Her – 33
Me – 38
Son – 12
Been together – 16 Years
Married – 7 Years
Ok, my first post so please take it easy on me. I apologize for the length in advance. So here is my story… my wife and I started dating when she was 17 and I was 23. It didn’t start well, more as fling more than anything else. She was totally enamored with me at the time. As we were dating for about 2 years she got pregnant at 19. I was very adamant about her having an abortion but luckily and through the grace of God she didn’t and we now have an amazing 12 year old boy who is the center of our universe. Needless to say she has a lot of resentment (and rightfully so) for my behavior during her pregnancy. We didn’t get married until our son was 5 years old and we did it at the justice of the peace. Again a lot of resentment. Somewhere along the line her being enamored with me turned and now she has the opposite feelings. A few years ago I had a vasectomy. Shortly after, she regretted it and said she wanted to have another baby. We have now been together for 16 years. She is 33 and I am 38. During the 16 years we have had ups and downs. Money has never been a real issue allowing us to go on great family vacations, nice house with pool, nice vehicles, etc. So a few issues over the last couple years of note:
1. She caught me with a secondary email address trying to talk to another woman
2. I caught her in bed with another man (both fully clothed at the time)…
3. I caught her making out with her best friend (female) at our NYE party. We had several couples over and a couple of singles. To date she despised that type of behavior and never had partaken in it. Well, our son was at this party (lots of drinking mind you), so I swooped her and her girlfriend into the bedroom and onto the bed. I went to use the restroom and when I come back they are having full blown lesbian sex. I was in complete shock (drunk mind you) and thought it would be a good time to join in. I joined in for a short amount of time at which point my wife got sick and went to the restroom to throw up. Her friend followed her in there and was consoling her as she was throwing up. Shortly thereafter, her friend came back to the bed and her and I had sex (while my wife was throwing up). I am not proud of this and live with regret each day/hour.
My wife claimed she blacked out and didn’t willingly participate in anything and that I was to blame for everything including “not protecting her”, and having sex with her friend. The next night I started sleeping on the couch and did so for about four days while my wife was continuing to sleep in the bedroom. One night about 5:30am, my cell phone rang and it was my wife saying to unlock the door. I was in a fog from being woke up like that and went and unlocked the door. She came in from the outside dressed as she was going out for the night and casually walked to the bedroom. I ask her what was going on and where she had been and she said “you have lost the privilege to know this anymore”. A couple night later she woke at about 12;30am and advised she was leaving. As it turns out she had been going over to the across the street neighbor’s house (single male) and spending “time” with him. So at this point I moved in with my parents’ house. Things from about 1/7/17 to just 2/12/17 have been highly contentious and not good at all. I actually filed for divorce on 1/17/17 and have until around the first week of April before it will be final.
Ok, here is where it gets interesting. She had been very upfront and honest telling me that she is dating that man, and that she developed feelings for him within 2-3 weeks. HE treats her so well, better than she has ever been treated (he is 10 years older than her) and why would she come back to me where there has been a void there for a long time. I have been doing the opposite of the 180’s, begging, crying, etc.. up until about a week ago. She is now saying she is “confused, undecided, hurt, doesn’t know what she wants, etc”. However, we met at Starbuck 2 days ago and had about a 3.5 hour conversation (30 mins of it was about the division of assets if/when we get a divorce) the other 3 hours were about us and the over life and situation. It was very positive and even ended with me walking her to her car and us hugging and me giving her a kiss on the check that was well received. As it turns out she agreed to go to a program at our church this Wednesday night. However, keep in mind she is still dating this other man and hasn’t told him she is going to this program with me. Of course there are a million more little details here and there but for the sake of time I will not share.
So my questions:
1. Do I go to this program with her on Wednesday even though she is still dating this man? I asked her why she wanted to go and her response was “I am willing to try one step at a time to see what happens”
2. Do I continue to try 180’s or try to be more affectionate?
3. Do I give her an ultimatum about her dating this man and if she continued I will see the divorce through in about 28 days?
4. It seems she is slowly becoming more in reality. She is self-admitted to not knowing what she wants and that since she has been with me since she was 17 she wants to “see what else is out there”.
5. I have agreed to have a vasectomy reversal and give her another baby
6. Do I have my head burred in the sand and should wake up and g through with the divorce? I love her more than anything and still to this day I could forgive her for dating this other man currently.
7. What do I do?!?!??!?
Hello sellout,
I moved you to newcomers so that more people will see your post and be able to offer support.
Little compares to the devastation people feel when their spouse has been unfaithful. Couples often struggle to get past intense emotional pain, mistrust, resentment and never ending arguments about the betrayal.
I know you are wanting to move your marriage in a more positive direction. Healing from infidelity is achievable for both of you with the right support and tools.
You are at a very fragile point in this relationship and it would be extremely helpful to know what your next move should be. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
So some of the issues you mentioned:
1. Getting her pregnant when you weren't married and she was still a teenager and wanting an abortion, though she didn't get one
2. Not marrying her...even after she had your child...and when you did marry her, it was five years later and at the justice of the peace (no ceremony, reception, etc.)
3. Various threats of or actual infidelity (on both of your parts)
4. She wants another baby...and to date, you have not been willing to give her one (though that's now under discussion)
And that's just in your introductory post. I'm sure there's a lot more that you haven't told us.
First, I'm proud that you have an awareness and ownership of some of the issues you contributed to where your M is today. That's a great first step.
Second, believe your W when she says she is confused...the most disturbing thing she said is she wants to see what else is out there...many of us here have heard the same.
Third, on the surface both of you seem to be giving each other contradictory messages: she says she is confused and is willing to go to a church marriage program...yet is sleeping with the across the street neighbor; you say you love her more than anything and could forgive her...yet you are the one who pulled the D trigger quickly/filed for D.
Fourth, you want answers to your list of seven questions. As a relative newbie with little information from you, I'm going to throw it back to you: what do you want to do and why? Only you are living in your shoes and know the details of your situation. There are generally two schools of thought, a softer one (re-build a relationship and connection) and a harder one (tough love at least until the affair is over...sandi2's rules). Only you will know the right approach. If you have the resources to do the DB coaching, you may want to consider that as talking to a live person (in contrast to an anonymous message board) can be invaluable.
She caught me with a secondary email address trying to talk to another woman
2. I caught her in bed with another man (both fully clothed at the time)…
3. I caught her making out with her best friend
This tells me that neither of you really are interested in being married. Is this correct?
It seems she is slowly becoming more in reality. She is self-admitted to not knowing what she wants and that since she has been with me since she was 17 she wants to “see what else is out there”.
Honestly? She wants out.
Do I have my head burred in the sand and should wake up and g through with the divorce? I love her more than anything and still to this day I could forgive her for dating this other man currently.
No one can answer that question but you. The main thing for now, is that you work on yourself. Get yourself to be the best Sellout you can. For you. Whether she comes back is up to her and only her...but, there is no working on your marriage until she out of the affair. That's why we say get yourself to where you need to be. For you.
Thank you all for the well wishes and comments thus far. So, its my understanding that I should forgo going to the counseling re/engage program until she gives up the other man? She is saying she wants to go to the program to see if there is any hope in the marriage and then she will give up the man. Seems like a catch 22. My thought process at the moment is that the program is just over 24 hours from now as Im typing this. I have nothing to lose between now and then and I will go with her to the program. Then, after the program is over tomorrow night, in my mind the clock is ticking and perhaps I draw a hard line in the sand with an ultimatum and time frame. Id she refuses to stop seeing him, I can pretty much assume it is over and then continue on with the divorce proceeding in about 28 days. Does anyone think this is a good/bad plan? Thoughts?
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
thanks. I am now living away so this is not an issue.
She is saying she wants to go to the program to see if there is any hope in the marriage and then she will give up the man
Let me get this straight - she says that she will give up the OM IF and only IF the marriage works? Mmmm, no.
Then, after the program is over tomorrow night, in my mind the clock is ticking and perhaps I draw a hard line in the sand with an ultimatum and time frame. Id she refuses to stop seeing him, I can pretty much assume it is over and then continue on with the divorce proceeding in about 28 days. Does anyone think this is a good/bad plan? Thoughts?
Ultimatums don't work in our cases. What you can say is that as long as she's in with him, then there is no "us" and won't be. But, she has to drop him. I wouldn't hold my breath.
So my questions:
1. Do I go to this program with her on Wednesday even though she is still dating this man? I asked her why she wanted to go and her response was “I am willing to try one step at a time to see what happens”
I think it's OK to go. But the focus should on listening and validating. That said, you cant really progress as a couple until it's the two of you committed to making things work.As long as OM is in the picture, that cant really happen.
2. Do I continue to try 180’s or try to be more affectionate?
These are definitely different questions. YES, you should be doing 180s. Stop the unproductive behaviors. That said, while there is an OM, your affection is only making the situation worse. Stop pursuing her.
3. Do I give her an ultimatum about her dating this man and if she continued I will see the divorce through in about 28 days?
You already filed. YOU get to decide whether or not to stop it. Dont give an ultimatum, because what if she stops it to get you to 'unfile' and then restarts it as soon as the ink is dry? YOU decide whether or not to stop it. EVen if it goes through, what does it really mean anyway?
4. It seems she is slowly becoming more in reality. She is self-admitted to not knowing what she wants and that since she has been with me since she was 17 she wants to “see what else is out there”.
Is this a question? To me, it sounds pretty typical. Let her see. The grass isnt greener.
5. I have agreed to have a vasectomy reversal and give her another baby
Are you going through with the surgery? If so, I wouldnt. This shouldnt be a way to 'get her back'. This is something you should do if you choose to once this situation is resolved.
6. Do I have my head burred in the sand and should wake up and g through with the divorce? I love her more than anything and still to this day I could forgive her for dating this other man currently.
Divorce or no, you need to re-connect with yourself. What is important to you? How can you become the best version of you possible? These are the things to focus on now, I think.
Thank you all for the well wishes and comments thus far. So, its my understanding that I should forgo going to the counseling re/engage program until she gives up the other man? She is saying she wants to go to the program to see if there is any hope in the marriage and then she will give up the man. Seems like a catch 22. My thought process at the moment is that the program is just over 24 hours from now as Im typing this. I have nothing to lose between now and then and I will go with her to the program. Then, after the program is over tomorrow night, in my mind the clock is ticking and perhaps I draw a hard line in the sand with an ultimatum and time frame. Id she refuses to stop seeing him, I can pretty much assume it is over and then continue on with the divorce proceeding in about 28 days. Does anyone think this is a good/bad plan? Thoughts?
Its a good plan if you want to be divorced.
She has to decide to give up OM. If you try to push her to decide it, she is going to resist and rebel.
This divorce is about you protecting yourself -- not about punishing her.
She has to decide to give up OM. If you try to push her to decide it, she is going to resist and rebel.
This divorce is about you protecting yourself -- not about punishing her.
Sorry, I should have been more clear.
I dont think its a good idea to say "If you are still seeing OM then I am going to keep the divorce proceedings on track."
Better is to say that "I am not interested in staying in a relationship with someone who is seeing another person."
In the second phrasing, it's about you and what you will accept. The first is about trying to control her actions.
Thank you all for the well wishes and comments thus far. So, its my understanding that I should forgo going to the counseling re/engage program until she gives up the other man? She is saying she wants to go to the program to see if there is any hope in the marriage and then she will give up the man. Seems like a catch 22. My thought process at the moment is that the program is just over 24 hours from now as Im typing this. I have nothing to lose between now and then and I will go with her to the program. Then, after the program is over tomorrow night, in my mind the clock is ticking and perhaps I draw a hard line in the sand with an ultimatum and time frame. Id she refuses to stop seeing him, I can pretty much assume it is over and then continue on with the divorce proceeding in about 28 days. Does anyone think this is a good/bad plan? Thoughts?
Hi sellout,
This all sounds way oversimplified. We are missing a lot of crucial information before getting on board with this plan.
What is the rush? Take the time to really do some soul searching and get some clarity on your goals while considering what is best for your son.
Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Well things went south very quick. I told her that I would NOT go to the program (tonight at 6:30) under the pretenses that she is still seeing the OM. She shut down rather quickly and we are not not talking and certainly not going tonight. She spent the night with him last night again. Back to the drawing board and/or obtaining an attorney ASAP since the divorce is schedule for hearing in about 3 weeks. not good people!!
Whats not good?
Through your actions, you stood up for what you believe in and showed you wouldnt be her Plan B.
Agreed, but at the end of the day, where did that get me? Is it about "standing up for myself" and ego, or doing whatever it takes to make it work long term even if that means being dragged through the mud for the time being. Trust me, this is not easy and my mind goes back and forth by the hour. Its touch and go... This is where I left it..."I will respect your wishes of giving you space, but let me know if you decide to change your mind about tonight".
so i even backtracked and asked her if she would go to the program tonight and her response was "absolutely not". About 14 hours ago she was all in for going and we were even go to ride together. Then after texting back and forth all morning, I receive this text from her "Leave me alone, your suffocating me. I want nothing more than to never see or talk to you again right now".
I want this to work but im not a patient person by nature. Do I give her space (how much/how long) or continue to try and get her to go tonight?
Agreed, but at the end of the day, where did that get me?
Have you read any of Sandi's threads on LBS with a WW?
Your W is in a relationship with another man. You cannot compete with him and the more that you try, the more you will convince her that he is the "best choice". It isnt about 'ego', it IS about doing what works the best long term. And the best chance that you have 'long term' to make this marriage work is to earn her respect. How can you earn respect by competing for her with this other man?
This is where I left it..."I will respect your wishes of giving you space, but let me know if you decide to change your mind about tonight".
So, now Im confused. You are leaving it to her to decide if she wants to go tonight? I thought you made it clear you werent going to while she is seeing another man. You JUST said she slept at his house last night. I think, from her actions, it's clear that she isnt going to drop him TODAY. So what confusion is there about going tonight?
In my opinion, it's a lot more effective to give her space than to tell her youre going to give her space.
KAizen: Thanks and you are right. So, how do I show her that I refuse to compete with him but not give the impression that I am giving up? Seems like a catch 22 right?
Your right, she is NOT going to drop him today, this week or next. Her comment was "she will take this one step and see what happens" by going to the event. However, I was not ok with us going to the event with her still seeing him (which i may now regret). She is having her cake and eating it too by dating him and just in case that doesn't work out she can come back running to me. That's what I have the problem with. With that said, if I cut all ties (give up) then there is ZERO chance it will work. Am I right?
how do I show her that I refuse to compete with him but not give the impression that I am giving up? Seems like a catch 22 right?
What do you mean by 'giving up'? What exactly is there right now to 'give up'? What it sounds like you mean is how can I continue to pursue her while not pursuing her?
My advice is to give up. Let her have whatever this is with OM. The more you fight it, the more it will galvanize them anyway. Take your focus off of her and work on becoming the best you that you can be. How can you be an awesome dad? How can you be more empathetic? a better listener? a better friend? a better validator? more patient? more tolerant? etc etc
If she does decide to entertain actually reconciling with you, then you can decide what you want.
With that said, if I cut all ties (give up) then there is ZERO chance it will work. Am I right?
Thats your fear talking. You believe if you let her have freedom of choice that she wont choose you. You will always have some level of connection through your child. If she wants to talk to you, she knows where to find you.
I think you are right. If I had to rate how things are going right now I would give it a zero. I guess the only way from here is up right. I keep reading on working on myself and getting ME right, which i am already doing. Eating healthy, exercise, spiritually, etc... but if I dont talk or see her how will she she that i have become the man she wants to choose? Or is this even the point? I need to work on me, for me, right? So day 1 i guess on the new me and total 180's. Again, by nature I am impatient but that is something i need to work on. I think that if i dont see some type of sign or improvement between now and the divorce hearing (3.5 weeks) then I will go through with it. The thing she really struggles with is selling the house (its the place where all of our sons friends congregate), a home we have built together. Also she is not ok with us living in 2 separate apartments with our son going back and forth between. Her quality of life will be significantly diminished, but I dont think at this point she cares. Since she got pregnant at 19 and didn't have the "fun" time in her life she is finally getting to experience that. The problem being that it comes with consequences that she could and probably will regret later on because its going to cost her her family, home, security, money, etc... From what I understand here, there is nothing me or anyone else can do to convince her of that. She will either decide its not worth it or decide its worth it and possibly regret it later on.
Also, should I be dating? I have opportunities to do so now. If so, should I tell her or "let her find out"? Does creating jealousy help?
I only have one question ...
Do you love her ??
It is rare that I don't read those words in an initial post...
see her how will she she that i have become the man she wants to choose
No. This isn't a competition. She shouldn't have to choose you.
Also, should I be dating? I have opportunities to do so now. If so, should I tell her or "let her find out"?
Not while you are still married - in no way should you do that. No way.
Yes, I LOVE her so much. We have spent almost everyday together for 16 years and she is my best friend. We complete each others sentences. Yes, I LOVE Her.
one more thing...when all of this first went down, I cut her access to the bank account and debit card. She has her own business account that she always uses for typical spending expenses. She now wants me to get her back on the account and her have full access to everything. While I agree she is legally entitled to it, should I do this or would it make me look weak? We are scheduled to meet at 12:00 today.
Yes, I LOVE her so much. We have spent almost everyday together for 16 years and she is my best friend. We complete each others sentences. Yes, I LOVE Her.
Then slow down a bit with this...
This didn't begin overnight, and it won't end overnight...
You are going to have to learn patience, and then when you are out of patience, you are going to have to reach deep within...
To find more patience...
Stop talking so much also...
You are never going to talk your way out of something that you acted your way into....
Mach 1 - wow, that is a great analogy...thank you.
"You are never going to talk your way out of something that you acted your way into...."
So this could take weeks, months, years, never. The silver lining in all of this is that she is a good person at heart and very forgiving (read my first post). But your right...starting right now complete 180's!!! No other choice at this point. what i have been doing has not worked and actually made things worse.
she is a good person at heart and very forgiving
Enough "she" in these posts...
How about you ??
Talk more about you...
one more thing...when all of this first went down, I cut her access to the bank account and debit card. She has her own business account that she always uses for typical spending expenses. She now wants me to get her back on the account and her have full access to everything. While I agree she is legally entitled to it, should I do this or would it make me look weak? We are scheduled to meet at 12:00 today.
What you are doing is controlling. IF she has a right to it, she has a right to it. Does she have her own money in there? If not, then, why not set up separate bank accounts? If yes, then she has the right to access it.
Does she work? What is the financial arrangement between the both of you. With my WW, she is a SAHM, but I employ her through my business as an admin, so she gets a wage and is a 25% shareholder. I have not given her any financial penalties.
I have struggled with control vs boundaries (i.e. cutting off her internet access to contact OM as it is an online EA rather than a PA) but I have stopped doing this.
At this stage, the WW is an addict to the affair. Attempting control only pushes them further away. I have first hand experience of this.
Another question - can your W financially harm you if she has access to the joint account. I mean seriously harm you, clean you out or suchlike?
We have spent almost everyday together for 16 years and she is my best friend. We complete each others sentences
You did. But now its not. Can it be again? Maybe. Maybe not. She didn't come to this decision overnight, nor will it be fixed any time soon...if it is fixed at all.
I think you are right. If I had to rate how things are going right now I would give it a zero. I guess the only way from here is up right. I keep reading on working on myself and getting ME right, which i am already doing. Eating healthy, exercise, spiritually, etc... but if I dont talk or see her how will she she that i have become the man she wants to choose? Or is this even the point? I need to work on me, for me, right?
As I said before, you will be forever linked by your child. Not to mention the 16 year relationship you had. I look at it like this. You cant really see grass grow or paint dry in real time. So you cant really 'show' her your changes day by day. But what if you go on vacation for a month - when you get back, what does the grass look like?
The thing she really struggles with is selling the house (its the place where all of our sons friends congregate), a home we have built together. Also she is not ok with us living in 2 separate apartments with our son going back and forth between.
So whats the plan then? I cant imagine you are going to live together after your divorce. And I imagine you arent going to give her 100% custody, right? So, sounds like this is what will happen. I dont see her not liking it as a bad thing.
Also, should I be dating? I have opportunities to do so now. If so, should I tell her or "let her find out"? Does creating jealousy help?
It isnt about the timing of being divorced. Why on earth would you be dating? You just said you LOVE your wife. For me, I didnt start dating until I could look in the mirror and honestly tell myself that my ex would have to get in line behind my new partner (whoever it was going to be) in case a proposal for reconciling was on the table; that I wouldnt sacrifice any new relationship for the old one.
I guess the only way from here is up right. I keep reading on working on myself and getting ME right, which i am already doing. Eating healthy, exercise, spiritually, etc... but if I dont talk or see her how will she she that i have become the man she wants to choose? Or is this even the point?
By NOT talking with her, you ARE showing her that you have changed..
I need to work on me, for me, right?
That is typically the plan...
Who will benefit the most from you working on yourself ???
So day 1 i guess on the new me and total 180's. Again, by nature I am impatient but that is something i need to work on.
Dude....right now...
Every time you talk with her, you are providing her with the same vision of you that she is scrambling to get away from...
Every time that you beg, plead, argue with her, all you are doing is validating her reasons for wanting to end this marriage...
Right now, what she feels is what SHE feels, and by arguing with her, begging, pleading...
All that you are doing is telling her that her feelings are wrong...
And when you tell a person that their feelings are wrong, you are trying to "fix" them, like they are broken or something...
And while the things that she may be saying may not be true, they are very true to her....the only person's opinion that matters to her right now...
I think that if i dont see some type of sign or improvement between now and the divorce hearing (3.5 weeks) then I will go through with it.
That certainly is your choice....
However....
sellout
New Member
Registered: 02/13/17
Posts: 11Really ??
You have let her carry this relationship on her back for how many years now ???
And you want to give up after a few weeks ???
Actions and words....
What do they mean to you ???
Ok, so an update from over the last 48 hours or so. So she spent the night with OM on Tuesday night.
We were cancelled at this point to go the marriage counseling course which was to take place Wednesday evening at 6:30pm.
Around 2:30 on Wednesday I got a call from her, which is odd at this point as everything has been running through texts for last 7 weeks.
She found out that I had dinner with a friend (female).
This female friend is ONLY a friend and I have known her for many years.
Wife decided to pretty much flip out on me and yell at me about this.
Keep in mind she has been dating OM for 7 weeks.
NOW she cares that I had an innocent dinner with a friend. Comments ranged from “I hope you’re happy”, “This is the woman you want to be around our son”, etc… Shortly after we got off the phone, she texted me and said “I am Breaking it off with OM”.
I asked her why and she said because she is confused, it’s not worth it, etc.
15 min later she texted again and said it was official that she broke it off with him. I let things simmer and then decided to ask her to go to the marriage counseling thing at the church that night which started in about 3 hours from this point. She said she didn’t know and for me to do what I needed to do. I finally said that’s it, Im coming to pick you up at 5:30 and we are going to this thing, which she agreed.
About 15 min before I was scheduled to pick her up, she called and asked if we could meet somewhere nearby in a parking lot and then ride from there?
I agreed but asked why. She said she was not ready to pour salt on the wounds of the OM across the street. In her mind she was concerned that he would see me picking her up.
So at this point a couple of things come to mind.
1) Did she even break it off with him,
2) If she did break it off with him, did she tell him that she was going to attempt to work things out with me? Ok, so we met in parking lot and proceeded to drive almost an hour with traffic to this counseling church event.
The entire time was awkward, contentious and uncomfortable. I was very calm the whole time but she was combative.
I kept my cool. Several times I wanted to make a U-turn and take her home!! We attend the event which was amazing btw, but she had a middle of the road at best attitude towards it the entire time.
On the way home I asked her what she thought and she said she didn’t know.
I asked her what her ultimate plan was and she said she didn’t know.
She didn’t know if she wanted to try and work it out with me or whatever.
I dropped her off at her car and she went on her way.
I went and picked up our son from the grandparents’ house and took him home.
I had to help him inside with some of his bag, etc. Ona normal night, wife is a busy body, in the kitchen, media room, just up doing something especially at this time of night.
When I walked in she was just lying on the bed staring at the ceiling. I didn’t say anything and left. That night around midnight she texted me saying that Im lying about that OW, and she knows there is more (which there isn’t). Her to text at this time of night is highly unusual. I didn’t respond.
She texted me at 7:15am the next morning, “You have nothing to say”? I told her I was not lying and was not going to continue these types of conversations with her.
She continued for the majority of yesterday morning with the same types of texts about “I can’t believe you would choose this girl” “She is trashy, ugly, can’t you do any better, etc”. I ignored them.
At this point I went on to try and create a 2 week look ahead on visitation for our son. I jotted some dates together on a calendar and sent them to her.
She said it’s too sloppy to read and that she will look into it later and let me know.
That was about 24 hours ago and neither one of us have texted or called each other since.
As you can see her behavior is a complete 180 of what she has been doing and acting in the last 7 weeks.
Has she finally realized what she is doing is wrong?
Has she broken down?
For the first time ever she said she needs counseling.
What is going on in her head?
What is my game plan at this point?
Has she finally realized what she is doing is wrong?
Probably not
Doubtful
For the first time ever she said she needs counseling.
What is going on in her head?
What is my game plan at this point?
Good that she is going to counseling
Her head - think of the aftermath of a hurricane or tornado,
looks like that.
Your game plan is to keep DB'ing.
Take the focus off of her and put it on YOU.
So what are your goals right now?
What are you doing to work on them?
Lots....
However...
Stay with what YOU have been doing...working on yourself...
Nothing has changed, and nothing will change, until she says it has changed...
Sellout
There is a precious 12 year old child involved and observing this horrible mess of an R and M between his parents.
It is time for YOU to grow up and be the dad that you should be to this little boy. That is my view. There are some amazing dads on this forum who put their children first.
A child observing this teenager behaviour of his parents isn't good in my view. At this time as the more stable parent it is my opinion that you have to step up to the plate and be a rock dad.
Your child needs you to be solid.
And frankly your child comes first.
This is a view and i believe things can change, firstly you are here in DB land and you have been clear and honest. I commend you for this, it is an enormous step and an important step. In twelve steps it is step 1 and without acceptance of your role in it, your sitch can't change.
There is a great deal of work to do for you on you. Your WW and your M are secondary as to whether this mum is fit to be around her child. Children are more aware of waywardness than you know and neither of you have been discrete, your WW is visible with the neighbour across the street. Not good at all, affairs with those who are willing and close to hand. Indiscriminate even.
This requires therapy for you and your son, I think so. An investment in your change and care of S12.
From that which you have written I observe the desire for change and growth.
So what are your goals for this change? In which ways do you need maturity? How will you achieve THEM?
V
Ok, so it’s been about 3 weeks and wanted to provide update, details and get some opinions. She is still seeing OM and now completely open about it. She stays at his house on some nights and I am still living in my own apartment a few miles away. She has openly admitted to having unprotected sex with him and she is not on birth control. This is highly out of character for her because she is VERY health conscience. We have been talking less and less and basically just through text for coordination purposes for our son. A few nights ago out of nowhere she texted me song lyrics (of “our” songs) and said she misses me. She went on to say that she is soooo depressed, confused, conflicted and that she broke down tonight and balled and cried in the bed for hours. I said the same and she ended the texting with “I love you”. Of course the next day things went back to normal where I’m angry about her still seeing the OM, etc… and the next couple of days were up/down. Then it got so bad and I couldn’t handle it anymore that I went and re-filed the divorce papers yesterday morning and texted her images of the paperwork showing her that I court date is scheduled for 4/7/17. She texted me back immediately saying “I hope you’re happy”. My response was “not yet, but I will be”. No communication throughout the day and at 7:30 last night I get a text out of the blue asking if I was busy and if not, would I go to dinner with her? I agreed and went to dinner thinking she was going to have a change of heart, tell me she dropped the OM and let’s work it out. Nope! She wanted to just “talk” caused she misses me and the “the only things we have talked about for the past 2.5 months is the situation”. I again for the millionth time told her I have no desire to have dinner with her, talk to her, etc. under the pretense that she is still seeing OM. The dinner lasted for about 30 min and then I left somewhat abruptly saying I was done and please don’t pull a “stunt” like this again. We texted a little afterwards and she said she just misses me but she is still 50/50 on if she wants to save marriage or stick with OM (causes he treats her like she deserves to be treated). She says, “what if I she decides to work on the marriage and it doesn’t work out”, then she has lost the OM too. She claims she is in a lose/lose situation. Some back and forth text in the middle of the night and finally I got so fed up with it this morning that my last text to her was to inform her that I am blocking her # and I will not accept any more calls/texts (which I did about 2 hours ago). I told her the next time we talk will be in court. So basically the last week she has started to show emotion over this whole thing and admits she is depressed and doesn’t know what she wants to do vs 100% wanting to get a divorce. To me, her not knowing and continuing the relations with OM is making her choice. I can’t/won’t stick around and be her doormat as bad as it hurts. Am I looking at this wrong? Until 2 hours ago Ive don’t a poor job of detaching including agreeing to meet her for dinner last night. My though was that if I didn’t meet her on her request I could be losing out on one of the last opportunities that possibly existing. When leaving she wanted to engage in a long romantic hug (which I declined) and she was upset saying, “you should hug me, it could be the last time we hug”. As of now, her calls/texts are blocked. If she really wants to, she can call/text from our sons phone or email me. What to do????
What do you want to do? Do you want her back? Even after all she has done? Why?
Have you read Vanilla's post above?
What is your progress with those things?
To me, her not knowing and continuing the relations with OM is making her choice. I can’t/won’t stick around and be her doormat as bad as it hurts. Am I looking at this wrong?
I think you know the answer. You need to detach. Stop meeting her, stop texting her. She's trying to have her cake and eat it too. She isn't even hiding that fact. Don't make yourself an option, make yourself a choice. Don't make yourself available to her so she has to actually see what life is like without you.
Of course, this is all if you even want to work on things. You've set a court date and have seemed adamant at times to get divorced. Decide where you want things to go and stick to a plan. Either way though, limit your contact with her as much as possible. She'll just continue coming in and out of your life and put you through heartache. Leave her be and focus on yourself.
Do I want her back? I feel that I do, but is it only to "keep the family intact" or because I want what I can have? I dont think so, but its possible.
Our son is not aware of what is going on. He will find out one day and that will suck.
I feel that I do, but is it only to "keep the family intact" or because I want what I can have? I dont think so, but its possible.
Well, the first thing is this - why. And then comes trust. If you can't fully, 1000000% trust her when she is "running late" or some excuse, then there is a huge flag that needs to be dealt with.
I can understand keeping the family intact. Hell, I wanted the same thing. But, knowing that the level of disrespect that has occurred, you must also ask yourself this - are you willing to keep her around because of your memories of what she was or are you afraid of being alone? The love isn't there...no person who loved would do what she did.
Our son is not aware of what is going on. He will find out one day and that will suck.
He will. And it will more than suck.
Do I want her back? I feel that I do, but is it only to "keep the family intact" or because I want what I can have? I dont think so, but its possible.
Our son is not aware of what is going on. He will find out one day and that will suck.
He's 12 and he may know more than you think he knows. The kids see and hear...everything.
Update: So I regrteed my action on not being intune with her at dinner the other night, not giving her a hug when leaving and texting her not to try and set anything up with me anymore. I texted her yesterdya afternoon to try and do a "re-do" and she said she would think about it. After about 2 hours she called me (not texted) and agreed to go. I decided to take her to a nice shopping area of town because I was looking for a shirt. Long story short, we happily shopped for 3 hours and had a great dinner. While walking back to the car she grabbed my hand and held it on the way to the car. We engaged in a long hug when dropping her off at her car. It was the best night we have had together in at least 3 months since all of this blew up. NOW HERE IS THE KICKER: she is still "confused" on what to do. She is admittingly going out with OM tonight for a date. I kept my composure and told her that I cant do anything about that and i can only control myself. Is she breaking or something else? We are less than three weeks away from the divorce. Thoughts?
She is cake eating and you texting her for a redo just set you back big time.
I hear you LH19. Hear me thought process though...I have been not been there for her for the 16 years of marriage. Absent, abandonment, etc... If i am to detach, isn't that more of the same behaviors? Also, how is she suppose to know what she wants if we NEVER see each other. She made the comment of she misses her husband and wanted to have a time where we could just sit and talk without any drama for once. That happened and felt really good. I understand what seems logical, but do you sometime need to go with your heart? Its not always as black and white as it seems. I would assume that within the next three weeks (until divorce date) the date I setup (she never would set a date), I will know where her heart is. IN the meantime I have to be a standup man, father and friend no matter what. No matter what happens, i must treat her with respect as she is the mother of my child and we will be connected for the rest of our lives. I think a "Semi-detachment" is what is in store for me at the moment. She has in the last week shared her breakdown moments with me, shared "our songs" with me, held my hand. Is that not showing that she is considering reconciling?
Read the post from Accuracy to Brizz. By far the best post I have read to date.
Very sorry for what you've gone through here, it's heartbreaking. You've done some things very well and handled the initial situation as well as can be expected. More recently however you're falling into a very familiar pattern that leads to a long period of pain and limbo.
Being in this situation is like dying of thirst floating on a raft in a poison lake. Everyone will tell you not to drink the water, and why you shouldn't drink the water, and what will happen to you if you drink the water. You can intellectually understand what they're saying, you "get it", you can convince yourself that you're not going to drink the water, but each night when you go to sleep and each morning when you wake up, you're thirsty as hell and the water is right there, so it's extremely easy to convince yourself that a little sip can't hurt. Despite the fact that you know you should not drink the water, you will just keep doing it because you keep convincing yourself its okay to do so because you're just dying of thirst.
So how do we bring that to your scenario? There is really only one prescription and that is to take the focus off of W entirely and focus only on you, your life, and what you want from it. Your learnings about what you need to improve about yourself are an asset you take with you, but everything else about W, what W is doing, what W is thinking, etc. needs to be entirely put aside.
You are not safe for her to approach until she feels you've let her go. That's a simple truth, but incredibly hard to accept.
Reaching out to W, making overtures, contacting W's family, talking to OM's W, snooping on W, this is all "drinking the poison water"
Why are you doing it? Why are you so obsessed with W? You were in a relationship with an LD woman who wasn't meeting your needs, who would irrationally blame you for anything that went wrong, and then cheated on you and lied to you. Why is that a prize worth making the focus of your waking attention?
The reason is that you are grasping to re-establish a feeling of control over your life.
When W cheated/left she ripped your sense of stability away from you. From your perspective you didn't do anything to deserve it, you couldn't stop it from happening, and you couldn't put things back together afterwards.
That would make anyone feel totally out of control, spinning down the drain, and that is a horrible feeling!
You are trying to analyze and understand everything so that you can build it into a rational model so that it will never, ever happen to you again. If I can avoid doing X, then Y will never happen. In addition, you want to unlock this puzzle, to deconstruct it so you can find the solution that will allow you to rebuild it. Finding that key would provide immense comfort.
Your brain has convinced itself that getting W back, or getting W to apologize and declare a desire to have you back is the very best and fastest way to restore your feeling of being in control.
With the benefit of time and distance, you'll realize that's what it's really all about, it's about regaining the ability to feel in control of your life and your future. It really has very little to do with W or who she is as a person, she's a lever to get you what you want, but that's really just an illusion.
You're dying of thirst (feeling out of control), and pursuing W is drinking the water out of the poison lake. You think it will satisfy your thirst each time you do it, but really it's just making you more sick.
We will tell you "don't drink the water!" Intellectually you'll agree, but the water is always there and logically it seems that drinking it is the shortest path to no longer being thirsty.
Instead, you need to paddle your ass to the shore, leave the raft behind, and get a drink somewhere else.
That's not code for having your own affair or finding a new woman to have a relationship with. It has to do with finding an authentic way to rebuild your feeling of being in control, controlling your own destiny and getting your mojo back.
If you take the focus off of W *completely* she will notice. That will give her space to breathe, and to think. That's the only way these things turn around -- the ONLY way.
Don't drink the water. I know it's right there. Don't drink it.
Good post indeed but not entirely accurate to my situation. I was/have been the one to mess over over time and she finally had her breaking moment and started her affair. Right for her to do...of course not? I feel she is finally seeing that what she is doing is wrong and could cost her the marriage, family, house, financial freedom, etc... I dont want to jeopardize her newfound thoughts with completely detaching. This would be another up/down that I have been putting her through the lst 2.5 months. Again, not justifying what she is doing but also need to be there for here when she is ready (just like she had been there for me the last 16 years when I continually screwed up). Im not going to shower her with gifts, etc... but if she calls, texts, I will answer and be nice. Does it feel I am playing 2nd fiddle or trying to get my "starting quarterback job" back...yes, and its a bad feeling but I think we may finally be making some progress. Why in the world would she want to spend 5 hours with me last night and hold my hand?
Should I want her back? I have put her though hell and back over a long period of time but we always held it together. Is what she is doing revenge? If so, can i ever forgive her?
sellout,
I just read through your thread. Vanilla posted to you on 2/25/17. I suggest you go back to read her post and respond to her questions.
You and your W both lack the relationship skills to overcome this RIGHT NOW. You say one thing and do another. There are no boundaries. You both demonstrate destructive behavior toward one another. Is this what you want to model for your S?
You filed for D a second time. That clearly came from a place of emotion. You both are inconsistent and confused based on what I have read thus far.
Tell us what your goals are to improve yourself.
How are you as a father?
Additionally, read the detachment thread that Cadet posted to you.
You have the ability to positively affect the outcome. It starts with you. You have to get yourself to a good place, before you can get your M/R to a good place.
sellout,
There are literally hundreds of us that felt the exact same way you do right now: We felt that we 'effd up our Marriages and we weren't there for our spouses, so we try to make up for lost time after the fact.
I'm so sorry to be the one to tell you this, brother, but it doesn't work that way. You can go back through my sitch and look at exactly what I went through, and what I was saying are exactly the same things you are saying right now. The difference is that my W hid the A, yours is flaunting it in your face.
She is setting you up for the "friend-zone."
I understand you don't want to believe these guys, but that is where you are heading.
It has to get worse before it gets better.
Scenario:
She calls and asks you to do something.
You say "Have you decided, or are you still hanging out with OM?"
She says "I don't know what I want."
You hang up.
Then she's going to throw all sorts of spew your way, telling you how lousy you are etc. She'll try to throw this guy in your face etc. It will be awful and you'll come back on here telling everybody how wrong we were about how to handle the sitch.
we'll tell you to stick to the script and it will get bad for a while, and then two things will happen:
1) By detaching and looking at this thing objectively, you'll realize that you can only be responsible for you, and you will figure out who you want to be and what you want to do. She may come back, she may stay with OM, she may move onto OM2, OM3, OM4, OM15, but you will be okay because you will be taking care of yourself and your son. Not your circus.
2) When you ghost her, she'll be livid at first, then she'll start to wonder why, then she'll start to wonder why you don't think she's good enough anymore. Now she's thinking about you and that's where you want her head to be. Any attention is good attention.
Here's the kicker in the whole process:
While she's putting all that focus on you, you're going to be just fricking lights out crushing life. You are not going to feel like doing any of this, but you are going to "fake it 'till you make it."
MOST IMPORTANTLY, YOU ARE GOING TO BE DOING IT FOR YOU!!!!!!!!
She will see the changes. She won't want to, but she will, and she will be mad!
she will say things like "Why now?"
You need to remember that it's her call, though. You can't manipulate someone back into your life; you have to make the changes because you want to, not because you're trying to "win her back."
Why in the world would she want to spend 5 hours with me last night and hold my hand?
So she can continue to sell OM and have you as plan B. "you can ignore reality but you can't avoid the consequences of ignoring reality".
Good info guys. I guess I left out some key points that may change some opinions. I have not been begging, I have been giving space for the most part. I have become the best father I have ever been (was not a bad one to begin with), I have lost about 25 lbs (partially working out, partially diet), and have reconnected with some old friends. I have minimized a lot of communication with family members that have been a source of connection for a long time. Since we are living apart its hard for her to see/know all of the above mentioned items but she has caught on enough to see the majority of this. So, other than 100% detaching, which is impossible since we have our son, the commincation has been pretty minimal. At the end of the day, her reaching out to me out of the blue the other night just wanting to get dinner tells me she is not 100% done with this marriage and then to spend 5 hours with me last night further validates that. On the other hand, her dating this OM may end up sealing the fate based on MY decision. Last, it seems the majority of this online community is about detaching and doing what is right for YOU. Honestly guys, that is what got me here in the first place is being selfish and not being attentive to her needs, wants, desires. Wouldn't more selfish behavior further validate her feelings for leaving in the first place? I know if sounds counter-intuitive and there is no magic formula for every situation but it almost seems like the old adage: treat a woman bad and act like you dont like her and she will like you more. What am I missing here?
So she can continue to sell OM and have you as plan B.
possibly, but at this point and with less than three weeks from the divorce going down (which no, I dont want), I will take my chances, put my ego aside and treat her with dignity and respect. I wont chase, but a complete detachment will NOT work with this woman at this point. I think we are too close. She is in a fog right now but I think slowly coming out of it.
What does detachment mean to you?
No calls, text, emails other than coordination for the kid. Make yourself physically and emotionally unavailable. Correct?
No calls, text, emails other than coordination for the kid. Make yourself physically and emotionally unavailable. Correct?
Not exactly. Have you read the thread(s) in the homework?
It's more about controlling your own emotional well being.
I dont know guys, at a loss here. I feel as though we could potentially be so close to making this work and if I was to detach now, it could throw it all away. What if.... I semi-detach and see what happens in the next 2.5 weeks and then if that doesn't work, then detach? In reality, Ive just lot some time right?
What if.... I semi-detach and see what happens in the next 2.5 weeks and then if that doesn't work, then detach?
sellout,
I'm sorry to be the one to deliver the news, but semi-detaching requires at least three weeks.
Ha! Ok, I will see if I can push the court date about 1 week. I should be good then!!
wow, I'm amazed at what I read when I just went through your thread.
I'm curious, have you read DR or DB? Have you read the links that cadet gave you the first day? You haven't mentioned one thing your doing that follows along DB principles. I can't tell if you are telling us some of the stuff you've done (like manned up at dinner and told her that you weren't interested in dating her, then gave her your balls and asked if you can have a redo) because you know you fell off the path you should have stayed on, or because you have no idea how bad those actions make you look to her.
Let me ask you something, and be honest. Are you ok with being in a Marriage Relationship with her while she is dating another man?
If not, then why do you keep trying to be her husband when she is with another man? Don't take her shopping and hold her hand, unless you're ok with keeping the relationship where it is.
Many of us, such as myself, do those types of things not knowing that the A is ongoing, but you can't begin to work on a MR while she is still communicating with OM.
You want to know why she keeps going back and forth? Because she wants everything, the safety of her M that she's known since her teens, and to play the field like a teenager... If your not okay with an open M, then don't let her go back and forth, she gets to make a choice, she can decide to stay with OM if she wants to (nothing can be done about that), or she can choose to go NC. If she chooses to continue with OM, then step away as her H, unless your ok with your W dating.
as for the D, I think your trying to use it as a weapon. I'm not sure why your in such a hurry to D. Is there a need to do it to protect yourself? Or do you just feel like it's going to make everything perfect for you if your not M to her? It's NOT going to end your pain and suffering, you need time and to focus on your own happiness for that to happen, it will happen the same whether your M or not. Divorce is a piece of paper, not a magic pill.
I'm sorry if this seems harsh, but if you really want help in DB'ing, let us know, tell us what your doing and ask us for our opinions on what you could/should be doing... We will help!
But if you just want to bounce all over the place, and immediately act upon your instincts and tell us about it, then that's your perogative and it does make for an interesting read.
Coconut: you are right. It just feels so wrong to "turn my back on her" when she has been there for me in my lowest times over 16 years. I KNOW she still has feeling for me and it would be a shame to give up the bond, life and family we built over 16 years. I don't want to do a "tit for tat" thing either. I want to start fresh and build an amazing foundations and NEW marriage.
Coconut: you are right. It just feels so wrong to "turn my back on her" when she has been there for me in my lowest times over 16 years. I KNOW she still has feeling for me and it would be a shame to give up the bond, life and family we built over 16 years. I don't want to do a "tit for tat" thing either. I want to start fresh and build an amazing foundations and NEW marriage.
I get all of that, but understand that you CAN NOT rebuild a relationship with her when her mind is set on seeing what it is like with other people. You don't get to make that choice for her, she has to make it.
Until she makes that choice, if she ever does, STOP being there as her husband... immediately retreat to only opening communication with her when it's about logistics (house, kids, etc), only listen when she opens communications and validate her feelings; DO NOT share your feelings, she doesn't get to know about you when she's with someone else
She went beserk when you went out with your friend, she doesn't want to lose you while she's figuring out what she wants, but she also doesn't get to make that decision for you (I am NOT saying go date someone, but be social, enjoy your life and she doesn't get to know what's going on in your life).
and unless there is a underlying LEGAL need to divorce right now, I would postpone or cancel your petition for divorce until you really know what you want (don't text her and let her know, your doing it for you not to get a response from her). If she somehow finds out and asks you why, keep your response short and to the point, something like "Although I will not be in a open Marriage, I decided that a divorce isn't what I wanted right now".
No reason for a legal divorce but why wait is my thought process? If not now, when? Everyday she continues the affair and "me allowing it to happen" makes me weaker. Doesn't it make me strong to file for divorce and show that I will not tolerate this? I understand detaching is in theory to show this but doesn't a divorce speak louder?
Detachment:
Today I will commit myself to detachment. I will allow myself and those around me the freedom to be as they are. I will not rigidly impose my idea of how things should be. I will not force solutions on problems, thereby creating new problems. I will participate in everything with detached involvement.
Today I will factor in uncertainty as an essential ingredient of my experience. In my willingness to accept uncertainty, solutions will spontaneously emerge out of the problem, out of the confusion, disorder, and chaos. The more uncertain things seem to be, the more secure I will feel, because uncertainty is my path to freedom. Through the wisdom of uncertainty, I will find my security.
I will step into the field of all possibilities and anticipate the excitement that can occur when I remain open to infinity of choices. When I step into the field of all possibilities, I will experience all the fun, adventure, magic, and mystery of life.
Just a quick update after our 5 hour date last night. I have detached...not initiated anything. She texted asking what time i can pick up our son and I responded with a time only. No asking about how her day was, etc... Day 1 almost in the books.
First, detachment is going to take longer than 3 weeks. You still have work to do to wrap her head around what it mean.
Second, you are using filing for D to snap her out of her funk. It could possibly have an affect on her. Even if it is manipulation that might backfire.
Third, if she decides to work on your M/R, it will need to be taken slowly. Neither of you have the tools to get over this yet.
I think you are confusing "pursuing and "detaching".
First, detachment is going to take longer than 3 weeks. You still have work to do to wrap your head around what it mean.
Correction in bold.
There is detachment and rejection.
Detachment is misunderstood, it means letting go of the outcome.
It does not mean rejection, dismissal or ignoring.
None of those things is appropriate.
Neither is persuing or being plan B.
I get that LRT is likely inappropriate in your sitch as is being unfriendly.
However if you keep on as you are, that's not attractive. Your WW needs to know you are not plan B.
You do this by your actions as much as anything.
Detach.
V
No reason for a legal divorce but why wait is my thought process? If not now, when? Everyday she continues the affair and "me allowing it to happen" makes me weaker. Doesn't it make me strong to file for divorce and show that I will not tolerate this? I understand detaching is in theory to show this but doesn't a divorce speak louder?
Do you want to be divorced from her???
If not, then aren't you, and your feelings a pretty dam good reason to wait? It doesn't make you strong to get divorced, divorce is easy, it's just paperwork..
Now let me ask you, why do you think getting divorced right now is good?
What if.... I semi-detach and see what happens in the next 2.5 weeks and then if that doesn't work, then detach?
sellout,
I'm sorry to be the one to deliver the news, but semi-detaching requires at least three weeks.
Three weeks but only if your fully focused on not completely detaching... If your only partially focused on whether or not to be detached, then it could take much longer and it is very hard to track what percent detached you actually are... it's all very confusing.
It just feels so wrong to "turn my back on her" when she has been there for me in my lowest times over 16 years.
Tell me when your lowest time in 16 years is/was.. I know the answer, and it's not turning your back on anyone or anything... It's about being able to see what's going on and realizing the only thing you can control is the actions that you do, or don't, make.
Detachment is about your emotions NOT being dictated by any action she takes. If your watching a water polo game with two teams you've never heard of (I'm assuming you don't watch water polo), is there any play or foul that anyone on either team could make that would make you react with a negative or positive reaction.
No play matters, because your detached from them, the actions they take Will Not affect your emotions.
That is detachment. You wouldn't be overly nice, mean, or anything else but yourself if you met that team, that is being detached, as if.
I like that metaphor Coconut.
For me it's fine if x, ok if y, and likely to be Z!
So fine if she comes back, ok if she doesn't, and perhaps there will be no movement either way.
Perhaps
Ok if we D, fine if we piece, most likely limbo for a while which is sensible.
V
Well she is still in the affair with OM. She is sleeping at his house nightly and coming home around 6:30am to help get our son ready for school. She is fully admitting everything and not hiding anything. So, as hard as this is to say this is what I have decided (for the moment). I feel the easy way out is to continue with the divorce, give up and move on with my life. The hard part is to fight with all my being to show her the love, respect, compassion that she showed me over the years. If I continuing to get rejected, then so be it. Whats the worst that can happen...i will get the divorce anyways. It it works then I get my wife and family back. I plan to not mention anything about the ongoing affair and be completely positive and show her that I am the man she always wanted and the father i need to be to our son. With that said, I will detach and do the 180's in the process. Thoughts? Am I off here on my approach?
In my opinion, the divorce is your choice.
But to me, this feels like incredible cake eating. What would be her incentive to end the affair if she gets all of the benefits of the marriage still?
Im not necessarily saying that divorce is the best way to end the affair. And Im certainly not suggesting that you need to give up and move on. But, in my opinion, allowing her to come and go as she pleases in your marital home while just spending nights with OM doesnt seem like a bad deal for her. What are your boundaries? Why does she get to spend every night out of the house while you act as her babysitter?
Again, this is just my opinion, but it feels like you are placing yourself as her Plan B. If the affair fizzles out, then youll wait around and pick up the scraps. Again, I dont see any reason for her to choose Plan B if it's always there.
If the affair fizzles out, then youll wait around and pick up the scraps.
This statement alone speaks volumes on the ridiculousness of things. It's crazy that this is even on the table for some...
so if at the end of the day I still want to save things as crazy as it sounds, what is my next move?
so if at the end of the day I still want to save things as crazy as it sounds, what is my next move?
There is nothing you can do. You can't beg, plead, say you are going to change, ask, whatever...so that leaves nothing left. What is best for you is to become the best you can. Nothing else will work. Nothing. Remember the butterfly analogy I've used so much on here? Just in case you've missed it:
Think of your ex (and to some extent, your marriage) as a butterfly. Now, what happens if you squeeze a butterfly in your hand? It kills it, right? Same with your ex...you try to hold on too tightly for fear of losing her (newsflash, already have), then that's just going to push her that much further away. So, what do you do with butterflies? You open your hand so they can fly away...and you must provide a safe hand (place) for that butterfly to land again. If, and only if, she chooses to re-alight in your hand, then she will do under her own choice. If she doesn't, then you need to be prepared for life without her. The key is to fully let her go. Treat yourself - and live - as if she never existed. That's all you can do.
thats my plan. i do plan to let her go but not let go of the idea of things maybe working out one day down the road. I will continue to live in the home, do my fatherly duties as well as take care of the home which is an asset that if things dont work out will sell one day. I will mow the yards, do the dishwasher when it needs to be done, etc... I will not be taken advantage of but will be fair since both of us still own the home and the responsibility. I wont shower her with gifts or compliments but will be nice and respectful. sound like a plan? other ideas?
one other question, I am currently sleeping on the couch. Should I move back into the bedroom (even though she sleeps at OM house most nights)? I dont want to come across as overbearing or pushy.
so if at the end of the day I still want to save things as crazy as it sounds, what is my next move?
I'd start by arranging a parenting plan. There is no excuse for you to be the only parent home with your son. Letting her come and go as she pleases is ridiculous cake eating. Why should she only be a parent when it's convenient for her?
Then, Id take your master bedroom back. Why on earth are you sleeping on the couch? Your W is out sleeping in another man's bed and you are letting *HER* have the bedroom? Forget that. Id boot her stuff out of there.
You are not going to win her back playing nicely nicely and letting her walk all over you. Have you read any of Sandi's threads on WWs?
Question: during the detaching process, do I pay attention to her, look at her like a woman, compliment her, make her feel special, alive? Or just ignore her and only answer questions she has for me?
Question: during the detaching process, do I pay attention to her, look at her like a woman, compliment her, make her feel special, alive? Or just ignore her and only answer questions she has for me?
Treat her like a colleague at work who you kinda know and sometimes say hi to, but aren't close with. Be nice and polite, but brief with your conversations. If that colleague has a new hair style, maybe you'd say something nice. If that colleague wears a revealing shirt, you probably won't say anything.
I like that analogy. Part of the reason i am on the fence is because one of the main issues of the years is that I didn't pay enough attention to her and the attention I did pay was negative. So obviously, no negative attention and maybe a sliding scale approach on the communication.
Then, Id take your master bedroom back. Why on earth are you sleeping on the couch? Your W is out sleeping in another man's bed and you are letting *HER* have the bedroom? Forget that. Id boot her stuff out of there.
^^^^Absolutely!
Update: she went over there again last night, this time after his kids were in bed and sleeping. Came back home at 6:30am. I hit my breaking point and its OVER. Court on April 5th and I am taking her to the cleaners. Enough said!!!
Update: she went over there again last night, this time after his kids were in bed and sleeping. Came back home at 6:30am. I hit my breaking point and its OVER. Court on April 5th and I am taking her to the cleaners. Enough said!!!
Well, the wait as long as I can plan went off the rails quickly.
That said, I dont fault you for filing. I think its disrespectful to your family to be cake eating to this degree.
I would caution you that just because you are divorced legally doesnt mean anything as far as detachment is concerned. So what will you do to recover from this in a healthy way?
I held on for almost 3 months of her cake eating. Literally watching her walk across the street each night and come back in the mornings. I am shocked I lasted this long. The crazy thing is, after I hired my attorney and showed her the paperwork, she spent the night at home for the first time in a while. Coincidence? Maybe.. Should be a interesting road from here on out. My focus is on my son, and giving him the most comfortable/stable environment. Weird how your feelings shift daily. I was so angry and mad yesterday and now I am calm and somewhat relived. Tomorrow I may feel different. Is this normal?
Yes and will continue until the court date is set and then again until you go to court - unless you do mediation. And, when you are divorced, it will feel so liberating...
So its been a few days and wanted to provide an update and get some opinions. As a reminder, I hired my attorney for the divorce last week. To my knowledge, she has yet to hire an attorney. We are both still living in the family home and she is walking across the street to spend the night with the OM. She waits until our son goes to sleep and then comes back in before he wakes. We have said very few words to each other over the last 5 days and even fewer texts. I have since started staying away from the home more and becoming a little more "unpredictable". I am still being a good father as that comes first. During this time I have dropped about 20 lbs, and have become more attractive. As we all know the divorce will most likely take at least 6 months to finalize. Any recommendations during this time? She has obviously fallen head over heels for this man but do we all think she is truly happy or is this her way of coping and getting away from the situation? Will her relationship with him last? As much as it embarrasses me to say, TODAY...if she were to come to me and say she broke it off with OM and wants to work on our marriage, I would say yes. But in the meantime, I have to act and get it into my head that day will NEVER come and I am moving on to the next chapter. I really want to see other women to get a jump start on this process and honestly to show wife that I am capable of getting another woman with no problem. Is this a bad idea? Should I hold off on dating until divorce is final or start now. Would't wife see me as more attractive if she found out I found a new little hottie? Thoughts???
Should I hold off on dating until divorce is final or start now.
That is a no-brainer. Hold off.
Would't wife see me as more attractive if she found out I found a new little hottie?
No.
I really want to see other women to get a jump start on this process and honestly to show wife that I am capable of getting another woman with no problem. Is this a bad idea? Should I hold off on dating until divorce is final or start now. Would't wife see me as more attractive if she found out I found a new little hottie? Thoughts???
It really would not be kind to drag a third party into your situation just to use them to make W jealous. What if that person ended up having real feelings for you? You can GAL, do your own thing, and let W wonder. Mystery is attractive. But complicating your situation with another woman at this juncture is probably not a good idea.
Yeah, you guys are right. Keeping it a mystery is probably the best. So, is she truly in love or coping in your opinion? The OM is is 6 years older than me, not attractive, doesn't make as much $ etc... of course none of these things matter but what gives?
You need to work on yourself first and foremost. You can read back through your thread and see the emotional roller coaster you are on.
My suggestion would be to make progress to become emotionally stable. I would also suggest that you not jump right back into a relationship with your W so quickly. Reason being, is because neither of you are prepared to have a healthy relationship and you will just cycle back to destructive patterns.
Lastly, please don't start dating. There are many reasons not to date.
Thank you LITB. Great advice. The crazy thing on all of this, is that I would be giving the same advice to people if i were removed from the situation. Crazy how emotions cloud your decision making.
She has obviously fallen head over heels for this man but do we all think she is truly happy or is this her way of coping and getting away from the situation? Will her relationship with him last? As much as it embarrasses me to say, TODAY...if she were to come to me and say she broke it off with OM and wants to work on our marriage, I would say yes.
2x4 [ON] OFF
Why does it matter if she is truly happy or not? The truth is, the marriage doesn't mean anything to her - nothing at all. And before anyone talks mindreading, if it did then she wouldn't be sleeping with another. Period. It may last, it may not. Doesn't really make any difference.
Use this time to work on you. And you only. Because that's what is really important - not her. YOU.
Now, let me ask a direct question - why do you want someone back who so blatantly disrespected you and the marriage? Also, lets say, just for sh*ts and giggles, if she does want to try again...what would cross your mind if she goes for an extra-long walk? Or is late "shopping?" Or traffic? Would a smidgeon of doubt cross your mind? If so, then that is very telling.
Maybe the real thing we should examine is our own selfish reason...
2x4 ON [OFF]
Not be blunt or come across as an a**, so don't take it that way. Just providing a different perspective.
So, is she truly in love or coping in your opinion? The OM is is 6 years older than me, not attractive, doesn't make as much $ etc... of course none of these things matter but what gives?
If I were a betting man, I'd bet her relationship with OM will fall apart at some point.
Ultimately, you need to get yourself to your healthy and happy place independent of her. Once you get there, then things will be more clear and your choices won't be made from a place of emotional fog.
I would document the days that she is spending overnight at OM's. I think this could work in your favor in custody discussions.
Jeep74 - you are exactly right. However...I was not a great husband for 16 years. She put up with a lot of sh*t from me. Is this an excuse for her doing what she is doing right now...of course not. But the thing neutral parties fail to consider in my opinion is that over the course of 16 years, there was a TON of good times and a special bond created and maintained. If there was ever a chance of things working out (highly unlikely at this point), trust would be a MAJOR issue that would have to be worked on very slowly with a TON of boundaries put into place by both of us. Again, probably living in a pipe dream but who knows...crazier things have happened.
I would document the days that she is spending overnight at OM's. I think this could work in your favor in custody discussions.
Definitely helped me out in court.
What about documentation with photos/videos? I can literally film her walking to/from.
She is now a "streetwalker"!!! Ha!
Jeep74 - you are exactly right. However...I was not a great husband for 16 years. She put up with a lot of sh*t from me. Is this an excuse for her doing what she is doing right now...of course not. But the thing neutral parties fail to consider in my opinion is that over the course of 16 years, there was a TON of good times and a special bond created and maintained. If there was ever a chance of things working out (highly unlikely at this point), trust would be a MAJOR issue that would have to be worked on very slowly with a TON of boundaries put into place by both of us. Again, probably living in a pipe dream but who knows...crazier things have happened.
Whether you were a great husband or not is irrelevant. There are only two valid reasons for divorce: Adultery or abuse.
Pipe dreams are OK as long as you know they are just that and don't bet your future on it. You need to worry about you and your kid. Nothing else matters.
What about documentation with photos/videos? I can literally film her walking to/from.
She is now a "streetwalker"!!! Ha!
Only if you have photo proof of them together.
What about documentation with photos/videos? I can literally film her walking to/from.
She is now a "streetwalker"!!! Ha!
Only if you have photo proof of them together.
I would confirm with your lawyer. But if she isnt spending the night with her kid now, why should she deserve to later?
Just emailed my lawyer asking for his advice. Stay tuned...
Just a few min ago my wife calls my cell phone which she hasn't done with probably 2 weeks. I didn't answer. I texted back a few min later saying that I was in/out of meeting the majority of the day. She said, thats fine, just call me when you can. I text back saying, no, i dont have much of a desire to talk on the phone and we can handle everything through texts. She didn't respond yet. Good/bad? Thoughts?
Just emailed my lawyer asking for his advice. Stay tuned...
Just a few min ago my wife calls my cell phone which she hasn't done with probably 2 weeks. I didn't answer. I texted back a few min later saying that I was in/out of meeting the majority of the day. She said, thats fine, just call me when you can. I text back saying, no, i dont have much of a desire to talk on the phone and we can handle everything through texts. She didn't respond yet. Good/bad? Thoughts?
Good call by Kaizen on obtaining proof regarding your W.
I think you are fine with the response. Try to keep the emotions out of your responses. That would be my only suggestion.
Time to start a new thread.
Yeah, you guys are right. Keeping it a mystery is probably the best. So, is she truly in love or coping in your opinion? The OM is is 6 years older than me, not attractive, doesn't make as much $ etc... of course none of these things matter but what gives?
Love? Doubtful. Affairs are built on fantasy and infatuation rather than reality. When you've been unhappy in a relationship for a long time, having another person come along who expresses interest in you and treats you kindly feels rather intoxicating. But real love...the kind that washes your dirty laundry and takes care of you when you're sick and is your co-partner in building a home, paying bills and raising a family...that takes time. The reason that so many relationships that started as an affair end is because when they try to take that fantasy into reality, the infatuation can't hold up. I am currently reading a book that states over 80 percent of marriages between affair partners end in another divorce...and those stats are the "success stories" of affairs that actually make it to marriage. So realistically, the chances that your W has found her "soul mate" in the neighbor are really very slim.
That said, your focus right now should be on getting yourself to a healthy place so you will be OK with or without her.
Why is it so many are quick to jump on affairs as fantasy? Sure, maybe some are. Maybe some aren't. Maybe the cheater just wants out and doesn't really care? Maybe they are looking for a f**k buddy? The reason is irrelevant. The elephant that no one is speaking of is that affairs happen, unless the cheater is a whore, is because the cheaters are done with the marriage and don't care about their former spouse. I use the word former, because in reality, that's what it is.
I'm not trying to be an a**, but just wondering.
Quick update: as many of you know, I have been living under the same roof as wife as she has been leaving each night, walking across the street and then coming home in the morning. Today I saw a post from her and the captions were as follows: rainbow after the storm, breath of fresh air, I think he loves me, food is the way to my heart, blessed. He had made her food and she posted this online for the world to see. This is where I lost it. I immediately drove home from work and packed my things. I will now be staying with my parents until divorce is final. Again, she may/may not be living in a fantasy world, but at this point it doesn't matter. She will now have to take care of yards, pool, animals, not be able to walk across the street cause I son will be sleeping over there, etc... I should have never come back in the first place. Ego driven move and now I am back at square one. It was only when I had moved out the first time and created that space that she texted me that she missed me, and went went out on our date, etc... Will that happen again this time? Probably not and not sure I even want it to. Today was certainly a rough day but now focus is shifted to me.
Do not leave the marital home! Ask her to leave!
Do not leave the marital home! Ask her to leave!
Seriously. You can be seen as abandoning in the court system. If you want any amount of custody of your kid, you should not go ANYWHERE.
Instead, you should stop looking at her facebook and start DETACHING.
I hear you guys but this is the ONLY option at this point. I haven't "officially" moved out. I am jut staying somewhere else as she has been doing all along. No difference.
I hear you guys but this is the ONLY option at this point. I haven't "officially" moved out. I am jut staying somewhere else as she has been doing all along. No difference.
Im not a lawyer; Id check with yours. To me, this sounds like a dangerous choice for possible future custody negotiations.
Can't leave, dude. Court may consider this abandonment and it will hurt you in a custody case.
as stated before, toss her out. Change the locks when she leaves tonight. go to a home depot and look for "kiwk lock." they come with keys and everything. easy switch.
New thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2737229#Post2737229