Hi All,
So, I have been married 16 years and with my wife for 20 years. We have 4 young kids (9, 7, 5, 1).
We moved to the US last year. I got a great job, we live in a pretty low cost area, so could afford a nice big house and could even afford to put the kids in public school.
My wife even found an entire community of people here from her country in her language. She told me often how this was paradise and she loved living here.
We did argue over the year - same arguments that escalated and I definitely said a number of things that I deeply regret.
My family went back abroad (over 10,000 miles away) for the summer holidays, I joined for a bit, but had to come back to work.
We had an argument over the phone and, during that, my wife told me that she didn't want to come back to the US but also wanted out of the marriage in no uncertain terms. I was in complete shock and in turmoil.
We had had a breakdown in our marriage about 12 years ago where she also told me the "I love but not in love with you" and left the house. That is where I first learnt about DB'ing. We saved the marriage that time.
Sadly, I obviously haven't been practicing it well for the past few years as life and kids have taken over.
Anyway, we have numerous phone conversations over the next 10 days (all initiated by her) where she basically just laid into me and blamed for all of the wrongs in the marriage, giving examples going back 12 years. I listened to all of them (a good number were justified for sure), it was painful, but I listened and then apologized from the bottom of my heart for hurting her and told her that she is the most wonderful mother in the world to our 4 kids.
Eventually, I was able to convince to come back to the US. She arrived back a few days ago with the kids and her mother. She doesn't mind going to therapy with me, but is clear that it is useless and that the marriage is over.
Now for the hard part that I could really use some advice on. She is insisting on moving back to her country with the kids in 4 weeks and has signed them up for school there. I have told her that if we go back there now we will face financial ruin as I don't have a job there. I also really don't want to go back there - I lived there for 20 years and it is a tough country in turmoil with alot of wars and tension.
I tried to say to her that I would agree to go back once we plan the move properly and find a place to live there and a job. Her line in the sand is the school year. So, I asked her to be here for the school year here so that we could look at this sensibly.
She is not budging at all and is insisting that it's better for the kids there (they love it here and there to be fair) and that she will go insane if she has to stay here - calling it the "golden cage".
If I do let them go back and I stay here for work, she promises to come back with them every holiday.
My dilemma is what to do. If I let her go back with my kids - firstly it will tear me apart to be away from them for so long, but also I don't see how we can work on the marriage at all (even LRT) from that distance.
But, if I "force" her into staying here, I can work on the marriage slowly, but I do think she will hate me so intensely that it won't help as I will be the focus of her anger and hate every time.
I just don't know what to do. Please help.
At the moment we are in the same house and she is talking to me incessantly about how awful I was. It's tense and horrible and I have begged her just for a cease-fire (I lost my technique here) and let's enjoy the kids together. We are sleeping in the same bed and the only minutes of warmth are holding hands for a few minutes in bed.
She also wants to tell the kids tomorrow that we are ending the marriage.
I can't use any of the techniques with this time factor in my face, advice please please.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Thanks so much Cadet.
I will go through the list.
The question is though, do I let them go when they are likely to never come back or try to get them to stay (which I think is better for the kids, but my W will be miserable), which will give me time to work on the marriage?
She wants a decision in the next day or so as she wants to tell the kids today.
Thanks,
Why why,
Sorry to hear about your sitch. You need to contact a lawyer right now. And find out rights as a father. Taking your children out of the country isn't right and you should do everything to stop that. Regardless on how your W might react.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
You need to contact a lawyer right now..
AGREED
She can go but leave the kids
You are really in a bind, and I hope things work out for you. I have no real advice, but you will find many sympathetic people on here as you go down this road.
BUT
something that struck me is you talking about "letting" her leave. It's probably just the way it was phrased, but she's an adult, and you "letting" her do things sounds very controlling, which might be part of the problem.
Thanks for the comments. My fear with getting a lawyer and blocking her is that she will then hate me with such an intensity that there will never be any chance to reconcile.
Just don't know which way to go!!!!!
Jim1234 - you are correct in how this sounded. It was badly worded - what I meant by letting her leave was allowing her to take our 4 children away from me (a long way away from me). I would never dream of stopping her and I honestly believe she would be better off there right now in her current state of mind. It's the kids that I meant and that does need my permission and it will also be the hardest thing I've ever done if I go down that road.
So - we went to therapy today with a really nice solutions focused therapist. My wife shouted in the session "I want a divorce!".
Therapist was great. Calmed everything down and asked us to do homework before the next session.
She even suggested that my wife go back and leave the kids with me and that I bring them over in a few weeks. Idea didn't get immediately discounted.
But, it does all base on the premise that they go back there, while I have to stay here for work until I can move jobs.
Then tonight, she decided that we have to tell the kids that we are separating and that they are moving country. We told the 3 older ones (9,7,5). They freaked and cried and begged us to stay together and to work it out. I was heart broken and my wife stayed completely calm, no reactions.
Afterwards, I said to her that I never expected the kids' reaction to be that extreme - she replied "Oh, I did".
Another 2 things that really annoyed me too.
1) I had asked her to have her mother (who she brought over with her and is in the house all day) please go out for this so that we can do this as a family. Of course, she was around and then after the conversation went round consoling kids! I asked my wife to get her out and my wife told me that she had asked her to go and speak to the kids!!!
2) My wife has an army of people that she texts non-stop from morning till night. I know it's her right and none of my business, but tonight it pissed me off as I felt my life was being broadcast live (though I guess I'm kind of doing the same thing here now).
Not sure what's next. It's clear they're going back and it's clear that I'm not going to object or lawyer up.
Just in pain tonight!
Guys, need some advice, I'm making alot of mistakes in the last day!
Telling the kids, their subsequent reaction and her complete lack of one has set me off kilter and I've been slipping alot!
I got angry and upset last night with her. When we went to bed, I apologized and told her that it was none of my business what she did with her text messaging, etc - just that it had been a very emotional evening.
Early in the morning our 5 and 7 years olds each came in to the room and begged us not to separate. It was so painful to hear and she just shows nothing!
So, I said to her "are you sure we can look them in the eyes and tell them that we have tried everything to fix this?" OUCH! What a mistake - I knew it as I was saying it. She, of course, looked calmly at me and told me that there was nothing to fix as it was over.
Could really use some advice and support how to get back on track and over those bad backslide.
Thanks all,
STOP talking to her -
reassure your children that you will LOVE them no matter what.
Do not get in a relationship talk with a 5 or 7 year old.
Just hug them and tell them that you love them unconditionally.
Thanks Cadet.
How do I stop talking to her? Just ignore her? We're in the same house for another couple of weeks.
It's so hard not to tell the kids the truth.
Thanks Cadet.
How do I stop talking to her? Just ignore her? We're in the same house for another couple of weeks.
It's so hard not to tell the kids the truth.
DB101 - do what works - 180 what does not.
Fake it until you make it.
You are not lying to your kids - you are just not talking about it right now.
Go back to telling them that you love them and will do your best to protect them.
Just don't talk with your W about anything relationship wise. As for the children just tell them that you love them and let them know that you will always nether for them. If he comes down to it and they really want to know. Then tell them that their mother doesn't want to be married. Never make it seem like a mutual agreement when it's not. WS need to be able to deal with the consequences of their choices.
I am trying not to talk about the relationship, she has made it very clear to me that we are done (though still going to couples therapy). But she keeps going there non-stop and I try to pull back, but then she gets hurt.
We do however have an awful lot of logistical issues to discuss and have to discuss.
Also, this morning, we had to check something on the kids' passports (which she has hidden from me to date) - after checking she said I could take them to put them away (I always used to hold onto them) - then she said no and took them away again saying that she's scared of me because other people told her to be careful and frightened her with this.
I then had a conversation with her and told her that I am reconsidering a number of the things we have talked about. She didn't take it well.
I also would love for the kids to know that this isn't a mutual decision, but not sure what's right.
OK, so after the day and seeing how hard the kids took it and also looking at the financials, I told her that it wouldn't make sense logistically or financially for her to move the kids and herself in 30 days and we quite simply can't afford it.
I told her that if she stays here for the school year, I can rent a condo and give her her space.
She cried and wouldn't agree.
I asked for a pause and told her that we should discuss it in our couples therapy session instead of arguing about it with no reasonable chance of either of us agreeing.
I am updating and hoping some of the wise on this board can give me some advice and the benefit of their experience.
So, some progress has been made. She finally looked at the numbers and heard the kids and, after a long negotiation, has decided to stay here for the academic year with the kids!!
But, it involved us drawing up a written agreement that guaranteed that we would leave the country at the end of the year, live in the same house but separate rooms and some other financial terms.
She also agreed to keep going to couples therapy until the end of the year, even though she has stated clearly that she wants a D and continues to say it.
After we signed the agreement, we discussed quietly over a coffee a few other things, especially a planned visit by her parents (remember her mother is here with us now which is really uncomfortable for me) in September. We agreed to ask her parents to delay it to the end of the year as we are in such a delicate position.
So, this morning, her mother tells me that she isn't intending to move her ticket dates and is still coming in September.
I waited a few hours to gather my thoughts and stay calm and just spoke to my wife about it. I mentioned that we had agreed yesterday mutually in our discussion about this. She got really angry with me and told me that it's because she's scared to express her true feelings around me.
She said that if I didn't like it I could go out to a hotel while they're here (over a month).
What do I do here? I think it will be really difficult having them here then and it will be tough for me.
Also, my wife is going away on Monday for 3 weeks with the baby leaving me with the other 3 kids, which I'm really happy about as the house is just so intense.
Could really use some perspective and advice here.
Thanks
Clearly your W is already breaking the agreement you came up with. You need to put your foot down and tell her that she isn't coming. Caving into the first thing will lead to you caving into other stuff. Might make you seem like an a**, but your W is putting you in this situation. And by giving in you will lose respect. You may have insist on making her parents time at the home very uncomfortable if they show up. Being passive will not get you any points. It's just going to get you a house full of people against you.
I had so many agreements with and promises from my H. He broke them all. To this day he agrees to something and then claims he didn't.
If there is tension in the household that is affecting the children, why do you want her to stay. I didn't kick mine out until my kids asked me to, and I regret not having done it earlier for their sake.
Have you sought legal advice to see if there is anything you can do to stop her from taking the children out of the country?
Do any of you have citizenship at this time?
Your W's attitude resembles a wayward woman. Has she ever had any type of inappropriate behavior with another man? Is there a family member who is encouraging her to leave?
The more you can tell us, the more replies you may receive.
Thank you all for the kinds replies.
So, will try to answer some of them, last first:
My kids and I are US citizens as well (all dual citizens) and my W is on a Green Card. I have learnt some of the legal aspects and could use them, but I really don't want to and I also know that if I do use them, my marriage is definitely over.
I tried to calm the situation last night. We went out for dinner as a family (without her mother), which I thought would be nice, though my wife sat there with a face like thunder and barely spoke all through the meal.
During the meal, I brought up trying to find a compromise with her. I offered that her parents come for 2.5 weeks instead of 5 and that we go to Disneyland (which had been previously arranged) without them for a few days in that.
She replied that she didn't think she wanted them in the house now at that time.
So, no real resolution.
But, yes, you guys are correct, I really don't want a house full of people against me so soon into this.
Right now, I'm just trying to get through to Monday evening when my W and her M and the baby fly. Just holding on tight as the atmosphere here is brutal.
My W keeps asking the kids what they think about her leaving for a few weeks and gets very upset when they reply "great" "fine", etc.
It's just so tough for me having her look at me with such disgust. But, am holding myself tough and trying to get out to the gym to get some breathing space as much as I can.
Still worried that I am handling this wrong.
@ sandi2 - forgot to reply to the second half.
So, 12 years ago, my wife and I had a (very similar) crisis and she left the house for a few months (prior to the kids). During the time she was out she had a very minor physical interaction with another man and an emotional affair (mainly text messages) with another.
It's also interesting that she has asked me on at least 5 occasions since this crisis began if I have been faithful to her all of these years as I travel so much for work (yes, I have been by the way).
Also, after we signed our agreement, we also discussed if we would wear our rings and if we would stay faithful. We agreed to take off the rings, but to stay faithful until January 2018 (our deadline for deciding on D or not), unless one side meets someone very special and discusses with the other before anything happens.
"Unless one side meets someone very special and discusses with the other before anything happens."
I suppose that part was her idea? If your W comes to you abiut finding someone special, then she has already crossed a line. Hate to say this, but there may already be an OM in the picture. Stay faithful until January 2018? How about staying faithful until the MR officially/legally comes to an end. I'm guessing these are your W ideas?
You guessed right Tread.
But, I do need to say that I really don't think there is OM in the picture at the moment. I hope I'm not being naive.
She told me she has no interest at all in anything physical with anyone at the moment.
But, she was telling me that her friends were telling her when she went out while she was out of the country how guys were checking her out.
I think she just wants to feel wanted and attractive. Something I obviously failed to give her in the recent past.
She also had lots of nostalgic reunions with old school friends from 20 years ago whilst she was over there just now and has another big reunion there next week.
Also, her 40th birthday is coming up in a couple of months.
I'm wondering if these are connected or if I'm just grasping at straws????
I should add, I'm also not trying to look at the messages, mails, anything. I want to give her her privacy and I know from the last time this happened 12 years ago that it's going down a rabbit hole that will drive me crazy!
You should definitely check, so you know what you are dealing with. Realize that family and livelihood is at risk, so you to know because W will never twll you the truth. Also the reunion is definitely connected. May have hooked up with someone there or just having an EA. There are no coincidences.
Let me give you a breakdown on my own sitch. First time W cheated was apparently last summer. Was having a drink with her cousin and old childhood friends at the bar. Apparently when cousin went to the bathroom. Friends asked if he could kiss her. I guess he was to nervous to make a move as they were teens. So W said yes. And that was the end of it. By the way this guy is married with children.
The second time she cheated/current A. Was on a cruise with her sisters family. OM just happens to her sisters cousin and also married with children. They had sex in the ship se veral times. This guy lives out of state l, but he is the reason she is leaving the MR out if some strange hope he'll leave his family. OM is clearly just entertaining for the sex whenever they meet up again. This took place the week before Thanksgiving.
The week after the A with OM happened. We were visiting family. W got talked into going to another childhood friends home. Apparently she had no interest in him as a teen. But after giving a sob story on how he had a huge crush on her. He asked for a kiss and allowed him to kiss her. Makes you if this guy talked to the other childhood friends since they all grew up in the same area.
Number 4 is a guy in Public Works she worked with 3 years ago. He has a W and kids as well. Not really sure if W has cheatedwith this guy. But W texted him the day after OM kicked her to the curb when his W found out about the A back in December. Public Works guy was a friends she caught up with maybe twice a year. The moment she mentioned possibly divorcing me. Dude told her that he had been interested in her for years. Apparently she says she wasn't interested in him. But they contact each other now several times a month. Believe he might be in the friends zone, but he is trying his best to get betweenbtuem legs. And W is keeping around likely for her own ego I suppose.
But my point is that people from the past always bring up questions of what ifs. There are way too many stories, especially reunions where suddenly the person who didn't notice you in school now notices you as an adult. And that is where the fantasy takes place.
Thanks Tread, I'm so sorry to hear about your painful experiences.
I do hope there isn't anything there for me. My consolation is that, if there is, it's on the other side of the world and she won't be able to get there very often at all.
On the flip side we'll be living together in the same house, so I'll have the time to DB and see if I can change the situation.
I'm just having trouble staying strong and also getting so frustrated at the cold, nasty looks I'm getting. But, I know she's on a plane in a couple of days, so I'll get a respite then.
Holy [censored], her mother will be in your home too?! Then you have TWO MASTERS.
You're feeling sick for a reason. Listen to that inner voice. Personally, I would not allow them into my home. Set your boundaries, otherwise they'll continue to disrespect you.
I left my wife because she wanted to have both parents live in our home.
Whywhy,
Trust me the cold and dirty looks are going to be the least of your worries. Over time unfortunately that won't bother you so much and that's when you'll realize that your detaching from her.
Thanks athas and Tread for the comments.
Yes, it's rough, we paused the argument about her mother staying with no resolution as yet. Maybe we'll bring it up in couples therapy on Monday.
I really don't want to detach from her as I want things to improve, but am finding myself pulling away too.
Hope the time away helps.
It's the hardest situation in life. You know, your wife gives you sex, even if not as much as you'd like, and you obviously love your kids, and she's threatening to take it all away. That's tough.
I miss my daughter like crazy. And I miss having sex with my wife. But she wanted her parents to live in our house forever, even taking them on vacations. And because they are hispanic, they'd be talking spanish in the house among themselves.
If you allow her mother to stay, that gnaw in the pit of your stomach will just get worse. She clearly doesn't respect you, because if she did then she'd value your home and space and boundaries. Check out some of the content on the YT channel redonkulus.
On the flip side we'll be living together in the same house, so I'll have the time to DB and see if I can change the situation.
I'm just having trouble staying strong and also getting so frustrated at the cold, nasty looks I'm getting. But, I know she's on a plane in a couple of days, so I'll get a respite then.
A couple of questions for you, as my way of trying to get better acquainted with you.
What does DBing mean to you? And, what does staying strong mean?
Hi Sandi2,
For me DB'ing at the moment is the LRT, I have read the books and also downloaded Michelle's video course which I watch every few days to remind myself and also re-reading your 37 rules over and over.
That is what it means for me at the moment. I honestly don't have a plan for beyond that as things are in such a desperate position.
She is currently packing for the trip - she's going away for 2 1/2 weeks and yet is unloading half her closet, sheets, blankets, etc (remember she's going to her mom's). I made a comment which was torn down quickly.
She also told me that she is getting somewhere in her mind, but will wait for the therapy session tomorrow. My reading between the lines based on her behavior and on the way she is packing is that she's going to tell me in the therapy tomorrow that she is certain she wants out of this marriage!!!!!
Assuming that's what she says - it's going to cut like a knife - do I still with the not believing anything they say???? I'm scared for that tomorrow. Could really use some thoughts for that.
Also, should add that the only conversations we are having are her telling me what furniture she wants in her house from the place here.
I have been pretty ok on the LRT and even went out last night and got all dressed up, not telling her where I was going, etc.
All she said to me is that I can go out again today.
Not sure it's working at all!
Whywhy,
Be patient, it's still way to early in your sitch. You literally just went out by yourself one time. She won't start to get curious until your going out consistently. As far as her talking about the furniture she wants, just acknowledge , but give it no real attention.
Thanks Tread, that's what I did, but it's so frustrating as she's agreed to give it 5 months and to go to therapy with me. But, she's talking like everything's already done in her mind.
So, I've been reading some of the other threads and I notice a number of comments recommending not allowing her to "have her cake and eat it" . After today, I'll have a few weeks respite and I told her that I wouldn't initiate any contact over that period (she can call in when she wants to speak to the kids).
So, when she's back - we are going to be living in the same house with the kids, how do I make sure that I can apply the above or indeed should I?
Just simply try your best. If your W is worthless and being mean to you, then it won't be too hard for you. My W on the other hand when OM is not the topic of conversation is actually easy to get along with. We function very well and if you didn't know whatbwas happening between us you would assume everythingbwas going great. If anything we have proven that we can get things done together. This is the issue that I am personally having with detaching. I've lost a lot weight this Year from working out and my W keeps telling me that I need to eat more. She likes the weight loss, but she is concerned that I am not eating enough. Sobsge is constantly putting food in my face. Small, confusing glimpses of her caring.
Hi Tread,
Yes, I understand what you're saying. I know I'm painting a dark picture, but there have been tiny tiny glimmers. Same on the weight loss, though she isn't trying to get me to eat - she has complimented me a couple of times on the weight loss (my weight was a real issue to her).
Also, cooking dinner for her and the kids, she has made comments to the kids about what a great cook dad is ( I haven't cooked them a meal in a very long time).
And the rare occasional touch of my hand.
All confusing - and I know I'm going to hear some tough words at the therapy session today before she flies.
OK, so therapy was as expected today. She said how she has spent so long trying to please others that this is now HER time and she wants her independence.
She was also nasty enough that the therapist told her that she was being offensive.
Is this also part of the pattern??
Anyway, she is on a plane now with our baby (other 3 kids are with me) - and I feel like I have some breathing space.
whywhy.
Oh yeah, I've heard that one before. Now she's co-dependant, but conveniently the only change she makes in her life is getting rid of her H. Even though there are friends and family who are actually a drain on them and really contributes nothing to her life. I have heard this from my own W. But yet when things happen, she still goes to me first and foremost. Which is also a reason why she wants to be good friends after the MR. Don't fall for the nonsense.
If she really believed what she was saying, then she would make up a list of people she needed removed from her life. And you shouldn't even be on it. But like I said you are currently the only person that is on the "I need my independence list." What that is code for in my sitch "Is I want the right to sleep around without you telling me I can't."
Am feeling down today and a little hopeless. Having fun with the kids and keeping busy, but feeling a little overwhelmed by the feeling that I won't be able to bring her back to me and it really hurts.
She took so much stuff with her and only seems to be able to talk about next year and having her own place.
Anyone have any thoughts or tips on how to get through these blues?
So W arrived abroad with the baby. She contacted me from the airport (due to the time difference). I let her speak to the kids and then cut the conversation short and wished her well.
I miss her!!!
So, we've not spoken much. We had a video call with the kids and we didn't speak apart from hi/bye.
She just texted me (jetlag, so she isn't sleeping), and we had a few messages about the kids and she complimented me. I didn't let it go on for long, though I wanted it to.
So, I seem to be writing to myself, but it kind of helps too, though would love to get some feedback.
Our conversations are now brief and functional, she speaks to the kids - asks me how I am, I smile and say great and ask her how she is and that's it.
Though I keep having her words from a few days ago reverberate. She was asking me why I would want to be with her when I could go and be with someone who would really love me.
Is this also common?
Just feeling helpless.
I've been reading some of the other threads and see so many of the same patterns. Sadly, for some reason, most of the threads seem to end in D - at least from the ones I have read.
My W is still speaking to me every day, mainly to speak to the kids. I am all smiles and we are warm and polite, but very brief. I then feel crushed after every call. She looks beautiful and happy while I feel just broken.
I am trying to GAL, but don't really have any friends in this country (have never been a really social animal). Any of the friends I do have are also friends with my W or at least their wives are.
Any suggestions how to do this?
I still miss her everyday. I'm trying to 180 as much as I can over many thousands of miles.
I have friends coming round tonight with their kid to have dinner and let the kids play. The mother of the other kid is a very good friend of my W and in constant touch with her. Should I say something or just be all smiles (as long as I can hold it in place anyway).
Feeling very lonely on this board - could really use some advice/support please.
I would not say anything to the mother of the other kid. You are going to put on a smile, put some nice clothes on and act strong like you are doing great! You never know if this friend will report back to your W.
Do you have any interests? Do you work out? Run? Play any sports? Hobbies? What are you doing to help yourself?
Hi Joseph9,
Thanks so much for replying, nice to hear from someone!
I will put my best smile on tonight then - this mother will definitely be reporting back to my W. My W on the call this morning told me that she had spoken to this mother and knows she's coming round today!
To be honest, my interests are my family, my work and reading. No real hobbies, haven't had time.
I am going to the gym each day and have lost a fair bit of weight (lots more to go though).
I feel good for a bit and then crushed after every call. Then, in the evenings, after I have put the kids to bed, I just get really down and lonely.
___________
M: 46, W: 39
Together 20: Married 16
S:9, S:7, D:5, D:1
BD: 7/4/2017
Separation - 7/20/2017 (though still in the same house)
Ok cool....fake it until you make it!!! Make sure you look good tonight, the house is clean, and you are upbeat, friendly and enjoying life. Don't get sucked into any R talks with this other woman. If she asks just say you are doing good and enjoying going to the gym and catching up my reading. Leave it at that. I would also recommend not asking her any questions about your W either. You and your W and your sitch are off limits, keep it light and general but that you are doing good. If you need to cry......wait until she leaves
Keep going to the gym, try reading some self-help books on male leadership, being an alpha male, etc. I also listen to podcasts as well on what it means to be a man. I do this to help with my self-confidence. Get some new clothes whatever you need to do be confident. Try to keep your mind occupied, it's hard and I still struggle with it!
I would also think about if there is anything new and different you can do with your kids. That way when they talk to their mom maybe they will say what fun things they have been doing with their daddy! Additionally think about any other interest you may have that you didn't pursue while you were married and being a father. Guitar? Cooking classes? Basket Weaving? Anything to get out.
Hi whywhy,
Sorry I haven't responded. So many new people coming to the board, and trying to keep up with each one is challenging. I just wanted to reach out and encourage you. I know it's so hard, especially in the early parts of this, and when you see your W appearing to be so totally OK without you.
One thought I had was- I'm not sure when you are speaking about the calls from her to the kids- are you face-timing? B/C when you say I do it with a big smile, etc. The talking to her seems to be a trigger for you to go into sad mode, so maybe suggest to her that she text you when she's ready to talk to the kids, and then let them answer the phone or face time or whatever, and you don't interact with her at all on these calls.
It may be hard for you to give up that contact with her, but if it makes you spiral downward, it may be something to consider. Just tell her you'd rather than talk to her, but will be glad to set it up for the kids. But say it in a very upbeat way, just kind of- I've got too much going on and don't really have anything to say to you, but I'm happy to provide the chat time for the kids and her.
Just my 2 cents. Hang in there. It really does get easier.
Thanks Joseph9 - you helped me out alot as to how to handle this evening.
I am all dressed up and waiting for the guests - wearing clothes that I wouldn't have fit into 4 weeks ago!
I will avoid any R talk - though this woman is really close to my wife - but will avoid it.
I am going to the gym every day, it's a great outlet for me and am reading alot, but mainly relationship books.
Am keeping the kids entertained all the time, so they are over the moon!
Thanks again for the support
Hi leahsue,
Thanks for the comments. Yes, it is difficult as she seems to look so well (& beautiful) and is going out every night (though we have agreed to remain monogamous over the next few months - but I do have a concern for an EA).
Your idea for the facetime calls is really interesting. You are right, I have a down after the calls, but it also does me good to see her. And, I always answer with a smile and tell her everything's wonderful here, so I think that 180 may be worth the pain of the drop after the call.
I still don't understand how my life became this overnight!
Thanks Joseph9 - I did do it!!!
There was a little bit of R talk, but nothing too heavy and I kept it light and we had a lovely evening.
They are back tomorrow with other friends, so let's see how that goes. Feeling stronger after that!
Good for you.....now go to the gym, life some weights or whatever gets you motivated and feeling confident then do the same thing again!! Keep it light, your doing well, looking good, feeling good, nothing going to keep me down! No heavy talks of your R! Your the man you can do this!
Thanks Joseph9 - really helps to have some supportive words and motivation from here.
Heading out to the gym in a couple of hours with the kids and then looking forward to all the guests coming round and having the house filled with noise and laughter!
So, there was a nice video chat with the kids this morning and she kept asking me how I am. She also looked really down, but I didn't say anything about that, just said I'm good and kept it short.
I had to sign the kids up for something that needed her approval (I want all financial decisions to be joint). It was quite late there, but I messaged her and asked to talk. She kept avoiding talking and just kept messaging with odd comments like "do what you think best, I trust you", etc.
I felt something odd, so facetimed - she answered from a bar at like 1am there.
She then called me back a few minutes later to tell me that she was out with 2 girlfriends.
I just said that I was sorry I bothered her and next time just to text me she's out and we can speak the following day.
Why is it bothering me so much??????????? I'm not saying anything to her, but it bugs the hell out of me.
I know she can do what she wants and we did make an agreement that we would stay monogamous, but I do think there's an EA developing.
I'm here with 3 kids and she's in partytown!
Sorry, that was an angry rant. But, I'll tell you guys what is killing me. I miss talking to my best friend (her). I miss hearing about her day and listening and I miss telling her about mine (though usually I would listen). That's what I miss.
How did my best friend, lover, partner and wife become someone who looks at me with cold eyes on the verge of disgust??
Should I try to "engineer" going out so that she hears about it?
Why do you facetime? You don't have a device that sends text?
If she lets you decide whats best for the kids then just text her ok, I'll do this and that. Period. Thats what a strong, independant guy does.
The other stuff seems a bit like pursuit..
Don't worry about the shark eyes. That's probably just some defence mechanism.
And yes you should go out. Easy to engineer when you're in the same house. Remember to have the bathroom stink of your new great expensive cologne for the remainder of the evening.
Thanks Btrow - maybe it does smell a bit like pursuit, should have thought it through more. I definitely didn't need to facetime that time, it was just because I wanted to see where she was as she was being so evasive and out of character on the texts.
Anyway, had friends round to the house with their kids (mutual friends of both of ours, including the woman who is very close to her again).
Kids had a great time. It was a little awkward as the women, who are both friends with my wife and in her "texting circle", were clearly uncomfortable around me which made me feel awful.
I kept a smile up and made sure everyone had drinks and food, perfect host. The kids had a great time.
And now, the down of the evening, all alone as the kids go to bed.
I'm not having a great weekend.
I'm struggling not to call her up and tell her I miss her. I know I won't and can't, but the urge is really there.
I'm going to trust the advice of others here that this does get better, because I really aint seeing that so far!
It sounds as if you may be the co-dependent one, everything connected to family. Do your buddies ever get together without their W's? What do you like to do in spare time? GAL is so very important. What can you do to be more independent from your W?
Hi Sandi2,
Yes, I think you're right.
To be honest I spent so much time focusing on work and family that I guess I didn't really have anything else.
My buddies do get together usually once a week, but I was travelling for work on 90% of the times.
So, not sure what to do. I can't travel for work at the moment as I have the kids.
OK, so this just happened and I could use some thoughts and advice.
My W just called me (she had apparently tried a few hours ago, but I had turned my phone off). She told me that she is feeling really bad and has been crying all the time for the past 2 days. She told me she is going to see an IC there (not the one, obviously, that she is seeing there).
She also told me that the baby has been waking up in the night every night and she is exhausted.
I tried to empathize and listen and tell her that I was very sorry to hear.
I asked her if there was anything I could do to help.
She told me no and that it annoyed her when I ask!
She said she thought the tears were just "part of the process" (not sure what that means and didn't ask).
When she asked about here and how the kids are, I also told her that things were great and kept very upbeat (didn't say a word about being so down).
Is there anything I should be doing here?
Should I be concerned about another IC in the mix? (though there's not alot I can do about that).
I think there's something happening here that could be an opportunity, but am lost as to the best way to handle. Anyone have any experience/insight??
Thanks
If she wants this she needs to figure it out on her own......just validate but don't ask her if you can do anything or say your sorry......there is a thread on validation if you need to read it. Don't rescue her and don't save her.....she needs to feel and experience the pain. Just my 10 cents.
Hi Joseph9,
Thanks. I will read the validation thread.
I said to her "I'm sorry to hear that you've been having a hard time". Is that in line with validation? I was trying to empathize?
I shouldn't have asked if I can help I guess. I think I was just trying to help and to show her that she had a shoulder to cry on (albeit with 10,000 miles in between). This was a mistake, so I won't do that again.
But, am curious how I validate without saying "I'm sorry to hear you're in pain"?
So, she called after her IC session on a video call and said that her session had been great and had helped alot. She mentioned she would be going there again - though was concerned about the cost. I told her not to worry about the money at all at the moment and to concentrate on getting stronger first and we would work out the moneys when she gets back.
She then spoke to all of the kids and, as it is her mom's birthday, I got all the kids together and had them sing happy birthday to her as well as adding my wishes with a big smile.
She then asked me another couple of questions (kid related) and I told her I had to go as I was late. On saying goodbye (remember Facetime), she blew me a kiss. Just old habit do you think or a sign of warming?
I know her and I think she still has a long way to go down the path of convincing herself she wants out before I can make any inroads at all. But, the kiss was a warm feeling that really threw me.
Folks, I seem to be slip sliding all over the place - can someone please put me back in line!
Am taking the kids out to a movie in a few minutes and looking forward to it
Had a great time at the movies with the kids.
Got back and a while later my W starting texting me (middle of the night there), that she couldn't sleep.
I decided to ignore the messages and went out (got my sister to come over and babysit). Just went to a movie, but was nice to get out.
I only responded this morning to the message and even then with a very brief message.
Is this mean or a decent 180?
I tried to empathize and listen and tell her that I was very sorry to hear.
I asked her if there was anything I could do to help.
She told me no and that it annoyed her when I ask!
Sometimes women just the H to listen. She doesn't want him trying to fix the problem for her. Since she said it annoyed her, my suggestion is to not offer to be so helpful from this point on. The LBH can "over do" when he's trying so hard to save the M. Don't be quick in trying to rescue the WW, and allow her to see how she would manage without you in the picture.
Is there anything I should be doing here?
No.
Should I be concerned about another IC in the mix? (though there's not alot I can do about that).
Don't worry about matters you can't control.
Thanks sandi2,
Yes, you are right, the trying to help didn't work and I backed off it.
On the last call she mentioned to me again that she had been crying for 2 days and I just said that I was sorry to hear that. She actually replied again that she thinks it's just "part of the process" - I'm not entirely sure what she means by that, but I have a bad feeling it is her way of moving on.
Again, can't control it and can't ask as I'm keeping conversations brief, but it is a bad feeling in my stomach.
So she called me early morning there - not text just a video call. it was evening here.
She asked if she could speak to any of the kids, I told her they were all asleep. She made a comment about how lucky I was and then started having a fun conversation with me which was enjoyable.
Then she mentioned that she needed to go off for 2 minutes (to use the restroom) and would call me right back.
I waited and waited. An hour or so later I texted her that I would be going to bed soon. An hour and a half later I texted her that I was going to bed and we would speak tomorrow and wished her a wonderful day. No reply at all from her.
This morning, almost as soon as I woke up, she texted asking if I was up. I said yes and she video called. Carried on the conversation, never made a comment about last night.
She was on her way to her IC.
Now, I am wondering what all this was about. You see, she knows I am a real stickler about time (I hate to be late) and this was one of our big argument topics in the M.
Do you think it's about control?
I never made a comment!
She was also much colder this morning in attitude and face.
This is some roller coaster!!!!
sounds like an excellent 180 opportunity to me.......when she did not call you back you just should have let it go, not texted her back and not wished her a wonderful day. she left you and did not return your call why does she get a wonderful day? Maybe she was testing to you to see how you would respond to her not calling you back. To see if old whywhy would return.
Thanks Joseph9 - I agree - it's an excellent 180.
I thought about not texting, but I wanted to show her that it wasn't bothering me as I think she was testing me (either that or she just doesn't care). If I hadn't responded she might have thought that I had gone away angry. This way she knew I was calm and wishing her well!
She called this morning after her IC and I was running late with the kids (in fact had waited with them for her to finish so she could say hello to them). So, it was short with the kids and then I said goodbye. But, I did notice her eyes were red from crying - made me sad.
OK, so she texted me a little while ago.
She told me that she was missing the kids awfully and she wanted to know if I could move her flight to come back earlier.
Is this a good thing? What are the thoughts?
On the one hand, has she had enough time on her own to work through some of the things (I have no idea and no control over that of course).
On the other hand, if she is back here and in the house, can my DB'ing and LRT'ing be more visible (though I won't be able to slip)?
Thoughts???
Can you move the flight? Would it cost you money? If an earlier flight was not available would she know? Did she give you a specific date or time? Not sure I am the expert on this but some might say to make her sweat it out and stick to the original flight plan. She made the bed let her sleep in it. It doesn't sound like she mentioned missing you at all...........
On the last call she mentioned to me again that she had been crying for 2 days and I just said that I was sorry to hear that.
She's mentioned it the last two calls, and usually when a woman tells a man she's cried the past two days.......she wants him to ask why, so that she can talk about her feelings.
I just said that I was sorry to hear that. She actually replied again that she thinks it's just "part of the process" - I'm not entirely sure what she means by that, but I have a bad feeling it is her way of moving on.
Ha......she didn't particularly like your answer. I think she was trying to pull you into a R talk by saying, "It's just part of the process". I think it's funny when she can't manipulate the conversation to go like she wants. What you said was perfect!
Remember, in her current mindset..........she thinks the universe revolves around her.
.
Thanks Joseph9,
Oddly enough as the flight was on points and I'm a very frequent flyer (or at least I was before all of this happened) - it won't cost any money.
She did give me a specific day (Monday) as she has another IC session on Sunday.
In fact I have the ticket for her in place.
And, no, she never mentioned missing me at all. But, to be honest, I don't think she's capable of saying that at the moment.
I may be a glutton, but I really do want to see her - and I also miss my baby daughter who also comes back!!
Hi Sandi2,
Thanks for that.
Yes, I think you're absolutely right, she thinks the world revolves around her.
Glad to hear I managed to actually say the right thing.
Am going to keep pushing forward.
OK, so I did move her flights earlier.
The kids were ecstatic and, to be fair, she did thank me a number of times.
She did also ask if I was ok with it.
She also sent a couple of nice texts saying that the kids were saying how much I was doing with them and around the house and good for me.
She also mentioned that she didn't mind taking the spare room when she got back. This kind of stung, I don't know why as I knew it wouldn't be any different this early in, but it still did.
So, I better study up over the weekend as she'll be back Monday night and then I won't be able to get ready for the conversations as she'll be here.
It's been a couple of days.
The roller coaster is still going on.
So, yesterday and the day before, she was complimenting on how good I'm looking and how much weight I lost.
She also needed me to speak to a very close of hers about something she wanted to return to the US. I did and her friend initiated a conversation about the R, which I cut very short.
A few minutes later my wife calls me and says "why did you say so and so to my friend". I told her I hadn't, she accepted that and told me that she was coming back with an open mind and wasn't angry anymore. It was a very warm conversation.
Later, she texted me again to see if I could pull her flight in even earlier!
I managed to get it to Sunday now. She thanked me via text alot.
Anyway, last night I went out, had a great time with friends. She knew this (I didn't tell her any details though) as I told her because she wouldn't be able to speak to the kids in the evening.
This morning on the video call, she was giving me really ugly looks and making sniping comments that were trying to be hurtful.
I also heard her mother telling one of my kids that she would be over here (staying in our house) next month. Something I had asked my wife not to happen.
Anyway, after she spoke to the kids and started sniping at me, I cut the conversation short as I could see it was going nowhere good.
How long does the up and down go on for????
I feel sorry for you, man. She's a headache.
Listen, check out Terrence Popp on youtube and it should lift your spirits.
Thanks Athas - yep, she's a headache right now. But, I do love her and I do want to see how this can be mended.
hey whywhy.....I think this roller coaster will go on for while.....all the senior posters say to buckle up and hang on......in your last post you indicated that your W is being rude to you or possibly showing you some disrespect with her facial expressions etc......I am not an expert on this but you may think about setting some boundaries and telling her that treating you this way is not acceptable. If you read some of what sandi writes she talks extensively about this and how the LBS needs to gain respect from his W.
Thanks Athas - yep, she's a headache right now. But, I do love her and I do want to see how this can be mended.
You're one year older than me, and my wife is the same age as yours. I still love my wife and we've been separated for six months now. But she's been playing these games with me for several years until I said enough is enough and I walked out on her.
My wife doesn't respect me. And yours doesn't respect you.
I tried for years to get her on my side. Bending over backwards. Eventually I took my balls back.
They don't change.
Hi joseph9,
Thanks for that. Yes, I have a feeling that this will go on for a while, sadly. I just have these intense down moments that are so difficult to get through. I'm going to have to work out how to hide those when she is back.
I'm not sure it's disrespect she's showing me as much as the remnants of the intense anger. She is obviously trying to convince herself to move on in her mind and some days for her are better than others.
I have to take responsibility for alot of the damage caused in our marriage over the last year, so don't think I should set specific boundaries at the moment.
I think I need to take advantage once she's back to work on my 180's and show her family life as it could be.
Maybe start chipping away at the iceberg.
just be careful whywhy....read some of sandi's posts on WW.....I don't think you are going to be chipping away at the iceberg any time soon. Many of the vets say you have to be prepared to loose your marriage to save it. Set some boundaries for your self and then be prepared to enforce them. Never leave your MBR and if anyone is to leave the home it should be her.
I was lucky I guess....my W volunteered to leave the bedroom and she also volunteered to leave the house.
Hey Athas,
I think she does respect me, just is very angry about alot of things (some of them with justification).
Also, this is something new and sudden, hasn't been happening for years, so I'm willing to put my balls and ego aside for now I think. Let's see how it goes.
Hey Athas,
I think she does respect me, just is very angry about alot of things (some of them with justification).
Also, this is something new and sudden, hasn't been happening for years, so I'm willing to put my balls and ego aside for now I think. Let's see how it goes.
Don't put your balls aside.
Hi joseph9,
Yes, I'm guessing it's going to be a long haul, even though I'm trying to stay positive to influence my attitude. I'm even trying to believe that the big announcement she's coming back with is that she wants to work on the M. In my heart of hearts, I know it's most likely that she's going to announce either that she's done or an EA or PA.
I am setting up the spare bedroom for her and I am staying in the MBR.
I am also waiting for the argument about her parents to come out again as I overheard her mother telling one of my kids that they are coming next month, even though my W and I had discussed that this wouldn't happen.
My biggest problem now is how to handle the severe down moods that come over me once she's here. It's going to be alot harder to hide.
Also, this is something new and sudden, hasn't been happening for years, so I'm willing to put my balls and ego aside for now I think. Let's see how it goes.
Putting your balls aside, is NEVER a wise decision, especially when you have a manipulative W. And, she is very manipulative, from what I see. Listen, she has this whole thing planned out. She was being nice until she knew you arranged for her to come back sooner.
I would not be surprised if her mother is behind your W's decision to stay over there. Now, Mother intends to arrive soon, and your W knows you don't want it. I think they plan to take the kids and return to Mother's country. And, here you are talking about putting your balls aside?
Women do not respect men who have no balls. Men without balls are not attractive to us. We
like balls, and will try to take our H's balls away from him. Once we get our H's balls, we are not going to freely give them back.
Hi sandi2,
Thanks for the thoughts.
I really don't think it is all planned out to be honest. Maybe I'm being naive.
Either way, they can't take the kids anywhere without passports!
When/if I find the boundaries being broken, then I will use my balls, have no fear.
I just feel that, at this point, I need to do a 180 and also let her get more of the anger out.
I am intending to change. I am intending to give a fair bit, but there are limits, don't worry.
Again, I'm going to have to trust my instincts about her here. Just hope I'm not wrong here!
whywhy,
Just be careful, WW have a way of making moves behind your back. Wouldn't be the least bit surprised if she hadn't at least looked into getting the kids passports. And with her mother in the picture don't be surprised if she isn't helping and advising.
Sandi,
Speaking of balls. Not sure if I made situation worse last weekend. Or if that falls along me enforcing my boundaries. Please let me know what you think?
Hi Tread,
I have no doubt at all that she has a hidden agenda that I do not have visibility into and that her mother (& her brother in this case) are helping and advising too).
But, she won't get to the passports and I'm also banking on her being here and my 180's and the family life having it's effects thousands of miles away from her family for a bit.
A couple of hectic days have gone by.
So, she's still not back as yet. Her plane went tech on Sunday at the connection. I put her in a nice hotel (this was in London) with the baby for the night and was looking at options with the airline.
The next day she got on the same plane - it spent 4 hours rolling around and then came back to the gate and was cancelled again.
I managed to get her access to the business lounges all of this time.
Anyway, in the end, I got her on a late flight to JFK last night and booked her a hotel room at the airport. Spoke to the hotel and had food and a hygiene care package waiting in the room.
She was in a foul mood.
Finally, this morning, she's on her way home. I know she'll be tired and grouchy.
So, she's back!
I picked her and the baby up at the airport.
We got into the car and started driving and she laid into me. She told me that she hoped that I hadn't misunderstood when she said she was coming back with an open mind - that nothing had changed and that she had learnt that she felt no love for me and hadn't for a long time!
She then went on to say that she wasn't sure it was a good idea us living in the same house (I had told her that I was staying in the MBR). I told her she was welcome to rent a place nearby -she replied with "wouldn't you like that!"
A bunch of other stuff. Then she said that if I could get a job in her country sooner we would move sooner. I stopped her there and told her that the kids were staying the school year. That we have 4 kids and they need to take priority!
Anyway, I absorbed most of it.
Later on she kept apologizing to me for attacking me straight off the bat. She even asked if we could get a glass of wine and watch a TV show together. I said yes, but then when the kids were all down, she said she was too tired. I told her that was fine.
The kids were really happy to see her and kept asking us not to separate. I stayed out of it.
What a day. Guess I need to fasten my seat belt!
Did she even thank you for how you booked the nice rooms, etc.?
The way she behaved when riding back for the airport........is that typical? I gathered from your post that you can predict her behavior when she's in a bad mood. In past times when she was in a bad mood and took it out on you........how would you normally respond?
Hi sandi2,
Thanks for the comments.
So, she did say thank you on the phone before she arrived. But, nothing in person.
Yes, you are absolutely correct, when she is very tired or stressed, she will go into a really bad mood. My normal response was to absorb this as I knew this wasn't really her. Much as I did here.
Today, so far has been calm. She is constantly talking about the move and how this year here is not what she want.
She told me that she just wants to go home to her parents and be a little girl again.
She also brought up that her parents are coming and that they will be staying for alot longer than we had discussed. I asked her to stop the conversation and if we could discuss it in couples counselling as I didn't want an argument and I do want my opinion to be heard.
She agreed, but did say that her parents would be coming as they want to make sure that their daughter is ok.
It's really tough looking happy all day!!!
So, I told her I was going out tomorrow - didn't give any details, but just wanted to make sure she didn't have plans so that one of us could be here to look after the kids.
She said fine.
I noticed after that her mood went sour.
She then told me that she is going out tonight. And has.
Also, she complimented me today about how I'm taking care of everything around the house. And then added "if you had done this 5 years ago, things could have been different today"
She then kept saying that it isn't just about problems in the past year. I said to her I never said it was.
Also, she complimented me today about how I'm taking care of everything around the house. And then added "if you had done this 5 years ago, things could have been different today"
Ah, don't you believe it for a minute! If a woman is in love, she is not going to leave him b/c he didn't wash the dishes, or whatever around the house. At least, a normal woman wouldn't end her M over something like that. However, if she grew up being pampered and spoiled by her parents, and if you came along and followed their example and accommodated her to the extreme.......then she is probably very spoiled and feels entitled. I get the impression her family caters to her wishes, and that's why she wants to go back. These are the worst, b/c they are consumed with selfishness. Does she do her share around the house?
As much as she is talking about moving, don't you think she's prepping for mother's arrival? I think that has been the plan between her and her mother. She'll take the kids out of school, move them to her country......and you can leave or stay. You may want to get legal advice and see if there's anything you can do to prevent her taking your children out of the country.
You did really good by telling her you have plans to go out.
Thanks sandi2,
You are absolutely right, she was (& is spoilt). To be fair though, I always knew that and accepted that as part of the package, so I can't blame her for it.
Despite this, she did do by far the bulk of the housework. I was working very long hours, but, to be fair, could have done more around the house.
I have no doubt though that she does not feel love for me at the moment. Her heart is closed right now and I am nowhere near that. The question is going to be if I can open it again. I don't have the answer to that question, but her eyes are not showing any warmth towards me at all!
I still don't think she's going to take the kids and run. For alot of reasons, but, not least of which, she can't support herself or them without me as she doesn't work and couldn't get a job in her country earning much more than minimum wage. Her parents are both retired and don't have much.
Please keep the comments coming as they really help me with perspective which is difficult to see from within the roller coaster!
So, this morning, she told me she was going out to get some clothes (long story, but it won't cost us money). She had to go to an IC session first.
She then invited me to come and join her. I was surprised, but accepted.
Anyway, she called me as soon as she finished the IC and told me that she didn't want me to come and wanted to be on her own.
We have a Couples counselling in a bit, I have a VERY bad feeling!
Well, looks like my gut feeling was right.
That was a REALLY rough counselling session!
She said clearly in it that she is ready to start divorce proceedings now.
I asked her where the open mind we agreed is as we try this for a few months, she said mind is fine, but heart is closed.
I'm feeling kind of crushed right now!
Should I just stop this and get the D?
Should I just stop this and get the D?
Only you can answer that question. Is that what you want?
Does SHE have a plan that she has shared with you about the D that she wants?
Hi Joseph9,
No it isn't what I want, but if the end result is already pre-determined, then is it worth all of this pain.
I know that it's only the frustration talking, it's just really rough and I've been feeling so so down!