First time here, part 3 - DivorceBusting.com

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http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2737108#Post2737108

Good luck this weekend. I hope you are resting up and putting yourself in a positive frame of mind. If all else fails, go bowling.

So...... things are playing out pretty much as I expected. By last night, I had not heard from him since Saturday. That in and of itself I think is disrespectful- because on Saturday, I felt a postponement coming, and I said, please let me know because I don't want to be left at the last minute with no holiday plans if you back out. He said I will keep you posted. But he has not. So I texted him last night and said Are you still coming? He came back with all this junk about office architect plans they are waiting on for approval that he will have to be present to sign, and some other stuff. He ended the text by saying "so I don't know if it will be this week or next week when I come." ASSUMING that his time is more valuable than mine, I guess, since he didn't even say- will that work for you, etc.
After a bit, I texted back and said- very kindly- "look, I know you have obligations and I can tell you don't feel comfortable leaving work with things undone right now. Why don't we postpone this until maybe the middle of June? Maybe then we can decide if we even still want to see each other. That way you don't have to feel torn. I'm not being mean. I'm just trying to take any pressure off of you so you can do your work. Our relationship can wait. I'm fine either way."
As usual, no response, but no surprise there. So as of right now, he is still scheduled to fly here tomorrow, and I guess he'll let me know something by tonight. I just think that's rude and disrespectful of my time. I'm doing nothing to prepare for his visit, because I don't think it will happen right now. And honestly, I am fine with that. I'm not sure I want to see him at this point, anyway.
I know one thing. If he does back out, I'll be having the GAL holiday weekend like a boss. That kind of sounds like more fun to me anyway.
Updates as they come......

Quote:

things are playing out pretty much as I expected.

Leah, I'm going to get tough with you. I say the following because: I care for you, I want you to be happy, and I recognize some of myself in you. No judgment, just some tough love

I'm sorry about the complications, but I do suspect that you're doing something I've seen you do before: having expectations and approaching the situation with H from the perspective of a victim. You're very clearly feeling disappointment, and you're reacting to that disappointment in a way that is then changing the dynamic between the two of you.

You can't feel disappointed unless you had expectations. In that way, the disappointment you feel isn't on H. It's on you.

I know that you're a human being and this stuff is hard work. None of us are perfect. Your personal challenge is those pesky expectations, because they keep re-emerging!

The planning of the trip isn't something that you need to be involved in, is it? He's coming to see you, so let him worry about all of that that. And the circumstances (his work and the strange state of your M) mean that you might get late notice, so let's reframe all of this so that Leahsue is in her "happy GAL state", ok?

How about a different perspective where Leah comes first? She's off living her life and having fun, and her life does not currently involve rotating around an H who chose to step out on her.

Make plans, but picture H as no more than a possible addition to those plans, as opposed to a central feature. That way it doesn't matter if he's there or not, or if he gives you adequate notice or not. He also will get a peek into the fact that your life goes on without him, and that is a very attractive thing for him to witness.

H should be pursuing you in all ways. Putting yourself first allows him to do that. He knows he hurt you, and giving him any impression that he's still central in your life whenever he chooses is going to lower your perceived value. Really try and stop having expectations that he'll visit. Maybe he will! Maybe he won't! Either way, your life goes on, right?

So carry on with planning your life as is, and if he joins, that's great! If he doesn't, no skin off of your back.

If you can successfully adopt and communicate this attitude, it will have a nice side effect of lowering the pressure H feels. That will be a fantastic thing for the two of you.

Lower the stakes and make this a win/win for both of you, no matter what happens.

P.S. I would be slipping up in the exact same ways if I were in your situation! The frequent contact and the limbo state makes it so goshdarn tempting to develop expectations...

Yes Cadence, I agree with all you said.
That helped me be ready for the phone call that came with more "work" excuses of deadlines, etc. and he has postponed. I was ready though. I said in a very upbeat voice, That is fine. I know your work means a lot to you right now, and I'm sure it's hard to leave it. That's why I suggested we put this visit off until maybe late June or July. He said, well, I changed the flights to June 9-19. I said (very kindly) well that won't work for me. I already have plans. Of course I'm not telling you that you can't come to AL, of course you can, but I won't be here. And then I said again, that's why I suggested that we wait a while. Then I said, look H, we all have choices to make, and I have come to a place in my life where I accept that your work is your top priority, and I don't judge you for that, and I can't really say I understand, because I've never loved a job like that, but I get it. I just can't sit around and wait any longer. I think let's give this some time, you have a great holiday weekend, and I will too.... and maybe somewhere down the road we can catch up.
He was completely silent.
And I didn't want to just hang up and be accused of that later, so I said (again very calmly and sweetly) OK? And he said all sad and pitiful - "OK".
And I hung up.
And for now. friends, I am done with back and forth. I meant everything I said. I deserve more than this. No matter what label we put on him or me..... if he wants a relationship, he can do the heavy lifting from now on, or we can go our separate ways. At some point, you just have had enough, and you really start putting yourself first. I guess I'm there.

Leahsue,

I know that was hard as h$ll to do but I am a true believer that standing up for yourself and saying "I'm not waiting around anymore" is the only way to proceed. When someone changes the terms of a relationship/marriage that you don't agree with the strongest negotiation is to walk a away and never look back until they are ready to commit 100% to reconciliation.

Be extremely proud of yourself!

Brava!

Thanks for the comments! I's still kind of reeling from the step I believe that I took today, It was a boundary, maybe not stated, but you know them when you see them, you know?
And I held firm.
Maybe you have to get to a place where you realize you can't control any of this, there's a reason for this, or it just life handing you a 6 of hearts when you're holding the other 3 sixes, then you wake up and it was a dream.

I don't want to ignore the heart part of this sitch, but honestly, I am being as honest as I know how- I DON'T CARE ANYMORE. HE IS FREE, I AM FREE. I can re-invent myself here in this house and town and state, and what I do from here is my decision.

Please don't ignore my post because you think I have one up on you.... this is, in some ways, harder than it's ever been. And I need you, 25, and Sara, and Cadence, and Own, and Tryin...... my go-to places when all else seems lost.

Originally Posted By: leahsue

Thanks for the comments! I's still kind of reeling from the step I believe that I took today, It was a boundary, maybe not stated, but you know them when you see them, you know?
And I held firm.
Maybe you have to get to a place where you realize you can't control any of this, there's a reason for this, or it just life handing you a 6 of hearts when you're holding the other 3 sixes, then you wake up and it was a dream.

I don't want to ignore the heart part of this sitch, but honestly, I am being as honest as I know how- I DON'T CARE ANYMORE. HE IS FREE, I AM FREE. I can re-invent myself here in this house and town and state, and what I do from here is my decision.

I call this^^ a momentary sampling of Detachment. Try to remember it when it slips away...

Please don't ignore my post because you think I have one up on you.... this is, in some ways, harder than it's ever been. And I need you, 25, and Sara, and Cadence, and Own, and Tryin...... my go-to places when all else seems lost.

okay since I'm - legally- married to a DOCTOR (and feel I must put that in all caps b/c it's SO important...)

I'm quite fatigued by the "work commitments". Are you serious? Forget it. No thanks, been there, done that. And raised 3 kids pretty much as a single mother.

If/WHEN your m is the priority it always should have been, he can visit.

If it were me, I'd be making my plans as if he's in Antartica and IF IF IF he really makes plans and follows thru, deal with it then.

I would not suggest another specific date but blow it off like "well, maybe someday our paths will cross but meanwhile, have a great summer. Buh BYE"

because frankly, if he cannot MAKE this happen, now, then truly, why bother?
It's just delaying your forward movement with more limbo.

He lacks clarity and his priorities are still skewed. You are STILL not the priority. OMG

Would you date and then get into a serious r with a man who openly shows that you are not "THE" priority in his life but maybe...someday...later...when northing more interesting is happening?...(which is the very type of man to be tempted to wander when times get tough, and life always gives us tough times eventually).

You need and deserve a man who has your back, including making the marital R the main priority in his life. Particularly when it needs to heal from the damage HE inflicted.... OMG (again!)

If he cannot MAKE the effort your m so richly deserves, now, how on earth could you two do the really really hard part of this, known as piecing? Excuse me but what is he offering to you?

Knowing what I know now, (and sorry if I'm overly projecting)

I'd let him do the heavy lifting for a long time, before I'd go all in.

Sorry...

Thanks 25. You are exactly right.
My sister said almost what you said verbatim. And I know it's true.
It's time I faced the music.
No more effort from me to even meet him halfway.
I just can't any more.

Thanks Sara.
I'm going to do some fun things this weekend, but I have to admit my heart is a little heavy today. Even as I say that though, I realize that part of me is a little relieved to not be constantly watching my phone, focusing on him. I know I'm nowhere the detachment I need to be, but I'm a heck of a lot closer than I was 24 hours ago. At least I'm back to the stage of NC- which I've said before, is so much easier for me to maintain than that hot and cold, push and pull, which were all on his terms anyway. I feel a lot more free today. And so far, not really all that sad. Nights are hardest.

Just some random thoughts this morning....
This weekend has been harder than I thought it would be. I think because I did not plan enough GAL to do on my own, since the plan was for H to be here. I had spent so much time planning things to keep US busy, then when the visit got canceled, most of those things wouldn't work for just me. So I've had way too much alone time, which usually leads to sadness. I'm going to try and step it up today. I don't have trouble making new friends, but I'm having trouble figuring out where to meet them. All the groups I look into so far are either senior citizen groups, or young single adults who want relationships. Really all I want are people to do fun things with in a group. I'll keep looking.

I did have some rather drastic thoughts this morning about just bringing this whole thing to a conclusion- I considered just getting on a plane today, checking into a hotel near H's apt., maybe watch for a day or so, or maybe just walk right up to him. That could either go very positively, or horribly bad.

So many friends have said to me, well I wouldn't just be sitting here waiting for him to make all the decisions about your relationship-I'd be in his face, demanding answers, calling him out,..... but that's just not me. For me to just show up and see him face to face would be the most dramatic 180 I could ever do. He would be shocked. But maybe I would be also, and not in a good way.

I've had NC since I told him the new dates of his visit wouldn't work for me. I don't know if he'll keep those dates and come anyway, or re-schedule, or just let the ticket go. He will have to be the one to decide that though, then if the times work out for me to see him, I will.

If I'd ever been given the magical gift of mind-reading, this would be a great time to use it.

The hardest part is putting the decisions in somebody else's hands. Especially when that person doesn't seem to be in the right state of mind. And friends giving their advice always makes you seem foolish. Which is why I have stopped telling friends and family things. But that's all we can do. GAL in many cases never seems to go the way we hope they do entirely. That's why its good to always have a back up plan just in case. When plans fall through my mind always goes back to my sitch. So I've learned to always be prepared to do something else.

Don't show up for a face to face, unless you plan on fighting for the MR. And since you say that would be your 180, it might might something to him. Anything else is just going to make you look crazy and cause him to run even farther.

Originally Posted By: PsySara

I'm really proud of you. You came across confident, cheerful and detached. This starts him thinking that you are moving forward (because you are!) and that he has a "sliding door moment" to either step through or maybe miss this opportunity forever. I am a physician and watch fellow physicians destroy their lives by making their work the only priority. Most of them are single/divorced or perpetually moving from one relationship to another.
I got into an argument with my program director once because he said I had no ambition. I reflected back that my ambition was there but with different goals.

Sara, I'm a L by training, m to a DOCTOR, for 35 years. And Known hundreds of MDs. I will offer 4 vignettes to ponder.

1) ALL of the staff physicians I knew who discussed or pushed more "ambition" to the younger colleagues, are divorced and have very distant r's from their children.

(If they are in their original m's they would push more balance).

Urging the same behavior that ruined their own families, seems like a cruel way to justify their choices as if to say they had no choice. (But then, just b/c they are DOCTORS, doesn't mean they are emotionally brave or self aware.)

2) our d28 feared h when she was young, b/c she did not know him. Literally, she asked me who he was when he came home one night. That hurt h and it was a moment of consciousness, painful for all of us. I think it briefly sank in. But I suspect it later = sacrifice on HIS end....HIS loss, more about HIS suffering and not the vacuum it was for my single parenting or loss for our lovely d28.

3) recently d19 asked h for food money for her summer away. H said he is "tired of being used for money." D19 said to me, without rancor, "what else would I use dad for? Deep talks? We've never had any. Spending time together? I'm in college now, that ship has sailed..."

Isn't that ^^ just freaking tragic?

4) Last, we knew a couple in which both were MDs. They seemed to want to out earn the other and both took lots of call.

One or both of their kids had a lot of emotional issues and the father MD told me that he & his w had "done everything for them...we hire therapists and tutors and mentors and they see a shrink too..."

All I could think of was that those kids were screaming for attention, and all these DOCTORS could do, was hire more surrogates.

Sara, please remind yourself of these ^^ moments, these times YOU could have had,

if you were making other "ambitious" choices.

My goal was to do work I enjoyed with the aim of coming home each evening to have dinner with my children. I also don't jump at working weekends (like my colleagues for $$$$) because I'd rather be with my kids.

My WH is like yours in that his work has oftentimes interfered with family time. While the kids are young this doesn't register with the little ones but the future will make for a lonely time for WH if he doesn't start getting a work-life balance. I let go of the rope and now WH comes home more consistently. You're doing well, keep plugging along. I want updates on your GAL weekend!

Tread, just curious why you said "only show up for a face to face if you're going to fight for the marriage"..... I guess, in a way, I AM fighting for the marriage. Neither of us has said we want a divorce. We just live 1000 miles apart right now, and I got tired of his planning visits here, then postponing due to work deadlines, only calling or texting sporadically, etc. He is not overtly trying to divorce me, but he is certainly not pursuing me either, with the exception of planning to visit, which has now been delayed 3 times. So honestly, I don't think we really "fit" into a certain stage in the DB wheel. I think I'll have a better idea once he makes his way here for a visit. In the meantime, I'm NC. That's about the only thing that feels right to me, at this point. Make sense?

I would stay NC right now. Do not even think about buying a plane ticket. That would be disastrous!

Leah, I agree with Thornton. I think it would be disastrous if you did that. I can see that you have a hard time with patience. I did for a long time too, not sure where I suddenly found it. I think it was when I decided that I was ok with divorce. I can't stop him, but I'm not doing it for him.

I think your H is still way too much the focus of your life and that you view him as a necessity for your own happiness. Do not give anyone that power over you. You are such an amazing and plucky woman. Get out there and live that life and be that independent dynamo that squeezes joy out of every moment.

Vent to us (and share your cockamamie schemes) but with him, be confident, busy and steady. You guys keep dancing so close to one another that you will collide at some point here. Just be patient.

Thanks Thornton and Own,

I'm trying. I don't know why it's so DAM(N) hard right now.

Originally Posted By: leahsue

Thanks Thornton and Own,

I'm trying. I don't know why it's so DAM(N) hard right now.

expectations of the weekend you had planned and hoped for, would be my guess.

I'm sorry.

Leah,
I did something similar to your plan/fantasy. I got off work early one day and drove over to WH's job and texted him from the lobby of his hospital. He texted back he didn't want to see me and asked me to go home. I stood there in the lobby deeply humiliated and feeling more rejected. The fact is that when Walk-aways and WS are in their selfish groove it pushes them further away when we pursue. Instead of looking strong we come across weak and pathetic. It also just heaps on guilt to the other spouse and that makes them run faster. Please understand I am sharing my shame and mistakes because I don't want you making the same ones. I wish I had been as good as you at NC early in my journey. Instead I pursued with a vengeance and it had the opposite of the desired result. Now I have a WH who I feel has "settled" for me but is unwilling to do anything I need to rebuild trust. If I had been better at NC and chasing myself instead of him I think it would have had more of an eye opening effect on him. It would have made me more confident and secure, that's for sure. Detachment is a process not an end goal. It means getting rid of co-dependent behaviors and building healthy coping skills. It took us a lifetime to learn bad behavior so it's going to take a bit of time to restructure ourselves. Just keep swimming!

Thanks, Sara. I did a better job of NC, etc. at the beginning of all this, before he started coming around again. After several false starts, hopefully I've once again taken the focus off of him. If and when he comes to visit, then I'll see how I feel about a visit at that point. In the meantime, I have to GAL more whole-heartedly, and keep myself even busier than I already have.
I did much better today. I went to a cook out, actually had fun, drank a little, came home, went to a neighbor's and had more fun just sitting on the porch and visiting. I'm home now, and see I missed a call from H this afternoon. I'm not calling back or texting tonight. I think I won't tomorrow, but rather wait and let him make the next contact. And not because I'm game-playing, but I honestly just don't have anything to say to him right now. And that's a good thing.

Just writing for the sake of seeing it on paper.....
I'm still hanging in there with the NC. I did not return his call that I missed on Monday, then yesterday he called again and I was outside working in the yard, so missed it. I did try to call him back last night but he did not answer. My normal post-BD self would have then texted (just to not lose that contact opportunity-which probably should have been left alone), but I didn't.
I guess we are in that pursuer/distancer dance again, but if we are, then so be it. If I'm available to answer his calls, then I will. If I'm not, well then, I'm just not. I hope I'm doing the right thing. Just a month ago, we were having some really good conversations. Then after he postponed the visit AGAIN, I just got fed up. Perhaps he senses that, but as we all know, who knows? I just have to do the next right thing, one day at a time. I DO feel less taken for granted. It may blow up our chances of R, but I didn't feel good about always being available, and kind, and having no expectations. I think for all of these reasons, when the time does come for a visit, I'll be better prepared to truly be AS IF. And I wouldn't have been ready this week.

Cadence, if you happen to stop by and read this, just wondering how things are going with you.... I haven't been on here as much lately so I may have missed if you posted, but hopefully, if you haven't, that's a good sign that you are doing well. Let me hear from you!

Now that's GAL! I need to start taking a leaf from your book and turn outward again. I think it's so easy to slide back into complacency when you're living in house with the walkaway/wayward. I need to get out with some friends and hang loose.

You should be proud of yourself, you are detaching with style. This man is an utter fool if he doesn't chase you.

Sara,
I can't imagine detaching while having to see him everyday!! My hat is off to you. You've been so self-confident and strong for so long. And in very difficult circumstances. Just watching you march through this season in your life with your head held high is an inspiration to me, to treat myself with more respect, and realize that I deserve better. My prayer for both of us is that we keep that reminder in the active part of our brains, and act accordingly. Let the fools fall where they may, but we will come out of this better, stronger women than we ever could have been, without this debacle.
Make some GAL time for Sara, so others can see the steel Magnolia named Sara. We got this!

Quote:

If I'm available to answer his calls, then I will. If I'm not, well then, I'm just not. I hope I'm doing the right thing.

I think that sounds great.

Quote:

Cadence, if you happen to stop by and read this, just wondering how things are going with you.... I haven't been on here as much lately so I may have missed if you posted, but hopefully, if you haven't, that's a good sign that you are doing well. Let me hear from you!

Thanks so much. It's nice to know someone's thinking of me.

Truthfully, it's been a struggle. I weaned myself off some ADs that had me in a fog and made me not able to think (I gave it time to see if it would let up and it didn't), and so I've been feeling depressed and down.

I had an IC appointment today with someone new. It went okay but it was mostly catching her up on my life to date and what I was struggling with. So no relief there.

After H called my mom, there was a day or two of silence and then he wrote asking for my lawyer's contact info. He said he'd get one too and they could negotiate (after finally accepting I wasn't interested in doing that informally). I sent him the info and asked him to do the same when he'd gotten a lawyer.

Then, there was about a week and a half of silence. It felt like he was trying to bait me into calling him to find out what was going on. Then yesterday his attorney called me and left a voicemail, and sent me an email confirming her call and asking me to please give her my lawyer's name and contact information.

What the? I'd already given it to H. Why would he give his new lawyer my contact information and not the information he already had? Is it a game? So I found the email I'd written him on the 17th, forwarded it to his lawyer and cc'd him. It's not my job to give his lawyer information he already has.

I went to dinner with a friend last night and she told me she doesn't think H is going to come back this time because of the negativity over the house. I find that really upsetting.

I'm still angsting over what to do about the financial arrangements. I really don't know what is right. Maybe it's time for a DB coach.

Sorry to hijack, but you asked for it!

Yes I did ask for it, and it's so good to hear from you. (I know I should have looked up your thread but I was short on time.)
Of course I don't know every detail of your sitch, in fact, no one does but you and your man. However, just from what I know, I think you need to remember what got you here, and that he is not your burden to carry through this breaking up process. If the financial problems come up for him, remind yourself that he is a grown man, and put himself in this place. No reason for you to suffer financially, on top of all the other crap he has heaped on you.
I know that seems cold. But what he did to you was cold also. I'm not into the "give what you got" mindset, but I'm also not into the "poor, sad me, look what you're doing to me financially" theme either. I think you have to do what's right for you, to prepare as if you will be alone for a while, and then, moment by moment, just DO THE NEXT RIGHT THING. It will carry you all the way home.
I think of you way more often than I post. Just know that. And you can always reach out to me.

By the way.... side note.
Since the BD, every time I think of being with anyone besides H, I have either cried openly, or at best, just cringed at the thought. I haven't seen his face since Jan. 1. So the last thing on my mind has been anyone else.
HOWEVER, yesterday, in the house next door that recently sold, there comes a man to build the cabinets, re-do the floors, etc. And as I was cutting grass, looking my VERY absolute sweatiest, unattractive self, here he comes to introduce himself. We chatted for a few minutes, and he said, I'll be here for quite a while since she needs a lot of work done inside. Just seems like a "good ole boy", which is exactly what I've always been drawn toward. Anyway, it was pleasant to note that last night, I found my mind drifting back to our meeting, and almost felt that- Hey, I could possibly still have a life out there, somewhere. It was a reassuring thought that my life and being a desirable woman may not necessarily be over forever.
Which does nothing but make me stronger, with the full realization that Sara is right, H will be an utter fool not to chase me. SMILE.

So after I missed two phone calls from H at the beginning of this week, and did NOT follow my normal MO, which would have been to text sorry I missed your call blah blah......, but rather stayed NC, he has continued with what I think of as spoiled, entitled behavior, which is to "show me" by not calling any more. I held out though, and I meant when there was further contact, it would be him making it. I wake up this morning and there is a text from him, "When is your Ya-Ya trip?" which is the reason I told him his re-scheduled trip would not work for me. I eventually texted back just simply, June 9-12. It will be interesting to see what happens next.
Handyman from next door just stopped by to chat again, and brought me his card. Hmmmmm. Good for the self-confidence. Which as we all know takes a real beating after BD.

I've noticed that some LBS, particularly males, will do some trial and error flirting and even have lunch with a female. Their goal isn't to start a new relationship but rather test the waters to see if they are still in the running. They almost universally return with confidence and more energy to DB. If I wasn't living with my WH and allegedly piecing then I would give it a go. Human are usually very predictable and the walk-aways often get jealous and suddenly realize their spouses may not wait on them much longer.

I watched the LRT video and MWD mentions that a woman was texting a female friend about how excited she was to visit her friend and lots of effusive comments. Unbeknownst to her, her husband was able to view these conversations on an ipad and became jealous and suddenly engaged back into the marriage. I think walk-aways feel their spouse won't move on, won't be able to find someone else and that they can depend on their spouses for plan B. Surprise, surprise when they find that to be untrue.

Thanks, Sara,
When I see your comments actually written out, it brings it all home to me.
OF COURSE, I don't want to be thinking about other men. But we are all human, and long for a connection, if nothing else, just to remember that just because our wayward spouse did not want us any more, does not mean that NO ONE DOES!
I'm afraid, both of loving again, and at the same time, of not loving again.
I'm not ready for that part of my life to be over.
But I know who I want it to happen with, and that may not be in the cards for me.
I think the healthiest thing for me to do right now, is sit back, watch how H handles the next few weeks, and react with my honest heart felt guide. No expectations, but no settling for less, either.
I have so many thoughts swirling through my head tonight.
I just need to chill out, watch some mindless TV, and let tomorrow be another day.

Cadence

(Leah, sorry for the hijack, I'll be brief!)

the L your h hired & who emailed you for info, she MIGHT be churning fees to "confirm/verify" the identity of your L.

Or there's a legit reason to confirm, like she thinks your h is flaky, disorganized, etc.

Or she has to hear it from you, with local customs in place, etc.

I doubt that in this particular sitch, your h is playing a game on purpose.
Just my .02

as for hiring a DB coach, I always support that. But don't confuse a DB coach with a L and don't confuse a L with a therapist (& believe me, I've done both).

((( )))

Leah,

Friends who tell you why WAS will/won't return are totally speculating but usually
I think they want us to protect ourselves by keeping our hopes down. I get that.

I think we are supposed to completely work on having no expectations and to protect ourselves financially, & to remember that anytime in this process and even after a divorce, couples can reconcile.

On occasion, the freedom so desperately sought by and demanded by the WAS is only achieved by a divorce.

Maybe only then, can they finally look around at the spouse they left behind, who is now living their own life. (& that part is 100% in the LBSers control).

Only then, perhaps - is the light shined on the history and commonality in their r. Even then, the WAS would need to face the wreckage they created, then do a lot of work to rebuild.

No LBS can wait for ^^that, or expect it, but maybe a part of your heart can hold a tiny piece of hope. Hope is allowed.

Hope has to be disconnected somehow, from expectations & cannot hinder GAL and feeling free.

Because like it or not, you are or will be free. And more WASs do not return than do.

Some argue that hope has to be eliminated or the LBSer simply won't move on.

I think if you are careful, you can have hope safely coupled with embracing what life is offering/forcing upon you.

Make sense?

Yes 25, makes perfect sense. Thanks for taking the time to stop by.

The statement you made in someone else's thread (and I can't remember who right now) struck a chord with me. You said we have to decide if we can live with the way they are treating us (as we begin to work back toward R).

Well, I realized, I can't.
I don't like the way he has not only abandoned me, but his mother, siblings, favorite BIL. That has never been his way. One of the reasons I fell in love with him was his deep commitment to the people he loved. That appears to be gone.
He was a very tender, loving man who would tear up at a Hallmark commercial. Now, he won't return phone calls, unless it suits him, or texts, sometimes at all. Not just mine. His other loved ones too.
He used to openly adore me, and didn't mind telling anyone who would listen. Now he can go 4-5 days in a row, with no contact with me at all.
He does not show one single bit of excitement or even interest in anything but his work.
For whatever reason, he keeps planning, then canceling, an extended visit here. But I don't know how he thinks that is going to fix anything. He has not stated that he want a R. All he has said is- we just need to spend some time together.... which if I'm honest, is far from saying he's back in the game.
The one time I mentioned him being attracted to me or not, he did not offer one single bit of encouragement or affirmation, but instead, turned it around and said, I don't know why you would think I'm not attracted to you. My question back to him should have been, Why in the world would I think you are?
We spoke on the phone last night, and even after I told him his re-scheduled dates would not work for me, he still has his trip planned for then, knowing I will be tied up for the first 3 days of it.
We had a horrible conversation about all of that. No DBing there. It was late and I was tired and I should never have engaged in the conversation. We hung up in anger. I tried to call him back in just a few minutes to suggest another way to work the dates, but he would not answer his phone.
I was awake all night thinking about how easily he has just let go of me. I think this visit will be a disaster. It's too long, especially if things go badly.
So today, I just made a decision.
If I am going to engage at all from here on out, he is going to have to show me that he wants us to work toward that. And he is going to have to act like it.
I basically told him that the way he is able to ignore me when things get too heated for him, shows me very clearly that any feelings he had for me are gone. I also told him I cannot see why he would possibly want to visit me in light of that, unless it is to bring divorce papers, and we don't have to meet in person for that. I said if you still come south to see your family, maybe we can meet for lunch or something. But if that does not interest you, then that's OK too. I said I'm sorry this is how things turned out.
Since then, silence.
Based on his past actions after a discussion like this, he will wait a few days, then contact me and totally act like the previous conversation never happened. Which makes my words mean what, nothing? So I expect that to happen, or he will just drop the whole thing.

Either way, I can't do this any more. I don't want to be in a relationship with someone who goes hot to cold, ignores me or my calls when it suits him, then calls later like "it's all good". It would be different if he hadn't kept wanting to see me and spend time with me, plans it, then postpones. I just don't know what the visit means to him, and it makes it almost impossible to truly remain neutral about the outcome. It almost feels like the visit will be an audition, to see if I'm worth the work that would lie ahead of us.

Last night he kept saying, I am 95% of the way to seeing this work thing to its conclusion, and I've come too far to drop it now. I've put all this time and effort in it for 18 months, and I can't just walk away. I said, that's what most people say about their relationships, not their JOBS. Work will always be there, but every time you postpone your visit, you choose work over me. He disagreed, but that's exactly what it is. He said, If I'm not here, things don't get done.
I'm sure he truly believes that, but a job cannot be there in the place of people and relationships. I don't understand why he can't have both. But he compartmentalizes things, and always has. This is to a ridiculous degree.

Today, for the first time, I think I know in my heart that it is over for good. I am so very sad, and lonely, but I'm trying not to confuse those emotions with love. I don't think I even love him anymore.

I do love and value me, though. And I will be OK.

Okay Leah, right now it $uck$ to be you. I totally get that. I'm just wondering why you are putting negatives on his emotions instead of being confident that he "should" have positives and isn't showing them....

let me see if I can clarify...

Originally Posted By: leahsue

Yes 25, makes perfect sense. Thanks for taking the time to stop by.

The statement you made in someone else's thread (and I can't remember who right now) struck a chord with me. You said we have to decide if we can live with the way they are treating us (as we begin to work back toward R).

Well, I realized, I can't.
I don't like the way he has not only abandoned me, but his mother, siblings, favorite BIL. That has never been his way. One of the reasons I fell in love with him was his deep commitment to the people he loved. That appears to be gone.

we don't know if it's gone for good, or absent without leave. There is a difference

but you may not care if it's permanent b/c hey, it could happen again and without a lot of assurances as to why it won't, or better gauges for checking in, it's a damn big risk.

FAIR enough.

He was a very tender, loving man who would tear up at a Hallmark commercial. Now, he won't return phone calls, unless it suits him, or texts, sometimes at all. Not just mine. His other loved ones too.
He used to openly adore me, and didn't mind telling anyone who would listen. Now he can go 4-5 days in a row, with no contact with me at all.
He does not show one single bit of excitement or even interest in anything but his work.
For whatever reason, he keeps planning, then canceling, an extended visit here. But I don't know how he thinks that is going to fix anything. He has not stated that he want a R. All he has said is- we just need to spend some time together.... which if I'm honest, is far from saying he's back in the game.

Fair points^^^. OTOH any WAS trying to reconcile, (or most, I assume) need to probe a bit before returning or live in the same area, etc.

They are risking too...know what I mean?

The one time I mentioned him being attracted to me or not, he did not offer one single bit of encouragement or affirmation, but instead, turned it around and said, I don't know why you would think I'm not attracted to you. My question back to him should have been, Why in the world would I think you are?

We spoke on the phone last night, and even after I told him his re-scheduled dates would not work for me, he still has his trip planned for then, knowing I will be tied up for the first 3 days of it.

is he trying to prove something? Are there a lot of other things for him to do there, without you? I'm not clear on why he'd do this unless his schedule is really busy...

We had a horrible conversation about all of that. No DBing there. It was late and I was tired and I should never have engaged in the conversation. We hung up in anger. I tried to call him back in just a few minutes to suggest another way to work the dates, but he would not answer his phone.

I was awake all night thinking about how easily he has just let go of me.

yeah, I hear you...I really truly do...man, it $uck$.

I think this visit will be a disaster. It's too long, especially if things go badly.
So today, I just made a decision.
If I am going to engage at all from here on out, he is going to have to show me that he wants us to work toward that. And he is going to have to act like it.

I understand.

I basically told him that the way he is able to ignore me when things get too heated for him, shows me very clearly that any feelings he had for me are gone.

^^^here is where you've lost me. He RUNS when it gets hot and when he starts to feel negative emotions (whichever emotions those are)

which is NOT to say his feelings are gone. Probably the opposite.

I also told him I cannot see why he would possibly want to visit me in light of that, unless it is to bring divorce papers, and we don't have to meet in person for that. I said if you still come south to see your family, maybe we can meet for lunch or something. But if that does not interest you, then that's OK too. I said I'm sorry this is how things turned out.
Since then, silence.

Based on his past actions after a discussion like this, he will wait a few days, then contact me and totally act like the previous conversation never happened. Which makes my words mean what, nothing? So I expect that to happen, or he will just drop the whole thing.

Wow his conflict resolution skills are just absent. Like gaslight absent. What were his parents like?

My h became very conflict avoidant and sometimes act as if he had amnesia and I guess I was supposed to as well.

When he'd come back from a shocking sneaky trip to Alaska - (which is insanely far and weird to do) he'd say he was "just checking out a job" and act as if I was overreacting or a b1tch of not welcoming him home with open arms at the airport.

Looking back, it made me feel a little crazy to not say "Wtf, this is wrong w/you?"

I also think that shame is a problem with these guys. Like if they admit (at some level) they are way out of line, or have inflicted pain on someone, well, they just cannot look there.

I'm not sure what you can do to "keep the road home, paved and smooth".

In fact, I used to say this^^ a lot based on my db coach's advice. I think it might be smart to do for a recon

but not for piecing. Piecing was way too smooth in hindsight, in my situation. (To be fair, h's mom was diagnosed with terminal cancer shortly after we reconciled so piecing got shelved. Since I don't have a time machine, I just pass that on to you).

Either way, I can't do this any more. I don't want to be in a relationship with someone who goes hot to cold, ignores me or my calls when it suits him, then calls later like "it's all good".

it's pretty crazy making and I understand this^^

It would be different if he hadn't kept wanting to see me and spend time with me, plans it, then postpones. I just don't know what the visit means to him, and it makes it almost impossible to truly remain neutral about the outcome. It almost feels like the visit will be an audition, to see if I'm worth the work that would lie ahead of us.

this^^^ really resonates. I believe it hurt my d's deeply too. God, I hate remembering that. But it's true.

Last night he kept saying, I am 95% of the way to seeing this work thing to its conclusion, and I've come too far to drop it now. I've put all this time and effort in it for 18 months, and I can't just walk away. I said, that's what most people say about their relationships, not their JOBS.

Bingo

Work will always be there, but every time you postpone your visit, you choose work over me. He disagreed, but that's exactly what it is. He said, If I'm not here, things don't get done.

your vision^^^ is the truth. His is not. I'm married (still, legally) to a DOCTOR and this^^ hurts to read. So damn familiar. Decades...OMG I just shook my head typing this out.

I can't even...

I'm sure he truly believes that, but a job cannot be there in the place of people and relationships.

but, so what if he believes it? Is that better than not believing it?

I don't understand why he can't have both. But he compartmentalizes things, and always has. This is to a ridiculous degree.

yes^^^

Today, for the first time, I think I know in my heart that it is over for good. I am so very sad, and lonely, but I'm trying not to confuse those emotions with love. I don't think I even love him anymore.

I do love and value me, though. And I will be OK.

things can change. People can change. But I hear you.

((( )))

Mind reading can be dangerous but I'm betting I'm on target here. If H keeps setting up a trip and then cancelling it, it tells me he's scared. He wants to meet with you but when it gets close he bolts because he's afraid of what might happen. This seems rather easy to figure out / perhaps because I've done it myself at times. Why would he come if you are busy? Ai win, it's very simple, he won't have to spend much time with you. That way he can dip his toe back in the water but not go swimming. It's more manageable for him. What he'd likely rather do is meet for a few hours at a time but the distance doesn't allow for that. Work is not more important to him but it's safe. Meeting with you us not safe and if it goes bad on the first day, he won't be able to run and hide for the other days.

I'll bet money that's what's going on here.

You have some amazing, strong insights into not only my situation, but everyone else on here. It always astonishes me how much you "get" people without even seeing them face to face.
Listen, I don't know what kind of career moves you have in mind in this new stage of your life coming up..... but I think you'd be well-suited to be in this line of work, listening, validating, and asking the thought-provoking questions. As our British friends on here like to say, "Spot on, old chap!"- although I'd paraphrase it to "Spot on, young lady!"

I'm going to do some thinking about all you've said above, and so help me, I'm going to figure out the whole quoting, then responding thing. It makes it so easy to follow along and respond to each thing.

Anyway.... hang in there, 25. In some ways, I hate that your helping on here forces you to drag up such painful areas in your own past, but then again, surely there's healing to be found in that. And I close with this cute thing my sister just texted me.....

No texts? I understand.
No calls? I understand.
No time for me? I understand.
When you see me with someone else, I hope you understand.

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

the L your h hired & who emailed you for info, she MIGHT be churning fees to "confirm/verify" the identity of your L.

Or there's a legit reason to confirm, like she thinks your h is flaky, disorganized, etc.

Or she has to hear it from you, with local customs in place, etc.

I doubt that in this particular sitch, your h is playing a game on purpose.

Thanks, 25. It's just so bizarre to me. I don't think there are any rules about confirming. I hadn't thought of the flaky/unreliable thing but maybe that's it. H was in some sort of a fog where rationality seemed to be far from him, so maybe that's continued and his L picked up on it.

The other thing is that H didn't seem to truly believe anything I did, including signing a lease for an apartment, moving, not returning his calls. It's like he had a narrative in his mind of what I'd do (cling, contact, harass, beg, plead), and evidence to the contrary just didn't seem to register. So it's also possible he told his L that he didn't believe I had a L, even though I sent H his name and phone number.

I'll stop hijacking. I'll journal in my thread when I'm feeling up to it. Now to my darling Leahsue.

Leah, my love, I see that mindreading/expectations combination happening again. Whenever that gears up, you seem to react to it in a way that you push your H away before he can hurt you further.

There's another poster on this forum that has a pattern and once she starts fixating, she does things to push her H away. And the key to not pushing him away is to stop her own thoughts that are working against her interests. That's where the negativity always starts, and I see a pattern with you, too. She cycles. She'll stop it temporarily, but then familiar messages start firing in her brain and she's off and running without even noticing that she's repeating her pattern.

With that pushing away, there's a difference between seeing a healthy strong state of mind with an awareness of our boundaries, and acting out toward another person that has us sitting in the victim chair. I think you think you're doing the former, but it looks like the latter to me (and to your H, too, I bet.)

I think it's fantastic that he's coming when you have plans, and I wish you'd embrace that as something positive (versus anything punitive.)

Overall, I think 25 is onto something with the concept of your H's shame. Your H's ego seemed to need some boosting over the past year, and his job was something that was making him feel great: needed, wanted, virile, smart, successful, etc. To him it's not just a job; it's validation of his worth and that he's still "got it."

And maybe he got a little full of himself and that's why he tried out an A. His ego needed more boosting but he wasn't aware of that.

So here he is. He lives in another part of the country, he knows he's hurt you and he may not even understand why he did it (and he knows you'd deserve an explanation at some point) and any visit is going to be super high stakes. Can you think of it from his perspective, and not take his hesitance personally? Because I don't think it's personal. I think the fact that he's in touch and wants to visit is HUGE. He still loves you, and I would love it if I saw something similar from my H. So, right now, can that be enough for you?

As for H not returning your texts, remember that you've backed off your communication recently. It would make sense that a man with a fragile ego would imitate this behavior to prove a point to you.

Remember that any returning wayward needs to see that their LBS is okay, despite the hurtful actions. This gives them the confidence to start making their way back. If they see that their LBS is hurt, angry, and upset, they are less likely to commit to making their way home.

So, Leah, you're going to have an amazing life no matter what happens with H. Do you believe that? I do. (And so does that handy man!)

If you want your H back, you've got to stop trying to show him your hurt. I know, it feels so incredibly unfair that you'd have to put your emotions on the back burner, because his choices did hurt you. But there is a time and a place, and if your H made his way back and the two of you began piecing, that is when you get to start letting him see that he hurt you.

It's an incredibly difficult balancing act. We all know that you are such a kind person and you didn't deserve any of this. We know it must be so hard for you to have to process your pain and deal with the H who is sitting on the fence but wants frequent contact.

I want you to be strong, positive, and happy, with the knowledge that your H made some poor choices. Try to humanize H, too, and remember that he's very likely scared and wrestling with his own negative emotions. And that's normal and it's not something that you should view as an insult to you. The very fact that he did what he did shows that he's struggling with some self-worth issues, and they're showing up in your R, but he's not doing what he did/does because of a value judgement about you. It's all about him. He still clearly loves you or he wouldn't be doing what he's already doing - he's in touch and wants to see you.

Embrace your life, Leah. H is an addition to that life, and the rollercoaster ups and downs are simply that. Try not to react to them or allow them to breed hurt/insecure feelings or let you develop expectations that this will all be over soon. Both of those thought patters are a trap.

Slow, steady, and positive, Leahsue. Picture yourself like Glinda the Good Witch, happy and glowing in her bubble. You've got to be Glinda, and you've got to put yourself first and love yourself and heal yourself (because right now H can't help you with that. Maybe someday he will be able to do that, once he's re-committed.) You need this perspective for your own good and to best set the stage for a timid H to start making definitive steps toward you.

The grand gesture from a wayward who is now certain of wanting to recommit does not usually come without some baby steps, where they need some reassurance that it's okay to approach. Can you see what your H is doing as baby steps? And he's scared to take those steps because of his own reasons, not because you're not worth his effort.

I love your sister's text, and that she's sending you inspiring words, but I cringed a bit because those words are very much from a victim stance. Someone can not call and not text, and it can be for reasons on their end that are not at all insulting or punitive. However, I will agree that the lack of contact means you can move on if you want. But there's a difference between making decisions from strength, and a passive aggressive one-upmanship.

Positive strength, Leah. Even when things are uncertain. You are no-one's victim, and you can look at someone's actions and try and not take them personally. Especially when it's your H and especially when things are fragile/back-and-forth. You can do it; I know you can.

I hope you found this helpful. I want you to be happy and I want to limit those sleepless nights. I want you to be positive and out there in the sunshine living it up. And your H is that little squirrel high up in the tree whom you're trying to coax out with some peanuts in your hand. It's going to take time for that squirrel to have the confidence to fully come your way. Your H is the same.

Holy cow, Cadence, you should write a book! I need to read this over and over again.

Leah,
Anything I add will be superfluous to Cadence's words. Soak 'em up!

I know, right?????
I've read it over and over!
Cadence, do you make house calls? I REALLY need you to be in the guest room with a headset on while he's here. LOLOL

Quick update- H just postponed for 4th time. He texted and said he has a meeting Monday so it looks like he'll come late Monday or Tuesday. One sentence with no punctuation etc.
I think it's probably best that I don't respond just yet. I'm not mad, just don't have any bright, cheery thing to say.

The good thing is, at least now it won't interfere with my girls weekend.

Originally Posted By: leahsue

Quick update- H just postponed for 4th time. He texted and said he has a meeting Monday

A meeting? OMG A MEETING?? WHAT?? Well, that's very very important.

It's probably a meeting with God...

so it looks like he'll come late Monday or Tuesday. One sentence with no punctuation etc.

how long will this possible visit last, possibly?

I think it's probably best that I don't respond just yet. I'm not mad, just don't have any bright, cheery thing to say.

well, what's to say? I'm sorry Leah, but really, what - is - there - to - say?

Your h is not ready to reconcile, but he perhaps wants to be.

I'm more worried about you piecing, as I think that is far more difficult. Get yourself ready for that If it comes to that AND IF you want to,

but perhaps more importantly, get ready for Not piecing or reconciling - b/c that way you are okay no matter what. Better than okay.

Okay?

The good thing is, at least now it won't interfere with my girls weekend.

Enjoy your girls weekend!!

Quote:

I think it's probably best that I don't respond just yet. I'm not mad, just don't have any bright, cheery thing to say.

Good job!

How about a positive spin on it? "Well, on the bright side, now your visit won't conflict with my girls weekend. See you soon!"

I say that while in full agreement with 25 above. He's not where he needs to be. But, for me, if this is the first time your H has done something like this, that's okay. He's on his path and you're on your path and maybe those paths will join up.

He's not doing what he's doing because of your lack of worth. You are worthy. We all love you and we don't even know you in real life

The best thing for LeahSue, and for her H (should he succeed in his path back) is for LeahSue to be strong, healthy, and focused on making her life great. She's no one's victim, and that attitude is true empowerment. And if H doesn't make his path back, then LeahSue still has a great life. Win/win.

Thanks all for your encouraging words. If only I could see my own situation so clearly, and always live up to what I'm telling LeahSue to do. We're all human beings, and sometimes it's easiest to see the path from entirely outside the situation.

Thanks Cadence and 25, my faithful virtual partners in crime..... (said with a very full heart!)
I'm off to the girl's retreat. In another life, we will find a way to have virtual friends actually meet up and what a string of conversations that would be!
Last night I was reading some posts over on the surviving divorce threads, and came across one that JuJu wrote about her STBXH. I got so caught up in her story and I have sought her out today and asked her to skim over my thread and give me some feedback from her perspective. Not sure if you are familiar with her story, but the way she describes her H's abrupt leaving, can't find signs of OW, distancing, then months later come to discover he has a serious problem with drug addiction..... got me to thinking. I don't know if I ever verbalized this on here, but one of the first things both of my two grown children suggested was possibly that in this wild, exciting, fast paced big city life/job, H got caught up with some fast paced people and began to do what they do- well, you get the picture. NYC, Wall St., heavy drinking crowd, plus the newness of it all going to his head, not to mention the stress of the new position and responsibility..... anyway, we eventually sort of dropped that idea. But now I wonder about hard social drug use...... I hope JuJu can give me some signs maybe to look for when I see him in person. Hard to make a guess since I'm not around him. Anyway, I'd love to know others' thoughts on this.

Bottom line is, really doesn't matter right now- it could matter a great deal later, but first things first, gotta get him to Alabama b4 I can pick him apart. JUST KIDDING!

Everyone have a great weekend!

Sweet LeahSue, I hope you are having an amazing girls weekend and it is helping you remember who you are.

Hi Leah,

Thank you for the nice things you said on my post. I have read you're posts and you seem to be a very sweet woman and I am sorry you are here.

When I read through your posts, I didn't see the similarities between your husband and mine. You're husband seems to temperature check. His responses were different. His interactions are different.

I wish i had hired a private eye in the beginning off my situation. It would have saved me in legal fees to know what was going on. It took me 2 years to find out.

These were my signs that I don't believe are the case with your husband. But you should look for.

We never had money and it didn't make sense. When I asked him about it he deflected, argued evaded. We are both educated professionals but moved in with my parents because I believed we needed to save for a home.

1. He depleted tons of money from his IRA for the last couple of years. If you were filing jointly this would be easy to see.

2. Credit card debt that made no sense. (Hard to find out if your name is not on it. Mine was not) frequent purchases from liquor store was also revealed.

3. Unexplained cash withdrawals. My ex was taking out a minimum of 100$. Per day. But would go to sketchy neighborhoods and withdraw 800 to 1000 1 or 2 times a week. He was leaving work to do this. And basically lying about where he was going to me. (I went through years worth of his bank statements to learn this)

Before he left...

1. Always running on errands that made no sense and came first no matter what.

2. Could not wake up in mornings. Alarms would be blaring for hours. He missed picking up our son from preschool 3x because he slept through alarms and I was at work.

3. Constantly in the bathroom.

4. IBS issues. A fibs in his mid 30s.

5. No empathy for me. I was pregnant and had a surgery to remove cancer. He woke me up early to watch our son at 7 30 am because it was my turn and he needed to sleep.

6. Supposed workaholic but never had a raise. I thought he was consumed with work and never wanted to bother him. (He now lives with his mom and she is under same impression) he acted like work was high pressure and stress and he needed to stay up to finish projects or go back to work cause he forgot sonething.

7. No interest or passion in anything.

8. In hind site, he had developed a friendship with this guy (was really nice) that had no job, same issues with sleeping late and classic druggie type of guy.

When confronted

He didn't deny. He denied an affair. He admitted to an alcohol problem with depression. He agreed to supervised overnights with son. He refused a drug test.

He canceled again.

Leah,

If you were first dating a new suitor and he was treating you the way your ex is now, would you consider him a serious contender? Would you chase and pursue him? Would you hang around and wait for him to change?

From reading your posts, my guess is no. You have a sense of self worth and independence. This is who your husband is right now... a guy that's not treating you very well.

The good news is that you have the choice to keep waiting, and trying to point out to him and rationalize to him that he's not treating you well or to say, "hey, I have no room in my life for someone that is not treatinng me well and through my actions and mindset, not appeals to him I will demonstrate this"

I think in the name of marriage, and commitment we bend over backwards to appease these people who have already divorced us in their minds. Their actions indicate they are divorced. If he truly valued you, he would not be treating you this way. (This does not mean that you do not deserve to be valued, just that he for whatever reasons does not right now)

He already cheated on you right?
He is not seeking forgiveness and ways to make it right. He is not pursuing you. He is being polite and amicable for whatever motivations.

We can psychoanalyze him all we want and explore the whys . (I do this all the time) But the truth is, he is not a partner to you anymore and it's time to detach, mourn, and move forward.

It takes 2 people to work on a marriage. He's no longer vested, or you would know it. So if you can accept that, it will be much easier. Many of us on these boards cannot accept that and we linger in limboland. It's not a nice place to be.

And if he does come around, you need to be in a place where you can truly evaluate why you would want to be with someone even capable of betrayal or abandonment. In a few years, this might not be something you can forgive. But right now its early and a bit of a shock and you are not on equal playing terms. Someone told me this when I first signed on here as Julie "he is not a unicorn"

No, JuJu, you're right. I've thought of this several times. If he and I were just beginning to date, no way would I tolerate for one second this treatment.

Sometimes I forget just how much support I DO have, from all of you, from my sister, from my 5 special girlfriends, and even my new neighbor texted this morning saying, Today's the big day, right? Praying for a great week for you. I texted her back and said he canceled. She showed up 10 minutes later at my front door with her 5 mo. old grandbaby (who she keeps during the day) and just sat and chatted while I soaked up some "baby loving". We have plans to do some day drinking when baby's mama picks her up at 2. So much to be thankful for, that I cannot afford to waste time being sad.

What I haven't told anyone though (well, except you guys) is that since H's email is still copied to me from back when we owned the business together, I got a change in his itinerary email where he's re-scheduled the flight to Monday, June 19th. He hasn't mentioned this to me, just said he had to cancel (b/c of more meetings!). So I wonder if I should just not let on that I know, and have plans to be out of town. I'm not sure that prolonging this visit will prove anything except to stall a face to face meeting. But it might feel good just to have other plans.

At some point, enough is enough.

Seems like you are in a good place about it this time. I would not say a word about it but have some back up plans ready to go.

So now I come on here to just make a post, and here you are Ownit! It really is a small, small world.

So...... today I went to do meals on wheels, and of course, got put right back in my place of thankfulness, if only at least until I get back home.

No, seriously, this sweet little lady FINALLY makes it to the door to accept her meal, and she says, straight out, "I don't feel good today." And I'm thinking, you know what, sista, neither do I... but whatever, of course as the people pleaser, I say, What's wrong, Miss Mattie And she says, "These people are trying to take my house. I'm 89 years old, and I don't bother NOBODY."
So I said, "Miss Mattie, who is trying to take your house?"
And she says, (very dramatically, might I add?) "....that fat man."
So, what is one supposed to do with that?
I'm thinking, you know what????
WE ALL HAVE OUT CRAP TO WORK OUT. SOME OF US JUST NEED TO DIG DEEPER.
SO I AM APOLOGIZING FOR BEING SAD SALLY ON HERE, B/C IT COULD BE SO MUCH WORSE.

OK, stepping down off my soapbox now, to make room for anyone who wants to step up.

JUST SAYIN'- I MIGHT be going to just have a small, stiff, drink and reflect on all I have learned/been reminded of today.

GOD BLESS US ALL.

And you know what, ownit? It's a very good thing that I have back up plans, b/c I've not heard from him about his flight being put off until Monday..... but I DID text him this morning and ask if he has time, can he find some of my stuff and box it up and send, since I need some specific things for a trip next month??? (Like, my $1000 camera, which I would very much like to have with me now?) As usual, NO RESPONSE.
Anyway, TBC.....

Leah,

What was his story in his first marriage? I know you mentioned that you were both in marriages with controlling people.

Just wondering if there's a pattern.

I just cannot believe this guy. Is it fear? I know that mine will make plans with the kids and then at the last minute text do you still want me to come. Once when he had not been here for quite a bit and was coming I told him I wouldn't be here. He said what if they don't let me in. I said call me and tell me and I will tell them to let you in.

Has there ever been a dicussion of you going there instead since his schedule seems so unpredictable?

Do you guys still talk and text regularly?

I am also wondering about his first marriage, and also his relationship with his mother.

And I'm wondering about these things, Leah, because I know our stories have similarities with the controlling clingy ex-wife. (No general shade thrown on first wives; Leah and I both have specific messed-up ex-wives that were trying to still be in the picture. I'm only speaking about these two individuals.) And there is a reason our H's originally chose unstable women. The dysfunction was comforting and familiar.

If your H has untreated issues with his mother, those issues may have resurfaced as part of a MLC/depression and he may not be able to see you as separate from them, because he is likely totally unaware where the discomfort is coming from and why he's feeling that way.

I don't know if the above is true but it's just a hunch that I have.

Leah, I'm sorry for you but I'm also really happy for you in that you're getting some relief. I don't think I could hold it together and have low expectations with the frequent contact you had with your H. So I'm happy for you that this break will allow you to re-center yourself and focus on you again.

When you need things that are in H's apartment, is there someone local to him that you could contact and send over to H's apartment to track down your belongings? A friend? I think it's best for you not to be relying on H for anything right now. A bonus would be that the friend could tell you how H is living and what his demeanor is. Knowing those things might help you, because something tells me he's not truly out constantly living it up in the city.

Originally Posted By: JujuB

Leah,

What was his story in his first marriage? I know you mentioned that you were both in marriages with controlling people.

Just wondering if there's a pattern.

In his first marriage, they dated in high school and married young. His sisters begged him not to marry her. Evidently she was always quite the control freak. They were married 15 years. They separated 3 or 4 times during those years, but he always went back b/c he couldn't stand living away from their children, who were very young, like 2 and 5 the first time they split up. She is a screamer, and didn't mind shaming him in public, mainly about little, trivial things. She's very hot- tempered and seems to have little self control when she flies off the handle. (My personal opinion, after hearing his sisters discuss it over the years, and just my own observations during my marriage to him, is that she seems to be a very unhappy person, no matter what her circumstances are, and she seems to feel better about her self when she can bring down the ones around her.)

Originally Posted By: OwnIt

At one point in May, I mentioned coming there, and he said I think out best chance at getting back to "us" is for me to come there, mainly just due to the changes I've made to the apartment (he had sent me some photos of some things he had switched around that kind of hurt my feelings, like he had no intention of me ever coming back, and had kind of turned it into a man cave, so he knew that might come up again, and he was probably right) and also there's a young man (our son's best friend) who is staying with him right now until he can afford his own place, so privacy would have been a factor.
And no, since he canceled the last time and I lost my $hit and told him how I felt, the talking/texting has stopped.

Originally Posted By: cadence

I am also wondering about his first marriage, and also his relationship with his mother.

Leah, I'm sorry for you but I'm also really happy for you in that you're getting some relief. I don't think I could hold it together and have low expectations with the frequent contact you had with your H. So I'm happy for you that this break will allow you to re-center yourself and focus on you again.

When you need things that are in H's apartment, is there someone local to him that you could contact and send over to H's apartment to track down your belongings? A friend? I think it's best for you not to be relying on H for anything right now. A bonus would be that the friend could tell you how H is living and what his demeanor is. Knowing those things might help you, because something tells me he's not truly out constantly living it up in the city.

Yes, I could ask the young man staying with him, and I also have a couple of girl friends there who would be glad to go over and find some things of mine, but it didn't seem right to ask them until I'd asked him first. Looks like I will need to do that now.

His mother...... they are a close knit family, but there were some really hard times when he was growing up. His mother and father divorced, and I get the feeling his mother sort of abandoned the 5 kids when she fell in love with her current husband. My H went to live with his father and step mother and I know there was some abuse, but he won't talk about any details. What I know, I've learned mostly from his sisters. He had an incredible work ethic from a very young age, worked in the school cafeteria in high school, etc. and basically raised himself. Which is one reason he married so young, just to get out of a bad home life. Now, he and his mother seem fine, and he was seemingly devoted to both her, and to his siblings, but according to one sister that I am very close to, he's cut most communication with all of them too, since January. The sister that he was closest to in age, passed away in November of 2015 after a 10 year battle with cancer. He had only been in the new job up north for a few months, but he took a month off and came south, and stayed pretty much at her bedside that last month, feeding her, etc, and rarely left her side. I think there may be some unresolved issues or maybe un-dealt with grief from that also.
And yes Cadence, I think you may be right about my keeping up with all that push and pull. It was very hard to know at any given moment which way the wind was blowing. At least now, I'm back to kind of knowing that things aren't going well.

If I don't hear back from him about my things over the weekend, I think I'm going to text him and say something like- Would you be OK with my asking (friend) to come over to apartment and find some of my things and maybe box them up to ship to me? (I'd love some feedback about how to handle/word this.)

I don't want to make things worse, and he may be still planning to visit at some point and thinks he'll just bring them then (which has been the plan in the past). That doesn't excuse his just not responding at all. How hard would it be for him to just take 15 seconds and text that back to me? But I realize he's not the man I used to be married to. That man would have walked the 1000 miles to bring me anything I needed. So sad (and weird) how people just disappear inside themselves almost overnight.
Like his sister said to me yesterday, I just don't have any words for this. None of it makes any sense.

A little update.....
I texted H and said, "Do you want me to see if C (son's friend) will help me get some stuff together?"
He just texted back- "I'm in a meeting now but of course I will help you with that. I will call later."
He's like Jekyll and Hyde.
The good-
He texted back.
He will help me get the things I need.
The bad-
If he's going to ship me some things, that probably means he's not coming here.
But maybe that's a good, with me kind of in a not so good frame of mind about us right now.

I think I'm going to a movie- Rough Night- that came out today. The previews are funny. I hope the movie is too. I love to laugh hard!

I need advice.
The only update is that after he texted and said he'd help, he did call Friday afternoon on his way home from work. We talked a little about family things (extended family of both) just catching up on everyone's latest news. Very friendly conversation. He said, If you don't mind my asking, where are you going on your trip in July? I told him to WA to help D get settled in their new home/job. He was all excited for D and wanted to know all the news about new job, etc. He asked when is my trip, I told him July 17. He said, well I'm SURE I will be able to visit you before then, but I don't mind going ahead and shipping the things you need for your trip. I said, yes please, just go ahead and ship. (B/C in my head I am thinking, I will not ever depend on your visits to be reliable, since you've now postponed 4 times.) I did not ask when he has rescheduled visit for. (More on that in a sec.)

He asked for a list of things I need him to ship, and I suggested that when he is at the apt. and has a bit of free time, that he call me and we can kind of "go through my closet" while on the phone and I can tell him. (It's hard to even remember what summer clothes I have there, since I haven't been there since December, and they were all packed up at the time.....) He said that sounds great, that he would call Saturday morning and we could do that.

Saturday morning I got last minute invite to attend a day long music festival downtown, so I texted him and told him that, and gave him about 10 items that he could pack up and send, or if he'd rather wait until we could do it on the phone, that was fine. I wished him a happy FD, and said, You are a great daddy, and I hope you have the best FD ever.

While I was at the festival, my phone battery died, so when I got in about 10 pm and plugged it, I saw he had called about 6. Since it was 11 his time, I just texted and said I saw you called, sorry I missed it, hope you're having a good w'end with the kids. (He was staying overnight at SS and wife's for FD and grilling out.)

I did not hear from him yesterday, nor did I try to call or text him. I don't know if he got my things to ship, or is going to wait until we can go over it on the phone. Last night I got a copied email in my email showing his change in itinerary from flight moved from today, to July 10-17. Remember, he doesn't know I get these copied emails.

So here's where I need advice.
My birthday is a week from today, June 26. Then the next week begins 4th of July holiday, where he will get several days off. So he's skipped over both of those things, to book his trip for July 10, which is on a Monday, knowing I leave for WA the following Monday, the same day he's booked his return flight to NY. (All this without mentioning any of these plans to me.)
I texted him this morning and said, Are you planning to come for my birthday? Or maybe 4th of July?

First of all, he may not respond. Which would be the norm. But if he does, and says no, he is not coming until July 10, my heart tells me to end this back and forth joke about a visit. I am SO TIRED of planning, waiting, then he postpones, doing it all again, since EASTER WEEKEND!! I've spent the last 2 months doing that, and now another 3 weeks, and there's a high probability he will postpone again on July 10. Right now, my WA trip is set for July 17-25. He turns 50 on July 25. A big birthday.

I feel like I will lose my mind if this back and forth keeps up. In my heart, I know that if he wanted to see me, he would make it happen. No meetings, deadlines, any other work thing should be preventing us from seeing each other. I know he prefers to come here. But if he wanted to see me, he could say, since I can't get away from work right now, why don't you come here for the weekend? He's told his sister, I miss L. I love L. I'm just afraid I've paid too high a sacrifice for this job.

I'm sorry, as much as I want to believe what he tells her, this is not what LOVING AND MISSING LEAH look like. His actions do not match his words. And his words aren't even said to me, but to his sister, who he very much wants to please, and not have her yell and scream, b/c he knows she wants us together.

I believe the best thing to help me further detach, is for me not to be counting on a visit. I've said both to myself, and to my concerned loved ones, I'm not giving up on us until I at least see him face to face. I think I will know so much more when that happens.

But I don't know if I can keep waiting on that to happen. It's hard to move on and completely detach for me, when I feel like there could still be a chance for us.

Please tell me if I'm being blind, or too impatient. This forum, my IC, and his one sister, are the only ones left who seem to think I need to keep giving him more time to get his courage up to visit, if that's even what he's waiting on. For all I know, he could have a complete OW going full strong, because there is no way for me or his family here to know, even whether he is still wearing his wedding ring. I could hire a PI, but to what end?

Please weigh in. I am in a distraught frame of mind today. I know patience is required. I don't want to mind read. I don't want to give up too soon. But seriously, how am I to detach, when he keeps stringing me along with these planned visits? What I want to do, if he does not change his plans to be here before July 10, is to say, I don't want us to visit, for now. Maybe in the fall, let's see where we are then. (I did say that to him at postponement #2, and he ignored it, and kept his plans to come.) So I can say that all day long, and he may ignore it and hope I'll change my mind by the time his next visit date rolls around, which is exactly what I did. If I say that again, I have to mean it. And just go out of town while he's in AL. Which might put the nail in the coffin. But at this point, at least it's a PLAN. And I can see myself moving more toward detachment, without this constant tug of war on my heart.
I don't mean to sound so negative. I know most of the people on this forum would kill to have WAS planning a visit, even if it just kept getting postponed..... but it's not as easy as it looks to be standing here waiting. It's feeling more and more like he just can't end this marriage, but doesn't want to work on it either.

I feel like I'm losing it.

Leah, this is a very frustrating situation, but it doesn't seem to me like you are ready to give up on the MR. I think you need to stop saying things aimed to push him away (like putting it off until the fall). I think he is fearful and tentative and these statements have a greater impact on him than they would on most. You said yourself you need to look in his face. I think you need to detach from the idea that he will come at any particular time, lose any expectation that he will follow through, and just accept that you will never know when until he is standing in front of your face.

You were really GALing in the beginning before he started his talk about when he was coming. How can you get back to it? How would you feel if instead of saying I'm coming in two weeks, he was saying I will file in two weeks. That is what lots of us get. Although this is frustrating, it still suggests that he is trying to find his way back to you.

Originally Posted By: OwnIt

How would you feel if instead of saying I'm coming in two weeks, he was saying I will file in two weeks. That is what lots of us get.

Thanks, Ownit. This really hit home. I know I should just be thankful he even claims to want to see me. I don't know if it's true or not. His actions don't say so. But at least I have that.

Hi Leah,

I am going to weigh in here, but only because you are asking. Please take what I say with a giant grain of salt because I don't know you and I don't know your H. You also may not like it. I say this simply based on what I have read (your words), what I have seen in other posters sitches, and mostly (the least credible to you) which are my instincts.

All that being said, I don't think you have to be thankful. Even though your H may appear to be putting in more efforts than what the other LBSs share, does not mean you have any less pain. Your H is keeping you in limbo and gaslighting you and I think it's awful. And cowardly! It is cruel to give a person mixed messages and string them along, and it appears to me he is selfishly keeping you on the backburner as plan B. That is no way to treat someone you are married too.

Just because he says he is planning a visit and gives you occasional bread crumbs of hope, his actions show otherwise. He has not planned a visit and followed through. Period. He is also not getting back to you, showing you any real commitment, and he has no respect for your schedule (or feelings). I think you are correct when you say that if he wanted to see you, he would. I am sorry if I sound harsh, but I agree with those thoughts.

You have also said more than once that while you have no evidence of any A, you suspect there could be someone else. Perhaps he uses work as his excuse for his poor communication? What do your instincts tell you? I tend to think if a woman even suspects there is an A, then there is an A. That's it.

The fact is he has had many opportunities to visit, even if for a short while. He often doesn't return your messages and you feel he is blowing you off. Your instincts tell you he could hurt you further and he may not follow through on a visit. You also have wondered if there is OW. This does not sound like you are in a place any better than the other posters. It sounds like he is far enough away to keep things hidden and/or string you along.

I am sorry for the 2*4. I am not suggesting you change your plan of action. It would be easy for me to tell you to have no expectations, but that is really hard. It is especially hard when he keeps throwing you crumbs!

My advise to you would be to take some control in this sitch and get your power back. Take a giant step back and do not initiate contact. You think about what your summer looks like and if you even want him to visit at all. You keep holding your head up and taking care of you. You are going to be fine. You do not have to wait for him or be his back up plan. You got this girl! I know you do--you are positive, fun, and spunky. He needs to work hard to get you back, as far as I see it from over here, not the other away around!!!

Blu

Then detach. I would start acting as if I am moving on and have someone go over and pack your stuff. For someone to miss you they have to actually...miss you. Instead of being so transparent (telling him where you were going for your trip) be mysterious and vague. He needs to know that you aren't just saying the words but are really moving forward. He would be a fool not to chase you. Think back to when you first met, would you pine away for a guy who stood you up 4 times? No? Then why do that now. Make your plans and he can be the one altering them. Instead of you scheduling around his "visit" you can do your GAL and he will have to be the one diving in to find you.

Thank you Blu and Sara! I told H in a phone call this morning that I will not keep doing this tug of war about if he's going to visit, postpone, etc. I said it is time for us to sit down and talk about where we are, what direction we plan to move in, and if we are over, we need to tie this up neatly and both get on with our lives. I told him I would not fight him if what he wants is a divorce. I said I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me, so I would have no reason to try and stop you, if that's what you want. I said you need to just man up and take a stand, and stop dragging this out about we need to visit, spend time together, etc., if you have no intention of doing it. I was calm, but I guess he knew I was serious, because he said, "We do need to sit down and talk. I will fly down next week." (That should make for a real happy birthday, right?)
I don't know if he will come, but I really am not going to keep putting off my life, waiting on him to visit or not visit. Enough is enough. I saw my IC this morning, and she even admitted that she would have thrown in the towel before now, and I was surprised she would admit that, since she introduced me to DB and has always been very pro-marriage. I think she sees that I cannot continue like this.

Leah,

I am glad you felt strong and confident in your position. See how you can flip the dynamic when you are strong? I guess it would make sense to say "hope for the best, but plan for the worst." I tend not to feel that way. I would say "assume the worst, plan for the worst, but know there is so much hope without this M in general." I also don't agree that when you guys see each other things will become more clear. Sadly, I think it's clear now. He is checked out and there very well may be another person (even tho he may deny it). I want you to try and think about what you really need and want in a life partner and if he has been that person in the last 6 months. All emotions aside, what is your bottom line?

I say all of this because in your heart/gut you know and have known that he is gone and just stringing you along. If he wanted this M to work, he would have already visited and he would be getting back to you on his own. Now that you are drawing a firm line and giving an ultimatum, he is moving. I still can't see how he is actually moving towards you. He doesn't seem to be showing care for your feelings, true remorse for what he has put you through, and any real commitment to making the M work.

He has been wishywashy and may continue to be that way. I am just concenred that you may have your hopes up and expectations, and that he then may come along and be the same as he has shown you the last 6 months. So if we are preparing you for the worst, let's assume he is coming to do the "honorable thing" and end the M in person. How will you respond if that happens? I would hate for him to catch you off gaurd, you react out of emotions, and then later regret that you were not prepared.

Even if he does the worst case scenario, it is never the final ending. People and feelings change all the time. Why not shock his system with your best DB techniques, GALs, 180s, and detachment? Even if you need to fake it a bit. How good would you feel to hold your head up high, listen, validiate, and simply agree to go your own ways. "I am sorry you feel that way. This is not the marriage that I signed up for either. Kindly send the rest of my belongings when you get home." Something that shows him you will be just fine without him. That will have him second guessing himself!

I hope I am not out of line. In my sitch, one of my dear friends always told me, "he's gone, it's over, he's never coming back." It hurt like H3LL! And she was the only one that said that to me. Looking back on it tho, it was very helpful in that it forced me to think about letting go and moving on. And while this wasn't her motive, ultimately it was my letting him go that brought him back.

Leah, this is a long, long road. People change and change their minds. You are and will be just fine right now without him. So keep living for you no matter if he comes and what he says/does. He may just show up and keep being wishywashy to keep stringing you along. If that is not the M you want, you can tell him to step aside and show him your life is going on. You get to teach people how to treat you. ... You got this. We are here for you!

Blu

Blu,
That was a hard post to read. And since we're being transparent, I'll admit the first time through I was saying to myself, ..... but this is not US. Blu doesn't KNOW H. By the end of the post, I realized how ridiculous that was. Of course you don't know us, but you know signs and patterns, just like it's so easy for me to read into other posters stories and see things repeated over and over.

I truly appreciate your candidness, painful though it was. And I think I agree with you about preparing myself for the worst. I'd much rather be prepared on that end, than have expectations for a good visit, and it be a visit where he ends it. I'm not sure how I can begin to prepare for that mindset. Any suggestions from you (or any other vets!) would be so welcome.

I feel a bit sick just thinking about it. But painful as it may be, I can't continue like this, so I'd just as soon face the music and begin to heal, either way.

If anyone is going to offer suggestions for my prep, I do really well with specifics that I can relate word pictures to in my head. I'm for sure going to use the one where all my friends on this board are peeking in the windows, all lined up in a row, whispering for me to STFU! That makes me laugh just thinking about it.

Hi Leah,

I'm so pleased to see your latest post. You drew a boundary.

I meant to respond to your previous messages but didn't get a chance. I was going to point out the similar pattern I saw setting up again: you disappear from the board for a few days, and come back after having passive-aggressively lashed out at H from the stance of a victim. I was going to tell you that something happens to you in those days. You either talk to someone who encourages you to think yourself a victim, or your brain takes you to that place. Whatever it is, it isn't helpful for you and your goals for yourself.

I also saw you leave your own life on the backburner and step back into actively planning his trip. Whereas I'd urged you to be so busy cheerfully GAL and enjoying your days that his trip was simply another thing that was happening, and not central to your life.

And now I said them.

Yes, the window thing is great. You can picture that again because that is what we'd be doing. Also, I'd be adding in "you're no one's victim, Leahsue. H doesn't determine your worth. Don't go hurt and negative because that's not you!"

H's visit is going to be one of the biggest challenges of your life, Leah. I really want you to review what I showed you about your patterns and do your darndest not to let your patterns take hold. You are strong and straightforward. You do not speak in riddles, you do not expect H to be a mindreader about what you "really want." You accept that you made choices that got you where you are today (but of course, you couldn't have predicted the curveballs from H); no one did this to you.

Moreover, you remember the stuff about how women need caring but men need appreciation. You will do nothing that looks like pursuing him, in words or actions. You will be welcoming and friendly, but strong. You will validate what H says even if you disagree with it. If you disagree, your validation will be something like "I see that differently, but I acknowledge and accept how you see it."

Even if H starts off negative, DB your sweet behind off, Leahsue. He may need to see the validating version of you to second-guess himself. All of this will be easier if he says he wants to R, but even if he says the opposite, all is not lost. Remember DR. Re-read it. If he goes negative, your challenge is going to be whether you choose to take his words personally. He may want to pursue D if he's depressed, frightened, or has lost confidence in himself.

It's going to be okay and show emotion, Leah, but your H is a Nervous Nelly right now. He can't handle anything that resembles pressure, so even if you get emotional, remain strong and do not allow yourself to think of yourself as a victim, because then you're going to be tempted to lash out. Recognize that he's scared, too. He has shame and he doesn't know why he did what he did. He might be in simple-surface-level land where my H lives, where he crafts reality to fit his emotions. "If I did that, I must be unhappy with my life" versus "If I did that, I'm struggling with something and it might be inside me."

Does that help? I guess I'm going to be at that window saying a lot more than "STFU" because I know this is going to be so challenging for you. I recognize that and I feel for you. It's scary. I'm trying to prep you knowing your personal triggers and traps (we all have them!) to best set you up for what you want.

Your anxiety is going to be your challenge. I have gone to my doctor and I have a prescription for Lorazepam. It's this little pill that I can take when I'm struggling with my anxiety and it just tones everything down a bit. It lasts for 14 hours. And if I were in your shoes, I'd be taking one during H's visit, because that's a stressful situation. Maybe you could visit your doctor and see if you can get something similar? It's a controlled substance that you are only supposed to use occasionally (it is not meant to be taken daily), so they're not going to hand it out like candy. But perhaps it's worth a shot.

Hugs! You're going to do great. You're going to grow leaps and bounds, no matter what. (I can't believe I just said that to you, though, because my standard response when people say that to me is "I have enough character, thank you very much. I'm ready for happiness!")

Have you read others' stories, Leah? Recovery from an A is possible. Recovery from an MLC is possible. The common thing you'll see amongst the LBW who got the WH back is recovery of self-esteem, self-worth, and rock solid emotional strength. They are at a point where they have consistently treated themselves kindly and detached. If you find yourself getting anxious, it might be good to read through the threads of LBW who have survived it: BluWave above, Train, and Raine are a few off the top of my head. Narrow their posts to "topics created" and start at the beginning and read their journeys. It's really enlightening. They did not get to where they are without pain, facing fears, letting go, and the growth that comes with those things.

If you can't find someone's threads, the search function above works pretty good. You can also go to google and type in the username you're looking for and then a space and the following (without the quotes) "site:divorcebusting.com" That will tell google you want to find the user on this site.

Another idea is a DB coach. I had a session a few weeks ago when I didn't know where to turn. 50 minutes of a conversation specific to my situation and some tailored advice? Yes please. It's perhaps something that you'd like to invest in for yourself so you can be best prepared for the near future.

(P.S. What is it with heartbreak and birthdays? I recently faced a milestone one of my own. I was upset that I was on my own for it.)

I had such a good weekend surrounded by my kids and their spouses, then a great lunch today with my special 5 Yaya girlfriends, came home and had a gazillions posts from loved ones on FB, (I'm not a big FB fan except on birthdays!).
While I was at lunch I got a call from a florist saying they had delivered something but since I wasn't home, left it on my front porch. I DID NOT get my hopes up or have any expectations thanks to you guys. But when I drove up and saw it I knew it was from H. He knows how I feel about white roses, and there were 2 dozen, with a balloon and a box of chocolates. The card said, "Leah, I'm so sorry I can't be there. Love, H." I missed a call from him a few minutes ago, then he texted and said Happy birthday. I sent out 2 packages today with the stuff you needed.
I texted back and said OK. Thank you for the flowers.
I had truly decided over the weekend that I'm not going to invest any more emotion in this R. And when I saw the flowers, I honestly didn't feel anything at all. I'm not sure if that's good or bad. But whatever it is, I'm in a very good place today, and SO blessed to have such a wonderful support system during this chapter of my life, (and you guys go right there at the top of my gratitude list!)

I started to feel kind of bad about not showing more appreciation for the florist delivery today, then my S34 called and I told him that- He said MOM, HE SHOULD BE THANKFUL TO GET A THANK YOU AT ALL!

So funny how everyone has a different view of things. That's why I think it's good to not be afraid to share your real feelings with those you love and trust- otherwise, you don't get real honest feedback.

Happy birthday, Leah! I appreciate you so much. You're just a ray of sunshine - even when you're not

That's great about the flowers. It must have been a nice, or bittersweet, moment.

I am happy that you're not feeling much about them, because that's good for you at this stage. It would be easy for you to feel all squishy about getting them, and then start developing expectations.

You're sounding much more even and calm these days, Leah. I like it. I bet you like it, too!

PLEASE my friends on here, help me with these new emotions.

IDK if it was b/c of my birthday........ but beginning last night, and stronger this morning, I truly do not think I care what he does or doesn't do. Is that a bad or scary thing for me?

I JUST DON'T CARE. I know I can make a good life in front of me, that does not include him.

Since I didn't respond to his call or flower stuff yesterday, except to say "thank you", he will not contact me for a few days, or weeks. But what's scary to me, is that I DON'T CARE.

I want to love somebody, as a life companion, and have someone to enjoy what should be the best days of our lives..... but I'm suddenly wondering if it even needs to be HIM. I don't want to have to beg someone. And clearly he has other priorities right now.

I really think I may be free, from myself.

You've detached, Leah!

You've reached the point where you're not basing your emotional well being on what he is or isn't doing. And you know you're going to be okay no matter what happens.

Leah,

Congrats, I believe that you have finally detached.

Leah,

Glad you updated. Happy belated bday! Lady friends are the best! Nothing more therapeutic than time with girlfriends, I say. Another silver lining in my messy sitch was that I learned who my real friends were (and also who wasn't). When chit hits the fan and you need to cry about the same thing 100 days in a row, true friends are there and keep you afloat. It will never be forgotten.

I think it was nice of him to send the flowers. A simple thank you is more than enough. I don't know what it means either, but I don't see a useful reason to speculate. I think you are starting to detach because you were able to not speculate and over analyze. It's perfectly okay to accept what's in front of you and not attribute too much meaning to it. That's healthy and good.

In terms of your new feelings, I can remember having those first moments. My goodness what a relief! The first glass of cold water on that hot, hot thirsty day! I would agree that it is a sign of detachment. Welcome it. Embrace it. Also know that if it wanders off for a bit, that is okay too. Nothing is smooth or linear in this process. That's why we call it a roller coaster.

I tend to think those initial feelings of detachment can feel so strong because 1. they are new and the relief is so great, 2. after so much heartache, you naturally build a wall and become numb. Thats fine too; your heart needs protecting. We can look at war refugees and think, "my gawd, how did they survive and are still going on?" People (all of us) are more resilient than we can ever know.

If you believe you can continue to detach, you will. If you doubt yourself or feel sad again, that is okay too.

You will be great because you ARE great already!

Blu

Hey everyone, happy 4th!
I'm really feeling very proud of myself this week.

Since the birthday, flowers, my just saying "thank you", but not gushing on and on.... he has been silent. But I HAVE BEEN FINE WITH THAT.

That's the amazing part. In fact, I have stayed busy all week, even have some job opportunities lined up for later in July. Today I was out getting some things for the house, and really enjoyed it. He did try to call while I was out, but I waited a couple of hours and then texted- I can't answer phone right now but I will return your call later today or maybe tomorrow. Of course, he didn't respond, but I don't think I am going to return the call. The way I'm thinking is, I did not ignore his call, but I just forgot to call back, or was too busy GALing 4th of July parties, and whoops, just didn't get around to calling.

Today I bought curtains for my living room, which I had hesitated about b/c they already had these beautiful plantation shutters when I bought the house... but I've been having trouble with the echo in the room- cathedral ceilings and hardwood floors, so very hard to hear the TV, etc. So I bought some, hung them myself, and I can't stop looking at them! Plus now I can hear the TV so much clearer! Oh the joy of the simple things in life.

Oh, and this week I also went to sod farm, bought sod, brought it home, and laid it in my little magical garden in the back yard. I'm treating it like a baby, but honestly, I have to stop myself from just sitting out there watching everything grow and bloom. It's amazing.

Tomorrow I'm headed to hometown place to spend rest of holiday with sister and BIL, skiing and tubing on the alligator infested Alabama River. If any of you know the BLT song "Pontoon", well that's us the next few days, although the weather does not want to cooperate. I'm looking forward to fun, and living, and I think that's what my healthiest option is, at this point.

Be well, my friends. Just wanted to post so Y'ALL don't forget me.

And that, my friend, is detaching! I am so proud of you, I wish I as there to smother you in a hug. The GAL really is the trick to properly detaching. When we stop hinging everything on our WAS's behavior/texts/words then we can heal. You are important, you matter, and your WAH is a fool not to see your worth. I found when I put the focus on my friends and family and stopped hinging everything on whether or not WH was going to be there then I detached.

It's a good thing I detached as much as I have...... he is having an affair.

The same man who couldn't pull himself away from work for even a weekend to come to see me, has just spent the last 6 days in the Dominican Republic, presumably with the woman he texts literally day and night since about the end of March. (And yes, I broke into his phone records when I found out where he was, b/c sometimes you just need to know.)

I'm seeing an attorney Monday to file for divorce.

I'm so sorry Leah. I admire your strength and conviction.

Leah sue,

Hugs and hoping you are surrounded with love.

You are an awesome person.

Gordie

Thank you Gordie and Ownit,

I'm with both of my grown kids, and they are amazing.

I just can't believe I wasn't the "one in a million" whose situation wasn't about him choosing someone else.

I just feel so very sad and disappointed.

But tomorrow is a new day. And I WILL SURVIVE!

Much strength Leah!

It seems you detached which helps lessen the blow. In my situation I found out about OM when I was in full on non-detachment mode. And I am still not detached. So it keeps hurting.

Originally Posted By: Tobias

Much strength Leah!

It seems you detached which helps lessen the blow.

A huge essential lesson here is that detachment does not just happen. It takes effort and renewal (and is not linear. Backslides happen).

As Leah has shown in just the past 10 days, she is GAL and triggering the detachment. (You go girl!) I do not know a way to detach without GAL and that requires getting out of our ruts, overcoming inertia and pushing our comfort zones big time.

But I've never seen GAL being unhelpful or felt any regret. I've always been glad to get the heck out and push myself.

It is hard and the pain lingers and sometimes slaps me out of nowhere.

But I get back up faster and for longer. And I can see that in time, I will have more happiness now than I would have, if I had stayed in limbo.

Knowing that about my future, helps me today.

Originally Posted By: leahsue

Thank you Gordie and Ownit,

I'm with both of my grown kids, and they are amazing.

these ^^are the blessings to hold onto and remember. ((( )))

I just can't believe I wasn't the "one in a million" whose situation wasn't about him choosing someone else.

Don't be hard on yourself for choosing to believe what your h told you. Besides, you were loyal to him; is it really crazy or stupid to assume he'd be the same?

I just feel so very sad and disappointed.

Yes you do. And my heart is breaking for you.

But tomorrow is a new day. And I WILL SURVIVE!

Oh Yes I know you will. Please Get information from the L, and go from there. NO NEED to blurt out or confront until you know your financial ducks are in a row.

I don't want to panic you or make you feel worse than you already do. But your h has had a head start in this.

As long as he thinks you don't know, you may be able to take some protective actions and waiting a few days to do so, will not be a setback.

Time to go into self preservation mode. Understanding all this and wrapping your brain around it and all the rest

comes after you protect yourself. Make sense?

I'm so sorry to hear this, Leah.

You are an amazing and very loved woman. I'm sorry your H is too blind to see what he's losing. I do feel in my heart that he will see that some day.

Surround yourself with loved ones, and hear their words of praise about you and let the love in their hearts fill your heart up, because yours has sprung a leak. They will be your strength to carry you through. (We will, too, of course.)

This flawed man doesn't define your worth. He's searching for something and I don't think he can find it in a person. But he's going to try, apparently, all while hoping to keep you on the line as he takes risks to build up his ego.

You are no one's safety option, and I am glad that you see that. I'm sorry that your H doesn't see it right now, but he's not looking through clear lenses.

Lay down those boundaries about how you will allow yourself to be treated. Don't show him your cards or tell him what you know.

I've gotten the names of several local lawyers from my neighbor, who is becoming such a good, loyal friend. (She is a retired local attorney.) So tomorrow I will begin calling these recs to make an appointment.

HOW in the WORLD do average people afford to get divorced??? Do lawyers allow payment plans? For crying out loud, I wouldn't imagine most people have 5-10K just lying around in a savings account to pull out and spend on a divorce. Especially if it's not one you've been planning from your side of the street. Luckily, my mom said she will help me financially with however much this is going to cost, but that piece is very frightening to me.

My daughter leaves for her cross country move on Tuesday. That is not helping with my emotional state right now, although I'm so happy for her, and she and her H are over the top excited. I will fly out next Monday for a week to help them get settled, so I'm looking forward to that distraction.

I know life will go on for me, and I will begin to be interested in living that life in a full way as a single woman, but the prospect of starting a personal life over at my age seems very daunting today. I'm trying not to focus on the deep sadness right now, but it's a struggle. I had some very dark thoughts today that were a little frightening to me. My IC is on vacation, of all times, but my next appointment is early August. She and I will have quite a bit of catching up to do, since my last appointment I was planning his visit, my birthday, and he was calling and texting every day.

(And for anyone who is about to say, get out and GAL, you know that I know that is what I need to do- and I will. I'm just being very honest about how I feel at 2:45 in the morning, feeling more alone than I have in a very long time.) I know this is not a site designed as a pity party, but if I can't be honest here, then I don't think I will be honest anywhere. This, too, will pass. But oh my, the white hot pain takes my breath away. I'm trying to just feel it, rather than feel my way around it. I know there's no bypass.

OK friends, time to turn over a new leaf!

After reading this forum and over on Chunky Lady all night long, I got up today feeling extremely empowered. I pray it lasts!

Went out at 6AM, mowed and weed eat my whole lawn, swam a few laps in the pool, came inside and started making phone calls. I've contacted an attorney who should be calling me back later today to set up an appointment. Also talked with an old friend from hometown who now works in state government here in the capital, and she has already set me up with two job interviews for later this week for part time work downtown right in the middle of all the government action. What better place to dress professionally, work part time, go "out to lunch", meet people, and just generally GAL?

I can't even remember if I was married or not..... oh wait, yes I was, to someone who tossed me aside. But I'm only seeing that briefly in my rear view mirror as I speed toward my new life.

Leah,

I'm happy to see you feeling so strong today. One thing I think you should do though is really try to connect with what you want with respect to H. You should definitely talk to the L and get your options and have an idea what that looks like. I think you should also think through what is really different today than it has been in the last six months.

If I recall correctly he had at minimum owned up to a previous one night stand so you knew that he was committing adultery. I think you have known for some time that he has been using his job as an excuse to avoid seeing and talking to you.

Does the knowledge that he is continuing the same behaviors change anything for you? Can you forgive one woman, but not two? Can you forgive a ONS but not a PA with an EA component? Do you think he is MLC? Does that change anything for you?

I'm not trying to tell you how to feel or what you should do. I know that in the past though you cycle pretty quickly between hope and despair, between strength and weakness, and between over and still trying.

I just would like to see you slow down a bit on the exit to the marriage and not make any rash decisions. Information gathering is a great thing and processing is necessary, but sometimes action needs to wait a bit.

I think you are really the GAL Queen when you set yourself to it.

Yes, all good points, Ownit.
I was crushed about the ONS, and he appeared to be also. I think that would have been very forgivable for me, with the right amount of desire on both parts and MC. I was even OK with his needing more time and space, and I think we were on to something around March, working our way back together.

But something happened around that time. He began to postpone his trips, call less frequently, just less contact in general, and I did blow up a few times on the phone in frustration with him, which seemed to cool things down considerably.

I think I've known in my heart that he doesn't have any desire to work on our marriage. Even with the work pressure, he could have made it happen if it was his desire. But even with that, I have been giving him the benefit of the doubt.

This new revelation of a resort vacation for 6 days? And the phone records that show the two of them texting all during the day and way into the night, her texting a wake up call every morning..... and the records don't go back past March, but it appears to have dramatically escalated about the time things started to cool off for us. To me, this is so much more than a drunken ONS. I won't live like this.

H is a very tender-hearted man, or at least the man he was...... and I truly believe he knows it's over too, but he doesn't want to hurt me. However, the abandonment has hurt far worse than just a clean break.

I still love him very much, and as crushed as I am to lose him, if I'm honest, he's been gone for months. This is me, finally having enough of the excuses, to take back control of my own life. I need legal security, because if this goes ugly, I will have some real money issues.

By filing, I am not saying I wouldn't ever want a new relationship with him, because how could I possibly know right now? But what I do have to do is protect myself financially, and the only way I know to do that is to file. I don't know that he ever would, because what would change for him? Unless he wants to marry again.

I'm going to the lawyer this afternoon at 2:30 with an open mind as to how I can best protect myself and this house, and if that means filing for a divorce, I'm prepared to do that. I need to be in control of me, and stop planning my life and plans around the hope that he may truly want us back. If he does, then he still will, later down the road, or he won't, but I am doing this for self-preservation.

Yes, I agree, I do go hot and cold OFTEN, from despair to hope, etc. You nailed that! But this is not action that I am taking based on emotion. It's proactive rather than the way I've lived the last 6 months, which has been reactive.

This may or may not be MLC. I'm not that hung up on labels, because in the end, I'm not sure it really makes that much difference. For whatever reason, he's cheating, in another relationship, and doing nothing towards wanting to get "us" back. I'm a very forgiving, loving person, and this hurts, but I think it's time to look out for Leah.

Thank you for your honest response! It has made me stop and think a little more, but I believe I'm doing the right thing.

Make sure to ask you L about options involving legal separation. In many states you separate all the assets and leave the divorce for later. Then when one of the parties files, the legal separation becomes the terms of the divorce so usually all that is involved is waiting out the mandatory waiting period. Now if you filed for that, he could just turn around and file for divorce, but he could do that any time. Going with a legal separation may protect your financial interests at a time when he is likely feeling guilty and being more generous, but leave open the divorce until you really detach and have time to parse what you want and he has a chance to play out his greener grass theory.

Also, talk to your L about his income. Sounds like perhaps he had a huge jump in his income less than a year ago. If that is the case and depending on length of marriage, etc., it may be beneficial to wait a bit so he has more time at that income before pulling the trigger in case that has an impact on your ability to get alimony (does your state have it, how long a marriage to trigger, does the recent separation affect it).

Do you get health insurance through him? If so that could be another benefit of LS v. D as you likely could keep it through a LS (check the plan) but not through a D.

Lots of stuff to think about here but try to separate the business part of this from the emotional for now. My thoughts are with you.

So it's done. I went yesterday and met with attorney. We hammered out my proposal of a settlement agreement, which he is preparing now and will have ready for me to look over again, then it will be delivered for H's signature or counter.

H is aware that I have taken this step, and so far has not responded, which is not unusual. My hope and prayer is that he just wants this to go away quietly, and that we don't end up in court.

I've shared with my close people the way I presented to him what I had done. I have gotten some criticism (although given very kindly) that I probably was far too nice in my delivery. My response was, and still is, this may very well be the last communication H hears from me, and how do I want to be remembered? In a kind, dignified, graceful way. I'm the one who has to live with my own behavior and actions, so I choose to do it in a way I can live with and feel proud of.

No regrets. Are there things I could have done differently? Absolutely.

Did I give this marriage every chance in my power to survive?
Absolutely.

And at the end of the day, that's all any of us can do. What we believe is our very best effort. The rest is out of our control.

(((Leahsue))))

I love reading this. I wish i had acted with you're clarity, strength, and dignity this early on.

I think once we have answers and disclosure, making strong decisions is a lot easier.

Originally Posted By: leahsue

My response was, and still is, this may very well be the last communication H hears from me, and how do I want to be remembered? In a kind, dignified, graceful way. I'm the one who has to live with my own behavior and actions, so I choose to do it in a way I can live with and feel proud of.

That's beautiful, well said! Good luck, I hope it all goes smoothly!

Hey Leah,

Lean into that pain. That's one thing I learned in all of this, you either lean into it and allow yourself to feel. Or, you run from the pain for years to come.

Your H will regret this one day.

Yeah, I agree Thornton. But I'm not sure what that really, really means in a practical way. Let myself cry when I feel sad? That kind of thing?

Originally Posted By: leahsue

Yeah, I agree Thornton. But I'm not sure what that really, really means in a practical way. Let myself cry when I feel sad? That kind of thing?

Yes, let yourself feel the pain. Don't try to push it away. The fastest way is through it, not around it. A lot of us try to repress those feelings and pretend we're OK, but when we do that it usually just comes out later with 10x the force. I never cried growing up. There were times that I thought I should, but it was like I just couldn't. Wow, that all ended after BD, LOL! I cried driving to work. I cried driving home. I locked myself in the bedroom and cried. I cried so much I was just in awe and wonder of it, I never would have thought it possible, especially for ME. I wish I could say it made me feel better, but it really didn't. It just didn't make me feel worse. Over time I cried less and less until I just stopped one day. THEN I really did start feeling better.

Just as soon as I got on here and asked, what does "feel the pain" really look like..... I got a first-hand lesson. So crazy. My little faithful dog who is 13, tends to get hot spots, then keeps them irritated, and every now and then has to go to the vet, get antibiotic, etc. Usually I can catch it early, put baby socks on her little feet, and keep the scratching from making an open sore. Well, with everything else going on, I let one on her shoulder go too far, with me just trying to treat it at home, and today it looked awful. So I took her to the vet, they cleaned the place up and shaved around it, and by the time they had left the room to go get her meds for me to take home, she had ripped it right open again, blood everywhere. They said not to cover it, that it needed air, etc... so here I go to Walmart to buy more baby socks, wipes, and stuff. I left the car locked and running with her in it, and when I came out, she had torn into the place and (although it looks WAY worse than the actual sore, because she is white so the blood stains a much bigger area) and is sitting in the driver's seat of the car, looking up at me with these huge, sad eyes, and people, I just lost my $hit. I got in the car, held her, and cried and cried and cried. I just sat there until I could breathe again, and we came on home. Normally, that kind of thing would have just been, wow, this isn't cool, but today, it triggered something. Maybe that H has not even seemed to miss her these last 6 months, and this would have been a moment I would have picked up the phone and we would have talked it through, what to do, oh poor little dog...... and it just felt so ALONE.

So maybe today, I let myself feel the pain. Was sad. Cried. Then put the car in drive, and went home.

I guess be careful when you ask the universe a question. Because you may get the answer that very day.

((((leah))))

Ugh, I'm so sorry. How funny - my little elderly doggie is having foot trouble and has been limping and I'm trying to figure out why.

I feel similarly to you when you say you were sad because H doesn't seem to miss her. When H was angry with me and ignoring me, he'd ignore her, too. And she's just a loving little thing that didn't deserve it. (But, you know what, that could be applied to me, too!)

Hugs to your doggie, too. She'll be okay. She's got an owner who loves her and that's usually all a doggie needs to be blissfully happy.

My heart hurts for you as you begin on this journey. Who knows what will happen. I know you say that you think H's silence was because he knows it's over, but I don't agree with that. He hasn't wanted to do anything that may anger you, and that, to me, is him wanting you to still be available to him. Plus, he sent you flowers. Many of us get zero acknowledgment on our birthdays.

So, keep your chin up. It's best to assume it's over, just so you don't get lost in hope, but I'm not sure he's ready to let go of Leahsue. I do agree with making him pry off his grip of you if that's what you need, though.

Thanks for that Cadence! (((((your little dog))))))

Here are some thoughts another wise woman penned that may help some of us when tempted to reach for that cell phone and break the NC-

~Give yourself some peace. Any contact with him does not create peace or tranquility or better understanding; it only perpetuates distress and confusion. It never solves anything for you.

~You are not the gift that keeps on giving. So Just Stop! You are pouring yourself into a black hole.

~Contacting him will only remind you of how unimportant you are to him. Last thing you need right now is someone showing you how much you don�t matter. Don�t give it the space.

~He does not want what you have offered him. He has turned you down, time and time and time and time again. Why are you still offering him anything at all?

~You cannot change him; you cannot get through to him. The only thing you can change is your own behavior. So change it.

~He is not going to care about you. You need to care about you. Be your own best friend. Do what you know is good FOR YOU.

~Confusion, hurt, dishonesty, and disappointment are not kindly, well-intentioned gentlemen callers. Close the door.

~Give him a new experience of you. Your silence.

~Remember: you are not in the same relationship. He is not in this with you. You are riding solo to Miseryville via Miseryville. Get off the horse.

~He is neither emotionally nor physically available for you. He is somewhere else, on some other planet. So long as you remain emotionally and physically available for him you are burying and abandoning yourself in a loveless tomb � all by yourself. Why would you do that?

Very good Leah. A nice reminder. Although once you get down the road a bit further you won't need this. I would rather clean the toilets than talk to mine at this point.

(((leah))) I'm sorry. It hurts on so many levels--the lies, betrayal, more lies, and it can feel like someone is playing with your mind. But you are one strong lady and I know you will come out stronger than before. I have no doubt.

Sadly, at this point, I am more surprised when I find out the spouse ISN'T having an A! I tend to think even in that case, the LBS just never knew. ... Anyhow, I am not sure how much this info changes things for you. Yes, it hurts so terribly and deeply. It can even have us questioning what our M ever meant, where we went wrong, and who we are as a person (people). Here is what I truly believe now though, years further, and that is that it is really not about us. It is about them and their inability to cope with life's hardships or complex R's.

There is a way to handle hardships with respect and dignity and sadly your H has shown you his weakness. Please know that this is not a reflection of you or the woman that you are. It was up to him to talk to you and be an honest partner in how he dealt with the M and the issues (that all Ms have). I cannot say this enough times to you (and to every poster here).

So what does this change? I don't tend to think it changes that much. Often the A runs it's course, and there is some data that shows that to be 6 mos - 2 years or something. Sometimes the S has an awakening and sometimes then they come back. Sometimes they don't. Rarely do I think these As work out that well, as it is often a pipe dream or some fantasy. Either way, you don't have to wait to find out. It is perfectly fine to start taking action and file for D now and I think that even empowers some people. Maybe it will scare him to come running back? I don't know, but please don't let that be your reason.

In terms of what it changes emotionally, I don't know that it will help much. He is still gone--A or no A--and he has been checked out for some time now. You knew that--I could tell from your writings. Flowers or not, he has been gone. It still hurts all the same. As others say, just feel that pain. Allow it and process it. If you start to detach more or less well, that is okay too. Everything will unfold in time as it should. You will come out stronger because I can tell that you want that.

If there is something I want to say to you it is something that got me through. I held on to this belief that things never stay the same and things can always get better. Remember a time in your life when things felt terrible, devastating, or scary. Then recall how you felt a year later, then 5, and then 10. ... Well this will be like that too. That I can promise.

Take care, sweetie. You don't have to DO anything now. It is okay just to be present and allow some sadness and healing. There is always more time to do the rest.

Blu

Hi Leah,

So sorry to hear of the recent developments but I believe it helps to maybe not find out about the A in the beginning as we are dealing with so many emotions as it is... you are in a better place although it doesn't seem like it now.

Thank you for referring me to the NC list - I will probably need to refer to it often. It is so eye opening and true.

Your H affair will fizzle out. I actually think its better when they stop being hidden. It allows it to be tested and it's moved from fantasy to have the pressures of the real world coupled with the judgments from those who know how and when this started. They can say all they want that it didn't happen until after but the only people that believe that are the people you don't care about the begin with.

Sorry to go off on a tangent, I remember being where you were last BD finding out. Trust me, it will get better. My dad tells me all the time - he who laughs last laughs the longest, just remember that.

Hi friends,
Just posting to say hello. I'm reading along every day trying to keep up with people's sitch. Just not much to post right now on my own.

I got the draft from attorney late Thursday, and there were some major errors in it from the numbers we had discussed in our meeting. He left on vacation Wednesday and will be back in office Monday. I leave Monday for Washington for the week, so a little bit of frustration at not being here to clear this up.

I had some mild panic during the night after I got the draft, thinking about, what if this is the best he thinks I can get? I can't even live off this- and it would be cutting what I get from H now by 3/4. So I called my mom the next morning and asked for the info on her financial advisor that she and my dad have used for years. I gave him a call and got his assistant, who was SO supportive and told me to bring her the draft, along with some of my numbers, etc. I met with her yesterday and she spent over an hour just talking me through it all.... and the serendipitous part is..... her office is two doors down from my attorney, and they have all known each other for years. Small world. She said I'm in good hands, and that the numbers were just an oversight. She said he would never have arbitrarily changed my numbers on his own. She said I should stick with what I've asked, and go even more, and get into his pension. I felt much more empowered after spending time with her.

Anyway, that's all I can do for now. Let go until I can get all this straightened out..... and head WEST YOUNG LADY to see my sweet daughter and enjoy every minute out there. This mess will wait until I get back.

Silence from H. But that's OK. MUCH easier that way.

Have a wonderful trip, Leah!!!

Just starting a new thread. Still in WA with sweet D31. She started her new job yesterday, so I am unpacking boxes, organizing, being here for cable guy, etc. but staying busy which is always SO helpful. We have a fun, touristy kind of weekend planned complete with a Puget Sound whale watching trip. I fly home on Monday. And people, THIS WEATHER. Keep in mind I'm coming from AL, with 90 degree temp and 100% humidity, to THIS. I know it's not always this way, but I feel like the universe knew I needed this, so it planned my trip around it's showing off like this. I LOVE IT!

OK, that didn't start a new thread. Maybe someone send me the instructions for like the 100th time. Sorry!

How to start a thread

I will use what Job wrote

First Click on Newcomers then:

Originally Posted By: job

Go to the top of the screen and there is a new topic box on the left hand side. Click on it and then you will open the window to create a new subject as well as a posting. It's the same way that you created this thread.

Plus How to link your threads

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2588047#Post2588047

New thread

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2752276#Post2752276