...I'm going to divorce my fWW. She's a model former wayward. She went to counseling, did the work, blah blah blah. Literally everything a WS is supposed to do to earn back love and trust. I bear her no ill will. It just never came back all the way for me and I want more out of life. Turning 50 and don't want to be with someone who cheated on me for the next 50. It's always this thing that happened and no matter how much time passes, that thing is still there. I still can't believe she could be that cruel. Do I want to be with someone capable of such cruelty? As time has shown me, no, I don't.
I post because she'll probably show up here or one of the other sites because she knows I am a firm believer they can help. If you see a new 50 year old woman show up whose story of being a former WW matches our story, tell her not to bother, that her stbxh knows all these programs and all the techniques and it's not going to work.
Good luck to all of you and whatever it is you want out of life and relationships. Getting out there and meeting new people actually sounds very exciting to me.
I'm sorry Texas. You posted on my thread when I wrote as julieh and I always appreciated your advice.
It seems like you really did make an effort at forgiveness and reconciliation. Your wife was very lucky that you were willing to try. And I am glad for you that it is your choice now. I imagine a choice like this must have been extremely hard to come to.
I think it is hard for the walk aways to really understand the type of trauma and damage that we the LBS endure.
It's not just the ending of a relationship. It's the gaslighting, vilification, betrayal, and lies and secrecy that go with it. From the very people that we trusted our entire being with. I would rather be beaten, and assaulted in public by strangers then endure the way my spouse treated me when he left. And the residual feelings that cone with it. I am still deeplybwounded and traumatized. Most people would treat criminals or enemies better then we were treated many of us as the parents of shared children.
And here's the thing. I get that at the time our spouses are detached and no longer in love etc. Going through endorphin highs and reliving childhood traumas. But any decent human being owes it to a family member to treat someone with respect.
An old poster pyrite once asked, would you date someone knowing that in the future they would cheat and betray you? Would you date someone you met that cheated on their spouse? To me that would be a huge red flag.
But this IS a marriage saving forum. And perhaps, just perhaps with space and distance and seeking new relationships you might find more empathy and forgiveness for your wife.
I hope you continue to post on your new life.
I'm sorry to read this TX, and I'm sorry that you guys haven't been able to make things work after your W's A, despite her remorse and doing whatever it takes.
I do think it must be incredibly difficult to try and rebuild your marriage following infidelity. Like you, I would certainly have given it a go, but I didn't get the opportunity.
When you talk of your W's cruelty, I would see this more as awful mistakes and I do think it is best to think in terms of people trying to do things 'for themselves' as opposed 'to you.' I think when people have an A, they tend to compartmentalise and minimise the impact their behaviour had. Sometimes it is only when we walk in those shoes, we truly realise...
So, have you told your W yet?
We did give it our all. IC for both. MC together. I got to a point where I felt like the counseling was trying to help me brainwash myself into forgetting the past. I just couldn't do it. Neither could she. I think we still love each other but after her MLC/affairs there was this big elephant in the room, always. It was making me unhappy and making her unhappy too. I think it's better if we part as friends and maybe each of us find that special kind of love like we used to have, with other people.
Tex - I grieve as I read your post. Considering how far you have come it's a shame that MR could not go the distance.
I've truly value your advice and input and look forward to doing what I can do to support you in your next chapter.
bb
Tx,
I'm also very sad to read this news. I had a feeling that you had been leaning this way for some time now. Some of your comments started to sound a little cryptic.
Can I ask you how long ago her affair started? How long was the affair? And how long it has been since the affair ended?
I went through it many years ago and I might be able to offer some insight if you care.
Tx, I do hope you keep posting here. I think we can all learn from one another, despite our diff outcomes. Perhaps you can share more on what part of piecing worked and what what didn't? What is the timeline of your sitch?
I have read your posts before, but would like to see a link to your previous threads. I am curious what turned for you or if perhaps you didn't give it enough time? Your signature says you weathered the storm and were in love.
My FWH has been back for two years and it's incredibly difficult. I also feel that he has done all that one could hope for, but it doesn't make it easier to forgive him. It's going to take a lot more time and self exploration. Even if our M doesn't survive, I know I've got to look at my mistakes and make changes too.
I can't help but notice you still seem to have a lot of anger! On 25s thread you wrote that your FWW will always be tainted. You are telling us if she comes to DB to tell her not to bother. That's harsh and wreaks of anger. You know as well as anyone that DB is not to win back our spouse, but to improve ourselves. This might be a great place for her.
Quite simply, what have YOU done to work on your anger, your resentment, and forgiveness? That's all you can control anyhow, right? Because it reads that you want to punish her.
Look, if you don't want to be M anymore, especially after such a betrayal, I think we all agree that's respectable choice. But you are still so hurt and angry. Don't you owe it to yourself to let go of that now? I also think if you want a friendship with her, then you've got to respect her. She made a terrible mistake, but she is human, and we all make mistakes.
Please keep posting. I don't mean this as a 2*4, but i want to challenge your thinking. Heck, I could be saying the same thing at some point. I just hope I don't. I what to forgive H and understand this mess, not just for the M, but for ME.
Blu
...there was this big elephant in the room, always.
For me, the big elephant in the room isn't the real issue, it's that elephants eat their own poop. That's just gross.
Sorry to read this but definitely understand.
Still in your signature line, I noticed this:
"Currently: Weathered the storm and in love"
Was it actually true when you wrote it, and then it changed, or, with the benefit of hindsight, would you say it never was true?
Sorry to read this but definitely understand.
Still in your signature line, I noticed this:
"Currently: Weathered the storm and in love"
Was it actually true when you wrote it, and then it changed, or, with the benefit of hindsight, would you say it never was true?
It's true. I don't think "in love" is accurate. Not in a passionate way. I do love her. We've been together for so long and been through so much. She's the mother of the only kids I'll ever have. Great kids (now two adults and one getting there fast).
I've just come to realize that this union is tainted and it's never going to get back to amazing. We married at 19. Our love was innocent. Once the innocence is dead you can't get it back. I think we'll both be better off moving on to relationships with other people and a chance at that innocent type of love you have with a loyal passionate partner where no infidelity has tainted the R.
The therapy was getting to the point where I recognized we almost are trying to brainwash ourselves to feel differently and I don't want to do that. We're 50 years old now. Both of us deserve a betrayal-free love/relationship and that's now impossible with each other because it happened. I know she's 100% remorseful of the past but it happened. I can't keep trying.
For the other person that asked, it started in 2012. I discovered 2013 when the OBS blew the whole thing up in their faces. Turns out my then 45yo MLC wife had a steady AP (neighbor/"friend") and a couple of other one-time things during that year.
I've healed from the past. I understand everything that happened, I accept it, and I have forgiven her. All that still doesn't equal being in love with someone and wanting to stay married to them. That's what I've come to realize and I'm moving on, happily.
Tx,
Any reason you didn't answer my questions? Just curious.
Look, what you are saying makes sense to me. My MC has helped me to understand that not all Ms can survive an A. I honestly don't know if mine will either. However, if I am going to end this M (and family) it will not be because of a mistake that he made, it will be because we both can no longer reconcile, and live with, our differences in general.
What I do know is that your posts don't read that you are happy and have forgiven her. There is a disconnect there. Because if you have forgiven her then you would not still describe it as tainted, right? Just think about that, you owe yourself that much.
IMHO, if a M is not going to survive after infidelity, it should not be because of the betrayal alone. If both people worked together, reconciled their differences, gave it time, and truly learned to grow and change their ways, and they still wanted to part, then that is understandable. And not just seeing the fault of the one that had an A, but that the LBS understands why it ever happened. That is the hardest part of being the LBS--seeing past the betrayal and realizing that we need to change too. Everybody does, especially over the decades of the M. If you are saying that the M is over because of the A (that it is still tainted) then I would challenge your thinking that this work was not completed.
Innocence and newness only lasts so long and does not survive any relationship over time. I hope for you, that you can find more than that with the next person.
I just want to challenge you to think harder about what you are saying--please don't get defensive--if you read your posts (here and to others) it does not sound like you have forgiven her and are happy about your sitch. If you don't want to be with your W, I can only hope it is because you are not compatible and no longer desire the family you created, and not due to that one time period.
Blu
I've done IC, MC, all that jazz. I have no anger for her but she is permanently tainted. It's like being convicted of murder, paying your debt to society, and being released. You're always a convicted murderer the rest of your life. Permanently tainted. My stbxw is a good woman. With another partner in the future she won't be tainted. She hasn't cheated on them and hopefully won't. I don't think she will. I don't think she would ever cheat on me in the future but then again, almost all BS's say that about their WS's before they catch them cheating.
I have zero anger for her but, and this is important, I have no tolerance for infidelity. I tried to find tolerance for it but I can't without allowing myself to be brainwashed. I can't reconcile the fact that a person you took vows with would break those vows and cheat. She and I said for decades that would be a deal breaker. Turns out, it is. I'm looking forward to my future. Maybe my future partner will cheat. If so, I'll end that relationship and find another partner. At least I've learned from my experience. I think that's the most important thing about any life experiences.
If I seem angry in any post here, I'm not. I'm just blunt about cheating. If the person is trying to win back their cheater, and being very weak, clingy, crying, etc., then I may speak bluntly to them but only because I'm trying to snap them out of it. That approach never ever works. It actually has the opposite effect and makes them look weak and pathetic as a contrast makes their AP look strong and self-assured.
I said for my stbxw not to bother db'ing me because I know the program and would know all the techniques. If she detaches and starts moving on that would be awesome. That's what I want her to do so she can find happiness.
What is her position right now? What is she asking for?
I understand about the perceived taint, and I must admit in my own situation that I have felt it may be easier just to move on. Have the freshness of something new with someone new, without having to work through and overcome the difficult experience of infidelity.
As you say, your W is a good woman. A good woman who made a significant mistake. Is it possible to love and rebuild with someone who has made a significant mistake. Yes possible and no, not easy.
The important thing in my situation - whilst I felt the way I did - was I didn't have the decision to file on my shoulders. Being able to live with that decision and feeling at peace that you truly gave an important relationship and situation your all is so important.
I hope you don't mind me saying that there does seem to be a note of anger and dismissiveness in your posts. One thing I think it is important to think about is - yes she made the mistake of cheating, and yes she realised the mistake and did all she could to put that right. We can't unring that bell once it has rung, but we can do all that it takes to try and heal ourselves and help our partner heal too.
From what you post, she has done all of that, so is it more that you have found it hard to forgive and move past what happened? What more could she have done for you and for your marriage?
Also, I think the single most important thing about moving on from a R is also learning the lessons from it. And normally those lessons relate to ourselves and how we manage ourselves and our relationships with others. Can I ask what you feel you have learned about yourself that you can take forward into a possible new R?
Finally, I would say if you have decided to proceed with D, I hope you will give yourself plenty of time to heal, learn and healthily move on from that R. I have chosen not to date until a year after our D finalised, and I don't regret the wait....there is plenty of life to be lived without a new partner in the mix after all...
I hope you don't mind me posting these thoughts. I've been through the same awfulness of betrayal, though didn't get the chance to try and rebuild - so I understand how difficult it may have been for you..and feel free to discard anything you don't find useful..
What is her position right now? What is she asking for?
More time. More IC/MC. Convinced we're still soul mates. The fact she still uses that term makes me question if she's learned anything from all this. I know I have. I fear she's going to waste energy that could best be spent moving forward in a different path than I am. That's why if she shows up here the best advice anyone could give her is to let it go and move on. Detach, GAL, move on. That's what I did. DB'ing saved me even if my M couldn't be saved. That's the point, I think.
I can honestly say, that there are many people on these boards that wish their W's wanted to heal and rebuild their R, but as many have said on here..."you" will have to decide what you want when and if they come out of the fog. You have made your decision and just as she will, you will have to live with those consequences.
I know that I, for one, wish that I even had a chance to try and make things work with my W who I have known for 25+ years. Yours seems to be there, but I don't know all of the dynamics either. I have never strayed from our MR, but I know I am not perfect by far. It takes two to make something work for sure. If you are out then you are out.
Texas is a big place and I am sure that there are many fish in the sea for us all, but I also know that I made a commitment to my W...that was for better or worse. It didn't specify what the worst part would be, so I figure you & I are probably in it right now. I wish you the best, but remember that forgiveness goes both ways. I mean, she needs you to forgive her for her betrayal, just as much as you have a need to forgive her. One day maybe you will get there.
God speed my friend...I will keep you in my prayers for your own peace!
Tex,
I won't pretend to know much, I still need almost daily guidance from the awesome vets here. But I do know about forgiveness and what you describe is not forgiveness. I recommend watching "The power of forgiveness" a TED talk by Sammy Rangel. Seriously. I was lucky to come across it.
Hope you and your W find some peace.
Tx
here are 2 questions I just want to ask, (and I'm assuming everything you say is true.)
You mention turning 50, which is when a lot of MLCs or WAS's act out.
Ever wonder if you guys had some issues, and maybe you needed an excuse to quit & explore, and she gave it to you?
Your signature says the grass is greener where you water it, but aren't you kind of saying the opposite?
Thanks for posting this Tx. There is so much that resonates with me in this thread and gave me so much pause in reading it and then thinking over my current situation.
My wife is in an active PA right now and I would consider myself fortunate if she would eventually break it off and we could give MC a try. Even if we reached D after MC that would be infinitely better than filing during the A. I have a fear right now of not reaching any closure on our marriage of 25 years if we go straight to D.
And yes I agree that I married her for better or for worse. I am deeply into a 'for worse' that I never ever imagined could take place and I'm not at a point of giving up either even though she has treated me far worse than I could ever imagine and it continues.
Having said that, I feel I could still forgive like you but I want to get to the point where I can evaluate if I can move forward even in a tainted relationship and with a spouse that has the capability of such selfishness that I never realized she possessed. This is not the person I knew 4 months ago.
I understand forgiveness. I completely forgive her for the past. I hope she moves on and has a wonderful life. I hope she finds true happiness. I really do. I plan on doing the same thing. I've been seeing professional counselors for 4 years now. Everything I'm planning comes with the blessing of the IC and MC. I'm not in any type of fog, I just don't want to continue this marriage. Nothing wrong with that.
Tx,
Good luck in the road you're taking right now. I'm sure it wasn't an easy decision. I do think you should keep something in mind, though: when you were going through the worst part of this, remember how you felt. It's likely she's going to feel the same way. Even if you're going to walk away, treat her with compassion.
Also, I imagine you've got a ton of anger that's going to be coming your way from her. Be ready for that.
T...
I understand completely what you are saying. And I'm not seeing a lot of anger from you. You knew that you were gonna get some slack over this.
I mean hell, this is a site full of people trying to get what you have (a restored marriage).
In the true essence of DBing , I think it unfair to condemn your choices just because.
What I see in your words is some residual pain from all that has happened. And a razor fine line between judgement, and a personal boundary of what you will, and will not, allow for yourself.
I see it more as a healthy boundary, and a decision of what you want for yourself in life, yet it reads almost as judgement. Because you are so 'absolute' in your decision.
I urge you to be aware of the two...
Finding a way through the collateral damage is hard. Damned hard...
And it is a process that many people cannot endure. I have seen multiple reconciliations where the LBS has eventually ended the marriage a few miles down the road. Simply because that hill was too large to conquer....
And as long as you can walk away with a clear conscious, and knowing that you gave 'er all she had , then in the end, I hope that you find peace throughout this crossroads in your life...
This post saddens me.
I wonder if this will happen to us. I SO want our reconciliation to work, but when I see this, I wonder if I will reach a breaking point in the future like you have? Will I say in 4 - 5 years, "hey, I tried, but I can't do it anymore?"
Ugh. Its been over a year for me and there are times I think I moved on, then there are times I think, "why should I even bother?"