Just started reading DR and have a coaching session scheduled for Wednesday. My WAS left 5 months ago. She had told me before she was unhappy but I didn't think we really had any problems because we liked hanging out, had a lot in common and didn't really fight. By the time I realized we had a connection problem about 1.5 years ago she had built up a wall and nothing I did was helping. We tried MC and then she told me I needed to do my own counseling since my communication, not putting her first and mom issues were the main problem.
I have done about 3 months of another program where they advocate no space, calling every day and giving gifts once a week. I really like the program and think it probably works for some people esp. for situations where both partners want to work on things.
My spouse's wall is still so thick my efforts are just crashing into it and bouncing to the ground. Yesterday when picking up our daughter, I gave a cool gift and she just snorted and shook her head.
Later she sent an email saying my gifts were not being well received 'right now' and she feels bad but its apparent we both want different things. She is happy being on her own. She is going to talk to someone about 'what it looks like to make it more permanent. And sorry about the email its just hard to talk to you in person since communication was always a problem.
Then she tells my best friend to check in on me because she is worried about my reaction. My friend asks if she wants a divorce but she says she wants to look at mediation...
I am struggling with should I let go of the other model and try to back off and do a 180?
I haven't responded to her email, she texted about mid day about my game yesterday and something to do with daycare for our daughter. I didn't respond, she called in the evening but I was in IC. She didn't leave a message.
Any advice on if I should respond before I have my coaching session on Wednesday?
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
She's let you know that what you're doing isn't working. If she wants time away from you, talking to her everyday and giving her gifts is probably having the opposite of the intended effect.
By the way, I hate to say this but "mediation" is part of the divorce (or legal separation) process.
Chase,
First off I am really sorry you are here. Also, I am glad you now realize that pursuing her and buying her gifts is having the opposite effect and is only turning her off. That BS only works in the movies.
Judging by your brief description it sounds like your wife believes you have some "mommy issues" and she may feel you you are in a fragile emotional state right now. Again, not attractive.
IMO the best thing you can do right now is be the best dad you can be (attractive) join a gym (attractive) and get out and fill your free time with fun and exciting things to do.
Go NC with your wife unless it involves your daughter. Respond to your wife's texts but at your leisure and only when they require a response. Be mysterious!
If you take the focus off of W *completely* she will notice. That will give her space to breathe, and to think. That's the only way these things turn around -- the ONLY way.
I do have some control issues but I thought I was being helpful by being a decision maker and she is indecisive. I didn't realize that was even an issue. My stability and groundedness is one of things she was attracted to when we met because her and her family is the opposite. Now with the lack of connection and love it is something that she doesn't like about me.
I have struggled to be vulnerable, I like to keep the peace so I keep everything inside and also go to my mom for advice when she wanted to me to put her opinion and thoughts first.
In the last 5 months I have burnt myself to ashes and rebuilt through reading, hypnotherapy, coaching and working on myself. She can't see any of those things at all. But she also gives off mixed messages and anytime I feel like she is letting her guard down the next few days it goes back up stronger.
So for now I will back off and give her space.
She has a crazy work schedule and still wants to have 50/50 custody of our daughter. We have a plan that is 4 nights with me in our family home and 3 nights with her at her apartment. But she can't ever keep those days because of her work schedule. I am a teacher, so summers off, and the schedule she gave me for how she would like the summer to go is really hectic with 1 night with me 1 night with her,36 hours with me, 2 nights with her. So its so much extra contact with each other. And no stability for a two year old. Should I agree to this or push to stick with our original parent plan and if she can't have our daughter on her nights then sorry?
If you are free and can accommodate why wouldn't you want to spend more time with your daughter. If you are busy running a 5k or at the gym or out with friends " sorry W I have plans you are going to have to make other arrangements."
What fun and exciting things do you have planned for the Summer?
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
She has a crazy work schedule and still wants to have 50/50 custody of our daughter. We have a plan that is 4 nights with me in our family home and 3 nights with her at her apartment. But she can't ever keep those days because of her work schedule. I am a teacher, so summers off, and the schedule she gave me for how she would like the summer to go is really hectic with 1 night with me 1 night with her,36 hours with me, 2 nights with her. So its so much extra contact with each other. And no stability for a two year old. Should I agree to this or push to stick with our original parent plan and if she can't have our daughter on her nights then sorry?
Hello Chase20,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
It is going to sound like an echo around here regarding no need to respond to her emails/texts unless it is about your D. When it is about your D, don't reply right away unless it is an emergency.
The 4 nights in family home with you & 3 nights at apartment sounds reasonable. The other suggestion does sound chaotic, especially for a 2 year old.
I'm glad you have a DB Telephone Coaching session scheduled for Wednesday. In the meantime, read DR and focus on being the best Chase20 and parent that only a fool would leave.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
I may be off base here, but you may want to read .... Google it, there's a free PDF out there. It's a really hard read if you have to face some things about yourself, but it's worth it.
The custody situation you're talking about seems absolutely insane. There's no stability or structure for your child in there, and no way for YOU to find any stability in there, either (exactly how are you supposed to GAL if you're at her beck and call like this, where she gets to dictate your downtime?)
Ask yourself what's best for your two year old. That's your #1 responsibility, here. It's your W's responsibility to figure out how to make time for your child. I'd personally suggest you try to accommodate her as much as is reasonable--your child NEEDS two parents, after all--but NOT to the point that it becomes detrimental to you or your daughter.
If I made her stick to the parenting plan our time would be more like me 70% her 30%. I want to have pure intentions so I struggle with am I being manipulative and trying to make her feel the loss of our family a little bit more.
The ... program advocated not making any big plans away from W so I could take every opportunity to see her.
My parents have a few vacation properties close by so I will take D to those. I haven't really thought about other trips. My cousin had a baby and they live in San Jose so maybe I will take D on a trip there.
W is taking D to NYC for a family vacation over 4th of July. It makes me sad because I was there last summer w/0 W but with her family (she had other plans with work/friends). We were all talking about how much fun it would be to have it as a family tradition to do 4th of July out there. She wants to take her for 6 nights although we originally agreed to 5.
This is my biological child her adopted child.
Chase,
Just a hunch here but are there guys that are part of the "work/friends"?
I feel your pain with the child care. My wife moved out almost a month ago, and so far our son has spent two nights with her, and that was after a two weeks where I took him to visit her family. I'm currently visiting my family with him and she's alone back home (still not staying at home). It's frustrating because I honestly feel it's better for our son to stay at home with me, first for stability, second because the place my wife is staying isn't a great environment. But I also feel bad because he doesn't get to see his mom as much as he should be, and it's hard for me to GAL if I have to keep him every night and most days.
I don't have any advice, just letting you know someone else is going through the same thing.
Also, this is her adopted child? It's your biological daughter? Does she not see her biological mother?
What do people recommend regarding going along with mediation, how helpful should I be? Should I attempt to stall the process? My W is notoriously disorganized and slow to get anything going so I know even setting up a mediation will take awhile.
She still has most of her stuff at the house, she will come and take one thing even though it is sitting next to something that is also hers.
Just started reading DR and have a coaching session scheduled for Wednesday. My WAS left 5 months ago.
Hello Chase,
It will help the folks here if you could fill in some blanks on your backstory, maybe add a "signature" at the bottom of your post with pertinent info. In particular I'm curious how long you've been married. The longer you've been married, the longer it will take to turn things around. 5 months probably seems like an eternity to you, but DB'ing is a long process, it usually takes years to turn a WAS around. It can be done but it takes a lot of difficult work.
She had told me before she was unhappy but I didn't think we really had any problems because we liked hanging out, had a lot in common and didn't really fight.
Time for a reality check, you've made the most common marriage-killing mistake of all. You didn't listen to her. She warned you over and over and you ignored it. Pretended things were OK. Now here you are. You're in good company, a lot of us were the same. BD comes as a shock to us, but usually the WAS is surprised we're shocked because they've been trying to get through to us for so long and they think we didn't care.
By the time I realized we had a connection problem about 1.5 years ago she had built up a wall and nothing I did was helping. We tried MC and then she told me I needed to do my own counseling since my communication, not putting her first and mom issues were the main problem.
Yeah you are exactly right about the wall. That's what the WAS does to protect themselves. They try to get through to us, we ignore them, they build a wall and separate themselves, then comes BD. Also do you realize you're STILL not listening to her? YOU want MC, not HER. So why are you making her go? Don't do anything else until you've read DB cover to cover. You're making a lot of mistakes right now and DB will set you on the right path. Leave your W alone. Give her TIME and SPACE. We're not talking days or weeks, but months, and probably years.
I have done about 3 months of another program where they advocate no space, calling every day and giving gifts once a week. I really like the program and think it probably works for some people esp. for situations where both partners want to work on things.
You're dealing with a WAS. Those are absolutely the WRONG things to do with a WAS. They are the OPPOSITE of what you should do. No more gifts or calling, period. Those things are pressure and pressure is the worst thing for a WAS. You are pushing her farther and farther away.
My spouse's wall is still so thick my efforts are just crashing into it and bouncing to the ground.
Exactly, so WHY DO YOU KEEP DOING WHAT DOESN'T WORK????? Are you familiar with the picnic analogy? She's in her castle. The more you throw yourself against the walls the thicker she wants to make the walls. So go have a picnic. Get yourself a nice basket, spread a blanket out sit in the sunshine enjoy YOUR life without a care in the world. She'll look out her window and wonder what happened. What are you doing? Why are you ENJOYING yourself? What the heck? She'll keep looking out the window. Eventually she'll crack open the door. Then come outside. Then run back in. Then back out again, etc. etc. Maybe some day she joins you on that blanket.
What does that mean? GET A LIFE! You need a life WITHOUT her. Work out. Paint. Tinker with a car or motorcycle. Run. Bike. Whatever it is, go do it and QUIT pressuring her. When she sees you enjoying your own life, then maybe she'll want to be a part of it again. But not until you have well and truly given her time and space and carved out a life for yourself.
Later she sent an email saying my gifts were not being well received 'right now' and she feels bad but its apparent we both want different things. She is happy being on her own. She is going to talk to someone about 'what it looks like to make it more permanent. And sorry about the email its just hard to talk to you in person since communication was always a problem.
Listen to her. Stop with the gifts. REMOVE ALL PRESSURE from her. Then and only then, maybe she'll give the D talk a rest.
I am struggling with should I let go of the other model and try to back off and do a 180?
Has the other model worked? No it has not. There's your answer. Brother, take it from me and the other old timers here, there is no quick fix. Us guys, we want the quick fix. Tell me steps A, B and C to get my marriage back. Which "model" do I need to use, and how long will it take. You're dealing with your W's emotions, you cannot fix them. Only she can. And it's your job to give her time and space while she works on herself. And YOU need to work on YOU. Become the best you that you can be. Strong, independent, that guy she was attracted to in the first place. She doesn't want a weak, needy, desperate you. That is not at all attractive.
I haven't responded to her email, she texted about mid day about my game yesterday and something to do with daycare for our daughter. I didn't respond, she called in the evening but I was in IC. She didn't leave a message.
Any advice on if I should respond before I have my coaching session on Wednesday?
Don't ignore her. The rule of thumb is to not contact her, but if she contacts you then it's OK to respond. Stick to business though. No relationship talk AT ALL. NO PRESSURE. By all means discuss parenting issues and such, that needs to happen regardless of DBing.
Read the book cover to cover, it only takes a few hours. Come back and ask questions. Then read it again. And again. Take a deep breath, you're running a marathon, not a sprint. You can do this!
What do people recommend regarding going along with mediation, how helpful should I be? Should I attempt to stall the process? My W is notoriously disorganized and slow to get anything going so I know even setting up a mediation will take awhile.
She still has most of her stuff at the house, she will come and take one thing even though it is sitting next to something that is also hers.
Good! Let her keep procrastinating! You need to do this: ___________ (nothing). Like I just said, remove all pressure from her and more than likely she will quit pushing for D. My ex started the D process and then I started DB'ing and removed all pressure from her, and it worked. She stopped working on the D. Eventually I ended up pushing the D through, but that's another story. The point is if you can effectively remove pressure from the WAS they will no longer feel the need to push the D through.
So much good stuff in here- thank you for sharing. I will keep in mind the picnic analogy. Made me smile.
We have been together 7 years married almost 4 (6/27). We met when she was 23 and I am 8 years older. She moved in right away and has never had an independent living situation. It was my house, my stuff early in the relationship she expressed that she never felt like it was hers but after we got married she stopped talking about that so I figured it wasn't an issue.
The reason I kept doing the pursue thing was because the other program said that is what I needed to do even if she was rejecting me. Just to expect that and keep doing it. Even though I sort of knew better because I know my W and she doesn't respond to that type of thing well anyway. Their coaches were telling me to stick with it and I was doing the right thing and she would see eventually.
My parents marriage was a rocky situation growing up and my dad just did things to show he loved us so of course even though I said I wouldn't do that, as I look back the last 2 years I see that is exactly what I was doing. Make sure the house is clean, kid is taken care of, bend over backwards for her hectic work schedule, don't complain when she is gone 12 days out of the month, keep the yard clean... if I didn't those things she would see that I loved her.
I don't think that is the case. Right up until she BD we did everything together or she was working. She is in sales and constantly going to different cities.
The last 5 months when I see her she isn't secretive with her phone or acting much different. She was always available to watch our D (during my spring coaching). And either she is on a work trip or having our D. But who knows...
Chase,
You didn't answer the question. Are there guys in the group friends? Does she travel alone on these trips?
No - really the only people we spent much time with was her family she has 2 brothers with gfs and my bf who is a guy but he is like a brother.
She does travel alone to meet with reps. Never with anyone from the company. Its the alcohol business so I am sure there is lots of poor behavior/decisions.
Haven't responded to the email with the statement about mediation. Waiting to talk to DB coach tomorrow to get advice. W called and texted yesterday but I hadn't responded yet. W called again today 2x. I did finally answer and she had a 'crazy' story to tell me and I kept it short and got off the phone quickly because I was 'busy'.
She mentioned nothing about the email.
So the friends she made plans with instead of going on a family trip to NYC are all girls correct?
Yes, it was her best friends bachelorette weekend. Her bf from college met her cousin at our wedding and they ended up getting married. She really wanted to come with us, we actually flew to NYC together and I went with her mom and she got on another flight to SC. We talked on the phone multiple times everyday, texted the whole time she was gone.
Then we met back in NYC and went to st. maarten for a few days without D. Had fun together but still couldn't fully figure out the emotional connection piece that has been missing.
Good session with DB coach. I feel so much better emotionally now that i don't have feel like i have to do the pursue thing. It was really taking a toll on me. Work has been better, time with my D has been better.
I am happy I did the other program, I don't want to beat myself up over having gone in that direction. It made me vulnerable in a way I have never been and had to face constant rejection so no matter what it will ultimately make me a better person and better in what ever relationship I am in, in the future.
For those of you who are DBing do you keep on your wedding ring? I live in the marital house with lots of wedding photos up, should I keep them up? W comes to the house at least once a week to pick up our D so she would notice if I took anything down.
For me- they are not a sad reminder of anything. If anything they are beautiful photos and give me a good reminder of what I am fighting for.
Do what feels right to you. Don't do anything just to try to get a reaction out of her.
Sunday was the W email saying she wanted to make separation more permanent. I backed off and have gone little contact. W is now calling me everyday and texting. We have not discussed the email. This morning I dropped off D to her before I went to work. I went to coffee place across the street from her apt. She met me over there and pulled up a chair and sat down to tell me her stories about work/life normal stuff we like to talk about. She walked with me in the rain to my car and stood there for awhile before I said I had to go.
Why is this so confusing!?
What is confusing?
You backed off and now she is pursing you. The minute you start pursing her she will back off again.
Have you read about the Pursuit and Distance dynamic?
What are your future goals?
Just read P & D - This is going to be hard for me since any little bone I get I jump all over. I want to engage with the story and give advice and try to get the connection I am looking for.
Future Goals:
Go on a solo trip this summer when W and D are on vacation (never done this before)
Get some nicer clothes that fit - lost about 20 lbs through this order - although it makes me look good
Go to a class to learn about transcendental meditation
Connect with friends I haven't talked to in awhile
Acupuncture once a week
Read everyday for fun and growth
Good job man keep it up. Just don't throw it in her face the more it works. Be a mixture between very happy and neutral about your changes around her. My wife came around when she seen me GAL and was truly interested. Asking me where I been, any women there, I look great, etc. The more it worked, the more aggressive I got and it backfired.
Great news though, keep it up!
Chase,
****I want to engage with the story and give advice and try to get the connection I am looking for. *****
I am not sure I follow this sentence.
Those are great goals but is there any way you can get out more and be mysterious? Also, what about joining a gym?
I mean giving advice to what she is dealing with. They are part of her work life and I know all the players involved.
As for the gym- one of my issues in the M was that my exercise always came first so that has never been an issue. I workout everyday. Maybe I should find another hobby!
******I mean giving advice to what she is dealing with. They are part of her work life and I know all the players involved.*****
Sorry man but I am not following.
I always have my D on Fri/Sat nights and otherwise it is work nights so I don't go out much.
There is a going away party for a friend on Saturday night and W is supposed to be picking up our D at 7. I could get all dressed up and ready to go out before she comes over.
It still feels so weird going places with out her. Not many people know our situation so when they ask where she is I have to make something up.
How would DBers handle this situation.
My W if ALWAYS late, running behind, not planning time well. I am the opposite.
She constantly shows up late to pick up D or asks me to meet somewhere else or bring D somewhere so she isn't as late to her next activity.
I have always accommodated her and I usually can with out it causing a problem for my life. Should I keep doing this?
I type this as she is supposed to drop our D off to me at work and just texted saying she is running late and can I meet her...
chase
I noticed your post about someone being late, but I don't know your whole thread.
However I read the other day that being late can be a sign of ADD in adults.
Just a thought
Committing to not pursuing has its benefits and challenges.
Benefits: I feel much more in control of my emotions. I am not putting myself out there to be accepted or rejected and I can totally focus on my personal growth and D.
Challenges: I am afraid that W will detach more and forget about me.
So who did she leave you to pursue? I ask because that is the case. There is an OM in the picture. She's following that script to a tee. The gifts being "not well received" means, among other things, by her OM. You don't have a prayer of working on an M with more than two people in it. Look into it.
Sadly, I agree with TxHubby.
When you say look into it what does that mean?
I guess I don't know what type of signs to look for if she is having an A. But other than some new clothes she kind of looks shabby, put on weight, doesn't have a pep in her step or a glow about her that would indicate to me she is 'in love'.
She is always available to watch our D if I need her to. D doesn't talk about any new names. Her facebook is still full of pictures of me and our D and of us together.
She lingers around when we are together there is never a hustle to be away from me or like I have to get on to my next activity. She isn't secretive with her phone and it is never blowing up.
Her schedule is traveling for work, coaching and having nights with our D so I don't even know when she would be with OM.
Maybe this is all typical behavior for someone in an A or wanting a divorce. Or maybe she is just crazy.
It's just worth looking into. Checking cell records, whatever. Little things you might normally overlook. She's following a pretty predictable pattern is why I bring it up. I hope I'm wrong but in these cases very rarely am. The reason it's good to know one way or the other is because there are strategies to saving marriages that have to be tweaked depending on your situation. If there are actively more than 2 people in your marriage then any type of counseling or anything at all is a waste of time/money. You can only fix a marriage that has 2 people in it. If there is an OM then just 180, detach, GAL, move on. Make nothing whatsoever easy on her. She'd have to see what really being alone means. Maybe she'll love it. Sometimes they do. You have to be willing to lose the whole thing in order to save it. Good luck.
Chase,
I'll look into your whole thread this weekend. Just wanted to let you know that
1) Not all women who want to leave, are having actual physical affairs,
2) for those having affairs, AND USUALLY for those NOT having affairs, there have usually been complaints or needs that have gone unnoticed by their h's or unheeded,
or just b/c the h's are human -like all of us - were the h's became careless with their marriage;
3) depression and illness (and I hate saying this but yes, menopause) and unresolved crap from the past may all need addressing, regardless of any OM or zero OM.
4) for those who are having physical affairs, it's not always fatal despite what you may hear/read or how someone else feels.
Saying "once a cheater, always a cheater " is like saying no alcoholics ever quit drinking. People can and do change.
Are you really the same man you were 15 years ago? Are you going to remain as you are today, in 20?
She's done a lot of thorough research (and no, she's not in favor of it!)
But it's remarkably insightful and objective.
Hang in there.
Catching up with your thread. Sorry if you have answered and I miss it
Just started reading DR and have a coaching session scheduled for Wednesday. My WAS left 5 months ago. She had told me before she was unhappy but I didn't think we really had any problems because we liked hanging out, had a lot in common and didn't really fight.
By the time I realized we had a connection problem about 1.5 years ago she had built up a wall and nothing I did was helping. We tried MC and then she told me I needed to do my own counseling since my communication, not putting her first and mom issues were the main problem.
Okay so you did have warning signs. (IMO, That's good news, mostly.)
What did YOU think was the "Connection" problem? Other than MC, what did You try to do to help?
Also what would your w say You needed IC for?
What "Mom issue" is she referring to?
I have done about 3 months of another program where they advocate no space, calling every day and giving gifts once a week. I really like the program and think it probably works for some people esp. for situations where both partners want to work on things.
My spouse's wall is still so thick my efforts are just crashing into it and bouncing to the ground. Yesterday when picking up our daughter, I gave a cool gift and she just snorted and shook her head.
what did you like about it? Do you agree that it's not working? Did it make you feel that at least you were doing something?
My own experience is that it's best to use one approach at one time rather than mixing conflicting ones...just b/c it's sort of doing a disservice to both approaches
but I understand the feeling of wanting to DO something.
Later she sent an email saying my gifts were not being well received 'right now' and she feels bad but its apparent we both want different things. She is happy being on her own. She is going to talk to someone about 'what it looks like to make it more permanent. And sorry about the email its just hard to talk to you in person since communication was always a problem.
Do you tend to get emotional when you two approach hard topics? How does it tend to flow?
Then she tells my best friend to check in on me because she is worried about my reaction. My friend asks if she wants a divorce but she says she wants to look at mediation...
I am struggling with should I let go of the other model and try to back off and do a 180?
TO me, of course you should stop a model that is clearly not working. Are there pieces to this that are missing? Some mixed signals we can't see?
I haven't responded to her email, she texted about mid day about my game yesterday and something to do with daycare for our daughter. I didn't respond, she called in the evening but I was in IC. She didn't leave a message.
Any advice on if I should respond before I have my coaching session on Wednesday?
Wait to talk to your DB coach and I defer to their advice.
But please make a choice - either use X approach or Y approach.
Often these approaches conflict and undermine the other.
Plus, the issues your w raised 18 months ago need addressing.
( Are her concerns which she has had awhile, being addressed - or is this all about your w and whether she's having an affair?)
Are you in IC? What's up with the mom issue and what bothered your w about it?
I don't know any WASs who return to the marriage they left,
UNLESS they believe the marriage can be different/better than before.
so To put it simply,
how would marriage to you today, be different or better than before?
Sounds really unfair but the reality is that it's up to the LBSer to show that the m can improve. And this is good news! You are not powerless!
I know you are in pain and it stinks.
You may ask , but Why should You work to prove the m can be better when she left?
Because your w is not here working to save the marriage, you are.
Keep on keeping on and keep on posting.
ps
anytime a poster has a DB coach, imo, it's crucial you give the DB coach all the information (and you don't take polls to see if others agree with the Coach's advice.)
The coaches are the experts in THIS approach and in ways to implement it.
I got valuable insights from my DB coach (a Godsend to me) and it was very specific to my situation, without a one size fits all approach.
In hindsight, I wish I had continued the coaching after the recon b/c our mistake was in not piecing well at all as if recon was the "Victory" in itself.
(**MIL got cancer right after we reconciled, so we tabled the piecing part -and then never really got to the underlying issues that would allow h to leave our family for his own ends...)
However, it's due to the DB coaching and my GAL/Detachment (which the DB coach helped with anyhow)
that a recon happened at all.
Still, the most important part of all of this approach was about how we have to own our own choices -GAL and bring something to the marital table other than our demands for needs
and not make someone else responsible for our happiness -
nor can we keep doing what does Not work in our marriage,
even when we think we are "right". If it's not working, I doubt it can be right but
that's when you ask if you want to be right or happy.
Thanks for all the responses. I will answer soon when I have more time. I have my D most of the weekend.
Update - since backing off the pursuit - W has initiated phone calls everyday; yesterday I figured ok, she is finally getting what she wants for me to back off and give her space. We have communicated everyday in some way over the 5 month separation and I was pretty sure yesterday was going to be the first with no contact. She called at 7:45 on Friday night - to talk about our plan for Saturday night, she is picking up our D for the night.
The schedule was already set for her to pick up at 7. She wanted to know our plans for today (I usually invite her to come along on our Sat. plans) I was vague and didn't invite her.
We planned for her to come over at 7 to pick up D (shocking, no change to our original plan). We talked just for a few minutes I kept it brief but made her laugh and then I cut off the conversation.
mom issue: She thinks I go to my mom for everything, we have a close relationship. I have heard that feedback and was working on it but probably not as fast as she would have liked.
My dad was verbally/emotionally abusive mom, brother and I growing up so I always felt protective of them. My mom's mom died when she was young and her dad abandoned the family after that so she grew up w/o parents. She has always been very protective and coddled my brother and I growing up. I didn't do a good job of breaking away from her when I got married.
Connection problems: I am non confrontational and avoided speaking about things that happened in our marriage that needed a solution. My default was to give the silent treatment if I was unhappy with something W did. That resentment built up in me and caused her to feel like she was never good enough. She is a fixer and she was always trying to either fix me or fix herself so she would meet my needs. She said she lost herself along the way and didn't like the person she became. So that is why she needed to separate to get time away.
We both work way to much and are raising a toddler. She travels for work so were away from each other a lot. I was resentful that she was always leaving us even though I tried to put on a happy face. I know she likes the work travel so I wanted to support her. I felt like I had all the home duties.
What I/we tried: MC, me going to IC, going on vacation together in Aug '16, me journaling and trying to share some feelings and being vulnerable (this worked best I would get the wall down just a little bit, but we didn't do this on a consistent basis, or when she would shut down I would give up)
yesterday was the first day of no contact on either side for the entire 5 months. It is heartbreaking to let go. I truly have so much love in my heart for my W and I know we are meant to be together. I guess I have to trust this process and have hope that she will come around.
She is out of town for work, I know this is the time when she communicates the least with me but its still so hard.
When you finally back off and give your spouse space what are they thinking? Any WAS on here that can answer?
My fear is that is will push her towards D/mediation faster.
Even though I know that my pursuit the last few months probably pushed her to that thought faster. Its so hard to let go and detach.
Just Journaling
Two days NC with W. Last night I was thinking she might want to facetime with our daughter since she hadn't seen her in a few days but she didn't reach out. I don't know how much to interfere with her relationship with D. D tells me she is sad because she wants to see mommy, I just tell her mommy loves her. Should I be telling my W that she should be calling?
I did finally text last night at 7 because according to the calendar W created she is supposed to pick up D from daycare today. I switched our daycare dates to make this work. W texted back 40min later saying 'I have coaching tomorrow night I thought you would pick her up and I would get her from you at 7:30.' So the calendar she created says she is picking up D - was she planning on telling me this at some point. This is less than 24 hrs before it is happening.
I want my D so I said I would pick her up- since daycare is 5 min from my work. I did tell her she needs to give me more notice is she is going to change the calendar. So she says oh sorry; my dad can watch her if its a big deal.
The big deal is that I told my D mommy was picking her up from day care and she was excited. Then I had to tell her that isn't the plan now. This is what kills me about broken families where one parent makes plans and then breaks or changes them. It is such a let down to the kids.
I have never been good at communicating my feelings/emotions. In the 5 month separation I have still not talked much about them because I was avoiding relationship talk/anything to serious. I am trying to figure out if I should 180 that but that is in conflict with going NC.
Chase,
Stick to no contact unless it involves your daughter and keep your feelings to yourself for now. 5 months is very early in the process.
What are your GAL plans for this weekend?
yesterday was the first day of no contact on either side for the entire 5 months. It is heartbreaking to let go.
NC is not "letting go", it's simply giving her the time and space she wants.
When you finally back off and give your spouse space what are they thinking?
Right now anything you do is going to look like a trick to her, that you're just trying to trick her into coming back. And really that probably is what you're doing for now. I can almost sense in your question that what you're really asking "I didn't talk to her for a whole day, so why hasn't she seen the light and come back yet? Why isn't it working?" Patience is critical, you're in a marathon, not a sprint. She will not believe any changes you make in yourself at first. It's consistency + TIME that will convince her you've really changed.
My fear is that is will push her towards D/mediation faster.
Even though I know that my pursuit the last few months probably pushed her to that thought faster. Its so hard to let go and detach.
Read through DB again. Michele stresses that DB'ing is counter-intuitive. Your heart is telling you to pursue, lavish her with love, attention and gifts. Send her articles about how bad divorce is, talk to her friends and family and tell them to help her see the light, maybe even get the kids to ask her why she's doing this. THAT doesn't work. THAT pushes her farther away. THAT makes her want the D more than ever. She doesn't want you for now, she doesn't want to talk to you, see you, text with you, etc. If you give her time and space you remove the pressure from her. You give her what she wants. When the pressure is removed, they nearly always put the D on hold.
Last night I was thinking she might want to facetime with our daughter since she hadn't seen her in a few days but she didn't reach out. I don't know how much to interfere with her relationship with D. D tells me she is sad because she wants to see mommy, I just tell her mommy loves her. Should I be telling my W that she should be calling?
Sounds like you're looking for excuses to reach out to W. If your W wants to talk to D then she will. She doesn't need you to tell her.
The big deal is that I told my D mommy was picking her up from day care and she was excited. Then I had to tell her that isn't the plan now. This is what kills me about broken families where one parent makes plans and then breaks or changes them. It is such a let down to the kids.
This really doesn't sound like a big deal to me. You're correct that this is typical fallout in a S or D, stuff like this will happen a lot. Just roll with it.
I have never been good at communicating my feelings/emotions. In the 5 month separation I have still not talked much about them because I was avoiding relationship talk/anything to serious. I am trying to figure out if I should 180 that but that is in conflict with going NC.
Are you asking if you should share your feelings with W? Absolutely not! That is something you do in a healthy M, but you're well beyond that point. If SHE wants to share her feelings with YOU then by all means, listen and empathize. But she doesn't want to hear what you're feeling because that's pressure.
I think my W is a terrible parent, but she at least TALKS to our D twice a day.
Your W is not doing what's best for your D. That's obvious. Everything in that schedule you mentioned is all about her convenience. Your D needs STRUCTURE and this is the opposite.
When I was a kid, my parents had me on a schedule that I called "ping pong" which involved a lot of back and forth. Yours is even worse. At some point you probably need to sit down with your W and say "this ISN'T going to work" and figure something out that will. For all three of you.
For sure there is a part of me that wants W to call D so I can see what W is doing
Stander- you comment made me laugh about one day NC and why hasn't she seen the light. That is totally how I feel. I feel like I have made so many positive changes about myself, my emotions are in check. I react from a place of love and compassion for others rather than seeing what I can get out of the situation for myself. I feel a sense of softness in my core being where I just use to be tough and unfeeling. I wanted to push all emotions away.
I have learned in this divorce/separation situation you really can't do that, everything is raw and painful. But it has really opened me up to so many more emotions and feelings and I allow them to sit with me and try to enjoy them. I feel like W would be crazy to leave the me I have become but she never gets to see that version of me.
She is coming tonight to pick up D for the evening and then I pick her up again tomorrow after work. If she comes in tonight and sits down (like she usually does) what is the best strategy for making conversation? Usually we talk about our D and funny things she is doing and we both share stuff that is going on in our day to day lives.
I agree all the back and forth is eventually going to have to stop. I have been pretty flexible right now in an attempt to be accommodating/helpful/loving.
I know she needs time to go on her journey. Its just hard to realize that doesn't include me. I have been on my own journey these 5 months and have made some significant changes. But I want to share those changes with the person I made a lifelong commitment with! That part makes me sad.
I can see her journey is going to take awhile. Mine was very accelerated seeing as I am in so much pain.
My GAL plans this weekend: Saturday: I have my D so Brother coming over to hang out, and spending time with Dad for fathers day; Then we are all taking D to family graduation party.
Sunday I play in a softball league so we have our last games and then there is an end of the season party at a sponsor bar so most of my team will go and hang out.
I feel like I have made so many positive changes about myself, my emotions are in check. I react from a place of love and compassion for others rather than seeing what I can get out of the situation for myself. I feel a sense of softness in my core being where I just use to be tough and unfeeling. I wanted to push all emotions away.
That is FANTASTIC, I mean that shows real progress and you should be proud of yourself! But as 25 is fond of pointing out (paraphrasing from memory)- consistent behavior + time = change she can believe in. You're just missing the time component. I know 5 months seems like an eternity, but if you eventually work things out then in 20+ years it'll just seem like a small bump in the road. Your W still needs more time- to see your changes, to believe they are real, to sort out her inner demons.
If she comes in tonight and sits down (like she usually does) what is the best strategy for making conversation? Usually we talk about our D and funny things she is doing and we both share stuff that is going on in our day to day lives.
No harm in that type of small talk. But don't ever initiate any R discussions yourself. If she initiates then it's fine to listen and validate, nothing more.
I know she needs time to go on her journey. Its just hard to realize that doesn't include me.
It doesn't include you for NOW. Next week, next month, next year who knows. I always used to tell people here, your W changed her mind about wanting you, what makes you think she can't change it back again? It happens all the time. No matter how desperate things may seem, there is NO reason to give up HOPE. As long as you have hope, anything is possible.
After the debacle of switching up the daycare pick up, W was supposed to pick up D at 7:30. She of course was late, didn't show up until 8:10. She didn't let me know she was going to be late until 7:50- with a quick 'traffic is horrible - sorry' text.
I responded 'no worries'
I have been on NC other than D for almost 2 weeks. The first week was right after she finally said she wanted to make our separation more permanent. Prior to that I was doing another program that was all about pursuing, one of the things they recommended was calling every day with some trivial, non relationship type of thing that would be of interest to them.
The first week of NC she was calling or texting every day. Then this week she went NC. Prior to this week she would have called or texted early to let me know she was going to be late (its one of her struggles-being on time). Today I feel like because I am going NC and she feels it, she is going NC.
Tonight she was at coaching at her open gym. Which has been a huge sore spot in our M the last few years. She travels so much, then coaches in her free hours esp. during the summer. Since I am a teacher that is when I have most of my free time so I have been resentful that she is choosing her coaching over being home with her family. Again I feel intentional NC because she has felt controlled by me wanting her to be home with her family instead of coaching in the summer. The summer coaching can be handled by the assistants, it isn't totally necessary for her to be there but I know she wants to be there.
Is it part of the pursuit and distance game for the WAS to intentionally distance. Even if it is related to picking up/caring for our D?
Showing up late, not communicating the change in plans for the custody schedule... doesn't she realize this doesn't make things look good for her ability to parent a child and if she takes me to a mediation session that she is giving me ammunition against her. She is not seeing anything in the big picture. Never a strength of hers anyway.
D always is sad to leave me and says she doesn't want to go with mommy I know that hurts her feelings.
Chase,
It just sounds like she is a chronically late unorganized person.
It won't effect your mediation. She has to be proven an unfit mother for it to effect custody. ie alcoholic/drug addict
Big plans this weekend?
Chronically late and disorganized and takes on to much is her personality to a T.
D and I have fun plans for Saturday to hangout with family, brother and dad.
Sunday is softball teams last games and end of the season party at a sponsor bar.
Makes it hard for me to see her actually following through with setting up any kind of mediation appointment. So I guess I still have more time.
I am looking forward to my DB coaching session on Wednesday to get more clear on my goals/actions moving forward.
Hang in there and continue NC.
If it makes you feel better it took my wife 2.5 years to file for divorce.
And you worked on DB the whole time? That seems like eternity. I am on such an emotional rollercoaster I don't know how I could last that long.
My job is so emotionally draining teaching and coaching that I have very little left for myself. Although as I look back at the last 5 months I am amazed that I have been able to make it this far. I know I haven't been the best at my job but considering what I have been going through I don't hold it against myself. Its been good enough.
And you worked on DB the whole time? That seems like eternity.
DB'ing is all about making permanent changes to yourself. A lot of it, like listening and validating, I practice not just with my current GF but with my ex, my kids, my friends and coworkers, etc. That's what we keep saying around here is DB'ing isn't tricks and strategies, it's a re-training of yourself. It's changing what we did wrong and doing things better, and doing that for life.
Chase,
Once you lose the fear and realize that you will be fine no matter what the outcome is things will completely change for you.
They key is to try to get a little better every day. Read relationship books, take cooking lessons etc.
My wife filed in April, maybe she changes her mind in the future maybe she doesn't either way I know I am going to be ok. If she does, then she has to earn me back. I couldn't say that 6 months ago but I can now.
If you have time ready "accrucy"'s threads. He has done extensive research on relationships and IMO all his posts are gold.
Need advice-
Picked up D from W today- she sat down and talked and had a lot of stories to tell me.
Tonight she sent a message that said "i miss just being your friend, I hope we can get there..."
What is my response? I did the NC for 2 weeks after her email about making our separation more permanent. Is this a result of backing off the pursuit?
and then the follow up text
...sorry i shouldn't have said that. I apologize. I still have emotions, lots of them. Just trying to balance this tough situation.
During this separation she has not once sent me a text, email saying anything vulnerable. No drunk accidental text with emotions or thoughts. She has been so calculated its been impressive.
Chase, don't respond to that text, she's temp checking. Her decisions are going to be harder for her if she doesn't know how you will react to her choices, but that's ok, cause honestly you don't know how your going to react.
Be mysterious.
I feel like the distance she is feeling from me is making all the emotions come up that she has tried to bottle up.
It is hard to not rush to her side and tell her everything is going to be ok.
I know she has to sit in this space with her emotions and I can't rescue her. I did that alot during our R. Always trying to make her feel validated and better about her struggles.
It has been a rough day today. Had activities going all day but it was hard to keep my mind off the situation. Had lots of mini break downs where some tears flowed. I am trying to just let myself have the emotions, let them come and then keep my head up.
W of course didn't reach out at all today except to schedule the time to pick up D in the morning.
I just feel this huge wave of emotions. I am frustrated she could send me a message saying she missed our friendship. She has been so cold and unkind to me most of this separation how does that even begin a friendship.
That small vulnerable moment where she let down and said she still having lots of emotions makes me want to go and be close to her and fix this.
Tomorrow I get to see her in the morning, and I have to muster all my courage and strength to be happy and fun and loving. It seems so awkward right now. She is playing the pursuit and distance game and I have to get off the carousel. I don't understand how this ever gets turned around. Sad
how do you look up posts from other users? when i do the search options it only shows references to accuracy's post but not by them?
Find a post that accuray wrote, click on his name and then click posts.. It will bring up a list of posts from day 1.
The mind wandering and the feeling like a zombie going through the motions of activities will lessen, keep doing activities, it gets better everyday until one day you find yourself actually having a good time.
Give her more space, don't break down and text or call, limit interactions and only validate if she starts R conversation. If you haven't, read up on being a lighthouse.
W came to pick up D this morning. I was worried it would be awkward because of the text messages from Friday night.
I was happy and playing with D when she showed up. She actually put on jeans instead of sweats not sure if that means anything but DB says look for anything as a sign or that things are different.
She still wears the necklace I gave her that has a lot of meaning between us.
She asked me some questions about what I was doing today and when our D was asking to go she told her to be patient because we were talking. Does she really think we can create a friendship when she knows how much it is killing me.
I know I need to let it go and not worry about what is going on in her head. Just work on myself and GAL. I have IC on Monday, acupuncture on Tues and DB coaching session on Wednesday hopefully will get more grounded.
Tonight she sent a message that said "i miss just being your friend, I hope we can get there..."
and then the follow up text
...sorry i shouldn't have said that. I apologize. I still have emotions, lots of them. Just trying to balance this tough situation.
Just listen and validate, even if it's by text. "It sounds like you are going through a lot, I'm sorry you're struggling." Here's the thing- she IS going through a lot. You can come on these forums and read pages and pages of WAS's talking about how miserable they are, how awful their sitch is, how horrible their WAS is for putting them through this. You know what is tragically absent from these forums? Any talk at ALL of how the LBS's spouse is ALSO suffering. LBS's are so consumed with their own grief that they seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that their spouse is going through just as much pain IF NOT MORE (because they've been suffering silently for months or even years). Please try to have some compassion for her, if you can do that then you're in a better position to validate her and that will help your sitch more than you can imagine.
Thanks for that reminder. I do try to remind myself that W was feeling all these same things for months/year before she BD and I am just experiencing all these things now. But many times my anger/hurt over the situation clouds the empathy I should have for her too.
2 weeks ago was her email about how happy she is being separated from me, so its a bit of an admission that that isn't totally true.
But many times my anger/hurt over the situation clouds the empathy I should have for her too.
Understandably so. It's hard to feel sorry for someone else when we feel like our insides have been ripped out and thrown all over the room! But we're here to remind each other of what we should be doing
2 weeks ago was her email about how happy she is being separated from me, so its a bit of an admission that that isn't totally true.
I remember reading Sandi's rules and especially the "believe nothing she says and only half of what she does" part and thinking "no, my W knows EXACTLY what she's doing, no confusion, no remorse!" She just seemed so absolutely sure of herself. I think I even posted as much here and had people telling me that I was wrong, that all WAS's are hurting inside even if they don't show it outside (which they try not to, because they want everyone to think they're confident in their decision). My W told me months later that BD ate at her, that she cried every single day in private because she was so confused about what she was doing. I NEVER would have guessed it. She seemed so sure! So yeah, it really is true that you can't believe anything they say and only half of what they do.
Chase20: I know exactly what you mean by forgetting to be emphatic. That truly IS the hardest part to realize they are both in turmoil. At least for me, I get a little comfort from W who wants to spend time with me. But I also have to keep reminding myself I have only felt this hurt for a little bit...she has felt this for years. At the end of the day we need to see it as a good sign that these reactions occur because that means the feelings are there. It's not easy. Not at all.
Its hard because the exterior is so tough and sure of herself. She never breaks down in front of me or give me much emotion.
Its been over 2 weeks since her email about mediation. She hasn't mentioned it. Do I bring it up at all or just leave it for now and be happy she isn't bringing it up again?
I find myself checking my email every morning in dread that she is going to send me another email saying she wants to make an appointment.
I did make a reference to it when I saw her on Sunday. I learned to make cake pops with my daughter. I am not a baker but my D loves them so I am learning. She wanted to give W one and I said ok but I said I wanted to make it clear that it wasn't a gift from me. She gave me a little smirk.
NC is scary, it makes me fear that she will forget about me. Its hard to see the other side of it that it actually is space for her to heal and rethink her position.
Its hard because the exterior is so tough and sure of herself. She never breaks down in front of me or give me much emotion.
Absolutely, that's part of the WAS approach. What she's feeling inside is a different story though.
Its been over 2 weeks since her email about mediation. She hasn't mentioned it. Do I bring it up at all or just leave it for now and be happy she isn't bringing it up again?
Don't bring it up. My W was all gung ho about filing for D. She has her L draw up the papers and that was the last I heard of it for 6 months. I'm not sure she ever would have filed, but I was going through a business partnership deal and I ended up pushing the D through so the business deal wouldn't get tied up in it. Often when you can remove all pressure from the WAS the D just goes on hold indefinitely.
NC is scary, it makes me fear that she will forget about me.
EVERY LBS thinks that. If I'm not constantly in my W's face then she'll forget about me! Or she'll think I don't care about her! If your W went a month without contacting you once, would YOU forget about HER? Of course not, so why do you think the reverse is true? She's been married to you just as long as you have to her, LOL! And the feelings are still there, she's just trying really hard to suppress them. The more you're in her face the easier that is for her. The less you're around the more she might start missing you.
Chase,
My situation is coming up on three years and I have only witnessed my wife cry once, our first day of marriage counseling.
Your wife is not going to cry now because she knows she is in control of the situation and can end this and have you back anytime she wants.
She has to miss and wonder about you, that is the only way you will get the outcome you are looking for in your situation.
If you do not want a divorce, do not bring it up.
Absolutely don't want to be divorced.
Quote from a book I am reading:
"In a holy relationship we don't seek to change anyone, but rather see how beautiful they already are"
That is my reminder that my W is a fragile, imperfect person and my love for her is based on those qualities just as much as her strengths. It also oddly allows me to step back and detach and let her have her space. I can't change her mind right now in this moment. It is a process and I have to trust the process.
Got my plane ticket for my solo trip when W & D are going on their own family trip. I am really looking forward to it. I have always been the planner, looked up all the places to go but this time I am just going to show up and see where the days take me.
Is it normal for the WAW to just let this whole thing sit in limbo. Seems like it doesn't allow them to move on either.
So I asked God for a sign today or some kind of communication/reaching out from my spouse. Just a little sign that I should keep keep doing this.
What did I get, our house got broken into and the alarm company called W phone. That is NOT what I meant by a sign. I will not ask for that again if this is what happens!
W texted me- at first her text to me was more of a joking like should I call the police since 99% of the time it is a false alarm. But then when I got home two windows broken etc... I texted letting her know the house was broken into. She said she was sorry and wished she could be in town to help. And then nothing more. I am frustrated that I have this expectation of her that she might show a little more concern for our safety or checking how our dog was.
I just don't understand how she can come off as so uncaring. I assuming this means I need more work on my detaching and not caring how she responds to our little crisis.
Got my plane ticket for my solo trip when W & D are going on their own family trip. I am really looking forward to it. I have always been the planner, looked up all the places to go but this time I am just going to show up and see where the days take me.
This^^ sounds very cool. Way to get out of your comfort zone. I'm a planner (I like the planning!!) but am considering a trip in which I don't plan much. Cool!!
Is it normal for the WAW to just let this whole thing sit in limbo. Seems like it doesn't allow them to move on either.
I think some WAW's rush to divorce like it's the only thing that will "Free them of their misery", but others let things linger in limbo. Especially when there are children.
It is not a "positive" sign that you linger in limbo
but it's not negative. That is for future Chase to worry about. Enjoy your trip.
Very sorry your house was broken into. Yikes! Thank God no one was home (other than your dog? How is the dog?)
So I asked God for a sign today or some kind of communication/reaching out from my spouse. Just a little sign that I should keep keep doing this.
What did I get, our house got broken into and the alarm company called W phone. That is NOT what I meant by a sign. I will not ask for that again if this is what happens!
W texted me- at first her text to me was more of a joking like should I call the police since 99% of the time it is a false alarm. But then when I got home two windows broken etc... I texted letting her know the house was broken into. She said she was sorry and wished she could be in town to help. And then nothing more.
Chase, is it possible you got ^^ a sign?
I am frustrated that I have this expectation of her
this^^ is the underlying problem. You have expectations and they show. You have to drop them Chase. And your timeline...It is not realistic for a w who really did communicate her unmet needs to you over some time.
I know Your fear is that she will be pushed away by distance, but there was already so much distance in the m, that I would not fear it. Plus the pursuit approach pushed her towards the divorce more...do NOT pressure her or she will flee.
I think showing her your newfound emotional strength and warm self confidence in a loving detached (un-needy) way is the approach to take. No r talk. No pushing for her to decide something.
that she might show a little more concern for our safety or checking how our dog was.
I just don't understand how she can come off as so uncaring. I assuming this means I need more work on my detaching and not caring how she responds to our little crisis.
Chase, please see this "2 x 4" in the way I'm trying to send it, meaning, with concern...
but your posts mostly reek of need on your end.
And that means you have "emotional needs/demands" of your w. That's not an attracting vibe to send out. It's also burdensome to her, especially if she did the heavy lifting in the m which you indicated in your early posts.
Be the best dad you can be, which is a turn on for any mother, and be a man only a fool would leave.
What were you like when your w fell in love with you? Get that guy back.
ps
can you put your ages, length of m and daughter's age in the signature block?
And details like 'Bomb Drop ("BD") and dates so we can get a quick reminder summary when we see your posts?
It's incredibly helpful to avoid confusing one poster with another.
Keep at this and enjoy your trip!
I took our kids on a trip to Italy years ago, and it was the best money I've ever saved and spent and borrowed.
So I asked God for a sign today or some kind of communication/reaching out from my spouse. Just a little sign that I should keep keep doing this.
I used to pray to God every night to help me be a better husband, father and person. To this day I wonder if BD was his response, because it certainly did transform me into those things. But if THAT was his answer then I NEVER would have sent him the request in the first place, LOL! God's answers are rarely the answers that WE want
I texted letting her know the house was broken into. She said she was sorry and wished she could be in town to help. And then nothing more. I am frustrated that I have this expectation of her that she might show a little more concern for our safety or checking how our dog was.
I just don't understand how she can come off as so uncaring.
It sounds pretty caring to me. "She said she was sorry and wished she could be in town to help." That's a lot more than most WAS's would say. Like 25 said, you're setting your expectations too high.
When we fell in love I was care-free, self confident (not in all the right ways, a little cocky but that was masking some of my own insecurities that I am working on now).
And yes part of me is still in the mode that some light is going to switch and she is going to realize she is making a mistake and come running back. Intellectually I know that is not going to happen but convincing my heart of that is another story.
We are both going to be a a concert for one of my childhood best friends on Saturday night. My DB coach and I came up with the most basic goal that if we exchange a hello then it will be successful so I see your point in making my goals really small. I wasn't doing that in this situation. My eyes are still to focused on the big goal of getting her to R.
(I added a signature line - lets see if it works on this post)
Going to a concert tonight where W will be (bringing 2 friends with me). She will most likely be there with some of her family (brothers and or dad). She doesn't really have many close friends who live here, which has always been so odd to me since she is the self-described 'social butterfly'. The more I look at her from a step back, the more I see that she struggles to create strong bonds with people.
The concert is for my best friend growing up, he lived with us for a few years before we got married so W and him also became good friends. DB coach and I came up with the goal that all we need to do is exchange a pleasant hello and it will be successful. That is all I need to do- just say hi and leave it at that. No more needy expectations, all day when a story pops into my head about what tonight might be like I refocus on the present.
My D and I are up in the mountains with my parents at their vacation home and we have had a great day.
I have had my wedding ring off all weekend so far. I am thinking about leaving it off for the concert tonight.
It is helping me detach a little more - like my W isn't 'mine' anymore.
Anniversary #4 tomorrow- suppose I will treat it like any other normal Tuesday.
I wasn't planning to see W, but she texted this AM saying she had to switch her work flight to early on Wednesday so she needs to drop off D tomorrow night.
Goals: Be happy, fun, use wife's first name at least once in conversation (that seems to always jolt her a little bit), get her to stay at least 15 minutes.
And yes part of me is still in the mode that some light is going to switch and she is going to realize she is making a mistake and come running back. Intellectually I know that is not going to happen but convincing my heart of that is another story.
Yeah she didn't wake up one day and decide to leave, it happened little by little over a long period of time. If recon happens, it'll happen on a similar timeline- slowly reconnecting over time.
Goals: Be happy, fun, use wife's first name at least once in conversation (that seems to always jolt her a little bit), get her to stay at least 15 minutes.
Wait, what? Why are your goals so W-centric? And why are you trying to make her stay?
My personal goals are still intact: do yoga, meditate, spend more time with friends, get my yard looking good, read everyday, join new softball team, go on solo trip, continue with my IC, acupuncture. All those things I am doing and feeling good about.
Relationship wise when I talk with my DB coach she says what will it look like for things to start changing in your relationship - so her staying around the house longer and being more comfortable is one of the things it 'looks' like.
Anniversary yesterday. W texted about noon, letting me know if I wanted to take D to gymnastics there were passes paid for on the account. Unnecessary text on her part. It makes me wonder even more what she could possibly be thinking or is she crazy.
When she dropped of D in the evening she had a bag with stuff for the plane. She is taking D on a trip that leaves on Friday night. Long story but her mom is coming in from out of town for a job interview and then planning to take D on the night flight on Friday. W is on business trip and can't get back in time to take the night flight on Friday. D has flown w/ grandma before and it really is par for the course in their family to concoct situations like this but it seems like something you would communicate with your co-parent.
We have had so few conversations about parenting/R/our situation its almost awkward to have these conversations.
Chase,
Your spending way too much time trying to read into what she is doing.
What are your plans for when they are gone?
I am aware that I am to focused on what she is doing- but its hard for me to let go. I stay busy, have lots of activities going on but I am in the fake it until you make it mode. Our custody situation right now means I have to see her every 2-3 days.
I have a trip planned to California- visiting some family for a few days and then doing some solo beach time.
We have had so few conversations about parenting/R/our situation its almost awkward to have these conversations.
Hello Chase20,
It isn't surprising that these conversations are awkward.
You're working with a DB Coach, right? I would definitely discuss this with your coach.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
I wish this would start getting easier! Almost 6 months of separation and 1 month of DBing/one month since said she was going to look into mediation but I haven't heard anything since. I still spend way to much time thinking about our situation and being so sad about how it has all ended up.
Every time I check the mail or get a phone call from an unknown number part of me stresses that I am going to be contacted by a mediator. I feel like this part of my life is happening to me and I am not in control of it.
I have thought about looking into my own legal representation - but every time I google search lawyers, I lose it and start crying. Is that what people would advise before she brings it up again?
Just in the last week I have started to be more angry about this situation. I don't want to sit in limbo for years and be someones plan B. I do love her but I have grown so much and am in such a different place in life than she is.
Chase,
I haven't posted on your thread, but I have been reading along. I just want to encourage you, that everything you are describing as far as your feelings, I totally identify with and am standing right alongside you, cheering you on.
This may be the hardest chapter of life that you have seen so far, and just like me, you are suffering. But there WILL come a day, if you hang in there and follow the DB advice, when it begins to ease off, and you start to feel alive again. Not every day, but a day now and then, is better than the bottomless pit we first find ourselves in!
Keep reading other's threads, and keep posting, and before you know it, a stronger, better Chase will be right there, with or without the one you came here about to start.
We will all be OK. And we are here for you!
I will keep going!
Self-esteem takes a hit, I have to keep reminding myself that I am a good person, worth loving and deserve a good relationship.
I had a great day yesterday! My trip started with an early flight. Met over at my aunts house and we all packed up for the beach. My cousin is also in town with her two kids. We are close in age. We went for a long walk (too long for me) but we found a distillery and some wine tasting so that made it worth it! I left my phone in the bag and hardly check it which helps me forget about my situation. I am not constant checking my phone to see if W texted or called. We haven't talked in four days but today I need to contact her so I can facetime my D.
At the end of the night my cousin told me when she gets back from her vacation she is splitting from her husband. They have been having problems for three years but hadn't heard anything lately so I thought things must have been better. She was telling me it was done and she was planning for divorce. I was blown away, we don't have any D in our family. Maybe she beat me to it and will pave the way.... ha. She is a few years older than me and I always looked up to her. So if she can walk through this fire I can too.
Any thoughts on me talking to a lawyer at this point? I do want more stability for my D and I am the only one providing that right now. On Friday W never called to help with any plans to get our D to the airport (since she was flying cross country with W's mom which wasn't communicated with me either). Her mom called me and said oh well I will rent a car seat at the airport and uber to your house and then uber back to the airport. Who does that? How about you ask me to drive our D to the airport its 15 min away. So frustrating.
So far my trip has been amazing. After the time spent hanging out with my family I went on my solo adventure. I made the goal of talking to at least 3 people each day and far exceeded that.
Yesterday afternoon I was in a wine shop and chatting with the owners and they invited me to dinner. It was such a great time with a unique and fun group of people. We all walked out to watch the fireworks. This is so much more like the me of years ago when I was engaging with other people and finding myself in some cool spots.
I think I had talked myself into the fact that I wasn't as social as my W (which I am not, but still social in my own right). That I couldn't do those things like I used to and be engaging and get invites from strangers to do cool things! Big boost for my self-esteem.
I can feel my W trying to play some games with the distance, so my DB coach and I decided to try to give her a little bit more and see if she starts reaching out again. So after facetime with my daughter yesterday, I texted her - 'thank you and hope you guys have fun'. She responded with 'you too'. Today I asked the universe for a sign (I know I shouldn't do that since my house got broken into) and 10 minutes later she sent me a message saying she could probably pick me up from the airport tomorrow. As I was deciding what to do an old lady gaga song came on the radio which was our song when we were first dating so I decided that was enough of a sign to say yes.
This is such a dance since a few days ago she wouldn't even communicate with me about our Ds travel plans. A 2 year old flying across the country, not a peep from her!
We had a short text exchange and I ended my side first. If I hadn't texted her thank you and have fun I don't think she would have text me at all today.
My personal goals are still intact: do yoga, meditate, spend more time with friends, get my yard looking good, read everyday, join new softball team, go on solo trip, continue with my IC, acupuncture. All those things I am doing and feeling good about.
Excellent, keep it up!
Relationship wise when I talk with my DB coach she says what will it look like for things to start changing in your relationship - so her staying around the house longer and being more comfortable is one of the things it 'looks' like.
I think what the coach is encouraging you to do is positive visualization. So many LBSers come here with a VERY negative outlook. Just in the last couple of days I bet I've read 6 different comments along the lines of "I need to accept that it's over and he's/ she's never coming back." Negative energy KILLS any recon chances, and also makes the LBS a miserable, depressed mess. This is why we say get out, get a life, reconnect with old friends, rebuild your life, become strong and independent. Because if you do that you will have nothing but positive thoughts and you will be HAPPY, and happiness is infectious. The WAS is NOT happy, and when they see the LBS happy then they start thinking "wow, what is he doing? I want that (and him) in my life!" Anyway, my point is the coach is trying to get you to visualize a positive outcome and see that it is not only possible but probable if you can change your attitude.
So my point is, making her stay for 15 minutes should not be your goal. Your goal should be self-improvement. If she stays for 15 minutes -on her own- then that is a sign that what you are doing is working. It is a result. See the difference? It's important to set proper goals and achieve them. But they need to be 100% under your control, not dealing with what your W will do or what you want to make her do. I am belaboring this point a bit because if your goal is for her to stay X minutes, then your actions will be geared towards delaying her and tying her up with more talking, or showing her pictures or whatever at a time she does NOT want that. So you may hold her there for X minutes and count that as a benchmark victory when in fact it may make your sitch worse. Now if she WANTS to linger then that's different.
I have thought about looking into my own legal representation - but every time I google search lawyers, I lose it and start crying. Is that what people would advise before she brings it up again?
I understand that feeling and remember it too well. Personally I asked W if I could review the D papers before she served me to see if we could agree on how to split things up. She allowed it, I reviewed the papers and marked them up (mostly correcting errors), we met and reviewed the comments and she sent the revisions to her L and that's what I ended up being served with. Later W decided it wasn't equitable and went for more money, I weighed just agreeing versus fighting it and decided I would probably spend more in L fees fighting it plus would have to deal with the misery of a court battle so in the end I agreed to it and the court date ended up just being a formality. So I never did have an L.
Just in the last week I have started to be more angry about this situation. I don't want to sit in limbo for years and be someones plan B. I do love her but I have grown so much and am in such a different place in life than she is.
Anger is definitely a normal part of the grieving process. There are 5 stages and we all go through them in different order and can even cycle back and forth between them multiple times until we finally get to acceptance.