PEW,
After reading your update, it seems like you knocked it out the park IMHO. Your changes are about you and you alone and if your W is interested that's totally different. She's got to figure things out on her own.
Keep focused on your D's transition to college and your current detachment like you seem like you are.
Well done.
Tryin2figuritout,
Thank you for your words of encouragement. This has not been an easy process as we all know but it has been getting easier. My W has really confused me this weekend as this is the first sign of her not knowing what she wants when prior to this she pretty much seemed to want to leave. Granted she is still in contact with OM but I have noticed her not so happy anymore and it appears that she is really on the fence now and conflicted about what she really wants. I will not read too much into it and just try to keep moving on my path.
I do know that at some point in the near future, things will need to be fully addressed and choices will need to be made. I wanting to prepare myself for that day. So right now I am looking for sound advice in what should be addressed and how should I go about it. I just want to handle it in the best possible way in our next conversation. I do not want to allow this to drag on in limbo as I currently am in.
Thanks again.
She made a comment about how she doesn't trust me yet
This comment from a cheating WW always just blows me away! I don't know how you held your tongue from saying, "Yeah, well same here b/c I can't trust you, either". However, those type of comments can quickly lead to a hotter level.
The only thing I have to say about that R conversation is that you handled it well. If it comes up again, don't make it sound as if the decision is all up to her. IOW, whether or not the M continues does not totally rest on her knowing what
she wants. See what I mean? You have a say in this, too. You may decide you are through with her BS and move on. (It wouldn't hurt if that idea suddenly struck her wayward brain!)
You need to stop worrying about what you need to be doing next. This is not a check-off list. You've already said you didn't want anything to disturb or affect your D's transition to college, right? In the meantime, you work your plan about becoming an attractive man....... and a plan about what you will
do when you will no longer tolerate the disrespect. I think it's when people just react from emotions that get them into a bigger mess, b/c they have no clear direction or sense of good timing.
Sandi2,
I have been trying to just work on myself and have been doing well in that area. I do find that comment about trusting me odd as well but I believe she meant it in what she sees me becoming as opposed to who I was when we were at our worst. I let it just blow over instead of leading me down a path to a blow out. I accepted it for what it was and the fact is that she has noticed me becoming a different man.
Your right in the fact that I need hers to know that the decision is not just her to make. I will subtly make that known in our next conversation. I do find myself getting to the point where we need to move in a specific direction. It will either be trying to move to where we will be working on our R or moving on separately. Either way this limbo stage needs to come to an end.
My daughter's graduation and party will be done by second week of July and if she has not brought up this conversation again I believe I will initiate it by the end of the month July. With the new school year approaching for my S7 at that point, this will need to be addressed as it may affect where he goes to school. I have not been acting out of emotion. I believe I have been able to act and discuss everything so far very calmly. I know it seems like I am worrying too much about what to do next. It is just that I realize there may be only one chance to say and do what I need to and I just want to make sure that I get my point of view across and then move forward from there.
Thanks for your response. You have been very helpful in me proceeding down the path I need to travel.
So yesterday was a an odd day in my stitch. My wife calls me on my way home and we speak for over 20 minutes about my D17 graduation party and other non important topics. It seemed she didn't want to end the phone call so at some point I said we can finish planning the party when I get home so I can officially make the arrangements with the catering hall tomorrow.
When I got home, I sat on the couch with the catering hall's information and she proceeded to move close to me and was just leaning on my shoulder while we looking over the info. We talked about the menu and what extras we wanted to include. After we finished deciding on what we wanted she continued to just lay on the couch leaning into my arm as we watched tv for a while. She has not been that close to me like that in months. As good as it felt, I tried to not read too much into it.
She also proceeded to talk about us going to check out a few new bar/restaurants in our area that look really nice and modern. Again, she hasn't talked about us doing anything together in months. Not sure if this is all related to what we talked about this weekend but I do believe she got the feeling that although I would not like her to move out, I would be fine in my life even if she did.
It was just a pleasant evening and for the first time it actually felt like she was trying to get close and comfortable with me again. I will not let this interrupt my progress as I know from what I read that her feelings and moods will change from day to day, but this felt like a baby step in the right direction to me. Going to keep progressing with my DB'ing as per usual and just pay attention closely to how she acts over the next few weeks.
Ok so I have more to add to what has been going on between me and my W. Like I said previously, she had brought up a R talk basically saying so what happens now and I believe she finally has gotten the impression that as much as I would like to work on our M, I am willing to walk away if things do not change. She has commented multiple times about how I have changed and how happy I appear.
So on top of her getting closer to me the other day, yesterday was more of the same. She sat on the couch laying next to me and we talked while watching a little television. Just to preface what I am going to write next, I have been sleeping in my S7's room. I know people have said do not leave the MBR but I haven't been sleeping in there for quite a few months so it is not that I gave it to her now, it is just the dynamic that we have been living in for awhile. Anyway, I was going to put my S7 to bed and she came over to me and asked if I wanted to come sleep in the MBR after he falls asleep. Since she has been moving slowly closer to me the past few days since our talk I figured this would be a good next step.
I proceeded to go into the MBR after S7 was sleeping and as I laid in bed she pushed all the way into me and put my arm around her. I must admit it felt really nice to hold her again. I am at a point that I am trying to let her get closer to me and allow her to be comfortable being next to me again but at the same time keep myself detached to the point where if this backslides I will not be crushed, This is no easy task as we all know.
My question to everyone is do these seem like positive baby steps or is this because she is fearful that I am willing to move on and get over her once and for all. I can't tell if these are sincere moves or just temp checking moves trying to suck me back in. Sandi2 or anyone else, I would appreciate if you can shed some thoughts on what has been transpiring and how I should proceed.
PEW,
IMO it's cake eating. She does not want the dynamic to change, she wants a family and a boyfriend.
IMO You laying with her makes you look weak. You are basically saying I will share you with another man.
It's hard as h$ll to do, but when someone changes the terms of a relationship/marriage that you don't agree with it. The only thing to do is walk away and never look back until they are 100% committed.
LH19,
Thank you for your input. I do see your point. Regardless of what transpires, I do have a mental date set in my mind, which is after my D17's graduation party, to have a R talk with her about either being committed to working on our M or us separating.
I figured in the meantime I would give her the chance to slowly come back to me if that is what she wants to. I will keep myself emotionally detached like I have been doing. I know this will make it harder for me but it does feel like the move I need to make right now. My gut is telling me let this play out in the meantime but not definite yet. I have to really think this through.
Hey PEW, sorry but I gotta agree with LH19 and I think you should have said no thanks...
I understand that you are not trying to create something till after the graduation but I still think you should have said no....
Si_07,
To be honest, it caught me off guard and maybe I made the wrong choice. Will take the time today to rethink it. Thank you for your advice. Sometimes it we need to hear it from people outside looking in.
PEW,
I see where the others are coming from. But this might be your W way of putting her toes in the water seeing if those feelings are still there. Not sure if your W OM is still in the picture. But the DR book seemed to support the decision you made. Which is being patient with your W.
Tread,
I haven't seen much from you on this board lately. I have been trying to stay off it as to not focus on my W and our current situation. It seems to be helping. How have you been? How are things in your stitch lately?
I kind of feel the same way in what you are saying. I feel that after the talk we had over the weekend, which by the way was the first time she brought up our R, she might be trying to test the waters maybe to help her make a decision. I am not sure and I am not going to try and guess what she might be thinking. I am trying to give her a chance to get comfortable with me again but still keep myself at a good emotional distance until she makes a decision.
I am still considering leaving the MBR but I may give this a week or so to play out. Just trying different things to see how this can progress and if any don't work I will backtrack and try something else. I do have a mental date on making a decision and if she can't make up her mind at that point then I will do what is best for me. Only time will tell.
Thanks for checking in.
Hi PEW,
I've been reading your thread for the past few days and just wanted to offer my support. I think you are doing a lot of good things, especially focusing on yourself and your D.
My situation is a little like yours in that I'm sort of stuck with my W still living with me. She can't afford a place of her own and won't go stay with a friend, at lest not yet. My W has had to move out of the MBR and now back in since kids are home from college for the summer. It has made things uncomfortable. I suggest you do not leave the MBR. My stance when confronted by my wife is to say "Why would I leave the MBR/house when I'm still the one in the marriage? With your actions you have chosen to leave the marriage."
I wish I could say my W if making positive steps back towards the MR but she is not. I can't read her mind but she seems to be very depressed that as a SAHM she has no job prospect and would have no where to go if we S or D. Our situation is very limited by finances.
I also think you are right to keep trying new things when something isn't working. That is a lot of my mindset right now. That and prayer.
resolut,
I find myself praying a lot too but my prayers have changed from wanting my M to somehow work out to just having the strength to make it through either way. I will pray for you too. You could never have too many prayers.
The funny thing about how the last 3 months have been going is that my W was originally completely done with me and any interaction with me. Slowly as I have been working on myself and my attitude through a bunch of 180's, I see her warming up to me more and more each week. She is at the point where she wants us to do things together. Now I know it doesn't mean much as long as she is still contacting/seeing the OM but it might be her testing to see what she really wants.
I am still so confused about everything but I realize I get stronger everyday in keeping it together. I have been able to detach from her and the A and have been enjoying going out with old and new friends. Still working on expanding my friend circle as a lot are married and can't get out much but I have no problem meeting new people.
Like you, the living together while separated is probably the hardest because the whole situation is constantly in your face but at the same time what you do and how you change for the better is also in your W's face. It allows you to go about your business and know that your W is probably watching/noticing.
My W is a SAHM also and says she is looking for a job but nothing ever seems to be good enough. We will see because she is going to have to find something to be able to support herself. While my wife might not have any money of her own, if we were to sell the house and take half each she would have enough to either buy a condo or rent an apartment with plenty in the bank as I have officially paid the mortgage off a year ago. Still she says it won't be enough to live on. While she has a point to an extent, it would be enough to live if she found a job. What a concept.
I don't know how this will turn out but I am allowing this to proceed as slowly as it has been but with the knowledge that I have an end date in mind where I will make the decision for myself. Do not want to stay in limbo much longer and she will have to deal with the consequences of her actions eventually. I am not trying to be vindictive as it will financially be just as hard for myself but I know I will survive.
I hope for the best in your stitch and I am thankful for your time and input. We are all in this together and that helps me knowing I am not alone.
PEW,
I have been keeping away from the board to work on myself and stop focusing so much on my W. If you look at my post from yesterday there's an update that I need some assistance with. But I am glad to hear that your W might be finally coming around. Just keep doing what your doing and monitoring the results.
Hi PEW,
I find myself praying a lot too but my prayers have changed from wanting my M to somehow work out to just having the strength to make it through either way. I will pray for you too. You could never have too many prayers.
My prayers have been all over the place. Lately I am praying and just asking how I should be praying. Asking for help. Its not like some of my prayers haven't been answered so far. They have. But I am confused about who I should be in this R and whether my W is coming or going. I still want the R but I know it will be a huge amount of work to recover. There's no way there can be any hope of R with the OM in place and no remorse from my W.
The funny thing about how the last 3 months have been going is that my W was originally completely done with me and any interaction with me. Slowly as I have been working on myself and my attitude through a bunch of 180's, I see her warming up to me more and more each week. She is at the point where she wants us to do things together. Now I know it doesn't mean much as long as she is still contacting/seeing the OM but it might be her testing to see what she really wants.
This sounds positive to me and your tactics must be working. Right now my wife is changing her own flight for a family vacation we had planned so she can spend a few extra days with her AP. It hurts but at least I will be out of town with all of my kids and away from her.
My W is a SAHM also and says she is looking for a job but nothing ever seems to be good enough. We will see because she is going to have to find something to be able to support herself. While my wife might not have any money of her own, if we were to sell the house and take half each she would have enough to either buy a condo or rent an apartment with plenty in the bank as I have officially paid the mortgage off a year ago. Still she says it won't be enough to live on. While she has a point to an extent, it would be enough to live if she found a job. What a concept.
I've been trying to convince my wife she needs to find a serious FT job with benefits. She seems to think she can just start with something part time and expect to survive w/o me. Also, she is planning to get a job while we're still married and "save up" for later. That comment was so aggravating to me since it totally goes against what a marriage should be: collaborative. I said nothing about that during the conversation but I plan on returning to that topic if she gets a job. I say if because this has been out in the open for a few weeks and I've seen 0 effort out of her to find anything.
I'm in agreement with you on the vindictiveness. That is not me. Maybe I'm too nice but I have intention of just throwing her out which is what I could do since I live in a no-fault state. I'm willing to help her transition into something and have told her so.
I'm in a holding pattern for now and it doesn't get any easier from here while the A continues.
resolut,
I hear you about being in a holding pattern. It makes it a little easier seeing an pattern of improvement on my W's end but like you said as long as the A is going on there is no chance of working on our M.
Do you have an end date in mind of when you won't stay in this holding pattern any longer? I found that once I set one in my mind, it kind of brought me some peace because it gave me some control of the situation instead of feeling helpless. I hope things can turn around before then but if not then it will be time to officially separate. It may push her further into the affair but if she is in it anyway then the OM might as well have all her issues too.
Maybe it is what we need for things to turnaround. I don't know and I won't know until it happens. Either way it moves me in a direction. I am at the point, or at least getting to the point where I need to put this behind me so I can breathe again.
resolut,
Do you have an end date in mind of when you won't stay in this holding pattern any longer? I found that once I set one in my mind, it kind of brought me some peace because it gave me some control of the situation instead of feeling helpless. I hope things can turn around before then but if not then it will be time to officially separate. It may push her further into the affair but if she is in it anyway then the OM might as well have all her issues too.
Hi PEW,
Originally I was going to wait 3 mos from BD which would be mid June. Through my own discernment work and various advice I have received, this is too soon. I've been advised to not give the D legs right now. So no I no longer have an end date. I originally thought we could get a D and settle things before the kids went back to school at the end of the summer but I see that is no longer possible. The process is going to take a while especially since she has no job/income. I am continuing to set boundaries though and I'm wanting her to move to a friends house. I feel like I'm walking a fine line of not being too vindictive. I fully realize she deserves to be thrown out and perhaps that will eventually happen.
Living separated is extremely difficult as you surely recognize. The one thing it does is make my W's time with her AP limited. Perhaps he will become frustrated at some point and want to end things.
Ok so here is the latest. I went out last night with friends and got home a little late which caused me to get a late start for work this morning. I got up around 5:30am and got ready for work. My W got up earlier than usual this morning and when I walked into the MBR to get something she wished me a Happy Birthday (which is today). This is something she didn't do last year as we were really sinking in our M at the time.
I went into the kitchen to make my coffee before I left and she got up and went into the fridge and pulled out a lunch she made for me to take to work today. Kind of threw me off but it was a nice gesture.
Another odd thing is yesterday as we were speaking on the phone, she mentioned to me how she hasn't been on Facebook in over a week. This is someone who was always checking her facebook account. I don't know why she interjected that into our conversation but I am not going to put too much stock into it at this point. To be honest, it has caused a little confusion for me as I do not understand what is the reasoning behind all of this.
Can't trust that these are sincere actions yet or just her way of realizing I am at my end with the situation currently and this is her way to keep me as a back up. Going to try and keep doing what I have been doing and keeping myself emotionally detached until there are signs that she is ending the A. That is the only thing that matters to me at this point because there is no M or any chance of working on our M until this happens.
My date to separate, unless there is a commitment to try and work on our M, remains for after the grad party. We will see what transpires until then. Just want to say thanks to all the support from everyone as this has given me comfort and strength to live my life for me.
Hi PEW,
Keep going with what you are doing and resist trying to interpret anything. It sounds like you are doing all the right things. Keep finding ways to live your life to its fullest right now because that's you deserve. But these things from your W are actions which is good.
I do understand the agony of the A and wanting it to end. I suppose putting a timeline in your mind for S is a good thing. Like I said yesterday I've had to retreat on mine but I'm still ambivalent just thinking about how long I can stand this with no movement of my W. My W went to IC yesterday and is going back.
Keep going.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, PEW!!!! (((( )))))
resolut,
Thanks. you will know when you have had enough. Her going back to IC appears to be a positive step.
PEW, Happy Birthday! I am pulling for you and praying for you along with the others. Also watching your sitch with much interest since it has something in common with mine (WW in an A who sometimes shows some interest in me that appears genuine). Wondering if your WW will really come around without having the "no contact or get out" moment. I, too, am now targeting a post-HS graduation (son) timeframe for pushing the issue if there is not a breakthrough.
Best wishes--- sending some "white light" your way.
Happy Birthday!!! Continuing to follow your sitch and hoping for the best.
leahsue,
Thank you for the birthday wishes. It means a lot. I have been trying my to keep off the forum as it helps me detach and not focus on my W. It was definitely nice to see other people remember my birthday. Thank you again.
hoosjim,
Thank you for remembering my birthday. This board really knows how to make a person feel important. I appreciate all the wishes. Settle by a mental date helps me with moving toward. It gives me some control in an otherwise wise uncontrollable situation. Ultimately I decide how much I can take. She has shown signs of staying off Facebook but I am almost positive the A has gone deeper to throw me off. I do see she does not carry her physical me around with her but it doesn't mean she is in NC with the OM. At least things slate getting better but she did not get me anything for my birthday. I kind of figured that would happen but she did wake up to wish me a happy birthday.
Trying to stay positive and focused on what I need to do. Hoping for the best but not expecting any miracles. I will keep everyone posted on what happens ne t.
So my W is now talking about the future more and what we could do in the house and wanting to go and check out new restaurants/bars. I find this so hard to truly believe as she still is seeing the OM. I am keeping my distance but at the same time trying to have some fun with her as to show her that we can still be good together. Some nights we lay in bed and talk and laugh. There is still no real physical contact and no real emotional connection.
I find myself more and more just wanting to move forward in my life instead of being in this limbo stage. There is nothing I want more than to save my M but I am realizing that any type of work on it can not begin until she has ended her A. I see her as the same woman with the same issues that have led us to this unfortunate situation. I continue to work on myself and have been feeling more confident than ever.
I remain steady on my internal date to possibly physically separate after my D17 grad party. I know it will hurt but I also know that it is for the best for me emotionally. There is nothing positive about being stuck in limbo and if my W still can not make up her mind with what she wants than I am going to have to make up my mind. We are still a month away from all this happening and anything can happen but at the moment I just can't see it.
We definitely have made more progress in our dealings with each other. We are laughing more and I see her being more proactive in working around the house. She has been working outside with me in the yard and looks to sit with me to talk sometimes. I am open to keeping interactions with her positive and sincere and it seems to be making a difference as she is opening up more with what she shares with me. It has been 13 weeks since the BD and we have not had any real argument. We have disagreed a few time but I responded in ways that diffused the situation instead of fueling the fire. I can see that it really threw my W off and with in a short period of time she got herself out of her bad mood. Only time will tell.
Hi PEW,
It sounds like you are moving in the right direction. If your wife is still seeing the OM have you made it clear that there's no chance for your MR as long as he is around?
I have told my wife we're basically separated until she stops all contact with him and what she is doing is not ok with me. I try to reinforce that with the fact that I still believe in her and that she can make the right decision about what to do. I put the ball in her court.
PEW,
You have been friend zoned and she's cake eating big time. IMO that is not a good thing.
resolut,
In the end that is all we can do. The decision to come back to the M and try and work on things has to be a choice/desire made by her otherwise it feels empty to me.
She knows how I feel and there is nothing more I can do but make up my mind as to not be a part of the situation any longer. I must remove myself as the back up plan and let her sink or swim based on her choices. I can no longer support and protect her as that only comes with us being in a M. This in house separation must come to a head if it is going to get better.
I no longer fear the worst as I have already been living it anyway. I know now I can not lose what is not there. Maybe it will start to snap her out of it and maybe not but I realize now it will must hit the bottom before it can move upwards.
resolut
I no longer fear the worst as I have already been living it anyway. I know now I can not lose what is not there. Maybe it will start to snap her out of it and maybe not but I realize now it will must hit the bottom before it can move upwards.
Those are wise words about no longer fearing the worst. I think one of the first things you have to do is face your fears about D and losing your S. When you are living in a fear state you cannot function or detach properly. i remember feeling much better when my attitude became like yours, realizing I lost my W a long time ago and I needed to move on and not think about the outcome.
Being separated but living in the same house at least has the advantage that things can be sped up for better or worse, but it is excruciating.
So my W continues to go out 1 or 2 times a week and while our situation has improved between us I really can no longer live like this. My question to all is should I stay the course and keep working on myself (180s) and GAL or should I talk about physical separation. I know it may push us toward a D but even with detaching from the drama, this is no way to live and it would be so much easier for me to move on with out having to be around it.
At a crossroads and do not know how to proceed. I was waiting for my D17 graduation party coming up in 5 weeks but I find myself starting to feel like it is almost not worth fighting for anymore. Is this common for LBS? Should I stick it out or should I take our in house separation to the next level? I am confused right now and as much as I love my W and want our M to get back on track I just don't know if the current course of actions is ultimately going to get me to that goal.
My question to all is should I stay the course and keep working on myself (180s) and GAL or should I talk about physical separation.
PEW,
The course you take is something you'll have to decide for yourself.
When my marital issues began, my wife (now XW) convinced me that she and the OM were "just friends" and that I was just jealous. We went to three MC sessions and then she stopped going. I continued with the MC (who became my IC) and the MC confirmed what I'd felt the entire time; my wife was having an EA. As soon as I realized I was no longer the number one guy in my wife's life, my words and actions changed dramatically.
The one thing that my MC said that really resonated with me is, "Look, this is how marriage works; if one spouse doesn't like the other spouse's friend, then the friend has to go." If I ever get married again, that will be in the marriage vows.
Just reading your last paragraph doodler, my MIL said the exact same thing as that. In a marriage, if one spouse doesn't like a friend, the friend has to go.
Just reading your last paragraph doodler, my MIL said the exact same thing as that. In a marriage, if one spouse doesn't like a friend, the friend has to go.
It is a good line for sure. The problem is when the accused S doesn't take this seriously enough. This is where my marriage went off the cliff and I became disrespected.
PEW, I don't have much advice for you since as you know I am stuck in similar circumstances. I am deciding to stay with the in house separation for a while and I cannot really explain why. It is not because I have hope of saving the M. I can tell you that it helps me to have several goto things to help me in dark times. Focus points. They are all very personal and God or higher power is at the top of my list. Take some time to develop things that help you cope and walk through the dark moments that you face. I wrote a personal statement (resolution) to myself at one point that I read sometimes.
Thank you all for your replies. I do know I need to figure this out for myself. I guess all these feelings come with the roller coaster ride of emotions we are all on. I am going to sleep on it for a few days and really think it through before I decide.
PEW,
One thing I can tell you is that nothing is going to change in the next five weeks unless you grow a set and say "W I will not continue to live in an open marriage. If you continue to disrespect me and our marriage you can pack your bags and move out and be with your BF whenever you want".
You must be ready to be congruent with your words.
So here is the latest in my stitch. Wednesday my W went out with a single mother who lives in our town and I woke up right before she got dropped off at 1:30 in the morning. It was a man that dropped her off so at this point I realize I am done in this whole situation. I spoke withe her the next day and told her I can no longer live like this. She asked so what should we do and I said I that she should move out and she said she had no place to go and she wasn't going to leave. Since I can not force her out I proceeded to tell her that I think it is best If I leave then.
She asked where would I go and I told her I am not sure but I have a few options. She asked if I would be staying with family and I told her at 43 I am not going back to live with my parents. She said she would want to know where I would be living and I told her she doesn't need to know that. She then said could we still go out and do things and be friends which I replied I am not looking for a friendship. I said we can be civil about coparenting but that would be the extent of it.
She then had nothing else to say and was just silent for the next 2 minutes so I said we will discuss the finances and visitation schedule next time we talk and then I said I have to go. I had plans yesterday anyway so I was not going to cancel them. I went out had as good a time as I could given the current situation. I got home a little after 12 am and went to bed. I have been in no contact with her since the talk a day ago and to be honest I have this deep sadness but at the same time I feel and know that I will be alright.
I have pulled myself out of this limbo, hit the bottom and now I can start building my life back up. I don't know what the future holds but I could not go on with how my current life was going. I am sad yet excited about finally having a direction in life. I still love her but I need to move on for my own sanity. I can no longer protect her or support her lifestyle choices. I am taking my life back.
I know this probably doesn't go with the DB principles but I know when I have had enough and I have had enough. I thank everyone for their advice on these boards and I hope for the best in their situations. I pray that they go better then what mine has turned out to be. I will keep everyone posted in what happens over the next few weeks.
Pew,
I know it's hard but you did the right thing. Before you move out consult a lawyer and make sure moving out can't be held against you.
You will be fine!
LH19,
Thank you for response and concern. My plan is to have a separation agreement made out and signed by both of us this way we both know what we each will be responsible for. I am not leaving anything up for interpretation. It took a awhile but I deserve better than this and I am finally taking my life back no matter how hard it may be to actually do it.
PEW,
You do deserve better! I am guessing there is a enormous weight lifted off your shoulders.
Focus on your children and become the man you want to be.
I know this probably doesn't go with the DB principles but I know when I have had enough
Why do you think that?
Also, when she said "I have no place to go", why were you so quick to relent to moving out? I imagine wherever you go will be similar to wherever she would go...
PEW,
Sorry to hear that it came to that. Sending good thoughts your way. Just to add to what others are saying, think positively now about the possibilities you have.
Kaizen,
Thank you for your input. When she said that she had no place to go, I immediately thought that my son would be living God knows where so it made me decide to be the one to move out. I don't want to disrupt my son's life any more than this will already. I know I can start over somewhere else and survive. I just have to get through the mourning process.
resolut,
Thank you for the positive vibes. I know things will get so much better for me, it is just hard to see that at the moment.
I don't want to disrupt my son's life any more than this will already.
Im sorry but Im still confused.
Why does it matter which parent is moving out as to how much disruption your son will have? Does this mean youre giving her full physical custody when you leave?
PEW,
Sorry to hear that things went in this direction. Probably would have done the same seeing her stepping out of some guys vehicle. But it still isn't over yet. This might be the thing that causes her to get her act together. But just focusing on your kids and yourself. Your a better man than me. When your W said she had nowhere else to go. I would have responded that sounds like a problem that you and OM need to work out.
Kaizen,
I would not be giving her full custody. It is the fact that with my long hours of work plus the long commute each way, I really wouldn't be able to take care of my son. So I figured by letting her stay in the house, my son wouldn't have to leave his home.
Kaizen,
I would not be giving her full custody. It is the fact that with my long hours of work plus the long commute each way, I really wouldn't be able to take care of my son. So I figured by letting her stay in the house, my son wouldn't have to leave his home.
So then if your son is sleeping at the same house as your W every night, my understanding is that that is considered full custody. You may want to run this by a lawyer.
All I know is that it's all too commonplace to not be allowed back in once you leave. Who's to say that she won't file for complete custody and tell the judge that you haven't slept in the same place as S in months?
Tread,
It has been an interesting weekend so far. Do not have much time to give details right now but will post after I have some time to reflect on things.
Kaizen,
I wasn't planning on leaving without some type of separation agreement signed by both of us detailing financial responsibilities and child visitation/custody. My W and I have had a couple of really good conversations this weekend. I am taking a few days to reflect on what was discussed and will post on it soon. Thank you for your concerns as there is a lot of legal issues to consider.
So on Friday when I got home my wife started talking to me and broke down crying telling me how much I have hurt her. She mentioned something that happened 12 years ago in which she wanted us to go do something and I wound up helping a neighbor out with something instead. I replied with I realize how much that must have hurt and how I have taken her for granted. I apologized for my past actions and said I realize saying sorry doesn't repair what has been done.
I told her while I can not do anything to change what has happened in the past, I would love the chance to show her a better and more loving future if given the chance. This was the first time she has opened herself up with honestly talking about what she is feeling. We have had some hard times but we have also had some great times too. I know right now she is focusing only on the bad to excuse what she is doing and it hurts but all I can do is validate how she feels.
I told her that I could not be around anymore while she is meeting other men when she goes out. I told her that it is better for me to go and not be around this behavior otherwise I will start to hate her for what she is doing. We ended our conversation and continued working outside.
On Saturday we were working again outside together and we were talking about the pool and I mentioned that maybe we should get a better above ground pool. She followed that with I guess you are not leaving. I replied that I really don't want to leave but feel I must. She looked at me in the eyes and said even though she is confused right now, she knows she doesn't want me to leave either.
I told her that I will not rush to leave and give it a few more weeks but that we need to talk in 1 month and address what is going to happen. I told her that if we do decide we are going to try and make this work that we will need outside help like counseling. She agreed and that is where I currently stand. I realize she could just want me to stay as a comfort but I need to see where this goes. I am still prepared to leave so I will approach the next few weeks cautiously.
So on Friday when I got home my wife started talking to me and broke down crying telling me how much I have hurt her. She mentioned something that happened 12 years ago in which she wanted us to go do something and I wound up helping a neighbor out with something instead. I replied with I realize how much that must have hurt and how I have taken her for granted. I apologized for my past actions and said I realize saying sorry doesn't repair what has been done.
PEW,
My wife (now XW) often reminded me of a terrible thing that I did shortly after we were married (15 years prior). I don't remember the event, but she described what happened. I'd been outside working and I came into the house. My wife had been sweeping the kitchen floor and asked me to throw her an old towel. Apparently when I threw her the towel, it landed in the pile of dirt and debris she'd swept from the kitchen floor. Never mind that I would've had to throw the towel over the kitchen counter, and by her own admission, I couldn't have seen the pile of dirt she'd swept. And, you know how precisely you can throw a towel. Anyway, according to my wife, when she told me that the towel messed-up her pile of dirt, I simply said, "Well, sweep it up." And, I went back outside to continue working in the lawn. Now that's a d@mn good reason to get a divorce.
I can't tell you how many times I apologized for that event (15 years hence) and my apologies didn't make any difference. What's the moral of the story? Your wife is living in bizarro world so don't believe anything she says...
doodler,
It is truly amazing to see where their focus is. I am taking what she says with a grain of salt. The only reason I am giving another month before I leave is because this is the first time she at least tried to tell me how she is feeling. I do believe that she is hurting, I just don't agree with her actions. I am using this time to continue to figure out my plans and get everything in order financially with my departure if we continue down this path. I don't expect anything to change but will allow a little more time to see what transpires.
PEW,
It's amazing the bs these WS try to sell us in justifying their bad decisions. Like you said take it with a grain of salt. If they spent that time being bitter and actually talked with us life would be so much better. It's good that you see where she is going with this. If my W was to at least admit to being confused that would at least be in the right direction in getting out of limbo.
At the moment everything seems to be going ok under the current circumstances. My W seems to call me the past few days at work and just wants to talk. I have noticed we also talk more at home. We have been sitting together on weekends outside having coffee and just talking. I have to say it has been nice. I know she is confused about what she wants but should I stay with my physical separation plans in a month or just keep doing my GAL and see where this leads? I try not to focus too much time on thinking about our situation at the moment. I am unsure if I am just being complacent. I find myself being confused now about what I truly want. I love my W with my whole heart but I can not help but feel anger about everything. Is this normal and does it pass at some point?
You have been put in the friend zone.
There is one question to answer. Are you willing to live in an opened marriage?
I find myself being confused now about what I truly want. I love my W with my whole heart but I can not help but feel anger about everything. Is this normal and does it pass at some point?
PEW,
I think confusion and anger are normal. In fact, I think it would be abnormal not to have some confusion and anger. The loss of a marital relationship can be very traumatizing.
And yes, it gets better over time.
Preparing for my conversation to my W about us physically separating. Asking all on how to approach this conversation and what are some things I should be saying during it. I am looking to let her know that I can no longer live in this open M and that as long as she contacts the OM we can not begin to try and work on our R. I feel that she is the one who has left our M by having this affair and she should be the one to leave our home. Since she is getting her needs met from the OM he might as well be supporting her too. I will take care of the house and the children. I can not and will not support her life choices any longer.
I have thought about my plan to leave the house and from what posters were saying I believe she should be the one to leave. If she decides not to leave, how should I proceed? I am truly done with the current situation and am having trouble getting past the damage that has been done to me and my family. She needs to accept the consequences of her actions.
Thoughts?
PEW,
Go ahead and make it happen. If OM wants her so bad, then let him step up to the plate. This should give W a serious reality check. Wish I could've done the same to my own W, but with OM having a W of his own, she already knows he would leave her hanging. But you should definitely ask her to leave. The presence of the OM gives these W a sense of hope that makes no sense whatsoever. And it blocks everything you try to do to make the MR right.
Its time for your W to make a decision or at least get rid of OM, while she seriously considers giving your MR a chance. If she is foolish enough to choose OM, then that's her loss. OM is living the fantasy and reality quickly changes everything. Especially when word gets out about your W leaving her family to be with OM. But I do hope it all works out in your favour.
Tread,
Thank you for the continued support. I am really unsure how to proceed. All I know is that I allowed her to suck me back into the drama but I have been working on detaching again. I am finally getting back to that point of keeping myself into a safe emotional distance.
I have fallen victim to the somewhat pursuing her and I am trying to get back to distancing myself. I see her checking in on me again but I am not allowing myself to fall back into that role. I am keeping any phone call she makes to me short, pleasant and to the point and then end it. I refuse to be just her friend while her affair continues.
I am trying to find inner peace but it is not easy. While I am getting there, I realize I have a lot further to go. Not being around her makes it easier. I continue to work on my 180's and see that they have become routine for me. I am happy and proud of myself for how much I have improved over the past 4 months. I continue to GAL and it helps. I need to work a little harder in that area, Maybe go out more than once a week. I realize that when I do go out I am able to get my mind off of my situation with my W.
I do not know what the cards hold for me but I am trying to be more accepting of the path I need to go down wherever it may take me. I am working on letting go and being able to drop the rope completely. Let her deal with the consequences of her actions. Maybe she will or maybe she won't have a change of heart. I try and remind myself that I am not the only one hurting in this and I need to keep reminding myself of that fact. I don't want to come across as cold while I detach.
I do not post as much as I find when I am on here I allow myself to focus too much on my W. I do keep up on other peoples stitches and pray for the best for all of them.
Quick update to my stitch. I GALed pretty good this weekend and had a great time with friends. My W and I talked a bit on Sunday and she said that she was happy to see me being productive after a long night out. She mentioned that the old me would have rested alot the next day after going out like that. She also said that she likes the new me. We laid on the couch together while she had her hands in my hands. It made me feel good that she has seen the changes that I have gone through and most of all it appears that she is starting to believe that they are real changes.
I have been trying to keep myself with an as if attitude for the past few weeks and it seems as if she is noticing. She has been opening up to me a little more each time. I realize that this is going to be a long journey if we are to try and work on our R. I am trying to find the strength to keep moving forward with or without her. It isn't always easy but I have been journaling the whole time and when I read through my notes I see a slow progression of her coming around to me.
I don't know when or if she will ever fully come around but I do realize that it will take time.
PEW,
Glad to hear that things are going in a good direction for you. Whatever your doing keep it going, because its clearly working right now.
Well today is my W 40th birthday. Got through our 17th anniversary last month, now I just have to get through this day. These events make it difficult to get through the daily drama.
She has been making small steps lately in that she has been going out of her way to help me out. That really hasn't happened in a long time. There are moments where she shows cracks in her rigid exterior but really no emotional connection. Not really expecting one at this point. I realize she has to go through a lot more of her journey before there might even be a chance for us. Don't really know what to say at this point but trying to keep moving forward.
Going to a minor league baseball game on Saturday with S7. It will be a Star Wars themed night with great fireworks. Should be a really good time.
Pew,
Are you still planning to separate after the graduation party?
LH19,
Thank you for interest.
I have been rethinking this after Txhubby's story. It seems maybe staying in the same house is a better option as long as I can handle it and keep myself emotionally detached from the drama. I have been thinking more about the idea around here that this situation has been building for months/years for my W and it will not be fixed overnight. I am willing to put the time and effort into this.
I am still working on me and trying to build a better life for me and my children regardless of what happens. I need to stay focused on that. I don't really get caught up in what my W is doing day to day yet remain open to friendly dialogue when she contacts me. I am going to give it everything I got so if it doesn't work out then I can at least feel I won't second guess myself that I didn't try hard enough.
Only time will tell and for now time is on my side.
PEW,
I am a big fan of Txhubby as a poster.
However, IMO he played it perfectly and that was the only reason that it worked for him.
Now everyone here thinks they can have the same success staying together while their spouse is in an open A.
You're being driven by fear and that my friend is a recipe for a long painful road. I know I have been there.
I understand all that but it did take Txhubby awhile before he finally was able to do what he had to do. I realize I am not there yet but I am getting better emotionally each week.
Yeah and he said it was effecting his health and almost killed him.
I think you really need to read through his entire thread. IMO it was all based on his attitude and I don't think you are close to be there at all.
Good luck to you.
PEW,
Just checking up to see how things are going with you? Haven't heard from you in awhile on here. Hope things are getting better for you.
Hey PEW, how are you doing?
Tread,
It has been pretty much status quo in my world. I have been doing my own thing and actually have been enjoying myself. I do pop in from time to time and catch up on other stitches but really have not had the drive to post on mine since nothing has really changed. I wish you luck in your stitch and I am keeping up on it and will continue to keep everyone in my prayers.
Sandi2,
Thank you for asking, I have been doing fine. Some days I do find myself spinning with thoughts of my W but they have been fewer and fewer and do not last as long. I see that slowly my confidence is coming back. I recently had a meeting with the owners of my company and sat down and finally got company insurance with them paying 80% of it and also got a 10% raise. The old me would have been more complacent where as the new me expects and wants better for myself.
My W has been reaching out more to me but I keep her at a distance. I communicate with her when she initiates and try to stay calm and compassionate. It is funny how she brings up the future from time to time. She talks about us moving from where we currently live to areas of NJ that are hours away. Not sure why she does this but I don't get sucked into these talks with her while she is currently in her A. All I respond is that I agree that I feel it is time for a change and leave it at that.
I don't see her texting on her phone as much. Even at night, she goes to sleep shortly after going to bed where as before she would be up for over an hour on her phone. I think she is just trying to hide it more as you have warned would happen. She also calls me when she goes out now and asks me to text her during the course of the night on how the children are doing which she hasn't done in the past.
I find her behavior to be very strange and inconsistent but do not focus on it too much. I remain focused on working on myself and getting myself to a more healthier physical and mental state. It has been almost 5 months from BD and I do see great progress in me and right now that is all that matters.
PEW,
Glad to hear that the changes your making our going well for you. Funny how the WW talks about the future with after telling you that no longer wants to be with you. My W was trying to put up a painting over the fireplace when she has no intent on staying the MR at the moment or keeping the house if the MR comes to an end. When ahe says things like that I simply walk away.
PEW,
The talks of the future are temp checks to see if you are still on board as plan B. Nothing more.
What are your boundaries? Are you ok being in an open marriage?
LH19,
I am not ok with being in an open marriage. I have stated a few months ago about knowing about the OM and not accepting it and since then she has covered it up much more by not always being on the phone or carrying her phone around as much. I do struggle with really enforcing this boundary as I have talked about either her leaving or me leaving with her stating that she is unsure of what she wants but doesn't want either of us leaving.
I understand she is temp checking when she talks or asks about certain R topics such as moving. I have pretty much distanced myself and I am currently getting through my daughters grad party and move to her college in Florida at the end of August. In the meantime I am trying to clean up some debts financially so I will have the financial ability to change the current living situation when needed.
I realize I am failing at certain DBing aspects and have been so overwhelmed with other things going on right now. I also realize that once these situations settle soon, I need to rethink what course of action I need to follow.
PEW,
I keep bringing it up because the longer you live in an open marriage the harder it is going to be to restore.
Read Coconut's posts on Hoosjims threads. He believes if he would have separated earlier has marriage may have been restored.
LH19,
What are your suggesting? Because if his W isn't leaving. And he won't leave, than until someone files for a divorce, then they are stuck. Especially if there are financially issues involved. I am in the same boat of try to move on, but not end up homeless in the process.
Good to hear from you again, PEW. Refresh my memory.......have there been any episodes of inappropriate behavior between your W another man? If she is refusing to leave the home, and you refuse to leave, also..........it appears you have an impass.
Have you actually talked to a lawyer to see what could happen if you don't live comprarable to you leaving?
It appears your W receives all the benefits of holding the position of your W. Have you checked to see what would be in store for you, if you decided to move?
Pew & Tread,
IMO one of two things will happen. She will continue to lose respect for him because he is allowing her to disrespect him and their marriage as she waits to see if Plan A OM works out. If plan A doesn't work out then she goes back to plan B until another plan A comes along.
Now if he kicks her cheating a$$ out or leaves himself then maybe she realizes down the road she made a mistake and PEW really is plan A.
When someone changes the terms of a relationship that you do not agree with, the strongest tool is to walk away and never look back.
I know it's scary as h$ll, but IMO it's the only way.
Once again W knows legally you can't kick her out. And I honestly have no where to go. Plus the legal ramifications don't work in my favor. So we literallyvfind ourselves sucking it up until the divorce gets finalized.
Sandi2,
As far as I know my W is having an A with an OM. She has kept it under wraps more lately but I know better. I have not looked into what would be in store if I left as I could not afford to move out right now. Getting my raise a week ago is a first step into being able to afford different possibilities for me in the future. I am focused now in lowering my debt to make a move out possible.
So it has been a few months since my last postings due to the fact that coming to the boards kept me feeling depressed with what is going on in my life and how many others are going through the exact same misery. I am journaling today because I am confused on how I should proceed and what others think about what is currently going on.
So about 2 months ago my W stops going out during the week. Then a few weeks after that she doesn’t want to go out on the weekend either. All the while she has been interacting with me more and more. She calls me several times during the day to talk. She has also been making sure to make physical contact with me at night while we are going to sleep. Usually she will wrap her foot or leg around my foot or leg. Then for the past 2 weeks she has been asking me to come back into bed in the morning to cuddle for a little bit before I go into work.
One morning while we were cuddling she pauses and says that she is sorry for everything she has done and how she feels she has messed everything up. I try my best to validate what she is feeling without pushing the conversation. She then pushes herself tight into me and just puts her arms around me. I honestly will admit that this caught me off guard. She seemed like she would never take any ownership with what she was doing and I have to say that the tone of how she expressed herself seemed to be truly heartfelt.
Since then, I find her choosing to sit or lay close to me or on my lap when we are on the couch. She also wanted to hold my hand while we were playing with our S8. I have been slowly getting a little more intimate with caressing her while we are cuddling and she has been open and receptive to my touch. She really hasn’t initiated and intimate physical contact except for the spooning each other but she doesn’t pull away or try to stop me either.
I have also noticed a major shift in tone and attitude towards me. When my son would get out of hand and aggravated her it always got redirected towards me but now I see her deal with my son when it happens and then be open and calm to me. She doesn’t try and overstep what I am saying to my son and if we get mad for whatever reason we talk about it once we have cooled off instead of letting it stew. I have been letting her take the lead in coming around to me but I have also started mirroring her and initiating similar interactions without going beyond.
We have not had any further relationship discussions as I do not want to bring it up and she has not said anything to the fact that she wants to work on us either. Does anyone have any idea of what she might be thinking or doing at this point? I have been receptive to these changes and I am trying to just figure out if there is anything more I need to her doing at this point.
Does anyone have any idea of what she might be thinking or doing at this point?
PEW,
I know in the past you were not receptive to my opinions but I will give you one more.
IMO this is exactly what happens when we talk about plan B. Her plan A fell through and now on to plan B.
IMO you have to have the hard talk right now and she has to show remorse, get into IC and earn your trust back. If you sweep it under the rug you will be back in the same situation in the future when she finds another plan A.
LH, I agree with needing her to feel remorse and she truly sounded like she was sorry for how things went down. I can also state the fact that he was still texting her all the time and asking her to go out and she was the one saying she couldn't because she was busy. I admit I snooped on her phone when her attitude started changing.
I also admit that I was not ready at the time to for anything more drastic such as separation. I did however, a few weeks after I stopped posting, have a talk with her about looking into going our own ways and not being able to continue like this. I was calm when I talked to her and gave her options as to how we can proceed with the house to make it easier for the transition. I also did not want her using it as an excuse as to why she couldn't leave.
LH, I agree with needing her to feel remorse and she truly sounded like she was sorry for how things went down.
Sorry for what? Did she admit to the affair? If this is not addressed appropriately you will have communicated to her that its ok for her to cheat and when the A doesn't work out she can comeback and apologize and you'll be good with it.
LH, I agree with needing her to feel remorse and she truly sounded like she was sorry for how things went down. I can also state the fact that he was still texting her all the time and asking her to go out and she was the one saying she couldn't because she was busy. I admit I snooped on her phone when her attitude started changing.
LH is still correct... even if she was the one to end Plan A (if it has ended) you are still Plan B... OM doesn't have to be the one to dump her for her to consider you Plan B... no matter what, you are Plan B... and she will find another OM as long as she sees you that way... i had 4 OMs--two EAs and two PAs... almost one right after the other...
--artista
LH and Arista, she never specifically said she was sorry about the affair just what she has done in general. I do know we need to talk about her affair, I guess I am trying to figure out what is the best way to have this talk. I didn't want to damage anything if this was her way of reconnecting but I do see that a talk is needed.
I didn't want to damage anything if this was her way of reconnecting but I do see that a talk is needed.
That's the part you don't get PEW. You're still walking on eggshells. You need to dictate to her what it will take you to give her another chance.
I thought a lot about what you said and your right. I do seem to be walking on eggshells again. I do realize I need to have a talk with her about what has happened and where we go from here. Got to gather my thoughts and just do it.
Got to gather my thoughts and just do it.
Feel free to come to the board for suggestions.
IMO she must show remorse and earn another chance with you.
Good luck PEW!
Thank you for your advice and support. I do respect the advice given on this board. Sometimes I find it difficult to find the strength and courage to do what is needed.
Sometimes I find it difficult to find the strength and courage to do what is needed.
I understand. Once you do and you see the results it will get easier. Let her know that you are the prize and she is lucky that you are willing to give her another chance!
she never specifically said she was sorry about the affair just what she has done in general.
This is what a WW will do, if she can get away with it. Just gives a general, "sorry for everything". She takes no responsibility, and doesn't answer unpleasant questions the H may have. Heck, she doesn't even really repent, and expects to simply rub up against her H and everything will be honky-dory. Apparently, that is fine with you, too, since you are trying to work toward intimacy. What the heck, Pew? Why didn't you open your mouth and tell her, "It's not that simple, now". She caught you off guard? Don't tell me you have not considered what you'd say, should this occasion ever come.
I try my best to validate what she is feeling without pushing the conversation.
It was the perfect time to push the conversation! Instead, you play footsie and act as if she's totally pulled the wool over your eyes.
I am always more suspicious of the WW who suddenly starts showing physical affection to the H she has deceived and betrayed. She is using the physical touching to get you where she wants you. It's called manipulation, Pew. She wants to take everything she's done to you and sweep it under the rug.
LH, I agree with needing her to feel remorse and she truly sounded like she was sorry for how things went down. I can also state the fact that he was still texting her all the time and asking her to go out and she was the one saying she couldn't because she was busy. I admit I snooped on her phone when her attitude started changing.
She is not being genuine, IMHO. Otherwise, why didn't she block OM, or tell him she made a terrible mistake by having an A and to never contact her again. Instead, she's keeping OM
and her H dangling.
Pew, a woman can "sound" sincere when she apologizes. She can even squeeze out a few tears, if necessary. It doesn't mean she's remorseful. If your W was serious, she would ask for your forgiveness and tell you she was willing to do whatever you wanted, in order to save the M.
I thought a lot about what you said and your right. I do seem to be walking on eggshells again. I do realize I need to have a talk with her about what has happened and where we go from here. Got to gather my thoughts and just do it.
That's why it upsets me to see her work you through the physical touching. It messes with your thoughts. As I recall, a few months ago, she started sitting closer to you on the couch while watching TV, and you started thinking about just riding out the A. This time, you start trying to convince yourself that she sounded sincere, or that she seems to be nicer, etc. When a H lets his wayward W back into the MR too easily, he
will regret it. She's done nothing to work to get you back again, or to earn your trust......or anything, actually. She hasn't even ended contact with OM.
I know we kept telling you not to try to talk your way out of this mess, but don't go too far the other direction and let her back in the MR without talking about what you need from her. Do you even know what you need in order to feel safe in the M again?
If she is sincere, then she should end things with the OM......while in your presence. Absolutely no contact with OM ever again for life. Then, she should agree to a transparency plan (that you make). Once you are convinced she is not contacting OM and is being truthful with you, then going to a therapist that deals with couples healing from affairs, should be next on your agenda. I think couples need guidance as they piece their M back together.
However, Pew, I doubt your W is being genuine. I have seen several WW's make this same play, but none of them were authentic. For whatever purpose they had in keeping their M/home/family together, being a real W to the H wasn't a part of it. Once things calmed down, he would be friend-zoned and they would remain in a sexless/loveless M. So, the way your W is doing.....and you wondering if this is some type of baby steps to reconciliation?..... It just doesn't work that way. You can't pretend an affair never happened by not addressing it. And, frankly, that is what every WW would prefer......to just stay where she is and not have to talk about the affair. That way, she doesn't have to take ownership. It's much easier for her to blame everything (including the A) on her H, and feel justified, and twist things around ("I don't know that I can trust you"), and continue playing him for a sap.
Thank you for the smack of reality. You are right that I caved once she started behaving like this. How would you advise handling the much needed conversation since I put myself in this position? I have to admit I do feel like an idiot at this point.
However, Pew, I doubt your W is being genuine. I have seen several WW's make this same play, but none of them were authentic. For whatever purpose they had in keeping their M/home/family together, being a real W to the H wasn't a part of it. Once things calmed down, he would be friend-zoned and they would remain in a sexless/loveless M. So, the way your W is doing.....and you wondering if this is some type of baby steps to reconciliation?..... It just doesn't work that way. You can't pretend an affair never happened by not addressing it. And, frankly, that is what every WW would prefer......to just stay where she is and not have to talk about the affair. That way, she doesn't have to take ownership. It's much easier for her to blame everything (including the A) on her H, and feel justified, and twist things around ("I don't know that I can trust you"), and continue playing him for a sap.
this is exactly how it works with WW... there is nothing new under the sun... but LBH all want to believe their wives or their situations are different... i can think of a few LBHs on the DB boards now who are in this very situation you spelled out... my H and i did some sweeping under the rug during/after my affair, and all this resulted in were false starts...
--artista
Artista, so what transpired during those false starts and what exactly changed for the true reconciliation to start happening?
It's difficult to tell someone how to have a particular discussion, b/c it seldom falls just the way you plan. All I can do is give you an idea of the main direction in the discussion.
First of all, it needs to be about your feelings, Pew. You are always jumping in there to validate her feelings, but this talk needs to be different. And don't walk on eggshells. You are the one that was betrayed.
Second of all, you are giving her an opportunity to come clean and admit to having an affair.......and to be honest about her intentions toward the MR.
Did you say anything else about her apology? Did you just kind of pass it off........as if to say, "Oh, that's okay"?
I would probably start out by telling her you appreciate the fact she offered an apology for "everything", but in order to move forward, you need to know her intentions about the MR. If she doesn't tell you anything, say something like, "You have initiated cuddling and other physical touching. It has been very nice, but I need o know where you stand, b/c I don't want guessing games".
I think she'll tell you that she just wants to pick up where things left off in the relationship, ot that you'll just have to wait & see how things go b/c she doesn't know. She may give some other similar answers, but either way.......it's not good enough. Remember, you are the one in charge of this conversation.......so don't let her throw you.
That's when you tell her that you have been really hurt and in order to heal.......you need her total honesty.
In other words, you are giving her a chance to tell you about the affair. I mean, you've already let her know you are aware of OM. So, if she plays innocent......or if she starts getting angry, you'll know the whole apology was her playing games.
Artista, so what transpired during those false starts and what exactly changed for the true reconciliation to start happening?
what would happen is my H would begin to have certain expectations, and i would pull back... go cold... because i was not committed to my marriage... i liked having it there, on my terms... having him there, on my terms... being able to dabble in the "family" stuff with H and our sons... but still feel free enough to go do my own thing...
he got to where he was indifferent to me... and i liked this at first... i felt like he had his own life, and i had mine... but we were still married... he was not rude or mean to me... all that had passed... but he showed no interest in my life...
a lot of time went by where we were living our own lives... almost two years... there was so much about my life at that time that he knew nothing about... i cannot say what exactly triggered my approaching him about reconciliation... there is a lot that i will post in my thread because it's just too much to put here... but there came a time where i could no longer run away from or sweep away what i was feeling... it was all starting to come out as depression and anxiety... that's when everything hit me... what i was walking away from (my family)... what i was throwing away (my marriage)...
Sandi2, thank you for always taking the time to lend your support. When she said that she was sorry for everything and that she really messed up, it was around 5 in the morning so I was just waking up for work. I replied that I can see why she feels like she messed everything up and then said that we can discuss this at another time. I was definitely not ready at the time to talk about anything dealing with our R. Then I got up to go take a shower.
TBH I can see her trying to play the "she doesn't know" card as that was what she said when I talked to her months ago about physically separating. I like your suggestion for initiating the conversation. It doesn't come off as cold or angry. That is the part I was struggling with. I didn't want it to start off harsh and go downhill from there. I really would like a sincere and productive talk no matter which way it goes.
Artista, thank you for your response. It is funny that you mention depression and anxiety. My W has had issues with anxiety for many years. She has been on and off medication to help with it. When things really started to get bad for us was last year in August which coincidentally was around the same time she stopped taking her meds.
About 7 or 8 weeks ago she was talking to me and telling me how the anxiety was starting to come back strong and that she was thinking about going back on the medication. She asked me what she should do and even asked if I thought it would help with us. All I could tell her was that I couldn't be the one to answer that and she needed to make that decision for herself and figure out what was best.
She wound up going back to the doctor and started taking them about a week after that.