Hello. I am back from the land of the undead and I am in dire need for help and guidance.
STBXW (Miss Oportunity) and I are separated since September 2015.
According to our agreement (not yet approved by the court, but we are already abiding by it), each parent has the kids with them from Monday after school until the following Monday morning, when the parent who has the kids takes them to school. The other one picks them up at the end of the day and so on.
This has worked so far and each parent has proven to be flexible and reasonable.
For instance, one week ago it was my weekend with the kids but someone was visiting STBXW and she asked me if the kids could stay at her place from Friday to Saturday. I said yes.
And this weekend, in exchange, although it was her weekend with the kids they came to my place from Friday to Saturday.
I have to say I am not in favour of this kind of swapping or trading. I think it is better for the kids' stability to stick to the planned schedule.
I was going to tell Miss Oportunity I didn't mind for them to go to her place in order to meet her friends and that I didn't need a compensation day, but I didn't. And, in fact, I had a compensation day.
But now my week with the kids starts tomorrow and Miss Oportunity asked me to keep the kids tomorrow because Tuesday she will be flying away and is only coming back the following Tuesday, so she is missing one of her Mondays, when the kids will have to be with me.
I want to say no, I want to say this swappings cannot become a regular thing. If chances dictates that one has one or two less days with the kids than the regular schedule, so be it.
What do you separated parents with kids think?
Should I concede?
Should I allow to trade the Monday?
Am I not wanting to do this for the wrong reasons, because I know the reason she is flying? And being that reason the signing of our divorce papers, so that the divorce becomes final?
I'm a little confused.
You and your stbx have a child custody schedule that you approved and agreed to.
Now and then, your stbxw wants to trade a day and so far, she has had reasons you deemed worthy. And IF you want a compensation day, she's more than willing to give you one. In fact, from where I sit, she's probably making an extra effort to compensate you to avoid looking unfair.
So, what's the specific problem? The kids changing a day now and then? Is your schedule disrupted too much?
I don't know the ages of the kids. But I'm not clear on what you fear and yes, I think there is fear in your post.
As for the Div being finalized, it'll cement the agreement you signed (and wanted??)
it is not the reality of what is occasionally happening.
IF the D is finalized and becomes the legally enforceable agreement, and IF you think she violates it, the D only protects you.
It's a costly thing to try and enforce (and maybe most judges won't think it's worth it,) but they will enforce the letter of the agreement.
I don't understand the fears you have and the relevance of the Div papers being signed. It isn't relevant to the swaps if it's not part of the D agreement.
I think what I'm trying to say is,
choose your battles wisely.
And dig deep to find your real motivation. Just so I know,
What exactly are you fighting for or against, btw? Any swapping??
To me you sounded as if flexibility was a good thing in your mind.
What bothers you when you see her these days? What's it triggering?
you can always or occasionally say that you do NOT wish to have your compensation day, "in order to keep the kids's schedule more routine"...
That^^ would model something for your stbxw, and set your own boundary I suppose.
But you must decide if more time with your kids is of more value to you,
than setting a boundary, especially a boundary that might seem arbitrary,
or related more to anger, ego or fear or whatever...
Do you disapprove of her flying wherever she's headed? If so, that is what you're really dealing with.
If not, then I'd just go back to the "choose your battles carefully".
In my opinion...
25yearsmlc,
Thank you for your reply.
Just by reading it my head becomes more clear.
Yeah, I guess there is nothing absolutely dead wrong in swapping an occasional day.
My kids are 10 and 8 (I see I need to update my signature).
And I was trying to put myself in my kids's shoes: I would like to know in which bed I will be sleeping for the next few days and not have to change my routines.
25yearsmlc,
Thank you for your reply.
Just by reading it my head becomes more clear.
Yeah, I guess there is nothing absolutely dead wrong in swapping an occasional day.
My kids are 10 and 8 (I see I need to update my signature).
And I was trying to put myself in my kids's shoes: I would like to know in which bed I will be sleeping for the next few days and not have to change my routines.
then insist that there be no flexibility in their schedules absent a medical emergency and put that in writing as part of your Div agreement...
is that^^^ really what you want? I mean, divorce with kids their age will never be painless or super convenient. It is what it is.
But a rigid adherence to a schedule and never changing it even by one day, a day that gets "repaid" just does not come off as reasonable to me. Sorry, but there's something off about it.
No offense, okay? But do you have control issues? (What would your stbxw say if she were here?)
At this point I'm not sure the previous thread is needed for this question - if your divorce is only days away and if your question really boils down to this^^ one issue.
Am I missing something?
We live in a small island and where everybody knows everybody.
So we decided to divorce in the mainland, to preserve our lives.
I will be represented by an attorney, but STBXW made a point of being there, because she was also present at the wedding, she says.
This is why she is flying and why she will be away for one week.
After talking to you I agree that there is no problem in giving her tomorrow's Monday.
In my mind it was confusing and I had all my feelings mixed.
With your help I am now more at peace with the decision to be made.
Thank you, 25yearsmlc.
I think I just needed someone to talk to.
This is likely to be an issue that carries forward for you into the future. I am sure you will get lots of different opinions on this. Perhaps I'm in a different situation because my H doesn't want to see the kids much or want custody at all. We have no agreement on particular times and probably never will.
That said, rather than my own hurt and my own pain, I try to think about the kids. Is what she is proposing hurting the kids? Have they voiced concerns about deviations from the plan? I think it is one thing to put the kids in the middle by making them decide and another to try to be flexible and just see how they adapt. At some point you may have greater needs for your own flexibility.
Wouldn't the kids benefit the most by seeing two parents who put their own stuff aside and work as partners in raising them? Kudos to both of you for wanting to be there and to have your time with the kids!
Ripe,
My XW and I have been doing this from time to time for the last 6 1/2 years and I personally don't think it's that big a deal. Sometimes things come up on days when I don't have my kids that I want them to be a part of and vice versa. We always offer compensation days to each other, like it seems Miss Opportunity is doing, and it's up to us if we want to take advantage of them or not. Just my .02 cents.
This is likely to be an issue that carries forward for you into the future. I am sure you will get lots of different opinions on this. Perhaps I'm in a different situation because my H doesn't want to see the kids much or want custody at all. We have no agreement on particular times and probably never will.
That said, rather than my own hurt and my own pain, I try to think about the kids. Is what she is proposing hurting the kids? Have they voiced concerns about deviations from the plan? I think it is one thing to put the kids in the middle by making them decide and another to try to be flexible and just see how they adapt. At some point you may have greater needs for your own flexibility.
Wouldn't the kids benefit the most by seeing two parents who put their own stuff aside and work as partners in raising them? Kudos to both of you for wanting to be there and to have your time with the kids!
They do have an agreement in place. The D decree merely cements it.
The way I read his original question is not about the kids welfare now, so much as wondering about changing the divorce agreement at the 11th hour,
to say that no changes can ever be made. Good luck getting through this week!
Thank you all for sharing your experiences, especially you, betterman.
That was what I was looking for.
Our agreements are written, but not in stone.
At least this is how I have approached them, and so has STBXW.
Miss Opportunity and I have been very flexible and, I think, we will continue to be in the future.
I had some fog around my head and could not see clearly, but you are right, Ownit, the question to be asked every single time is: is it hurting my kids?
I don't mean to hi jack but 25MLC brings up control and that's a hot button issue for many of us - me too.
If Ripe wants to stick to the agreement as laid out how is that controlling?
I agree that if anyone wants flexibility with the other side they have to offer it. If they don't want it why is that controlling? I would ask the question that if someone is too available for the other side to live their new life - are we not being doormats?
to say that no changes can ever be made.
Good luck getting that to fly in a courtroom...
I don't mean to hi jack but 25MLC brings up control and that's a hot button issue for many of us - me too.
If Ripe wants to stick to the agreement as laid out how is that controlling?
I agree that if anyone wants flexibility with the other side they have to offer it. If they don't want it why is that controlling? I would ask the question that if someone is too available for the other side to live their new life - are we not being doormats?
I dont want to speak for 25years, but the way I understand it, Ripe has deviated from the schedule in multiple occasions in the past and admittedly with acceptable results.
I dont have an issue to sticking to the agreement as written if it's done consistently. But to reference this document only in certain occasions comes off as controlling to me.
For me, my ex and I have a very clear schedule about who has what days on childcare. If I get asked for a switch or to watch the kids extra, then I look at my schedule and decide. Sometimes, it's fine and sometimes Im busy. In this instance, Ripe wanted to use what his W was going to do with the time as his judgment criteria for whether to take the kids; I think thats not a great way to proceed - her time is her time. Focus on what YOU want out of what you can control with your time.
I don't mean to hi jack but 25MLC brings up control and that's a hot button issue for many of us - me too.
[b]
If Ripe wants to stick to the agreement they wrote together, and as laid out how is that controlling?
In and of itself, it's not. Please read below.
I agree that if anyone wants flexibility with the other side they have to offer it. If they don't want it why is that controlling?
I did not read Ripe's post as meaning he wanted "no" flexibility.
Imo, someone who is talking about children as opposed to a bank accounts, would probably need some flexibility. I just think that comes with the whole parenting challenge.
Both parents want to attend big events even if the events don't land on that parent's days, or a grandparent gets sick, or a parent does, etc...and yes, I think that's best for the kids as well.
I would ask the question that if someone is too available for the other side to live their new life - are we not being doormats?[/b]
"Too available for the other to live their new life....= being doormats..." ??
I'm not sure what this^^ stems from. In general, my reaction to a statement like that would be
Not to worry about what your former spouse is doing.
Stay out of the WAS's sandbox and live your own life, in your sandbox, well.
Spend as much time with your kids as possible.
To me, Being flexible isn't being a doormat.
Due to the thread title and Ripe's question, I took it to be him asking us whether he should change the D decree in the 11th hour, which made no sense to me.
Plus, I don't know if Ripe's ex w would say he's controlling or angry, etc.
Which is why I asked him, and her views matter for several reasons.
But especially
if Ripe holds out hope for someday reconciling, (which happens after divorce, too)
He doesn't need to fuel her negatives and no, being a doormat is not what I'm suggesting.
The divorce decree only incorporates & reflects an agreement Ripe and his xw already made. In that agreement, Ripe & she share custody half and half.
Ripe,
If your real question is whether you should SAY something to her, yes I'd totally agree with.
Can you simply talk to her about it?
Maybe Tell her you are "fine with the switches so far" (b/c complaining about a past switch that you agreed to at the time, will Not help you now)
but you are "just concerned about it happening too often in the future, for her sake, especially the kids sake"
AND b/c YOU are GAL and need more notice, etc. Say that with a PMA 
She will react, but you can validate her reply that you both " need to be flexible, and she asked you, etc" and then just gently remind her that sure, you get that,
but you are planning your GAL in advance and "some flexibility is of course fine, on a case by case basis"
Then maybe ask her something neutral like about her family or job, etc.
End the conversation first. Not abruptly but Because you are busy living your life well and need to get back to it, etc.
In other words, Can you See this as an opportunity?
I have to say I was also considering one different aspect of the issue: are all these changes in their schedule positive for the kids?
I would like to know at the beginning of each day in which pillow I would lay my bed in the afternoon.
It's the kids, not us, who have to change their homes week after week.
Has anyone given a thought about this?
Ripe:
I think most of us have wrestled with such issues. If you find your agreement is flawed and need to change it at the 11th hour and/or you've had some kind of change that will impact the arrangement i.e. work hours, etc. Then yes, change it before it's formalized. Or ask for a 6 month trial - where you can see how it works with a formal day to review. If you don't have a hard date for the review - it may not happen. Be prepared for the other side to have revisions, etc too.
I personally think it's best for the kids if their schedule is the same no matter what. Even if it is more difficult for the parents. Consistency is king. So they knew that next week, next month, etc what bed they will wake up in and when.
I have some comments regarding the previous reply by 25MLC, Roist and others. I'll pick those up on my thread.
I have to say I was also considering one different aspect of the issue: are all these changes in their schedule positive for the kids?
I would like to know at the beginning of each day in which pillow I would lay my bed in the afternoon.
It's the kids, not us, who have to change their homes week after week.
Has anyone given a thought about this?
YES I have. I just helped you express those concerns to your w in a far more productive way
When I used to argue with h about some things "For the kids" or b/c of my concepts of fairness,
1) SOMETIMES i used a shield of "The welfare of the children" to advance my own issues, my own anger & wanting to remind him of the pain he caused. I did not want him to feel "off the hook"
Other than not always having the purest of motives, it also
2) NEVER worked. Any guilt or remorse he may have felt, was converted into blaming ME for turning kids against him OR quibbling about small things to create drama or b/c I "like to make him look bad".
(I'm ashamed to admit there was some truth in that. Things that bothered me a lot, often were barely noticed by the kids. I'm not completely sure why i made those such big deals).
But EVEN when I was honestly trying to help the kids, his reaction often led the kids to look to ME as the trouble maker.
I really think you can use this as the opportunity I suggested or some other positive way of getting her buy in, to a gentle boundary reminder.
You don't seem satisfied with that type of interaction. So I'm just cautioning you based on what I've seen here and my own experience,
falling on your sword for what many would see as reasonable (the examples you used of her switching a day or two and always paying them back and so far, always having reasons you supported,
well I think it could backfire...
but good luck.
Are you still at all interested in someday being open to Recon?
And as for the kids - do not underestimate the value of Kids seeing you GAL and being at peace.
Something my DB coach that helped me was to
Lose the Parental Tone/Voice with a WAS.
Because everyone including a WAS has an inner voice/moral compass
when we use our parental voice with our spouses, it shuts down their inner voice.
The more you challenge her choices, the more she defends them, etc.
Sure, calmly gently speak to her about keeping things stable for the kids.
I asked you to say it in a constructive tone.
I think it'll be far more effective than falling on your sword to denounce her as if she is not caring about the kids.
My suggestions that you set the boundaries in a fun GAL way, would achieve 2 purposes with no down sides.
You'd set a boundary she'd be more receptive to AND you would add a little air of mystery with your upbeat CHANGED attitude.
And it's not going to escalate, correct?
How can this be a bad thing?
the Written agreement says what he wants it to say. There is no need to change the D agreement itself.
He and his wife have informally agreed to changes in the past. THAT is the issue.
I had another thought Ripe, are you just trying to delay signing?
I'm a L and I'm not giving you legal advice but I sure would like to know your Legal reasoning...
IF your wife breaches the divorce decree, Ripe can move to hold her in contempt or ask the judge to enforce it by not letting her go on a trip, or move a day, etc. (which is a pricey nuclear weapon to use and which you may regret later. Surely there may come a time when YOU might need a return favor)...
OR YOU CAN TALK TO HER....like 2 adults and work something out. That was the point of my earlier post.
[quote=bigybiz]Ripe:
I think most of us have wrestled with such issues. If you find your agreement is flawed
it's not the agreement. It's their VERBAL & mutually agreed upon Changes that are now troubling him.
===
I personally think it's best for the kids if their schedule is the same no matter what.
"No matter what"??
My mother died on my my brother's ex wife's week. The ex wife had their girls, and she lives in another state. She drove their daughters 7 hours, for the whole week of the funeral, got them new dresses and stayed at a friends while the daughters stayed with my brother.
Yes, they changed the schedule. When my former SIL was in a serious car accident, and again when she flew out of state for a job interview, they allowed their children's schedule to be flexible.
I THINK every div decree i've seen has allowed for "modifications with the express consent of both parties."
Ripe I must not understand your question. On one hand, no I don't think you concerns at PRESENT are worth arguing, and I don't think you are setting a LEGAL precedent by agreeing to a one day thing, now and then. I urged you to choose your battles wisely.
Secondly, IF they are worth arguing, or if you feel strongly about it - then all I'm saying is that you can raise the issue is a more effective way than what I'm picking up on.
Don't get egged on or let anyone (including me) project our situations onto yours.
Good luck
PS Ripe
I just read your whole thread again. I want to be very sure I understand your situation correctly.
I'm picking up on 2 related but separate issues.
1) You never wanted the divorce, and you'd still rather reconcile, correct?
You also said your showing up on the mainland is not required, but she's going. So Are you represented there?
Do you wish to delay the divorce by not signing or showing up?
Some say the number of people who remarry their former spouses is as high as 15%, some say it's 10%. This number is for couples who actually divorce, then remarry).
Would you be, at least in theory, open to ^^ this??
2) You Do want shared custody and you'd prefer no changes ever made to the arrangement, but you concede that in rare cases, it makes sense, correct?
So you are really debating how to adhere more closely to the agreement, correct?
I just want to know what your specific concerns are.
Almost every American jurisdiction will include a clause that states what the arrangements are and that "With both parties consent, this can be modified".
That's b/c the court wants parents to cooperate and b/c it does not want to use up time on its' docket to decide if Tuesday nights at 8 pm can be changed to 7pm. God knows that Lawyers make more money by debating these things.
One of my bff's is a divorce attorney (ugh!) She is amazed at how much of her "income would be gone, if the parents could just cooperate just a little more."
Ripe,
Are you concerned that you are "enabling the divorce", by taking the kids on her day?
QUESTIONS-- if she were to have a babysitter or relative care for them those days, rather than you, would you prefer that?
If that is not ever allowed in the decree, does that mean when you have the kids you can't ever have someone else watch them for an evening or a few hours? Because Someday you might want that.
If I understand your earlier posts, showing up in person isn't required for D finalization which is why you are not attending.
So, what are your options IF delaying the divorce is a goal?
Finally, Dig deep.
You don't have to say it here.
But it's important for you to know what your biggest emotions are right now. Whatever you are feeling down deep, absolutely affects how we see our situations
and can push us in directions that may not serve us well.
Do you feel fear, anger, sadness, regret, remorse, longing, acceptance, denial,
Some or all of ^^^these? They can all make sense.
Sometimes when we know what our heart is dealing with, we can see our situations more clearly.
My IC told me something about grief, when my mother died suddenly. I think it applies to any significant loss.
"If we stare at our grief, we can feel overwhelmed & paralyzed.
If we push it away or hide from it, it can sneak up & push us in the wrong direction.
So we have to learn to walk with grief beside us. The wound is there, but it's not paralyzing us or pushing us."
Good luck Ripe.
25yearsmlc,
First, let me start by saying this, because I really need to say it.
When I found this site back in 2014 (Oh my God, already three years) it was like a safe haven for me.
I spent hundreds, literally hundreds of hours, reading posts, old and new.
And you are on the top three posters I read more. I think I read everything you have ever written here. And I learned a lot with you.
Thank you for all the knowledge you transmit.
Now, to what you just wrote.
I never wanted to divorce and I wanted to reconcile. It happened briefly in 2015 when I was DBing at full speed. But I guess my wife was beyond MWD powers, so I got the divorce decree (I have also a legal background, but I am not a native speaker) last Friday.
I only knew about it today, when I went to my mailbox.
There was no legal obligation for me to be at the final hearing, so I was represented by a lawyer and I asked him not to inform me about the date and just send me a message when it would be done.
Ex-Wife (first time I say this) made a point of being present at that hearing, so she paid for the plane ticket and went to mainland for one week. It had something to do with being present at the wedding and at the end of it, she told a friend.
Right now I am not thinking about reconciliation. I find XW the least attractive woman in the world (and I have not been with a woman for almost two years). Someone who can cause so much pain to the two persons I love more in this world does not deserve my love.
So maybe it was some anger that made me have doubts about swapping the days like she asked.
We have been pretty flexible since we physically separated in October 2015 and I am OK with it. For me what is written in the agreement can be changed if both parents consent, just like you said. What made me have the doubts was the fact that lately we were swapping a lot. So this, coupled with the fact that I knew why she was asking for the change in the routine, made me want to say no. Also because I want what is best for the kids and sometimes it is difficult to clearly see what that is. Is changing all the time good for the kids, even if both parents agree?
And that was why I came here.
But now I can admit that knowing she was flying to get the divorce she wanted was the main reason why I did not want to change like she asked.
You are right, 25y, we need to choose our battles wisely.
And this one was not worth it.
Right now I also feel relieved. Since the bomb the suffering has been too much. This divorce settles it. I can move on.
Your IC advice on grief is very wise.
Before, I would avoid my pains and anxieties and try to run away from them.
My new me learned this precious two words when I started meditating: "I consent".
Right now I consent to the pain I am feeling.
Another question to the parents out there reading this: what do you tell your kids when they are being nasty and say thinks like "Mom's house is so much better than yours" and "everything there is so much better than here" and "I wish I would be there right now and not in this horrible place"?
XW arrived yesterday from the mainland after having signed the divorce papers.
Today I took the kids to her place. Dropped them off at her door, waited for the door to open and took of.
Did not see XW, as usual.
Three minutes later my phone rang. I thought it was one of the kids wanting to talk to me, maybe something he forgot something in the car or at my place.
It was XW.
Said good morning. Then she told me S10 was having a tantrum because the mother dyed her hair and was telling her he wanted to come to my place or use a blindfold for the rest of the week.
She wanted me to have a conversation with S10.
I said yes and talked to S10. Said it was his mother's choice and that he had to respect that. Added gustibus et coloribus non disputandum and that by the end of the day he would be used. He did not need to approve but had to respect.
Only after hanging the phone I realized: what the hell has that to do with me? Why is she asking me to intervene in a situation she created?
I know it has something to do with S10 behaviour, but I am not WX husband any more and I'm not there any more because she chose so.
Another question to the parents out there reading this: what do you tell your kids when they are being nasty and say thinks like "Mom's house is so much better than yours" and "everything there is so much better than here" and "I wish I would be there right now and not in this horrible place"?
That's a tricky thing. Two reasons for that kind of behavior: Either you are coming down on them in ways she doesn't, or some sort of parental alienation. If it is alienation, better get a grasp on that real quick-like.
Hello my friend.
I pray that you are doing well.