Hello - I'm new here and needed to write about some of the things I've been dealing with - hope I'm not doing anything wrong.
My wife and I are in our mid-30s and have been married over 10 years - childhood friends and dated in High School. We have two young children. Our relationship has gone through its ups and downs, but we were always able to persevere. Sex life was great - 1-3 times per week. We spent time together everyday (not always quality time). And we have very few conflicts regarding friends and family. My wife had been telling me she felt I wasn't emotionally open to her - and I've had a hard time with this throughout my life - but I open up to her the most.
Anyway, two weeks ago I found out that she is having an affair. We just had sex and I noticed she left her phone in the kitchen and I had (over the past few weeks) a worry that she may have cheated on me so I looked on her phone. I then confronted her and she told me everything. What I didn't expect to find out - this affair had been going on for two years.
She told me that she had not felt emotionally connected to me (however, in my defense - she wasn't clear on how I could improve this). And two years ago I asked her if she had ever had an affair on me and she told me 'no'. She said she was hurt that I asked her and decided to sign up to the well known affair website (A.M.) and met this other guy. They talked for a while, met up and eventually had sex on multiple occasions. She told me about the sex - which ended up being acts that I thought were special/private between the two of us - something we shared only together. She brought sex toys/lingerie that I bought her and used it with him.
I was devastated - I still am. So much hurt, betrayal, disrespect, disgust - and at the same time I love her. I told her that we need to continue living our lives together - for the kids - until I can decide what to do. She has been open with me about all my questions. She went for STD testing (negative). She ended the relationship with the other man. She says she wants to be with me and loves me. One of my issues is - she told me she doesn't regret that she did it. She said that she hopes this will make our relationships stronger.
Currently - I've been trying to work on the relationship. We've had sex again and have been very touchy. I think we feel much more connected. However, when she isn't around - all I do is think about what happened and judge myself. How can I forgive her? How can I trust her? Should I be with someone that disrespected me like that? I think about how selfish and inconsiderate she was.
I keep telling myself - it's only been two weeks. I've talked with a counselor - but I have no other supports except her. I'm scared to tell people because 'what will they think of her? and me?' If I decide the relationship can't be saved - I have no problem telling everyone and know I'll have support. The other piece I'm struggling with - should the 'other man's' spouse be told? We've had a couple arguments about this as I think I should tell her - but my wife, of course, is worried about how it will effect him.
Feel free to comment or ask any questions - I think it was helpful to sort my thoughts and type this up.
Hello NewGuy2,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.I went ahead and moved your post to Newcomers so that more people will see it and be able to offer support.
Little compares to the devastation people feel when they discover their spouse has been unfaithful. Couples often struggle to get past intense emotional pain, mistrust, resentment and never ending arguments about the betrayal. Healing from infidelity is achievable for both of you with the right support and tools.
Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Hi Newguy,
Sorry you're here, but glad you found this place. Keep posting frequently and you'll get more input from other people. I'm short on time so I'll respond more to your sitch later, but just wanted to say welcome, and hang in there. There are some very wise, kind people here who will help you through this.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Newguy,
Sorry you are here but it is a good place to be when dealing with these kinds of issues.
If your W is telling you she doesn't regret what she did, then she is VERY much still a WW and you should NOT consider the A over.
I busted my W and kicked her out of the house but then started trying to R. I had suggested that we meet once a week to talk for an hour an on the very first meeting, she told me that she didn't know if she was sorry for what she did because she said it "gave her strength." WTF!?!?!?! Then the A started again and I didn't find out for another 2 months.
If your W is not remorseful, the A is still going on or will start again. Do NOT trust anything she says so long as this is her attitude?
Have you gone to MC? I'd be interested to know if she is willing to go and if so what is her behavior when she does.
Do you have the book yet?
You'e also got to spend some time working on your issues. Detach, 180 and GAL.
So sorry you're here!
You're being blamed for her bad behavior. The idea that she was so hurt that you didn't trust her that she threw your trust away is BS. Don't accept that.
Thanks everyone.
We are planning to go to marriage counseling and she is setting it up. We are on a waitlist and there is not much available in our area. I think that she wants to work on our relationship. I think she is trying to be honest with me about how she feels and I know she is torn with letting the other relationship go. She initially told the other guy that I discovered everything and that they shouldn't have contact anymore by text - so I was able to view it. He contacted her a week later to 'check-in' and it was through her work phone, so I was very shook up by it. I thought they only method of comm. was through text, which I could monitor. She told me that she told him it was over and he agreed. Now I'm uncomfortable with her going anywhere without me because I can't trust her... where previously I had huge trust in her.
Our relationship is moving back to where it used to be. We're getting setup into our old routines. At the same time I think we are feeling much closure. When I'm with her I feel like everything is fine - when I'm away from her I get caught up in the hurt, anger, frustration and question why I'm staying with her. I think I need to make a decision on whether I want to stay in the marriage or leave it... I think I'm just afraid to make an emotional decision that it's best for me. And how much time should I give myself to make this decision? I guess when the strong emotions subside more.
I don't have any of Michelle's books yet - which one would be best to start? Divorce Remedy, Divorce Busting, Healing from Infidelity? I've already read through the book 'After the Affair'.
I join the others in welcoming you to our family of divorce busters. Most of the members here are what we call the left behind spouse, even if their significant other has not actually walked away. When I joined the board, I was the spouse who was seriously considering leaving my H. I was having an EA with another man. I had become someone my family did not know......and I did not recognize myself. I was caught up in a fantasy and reacting to harbored resentment and disrespect for my H.........and I know now that I was rebelling.
When I read Divorce Remedy, I felt it was written for those who wanted to save their M, and I wasn't at all sure that's what I wanted. However, there were people on this board who took the time to talk to me and pass along information that I needed. Ten years later, I am still in my MR. I owe a lot to the DB board, and I have tried to dedicate what I have learned through my own experience......and studying the subjects of wayward spouses, walk-away spouses, and a little on mid-life crisis.
Sticking with the DB board is one of the best sources of information and encouragement you can have. You will probably go through various stages of emotions as you do the hardest work of your life. You may be tempted to give up. I hope you won't. We are going to tell you how to do things that will seem completely opposite to what your feelings are dictating.
The more background information about your marriage, and maybe even share what kind of childhood you and wife experienced, helps to give us a better view.
For now, I encourage you to read the links Cadet has provided you in his post. Get a copy of Divorce Remedy to read. I understand that you are eager to have answers, and you will get them. These links and the book hold many answers there, so don't skim over it too quickly.
I will post again and give my advice from the viewpoint of what I have learned. For now, I suggest you not make any grand decisions until getting some DB skills under your belt. We are your support group. If you have one trustworthy friend who won't repeat your story to his wife, then you might consider talking to him as a way of venting........but if he tells his W, there's a big chance of rumors starting. I would refrain from discussing it with close family members at this time, b/c after the MR is reconciled.......family tends to have a harder time with forgiving the in-law that caused your pain. Know what I mean?
As for telling the OM's wife, there are mixed views about it. What do you wish to accomplish by informing the OM's wife? Are you hoping she will pull back the reigns on him, insuring the end of the affair? Sometimes, it works and sometime it throws the affair partners together. So, tell us if the OM has children and if he stands to lose a great deal of money if his W divorces him. Do you know the OM personally?
I echo Sandi's remarks.
And I applaud your ability to not simply "react". You're being thoughtful and self aware and not putting your ego or anger ahead of your children and marriage.
Your wife seems to have put her ego or some needs ahead of your family and you, and she certainly broke your trust. That is a given.
We can all pile on here about how wrong she is/was...but for now, I think it's about you reeling from a recent discovery that really really hurts.
If you can get some DB coaching, I would highly HIGHLY recommend it. Especially since your MC appointment is delayed. I found their advice to be very specifically aimed at my situation, with strategies. It certainly extended my m, and it has helped ME as a person, tremendously. Plus it helps to just come here and get constructive feedback.
Also, at some point your w will need IC as will you. Which you cannot force at this juncture. But this is NOT simply a "couple's problem". You are deeply wounded & hurt.
She is at best, utterly lacking self awareness & her moral compass is askew. She's not connecting her behavior with your pain.
( If she never does connect those, we can have another conversation).
There is a cultural shift these days about the whole AM website. Just look at its' goal.
Hang in there and if at all possible, get some IC for just you.
In addition to the questions Sandi has asked,
can you tell us if you have read the book "The Five Love Languages"?
I am NOT a fan of exposing affairs of others or of exposing your w's.
(I really don't think it's a DB tenet, either).
There's a huge risk it'll backfire. Especially since your w does not YET believe she's really done wrong. You said something like She thinks it's made your m, stronger...as odd as that seems. So for you to take it upon yourself to tell OM's w, though you can claim it's the "righteous thing to do!",
dig deeper about whether you are really trying to help someone or mete out some punishment. I understand the rage. Dear God, I do.
But If reconciliation is your goal at the moment, I strongly believe exposure will not assist you.
See if you can Call a DB coach
(and no, I don't get a kickback for suggesting this!)
I just a Godsend for a DB coach, to whom I'm still grateful.
I'm glad I have been patient and slowly moving through this process - even when the emotions were strongly pushing me in one direction or another.
To give you perspective on our relationship - we dated in High School. First girlfriend I ever had. She had dated and had other relationships. She has deep struggles with feeling unlovable. I have deep struggles with inadequacy (not being good enough in most things I do). She's extroverted, I'm introverted. She has no interest in my interests - such as types of books, movies, etc. so I try to take time for myself to do things I enjoy. She feels lonely and unconnected if we aren't spending a lot of time together. We lost a lot of connection as she started an extra job and only wants to talk about work - which I don't mind for a bit, but it's difficult to only talk about that.
I haven't told anyone about the Affair, except my counselor. I've 2 sessions with her. My wife has one friend that was aware of it (but didn't know the extent of it). My wife and I have been talking about what happened and supporting each other through it. Currently she wants to stay with me and work on the relationship. We talked over a lot of the things that have been bothering me and she thinks I'm misunderstanding her. She tells me she does regret the affair, but can't change that it happened. She continues to report no contact from the other guy since she told him she needed to end things.
I thought about telling the spouse of the other guy because I think she should know... and a part of me also wants to stir pain up for him. His wife and he have children as well and I don't know any of them at all. I'm not worried about my wife and him being drawn together if I were to tell the spouse - as this would tell me that she is not choosing me. However, a part of me knows telling would stir up a lot of turmoil and I think my wife would feel it was her fault for causing so much pain to everyone. So that is where I hesitate.
I ordered the Divorce Remedy book and am planning to read it. I think it may give me some perspective in figuring out what I want. I've also read through some articles on this site and will continue to do so.
I love my wife a lot and at the same time I feel so disrespected and betrayed that I don't know if I can forgive it. And I don't know if I want to be constantly having to 'keep an eye' on my wife. Things seem great now - but what happens 1, 2, 5 years from now? What if I put everything I have into making this relationship work and years from now she decides it's not going to work?
My wife has read the 5 languages of love and I read the articles. We talked about it in the past as a way to improve our relationship. We have gone through ups and downs and I always feel like I try my hardest to improve the relationship for her. When I don't hear problems - I tend to think things are better. I guess I thought we both shared the value of never cheating on each other - especially since I've told her I'd rather she ends our relationship instead of cheating.
love my wife a lot and at the same time I feel so disrespected and betrayed that I don't know if I can forgive it. And I don't know if I want to be constantly having to 'keep an eye' on my wife. Things seem great now - but what happens 1, 2, 5 years from now? What if I put everything I have into making this relationship work and years from now she decides it's not going to work?
An affair is the ultimate betrayal, period. If you are worried about what happens in the future, then you already know your answer.
She doesn't regret it because there's been no repercussions from it. When there are no repercussions there's a high likelihood they'll do it again.
Newguy:
I'm sorry that you are here and for you to disclose the intimate details of your W's affair,etc is very brave. That kind of courage is going to get you through this. I echo what many people here say.
Don't talk to friends and family about her A. Do get some IC as soon as you can. Even if it's not going to be a regular appt. Perhaps a clergy or some kind of local agency. Talking to a professional is so helpful. Even telling your story a few times to different counselors can really help.
I'd like to tell you my story. My W was having an EA. I suspected a PA. She denied it. I started snooping - bad idea. I got the evidence I needed - I deceived her to confess and tell me the entire story. That what was all bad.
The best thing I did for me was to confront the OM. He was 1000's of miles away so there was no real threat etc. I told him off etc. He dropped her like a stone and she was mad.
It did help me though. My standing up to the two of them and fighting for my MR etc - really made me feel like a man again. That set the tone for my building a new life. I'm 5 times the man I was when the BD happened. I've provided for my kids, improved my home, learned new skills, made new friends, etc. My W is still in her fog - but that's her business.
I'm not recommending it - I'm just sharing my story.
You are very brave - use that energy to build a new you.
We are with you.
P.S. After you are done with the MWD books - watch the LRT videos. I found them really helpful too.
Newguy2,
First the good news, you *can* forgive your W and learn to trust her again. In order for that to happen, time has to pass for you to heal, you need to *know* that you're being the best husband you can be, and your W needs to commit to the marriage. If those things happen, you can feel good again, you can trust her again, and things can be even better than they were before. That's the good news.
The bad news is that you have a limited amount of control over getting there. That seems like a simple thing to say, but it's very hard for most people to really appreciate and internalize. As humans we like to believe in cause and effect, if we do A then we get B. Unfortunately, in relationships, things don't work that way, particularly when one of the partners isn't fully committed. You can do everything 100% perfectly and still have things not work out the way you want them to and that can be very frustrating. In order for you to find peace, you need to know that if it doesn't work, it's not because you failed. You can only own your half of the relationship, and what she chooses to do does not reflect on you.
You said that you struggle with feeling "not good enough" and she struggles with feeling unlovable. Everyone has issues like this to some degree, the only difference is how well we do in coping with it. On their own, these feelings tend to create bad behavior, and our strength of character is what allows us to balance and not act out.
So think about yourself, you struggle with feeling not good enough. To deal with that, I'm sure you've learned to cope and to self-soothe to some degree, and you probably also rely upon your W and your W's affirmations to feel good about yourself. Between those two things, what you do for yourself, and what you get from your relationship, you're able to make things work. You can get through your day, have good days and bad, etc.
For your wife, she also has some capacity to take care of herself, there are some things she relies upon your relationship for, but for the last two years, she's also had a third stream to help her feel good, or self-medicate -- her affair.
Now that the affair is gone, she has a void. You know that void is there and that's why you don't trust her.
To fill that void she has two choices: (1) she can "step up" her ability to self-soothe and feel good about herself on her own, while fully committing to your relationship to be able to get more from it than she has historically, or (2) she can find another affair partner to fill the void.
Unfortunately, the first path is a lot more work for her and a lot more difficult, the second path tends to be pretty easy for most people.
The thing is, the choice is on her. It's hers to make. All you can do is be the best person you can be. You are an attractive option if you have your stuff together. Even if you knock it out of the park, however, she can still fail to commit to the relationship and/or do the work to learn to self-soothe on her own. It's a very personal issue that she has to confront.
It sounds like your M has been missing some common ground where you have divergent interests and have had (at least from her perspective) a lack of emotional intimacy. Note that the emotional intimacy she found with her affair partner was rooted in fantasy and you should not expect to be able to replace that. Your life and relationship is "real world", an affair is not, so you cannot compare the two and you cannot provide the same feelings that an affair partner does.
The great news here is that she has been willing to end the affair and seems to be motivated to make things right. I agree with everyone here that a DB telephone coach would be a good move for you, with or without MC.
The challenge with MC is that often times they are not pro-marriage and often they don't do only marriage counseling, its only one thing that they do among a range of other types of therapy. The DB coaches are experts specifically in troubled marriages.
If you do MC, I strongly suggest that you meet with the counselor 1:1 before your first session with your W. Verify that you and the counselor are aligned in terms of your philosophies and what you want, and prep the counselor on how you want things to go.
If you don't do that and walk in blind, there's a decent chance you'll get blindsided and not like it.
Good luck to you!
Acc
So it's been 17 days since I found out and 4 days since starting this thread. I've read all the responses and thought about everything. I've been reading many of the recommended articles and I should be getting the Divorce Remedy book by the end of the week.
I feel much calmer about my situation. My wife and I have been continuing to work on things and settle into routines. Intimacy has been great and I have no regrets so far. I think she truly is remorseful and I don't think she has had any contact with the other guy. I've decided not to contact the other guy or his wife (at least at this point).
With all of that said - I find myself thinking more and more about leaving the relationship. I think it's because when I found out about the affair I felt so shocked and torn up - then I started to feel fear of losing her. Now that a lot of the raw emotions are gone I keep asking myself whether I want to be in the relationship or not. I know that I love her. I think I could learn to trust her again (with a lot of work). I don't think she would slip back into the affair or get into another affair.
I guess I'm hung up with her purposely searching out an affair... going on the AM website with the intent to have an affair. I think to myself that I've put a lot of work into our relationship and tried to be the 'ideal husband'. I've never cheated, never put myself in a situation to cheat and even turned down lapdances at strip clubs because I felt it was 'wrong of me'. I always considered her and her feelings with all my choices in life. I guess I think in my head that I've always been the one to work on changing and work on the relationship. I've made many changes over the years. And in the back of my mind I know that if the tables were reversed and I had been the one to have an affair... she would have left me.
Anyway, I think this is part of the normal response. I seem to be fluctuating back and forth each day (sometimes each hour) on whether I want the relationship to work or not. I think I need to give it more time. Read through the Divorce Remedy book. Continue with IC. Maybe get Couples Counseling started. At least give myself time to make a decision that I can commit to and feel comfortable with.
Thanks for all the responses... it is much appreciated.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Newguy,
You are WAY to early in the process to be making these kinds of decisions. I can tell you that these doubts will continue for some time. I'm now just over a year in to piecing and the doubts still come to me. Even daily. In the end, I know that I am hurt but time will help. I'm angry and resentful about what my W did but I think there is tremendous value in working to save my M. Am I 100% certain that this M will work? No. But I'm willing to give it the time to find out.
My wife and I spoke about everything last night. I told her how I still feel very torn up inside about what I want to do. I explained that part of me loves her and wants to work on improving our relationship and the other part of me feels so disrespected and hurt that I don't know if I want the relationship. She was surprised. I think that she felt like I was 'in the boat' with her and trying to work past this. I explained that I 'go back and forth' between what I want and I told her there is nothing she can do to help me. I told her I just need time to bring down the emotions some more so I can make a good decision for myself.
She told me she doesn't want to have sex anymore until I figure everything out - I agreed. Before we had sex the first time we talked about how she was scared it would hurt me (bring up a lot of emotions) and I told her I was scared it would hurt her (by having sex when I could still end the relationship). The thing is - we haven't had sex without being intoxicated. But I guess it doesn't matter now - I need to respect her and not pursue sex and figure out what I want.
We also talked about the affair. She said she regrets her decision to have one. I told her that I feel sexually inadequate - that she had to pursue intimacy outside of our relationship. She told me that our sex life has always been great - however, I told her 'you say that... but your actions speak different'. The fact that she purposely pursued a sexual relationship to have an affair. Took our sex toys and lingerie to be with the other guy. And she said 'you're right'. She told me she has not had contact with him but she misses him (I can understand this).
This is such a difficult process. I remember my wife and I having problems over the years in which she would express thoughts of separating and I would want to work on things. It would happen whenever we would have arguments to the point that I felt I could never express how I really feel because she would jump to 'separation' as the solution. But I told myself that if she did it again - I was going to agree and move things toward separation. It didn't happen again. Our relationship got better... I pushed myself to put more into the relationship, be more laid back and not put as many barriers up. After discovering the affair I would have thought I would have just ended it. So why haven't I?
Looks like a high stakes version of the pursuer distancer dance to me. Seems like you guys take turns threatening to leave the marriage.
NG2,
Your sitch resonates with me, mainly on how your feelings are at the moment. My nightmare began only 5 weeks ago and I go back and forth whether its worth staying and working on it or being subject to it possibly happening again. Scary! Whichever direction we/you choose. My/Your emotions fluctuate minute to minute.
I'd like to give my opinion on exposing it to the OMW. I may be new and not "certified" to give this type of opinion, but I feel that it's one of the best thing I did regarding all this...
For one, the A a is like a sickness or an addiction and you must take every step possible to fight it off. Secondly, although she may be heartbroken the OMW will appreciate it. Deep down they don't want to be deceived either and will want to take action as well. I know if the shoe were on the other foot I'd would want to hear from the OMW. The OMW in my sitch had no clue it was going on. She was devastated but thanked me for letting he know. Yes, it might make your WW and the OM upset, but who cares, their in a FOG. It will also sends a clear message that your not messing around, that this is a clear violation of marriage that you equate it to a major (moral) crime.
In any case, again, it sends a clear message to WW and OM that they should think twice before doing it again and the effects it has on their loved ones.
Just my two cents.
Or better yet ask W to tell OMW with you in the room.
Acc
Great idea Acc! That would definitely have persuasive effect.
Ownit - I wouldn't say we take turns threatening to leave the marriage - I've never threatened to leave. And I'm not expressing ambivalence about leaving to change her behavior - there is nothing she can do to help me through this.
Regarding the OMW. I can't tell the OMW with my wife present because I don't know her. I don't know the other guy either. I have names, facebook accounts and some phone numbers. I tried to call one of the phone numbers today in case I contacted the OMW - disconnected. The other phone number had an answering machine, but I'm not sure if it's the correct phone number. I told my wife that I was going to facebook message the OMW, but she told me that the OMW would not receive the message, the 'other guy' would.
I do have the other guy's cell phone so I've thought about contacting him. I don't know what my intent with that would be - to see what he would say... to see how I would react? To pressure him to tell his wife? (Ideally I would want him to tell her). Maybe we would be respectful to each other and recognize that we both need to move on with our lives?
Telling your wife that you were doing this was not helpful, you've only made sure she and OM know about your plan, and when OMW hears from you, she will be already be prepped that you are a crazy person and nothing you say is true.
I contacted the OM years ago when I suspected something going on. He told me he was going to stay away. That didn't last. They are liars and they don't care about you. If they cared at all, they wouldn't prey on another mans W!
That being said, I didn't inform my W that I was contacting the OMW, I just did it.
You can find out who she is, just dig a little and don't tell your W.
I think she truly is remorseful and I don't think she has had any contact with the other guy.
I recommend having a transparency plan. It is to help her earn back your trust. The first time around, you gave her your trust, but after betraying that trust....she needs to earn it back. Do you get what I'm saying? For some reason, you seem to think that responsibility is on your shoulders.
The best way to monitor her actions are probably by looking at her texting activity. Now do NOT tell her in advance that you are going to look to at her phone. Do not have a regular time that you check it. If she is not being honest, or if she slides back into the affair.....she will know to keep her phone activity concealed.
First thing is ask her if she is willing to agree to be transparent about her activity, in order to help you get through this painful time. (And btw, don't repeat every word we say to her, okay? I'm not saying to lie. There's just some things that are not to be shared at this time).
Secondly, you cannot just take her word. Cheaters lie. You need to see some type of evidence, when possible. This will not be for the rest of your life, but it's to last until she is well out of the addiction & grieving stages of ending the affair. You will determine when you feel safe. Your monitoring will taper off until you may go months between checking her text messages. Again.....do not repeat this information to her. This is just for you! Do not refer to "monitoring" her, b/c those are fightin words to a wayward wife. This is me talking to you, not you talking to her. Also, do not buy into her complaints of you intruding her privacy, b/c there should be no privacy in a MR after having an affair!
The transparency should be set according to your needs, like what you will need from her in order to support the healing from the affair. Sometimes, the H has the WW to write a letter (not email) to the OM that plainly states that she regrets the affair and how she loves her H, and that OM is to never contact her again. Then, the H checks it over and he puts it in the mail himself. You may not like that sort of thing, it's up to you.
Blocking OM on FB, email, phone, and any apps she has used in communicating with him, would show you her sincerity in ending the affair. Every time she sees a post, picture, etc. from him........it triggers her craving to contact him.
For her sake, as well as your sake, she needs to be accountable while she goes through a period of "withdrawal" from the emotions linked to the affair. The agreement to never contact OM again, is very important. Affairs are highly addictive, and your W will crave to contact him just like its her drug of choice. B/c
the affair was about how it made her feel about herself. You can support her through this time by monitoring her phone activity. It is a way she can show accountability. She should have no secret passwords from her H on email accounts, phones, etc. Of course, there are other ways she can contact him, but if she thinks you are not checking her phone....she will get careless at some point. You can tell her at the point of her agreeing to a transparency plan that you will look at the phone activity from time to time, but you will not tell her when, or in advance, or ask her to go get her phone for you to see (she would only delete what she didn't want you to see). If she is not willing to cooperate, then you have your answer about her intentions.
This is part of the work she must do to kick the addiction of her affair. It took me months to get through it (and the depression that followed), but it doesn't take some people as long. Just don't think it's something she is going to lay down without struggling in the process.
I don't think she would slip back into the affair or get into another affair.
Look, I'm sorry if I sound negative. I am trying to inform you about the pattern of wayward wives. She has to go through a process and it does not happen overnight. The M can be saved, but you have to be realistic and get informed. The fact you don't think she would get into another affair, tells me that you want to see her at her as being the girl you married. The person she is today is not the girl you first married. Don't turn a blind eye to it. The current state she is in...........you just don't know for sure what she may do.
That's why there needs to be guidelines and boundaries for the months ahead. She has hard work ahead of her, and you have a lot of healing to do. To do it all on your own, or to not get better informed about what you will be facing......is taking a big chance at divorce. I hope you will stay on the board to learn more about this problem and how to deal with the wayward wife.
I think to myself that I've put a lot of work into our relationship and tried to be the 'ideal husband'.
Ideal husband in whose opinion? How do you know what the ideal husband is for your W? Maybe she feels
she put a lot of work into the R earlier and tried to be the ideal W, and it didn't get her emotional needs met in return. IDK, I'm just saying that from I've seen, men's idea of the perfect H.....is rarely what women really need from him.
I've made many changes over the years. And in the back of my mind I know that if the tables were reversed and I had been the one to have an affair... she would have left me.
That right there ^^^^^^^^ tells me a lot about your MR. And you are correct, she would not tolerate you cheating on her! Would I be correct to say she has not tried to be as accommodating to
your feelings? When it's all one-sided, it makes for a poor relationship.
Thanks for the reply Sandi2 - you (and everyone else) is really getting me thinking about this.
I do have a 'transparency plan' - she has already told me I can check her phone. I was checking it each day the first couple of weeks - but I've told her I want to trust her and so I'm not going to check it anymore - but I'm just checking it in secret. The problem I had last week is the OM called her work phone - which set me off again because I thought they were only communicating through text. It took away my sense of control in this situation. She told me that is the last time they have communicated and she told him she didn't want contact from him again. I guess I should stay skeptical of this - but not have assumptions either way unless there is evidence.
And you're right - I want her to be the girl I married. I want my wife who is 'always' open and honest with me. It's a hard pill to swallow, but that's not what I have now. I have someone who is good at sneaking, keeping secrets and lying to me. Someone who put her own needs ahead of her respect for me.
She has told me that she misses the OM. She missed that 'void' that he filled for her. We will have to be open about communicating and make plans for dealing with this situation. We are both reading books on dealing with affairs and I should be getting the Divorce Remedy in the mail tomorrow.
I guess I tried to be the 'ideal husband' to her. I tried to make whatever changes I could for her. I agree - she probably feels like she has put all kinds of work into the relationship too. I like to think that this affair has changed us - that we will grow from it. I know that I'm surprised with how much emotional pain I've handled without emotionally reacting in a negative way.
My wife and I discussed our relationship before the affair and I told her how I never felt like I could express myself fully to her because she would get angry. I always felt like I was the one apologizing. I think I avoided the conflict and tried to mend the problems that arose, but that was sooo draining for me. I didn't want to talk with her about it because, again, it would lead me to discussing issues in our relationship (and conflict). So I would tell her "I need time to myself" which I believe led to her feeling lonely.
I think I have a lot to learn about myself and relationships. I think my primary focus needs to be on myself - building my own self-respect and self-esteem. Continuing to read any gain understanding.
I think I have a lot to learn about myself and relationships. I think my primary focus needs to be on myself - building my own self-respect and self-esteem. Continuing to read any gain understanding.
In these situations, its never just about the WW. You are spot on in realizing that YOU have a lot to learn and your focus needs to be on YOU.
As you read the "getting over the A" books, I would encourage you to talk about the things you are each reading. What things resonate with each of you?
I think you previously said something about your W not being able to do anything to help you heal. I would disagree with that. While ultimately, it is YOU that will have to come to terms with what has happened and learn to forgive and love again, I do believe that your W has an important role to play in your healing process. You will never be able to fully heal unless she is there to support you, express empathy and regret and be accountable for her choices and the pain it has caused in your R. Without that from her, you won't be able to move forward.
Update:
So a lot happened since my last post. I started to get torn up about the OM and OMW situation. I found out that all of my contact attempts to OMW were useless. So my thoughts shifted to contacting the OM. So I texted him, asked him to call me for a 'mutually respectful' talk. He agreed and called me. I told him that I'm angry about this situation and that I planned to contact his wife - but I decided to contact him to ask him some questions and I asked for him to be honest with me (I know... they lie). Anyway, I asked him a few questions about the affair, timelines, last contacts, etc. He answered me and everything lined up with what my wife told me. I originally had more in-depth questions to ask to see if I could catch my wife lying... but I decided I'm not out for a 'witch hunt'. And who knows if my wife's and his recollections would match up. So I did the few 'test questions' and everything went well. I told him how difficult this situation has been on my wife and myself - he apologized. He said he went through a difficult time in his life and that's when he connected with my wife. He said he wants to focus on his relationship with his wife (he also has kids). I asked him not to contact my wife again and he agreed. I told him that if he ever sees my wife and I in public, to quickly walk the other way before I see him.
I felt a huge weight lifted from that conversation. At this point, I feel that the OMW and OM door is closed. I know that 'they lie' and the door might get reopened by my wife or the OM... but I feel better that I made a respectful attempt to shut it.
I told my wife about the conversation (maybe this was a mistake) and that I am ready to take steps toward repairing our marriage. She expressed feeling mixed feelings. One the one hand she is happy for me and us... but she is also grieving the loss of a 'friend'. A part of me is angry about this, but I didn't show it. I told her that I understand how she will be grieving the loss of him and that me confronting him potentially drives that wedge between them much deeper. I told her that I will help support her through this as much as I can and suggested IC for her. I think our conversation went very well and we both seemed happy this morning.
She told me that she spoke with her friend yesterday (that is aware of the affair) and the friend told her she never liked the OM. She told me that the friend reminded her of times that he would discount her feelings and focus on himself. She said her conversation with the friend was very helpful - I encouraged her to keep asking for that support.
Anyway... I feel much better with the direction I'm facing. I want to work on the marriage. I received the Divorce Remedy book and will be starting to read through it. My wife also has another book she wants to read with me and discuss - and we planned a trip out of town with just the two of us. We are planning to listen to an audiobook on the way so we can discuss how we feel.
I think I'm moving in the right direction and I'm hopeful with the plans we have made. We are still on the waitlist for marriage counseling. While we wait we are going to focus on our books and communicating openly.
They are liars and they don't care about you. If they cared at all, they wouldn't prey on another mans W!
To a certain extent. But they didn't force another man's wife to open her legs, either.
Hello Newguy2,
In a previous post you asked about which of Michele's books should you get. I'm glad that you have DR and would also recommend Healing from Infidelity. It will give you and your wife the inspiration, encouragement and solutions you both need.
If you can get some DB coaching, I would highly HIGHLY recommend it. Especially since your MC appointment is delayed. I found their advice to be very specifically aimed at my situation, with strategies. It certainly extended my m, and it has helped ME as a person, tremendously. Plus it helps to just come here and get constructive feedback.
Thank you 25yearsmlc for the vote of confidence regarding the DB coaching. I'm so glad you shared your experience!
You are at a very fragile point in this relationship and it would be extremely helpful to know what your next move should be. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
I felt a huge weight lifted from that conversation. At this point, I feel that the OMW and OM door is closed. I know that 'they lie' and the door might get reopened by my wife or the OM... but I feel better that I made a respectful attempt to shut it.
If only feelings attached to the affair could be dealt with that easily. Don't be too surprised when you experience various stages of emotions (especially anger) as you work at moving forward from here.
I told my wife about the conversation (maybe this was a mistake) and that I am ready to take steps toward repairing our marriage. She expressed feeling mixed feelings. One the one hand she is happy for me and us... but she is also grieving the loss of a 'friend'. A part of me is angry about this, but I didn't show it.
If you expect her to feel the same emotions and/or be on the same level of healing as you..........then you are in for a most upsetting time. She cannot just shut down her feelings, b/c she has agreed to not contact OM again. Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying you have to emphasize or pet her while she's nursing feelings for another man. She can't nurse those feelings. She has to learn what to do to get back to a healthy mindset so she can work on her M. You talked to OM and felt good afterwards. But those were
your feelings, not
hers. She can't put her feelings in a box with a pretty bow on top. It's not that simple for either of you.
So, you are ready to work on the M. Considering how you previously tried to be the ideal H, have you thought about the changes you will make?
How does she select her reading material?
Thanks for the response Sandi2.
Yes, I know the feelings are going to resurface (they already are). I guess I think that the impulse to act toward the OM and OMW is a door closed. Because I made a choice on how I would act and followed it through.
I can understand that my wife and I are still in for the emotional rollercoaster. Who knows how we will handle our next conflict. We are on the waitlist for MC. I started reading the Divorce Remedy. My wife finished 'After the Affair' (which I already read) and we are planning to listen to the audiobook on an upcoming trip so we can discuss it.
I can understand that she's going through her own emotional process and she can't just shut off her emotions. I don't exactly know what I'm going to do to change. We've both decided to cut back on work and other 'extras' that add stress to our life (and our relationship/family). I'm going to prioritize time with her more often. I'm going to try to be there for her and support her through difficulties. I think we are just guessing what each other needs as we need time to talk about it. I think it's important to take small steps in the direction of working on our marriage so that the changes stick. IF I make too many changes too quickly I think I might slip back into old habits.
How are things going, Newguy?
Thanks for checking in Sandi2.
I've been continuing to read the Divorce Remedy - finished most of it. I had to take a break from reading and thinking about the affair. I'm continuing with individual counseling and we have a date for Marriage Counseling in two weeks.
Things were going very well for us. I felt we were getting to a good place. We had a trip out of town, just the two of us. We stayed overnight at a hotel and went shopping together - it was great. Then the drive home came and I started to think about the affair. So I discussed with my wife the things that upset me and it turned into a big argument. She kept asking me not to talk about it because she didn't want it to ruin our trip - but I persisted. What really triggered my anger was that she is now telling me that the affair had gone on for 3-3.5 years and not 2 years as I understood it. Why is this so important to me? Because it makes me think she is lying. She originally told me the affair wasn't happening during a certain event in our life, then she tells me it was happening before then. So I told her that I hate all the lies and I brought up the 'how they contacted each other' as an example. She originally told me they only contact by text message. Then I found out he called her at work. So in the car she laid it out, text message, phone calls, snapchat. Now I assumed they used snapchat with each other... but this was the first I had heard about it. So of course my mind went to all the 'pictures' they sent each other and how she used to send me pictures. And all I could think is that she sent him the same/or more. Again - this is another example of things I thought were personal/private between us that is no longer 'special' just between us.
The car ride got very silent after she said she doesn't want to be in a relationship in which she keeps getting "beat up" by the things she had done. I believe she is having a hard time with her own guilt/shame. I calmed down and diffused the situation - I explained that we need to talk about these things. Once things cooled down even more I apologized to her for pushing the subject and ruining a good trip (even though I told her I wasn't going to apologize during our argument). I told her I love her and this situation hurts very bad. My wife and I have moved on from that conflict... I explained to her that we sometimes need to have 'blow ups' in order to process the situation - I think she agrees.
My wife's old boyfriend from 20 years ago contacted her on the past weekend - he is having troubles in his relationship. My wife told me that his wife is jealous of my wife because they used to date. I'm not threatened by the ex-boyfriend because I know that my wife wouldn't pursue it and she showed me everything he said and her responses. However, I decided to take it upon myself to message him and tell him not to contact her anymore. I was very respectful and after some light discussion he agreed. He said I shouldn't be threatened by him - but I don't like that it happened and I don't like that his wife probably doesn't know. I guess I'm turning into a moral crusader or something. My wife was surprised that I messaged him because it's out of character for me to confront people - but I think it's important that I do it more often.
Yesterday was a very difficult day. I kept thinking about how inconsiderate and disrespectful the affair was to me. I was home taking care of the kids, encouraging my wife to go on shopping trips and trainings - while she was visiting her affair partner. I kept thinking about the snapchat stuff. That our relationship really wasn't that bad (which obviously it was on her end) that I'm such a good man who didn't deserve all this [censored]. So I spoke with her about it last night. I told her how I'm still feeling ambivalent about the relationship. She took it very well. She answered questions I asked, comforted me when I was crying and told me that 'we will both be better people in the end - whether we are together or not'. She reassured me that she wants to be with me and told me she made a huge mistake. She said she will keep putting in the effort unless I decide the relationship is over. Even if the relationship doesn't make it - I think we can remain friendly.
I noticed I just wrote a book. In summary I'm still on the emotional rollercoaster. I thought I was coasting along with certainty and I was wrong. I have a big decision to make and I need to give myself more time. I love my wife so much... I love our life together... I love our kids. And at the same time, I don't know if I want to put the work in to repair. I feel like I put so much effort over the years to improve the relationship and it only resulted in an affair. I question whether we are truly compatible. Maybe I would be happier (and her) with someone else. My wife is the ONLY girl I've EVER dated, EVER kissed/hugged intimately, EVER had sex, EVER had a relationship. Maybe that's why I'm so clingy?
Newguy2, what you are going through and feeling is *totally normal*. You need to process the stages of grief -- denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance. You don't go through them linearly, they will come and go. You will reach acceptance and then go back to anger, it's normal.
Both you and your wife need to understand this is a process -- the way things are now is *not* how they will always be. Humans fall into that trap easily of believing that today's problems will last forever. Eventually you will put this behind you but it may not be on either of your timelines and will undoubtedly require pain and investment along the way.
In my case I went through all the same feelings you've described -- I was a good husband, why did I deserve this, it was such a betrayal, etc. etc. What my IC told me is that often these feelings come in waves, the wave will just overcome you and you'll go from feeling okay to feeling terrible. She said that over time, they'll come less frequently, they won't last as long when they do come, but unfortunately the last thing to go will be the intensity.
One thing to think about is discussing SSRI's with your doctor. I know its a highly controversial topic and that it [censored] that you would need to consider medication when you're not the one that had the affair. I started a course after my second BD with all kinds of misgivings about doing so. What they do is that they prevent you from dwelling on negative thoughts, that's it. If that would help you, think about it.
Your situation is totally recoverable -- be the best husband you can be. If you're the best person you can be and acting as a husband only a fool would leave, then you will have no regrets and no guilt. If she stays, you'll feel confident that there is no emotional room in your relationship for an affair partner because you're "all that". If she leaves, you'll know it's because she's a fool and not because of your failings. It's a foolproof plan.
Don't fall into the trap of comparing yourself to OM or feeling that you don't measure up in some way, or that she did things for him that she would not do for you. That's a cheeseless tunnel. Affairs are based in fantasy, your relationship is reality. Affairs don't have a sink full of dirty dishes, tired people at the end of a work day, crying children, money problems, etc. and those things, along with the good times, are what make a relationship real. She was not her "real" self with him, nor was he with her, they couldn't be, and their brains forced them to ignore each other's downsides and personality issues. In the long run all of that would come to bear.
My exW had several EA's and one PA, she was on a tear! One after another. Since we've been divorced for three years she's dated one guy for two months and that was it. I think the found the "real life dating" landscape to be a far cry from affair land. You don't have to compete with that, no one in the real world can.
Acc
Wow, I remember riding that emotional rollercoaster. Its hard and I feel for you Newguy2, I really do.
Accuray said it best. At first you are going to go through massive waves of emotions, but in time this will be less frequent.
The grieving process is hard and I know I didn't handle it very well. Anger, sadness, depression, are all things that I struggled with. Then came forgiveness...which is one that most people have a hard time with and so did I. You will have to do some major soul searching to see if you can TRULY forgive her. It is a long process though so hang in there.
Thanks for the responses.
I am continuing to focus on myself. I really need to decide who I am and what I want for myself and my life. Whatever I decide will be the best decision for myself - I just need to get the emotions down to a less intense level so I can make a good decision.
I also understand I'm getting myself caught in a lot of 'traps', cheeseless tunnels, cognitive distortions, etc. Because the thoughts keep crossing my mind I feel it's important to share it with my wife to help me 'get it out'. I think she has been supportive with this and as I mentioned it comes in waves. I was talking about it in IC - but I sort of expressed I was doing well and asked to space out the sessions. Oops. Fortunately my next session is early next week.
I am taking an antidepressant - I actually started it a week or two prior to the discovery. I've been on an antidepressant in the past and told my wife I noticed myself struggling so I decided to restart the medication to be proactive.
Glad to hear you're taking care of yourself! Remember to separate what happened from the story you tell yourself about what happened. The "what happened" may be that your W sent OM a snapchat. The story you're telling yourself is that she sent him pictures, that they were the same as the ones she used to send you, that she did it out of disrespect for you, etc. etc. That's all the story you're telling yourself, that's not what happened. The story you tell yourself can become your reality -- don't get caught in that trap.
Acc
Agree with Acc
sometimes we have to become the "directors" of the mental movies we play in our minds, and yell "CUT!"
The "movies" are not real. We are making them up based on our worst case scenarios.
Re-direct the movie to something in YOUR life that you can do, without your w.
I don't know a way to detach without GAL.
Detachment is first, for our sanity and later on for whatever DB efforts you want to make.
So, how are the GAL activities going?
You're right. The reality is - my wife didn't have the affair or act with the OM with any consideration to me. She was acting in a way you would with a new relationship - crush stage. She felt lonely in our marriage and sought out what she thought was a solution. She wasn't doing it to spite me. She wasn't doing it to purposely hurt me.
I'm definitely filling in blanks in my head with fabricated, worse-case scenarios. I need to keep that in mind.
Right now I'm focusing on my kids, getting to the gym regularly, eating healthy, working, housework and trying to do activities that I enjoy. I think I should try to reconnect with some friends and do some things on my own.
hey Sandi, wondering if you would be so kind and have a look at mine as well. I respect your opinion
Newguy
I understand your concerns about what went into the A and how long it was, etc.
My IC told me that for the most part I need to not take my h's actions or words, personally.
I understand her point but THAT^^ is extremely difficult for me. And when I look back at the deceit that was longer than I knew, and compare it to happy family photos and a TV appearance as a "long solid marriage", it just freaks me out.
H had a lot of cognitive dissonance. I suspect your w did too. That's an issue in her sandbox.
In the future, I'd probe more deeply in another r, if I had nagging, even sub conscious doubts.
In hindsight, I think I did have random misgivings...sigh.
Newguy, We cannot change who we were in the past. We have to work on letting that go.
One thing about your w that I do "get", is that she doesn't want the A to be held over her head like the sword of Damocles, and she doesn't want it thrown in her face every
time you guys fight.
If that^^ cannot happen in time, she may feel that she has too high a mountain to climb and that no matter what, you will not get past this.
Have you tried reading Bluwave's thread? It's very relevant.
Also, a personal growth workshop called "Essential Experience" in Philadelphia might be useful for you. It's for individuals but it obviously helps in all r's. I found it profoundly helpful.
I went years ago and later, H went. Then we went together. That was probably the closest we were...There's a lot to be said for going without your spouse, b/c I think they can inhibit us from digging deep. Anyhow a lot of Dbers have gone and we all got a lot out of it.
Retrovaille is also very useful but it's for couples, specifically and imo, your w has issues that are not directly related to the m, but hey, I'm no shrink.
I just know that a weekly session even with a good MC, or IC, can feel fragmented. I'd make a breakthrough and then have to pick up the kids or go back to work. Then I'd have to start over the next week. That's why I like weekend retreats or workshops.
You dig deeper and I guess I think they are more "efficient".
Do whatever helps.
((( )))
Thanks for the response 25yearsmlc.
I'm really trying to piece this all together a step at a time. I will need to look into a weekend workshop that is available to me - I'm in rural Canada so I will have to see what is near me.
It has been extremely difficult for me not to take my wife's actions/words personally - but I notice I'm not getting the intensity nor the duration of emotion like I did in the past. I'm a little over a month since I found out.
I decided today that I would ask my wife for the exact date she sought the affair (in reference to my last lengthy post). She was fine with it and did up a timeline. My worst fear was found to be true. She started the affair January 2014. What bothers me about this the most is she was saving money for a trip to Mexico and 'surprised me with it' at Christmas time. We were so excited to go and went the end of January 2014 for a week with another couple. That was a turning point for our relationship (so I thought) because the whole 2014 year was filled with events (trips away on the weekend, a concert that she planned, etc.) But really - her 2014 year was filled with the me AND the OM. I guess they 'took a break in 2015' - which was when I originally thought it started.
Anyway... this is just re-opening old [censored] for me. I think I'm looking for reasons to be upset. I need to work on accepting the situation and decide if I want to stay in the relationship or not (with time).
I'm not the type of person to hit her over the head with the affair once I've forgiven her. But I haven't forgiven her yet. She has been very patient with me and understanding lately - she's doing exactly what I would want her to do. I'm wondering if I need to take some time away - even a weekend with a friend/family without contact with her. Maybe it would help me to decide what I want with my life. It's hard to come home, take care of the kids, chores, and have her being so friendly, caring and intimate towards me. I know she wants to be with me and I don't think she would cheat on me again (of course I don't know this factually). I hate indecision.
I'm not the type of person to hit her over the head with the affair once I've forgiven her. But I haven't forgiven her yet. She has been very patient with me and understanding lately - she's doing exactly what I would want her to do. I'm wondering if I need to take some time away - even a weekend with a friend/family without contact with her. Maybe it would help me to decide what I want with my life. It's hard to come home, take care of the kids, chores, and have her being so friendly, caring and intimate towards me. I know she wants to be with me and I don't think she would cheat on me again (of course I don't know this factually). I hate indecision.
You're doing great! It's only been a month, I was a wreck for 3+ months easily, probably longer. Realize that it takes time to process and heal and you don't have to actively "do" anything or make any decisions other than to take each day as it comes for a while. Do what feels right for you and that has to be good enough for her too for now.
It's good that you understand that her actions were not all about you, and in many ways she did what she did without you being on the landscape at all. On some level, people are just like squirrels looking for an acorn and don't see much beyond what's right in front of them in the moment.
Everyone feels resentful and/or taken for granted by their spouse. Sometimes that's short lived, sometimes it's long lived. Everyone has childhood hurts and issues that they are more or less successful at coping with. Everyone likes attention from the opposite sex, to feel like they are special, and everyone is vulnerable to escalating a flirtation when they know they shouldn't. All those things are just part of being human. None of that excuses cheating of course, no one should cheat on their spouse, but as we all know it happens every day all over the world, it's just part of the landscape unfortunately.
You can get through this, you can forgive her, you can be happy again and in a place where this episode doesn't enter your thoughts at all, or you look back on it and say "that made our relationship stronger". It takes time and effort to get there, and there are no shortcuts.
Acc
Ya... I think I just need to take one day at a time and not make any big decisions yet. I think I'm handling everything very well at this time - considering the circumstances.
I thought I would update everyone and write some of this down for my own processing.
I continue to think about it each day and continue to be ambivalent about whether I want to stay with my wife or not (all normal).
My wife and I have had some very good conversations and she continues to answer any of my questions. I've been checking up on her phone and messages - no evidence of contact from OM. I've been open with my wife about being ambivalent about the relationship and she said she thinks it's 'weird' that I can be intimate with her and be ambivalent. I think maybe she is telling me she is scared she will be hurt if I choose to leave. I do love her and at the same time, I've been so hurt by her and I'm angry (which I've told her).
I woke up in the middle of the night with a lot of anxiety on the weekend and decided to hop on her computer. I decided to search through her computer and her phone for any evidence of the past affair and/or anything current. I found out the email address which she used to join AM and have contact with the OM - I tried to log into it, it's no longer active (which she told me). I found a few pictures of the OM that he sent her and copies of old text messages. Nothing that I didn't know - it really didn't anger me too much.
I biggest thing I found is my wife has been 'face creeping' the OM, his wife and friends/relatives. I don't think there has been contact - I think she is checking up on him. On the one hand, it pisses me off that she agreed to no contact and then continues to 'keep an eye on him'. On the other hand, I can understand that she is struggling with missing him and that relationship and what's the harm if she's checking every so often? Is that naïve of me? It seems that she checks once a week or once every two weeks. The last time would have been a week or two ago.
I didn't tell her what I found because I don't want her to know that I'm 'checking up on her'. I think I'm checking on her because I don't fully trust her and I think part of me hopes she screws up so I can make a clear black/white decision.
Newguy2,
Checking up on your W can become a compulsion -- it's addictive. In my case I would periodically pull out everything I had found and re-read it, I still don't know why I did that but it was a form of self-punishment or something. In any case, it wasn't really helpful.
In my sitch, at some point, I decided that I needed to surrender to that which I could not control. I guess the point of that is that you can't "watch her into submission" -- if she wants to cheat she's going to, regardless of whether or not you're watching. That being said, what value is snooping on her providing?
If you surrender to the fact that you can't control what she does, then you can switch from playing defense to playing offense. If you're the best possible husband and partner you can be, then you really don't have anything to worry about. If she decides to cheat or leave that's her loss and you can move on without feelings of guilt or remorse that you should have done something differently/better. Being able to move on with a clear conscience is a huge gift that most people don't get.
The worst scenario is that she will get tired of you monitoring her, decide she wants out, and then you will suddenly decide you want her back and will regret chasing her away with your snooping. I'm not saying that is going to happen or would happen, only that it would be the worst outcome for you.
With regard to your W checking up on OM, people do things all the time when they don't think anyone is watching. It can be as subtle as checking someone out who you think is attractive, or looking at something you know you shouldn't. It doesn't really mean anything, it's just "stuff people do". She could look at his profile and 5 minutes later forget about him completely for the next two weeks, or she could be thinking about him constantly, but there's no real way for you to know that, and nothing you could do about it if you did know, so it's better to focus on you, who you want to be, and how you want to act. Does that make sense?
It takes a lot of strength to take your hands off the handlebars and just let go, but it's really worth it. Shift your mindset to one that if she cheats, its her loss and good luck to her because you are the prize.
If you are checking up on her to give you a reason to leave the relationship, she's already given you that. No one will blame you if you leave given what has happened. You don't need anyone's permission and you won't be the bad guy. If that's what you want, then do it. You can do it on a trial basis, get some space for a few weeks, and then reassess. There's a book about "Controlled Separation" where you both agree to separate, and then agree on a separation plan, i.e. will either of you date? How will you handle expenses? What kind of contact will you maintain? If you agree on some simple logistics up front it takes a lot of the pain of uncertainty out of the equation.
There is no wrong answer here, only what is right for you. The luxury you have that most people here don't is that your W is willing to re-engage. You may not believe me but if she told you tomorrow that she's done it would light a fire under you to get her back. You're in a good place now, make the right choice for you, based on what *you* want, and don't try to force her to make the decision for you.
Acc
Accuray - After my last post - I got caught up in thoughts of the affair and thinking I'm not going to be able to repair the marriage because I'm never going to be able to forgive her. I visualized and thought about all the components of the affair. Then, I read your post and the biggest thing that hit me was your last paragraph. You're right - my wife is willing to re-engage and wants to work on the marriage. And it really is my choice - I don't need a reason (or extra reasons to leave). I've read a lot of other postings on this forum and so many people are trying to obtain what I have - a spouse who wants to re-engage and is doing a lot of things right.
I definitely feel more calm and see-sawing back to 'I can make this relationship work, if I want to'. It could be better than the past. I know I could learn to put trust in her again and 'let go of the handlebars' - if I really want to.
What an emotional mess I've been. Does it end when we make a choice? How long until I can confidently make a choice? I hate this state of ambivalence. It's not only tearing me up - but I know it's effecting our relationship.
BTW - we have our first couples counseling session this week. Maybe that will help.
Just a quick post here, I may have more - but I caught my wife checking up on her OM, even though they work together (the affair was over once I busted them). Why would she check on him if she worked with him?
Turned out he supposedly got in deep legal trouble and she was seeing if it was online (he has some past history and it made news online).
My wife was devastated when I found out. All those movies and TV shows were nothing like real life. My wife was actively suicidal at the time, knowing that her life was about to change for the bad. She was active in church, bible study, and put on this "sweet country girl" air about her. Our children hated her, her closest friends were disgusted. It took a year of therapy and forgiveness on my part for her to recover.
What an emotional mess I've been. Does it end when we make a choice? How long until I can confidently make a choice? I hate this state of ambivalence. It's not only tearing me up - but I know it's effecting our relationship.
BTW - we have our first couples counseling session this week. Maybe that will help.
The "emotional mess" will end when (1) sufficient time has passed for you to process and work through the stages of grief to acceptance and (2) you are "bringing it" and have no doubts as to your value as a husband and partner.
In order for an affair to start there has to be an "emotional gap". If you're connected to her the way you can be, there just won't be room for someone else and you'll know it. When you get there, you won't even think about what's happened in the past, I promise.
If you step back your road to feeling good has everything to do with your attitudes and behaviors and really very little to do with hers. If you're empowered and feeling good physically and mentally, you'll have an "I've got this" attitude.
Often the pain of being cheated on is in feeling inadequate -- i.e. "what's wrong with me that made this other person a better choice?" That's a feeling born of insecurity and self-doubt. If you know you're "the better man" there is no room for those feelings either.
As with many things in life, relationships spin in self-reinforcing cycles. That can either be a negative cycle where mutual resentments build and you get farther and farther emotionally distant from each other, or it can be a positive cycle where you each pay it forward and ask "what can I give to this relationship" rather than "what can I get from it"
You two have been stuck in a negative cycle where you don't trust her. The fact that she knows you don't trust her makes her feel guilty and bad which makes her not want to seek positive intimacy with you. The fact that she doesn't seek positive intimacy with you makes you not trust her, and around you go. To break that, you have to pay it forward and bring it, and that usually requires "fake it until you make it" because you're not going to "defend your way there"
Regarding couples counseling -- caution. I *strongly* recommend meeting with the counselor 1:1 before your first session to discuss how you're feeling, what you'd like to get out of the sessions, and "stack the deck" as it were so that you're not surprised. There are some things you're going to feel the need to say that are perhaps better not said with your W present. I personally have not seen good outcomes from MC and I think you're better served doing joint sessions with a DB coach on this site, but that's just my $0.02
Acc
Very good stuff, Accuray.
I wanted to edit my post above meaning when my wife got caught in her A, not caught checking up on her OM.
It's been almost two months. I've seen an individual counselor, spoken to a friend for support and my wife has answered all my questions. I feel like I'm reaching the end of the road where I need to make a choice of whether I forgive her and stay in the relationship or [forgive her] and leave.
Unfortunately the last few days I've been leaning strongly toward ending the relationship. I'm so hung up on the affair lasting for 3 years, that it started right between two big trips we planned together (for our relationship), that I had to discover it on my own (or it would still be going). I'm hung up on the EA and the PA. I don't think my wife is able to give me what I need to fully reconnect with her. I would need to swallow my own self-respect in order to stay in this relationship because of my strong value of commitment.
I don't feel good about this decision. I dread hurting her because I still love her and care about her. I know she wants me to make a decision soon because she is struggling with my ambivalence. I fear what will happen with our two children and how it will affect them.
We had one session of marital counseling and it went very well. I keep feeling connected to her when we are together and in counseling, but when I'm away, driving, at work, all I think about is the hurt and how I don't deserve it. I think about all the negative aspects of her and tell myself (I don't want to go back to that). I laid in bed next to her last night and all I thought about is how I don't want to be with her and I felt soooo guilty and anxious.
Anyway, I needed to post on her because my mind is a mess today. I didn't sleep and I have a stressful day of work. I think I need to sit with my decision without acting on it and see how I feel. At least give it a few days. I have individual counseling in 4 days so maybe I need to speak with my counselor about it.
Also - I spoke with my wife's friend (who knew about the affair). She knew about the affair but she didn't know all the details. She said 2 years ago my wife was crying and sobbing and saying she needed to tell me about the affair - her friend told her not to - but she told my wife to end the affair. My wife didn't end the affair and instead stopped telling the friend about it. I was angry with the friend, but I've forgiven her. It's funny because the friend thought my wife met the man through her work - she had no clue that she 'searched' for a man to have an affair with... I didn't share this with the friend. Just told her that she didn't meet him through work.
I keep saying this - but this is so frustratingly difficult. The most difficult time of my whole life.
I feel like I'm reaching the end of the road where I need to make a choice of whether I forgive her and stay in the relationship or [forgive her] and leave.
How can you focus more on the task in front of you than what comes after? If you are saying that the first steps are the same, why not take those steps and then see where it leads you?
Ha ha Kaizen. I think the problem is that if I choose to stay I think I need to forgive her prior to choosing to stay (or at least make the commitment in my mind).
If I choose to leave - I can forgive her after I leave. What that would mean is trying not to hold it against her. None of our social circle know (except one person) and if I leave they will all know... so I need to forgive her in my mind after leaving enough that I don't become malicious with sharing the information.
I think my problem is I'm still caught up in the anger and hurt. I'm pushing myself to decide so I can either let it go and move on with her or to leave her and tell our social circle about the affair. As you can see - I'm handling everything so black/white. If I'm going to tell people after leaving her and that's so important - why not talk to some of my social circle about the affair before I decide? Because I'm afraid they will judge me for staying with her. I have these expectations of what I 'should' do - but I'm having a hard time separating whether it's me feeling I 'should' do something or whether it's what I actually want.
I can see why everyone was telling me 'it's so early' when I was 2-3 weeks in. This is so confusing.
I can see why everyone was telling me 'it's so early' when I was 2-3 weeks in. This is so confusing.
You are 6 weeks in to a relationship youve had for like 15 years. I would work to get your emotional status under control before you start making any decisions. Take a month or two or six and just try to 'be'. Try not to obsess over your 'decision' and instead focus on what is important to you long term and decide whether those are things you can get from this relationship.
The way see it, you dont need to decide 'to stay' or 'to leave'. Instead, wake up each day and decide whether or not today will be the day you leave your marriage. If it's not, then go about your day without the stress of a looming "DECISION".
I guess I feel guilty for 'waiting' on the decision since my wife knows I have a lot of ambivalence going on - though we mostly try to go about our relationship like we are working on it - but we both 'pull away' from each other when we have thoughts about the ambivalence. She asked if I could have a decision for her by the end of June - I told her I would have it much earlier than that (because June felt so far away). Now that May is almost over, I feel like I need to have a decision together. I believe we need to start doing more work to improve the relationship or start moving to end the relationship.
I believe my emotional status is more under control - but I feel so mixed. If I decide to leave I feel sad for my wife (who is trying) and scared for myself (I don't know what will happen next). If I stay, I feel like I'm 'swallowing my anger' like I've always done. It's another sign of disrespect that I have to 'suck up' and accept.
I think I've been handling all of this rather well - until the last few days. Maybe I'm putting to much pressure on myself and I need to slow things down again - as [Kaizen] mentioned.
Newguy2,
Unfortunately you can't hurry healing and you can't do it on anyone's schedule. I understand that no one wants to be in limbo.
One of the challenges is trying to get from where you are to where you want to be, and feeling impatient that it's taking so long. The issue is often that you can't just jump from a "3" on the happy couple scale to a "10".
Something to try with your wife: talk about how happy each of you feel regarding the relationship on a 10 point scale. There's no wrong answer.
Let's say she says "5".
Say "why is it better than a 4?" -- celebrate that success
Say "what would I or we be *doing* if it was a 6?"
Then make a plan to do that. The focus is on what you would be *doing* specifically and not what you would be feeling, because you can't control how you feel, but you can choose what each of you do.
Then agree on a time to reassess. That way you can see progress together and the goal doesn't need to be 10.
In the example above she did the rating, but both of you should do it, and be honest about it!
Acc
Hello Newguy2,
Did you ever read Healing from Infidelity?
Sure, leaving might seem easier, but it isn't. Leaving just creates a different set of issues. Speaking with one of our DB Coaches will help you clarify your goals and help you with flip flopping.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
I feel a lot of shame/guilt in posting an update because I believe that I'm not following the great advice on here. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate it and value it. I reread my entire thread and so much of what you all have told me is true. I think it's difficult to see things clearly through this emotional fog.
I had my final session with my IC yesterday. We mutually finished because I'm involved in Couples Counseling and I'm thinking much clearer than my initial 'crisis'. We talked about compatibility in relationships and it got me thinking that my wife and I might not be that compatible. That doesn't mean we can't have a great relationship (I think we did) but it means we have to put in extra work. The struggle I have is I feel like I've been putting so much work into the relationship to 'make it work' that it eats up my time. I don't get time for the things I personally enjoy (which my wife doesn't) and I feel guilty when I do the things I enjoy because my wife wants me to spend time with her.
Anyway, yesterday I got into a strong phase of anger. I got back into thinking about the OMW and tried to contact the OMW by telephone to tell her about the affair - I did not reach her - the OM answered once and I hung up. I thought about calling him back and telling him I'm looking for his wife - and pursue it relentlessly (I know I could contact her eventually) but I decided to let it go.
I then got into thinking maybe I would be happier outside of my relationship with my wife. I went home and my wife noticed I was cold to her. She asked if I love her, I said 'yes', she asked "do you still want to be with me?" and I didn't respond. She took that as a no and started to become upset. She talked about how we had such a great weekend (which is partially true - again, me focusing all my energy on being with her) and she told me she is going to sleep in the spare room. So I told her "I'll sleep in the spare room" and I moved what I needed for the night to that room.
We barely talked. I kept looking at her as I felt very sad, guilty and I wanted to comfort her or talk - she responded by yelling "what are you looking at?" so I didn't pursue it. I spent the remainder of the night doing my own thing and went to bed early. She texted me saying 'are you ok?' and 'I don't like this. I hope you have a good sleep. I love you'. I didn't receive the messages until the next morning because my phone was charging on the other side of the room.
We have marital counseling today and we are planning to go together. She asked if I'm planning to 'break it off' in counseling - I told her that wasn't the plan. She said "I hope you won't do that to me".
My original plan was to speak with her last night about my compatibility concerns - prior to the MC. I wanted to lay out why I'm struggling so much plainly - focus on how I've felt in the relationship in the past (excluding the affair). So I'm thinking about bringing it up either in the car on the way to MC or during (or both).
I don't regret anything - I think our relationship needed the shake up. I could sit on the fence forever if I was allowed. I need to start making decisions that I think are best for me and worry less about how it will impact others.
Hi Newguy2,
I'm glad to see all the introspection! Compatibility is an interesting dimension. The challenge with compatibility is that it tends to be elusive over the long run. People's interests, political leanings, lifestyle choices, etc. can change at any time and for any reason. You could love to play tennis, marry someone because they also love to play tennis, play tennis together every day, and then one of you gets a knee injury that prevents you from ever playing tennis again.
Instead of focusing on compatibility, I would focus more on who you are and who you want to be. It feels to me like you've been a "pleaser" historically, and a conflict avoider. If that's accurate, then you have a tendency to put your own needs in the back seat, and that can lead to resentment building and building which shows itself in not so great ways.
If that's the case, you should focus on *that* instead of compatibility. How do you have your own voice within the relationship? How do you become your own best advocate? How can you say "no" and feel good about it, and be confident that everything will still be okay?
In one model of relationships, both parties need to be willing and able to bring things to a head at any time -- to say "this isn't working for me, and if this [thing] doesn't change, then I'm going to leave."
The other person can agree to the change you want, reject the change you want, or negotiate a compromise that works for both of you. If they reject the change you want and won't compromise, then you need to leave. The stakes need to be real.
That dynamic forces the relationship to evolve so that it works for both of you, it keeps taking things to a higher level.
For instance, if your wife is hyper sensitive as you've described, you may say that her immediate emotional reactions to things don't work for you. That she needs to find a better way of processing her initial reactions, that you're willing to help her do it, but that you need to see a change.
Note that she needs to be empowered to do the same.
I'm not suggesting that you live your life with weekly ultimatums hurled back and forth, but that both parties being willing to blow things up when the situation becomes untenable is much better than silently letting resentment build in the interest of keeping the peace. Over time, that simply won't work.
Acc
I agree with what you are saying Accuray. I think I am the 'pleaser' in a lot of the situations. And I think my wife is emotionally reactive, which causes me to avoid conflict. We discussed asking for space when needed to 'process emotions' and calm down before re-engaging when it gets heated. I think this is a good way to deal with things.
I guess my compatibility struggle is my wife wants me around her all the time - doing things with her. Which leads to me not getting time to do the things I enjoy. Or if I'm doing them, she will seem upset. Communication will need to be looked at if we are to continue.
I've been spending more time to myself and sleeping in a different room. I feel like the space is helping me clear the head. However, I decided to make another attempt at contacting the OM wife - and I contacted her. I told her about the affair and she knew my wife's name. She said she suspected an affair but had no proof and her husband would lie his way out of it. I gave her a bunch of information and she thanked me for contacting her. I felt so happy. I feel like I did the right thing.
The OM then called me and I admitted to contacting his wife. He kept trying to find out what I told her - I told him that I wasn't telling him anything that I told his wife and that his best approach is to be completely honest otherwise she will catch him in lies. He then called my wife over and over - she called him back to find out what it was about and left a voice message. My wife was aware I contacted his wife. My wife is now in emotional turmoil. I think she feels guilty and responsible for the OM having problems in his marriage now. I told her that it was his choices that got him in trouble - if it wasn't her, it would have been someone else. I can tell she is very frustrated with me.
I asked her why she contacted him back when we agreed they wouldn't have contact - I don't know whether to feel disrespected by this or to write it off that she's a caring person. She turned it around on me saying I 'promised' not to contact the OMW - I made no such promise and I reminded her of that. I reminded her that I told her 2 days ago that I tried to contact her at her workplace.
Anyway, she decided to go for a walk - she needs to process her emotions. Now I need to focus my attention back on what I'm doing with my own marriage - mind you, I think I've thrown her off. She may decide to end it with me herself. But at this point - I'm fine with whatever happens. I'm just going to slow things down and take one step at a time.
I feel so much better that I informed the OM wife. She had a right to know.
Newguy,
You did the right thing regardless of the outcome. My W was pissed when I call the OM W. She seemed to care more about protecting him than my feelings whatsoever. And when I called her out on it, W kept saying that wasn't true. The affair fog has these W making choices that they can't even see them selves making. Trust me this has nothing to do with your W being a caring person.
My wife and I had a good conversation last night. She was much more calm but still overwhelmed with mixed emotions. She told me that because I contacted the OM wife and shared information that she feels she can't trust me anymore. I guess she feels like I used her completely honesty and openness against the OM (and maybe in a way against her?). I'm not sure how to feel about this.
I think she can understand my point of view that it was the 'right thing' to contact the OM Wife - and at the same time I think she is worried about the OM. She said she doesn't know what he will do - I don't know if she is scared he will hurt himself or lash out at someone else. I just don't want to be mixed up with the OM and his family/relationship anymore.
My wife hasn't had contact with the OM yet - she tried to call him back and only left a voice message. I asked her not to answer the phone and/or only speak with him with me present initially. However, we talked about it and she is so upset that I agreed that she could speak with him without me present. She said she is worried in speaking with him that she will say the wrong thing and it will upset me - which I know will happen. I want her to say "[OM} I thought we agreed not to contact each other. I know my husband contacted your wife, I didn't know he was going to and I can't have anymore contact with you. Goodbye" But that will never happen.
So I decided to compromise. I asked her to inform me immediately once they have had contact. I reminded her that me informing the OM wife had nothing to do with her. It was my choice and she wasn't even aware I was doing it. She doesn't even know what I shared with the OM wife (I told her I wasn't going to tell her in case she shares it with him). I said that she can speak with him without me present, but I need to know exactly what was said. She agreed.
What I find interesting is that I contacted the OM Wife on facebook. The exact method that my wife didn't want me to use because the OM 'monitors it'. After two months of trying to track down phone numbers, trying phone numbers, trying her work phone number... my original plan was the one that worked. I wish that I tried this method initially. Even though I am glad for doing the right thing - a lot of emotion has been resurfaced which may have been easier 1-2 months ago.
But again - it is what it is. Just keep taking small steps.
Sorry to double post - but I was just thinking about a conversation my wife and I had before this contacting OMW came up.
My wife told me that 'lots of people have affairs' and tried to give me examples of people we knew who have had affairs. She also talked about how relieved she felt when I found out. How she stopped covering her tracks because she wanted to be caught. She said she thought our relationship was strong enough to make it through this. I wonder if she wasn't strong enough to end the relationship with the OM and therefore needed me to rift them. Or if she is trying to justify herself. It makes me think that she still doesn't get it. That she still doesn't understand how much pain the affair has caused. She says she understands - I've 'hit her over the head' with the emotional pain and turmoil I'm experiencing - but I think she immediately guards herself by reflecting on herself and her own emotional pain. How difficult it is for her.
I'm glad I'm giving myself space from her to work through this as I don't want her thinking everything is fine and we haven't had any intimacy in almost a week (except two hugs and two exchanged 'I love you').
She told me that because I contacted the OM wife and shared information that she feels she can't trust me anymore.
Uh. OK. Shes the one that was with OM....she just expects that she has your blanket trust still...?
I think she can understand my point of view that it was the 'right thing' to contact the OM Wife
This is completely your opinion. I decided not to contact my ex's AP's spouse. And that person never contacted me. Honestly, OP's relationship with their ex isnt my problem. Just because you think it's "right" doesnt make it so for everyone.
I just don't want to be mixed up with the OM and his family/relationship anymore.
And yet, you contacted her....?
My wife hasn't had contact with the OM yet - she tried to call him back and only left a voice message. I asked her not to answer the phone and/or only speak with him with me present initially. However, we talked about it and she is so upset that I agreed that she could speak with him without me present. She said she is worried in speaking with him that she will say the wrong thing and it will upset me - which I know will happen.
What more is needed other than a voice mail?
So I decided to compromise. I asked her to inform me immediately once they have had contact. I reminded her that me informing the OM wife had nothing to do with her. It was my choice and she wasn't even aware I was doing it. She doesn't even know what I shared with the OM wife (I told her I wasn't going to tell her in case she shares it with him). I said that she can speak with him without me present, but I need to know exactly what was said. She agreed.
This sounds really controlling. "I get to do whatever I want, but you have to tell me every single thing you do and when you do it."
I certainly get it that recovering from this is hard. Your W is going through a lot right now, and I think the more you try to be controlling and bullying about this, it will lead to potential issues down the road. Just my 2 cents though.
Wow Kaizen - your comments are very critical.
Yes. You are right - my choice to do the 'right thing' was completely my opinion based on my values. What I thought was right. I think the OM's Wife had a right to know. I think she should be given information/evidence that proves her husband was cheating. What she decides to do with it is up to her. I don't want to be mixed up with the OM and his family/relationship - but the OM is hard to forget considering he was sleeping with my wife. I partially hate the OM and wanted to give him some chaos and I also felt guilty when he called me and I refused to give him any information because I know he's get a difficult process to work through.
When I say "I think [my wife] can understand my point of view" regarding contacting the other man... of course it is my opinion. That's why I owned it and said "I think.."
Regarding my wife leaving a voice mail - I think she wants to be supportive to him. I think she wants to soften any anger he may have towards her.
I don't think asking her to contact me immediately once she has contact with him is controlling. She is my wife. She had an affair. I have very little trust in her. I need her to show she can rebuild that trust if we are going to work through this. I thought my 'compromise' was fair considering initially I asked for contact only with myself present. And when I said "I asked..." I asked. I didn't tell her with an ultimatum. I asked if she could do that for me and she agreed. When I asked for my presence during the contact - she cried and told me it would be very difficult because she would be afraid to say the wrong thing - so I gave her a compromise.
Kaizen - I appreciate your feedback and at the same time I think you're making a lot of assumptions and judgments without full clarification. I can understand that I may not be communicating everything clearly (usually I'm flooded with emotions and thoughts when I'm posting) but I don't think I'm controlling or bullying my way through this process.
This is a difficult process. I'm sure I'm making mistakes along the way and at the same time I'm doing the best that I can.
I think the OM's Wife had a right to know. I think she should be given information/evidence that proves her husband was cheating. What she decides to do with it is up to her. I don't want to be mixed up with the OM and his family/relationship
My point is that you didnt have to get mixed up in it, but you chose to do exactly that. If you believe thats the 'right' thing to do, then so be it. But to me, thats kinda like jumping in the ocean and being upset that you got wet. Im not trying to judge your choice to contact OM's W...thats certainly not a 'bad' choice. But I dont think its as simple as just leaving an anonymous note. You may want to read LiM's thread about disentangling from OM/OMW.
Regarding my wife leaving a voice mail - I think she wants to be supportive to him. I think she wants to soften any anger he may have towards her.
Yeah, I understand that....but I guess my question is 'who cares?' No relationship is going to be particularly cordial when it ends. Is she planning to keep HIM as plan B?
I don't think asking her to contact me immediately once she has contact with him is controlling. She is my wife. She had an affair. I have very little trust in her. I need her to show she can rebuild that trust if we are going to work through this. I thought my 'compromise' was fair considering initially I asked for contact only with myself present. And when I said "I asked..." I asked. I didn't tell her with an ultimatum. I asked if she could do that for me and she agreed. When I asked for my presence during the contact - she cried and told me it would be very difficult because she would be afraid to say the wrong thing - so I gave her a compromise.
I completely agree that transparency is needed if you are going to rebuild.
But to me, saying "I contacted OM's W. It's not about you. It doesnt matter to you. Im not going to tell you anything about it." while at the same time saying "I need to know exactly what was said between you and OM" doesnt sound particularly compromising to me.
This is a difficult process. I'm sure I'm making mistakes along the way and at the same time I'm doing the best that I can.
Yeah, it certainly is. Im sorry if I came across as being overly critical. My intent is not to tear you down, but to dig into the words you wrote to see if theres something underlying which could be addressed. For example, your comments about OMW ^^^ to me sound very "holier than thou". That may not be your intent, but in reading, thats how it came across to me. And to me, putting your W on a lower plane is not going to be effective for healing from this trauma.
Kaizen - you are right. I didn't have to get into the mix. And maybe it seems 'holier than thou' but I guess I put myself in her situation and if it was me, I'd rather know. I'd rather someone contact me and tell me. And you're also right - this action doesn't do anything for my relationship with my wife. It certainly didn't bring us closer. It may be harmful to my relationship with my wife - but I think it's something I needed. Maybe I'll reflect back 1-3 months (or maybe hours, see below) from now and think 'what was I thinking' but for now I'm content with my actions.
I requested for information from my wife if he calls her and she agreed. I didn't want to tell her about what I told the OM wife because I didn't want her to lie or to give the information to the OM. I don't exactly know if she would give the information or not... maybe it's selfish or vengeance on my part but I want him to feel like he needs to be honest.
And maybe this has all backfired. I msg'd my wife today asking if she had any contact with OM - she wouldn't tell me. She avoided the question twice by changing the topic. She said she feels like she can't trust me because I might tell the OMW that they had contact again. I told her I wouldn't (which is truthful) but she hasn't responded to the question. I talked with her on the phone at work and she said we would talk tonight... that she didn't want to get into it.
At this point - I feel like if the OM contacted my wife then she is playing games with me. 2 months ago she promised she would tell me anytime he contacted her and yesterday she didn't tell me until I asked (after talking to OMW). She said that I told her to only text me if it's regarding the kids because I need space. Now she's *possibly* using another reason not to tell me. I don't know how I'll respond if she tells me she has had contact because I will feel like all trust is gone.
But then again - maybe she feels I'm playing games too because of contact with OMW.
I think I need to get back on track with the goals of our relationship. Try to gather the information and not emotionally respond and give myself time to process.
Wow... I'm making all of these emotional posts and not really listening to what is being told to me. I just had 2 calm days and thought I'd come back and re-read my latest posts and the responses again. Well I have to say that I'm really getting what has been said today - where when I initially read/posted, I didn't get it. I guess I should update where things are at.
My wife did have contact with the OM and didn't tell me right away. She talked with me about it and told me what there conversation was about. She encouraged the OM to be honest with his wife and told him how difficult it has been for her. How she wants to work on things with me and can't have contact again. Initially I got so caught up with the fact that she didn't tell me right away that I started going on about 'broken promises'. Then I realized how I'm looking for reasons to be mad (extra reasons) and not appreciating the fact that my wife has been honest (to my understanding) and open about all of my questions. Even when the truth would hurt.
My wife and I had a lengthy (calm) discussion. She realizes she needs to work on herself and inner reasons that she chose to have the affair. She has scheduled an appointment for individual therapy. She also seems to be more understanding of the dynamics in our relationship and her own impact upon everything that happened. I haven't seen this much introspection from her in the past as usually she's so focused on what I'm not doing for her. I think this will help us. I think it will help me to focus on myself. Really look at who I want to be.
I think I also need to let go of the pressure on myself. I think I feel like if our relationship isn't going to work out then it might as well end here. Then 'I' can say 'I ended it because she had an affair on me' (it wasn't my fault). If we wait 1-3 or more years and she ends the relationship then I'll feel like it's my fault. Ties right into my belief of myself of not being good enough. So I need to let go of that line of thinking. It's not helpful. It's keeping me stuck. I need to focus on what I want in my life and let go of worrying about what the impact will be in the future.
I guess my compatibility struggle is my wife wants me around her all the time - doing things with her. Which leads to me not getting time to do the things I enjoy. Or if I'm doing them, she will seem upset. Communication will need to be looked at if we are to continue.
usually she's so focused on what I'm not doing for her
These quotes were very inciteful to me. It reads as if your wife has historically demanded lots of time and attention from you to an extreme degree. If you didn't give enough in her view she would get upset with you. Then you would feel guilty for letting her down and try to make it up to her while also resenting the fact that she's making you jump these hurdles.
Is that an accurate statement of one of your relationship dynamics?
How do you feel about that?
What is her role in that dynamic and what is yours?
How can you change that dynamic so that you can both be happier? (Note: what can YOU do, not what could she do)
Acc
I think it is an accurate statement to our relationship dynamics. My wife seems to always want more with life. She wants my time. She wants my support. She wants (this is my opinion) what she sees other people doing.
I think I feel overwhelmed with giving and it builds resentment. Most weekends fly by and I always think about the things I didn't get to do. I get stuck on feeling like I 'wasted' my weekend. But reality is that I didn't waste the weekend - I like spending time with her. I just think the resentment builds that I wasn't able to do more of what I enjoy.
Communication will be very important. I think I will need to express more when I need time to myself and make sure I take the time. Make sure that I communicate to my wife that by having the time I need for myself it will improve the time we have together. Because I won't have the resentment and I'll feel more energized to put more into the relationship. We could also compromise on the time I take - agree that I can have 30 minutes to 1 hour doing something on my own. Once we have agreed - not only will she feel less frustrated when I 'sneak away' but I will feel less guilt when she notices I sat down to watch TV.
I think it would also be beneficial to compromise on what I can do more of around the house. Helping her more with responsibilities that we have settled into our 'roles' with... such as helping with laundry, dishes, cleaning. This way she will have more time and she won't feel resentful like she is the family maid.
This has been an interesting thread to read as I recognize a lot of what Newguy2 went through (or is going through).
Key difference with my situation is: duration. They spoke for (I am guessing) about one or two months before they even met up. But I read some of the same worries that I have. She ALSO talks about missing a friend and in this case my W doesn't have many friends and so I feel guilty for telling her to stop contacting him. I honestly don't even want that.
I think it is an extremely bad idea to condone any contact between OM and your WW. You are basically back to square one with hoping she will get over him, and there are overwhelming odds that they will keep in contact and restart the affair.
I just want to make a couple of observations from what you described, because I think you are hitting all the marks for a repeat victim:
She has faced almost no consequences. I never see things end well when the guilty party gets away with it.
Your description sounds like she has a stunning lack of empathy for you. She does not regret the affair. That she gave you a deadline for a decision is really, really selfish of her. Her line about not trusting you, and 'everyone does it' is something else entirely.
Her anger at you for informing OMW is inappropriate, and her concern for OM is even more misplaced.
You seem to be making a lot of compromises for your WW, and she is making none for you. You both seem to care more about her feelings than your own. There is truth to the axiom "the one who cares less in the relationship has the power".
With her history of threatening divorce or separation, and your extreme case of one-itis, she either is ambivalent about your marriage, or she knows she has you in her back pocket no matter what.
Sorry, but I see this all the time and I would bet very large sums of money that she will restart this affair, unless OMW is in the way, then she will start another one and hide her tracks better.
The decision to stay or leave is up to you. But either way, I strongly urge you to stop putting her ahead of yourself and find your own strength. You need strength to leave. You need even more strength to stay and re-balance your relationship if you hope to have a successful reconciliation. Here is a to-do list:
-Consult with at least 2 lawyers to know your rights and options.
-Document and save proof of her affair, which you may need in the divorce, or after.
-Dont keep her secret for her. Wide exposure is a no-no in DB, but I think hiding it for her makes you complicit.
-Reach out to your support network (family, close friends, boss) so that you can receive the support you need. Dont bear this all on your own.
-In addition to the DB materials, make sure you read 'hold on to your nuts' and especially 'no more mr nice guy' which you can find free online. Do the breaking free activities.
-Take back the master bedroom and make her stay in the guest room. Really, why do you need to run away?!
-Follow the 180
I think I feel overwhelmed with giving and it builds resentment. Most weekends fly by and I always think about the things I didn't get to do. I get stuck on feeling like I 'wasted' my weekend. But reality is that I didn't waste the weekend - I like spending time with her. I just think the resentment builds that I wasn't able to do more of what I enjoy.
It's great that you have figured this out. If you end up leaving your wife and starting a new relationship down the line, I can pretty much guarantee that you're going to get into exactly the same dynamic again with someone else, unless *you* change how you contribute to it.
The first part of it you figured out, you need to state what you need and then do it. The second part is to figure out for yourself how much responsibility you own for your wife's needs.
Let's say you want to watch TV for an hour on Sunday night, but she thinks you should be going for a walk with her instead. You can truly get yourself excited to go for a walk with her and fully buy in and have a great time with no regrets, you can agree to go for the walk to keep the peace, but resent her for making you do it, or you can tell her "no" you're going to watch TV instead because you need some time to relax.
The first option is the best but sometimes it's just not possible to buy into what the other person wants to do at the moment they want to do it, particularly if you already have your mind set on something.
The second option is the worst, and operating in that mode eventually leads to a marriage breaking down.
The third option is also perfectly fine, but here's where people get into trouble -- you choose to say "no", she gets mad at you and then blows it up into a big thing that you "never do what she wants" etc. etc. etc. You feel guilty about that and seek to make it right by doing something else for her, or not watching TV next time, and your resentment builds and builds.
Instead, you need to understand that *she* is responsible for deciding to get upset in that circumstance. She could say "okay I understand, enjoy your show!" and then go do something she likes to do. The fact that instead she got mad about it is on her -- you don't own that, and you don't have to make it right.
In fact, in many cases giving in to that kind of behavior makes a relationship partner feel "unsafe". If they can push you around and you don't stand up for yourself, then they don't trust that you will stand up for them. This is called a "fitness test" -- google it.
Obviously this has limits -- your wife has needs in the relationship that need to be met, and assuming they are reasonable you *are* responsible for that, so it's not acceptable to never go for a walk with her, or to always prefer TV over time with her, you need to work out a reasonable compromise where you both get what you need, but I get the sense from your write-up that is not the problem for you.
Instead, what she's trying to take from you feels like sand pouring onto a pile. No matter how hard you shovel, you can't move the sand out faster than it pours in. Eventually you develop a "why bother" attitude. Your spouse is threatened by the fact that you don't seem to be committed the relationship and that prompts them to try to extract even more from you which exacerbates the situation and around you go.
You break that chain by agreeing on what you will do for her, and what time you need for you, and then enforcing it and realizing that if she doesn't like what she agreed to, that's on her and you are NOT responsible for cheering her up, she needs to self-soothe and work through it on her own.
I would try implementing some of these changes before you give up on your M. Even if you decide to break things off, this will be an excellent opportunity to improve your own relationship dynamics.
Acc
My wife and I are continuing to 'work on things'. We are sleeping in the bedroom together again. I'm still ambivalent - but I'm calm and collected in my ambivalence. I've decided I don't need to rush anything and part of me 'working on things' is to see if I think our relationship is salvageable.
We attended two sessions of couples counseling and brought up my ambivalence, so the therapist asked to meet with me alone. This was yesterday. What a good session. Similar to what everyone has been stating to me and the themes of my writings - he helped me realize that I'm constantly putting my wife before myself. That I constantly accept it when my relationship needs are not being met - while focusing too much on trying to meet her needs. He encouraged me to start to focus on myself and communicate with my wife openly and clearly what I need in the relationship... and that I can even use it as a test to see if she can give me what I need.
In therapy I clearly understanding how I'm not treated as an equal in the relationship. My wife continuously breaks promises/commitments - simple things like agreeing to be the DD when we go to a party - then I turn around and she's completely intoxicated so I have to sober up. To making an agreement before visiting friends/family on when we will leave - when I remind her it's time to go, she'll say "just give me a few minutes" which turns into another hour.
We also talked about my difficulty in openly expressing myself to my wife. How I bring up things that she has done that hurt my feelings - she gets angry at me/turns it around on me - and I end up being the one apologizing.
What I've planned to focus on is identifying what I want to do. What I need. And making plans to do it and/or asking my wife to support it. The first step was she drinks alcohol too often and too much - so she has agreed to go 1 month without alcohol and reassess whether we continue it.
I'm also going to try to be aware when I feel guilty and ask myself 'have I done anything wrong?' - if not, continue to do what I'm doing and try to let go of the guilt. This comes up when I sit down to watch tv and my wife comes by - I feel guilty as if I shouldn't be doing it.
So the major thing I'm focusing on is myself. How I can change my own thoughts and behaviors to more align with what I want in the relationship. And if my wife can't realign with me - then the relationship is not going to work. I'm going to give it time and just stay focused.
The therapist is going to meet with me alone for half a session and then meet with my wife alone before meeting us together again.
This has been an interesting thread to read as I recognize a lot of what Newguy2 went through (or is going through).
Key difference with my situation is: duration. They spoke for (I am guessing) about one or two months before they even met up. But I read some of the same worries that I have. She ALSO talks about missing a friend and in this case my W doesn't have many friends and so I feel guilty for telling her to stop contacting him. I honestly don't even want that.
My wife and the OM texted/spoke online and on phone for 5 months before meeting in person - some of that had to do with living locations and that I'm around her a lot. They had sex the month after meeting up.
As for feeling guilty - I get it. I felt lots of guilt when my wife 'mourned' the loss of that relationship. But I know - for me - I can not be with her if she was to continue to have contact with him. If I discovered any contact that she wasn't completely up front with me about - I would end it. And I've continued to snoop her stuff (mind you, she changed her password on her phone... but I know I can get her to change it back).
I think it is an extremely bad idea to condone any contact between OM and your WW. You are basically back to square one with hoping she will get over him, and there are overwhelming odds that they will keep in contact and restart the affair.
She has faced almost no consequences. I never see things end well when the guilty party gets away with it.
Your description sounds like she has a stunning lack of empathy for you. She does not regret the affair. That she gave you a deadline for a decision is really, really selfish of her. Her line about not trusting you, and 'everyone does it' is something else entirely.
Her anger at you for informing OMW is inappropriate, and her concern for OM is even more misplaced.
You seem to be making a lot of compromises for your WW, and she is making none for you. You both seem to care more about her feelings than your own. There is truth to the axiom "the one who cares less in the relationship has the power".
With her history of threatening divorce or separation, and your extreme case of one-itis, she either is ambivalent about your marriage, or she knows she has you in her back pocket no matter what.
Sorry, but I see this all the time and I would bet very large sums of money that she will restart this affair, unless OMW is in the way, then she will start another one and hide her tracks better.
The decision to stay or leave is up to you. But either way, I strongly urge you to stop putting her ahead of yourself and find your own strength. You need strength to leave. You need even more strength to stay and re-balance your relationship if you hope to have a successful reconciliation. Here is a to-do list:
-Consult with at least 2 lawyers to know your rights and options.
-Document and save proof of her affair, which you may need in the divorce, or after.
-Dont keep her secret for her. Wide exposure is a no-no in DB, but I think hiding it for her makes you complicit.
-Reach out to your support network (family, close friends, boss) so that you can receive the support you need. Dont bear this all on your own.
-In addition to the DB materials, make sure you read 'hold on to your nuts' and especially 'no more mr nice guy' which you can find free online. Do the breaking free activities.
-Take back the master bedroom and make her stay in the guest room. Really, why do you need to run away?!
-Follow the 18
I answered some of this in my post above. You're right, I'm putting her feelings and needs before my own and I need to work on that. I need to accept that sometimes she is going to be upset and angry with me - but if I've done nothing wrong then it's not my problem to fix.
I think her misplaced anger and concern is a result of the affair and her strong emotional attachment to the OM. I think Sandi2 (?) has a post on the WW and describes how they don't think clearly. I'm hoping that in time she will start to think more clearly and realize how messed up her thoughts were at the time of the affair and when it was revealed. Because if she can't have empathy and understanding of my situation - then I can't stay in this relationship.
And I don't want to reveal the affair or seek supports - I know I need them... but I don't want people to know. I'm afraid of the judgment on me if I decide to stay. I'm afraid my family will judge and treat her differently. It has taken a lot of time and effort/encouragement for my wife to build a decent relationship with my parents. I don't want to ruin it. We live in an area which is all small communities - if one person is told it's very likely the rumor will fly.
Well... back into the emotional mess.
My wife had to go overnight to a nearby city for work-related reasons (where she met up with the OM most of the time) and stayed at her brother's place. I tracked her and she didn't go into the city, just where she was supposed to be. And I don't think OM would have met up with her - I'm quite sure they still haven't had contact. Anyway, I felt off all last night and kept making sure she was where she was supposed to be with iphone tracking (which she knows we both have turned on). She arrived home last night and I tried to be happy, but I felt so depressed. I told her it was because I didn't sleep very well - which is true.
I felt better this morning because we went to bed early together. The morning was back to the routine. I thought I should talk to her about what I was going through yesterday a bit more in-depth so she would understand so I called her. She was still at home. I found out that last night when I was sleeping she went through my text messages in my phone to my sister. I told my sister that I was strongly thinking about leaving my wife and that my wife wanted to work on things. This was 3-4 weeks ago - and it continues that I told my sister we decided to go to marital counseling and work on things. My wife was all upset about it saying "now I'm going to be embarrassed to be around your sister". I said "think about how it is for me to be around/talk to your friend who knows about the affair..." My sister really knows nothing about the affair.
Then I find out that she went into my facebook and read my facebook messages to the OMW. She realized that I sent the OMW copies of text messages that my wife and I had sent. My wife went on about feeling 'violated'. I said 'I know you don't agree with me contacting the OMW, but I think I did the right thing. I needed to send her some proof so the OM wouldn't lie his way out of it'. I then said "I know I violated your privacy by copying the texts - but you violated our marriage'. I then started going on about how she doesn't understand how this has been for me because she is so caught up in her own emotions. She hung up on me.
I then sent her a text message stating 'We can talk again once you've collected yourself. Let me know when YOU want to talk'. She responded "I'm sorry - I just can't fight and be a mess before work. Our conversation wasn't productive'. And "no worries I won't bring emotions to you'.
I haven't responded to her because I'm so angry. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
I said 'I know you don't agree with me contacting the OMW, but I think I did the right thing. I needed to send her some proof so the OM wouldn't lie his way out of it'. I then said "I know I violated your privacy by copying the texts - but you violated our marriage'. I then started going on about how she doesn't understand how this has been for me because she is so caught up in her own emotions. She hung up on me.
I haven't responded to her because I'm so angry. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
To me, it sounds like you are still doing so much scorekeeping. This was right vs. this was wrong... I did this but you did that...
Lose the scorebook. You both feel like you arent being trusted....you both feel like you are being violated...
By defending your actions, youre putting yourself on a different level from her. And you wont be able to have any kind of productive talk if you are acting/showing that you feel 'above her'.
You're right Kaizen. It's so easy to slip into 'scorecard' mode. I think it's been very difficult for me not to feel like I'm on a different level from her. I feel like I'm carrying so much on my own and trying to help her with her load. So when she suggests that I'm not doing something right or how something I did hurt her - I jump right into 'what about me?' mode.
Reflecting back now that I'm calmer - we just fell back into old patterns. One of us brings up an issue, the other gets defensive and throws something back - we then start throwing slights back and forth until she leaves/hangs up. Then I calm down and try to re-engage conversation, but she is pissed at me. I then feel guilty and apologize until she shows some sign that she is less angry... whether I did wrong initially or not.
Unfortunately we continued to text back and forth bringing up all kinds of issues. Her points are not feeling like she can share her feelings with me, feeling resentment that I express that she has a hard time managing her emotions, that her intent was to bring [the text to sister and OMW] up and move forward so we can be closer, her thinking that she's being perceived as 'needy' or 'clingy' and also themes of her being 'a good person and wanting a relationship with someone that wants her'.
My points are how understanding and supportive I have been to her and how I don't feel I receive the same. How there is nothing wrong with 'wanting to work on a relationship' when the other person doesn't want to/is ambivalent (her worry about being perceived as 'clingy' by my sister). How much I still hurt with all of this. How I think she has deep issues that only she can fix - and I have my own issues that I need to work on.
Again, like Kaizen said... we got into 'scorecard' mode. Is there any way for me to help her to understand? Am I getting too caught up in little things? I just feel like there are red flags going off that this relationship is not going to work. Maybe I need to just ignore them and try my best to be the best man I can be? Or maybe I'm looking for reasons to leave, but I'm afraid to leave and I'm afraid to hurt her?
I can see why other people on here are going on 6 months, 1 year, 2 years of this. I don't think it will be that long for me - because I believe my wife will feel like I'm 'beating her up' and leave me if this continues too much longer. Her friend was telling my wife that she doesn't deserve what I'm putting her through. I don't think the friend is trying to hurt things for us - just doesn't know how else to support my wife.
Just to update - my wife and I had a very good conversation and really defused a lot of the anger we were experiencing. I didn't apologize for anything that I did or said - but focused on pointing out negative cycles we keep getting swept up in. She agreed. We both agreed to try to notice the cycles and work together on finding ways to stop them early.
In working on our relationship - we have a long way to go. I need to work on forgiveness and letting go of the affair. This doesn't mean I will automatically trust her, however, I need to let go of bringing up the affair every time we have conflicts. I also need to get my mind focused on working on the relationship... I need to give this a fair shot. Focus on myself and get fully into making myself happier in my life (with my wife and on my own).