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http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2720787#Post2720787 I went semi-dark for a few weeks and wife became friendlier. She seemed to notice after about 24 hours. After a few weeks she started an R talk. I was careful to just listen and validate but the end of the conversation was that she will still not wear our ring and she, "just doesn't want to be married to me" I pointed out that we are married and living this way was not a good thing but I let it go. During this two weeks she sent her most suggestive emails to date to celeb friend. She pretty much flat out asked him if they could be closer and said that she wanted a full relationship with him. In the next one she said she wished she was in LA because she would be with her king. So I can't deny to myself what is going on there any longer. He did not answer either email but she sent him a third email with normal friend conversation and he answered that with a few friendly words. So, I hope that might put a crack in her fantasy.
After this, on the advice of my DB coach I went as dark as possible. still not 100% dark but as close as I could get given our present situation. She noticed so fast. I think she started changing her behavior within a few hours. Checking on me, kinda following me in the house. saying I was acting weird. S11 was nearby when she said that and he said, "Dads not acting weird.", bless him. that night in bed I was trying to fall asleep and she started giving me a weird kind of back rub. It was somewhat pinchy and I asked her nicely to stop. after laying quietly for a while and almost sleeping she says, "I don't care what S11 says you are acting weird." she started rubbing on me and it was nice and I let her for a long time. she eventually made it really clear that she wanted sex and I hope it wasn't a mistake but 10 months of no sex makes for some powerful urges. We had pretty good sex, the only decent time for the entire 10 months (the other few times were not good) she cried a little after and told me that it was nice. The next morning I continued the darkness and just went to work without saying goodby. she is calling my phone now and I did not answer. I have solo plans for one day this weekend as well. This is very weird for me, we rarely do anything solo. I hope the sex wasn't a mistake and I hope going out on my own is not a mistake. I know going out on my own is normal for going dark but it is so out of character for me that it feels weird and I wonder if she will think I am playing some kind of game. To be fair, I feel a little bit gamey, I would rather be home. I guess I need to let her feel this loss.
So, I'm feeling pretty good despite all that is going on. The best I have felt all year. Thanks again for any advice that is provided.
Should I call my W back or would that be a mistake? I really want to call her but have not yet.
Should I call my W back or would that be a mistake? I really want to call her but have not yet.
Did she leave a message that is asking you questions?
It WILL feel like a game if you keep going back and forth. You cant "go dark" and still be engaging in back rubs and sex and things like that. You need to be more consistent so that it doesnt feel like youre just throwing darts at the wall and seeing what sticks.
Consistency is King.
Should I call my W back or would that be a mistake? I really want to call her but have not yet.
Did she leave a message that is asking you questions?
It WILL feel like a game if you keep going back and forth. You cant "go dark" and still be engaging in back rubs and sex and things like that. You need to be more consistent so that it doesnt feel like youre just throwing darts at the wall and seeing what sticks.
Consistency is King.
she did not leave a message. I will get my nerves up to refuse sex if it is offered again. I was really consistent for my 2 weeks of semi-dark. It's only been one day of full dark so I will do my very best to be consistent from here.
I think having sex is fine if she initiates.
Sex releases bonding hormones. Why not take advantage of that?
Keep staying dark and doing things on your own. Have you read about pursuit and distance?
I think having sex is fine if she initiates.
Sex releases bonding hormones. Why not take advantage of that?
Keep staying dark and doing things on your own. Have you read about pursuit and distance?
It felt right and good and the wife said it was "nice"
My head is swimming on the right answer to that one but I do feel like rejecting her when she came on so strong might have been a bad idea.
I think having sex is fine if she initiates.
Sex releases bonding hormones. Why not take advantage of that?
I agree with Rose and if you read the end of DR...MWD is supportive of ML even when estranged or separated...
Hi Lex,
I completely understand the uncomfortable feeling of doing things on your own. WH and I were the same way - EVERYTHING until recently was done together. Maybe that's part of the problem? I also have solo plans for the 1st time this weekend and I'm actually sick to my stomach over it. But it's a positive step and you will get through it.
As for calling her back - she didn't leave a message asking for something so I wouldn't. Part of going dark, right?
I wish I had the option of ML with WH. I think it's a great thing - good way to build feelings and stay connected. I'm not sure I would initiate it - but I wouldn't stop it from happening.
As for calling her back - she didn't leave a message asking for something so I wouldn't. Part of going dark, right?
^What she said.
that night in bed I was trying to fall asleep and she started giving me a weird kind of back rub. It was somewhat pinchy and I asked her nicely to stop. after laying quietly for a while and almost sleeping she says, "I don't care what S11 says you are acting weird." she started rubbing on me and it was nice and I let her for a long time. she eventually made it really clear that she wanted sex and I hope it wasn't a mistake but 10 months of no sex makes for some powerful urges.
I understand what youre all saying. My point is more that I wouldnt let it get to that point. If I saw the kind of messages that Lex's W is sending about wishing she lived closer to this guy so he could be her King, I wouldnt be letting her rub all over me. In my mind, knowing about these messages and still allowing this kind of behavior will diminish any credibility that he does have when he says he 'wont live in an open marriage'.
I certainly might be wrong, but thats my opinion, for what it's worth.
Hi Lex,
I completely understand the uncomfortable feeling of doing things on your own. WH and I were the same way - EVERYTHING until recently was done together. Maybe that's part of the problem? I also have solo plans for the 1st time this weekend and I'm actually sick to my stomach over it. But it's a positive step and you will get through it.
As for calling her back - she didn't leave a message asking for something so I wouldn't. Part of going dark, right?
I wish I had the option of ML with WH. I think it's a great thing - good way to build feelings and stay connected. I'm not sure I would initiate it - but I wouldn't stop it from happening.
I stayed strong and didn't call back. It was surprisingly difficult. It's funny but I am feeling better than I have in the whole 10 months but at the same time I have some anxiety about going out on my own. funny eh? of all the things to be worried about that is the thing today. It's much more manageable than the state I have been in usually though.
that night in bed I was trying to fall asleep and she started giving me a weird kind of back rub. It was somewhat pinchy and I asked her nicely to stop. after laying quietly for a while and almost sleeping she says, "I don't care what S11 says you are acting weird." she started rubbing on me and it was nice and I let her for a long time. she eventually made it really clear that she wanted sex and I hope it wasn't a mistake but 10 months of no sex makes for some powerful urges.
I understand what youre all saying. My point is more that I wouldnt let it get to that point. If I saw the kind of messages that Lex's W is sending about wishing she lived closer to this guy so he could be her King, I wouldnt be letting her rub all over me. In my mind, knowing about these messages and still allowing this kind of behavior will diminish any credibility that he does have when he says he 'wont live in an open marriage'.
I certainly might be wrong, but thats my opinion, for what it's worth.
It's an extreme case of a celebrity crush. That doesn't meet my definition of an open marriage.
She hasn't left the bed. She is not in a PA or even a mutual EA. This isn't the stage where I would lay down hard lines.
It's an extreme case of a celebrity crush. That doesn't meet my definition of an open marriage.
She hasn't left the bed. She is not in a PA or even a mutual EA. This isn't the stage where I would lay down hard lines.
I think I always agree with Rose; she knows what she is talking about and I think it was Rose or Ginger who previously pointed out that the celebrity himself is unlikely the one replying to her messages...probably just someone who manages his social media accounts...thus, the friendly, non-sexual replies.
It's an extreme case of a celebrity crush. That doesn't meet my definition of an open marriage.
She hasn't left the bed. She is not in a PA or even a mutual EA. This isn't the stage where I would lay down hard lines.
I think I always agree with Rose; she knows what she is talking about and I think it was Rose or Ginger who previously pointed out that the celebrity himself is unlikely the one replying to her messages...probably just someone who manages his social media accounts...thus, the friendly, non-sexual replies.
It's him. we met in person for lunch before I knew W was flirting with him. I have his personal cell phone number and email address.
It's an extreme case of a celebrity crush. That doesn't meet my definition of an open marriage.
She hasn't left the bed. She is not in a PA or even a mutual EA. This isn't the stage where I would lay down hard lines.
I think I always agree with Rose; she knows what she is talking about and I think it was Rose or Ginger who previously pointed out that the celebrity himself is unlikely the one replying to her messages...probably just someone who manages his social media accounts...thus, the friendly, non-sexual replies.
It's him. we met in person for lunch before I knew W was flirting with him. I have his personal cell phone number and email address.
I don't doubt it's him. (Can't remember which poster thought it wasn't him.)
I just see no evidence that he is encouraging her at all. It seems he is trying to not offend a fan with a large internet following without following her hints.
I believe Lex that it is the celeb himself.
I also think the celeb is a major bleeping putz. If he had any integrity, he'd gently but firmly and definitively turn away Lex's W's flirtations.
When a W is so intensely infatuated with a fantasy figure (like a celeb)...
I think it's really important to think about why that's happening. What void is that filling in her emotional life? Why isn't she able to feel satisfied w/ your marriage?
But for me ... I feel a distinction between an infatuation, however intense, vs. an actual physical relationship. I recognize that there is a small step between such an intense infatuation and adultery (not necessarily w/ the celeb, but w/ some other opportunity for sex that might tantalize her), but, still, it feels like a significant distinction to me. To me, that distinction forms a personal boundary.
I continued to be mostly dark this week. Went out on my own on Saturday night. She was definitely interested in what was happening. when I returned she was still up and I caught her sniffing me a few times. Not in a friendly way but in an investigative way. after that she seemed to cool out and remained friendly but no more contact beyond that. going to go to an extra judo session on Thursday. she has only emailed celeb one more time and it was a normal friendly email. as usual, I'm not sure what to think of all this.
Lex23,
I have a question for you about going dark: what is the objective? Do you think your W is gong to wake up from her fantasy relationship?
With your encouragement and others, I have been trying to go dim this week and it definitely causes the W to pursue me.
Lex23,
I have a question for you about going dark: what is the objective? Do you think your W is gong to wake up from her fantasy relationship?
With your encouragement and others, I have been trying to go dim this week and it definitely causes the W to pursue me.
the goal as I understand it is to flip the distance/pursuit dynamic and then let the W feel any feelings that come up as a result.
I guess the ideal would be that W would realize that she is pursuing me for the reason that she still cares for me. I would hope that it might help her to realize that love is a choice that she can still make and that it is worth making.
Will it actually work out that way? I have no idea but it's not like I have anything better to do at this point. 10 months of love and attention from me sure hasn't changed anything.
I have found it's pretty hard for me to go dark like this. It's the opposite of what I want. I'm just doing it anyway and letting the feelings come and dealing with it. Not sure what this means if anything. pain is supposed to teach us something I guess I just haven't learned that particular lesson yet. HA!
I have a question for you about going dark: what is the objective? Do you think your W is gong to wake up from her fantasy relationship?
the goal as I understand it is to flip the distance/pursuit dynamic and then let the W feel any feelings that come up as a result.
In my opinion, 'going dark' is not 'the solution'. It isnt going to be the thing that causes you W to 'wake up'. In my opinion, going dark is to give you space to figure out what YOU want. To live YOUR life without the need to pursue her.
So, while youre dark, what are you doing that would make her interested if she WERE to pursue you?
I have a question for you about going dark: what is the objective? Do you think your W is gong to wake up from her fantasy relationship?
the goal as I understand it is to flip the distance/pursuit dynamic and then let the W feel any feelings that come up as a result.
In my opinion, 'going dark' is not 'the solution'. It isnt going to be the thing that causes you W to 'wake up'. In my opinion, going dark is to give you space to figure out what YOU want. To live YOUR life without the need to pursue her.
So, while youre dark, what are you doing that would make her interested if she WERE to pursue you?
I'm increasing my physical fitness. Beyond that I don't know. I just used the rest of the time to have some fun and give myself a breather.
I don't want to be to arrogant but I'm a fully committed family man and husband. If she doesn't want that then she just doesn't want me anymore. I'm not going to change my core desires just to see what happens with her reaction.
In my opinion, 'going dark' is not 'the solution'. It isnt going to be the thing that causes you W to 'wake up'. In my opinion, going dark is to give you space to figure out what YOU want. To live YOUR life without the need to pursue her.
So, while youre dark, what are you doing that would make her interested if she WERE to pursue you?
I'm increasing my physical fitness. Beyond that I don't know. I just used the rest of the time to have some fun and give myself a breather.
I don't want to be to arrogant but I'm a fully committed family man and husband. If she doesn't want that then she just doesn't want me anymore. I'm not going to change my core desires just to see what happens with her reaction.
Improving your physical fitness is certainly a good thing.
As for the rest, Im not suggesting that you change your core desires. But for me, I know I needed to work on some things that were problematic in my marriage.
- I relied too much on my ex for my own sense of worth and happiness
- I was impatient with my kids
- I was indecisive about fairly significant issues
- I complained constantly - often just to have something to talk about
- I was lazy about getting things done
and so on and so on.
These were things that I looked at myself and wanted to improve for me. Going dark helped to give me the space to work on those to become a better version of me without needing to pursue my ex.
I identified overreliance on my wife for my own happiness in the first few months of no sex. I have been and still am working on this.
I feel like I am getting a pretty good handle on it at this point. I know I will be ok with or without her. I also know that my best future is with her if she will have me.
as for the other issues, I feel pretty strong in these areas. My house is in great condition and I tackle any problem that comes up immediately. I do my own repairs and I am a competent carpenter, electrician, and plasterer. Over time I have rebuilt almost every room in my 100 year old house to my wife's specifications (she is a great decorator) I am very patient with my kids and I spend time with them every day doing things that interest them. I am very decisive, I will give a big decision a few days but when I decide I go for it with my whole heart. I do not complain, ever. It is something that I forbid myself to do years ago and I stick to it. If I don't like something and I can change it then I do. If I can't change it then I accept it or get away from it. Complaining is forbidden.
Lex, glad to hear you're making progress (sounds like you're more at peace with everything). Keep working on it, friend.
as for the other issues, I feel pretty strong in these areas. My house is in great condition and I tackle any problem that comes up immediately. I do my own repairs and I am a competent carpenter, electrician, and plasterer. Over time I have rebuilt almost every room in my 100 year old house to my wife's specifications (she is a great decorator) I am very patient with my kids and I spend time with them every day doing things that interest them. I am very decisive, I will give a big decision a few days but when I decide I go for it with my whole heart. I do not complain, ever. It is something that I forbid myself to do years ago and I stick to it. If I don't like something and I can change it then I do. If I can't change it then I accept it or get away from it. Complaining is forbidden.
I think you are missing my point. Those were my issues. Im not suggesting they are yours. But those are some of the things I identified that I wanted to change about myself, and I used my time to address those and improve on this.
Just 'going dark' doesnt really change anything. Sure, it may make your W change her mind for now, but, in the end, she isnt going to step back in to exactly the same marriage that she wanted to leave. This isnt something that just 'blows over'. So what do you need to do to be a better man, husband, father, person, etc? While you are 'dark', that is the time to work on it.
"Complaining is forbidden"
I am off track here, but I am just curious, did you wife feel like complaining was forbidden to her as well?
I am not a complainer per say, but sure I do it every now and then to vent off some steam. I think everyone does.
Do you think your wife might have not communicated problems and vice versa because it might have misinterpreted as "complaining"?
I am pretty sure I held everything back because I didn't want to be a "complainer" In turn not expressing myself left me resentful and many issues unresolved.
Just something to ponder.
"Complaining is forbidden"
I am off track here, but I am just curious, did you wife feel like complaining was forbidden to her as well?
I am not a complainer per say, but sure I do it every now and then to vent off some steam. I think everyone does.
Do you think your wife might have not communicated problems and vice versa because it might have misinterpreted as "complaining"?
I am pretty sure I held everything back because I didn't want to be a "complainer" In turn not expressing myself left me resentful and many issues unresolved.
Just something to ponder.
I don't feel like I ever held anything back. If something seemed wrong I would point it out and move for a change. I just didn't let it take the form of complaining.
I never forbid my wife from complaining but she does not do it much. I think she does hold back telling me her issues for whatever reason. She does not think I understand her, and perhaps I don't. But, I'm very willing to try. I gave up on R talk because she hates it and will not have that talk with me but I'm still very willing to listen. Anything she is willing to say I have been validating.
I'm also well aware that I'm not perfect and I am always trying to improve myself. I just don't know what my wife wants and I am pretty happy with myself in general. So my self improvement at the moment takes the form of guarding against doing anything co-dependant and improving the good skills that I already have.
I'm a pretty self reflective person and I think about how I could better handle my situation all the time. probably almost too much. It's hard to stop sometimes. So I am trying to lighten up and just live my life as well.
stayed as dark as I could over the week so far. W seems to be settling into the idea for a few days as she does not seem to be investigating me any more. She emailed celeb yesterday and said she was doing everything she could to make it out to LA this summer. She sent him a picture of a bird in a cage with it's wing cut off. the bird was looking out the window at a heart in the distance. It's so exasperating to see this kind of thing. She is so free to do as she wishes and apparently she still sees herself as caged and de-winged. Celeb replied but only to wish her good luck at her upcoming art convention and to say "hang in there." It's become pretty annoying that he keeps her going with a few sentences but never tries to get anything from her and never shuts it down either. so weird. I am dark this few weeks on the advice of my DB coach but I can't hold it in much longer. I'm going to confront her after our next session no matter what happens. Better to have things in the light. I feel like this darkness is turning into a game because I know things that she doesn't know. All of this happens on the backdrop of a perfectly calm and orderly household. It makes my head spin.
Despite all this I actually feel pretty decent this morning. I am going straight from work to my extra judo session so I will be out all day till late. I know working out hard is always good for my mood as well. W seemed perfectly chipper about me being gone till late tonight.
I will see what comes up next. Hopefully, by next time I post it will be about what happened when I outed her emailing.
I never forbid my wife from complaining but she does not do it much. I think she does hold back telling me her issues for whatever reason. She does not think I understand her, and perhaps I don't.
Lex23,
This is perhaps the biggest issue I am facing in my situation, so wanted to share a few thoughts:
*Your W doesn't complain much/tell you her issues...not because she doesn't have complaints or issues, but because she isn't comfortable doing so...this may be her own issue (in my W's situation, that's what was modeled to her in her family and that's what she was taught a good W did)...or it may be her relationship with you (Lex23 doesn't listen to me, so I don't even try to tell him).
*Your W doesn't think you understand her...now this is a chicken and egg from hell...she doesn't think you understand her so she doesn't tell you about herself...and when she doesn't tell you about herself, how can you possibly understand her?
So what can you do to try and change this dynamic?
Part 1. What parts of her complaints about you and your relationship are valid? Here's what I found/asked when I looked hard at myself:
*Do you want to be a guy who doesn't listen to people when they are trying to talk to you? NO!
*Do you want to be a guy who thinks he is right all the time so much that other people think it's pointless to disagree with you? NO!
*Do you want to be a guy who talks down to others? NO!
I could go on and on, but you get the point...what are your issues? What are the questions you need to be asking yourself? What are the things you want to change to be the best Lex23 ever?
Part 2. Does your W feel emotionally connected to you? If not, the above may improve your R with others, but probably not your W. For me, I have needed to improve my communication skills AND my emotional connection to my W in order for her to open up to me and opening up to me includes a lot of what has been lacking in our R: her disagreeing with me, her complaining and getting angry with me, her yelling and screaming at me! Does this sound like an improvement over the fake-calm, conflict avoidance? Yes, it actually is because my W is now being more honest with me than she ever has before and is letting out the things that she has been holding in for years.
Lex23,
Have you looked into "celebrity worship syndrome"?
@Gordie
I have been reflecting heavily on this very thing for months. I am a pretty good listener and I have always listened when my wife did want to tell me issues. I can remember several times over the years where I didn't understand her at first but we attempted 2nd or 3rd times and eventually did reach a resolution that we were both happy with.
She still says I am the "goblin king" though so I think it's linked to my persuasiveness/talkative nature when there is a problem. I definitely have tried to "fix" her problems in the past. And she does not like this. But it's been easily over 6 months now and I switched to validation of feelings and no more talk. I don't try to alter her emotional state in any way. I leave it up to her and just offer my support. am I perfect at this? probably not, but I have behaved in a way that I am proud of. I keep trying to be better. so some of this has to fall on her. she has to have enough moxie to get ahold of her own internal state I think.
Lex23,
Have you looked into "celebrity worship syndrome"?
No
I know what today's reading and learning will be about though.
It sounds like you are ahead of me on this learning curve. I have a very thick skull and it's taken me way too long to start waking up to some of these issues...but I guess better late than never, right? What does "goblin king" mean?
Im still trying to understand what you are gaining by being dark. To me, being dark was a supplement to the other things that I was doing. If youve read DR, then the basic structure is to set goals, work to achieve them, and monitor the impact. But I dont really know what going dark as an action does if you arent actively doing the rest of it. From the recent posts, it sounds like you 'are who you are' and your W can make a choice to be with you or not. This process is abut self-reflection and growth. I cant tell you what you need to work on, that has to come from within. I have some thoughts, but I only know what you post here. You say you are a self-reflective guy, but if you cant see any of your own shortcomings, then I think you arent looking in the right places.
Honestly, thats why I changed my name to this. I want to remind myself constantly that I can improve. It could be small things, but there are always steps forward that can be made.
In my opinion, being dark allows you the space to do that. You become less involved in pursuit of W that your attention is focused where it needs to be. Without this part, I kind of agree that being dark IS a game of chicken.
I agree with Kaizen.
Are you confusing detachment and going dark? They are separate things.
It sounds like you are ahead of me on this learning curve. I have a very thick skull and it's taken me way too long to start waking up to some of these issues...but I guess better late than never, right? What does "goblin king" mean?
Have you ever seen the movie "Labyrinth". It's kind of a kids movie but it has some adult themes in it. W and I have always liked it.
David Bowie played a character called the goblin king. If you haven't seen the movie then my best summary would be that Bowie is trying to get the protagonist girl to agree to give up her baby brother to him willingly. give up more-or-less. she keeps running his maze and doesn't give up. The final scene bowie is frustrated with the girl's tenacity and says something along the lines of "just let me rule you and I will be your slave"
She refuses and her reply is that she ran all his challenges and whatnot and that "you have no power over me" that breaks the spell and she gets her brother back.
so W feels like I serve her but want to rule her on an emotional level I figure. That is where my self improvement work as been for months now. I only validate feelings and offer support. I am open to the idea that I have other issues but if I do then she is not telling and I haven't figured them out.
I agree with Kaizen.
Are you confusing detachment and going dark? They are separate things.
yes I believe this is the problem. I am using the language here improperly.
detachment is probably what I should be saying. my DB coach advised me to go out on my own and forget about her state for now. He also advised me to "create some mystery" about myself. So that it what I have been doing. It does feel a bit gamey but it's not like I know what else to do. I am not "dark" in the sense that it is meant here I think. W and I still talk and sleep in same bed and take care of kids together.
Have you looked into "celebrity worship syndrome"?
Wow, interesting stuff there!
"Individuals that are love obsessional stalkers often convince themselves that they are in fact in a relationship with the subject of their obsession."
"Individuals who suffer from Erotomania tend to believe that the celebrity with whom they are obsessed is utilizing the media as a way to communicate with them by sending special messages or signals."
so W feels like I serve her but want to rule her on an emotional level I figure.
This hits an important point, and resonates w/ my situation. It's a catch-22. W wants H to provide certain things, emotional and material support, comfort, and convenience; yet when the H provides those things, she winds up feeling emotionally controlled and suffocated.
How do you break this bond, this cycle?
Have you looked into "celebrity worship syndrome"?
Wow, interesting stuff there!
"Individuals that are love obsessional stalkers often convince themselves that they are in fact in a relationship with the subject of their obsession."
"Individuals who suffer from Erotomania tend to believe that the celebrity with whom they are obsessed is utilizing the media as a way to communicate with them by sending special messages or signals."
I had just been reading that same stuff. Wife checks on both of these things. She thinks their relationship is closer than it is and she thinks that he is sending her secret messages via his facebook posts.
so W feels like I serve her but want to rule her on an emotional level I figure.
This hits an important point, and resonates w/ my situation. It's a catch-22. W wants H to provide certain things, emotional and material support, comfort, and convenience; yet when the H provides those things, she winds up feeling emotionally controlled and suffocated.
How do you break this bond, this cycle?
Oh man do I wish I knew how to break this cycle. I've been thinking on it every day for months.
Just as a thought experiment ... what would happen if you went cold turkey and didn't provide for the emotional/material needs of your W?
Just as a thought experiment ... what would happen if you went cold turkey and didn't provide for the emotional/material needs of your W?
I kind of did stop providing emotional support and within a few days we had the first decent sex in 10 months. But, then she kinda cooled out on me and might even be ok with it (today anyway) I don't think it's been long enough to say for sure.
I'm not sure what would happen if I stopped providing material support. That would actually be pretty cruel as she has little money of her own. I would think she would be pretty mad at me and probably scared for her future.
I agree with Kaizen here. Lex, you seem to think that going dark is a game that will get her to pursue you. While that may be a natural consequence, it is not the reason. The reason to go dark is so you can work on yourself--the DB principles of GAL, 180, and if done effectively, then may lead to detachment. This all takes time. You have to put in the hard work to see results.
I can't help but notice how defense you get. Why? Do you feel attacked or are you trying to convince us (yourself) that you don't need to make changes? You don't have to come here and convince us how great you are. We believe you! But something went wrong in this M, and you owe it to yourself to look at that. She has her own--very bazaar coping mechs, and you do too.
We are focusing a lot on your wife's obsessions with celeb, but I am now more curious what you can do to improve you. Not for her, but for you. We ALL have things that we can do do be happier, more confident, change about ourselves, or whatever it may be. Dig deep!
And in terms of your constant spying on her and her having no idea, I just find this unnecessary at this point. This isn't healthy in any R!
Blu
The DB coaches say do what works... so reducing your emotional support sounds like a good thing.
As for financial/material support ... would she be open to talking about coming up with a plan for greater financial independence? A long-term plan? That would make her feel more empowered, and feel better about herself.
The one thing I learned from looking up celebrity worship is that people who obsess over it have mental issues and low self-esteem. So, it seems to me, whatever you can do to allow her to build her sense of empowerment ... might be good? But obviously the key is to not try to control her, but to assist if wanted. Tough, if not impossible, balance....
I agree with Kaizen here. Lex, you seem to think that going dark is a game that will get her to pursue you. While that may be a natural consequence, it is not the reason. The reason to go dark is so you can work on yourself--the DB principles of GAL, 180, and if done effectively, then may lead to detachment. This all takes time. You have to put in the hard work to see results.
I can't help but notice how defense you get. Why? Do you feel attacked or are you trying to convince us (yourself) that you don't need to make changes? You don't have to come here and convince us how great you are. We believe you! But something went wrong in this M, and you owe it to yourself to look at that. She has her own--very bazaar coping mechs, and you do too.
We are focusing a lot on your wife's obsessions with celeb, but I am now more curious what you can do to improve you. Not for her, but for you. We ALL have things that we can do do be happier, more confident, change about ourselves, or whatever it may be. Dig deep!
And in terms of your constant spying on her and her having no idea, I just find this unnecessary at this point. This isn't healthy in any R!
Blu
I don't want to play games but I began to feel like I was after following the DB coach advice. I was still following the advice anyway.
I am also keenly aware that my wife needs something that she is not getting. I very much want to learn how to give it to her.
I don't mean to come off defensive. I really appreciate all the advice and I am trying to follow it. I had already been working on myself for months before I posted here and I am working on myself still. I've managed to stop all pursuit and just live life. that is a positive change that I feel pretty good about. Currently I am focused on detaching and taking care not to exert any control on my W at all. Getting better at this.
The DB coaches say do what works... so reducing your emotional support sounds like a good thing.
As for financial/material support ... would she be open to talking about coming up with a plan for greater financial independence? A long-term plan? That would make her feel more empowered, and feel better about herself.
The one thing I learned from looking up celebrity worship is that people who obsess over it have mental issues and low self-esteem. So, it seems to me, whatever you can do to allow her to build her sense of empowerment ... might be good? But obviously the key is to not try to control her, but to assist if wanted. Tough, if not impossible, balance....
I have been helping back her painting career for years while never taking credit for anything. She has had some wins lately with this. It seems to have improved her outlook.
But if you & your W have been doing that (trying to get her art career to be profitable) and it's not working ... then it's not working. No?
But if you & your W have been doing that (trying to get her art career to be profitable) and it's not working ... then it's not working. No?
Well that is true but she really wants it so it's not like I can tell her to stop. especially when she will see it as control.
Also, after many years she is actually getting some traction for the first time. She has a gallery show in progress now and it did so well they extended it till the end of Feb (it was originally going to end at end fo Jan)
Also, we managed to line her up another show in March which she is painting every day to get ready for. So it would be weird to stop now.
So then... what's the alternative? How long will you support her while she's emotionally and physically separated from you?
Not rhetorical questions. I would actually like to hear your thoughts on this, even if they are half baked.
So then... what's the alternative? How long will you support her while she's emotionally and physically separated from you?
Not rhetorical questions. I would actually like to hear your thoughts on this, even if they are half baked.
My thoughts on this are definitely half baked. I have spent some time thinking about it though.
I hate to admit it, and maybe this means I am foolish IDK, but a long time. As long as the children are loved and none of this insanity is affecting them then I feel like it's my job to preserve that, even if it costs me personally.
If the W starts taking this outside email and going to see him then that changes things. The kids would now be affected. It would be time to reconsider.
Unfortunately, email is all that she has because her relationship is partially delusion. So I could find myself stuck here for a long time. It's scary.
Lex23,
I am right there with you in the same sad boat. While this is a delusion and she continues to care for the kids, then I'm continuing to support her. If the fantasy becomes reality or we separate or divorce or she detaches from the children, then it will have to change.
I'm one month into GAL activities and I think my W is becoming comfortable with the situation. Everything is friendly and the house is well run but there is no more physical loving at all. It's a bit sad but overall I am in the best emotional state that I have been in since this all started. I hope that W doesn't just rest here comfortably. It's a weird place to be stuck. I guess I can only continue and hope for the best at this point.
I'm one month into GAL activities and I think my W is becoming comfortable with the situation. Everything is friendly and the house is well run but there is no more physical loving at all. It's a bit sad but overall I am in the best emotional state that I have been in since this all started. I hope that W doesn't just rest here comfortably. It's a weird place to be stuck. I guess I can only continue and hope for the best at this point.
Hi Lex23,
Great news that you are in the best emotional state that you have been in since this all started. Sounds like your GAL activities are paying off!
You say your wife is becoming comfortable with the current situation. Specifically, what leads you to believe this?
It is probably a good time to speak with your DB Coach again so you can discuss this feeling of being stuck.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
I hope that W doesn't just rest here comfortably.
I'd be very surprised if she did. She's hungry for something outside of your marriage; and she might be taking a breather of a sort, but she's going to continue on her journey...
I'm one month into GAL activities and I think my W is becoming comfortable with the situation. Everything is friendly and the house is well run but there is no more physical loving at all. It's a bit sad but overall I am in the best emotional state that I have been in since this all started. I hope that W doesn't just rest here comfortably. It's a weird place to be stuck. I guess I can only continue and hope for the best at this point.
Hi Lex23,
Great news that you are in the best emotional state that you have been in since this all started. Sounds like your GAL activities are paying off!
You say your wife is becoming comfortable with the current situation. Specifically, what leads you to believe this?
It is probably a good time to speak with your DB Coach again so you can discuss this feeling of being stuck.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
I am thinking this because she is in a pretty good mood everyday but putting zero energy into our R and not showing any signs of wanting anything more at all. The kids are taken care of and her time to paint and flirt with OM are maximized while I spend more free time doing my own thing.
I hope that W doesn't just rest here comfortably. It's a weird place to be stuck.
To me, it doesnt sound like you are 'stuck'. In my mind, every day when you dont go 'backwards' is a step forward. Keep doing as you are. The key will be to change your mindset.
I'm one month into GAL activities and I think my W is becoming comfortable with the situation. Everything is friendly and the house is well run but there is no more physical loving at all. It's a bit sad but overall I am in the best emotional state that I have been in since this all started. I hope that W doesn't just rest here comfortably. It's a weird place to be stuck. I guess I can only continue and hope for the best at this point.
Hi Lex23,
Great news that you are in the best emotional state that you have been in since this all started. Sounds like your GAL activities are paying off!
You say your wife is becoming comfortable with the current situation. Specifically, what leads you to believe this?
It is probably a good time to speak with your DB Coach again so you can discuss this feeling of being stuck.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
I am thinking this because she is in a pretty good mood everyday but putting zero energy into our R and not showing any signs of wanting anything more at all. The kids are taken care of and her time to paint and flirt with OM are maximized while I spend more free time doing my own thing.
What are you doing for GAL? If you're not doing it anyway, then start going out on social engagements. Have the time of your life. Without the wife of course. Not just other dudes either. Nothing wrong with women being on these social engagements. After all, you're moving on, doing GAL.
What are you doing for GAL? If you're not doing it anyway, then start going out on social engagements. Have the time of your life. Without the wife of course. Not just other dudes either. Nothing wrong with women being on these social engagements. After all, you're moving on, doing GAL.
I am going to extra judo training sessions and sometimes I go out with friends from work. Watched a UFC fight this past weekend. I drive for uber occasionally as well. I don't feel comfortable doing anything with other women. I'm not going to seek any kind of relationship with a female until this thing is resolved completely. I would not want to have to answer for that extra complication when I trying to reconcile (assuming I even get that chance). I don't even want that right now.
What are you doing for GAL? If you're not doing it anyway, then start going out on social engagements. Have the time of your life. Without the wife of course. Not just other dudes either. Nothing wrong with women being on these social engagements. After all, you're moving on, doing GAL.
I am going to extra judo training sessions and sometimes I go out with friends from work. Watched a UFC fight this past weekend. I drive for uber occasionally as well. I don't feel comfortable doing anything with other women. I'm not going to seek any kind of relationship with a female until this thing is resolved completely. I would not want to have to answer for that extra complication when I trying to reconcile (assuming I even get that chance). I don't even want that right now.
I didn't say anything about a relationship. No point in diving head first into the deep end. I'm talking about casual fun. Coffee...lunch...movie...whatever. You'll feel like a million bucks laughing and having a good time with a member of the opposite sex and it'll show your wife that she really is in extreme danger of losing you and that you'll be just fine without her. I've lived this myself and seen it dozens of times. It works better than anything else you're going to try. It has worked for others right here.
I think it's time to think about casually dating if or when you are ready to close the door on your marriage. However, until or unless that point comes I would stick to doing things which are more social and less potentially complicated..
There is plenty of opportunity to get out and about looking attractive, doing interesting new things and meeting others without causing potential hurt to yourself or to a new woman by getting involved before you are truly ready to leave your marriage behind.
I think it's time to think about casually dating if or when you are ready to close the door on your marriage. However, until or unless that point comes I would stick to doing things which are more social and less potentially complicated..
There is plenty of opportunity to get out and about looking attractive, doing interesting new things and meeting others without causing potential hurt to yourself or to a new woman by getting involved before you are truly ready to leave your marriage behind.
Sure there are but none of them will convince a wayward spouse they might lose you. Attention from the opposite sex will. Plus, I didn't say dating. Everyone here seems to jump right to that conclusion as if men and women can't go do something social without romance entering into it. I'm saying just casual hangouts, coffee. Not dating. Nothing serious. A few people right here have taken that advice and came back to say it made them feel awesome and it worked on their spouse. Going to the gym doesn't make a wayward spouse fear losing you. Going to coffee with a member of the opposite sex does.
I think it's time to think about casually dating if or when you are ready to close the door on your marriage. However, until or unless that point comes I would stick to doing things which are more social and less potentially complicated..
There is plenty of opportunity to get out and about looking attractive, doing interesting new things and meeting others without causing potential hurt to yourself or to a new woman by getting involved before you are truly ready to leave your marriage behind.
Sure there are but none of them will convince a wayward spouse they might lose you. Attention from the opposite sex will. Plus, I didn't say dating. Everyone here seems to jump right to that conclusion as if men and women can't go do something social without romance entering into it. I'm saying just casual hangouts, coffee. Not dating. Nothing serious. A few people right here have taken that advice and came back to say it made them feel awesome and it worked on their spouse. Going to the gym doesn't make a wayward spouse fear losing you. Going to coffee with a member of the opposite sex does.
Hi Lex23,
Spending time with another female isn't a one size fits all solution/suggestion. What might be ok for one, would be devastating for another.
This would be best answered by your DB Coach on whether or not this is good for you and your specific situation.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
his isn't a one size fits all s
3 more weeks of semi-dark. wife seems to have become comfortable with it. she doesn't ask for detail on what I am up to and she has stopped coming to bed altogether. some nights she stays up late painting and other nights she sleeps in S4 bed. communication is minimal. I stopped all spying but I'm sure she is still trying to close the deal with celeb. My emotional state is still pretty good. I was sad a few days but mostly I am spending time with kids and getting out a few times a week for fun. I don't think I am going to go much longer without confronting her about her affair. DB coach said not to confront yet but I'm starting to feel more and more like I have no chance unless I bring everything into the light. I am starting to increasingly feel like I could really walk away if we didn't have kids.
she doesn't ask for detail on what I am up to and she has stopped coming to bed altogether.
That speaks volumes
Almost another month went by with no changes. I sleep on my own and am doing well with GAL. I am feeling pretty good overall. If I didn't have kids then I would let W go at this point. But, I do have kids and she is still their mom. What a tough situation. The only other notable thing is that after 3 months of coldness W got me a birthday present and acted like everything was fine. How weird is that?
If I didn't have kids then I would let W go at this point.
Can you expound on this? What do you mean, 'let her go'?
If I didn't have kids then I would let W go at this point.
Can you expound on this? What do you mean, 'let her go'?
I mean mentally. I am prepared for life on my own. If we had no kids then I would probably divorce her. But, my family is more important than my individual life so I plan to let this go on as long as she continues to be a good mother.
my family is more important than my individual life so I plan to let this go on as long as she continues to be a good mother.
I'm very sympathetic to your philosophy, and have felt similarly, to endure a problematic marriage for the sake of my kids.
I'm not trying to dissuade you from that position. That's for you to decide. But I do think that somehow things will come to a head. It could be next week, it could be months from now. In the mean time I hope you maintain your own emotional health and your integrity and dignity. And when things do boil over, I hope you will be as emotionally prepared as you can be.
I'm very sympathetic to your philosophy, and have felt similarly, to endure a problematic marriage for the sake of my kids.
I would have been more than happy done this. More than. See, she never exhibited any signs of being unhappy - no arguing, nothing. DB was out of the freaking blue in so many ways. That's one reason why my head was spinning for so long. So yeah, I'd have stayed.
Almost another month went by with no changes.
One more thing. The DB process is not about only ressurrecting marriages from the dead. The process is also effective in improving your current marriage. Now that things seem to have stabilized (as Im judging based on your comments), what changes can you continue to make to 'push her positive response' triggers?
How can you be stimulus for positive change?
The DB process is not about only ressurrecting marriages from the dead
I do believe that many on here feel that it is and get discouraged.
Almost another month went by with no changes.
One more thing. The DB process is not about only ressurrecting marriages from the dead. The process is also effective in improving your current marriage. Now that things seem to have stabilized (as Im judging based on your comments), what changes can you continue to make to 'push her positive response' triggers?
How can you be stimulus for positive change?
The only thing I can think of, and have been doing, it to back her art business efforts and encourage her to be more self sufficient. It makes her feel better but the down side is that it's all in preperation to leave me. She would be gone now if she had the opportunity.
The only thing I can think of, and have been doing, it to back her art business efforts and encourage her to be more self sufficient. It makes her feel better but the down side is that it's all in preperation to leave me. She would be gone now if she had the opportunity
Let me ask you this, would you want her to stay if she didn't want to?
The only thing I can think of, and have been doing, it to back her art business efforts and encourage her to be more self sufficient. It makes her feel better but the down side is that it's all in preperation to leave me. She would be gone now if she had the opportunity
Let me ask you this, would you want her to stay if she didn't want to?
No, I want her to go if that is what she needs. I want her to fix things with me or to leave. she won't do either one. In my rare windows of opportunity to R talk with her I have made this clear. I was polite but firm. So far she will not pick.
I hear you Lex, I feel the same way at the moment even though mine moved out a year ago. I'm trying to push it forward and let her go like she wants and she is the one trying to slow it down but yet doesn't talk to me... I find it very frustrating time to be in but keep trying to concentrate on myself.
So far she will not pick.
I bet she already has...she just doesn't want to be the one to pull the trigger.
the down side is that it's all in preperation to leave me.
You know the cliche about if you love someone, set them free....
You're not going to go back to your old marriage. Even if you want to.
Almost another month went by with no changes.
One more thing. The DB process is not about only ressurrecting marriages from the dead. The process is also effective in improving your current marriage. Now that things seem to have stabilized (as Im judging based on your comments), what changes can you continue to make to 'push her positive response' triggers?
How can you be stimulus for positive change?
The only thing I can think of, and have been doing, it to back her art business efforts and encourage her to be more self sufficient. It makes her feel better but the down side is that it's all in preperation to leave me. She would be gone now if she had the opportunity.
So you would describe yourself (I mean, previously) as 'unsupportive'? or 'controlling'? Im not sure. I wonder how you can apply these kinds of changes elsewhere besides only in her art activities.
Caliguy had a very interesting exercise I think you would get some benefit in trying. It goes like this:
Make three lists of 10 characteristics each.
- List 1 is things that you dont like about yourself. What would you seek to change in yourself? I think I listed some of my things earlier in your thread.
- List 2 is things that you admire in other men. What are characteristics of the ideal man, spouse, mate in your eyes?
- List 3 is things you already like about yourself. If you were to design yourself from the ground up, what characteristics of yours would you keep?
Now, to look for inspiration for goals and positive changes, you can examine lists 1 and 2 and see how you can get them into list 3.
I bet she already has...she just doesn't want to be the one to pull the trigger.
She's fawning over another man.
She stopped sleeping with you.
She has pulled the trigger, in a way.
W started an unexpected R conversation while we were grocery shopping. Ended up being a long talk that was very informative to me but unfortunately, did not accomplished much in the end. I was very careful to validate all her feelings and not to assume anything about what she was thinking. I am very proud of myself. I think I did a great job at this and I think that is why she kept the conversation going for so long. She felt comfortable enough to keep talking. The conversation was too much to retype here but I will put what I see as the most important parts below. As always I really appreciate any replies.
-She admitted that she was too dependent on me and that I am a fixer. She also acknowledged that we got in this position together and it was no one person's fault. She is working hard to be less dependent on me but only via selling her art. I let her know that I backed her up on this and that it was a positive and desirable trait to be self sufficient.
-she admitted that she was not happy and that I did not protect her good enough. She admitted that her goal was to leave me and that we were not happy as a couple. She clearly wanted me to agree to this. I agreed that I failed to protect her at a few key times but that I did protect her successfully many times as well, it was not one sided. I validated her feelings and agreed that if she wanted to leave that she was free to go. I also made it clear that I stand for marriage, love and our family. I pointed out that if we are not happy then fixing it is better than giving up. She made it clear that she has already given up.
-she expects me to support her for as long as necessary. she seemed to feel massively entitled here. her vision was that she would take as long as she needed (years even) to get a fully operational art business going and leave into that newly built financial security. She saw that we would be fiends during this time. I made no attempt to change her mind but I pointed out that I was not her friend but her husband. I said that I cannot help her do things that are specifically for leaving me. she seemed entitled enough here that my words did not phase her at all. I can tell that she still assumes that I am going to do this for her.
-I pointed out that this will hurt the kids. I could tell that she had not reflected on this much at all. she seemed to assume that this would all be fine for them somehow. she wouldn't really talk about this so I let it go.
-she ended the conversation with some remembering of good times we had but said that the whole conversation accomplished nothing.
So there it is finally. It took her one full year almost exactly to admit that she wanted to separate. And she is definitely assuming that the whole separation will be tailored to be as easy as possible for her. So I figure my challenge now is to drop the rope 100% and lovingly detach. I think I have to find a way to show her what independence is like and not become her servant. I have some initial thoughts about what I will be doing in the next few days. I will post about that soon.
I am planning on moving my W things to the spare bedroom this week. She hasn't been to the master bedroom in almost a month anyhow. I've been doing very well with GAL and my kids but I am going to go 100% on this. I'm going to tell my wife that I accept everything that she is doing but that I can no longer be her husband. I'm going to stop helping with her business and stop all of the other husband things that I do for her. She was so blatant and entitled that I think that helping her with anything at this point is just helping her leave me. She will have to accomplish her business and independence goals on her own. Is there anything else I should be doing at this point? I'm ready for the long haul now.
I'm going to tell my wife that I accept everything that she is doing but that I can no longer be her husband.
What exactly doe this mean to you? Are you going to file? If not, what does "no longer being her husband" entail?
If you tell her this, then be prepared to back it up because she will call your bluff. It looks like your ideas and all are on the right track. Honestly, its going to get harder before it gets easier.
I'm going to tell my wife that I accept everything that she is doing but that I can no longer be her husband.
What exactly doe this mean to you? Are you going to file? If not, what does "no longer being her husband" entail?
What I mean by this is that she is 100% free to do as she pleases but I cannot and will not do anything to help her leave me. No helping with her art business, no trips together, no money for anything other than essential items, no R talk of any kind because there is no R. I will treat her with respect but I will also treat her as a tenant in my house who is looking to move out at some point.
I'm going to tell my wife that I accept everything that she is doing but that I can no longer be her husband.
What exactly doe this mean to you? Are you going to file? If not, what does "no longer being her husband" entail?
I will not file because it goes against what I want. She will have to do it. If she won't file then I will not concern myself with it. I am not in a hurry to get into another R anyway.
I suspect this is no big realization for most of you, but today I realized that this is just the end of the opening act. W just now can admit that she wants out after a whole year. I figure now she has to explore what that might involve which could easily take another year or longer. It's a marathon not a sprint. . .
Hang in there Lex23! We are all just walking each other home.
I suspect this is no big realization for most of you, but today I realized that this is just the end of the opening act. W just now can admit that she wants out after a whole year. I figure now she has to explore what that might involve which could easily take another year or longer. It's a marathon not a sprint. . .
Lex23, wow, that's a big development. How are you holding up? How are you taking care of yourself? Do you have the support you need? Are you going to tell the kids?
I suspect this is no big realization for most of you, but today I realized that this is just the end of the opening act. W just now can admit that she wants out after a whole year. I figure now she has to explore what that might involve which could easily take another year or longer. It's a marathon not a sprint. . .
Lex23, wow, that's a big development. How are you holding up? How are you taking care of yourself? Do you have the support you need? Are you going to tell the kids?
This has been so long coming that I found acceptance pretty quickly. She took herself away from me bit by bit over the whole year. By the time that she actually put it into words I had already come to grips with it and it wasn't even a surprise.
This has been so long coming that I found acceptance pretty quickly. She took herself away from me bit by bit over the whole year. By the time that she actually put it into words I had already come to grips with it and it wasn't even a surprise.
A lot of times things are done to ease one into that frame of mind...
She took herself away from me bit by bit over the whole year.
Lex23,
I think you hit the nail on the head. It seems like the typical process for the spouse that wants to leave the marriage is to whittle away the marriage over a long period of time. And I think that's what makes divorce busting so hard; the process is so slow that you don't realize what's happening until it's too late. If we could really understand very early in the process that we just have to ignore the spew and nonsense and build a life for ourselves (aka GAL), then I think a lot more of us would save our marriages. But, saving the marriage has its own price; you may have to limp along with someone who's unwilling to grow.
She took herself away from me bit by bit over the whole year.
Lex23,
I think you hit the nail on the head. It seems like the typical process for the spouse that wants to leave the marriage is to whittle away the marriage over a long period of time. And I think that's what makes divorce busting so hard; the process is so slow that you don't realize what's happening until it's too late. If we could really understand very early in the process that we just have to ignore the spew and nonsense and build a life for ourselves (aka GAL), then I think a lot more of us would save our marriages. But, saving the marriage has its own price; you may have to limp along with someone who's unwilling to grow.
I think you are on to something, Doodler. However, that window is marginally small as it is...
However, that window is marginally small as it is...
Jeep,
You're probably right. If the spouse is intent on sabotaging the marriage, they're not going to change until they address their own issues.
However, that window is marginally small as it is...
Jeep,
You're probably right. If the spouse is intent on sabotaging the marriage, they're not going to change until they address their own issues.
Doodler,
Possible. When they want out, they want out.
lex
what is your plan ... ?
I bet I have a story that this site has never heard before.
Last night I had a good opportunity where the kids were in bed early. I decided it was time to let her know that I know about her online affair. She denied it at first but when I pressed her a bit she admitted that it had been going on all year. Then she tried to dodge responsibility for it but I pointed out that it was an affair and that it was wrong. I pointed out that no matter what I did, it could never justify it. I made it clear that I will not live this way and that if she wanted to leave me then she was free to go. She then accepted responsibility and agreed that it was wrong. She said that if it was ok, she wanted to finish the final picture that she was working on of him because she had a lot of hours in and when finished it was going to be a good promotion for her art because it was linked to a movie and going to be on the movie site. She said if she could finish that then she would stop all contact and stop making art for him. I agreed to this.
Then she said to me, "now that this is in the open do you have anything to tell me?" I said that I did not and that I was faithful for this whole year and all the time. she said, "you don't have anything to tell me about what's been going on?" I asked for her to just come out with it. I did not know what has been going on. After quite a bit of coaxing, she said that people had been communicating with daily her via her twitter feed and that they knew everything that she was doing. She said that she thought I was behind it. She said that she thought it was like a Truman show situation where someone was watching her, perhaps for entertainment. I was caught totally off guard but I managed to keep my composure. I assured her that not only was I not behind this but that she knew from our 19 years together that I do not like reality shows and that I would never participate in one. after some more reassurance, she said that she believed me. I validated all her concerns and asked her to show me some examples of the picture communication. she showed me one picture that was a bit specific to her situation but could easily be a coincidence. I asked to see more but she said she did not save any more pictures. she told me about how she would be doing things in the house and then art of the same things would appear in the twitter feed. she said that she had also heard voices once telling her to go to bed when she was up late painting but that no one was there. She said that once the twitter feed was trying to compel her to paint a witch doctor and when she painted something else she thought that someone might be using laughing gas on her and that she had to resist very hard in order not to paint the witch doctor painting. she wanted me to check the space beside our house for signs of tampering. She also said that once S4's blocks had been arranged to spell her artist name. I validated her some more and then asked her to show me in the future when these things happen. However, after some more talking where she said she suspected maybe the CIA was behind it, she agreed that the best move was not to participate. we ended up talking about this for over an hour. She agreed to take a break from twitter for a while. we talked some more about our past and had a good rest of the night. she came to bed with me for the first time in two months. she rubbed on me and we ended up spooning and falling asleep. Then when I got to work this morning she called me and we talked about pleasant things. she never calls me at work unless she needs something.
WTF! She was not kidding me. she has always been very poor at lying. her commitment to this was total. if she was lying then it was a masterpiece of lying.
So I am sitting at work now with my mind a bit blown. I have zero expectations but I do feel pretty good this morning. I won't be surprised at all if she falls back into hating me.
How do I proceed from here? was I right to validate her? I'm pretty much planning to go with the flow for now and see what happens next.
Holy hell I don't even know how to answer that...
Lex23, you are right...I have never heard anything like that before! Everyone is watching her like the Truman show? Your life is a secret reality show...and you are behind it all? Voices in her head? Like Jeep, I have only sympathy for you...not sure I have any advice...that is really, really, REALLY out there...focus on yourself, on being the best Lex23 you can be...really not sure what to do about the W, hopefully there are vets who do...
A few other relevant things that I remembered.
She said that the 2 months sleeping in separate rooms helped her with some of the sadness she had been feeling.
She said the Truman show situation has been going on for almost 3 months. I know that for most of February she painted all night, every night and used energy drinks to stay awake. I think she might have slept even less than I expected that month. Just brief naps during the day.
was I right to validate her?
I dont understand this question.
It's always right to validate people's feelings.