My first thread, and the first leg of my DB journey is over. Read about my background
by clicking here.
Now begins another experience I never imagined -
separating from my wife.
On 2/17/17, we had a session with our marriage counselor. During this session, my wife said she just doesn't see any way to fix things. I remained calm, collected, and practiced DB techniques. Unfortunatly, the result was that we are going to find a mediator to walk us through a formal separation agreement. I told her to give me a week to process that info and i'd get back to her to talk about next steps.
Since that session, we haven't communicated much other than logistics regarding our kids. I was probably a little rude in some of my texts, but not too bad. I had a great session with my DB Coach, Chuck, who gave me some pointers.
I finally met with the wife yesterday, 2/26/17, to talk through the next steps.
Per my coaching session, my goal was to change her perspective of me - to say and do things she wouldn't expect. I think it worked, kinda.
When i got to the house, her wall was up, and she made a slightly rude / passive aggressive comment. I decided to let it go and not engage. Once our kids were out of the room, i asked her to join me on the couch to talk.
I started by confirming that the outcome from our therapy was that she wanted to find a mediator for separation. She agreed that was the next step. I then setup a DB opportunity and asked "Is there any room for compromise or other options?" She said no, to which i responded "Is that how you felt during our marriage when I wouldn't leave room for your opinion? If so, I feel your pain." I let that soak in, and she nodded her head that she felt that way. We sat in silent for several minutes after this.
This was one of her issues that made her "fall out of love" - she felt it was always my way is the only way. So, this is a 180 technique to turn it on her. She wouldn't look at me, and instead looked at the ground and had a super sad look on her face.
I then did another 180 on her and said, "okay. then i want to make this as easy as possible on you and the kids. as such, i researched a few mediators in the area that i'd like you to look into" and i handed her contact info for them. This caught her off guard - i think she was expecting pushback or something different.
Her wall fell down, almost instantly. I then said that since i want this to be smooth, I went ahead and documented our average monthly spending so she can start getting a good idea of her budget, since i had traditionally taken care of finances. I handed her a sheet with the details and some graphs about our spending. This further took her off guard and let her open up even more. We talked about her finding an apartment and I offered to do whatever she needed from me to help (yet another 180, since she expected me to push back or be mean about it).
While i've been doing the LRT technique and completely backing off for over 3 weeks, my DB coach wanted me to try some 180s. I did. I think it worked.After that, we chatted about the kids and other random stuff. She even laughed at one point, which was the first time i've made her laugh in 4-5 months. I then hung out with the kids for a few minutes and left the apartment.
Since yesterday, her texts to me about the kids/logistics have been much more friendly. That's at least a positive sign that we aren't going to go through our lives hating each other.
Now, its up to her to look at the mediators and get back to me on next steps. She's going to look at apartments this weekend.
In this thread i'll try to focus on what its like to work through the separation, the mediator, and the separation agreement. I'm not looking forward to this, but i'm hopeful it will present some Divorce Busting opportunities that I can take advantage of.
Thanks all for your support!! And thanks to my DB coach, Chuck, for the great guidance.
I hear Chuck is a great DB coach KevinIn, I am glad you feel good about the advice he gave you! It is interesting about how your 180 affected her so quickly.
I hope the mediation goes will, maybe the separation will make her miss you and see what she will be missing out on, who knows....
I have read some of your posts before but can't remember, is she still in a PA???
Take care of you and your kiddos Kevin!!!
I have read some of your posts before but can't remember, is she still in a PA?
I have no clue. I have restrained from any talks except about the kids. And i am doing zero snooping. I assume it is ongoing, but i really dont know.
And i am doing zero snooping
Good for you. At this point, its irrelevant whether she is or isn't. You are doing good for yourself and your kids, and that, sir, is the single most important thing.
Its definitely irrelevant. It wasnt healthy for me to think about it. From a legal perspective, my L has everything she needs if it should ever go down that path.
Just need to focus on me, my kids (who are starting to show some issues with everything), and taking advantage of DBing opportunities.
Thanks all for your support!! And thanks to my DB coach, Chuck, for the great guidance.
Hello KevinIn,
Thank you so much for the wonderful words regarding your DB Coach, Chuck. I'm very happy to hear that his guidance has been helpful.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
As i mentioned in yesterday's post, on sunday i had the first pleasant conversation with wife since sometime in December. Now its stuck in my mind and i have to tell myself to back off. Don’t communicate. She hasn't changed yet. It was a one time thing (maybe first of many).
Bottom line: dont screw it up and dont read into it. Keep LRTing. Keep DBing.
Will power and patience.
Every Wednesday morning for the past month, the Wife comes to the house to pick up the kids to take to school. I try to keep the conversation to a minimum and about the kids or logistics. Today was no different.
However, I needed to figure out a logistical problem with where i was staying tonight and I also wanted to "test the water" just a little to see if Sunday's positive conversation had any actual impact.
Since I need to be by our house very early tomorrow morning, I asked if I could just stay at the house with her tonight, and i'd be in the guest bedroom. She said "no. I don't want to confuse the kids."
This response hurt. It reinforced that she is not even considering trying to fix things. her heels are dug in. She is forcing the full separation and there is not even a chance of her reconsidering it at this moment.
I then said i can come home after the kids are asleep, and she gave me a look that implied - no. I then said i'd get back to her later in the day with what i'm going to do. We then got the kids and all left the house.
I feel that my response is a Divorce Busting opportunity for a 180. But, i need to execute it properly.
What she probably expects me to say: "I'd really like to stay at home tonight to make it easy on myself tomorrow morning."
A possible 180 response: Something about agreeing that it would be bad to confuse the kids, so i'll stay away and make it work.
Rationale: One of her complaints in our relationship was that I didn't value her thoughts - it was 'my way is the only way.' So, i'm trying to show that i do value her thoughts, which does take her by surprise. But, i also don't want to be a doormat that does whatever she says. Therefore, my response needs to be deeper than just "okay, whatever you say." By agreeing with her reasoning for me not being there, i will possibly surprise her.
What are everyone's thoughts? Let me know if you can think of a good 180 in this conversation.
KevinIn,
Where are you living now? Why did you leave the house? Is the 1 month break over and are you moving back in? How old are you and your wife? How old are the kids?
To my ears, it sounds like pleading. Pleading is not okay. She needs to see a strong, confident male who is not going to ask her to let him spend the night.
Rationale: One of her complaints in our relationship was that I didn't value her thoughts - it was 'my way is the only way.' So, i'm trying to show that i do value her thoughts, which does take her by surprise. But, i also don't want to be a doormat that does whatever she says. Therefore, my response needs to be deeper than just "okay, whatever you say." By agreeing with her reasoning for me not being there, i will possibly surprise her.
Kevin, you asked
twice if you could spend the night! Are you saying that you showed value for her thoughts b/c you agreed to not to stay there? That's not the way it appears in your post, and it is not the way to demonstrate value of her thoughts. It made you appear pushy. You had little choice about not staying.
I feel that my response is a Divorce Busting opportunity for a 180. But, i need to execute it properly.
There was nothing to indicate that she had changed her mindset. So, I suggest you don't try anymore "testing the waters" for a long time.
Some things you should have done a long time ago, when she still
wanted the M to work......will not be received well now. She has changed. She wants out of the M. Not all, but
some things you may be itching to show her, will need to be saved until she wants back into the M again.
I'm sure that all this information you are learning can become rather confusing when you try to execute it. Don't give up. It's a lot to process when a person is dealing with what you're facing.
Where are you living now? Why did you leave the house? Is the 1 month break over and are you moving back in? How old are you and your wife? How old are the kids?
Where are you living now? We are taking turns at our house with the kids. I go to a friends or a hotel. She goes to her parents (allegedly).
Why did you leave the house? It was part of the break and has continued so the kids dont have to change locations, but get to spend time with both parents at home.
Is the 1 month break over and are you moving back in? Break is over. It didnt work. She wants separation. We are continuing living situation until she finds an apartment to move into. I will stay at our place.
How old are you and your wife? Me - 39. Her - 36.
How old are the kids? 2 and 6
Thanks Sandi. Great insight. You are correct that i shouldn't test the water for a very very long time.
It's good that you are staying in the house. Continue to make positive changes. This is going to be a long process.
Then it happened last Sunday, when I threw her for a loop by supporting her decision to move out, see a mediator, and start the separation process. It was a DB 180 technique suggested by my DB coach, and it worked. Since then, she has been somewhat friendly to me.
Kevin -
I dont think she has softened. My guess is that she can see the proverbial light at the end of the tunnel. Or shes being friendly in order to better get what she wants.
I would highly recommend you reset your focus back on you. Continue to consider how to best apply your 180s to meet your goals.
I dont think she has softened. My guess is that she can see the proverbial light at the end of the tunnel. Or shes being friendly in order to better get what she wants.
Now that I've had a few days to process the interaction, plus has two more brief kid exchanges, i completely agree that she sees the light at the end of the tunnel and feels relieved that I'm not going to stand in her way. She's just excited to live happily ever after with OM.
I dont think she has softened. My guess is that she can see the proverbial light at the end of the tunnel. Or shes being friendly in order to better get what she wants.
Now that I've had a few days to process the interaction, plus has two more brief kid exchanges, i completely agree that she sees the light at the end of the tunnel and feels relieved that I'm not going to stand in her way. She's just excited to live happily ever after with OM.
Maybe. That's how she may feel today. And maybe even next month. Or even six months from now. She may never change her mind. BUT...she might, and we all know it's not going to happen over night. Hang in there man!
It is very common to see the WW respond this way. The hurting and hoping H mistakes her sense of relief as being a sign of her softening.
I wish I had the skills to explain how the WW is on a completely different page from him. She might as well be on another planet. When the bomb drop occurs, it is usually her announcement that she is unhappy, doesn't feel in love with him, starts blaming him for this & that, yada-yada......but in truth, she has long had disrespectful feelings toward him.....and is emotionally done (whether she actually says those words or not). It wakes up the H and he begins trying to correct the things he remembers her complaining about. Whether she gives him a laundry list of complaints at the BD or not.......it is not the true root problem that currently exists. That's why the LBH does not see the desired results when he is trying to fix the laundry list. The reason behind her complaints may be legitimate and could have played a part in the breakdown of relationship.......but eventually, she allowed her feelings of disrespect and resentment to take over and lead her into rebellion against her H and their M.
If she was willing to work with him to save their M......then he would see positive results. The current issue is her waywardness. The wayward does not want it....and is not willing to work to get it. IMHO, that is just one of things that separate the wayward from the WAW. The wayward has a hidden agenda. The wayward is cold, selfish, and mean....in spite of what her H tries to do to please her.
IMHO, it works better for the LBH to let her go.....b/c she is going with or without his emotions tied around her. That's not to say they won't ever be together again, but certain things usually have to take place in order for it to occur.
If she goes her separate way, and she's in an affair or living like GGW..... or whatever, he needs to spend that time working on himself and preparing for better things to come. If she's in his future, then he will be better prepared for her. If she's not in his future, he will be better prepared for something else. This is his time to fix himself and become the man he likes. He needs to be a friend to himself and do things he enjoys that maybe he hasn't done since marriage. He needs to use this time to grow! But he needs to do it independently from his WW, and stop making everything about her.
So, she will be in her fantasy world, until it begins to crumble and she experiences consequences that come from her decision to tear apart her family. In the meantime, she still gets glimpses of her LBH, or hear tidbits from others saying how good he look, or how he seems to be enjoying his life, or whatever. She may try to temp check or manipulate him in other ways, but she discovers he has changed and no longer succumbs to her demands or complaints. He no longer is interested in her games, who she is seeing, or what she does (this is from her view). She begins to feel she has really lost him. She sees a confident man who seems in control of his personal life......and she sees some things in him that may remind her of that guy she loved & married.
In time, the affair usually ends and she will either turn to OM2 b/c she doesn't want to give up that type of lifestyle, or she will turn to her the LBH she dumped. That is the time he needs to play hard to get, so to speak. He doesn't need to be her backup plan. And, he needs to use a lot of caution, b/c she should have to work to get him back again. Not through manipulation and playing games, but really doing whatever is necessary to be in marriage relationship with him. Her apologizing and having remorse for the pain she has caused, is a good place to start, but it's not enough. She still has to do something about her wayward feelings in her heart, otherwise, the M will be right back in the same shape again.
Instead of sweeping things under the rug, acting like nothing has happened......they need to attend therapy for couples healing from infidelity, and take reconciliation slowly. They should not jump right back into living together before the problems are resolved. And even after they move back together, they may need to follow a long term program that helps couples who are trying to recover and have a better MR.
The LBH was working hard on himself during the time she was gone. Her hard work begins on herself once she faces her reality and takes ownership for the pain and destruction she has caused. If she really does it, then her heart is more likely to soften enough to feel remorse. Her remorse is very important. Without her taking responsibility for her behavior, the affair, etc., she will not make the changes and do the hard work ahead of her....and she'll continue to blame her H. If they make the decision to be a couple again.....then their hard work begins on their relationship. This time around, the H will be wiser and better prepared.
Thanks for posting this Sandi. It definitely resonates with my situation. My mind has been all over the map this week, trying to figure out how to move forward and completely detach while also being the best dad in the world (along with Jeep, Sal, and the many others on here).
Kevin -
I dont think she has softened. My guess is that she can see the proverbial light at the end of the tunnel. Or shes being friendly in order to better get what she wants.
I would highly recommend you reset your focus back on you. Continue to consider how to best apply your 180s to meet your goals.
I strongly agree with this! I wouldn't look any further into it than this at this time. You are doing quite well man. Keep up the good work.
I strongly agree with this! I wouldn't look any further into it than this at this time. You are doing quite well man. Keep up the good work.
Thanks Laowai! I'm trying. Its hard, but i'm trying.
What sandi2 posted to you, is pure gold. You are on the right path from what I gather. It does take time, patience and effort.
Just let my kids speak to their mom on the phone. She was overly happy and i'm almost certain she was with OM. Listening to her made me super mad (yes, i still have a lot of work to detach).
Instead of texting her what I want to say, i'm posting it here as an outlet.
Dear wife - F you! Your kids deserve better than you.
Doesn't feel as good as actually texting it to her, but i'm happy i wrote it somewhere.
Brotherman, I've wanted to tell my ex the same thing.
I may have been stupid, but according to my lawyer, I could have won full custody. Instead, I went for a more joint because the kids love their mom an: I couldn't
that to them. Maybe I made a mistake. Who knows.
I could have won full custody. Instead, I went for a more joint because the kids love their mom an: I couldn't
that to them. Maybe I made a mistake. Who knows.
Kids need both parents to have an influence in their lives. So, as much as she may have treated you poorly, you probably did the right thing for the sake of the kids. Don't have regrets about it.
But also, F these WAWs.
Just got an email from the wife about our "next steps" - the first relationship-related communication in 1 week.
The email amuses me because its obvious that her dad helped her write it. I've known him for nearly 11 years and I know his writing style.
Why's this amusing? One of the reasons she is a WAW is that she felt I was too controlling and that she didn't have a voice in our marriage (whether this is true or not is a different topic). Now, she's 'free from me' and doesn't even give her own voice - its her dads. If she wants to prove to herself that she can be a strong, single mom, then she shouldn't rely on her parents so much. I can't blame them for helping though, since they are doing whatever they can to make their child happy.
Hey KevinIn,
Man, I think our ex's are paddling in the same boat. Hearing so much that is similar between the two. It's obvious the ex-SIL is pulling her strings as one of the things that she said during Friday's court was word-for-word what the SIL had said at one time. Ugh.
Hang in there, my friend, you are owning your road.
For several days in a row, i've noticed my mind seems to be getting kinda back to normal. The heavy fog seems to going away. I'm not constantly thinking about my wife/marriage/relationship/family. I'm not sad. I've even been able to focus a little more at work.
I'm not sure the reason for it, and i'm not sure I necessarily need to know.
It could be because i've been at home, in my own bed, and with my kids for several days in a row. But, it could be that i'm turning a corner on this whole thing. Or something else completely.
I hope it means i'm detaching more and moving on with my life.
KevinIn,
Own your road, my friend. It's becoming more clear now. It'll get better but there will be times when you think WTF is going on...
Routines have a big thing to do with it, even when we don't realize it. You are becoming more comfortable in things, which is seemingly becoming more detached, too.
You are getting there, my friend.
You are getting there, my friend.
Yep, until she moves out and then i feel it will all be wrecked again. But, maybe i'll be in a different place and won't be fazed by it.
For me, it was a wreck. But things adjusted.
Glad you are detaching a little KevinIn.....I continue to have waves of not thinking about my W and then thinking about her...waves of sadness and not sadness but they get further and further between. I was a wreck as well when she moved out but I also have adjusted. Hang in there!
I was a wreck as well when she moved out but I also have adjusted.
I'm hoping to take a trip starting the day her stuff is out and i don’t have the kids. I'm thinking somewhere tropical.
Trips can work wonders. I need one, too.
Trips can work wonders. I need one, too.
Maybe I'll take OM's wife. That would be a 180 for sure. Haha.
Maybe I'll take OM's wife. That would be a 180 for sure. Haha.
Bahahahaha. I may or may not have gotten quite drunk with the OM's wife in my case.
I may or may not have gotten quite drunk with the OM's wife in my case.
Awesome! I'm holding off any actual in-person contact with OM's wife. Maybe one day if both our situations end in the big D.
I may or may not have gotten quite drunk with the OM's wife in my case.
Awesome! I'm holding off any actual in-person contact with OM's wife. Maybe one day if both our situations end in the big D.
She is one of the most fun ladies I've been around in quite some time. We met up to trade some stuff relating to the affair for our lawyers and all. Actually, it was her idea to meet and talk. We've become pretty good friends now and meet for coffee or a drink every now and then. Want to hear something funny? She and my ex sort of favor each other - both mostly Italian, dark hair, dark eyes, olive skin and very attractive. Geesh.
Im still in a good mood on my way home from work. Seems that i made it two days at work feeling kinda normal. Its about time.
Hopefully i can make it the rest of the night.
High fives for detaching.
Hi fives indeed! What is going on during the times you are detaching? Do you think you can continue to do more of what works?
Hi fives indeed! What is going on during the times you are detaching? Do you think you can continue to do more of what works?
I honestly dont know what im doing to make it easier. Maybe just the complete separation from her. Possibly just being around ny kids puts me in a genuinely good mood when i forget about the other stuff. Time?
From a religious perspective, theres been some applicable sermons lately about forgiveness, patience, etc. that im trying to take to heart.
Hi Kevin. Just wanted to say thank you for some of your kind words to me.
I've tried to catch up on your situation. I don't have anything burning to say other than that I'm in your corner.
You're doing so many things right. Detaching the best you can, GALing, taking care of your children when they're with you, and soldiering on.
It's early on and survival is success. Getting through this tough period, avoiding creating more damage. I'm glad you have a DB coach to help you, and I'm glad to see you posting so actively.
Next time you post feel free to share a little more about yourself. Not just marital breakdown stuff, but just what you're like, what your hobbies and interests are, what type of job you do. This isn't DB related, I'd just like to get to know you a little bit.
Anything on your mind tonight DB wise or just toasting to making it through another day?
Take care!
Maybe just the complete separation from her. Possibly just being around ny kids puts me in a genuinely good mood when i forget about the other stuff. Time?
That's most likely it. If the temptation isn't there, then it is much easier. My kids do the same for me, my friend, and they keep me on my toes.
You'll find that as time passes, things get easier. Oh sure, its like the tide and waves and will come back to haunt you on its own - and yes, there will be a rogue wave or two, as witnessed in my slippage yesterday.
You got this and you are owning your road, my friend.
It could be because i've been at home, in my own bed, and with my kids for several days in a row. But, it could be that i'm turning a corner on this whole thing. Or something else completely.
I found my answer - being at my home with my kids. For the next 6 nights, i'll be away and when I realized that this, it took away some of the joy i had the past few days. Not that i'm now sad and depressed, but i'm not as happy as I was the past few mornings.
Today's lack of joy could also be that i'm tired, since i stayed up a little too late packing and then my toddler woke me up a few times last night.
I found my answer - being at my home with my kids
There you go. The best answer there could possibly be!
A new topic for today - meeting with Wife tonight to discuss her moving out.
She wants to talk about moving into a condo we own, since the current tenant's lease is up.
I'm trying to think through what she expects me to say so I can respond appropriately. Hopefully i can have some DB 180 opportunities.
It does really make me mad that she is soooo intent on moving out, separating, and ending our marriage. There is zero thought that she wants to try to work on our marriage. I suspect this is because OM is still in the picture and they are planning their happily ever after.
She claims she wants to make this easy on the kids. If that's the case, just try to save the marriage. Now i'm just angry thinking about it.
Kevin,
Does OM have kids? If so, how many?
Personally, I would not agree to Condo!
Kevin,
Does OM have kids? If so, how many?
Personally, I would not agree to Condo!
Yes, OM has 2 kids (6 and 8). His wife said they are not handling this well.
The condo actually makes some sense, because i dont want to sell it until we have to (in a year if she goes through with a divorce). And we will need a new tenant anyway. She would pay for it out of her own money, since we are separating all finances.
KevinIn,
It does really make me mad that she is soooo intent on moving out, separating, and ending our marriage. There is zero thought that she wants to try to work on our marriage. I suspect this is because OM is still in the picture and they are planning their happily ever after.
I know the feeling. Once they are done, they are done. Nothing we can say or do to make them change their minds - if they come around, they will on their own time. I wouldn't even think about mind-reading with her...she'll let you know otherwise. If the OM is in the picture, would you want her back then?
She claims she wants to make this easy on the kids. If that's the case, just try to save the marriage. Now i'm just angry thinking about it.
Mine said the same thing...even went far enough to say it was better for the kids. Ugh.
Jeep - they clearly read from the same script. Mine has said "i'm a better mom when you are not around."
Jeep - they clearly read from the same script. Mine has said "i'm a better mom when you are not around."
Yep. She even goes further to say that they are better behaved when they aren't skyping with me!
Mine said the same thing...even went far enough to say it was better for the kids. Ugh.
Mine told me that she thought the kids seem happier now than they ever have and asked me if I agreed....really??
I suspect this is because OM is still in the picture and they are planning their happily ever after.
I keep being told that my W's new relationship with the OM2 is not going to last and she will still be unhappy. That someday she will finally realize that I wasn't the source of her unhappiness. However, this doesn't make me feel better because of the fact that she is ruining our M right now and doesn't realize that things can be better. Some people do move on and become better partners after an A, but not too many come back after D.
Yep. She even goes further to say that they are better behaved when they aren't skyping with me!
That's messed up. But, it all is.
I need to get my sh!t under control today. I'm not sure where the calm, collected, happy KevinIn went. He was here the last 2 days.
I need to get my sh!t under control today. I'm not sure where the calm, collected, happy KevinIn went. He was here the last 2 days
Man, I know the feeling. Running around like a chicken with its head chopped off. This has been a much better day after lunch so far.
I need to get my sh!t under control today. I'm not sure where the calm, collected, happy KevinIn went. He was here the last 2 days.
OPS.....
Other Peoples Schidt....
Try to stay focused on your own stuff....
Be thankful for what's good, leave the bad to sort itself out...
You guys have been posting about memories, and whos fault this is. Who is being wronged. She did what ? With who ?
And while that is good, it can also dig up the negative emotions toward what you are dealing with...
You feel bad for Jeep, he feels bad for Gump, Gump feels bad for you....
You wanna protect them all, and it show the closeness on the boards...
Try and stay focused on you when it comes to situations....
It's harder than it sounds...been there...
I would often ask myself...
Am I reacting to my stuff, or just from something that I read, that a brother is going through ???
See if that changes things a bit....
Pretty simple 180.
Suppose you felt the D was best for the family, the children, you, and her. What would be the best road forward for all involved? Whatever the answer is, just go for that.
Notice I didn't ask what was best for just HER. I'm not suggesting you roll over and pave her a golden brick road to live happily ever after with OM. I'm not suggesting you give her everything she wants in the settlement. Not at all. You can't buy her affection back, and will only lose her respect.
But, if you pretend that YOU were the one wanting the D, what would you be prepared to offer? What would make the most sense for the family?
Let that guide you. If the condo makes sense, then go for it.
I understand you don't want the D. I understand you are still hoping she changes her mind. I understand you don't like taking committal steps like selling a property, moving, or finalizing the D.
But this will happen with or without your consent. You can't stop it. All you can do is kick and scream which pours fuel on the fire. So while you don't have to do the work for her in terms of packing, finding the lawyer, etc, I would strongly recommend going with it as if you were totally on board.
If I were you my goal tonight would be for her to walk away with the feeling that something snapped and you got fed up with her crap, have no interest in being with a cheating vow breaker, and are totally on board doing anything to facilitate the necessary steps to remove her from your life as a spouse. That you will be fair, solid, respectful, and make sure the children will feel loved and safe from both parents, but that the sooner she remarries OM the sooner she'll be his problem and not yours. You don't have to feel that way, you don't have to try to send that message...but that's the mindset that should guide your steps.
That's a 180. Good luck.
If I were you my goal tonight would be for her to walk away with the feeling that something snapped and you got fed up with her crap, have no interest in being with a cheating vow breaker, and are totally on board doing anything to facilitate the necessary steps to remove her from your life as a spouse. That you will be fair, solid, respectful, and make sure the children will feel loved and safe from both parents, but that the sooner she remarries OM the sooner she'll be his problem and not yours. You don't have to feel that way, you don't have to try to send that message...but that's the mindset that should guide your steps.
OK, this isn't quite the right mood. Better would be that you realized that you two can't stay married and that you two aren't compatible. Replace my feelings towards cheating spouses with their rationalization on why they are acting like they are. You can still feel the way you do, just make sure not to make her feel judged or criticized. That's non-validation. You can validate without agreeing, so that means neither approval or criticism. Just moving forward and getting this put to bed. Neutral. Stay neutral emotionally. I hope that goes without saying, but wanted to catch myself there.
If I were you my goal tonight would be for her to walk away with the feeling that something snapped and you got fed up with her crap, have no interest in being with a cheating vow breaker, and are totally on board doing anything to facilitate the necessary steps to remove her from your life as a spouse. That you will be fair, solid, respectful, and make sure the children will feel loved and safe from both parents, but that the sooner she remarries OM the sooner she'll be his problem and not yours. You don't have to feel that way, you don't have to try to send that message...but that's the mindset that should guide your steps.
OK, this isn't quite the right mood. Better would be that you realized that you two can't stay married and that you two aren't compatible. Replace my feelings towards cheating spouses with their rationalization on why they are acting like they are. You can still feel the way you do, just make sure not to make her feel judged or criticized. That's non-validation. You can validate without agreeing, so that means neither approval or criticism. Just moving forward and getting this put to bed. Neutral. Stay neutral emotionally. I hope that goes without saying, but wanted to catch myself there.
This is pretty much what im planning. My goal is to support a smooth transition for the kids, and thats what I'll say. This will show i know we arent staying married and that the kids are my priority.
Since she is "calling the meeting" i'm essentially just going to ask for her proposals. The ones i agree with, I'll say i agree. Others I'll say i need to think about and i will get back to her.
So we just met to talk about her moving into the rental property we own. She started with her wall up and there was some anger. It eventually went away and we had a cordial conversation. She's sooo adament about leaving this marriage. We even had a little sweet talk about the kids. Overall, it was not a negative conversation. Then i left.
She 100% has issues that need resolved. She is not the same person i loved for 10 years. That person is lost. I wouldnt want to reconcile with this person. Unhappy. Slightly mean. Nothing i want.
So we just met to talk about her moving into the rental property we own. She started with her wall up and there was some anger. It eventually went away and we had a cordial conversation. She's sooo adament about leaving this marriage. We even had a little sweet talk about the kids. Overall, it was not a negative conversation. Then i left.
She 100% has issues that need resolved. She is not the same person i loved for 10 years. That person is lost. I wouldnt want to reconcile with this person. Unhappy. Slightly mean. Nothing i want.
Mine was the exact same way - cordial conversation became that way because I wasn't fighting her anymore and maybe to her it seemed I was validating the ending of the marriage. Who knows.
I can relate. You know, sometimes it isn't the people who change but their mask that falls off...
I can relate. You know, sometimes it isn't the people who change but their mask that falls off...
With mine, i think she kept refusing to think through important things in life (e.g. religion, parenting style, etc.) and addressing other things (e.g. when she disagreed with me but wouldnt talk about it), and she assummed they would all work themselves out without her putting in the effort. The pressure built up and she eventually snapped. This changed her.
I can see your point too - maybe she always has been a slightly depressed and unhappy person who doesnt want to take responsibility.
Either way, i dont see her changing into someone i want to be with anymore. Maybe that will change, but she has a lot of work to do first.
Either way, i dont see her changing into someone i want to be with anymore. Maybe that will change, but she has a lot of work to do first.
Same here. She won't seek help even after I asked...her response was "I have the paperwork to say I'm OK." Mind you, the military docs want people back ASAP.
The way she was during our conversation last night will definitely make it easy for me to keep detaching.
The way she was during our conversation last night will definitely make it easy for me to keep detaching.
Yep. Mine now - and for the past year or so - is friendly only when things go her way in any form, whether it be seemingly agreeing that we are better off divorced (none of which I did, but in her mind I am) or just not talking about things. However, she isn't the person I dated and married. I've come to realize that now. Her loss...not mine.
So today she emailed our tenant to move out. He's not happy about that. She's successfully making more and more people not like her. At least she has OM.
With mine, i think she kept refusing to think through important things in life (e.g. religion, parenting style, etc.) and addressing other things (e.g. when she disagreed with me but wouldnt talk about it), and she assummed they would all work themselves out without her putting in the effort. The pressure built up and she eventually snapped. This changed her.
I don't understand. What do you mean?
With mine, i think she kept refusing to think through important things in life (e.g. religion, parenting style, etc.) and addressing other things (e.g. when she disagreed with me but wouldnt talk about it), and she assummed they would all work themselves out without her putting in the effort. The pressure built up and she eventually snapped. This changed her.
I don't understand. What do you mean?
Just that the pressure from how she was approaching life was too much, so she snapped.
Just that the pressure from how she was approaching life was too much, so she snapped.
Maybe it pulled her mask off?
Venting:
Went out with a coworker last night who is separating from her 8 year relationship and had a great time. Misery loves company.
Then this morning when i said hi to my kids on the phone, my wife took the phone and was being an angry b!tćh to me because i talked to the tenant in our condo without her input. She's mad that im doing things without her input.
For the most part, i restrained from saying what i really wanted to say, but i did slip up slightly and say "theres been a lot of decisions behind my back lately."
Now im in a bad mood. Does she not understand that if she wasnt leaving and that she tried working on our relationship that we would have talked through all communications with the tenant? That we would talk through everything? She created this mess, not me. Seems like anything i say or do is wrong in her eyes. Im starting to relate to the people on this forum who just give up and file themselves. Forget being amicable - shes a jerk who doesnt deserve my kindness. But, our kids do so i wont.
Now im just mad at her, which is not how i wanted spend my morning. Especially after having a fun night that had me feeling good. At least im not sad i guess.
I need to put angry wife out of my mind.
She's mad that im doing things without her input.
Good grief. I hear the same thing. It's almost like we aren't entitled to a life without them even though that's what they want.
Forget being amicable - shes a jerk who doesnt deserve my kindness. But, our kids do so i wont.
I so agree with this. I want nothing to do with mine and would, well, lets just say be not so nice. But, I have to remember the kids...
I need to put angry wife out of my mind.
Take your new-found date out again.
Question on detaching.
Part of detaching is to give the spouse their space. Not to pursue, etc. The other part is to let you learn to live without that person.
However, is it not good to detach from your spouse but then turn to others to fill that void? Could be family, friends, etc.?
This week, i found myself texting and IMing certain people way more than i ever did before.
I've always thought finding other ways to meet your emotional needs was a major part of detaching, provided you do it in healthy ways.
When you look at your WAS as the provider of your self worth, identity, social circle, life witness, companion, and so much more, the loss of her will feel exponential. It makes detachment nearly impossible. As you meet your needs on your own you'll rub your eyes and one day she'll just be a woman. A woman you may love, a woman you have history and children with, a woman you'd like to reconcile with, but not anything more that a woman. This makes it easier to detach, set healthy boundaries, and move forward with your own life.
This is why GAL is so important. It provides you other ways of meeting your needs. The key is to do it in ways that are appropriate for a married man, that fit with the person you want to become.
And, funny enough, even if you reconcile it helps to meet more of your needs on your own outside of the marriage and to remain somewhat detached. Most marital problems come from resentment and unmet needs. If you meet more of your needs on your own you can let go of your expectations of your spouse. This relief of pressure makes the marriage more stable, not less. People think it is the need for each other that keeps a marriage together. Clearly this isn't the entire story. Sometimes it's the relief of those needs that reduces the stress and allows people to co-exist.
There is nothing wrong with it, KevinIn. It will work wonders for the soul.
Zues - great insight! Definitely spoke to my situation. Thank you!
Spending this afternoon planning for our first Mediation meeting to walk through our separation.
Definitely not what i want to be doing at this point in my life.
Any tips?
In our case, we were in separate rooms - which is the norm at least in my state. No chance to talk, whatever. Remember, this is a business transaction - nothing more, nothing less. She will become someone you don't know. Just be ready. If you recall, during our mediation, she came out swinging - she tried to show staged pictures of the house; tried to prove that I was mentally unstable when in fact my lawyer had 6 text from her talking about suicide, etc.
I know you want to, but don't look for any DB stuff here. This is a whole different ball game now.
My DB Coach gave me some great advice on the DB opportunities.
It was mainly ways to say "no" and stand my ground without being offensive and demonstrating that i hear and understand her opinion even though i may not agree with it.
There's DB opportunities where we agree also. Instead of just saying "I agree", i'll make her feel that it was her idea and i'll add to that idea, to show that we can collaborate on an outcome.
Really, I just need to be nice and polite - just like a business meeting.
What if you aren't in the same room?
What if you aren't in the same room?
We will be. The goal is for us to work it out together. Thats how its done at the place we found. Very collaborative, hopefully.
Best of luck, my friend. At the same time, protect yourself. As I've stated before, mine acted the same way you described - THE EXACT SAME...until the proceedings started and she came out swinging. Just sayin.
Asked my apartment complex to take the wife off our lease today. It made me pretty mad at her for doing this to our family. I haven't had much anger, but for some reason it came out today.
You are doing well, my friend. In some aspects, I'm still mad at mine for doing this. It comes in waves. But you did the right thing.
Usually, a good night's sleep takes care of my emotions such as anger. However, i woke up still mad at her. This wave of anger is definitely lasting longer than usual.
I need to make sure to get rid of the anger and get myself into a happy place before tomorrow's mediation meeting.
Find a punching bag. Works wonders.
Find a punching bag. Works wonders.
Did that too. Thankfully I have a meeting later today at work that is going to be pretty painful, so then i can be mad at some employees instead. I'll just redirect the anger. Super healthy, right?
Tell me about it. Right there with you.
What if you aren't in the same room?
We will be. The goal is for us to work it out together. Thats how its done at the place we found. Very collaborative, hopefully.
She will use her Female super powers on you, I was told by my GF that she did that, and warned me when I was going through my mediation, she said never be in the same room. Females are always 2 steps ahead of us, they will use their eyes, movements to manipulate us. Stay strong my friend, I would suggest reserving the right to use separate rooms if you can...just sayin'
Find a punching bag. Works wonders.
I go to a gym where they play the music really loud...no one can hear me screaming! It beats crying.
I second the separate room. Not for the female superpowers thing, but it sure makes it a hell of a lot easier.
Find a punching bag. Works wonders.
I go to a gym where they play the music really loud...no one can hear me screaming! It beats crying.
What the hell, Gordie?
12 hours until mediation. Possibly the worst meeting I've ever had scheduled.
Still cant believe this is happening.
12 hours until mediation. Possibly the worst meeting I've ever had scheduled.
Still cant believe this is happening
Four hours until the final paper is signed in front of the judge and this marriage is done, signed, and sealed.
Its all so surreal.
March 16 is a sh!tty day for both of us.
We need to find GAL things to do tonight.
March 16 is a sh!tty day for both of us.
We need to find GAL things to do tonight.
Truth, brotherman. If I didn't have to work tomorrow and have the kids, I'd be out...not sure if I'd call it celebrating other than maybe getting drunk. Or maybe just asking a certain young lady who has been offering help during my time of crises...
Well, the first mediation session wasnt fun. But, it went as well as it probably could have. For for most part, we agreed on everything and were able to calmly talk through remaining items. I got 2 things that were important to me that i thought she'd not agree too, so that was good. No drama. The mediator even said how well we communicated during the process.
However, today was just custody related items. Next session includes money and assets.
Wife had her wall up the whole time and wouldnt look at me. I kept my sh!t together and only had 1 or 2 questionable comments to her that were not needed. We even laughed a little after about one of our kids.
Now that i've had time to think, one item stood out as perplexing - the wife supported the idea that no romantic partners can meet our kids until 6 months after a final divorce.
Since I know the OM is still in the picture, I'm not sure what she's thinking. In reality, i shouldn't care what she's thinking. I was just a little perplexed.
Now that i've had time to think, one item stood out as perplexing - the wife supported the idea that no romantic partners can meet our kids until 6 months after a final divorce.
Since I know the OM is still in the picture, I'm not sure what she's thinking. In reality, i shouldn't care what she's thinking. I was just a little perplexed.
She is probably thinking that you will immediately go out and have a girlfriend. I say the 6 month thing is a good deal. Some say wait till the kids are gone to date, or date and never introduce them to you kiddos.
6 months after a final divorce.
Damn, you gave in on that one, eh?
Mine is much, much longer with a lot of stipulations put in. As in not until marriage. Much of it is due to her past actions.
I know exactly what she is thinking - that the OM will be part of their lives. I'd reconsider this...just sayin.
6 months after a final divorce.
Damn, you gave in on that one, eh
At 6 months after a D, I'll probably be wanting to move on and introduce new people to my kids.
And if her A lasts that long, then i dont think ill care anymore.
I'd be very, very careful about introducing people to your children, as you will see it can two ways...either a huge resentment will be thrown in your face, or they will become attached which leads to more heartbreak over a breakup. I don't recall who said it over on the divorced thread, but there was a huge discussion about that same thing. For me, I won't introduce anyone to them for years, maybe never unless I remarry.
I'd be very, very careful about introducing people to your children, as you will see it can two ways...either a huge resentment will be thrown in your face, or they will become attached which leads to more heartbreak over a breakup. I don't recall who said it over on the divorced thread, but there was a huge discussion about that same thing. For me, I won't introduce anyone to them for years, maybe never unless I remarry.
Good points. I had not thought about this at all. Nor do I want to. But i suppose i need to think through it and read up on different perspectives. Sooooo annoying that she is doing this to our family.
Time to start another thread...
Click here for thread #3 of my DB journey. Still can't believe this is all happening. At least i'm GALing in the process.