Time for a new thread. Previous thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2730676&page=1I'll give you credit for admitting your changes are motivated to change your W's mind. I will still hammer you to make the changes for yourself. The changes are more likely to stick if you do them for yourself.
But they aren't just motivated to change her mind. They are motivated to benefit me whether she comes back or not
and change her mind.
Have you considered volunteer work? Serving at a soup kitchen for example. I believe when we are busy helping others, it helps us put our focus elsewhere. Additionally, you will be able to form new friendship.
That's a good idea.
I am a believer myself. It was incredibly helpful in my growth. Again, do it for yourself. Not to see your W at church.
I am doing it for myself. I considered going before she had even told me she went there, not expecting that I would see her at all. The church is all the way across town from her now. Her possibly being there is just a bonus, and her seeing me making improvements is necessary for her to know that I am making improvements. MWD says it's important to be seen making changes.
Thank you for your responses. If you have anything to add about how your fear caused you problems, I'd love to hear it.
Just received separation papers. Has anyone here ever reconciled after that?
Just received separation papers. Has anyone here ever reconciled after that?
Yes.
I'll tell you what. I had the same fear as you. If I didn't do what made my W happy, then I feared it would push her further away. I was pursuing and pleading with her to reconsider. I agreed to allow her to move 1100 miles away from me with our children, because I was too caught up trying to appease her. And I was misled by an attorney, but that was completely on me.
That's the readers digest version. You can go back and read my first couple of threads. The second time it happened, I was better prepared on how to handle things.
The scripts for both WAS/LBS are pretty common. Things changed the most for me when I was away from the boards and not obsessed with my sitch. It is an amazing feeling to know that things are going to turn out alright no matter the outcome with my W. As a matter of fact, I had accepted that my M was over and life was still going to be beautiful.
Happy and confident are attractive. Get there and the rest will take care of itself.
It is an amazing feeling to know that things are going to turn out alright no matter the outcome with my W.
Hopefully I will get there.
I don't know what to do other than work on me, not pursue her, and hope that she is just having some sort of a crazy emotional event, that she will hopefully return from. Or that the high of any affair she may have been in will dissipate.
Hopefully I will get there.
I don't know what to do other than work on me, not pursue her, and hope that she is just having some sort of a crazy emotional event, that she will hopefully return from. Or that the high of any affair she may have been in will dissipate.
You can get there if you choose to get there. I'm sure you are familiar with that old Nike commercial, Just Do It!! That's what you need to do. There are dreamers and there are doers. Which one are you?
So get busy working on yourself and do not pursue as you already mentioned.
Thank you for the encouragement.
LITB, did you ever have separation with your wife, with a legal agreement? Were you ever financially separated and did she have the legal right to be with other men?
did you ever have separation with your wife, with a legal agreement? Were you ever financially separated and did she have the legal right to be with other men?
I can't answer for LITB, but in my state there is no legal separation agreement. I was strongly advised not to date anyone until my divorce was finalized...with strongly being the operative word.
If my wife actually did cheat on me and left me for the OM (I'm still trying to figure out what is going on), and if I took her back after she came to her senses, if she could get over her guilt and let me forgive her, my question is: can my family ever love her again?
I could love her because our love was so strong. She loved me so much and was so good to me. And I could love her because I know I made so many mistakes. I treated my wife the way I wanted to be treated, rather than how a wife needs to be treated, because I didn't know what I was doing. I also took her for granted, and didn't appreciate her the way that I should have, for some reason, maybe because of porn viewing, I don't know.
So, can the family of the LBS ever forgive a cheating spouse that comes back? What do you guys know about that?
If my wife actually did cheat on me and left me for the OM (I'm still trying to figure out what is going on), and if I took her back after she came to her senses, if she could get over her guilt and let me forgive her, my question is: can my family ever love her again?
That's an awful lot of if's and hypotheticals. First and foremost, it may be a good idea to actually find out...some won't like this idea, but gut feelings are usually correct. There are many ways to find out, but the question is, if you do find out what is your next step? Are you OK just sitting on the sidelines until (or IF) she comes to her "senses?" And lets say she is in an affair, can you fully trust her again? I ask because even if there is a shred of doubt, then that speaks volumes...what do you do if she "gets caught up shopping" or something like that and doesn't come home for a while? For me, cheating is the deal breaker...you know the old adage, once a cheater...
I could love her because our love was so strong. She loved me so much and was so good to me. And I could love her because I know I made so many mistakes. I treated my wife the way I wanted to be treated, rather than how a wife needs to be treated, because I didn't know what I was doing. I also took her for granted, and didn't appreciate her the way that I should have, for some reason, maybe because of porn viewing, I don't know.
I'm seeing reasons, or rather excuses, here. Living in the past isn't beneficial to one's mental health. Ask me how I know... Much easier said than done, you need to live as if she doesn't exist. On any level.
So, can the family of the LBS ever forgive a cheating spouse that comes back? What do you guys know about that?
Some may, and some won't. She would have to prove herself above and beyond. And if any feel about cheating as I do, then there is your answer.
My wife told me in the past that she could forgive me for cheating on her. This was just early relationship talk. She didn't indicate she had any reason to believe I might or had cheated. I don't remember what I told her in response to that. I probably said something like, "I might could forgive, but it's such an extreme situation that I can't imagine being in. It's hard to determine how I would actually react, if it actually happened to me and I was experiencing the pain of it."
She told me a few weeks ago that one reason "we're over" is because she said I wouldn't be able to forgive her and she wouldn't be able to forgive me (for my lack of trying, basically). It has made me wonder what exactly I'd need to forgive her for. It would seem that most people wouldn't consider leaving someone an unforgivable hurt. So, it was another reason to make me wonder whether she has had an affair.
So, can the family of the LBS ever forgive a cheating spouse that comes back? What do you guys know about that?
Some may, and some won't. She would have to prove herself above and beyond. And if any feel about cheating as I do, then there is your answer.
Did your wife cheat on you, Jeep? If so, I guess you didn't try to reconcile. (?)
Did your wife cheat on you, Jeep? If so, I guess you didn't try to reconcile. (?)
Yes, she did. It wouldn't have mattered if I had tried to reconcile or not, as she was past done. As you are aware of her/my story, there were so many things from her past that made her run. Long story. I know that one should ever expect an apology, but she never did - for what she did to me or to the OMs family.
you know the old adage, once a cheater...
Just because there is a saying supporting an idea, that doesn't mean it's true. I do, of course, believe that one should be very cautious about continuing/reconciling a relationship with someone that has cheated. I think Sandi gives some good guidelines to handle that. But I am just beginning to read up on how to continue after an affair.
Of course it isn't always true. Not always.
Sandi gives awesome advice! I love reading her stuff. At the end of the day it comes down to if/how/would you trust that person again.
I think I have good reason to trust her again, if she in fact did cheat.
LITB, did you ever have separation with your wife, with a legal agreement? Were you ever financially separated and did she have the legal right to be with other men?
I was separated from my W with a divorce agreement. I live in a no fault state, so the state doesn't concern itself with affairs.
FWIW, some of my family were more forgiving than others. It wasn't until this past thanksgiving when we went around the table to share what we were thankful for, that my W apologized to my whole family for what she did. That was a profound moment. It takes a lot of courage and humility to admit your faults. There was a shift in forgiveness for the last of the holdouts.
For you right now, there is a ton of work to do before you get to that stage. Why worry about tomorrow, when there is enough to worry about today? What have you been doing with your time?
you know the old adage, once a cheater...
Just because there is a saying supporting an idea, that doesn't mean it's true. I do, of course, believe that one should be very cautious about continuing/reconciling a relationship with someone that has cheated. I think Sandi gives some good guidelines to handle that. But I am just beginning to read up on how to continue after an affair.
Hello WshIKnw,
Yes, it is smart to be cautious, but there is more to it than that. There is a big difference between moving forward and moving on. Moving forward, with the right support, addresses the things that you have control over, yourself. Recognizing what you can do differently to move forward in a positive way is very empowering.
Take some small steps to focus on yourself. Stop focusing so much on her and what she is doing/thinking. Trying to mind read will drive you bananas and keep your wheels spinning.
Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
I was separated from my W with a divorce agreement. I live in a no fault state, so the state doesn't concern itself with affairs.
FWIW, some of my family were more forgiving than others. It wasn't until this past thanksgiving when we went around the table to share what we were thankful for, that my W apologized to my whole family for what she did. That was a profound moment. It takes a lot of courage and humility to admit your faults. There was a shift in forgiveness for the last of the holdouts.
That's really great.
For you right now, there is a ton of work to do before you get to that stage. Why worry about tomorrow, when there is enough to worry about today? What have you been doing with your time?
Ton of work? I feel like there is nothing to do but sit and wait. I mean, the best thing I've done is try to work out and gain weight, but it's so hard to want to workout and especially hard to want to eat when she does things that are very disheartening for me, like sending me a separation agreement last weekend, which is a request to basically split up all the property and be able to date and have sex with who she wants. Yesterday, I noticed that she deleted our wedding pictures from her Facebook page, and she pruned other mostly random pictures off of her page. I know at least one was a picture with me in it (aside from wedding pictures).
The last contact I had with her was Monday of last week. She asked me something about her bills. The day before that, she visited, and all was very cordial.
I spend a whole lot of time wondering whether I'm making the right choice by not contacting her. Does not pursuing mean not contacting her at all? I'm probably going to call the DB counselors because I'm so afraid I'm dealing with a woman who isn't going to respond well to no contact. The problem is that if she is indeed seeing someone, which seems highly likely, given everything I've seen so far, and how quickly and steadily she has moved through this process, there seems to be nothing I can do but wait to see whether she ever contacts me with any sort of desire to come back. All I seem to be able to do is to try to work on me. One of her biggest complaints was that I didn't want to go out much and socialize much. I was friendly with a lot of people, but didn't have friends that I hung out with regularly. She was my friend (other than my family). She was my best friend. This is all so crazy, because she and I were so tight. This makes no sense.
To conclude with what I have been doing with my time: I've been working out and trying to gain weight. I've at least returned to my pre-BD weight, but I want to gain more than that, but lately I have had issues doing that. Other than that, I spend a lot of time talking with family, and some time talking with co-workers to help me vent and feel better. I'm trying to make friends that I actually have something to do with outside of work. I made one friend who has been divorced for 3 months or so, but he doesn't seem as interested now in hanging out. I suppose it's because talking about what I'm going through might be a downer for him and remind him of what he just went through over the last year. I really probably haven't been doing as much as I should with my time, but it's hard to GAL when you are starting out with no friends. W complained that I didn't have friends, and left me with none. She was my friend, and I was happy with that. So, it's kind of hard to GAL with that as a starting point.
WshIKnw,
I am not one to serve up 2x4s, but you need one about now. Sit and wait? If you take that approach, you can chalk it up as over. Hmmm...inactive or proactive. I'll take proactive all day.
You are so focused on your W, that you can't see the forest for the trees. If all you talk about is your sitch, people will not want to be around the negativity all day long. It gets old. Additionally if things shift with your W, all this talking to other people does not help you reconcile. Especially with your family.
You want to get to your happy place INDEPENDENT of your W. Your happiness is YOUR responsibility. Happy and confident people are attractive. Do things that make you happy. Get out of your comfort zone and experience what life has to offer.
Please describe to me what an attractive person looks like. Traits and such. After you do that exercise. You bust your behind to become that person.
And here is another note for you. When your sitch takes very little space in your thoughts and you are just enjoying life, you have arrived. It takes work to get there. Not sitting and waiting.
You want to get to your happy place INDEPENDENT of your W. Your happiness is YOUR responsibility. Happy and confident people are attractive. Do things that make you happy. Get out of your comfort zone and experience what life has to offer.
Please describe to me what an attractive person looks like. Traits and such. After you do that exercise. You bust your behind to become that person.
An attractive person looks healthy, neat, and clean. I am underweight, skinny, and pale. I should probably cut my hair, too, even though I have had a ponytail for about 15 years, and my wife has always known me with it. She was interested in me cutting it, but was scared she wouldn't like it.
An attractive person is happy, friendly, and outgoing. I am usually sad now, and not very outgoing.
An attractive person has multiple interests. I have few interests.
An attractive person has friends. I don't have any, really.
^^^^^
All that you wrote is work that needs to get done. Make them your goals. Start with small attainable goals. Perhaps use a calendar to fill in your GAL activities.
I suggest to cut your hair. You've mentioned it more than once. Do it for yourself. It doesn't matter what your W thinks right now. She has her own work to do. Get a head start.
Wife just blocked me, and everyone in my circle apparently, from being able to see most of her stuff on her Facebook profile. Might as well just have unfriended us all. I haven't done anything to make her mad. I haven't even had contact with her since Monday of last week, before she did this. Though, I talked to her really quickly over text about lawyers, tonight, after seeing the FB change, and she didn't seem mad about anything. Sent me a picture of our (now, her) dog, without me requesting it. I can't believe how this girl just went from hot (well, warm) to cold so fast. No warnings with words ("I am reaching the end of my rope"), no ultimatums, no warnings with action (like leaving for a week), no second chance (I asked for that several times), nothing. Just made her heart turn to stone, and then left a few weeks later. Never seen her behave anything like this before. She always had a little temper, but d*mn. Not this.
Please help, whoever reads this.I just typed my wife a message, and it's so hard to not send it to her, because I've been doing no contact for at least 2 weeks, I believe, and things just keep going in the wrong direction. I just don't want to throw away an opportunity by just sitting back. What if no contact isn't working on her? I haven't reached out to her for reconciliation in many weeks. I have mostly told her the following things before, but I think this time I am stressing certain things more effectively, and maybe since I haven't been talking to her much lately, and haven't brought up our relationship in a long time, she will be more receptive to hear it. It's kind of a last ditch, "this is the main cause of our breakdown; it wasn't that hard to make things work", effort for reconciliation. I'm tired of sitting back, not making contact, and watching her continue towards ending things with me. I know it goes against the DB philosophy, but how do I know that the DB philosophy works on her? Here is the message:
Good morning, W. I was just thinking about that last time you came to me and complained about me not pursuing friends. If I had known that you were nearing the end of your rope with me, I'd have been saying, "Whoa! Okay! When can we go hang out with [Couple1_H], [Couple1_W], [Couple2_H], [Couple2_W]??" I just needed to know how important things like this were to you. I didn't know that, for whatever reasons. Dr. K, I believe, talked about needing to know how important requests were. I truly adored you, W, even though it didn't always completely show, in the everyday relationship because of how laid back people often get when relationships feel very stable and become routine. I would have been willing to do so, so much more for you and the relationship, if I had understood how badly you needed things. I wish so much that we had gone to marriage counseling and learned better how to communicate, before things got too bad. I could have learned how to better listen, and perhaps we could have both learned how to better reach each other. I think a whole lot of our problems were just based on misunderstanding. I was guilty of doing a ton of bad things, W. I know that. If I had understood how truly upset these things made you, and how much I was in danger of losing you, I would have been jumping to correct these things, and to make lasting changes. I truly loved you. Having you was the greatest thing that has ever happened to me. I would have been willing to do so much more, if I had truly understood how you felt about things. You told me a few weeks ago that we would never be able to forgive each other. You might not be able to ever forgive me for my wrongdoings in our marriage, but don't be so sure that I wouldn't be able to forgive you, for whatever you think I'd have to forgive, because a perfect marriage is just two imperfect people who refuse to give up on each other. Because our love and bond was so strong, and because of all the truly wonderful things that you brought into my life, I'd be willing to forgive a whole lot.
WshIKnw,
I'm going to probably go against everyone here as you'll probably get many "don't send it" responses. You see, in my case the techniques I learned here had the opposite effect on her...she ran even more, so-to-speak. It is what it is, though. On one hand, I'd say send it as your last ditch shot...however, you may want change the past tense to present in the "I love you" parts. Just sayin. In reality, what would it hurt? We have all wanted - or actually did - to send the final shot. Now, the flip side - sending it pursuing, no doubt about that. You've heard plenty on that here so I won't go into it.
What it boils down, is will it work in terms of having an affect on her and maybe change her mind/thinking? Only she can answer that... She may very well come back and say "its too little, too late" as my ex did when I sent her one. She very well could throw it back in your face, so if you do intend to send it just be prepared.
Or, she may actually start thinking. The unfortunate gift we have been given is not having the ability to see into the future. No one can answer the questions you pose save your wife. The question that now remains is will you do it? There are only two possible outcomes and you must be prepared for each.
If it were me, I'd send it. What have you got to lose?
Jeep, maybe you are right about switching to present tense on those "I loved/adored you"s.
Jeep, maybe you are right about switching to present tense on those "I loved/adored you"s.
Going back, maybe find a way to include both?
Now, that's just my advice - take it for what its worth.
I added to the end of the message:
I don't want you to see reconciliation as a waste of money
that you have put into leaving me. If we reconciled, I'd be willing to pay you most of what you have spent on leaving me, if not perhaps all of what you have spent.
If it were me, I wouldn't put any of that in there. Because, if it does go to divorce, she has it in writing and will be used against you.
And, second, why would you want to pay her for what was her choice? Not a good idea.
And, second, why would you want to pay her for what was her choice? Not a good idea.
To incentivize, and to take ownership in being partly to blame for her leaving.
I don't understand how the court could use it against me.
To incentivize, and to take ownership in being partly to blame for her leaving.
Offering money, in her eyes, would be like paying her to come back. Not a good idea. It just screams of begging.
And the courts, well, are very unpredictable. They could very well take it as an admission of money owed. Talk with an atty about that one. I, for one, would never put any money talk in writing.
Offering money, in her eyes, would be like paying her to come back. Not a good idea. It just screams of begging.
Yeah. I wondered about that some, myself. Thanks for your advice.
And the courts, well, are very unpredictable. They could very well take it as an admission of money owed. Talk with an atty about that one. I, for one, would never put any money talk in writing.
I just thought I made it clear that the money would be paid only on condition of reconciliation. So, I don't see how the courts could spin that during a divorce. But you might be right. That would be ridiculous if she tried to get me to pay for separation, because I was offering it on condition of reconciliation.
I just thought I made it clear that the money would be paid only on condition of reconciliation
= same as begging. Don't do it.
= same as begging. Don't do it.
You are sometimes so sure of what to do. Why aren't I? Am I just clueless, or am I in a fog of emotions because my woman of 10 years has been slipping away from me since the end of November?
You are sometimes so sure of what to do. Why aren't I? Am I just clueless, or am I in a fog of emotions because my woman of 10 years has been slipping away from me since the end of November?
I wouldn't say that I am sure... I'm just speaking from personal experience. You are in a fog. I was there and it wasn't pretty. Only when I stepped out of it and saw things for what they were was I able to reach those conclusions.
No one wants to lose their spouse in the way we have. No one. We grasp at any straw hoping. We (I know I have) come up with the craziest ideas that, while they make sense to us, will end up being a total failure and more often than not will backfire. Been there, done that. The sad truth is that by the time they reach the BD point - and especially affairs - they are well past done and have moved on. The brutal and unfortunate truth.
Hang in there, you'll learn just as I did.
Glad you wrote that out, hope it feels better.
DO NOT SEND IT!
It will not accomplish what you are trying to do
Glad you wrote that out, hope it feels better.
DO NOT SEND IT!
It will not accomplish what you are trying to do
How do you know, Cadet? Sometimes the DB techniques don't work, right? Isn't it possible that the techniques just aren't effective on some people?
I wouldn't say that I am sure... I'm just speaking from personal experience. You are in a fog. I was there and it wasn't pretty. Only when I stepped out of it and saw things for what they were was I able to reach those conclusions.
No one wants to lose their spouse in the way we have. No one. We grasp at any straw hoping. We (I know I have) come up with the craziest ideas that, while they make sense to us, will end up being a total failure and more often than not will backfire. Been there, done that. The sad truth is that by the time they reach the BD point - and especially affairs - they are well past done and have moved on. The brutal and unfortunate truth.
Hang in there, you'll learn just as I did.
But sometimes it's not over. Didn't the same thing happen to LITB? But he reconciled twice and is with her now. If it's true that they are all done at BD point, why are we all here on this forum?
I happen to be on and agree with Cadet. You are seeking a magic bullet.
It isn't going to accomplish what you hope. I'm pretty sure you haven't read up on my sitch. It got worse, before it got better.
I've read some on your sitch. I'll read more.
But sometimes it's not over. Didn't the same thing happen to LITB? But he reconciled twice and is with her now. If it's true that they are all done at BD point, why are we all here on this forum?
Yes, sometimes they do come back. But we can't live our life on the hopes of them doing just that. Take my oft-used and well deserved butterfly analogy: think of your wife/marriage as the butterfly...if you squeeze a butterfly it will kill it, however if you open your hand and allow it to fly away, it may return to alight...or it may not. The gist is, we have to completely let them go. Completely.
They may return, or they may not. I'd venture to bet that a great many don't.
As for me, I'll repeat what the great Dawn70 said - I have too much pride and self respect to take someone back who cheated on me, lied about (lied multiple time over and over, even in MC), and tried to make me look like the bad guy in the whole situation, and who tried to blame me for it all. Never again.
"It's crazy to continue to do the same things hoping for different results." I guess that doesn't apply at this point in my situation, right?
My dad and stepmom who are on their 3rd and 2nd marriages, respectively, are very concerned that W thinks I don't care, when I'm making no contact. Maybe by doing things like blocking me and my family from being able to see her profile on FB, she is actually trying to get at me, and get me to pursue her? Who knows? She could entirely just be set on breaking up, and just be hiding things from me so that I will leave her alone and not be hurt by things she might post. This is the hardest thing ever.
How do you know, Cadet?
Sometimes the DB techniques don't work, right?
Isn't it possible that the techniques just aren't effective on some people?
I know because I have been here for almost 8 years reading hundreds of thousands of posts.
Knowledge is Power and my suggestion is to learn
as much as you can about the whys and how comes,
then you will understand it better.
DB does work, unless you decide that it won't.
But sometimes it's not over. Didn't the same thing happen to LITB? But he reconciled twice and is with her now. If it's true that they are all done at BD point, why are we all here on this forum?
Yes, there is always hope that it isn't over. However, I can only explain to you why I am here still. I know that after my W filed my M was over. The reason I'm still here is to help myself learn how to pick up the pcs and move on. There still are a great number of people that on this forum that have been through what I am currently going through and can offer sound advice on how to handle my current sitch. I have used what I have learned on this forum and in Michelle's books to better myself and it has made going through this ten times easier. I'm not going to lie and say everything is all peaches and cream, but at least I am not where I used to be a few months ago. Hang in there man...minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day.
As for me, I'll repeat what the great Dawn70 said - I have too much pride and self respect to take someone back who cheated on me, lied about (lied multiple time over and over, even in MC), and tried to make me look like the bad guy in the whole situation, and who tried to blame me for it all. Never again.
If my wife has cheated on me (with at least an EA), which I do suspect, I see someone who made a grave mistake, and turned into a monster of hate out of their own guilt and pain for what they did -- someone who desperately needs forgiveness and love, for their heart to heal, because she was such a loving woman for all those years, tried so hard to be a really good wife, and because she didn't get what she needed from me. It's often not all of the cheating spouse's fault when they cheat. Sometimes we lead them to it. Are they 100% to blame for making the choice? Sure, but who set them up to be vulnerable to outside interests? Who didn't give them what they needed -- keep the love meter full -- despite continuous complaints about not getting what they needed? I am learning a very brutal lesson on listening to a woman when she voices complaints or desires. My dad tried to give me that lesson years ago, but didn't stress it enough. I just saw complaining. I didn't see a wife who was falling out of the marriage. I saw a content, usually happy wife that still acted mostly normal -- still exchanged love and affection and loving words with me. And then, boom. Stone cold.
Yes, there is always hope that it isn't over. However, I can only explain to you why I am here still. I know that after my W filed my M was over. The reason I'm still here is to help myself learn how to pick up the pcs and move on. There still are a great number of people that on this forum that have been through what I am currently going through and can offer sound advice on how to handle my current sitch. I have used what I have learned on this forum and in Michelle's books to better myself and it has made going through this ten times easier. I'm not going to lie and say everything is all peaches and cream, but at least I am not where I used to be a few months ago. Hang in there man...minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day.
Great explanation. I'm here much as you. And I find that posting in others helps me, too.
It's often not all of the cheating spouse's fault when they cheat. Sometimes we lead them to it. Are they 100% to blame for making the choice?
Excuse me, but I will call BS on that one. That sounds like the WWS line. There is no way that we are responsible for those sort of actions. They know right from wrong and make the decision themselves. It's totally on their shoulders. Now, the breakdown of the marriage can be placed on ours, but not an affair. No way.
The thing is, sure we could have led to the death of the marriage. And we can lead the horse to the water, but we can't make them drink. They come to that decision all on their own. They will spin their poor judgment to make it look like its our fault, but its not. Not this time, sir.
But sometimes it's not over. Didn't the same thing happen to LITB? But he reconciled twice and is with her now. If it's true that they are all done at BD point, why are we all here on this forum?
Yes, there is always hope that it isn't over. However, I can only explain to you why I am here still. I know that after my W filed my M was over. The reason I'm still here is to help myself learn how to pick up the pcs and move on. There still are a great number of people that on this forum that have been through what I am currently going through and can offer sound advice on how to handle my current sitch. I have used what I have learned on this forum and in Michelle's books to better myself and it has made going through this ten times easier. I'm not going to lie and say everything is all peaches and cream, but at least I am not where I used to be a few months ago. Hang in there man...minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day.
^^^^^ This and also no matter what path you take forward you are going to be in a new relationship.
Whether that is with your ex-wife, stbxw or a new one.
Being here teaches you new things and what you have done wrong so you don't continue to make the same mistakes over and over again.
That is not what any of us want.
Right?
Yeah, I said the choice is all theirs, to cheat. But would they have been interested in making the choice, if they were getting what they needed at home? Which is on us. Some spouses get everything that they need at home, but cheat anyway. My wife was not getting everything she needed. I would argue with her when she'd come to me asking for things that I didn't really want to do. I wouldn't usually say no, but I'd defend my position. I had no idea that me sleeping in the other room during the week bothered her so much. I told her several times it was solely for the purpose of me sleeping better, because I would get woken up by her in the early morning and not be able to go back to sleep, but apparently she still felt rejected by it. Maybe she didn't believe me. She did say that she wondered what I was doing on the computer late at night. I told her. She later strongly wondered whether I was having cybersex (at least that's what the post-BD wife said, who is harder to trust).
You are making excuses where there are none to be made.
Quote:
It's often not all of the cheating spouse's fault when they cheat. Sometimes we lead them to it. Are they 100% to blame for making the choice?
Excuse me, but I will call BS on that one. That sounds like the WWS line. There is no way that we are responsible for those sort of actions. They know right from wrong and make the decision themselves. It's totally on their shoulders. Now, the breakdown of the marriage can be placed on ours, but not an affair. No way.
I would also have to disagree. It is not the fault of the LBS for our spouses to decide on cheating. Their actions may be the result of feeling underappreciated in the M, but it gives them no excuse to do what they did. My W tried blaming me for her actions and I would not stand for it. I told her that I was sorry for my shortcomings in our M, but what she did is inexcusable and she is to blame for that. It takes two to make a M work and by having an A she was not working on the M at all. They can't blame us to make themselves feel better about their choices they made.
If the only reason a wife cheats is because she wasn't getting what she needed in the marriage, and if it was the H's fault that she wasn't getting what she needed, how could the H not be partially at fault? Whether the H chooses to take any blame or not for his wife cheating, he better make d*mn sure he avoids neglecting his women in the future, if he was guilty of neglecting his wife, that's all I'm saying. If I lose my wife for good because of this, I want to learn as much as I can from this and not make the same mistakes again.
Is a bartender responsible for drunk driving?
Please don't anyone take this as me arguing with you and being disrespectful. I'm just really scared, and just want to feel confident that I'm making the right decisions. Let's say DB works X% of the time, and doesn't work Y% of the time. Why doesn't it work for those in the Y%? Could it be because the techniques just don't work on a certain set of people? Jeep says the techniques didn't work on his wife, that they made his situation worse. I'm so concerned that some people need attention from time to time, when we are supposed to be doing no contact. How do we know NC works on everyone? I am a H accused of being neglectful. I can have solace in the fact (even though it may have been a mistake) that I have already pursued her a lot, through the month of December and some in January. So, if she needed pursuit, she got it then and could have responded more positively to it, but didn't. I just worry that at some point, some sort of pursuit is needed from me to her. What if she thinks I'm okay with all of this, that the feelings are mutual? So, why not just go ahead and end it all and go our separate ways? How is that helping my cause?
Is a bartender responsible for drunk driving?
Aren't they often required to not give more drinks to someone who is clearly wasted and is planning to drive home? Maybe it varies by state. I think they are required to monitor the people they are surviving. If they see a drunk guy go get in a vehicle, they are likely obligated to try to stop him, or call the police.
Please don't anyone take this as me arguing with you and being disrespectful. I'm just really scared, and just want to feel confident that I'm making the right decisions. Let's say DB works X% of the time, and doesn't work Y% of the time. Why doesn't it work for those in the Y%? Could it be because the techniques just don't work on a certain set of people? Jeep says the techniques didn't work on his wife, that they made his situation worse. I'm so concerned that some people need attention from time to time, when we are supposed to be doing no contact. How do we know NC works on everyone? I am a H accused of being neglectful. I can have solace in the fact (even though it may have been a mistake) that I have already pursued her a lot, through the month of December and some in January. So, if she needed pursuit, she got it then and could have responded more positively to it, but didn't. I just worry that at some point, some sort of pursuit is needed from me to her. What if she thinks I'm okay with all of this, that the feelings are mutual? So, why not just go ahead and end it all and go our separate ways? How is that helping my cause?
I don't see that at all, WshIKnw. Not at all.
What I am seeing is akin to a frightened child who so desperately wants to keep that kite from flying away so they hold onto the string that much tighter. You, my friend, are that child. Your questions are valid, but may very well be to little to late. The thing is, they didn't reach this decision overnight. And to have an affair isn't something they take lightly - although some may if they are of the whorish variety. In their mind, they checked out of the marriage a long time ago, and we are nothing more than a nuisance to them.
Now, the DB techniques didn't work in my case due to her circumstances relating to her childhood. What we say as doing DB work just validated her feelings that I just didn't care, when that wasn't the case. And when I pursued, it was too little, too late in her eyes. It was a lose-lose all the way around. Different things for different people as there is no one set thing that works for all. Sure, there are techniques that I disagree with - but then again, that's based on my own personal experience.
Remember the butterfly. In reality, there is NOTHING that you can do but work on yourself.
Look, you have to fix YOURSELF before you can have any chance to fix your M/R.
I get it. You want the pain to go away. There are no shortcuts. Your email is not going to magically snap her out of this path that she is on. You can't talk yourself out of something you acted your way into. IT TAKES TIME AND WORK!!! It took time for her to get to this decision. In turn, it will take time for her heart to soften.
As for the affair, it is the symptom of the issues you had in the relationship. Ultimately people make that choice. You can focus on the why and what all day long if you choose. To me, that is time wasted if you continue to live there.
Figure out what your role was in the demise of your M/R and fix it. Otherwise, those issues are portable. They will follow you until they are addressed.
We come to DB'ing to save our M/R. What we discover is that it is a lifestyle change. It can be applied to all relationships in our lives. You have to get yourself right.
Aren't they often required to not give more drinks to someone who is clearly wasted and is planning to drive home? Maybe it varies by state. I think they are required to monitor the people they are surviving. If they see a drunk guy go get in a vehicle, they are likely obligated to try to stop him, or call the police.
Who tells them to go into the bar the first place? A bartender can't be fully aware of every single person.
Let me ask you this - is a fork responsible for making someone fat?
If the only reason a wife cheats is because she wasn't getting what she needed in the marriage, and if it was the H's fault that she wasn't getting what she needed, how could the H not be partially at fault? Whether the H chooses to take any blame or not for his wife cheating, he better make d*mn sure he avoids neglecting his women in the future, if he was guilty of neglecting his wife, that's all I'm saying. If I lose my wife for good because of this, I want to learn as much as I can from this and not make the same mistakes again.
I understand you pain, believe me I do. However, each sitch is different. I will not take blame for my W's A because I am/was a good husband and father. My W told me all these things and would tell everyone in her circle of friends and family all the time. Why she did what she did?? There is no answer and putting blame on yourself is just wrong my friend. This isn't about you! This is about her and her unhappiness with herself. Again, surely there were things in my M that I should have taken notice and changed, but that does not give them the right to betray the one they loved. Her decisions to leave our M came long before the affair and she just used it as a way to get out. Yes, since my M is over, I have taken what I have learned here and will continue to apply it in my new R. That is all you can do.
What I am seeing is akin to a frightened child who so desperately wants to keep that kite from flying away so they hold onto the string that much tighter. You, my friend, are that child.
That's how I feel, unfortunately. She complained that I was like a child that couldn't take care of himself, too. The thing is, I'm pretty sure I was mostly that way from the day she and I met. But I suppose, while we were married, I could have gotten worse, as it's easy to let your wife fall into a mom/caretaker role, I think, especially when she's a very strong person and you are not. She did say that it was actually kind of fun for a while "taking care of" me. Maybe the idea of becoming a real mom was making her have second thoughts about that. I just wish she would have put her foot down, and forced me to man up, without resorting to giving up. What she has done has forced me back into a role of completely taking care of myself. Unfortunately, she doesn't seem to be just doing it to get me to change. Otherwise, there would be no separation agreement. If you guys want to spit on me and tell me I deserve this and to GTFO the forums, I understand.
Your questions are valid, but may very well be to little to late. The thing is, they didn't reach this decision overnight. And to have an affair isn't something they take lightly - although some may if they are of the whorish variety. In their mind, they checked out of the marriage a long time ago, and we are nothing more than a nuisance to them.
I keep wrestling with my dad over the idea that she checked out a long time ago. I know she has had issues with me for years, but planning to leave me for years? No way. She and I planned in the summer to start trying to have kids in October. She wouldn't do that if she was planning to leave. In October, we never got around to trying to have kids. We did paint the back deck, though, which is a lot of work, and she probably did the majority of the painting because I was more meticulous. She wouldn't have bothered to do all of that work if she was planning to leave. When she started going cold, she quit doing much of anything. Rarely cooked, rarely did anything to take care of the house or the yard. Still did laundry, because it had to be done. But at that point, she was acting like she was done.
Now, the DB techniques didn't work in my case due to her circumstances relating to her childhood. What we say as doing DB work just validated her feelings that I just didn't care, when that wasn't the case. And when I pursued, it was too little, too late in her eyes. It was a lose-lose all the way around. Different things for different people as there is no one set thing that works for all. Sure, there are techniques that I disagree with - but then again, that's based on my own personal experience.
What were the childhood circumstances?
meticulous. She wouldn't have bothered to do all of that work if she was planning to leave. When she started going cold, she quit doing much of anything. Rarely cooked, rarely did anything to take care of the house or the yard. Still did laundry, because it had to be done. But at that point, she was acting like she was done.
Mine did all the normal right up until BD. I suspect that most others on here, did too. Divorce is a life-changing decision. I guarantee you she didn't make it in a couple of months. Maybe she looked as having kids as a last resort. Who knows, but even then that would have been a Band-Aid and huge mistake. You can't read into it.
What were the childhood circumstances?
The unmentionable childhood abuse - which I only briefly touched on here on the forum. As bad as it could get - and I am amazed that she functioned this well for so long. But that's another story.
What she has done has forced me back into a role of completely taking care of myself
Well, here is your chance. For you...not her.
If you guys want to spit on me and tell me I deserve this and to GTFO the forums, I understand.
Absolutely not! You do not deserve this and no spouse deserves to be betrayed for that matter. You can only focus on bettering yourself. Not for her, but for you.
I keep wrestling with my dad over the idea that she checked out a long time ago. I know she has had issues with me for years, but planning to leave me for years?
The damage to your M didn't happen overnight. She didn't wake up one day and just say she didn't want to be married anymore. Same with having an A. Therefore, knowing this means that you are going to have a long road ahead of you. Just stay focused on reading and working on things for you my friend.
I hope you realize that we are trying to encourage you and help you see things from a big picture perspective. Sometimes it comes with a 2x4. Nonetheless, you have as much right to be on these forums as the rest of us.
You get to choose what advice we share with you that applies and what advice to discard. You are working to find your way. We get it.
Divorce is a life-changing decision. I guarantee you she didn't make it in a couple of months. Maybe she looked as having kids as a last resort. Who knows, but even then that would have been a Band-Aid and huge mistake. You can't read into it.
When asked, she said that she hadn't been actively thinking about leaving me, but it did pop into her mind from time to time. She seemed to be saying that she just kind of all of a sudden had an epiphany right around the time of our anniversary. I guess she just hit that 7-year-itch time-frame right on the mark.
I'm pretty sure that she has just been dissatisfied for a while, and so she was in a vulnerable state -- vulnerable to outside advances. And when the right person came along, after she switched jobs over the summer, all of a sudden, she had another ship to jump over to, and so all of a sudden she did just that, once she felt like he was a good guy and he was going to take her on. I think that's why she didn't offer up marriage counseling, make any stern warnings, give any ultimatums, or anything to try to fight for the marriage. I don't think she would have just split like that and given up, if she hadn't found another ship to step over to all of a sudden. And maybe for a few months, she could see that ship coming over, and during that time kind of hoped her current ship would sink, so that she could justify stepping over. Self-fulfilling prophesy. I'm still trying to figure it out. But this scenario makes a lot more sense to me than her planning to leave for months or years.
I'm still trying to figure it out. But this scenario makes a lot more sense to me than her planning to leave for months or years.
Think we are all trying to figure it out. My W said her biggest complaint for me was that I did not spend enough "family time" and this was true. She told me that she would go places with the kids and see all these happy family's and would start to miss me. Said after awhile it became so normal that she just pictured herself a single mother and got used to it. This was not something that happened within a few weeks. I assuming it is the same with your W. If it popped in her mind from time to time then it had to be something that was building up. Unfortunately, you can't change the past. The only thing you can do is learn from this experience and work on bettering yourself.
I hope you realize that we are trying to encourage you and help you see things from a big picture perspective. Sometimes it comes with a 2x4. Nonetheless, you have as much right to be on these forums as the rest of us.
You get to choose what advice we share with you that applies and what advice to discard. You are working to find your way. We get it.
Yeah, I really appreciate all the encouragement. Because I really get discouraged easily right now.
See, my friend, we've all been there. Trust us when we say it's been a long, long time in the making. She didn't come to the conclusion over night, and the fact that it's "popped in her head" quite a few times will ate eat to that. What it appears is that you are trying to rationalize it into thinking that it's a recent decision, whether on some level it is to make yourself feel better, who knows. But it's not. This - like the affair - was long in the making. The thing is, you need to stop thinking the whys and what fors, because it's only going to bring you pain. Concentrate on you. Unfortunately, you need to look at the future without her.
"Attest" not "ate eat"
Geez
See, my friend, we've all been there. Trust us when we say it's been a long, long time in the making. She didn't come to the conclusion over night, and the fact that it's "popped in her head" quite a few times will attest to that. What it appears is that you are trying to rationalize it into thinking that it's a recent decision, whether on some level it is to make yourself feel better, who knows. But it's not. This - like the affair - was long in the making. The thing is, you need to stop thinking the whys and what fors, because it's only going to bring you pain. Concentrate on you. Unfortunately, you need to look at the future without her.
She posted something on FB on our anniversary saying that I was her favorite "pair of long legs" and that she still loves me so.
She gave me an anniversary card that said she was so glad to have me in her life, she loved me so much, and she hoped for many more years to come, growing with me (this is just the part she wrote in herself). Our anniversary is Nov 21. She went cold and started building a wall a week or two later. Nothing that I know of happened during this period.
Doesn't to me sound like someone who is planning a breakup, but I suppose if she were trying to do it sneakily that she could have been. I hope it wasn't that she was planning to break up and didn't want me to know because she didn't want me to try to fix it.
Everyone on this thread but me seems to be sure there was an affair. So you guys are even more suspicious of it than I am?
But someone sneakily planning a breakup probably wouldn't put all that effort into painting the deck, the previous month.
I wonder whether my wife blocking me and my family off from being able to see hardly anything on her Facebook profile, could be her temp checking me at all, perhaps doing something to make me hurt, so that I complain to her and show that I still have feelings for her. Or she could simply be trying to keep me out of her business and perhaps be trying to protect my feelings by not letting me see things.
2x4 [ON] OFF
Dude, just stop. Do I need to bring out the anniversary card my ex gave me ONE month before BD and in the midst of her affair??? You can try to rationalize it all you want. I know, I was there. You don't want to see it for what it is, so therefore you choose blindness.
Stop analyzing things. It's not going to you any good. Period.
2x4 ON [OFF]
2x4 [ON] OFF
Dude, just stop. Do I need to bring out the anniversary card my ex gave me ONE month before BD and in the midst of her affair??? You can try to rationalize it all you want. I know, I was there. You don't want to see it for what it is, so therefore you choose blindness.
Stop analyzing things. It's not going to you any good. Period.
2x4 ON [OFF]
WishIknew......man I feel your pain, I'm going thru the same thing unfortunately. Same age range. 2 days before my wife BD I would have bet all I own that she would have taken a bullet for me, yet 2 days later, she was gone. I have done all the same things you are doing, analyzing everything, trying to make sense of her actions, replaying marraige over and over to try to see where it went wrong, but all this did was make my life miserable!! And honestly I didn't come to this realization until my divorce attorney slapped me in the face with it about 3 hours ago. She told me to quit dragging my feet, get in touch with the reality of the situation, and move forward. She said the one thing I CAN guarantee you is that WW will get a divorce from me, no matter how long I stall, beg, plead, etc. if that's what she wants, then the judge will grant it. Listen to the guys on here, they know what they are talking about. You are gonna drive yourself crazy, I know I did. I feel like a huge weight is off of my shoulders now, I have felt more normal in the last 3 hours than I have in the last 5 months. Take the butterfly reference to heart. Accept, let go, and be the best you can be. What's meant to be will be. Accepting the reality will be the biggest relief ou have felt in some time, I promise. It's tough, but you can do it.
I recently took down a bunch of pictures of her and put them in a dresser.
I wonder whether my wife blocking me and my family off from being able to see hardly anything on her Facebook profile, could be her temp checking me at all, perhaps doing something to make me hurt, so that I complain to her and show that I still have feelings for her. Or she could simply be trying to keep me out of her business and perhaps be trying to protect my feelings by not letting me see things.
I can almost guarantee she isn't trying to protect your feelings. Your feelings aren't in her vocabulary at this point. Take the Facebook stuff at face value and don't dwell on it too much. Think of it as a favor, just one less thing to constantly remind you of her. Mine did the same thing and I felt the same way you did at first. Here is a thought, change your Facebook pic to one of just you or something you like. Act "as if" you are moving on, whether you are or not. Don't do it to see what her reaction might be, do it for yourself. She has chosen her path that doesn't include you. Choose yours, it's the only way it will get easier.
But someone sneakily planning a breakup probably wouldn't put all that effort into painting the deck, the previous month.
My wife bought me a 60k Mustang a month before she left. Don't dwell on stuff like that. Just like Jeep74 said, this decision didn't come overnight. She had been thinking about it for some time, she just needed a trigger "last straw" to make her see it thru. My WW was this way. I would purge my whole house of anything that had to do with your WW, and not give a d@mn about what she might say about it. That's your house now. As others have said your "old" marraige is dead and gone, you have to treat it that way. Keep your head up, you can do it.
No one here has addressed the fact that I was always accused by my wife of not giving her enough attention, of being neglectful. In the Last Resort Technique video package on this site, in LESSON 9 - ANSWERS TO FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS, the first question is about when you shouldn't employ the LRT. MWD says that if your wife accused you of neglecting her, you need to be very careful about pulling back and not pursuing. How do I know when I shouldn't pursue? She says that you should pursue initially, if you were accused of never pursuing, but if you begged and pleaded for weeks or months (which I did), and your wife is still pushing you away, "then you may pull back a little bit." How much pulling back is too much? At the beginning of answering the question, she says the idea throughout the program is to do more of what works and less of what doesn't work. I haven't been making contact with my wife for about 2 weeks now, and she's still moving in the direction of divorce, and barely makes any contact with me. There was a time, about a month ago, where I was talking to her on the phone every night for about 3 nights in a row, and things seemed to be getting a little bit better. So, I'm wondering whether I should try to go back to that, and do like I did before and avoid relationship talk in the process. But it seems like if she isn't making any contact with me, then maybe I'm doing the right thing by not making contact with her. I don't know. I only have one shot at this. This whole time I've only had one shot to fix this. I've felt like I have been walking a tight rope the entire time. It's so easy to make the wrong choice and push her away more. It's so hard to know what the correct choice is. She has told me that it's over, she has sent me separation papers, I suspect she is seeing someone, but haven't confirmed it, and she has now made most of her FB profile hidden to me. It feels so hopeless. *Please don't focus on the rest of this. This part is just venting.* It's so unfair the way she went from warm to cold without any warning, without letting me know how badly she needed the things she needed from me. Why couldn't she have just told me she was nearing the end of her rope, and that she just couldn't go on if certain very important things didn't change? I don't know why she wouldn't do that. She said she doesn't believe in ultimatums, but yet she gave me one in January of 2008, when she came back to me after a short pulling away, and that ultimatum caused me to vastly improve my life, and she would certainly agree that it did just that. Why would someone not believe in ultimatums? That she shouldn't have to go to the extent of threatening divorce to get me to do something? I just needed to know how important things were to her. That's all. I needed her to put her foot down, and demand things -- not give up when she didn't get them. Why do women give up on marriages so f***ing easily?
No one here has addressed the fact that I was always accused by my wife of not giving her enough attention, of being neglectful. In the Last Resort Technique video package on this site, in LESSON 9 - ANSWERS TO FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS, the first question is about when you shouldn't employ the LRT. MWD says that if your wife accused you of neglecting her, you need to be very careful about pulling back and not pursuing. How do I know when I shouldn't pursue? She says that you should pursue initially, if you were accused of never pursuing, but if you begged and pleaded for weeks or months (which I did), and your wife is still pushing you away, "then you may pull back a little bit." How much pulling back is too much? At the beginning of answering the question, she says the idea throughout the program is to do more of what works and less of what doesn't work. I haven't been making contact with my wife for about 2 weeks now, and she's still moving in the direction of divorce, and barely makes any contact with me. There was a time, about a month ago, where I was talking to her on the phone every night for about 3 nights in a row, and things seemed to be getting a little bit better. So, I'm wondering whether I should try to go back to that, and do like I did before and avoid relationship talk in the process. But it seems like if she isn't making any contact with me, then maybe I'm doing the right thing by not making contact with her. I don't know. I only have one shot at this. This whole time I've only had one shot to fix this. I've felt like I have been walking a tight rope the entire time. It's so easy to make the wrong choice and push her away more. It's so hard to know what the correct choice is.
The thing is, its a tightrope you have to walk - and one that can be very emotionally draining...that's why we say you have to work on yourself first and foremost and pretend she doesn't exist, because in reality, she doesn't.
You've tested the waters and she isn't responsive. The only choice you have is to just do for yourself. As far as talking on the phone every day and now not, if she isn't contacting you then she isn't interested. Sorry to put it that way, but it is what it is.
Why do women give up on marriages so f***ing easily?
That's a tough question. Most give up because they feel they have no other alternative...they will say they've tried for a long time and we didn't listen. Looking back, after your fog has cleared and you can see thing for what they are, you'll see her flags. Same with me - due to the situation, normal things set her off and I didn't see her flags. By the time they felt they've done all they could, they are done. And when someone's done, they are done. Period.
By the time they felt they've done all they could, they are done. And when someone's done, they are done. Period.
The Divorce Remedy says we never really know when someone is done, though, at least until they do something like get remarried. So we have to always treat our situations as though they might not actually be done.
The Divorce Remedy says we never really know when someone is done, though, at least until they do something like get remarried. So we have to always treat our situations as though they might not actually be done.
That's correct. But you can't live your life hoping that she will just magically change her mind, either. Because if you do that, you'll find a lot of resentment and anger years down the road.
However, that's your choice. By the time a person has made the decision to leave a marriage, much less have an affair, they are done. Sure, some may say I want a divorce to spur action...however, if your wife has never done that and only mentioned that she has thought about times over the years after she asked for divorce, then that is the biggest red flag there is. Just like we've told you over and over, they don't make this decision lightly...and they dang sure don't have an affair on a light decision, either (well, unless they are of the whorish variety, then that's another kettle of fish).
So, if you take anything away, take this - use this time to work on you. Unfortunately you are at the stage where you must pretend she doesn't exist. If you need help to get stronger and become the kind of man any woman would want and not have to raise, then do it. This is your time now. Own it.
Right now, Wsh, you're in the scrambling phase. Desperately seeking anything that you can cling to. We have all been there and done that. All of us.
You're making excuses for her and her behavior to try to rationalize it...and to give meaning to the answers you don't have. We have all done that. And you're trying to hold together the one thing you so dearly loved. We've all done that.
If you were to ask her if her memories of the marriage is the same as yours, the answer would be a resounding no. Period. One thing you have to remember is that they will tell us stuff, whether it is out of guilt or just to make it easier on them, to make us feel better and more accepting of their situation.
My friend, it's not going to get any easier for quite some time. I'm not trying to be a wet blanket, but I won't blow smoke, either. We say use this time wisely, because that's all you have.
You often talk like there is no hope of her coming back. So, when you say "use this time wisely", it makes me wonder why it matters so much to use this time wisely.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...078#Post2542078http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...707#Post2588707Wish.....check out these 2 threads from another user. I found them last night and thought they were great. This dude GAL, and did everything right in my opinion. Check it out, I think it will inspire you a little bit.
You often talk like there is no hope of her coming back. So, when you say "use this time wisely", it makes me wonder why it matters so much to use this time wisely.
I'm not saying that she won't, but you need to look at things realistically. I was in the same boat. I hoped, didn't listen, whatever. I behaved almost just as you're doing on here. It took a virtual hammer for me to see the truth. And that was extremely saddening, yet felt like a weight was lifted from my shoulders.
So, when you say "use this time wisely", it makes me wonder why it matters so much to use this time wisely.
Use that time wisely to work on yourself and become the best person you can be. Whether it is becoming stronger to stand on your feet, whatever. Just do it. Get your own life together. So let me ask this, what are you going to do if she does not come back?
You often talk like there is no hope of her coming back. So, when you say "use this time wisely", it makes me wonder why it matters so much to use this time wisely.
There is always a chance, until You decide there isn't. It sounds like your state has 1yr separation period? If so, that's what Jeep means by use your time wisely. You have a whole year to gal, get your sh!t together and become someone only a fool would leave. I wish my state would have had that. Take this time to do something different. Cut your hair, get out of the house and be seen. Do something you have never done before. Your wife will take notice, but she can't take notice if you are always trying to figure out why she did what she did. That my friend we will never know. You have got to live as if she doesn't exist, as hard as that is. Become interested in YOU and what you want. Quit analyzing, it is going to drive you insane!! The only thing you can control is You. It's tough as he!!, I know. I lost my Dad, who was my best friend, 3 weeks ago. I couldn't even mourn the loss of him because I was still obsessed with my WW and doing the same things you are doing right now. That's no way to live brother. Keep your chin up, you can do it.
There is always a chance, until You decide there isn't
Not to be the negative nancy, but yes there is unless the other person really is done and doesn't want it at all...just like in my case.
There is always a chance, until You decide there isn't
Not to be the negative nancy, but yes there is unless the other person really is done and doesn't want it at all...just like in my case.
I have heard of people reconciling 10, 20 years later.
So how do you KNOW?
If you can predict what you will do in life,
can you buy me a lottery ticket with the winning numbers?
That may be. Did I say I KNOW? Do you KNOW?
I never said give up hope, but to be realistic. Should he live his life on what she may/may not do? How is that healthy?
I just needed to know how important things were to her. That's all. I needed her to put her foot down, and demand things -- not give up when she didn't get them. Why do women give up on marriages so f***ing easily?
I see your frustration and understand why you have so many questions. Many of us on here don't understand how someone you spend over a decade with can just one day decide they don't want to be with you anymore. My W did many things that you are describing as well. She deleted my entire family from her FB, turned cold towards me within a week without warning, gave me no hope that she cared about our past, didn't let me know she was so unhappy and wanted out of the marriage, etc, etc. I know it hurts to think about all the good times in your M and question how she doesn't anymore. My W and I took a trip to New Orleans with friends 3 months prior to her leaving. My W told me that, even though things got better this past year, she still wants a D. You can't explain these actions and if you dwell on them it will drive you insane. I wish I had the answers to all your questions as I was once asking them myself. I do not believe she is giving up on the M so easily. This is something that she has had in the back of her mind for sometime and has finally made the decision to go forward with it. I also understand you questioning the methods you've learned here in regards to "fixing" you MR. However, its not about that as your old MR is over. You can only focus on yourself at this point and do things for yourself. Don't worry so much about what she is doing. Hell, my W is already seeing OM but now it doesn't bother me. If you would have talked to me a few months ago this would have broken my heart. She is not the woman I married anymore and by loving myself I have realized that I don't deserve this because I'm a better person. From what I have learned here I now love myself more than my M or my W. Once you start focusing your attention on yourself you will realize that it will get easier. The pain will never go away, but it will get easier. In time, if you keep practicing what you have learned, your W may come back and then she may not. Hopefully, by then you will have built a strong enough relationship with yourself that whatever happens you will have the tools to make things better than before.
That may be. Did I say I KNOW? Do you KNOW?
I never said give up hope, but to be realistic. Should he live his life on what she may/may not do? How is that healthy?
What is healthy is for you to follow basic DB'ing
Detach, GAL, Work on self and keep moving forward.
Stop looking backwards and become a person only a fool would leave.
That's what I've been saying all along. He can't live his life dependent on if she will or won't come back. At some point he is going to have to move on for his own sake.
That's what I've been saying all along. He can't live his life dependent on if she will or won't come back. At some point he is going to have to move on for his own sake.
Let me just re-phrase what you wrote slightly.
He has to keep moving forward.
He will decide when it is time to move on.
Let me just re-phrase what you wrote slightly.
He has to keep moving forward.
He will decide when it is time to move on.
I can live with that.
Moving forward is just what the butterfly analogy is all about. For now, he's squeezing the life out of that butterfly. We've all done it...and I'll be the first to raise my hand. However, if he doesn't open his and release it, it will never come back to alight.
Let me just re-phrase what you wrote slightly.
He has to keep moving forward.
He will decide when it is time to move on.
I can live with that.
Moving forward is just what the butterfly analogy is all about. For now, he's squeezing the life out of that butterfly. We've all done it...and I'll be the first to raise my hand. However, if he doesn't open his and release it, it will never come back to alight.
YUP
And now that we used up his thread - he will need to start a new one
You often talk like there is no hope of her coming back. So, when you say "use this time wisely", it makes me wonder why it matters so much to use this time wisely.
There is always a chance, until You decide there isn't. It sounds like your state has 1yr separation period? If so, that's what Jeep means by use your time wisely. You have a whole year to gal, get your sh!t together and become someone only a fool would leave. I wish my state would have had that. Take this time to do something different. Cut your hair, get out of the house and be seen. Do something you have never done before. Your wife will take notice, but she can't take notice if you are always trying to figure out why she did what she did. That my friend we will never know. You have got to live as if she doesn't exist, as hard as that is. Become interested in YOU and what you want. Quit analyzing, it is going to drive you insane!! The only thing you can control is You. It's tough as he!!, I know. I lost my Dad, who was my best friend, 3 weeks ago. I couldn't even mourn the loss of him because I was still obsessed with my WW and doing the same things you are doing right now. That's no way to live brother. Keep your chin up, you can do it.
I'm so sorry about your dad.. and your wife leaving you.. Thanks for the encouragement.