvious she's feeling down because I don't want to misinterpret situations. Technically do it the same way as you would do to your neighbor, not in the same level as if she'd be your spouse.
I don't think validation is that common in our culture anyways but I can see how it could make things better.
sophene,
I want to save my marriage, but I'm getting to the point where I see every outcome as an option. My W doesn't hold to key to my happiness no more. The biggest problem I have at this point is know how to detach with love. I think I'm being a jerk in some moments and showing unloving interactions in others.
My wife is losing me slowly. If she wants to reconcile, fine, but I'm not chasing, or pursing her no more. I have started to enjoy myself GALing, and meeting new people.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2761382#Post2761382