After "successfully" piecing back together in 2013, we're back about where we started a few years ago. I say successfully in quotes because clearly we did not fix everything.
We've been far more best friends than anything and our sex life over the years reflects this. Our life as a family could not be any better, but life as husband and wife continues to suffer. We both know and acknowledge our contributions here, but she seems done.
We've decided to do an in-house separation by setting up the extra bedroom to allow for space. I'm ok with this because I've got to get my self in order. I have recognized some significant depression issues that I'm seeing a therapist to help.
With Round 2, I'm glad I understand the Walk-Away Wife, but wonder if I already blew my shot here. Last time was very healing for me, but I did not turn it into long-lasting change. She recognized my changes to the positive and ultimately came back. I worry that I burned that bridge never to be crossed again.
In the last few weeks, I'm getting myself back and feeling better. Some days better than others as we all know, but happier than I've been in a while. Once the bad is exposed as opposed to ignored or swept under the rug, there's such a sense of relief.
I guess since this ain't my first rodeo I'm in a good place to know that my best foot forward is working on myself. It's weird because in some ways I don't know who that person is because I've just been the working, rearing dad for so long. You think you're doing the best for your family by ignoring personal growth and all you end up is being a shell of what you were and guess what folks, that ain't all that attractive to the Mrs.
I know I can't worry about what she thinks about me because that is what it is. She's the only one to think and feel for herself and she's responsible for her own happiness. If I end up being in that equation, that's great and if I'm not then I will have to deal with that.
My recent 180 (let's say last two weeks) has been noticed but again I'm concerned it's too little too late. I say that because it's pissing her off. She knows that last time I reacted the same way, but again no true, long-lasting changes took place.
I guess this is a good recap to start. Looking for any guidance, support, words, etc. that y'all are willing to share.
I give you this to start with a Beginners Mind
even though you have been here before.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
no true, long-lasting changes took place.
So what true long lasting changes do you want to make?
Thanks Cadet. Good easy statement to throw out there and harder one to define, which is why I'm assuming you asked!! I fall into the category of "nice guy" and one who is a pleaser, but I'm understanding more about needing my interests, my passions to become more of who I am.
As a husband, I've felt like giving of myself and putting my needs last was something I needed to do for the family. Always making myself available and trying to please all home chores, grocery shopping, etc. would somehow reap a reward. I'm learning this is wrong on many levels.
Too many times asking, "what else can I do to help?" and not just being a man and doing things, owning responsibilities. My wife has primarily been a SAHM for years with just recently going back to work (both prior to round 1 and this round).
By trying to "reap a reward", I'm realizing now how manipulative that behavior can be. When no reward is there, I'd feel hurt, dismissed, rejected and go into depression.
In that depression, I'm obviously not very pleasant to be around. Not a shining light, but a dim and dusty lamp. I don't want to be that person and I've got a decent road ahead of me to figure out how I change.
I need to get back to my passions to live and not just be like the Dunkin Donuts guy ("time to make the donuts"). In our therapy sessions over the past few years, I liken myself to a camel. A camel can "survive" in the desert with minimal water/food, but does that camel really thrive??? I'd get happy with connections (not just sex, but intimate conversations/connections) on minimal occassions, but it was good enough for me till the next. It's obviously not the same for the Mrs. and I get it.
Does that make sense?
As a husband, I've felt like giving of myself and putting my needs last was something I needed to do for the family.
Always making myself available and trying to please all home chores, grocery shopping, etc. would somehow reap a reward.
I'm learning this is wrong on many levels.
If your married to someone that has Acts of Service as a love language this might be great.
However if she is a Touch or Gifts person it is totally off base.
Being a NICE GUY and EXPECTING a reward for it is totally off base I agree.
If you want to be a NICE GUY then it has to be for you,
not any other reason.
Being a NICE GUY myself it is hard work to stop.
Keep learning and posting
On the expecting a reward, it's not really like I would do something and expect something of equal value in return. It's a bit different than that.
It's more like my relationship would be satisfied from that and agree love languages could be off base with each other. I think when I was not satsified it just lead to depression, withdrawal, etc.
That has been such a huge struggle in our relationship and what I know is that it would impact me going forward with or without my wife. That's why I want more long-lasting change.
Glad I started posting today. Got a call at lunch and she's ready to sign up for a one-bedroom apartment. We've talked about this being a potential next step if our in-house separation does not give enough space. Our plan is to share this one-bedroom as a place to be away from home. Once school is out we'll have designated nights to stay at our home and other nights at the apartment.
It's so weird when you talk about something and are ok but then you're not ok the next time it comes around. Just kind of hit hard. Apartment will not be available until mid-May, so two months before that.
I guess it's "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" time.
Looking for advice on how to handle outings with my wife's family and going dark. They're very aware of our situation and are very supportive and just want us to be happy. We'll get together with her Mom or her Dad (divorced) and they're both very welcoming of me.
I can look at these opportunities two ways: 1) an opportunity to just be who I am with my wife, kids and her family as I continue to work on myself or 2) an opportunity to withdraw myself.
I am comfortable with the 1st as I did it before and as I said earlier am already finding strength in myself.
On the second, the biggest detractor to me is my kids. They are aware of our struggles, but if I do withdraw here I don't want them to think I'm walking away. It's completely the opposite in that I'd struggle through this for years if it kept our family unit intact.
Part of my struggle with going to these functions is allowing my wife to "have her cake and eat it too". If I'm there, I feel like she's not having to grieve over the loss of me. Yes, she's choosing this, but I understand the pain that goes along with saying she needs space / wants out / can't do this anymore.
She talked last night about reconciling the first time and how she was worried she'd lose the kids. I asked if that was the only reason and she said no because she needed to feel "safe". I totally hate using the term "safe space" here, but that's what our family is. We really do have each others backs as a family unit and just didn't fight for our relationship as H/W in order to keep the safety net in tact, if that makes sense.
So my dilemma is missing opportunities to be with my family vs. detaching more and more. Any insights would be greatly appreciated.
So my dilemma is missing opportunities to be with my family vs. detaching more and more. Any insights would be greatly appreciated.
Tryin,
I think you should go to the family events, but insist that your wife join everyone for fun family games. For example...
- Zombie apocalypse. Your wife plays the zombie.
- Pin the tale on the donkey. Your wife is the donkey.
- Whack-a-mole. Your wife is the mole.
- Cops and robber. Your wife is the robber and must resist arrest.
- Human piņata. Your wife hands out candy every time she gets whacked.
You get the idea. It can be great family fun as well as a learning experience.
And tale should be tail. Or maybe that was a Freudian slip?
LOL... whack-a-mole... I do like that mallet... and the wacky music.
So aside from the fun family games you mentioned, you think continuing to go to these outings would be ok. Not necessary to avoid these to help detachment issues?
Tryin,
I honestly don't know what's best. If it were me, and my kids were involved, I'd be there and make the best of the occasion (i.e. no arguing or fighting). But, every situation is different. I think you should just use your judgement at the given time.
If it were me, and my kids were involved, I'd be there and make the best of the occasion
AGREED
Be the BEST DAD you can be, you can never go wrong doing that!
It is very attractive too!
Thanks Doodler and Cadet.
I feel like my kids have already been enjoying me more over the past few weeks. Since I've been more open to talk about my depression, it's created some "cleaner air" that I'm breathing. Does not make this any easier, but it helps.
Looking forward to an evening with an old buddy of mine tonight to catch up. He's one of my best friends from High School and always calls it like it is.
When my W and I reconciled, his concern was exactly what's happening right now that we'd right back where we are. I'm curious what he's going to think of my updated status.
Hoping to have a few frosty adult beverages and then I'm taking a few days off of work for some spring cleaning around the house. We've got a deadline at work coming up and could use some downtime. Hoping it will be therapeutic to clean up.
Had dinner with my buddy last night and it was nice to catch up. He was my closest friend in high school and we went different paths after college/marriage. He and his wife chose no kids and we have our beautiful two munchkins (my D13 would give me that teenage stare right now for calling her a munchkin).
Great conversation and just a nice night to be and GAL.
Going to put in our application for the apartment we will be sharing over the next year. Can't move in until early May but that's good for the kids. We've already talked to them about this and it's been ok so far.
Our shared apartment might be unconventional, but it's much better than moving in with my parents on "away" nights. Did that last time and it was really, really difficult. My parents liked to create this "bubble" world for me where there were no issues or where issues were ignored. In their minds, they were protecting me, but it actually created some of the challenges in my relationships now. Not dealing with issues does not make them go away.
At my parent's house, when sh*t did hit the fan, I could walk in the house and there would not be a light on in the house. My parents would just sulk until the initial pain would go over and then they'd move forward. What have I done in the past, I'll soak in all the pain and just try to swallow it like a big pill and not deal, so not far off from what they would do.
What is it that allows this to happen. Lack of confidence and self-esteem are definitely triggers for me. Fear is definitely there. All these things are pieces of me that can be challenged and overcome. I know this. Doesn't make it easy to do, but I do know this. I also know that with or without my W they will be important things to overcome for future relationships and for my relationship with my kids.
Does anyone have any good suggestions on how to process these emotions and overcome them in their experiences?
Does anyone have any good suggestions on how to process these emotions and overcome them in their experiences?
Tryin,
I worked on home projects, bought hundreds (maybe thousands) of dollars worth of plants and ate copious amounts of hummus. The home projects and plants worked out fairly well, but the hummus created chronic farting and irate coworkers.
Doodler,
Understand the hummus eating. It really goes well with everything. I think I'm gonna break open some Sabra right now.
Surprised my S10 by stopping by for lunch with him at school. Really made my day and by the looks of it his.
Surprised my S10 by stopping by for lunch with him at school. Really made my day and by the looks of it his.
I always loved having lunch with my sons at school. I didn't do enough of that.
Doodler, pick up the bat phone
I always loved having lunch with my sons at school. I didn't do enough of that.
Definitely has not been my strong suit, but I love it every time. The train has left the station for that with my D13, but that's having a teenager.
I always loved having lunch with my sons at school. I didn't do enough of that.
Definitely has not been my strong suit, but I love it every time. The train has left the station for that with my D13, but that's having a teenager.
I try to at least go every week or two...
I try to at least go every week or two...
Jeep - That's fantastic. I'm typically about 2-3 times a school year. Work is a bit of a drive from my kids school, but should figure that out.
To help with my detachment, I had to take off my wedding ring. Today is a bit of an anniversary of sorts as it was 4 years ago that I "got it". By got it, I mean I had a few months of sorting out things and finally understood the WAW. More important than that was I understood and accepted my contributions to our R.
Still trying to process my guilt at letting it slide again. It's a tough pill to swallow as I was onto something 4 years ago in my own personal development, but let things slip. Woulda, coulda, shoulda doesn't help right now.
So it is relieving to have my ring off because otherwise I feel like I'm holding on and grasping at straws. "Hope is a Prison" in a way as you go through this stuff.
I can see my detachment is having some impacts with the W. As she left for work today, she was telling me about her day and what she was doing. I wasn't rude or anything, but uninterested. She then said, "Just telling you my day because that's what I always do." I could sense sadness on her part in this. I know this does not mean anything really in the grand scheme of things, but it helps in detaching for me personally.
She's got plans to go to dinner with one of her best friends who just told her H that she thinks they will not make it in their M. Misery loves company? I'm glad she's getting out to continue to release the pain she has.
It's weird processing the ring / detachment and not feel like you're giving up on the M. If anything, it really takes courage to make this step in acknowledging everything, but hard shaking some feelings of "throwing in the towel".
What advice does anyone have in trying to process the feelings of giving up on your M vs. detachment like my comment on the ring?
What advice does anyone have in trying to process the feelings of giving up on your M vs. detachment like my comment on the ring?
I don't have any advice, but I do have a question. If we were truly detached, would we even bother logging into the DB forum?
I don't have any advice, but I do have a question. If we were truly detached, would we even bother logging into the DB forum?
I now have to clean up my laptop since I just spit out my water all over it, but I'll gladly do that for this one. You one funny SOB. Keep 'em coming.
Woke up feeling ok. We had planned on family vacation at the beach with W's family and now it looks like I'll get half and W will get half. W says "I think they'd rather be with you than me right now". I'm just excited to be there with kidos. We should be in the apartment by this time too. Good space all around.
Talked this morning on two things: 1) Trip next year - My D13 will be finishing up grade school next year and we've been planning a trip to celebrate. Talked about keeping those plans for the 4 of us plus one of my D's friends. Don't see any reason not to keep these plans.
2) W told her cousin who brought up having outside relationships interfere with our current stich. I told W to do what she wants, but my plan is to just work on me. Having space to being alone is real important right not IMHO. I confess that I did recommend not mixing a relationship in with the process of healing, but reiterated that she can do what she wants.
For the outside relationship talk, do you think that was handled right? Any type of "thou shalt not", etc. to me would be too needy, clingy.
It's hard to navigate this stuff and feel confident, but it's all about improving myself and damn everything else. I put the best I have to offer out there and let the chips fall where they may.
Any advice, comments, etc. welcomed!!
W says "I think they'd rather be with you than me right now".
Yikes. Just yikes. I can't imagine a mother saying that and relinquishing time.
I told W to do what she wants, but my plan is to just work on me. Having space to being alone is real important right not IMHO. I confess that I did recommend not mixing a relationship in with the process of healing, but reiterated that she can do what she wants.
Giving her the green light...
[quote]W says "I think they'd rather be with you than me right now".
That was more about her family than our kids. Our kids are incredible and very supportive of the two of us. I couldn't be prouder for how they're handling this.
Giving her the green light...
Not intention and more of our dialogue was about just healing and not really what's next (our R or another R). Appreciate the honesty on that Jeep. Guess that's why it's good posting and getting support and feedback.
Interesting weekend. Really good one with me and the kidos and really appreciate them more than ever. Hate that it's times like these that reset priorities, but take it.
We worked a water table for a charity run yesterday for a cause near and dear to my Sister's heart. I had to get through this before telling my family because I wanted the focus on my Sister's cause and not our R drama.
We had a wonderful morning together as a family. Good relaxed convo with the W as opposed to the last month or so of heavy R discussion. Grabbed lunch after the event and the W noticed I took of my ring and said "that's surprising". She was immediately ready to go after that and I could see she was upset.
Late afternoon I got to go to my parents, brother and sister and catch them up on things. Very supportive and glad to have some of this mess off my chest.
This morning as we're getting ready for school the W asked my S10 about signing his conduct card from last week which I told her I had already taken care of. She responds "I guess I'm really not needed around here as you're just knocking it out the park."
Know that I'm happier in my detachment than getting noticed by the W. It's really the only way to tackle this head on. She's gonna lose out on the M that we have and I know this and can sleep well at night knowing this.
Going to see our old marriage counselor today without the W. As she knows our failings better than anyone, I just want to reset with her about how I'm dealing on self. Is this validation of some sort, sure, but I look at it as a step in the process.
She responds "I guess I'm really not needed around here as you're just knocking it out the park."
Tryin,
I hope you validated her comment.
Tryin,
I hope you validated her comment.
With a wink and a smile and then I walked away...
With a wink and a smile and then I walked away...
You're super cool!
You've got a good handle on how this stuff works.
You're super cool!
You've got a good handle on how this stuff works.
Problem is and has been making sustainable changes. Life gets ahead of you and you lose your focus. Learning a lot about being a little selfish and doing for me is not a bad thing at all. In fact, not doing for me makes a real dull me.
Love the quote from The Shining: "All work and no play make Jack a dull boy." It's really freaking true.
I fixed a bit my work-life balance a few years ago, but still did not fix me as an individual nor me as a husband. Really improved as me the dad and that's been wonderful.
Venting today as I'm mixed up emotionally. No change on the path and that's all good. Just irritated.
The W gave the "been alone forever" speech today and I kindly validated the statements and her feelings. I called her on her contributions to this in a firm, gentle way not trying to create a real R or M discussion and this was fine.
She said in the end of this that "this is not the type of marriage I want" and I said "well we can both agree on that" and walked off to head to the gym. For us, it's about the intimacy or lack there of and we're in 100% agreement.
Please know that I understand my faults in this and am not dismissing them (depression, expressing myself). The emotional part for me is just plain anger. She doesn't bring up issues and problems for years and then it's I want out.
We've both ignored and both have equal contributions into this mess. I get that we might not be able to unwind it and so be it. I find it to be a weak excuse for things and it's the classic WAS. I get it, but sometimes I just don't get it!!!!!
She's wanting to move up the apartment because she's got control issues. Right now, it's really the only thing she has control over in her life. At the house, me and the kids got it under wraps. She's been running over to her female co-worker for support because her family is not 100% supportive on this. They know she's going to do what she wants.
Ugh... starting to feel like a rant, so I'll run at this point. I know many of y'all here feel both sides of this whether you are the WAS or the LBS. I'm just really thankful to have found this site and everyone here to bend an ear and support.
She doesn't bring up issues and problems for years and then it's I want out.
Yep. In her mind, she's checked out long before mentioning it. Maybe she held out hoping things would change. Maybe she mentioned, however casually, things that bothered her. Maybe she didn't. That's all irrelevant now, though. No use in trying to figure it out because you won't get the answer you want.
That's all irrelevant now, though. No use in trying to figure it out because you won't get the answer you want.
No doubt. Serenity right? I'm really not even wanting an answer right now at all. Is part of me not wanting that because I already know what that answer is? Sure. Part of me is just wanting space as well a big T.O. Baby ala Dick Vitale.
Ultimately, I know I don't get to determine all that. What I do know is my life for me and my life for my kids is about to get great with or without the W.
What I do know is my life for me and my life for my kids is about to get great with or without the W.
You, my friend, are in an awesome place. Good on ya!
You, my friend, are in an awesome place. Good on ya!
Thanks Jeep. It takes work to stay there, but it is good. Since this my second time with my W, the shock factor is less. All the questions of why we got here have answers. Still miserable to be doing this again, but that all helps in a huge way. I'll be a better man after this.
In all honesty, are you wanting to try and save or hang up your hat?
Without flinching, try and save.
Without flinching, try and save.
I can understand that. Hope it all works for you, my friend.
I mentioned that the W has control issues (she doesn't want to be in control, but if you take control its peanut gallery/back street driver stuff). It's getting comical.
So I'm doing what I'm doing and just trying to be the best man, best dad at the house (see earlier comment that the W said "I guess I'm just not needed around here"). I've noticed that she's almost competing with me to do things.
She seems to be going out of her way to beat me to homework help, chores and anything else for the kids. What's been interesting is that my kids have been gravitating to me a lot more than ever (and the dog too). I know this has to do with my positive changes.
Also, the W has been spending a ton of time with her co-worker and the kids have noticed. Co-worker is female and just a friend, but she's steadily become the W's crutch in this because her family is confused right now. So the kids have noticed a bit and have become closer as I have become closer with them.
There are many similarities to this round vs. the last round 4 years ago. I'm just glad I've got my stuff together and am enjoying the heck out of life with my munchkins. The dust will settle at some point, but I know it's not any point soon.
You seem to be doing well, my friend. Keep it up!
I can relate to the control issues. My ex did it very passively, if that makes sense.
Jeep - Definitely makes sense on the passive controlling.
Sandi/25/Or anyone with advice - One of the puzzling parts for me in the withdrawal / detachment is balancing activities with her family. Right now, all events are wide open to me and in fact I'll be splitting vacation time with my W and her family in May (W goes first few days and I go back half of week at beach with my in-laws).
I appreciate that this is all open to me and love her family. Where I hesitate is being there with her physically and I can explain a little more.
One of our core needs is feeling safe. Its this need that made us both not fight so as to "rock the boat". Classic resentment build up between both of us. While I'm not doing everything I did last time in DB'ing (I'm doing more!!), the withdrawal physically was a big thing because then she did not have me as a safety net.
I know we'll have plenty of this physical space once the apartment life is up and running (we're sharing the apartment - W days at home with kids, Me at apartment; visa versa), but I also know we've got events with her family that I am welcomed to.
Part of me wants to just be there with my kids and enjoying these opportunities and part of me wants to not go so I am just not there. I know I asked this last week, but I'm still conflicted and trying to work through this.
Advice/comments would be greatly appreciated.
Keep on keeping on, my friend. You got this!
we've got events with her family that I am welcomed to.
Welcomed in your eyes or theirs?
Part of me wants to just be there with my kids and enjoying these opportunities and part of me wants to not go so I am just not there.
I know the feeling. I am the same, too. Its the kids that make me want to do anything. But then again, the ex and her family are going the parental alienation route...
Jeep,
Her family reaches out via phone/text directly to me to come to some of these. No alienation going on.
Sorry you're getting that side of the business. It's bad enough dealing with a D from a spouse and then have alienation all together.
Be well my friend.
Thank you for the kind words. It's all good...the alienation part is where the anger lies.
Good Morning Y'all... Had a good night with one of my best friends last night who's about in the same boat as me. He's a tad bit different in he has little to no emotion at all about it. That's just his personality. Makes me jealous sometimes and others not.
It's really crazy when you sit back and think of how so many of us just get complacent in our M without even knowing it. Daily life, daily grind, work, bills, responsibilities, kids, etc. just take your attention off of things and it's hard to get on top.
Honestly, and I've said this to my W, I'm glad she sparked this now whether we end up D or not. I KNOW we'd end up D if she had not had and it probably would have been once the kids are in college. Am I going to get another shot at this with the W, I don't know and I'm starting to accept that I don't care.
Let me rephrase that... I can't care because it weighs you down. It's serenity. It's out of my control. I feel for the most part my steps forward are more than my steps backward and I'm grateful for this.
I hope everyone has a great weekend.
Trying
Tryin-
For me, getting to the point of not putting all your bets on her coming back (i.e. "not caring"), is where I first found some real peace. When you start to see that you are a good guy and deserve better from her or someone new, that is where I felt like my power really grew. I have also found that that "peace/power" ebbs and flows, so when it is down, keep your chin up, and when it is up, use it.
Keep on fighting, for you and your kids.
LW - Peace is the word my man. There's back and forth but Peace is the word. My cousin has been on a M/D ride for a good 2+ years and she told me "I hope you find peace" as soon as we got to catch up.
I guess we're all sparring partners on this site. Get in some good work outs to keep up the strength, conditioning and skills.
Have a great one.
Hi trying2 figure it out
I really feel for all you guys that went through this once only to be in the same situation years later.
You're back on here kicking yourself for not being exciting enough, or not being romantic enough, or not being happy enough and thus your spouse wants to leave again.
Truth is, life is mundane. We all have to work and raise kids and get through the daily grind. Marriage is about being a team and working as a unit when life isn't filled with excitement and highs. Many of these WAS, want something unrealistic and quite frankly that's on them. I'm just saying you can try and try and ultimately it's about them having unrealistic expectations and an inability to appreciate their own lives.
Focus on you and how great your life is right now. If she wants out that's her own path and search for non existing greener pasteurs.
I truly agree with Juju on this one. Unrealistic expectations are a killer. Essentially, they hold you to a standard that is unreachable, and THAT IS ON THEM. It is not up to you to MAKE them happy.
JujuB,
Thanks for the support. No doubt there's an expectation situation here and I know that's on my W. I don't blame her as I want more out of our M, but the mundane can keep you in a fog.
Once that fog is lifted, you realize there's way more to life that you're not tapping into. Is it too little to late for my M, I have no clue and I'm not holding onto that.
LW - Learning quickly on the lack of responsibility to make the other happy. Not that I did a good job in the first place.
Had a great detachment item yesterday. The W was going to have dinner with her female co-worker who seems to be her greatest source of comfort these days. I was on my phone reading a self-help book (man, am I becoming addicted) and wanted to tell me something before she left.
I walked over, while still reading my book, and I could see she was upset. She said that she saw I had two coffee cups out for the morning, but she was spending the night at her friends house. I curtly said, "Oh, ok. Have fun." and walked off engrossed in my book.
What was great about this was I really felt detached when saying it. Yes, I purposefully said it curtly, but it felt very easy and relieving doing so.
After she left taking my D13 to a birthday party, I took my S10 to meet up with my Sister-In-Law, her kids and boyfriend for dinner / movie. Had a blast with my son and really enjoyed the night.
Yesterday was a bit of roller coaster and been waiting for it. The W and I took the munchkins to see Beauty & The Beast and had a fantastic time. We then went over to my FIL for Sunday dinner and things were good, but very heavy for my W.
She's consumed by guilt (her words not mine) on knowing she's disrupting our lives, our family's lives, our friend's lives, etc. This is where I do think the apartment/home schedule will be helpful to get some space to breathe.
We talked about it a bit before bed and I was extremely cautious in this discussion but firm. Trying my best to not explode on her with all my stuff and just listen, validate, support.
I felt like Sandi and 25 were playing their best Robot from Lost in Space on my shoulder because there were a few "Danger Will Robinson, Danger" moments. :-)
The W talked about taking all this in stages to keep our head's on straight. Apartment first, getting schedules down, etc. No paperwork, no financial, etc.
I said I was in no rush there. We need the space to breathe and let the dust settle. We need a number of weeks, a few months to just be before doing anything else and she was fine with that, but I can see her perspective is to take the steps for a D.
I said something to the effect of needing to understand the new norm (50% time with kids, financial impacts of splitting, etc.) and that is that what we want. She said its definitely not what she wants, but it might be what we have to do. She said is the right answer supposed to be that she just stays and I said no and that I know that's not how this works.
I stopped there because I was feeling "Danger Will Robinson" all over this. I knew no talk of my changes, being aware, doing things different would just set her off.
We spoke again this morning and about my emotions having been shut off for so long (my depression issues I'm working on). She said there's just so much hurt there for so long and I understand.
It turned into a playful discussion on our finances which was ridiculous. I said something about a million dollar idea that I should try and sell and she said, "well you just said this in our house, so that's community property buddy". I told her those profits were going to be stored in a mattress in my parents house for later, gave her a hug and a kiss on her head from behind.
This stuff gets strange from time to time. I see her tea leaves and I'm working at accepting knowing it doesn't change my path. Hope everyone has a great Monday (who am I kidding, I'm not sure there is anything as a great Monday).
Feeling weak today. The detaching has been so helpful to me, but can't help but want to be there for her in my "awakened" self.
I know she doesn't want me (new or old) right now and I know that might not ever change. Just seems so stupid to me to sign up for half-time with our wonderful kids, financial stress, etc. when there are so many good things about us.
Ladies, please know I'm not downplaying the hurt that I've caused or dismissing it. I'm glad I'm seeing these issues and understanding my part in it. Whether it's my poor listening skills, handling my depression, etc., I'll be a better man for all this with or without the W.
It just plain stinks when you finally see it all, but there's nothing you can do to correct the past except through current actions. Hard to swallow the bitter pill of "too little, too late".
Path forward remains the same, but getting sucked under today.
Realizing that I made myself too vulnerable on Sunday which set me up for a bad day yesterday. Back at trying to be on top of the waves today instead of pulled under.
Looking for advice on financial situation. Since this ain't our first rodeo, we essentially have separate finances. All of our savings are in one account and I know we'd ultimately split if D happens.
I've spoken before about cake eating and wanting to minimize that and it's really on two fronts: 1) time with kids and 2) finances.
We're going to be splitting an apartment starting in a few weeks with one parent home with kids and other parent at apartment. She's wanting it to be pretty open at the house with the kids, but I know I'm going to have to hold firm on scheduled time (W not intruding on my time w/ kids).
On Finances, I make more than her and pay all bills. She's already agreed to pay for the apartment (she just went back to work in September). Her income has been there to help offset grocery spending, paying down CC debt and household spending.
I'm looking at doing the calculations for child support and trying to incorporate this "new life" in with our separation.
What I mean is, she should pay for her car note, portion of home expenses (house payment/apt wash), and her expenses (such as gas, groceries, etc.).
Ultimately, if we start the D process, we'll end up here and maybe it's a bit of damned if I do, damned if I don't or even 6 in one and half a dozen in the other.
Does anyone have advice on pushing this financial split while in separation vs. waiting for D processes? This is not some real spiteful action I'm trying to take here, but more prevention of cake eating and protecting myself.
Would this do more harm than good in forcing this agenda before we've actually brought up attorneys and D?
Does anyone have advice on pushing this financial split while in separation vs. waiting for D processes? This is not some real spiteful action I'm trying to take here, but more prevention of cake eating and protecting myself.
Would this do more harm than good in forcing this agenda before we've actually brought up attorneys and D?
I would seriously talk to an atty before doing this. Protect yourself.
Jeep,
I have talked to our attorney from the last time. He said we should consider documenting the financial splits when/if we separated physically. Community property state and no concerns on 50/50 custody, so there's really nothing to split but the numbers.
My deal is on the cake eating. Just trying to minimize.
Trying
April 21st is now lease day for the apartment and I'll get first weekend. My Sister in Law is divorced and has 50/50, so trying to synch up schedules where my W has the kids when SIL has hers.
Looking forward to this next chapter. Things are good. Pressure is off a bit as we hit some ups and downs this weekend. I've actually noticed things get more playful from both my side and hers and that's been nice. I know it doesn't mean anything in this marathon, but it's been nice.
We've got an event for my son this weekend and had originally bought 3 tickets not knowing who would go. We asked him who he wants to go and he said Mom & Dad. Love this kid. My W works half a day Saturday, so we'll pick up at Noon to go.
Feeling stronger today and am thankful for that. Hope everyone has a good one.
Good night with the munchkins although math homework with D13 is like slaying a dragon with one arm tied behind my back and some silly string for my weapon. She can be one serious beast.
Caught up a little with my Sister-in-Law as she's not really in communication with my W. Don't worry, I wasn't fishing for info or snooping because I know she's not talking to my W now.
It's strange as I'm more comforting my W's family about this whole thing than my W. She's in Rogue mode and that's just where it is.
Started thinking about the apartment and getting back into cooking. I love cooking. My schedule with the kids will be every other weekend and Wed PM/Thurs/Fri AM, so when I don't have the kids I'll be solo Fri PM - Wed PM. Those weekends I'll cook up some grub for the week, freeze, etc.
I've always wanted to try some cooking some french cuisine, but cooking does take some time, makes a mess and is a lot with kids running around. I steadily stopped cooking more often and we did simple meals due to keeping up with the kids.
Balance will be not cooking so much that I don't eat too much as I'm working on this Dad Bod. Summer will be here soon and we've got a pool at the apartment. Watch out!!!
All for now. Hope everyone has a great day.
Started thinking about the apartment and getting back into cooking. I love cooking. My schedule with the kids will be every other weekend and Wed PM/Thurs/Fri AM, so when I don't have the kids I'll be solo Fri PM - Wed PM. Those weekends I'll cook up some grub for the week, freeze, etc.
Tryin,
When I was married I used to cook a lot. I haven't cooked nearly as much since our separation. It's so time consuming to set the table cook and clean up. I wish I could get back into it, but I have so many other demands on my time. One day...
I've always wanted to try some cooking some french cuisine, but cooking does take some time, makes a mess and is a lot with kids running around. I steadily stopped cooking more often and we did simple meals due to keeping up with the kids.
It is time consuming, for sure. I only handled the grill in my M, but I just recently started a cooking class and I love it! Been whipping up all kinds of new cuisines lately and the kids even help sometimes! Cooking has become a great activity that we now do together.
Cooking is fun with the kids, but my kids are such picky eaters. In the quest to get some of my time back for me, I just know I'll enjoy doing it even if I'm making a mess.
Not that I needed this to confirm my W is all wrapped up in her own world, but took over Easter Bunny duties this morning. She would never not want to do this, but she talked about having to go after work to "get that done". I told her I'd do it because I really want to.
Looking forward to the weekend. We're taking our S10 to Monster Trucks this weekend (Jeep - I'll be on the look out for Tacomas). Sunday is my niece's birthday on my side. My family knows what's going on so I'm hoping they won't bring me down with a pity party.
Hoping to watch Fantastic Beasts with my D13 tonight. She just got it this week.
Hope everyone has a great weekend.
So last night went furniture shopping for the apartment with the W. It was interesting and we actually had a bit of fun. I flirted with her throughout without being pushy and she noticed my changes. She said, "I'm not use to all this newness."
When I say changes, it's really just simply my attack against my depression. It's really more about me facing it and lifting a bit of the dark cloud that I've let drown me out. I'm enjoying it.
At one point, she said, "wow, so now you think i'm funny" and I said quickly, "you've always made me laugh and I've always loved your humor". She told me that she was about to cry and had to hold it back. I told her I was just being honest.
Towards the end, she said that she wasn't sure how she was so calm and whether she's just insane or just feeling better moving forward. My inner voice said one answer (you can guess), but I said "it's probably a bit of both" and she smiled.
Came home to movie night with the kids and we watched Fantastic Beasts after picking up some movie candy for the kidos. Really enjoyed time together.
Hope everyone has a great weekend.
Enjoyed the day yesterday, but a bit ticked as the W spent the night at her female co-worker's again without telling me. She mentioned she was going to watch a movie, but not spend the night. Gonna call it out when she gets back because I'd normally not say anything.
We went to monster trucks with S10 and had a great time. Real interesting mix of people there. Then my D13 had her best friend come over and we had homemade pizza night and hung out (as much as you can with teenagers). It was a good day.
Going to my niece's b-day party today and hoping my family doesn't overwhelm me with a pity party. My mom & dad's way of dealing with things is ignoring them. It's a big problem for me in my relationship with my W and one of the main things I'm working on.
When my parents/family do deal with something, it usually turns into a big "sulk and sigh" fest. I've actually come to embrace my sitch pretty well and am enjoying the growth ("what doesn't kill us makes us stronger"). It can just be a terrible weight that I don't need or want right now with the pity party.
I've got some travel for work this week before the kids get out of school for Spring/Easter break. Looking forward to catching up in person with some of my work peeps. Busy time right now at work and that's been a helpful distraction.
Tryin
Just wanted to observe on the difference between change and shift.
Change can reverse and shift is done from knowledge. Once you know you never unknow.
This experience can be big shifts, it isn't just about R or new M or piecing or rebuilding.
It's about truly making you a new H and father.
There is nothing sexier in my book than a great dad, and that's my own view. Although your W may see it differently.
This all seems very good humoured and cooperative. Buying furniture together, all rather jolly hockey sticks. I can't quite get the grasp of the bon homie.
Tell me more about the deep blues that haunted you.
V
Vanilla - Thanks for dropping in...
Just wanted to observe on the difference between change and shift.
Change can reverse and shift is done from knowledge. Once you know you never unknow.
This experience can be big shifts, it isn't just about R or new M or piecing or rebuilding.
It's about truly making you a new H and father.
There is nothing sexier in my book than a great dad, and that's my own view. Although your W may see it differently.
Really like the change vs. shift and I am focused on these changes to be permanent shifts in my behavior. The shift is for whether I am with my W or not as it's more for me and my kids. See below for more 411 on my shifts that I'm tackling.
The W said Sunday that I've been amazing with the kids lately. I told her that I'm just doing what I need to do, but I appreciate her noticing and saying something.
This all seems very good humoured and cooperative. Buying furniture together, all rather jolly hockey sticks. I can't quite get the grasp of the bon homie.
Tell me more about the deep blues that haunted you.
On the bon homie, it's a little bit 180 for me. We were in the rut of responsibilities and very little fun. After realizing my depression and all the issues it causes for myself and my W and kids, I've changed or dare I say shifted perspectives.
I'm trying to just enjoy each day for what it brings regardless of how much it all hurts. I'm a heck of a lot of fun when I want to be and that's who I'd rather be than the woe is me guy.
On deep blues, the depression has been something new for me to identify. I've always carried a lot of burden internally and just grinned and bared it to not cause issues. My learned behavior from my parents was to just ignore issues until they were no longer issues. I'm learning to shift my approach here.
It's been sorta surreal with working through depression/withdrawal over the past few weeks. My D13 and I love taking our dog on walks and chatting. I was overwhelmed with sadness one of these walks a few weeks ago because of something. We hadn't walked 2 minutes and she asked me what's wrong and I knew I was slipping and needed to get on top of the depression wave. Learning how to identify and accept the feelings, but changing the thoughts on how to handle.
Another shift is assertiveness. I'm assertive at work, but never have been assertive at home. This includes being assertive with both my W and kids. As I got through my "depression fog", I finally had a light bulb go off on this topic and have realized what that looks like from an outsider. My view of myself was pretty poor coming out of our last D Day in February. I've looked in the mirror and have seen a pretty depressed, weak and lifeless person.
I know this is a lot of beating up on myself, but I am my own worst critic. I'm happier now than I've been in a while because I see these behaviors that I'd like to shift.
Feel free to follow-up with any questions you have on this. I'm traveling for work so might not get back to right away. Have a good one.
Vanilla,
Thought of one more of my deep blue and it's such a common one I would think for LBS and that is how does the WAS just tap out on the M. I just don't get it and I'll never get it.
I've read a lot on resentment and understand how it's such a killer on R or M. It all makes sense and I'm not discounting it and I know how that's played a huge role in where I am in my M and sitch.
I just have a hard time with the giving up aspect of it and that turns into sharing time with our kids, financial struggles, etc.
As I've indicated in my posts, I'm dealing with my contributions to this, namely, 1) depression, 2) being my own person and not "all work and no play makes jack a dull boy", 3) being assertive, 4) dealing with issues and not hiding from them and a few more. Dealing with these things will only benefit me in my relationships going forward with or without W.
Hope everyone has a Hoppy Easter weekend. :-)
The W asked me last night if it was hard being in the same house together right now as we get ready for apartment life. To me, I answered no and she said "it can be". I see guilt running through her strongly.
She was talking to me about our schedule with the kids over the next month as we start our separated shared custody (no papers just doing) and she totally looked like she was losing it. I'm not just talking upset/crying, but she looked like she was so out of control she didn't know what's up and what's down. I simply remained calm, stern and collected in the discussion.
Talked about Easter plans and needing to bring a dessert over to my MIL on Sunday and I told her me and the kids would do something (she has to work today and half day tomorrow and I'm off). She says very snarky, "well aren't you parent of the year?" and I called her on it.
Its a little surreal at times with how alike this is to our last go round 4 years ago. She's hit the "eject" button and is so focused on the move out because she can control it. The dust will settle at some point in the apartment life and we'll see what fork in the road this thing goes. I'm not holding onto hope for us and our M and know that my improvements are for me and my kids.
Talked about Easter plans and needing to bring a dessert over to my MIL on Sunday and I told her me and the kids would do something (she has to work today and half day tomorrow and I'm off). She says very snarky, "well aren't you parent of the year?" and I called her on it.
Tryin,
Good job! I think you have to stay on top of the small transgressions, otherwise, you tend to slip back into the old behavioral patterns.
Doodler,
Thanks. No doubt. I would never have called her on it before so as to not "rock the boat". Part of my nice guy behavior pattern I'm working at overcoming. Feels good and coming more naturally.
I plan on being pretty bad ar$e by the time this is all said and done with or without W.
Happy Easter man.
I'm not holding onto hope for us and our M and know that my improvements are for me and my kids.
^^^Exactly! Way to go Tryin and keep up the good work!
Thanks Sal. Appreciate the support!!
Hey Everybody, I hope you had a Happy Easter weekend. Things went well, but feeling it a bit this morning. I think it's a bit of being vulnerable and trying to ride on top that wave.
W noticing more of my changes and it takes a lot to keep my mouth shut about R/M. The struggle is real, but I know it's a must.
Did some baking this weekend with the kidos. We did some cutout sugar cookies for Easter with decorations galore. It was a lot of fun even though I'd much prefer to cook than bake. Baking is just way too precise for my taste and my pre-type 2 self does not need all that sugar!!!!
Had some more conversations on getting apartment life settled and it's really all just about the W feeling in control. She's a little all over the place sometimes and I'm interested to see what this will be like in a good month or so once apartment life is settled.
Gotta work on snapping back into better mental / emotional focus here this morning. Serenity now. Feeling ok, but just a little weak. The ebb and flow we get to know doing this hard work, right?
"Happy" Monday everyone.
Looking for some help here. Tomorrow is lease signing day as we move to apartment life. W asked me this morning how I was and I said "doing great". I asked how she was and she said she was ok but everything is getting real and it's a lot.
I can see that she's gonna probably lose it at some point as we transition, but I know I can't be that guy to pick up the pieces because she doesn't want me to, bit$h (for Leahsue). My plan is to be firm and gentle, but I can't be the emotional support here, right?
Active listening has been a huge problem for me over the years and so I'm working on this with my IC and with my kids. I want to show improvements here, but I think I need to hold this back because it is her choice to do this and she needs to know she's on her own with it.
I'm grateful I have my next IC appointment in the morning before we sign the lease. It will help me get out my anger, pain before we sign. The anger really stems from the abandonment of us which I know all the LBS's understand.
I've come to find some peace in the fact that she's choosing to do this and has in some way taken the burden of failure from me. What I mean by this is if we end in D I will have no guilt, no remorse for our M ending in D. I know that is her decision to go in her direction and she will reap the benefits/rewards/issues/pains from this decision.
I would never give up on my family and am fighting hard for me and the kids. This path is definitely uphill, thin air, jagged, raining, windy, painful, but rewarding in whatsoever comes ahead.
Feedback would be greatly appreciated. Hope everyone has a great day.
Hey buddy - this might be a great time to validate W's fears etc.
Also, you want her last image of you before going to stay in a lonely apartment, to be a good one. Be supportive and offer to help and validate like there's no tomorrow. Don't offer any fixes, just listen to her.
When my W left the first time, I helped her pack and loaded her car for her. I was DYING on the inside but I didn't let her see me falling apart. I wanted her last memory of me to be one of me helping her reach her goal of wanting to be away from me. When she left, I fell apart. Then I left her completely alone. No calls, texts, nothing. I wanted her to know that her happiness was important to me even though it was going to destroy me.
She told me months later after we had reconciled that her last memory of me haunted her. I was supposed to the devil. She had no ammunition to keep labeling me that way.
Continue to be the great husband and father that you are. And with time, and a little luck, W will peek back over her shoulder and second guess herself.
Thanks Thornton. I guess it's definitely a Validation Marathon without being the crutch approach? It's hard not being an arse because it's what she wants.
She's already tee'd herself up as "the bad guy". That she feels like she's always going to be known as the bad guy in this in separating the family. Guilt running strong.
In some ways, I already see her reacting strangely to my DB'ing. I know this doesn't mean anything in what she'll ultimately do, but it helps keep me going.
I was talking with a friend of mine yesterday and catching him up. I told him that my W really has a "fight or flight" personality and right now she's got me flying on a one-way United flight!
More advice needed and appreciated. It's mainly around plain / direct talk about the situation with the W without pushing into R or M talks. I'll give y'all the short version and then add in details below for my therapy. :-)
I apologized to the W yesterday evening for not being there for her when she voiced her comments that "this is all getting real". I wasn't a jerk, but I did not validate enough and recognized this. Lead to good discussions, but ultimately she said "I just feel so selfish for doing all this." I left this statement alone even though my inner self said "you darn right you are" (not exactly those words, but this board censors everything so....)
Working with my IC today I mentioned this and he recommended that I should have voiced my feelings that I believe she is being selfish here. He suggested this in terms of me working my depression and being more assertive with feelings, thoughts?
Additional venting, background, therapy: I'm ... to a tee and avoid conflict like the plague. It's clearly got me nowhere. I held back from making any statement on her admission of selfishness due to my thinking that interjecting my comments on it would lead to or be perceived as fighting for the M or R. I see now that it's just my feelings on her statement and our sitch in general.
She talked about not being able to be in a marriage like this and I know she means our lack of intimacy. I validated these comments and agreed with her. It took everything within me to not go on some heroic speech about my contributions to our issues, my work on depression, listening, etc. I knew that this is not the time.
She's on her own path and she's isolated herself from her friends and family. I know the other shoe will drop at some point and curious what will happen then. I don't see it dropping for some time because we'll have the initial period of settling on separate time with the kids and the apartment. We've got vacation planned around Memorial Day (she's first half of week and I'm back half of week) with my In-Laws.
Before I keep rambling, my ultimate need here is just what's the boundary on venting my feelings and not getting into trying to work on R or M.
About to leave for lease signing. Hope everyone has a good day.
Well, I'm now a lessee and just signed a one-year lease for a one bedroom apt that I'll share with the W. After work, the W is coming home to load up stuff, I'll take some and my SIL will grab some stuff to bring up.
Kidos are going to help as well so they understand all of what's happening. It's on the 3rd floor, so I'm ready to hear complaints on the first run up the stairs. I'm excited about the stairs for exercise purpose.
Place is really nice and it's such a great location. They've replaced carpet, flooring, lights and slapped some fresh paint on it. Coffee mornings on the balcony might be louder than I'd like as it's situated on a busy street, but that's ok.
Would really appreciate feedback on my questions above. Thanks!!
Tryin,
I am very sorry you had to come back here again. I can only tell you that I have expressed to my wife that filing for divorce is the most selfish thing she will ever do in her life and she got very angry with me.
I think at this point you need to let your wife walk her path and you walk yours and maybe at some point your paths meet again.
Enjoy your new bachelor pad!
Thanks LH. What stinks is she said it, not me, so it would have been some validating that was sweet too.
I'd put bachelor pad in quotes. The W and I are sharing so when we're not at the house with the kidos we're at the apartment. The beer can stack will have to be cleaned up and laundry washed. :-)
Hang in there, Tryin. I'm sure you are trying to come to grips with the upcoming changes.
I think you have been handling yourself very well.
Thanks Thornton. I had been doing well, but lost it a bit tonight during our move. I guess she just hit a big red button on me and I vented.
My SIL came to help move with my W and two kids. Once we got everything up, the kids wanted to check out the pool at the apartment and it was just me and the W. W said something about the kids dealing with the changes in our M and I asked her to define what she meant by "changes in our marriage".
I remained fairly calm during all this, but I was just fed up with a phrase like "changes in our marriage" when she's just a walking away. That's not changes in OUR M, that's just her decision. It sparked a fuse.
I honestly don't feel bad about it because I remained calm and with respect. I acknowledged and validated her feelings, but I couldn't bottle this up.
Hoping tomorrow morning brings a little clarity for me. The good news is I know my path is not different. It's me and the munchkins. We're trying to figure out where we want to go on vacation this summer for just the three of us.
Waking up to a mixed bag of emotions. I guess I've got a little clarity because I'm overwhelmed with grief that the path right now is clear to D. I'm not upset as much about me and the W, but mainly for the kids and our family unit.
I'm still strong in knowing what I've got to do to fight my depression, improve my listening skills, fight my NGS, etc. Enjoying the kids helps with all of this and my relationship with them has been better than ever, so I will not take that for granted.
Ramblings of an LBS:
1) Why not work at it? D is not a solution without significant consequences.
2) We've both acknowledged our contributions here, apologized and asked forgiveness. No rush to reconcile or work on our M. I'm excited about our separation to grant peace, space, etc. to heal. Just let that be what it is, but no decisions, right?
3) I've mentioned before we call our sitch/family the "anomaly". It's because we're extremely respectful to each other, our kids, our family. To me, there is no greater sign that this can happen than there is FAR too much good than bad in our M. Yes, I know that this is our family life and not just our R as H and W, but WAY more positives than negatives.
Feel like this is going to be a rough weekend, but we all know these come up. To all the LBS's on the board, I wish you all the best. This road is a painful one, but what doesn't kill us makes us stronger.
Hang in there, tryin! I wish there were words to help you feel better. Sometimes we just have to lean into it and keep bracing against it until it passes. I'm so sorry.
Chatted for a while with my SIL and she brought up how my W is just not herself right now (of course I've known this). Just a totally different look in her eyes and it's really freaky.
She's really in her own world right now. I'm beginning to suspect an old EA of hers. It has never been a PA, but it has been a crutch for her. We discussed this relationship in our MC last summer and she rationalized away on the significance of it. It was her outlet to intimacy since we struggled at it.
She stopped communication with him and we continued therapy for a few months. Why did I just bring up the EA? I know I'm not supposed to but I was curious who her network was after our chat last night. Looked up our phone bill and it was the usual two (young co-worker and friend who's ready to bolt from her husband too). Saw one more phone number from texting and it looked familiar and it was the EA.
Of course I only know what I know from our therapy sessions and my discussions with my W, but I honestly believe her that there's no PA here. It's more about daily comfort/intimacy that I couldn't provide her (and my W told me that his W couldn't provide him). Am I in Wayward Wife Land now?
If so, I'm assuming I call this out. My W talks about respecting each other through this process and it makes my blood boil knowing she's chatting again. I'm not flaking out on my responsibilities here, work to do, etc. Far from that. I also know this is not really on the OM, but on my W and her lack of respect for our M and R.
Help would be greatly appreciated. Will be seeing her tomorrow when we switch out for the week.
Woke up this morning feeling like I need to confront W. My intent is doing a 180 by being vocal about the disrespect shown through the EA. I've talked about my depression issues and NGS and being assertive is something I've never done.
I do not plan on making this a hostile confrontation, far from it. Simply state my feelings on this and also acknowledging my contributions to the lack of intimacy between us.
It's weird because I'm feeling this is less about saving our M and more about saving myself. I'm feeling good about that, but also a little nervous and selfish about it at the same time.
This process really challenges your thoughts on everything. I've always thought about our M as a fairytale because, and you'll laugh, we met and two weeks later were engaged and now have been married for 16 years with two beautiful kids. I've now come to understand there's no fairytale, no hollywood, $hits real and it's hard work.
My parent's method of dealing with issues was burying them or ignoring them and that's what I learned growing up. I see now how harmful that can be and am working on that with my IC.
I know we all have our different situations and have to do what works depending upon where we're at. Anyone have feedback or insight into this? I'm really looking in the mirror here and feel like it is a must to demonstrate the man who I'm becoming.
Feedback would be greatly appreciated!!!
What is your goal? Will confronting W bring you closer to your goal?
Thornton - I honestly think it would help again more personally than for the M or R, but it's not going to be about pursuing the R but calling out the EA. I've never been one to confront and it's my way of a 180.
My goal is driven by continuing my improvements to self and overcoming my NGS by being assertive is one of my main goals. This confrontation fits this bill.
I'm realizing now the lack of respect shown by my W with the EA to me. It's time to stand up for me in this regardless of the overall outcome in our M. That is so up in the air regardless.
The risk I have of not calling this out right now is regretting not having done so. It's about not having regrets in this. As I said earlier, my eyes are opening a bit and I'm seeing where my lack of backbone before was added fuel to her fire against intimacy with me.
That's where I'm at now however, if, when I pull this off is yet to be seen but I'll be back to post.
Vanilla... thought a lot about what you said earlier on my thread and now I think I'm getting to the demons you were asking about... I just didn't recognize them yet.
Sweetheart
It's ok you know it will unfold in time.
Part of the process
V
Feeling good this morning after yesterday's big chat. Called her out on contact with EA and she said "honestly, there's nothing there" to which I replied "this isn't about him, but about how much disrespect you've shown me as your H in doing it." I owned up to my lack of being there and present due to my depression immediately after this.
Lots of other stuff discussed and then we get to the crux of Round 2 and it is the fact that we're here again. She cannot see doing this again to only lose ourselves again. I told her that I understand that completely and just reminder her one important difference between this time and 4 years ago and that is my awareness of my depression.
I know there's no consoling at this time and that she just needs to get rid of all the negative emotions and go through her process. Will any of this change her mind about D? I don't know and honestly I've gotten to the point of where it doesn't matter. Serenity leaves me to understand that it is her decision or as she says "I have to be the bad guy".
Slept for the first night in the apartment and our furniture is not in yet, so it's air mattress night and the darn thing has a leak. Par for this course, I guess. Have some travel for work tomorrow / Wed, so glad to be on a real bed even if its a hotel.
So my friends, I'm definitely now in solo DB-mode for real here. I know I have been, but this weekend really got out all that I had to say. You know, the stuff that would not let you sleep at night or have regrets on not having said. I know none of our words will make or change the path they're on and that's fine, but it was important for me in my journey in becoming who I want to be.
Hope everyone has a good Monday because we all know Monday $ucks.
Tryin,
Sounds like you have a great attitude towards the separation!
Of course they don't want to be labeled the "bad guy".
There are consequences to all actions and some of them are really bad. Just how it is!
Stay strong!
Thanks LH. With this not being my first rodeo here, I've surprised myself how quickly I've been able to get a hold of things. Still have my ups and downs, but we all do.
My cousin sent me a quote yesterday that I liked and she's been through her share of M issues too. The quote was "never let fear decide your fate".
I think of this as a way to say own your own life in every which way you can. I'll just keep trying... :-)