http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2745041&page=11So I had a crazy strange dream last night.
We were in a cabin and I was following W around trying to get her to talk to me. We went out on the deck and I pointed to a giant bear in a pool like pond behind a shed. I asked W if that was the hot tub she said no and pointed the other direction. We got into the hot tub for a bit still trying to talk to her she got out and So did I and I followed her to a sauna where we laid on separate cots. Later on I just remember us making up and kissing. Then I grabbed a cylinder of gas that looked like high Tess gas with a pink tint and combined it with a clear cylinder that had normal yellows gas and was in the ground. When I combined them a big hair ball or dirt was floating around so I flushed the system and the gas started to pour out and then turned into a giant flame. And I jumped away from it then I woke up.
I've had several dreams since she left and they all seem to have us reconcileing. Idk if it's my subconscious showing me what I want to see our God showing me that I need to continue to not give up cause there's a light at the end of the tunnel. This past dream just seemed so crazy cause last night I was lettin my dog outside and I looked up at the stars and just dropped to my knees crying and praying to god to show me a sign one way or the other to point me in which direction to go. And then this dream happened and I rarely remember dreams most nights.
Just wondering do y'all think it's safe to give my W compliments if/when we see each other? Or would that be considered pursuing her still?
Just wondering do y'all think it's safe to give my W compliments if/when we see each other? Or would that be considered pursuing her still?
I personally would mirror her.
If she compliments you then agree and compliment her.
However I would not compliment her as a strategy for
her to return to the marriage.
If she was/is depressed it is going to take a bit of time for her to get out of this state.
You can not say anything that is going to FIX her.
She needs to do that on her own.
Just wondering do y'all think it's safe to give my W compliments if/when we see each other? Or would that be considered pursuing her still?
I personally would mirror her.
If she compliments you then agree and compliment her.
However I would not compliment her as a strategy for
her to return to the marriage.
If she was/is depressed it is going to take a bit of time for her to get out of this state.
You can not say anything that is going to FIX her.
She needs to do that on her own.
Yeah you're right, she would probably take it as I'm trying to hard to show her my changes. But on the other hand I feel it would show her i am changing.
Don't pay any attention to dreams, your mind is going through a major adjustment and you're likely to have some really bizarre dreams for a while.
Yeah you're right, she would probably take it as I'm trying to hard to show her my changes. But on the other hand I feel it would show her i am changing.
The biggest change that you can make that she will appreciate is to back off and remove all pressure. Nothing wrong with a nice compliment as long as you can do it WITHOUT EXPECTATIONS. In other words, don't do it and stare her down waiting for her to offer you a compliment in return or a "thank you". Can you do that right now? Probably not. So even a compliment can be pressure on the WAS, and pressure is bad! Give her time and space, that's what she's really craving right now- a break from you. You really can't do anything she will view as "good" right now, her frame of mind is that anything you do drives her crazy, even if it's a simple compliment. That will change a few months down the road, but for now you've got to accept that this is how things are! Don't try to rush things, this is a marathon, not a sprint!
The biggest change that you can make that she will appreciate is to back off and remove all pressure. Nothing wrong with a nice compliment as long as you can do it WITHOUT EXPECTATIONS. In other words, don't do it and stare her down waiting for her to offer you a compliment in return or a "thank you". Can you do that right now? Probably not. So even a compliment can be pressure on the WAS, and pressure is bad! Give her time and space, that's what she's really craving right now- a break from you. You really can't do anything she will view as "good" right now, her frame of mind is that anything you do drives her crazy, even if it's a simple compliment. That will change a few months down the road, but for now you've got to accept that this is how things are! Don't try to rush things, this is a marathon, not a sprint!
I feel like I've detached enough where I wouldn't expect a reply if I compliment her but I probably still shouldn't take the risk. She's finally acting like she's somewhat willing to talk and see me even if it's just to move her stuff or to talk about finances. In my eyes that's still a slight improvement from when she first left.
I find it strange that my w is so motivated to move all her possessions out of our house but she still hasn't changed her address. Idk that seems like one of the first things I would do, makes me wonder if she's trying to keep a foot in the door.
I find it strange that my w is so motivated to move all her possessions out of our house but she still hasn't changed her address. Idk that seems like one of the first things I would do, makes me wonder if she's trying to keep a foot in the door.
i would read
nothing into that.^^ I filed for divorce and I didn't change my address partly b/c I wasn't sure how long I'd be at the new place, so there was some vagueness,
and partly b/c I just forgot. She's moving her stuff, which requires great effort and she's
doing that.
But filling out a piece of paper or online to change her address is no biggie. My guess is that's an oversight whereas moving her stuff is real & purposeful. Don't hold back from forward movement for non reasons.
IF there is a huge change internally, and if it's worth your time it won't be this mysterious or unclear
I'm so sorry
Re giving her compliments...you wrote...
Yeah you're right, she would probably take it as I'm trying to hard to show her my changes.
But on the other hand I feel it would show her i am changing.
see anything revealing about this^^^??
As far as the compliments go, I would gauge the sitch. I see someone above mentioned that if she gave you a compliment then reciprocate. My WW is an attractive woman(IMO) that I have always complimented her looks, but her AP is telling her this way more than I am so he wins out. You giving her any compliment would come across as pursuing.
Re giving her compliments...you wrote...
Yeah you're right, she would probably take it as I'm trying to hard to show her my changes.
But on the other hand I feel it would show her i am changing.
see anything revealing about this^^^??
I guess this shows it's more about me trying to validate my changes to her instead her seeing them or wanting those changes.
I find it strange that my w is so motivated to move all her possessions out of our house but she still hasn't changed her address. Idk that seems like one of the first things I would do, makes me wonder if she's trying to keep a foot in the door.
i would read
nothing into that.^^ I filed for divorce and I didn't change my address partly b/c I wasn't sure how long I'd be at the new place, so there was some vagueness,
and partly b/c I just forgot. She's moving her stuff, which requires great effort and she's
doing that.
But filling out a piece of paper or online to change her address is no biggie. My guess is that's an oversight whereas moving her stuff is real & purposeful. Don't hold back from forward movement for non reasons.
IF there is a huge change internally, and if it's worth your time it won't be this mysterious or unclear
I'm so sorry
You're right, I'm just desperate to find any little crack or shred of evidence that's she's not fully committed to leaving. I just need to accept the fact that AT THIS TIME she FEELS like this is what's best for her. I know it' still hasn't been a month yet but her actions seem lightning speed and rushing through to move out her stuff.
Re giving her compliments...you wrote...
Yeah you're right, she would probably take it as I'm trying to hard to show her my changes.
But on the other hand I feel it would show her i am changing.
see anything revealing about this^^^??
I guess this shows it's more about me trying to validate my changes to her instead her seeing them or wanting those changes.
To me it shows that these are not authentic changes in you. They are tactics to get her back. Not the same thing.
And anything (even sincerely) done in just a month of time, is not something to expect a reaction from. Your timeline is simply way way too fast.
Have you heard that "this is a marathon, not a sprint"?? Because it is.
As for changes, here's the "math" of it.
consistent change + sufficient time = change she can believe in.
Take that ^^ in and repeat it to yourself if you need to.
As for words of affirmation, are they hard for you? If so, that's an area for you to work on b/c they are "free" and relatively easy to do.
But IF & when you compliment her - you do it and you somehow reveal that no reaction is expected.
"That dinner was great. You're a creative chef." And then you pick up some dishes and move to the kitchen; you don't stare at her for reciprocity or effect.
The Five Love Languages is a book that talks about how we give AND receive love and it can be 2 different languages. We may give love in a way we don't really feel from another. I was not big on getting gifts but I liked getting them for others. Even small things.
But what makes me feel loved are acts of service and time together. A day or trip planned...fixing something of mine or a project in the house (I LOVE a man who can build or fix stuff!)
My h wanted physical touch and words of affirmation. That is also what he gave me, which was not what I needed nearly as much as time with him. Don't get me wrong, I liked it. It just wasn't what made me feel most loved. H was not a doctor when i married him and when we were engaged, I literally told a friend I would "never marry a doctor; they have no time for family." Fast forward 5 years and boom, married to a medical student. And have a baby...
So, figure out how you have been showing her love in HER love languages or if you have been, and that will help guide you.
But make the changes real b/c you believe in them. If you are only doing this to get her back
she will not trust it, and it won't last anyhow.
Make sense?
Re giving her compliments...you wrote...
Yeah you're right, she would probably take it as I'm trying to hard to show her my changes.
But on the other hand I feel it would show her i am changing.
see anything revealing about this^^^??
I guess this shows it's more about me trying to validate my changes to her instead her seeing them or wanting those changes.
To me it shows that these are not authentic changes in you. They are tactics to get her back. Not the same thing.
And anything (even sincerely) done in just a month of time, is not something to expect a reaction from. Your timeline is simply way way too fast.
Have you heard that "this is a marathon, not a sprint"?? Because it is.
As for changes, here's the "math" of it.
consistent change + sufficient time = change she can believe in.
Take that ^^ in and repeat it to yourself if you need to.
As for words of affirmation, are they hard for you? If so, that's an area for you to work on b/c they are "free" and relatively easy to do.
But IF & when you compliment her - you do it and you somehow reveal that no reaction is expected.
"That dinner was great. You're a creative chef." And then you pick up some dishes and move to the kitchen; you don't stare at her for reciprocity or effect.
The Five Love Languages is a book that talks about how we give AND receive love and it can be 2 different languages. We may give love in a way we don't really feel from another. I was not big on getting gifts but I liked getting them for others. Even small things.
But what makes me feel loved are acts of service and time together. A day or trip planned...fixing something of mine or a project in the house (I LOVE a man who can build or fix stuff!)
My h wanted physical touch and words of affirmation. That is also what he gave me, which was not what I needed nearly as much as time with him. Don't get me wrong, I liked it. It just wasn't what made me feel most loved. H was not a doctor when i married him and when we were engaged, I literally told a friend I would "never marry a doctor; they have no time for family." Fast forward 5 years and boom, married to a medical student. And have a baby...
So, figure out how you have been showing her love in HER love languages or if you have been, and that will help guide you.
But make the changes real b/c you believe in them. If you are only doing this to get her back
she will not trust it, and it won't last anyhow.
Make sense?
Her love language is physical touch, and a year and a half ago or so when she tried talking to me the one time about how she felt a lack of intimacy I took it as she felt bored of the love making. I handled it poorly at first cause I felt she wasn't happy with our sex life, so I kinda gave her a cold shoulder for a day or so as I pouted in self pity. But what I've come to realize is that I was way off, she felt the everyday LITTLE parts of intimacy was lacking. She needed more longer hugs, more passionate kisses, just more physical everyday touch. I can blame myself for not understanding exactly what she was telling me was lacking but on the other hand she also did not communicate clearly what she meant when she said she felt the intimacy was lacking. So as I attempted to spice up the love life by doing different things in the bedroom I thought I was correcting the issue she had but I was way off, and the fact that she never brought it up again led me to believe I made the necessary changes. All the while she was continuing to build up little pices of resentment along the way.
And I just want so badly to tell her all these things that I've come to realize and reflect on, but I know it would fall in deff ears at this time. After the first week she left I tried to explain all the things and asking her why she wasn't willing to try and her response everytime was "I'm just done"
I really want to send my W the casting crowns song broken together, it's such a powerful song to me. I'm sure it wouldnt be received well and would probably fall in the category of self loathing, and would only push her away and be considered pursuing. Idk I just have a strong urge to send it to her.
Stunned,
I know exactly how you feel. For over a year, I've wanted to send the OM a douchebag via Amazon. I keep resisting, but I don't think I can resist much longer.
Well I had a moment of weakness today and asked the W if she cared to join me for a slurpee at 7 eleven after she got off work. (She loves slurpees) her reply was "I'm sorry. I can't". Idk why I asked cause I knew the answer, but she is meeting me tomorrow cause we both have to sign some documents about terminating our Ivf program. So she's fine meeting when it comes to tying up lose ends but not a casual meeting. Again I know it's only 4 weeks so I must pump the brakes
Her love language is physical touch, and a year and a half ago or so when she tried talking to me the one time about how she felt a lack of intimacy I took it as she felt bored of the love making. I handled it poorly at first cause I felt she wasn't happy with our sex life, so I kinda gave her a cold shoulder for a day or so as I pouted in self pity. But what I've come to realize is that I was way off
Well, very much so. I'm hoping you can see that your reaction was precisely the opposite of what she needed.
She told you of an unmet need of HERS - and you felt attacked and so you punished her.
Now hold on, don't think I'm saying you're a moron and the worst h ever.
I"m explaining to you, HER Possible view point. And a source of pain and sense of rejection for her.
Make sense?
Her love language is physical touch, and a year and a half ago or so when she tried talking to me the one time about how she felt a lack of intimacy I took it as she felt bored of the love making. I handled it poorly at first cause I felt she wasn't happy with our sex life, so I kinda gave her a cold shoulder for a day or so as I pouted in self pity. But what I've come to realize is that I was way off
Well, very much so. I'm hoping you can see that your reaction was precisely the opposite of what she needed.
She told you of an unmet need of HERS - and you felt attacked and so you punished her.
Now hold on, don't think I'm saying you're a moron and the worst h ever.
I"m explaining to you, HER Possible view point. And a source of pain and sense of rejection for her.
Make sense?
I completely understand that now, but like I said at the time she didn't fully explain what she was talking about and I didn't ask either. I just assumed she was talking about the sex and not the everyday intimate things she was actually referring too. I'm not blaming her either for that cause she isn't one that likes confrontation so it was probably hard for her anyways to come out and say that. All these things I really want to talk to her about and it's just too late. That's the saddest part of all this. Why didn't I see this or understand this before she became a WAW? I guess I was so oblivious because we got along so well 99% of the time and she continued to reassure me of her love for me all the up till he last few days
she felt the everyday LITTLE parts of intimacy was lacking. She needed more longer hugs, more passionate kisses, just more physical everyday touch. I can blame myself for not understanding exactly what she was telling me was lacking but
on the other hand she also did not communicate clearly what she meant when she said she felt the intimacy was lacking.
Actually, She did communicate that in the examples you give above. She wanted something from you and said what it was and now you say you didn't understand it and that it's her fault for not making it crystal clear or repeating it to you (i.e. nag).
Sounds like she wanted more affection outside the bedroom. And or more foreplay.
I think it took a lot of humility & risk on her part, to have expressed this to you.
Feeling desired outside the bedroom and wooed inside the bedroom, tends to affect how much libido a w will feel, too. Sometimes when a h complains about how his "w doesn't want sex", the w mentions a conversation she had with him some years earlier wherein she told him of HER unmet sexual or romantic needs...which is tragic really.
Because I thnk most h's would put in the effort - b/c they love their w's (and b/c they love sex & would have had a lot more of it!).
*Also- When you admit something you want to work on, or an error on your end
and then say "But she..." you essentially negate your admission. You make it her fault.
Blaming her - usually makes you exactly the same as you were before. (After all, Since you made no error, what's to change?? Therefore, what can she expect to change in the m?)
Do you want to dig deep and make some changes, or make this all about who is at fault?
You can do this.
Now hold on, don't think I'm saying you're a moron and the worst h ever.
I"m explaining to you, HER Possible view point. And a source of pain and sense of rejection for her.
Make sense?
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I DO feel like a moron knowing now what I didn't realize then, why did I react that way? The only thing I can come up with is I felt that what I was giving her wasn't good enough for her and that made me feel insecure, when really it wasn't that at all she just wanted me to show her her love language more often to her.
I've been discovering her view point and her source of pain and rejection since just days after she left. That's been the hardest part of this journey thus far is looking in the mirror and seeing a man that could've so easily kept his marriage strong by doing the things that I did the first several years of our relationship but got sloppy so quickly after we said I do. My understanding on why she felt she needed to leave and her feelings of hopelessness and her belief that it's too far gone to reconcile is coming painfully clearer daily. But I will still be focused on improving myself still in hopes for her to want to reconcile one day but just as much for myself.
**Here is a key concept to take in..
Constructive feedback Or someone telling you they need something more from you, is not an attack.**
When you see feedback as an attack, your response will not be a productive one.
((Hypothetically, What is a wife to do if she has an unmet need but knows her h will lash out at her, for his injured ego?))
When someone feels attacked or feels inadequate - their response will worsen the situation.
In your own example earlier, your w told you how you could make her feel more desired, what was missing in the intimacy, etc.
You yourself said you "felt attacked, and inadequate". So you lashed out. You punished her for Your interpretation, by "giving her the cold shoulder".
I know you would not do this^^ again now. I'm not trying to belabor that example.
I'm asking if you can you see how there is a pattern in your own narrative, herein?
How can we help that narrative serve you better?
Just so you know - when I FIRST confronted my role in the failure of my m, and examined it more closely, (which I continue to do b/c it's ongoing process to learn from), it was devastating.
I wanted to believe it was ALL H. Then I saw that i did play a role in things, or at least I made several poor choices elsewhere. And this revelation brought me to my knees.
And then...I grew.
Actually, She did communicate that in the examples you give above. She wanted something from you and said what it was and now you say you didn't understand it and that it's her fault for not making it crystal clear or repeating it to you (i.e. nag).
Sounds like she wanted more affection outside the bedroom. And or more foreplay.
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The examples I gave are things I have discovered she wanted since she left. When she was talking about the intimacy 1 1/2 years ago she didn't go into detail. Her words if I remember correctly were "I feel like our intimacy is lacking" But she did not give examples of how or which part of the intimacy she was talking about, again I should've handled it completely different and asked questions at the time so I could've understood what she was talking about. I'm not playing the blame game cause it really wouldn't do any good anyways. I've been very humbled during this and have discovered a bunch of my mistakes/flaws during our marriage. I am in the process of trying to rid those bad habits that I picked up somewhere down the line in our R.
So as I attempted to spice up the love life by doing different things in the bedroom I thought I was correcting the issue she had but I was way off, and the fact that she never brought it up again led me to believe I made the necessary changes.
a lot of men say things like "since she didn't say it again, I assumed I had fixed it..."
It's frustrating to read that^^ b/c there's no behavioral change to justify believing it had been fixed. Yet a lot of h's say this. And it's sad b/c I know most men here really do care about their m's or they would not be here.
Here is something to ponder.
* "when a woman expresses an unmet need in a relationship, if it's not changed, she will feel hurt & rejected. Her belief will be that her h does not love or respect her as much as she hoped.
When she considers repeating the unmet need to her h, she will fear 2 possible reactions.
One is that the behavior will still remain unchanged - revealing to her again, that her h does not care for her as she needs. AND OR she fears she will be portrayed as a "nag" who is "always complaining/nagging me". (& i.e. That she's a b1tch.)
Sometimes the w becomes resentful, silently. Sometimes she escalates her comments but in another subject, sniping about an unrelated matter to avoid feeling rejected in the same way as she was before. Neither party addresses what is underlying the problem, which is her unmet needs - her feeling unloved.
Some husbands use the term "nagging" as an excuse to justify ignoring her need (i.e. tuning her out) or to shame her into silence.
What we know is that neither spouse will be satisfied in the m, with ^^ these types of interactions."*
All the while she was continuing to build up little pices of resentment along the way.
So then let's figure out what You would like to work on here.
When you felt distance grow between you and your w, how did You approach it?
What would you do differently now, if you had another chance?
**Here is a key concept to take in..
Constructive feedback Or someone telling you they need something more from you, is not an attack.**
When you see feedback as an attack, your response will not be a productive one.
((Hypothetically, What is a wife to do if she has an unmet need but knows her h will lash out at her, for his injured ego?))
I'm asking if you can you see how there is a pattern in your own narrative, herein?
How can we help that narrative serve you better?
Then I saw that i did play a role in things, or at least I made several poor choices elsewhere. And this revelation brought me to my knees.
And then...I grew.
You couldn't be more right about this, my responses to her trying to voice her concerns/feelings to me were horrendous looking back on it now. Again I'm NOT blaming her but I think I took some of the things as an attack cause when she would voice those feelings her tone would come through with frustration so that set the tone for my reaction (not an excuse just an observation of my own memory). Obviously she WAS frustrated cause she wasn't getting her R needs fully met. Seeing all this now I can see so clearly how we would have such a stronger M if/when she would ever give it a chance.
When you felt distance grow between you and your w, how did You approach it?
What would you do differently now, if you had another chance?[/color]
I noticed some distance starting to grow around Feb of this year. That was also the same time we were about to start our 4th IVF attempt so I Assumed she was getting stressed out about having to go through all the treatments again. Looking back (I've been doing that a lot these days) I should've approached her at that time and asked her how she was feeling instead of just saying to myself shes just stressed and has a lot on her mind about this. obviously she wasn't the only one with communication issues, maybe deep down I didn't ask cause I was afraid of the reply I would get? It's just so crazy because truly before the IVF we had great communication between each other. The IVF was truly the first real stress we had in our R and i failed miserably at it. We started the IVF before she talked to me about the lack of intimacy, so she probably also felt like I had lost desire for her during the treatments which is not even close to the truth. I admired her for how courageous she was having to get daily shots and Dr apps weekly, But
I DID NOT VOICE THOSE FEELINGS TO HER Why I didn't? I think cause the way I handle stress sometimes I just bottle it up and stay inside my own head.
I want so badly to sit down and talk to her about all of this, shes coming over tomorrow to sign some papers. I have a STRONG urge after this to tell her all of this but I know it will only make matters worse most likely. Do you think that would be a bad idea at this time? It thank you 25yearsmlc for helping dig out some of these issues that I hadn't seen as clearly as I do know. You truly have been and continue to big such a big help in opening my eyes.
I just found out that my W has been talking to an "old friend" since feb when he moved back to the area. I looked at old phone bills and they were talking at least 5 days a week and sometimes almost 2 hours at a time. I called her tonight and asked her about the guy and she said "you need to stop you're going to drive yourself crazy" she wasn't really mad which I would think she'd pissed if it was nothing. So this changes a lot, if it's not a full on A it's definitely an EA. Idk what to do now
She was talking with this guy while she was PREGNANT WITH TWINS wow just wow
Stunned your pain is palpable and I am very sorry for you and hope it gets better soon. Give yourself a gift and stop snooping. I found so many things that would make reconciliation near impossible for both of us. You know enough. The sooner you detach the sooner the cycling and despair will end. That is the only thing that will make the pain go away.
Stunned your pain is palpable and I am very sorry for you and hope it gets better soon. Give yourself a gift and stop snooping. I found so many things that would make reconciliation near impossible for both of us. You know enough. The sooner you detach the sooner the cycling and despair will end. That is the only thing that will make the pain go away.
I'm not even that mad, it's almost like a relief cause I had a feeling from day one that she was at least talking to someone else. And now I think it will help me detach cause I think I giant wall just went up around me heart. It hurts don't get me wrong but I'm not as upset as I thought I would be, but if I found this out a month ago I would've been devastated.
Well I had a moment of weakness today and asked the W if she cared to join me for a slurpee at 7 eleven after she got off work. (She loves slurpees) her reply was "I'm sorry. I can't". Idk why I asked cause I knew the answer, but she is meeting me tomorrow cause we both have to sign some documents about terminating our Ivf program. So she's fine meeting when it comes to tying up lose ends but not a casual meeting. Again I know it's only 4 weeks so I must pump the brakes
Yeah little things like this basically undo all the hard work you've put in up until now and reset you to zero. I can't tell you how many sitches I've read where someone says "I went NC on her for 3 days, today I asked her is she wanted to go have a slurpee (or whatever), she said no so I went NC again." Well guess what, that wasn't NC. NC means NO CONTACT, PERIOD. It doesn't mean no contact for a couple of days, then inviting them on a date! Because to THEM that just looks like "more of the same" behavior. "Geesh, he left me alone for a couple of days and then asks me out? Seriously? Why can't he just leave me alone?" Sandi has posted some amazing threads on here that give some incredible insight into what a WAS is thinking. You should look up her threads. It's very eye-opening. Your W doesn't want to have anything to do with you right now. Hopefully that will change with time, but for now you need to understand that and respect that.
So we just met up till full out a form for our Ivf program and had to get it notarized. As we were in the store doing that she started tearing up. I touched her arm and ask if she was ok and she started tearing up even more. When we walked outside she was crying and said it's just hard going through this and I told her it doesn't have to be this way. We talked for a while just about the situation and I started crying too at times. I told her I know you have to do what you have to do for you right now, and don't be afraid to contact me if your feelings change. Then she stopped crying and started acting like well this is the way it has to be and this is what I'm doing. She started talking again about moving her stuff out and how she doesn't want me there cause it would make it awkward for her. It's like she's got this inner battle going on. Her lips are telling me one thing but her eyes are showing some something completely different.
When we walked outside she was crying and said it's just hard going through this and I told her it doesn't have to be this way.
Uuuuuuuugh. Don't say that! Once again, that's relationship pressure. She was opening up to you. What should you do at times like that? LISTEN. VALIDATE. EMPATHIZE. If you don't know what validation looks like, read this thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566It's like she's got this inner battle going on. Her lips are telling me one thing but her eyes are showing some something completely different.
Are you familiar with Sandi's rules?
"Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared."
It seems like there's an inner battle going on because there IS!!!! She is hurting, scared, confused. Her mind is like a storm, hurricane force winds are blowing, waves are smashing against the rocks. What comes out of her mouth is basically detritus thrown out of that storm. She may say something completely different 5 minutes from now and again an hour from now. Why? Because of that raging storm. What can you do? Give her time and space. A LOT of it. More than you want to. More than you think is needed. And some more on top of that. One of my coworkers remarried his ex-wife last year. You know how long they were apart? 8 YEARS. It's been 5 years for me and it's only been in the last 6 months or so that my ex has suddenly warmed up to me and started asking me to help with projects around her house and such. A lot of people come here thinking things will be resolved in a couple of weeks, or a month. No, when we say this is a marathon we are not kidding.
No you're right I shouldn't of said that but at the time it just came out and I didn't even realize it.
I totally agree she has a hurricane of emotions right now especially since it's been just 4 weeks. She has definitely said some hurtful things and I do detacth myself as best I can and say to myself what she's saying isn't true. Maybe her tears were guilt? Maybe not? Idk and I don't think she even knows at this point. I do know that when she was sitting in her car I reached in to give her a quick hug and she grabbed me tightly and acted like she didtn want to let go. Another action I'll believe over her words right there.
Dang it Stunned, I hate reading yours, it reminds me of my sitch a lot. Some things that are helping me that you could consider:
1) You mentioned a song, I quit listening to music altogether. I was grocery shopping one day and our wedding song came on, I just parked my cart full of groceries and left. Music is hard with me.
2) They talk a lot about GAL which is right. I look at it a different way sometimes. Don't be bored. The second I'm bored, thoughts creep in. Read, run, slap yourself in the face, whatever.
3) Talk to humans face to face, or at least by phone. I used to be social but trapped myself in my house for months. Talk about no good.
4) Ignore these signs, dreams, clues, and all other hints. My wife would kiss me, hug me for an extended period of time, cry and say it was never supposed to be like this. Next week she is sno sking with other man. Many more examples but you get the picture. Unless she is begging and pleading to make yall work, I wouldn't put much thought in her words and actions.
5) My hardest, accept that this is happening. The more I denied it, the more delusional I got. About 3 weeks ago, I kicked my bathroom door off the hinges and cracked the tile on my bathroom cabinets. Guess what I'm trying to say is accept your reality at the moment and fix whatever you need to internally. My emotions got so bottled up I exploded. Now I have to fix by bathroom. Keep the collateral damage to a minimum.
Many of these are defensive plays, only you know what to do for your offense. Do whatever you need to improve yourself. Maybe something you neglected for a long time. NOW IS YOUR TIME.
I sincerely hope your sitch is an anomaly and gets resolved quickly to your favor. I'm on 9 months of separation, this isn't a quick process.
I know I probably handled it poorly but when I see her opening up for a min like that it was like my words were coming out before I even realized it. Because my detachment is not as strong as I thought it was. And It really just seems like she's second guessing her self constantly when we are face to face but over text she's a lot colder it seems. So it just feels to me like when she's around me it changes her feelings in a way. Or maybe it's just guilt for hurting me idk? I can't ask her cause it would be a complete lie whatever came out of her mouth!
My bday is today and she actually did text me this morning first thing happy bday and told me she left a present in our computer room for me. Idk how to respond to that text, and I don't even want to open the gift. It just doesn't seem right opening it without her here. I want to tell her I'll open it when the times right but I don't think I should bday that or maybe I shouldn't reply at all to her text?
Oops I missed it but Happy Birthday!!!!
My bday is today and she actually did text me this morning first thing happy bday and told me she left a present in our computer room for me. Idk how to respond to that text, and I don't even want to open the gift. It just doesn't seem right opening it without her here. I want to tell her I'll open it when the times right but I don't think I should bday that or maybe I shouldn't reply at all to her text?
Remember the "friendly neighbor" rule. That's how your communications should be. If a friendly neighbor gave you a present how would you react? Probably with something like "wow that's awesome, thank you!" That's how you should reply. As to when to open it, you might just ask her "is it OK if I open it now or did you want me to wait until you're here?" That would be the polite thing to do. Just don't turn it into a relationship talk!
Oops I missed it but Happy Birthday!!!!
My bday is today and she actually did text me this morning first thing happy bday and told me she left a present in our computer room for me. Idk how to respond to that text, and I don't even want to open the gift. It just doesn't seem right opening it without her here. I want to tell her I'll open it when the times right but I don't think I should bday that or maybe I shouldn't reply at all to her text?
Remember the "friendly neighbor" rule. That's how your communications should be. If a friendly neighbor gave you a present how would you react? Probably with something like "wow that's awesome, thank you!" That's how you should reply. As to when to open it, you might just ask her "is it OK if I open it now or did you want me to wait until you're here?" That would be the polite thing to do. Just don't turn it into a relationship talk!
I just replied with a thank you that's very sweet of you for leaving a present I'll open it when the times right. And just left it at that
Oops I missed it but Happy Birthday!!!!
!
Thank you!!
Yes, Happy Birthday!!!!
Yes, Happy Birthday!!!!
Thank you, it's definitely a harder day than others just because of everything
Happy Birthday. This is so difficult but really try to detach yourself and as previous post think about how you would respond to a friend rather than your WAS. We need to present ourselves positively to them so we are always the best choice. However remember this is not about convincing then they want you it's about regaining yourself and them wanting you because of that. Hope you had a lovely day x
Happy Birthday. This is so difficult but really try to detach yourself and as previous post think about how you would respond to a friend rather than your WAS. We need to present ourselves positively to them so we are always the best choice. However remember this is not about convincing then they want you it's about regaining yourself and them wanting you because of that. Hope you had a lovely day x
Thank you, it really is difficult especially the the other day when she started crying it just instantly made me forget the dbing and I got lost in my emotions for a bit too. I felt wow she's dropping her guard for a sec maybe this is my chance to say how I feel. But who knows the real reason she was crying.
Happy B-Day stunned, although I get that it probably isn't.
Look, before I say anything, I want to acknowledge that I was you, people gave me advice and I gave reasons why my W was different than all the others, so I was going to do something different.
So you now know that your W is wayward, at the least she's having an EA. What are you going to do? Based on my past, I'm going to guess that your going to keep a close eye on her, make sure it doesn't go PA, your going to show her you love her so much she would never let it get that far.. It won't work.
It's the hardest thing to do after being shell shocked, but man up (or at least act like it). She is cheating on you, and your saying thank you sweetie. Stop, stop trying to think of how you can say something to her in a way that will nice her back, it doesn't work.
You want to be a strong, confident man, someone that she knows can protect her and rock her world, not cower and eat a crap sandwhich because that's all she feels like serving. Would John Wayne say thank you for the gift sweetie, I'll open it at appropriate time? I'm guessing not. Look, I'm just saying your not going to nice (or polite) her back.
What are you doing to be a better you? What are your 180s? I don't remember seeing anything on that.
I'll leave you with this quote from accuray, because it's dead on...
Accu, hopefully you don't mind..
Here's another way to look at Persuing that accuray posted on another thread and it resonated with everything I've learned about R since high school.
Relationships start as a meeting of equals. In order for your relationship to "restart" it needs to get back onto equal footing. When she leaves and you pursue her, you are "one down" in the relationship, you are less than. She knows that you're there for the taking. She would have to exert zero effort to get you back. Do people value that which they do not have to work for?
Here's what the typical walkaway wife sees in their husband:
Here's this guy who had these shortcomings in our marriage. I told him to make things better and he didn't, and it got so bad, I had to leave. Now that he's put me through all this pain, he's desperately trying to convince me that he can change and everything will be different. He's sad all the time, he's passive aggressive, he shames me and tries to make me feel guilty. He tries to make me the bad guy in all this when he's the one who drove me to it. He won't accept that I want to move on and is basically clinging onto my leg and holding me back. That's not who I want to be with.
Here's the vision for you:
She sees that you're just fine without her. She sees that you're happy, you're going out and living your life. You're an amazing father and truly enjoy your parenting time. You're exercising, you're eating right, you've upgraded your wardrobe. There's a new swagger in your step. She suspects, and then fears, that you are NOT there for the taking. That if she wants you back, that's not a very certain proposal at all.
Which picture is she more intrigued by? Which picture has any chance of succeeding?
In the first case, she's going to give you platitudes and try to do the minimum she can to feel the least guilty, but her whole focus is on getting away, and getting you to accept that she's going. In that mindframe, she's not going to hear anything you read from a letter. She's not interested in seeing changes. She's interested in getting away.
In the second case, there's nothing to get away from because there's no pursuit. Suddenly the safety net is gone and she has space to evaluate what she's doing. Things are not at all certain anymore. There is no longer a singular focus.
I had a friend who discovered that his wife had cheated on him. He confronted her and she unloaded on him, anger, all the things he had done wrong, etc. He said "I may not have always been the best husband, but I was committed to you. If I hurt you along the way I'm sorry. You cheated on me, good luck with that." Then he completely shut her out, went dark, and went on with his life.
To her, that was like smelling salts, he didn't buy into the revisionist history, or the "he's the bad guy" or any of it, and suddenly she had nothing to go back to. The affair quickly ran its course and she came back remorseful and apologetic, and he was able to dictate the terms by which he may be interested in trying again.
In short, he was not "one down" when they came back together, if anything things were tipped in his favor. She understood his boundaries, what he would and would not accept, and had seen that he would stand up for himself, and was perfectly capable of living his own life without her. She wasn't on the hook for anything.
In that context, they're both in the relationship because they want to be, not because they feel like they have to be, and that's an important distinction.
Give her space, no more emotional appeals. Focus on you and who you want to be and the rest will take care of itself. If you want her back, the shortest path is a straight line in the other direction. Anything else is just prolonging the inevitable.
Acc
[/quote]
Happy B-Day stunned, although I get that it probably isn't.
Look, before I say anything, I want to acknowledge that I was you, people gave me advice and I gave reasons why my W was different than all the others, so I was going to do something different.
So you now know that your W is wayward, at the least she's having an EA. What are you going to do? Based on my past, I'm going to guess that your going to keep a close eye on her, make sure it doesn't go PA, your going to show her you love her so much she would never let it get that far.. It won't work.
It's the hardest thing to do after being shell shocked, but man up (or at least act like it). She is cheating on you, and your saying thank you sweetie. Stop, stop trying to think of how you can say something to her in a way that will nice her back, it doesn't work.
You want to be a strong, confident man, someone that she knows can protect her and rock her world, not cower and eat a crap sandwhich because that's all she feels like serving. Would John Wayne say thank you for the gift sweetie, I'll open it at appropriate time? I'm guessing not. Look, I'm just saying your not going to nice (or polite) her back.
What are you doing to be a better you? What are your 180s? I don't remember seeing anything on that.
I'll leave you with this quote from accuray, because it's dead on...
Accu, hopefully you don't mind..
Here's another way to look at Persuing that accuray posted on another thread and it resonated with everything I've learned about R since high school.
Relationships start as a meeting of equals. In order for your relationship to "restart" it needs to get back onto equal footing. When she leaves and you pursue her, you are "one down" in the relationship, you are less than. She knows that you're there for the taking. She would have to exert zero effort to get you back. Do people value that which they do not have to work for?
Here's what the typical walkaway wife sees in their husband:
Here's this guy who had these shortcomings in our marriage. I told him to make things better and he didn't, and it got so bad, I had to leave. Now that he's put me through all this pain, he's desperately trying to convince me that he can change and everything will be different. He's sad all the time, he's passive aggressive, he shames me and tries to make me feel guilty. He tries to make me the bad guy in all this when he's the one who drove me to it. He won't accept that I want to move on and is basically clinging onto my leg and holding me back. That's not who I want to be with.
Here's the vision for you:
She sees that you're just fine without her. She sees that you're happy, you're going out and living your life. You're an amazing father and truly enjoy your parenting time. You're exercising, you're eating right, you've upgraded your wardrobe. There's a new swagger in your step. She suspects, and then fears, that you are NOT there for the taking. That if she wants you back, that's not a very certain proposal at all.
Which picture is she more intrigued by? Which picture has any chance of succeeding?
In the first case, she's going to give you platitudes and try to do the minimum she can to feel the least guilty, but her whole focus is on getting away, and getting you to accept that she's going. In that mindframe, she's not going to hear anything you read from a letter. She's not interested in seeing changes. She's interested in getting away.
In the second case, there's nothing to get away from because there's no pursuit. Suddenly the safety net is gone and she has space to evaluate what she's doing. Things are not at all certain anymore. There is no longer a singular focus.
I had a friend who discovered that his wife had cheated on him. He confronted her and she unloaded on him, anger, all the things he had done wrong, etc. He said "I may not have always been the best husband, but I was committed to you. If I hurt you along the way I'm sorry. You cheated on me, good luck with that." Then he completely shut her out, went dark, and went on with his life.
To her, that was like smelling salts, he didn't buy into the revisionist history, or the "he's the bad guy" or any of it, and suddenly she had nothing to go back to. The affair quickly ran its course and she came back remorseful and apologetic, and he was able to dictate the terms by which he may be interested in trying again.
In short, he was not "one down" when they came back together, if anything things were tipped in his favor. She understood his boundaries, what he would and would not accept, and had seen that he would stand up for himself, and was perfectly capable of living his own life without her. She wasn't on the hook for anything.
In that context, they're both in the relationship because they want to be, not because they feel like they have to be, and that's an important distinction.
Give her space, no more emotional appeals. Focus on you and who you want to be and the rest will take care of itself. If you want her back, the shortest path is a straight line in the other direction. Anything else is just prolonging the inevitable.
Acc
[/quote]
Thank you for that, it's very good advice and you're right although she says it's just an old friend that she's talking too and that it's not that kinda talking I find it hard to believe. The guy looks like a bum too. You're right tho I have to detach fully and act as if I'm moving on. My 180s are trying to go nc but I've been failing in that lately. And to just show her a confident man and up beat and happy like the man she fell in love with. I just got lost in her emotions when she broke down but I'm gonna try like hell not too if that happens again.
So we just met up till full out a form for our Ivf program and had to get it notarized. As we were in the store doing that she started tearing up. I touched her arm and ask if she was ok and she started tearing up even more. When we walked outside she was crying and said it's just hard going through this and I told her it doesn't have to be this way. We talked for a while just about the situation and I started crying too at times. I told her I know you have to do what you have to do for you right now, and don't be afraid to contact me if your feelings change. Then she stopped crying
not to beat a dead horse but...are you seeing an IC? This^^ is an odd reaction imo.
Not saying you're a jerk! Just don't know what you thought that wording would achieve other than snapping her back to the armor up.
Stunned
Sorry your birthday was not what you'd hoped for. I Know it hurts.
and before you let every man who has a wife in an affair, or lump your wife into every other "wayward" situation, let me say 2 things.
1) while affairs are always bad choices, they are not all alike. Just as broken hearts have universal themes, we all each have unique pieces we have to manage and navigate.
2) unlike 95% of the WAW's around here, your w had IVF hormones for months, which have significant emotional side effects...oh and wait a second, she also
LOST TWINS just a short time ago!!
Not to mention some underlying issues in which you play a role.
And btw, I'm not even sure she can physically have an affair, at this point. I sure as heck would not lump her into the routine "wayward wife" group.
Good grief.
Plus, but if you focus all your energy on whether she's seeing someone else or confiding too much, having an "EA",
you will lose the opportunity to work on YOU.
Please stay on your path.
not to beat a dead horse but...are you seeing an IC? This^^ is an odd reaction imo.
Not saying you're a jerk! Just don't know what you thought that wording would achieve other than snapping her back to the armor up.[/color]
While we were talking at the time she was crying and nodding her head like she was agreeing with me. But once we stopped she kinda gathered herself and then went back to saying this is the way it has to be. I was trying to let her know that I understand she feels she needs to check out right now as she says but that the doors open for her. I agree wasnt the best thing to say.... maybe the worst thing to say but she was nodding like she was agreeing so idk. My detaching needs much improvement. As far as I know shes coming over tomorrow with her folks to get her bigger furniture, she asked if I could leave the house for a few hours to make it easier for her. I said im sorry but this time I have things to do at the house so I'll be home but I'll stay out of your way. I've accommodated her each time shes come over and I've left the house but this time I'm kinda trying a 180 to see what happens. I wanna say to her shes made it hard on me since the day she left but I will not tell her that.
Stunned
Sorry your birthday was not what you'd hoped for. I Know it hurts.
and before you let every man who has a wife in an affair, or lump your wife into every other "wayward" situation, let me say 2 things.
1) while affairs are always bad choices, they are not all alike. Just as broken hearts have universal themes, we all each have unique pieces we have to manage and navigate.
2) unlike 95% of the WAW's around here, your w had IVF hormones for months, which have significant emotional side effects...oh and wait a second, she also
LOST TWINS just a short time ago!!
Not to mention some underlying issues in which you play a role.
And btw, I'm not even sure she can physically have an affair, at this point. I sure as heck would not lump her into the routine "wayward wife" group.
Good grief.
Plus, but if you focus all your energy on whether she's seeing someone else or confiding too much, having an "EA",
you will lose the opportunity to work on YOU.
Please stay on your path.
Thank you 25yearsmlc I needed someone to say that cause I too still don't think shes having a PA, if anything its a EA. We actually discussed this guy over text yesterday too and she swears its not that kinda talk that they're having. They are just talking about old times and stuff like that. But still they're talking a heck of a lot so shes getting some sort of emotional fulfillment out of it for sure. Her words are "I'm not leaving you for him. We have issues that cannot be worked out from my end and I need to move on from it". This text was before our meeting where she was crying so again shes just so up and down back and forth. I still don't believe her when she says she just wants to move on. But again I'm sure as of right now she truly does believe the words she is saying.
You mentioned that trying to go NC is your 180, so I wanted to kind of explain 180s then ask again.
DB relies heavily on you becoming a better person, and through that process gaining the attraction of your spouse once again. 180s are things that your going to do to make steps towards becoming a better person. Generally you need to look at yourself, and figure out what you do that would be considered a negative by someone else (or yourself) and do the exact opposite (180° Is the exact opposite direction your going now).
Some examples of 180s: make bed daily; wear cologne; dress better; shave daily; limit tv watching;
A 180 can be a specific thing your going to do to be better. Once you start doing these things daily, you will start to feel better about yourself, you will be proud of who you are becoming.
Key to 180s, do them for yourself, not to win your W back, do it to be a better you.
You mentioned that trying to go NC is your 180, so I wanted to kind of explain 180s then ask again.
DB relies heavily on you becoming a better person, and through that process gaining the attraction of your spouse once again. 180s are things that your going to do to make steps towards becoming a better person. Generally you need to look at yourself, and figure out what you do that would be considered a negative by someone else (or yourself) and do the exact opposite (180° Is the exact opposite direction your going now).
Some examples of 180s: make bed daily; wear cologne; dress better; shave daily; limit tv watching;
A 180 can be a specific thing your going to do to be better. Once you start doing these things daily, you will start to feel better about yourself, you will be proud of who you are becoming.
Key to 180s, do them for yourself, not to win your W back, do it to be a better you.
Agreed and the other 180s I'm doing are things like not get defensive when someone try's to talk to me about something I disagree with. Being more patient and listening when she or someone is talking to me and wait to speak until she's done. As well as putting her feelings ahead of mine if and when we Reconcile.
I'm debating weather I should change the locks after the info I found out about her having at least an EA? She constantly comes into the house when I'm not home packing and moving her stuff. But I fear that if I change the locks that will push her way out to the point of no return? I need suggestion please!
there are those who will say an EA is worse than a physical affair and those who are focussed on the physical parts only or mostly.
Obviously neither is going to help a marriage (with the possible exception of when an EA "partner" encourages the spouse to work on their m. I myself have probably been in those shoes a few times and not just with brothers).
In your situation, we know your w reached out to you and for reasons we don't need to harp on, she did not feel supported. She was in grief about losing the twins and this being the 4th time of IVF and the most promising, only to end again. (And I'm sure you were you very sad too).
So to ME, anyhow, I can see her reaching out to someone who makes her feel better about herself.
But given the physical circumstances (how long has it been since the twins passed?)
and the hormones and the weight issues, I'm assume she's starving for reassurances she felt she could not get from you, and feels unattractive. I would guess it's some guy from the past who knew her at her physical best, and that she probably won't meet in person for a long time.
But I don't "know" any of this^^, okay?
What I DO Know is that I find myself -after 35 years of m and 2 years of dating, wanting to be part of a couple OR
at least to have a man who cares for me, occupying my focus
instead of a soon to be ex h. Even though I know this would be reactive and probably not great for the man, I do feel an emotional void.
And suddenly I ALMOST have compassion for h and his A b/c he's in his adventure land, with no family or long time friends. Just his new fan base.
The one or 2 mutual friends we have there, are not applauding or relating to his behavior so he was for sure feeling alienated (Self inflicted, I know, but still valid to him). Our kids are not in touch with him and at some level the idea that he's lost them for good - which he must fight with all his energy - must be terrifying.
The OW feeds his ego and assuages his fears. H is in pain, and while he can BE SO HAPPY on fb, the chats or loss thereof, with the kids, cannot feel good.
So I have moments when I DO understand his neediness emotionally.
Because even with my siblings and nieces/nephews and friends from childhood nearby, heck, I'm lonely many nights. Truth be told, the last year of our m, if I am totally honest, were lonely for me too.
My mom had died suddenly, and we had empty nest syndrome the same month, witnessed a traumatic event, AND had moved yet again for h's job and he was emotionally avoidant. I knew 2 people nearby and I did not know them well.
If a kind sympathetic man had been nearby, I am pretty sure I'd have confided in him about my grief and fear and insecurity.
Just fyi
I'm debating weather I should change the locks after the info I found out about her having at least an EA? She constantly comes into the house when I'm not home packing and moving her stuff. But I fear that if I change the locks that will push her way out to the point of no return? I need suggestion please!
seriously?
What is your goal??Besides, is the house in your name only? You can't lock her out of a place with her name on the lease or house.
Even if it were just in your name, again I ask,
what is your goal?
You think her getting her stuff and you discovering that she's texting or talking to another man means you can keep her out of the house where her things are?
Courts don't like property confiscation as you meting out punishment.
Is this^^ a behavior that would happen inside the m when you felt insecure or angry?
You think she'll slap her forehead and say "NOW I want to come home!!"???
Stop being reactive. Hire a DB coach asap. You are not going down the NC or detachment path - you continue to react and the desire in you to "fix/punish" or force certainty in a situation without certainty, is not going to bode well for you.
I'm debating weather I should change the locks after the info I found out about her having at least an EA? She constantly comes into the house when I'm not home packing and moving her stuff. But I fear that if I change the locks that will push her way out to the point of no return? I need suggestion please!
How else could she possibly react??
If this^^ is your idea of moving towards a reconciliation, you really are not thinking things out.
The miscarriage was April 24th, and I too can see her reaching out to a man for that reassurance as well and that's what frightens me. They started talking in February so even during the pregnancy she was talking to him. She said she has known this guy since she was a teenager so I'm sure it feels good to her for a guy that probably had some sort of crush on her reunite with her. As far as the physical side she was allowed by the dr to have sex 4 weeks after the miscarriage so she could if she wanted to. But I'm praying that isn't happening. Maybe like you said she could still be self conscious of her weight and not ready to meet in person but I fear that they have. Either way I must detache and I'm not sure I should bring it up to her again cause she now at least a least knows I am aware of OM. And she knows how I feel it was very disrespectful to talk to him behind my back. So maybe that'll make her think more about it. But I'm still on the fence about changing the locks?
Yeah you're right it's a angry hurt reaction and the fact the friends are telling me I need to is why it's putting the thought in my head. The house is only in my name and I bought it before we were married. As of now I don't have the money to hire a dbing coach for the fact that I'm stuck with more bills since she left
The miscarriage was April 24th, and I too can see her reaching out to a man for that reassurance as well and that's what frightens me. They started talking in February so even during the pregnancy she was talking to him.
what were you two up to then? B/c you mentioned something happening in February in an earlier post but I don't recall what it was, specifically.
She said she has known this guy since she was a teenager so I'm sure it feels good to her for a guy that probably had some sort of crush on her reunite with her. As far as the physical side she was allowed by the dr to have sex 4 weeks after the miscarriage so she could if she wanted to.
Okay not to be too graphic, but I've had 3 kids. (And I like sex!) But that ^^ timeline only means it's safe then, not saying it's comfortable.
But I'm praying that isn't happening. Maybe like you said she could still be self conscious of her weight and not ready to meet in person but I fear that they have.
where does this fear lead you? I mean I GET IT. I know the mental movies of seeing my h of 35 years and only lover for 37, with OW.
If I let it in my heart, it would kill a part of me. But I detach enough to say "wait a second, this cannot be of more value than our m. This is new. This cannot be about me/us. It's so over the top - (& the unique m circumstances of each m etc)"
and this^ helps me stay out of the darkness. Our s31 said "good riddance to lunacy" and it helped me to hear someone who loves us both, get me to a point where
I could see that this was
not anything I could control AND THEREFORE I had to let go of it.
Put a STOP SIGN in your head if you need to, and redirect your thoughts. Water off the duck's back.
You have to. For you.
Either way I must detache and I'm not sure I should bring it up to her again cause she now at least a least knows I am aware of OM.
DETACHING will help you avoid a counter productive talk about OM. She knows you know. What is your goal about discussing it? I am not saying there's never a reason, but you better darn well know what your reason/goal is before you blurt out something.
Issue NO ultimatums unless you are 100% positive you will enforce them. I don't think or feel you are near being positive.
As for Detaching, I just don't know how to do it without GAL. One leads to the other and it's GAL first, detachment second.
What are your GAL?
And she knows how I feel it was very disrespectful to talk to him behind my back. So maybe that'll make her think more about it. But I'm still on the fence about changing the locks?
changing the locks is a bad idea unless you have reason to believe she's taking things that belong (& matter) to you.
If she takes pictures of you two, that are "yours"< do you really want to stop that?
But sure, if she's taking valuables or such, then okay and change the locks.
But there's no way that she will feel closer to you for doing it.
Not saying you'll never reconcile down the road, just saying it looks punitive unless she's stealing.
If she is indisputably taking your valuables, of course you need to do what you need to do.
[quote=Stunned]Yeah you're right it's a angry hurt reaction and the fact the friends are telling me I need to
if they are angry at her, factor that in with their "advice". They mean well but everyone on the DB site has to distance themselves from friends who are not on board with trying to salvage the m.
is why it's putting the thought in my head. The house is only in my name and I bought it before we were married.
Sounds as if it's yours then. Your w has nowhere to go but to her parents. That's sad but it's reality.
Can you paint a room or decorate something to make it more your own now? I don't think that would hurt your w so much as clarify that she's moving out and you are moving on which does NOT make you less attractive...
she'd need to know your m would be different/better than before, to want back in.
What are you DOING (not saying) to show that you are changing/growing in some way?
The miscarriage was April 24th, and I too can see her reaching out to a man for that reassurance as well and that's what frightens me. They started talking in February so even during the pregnancy she was talking to him.
what were you two up to then? B/c you mentioned something happening in February in an earlier post but I don't recall what it was, specifically.
[/color]Before I had posted what she wrote in a valentines day card for me, She said how she loves me more everyday I hope this year brings us ever more joy. Thanks for being such a great husband.[color:#33CC00]
She said she has known this guy since she was a teenager so I'm sure it feels good to her for a guy that probably had some sort of crush on her reunite with her. As far as the physical side she was allowed by the dr to have sex 4 weeks after the miscarriage so she could if she wanted to.
Okay not to be too graphic, but I've had 3 kids. (And I like sex!) But that ^^ timeline only means it's safe then, not saying it's comfortable.
[/color]I agree but she puts a lot of weight on the intimate parts of a relationship. so thats what worries me.[color:#33CC00]
But I'm praying that isn't happening. Maybe like you said she could still be self conscious of her weight and not ready to meet in person but I fear that they have.
where does this fear lead you? I mean I GET IT. I know the mental movies of seeing my h of 35 years and only lover for 37, with OW.
If I let it in my heart, it would kill a part of me. But I detach enough to say "wait a second, this cannot be of more value than our m. This is new. This cannot be about me/us. It's so over the top - (& the unique m circumstances of each m etc)"
and this^ helps me stay out of the darkness. Our s31 said "good riddance to lunacy" and it helped me to hear someone who loves us both, get me to a point where
I could see that this was
not anything I could control AND THEREFORE I had to let go of it.
Put a STOP SIGN in your head if you need to, and redirect your thoughts. Water off the duck's back.
You have to. For you.
[/color]You're completely correct the images will eventually destroy me so I must realize I cant control what shes doing I can only control myself and to stop going down dark alleys. [color:#33CC00]
Either way I must detache and I'm not sure I should bring it up to her again cause she now at least a least knows I am aware of OM.
DETACHING will help you avoid a counter productive talk about OM. She knows you know. What is your goal about discussing it? I am not saying there's never a reason, but you better darn well know what your reason/goal is before you blurt out something.
Issue NO ultimatums unless you are 100% positive you will enforce them. I don't think or feel you are near being positive.
As for Detaching, I just don't know how to do it without GAL. One leads to the other and it's GAL first, detachment second.
What are your GAL?
[/color]
My GAL has been working out more even tho I've always worked out. I've been doing projects around the house. My big one right now is building a 30x18x12 garage. Spending more time with friends and going fishing more as well as mountain biking more.[color:#33CC00]
And she knows how I feel it was very disrespectful to talk to him behind my back. So maybe that'll make her think more about it. But I'm still on the fence about changing the locks?
changing the locks is a bad idea unless you have reason to believe she's taking things that belong (& matter) to you.
If she takes pictures of you two, that are "yours"< do you really want to stop that?
But sure, if she's taking valuables or such, then okay and change the locks.
But there's no way that she will feel closer to you for doing it.
Not saying you'll never reconcile down the road, just saying it looks punitive unless she's stealing.
If she is indisputably taking your valuables, of course you need to do what you need to do.
[quote=Stunned]Yeah you're right it's a angry hurt reaction and the fact the friends are telling me I need to
if they are angry at her, factor that in with their "advice". They mean well but everyone on the DB site has to distance themselves from friends who are not on board with trying to salvage the m.
[/color]They get angry when I tell them things about how shes handling the situation because they care about me, but you're right they are just reacting to that anger with an angry heart. I need to focus on not doing the same and detaching better.[color:#33CC00]
is why it's putting the thought in my head. The house is only in my name and I bought it before we were married.
Sounds as if it's yours then. Your w has nowhere to go but to her parents. That's sad but it's reality.
Can you paint a room or decorate something to make it more your own now? I don't think that would hurt your w so much as clarify that she's moving out and you are moving on which does NOT make you less attractive...
she'd need to know your m would be different/better than before, to want back in.
What are you DOING (not saying) to show that you are changing/growing in some way?
[color:#33CC00][/color]
She's already taken down all the pictures and wall signs and stuff so I've been slowly putting my own back up. I'm being much more patient when she does talk to me and I allow her to speak and end before I say anything. I've been showing her nothing but grace each time we talk or text and not anger (even tho shes killing me). I've been learning and understanding why she feels the way she does and why she feels like I took her for granted and Stopped showing her as much how much I cherish her. I've been working on validating her feelings and what she wants to happen next. Even tho I voice my concerns and frustrations on here I try my best not to ever let her see that, but a few times I have gotten weak and I continue to work on that.
Thank you again 25years, you always help me dig deeper into my thoughts and feelings and make me think more about my actions and the affects they may have.
I shouldn't be drinking cause I miss her way worse right now and I told my friends to take my phone cause I badly want to text her that I freakin miss her so much
So I stayed strong and did not call or text her, alcohol should be avoided at this time for me I think. Today is exactly one month since she walked out. I do feel like we've made some tiny little progress even tho she's still adamant about it being over. Like I posted earlier she did break down just a few days ago and opened up for a bit while we were together. She said she doesn't want to give me false hope, not sure if that means she's still conflicted or what? And she did text me early in the morning on my birthday so she was at least thinking about me that day. So who knows, we haven't talked since her text to me on Friday for my bday and I think I'll try my hardest to stay NC. Like I said I'm not sure I feel it's progress but the first couple weeks she did not want anything to do with me at all so im hoping the hurt feelings are subsiding some. But I know it'll still be a long journey with plenty of ups and downs I just pray the ups will out number the downs. But I am prepared for the worst.
Its definitely a long journey. It will be longer than you want it to, so work on accepting that you are very early in the process.
I've also sworn off alcohol for the time being. My advice is to stay NC. Give her lots and lots of space. Make her start to wonder what you are up to.
Its definitely a long journey. It will be longer than you want it to, so work on accepting that you are very early in the process.
I've also sworn off alcohol for the time being. My advice is to stay NC. Give her lots and lots of space. Make her start to wonder what you are up to.
Yeah I'm gonna try my hardest to stay NC, even tho she keeps saying she just wants to get the rest of her stuff out of the house so we dot have any reminders and can move on. It's really hard hearing that but I have to say to myself don't believe anything they say and only half of what they do. It's just a month and I'm she's still very hurt is what I'm believing
Still trying to figure out exactly what w meant when she said she doesn't want to give me false hope? I'm
Guess I'm she's saying she doesn't want to say there's a chance of R when she feels there is no chance......
Stunned, 25 has offered some great advice! Also re-read Coconut's comments on 180's. I was going to post much the same thing as when I was reading through your recent posts I got the impression you misunderstand what a 180 is. It doesn't have anything to do with NC, it's more about personal development and changing things that are weak areas for you.
Yeah I'm gonna try my hardest to stay NC, even tho she keeps saying she just wants to get the rest of her stuff out of the house so we dot have any reminders and can move on.
Just to be clear, NC doesn't mean ignore her. If she's contacting you to coordinate removing her stuff, then do respond. NC just means don't INITIATE contact.
It's just a month and I'm she's still very hurt is what I'm believing
Very much so.
Still trying to figure out exactly what w meant when she said she doesn't want to give me false hope? I'm
Guess I'm she's saying she doesn't want to say there's a chance of R when she feels there is no chance......
Yes, exactly. I think every LBSer ever has heard that line, and most of us heard it MANY times. It's part of the reason the WAS suddenly becomes so cold and distant after years and years of being anything but. Once they decide they want out, they're scared to death that any little show of affection will be misinterpreted as them changing their mind. So they turn into ice queens. It doesn't mean they don't care anymore, they do. They care a lot more than they want you to know, so they shut it all down. Every now and then you'll see a glimpse of "old W". I remember a few weeks after BD I had laid down next to one of my D's to wake her up. W came in and laid on the other side of her. D and I were playing and laughing and I glanced up at W and saw that old look on her face, that look that said "I love you more than anything in the world" that I had seen a thousand times before, and then suddenly it just vanished. I think she briefly forgot BD and slipped back to her old self, then had to check it. The WAS has an internal struggle going on, they're torn between their old life and the unknown- the new life they think they want but are not sure about. But on the outside it's cool, calm and collected for the most part.
Still trying to figure out exactly what w meant when she said she doesn't want to give me false hope? I'm
Guess I'm she's saying she doesn't want to say there's a chance of R when she feels there is no chance......
Yes, exactly. I think every LBSer ever has heard that line, and most of us heard it MANY times. It's part of the reason the WAS suddenly becomes so cold and distant after years and years of being anything but. Once they decide they want out, they're scared to death that any little show of affection will be misinterpreted as them changing their mind. So they turn into ice queens. It doesn't mean they don't care anymore, they do. They care a lot more than they want you to know, so they shut it all down. Every now and then you'll see a glimpse of "old W". I remember a few weeks after BD I had laid down next to one of my D's to wake her up. W came in and laid on the other side of her. D and I were playing and laughing and I glanced up at W and saw that old look on her face, that look that said "I love you more than anything in the world" that I had seen a thousand times before, and then suddenly it just vanished. I think she briefly forgot BD and slipped back to her old self, then had to check it. The WAS has an internal struggle going on, they're torn between their old life and the unknown- the new life they think they want but are not sure about. But on the outside it's cool, calm and collected for the most part.
You're completely correct about being ice queens. I got home from work today and saw my wife's car in my driveway. First thing I thought was hmm maybe she's coming back? Then I laughed and said nahhh she's just gettin more of her stuff. Sure enough that's what she was doing. We talked for a while just small talk, I made her laugh a few times and that was about it. She asked me once if I wanted her to take something now or later and I light heartedly said I don't want you to take anything really, she just kinda chuckled. I know prob a bad thing to say but it just came out. She's obviously still dead set on her way with no signs of slowing down. But at least she was at the house when I was home, but again I got home an hour earlier than normal so it probably caught her off guard tho she didn't seem like it did.
Could it of been her secretly wanting to see me? Or am I grasping for straws? Hah we chatted for almost 30 mins while she was packing her stuff. But I stayed calm and upbeat.
You wrote
She asked me once if I wanted her to take something now or later and I light heartedly said I don't want you to take anything really, she just kinda chuckled. I know prob a bad thing to say but it just came out.
as long as you said it with some wit and no staring at her with a microscope, no biggie. There are very few SINGLE things you can do or say that will change this a lot.
She's obviously still dead set on her way with no signs of slowing down.
totally mind reading on your part
But at least she was at the house when I was home, but again I got home an hour earlier than normal so it probably caught her off guard tho she didn't seem like it did.
mind reading^^^ again, almost every gesture or word she does/says is being analyzed by you.
Look let's be blunt for just a minute. If any of us were good mind readers, we would not be here.
It's so unproductive to do this. Besides, if your w returned tomorrow and said "OMG I'm home for good!"
You seem to think that would be totally great/easy and smooth. But it would not be.
You'd wonder what the heck happened and if you did not, you'd end up here again.
Back off give her space and work on the ONE person you actually can affect, which is you.
Start speaking in her love languages so that if she returns that, and the changes you are making authentically - would help your m be different/better than before
and you will be a better man, regardless.
Could it of been her secretly wanting to see me?
nope. You just said she didn't know you'd be there then. YOU returned early...
Or am I grasping for straws?
Yes^^
Hah we chatted for almost 30 mins while she was packing her stuff. But I stayed calm and upbeat.
Good job!^^^ Oh btw, did you go home early - because you hoped to see her? That's my guess from your wording here.
Hard to appear as if you are backing off & giving her space, that way.
PS
when you want to stare at HER behavior and HER wording and do more mind reading or guess work of what is in HER mind
look in the mirror instead.
How is YOUR personal work going??
How is your GAL?
Those^^ are what your focus needs to be, imo.
Back off give her space and work on the ONE person you actually can affect, which is you.
Start speaking in her love languages so that if she returns that, and the changes you are making authentically - would help your m be different/better than before
Her love language if physical touch, so how can I even remotely speak to her in that language at this time??
PS
when you want to stare at HER behavior and HER wording and do more mind reading or guess work of what is in HER mind
look in the mirror instead.
How is YOUR personal work going??
How is your GAL?
Those^^ are what your focus needs to be, imo.
You're right I'm a bit obsessive at trying to analyze everything little thing she does or says at this time. I have to remember its barely been a month, so all the hurt and frustration is still very fresh to her. I'm sure the excitement of starting a new life might be exciting at this time too for her.
my GAL is going ok I guess, I've continued to do projects around the house and spend more time with friends and family. Still working on my 180s in life too, trying to become the man I once was and even a better improved version of that man.
Hah we chatted for almost 30 mins while she was packing her stuff. But I stayed calm and upbeat.
Good job!^^^ Oh btw, did you go home early - because you hoped to see her? That's my guess from your wording here.
No it wasn't planned haha! I'm a UPS driver so if I finish my route earlier than normal I get to go home earlier than normal.
Back off give her space and work on the ONE person you actually can affect, which is you.
Start speaking in her love languages so that if she returns that, and the changes you are making authentically - would help your m be different/better than before
Her love language if physical touch, so how can I even remotely speak to her in that language at this time??
Most people have 2 LL's- so what's her other one?
Second, you will be able to LATER ON, hug, flirt, touch teasingly and get her to feel desirable in her LL of touch.
That's not for now.
Back off give her space and work on the ONE person you actually can affect, which is you.
Start speaking in her love languages so that if she returns that, and the changes you are making authentically - would help your m be different/better than before
Her love language if physical touch, so how can I even remotely speak to her in that language at this time??
Most people have 2 LL's- so what's her other one?
Second, you will be able to LATER ON, hug, flirt, touch teasingly and get her to feel desirable in her LL of touch.
That's not for now.Words of affirmation is her secondary one. Still at this time she probably won't believe any compliments from me to be sincere
Second, you will be able to LATER ON, hug, flirt, touch teasingly and get her to feel desirable in her LL of touch.
That's not for now.[/color]
I love your optimism! I hope later on I'll be able to as well...but who knows
your last 2 posts basically say
"I can't express love in either of my w's language so, you know, I'll read into what SHE does or says and I will remain pretty much the same as I was..."
not the path you want. Regardless of what your w does, You can change YOU.
words of affirmation are compliments. To me, it's the easiest LL to give.
Give your w a compliment without it being sexual (which is usually b/c the guy wants sex and doesn't really count as words of affirmation but more manipulation)
and try not to stare at her after you compliment her, as if you are awaiting reciprocity.
You can tell her she's good at X at her job, or she's really a loyal friend/great sister or thank her for a gesture or time of hers, towards you.
Don't come up with these out of the blue. They must be authentic and timely.
WHEN you hear that she has done something kind for you or someone else, whether you heard it from her or elsewhere, you can mention her compassion or loyalty/"you're a really good friend to do that for Sally"
when she does well at a project at work, mention her hard work & discipline or her clever or creative problem solving, (no negatives about how the boss "finally" sees her value, just the positives)
And do not pause after you say it, as if you want a reward. Do not do this b/c you want something FROM her.
You are giving something to HER - b/c you love her. Right?
Learning this^^ skill of authentic compliments for all of your r's is important and it costs you nothing.
Make sense?
I have been giving compliments like that to her. I guess I was more on the lines of thinking words of affirmation like telling her how pretty she is and things on the more intimate side. But I need to realize that those compliments can come later, right now I just need to maintain positive compliments and comments to her. Like yesterday I complimented her on how tan she looks. And making her laugh a few times was nice to cause that hadn't really happened since she left.
==I guess I was more on the lines of thinking words of affirmation like telling her how pretty she is and things on the more intimate side.==
I think you're misunderstanding what "words of affirmation" means. They are words of encouragement, not so much compliments on her appearance. For example, your W mentions some accomplishment at work and you tell her "that's fantastic, I've always been impressed with your work ethic!" or she mentions how she helped her mom plant flowers and you say "that's great, you have always been such an awesome daughter to your parents, I bet that made your mom's day!" In other words, when she tells you something she did then turn it into words of affirmation. Here's the example given in the book:
==One way to verbally affirm your spouse is to give encouraging words. Allison always wanted to be a writer, but after receiving her first rejection slip from the publisher, she gave up. One evening her husband Keith came into the den and said, “I hate to interrupt your reading, but I have to tell you this. I just finished reading your article. Allison, you are an excellent writer. This stuff ought to be published! Your words paint pictures that I can visualize. You have got to submit this stuff to some magazines.” “Do you really think so?” Allison asked. “I know so,” Keith said. “I’m telling you, this is good.”==
==Like yesterday I complimented her on how tan she looks.==
I would stay away from the physical compliments for now, and probably for months. Read the chapter again on WoA and try and come up with a game plan for how you can fill that love language without introducing a sexual component into it.
==And making her laugh a few times was nice to cause that hadn't really happened since she left.==
Laughing is good. But like 25 said, just don't attach any expectations to it or micro-analyze her reactions!
"don't microanalyze her reactions"
Bingo. A major mistake I am making
"don't microanalyze her reactions"
Bingo. A major mistake I am making
I'm
Micro analyzing again after what she said today. She said For Now this is the way it needs to be For Now..... first time she's ever said something like that. I'll try not to read into it too much
Still waiting for it to get easier seeing her steadily move her stuff out several times a week.
Still waiting for it to get easier seeing her steadily move her stuff out several times a week.
Boy I hated that too! Once she finally got all her stuff out it got a lot easier though. Once she does you can talk about boundaries, let her know it's not OK for her to just come and go as she pleases anymore (after she gets all her stuff). The boundary W and I came up with was she needed to text before she came over, then knock before coming in. I told her it was OK for her to come in after knocking, she didn't have to wait for me to open the door for her. But I felt like the knocking was a way to let her know it wasn't her house anymore. I of course extended the same courtesy to her when I went to her place. In fact all these years later we still do that when we go to each other's places- knock then walk in (that probably sounds strange to a lot of you!) Hang in there, you'll get through this!
I should add that we still have shared custody of S14, the vast majority of the "knock then walk in" visits are because we're taking S14 back and forth. We don't just casually go to each other's houses and knock and walk in and say "hey, what's up?" LOL! It probably sounded like that though!
I just got a text earlier from W saying she just moved most of the rest of her stuff out today. I didn't even respond to that text, is that bad? I honestly have nothing to say to that. It's just crazy how fast she's moving, it's only been 5 weeks and she's basically moved completely out and is acting like let's just move on and forget about the past 5 years. Just makes me wonder if there's more too what's going on with her "old friend" than she's telling me. She's making this way too easy just to up and leave like she is. But again her response to me the other day when she said "For Now this is the way it needs to be For Now" is really puzzling me?
I would not respond to her text. And as far as what she said about "for now", I'll repeat the saying that we beat to death around here- "believe none of what they say......." She's just trying to make her exit as easy for her as she can by letting you down gently. That's not to say she won't turn around later, but right now she is headed away, so don't put false hope into that statement.
Yeah I know, it was just the one statement I was hoping had value to it. But her actions are proving otherwise.
Stunned, yes there's more to OM than she's admitting.. But honestly you've been given a gift.. Her moving out is The Best thing for your sitch, more importantly for you. Your life, other than her, isn't turned upside down, you don't have to decide between watching her carry on with OM or moving out, you've been given a gift..
Go dark, black hole dark, right now don't respond to any of her texts, well maybe the first one just say "Im giving you space and doing my own thing for now, maybe I'll reach out to you later".
Nothing, nothing, nothing else, go completely dark. If you happen to run into her somewhere, validate, be nice, cut it short. And live your life as though she's permanently gone. No matter what anyone's sitch is, the first thing that needs to be done is for them to rebuild themselves, which is much harder to do when your in-house separation, or have shared custody. Right now you have the opportunity to focus on you, and you alone.
Ps- if she comes to the house, don't let her come in and talk things out, stay mysterious and don't let her in, tell her you were just heading out.
I just don't feel like there's much chance of her coming back now that she's almost totally moved out. She's getting what she wants, her words "I just want to get the rest of my [censored] and move on" she said that a few weeks ago
That's ok, I can't stress enough how much time and space changes things... Can you trust me??? Right now you need to focus on you, and that can't be easier than having most of your life intact, can you do that?
Tell me what you've always wanted to do that is now an option for you?
Stunned,
Then let her go. I guarantee she's telling people that you won't let her go. Your W can't use that line once she is gone. Then reality will set in for her. I know that this is seriously hurting you right now. But like Coconut mentioned. You have the perfect chance to go completely dark right now. Just remember that its not completely over yet.
Stunned, listen to me, I'm a little over a year past BD, I had to do in house separation for 2 months AFTER I decided I was done with marriage... A year after I was 100% done, I can tell you I'm more open to it than ever... This is a long process, but it starts with you looking out for # 1...
Bonus points will be given if you block her from your phone after you tell her what I suggested above... Give more space than what she needs
Ok, I realize that some people hold more weight in this site... But I think most agree Sandi2 is highly respected in understanding the WW (I have only lived the LBS side), so let me share this to hopefully confirm my suggestion.. Ps- don't be mean, just don't respond or cut interactions short if you can't avoid communication.
If I had to do my sitch again, I would have walked out the day I saw the texts, not said a word to her, just walked out the door and waited a couple of months before any contact. that way I could of let her do her journey without me having to see it, you can't stop the journey and I wasn't strong enough to deal with the thought of them together.
There have been WW's to come to the board saying that's exactly what their H did.......and it was him immediately walking out on her that had her in tears and begging for help from the forum, b/c it yanked her out of the fog or fantasy (whatever you want to call it) and she became the LBW.
Personally, I agree with Coconut, and believe
that action would be very effective in most cases with a WW. The problem is trying to convince the newcomers. First, they won't do it, and they have a zillion excuses for not walking away. (It all boils down to fear). The majority of LBH's in newcomers fit the descrription of the NGS......and nice-guys just don't work that way. Second, I'm sure hands would be smacked if that became routine advice on a M saving forum.
IMHO, the effectiveness comes in walking away
immediately upon learning about the OM. That's why dropping the rope works so well. However, by the time a lot of guys come to the board, they have been in their stitch for weeks/months. When the H waits around trying to do this & that, she knows he's not going anywhere anytime soon. So, she continues to play him.
Coconut,
That really seems like some great advice, idk if I have the strength to go that route at this time. But soon enough I just might cause she knows that I want more than anything for reconciliation and it hasn't phased her
Just got a notification in the mail today that she changed her address. Guess she's going through her checklist of steps to take.
So with NC, is there an amount of time that's too much time in between communication with the W. obviously I don't mean just a few weeks, but going a month or more is that too long and could it back fire and help the waw move on easier? Just curious. I've been doing good with NC since Tuesday even when she texted me Friday to inform me she moved most of the rest of her stuff out I didn't feel it necessary to respond to that text. And I've deactivated Facebook cause I know she was looking at my page cause she asked me a few questions the day we talked about things she would've only seen on my Facebook page that I posted. its probably just cause she's nosey
Stunned, if I told you a year, would you be overwhelmed?? There's just no way to know, the most important aspect to space is the WW or WAW getting past their flight (as in fight or flight) stage. It is undeniable that Persuing doesn't work, and only makes them more determined to get away.
You give them space and wait for reality to sink in.. In the meantime you work on you, then maybe, hopefully, one day two people who have found their own happiness reunite to share it with each other.
Yes that sounds extremely overwhelming and exactly like what she's wanting me to do. She wants to move all her stuff out so we don't have any reminders and can move on.