I think I'm supposed to do this now.
Previous thread here:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2737275#Post2737275Talked to psychologist today, was a good meeting. Talked about wants and not really having any (was thinking mostly material at first). She asked if I had any non-material ones, and I had a few. She said it was a good start.
Operation GAL continues fairly well. The meetup group I was at tonight had about 20 people atttending, the hosts' house was pretty nice. Enjoyed playing some games I've never played before, had good conversation (most of the people there were professionals in their 30s-50s) and talked a bit with a nice french girl.
Got chatted up by a walmart cashier when I picked up the beer/soda for the evening. That's not exactly a high bar, but it was good for my self-esteem in any case.
STBXW was supposed to move out tomorrow and sunday. When I called to talk to D, I asked W if she wanted me to take D for the day while she did her stuff. Her answer was, "It depends, when are you bringing the truck?"
NOT my problem.
I think I'm supposed to do this now.
Yes great job!
Talked to psychologist today, was a good meeting. Talked about wants and not really having any (was thinking mostly material at first). She asked if I had any non-material ones, and I had a few. She said it was a good start.
East - This is awesome. After years of not doing much for me, I feel like I'm still moving boxes around in my head like a piled up store room for things to do/want. It's a process like any of this. Great that you're seeing someone to help you with it. I just went to my IC for the 3rd time yesterday since this all started up and it helps so much.
Got chatted up by a walmart cashier when I picked up the beer/soda for the evening. That's not exactly a high bar, but it was good for my self-esteem in any case.
"Not a high bar". :-) Been in similar waters lately and it does help the esteem regardless of the source!
Her answer was, "It depends, when are you bringing the truck?"
NOT my problem.
Please tell me you told her "not my problem". :-)
Please tell me you told her "not my problem". :-)
Even if you said NOTHING that is OK
Please tell me you told her "not my problem". :-)
Even if you said NOTHING that is OK
Agree Cadet. My W the other night actually said "Please tell me you're going to wash the kids clothes while you're at the house" to which I just looked at her and walked off. It felt good.
Treated myself to dinner and a movie tonight. Logan was... eh, not bad but I didn't like it.
STBXW did not show up at all today. I'm assuming she won't be here tomorrow, either, but I don't care either way since I won't be.
So school got cancelled today, apparently because it rained too much. I got a call at 10:30 last night from the county letting me know. W called me about 10:30 this morning saying "hey, did you know school was out?" As if I wouldn't notice if the building was locked up when I tried to drop D off this morning.
I took the day off of work, and spent it with D. We dropped by the office so she could say hi to various people (HR made her an employee badge a year or two ago... it actually unlocks the security doors), went to lunch together, saw Boss Baby, and went to the bookstore and the trampoline park again.
My attitude right now is great. My body feels incredible (heart rate about 120 for over an hour). Weight loss is right at 60bs.
If every day were like today, I don't think I would believe I was actually awake. When I feel like I do right now, there's no room for hurt. I have my health, I have my daughter, I have a great career... the only thing I'm missing is someone to share that with, and every day I accept a little more that it's HER that is missing out.
Great job, TN!
You are on the right track now! A man only a fool would leave!
the only thing I'm missing is someone to share that with, and every day I accept a little more that it's HER that is missing out.
East... I think you left the letter B in your name because you should be Beast!!! This is great and gives me some pep in myself thinking about it so Thank You!!
Thanks, tryin, I appreciate that, and I hope things are going better for you, too.
Not much to say on my end for the last few days. No meaningful contact with STBXW. MIL was supposed to come to dinner last night (I didn't invite, she asked) but niece got sick at the last minute, so that got scrubbed. Rescheduled till next week. D and I went out for a daddy daughter date night and got mexican food instead, she had a good night.
After homework, we went and walked around the subdivision. I've lived there for five and a half years and have met like six people (not kidding). W never let D go out to play, and she never really played with any of the kids. As of last night, she officially has THREE friends in the subdivision, so she's doing good.
Appointment with L tomorrow to finalize the agreement we hope W is going to sign, then we'd be officially divorced in about three months. I'd say "wish me luck" but I don't think anyone here wants to wish for that kind of luck.
GAL continues well, have plans tomorrow night and sunday afternoon. tarting to talk to people of the opposite sex. Not really to date yet, but talking is keeping me positive.
Things are slow and steady but still the same and that's ok. Takes time.
Sounds like you and your D are really having a lot of fun together. That is fantastic. I'm also having a blast with my kids and that includes a near 14-year old daughter. For those with teenagers, you know that's monumental.
Good luck with the appointment. It is all part of the process. I might not wish you luck, but I'll wish you the best.
Roller coaster day. My fault for allowing myself to get dragged into it.
Appointment with therapist went well. She said she's seen some good progress, and that I was much more upbeat. I felt like it was good session, but still a lot more of me letting stuff out than focused therapy.
Appointment with lawyer also went well. I have the final agreement for W to sign. If she signs it, D will be final by late July / early August.
Operation GAL continued smoothly tonight. Showed up for my group, BS'd with some folks, everyone enjoyed the Woodchuck Amber cider I brought with me ("Lots better than something like Angry Orchard!"), started playing a good game. Around 8:30 I called to talk to D before she went to bed. That's where the trouble started.
Had a good conversation with D, told her daddy was at a party and having fun. She was on speaker, so W heard all this. When D went off to finish watching her movie, W actually wanted to talk for the first time in I don't know how long. I kept it short.
About 20 minutes later, I get a text about how she is happy that I'm doing the things I always wanted to do, but she's bitter and hurt by me, because this is all she ever wanted to do with me, and I waited until I pushed her out of my life to do them. That's what she means when she says she wasn't worth my time, etc. She wasn't much to me, etc, but best wishes for my continued growth.
I SHOULD have ignored this. Alas, I did not.
I told her I didn't know how to respond to this, that she threw me away and made it clear she was done with me, that she replaced me with someone else. That I started trying to be a better man for her, but she wasn't interested, and that she said she was never coming back. What was I supposed to do, cry for the rest of my life? I wanted to spend the rest of my life with her, and she told me our family wasn't worth saving. Kaizen will call me on this, but I told her again that she was always good enough, and that even when she was screaming at me, I still wanted to love her forever.
She gave up on me, flew away with the money I gave her for xmas to see another man and made me pay for the rest. Practically laughed about it when she came back, and was smug about what she'd done.
I was so wound up, I actually sent her the damn email I wrote her when I was journaling, and told her to believe it or not, because it didn't matter anymore.
She came back telling me how much she hated me for letting her go, for not showing her enough love or showing her I wanted her, and how she can't put up with it anymore. That she will always love me, and wonder why I gave up on wanting her and showing her.
There's more in this vein, but I don't want to write about it. I was literally shaking in anger when the conversation started, who the heck is she to tell me how I felt? By the end, I was just drained. I left my fun night out a few hours early and went home. I just didn't have it in me to keep going tonight.
The funny part is that I don't feel sad. Or angry. I feel like this is the last push I needed to walk away from this. That she'll never be able to get that kind of emotion out of me again, which means there's no way she can control me (except D, but L says that's not going to happen).
If I could find the woman I married, I'd probably still try to make it work with her. But that woman is long gone, and she's never coming back. And that's my past... not my future.
East,
That is a freaking roller coaster right there, but keep in mind she's pushing her guilt all over you. Making this about you giving up while she's running off to OM. Do NOT ignore this. Her guilt is not yours to carry, my friend.
She's clearly seeing the changes in you and that's great because she's acknowledging that they're real, not manipulative, etc. Just keep doing what you're doing.
We all end up in places we did not want before BD and not because any of us intentionally wanted our M to be that way. It is complete horse caca (haha DB censors!!!) to be throwing you under the Divorce bus as it's you're fault for giving up.
Hope you have a great day today.
They're real, and she seems to hate it.
I left a bunch out above. She told me repeatedly last night that she's done, and doesn't want me anymore, etc (I wasn't talking about it fixing anything, she was just spewing it at me).
Then she told me that she would always love me, but still didn't want me. Then she told me I was a great man, and to not make the same mistakes in my next relationship.
The anger really drained out of me when she was saying that. I kind of feel pity at this point. SHE started all of this, and now it's like she's trapped in something, and she's raging about it.
I'm really, really not looking forward to tomorrow when I give her the paperwork.
East,
I'm sure you're a little like me in that you're curious what its going to look like when the other shoe drops. I don't know what course it takes, but I think its one or the other that hits first: a) anger/venting is finally done or b) reality.
All the negatives from over the years comes out first and they can't stop riding that emotion until they've scraped the bottom of the barrel. It can be painful to hear, but it is interesting to observe given some good distance from detachment.
You sound strong and I wish you the best.
Thanks, Tryin.
I have soccer first this afternoon, so I should be feeling pretty good (if tired) when I go to pick up D, and W and I have this conversation.
I don't know why this is bothering me so much. I've accepted that this relationship is over, that W isn't the person she was, and I don't want the person that she is. The divorce has already been filed for two weeks, so it's not like there is anything new here.
I don't know why this is bothering me so much.
I think it's just all part of the process. Emotions hit (good, bad, ugly, FUBAR) and we have to deal. One of my self-help books I read had a quote that I try to remind myself something like "acknowledge the feelings, challenge the thoughts".
We feel what we feel and don't really have control over what goes through our minds and hearts, but how we think about it, react to it is completely in our control. It's ok if it's bothering you, just don't let it own you.
No you haven't accepted anything. Do not kid yourself. You are only a couple on months into this, you have not accepted $hit yet. Do not kid yourself. The reality of it all is still waiting to hit you. Trust me, I have seen a lot of people over a couple of years and you are waaaaaays of of accepting stuff.
There is nothing wrong with you, but you do have to allow yourself to grieve the death of your relationship.
Vapo, you ain't kidding.
Went to see W with the agreement. She got VERY upset about the weekend for me that was in there, and said she wanted the summer in exchange. I told her that I wasn't ever going to sign off on that, because there was no way in hell I was standing for D sitting around a trailer all summer and going back to school unable to read. I did point out that she could get her from summer program whenever she wanted to. Not good enough. I pointed out that the "minimal time" she has is actually a LOT more than I have--I get to see her three hours a day for five days a week, and we spend most of that time getting ready, working, or eating. She has her for 48 hours straight and they can do whatever she wants.
W started spewing. I called her on her crap. I actually walked out and drove up the hill to MIL's house to get D. She sent me a text "You just walked out." "Yes. I didn't think there was anything else to talk about." W is apparently floored by this.
MIL can see that I'm upset. Really upset. She tells me to just let it go, that there's nothing good in getting riled up over this. MIL is basically telling me she isn't worth it.
Some fighting by text. I called her out on the Florida thing. She admitted to some things. I called her and let out a bunch of anger I didn't even know was still there. I tore her a new [censored]. At one point she something I don't remember, and I tell her "I know, and I don't care, I need to say this for ME." She took it. I went for almost an hour. I tell W I have a date on Saturday (I do).
The "Nice Guy" in me doesn't do anger. W has NEVER seen anything like this from me. W actually apologizes, for basically everything. W doesn't normally apologize for anything. In six years, she's said "sorry" so rarely that I could count them without taking off my shoes and probably while wearing mittens.
In the middle of all of this, I'm crying my eyes out (mostly anger). D and niece come walking up and I don't notice them (I've walked 100 yards away from the house while talking). Niece asks D "why is he crying" and D rather nastily says, "probably because of my MOMMY." That just messes me up even more--Daddy's Girl is picking up on this stuff and is NOT happy with mommy, that's NOT GOOD, it's the LAST THING I want. I tell W about it an apologize.
MIL has to leave, so I say "Goodbye" (capital G on purpose) to W. We have to stop by W's house on the way, because D's school stuff is still there. I'm driving down the hill, and our song comes on the radio. Seriously!? Seriously, universe!? I decide I'm taking the pain on this one, and I'm taking W along for the ride with me. Blast the music, windows down, roll up in the middle of the first verse, W is actually outside. "Isn't fate a f***ing b****?" is my greeting.
W grabs me and hugs me. I hug back. I tilt her face up and say "last one, make it count" and we kiss. Kissing madly, hugging, both of us crying our eyes out to our song. MIL drives past at this moment and screams out the window, "NOW THAT IS MORE LIKE IT!"
W and I both wave her off. We know this isn't what it looks like.
This is Goodbye.
East - that's some heavy stuff, my friend.
Call me crazy but I don't think your sitch is over by a long shot.
Yes, your kiss was goodbye (in that moment). But from where I sit, I think you guys had a healing moment. You both became vulnerable.
You both let some things out and got them off your chest. Chill out for a little bit and let her think about what just happened.
"Chill out" is an understatement. I have a coping mechanism set up now to deal with my behavior. I have my mother make me promise her to follow my desired behavior. It's a crutch, but it works for me.
Current promises:
"I promise that I will not apologize to W anymore"
"I promise that I will not make first contact with W unless it is about D"
Added today: "I promise that I will not talk to W AT ALL unless it is about D for two months."
As for this not really being over... well, I really am going to start dating. The lack of meaningful adult interaction is REALLY starting to get to me. Board games and soccer are REALLY helping me, but they don't fully cut it. I need one on one adult conversation.
There's also (and I'm NOT saying that I'm looking for this, but I am not sure I'd turn it down) the problem that losing almost 65lbs has brought my sex drive back with a vengeance.
My date on Saturday will satisfy the first, and has no chance of satisfying the second. I'm comfortable with that.
What are your goals in going out on dates?
What kind of "adult interaction" are you looking for?
My date on Saturday will satisfy the first, and has no chance of satisfying the second. I'm comfortable with that.
Just a word of advice from someone only a couple of months ahead of you, on my journey. My first couple of dates didn't do me any good. On the contrary. It left me with an empty feeling, fear of rejection plus multible other negative (sad) emotions. Honestly it almost made me feel as if I cheated on my XW (yeah insane, I know). They actually set me back a little bit.
And even if you're in top shape, be prepared for the possible outcome, that if the mind isn't functioning 100%, the body might also not be. And that could add quite some damage to your confidence, which is certainly not what you need right now.
Kaizen,
"Adult interaction" means a good conversation, and I guess more importantly the direct attention of another human being (of the opposite sex).
Also... it's hard to feel like I haven't been thrown away like trash. I know I am NOT trash, that I'm not defective, that I'm a good man. I have a good sense of self worth at this point, and working on me has reinforced that. I want to find out if someone else can see me the same way.
I also think it's part of letting go, giving up, and moving on. People get stuck when something like this happens. They end up not being able to move on. I don't want to be stuck. I want to keep putting one foot in front of the other.
There's also the fact that life has taught me that "you will never have good things happen to you if you don't put yourself in a position for them to happen." Sure, bad things can happen, too. But that's life.
and... if I'm being completely honest, this is reclaiming personal power. Telling W (who doesn't want me anyway, so this isn't so valid) that she lost her chance with me. That someone else is going to have me eventually.
Btrow,
Nothing you say sounds weird to me. I'm afraid I'm going to feel like i'm cheating, too. I need to find out if that's true. I have some fear of rejection (and even some indications... like I said, I'm positive this date will not lead anywhere).
I'll also say, though I really don't want to admit this, "failure to perform" is a concern. I've been dealing with that for a while now, and NOT anything to do with my marriage. If everything worked right, I'd be pleasantly surprised rather than crushed if it didn't.
Actually, I'm not as sure as I was when I first wrote that. I'm going (well, at least I hope I will eventually) to have to face that test at some point anyway, though, right?
I have one other thought... I'm trying to not be a "nice guy" anymore. I'm trying to have and accept that I can have wants. And I WANT this. I genuinely WANT this for ME.
Why did I let myself get sucked into this roller coaster this weekend? I was doing well. I was happy. I was getting my stuff together. Today I'm a wreck, my anxiety is through the roof, and I can't focus on a damn thing.
It is called cycling. It is normal. It will get better...
Im going through the exact same thing, East.
I've felt strong for a few days in a row and started to gain some momentum. Seeing W acting like her old self really got me spinning.
To me, dating at this stage does sound like it's for you. But not for you to heal. It sounds selfish and vengeful. Why else would you tell W about it unless you wanted her to feel something one way or another.
You still sound quite attached (which is ok and normal), but to me,it doesn't sound like a healthy state to be having dates.
Remember this also. The opposite of being a "nice guy" isn't being a duck. It's just being NICE. My understanding of being a"nice guy" is that it isn't very nice. It's passive aggressive, manipulative and controlling. I wouldn't think being selfish or angry is the opposite of that. I would instead aim for compassionate, empathetic, understanding, etc.
Just my 2c though.
I'm pretty sure I really did just say it to hurt her.
I only told her because I was hurting. I didn't plan to. I actually planned NOT to. Forget any legal issue (lawyers appear to be split on this issue), I really didn't want to rub it in her face or hurt her. I didn't plan to have yesterday happen the way it did. I'd take it back if I could.
My want here isn't to be a duck. It isn't to be vengeful or selfish. My want here is to be happy. To have something for me.
For twenty years I've been taking care of people. I haven't wanted jack. I haven't asked for jack. The last time I remember WANTING something FOR ME was Christmas 2008 or so. First W spent more than what I wanted for me, and got me a bunch of stuff I didn't want or need and a gift card. The cynic in me believed that she wanted me to give most of it to her. How she acted when I used the gift card reinforced that. I haven't asked for anything since then.
I want this for me. I want to look into the eyes of a woman and see her looking back at a man, not look into the eyes of someone who I would've stopped a bullet for and see nothing but anger, pain, disgust, and contempt.
I want my feelings validated. That I AM worth something. That I DO have merit as something other than a father. I believe these things, but I want someone else to believe them too. And I don't want to just have those feelings validated with words. I want to have them validated by SEEING it. In a few months, when I'm ready, and I find the right person, I want to have them validated in a more primal way.
I don't know any way to start down that path other than this one.
You say you want to be happy. Why does that require another person?you say you won't be ready for a few months; so why are you starting now?
Look. I've been right where you are. When my ex separated from me, I spiraled down for about 3 months. at some point, I hit bottom and had nowhere to go from there but up. But trust me, THAT wasn't the time to start dating. Anyone I met at that time would be causing my happiness not adding to it. So I ramped up my GAL even further. I joined a game group. One of my friends invited me to his pathfinder group. A friend from game night invited me into a fantasy football league. I started doing things with some of the guys on weekends. I reconnected with some friends from college. I reinvented my life so that I WOULD be ready when the right person came into my life.
I started dating about 7 months after BD, 6 months after separation and a month before the D was final. If I could do it again, I'd have waited longer. I feel lucky that the person I'm with was an incredible fit for me. I'm pretty sure I'd have been happy making the wrong person "fit" right when I started. I just wanted to be wanted. I was nowhere near ready, but I found a gray person who was still around once I was ready.
Again, just my 2 cents. Really look at yourself and your goals to understand what you want out of this.
East,
Sorry you're having a roller coaster time right now. You have to do what makes sense for you.
I think Kaizen has some great real life experience shared and being in this position I could not imagine trying to date right now. This is not some moral comment but just mental/emotional.
Healing is a big part of moving away from what you've been through. Dating can most definitely bump the ego and we all know how low we realize we were when our respective BD's hit now with hindsight.
I wish you the best in doing what you need to find peace.
Kaizen,
You keep telling me things that make me question my assumptions and conclusions. Not sure if I want to go in that direction or not, but I'm thinking. Just want to say "thank you" for the good advice you keep giving me. And Thornton and Tryin are giving me support that I'm frankly not getting anywhere else.
Friends and family just want you to stop hurting, and their advice is given with that in mind. You guys don't know me, but y'all are speaking to me from where I am, and care enough to do that.
So thanks again, guys. It means the world.
YW East,
We're all in different situations, but it feels like we're all in the trench together. My glass half-empty self says "misery loves company", but half-full self says "where's the keg".
All the best.
East ,you are not nearly ready to date. Not even close. You just want something to numb the pain. This is not the way to go.
Remember, broken attracts broken, and you do not need new broken people in your life right now.
As for happiness, you really cannot expect someone else to make you happy. That is the recipe for disaster. No one else can make you happy, only you can make you happy. You have a lot of $hit to go through. A lot. The good news is that now you have time. Use it wisely. Use it to grow. Use it to grow into the best EAST you can.
That's great advice, Vapo.
So, despite everything I've been through so far this year, it appears that fate is kind to me and is looking out for me. The girl I was supposed to go out with originally backed out for whatever reason (still unclear to me).
The friend that set the date up found me another possibility (before I had a chance to think about the advice here). I've started talking to her. She has moral issues about dating someone who is still technically married.
I find myself in a comfortable situation. I have a pretty firm "don't talk to two girls at the same time" rule, so I don't feel the need to keep looking. Divorce is still months out, so I have time to work on me, and to heal, and not worry about rebounding or whatever. I have my proof that I can still attract someone so my ego is satisfied.
I'm genuinely content if she ends up as JUST a friend going forward. I don't feel the need to rush anything.
So... I guess this is where things get "fun." W texted me today saying that she wants D all summer in exchange for my one weekend a month. I told her there is no chance that I'm going to allow D's future be based on the premise that W will NEVER actually go back to work.
We may be going to mediation on this. I don't know. At this point she's begging. I want to give in. I don't like her being this sad. But I don't believe it's in D's best interests, so how can I? That's not a role model for her. That's not a summer for her to have. W says she misses D terribly and I believe it. I've tried to make as many allowances as I can, but W is rejecting them (apparently, being able to take her from summer program every day isn't enough).
W says I'm punishing her. I'm not. I want what's best for D. I don't want or need to punish W. ESPECIALLY not through D!
She will say anything and everything to get her way. DO NOT believe her.
You have to make decisions that are right for you and your D, don't let her screw you over. You do not have to be a dick about it (and I am not saying that you are, because you are not), but stand your ground and get advice from L. DO NOT give into her extortion...
If I thought it was best for D, whether or not it was the right decision for me wouldn't matter very much. I didn't win D in the biological lottery--I CHOSE to be her father. Swore to love, guide, and protect her. I'll always do that, no matter what it costs me personally.
I don't think this is best for D.
If I understand correctly, you adopted her, that means she is your daughter. You may not have fathered her, but make no mistake, you are her father...
Yes sir, I did, and yes sir, that's my little girl. I'll go so far as to say that even though I wasn't there in body when she was made, I was surely there in spirit.
Adopting her was the best decision I've ever made in my life. Being a father is the best, most challenging, most rewarding thing that I've ever done.
What I am saying is that I didn't have this thrust upon me. I CHOSE this. I think that makes my perspective a little different. I love her, dearly. IF I didn't have her in my life, I don't know that I would come through that a whole person, if at all.
Some children are planned. Some children are unplanned. And SOME children enter your heart through nothing more than sheer force of love. She's the third kind.
To put it another way: there is no one as zealous as a convert.
L says that time is not our enemy here, but there's no upside to letting this go too long. L also says that we have this, and if she makes this into a fight it won't matter.
We're not telling her this, but she has until next Friday to sign voluntarily. Failing that, she'll be served and we'll see what happens next.
So... D had a field trip yesterday. W was supposed to go, and told D she was going to. School told me she didn't show. She did text me asking if she could grab D after school, and I told her, "well, I've been encouraging you to do this for MONTHS, so of course it's ok."
After dinner, she dropped her off pretty much as early as she could. All I said to her was, "after the conversation we had the other day, you do THIS?" She got angry, turned around, and walked away.
I'm pissed. D didn't show it at school. Didn't say anything to W. But when I got he out of the car, in front of both of us, she just looked at me and said, "Daddy, why didn't mommy come on my field trip today?"
And I'm supposed to agree to let her spend all summer like this?
Don't dump on her. You are very fast to point the finger. I know you would like to yell at her to take away from your pain, but it's a dead end.
Try not to escalate matters. Your hissy display (twice) accomplished nothing and only pissed her off and it sure as hell did not make you feel any better (in fact, you will probably reheat this episode several times in your head tonight and in the next couple of days).
Regarding the summer you know my position. PROTECT YOURSELF AND YOUR POSITION WITH THE D AND DO NOT LET HER SCREW YOU OVER. SHE IS YOUR DAUGHTER AS WELL AND SHE DESERVES 50% YOU AND 50% HER.
Don't dump on her. You are very fast to point the finger.
My first thought as well.
I promise it isnt particularly attractive.
I'm pissed. D didn't show it at school. Didn't say anything to W. But when I got he out of the car, in front of both of us, she just looked at me and said, "Daddy, why didn't mommy come on my field trip today?"
That is a tough to hear... However, I would still have to agree with Vapo and Kaizen. No need to bring it up to the W cause it will only lead to an argument. How did you respond to D's question or did W jump in and answer?
And I'm supposed to agree to let her spend all summer like this?
I know summer is right around the corner, but maybe start a calendar of the days you have D, what you cook for her, what you buy for her, events you attend, that day you took off of work to be with her, etc, etc. It may help you legally in getting joint custody.
I admit it was a bit of a hissy fit. But I'm not hurting over it. I'm worried about D. Her mom needs to be PRESENT, not this unreliable whatever she's doing. She complains she doesn't and won't get to see her, and then bails on her after she makes a commitment? WTF? She didn't even pick her up from school today, I had to, and MIL is supposed to be coming to get her at the house.
She doesn't work! She doesn't do ANYTHING except sit on her butt and play video games. She doesn't have time for our child. How am I NOT supposed to react poorly to this?
That is a tough to hear... However, I would still have to agree with Vapo and Kaizen. No need to bring it up to the W cause it will only lead to an argument. How did you respond to D's question or did W jump in and answer?
W didn't say a damn thing. I told D that mommy wasn't feeling well, which was the excuse. They were supposed to go to Dollywood last weekend. W told D last thursday night on the phone at bedtime they were going to do that. I bought them both season passes so they could spend time like that, even make sure they didn't have to pay for parking. They didn't go, W's excuse was that MIL didn't want to go, as if that should matter.
I know summer is right around the corner, but maybe start a calendar of the days you have D, what you cook for her, what you buy for her, events you attend, that day you took off of work to be with her, etc, etc. It may help you legally in getting joint custody.
I''m not worried about joint custody at this point. L tells me this is a slam dunk. I just want her to step up and do her part in taking care of our kid. She's making promises and not keeping them. D doesn't deserve this.
How am I NOT supposed to react poorly to this?
Because you are the grown up.
In my opinion, start recording these things. Note when she doesnt take on her responsibility as a parent. Then when she asks for the summer, your lawyer can show why she doesnt deserve it.
Telling her what she needs to do or not do isnt going to get you anywhere.
So basically DBing for my daughter. It's not about W, it's about D being the best D she can be?
I'm going to have to accept that it's not my responsibility to foster their relationship at some point, but the idea that my child has to deal with this is a bitter pill.
W didn't say a damn thing. I told D that mommy wasn't feeling well, which was the excuse.
Dont make excuses for W. Tell your daughter to talk to her mom about it. Frankly, it isnt your business.
I bought them both season passes so they could spend time like that, even make sure they didn't have to pay for parking.
And I would sop doing things like this too. It's up to W to foster her relationship with D. It isnt your job. You should focus more on your relationship with D and make that time as awesome as you can.
Let go of your judgment of W and how she is handling things.
I'm going to have to accept that it's not my responsibility to foster their relationship at some point, but the idea that my child has to deal with this is a bitter pill.
I felt that my ex was like yours for a long time. I felt like my kids were lacking in attention and care because my ex seemed so focused on the R with the AP and on the D. Over time, it's leveled out a bunch; though I feel like their relationship could still be better, Ive accepted that it isnt my job to police that. And frankly, I imagine any efforts I had to do that would have resulted in the opposite effect.
Im sorry your D is going through this. No child should have to suffer like this. All you can do is make the best of a bad situation.
Please accept the fact that you cannot influence your W. For atleast a while you will have to make dual plans, one that your W will do something, and one at the same time that W will no do something. In another word, don't count on her, make contingency plans.
Again, YOU CANNOT INFLUENCE YOUR W OR HER BEHAVIOR. So stop! I know it's pissing you off. We've all been there. Kaizen knows what I am talking about and you also know I'm right.
Yes, I know you're right.
I've accepted that I can't influence with regard to me. The idea that i can't influence her in regard to D is such an alien concept that I still haven't managed to accept it. Knowing and accepting are two different things.
On the plus side, contingency planning is something I'm very good at.
Us LBS dads are really big on contingencies. And contingency planing removes the element of surprise for dads so it dramatically reduces the chances of us being pissed off at the dingbat our wives have became...
I truly don't want her back.
I totally get where you are coming from EastTN, but Vapo and Kaizen are correct. Stop focusing on how much she is letting your D down and start focusing on what you can actually control.
My STBEW is the same and only focuses on her new R with the OM. My role in this isn't to judge, even though I'm just sad for my little girls, but its to be a rock for them as D is just as hard on kids as it is on us. Focus on more things you can do with your D and be there for her when W lets her down physically and emotionally. Don't make excuses for your W, but don't answer any questions your D has in regards to this issue out of anger either. I know its hard to see your D go through this and that is why she needs you more than ever right now.
Also, I would still keep records of all this. The days she doesn't pick up D from school and what not. Like I said, grab a calendar and start writing these things down.
I truly don't want her back.
Honestly? That doesnt really matter.
Because right now, she doesnt want you back either.
But what does that have to do with D? Again, nothing. The more pressure you put on W do something, the more she will resist. Let her do her own thing and you focus on you and D. Like I said...document so that you can be prepared to fight for D. But the day to day isnt your business.
Irrelevant. Because of the D you will need some kind of rapport with her. Liking her is optional. Keep the discussion at the D.
Suck it up buttercup, it's going to be a bumpy ride.
By now you probably have realized that your W is behaving pretty much as a teenager. And if you ever talked to a teenager, you know it's futile trying to persuade them .
So, good weekend so far, though W continues to be unreliable. The 2x4s yall had hit me with allowed me to take it in stride, I think.
Friday I get a text from W saying she can't pick D up at school at 3:00, and asking me if I can pick her up, and wait for MIL to come get her. I tell her, "sure, but I've got plans for tonight. D's welcome where I'm going, and if MIL isn't here by 5:00 then I'll just take her with me and you can get her tomorrow." I also remind her that D can go to after school on Friday if she needs to, and that both she and MIL are on her pickup list. Just call school and make sure she ends up in the right place.
D was pretty disappointed that I picked her up. It took a bit to get her cheered up.
I won't be able to pick up D next week, I have a Dr appt. We'll see what happens.
Board game group went well. People commented on the salad I made. Two trays of it were annihilated. I love to cook, and I LOVE to cook for other people, so this makes me pretty happy. One of the guys at the table I'm at makes a joke, and I tell him there's no way he's old enough to even get that reference. Other people at the table ask me, "who the heck are you to say that, you're not old enough either."
I tell them I'll be 43 next month and there is general disbelief. An nice older woman (she could be my mother) at the table tells me I have a baby face. One of the guys says, "well I wouldn't have told him THAT, that's got to be uncomfortable." I mention that I'm going through a divorce, and they have no idea how good they've made me feel by saying all of that. The older woman looks right at me and says, "You know, you have GORGEOUS eyes." "Ok, NOW I'm uncomfortable." Good laughs all around.
Yesterday was really fun. Spent most of the day texting with the woman I got introduced to. Mostly nice light conversation. My intellect is very happy, it's sated right now.
My date had gotten broken, but I had told W about it. At 9:30am, I get a text saying, "Good morning, I hope you have a great day and that your date goes well tonight." I don't respond. Half an hour later, W texts me about D being difficult. I ask what's wrong, and remind her to make sure D knows that if mommy punishes her, that punishment WILL still be in effect when she goes home to daddy. I also give her some advice (our parenting styles are wildly different, and mine works a LOT better with D). W doesn't respond to that. At 9:30PM, I get another text telling me that she hopes my date is going or has went well. I also don't bother to respond to that.
Today is soccer, and then I get D back. It's going to be a GREAT day.
W also "accidentally" called me yesterday. I answered, thought it had something to do with D. She didn't say anything, said she was trying to call MIL and dialed me by mistake, then hung up. Then sent a text apologizing and saying the same thing.
I feel like maybe I'm wanted, which makes me feel a little better. But I'm not reading into it, and I don't want HER, so it's just a curiosity at this point.
Nice one East. One thing though, even if your way works better, do not offer advice, because I'd be willing to bet it is not received as it was intended (to put it bluntly, you are accusing your W that she is a bad mother). Stop that, she will manage. Try to resist the urge in the future.
And do not tell your W about dates and/or no dates. It sends all sorts of weird signals and none of them good...
Other than that thumbs up on your GAL. Take care buddy...
Soccer was GREAT! I made it 90 minutes. For my body type, I think that's pretty damn good.
Went to pick up D, and W wanted to talk about parenting plan. Still wanted to swap the status quo for summer. I again refused. She offered a compromise where we would flip for just July. I'm still not buying. "Why not?" "Because I'm not planning her life on the premise that you never go back to work." "Don't worry about me." "I'm not worried about you, I'm worried about D. You cannot plan her life this way."
W then began to spew about how she doesn't know me anymore, and I'm not the man she knew. I don't say anything. This continues, and I eventually get baited into the conversation, but I'm pretty much just validating her. She eventually hits one of my buttons, but I don't react in anger, I just tell her that I see why she feels the way she does, and wonder why she doesn't accept what I am telling HER. No R talk as such, both of us are done.
W eventually apologizes for everything she has done. This has me flabbergasted. She doesn't apologize. I thank her for the apology.
W eventually tells me I look really good. I thank her for the compliment. W then asks about my date. I tell her I'm not really comfortable talking about that, but I'm sorry I brought it up. I said it our of anger, and regret doing so.
She really wants to know. REALLY REALLY wants to know. I see no harm, and tell her the truth--I HAD a date, but it got broken. She asks why, and I tell her, and in a rather surreal moment, she says, "That woman is stupid" for not going out with me.
W then bursts into tears and tells me she's been having dreams. "About what?" "About you doing things with someone else that you were only supposed to do with me." I really don't know how to respond to that.
W asks if she can have one last hug. She cries into my chest. All I can think of right at that moment is, "If I still wanted to fix this, I'm pretty sure we could." The problem is that I don't want to, anymore.
I tell W that I've about hit my limit, that I don't have the energy to keep this conversation going. Conversation turns back to D. I remind her she can see D pretty much anytime she wants. I bring up the things I've suggested that she rejected and tell her that I don't know how to do any more right by her without doing wrong by D. That she needs her mother in her life, but she needs the STRUCTURE she gets from me, too.
I THINK she says she's going to sign the papers this week. It's hard to tell through her crying.
I'd like to say you did well, but you didn't. It looks like you are acting out like a teenager. WTF would you be talking to your W (yes, she still is your W) about you dating? How does that make you any different from her? You are supposed to be a role model for your D, and right now neither you or your W are doing well in that dept.
I suggest you take a step back and take a deep breath, you have A LOT of issues of your own to take care of, before you go fire and brimstone on your W...
Kaizen already chewed me out about talking to her about that. I agree completely. I apologized for doing so, it was childish, and I was really angry when I said it to her. I don't do anger, pretty much never. It's not an emotion I can handle well, I don't have much experience. I'd take it back if I could.
Yesterday, I wasn't being a duck. She asked. Repeatedly. I also told her that I wasn't going to talk about stuff like that again. I didn't see the harm in telling her that I DIDN'T go on a date.
I don't like her right now. At all. That doesn't mean I don't care, and that doesn't mean I want to see her hurt. Seeing her hurt still hurts me.
She sent me a text last night. "Thank you for talking to me today." my response was "I still care. Always will."
I mean that.
Friday I get a text from W saying she can't pick D up at school at 3:00, and asking me if I can pick her up, and wait for MIL to come get her. I tell her, "sure, but I've got plans for tonight. D's welcome where I'm going, and if MIL isn't here by 5:00 then I'll just take her with me and you can get her tomorrow." I also remind her that D can go to after school on Friday if she needs to, and that both she and MIL are on her pickup list. Just call school and make sure she ends up in the right place.
It's kind of strange to me to go about it like this. You clearly have plans, so why not have D go to after school care in this case? It sets it up so that she is going to continue to ask you and your 'reminder' falls on deaf ears - in fact, it probably causes her to feel like you are thinking youre the 'better parent' for knowing these kinds of things.
D was pretty disappointed that I picked her up. It took a bit to get her cheered up.
Plus theres this. I find that my kids are always in a weird mood when their schedule changes without some advance discussion.
Board game group went well.
Whatd you play? I go on Mondays. I think Im lined up for 1989: Dawn of Freedom tonight.
I ask what's wrong, and remind her to make sure D knows that if mommy punishes her, that punishment WILL still be in effect when she goes home to daddy. I also give her some advice (our parenting styles are wildly different, and mine works a LOT better with D).
The punishment talk is kind of strange. Thats a weird thing to say over text. As for your advice, I also share things that I do with the kids that I find successful, but I try not to word it as 'you should try xxx.' but rather 'I do xxx and yyy and find that I get a good response.' Then she can do with that information what she wants. Rather than offering a critique, its more like just an alternative.
Yeah, I probably didn't have to remind her. As to why I did it? I got to see D on a Friday afternoon, and I got to pick her up from school in the "normal" way. In the past, Friday was always OUR day (we work half days on Friday here, and I always picked her up from school. It was special to me). Having that again for a day was actually nice.
Played Champions of Midgaard for the first time. It was a pretty cool game. I won, surprisingly enough.
The punishment talk is because it was apparently bad enough that W was getting ready to discipline (grounding). I was trying to be supportive. I didn't word it as "you should" but it was a little bit past "this is what I do."
I don't think W really knows our child, anymore. She's changed a lot in the last few months, and W wasn't there for the changes. W's parenting style can be summed up as "yelling and spanking." That hasn't worked very well with D in the past (she has her mother's temper, and a contrary streak) and I sincerely doubt it will work any better with the kid she's turning into.
If anyone wants to offer me any advice on this, I'm all ears. Here's the advice I gave her:
"She does well if you talk to her calmly. If you look at her and count, she'll settle down by 2, usually. She's been spanked once in three months. She WANTS to be good, you just have to get through to her. She also has to be able to run a little wild so she feels free. If you give her independence, then she'll settle down. And then you can threaten to take that away if you need to. She loves her friends here and she WILL be good if I tell her she won't be able to play with them if she doesn't do better."
Yeah, I probably didn't have to remind her. As to why I did it? I got to see D on a Friday afternoon, and I got to pick her up from school in the "normal" way. In the past, Friday was always OUR day (we work half days on Friday here, and I always picked her up from school. It was special to me). Having that again for a day was actually nice.
I know where youre coming from. Every minute extra you can spend with your kid is awesome. Im just all for the regularity of the schedule. Divorce is hard on kids. As much as I love seeing them, selfishly, sometimes, I think having the regularity in the scheduling helps them more than seeing me extra would.
If anyone wants to offer me any advice on this, I'm all ears. Here's the advice I gave her:
"She does well if you talk to her calmly. If you look at her and count, she'll settle down by 2, usually. She's been spanked once in three months. She WANTS to be good, you just have to get through to her. She also has to be able to run a little wild so she feels free. If you give her independence, then she'll settle down. And then you can threaten to take that away if you need to. She loves her friends here and she WILL be good if I tell her she won't be able to play with them if she doesn't do better."
I know your intent is to tell her how you parent, but can you see how it would likely come off to her as....preachy? Like, EastTN's way is the ONLY way to parent, and Mrs. EastTN isnt doing it correctly. Your goal is CO-parenting. Which means this should be collaborative. But the tone of this is that only you know what your D needs and W has to follow suit if she expects D to behave. Change the 'you's to 'I's so that she can weigh that against her style and figure out what works best at each place.
Played Champions of Midgaard for the first time. It was a pretty cool game. I won, surprisingly enough.
I played that once. Wasnt a huge fan. Wish you got more 'special powers' that let you actually be better round to round. Glad you had fun!
I agree about messing with her schedule. I hated that she did it. Since the schedule was messed with anyway, though, I went with it. In the future, I'll tell them to send her to after school. The fact that D was disappointed to see me really made me sad, too.
Yes, I see how I came off as preachy. I'll try to be more aware of how I'm saying what I'm saying.
W sent me a spewing text last night about how D didn't want to go out to dinner with her on Thursday, and didn't want to go to her house on mother's say, and how this was all my fault, and BS. I just said "All I say to her is "mommy loves you, daddy loves you, and none of this is your fault."" and that I would never do anything to hurt their relationship. She didn't bother to respond.
GAL is indeed pretty fun!
My next phase of GAL starts this weekend. I have a DR appt Friday, and should get the new FAA form filled out, and I plan to be in the airport and in the air on Saturday if I can. REALLY looking forward to that, according to my logbook my last flight was in 2010, and the one before that was in 2006. "Rediscovering your hobbies" is awesome advice, especially when one of those hobbies is flying airplanes!
The spewing of guilt on everyone but themselves is an amazing thing to witness. They're so self-absorbed that they cannot help but do it.
Sounds awesome on flying East. Hope you have some great weather to catch some good sights.
^^^ that's the truth regarding the spewing.
East - flying sounds awesome to me. I hope you have a blast!
Weather for Saturday morning not good, and instructor not available in the afternoon, so flying will probably have to wait a week. I'll survive somehow, I'm sure.
I'm saying the above so I don't have to write the rest.
My intellectual friend is more than a friend, but less than something more. If I were still with my wife, I'd call what I was doing an EA. We now talk daily, for most of the evening after D is asleep. Text a bit at work and at lunch. "Good morning" is the high point of each other's day. Her hesitance about talking to someone who is still married is rapidly evaporating.
To make things even more complicated, DBing apparently works. Even when you don't want it to anymore. I spoke to W for an hour tonight. No yelling. No spewing. Just tears. Just apologies. Just regret. Just telling me she's noticed my changes. Just telling me she was happy she saw me smile today when she dropped D off after taking her to dinner, even if she was jealous it wasn't her making me smile. Just telling me to be happy and take care of myself.
Just telling me she loves me. Just telling me she misses me.
I'd have given anything for this Just a month ago.
I'm not asking for advice on this one. I just need to tell someone what a screwup I am.
You are not a screwup. You are a human being. You have to forgive yourself and believe me, forgiving oneself is the toughest thing to do.
The EA thing is not very smart, because you are in no place emotionally to be stroking the flame. I know you are lonely and that you are looking for confirmation and it is nice to be found attractive by females of the opposite sex. But you are not there yet. Your world has been shattered and you have to rebuild yourself first and trust me, you have a lot of rebuilding to do and only in hindsight will you be able to see how much you have grown...
I'd have given anything for this Just a month ago.
I get why you say you wouldnt want this. Im telling you that right now, you are still in such early days. Juts because you doint ant it today doesnt mean you wont want her back in a month or 6 months or whatever. I believe you are still in kind of a 'shock' phase where there are still tons of emotions rattling around.
My advice is to just take your time. Rushing into an unhealthy attachment to another woman isnt a solution. Rushing back into the arms of W isnt really either.
My advice is to pull back from OW and to stop having these drawn out conversations with W. Date yourself for a little bit. Explore who you are and whats important to you.
Then you can decide more about W. When youre in a good place.
East,
Don't beat yourself up, but as with Vapo and Kaizen this probably isnt' the time to do an attachment. I'm sure it give you comfort, ego stroke, confidence, but still good to just thaw out.
You don't know where you will be in a month. You might be missing your W, you might not, but do you want to risk that right now with attachment?
Best of luck.
East,
I would have to agree with everyone. I just ended an EA/PA with a lovely W. I call it an A because technically I'm still M. I ended it because I realized that I'm no where near ready for anything serious and I still have a lot of work to do internally. I also didn't think it was fair to her for me to jump into something that I'm not ready for. Not saying that you're not, but I would just advise to take it really slow with this OW if you wish to pursue it. Either way, with or without your W, you don't want to repeat the same mistakes that lead you here.
In a lot of cases the WAS can jump into a R while the LBS is left behind healing first. That is because they use a R as a "band aid" without actually fixing any issues they have. Many of those rebound R's just end up the same way though and they remain unhappy.
Again, not saying this applies to you, but did it not feel good to hear your W say those things she said to you at all?
Agree with all here. It is really hard when you snap out of your funk, start to "GAL" and then, lo and behold, discover that there are other women out there who are interested in and/or attracted to you and are also interesting/attractive themselves. A bit of a head rush and you have to step back because YOU (and I) ARE NOT READY! Bad for you, potentially bad for your D-B-ing,and, just as importantly, not fair to these other women out there who deserve to be treated RIGHT and get the BEST you... not the "just emerging from the wreckage and not ready for a new R" you.
I "woke up" to this a couple of weeks back when I finally "let myself go" with some friends while out and decided to just mix, mingle, and have some fun. I concluded that I could do that, but I needed to be careful and PERHAPS tone it down to not give anyone the wrong impression. Trust me, I enjoyed the attention, and I had forgotten how intoxicating it can be to have someone of the opposite sex look and interact with you "with interest" (and this also gave me some additional insight into my own WW), but I am still committed to doing what I need to do... with hopes of resurrecting my own marriage. I am trying to become more "outcome neutral" in terms of my happiness, yes, BUT... trying to keep my love focused on my W, wayward though she is.
Talked about all of this with therapist. She suggested that this would be a positive for me. She further said that I should stop analyzing everything and just try to live for once. So I did.
Went on a date. Not regretting it at all.
Well East, whatever floats your boat. Best of luck buddy.
W went to my lawyer's office on Friday and signed the agreement. Divorce should be final late July.
I'm of two minds. I'm "happy" that the things I was worried about aren't going to happen now. I'm not happy because W was crying her eyes out when she did it. I still also feel like a failure because our marriage failed.
W has been spewing. Telling me how much she hates me (and then telling me she doesn't). Telling me that the last few months when she has been looking at me with disgust and contempt, it was really sadness and longing (for me). D spent all weekend with her grandmother instead of W. According to MIL, it's because W didn't want to do ANYTHING at all.
I'm sad and angry. Sad for obvious reasons. I didn't want to move on, hoping that she would come back. At some point I stopped wanting that. One foot in front of the other. Angry because I'm being blamed. Angry because if what she's saying is true, I was supposed to read her mind to know that she just wanted her husband, and beat my head against the wall of rejection. Angry because it feels like W didn't want me until someone else did. Angry because I'm mad at myself.
Dating... wow. the date I went on was the best one I'd been on in my entire life. Chemistry. The kind of thing that only happens in movies. We practically kissed at dinner. We DID miss the entire movie because we were busy kissing. Four dates in two weeks. Each one better than the last. Incredible!
That ended last night. W's spewing got to me. I ended up spewing back. GF never wanted to be in the middle of a marriage. She bowed out. I could have made her stay, but then she wouldn't be her, and something beautiful would be gone from the world forever. I don't understand the relationship I had with her. But it was amazing. If we'd met a few months from now, at the right time, I can't even imagine how good my life would have ended up being.
Talked to W last night. I made her promise to get help. We'll see what happens. I still don't want her. If I went back, it would be to make HER happy and not ME happy. Maybe someday. I don't know.
W went to my lawyer's office on Friday and signed the
Dating... wow. the date I went on was the best one I'd been on in my entire life. Chemistry. The kind of thing that only happens in movies. We practically kissed at dinner. We DID miss the entire movie because we were busy kissing. Four dates in two weeks. Each one better than the last. Incredible!
That ended last night. W's spewing got to me. I ended up spewing back. GF never wanted to be in the middle of a marriage. She bowed out. I could have made her stay, but then she wouldn't be her, and something beautiful would be gone from the world forever. I don't understand the relationship I had with her. But it was amazing. If we'd met a few months from now, at the right time, I can't even imagine how good my life would have ended up being.
Talked to W last night. I made her promise to get help. We'll see what happens. I still don't want her. If I went back, it would be to make HER happy and not ME happy. Maybe someday. I don't know.
Ahhhhh, one thing you cannot make anyone do anything. You couldn't have "made" GF stay. It would have to be her choice. Sure, you made wife promise to get help, but you can't make her actually get help.
You can't make anyone do anything. Nor should you ever want to. You want others choices to be their's and pure. Always.
I know I can't make W get help. But I could make per promise, and I did. She needs to be a mom again. I hope she gets it.
I disagree about making GF stay. I could have. Like I said, I don't understand our relationship, but neither one of us had any kind of defenses against the other. Stuff like thhat doesn't happen in real life.
I could have TOLD her to stay... and she would have. But she wouldn't have been her, anymore.
I'm agreeing with you, Ginger, about choices being pure.
Telling and making are 2 different things. You can tell anyone anything you want.
You couldn't have made GF stay. You could have TOLD her to, but it would have been her CHOICE to, although not for the right reasons.
You TOLD your wife to promise to get help. It was her CHOICE to say she would. You didn't make her promise.
Letting control go is not easy. We all want to control situations for the best outcome.
Us humans, however, in most circumstances have free will.
And who knows, maybe one day down the line, you and GF will meet again when the time is right and it will be free will to be together. you really never know.
Dating... wow. the date I went on was the best one I'd been on in my entire life. Chemistry. The kind of thing that only happens in movies. We practically kissed at dinner. We DID miss the entire movie because we were busy kissing. Four dates in two weeks. Each one better than the last. Incredible!
Im glad you had a good time. I just want to warn you to approach these kinds of relationships carefully. How would ou say this relationship is different from any of the affairs you read about on here? Hot and heavy at first because its something new and different. Makes you want to ignore warning signs and move forward at light speed. Im not saying that its BAD, just that you need to kind of keep some perspective. You know this girl for two weeks and youre already picturing a great life together; youre already ready to settle down with this girl and youve only spent what, like 20 hours together?
Talked to W last night. I made her promise to get help. We'll see what happens. I still don't want her. If I went back, it would be to make HER happy and not ME happy. Maybe someday. I don't know.
You talk about W spewing and you spewing and now youre talking again about her getting therapy and so on. Honestly, this sounds like a ton of communication for someone thats 'moved on'. I imagine that GF could sense your remaining attachment to W. Just my 2 cents.
Slow is on the menu. I have a six year old girl to think about, and I don't have the luxury of giving my heart away easily.
W and I have communicated more in the last couple of days than the last couple of years. The conclusions we've come to though are that this really is over. That we'll hurt each other more and not fix our relationship. That we actually want to be friends again one day, and brutally hurting each other is not going to support that goal.
East - How do you feel after those conversations? Do you feel a sense of relief or do have second thoughts?
Of COURSE I have second thoughts.
I swore to spend my life with this woman. That she hurt me brutally doesn't change my perception that there is a tiny hole in my heart that will never be filled because it's shaped exactly like her. Nothing else will ever fit there. Someone else will fit into a different place in my heart some day, but not that place.
If I went back, it would be for all the wrong reasons. It would be my inner Nice Guy doing what he always does. I fight against his dumb ass EVERY DAMN DAY. Sometimes he wins, and when he does, it causes me NOTHING but huge amounts of pain.
W doesn't want me enough to get rid of OM (she finally admitted the EA with OM1 and EA/PA with Florida. I still don't have all the truth, but I have enough truth for me to finally let that go). She wanted to keep both of us.
I still love her. Always will. I made that choice. What she does doesn't affect that. But I'm going to love her as my daughter's mother, and not my wife. I really do want to be friends with her again, someday. I want our daughter to have, if not an intact family, at least a pair of parents that love and respect each other, even if they don't want to be with each other.
So the general advice here has been "stop letting W's parenting (or lack thereof) get to you" but something happened on Friday that's a real problem for me. Not a "this makes me feel bad" problem, but a real problem.
D was sick (W says strep) and went to the doctor. After appointment, W had D call me and ask for money for "medicine and popsicles" because W apparently didn't have any money. I was over 50 miles away, and W put D in the middle of an adult conversation, and in the position of asking me for something I couldn't deliver (and I'm pretty sure wasn't really necessary, anyway).
I say I'm pretty sure this was unnecessary because I later got a text from W spewing about how she sees there are things more important than D, and she'd get the money somehow. Complained that the antibiotics were over $60 (but she has a debit card for medical expenses, which means to her the cost was actually $0). The "desperately needed money" was $10 for tylenol and popsicles.
So I basically feel that W just tried to weaponize D. What the hell can I do about that?
The only thing you can do is explain to D your side of things. Of course, she's so young it won't make much sense to her. But the best you can do is stay calm and apply logic to the situation. Because your W is clearly in an emotion state that's only going to continue to cause harm. I know you were cool with being friends with W, but that has to exit your mind at this moment. You can't be friends with someone who is intentionally trying to turn your D against. Especially at a time like this.
W is hurting. Badly. It's killing me. "Nice guy" screaming at me to make everything better. Heart is screaming at me that it loves two different people, and it's not especially happy about that. Brain is screaming at me that I'm in way over my head.
Yay.
Who are the two different people your heart loves? Two personalities of your wife?
Three people, then.
I love the person W used to be. I love the broken, damaged person that she is today, despite everything that she has done to me, and everything that is wrong with her.
And I love the nice girl that I've gotten to know and spent a ridiculous amount of time with over the last month. Who is trusting me not to hurt her (and if nothing else, trust is actually something I'm worthy of, and I won't let her down no matter what it costs me personally).
I'm terrible at following advice. Really, really, bad. This is a problem of my own making. I could have easily avoided ending up here if I'd listened to the people who gave me great advice.
I honestly believed W was done with me. That there was no future there. I wanted to date just to feel normal. I didn't expect to walk into what I walked into. Didn't expect to meet myself with an XX chromosome.
Self sabotage is a way of life for me.
Oh EastTN.....
I am 9 years out. And I still confuse something big time and get called out on it often:
Love vs. infatuation. You are infatuated with that girl you dated. You are infatuated with the way she makes you feel and the pain she puts a Band-Aid on. By admitting your love for your W, you ARE violating this new girls trust if you are still involved with her and she doesn't know you are still in love with your wife.
Let's take her out of the equation.
And perhaps your W. Take some time to fall in love with you.
It's really not infatuation, and not a band-aid. It's ridiculous chemistry, which usually only happens in Hollywood. If you drew a venn diagram of us, it would show extreme overlap, and leave just enough difference to make things interesting. Those differences are pronounced. In other people they would lead to conflict. In this case, they just make things more interesting.
I've gone from one relationship to another before, and felt the feelings before, and it's not like that this time. Not "I love you because of how you make me feel" or "I love you because you represent something." Both of us are desperately trying to find the negatives with each other because we're not seeing them.
She also knows how I feel about W. She knows more about me than is probably healthy. I have zero defenses against her, she has zero against me. I have been more "ME" in the last month than in my entire adult life. I don't have to hide who I am, because through some quirk of fate, I've managed to meet someone like me. Never had that before. Not once in my life.
Sounds like A talk, I'm sure. But I don't think it is. The analyst in me (and he never stops analyzing. Never. EVER. Since I was a kid. Not even when I sleep) basically turns off when she's around. That's never happened. Not once in my life. When she's not around, he analyzes, and usually gives up.
Scared to death of this situation. The people who know me best are telling me to stay the course on this one, because they've never heard this before. All of them know I self sabotage, and they're screaming at me not to sabotage this.
I still hurt because W is hurting. I still feel guilty about that. Won't ever stop loving her, either. Wish I wasn't in the mess I'm in.
If the chain of events hadn't happened just so, I wouldn't be. I think I'd be poorer for that, if in a less complicated life.
One month and it's love while you love your wife also? because you aren't finding negatives in ONE MONTH?
And not sabotage what? And this is going from marriage right into a relationship. No a relationship to a relationship.
You can't be your W's savior while loving another woman.
You are one who really really needs space from ALL of it for a while. I think you need to fully get out of the mess you are in before you insert yourself in someone else's life. You had mentioned she expressed not wanting to be caught up in all of this. You aren't even divorced yet and still wanting to be your W's savior.
But I know, when things feel so good, as they do with this woman you love after one month...... you aren't going to hear that.
Just come back and read this post once in a while.
Endorphins. Seratonin. Oxytocin. All the giddy chemicals in your brain. We have all had them before. (Maybe you haven't, idunno.) That's not "all" love is about because that lasts, oh, I think, like 9-12 months tops, right? You are still a married man. And a married man with feelings, still for your spouse. You need to act like it and resolve that sitch before you go looking for love elsewhere. Anything else is unfair to all involved. Including, even, to yourself.
I admit to myself I can't be W's savior. W has to save herself.
I also know that W can probably never come home, no matter if I am with someone else or by myself. I don't know that I could ever live with her again after everything that happened. Ever trust again. That doesn't make it not hurt, though.
You'll laugh, but I reread every post since the first one every week or two to see where I was, where I am, and where I'm going. I see where I've screwed up. I'm not exactly thrilled with my progress, but I think I'm doing fairly well as a man. Weight loss continues to progress (263 this morning. According to Dr, I started at 344 not 338, so that's over 80 lbs so far). GAL goes fairly well. Trying to prevent self destructive behavior is hard, but manageable. Therapy continues to go well, I think C is happy with my progress.
I still AM screwing up, but I don't know how not to do that, because as far as inserting myself into someone's life goes, I've already done that. I can't take that back. Trying to would cause Harm. What's the upside to hurting someone I love and who loves me? I know I have trouble separating "nice guy" from "right thing to do" but walking away from this strikes me as Wrong, for more than one reason.
Not being there for W also strikes me as Wrong but THAT really isn't something I can control in any case.
I see where you're coming from. I'm intellectually honest by nature. I may be really bad at following advice, but that doesn't mean I don't listen to it, process it, and try to learn from it. My key observation here, though, is that something is Different. In a way that has never happened in my life. Don't I owe it to myself to see where that goes? No matter how I ended up here? Don't I owe it to GF to live up to the trust she's placed in me?
I don't have good answers. I go through periods of severe guilt, likely because I don't believe I deserve what's happening. And also because I'm loyal by nature. Giving up on someone makes me feel like a failure. I've never been with someone who was the mother of my child before, and that just squares the feelings. Being the cause of W's pain (if not the genesis of it) messes with me in all sorts of ways.
I just keep putting one foot in front of the other. I hope that takes me where I'm supposed to be when I'm supposed to be there.
as far as inserting myself into someone's life goes, I've already done that. I can't take that back. Trying to would cause Harm. What's the upside to hurting someone I love and who loves me? I know I have trouble separating "nice guy" from "right thing to do" but walking away from this strikes me as Wrong, for more than one reason.
My key observation here, though, is that something is Different. In a way that has never happened in my life. Don't I owe it to myself to see where that goes? No matter how I ended up here? Don't I owe it to GF to live up to the trust she's placed in me?
I imagine my ex would have written this word for word about AP. And many others on here.
To me, it reads like you were susceptible to falling for someone and have convinced yourself that this is the ONE. Look, she certainly might be and you may have gotten extremely lucky that the very first person you went out with was a perfect match. I know for me, I explained away all kinds of issues with the first few people I went out with after D. I was so low that it was so exciting to feel wanted or to feel valued that honestly, he other person could have said or done anything and Id have been head over heels.
Im hoping for the best for you though. Keep posting!
I know for me, I explained away all kinds of issues with the first few people I went out with after D. I was so low that it was so exciting to feel wanted or to feel valued that honestly, he other person could have said or done anything and Id have been head over heels.
^^^^^^^THIS!
When you are a LBS in this sitch, after the rejection and pain you have felt, to go out and get ANY interest from a member of the opposite sex is INTOXICATING. I found this out a few weeks back when I went out with friends (I currently am dealing with a WW who is in an A that she wont end) and, for the first time since BD in January, just allowed myself to relax, have fun, talk to people, "work the room" etc. I have always been (or at least used to be, back in the day) a fairly gregarious sort and can be a fun conversationalist. I found myself talking to and meeting numerous people, several of the opposite sex, some of whom were quite interesting in flirting, at least. I was simply blown away, ego stoked, etc., and almost, ALMOST let myself get carried away. Not that I would have "done anything", but even flirting can go too far and can result in people getting the wrong idea and/or feelings being hurt, etc. I had to briefly remind myself that I was still married, still committed to saving that marriage, etc. etc. (Though I am not wearing my ring, currently) And intoxicated rush was just with a few random females, none of whom I would have said were "girl of my dreams" candidates. I cant imagine how hard it would have been had someone truly "interesting" crossed my path.
You need to be very careful. Your emotions have been and quite probably are still in turmoil. Consider the possibilities that 1) you are not relationship ready right now 2) Even if you are, now might not be the right time and 3) you have unfinished business with and arguably moral/ethical obligations to your spouse (to whom you are still legally married).