Formerly cheating wife wants to leave marriage, but some folks that it was a bit judgmental.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2739632#Post2739632Stumbled upon this site a few weeks ago and have finally decided to request the assistance of the group. The basic break down is been married to W for 14 years and together almost 17 years. The marriage the last 2 years had become complacent much like most long term marriages. My W went on a cruise the week before Thanksgiving 2016 with her sister and her sisters family. I stayed home with our S13, allowing them to have a so called "sister trip". Needless to say two days into this 4 day trip my W cheated on me with one of her sisters cousins. A man who just happens to be married with 3 children of his own. The remainder of the trip the two kept sneaking around and having sex. Afterwards my W returned back home to TN, while this married man returned to his own family VA. From the moment my wife returned home her behavior had totally changed. Initially I thought nothing of it. But over the next few days, it seemed that she would go out of her way to start arguments with me.
It took another week for me to start to notice that she would be up late at night texting and messaging. Not to mention in the evenings, I would walk into the room while she on the phone. And suddenly she would getup and completely move. Even when talking to mutual friends of ours who apparently she had confessed the cheating on the cruise to. After becoming curious, I found a message on her phone to the AP in question. The message pretty much was her telling him that she had zero regrets about what happened between the two of them. And that she intended to leave this marriage. Regardless if he was still married, she still wanted to [censored] with him, but not at the moment due me becoming more and more curious. Instead of yelling and waking her up. I went through the phone and took pictures of as many text as I could for proof of infidelity.
The next night I confronted her after giving myself time to calm down. And she admitted to cheating on me. W said that who it was with and when wasn't important and wanted a Big D. At the moment she had no clue that I knew who it was already, so I kept that information to myself. Over the next 48 hours, I went through a series of emotions that goes against the 37 rules, which I wish I had known about back in December.
The AP had plans to sneak into town on December 4, but apparently backed out and called off the affair after my W told him that it was to risky. After getting hold of his phone number, I called him telling him to no longer contact my wife or I would make contact with his. He agreed and we left the conversation with that. Three days later, I discover that my W is messaging the AP again. So I decide to contact his W on December 8. Apparently this man is "Serial Cheater" according to his wife who has a habit of sleeping with married women. These women eventually leave their H to be with him, but he never leaves his own W or tends to always return back to her. His W confronts him with some of the evidence I shared with her about the PT. And on December 11 AP calls threatening me about telling his W. I hang up on him initially a couple of times telling him I won't talk with him until he calms down. During this period AP contacts my W telling her that I know his identity and everything else. Fast forward past his yelling AP and myself come to an agreement that he would not contact my W and I wouldn't contact his. AP then told my W not to contact him in any way.
Life was a little rough over the next month and half, W still wanted a Big D. But we were actually starting to become friendly. Also during this time we still have an active SL. But in February AP contacted my W apparently to see how she was doing and to say that things were back on track in his marriage. From what my W tells me they agreed to be friends and have been contacting each other secretly. They act as if its innocent, but I have seen messages of flirting and my W sending sex poetry she has written about him. By this time, I discover the DB site and decide to handle things a bit differently. I had already decided to GAL on my own back in early February, so I was already on the right track in regards to that.
Not sure if it was a mistake or not, but I informed AP W that our spouses were back in contact with each other last week. Told her not to say anything about me telling her. Later that evening, I found out that my W and AP were no longer friends on FB or IG. My W was acting a bit bothered that evening. My guess is that my W is figuring out that when it comes to her AP choosing between her and his W. His W wins every time, while my W is willing to lose everything for "Serial Cheater". Things have been going well, but W still wants a Big D. Part of the issues in our marriage was neglect on both our parts. So the advice to stay away in my opinion would just be the same as usual in her mind. Giving her space has worked, because now she goes out of her way to seek me out. But if I want to show her that I have changed. I seriously need to find away to be more affectionate. There is no issues with her wanting to have sex with me several times a week, but if I want to avoid a Big D, there has to be other forms of PT. Welcoming all advice.
I want to say that I didnt mean to offend you earlier, if I did. My point was not to call you out for having these opinions and saying it's a terrible thing. I get that there is sometimes a need to vent, especially when we hear or read things that are untrue, exaggerated or just cruel from the WS. This IS a safe place to do it, and I, for one, am not judging you one way or another.
My point was more to you to have a chance to reflect on the words. You said:
I'm not going to around telling my W that she lucky to have me, because nobody else wants an overweight woman.
If theres one thing Ive learned, it isnt about words, it's about actions. If you THINK that shes lucky to have you or if you ACT like you arent attracted to her, it makes you seem self-righteous, arrogant, entitles, or any other number of adjectives. If she can sense these opinions in you (even non-verbally), then it could lead her to feel or act any other number of ways.
Im not saying it's your fault for the affair. Thats on her and her choices. What I am saying is that if she felt less attractive or something, it could have been an atmosphere where she sought that attention or desire from whoever.
This is a place to learn and grow. One other thing Ive learned is that if someone says something that stings, you should take that opportunity to look at why. Usually it's because theres some truth to it.
This has nothing to do with stinging. My issue is that people are bringing up something that isn't an issue. When I have actual issues that I'm dealing with and trying to get addressed. Her not getting attention from me didn't involve weight. Like I said, I vented. Prayed about the venting and what she said about me. And kept it moving. I wasn't even thinking about it until people decided to make it more than what its was.
I'm not going to answer the same thing numerous times. For the last time, I don't think that she is lucky to have me, because of her weight and past issues. And I don't act like it. My issue with her was treating me like was less than. When I have been there through it all with her. Even when family had abandoned her and didn't give a damn. I'm not demanding a thank you. I'm her H and that's my duty to do so. But I don't deserve to deal with disrespect. I've already addressed how me and my W got to this point. And if she feels that her weight is an issue for me, then its in her head. And not based on what I've done.
And who knows that might be the case with her. Because apparently I'm being judged by my W on some issues that are in her head that I have never said. But yet I'm wrong, because she thinks that I am thinking of certain things. When I haven't. And I believe that she is starting to realize that through conversations we've had of late. I just feel that there is no point in addressing a nonissue here any further. And people are somehow missing the issue that I need addressed at this very moment. No hard feelings at all. But I've learned my lesson to no longer vent. I'll just keep it in my journal. Just going to stick with stuff that keeps things going in the right direction.
I have a question in regards in being secretive to where I am going to GAL. My W whenever she leaves tell me where she is heading. And if ahe deviates from the plan or running late will call and let me know. So when she asks where I'm heading I try to be very vague. But when she continues to push, I kind of feel that the right thing to do is tell her. Because I don't want her to start acting secretive again based on my actions. So how should handle this situation?
Also I notice that whem I make plans my W tends to have a way of interrupting them or somehow cutting them short. For example this morning, I went to yoga downtown and afterwards did some running. Afterwards I planned to go to the library and finish up the DR book. But during the middle of the run my W called wondering if I was almost finished. So asked her if there was something that she needed. W said that she needed some stuff from Lowe's. She lost her card early in the week, so I have been having to pay for purchases. So I told I would return to the house after my run. Now I could have told her that I would go with her much later after the library. But I'm trying not to be neglectful and appear to put other things ahead of her needs. But I am wondering if I should just make her wait and make her working with my timetable?
Lately I haven't seen any signs that my W has been in contact with the OM. Either that or she has found a much better way of covering her tracks. Her attitude towards me has also been more caring as well. How do you know if the EA has officially ended? I know the OM ended comm unication a few week's ago after I contacted his W. But clearly that didn't means would really come to an end.
Thread
She an addicted, it will take more then a few weeks to break the OM spell on her. Don't let your guard down, your M is still under threat.
Blueboy,
I figured as much. The first time OM ended contact she was upset for a while. And just when things started to seem like the fog was clearing, communication began again. It seems a little different this time, not sure if all the counseling she getting makes a difference. But I definitely won't let my guard down. I definitely need to know what inspired you to just risk everything to keep your W? Not sure if I'm quite bold enough to make that move yet.
Is there a reason not to tell her where you are going? You can still be fairly vague, like "running some errands, then to work out."
What has worked for me is when she asks again, I just repeat what I've just said. She gets the hint, but in your situation, you may need to be overly transparent if you want her to continue to be transparent as well.
Jim,
You make a good point. The rules indicate that I should be vague. But since my W is transparent, I will continue to do the same. Nothing to hide, just trying to come off as mysterious I suppose. Thanks.
I would say just be cautious. It appears from so many of the stories I read on here, that you can't trust her yet. Its her actions not words what would have any real meaning and even then you would still have to be cautious. Keep doing what you are doing and do not read too much into anything yet.
I hear what your saying. Been focusing on GAL. Plan on stepping it up going to two events planned this week. And spending time with S13. Actually got S13 to enjoy hiking. Though to be honest, I think just enjoys spending time with me. This kid likes to compete with everything. Which reminds how I always did the same with my own father at that age.
Pretty sure in S13 mind everything is back on track with his parents. Probably just assumes everything got weird in December and somehow we worked it all out. Finding this site and another with the same basic concept definitely helped me to make the moves to at least bring peace to my household.
Tread, responding from 180s thread so as not to hijack. I think this is the link you are looking for on pursuit and distance:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574.I'm not an expert and am in the same place as you. Here's what I have done about the 180 and being distant. I am still giving him his distance, but when he does reach out I am much more upbeat and positive in how I respond. Before I was more perfunctory. He has been reaching out a lot more lately (not all good) but I think that is more a function of where he is in his cycle rather than anything I'm doing, but who knows. We have to experiment right?
In a talk he initiated this weekend I also expressly told him that because he was the one who chose to exit the relationship and has been unkind that he needs to understand that he will be initiating anything that happens between us (he was expressing anger about not knowing about things going on that he never asked me about). To top it off I also told him I was not going to have any conversations with him in which he is not looking me in the eye. I'm sick to death of those shark eyes and feet stares. I was able to do this because I honestly don't care if I ever see or talk to him again. He has no power over me. That is the best way of dealing with limbo I've been able to find.
You make a good point. The rules indicate that I should be vague. But since my W is transparent, I will continue to do the same. Nothing to hide, just trying to come off as mysterious I suppose. Thanks.
If your spouse has ended contact with the OM and is being transparent, you don't have to act as secretive in GAL. If she is genuinely trying to work at reconciling the MR, she could feel it was unfair.
BTW, the "rules" were not really designed for couples who are in the "piecing" stage of their MR. In other words, when the spouse is remorseful; has accepted responsibility for their behavior; wants to earn your trust; and are committed to do the necessary work in saving the MR, (ended affair and all contact with the AP, stop acting like girls gone wild, cooperating with transparency, going to therapy, etc), then you will be in the piecing stage.
. However, there are
some rules that could still be used, when necessary.
Some LBS's are so eager to get to piecing that they bypass some of these things I've mentioned. Piecing is very hard work, so you had better have those other issues fixes before considering yourself as piecing.
P.S. I'm not saying you were considering yourself piecing, Thread. Just wanted to throw that in here while I was thinking about it.
Sandi2,
Thanks for the heads up on piecing. Don't really see things heading in that direction anytime soon. Haven't really seen any trace of OM. Not really taking that to mean anything at the moment because they could easily get back in contact by weeks end. But was just wondering what new steps to take or what's currently going on in the mind of WW? Going to continue to step up GAL.
OwnIt,
Thanks for finding that link for me.
I was feeling a little too soft earlier. But I am feeling much better now in regards to DB'ing. Especially after reading a few threads this morning. Found out yesterday that W had been texting someone under the name Anonymous. I wasn't snooping, but W had accidently left the phone open when she ran off to the bathroom(a long story within itself). There wasn't any messages sent, but clearly she was about to start messaging, but got interrupting when I walked up to the table. Not sure if this is OM or a new local OM.
So my dilemma was whether I should confront W about it. And decided to wait 24 hours to weigh my options. After about 10 hours, I decided to let the issue go. Figured things were going well with us over the last couple of weeks. So I didn't want to rock the boat over an issue that would have led to an argument that wouldn't have gone anywhere. Not sure if this passive move is what's best. But I'm going to live with this decision for now.
Tread, just remember the OM is a symptom. You have to cure the disease for the symptoms to go away. Ignore it completely. No mention.
OwnIt,
Ignoring these things have been the hardest part of my journey. I was raised to ignore all types of disrespect, so I have literally had to retrain my whole thought process. A little difficult at first. But now its become extremely easy. I question myself on certain things on occasion. But surprisingly I'm doing well and have seen the results of it. My parents and my siblings think I done went crazy with this new attitude...lol
As you all know Mother's Day is approaching this weekend. And I was wondering if I should bother getting anything for my WW? Also her birthday is the week after that. So I'm wondering if I should bother doing anything for her on that day as well. Planned on doing something originally. But last night I told her that she was beautiful. And apparently W says that the look I gave while saying that was no longer applicable. Since my role as H was no longer the same to her. So I'm wondering if no longer applicable also applies to cards and gifts as well?
Tread, maybe Sandy will have a different view of how you treat women in these situations, but I would do nothing. For Father's Day and perhaps his birthday I will just have the kids write him a card (if they will). He fired me as his wife. I don't owe him anything and I certainly don't want him to think I am pursuing him. Perhaps these little reminders will wake her up to what it means to have no Tread in her life.
OwnIt,
I seriously thought about it. For Valentines Day, W says she appreciated what I had done. But yet contacted OM earlier that day who didn't even send $0.99 card. Lesson learned on my part. The only reason I was considering doing something, because my fault in the MR was being neglectful. Even though I always stepped up on birthday's and holidays. I didn't want to appear to be going down the neglectful path again. But I don't want to appear to be pursuing as well. This is my dilemma.
Perhaps then a smaller effort is in order. A text or email one liner and leave it at that. You noted it, but didn't use it as an opportunity to pursue.
Probably will just give a cheap acknowledging the day. And then head out of town to spend the day with my own mother instead for the first time in 17 years. Every year I take my W and MIL to breakfast or dinner. W claims that she wants to be alone, then this would be a small taste of what she would be missing. Not trying to be vindictive, but wouldn't this be considered detaching?
I'm in the same situation... birthday, Mother's Day and anniversary withing 2 weeks of each other. I'm not getting anything, just like she got me nothing for my birthday.
...but wouldn't this be considered detaching?
Tread,
In my opinion, if you're thinking about detaching, then you're probably not detaching.
If that was what she is asking for then you would be listening to what she wants and giving her the space she desires. Maybe she will get a taste of reality. Praying for the best for you.
Just got done discussing this with a couple of my buddies. They think W will have an expectation for getting something for Mothers Day and her Birthday. So I should avoid kicking the hornets nest, since everything is going well.
Doodler, not really sure what is detaching and what is considered the cordial thing to do with the woman still sleeping next to you at night? If she had moved out, then this would all be simple. But I have W who is says one thing, but actions say different.
PEW, I was thinking taste of reality as well. At first she wanted space. But now she's emailing invites as work to events she wants us to attend. I haven't hear the word divorce in over a month. And nothing else about her needing space in just as long. I'm basically basing my choices off of old info. That may not be relevant in her mind at this point.
Only you can do what you feel is best for your situation.
I know that were not supposed to spy on our WW. But clearly the level of trust we have for them is somewhat low. So how are we supposed to handle them when we know they're likely planning and plotting behind our backs? Especially financially or in the legal sense.
I know that were not supposed to spy on our WW. But clearly the level of trust we have for them is somewhat low. So how are we supposed to handle them when we know they're likely planning and plotting behind our backs? Especially financially or in the legal sense.
From a legal perspective, you best obtain all the information you can to protect yourself. That is somewhat different than spying on emails/text messages.
LITB,
I've made it a point to save all the initial information proving there was A to begin with. Text/messages and even copies of the phone records every month since November 2016. I make it a point not to look at who's contacting her. But I save that staff just in case we end up in front of lawyers.
Alright everyone, just wondering how I should proceed from this point. Been doing well with my 180s and GAL. And my W has gone from demanding time alone to finding me and initiating conversations. And has shown signs of returning back to her old self.
Haven't really seen any signs of communication with OM. And my W is back to texting and emailing me at work or randomly throughout the day. Calling to talk, asking for advice. I'm back to being the first person she goes to for advice or whatever else. Just earlier she talked with me in the living room for two and half hours, while I listened. There has been no talk of BD in almost two months. But she hasn't mentioned wanting to work on the MR either.
So I'm wondering do I need to just stick with what I'm doing or try adding something else to the mix? Right now I feel like were great friends with benefits. Which has always been our foundation. We were good friends before we started dating. So it feels like were back at the beginning of our relationship. But I don't want to risk being stuck as friends either.
Any advice on the above would very much be appreciated.
Wife hasn't mentioned getting a BD in months. And at the moment our MR seems too be in a holding pattern. I know that I am not supposed go bring up the relationship. But if W doesn't, then what? I could really use some advice. Especially from Sandi on this one.
Having a dilemma when it comes to 180s and pursuing. A 180 for me in my MR would actually be me giving my W more attention and affection. And trying to be more intimate. But in the thread in regards to pursuit. I'm supposed to not really give my W any attention. But to my W this would come off like business as usual. So action would someone in my sitch take? I want to get to the point where I can at least try to hold my W hand. But I don't want to push the issue. But were going on 6 months of no intimacy other than sex. And even that's starting to not be so frequent. Her issue in the MR was me not asking for sex more. But me asking for it more falls under pursuing.
Tread. It DOES seem you and I have some similarities. I am in the same boat as to being conflicted between detaching and showing more intimacy. My approach has been to let her guide the process. So when she is in tears and asks for these things I give her a hug. But it's incredibly hard.
Tobias,
And that's where the issue for me comes in. When my W clearly needs comforting, I'm there for her. But my W wanted me to take the lead more in the intimacy department. But now she just doesn't care. So my 180 is to initiate more intimacy. Which contradicts the advice given on the site. I don't want to attempt to rub her feet after a hard day at the office and get shut down. Which might end up setting my efforts back.
Just an update on my sitch. MR is still in a state of limbo in my eyes. About to hit 6 months since BB and haven't heard the word divorce since March. No signs of the OM in the picture at this point. If you read my last few post, I'm still trying to figure out how to proceed in regards to 180s and pursuing. Since in my eyes for my sitch they contradict each other.
So I decided to ask W if she wanted to go out to a local art gallery this evening. She said yes, but the problem is that she wanted to bring S13 as well. Not sure if that was her just wanting to include S13 since he's into art or just intentionally blocking the opportunity for me to get her alone?
Hi Tread,
Be careful trying to interpret her actions. You're likely to be wrong. You could ask her out for a drink? Then she couldn't invite your son.
What's the rush to make a move? Can you wait for her to pursue you? Then you would be more sure. Keep being you. Be the person she'd be a fool to pass up.
I feel for you in your situation. I'm very confused in mine right now. OM may be out of the picture but I cannot tell. I'm doing more waiting in limbo and trying to stay focused on me and my kids. When I allow myself to become obsessed with what my W is doing it just breeds pain within me.
resolut,
S13 didn't want to attend the gallery with us, so we went alone. Nothing big, but it was nice to just talk about art and be grown. There's no rush to make a move. But part of my 180 would be to show more affection and to make a move. Which kinds of contradicts the whole no pursuing rule. By not pursuing my W would look at this sitch as business as usual. So right now, I'm doing the 180 changes and trying to balance some light pursuing. If that makes any sense. W has checked in on me when I have pulled away from her. But that tends to just makes her wonder what I am doing or may lead to sex. But not the romance stuff like holding hands or kissing. And still no word on wanting to remain in the MR.
Alright I seriously need some advice here. This evening basically just told my W that I need the master bedroom to myself. She gave me a strange look and then left to sleep somewhere else. Just as I thought things were getting better, I overhear a conversation with my W and her sister talking about bad me. Apparently my W was startled earlier when I walked into the office. The way she acted, she was likely doing dirt. But I walked off and told her to keep doing what your doing. My guess is that my sister in law has no idea of the extent on my W waywardness. She also talked about how she was looking forward to dating other men.
I seriously felt like walking into the middle of the conversation and telling her about yourself, followed by me packing her bags. But I chose to keep it all to myself. When she tried crawling in bed with me tonight, I basically told her that need to be alone tonight. Thinking about doing this the next couple of nights to see her reaction. And if things don't improve, then I'm pushing for talking with her about moving in with her sister instead. I also heard a name of someone that I suspect my W might be messing with a few months back after the OM kicked her to the curb. So I'm trying to remain calm, but everything in me wants to throw her out in the street with all her stuff. And exposing her cheating self to our friends and family who know nothing about this.
I am confused. So, you are trying to get closer, wanting to "lightly pursue" asking her on a date.... then you kick her out of the MBR?
If I am getting this straight, I can see why she might be venting to someone else. You are asking her out on dates then kicking her out of the MBR the next night?
Can you see where this might make her say WTF? You need to stay consistent. She's going to have nothing nice to say about these tactics. And she is going to vent about you to someone. I am not surprised.
Maybe I misread that. You kicked her out after she was talking about you to SIL?
I didn't kick her out. Just told her that I wanted to be in the room alone last night. But this was after she was talking to SIL. Her behavior was completely different this morning being friendly and making me breakfast. Either she is crazy or being fake. My guess is being being fake.
My father who apparently can predict my W behavior suggest that she just wants to be out there dating. And suggest just telling her what I know and then asking her to leave the home. Says I should have some self respect by not tolerating this behavior. I would disagree with him, but based on some of the opinions I've heard on this board it might be time for her to experience loss.
Hi Tread,
If she is openly discussing dating that is pretty clear that she has checked out of the marriage. I think you are right to push her out. I can understand your ambivalence but at the same time that type of attitude on her part is not that far off from an A. She doesn't respect you or the MR.
I've got to say, I agree with your father.
Just make sure you have a plan or an arrangement in case she refuses to leave the house.
W already had an A with her sisters married cousin (they have different fathers). Pretty my SIL still has no clue about it. Seriously thinking about sitting them both down and talking about that before suggesting that my W goes off to live with her.
Alright everyone, just returned from IC and it was suggested that I ask W for a separation if she isn't willing to work on the MR at this point. At this point, I have no clue if she is contacting other men or not. But the concern is that my W talking bad behind my back to people. And then smiling in my face at home will somehow cause me to get upset and backtrack. I discussed this with my W best friend and he suggested that it was time to separate and file for a BD myself. Says he known her since they were 9 years old and she basically wants to be out screwing other men. Apparently my W told him quite a bit before he got fed up and stopped talking to her.
His suggestion based on their past is that its going to take me filing or signing those final papers to make her realise the mistakes she's making. Friend also stated that she has never listened to his advice, even though he has proven to be right countless times. So he applauds me for my efforts, but he already knows what needs to be done. W knows she is dead wrong, but has to fall on her face to finally get it. And to be honest, I knew this for myself. But was hoping, praying and DB'ing that it wouldn't have to come to this. So my question is should I take this advice or continue on the path on limbo?
Hi Tread,
Interesting your IC suggested you should separate. I don't believe mine has given me specific advice and only walked me through my own discernment.
Still though you're ambivalent like me. Some on here say that you will just know when it's time. I don't feel that way yet myself although I have no hope. Take advantage though of your ability to talk to others. The only person I have to talk to is my IC.
If you don't really want a divorce though then there's no reason to discuss it. Don't give it legs.
Keep posting.
Hey resolut,
I really don't want a BD. But at this point, she has noticed all the changes and seems to be disrespectful behind my back. But in my face, its like were a normal married couple without the intimacy. But we still have sex on occasion. DR book says give it even more time. But IC says that you need to ask her to work on the MR at this point or ask her to leave. And several close friends of ours are strongly suggesting that I do the same. I just don't want my W to get so far out there, that I don't want the woman that she ends up becoming. Who really wants an S who just decides to go spreading their legs for just anybody. Not sure if that is happening for sure. But I don't want that in a S.
Your WW is getting the best of both worlds, she's getting the excitement of meeting new people romantically, and is getting the "family time" when nothing else going on, and she's still getting sex from you when she wants it.
You don't have to go straight to D if that's not what you want, but you may want to get a place to yourself (you or her move out), cut most communication out and all physical contact, and find your happiness. Once you are in a place where you are happy on your own, you'll have a better idea if you want to go back and put in the work to piece, and by then you'll know where she stands.
while your finding yourself/happiness, she will be doing the same, and her actions will show you if she is someone you want as your W, or if she is someone you couldn't be happy with.
Just had a big update today. This week I'm out of town for work. But before I left, I found myself discuss to my W about this limbo status we are in. Told her that I wanted to work on our MR and of she could communicate with me on what's going on in her head, it would help so much. Once again, nothing but attitude and her saying that she doesn't have to talk with me about anything. And also that we want two different things. She wants to be alone.
So I suggested that perhaps it was a good idea to separate so she could get that space if she isn't willing to move forward, because I no longer want to live like this. W tried saying that she didn't want to leave. But I continued to remind her that months ago she claimed to not wanting to be here. So I told that I wouldn't hold her back. I asked W to take this week to think about moving in with her sister or whether she wanted to make this MR work.
I finished by kissing her on the forehead, telling her that I loved her and simply walked off. W just sat there clearly stunned and in silence. During this time I am gone. I am making a serious point to detach and enjoying the comforts of this hotel. And have fun with the people I'm training with. No contact, unless she makes an effort to call in regards to actually wanting to know what's going on with me here. Any call to home will be solely for the purpose of speaking with S13.
Felt nervous afterwards, but I am starting to feel better about the decision. Hopefully this will serve as a wake upon call. The bad influence is still in town for another week before leaving to move with her H. And she was supposed to stop by the house after I left. So hopefully she isn't dropping any bad advice.
Tread, I also took a big step this evening toward ending limbo. Right now it feels great. I am sure the tears and fears will come later, but honestly limbo is the worst.
So this morning my wife posted one word as a Facebook status 'motivated'. Believe I may have inspired my WW to leave the MR. Sure it didn't help that the cheating bad influence came by the house after I left. And conveniently one of the guys she cheated on me with and pushed for her to leave me liked the Facebook post. My guess is that she talked to him last night as well.
Tread,
I know this isn't an easy process and part of me thinks I should have stayed my course instead of pushing it for a month. I am wanting to see if her behavior changes or if it is more of the same. I am still prepared to leave and this will go along with my initial time frame. Hoping for the best but expecting nothing. I hope your situation improves. The limbo stage just [censored] the life out of you and something has to give. Maybe physical separation is the wake up call they need. Who knows but I do know that once I can physically remove myself from the drama, I will be able to better put this behind me. I wish you all the luck. My prayers are with you.
PEW,
Thanks for the encouragement. My emotions were all over the place this morning. But I'm once again feeling good about my decision. Hoping this week away will do some good. She can can try to sell the unhappy story. But I have always been there and supportive. And she knows this. That's why she at least wants to maintain a friendship. Why would you want to be friends with someone so bad? Unless you wanted to keep them close for a number of different reasons.
Ugh. "Bad influences" are just... bad. My WW has a bff who is like the worst influence possible. WW herself (three affairs while married to my own best friend), extremely jaded view on marriage, runs in same circle of friends and hangs out at same bar as the OM in my sitch, has been a direct liaison and enabler in the past for my W and OM, "girls gone wild" attitude, etc. And my W's best friend since they were like 18, so you can say no ill about her. W grew apart from her for a few years while we are married, but they are tight as tight can be right now, and it is NOT helping my sitch AT ALL. Sometimes I feel like I am the only one on my side, here.
Just trying to take it a day at a time. Can't wait for the bad influence to leave town for good. Hoping and praying that W will have a change of heart.
Just an update. I haven't heard from W in three days since I left for this work trip. Not sure what her attitude will be once I return home 2 days from now. Kind of detachingwas hoping that she would realize that life without me might be worse off. But clearly she has been spending these days messaging OM.
So for this detach might not help me out. But I am wondering if I should continue with my 180s as I return home. Seriously having the feeling of I have made things worse by speaking with her.
Seriously having the feeling of I have made things worse by speaking with her.
Don't beat yourself up. You drew a boundary, that you can't live like that. How can that make things anything other than better, if you stick by your boundary?
Hang in there.
If your W is having an affair, it doesn't matter what you do or don't do in my opinion.
You are the bad guy in her eyes and no matter what you do or say (or don't do or say) will be demonized by her.
If you give her space, she will say you don't give a damn about her.
If you try to open the doors of communication, she will say you are harrassing her.
You are in a no-win situation as long as OM is involved.
I would maintain NC.
Well W and I had a long 3 hour talk in regards to our MR. And needless to say we are on our way to BD. I sat there and listened as my W berated me, my family and the problems in our MR. Now she did state that she recognised all the changes in me. But claimed it wasn't enough, because it didn't really bring up too many romantic feelings. I stated that it was hard to bring up feelings when you won't allow me to do anything to draw up those feelings. Told W your looking for feelings when you have a wall up to me. W acknowledged that she simply didn't want to put herself back out there. And then wanted to know why I wanted her anyways.
So I began going through varies reasons why I wanted her. And everything I said was basically turned against me. Because in W mind those interpreted to her was me controlling her. At this point, I refuse to be with a person who's mommy and daddy issues are so bad. That I have to consider every word that comes out my mouth. We also discussed OM who she claims is just a friend now and that me not wanting him around is me trying to control her. I told her having a man around who threatened my life when your my W is disrespectful and anyone with a since of loyalty would acknowledge that. But apparently my W who claims to love me and that I'm still the most important part of her doesn't see the how that's an issue. That right there made me wonder if I really wanted someone in my life like this, let alone a W with this type of thought process.
Then she claimed to wanting to hear what I thought about everything. So I talked my role in messing up this relationship. And also addressed her role as well. My W admitted that she has flaws, but when I mentioned what those flaws were she denied everyone one of them. So pretty much I was the only one in this conversation who admitted to their mistakes. I brought up all the things that my family has done for us over the years. Which she actually acknowledged were true. And how I have done so much more for her family, while she she openly refused to do things for mine. She got mad, but when I presented her with examples. W admitted that I did do all those things. That's when she admitted that I was a good man and did do a lot of great things in the MR.
That's when I told W, that by the way you tell it I didn't do a thing. And you were so miserable. Nothing but silence at that point. From there I tried to provide solutions in order to get this MR better than what it was. And I asked for her input. She stated that she couldn't stay in a MR where I didn't completely trust her. I informed that I was trying to trust her completely, but its hard when your still contacted the OM. Knowing that his W doesn't like it as well. That got W into another your trying to tell me what to do rant.
Needless to say W ended up saying that she was meeting with a lawyer this week to discuss her options. She refuses to leave the home and that separation is not an option. But it will probably take awhile before we can come up with the funds for a divorce. So at the moment were stuck with each other. Probably will end up selling the home, since neither one of us individually can afford the place. Hoping during that time period W might change her mind. But I at this moment, I'm going to continue with detaching and focusing on S13.
And I'll say again...
Your WW is getting the best of both worlds, she's getting the excitement of meeting new people romantically, and is getting the "family time" when nothing else going on, and she's still getting sex from you when she wants it.
You don't have to go straight to D if that's not what you want, but you mayor want to get a place to yourself (you or her move out), cut most communication out and all physical contact, and find your happiness. Once you are in a place where you are happy on your own, you'll have a better idea if you want to go back and put in the work to piece, and by then you'll know where she stands.
while your finding yourself/happiness, she will be doing the same, and her actions will show you if she is someone you want as your W, or if she is someone you couldn't be happy with.
FYI, conversations like that are hurting your chances of ever reconciling, and she will never admit her faults while wayward..
If your not able to detach (which I wasn't), I suggest you consider moving out , but talk to a lawyer before doing so (I didn't have child custody to consider). NOTHING is harder than in house separation if your not able to detach.
Coconut,
How do you suggest that I address conversation like that when they come up? The lawyer I talked with suggested not leaving the home. So leaving for me is not an option. Hell, I can't afford to live anywhere else. Tried to get W to stay with her sister, since she lives right down the road. But she refuses to leave as well(probably got the same advice i did).
Tread I'm sorry I don't recall all your details off the top of my head, but I do think a 3 hour R talk isn't productive
unless you're discussing how to repair things and moving forward...and even then, I'd break it down into smaller time periods. No one can recall much of a long emotional conversation, so a ton of perhaps valid points are lost anyhow. A lot of what is recalled is what hurts the most.
Sorry
Well W and I had a long 3 hour talk in regards to our MR. And needless to say we are on our way to BD. I sat there and listened as my W berated me, my family and the problems in our MR. Now she did state that she recognised all the changes in me. But claimed it wasn't enough, because it didn't really bring up too many romantic feelings. I stated that it was hard to bring up feelings when you won't allow me to do anything to draw up those feelings. Told W your looking for feelings when you have a wall up to me. W acknowledged that she simply didn't want to put herself back out there.
Sounds like this talk & your w was there to justify, not explore.
All you can do is utter a few mantras to stay on track, which she may recall later. I think it's key to say that "I'm sorry I hurt you. If I had it all to do again, I'd do a lot of things differently."
(^^ this shows that you recognize the need to change AND are in fact changing, so things would be different. But you are not being a doormat or owning all the problems)
Once you sincerely apologize for something in the past, keep the conversation redirected - "as you know, I do regret it. So can we now focus on..."
I personally believe in saying that love is in part, a choice & always will be. It's true and I am so tired of people talking about feelings directing their actions as if feelings land on them out of the blue and THEN they must leave/stay.
We create a lot of our emotions, and we do not have to act on any.
I would table the rest of an "R talk", when it's clear that she's just giving her closing statement - asking for a guilty verdict.
-doesn't see the how that's an issue. That right there made me wonder if I really wanted someone in my life like this, let alone a W with this type of thought process.
the thought process of a WAS - I am told - often but not always - clears up in a few/many years.
That does not mean she will 1) tell you; or 2) do anything about any regrets or revisions of the m.
Nor does it mean she won't have already moved on, nor does it mean you won't.
But I HOPE and think that their marital revisions - when truly extreme, improve. My h's revisions are so intense that I did not think I was reading the correct pleading. I thought my L sent me the wrong one, it was that distorted.
My guess is that h distorts and substitutes his own version of things and his own narrative at first to protect himself from the law or my anger?? Or what the kids think...but the weird part is I think he believes things he surely should not. Things I can prove are false.
Not much we can do about someone who tells you black is white and the coffee cup in your hand is actually a shirt.
Anyhow, we have no control over the thoughts in their heads...and probably need to control our own better.
Sorry
Then she claimed to wanting to hear what I thought about everything. So I talked my role in messing up this relationship. And also addressed her role as well. My W admitted that she has flaws, but when I mentioned what those flaws were she denied everyone one of them.
I don't think it's our job to list their flaws. We can mention events or actions that hurt US, not that make them bad people. Of course it aroused a defensive posture on her part. This list of her flaws could not possibly have helped you or the situation.
So pretty much I was the only one in this conversation who admitted to their mistakes.
She'd have known that without you listing her flaws. And it undermines all the reasons why you want to remain m. Do you get what I mean?
I brought up all the things that my family has done for us over the years. Which she actually acknowledged were true. And how I have done so much more for her family, while she she openly refused to do things for mine.
So you got out your scorecard, and this just never helps. First off, it's a record of wrongs/rights that don't belong in a marriage.
Second, our spouses have their own scorecards and way of measuring & keeping track, and on their scorecards, we are not ahead. It's a bad idea to bring up the past this way as it forces them to do the same and then, we lose.
She got mad, but when I presented her with examples. W admitted that I did do all those things. That's when she admitted that I was a good man and did do a lot of great things in the MR.
Just thank her for acknowledging your actions but please don't bring them up again. The rest of this below is just unproductive.
That's when I told W, that by the way you tell it I didn't do a thing. And you were so miserable.
Arguments like this ^^^force her to cement that idea or her misery OR admit being wrong...so she chose to confirm her belief that she was miserable - because of You...
Nothing but silence at that point. From there I tried to provide solutions in order to get this MR better than what it was. And I asked for her input. She stated that she couldn't stay in a MR where I didn't completely trust her. I informed that I was trying to trust her completely, but its hard when your still contacted the OM. Knowing that his W doesn't like it as well. That got W into another your trying to tell me what to do rant.
^^^ this was all a battle between who had the most points or demerits. Not a battle either can win. Much more like lawyers arguing opposing views for the non existent jury.
You want to build from common ground, not pick each other apart. Sounds painful.
Needless to say W ended up saying that she was meeting with a lawyer this week to discuss her options. She refuses to leave the home and that separation is not an option. But it will probably take awhile before we can come up with the funds for a divorce. So at the moment were stuck with each other. Probably will end up selling the home, since neither one of us individually can afford the place. Hoping during that time period W might change her mind. But I at this moment, I'm going to continue with detaching and focusing on S13.
I hope you can learn to detach. No R talk for over 10 minutes, and even then I'd just stay on message. You would do things differently, it can be better, you have history and a son, and then drink a STFU smoothie & GAL to detach.
Lose the scorecard b/c on hers, you lose anyhow.
IMO, scorecards in a marriage are not constructive, ever.
Use your time wisely.
Become a man only a fool would leave.
Ok, if L says not to move out, then staying for daughter is most important.
How do you handle those conversations? First of all, don't have them. Validate her feelings and don't drag out the conversation. I suggest you spend as much time away from the house as possible, take your D places, and when she's not around, just go out.
25yearsmlc,
Thanks for the advice. I really didn't want to go there with the score card. But it got to the point where I got tired of her degrading my parents as if they hadn't done more for us, than any member of her family combined. My point was to simply remind her that they aren't what she is claiming them to be. But I see what your saying about how W may have taken it.
I initially wanted a 20 minute conversation and I allowed it to go longer, just trying to acknowledge and validate the reasons why she wanted to leave the MR. But a lot of time was me enduring getting yelled at and even hit one time. And your right about listing her flaws being a bad idea. I brought up examples, but it just led to "Then why do you want me." talk. So I see where your coming from.
Literally I was destroyed by my W by trying to say all the right things. W even complained about the things I was doing to work on this relationship. Some of the things she like and other things got on her nerves. That's when I told her that I wish she would have communicated those things with me sooner. Which has been a huge problem in our MR.
Coconut,
I'm about to take S13 out skating this afternoon. And your right, I'm going to continue staying away from the house as possible.
I sat there and listened as my W berated me, my family and the problems in our MR. Now she did state that she recognised all the changes in me. But claimed it wasn't enough, because it didn't really bring up too many romantic feelings.
^^THIS is why Michele says no R talks!! It never, ever goes the LBS’s way. It almost always ends up being the WAS’s gripe session, an opportunity to drag out a laundry list of the LBS’s faults. For the WAS it just reaffirms their belief that leaving is the right thing to do. It’s also why MC is a bad idea early on.
I stated that it was hard to bring up feelings when you won't allow me to do anything to draw up those feelings. Told W your looking for feelings when you have a wall up to me.
Don’t argue/ beg/ plead/ explain/ reason/ justify. Just LISTEN and VALIDATE. See this thread for great examples of validation:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566 So I began going through varies reasons why I wanted her. And everything I said was basically turned against me. Because in W mind those interpreted to her was me controlling her.
EXACTLY!!! To her it just looks like “more of the same” behavior. So what would be a future 180 for you on that?
At this point, I refuse to be with a person who's mommy and daddy issues are so bad. That I have to consider every word that comes out my mouth.
Doesn’t sound like mommy/ daddy issues to me, this is pretty typical of a WAS. This is how she sees things, and if you want a chance at R, you need to see things from her perspective. And yes, you DO need to consider EVERY word that comes out of your mouth. Are you familiar with Sandi’s 37 rules? That’s basically what they are- rules for how to act, what to say and what not to say when dealing with a WAS. You broke many of them!
Then she claimed to wanting to hear what I thought about everything. So I talked my role in messing up this relationship. And also addressed her role as well. My W admitted that she has flaws, but when I mentioned what those flaws were she denied everyone one of them. So pretty much I was the only one in this conversation who admitted to their mistakes. I brought up all the things that my family has done for us over the years. Which she actually acknowledged were true. And how I have done so much more for her family, while she she openly refused to do things for mine. She got mad, but when I presented her with examples. W admitted that I did do all those things. That's when she admitted that I was a good man and did do a lot of great things in the MR.
I’m guessing this too is “more of the same” behavior for you. If you say “I did x, y and z wrong, but here’s a laundry list of everything YOU did wrong” then how do you expect her to receive that? It’s your job to own what YOU did wrong and let HER own what SHE did wrong, if she chooses to do so (which most WAS's will not do with the LBS). What you did is controlling behavior even though I know you don’t see it that way. But she does.
But I at this moment, I'm going to continue with detaching and focusing on S13.
Honestly if you’re having these type of R convos with your W then I’m pretty sure you haven’t even started detaching. It’s tough when you’re under the same roof, but you’ve got to figure out how to give her time and space. And the R talks have got to stop, I hope you realize they’re just making your sitch worse.
AnotherStander,
Not sure if you have been keeping up. That qas thw dirst R talk in months. But I have been following the rules since I started months ago. This talk was due and also I'm pretty sure W was with OM on her work trip to DC last month. I started detaching last week. The problem I'm facing is that W is constantly in my face. She only wants time and space when she is doing something that I wouldn't approve.
But I still make it a point to 180 and GAL. Just a few minutes ago, she was telling me about how her boss was talking about wanting to promote her at work. Especially since she did good job representing the company on the very trip I'm sure she met up with OM at. So I stood up in the middle of the talk and said I need to cut the yard before it gets dark.
Not sure if that wasn't the right thing to do. But I wasn't in the mood to hear about her making more money, while abandoning this family to chase after someone else's husband. Half tempted to call her HR department and tell them that she having an affair using company time and resources.
Also I forgot to mention that S13 asked W if she cheated on me last Thursday when I was out of town. Surprisingly she told him the truth, which caused him to go off on his mother. That was followed by a bunch of questions that W refused to answer. This only pissed him off more, which led him to storm off into his room. One would think that this would be a wake up call for her. Especially considering that he is demanding to know who the OM is. And I know S13 is expecting me to answer all or at least some of his questions. W wants me not to answer anything, but to calm him. This is clearly for her sake. But to be honest, I have no issue with telling S13 that his mother was having an affair with his Aunt's married cousin. Any opinions on this matter would be appreciated.
Also as far validating my W. I did that heavily, even to the point of sending W a text the next day about me hearing everything she said and admitting that she was right. And included a sincere apology as well. W said that she very much appreciated the apology.
But a serious question that I have for the group is following Sandi's 37 rules. Because even though you follow these rules, Sandi herself admits that you have to be firm with the WW or she will run over you. I've heard people mention that you should step up and not end up getting friend zoned. So what's the deal?
Tread,
I think your son has a lot to process right now, I do not see any benefit in him finding out its with someone he knows.. That is a lot for a kid to handle.
Also, if he does approach you, I would not bash your WW, I would let him know that you and his mother were having marital issues, and his mother saw a way to escape the issues / hurt. That you and your W's marriage is not a reflection of him, and that for now you all just need to take time and process what is going on, and try and find the path that brings everyone the most happiness in the future.
This is his mother, I highly recommend not trying to get even with her by demonizing her to son.
Coconut,
Thanks for the advice. Talk with the IC today and she says that there should be no problem with me revealing the identity of OM. Especially if there is a chance of W trying to bring him around OM one day acting like them getting together was just some random thing. But I will seriously take your advice on not bashing him to his mother. Even though her actions clearly show that she doesn't give a crap about either of us over OM.
S13 only met this guy once as the A was starting and W was parading us around his family as if we were all going to be the best of friends. Unless I showed S13 a picture of this guy and his family on FB, he likely wouldn't remember who this guy was. Especially since he lives in another state.
let me ask you this.. what good comes out of telling your S "Who" the A partner is?
S13 will know if his mother is trying to be slick and bring OM around. Like myself, S13 despises someone making him look like a fool. Plus W might need to know that there are consequences for her actions. I seriously was considering not telling S13. But after discovering that she more than likely met up with OM in D.C. last month. Which she has no clue that I am aware of. It might seriously be time for her to experience some consequences for her actions. Because clearly nothing else is sinking into that head of hers. Haven't made a decision yet, but I'm tired if covering for her.
I have a son who just turned 14. He cannot stand any discussion of my H period. Not good things, nothing. My 17 yo daughter on the other hand will frequently bring him up, his posts on FB, wonder what is going on his head, etc.
I wouldn't tell your son. If he finds out in the course of things, fine. But let him keep as much of his innocence for as long as he can. No matter how you feel about her. That is his mother. I'm sure if she brings a strange man around and is giddy and happy your 13 yo will figure out exactly what is going on.
I seriously was considering not telling S13. But after discovering that she more than likely met up with OM in D.C. last month. It might seriously be time for her to experience some consequences for her actions.
That right there is using your son as a weapon, that disgusts me.
Ps- your son getting upset with her isn't going to change her mind.
I refused to tell my son, even when he questioned why I knifed my WW tires (she was getting ready to go on a date, not DB but what I did), I told him only that I had my reasons but I wouldn't involve him in what's going on between us.
So he asked her, she told him because I was upset about a friend she had... Did he figure out, probably, but if he didn't I'm sure he looked down on my actions. But fact is I shouldn't of done it, I knew it, and I still didn't consider discussing with him to make me look better, it's his mom.
S13 will know if his mother is trying to be slick and bring OM around. Like myself, S13 despises someone making him look like a fool.
Now let's think this through.. He's 13, he's going to spend time at moms if separation or D occurs.
Now, instead of doing things with mom and her new boyfriend, he will know it's mom and AP... He will be mad, angry, act out.. But guess what, courts don't take kids away from parents that had an A, so your son will still need to be there, miserably.
Good, I want him to be mad and dislike the man who threatened the life of his father. And if his mother chooses to lay up with a man who threatened me harm, then she will have to deal with the consequences. If a man threatened my father my brothers and I would have tracked that man down. We wouldn't have been cool with him or accepting. And that's a lesson in manhood that I want S13 to learn. Loyalty to family is a big deal in my family. Also the courts will allow to not have to be with W and OM of they he doesn't want to at his age.
You're angry Tread, I get it... Let your anger out on me, but let that anger out before you make decisions that affect your kids. I wish I remembered the screen names of those who told their kids and then regretted it so I could link them for you, but it's been months since I've read them. I do remember one that incited that anger in his child, in fact so angry that the child assaulted his mother.
Then guess what happened, they reconciled, and not only did they have to work on piecing, but they also had to work on the fact that the son hated his mother.
It is your child, your family, your life and you get to make whatever decision you want. But I'm suggesting that it may make things worse, worse for your Son, worse for your sitch, and is not something you should take lightly.
I'll let others speak to the likeliness of a judge preventing your WW from having OM around kids, but my understanding is that is not likely to happen, especially if they move in together.
Whatever you decide, just make that decision with an understanding that your son getting angry at your WW isn't going to make her stop, but will be another barrier to a possible reconciliation.
Coconut,
I'm not upset with you. And seriously get where your coming from. It's going to be awhile before I come to any decision. But I refuse to have OM be around my S13 trying to be slick as if he just showed up in the picture. S13 would hate me if he ever found out I allowed that to happen. W already told him that she cheated, S13 just has no clue who it is.
Good, I want him to be mad and dislike the man who threatened the life of his father. And if his mother chooses to lay up with a man who threatened me harm, then she will have to deal with the consequences.
Tread, back when I was your S's age my mom left my dad and my dad tried to use us kids (and me in particular since I was the oldest) as pawns to get revenge on mom. He told me how awful she was for leaving, how she was sleeping with another man, and had to pay the consequences, etc. etc. A lot of the same stuff I hear you saying. Guess what dude, she was my mom and I loved her like all boys love their moms. My dad doing all that crap just made me look at HIM and wonder who this angry, hateful monster was that replaced the dad I knew. To this day I don't look at him the same, especially now that I know that a lot of the reason that mom left was because of HIS behavior towards her. You're going down a very dark path and YOU are the one that will look bad to your S as a result of it.
I think you may not be giving your son enough credit. If he doesn't know who it was he certainly will feel it's this person.
AnotherStander,
It has nothing to do with revenge. Not trying to get him to hate his mother, he already knows she cheated. But in my family we consider it highly disrespectful to even associate with a man like this under these circumstances. Nothing to do with revenge, but it's a loyalty thing. That's what I have always taught my son. Lile it was taught to me and my siblings by my parents. I want S13 to love his mother, but he also needs to know that her actions are dead wrong. And that you never accept someone like OM.
Tobias,
Personally I don't think OM will ever leave his W. Didn't do it for the other women he cheated on his W with in the past. And my W will be no different. Odds are S13 will never be introduced OM as a boyfriend. W will simply walk around as if they are just friends.
AnotherStander,
It has nothing to do with revenge. Not trying to get him to hate his mother, he already knows she cheated. But in my family we consider it highly disrespectful to even associate with a man like this under these circumstances. Nothing to do with revenge, but it's a loyalty thing. That's what I have always taught my son. Lile it was taught to me and my siblings by my parents. I want S13 to love his mother, but he also needs to know that her actions are dead wrong. And that you never accept someone like OM.
Let me ask you...... what if your S decided not to hate this guy? I hope you wouldn't hold anything against him for doing so.
He's a kid. It's a long very complicated story of my dad leaving my mom. My mom was not mentally well. even though all in the same house until I was 17, my dad pretty much raised me. He left when I was 17, and it was never confirmed nor denied that his wife now of 15 years was his A partner. definitely an EA going at least. And my mom knew. And my mom lashed out at me because I still loved my dad as much as I did before, and I spent time with him and his then GF. I can't begin to tell you what this did to me.
I know you are hurt. My daughter's stepmother is the OW. My D9 actually knows what they did. Doesn't understand it fully, but knows. But she loves her dad and she loves her stepmother. And my hope for my daughter is simply that she is loved and never has to feel guilty of having certain feelings.
Please, please, please, don't use your son to how consequences of your W's actions. one person gets hurt in that and it's your son.
Ginger,
I could never hold it against S13 if he chose go not hate OM. Eventually word will spread and I feel that he should hear it from me than my family rumor. Also my W isn't concerned about his feelings, just what trying to cover her own a**, while doing dirt. He has questions and I'm not sure if I want to fall on the sword for my W who clearly doesn't care enough to stop or at least do a better job of not having this constantly commenting on her social media page.
I know W loves the thrill of risking of sneaking around. And making in comments in front of people who habe no clue about the A. If they knew what I knew they would put two and two together. And they would kick her to the curb as a friend. So does someone like that deserve to have me cover for her? Because if I have no answers for S13, then I end up possibly looking worse than W in this situation.
So that's my dilemma, it's not about revenge or handing out consequences on my part. But this is that little thing called karma. And I warned my W months ago that this would happen. And whether or not I should answer or remain silent all S13 questions.
But in my family we consider it highly disrespectful to even associate with a man like this under these circumstances.
That's not just your family, that's everyone, everywhere. No one considers an affair to be respectful behavior. This isn't something you need to teach your son, he knows it. You've even said that he knows it. It really sounds like you are trying to project your anger and hatred of W and OM into your son. Your son knows the A is wrong, but that does NOT mean he needs to hate his mother. Again I'll say that having lived through it myself, if you keep prodding your son he's more likely to resent you for that than W for the A.
Your posts are full of comments about "loyalty", which I get the impression to you is strictly based on whether someone has an affair or not. I hope you understand that to your wife, loyalty means treating her with love, honor and respect. I went back and pulled a few of your comments out of your posts:
"Romance and sex was at an all-time low last year. I was going through a slight depression last year and didn't even realize it."
"Apparently my wife feels that I stopped trying to get to know her."
" I just was going through the routine of the day. I was functioning, but the relationship was being ignored."
"Complacency was my biggest issue and why the marriage took a wrong turn."
All of the above shows that you were not being loyal to your W. I am certainly not saying that an affair on her part was a proper response to this, I detest affairs just as much as you do. But this is exactly the kind of stuff that leads a woman into an affair, because she is trying to find what she's not getting in the M. You are both being disloyal to each other. DB'ing isn't sitting around and blaming your spouse for everything, it's owning your own failings and doing something about them. It's hard work, that's why we have these forums, to help people get on the right track and stay on it.
So does someone like that deserve to have me cover for her?
But this is that little thing called karma. And I warned my W months ago that this would happen.
In my opinion, you have basically three answers when asked about your wife's affair. For example: "Is mom/W having an affair?"
Answer 1 - Yes.I think this is not a great answer, because it immediately looks like you are trying to win 'favor' or recruit. Nobody is going to be like "oh, thats great" when they hear about someone sleeping around. Nobody is going to take the side of the cheater. Frankly, I cant expect anyone to remain neutral. I believe that to any neutral acquaintance that would be considered friends of you and your wife, this is just not a good path as it only builds animosity towards your W. You talk about karam, but THIS path is not karma - this is you instilling your own justice. Answering in this way, in my opinion, is only done as a way to use your anger as a sword to hurt W.
Answer 2 - No.This is you 'covering it up' as you describe above. This is flat out lying to protect W from herself. You talk about treating WW gently or softly a few posts back and how that relates to the 37 rules. I think this is an extremely weak response because it makes you complicit, and in fact, almost makes it as if you are condoning the affair by hiding it.
Answer 3 - Youll have to talk to W.I believe this is the only right answer. Frankly, her affair is none of anyone else's business, and the more you try to make it your business to be the judge and jury, the more harm it does to everyone in the long run. This is neither exposing nor hiding it. I believe this is absolutely not doing W's job of covering anything up. I just dont see any upside in answering any questions about the A with anything besides this.
AnotherStander,
You apparently think I have had a conversation with S13 already. Which I have not. Right now I'm just figuring out how to address a question that I know is coming. Not trying to make my son hate anyone, but if that happens, then W has to look in the mirror at how her actions caused that. And if S13 is mad at me for not being a better H, then I have to live with that.
Was seriously hoping to avoid this conversation. But my W telling S13 the truth last week changes all that. I have no plans on bringing up the topic, but my son is very mature for his age. And knows that he can come to both his parents with anything.
Kaizen,
Thank you for that answer. It has to be the best one yet. People on here assume that I'm trying throw my W under the bus. But your answer puts me in a position where I don't have to cover for her A. And yet to destroy the efforts I'm trying to make with her.
Alright i have been trying seriously detach. But its gone nowhere due tot he fact that my W is constantly in face. Spent the last two night going out to GAL and a great time. But when I get home, its W sitting or laying next to me on the bed. Telling me about her day or asking me about mine. Living in the same home makes this impossible. If you were looking at us from the outside you would find it hard to believe that we are on the verge of the BD.
I am validating, 180s and GAL. But still she doesn't want to be in the MR. At this point, I am going to give up detaching while were still in the same house. But I will do so whenever I am out of town for training. Which will be every other week over the next four weeks. Maybe that will do something, but its hard to really miss your H who is always there. And my 180 is actually being more attentive to her. But still giving her space.
I have a question for the group. Saved up the phone records like I do every month for legal purposes. And I noticed that my W contacted OM 4 times. On May 17th W got a approved for a company trip to D.C. for May 22nd. That evening she sent OM one text(probably letting him know that she will be in the area). OM just happens to live in VA, which would be a few hours away. W found out on the May 21st, which hotel she would be staying in. Also one text goes out to OM that day(probably informing him of her exact location). W then sends a text out to OM on May 22nd right before heading to the airport. Then W makes a 2 minute call to OM after checking into hotel. Other than telling me that she has arrived. S13 and myself didn't hear from her until about 6:40am in the morning of May 23rd.
All clues point to W using this company trip to meet up with OM. Now I'm trying to figure out, if I should let this go or confront W. The main thing I want to know is why? Every excuse W used for having the A is no longer relevant at this point. But yet after not seeing this guy for months. The first chance W gets, it appears that she plotted and risked everything. Including her job, if they were to find out about this. To sleep with OM again.
Talked with a pastor yesterday who suggested that I tell my W that I know all about her DC trip. Been avoiding that conversation for a few days. But going out of her way to possibly have sex with OM again was my boundary. Going to be a few days until I can get home for this conversation. So any advice on the matter would be helpful.
Tread, just drop it, lose the desire for control (when it comes to W) and start your journey... Shoot, if you want control, walk up to her the next time you see her, look her dead in the eyes and tell her, I'm Done...
Then take your eyes off of her, from that moment on, just tell us about what tread and child is doing..
What Coconut said, X100.
If I've been shaken out of anything since coming to this forum, it is that this is the ONLY WAY to return to the person you love that is trying to get away from you. THEY ARE TRYING TO LEAVE YOU.
Let them go. It's the only thing you will look back on and be proud of-no matter how your marriage turns out.
Coconut,
So your suggestion is to not say anything to W about it at all? I'm all in agreement in starting my journey. Already have made strides in 2017. And have so much more planned. My issue is that W is walking around thinking she got away with something and probably bragging about with OM as if she has me wrapped around her finger.
And I noticed that my W contacted OM 4 times. On May 17th W got a approved for a company trip to D.C. for May 22nd. That evening she sent OM one text(probably letting him know that she will be in the area). OM just happens to live in VA, which would be a few hours away. W found out on the May 21st, which hotel she would be staying in. Also one text goes out to OM that day(probably informing him of her exact location). W then sends a text out to OM on May 22nd right before heading to the airport. Then W makes a 2 minute call to OM after checking into hotel. Other than telling me that she has arrived. S13 and myself didn't hear from her until about 6:40am in the morning of May 23rd.
Have you talked to a L about this or are you just assuming you need this info for "legal purposes"? Because if you're in a no-fault state then it doesn't matter. Regardless, by going through her phone records minute-by-minute you're just torturing yourself. Let it go and start the journey to building a better you.
Now I'm trying to figure out, if I should let this go or confront W.
I wouldn't confront her specifically about your snooping as that'll just look like "more of the same" behavior to her. And besides, she's clearly stated she's on a path to D so her likely response would be "we're getting a D, I can do what I want now." If you wanted to confront her about the A in general, and say something like "I know you're continuing the A and I really do not want you under my roof while you're engaging in that behavior, if you want to live a separate life then go and live it" then I don't think that would be out of line. Legally you can't really force her out but you can certainly make it clear you don't want her there.
The main thing I want to know is why?
Brother, that's one for the ages. We ALL want to know that. I was married 20 years and 19.5 of them were wonderful. 6 months before BD my W told me through tears that I couldn't let anything happen to myself, because she simply couldn't survive without me. 6 months later I got BD'd. It's been over 5 years since BD and I still don't know why. And I'm sure I never will, because she probably doesn't know either. And your W probably can't say why she's doing what she's doing.
I have a question for the group. Saved up the phone records like I do every month for legal purposes. And I noticed that my W contacted OM 4 times. On May 17th W got a approved for a company trip to D.C. for May 22nd. That evening she sent OM one text(probably letting him know that she will be in the area). OM just happens to live in VA, which would be a few hours away. W found out on the May 21st, which hotel she would be staying in. Also one text goes out to OM that day(probably informing him of her exact location). W then sends a text out to OM on May 22nd right before heading to the airport. Then W makes a 2 minute call to OM after checking into hotel. Other than telling me that she has arrived. S13 and myself didn't hear from her until about 6:40am in the morning of May 23rd.
All clues point to W using this company trip to meet up with OM. Now I'm trying to figure out, if I should let this go or confront W. The main thing I want to know is why? Every excuse W used for having the A is no longer relevant at this point. But yet after not seeing this guy for months. The first chance W gets, it appears that she plotted and risked everything. Including her job, if they were to find out about this. To sleep with OM again.
Dude, how is this detaching??? It isn't. She's got you wrapped around her finger and is loving every second of it. Stop doing this today. Stop lamenting your situation and start working on your new life. Instead of you obsessed with her comings and goings, she should be interested in yours. She isn't because you don't have much going on for her to be attracted to. Change that dynamic starting today. Seriously. It will help.
You've established the infidelity for legal purposes, should it be necessary to show it in court. And it might be necessary, as even in some no-fault jurisdictions, adultery is grounds to deny alimony.
So now quit snooping, quit obsessing and follow TxHubby's advice. It may nor may not save your marriage, but it will save you, and it will set you up to start living a great life that you love.
Tread: I'm not totally familiar with your sitch (sorry). From what I know you've already confronted her once about the A/OM. Doing it again will make you sound like a broken record.
Don't do anything drastic and keep your mouth shut.
I've noticed that when W has baited me into old fights or I bring them up - she get's this look of self righteousness on her face or a "here we go again".
Listen to everyone here - make small consistent changes - you will feel great.
I took on everything - home renovations, cooking, baking, physical fitness, I bought a motorcycle. Bad news, 18 months in - still no closer to reconciling. Good News - I'm ready for D if that's what's in the cards.
TxHubby,
Good point. At this point it's time to seriously detach. The GAL I do now has helped and also has gained her attention. But I need to do more for myself. Any suggestions on handling a W who has no intent on leaving the home?
AnotherStander,
A lawyer gave me that advice early when the A first started, but I do have more than enough evidence at this point and Will stop. But I am considering confronting W and her sister, letting them both know that I know she still on contact with OM. Since OM is her sisters cousin.
Bigybiz,
Not sure if I should completely keep my mouth shut. But my W has said here we go again every time I catch her. Using that as a deflection to throw off the conve rsation from her getting caught doing dirt. But I may just keep it at I know that your still having a PA with OM.
TxHubby,
Good point. At this point it's time to seriously detach. The GAL I do now has helped and also has gained her attention. But I need to do more for myself. Any suggestions on handling a W who has no intent on leaving the home?
AnotherStander,
A lawyer gave me that advice early when the A first started, but I do have more than enough evidence at this point and Will stop. But I am considering confronting W and her sister, letting them both know that I know she still on contact with OM. Since OM is her sisters cousin.
Bigybiz,
Not sure if I should completely keep my mouth shut. But my W has said here we go again every time I catch her. Using that as a deflection to throw off the conve rsation from her getting caught doing dirt. But I may just keep it at I know that your still having a PA with OM.
You don't really want her to leave the home unless you're done and want to D. If not then it's good to give her a front row seat for your GAL. That, however, means you need to crank it up a notch. Seriously. What were your dreams when you were 17? Before marriage and life got in the way? What activities did you give up for the marriage that you miss? Do them. It's your t

ime now. As for her being there, be cordial, but very "as if" and don't have a lot of time available for her. She can do her thing, you do yours. You'll get a response, especially since you've seen her already notice your GAL. Hit the gym, eat right, be very positive and confident, dress to kill (this was big for me, I was a cargo shorts, t-shirt, and running shoes guy 99% of the time). Build that new life. The life you want. You may not even want her in it. If it's that good that can happen sometimes. It's not hard. These are things you can do right away. Be a man that women will be attracted to and you'll find that women are attracted to you. Don't be negative. Don't lament. Don't be mopey. Don't over-engage with her. Treat her like a neighbor that you're cordial and friendly with but don't really know and don't have much interest in getting to know.
BTW, when you catch her in lies or carrying on with OM just chuckle, say good luck with all that, and walk away. Take the attitude that you're watching a trashy guest on the Jerry Springer show and getting a chuckle out of it. That works too but don't engage. Don't get sucked into anything. If she really wants to chang
e her life then when breakdown happens you'll know it's legit. You just will.