Time for a new thread. Old one:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2719890&page=11It's taken quite some time before I was fully able to take a serious look below the surface and see things as they are. On the exterior and what's presented to the world, there are no problems. It's what lies beneath that still needs work.
I've learned that no matter the effort I put into my marriage, the results were never going to be what I had wanted. I have told so many others on here about being careful when hoping, as I've gone down that very road - I hoped, got my hopes up, whatever...only to have it fall in my face. And each time, I got back up and hoped again. Only to have the same result. Frustrating and infuriating come to mind, but then again - there was no easy switch and certainly no words that could magically help. It was something that I had to figure out on my own. And yes, the advice on here has been absolutely fantastic. But at the end of the day, I'm the only one that could travel my road. That was a most bitter pill.
I've made a lot of mistakes along the way. I do feel like I've exited the woods. Maybe not in the best of fashion, and certainly not where I wanted, but I exited nonetheless. Am I stronger? I believe so. I fact, I know so. I'm able to stand on my own two feet without wobbly knees...which is something I never thought I'd have been able to do. I own my mistakes. Nobody made them but me. And I have to live with them. Lessons learned are the most valuable of all.
My future is uncertain, although none of ours is. I never thought my wife - and best friend - would betray me so deeply and do the things she did. But, I realized that she was on her own path...one that she started a while ago and doesn't include me.
I also learned that not all of it was her fault - it never is really just one person's fault. Well, unless that person is a total sh*t head. I'm aware of my failings. I no longer beat myself up over them - THAT took me a long time to understand. I have a handle on those failings and feel that I have them cornered and locked away, so if/when someone else comes into the picture then I'm ahead of the game on my part.
Of course there are areas where I'm still struggling, and the struggle is real. I'm still struggling with trust. After all, the ex left out some huge and important things that should have been revealed. And that, I do believe, is the source of my trusting issues - just how am I supposed to trust someone again, when I've experienced what I did with my ex?. I mean, the ex totally had me snowed - she hid her past/abuse/etc so well that I never would have guessed. And that's huge. Had she been upfront, things would have been much different. I'm not saying she's a bad person, because she isn't by any means. She's a product of a most f***ed up childhood. I just never knew. How are we, when we don't know someone's hiding stuff? How are we to know if we haven't known that person for years? It puts new people we meet at a disadvantage off the bat.
Most importantly, I no longer need nor seek her. Or her approval. Yet, there are still moments when that ghost materializes and I suspect there always will be for the rest of my life. But, those materializations are few and far between.
This is my life. I own it.
Just checking in and catching up.
Glad to hear you no longer need or seek her. You are back in control of your life. We all make mistakes. It's how we handle going forward that matters. Not the past. Keep doing what you are doing!
Jeep,
Thank you so much for posting and sharing and being honest. I have learned so much from your threads, your struggles, your heartache. You are able to articulate many things I am feeling, but can't put words to like this:
***My future is uncertain, although none of ours is. I never thought my wife - and best friend - would betray me so deeply and do the things she did. But, I realized that she was on her own path...one that she started a while ago and doesn't include me. I also learned that not all of it was her fault - it never is really just one person's fault. Well, unless that person is a total sh*t head. I'm aware of my failings.***
I don't know so much that she HID her past. Most victims of severe abuse, either block it out, try to leave it in the past as to not taint their future (at which time they are thinking they are doing the right thing)or simply cannot face it or deal with it, even thought they know it is there. or they feel awful shame.
I don't believe this was deception.
This is severe, very sad damage.
Hi bsb! Thank you for stopping in!\
Glad to hear you no longer need or seek her. You are back in control of your life. We all make mistakes. It's how we handle going forward that matters. Not the past. Keep doing what you are doing!
That took me a very, very long time to accomplish. There is an eternal sadness that goes along with it, also. A sadness where I realized that she was no longer and most likely never will be a significant part of my life ever again.
But I'm there. I made it. I'm in control and it is one of the best feelings there is. Of course, there are still moments where I may relapse, and I guess there always will be. I guess that's part of human nature. I no longer what-if anymore. I realize that my kids need this part of me and I'll give them the absolute best I can. Because they need that. I'm more scared than ever, but at least I can face it myself.
Thank you again for your support!
Hi Gordie!
Without help like yours I wouldn't be where I am. I don't know about my articulation, though. Haha. I'm a writer by trade so I guess maybe that's where it comes from.
All of you inspire me. I know my advice is off the wall at times, to say the least. Thank you for the kind words.
Hey Ginger!
I don't know so much that she HID her past. Most victims of severe abuse, either block it out, try to leave it in the past as to not taint their future (at which time they are thinking they are doing the right thing)or simply cannot face it or deal with it, even thought they know it is there. or they feel awful shame.
I don't believe this was deception.
This is severe, very sad damage.
You know, I think you may be right. Maybe she didn't hide it to be deceptive. Maybe it wasn't being able to face or deal with it, or maybe it was shame. Whatever it was, it was something that should be shared - especially in something as important and big as marriage. One of my fears is that her cracks may become so big as to affect the children. That's what scares me.
The damage is much greater than you know. I found out that she attempted suicide twice. And texted me about it no less than five times after BD...all of which my lawyer has. She has issues upon issues. I touched on the surface of the abuse she went through in my threads...I never will tell all. Never. It breaks my heart, even now.
It SHOULD be shared, yes. But in her head, I think sharing she believed sharing would have done more damage than good.
The realities of the damage of whatever she suffered is probably unbearable to her, which is why she tried to kill herself twice.
When someone has a life like that, they hope to start over and leave the past WAY behind them. Sadly, they aren't even aware of the damage that will cause themselves and anyone else they love.
I pray your ex finds it in her to begin on a path of healing for herself and for the children.
It SHOULD be shared, yes. But in her head, I think sharing she believed sharing would have done more damage than good.
I feel this, too. I believe that if she did share it would have made me run the other way. I don't think it would have. I will be honest and say, she is an awesome person and has a good heart and will bend over backwards. However, her demons are too strong.
When someone has a life like that, they hope to start over and leave the past WAY behind them. Sadly, they aren't even aware of the damage that will cause themselves and anyone else they love.
I agree. And I think that's one of the reasons she married me. My IC (who was also our MC) put it like this: She had nothing but bad guys (abusers, etc) and I come along and am one of the good guys. However, it was great at first but as time passed, she didn't know what to do with it and "missed" the drama. And her demons took hold. And, she associated my misgivings with abuse on some insane level.
I pray for healing also, but I don't think it will happen. She has on more than one occasion in MC stated that counselors have stopped seeing her because they can't go any further. The gap is too wide, I'm afraid.
My proofing skills are lost again today:
believe that if she did share it
Instead it should be: "believe that if she felt..."
Jeep,
Ginger is probably right about your wife. My wife was severely abused as a child, but it was all repressed. However, she did know about some of the more recent events, but I suspect that even some of those more recent memories didn't occur exactly the way she remembers them. In addition, my wife, like yours, had attempted suicide at least once, but it was long before I knew her.
I remember back when we were dating, she'd had a few drinks and she kept telling me that she had too much baggage and that I should run away. I didn't run away. I didn't know the extent of the damage at the time and I was certain that I could help her through anything. Even if I had known the extent of the abuse, I still wouldn't have run away; I was deeply in love with her.
Over the years we learned more about what really happened. It took years of her waking up, scared to death from the nightmares, before she could identify her abusers. She went through pure hell as a child and had to relive it as an adult as the repressed memories bubbled up into her consciousness.
I would've gladly stayed with her the rest of our lives, but she chose a different path. However, the next time someone tells me they have too much baggage, I'll certainly consider the potential for future complications.
Hey doodler!
I remember back when we were dating, she'd had a few drinks and she kept telling me that she had too much baggage and that I should run away. I didn't run away. I didn't know the extent of the damage at the time and I was certain that I could help her through anything. Even if I had known the extent of the abuse, I still wouldn't have run away; I was deeply in love with her.
There where little flags that popped up every now and then that I just attributed to her quirks and tendencies. I wasn't informed of any abuse until after BD - however, she remembered it all. As with you, I wouldn't have ran. What I would have done was change the way I approached things. I don't have those hard feelings anymore. I'm not sure what I have, anymore. But I still would have tried.
I would've gladly stayed with her the rest of our lives, but she chose a different path. However, the next time someone tells me they have too much baggage, I'll certainly consider the potential for future complications.
I like this. A lot.
Hi Jeep -
**But, I realized that she was on her own path...one that she started a while ago and doesn't include me.**
This one kills me. It's something I think about and is one of the most painful things.
You mention trust. That my friend is a hard one. I could give you platitudes and say you will trust again or you'll know when you trust someone, but I think that's something that you and only you will be able to decide to be open to. When I found out about WH 1st EA was just a few hours after ML and him telling me how much he loved me (while I was pregnant with our 1st child). Trust?? Nope, I don't have it. While you can, and I have, forgiven and moved on - I don't trust. I have not felt "loved" or believed his words in 16 years. It's sad and it's the truth. Will I ever believe another person who walks into my life? Don't know. You won't either until you try.
** This is my life. I own it. **
Love that! Good for you!
She's a product of a most f***ed up childhood. I just never knew. How are we, when we don't know someone's hiding stuff?
Jeep, just (slowly) catching up on your posts.
That part about upbringing ... really resonates with me, as it is a big part of my situation.
The very nature of someone having been deeply affected by their childhood is that ... they themselves are rarely able to see the problem objectively. Your W hiding her past is exactly a part of her problem. A healthier person would have been OK to be open about it, and talk about it, and process it.
It's kind of like what they say about war, that the truth is the first casualty. In an abusive upbringing, the first casualty is often the ability to deal with problems in a healthy way, that nobody can help you, you are above all help.
I'm a firm believer in all of us needing help from each other, all of us needing to listen to others who care about us and observe us with more objectivity.
Hi 010207! (That's a mouthful to type out, so I may say Chewie per your reference. HAHA)
This one kills me. It's something I think about and is one of the most painful things.
You know, this was one of the most difficult things for me to see and accept. I never thought she'd choose a life out of our marriage. Hell, I never thought she'd do the things she did, either - as she has always showed disgust at adultery. Always. I guess that's one of the things I'll chalk up to something I don't need to know. Coming to the realization that she was on her own path just about destroyed me. We were supposed to grow old together, you know?
Will I ever believe another person who walks into my life? Don't know. You won't either until you try
I'm not so sure I ever will. And probably never to the extent that I did her. I trusted her with my life. While you are right, it is up to me, I'm in a place where I just don't know. She was able to keep things under wraps for so long and "hid" them so well, that I just never knew a hint of any trouble. So, to that end, I'm just not sure.
The OM's ex wife and I had coffee a bit ago (we have become semi friends and are friends on FB - something which the ex hates) and had a conversation along the same lines as this - trust. She shared with me that its like they destroyed the best part of us, and in reality, they did. I no longer am the person I once was - the person who would give the benefit of the doubt and trust until it was broken. I'm much more guarded and have built walls that may never come down. Ugh.
Hi Gump!
The very nature of someone having been deeply affected by their childhood is that ... they themselves are rarely able to see the problem objectively. Your W hiding her past is exactly a part of her problem. A healthier person would have been OK to be open about it, and talk about it, and process it.
I agree wholeheartedly. She doesn't see her actions as being a problem. She doesn't view her actions objectively. She also exhibits sociopathic tendencies. Things should never be held in, especially out of fear or shame. It is what it is, I guess.
It's kind of like what they say about war, that the truth is the first casualty. In an abusive upbringing, the first casualty is often the ability to deal with problems in a healthy way, that nobody can help you, you are above all help.
Very well put. That last sentence rings so true with her.
And while I do know that can't be a crutch for her actions, yet I'm not surprised. Maybe one day she will be able to find peace.
Just a few thoughts.
A divorced co-worker and I were talking a bit today when he asked how do you stop the memories? How do you stop thinking about things that bring you pain?
Honestly, I had no answer. I'm in the best place I've been in a long time, and I can't stop the memories. Fortunately, they aren't near as many as they used to be, but they do still pop in every now and then.
For instance, last night I was looking for a book for my son when I came across some old pictures of us (the ex and I) at our (now my) favorite vacation place. I love that place - we used to go every year on Veteran's Day. I didn't go last year, and not sure when I will be able to again. I'm not even sure how it would affect when I do go back, if I even do. I miss that place.
The old pictures flooded the memories. And, yes, some of the old feelings reared up. I suspect that isn't unusual. Probably for the rest of my life. Memories of times when the world was right.
Was I sad? To some extent. I tried not to linger. I tried not to think, yet I did. I'm not sad now. I was a little then, but it was a fleeting moment. I am going to be honest with myself, and say yes, there are parts I miss. The good times and all. But, as another poster said, we can't look back. Only forward. Maybe one day I will take the kids back. They love it.
Memories aren't a bad thing. As long as one doesn't dwell on the what-ifs. But that's the rub - how do you stop that? I couldn't answer for him. I just told him time would ease it. And it will. In time.
I'm thinking you're a bit of a philosopher, Jeep.
I believe this is like a death. You need to go through all the emotional phases. Right now those memories are raw and so sometimes they may hurt. Eventually, when those memories come up again, you'll remember them fondly but with little emotion.
Make new and happy memories, Jeep. That's how you'll come out on the other side.
PS, remind me of this when I find myself on a down slope again
- Chewie
I heard this a couple months back about a survey that divorces take three years to heal and what you feel then will probable stay. Unfortunately it just takes time to heal and every day that goes by will be better.
Hi Chewie!
I'm thinking you're a bit of a philosopher, Jeep.
Me? I'm not so sure about that. I just ramble on a bit and what's in my head tends to fall out, often without a filter...
I believe this is like a death. You need to go through all the emotional phases. Right now those memories are raw and so sometimes they may hurt. Eventually, when those memories come up again, you'll remember them fondly but with little emotion.
I like this analogy, Chewie! I guess they are still kind of raw. And the fact that I can look at those pictures and not go apeshit is proof of what you're saying. Although there is pain still attached, its not near the level it used to be. Granted, there are some pictures that bring about anger, but that's fading, too.
Make new and happy memories, Jeep. That's how you'll come out on the other side.
I'm trying, Chewie. I'm trying.
PS, remind me of this when I find myself on a down slope again
You can count on it, my friend.
I heard this a couple months back about a survey that divorces take three years to heal and what you feel then will probable stay. Unfortunately it just takes time to heal and every day that goes by will be better.
Three years is quite some time. That seems right, though. It's been roughly 1.5 years since BD and I'm in a lot better place now. So who knows.
Jeep,
I've got a problem that's far worse; I can't stop thinking about Harley and I don't even know her. I'm a mess right now.
Jeep,
I've got a problem that's far worse; I can't stop thinking about Harley and I don't even know her. I'm a mess right now.
Hahahahaha
Jeep,
I've got a problem that's far worse; I can't stop thinking about Harley and I don't even know her. I'm a mess right now.
Doodler,
How is it you come up with the craziest stuff? I'm dying over here...
Jeep,
I borrowed from you last night. Things were heated and my W asked how I was feeling. It was a long answer, probably too long but I ended with: I know you are on your own journey and it doesn't include me. She was surprised I said that and said that it does include me. I didn't say another word.
Gordie,
Borrow away, my friend. Good for you on not saying anything else!
Hop over to Tacoma world.
Just some thoughts.
I think we all can say that we've made mistakes. Some far worse than others. It's funny how when someone makes mistakes it can't be overlooked, but when another does, its expected. Its like a knife that cuts only one way.
Hop over to Tacoma world.
Funny, I am also a TW member and owner!
I'm on there, but not this s/n. Not giving it out here.
Funny, I am also a TW member and owner!
As am I, sir!
It starts with "d" and ends with "oodler". Am I sneaky or what?
Bahaha. I'll look you up. Expect inbound.
Got the inbound. One of my coworkers asked if I was happy to see him. I decided to say "yes" and didn't try to explain.
Yep. I don't think I'd have had the willpower to send her back home. I don't know how you did it.
Use that to contact me - give me a heads up sometime. Have some things I won't post on here just yet due to the situations sensitivity with the ex and what recently happened over the weekend
Question time.
My ex has stated many times she wants to "be friends" through it all. I do think that she has used that in some form to guilt me to agreeing with her.
One of the more pressing issues - financials - caused her to say that if I were to take a certain route, it would lead to bad feelings. That certain route would be me getting part of her retirement, to which I'm entitled to.
But it's not just about the retirement or money, every time something comes up that could disrupt her world, she goes back to that "friendly" escape, so to speak. I know she is playing on my emotions, but how does one deal with that? Sometimes I wonder if she is being genuine, or if she is just trying to say anything to get her way.
For instance, the most recent event was when one of her family members slandered me on a public forum. I told the ex that I didn't hold it against her, but at the same time it was unacceptable and that the next time it would be dealt with and left it at that. Her response was that she was done. I didn't ask her what it was and left it alone. I assume she was using the "threat" of her really being done in trying to get me to lighten up or whatever. I just didn't say anything else.
What should I have done?
Hi Jeep74
In the context of my WH, I know what the 'friends' malarkey is all about. It's about assuaging his guilt. In his mind, if I agree to be 'friends', then he doesn't have to feel so bad about what he's done because I'm obviously not so hurt that I can't still be 'friends' with him.
This fits with his self perception that he's a nice guy, a 'good person', and also helps him in the rationalisation that I don't disagree with being left so much, and it is, as he keeps arguing, in all of our best interests, including our 3 year old son's.
Barf puke. MASSIVE eye roll.
I've learned over the years there's a difference between being 'friends' and being 'friendly'. You can be very friendly with someone you are absolutely not friends with.
What our spouses have done to us, they wouldn't have done to their normal 'friends', let alone the one person they were supposed to love, honour and protect. So it makes me so angry when I hear this kind of statement.
So maybe it's just a matter of semantics - when she next brings up this crap, just understand she's confused between the difference between being 'friends' and 'friendly'.
With regards to what you should have done re the slander... Hmm. I think what you did do was perfectly reasonable and I would have done exactly the same thing. I read her response as one of two possibilities - she's manipulating you by threatening you with imminent departure everytime you bring up something that makes her unhappy - she's keeping you in line - or she's just 'done' with negativity. It may be that she's under stress and she just doesn't want to talk about anything that isn't about rainbows and unicorns in a glittery pink universe where we are all 'friends'.
Its funny how perspective changes over time, from what we thought was so important to things we never would have considered.
When I was in the midst of the darkest times I drove myself hard to find any evidence to support the gut feeling of her affair. It was like an obsession that drove me just about over the cliff. I'm not exactly sure why I did that. I still loved my wife and wanted to get her back, but I'm not sure why I drove myself that hard. Anything that could be done, I did it. Now, looking back, I don't have an answer as to why. I do feel that the not knowing may be what pushed me. I do find myself wondering now just what I would have done if I did find out during that time. Maybe it's a good thing that I got out of that mindset when I did actually find out. Who knows.
I still miss my ex wife. I miss the good times we had and I suspect I always will. I miss the times when the world was right. You know? An old friend (whom I'll call T) from when we were stationed in a far away place called me last night and we had a nice, long talk about how things are and were. T had told me that she first noticed a changes in my ex around the time we found out we were having a girl. Small changes at first, but changes nonetheless. I noticed some, but not much. Whenever I questioned the ex, she lied as usual. However, when my D reached the age my ex's abuse started, that's when T told me she noticed the biggest change. She had said it was almost like a light switched had been flipped. I noticed that, too. But the ex refused to fill me in, just making convincing excuses. Sigh.
I'm still learning who I am. Looking back, I never saw the forest but just concentrated on pockets of trees - some consumed me beyond belief. Now I see the forest and the path that created it. There is still much sadness around that, because I know that things could have been different...and that is something that still haunts me, even now.
I'm finally in a place where I can look back without breaking down. It's almost like I'm looking in on someone else's life now. I see things objectively. But I still have trust issues. Maybe that will ease over time. Maybe it won't. I wonder if the ex really didn't destroy my trust as much as I thought she did due to her past. Maybe that is the case. Maybe the ex was just doing the only thing she knew to do and how she knew to do it. Maybe she's stuck in survival mode. I don't have that answer, and maybe never will.
A friend once asked me would I take my ex back if she would seek the real help she needs and made an effort to recommit. I would. But I can't wait or hope for that to happen, because deep down I know she won't. She's moved on and I don't matter any more. It is what it is.
Hi 2016! Thanks for stopping in!
This fits with his self perception that he's a nice guy, a 'good person', and also helps him in the rationalisation that I don't disagree with being left so much, and it is, as he keeps arguing, in all of our best interests, including our 3 year old son's.
Wow. This seems so much like my ex's mindset. She thinks she is such a 'good person' that she can't do any wrong.
So maybe it's just a matter of semantics - when she next brings up this crap, just understand she's confused between the difference between being 'friends' and 'friendly'.
Thank you for that. I never would have even considered that maybe she is just confused between the two.
With regards to what you should have done re the slander... Hmm. I think what you did do was perfectly reasonable and I would have done exactly the same thing. I read her response as one of two possibilities - she's manipulating you by threatening you with imminent departure everytime you bring up something that makes her unhappy - she's keeping you in line - or she's just 'done' with negativity. It may be that she's under stress and she just doesn't want to talk about anything that isn't about rainbows and unicorns in a glittery pink universe where we are all 'friends'.
You know, on more than one occasion early after BD and even up to the divorce, she had mentioned that she thinks we can be really good friends and all would be good. Maybe her glittery pink universe isn't really matching her reality.
***My ex has stated many times she wants to "be friends" through it all.***
In my situation, I don't have a problem with this theoretically, but from what you say, I could see it being problem for you (given the lies and lack of trust).
***I do think that she has used that in some form to guilt me to agreeing with her.***
If you feel she is manipulating you, then she is probably manipulating you.
***One of the more pressing issues - financials - caused her to say that if I were to take a certain route, it would lead to bad feelings. That certain route would be me getting part of her retirement, to which I'm entitled to.***
On this stuff, you have to follow your instincts (and your L's advice). I think there's a spectrum of responses, from being a doormat to being fair to being an a$$. As others have said, everyone loses.
***But it's not just about the retirement or money, every time something comes up that could disrupt her world, she goes back to that "friendly" escape, so to speak. I know she is playing on my emotions, but how does one deal with that? Sometimes I wonder if she is being genuine, or if she is just trying to say anything to get her way.***
Again, if you feel like you are being manipulated, then you are probably being manipulated. XW can stil play with your emotions!
***For instance, the most recent event was when one of her family members slandered me on a public forum. I told the ex that I didn't hold it against her, but at the same time it was unacceptable and that the next time it would be dealt with and left it at that.***
If it was one of her family member's over whom she has no control, why did you bring this up at all with her? What was the point? And what did you mean by it being dealt with?
***Her response was that she was done. I didn't ask her what it was and left it alone. I assume she was using the "threat" of her really being done in trying to get me to lighten up or whatever. I just didn't say anything else.***
I'm not sure what she was done means. She was done with the conversation? She is done with trying to be your friend? When I don't know what to say or feel like I'm about to say the wrong thing, I think of Caliguys' STFU smoothie and take a big gulp.
Hey Gordie!
Again, if you feel like you are being manipulated, then you are probably being manipulated. XW can stil play with your emotions!
Yeah.... I know, I know...
If it was one of her family member's over whom she has no control, why did you bring this up at all with her? What was the point? And what did you mean by it being dealt with?
Good question. I did it because she has some influence over this crazy person. Dealt with would not have been good. I'd have opened a few eyes and shut that down.
When I don't know what to say or feel like I'm about to say the wrong thing, I think of Caliguys' STFU smoothie and take a big gulp.
I like this. A lot!
Jeep,
Before we separated, my wife suggested the friend thing. I've forgotten exactly what I said, but I think it was something like, "F**k that noise!" Apparently that worked.
Jeep,
Before we separated, my wife suggested the friend thing. I've forgotten exactly what I said, but I think it was something like, "F**k that noise!" Apparently that worked.
Bahahahahah
I like your way of thinking! Maybe I need to tell her that!
I like your way of thinking! Maybe I need to tell her that!
Jeep,
I don't know if that was good or bad. After I grew a pair, apparently I enjoyed the tough-guy routine (that was a 180 for sure). I'd make short speeches, similar to things Samuel L. Jackson says in his movies, "I will reign-down on you with a firestorm that would make Satan cringe..." It wasn't until then that I realized bullies get a lot of positive reinforcement from bullying. Those were the days.
don't know if that was good or bad. After I grew a pair, apparently I enjoyed the tough-guy routine
HAHA. What was her reaction to that?
HAHA. What was her reaction to that?
Jeep,
She believed what I said, and with good reason, I meant everything I said. After I told her to move out, she called me and told me it'd take awhile to get movers to come to the house so she could move. I told her to pick up the phone call the movers and get out. Timid doodler was riding the wave.
To be clear though, I'm the same nice I've always been, but I won't allow myself to be used as a doormat. By the way, the OM doesn't come near my sons; for some reason he thinks I'll break his neck. Strange.
Doodler,
She believed what I said, and with good reason, I meant everything I said. After I told her to move out, she called me and told me it'd take awhile to get movers to come to the house so she could move. I told her to pick up the phone call the movers and get out. Timid doodler was riding the wave.
For the longest time I thought that if I lived with the "friendly" routine it would make a difference. However, it did not. Not in the least. I wouldn't call myself timid by any stretch, but with the ex I guess I was for some reason. Not sure why.
To be clear though, I'm the same nice I've always been, but I won't allow myself to be used as a doormat. By the way, the OM doesn't come near my sons; for some reason he thinks I'll break his neck. Strange.
Same here. I told the OM that I'd break his legs. And he knew that I would have done it.
By the way, Doodler, you have more willpower than I do.
Jeep,
Before we separated, my wife suggested the friend thing. I've forgotten exactly what I said, but I think it was something like, "F**k that noise!" Apparently that worked.
Doodler--you are a legend!
Doodler--you are a legend!
^ What he said
Just some thoughts.
They say it's the hidden land mines that you really have to watch out for. Sadly, I've come to the conclusion that is true. In our situations, more often than not the issues come from the out of sight things that we don't even know are there. Sure, there are glaring problems - and if we can't see those huge flashing radar blips, then that is on us. But, I'm talking about the land mines that have been strewn and covered very, very well.
Some of the threads have really gotten me to thinking about the demise of a marriage, especially when one (the LBS) thinks things are running smoothly and there aren't any problems. Mine is the perfect example, but not typical due to the issues she had. But still, some lessons can be learned - especially on my end.
What causes a spouse to decide to call it quits when things are apparently running smoothly? Let me ask ya'll this - are relationships healthier with an occasional fight, or are ones where fights don't occur healthier? I ask because in my marriage there was never a fight. Not one. My ex mentioned something only once and kept things bottled up, which as we all know is unhealthy, but then again she wasn't exactly the poster child of good mental health.
Personally, I think a fight is healthy - as long as it is a mature argument and doesn't include any violence or something like that. Maybe argument is a better choice of word for those that need more subtle language. I remember my ex saying that her grandparents (she put their marriage on a pedestal and tried to compare ours) never argued or the like and that there was never anything wrong - something that I found out to be a complete falsehood, but the ex totally believed it. Seems that she had this fantasy of what a marriage should be - one that started in childhood as a safe space - even though real marriages are nothing like the one she dreamed up.
I recall my IC (who was also our MC) saying that because of this fairy tale scenario of hers, she associated some of my things with being abusive, even though they weren't in any form. I can't remember the word the IC used, but she was associating my/our "problems" with abuse on some level - maybe because it wasn't as perfect in her book and she was looking for an excuse to run as she has always done.
Maybe some questions are better left unanswered and maybe some never will be answered. Sometimes true closure never happens...
Some of the threads have really gotten me to thinking about the demise of a marriage, especially when one (the LBS) thinks things are running smoothly and there aren't any problems. Mine is the perfect example, but not typical due to the issues she had. But still, some lessons can be learned - especially on my end.
What causes a spouse to decide to call it quits when things are apparently running smoothly? Let me ask ya'll this - are relationships healthier with an occasional fight, or are ones where fights don't occur healthier? I ask because in my marriage there was never a fight. Not one. My ex mentioned something only once and kept things bottled up, which as we all know is unhealthy, but then again she wasn't exactly the poster child of good mental health.
Personally, I think a fight is healthy - as long as it is a mature argument and doesn't include any violence or something like that. Maybe argument is a better choice of word for those that need more subtle language. I remember my ex saying that her grandparents (she put their marriage on a pedestal and tried to compare ours) never argued or the like and that there was never anything wrong - something that I found out to be a complete falsehood, but the ex totally believed it. Seems that she had this fantasy of what a marriage should be - one that started in childhood as a safe space - even though real marriages are nothing like the one she dreamed up.
I recall my IC (who was also our MC) saying that because of this fairy tale scenario of hers, she associated some of my things with being abusive, even though they weren't in any form. I can't remember the word the IC used, but she was associating my/our "problems" with abuse on some level - maybe because it wasn't as perfect in her book and she was looking for an excuse to run as she has always done.
Jeep you are owning the boards lately! Keep the posting up. I think I agree. A fight is healthy now and again. WW and I never fought and look where that got us. Keeping stuff bottled up is a terrible course to take.
Hi Pinn! Thanks for stopping in!
Jeep you are owning the boards lately! Keep the posting up. I think I agree. A fight is healthy now and again. WW and I never fought and look where that got us. Keeping stuff bottled up is a terrible course to take.
Thanks, but I'm not sure about that. I will be honest and say that posting/helping is very therapeutic for me, even with me now being in the position I'm in. I learn something new every day, which is a great thing. I figure if I'm helping at least one, then that is one that is having an easier time than I did.
Good on all of yall! Each and every one of yall are my inspiration. I'm still fighting the fight, and I suspect always will in some form.
I agree, things never should be kept bottled up. Never.
Good morning, Jeep.
Mature arguments are healthy. You get to vent, address and hopefully resolve a problem. Children witnessing a mature argument learn too. They learn how to have a mature argument and learn that you can disagree and still have a great loving relationship when the argument is over.
My in laws were just like your wife's grandparents. When they announced thry were getting divorced it rocked everyone. They were June and Ward Cleaver, how is this possible? Because they hid it. Nobody knew what was happening behind closed doors. Their children have issues because of it. Their D is now divorced and their S is on his way down that path too. They never taught their children conflict resolution snd look where it got the entire family.
Learn how to lovingly, respectfully argue with your other half. You will all be better for it.
Hi Chewie!
My in laws were just like your wife's grandparents. When they announced thry were getting divorced it rocked everyone. They were June and Ward Cleaver, how is this possible? Because they hid it. Nobody knew what was happening behind closed doors. Their children have issues because of it. Their D is now divorced and their S is on his way down that path too. They never taught their children conflict resolution snd look where it got the entire family.
You know, I never correlated the two before. My ex and her sister are now both divorced. Like yours, the ex's grandparents never showed them what was happening behind closed doors. I think maybe one reason was due to them rescuing the two from their terrible situation and taking them in to live in their house...I guess so they wouldn't see conflict and all. Maybe to shield them? Who knows. But they never taught them that important aspect in life. Just as you said, now look at where it got them. Even the ex's half brother and sister are divorced at least once. That ENTIRE family is a mess. And I fear it will seep into the children's lives.
My in laws were just like your wife's grandparents. When they announced thry were getting divorced it rocked everyone. They were June and Ward Cleaver, how is this possible? Because they hid it. Nobody knew what was happening behind closed doors. Their children have issues because of it. Their D is now divorced and their S is on his way down that path too. They never taught their children conflict resolution snd look where it got the entire family.
Sadly, I'm afraid that this is what our D is going to do to our children. Everyone, including me and the children, thought W and I were happy together. I'm reading a book on D and children now that points out this risk...that when there is no apparent conflict, the kids can't understand it at all...
Sadly, I'm afraid that this is what our D is going to do to our children. Everyone, including me and the children, thought W and I were happy together. I'm reading a book on D and children now that points out this risk...that when there is no apparent conflict, the kids can't understand it at all...
Gordie, I'm with you. My kids had NO CLUE it was coming. None. And my ex kept saying that they would be great and not have any problems. She is still living in her own little dream world and either dumb enough to not see or doesn't want to see. Either way, its damaging to the kids. Damage that I am trying to hard to ease.
Watch your wife carefully. Mine had this grand idea of using the time while she is living in the other state to sort of prep the kids, get them used to the idea of Dad and mom apart. However, that didn't work. And they hurt because of it. They are also starting to see things and I suspect that questions - real, truth seeking ones - will start soon. I told the ex from day one that I would answer honestly. And I will.
This whole thing is backfiring on her. Just a little proof - today there was in incident and my little girl told the school to call me so I could help her out. Didn't call the ex. What does that tell you?
Gordie, (and others)
This just came to me. A divorced co-worker and I just had this conversation concerning kids and divorce. He told me some pretty frightening things.
Be very mindful of what the kids are saying about their mom, the time there, etc. Seems that parental alienation is hitting him hard. His ex is telling his kids things like he doesn't really want them, he's just a half dad, etc.
That kind of thing scares the bejeezus out of me. Ever since my ex told my son that he needed to spend more time with her than me, I have been very mindful of what they say. I will ask every once in a while, but not so much as to make them wonder. Just enough. It's sad to think that ex's more often than not will say even little things to the kids to sway them.
How does one undo that damage? I just make sure my kids know that I love them and am there for them. Hopefully that will be enough.
Argument is good in any marriage as long as it does not get out of hand. Now with the kids and D I have not heard anything good form that. Even with my kids being young adults they to are not taking it very well. There really in not age that someone will take it well. D represents failure. I have looked through statistics on D and they are quit alarming on how much problems it causes all the way around for everyone.
D represents failure. I have looked through statistics on D and they are quit alarming on how much problems it causes all the way around for everyone.
The sad thing is, the ex's don't even consider the damage. It's all about them.
I agree with you. Mine is the same way. But that is the addictive state of mind. The thing is, is that over 70% of females regret getting a divorce down the road when the fog lifts and they realize that the grass is not greener on the other side.
Hmmm, interesting thoughts...My W and I never fought either, I didn't really keep stuff bottled up, maybe she did? We got along so good and everything clicked from the beginning. All of our friends and families were shocked as well when they found out, they thought we were the perfect couple...blah blah...heck even my W said "I don't know why I am doing this, we never fight, have the perfect relationship and everyone loves you".
She didn't want to be "content"....chasing that stupid fairytale life that doesn't exist.
Mine must be in that 30% then, cause there isn't a chance in Hades of that ever happening. She's done. Funny thing is, I most likely would have said lets give it a whirl again.
Yes that could very well be. From what I understand this is taken years after the D.
That may be. I guess only time will tell.
Something that's been on my mind lately:
Vacations after divorce. As I have mentioned before, there is a place that we used to go every Veteran's Day. I'd like to go back in the next couple of years with the kids as it is one of our favorites (my absolute favorite). The thing is, it would be strange without the ex being there, as we went ever since we were dating. I'm not sure how it would affect me. The kids, it won't, but me, well I'm not sure.
Have any of you ever done that? Does it bring back memories?
Everything will bring back memories for the rest of your life. It is more important how emotionally detached you are. If you get to a point that little things are not bothering you like they use to then move on the the big things.
Completely agree with Seeker. I'd like to believe given enough time the memories won't haunt us anymore
Everything will bring back memories for the rest of your life. It is more important how emotionally detached you are. If you get to a point that little things are not bothering you like they use to then move on the the big things.
True, true. I'm past the point where little things don't set me off any more. I'd like to say that I'm OK to ride off into the sunset and be done with her. Maybe I am. But I have found that I no longer linger anymore.
Hi Chewie!
I'd like to believe given enough time the memories won't haunt us anymore
You know, for the longest time the memories would haunt me to no end. And it would be the little things that set it off. I'd like to say that my journey through the forest and subsequent exit has allowed that ghost to leave. In some aspect, it has. But, the ghost will always be there I believe.
I hope that I can do another vacation back there. I'm going to be honest, I took the kids on a mini-vacation at the end of summer - sort of a back to school thing. Just us. We stayed in a hotel, went to the zoo, and then drove a bit to our favorite aircraft carrier. We had a good, no make that great, time. It was odd without the ex, but I didn't miss her not being there. The kids didn't really talk about her, either...just a little here and there.
See, you've done it once, you can do it again. Will it be the same? Nope. Maybe it will be better. Life is fluid, move with it.
Chewie,
Seems like you are in good spirits!
I agree, life is fluid...but with the occasional rock in the way. I'd like to think it would be a better visit. Maybe it will, who knows.
This whole thing just stinks.
I am, Jeep with no reason for why. He started again on me this morning but I'm just going with the flow. I'm tired. Ya know what I mean?
Stinks? That's a mild word for it, lol. But I agree.
-Chewie
I am, Jeep with no reason for why. He started again on me this morning but I'm just going with the flow. I'm tired. Ya know what I mean?
Whatever it is, its working for you. Good for you. I know exactly what you mean. I'm way beyond tired, too. Sigh. One day.
Soooooo.....
This morning as I was looking for something I found a recorder - one of those voice activated types - hidden away in the living room in the entertainment center. I know it's been there for a while because the ex hasn't been in the house for a long time (unless she came up from FL while I was at work and went in) - mind you, I live the same house we used to live in.
I will report later on it as the battery was dead. I'm thinking it was put there before/during the divorce period to try to catch me doing something. I have a feeling that I will be doing more looking this weekend.
Wow, that is weird, but don't jump to any conclusions. It may not have been your XW...maybe it was the CIA/FBI/KGB! But that's some sloppy spy work...leaving it behind...
Haha. I have no doubt it was the ex. I know because she snooped all in my stuff. I set up alerts on every thing I had - but I also changed the password to everything but one thing...one of my social media accounts (not FB) that I knew she'd look in. And guess what? It was accessed from her phone. I wonder if erasing everything on there (after I listened, of course) and recording a porn or something would do anything.
Of course, that would mean she'd have to look again...but then again, she hasn't gotten all of her stuff yet.
Wow Jeep, that's devious. I hope Gordie's right and it's not what you think it is
Now Chewie,
Wow Jeep, that's devious. I hope Gordie's right and it's not what you think it is
Are you saying that you are hoping it was the one of the govt agencies and not the ex?
But then again, I have all ideas that it was either put during the midst of her affair of after she was outed and trying to find stuff on me.
Jeep,
The suspense is killing me. How long will it be before we find out what was on the recorder?
The suspense is killing me. How long will it be before we find out what was on the recorder?
Doodler, all you will find - if there is anything - is of me and the kids. Batteries don't run long in those things (typically 24 - 48 hours of decent use) and it appears to have been in there a bit. I imagine it died a few months ago.
But then again, I have all ideas that it was either put during the midst of her affair of after she was outed and trying to find stuff on me.
Yeah, for what reason or benefit would she try to destroy you (more than she already had with the A)? Is it to get more $ or custody (which she doesn't care about)...
Also, does it really matter at this point?
Hi 10!
I think it may have been put there as justification (remember, her mind works differently). Reason, she had opened my phone and screenshot one of my contacts and sent it to the OM. When confronted, she replied that she thought I was messing around to.
And, you're right. At this point it doesn't matter. I just found it funny, I guess.
It's a good thing I didn't have a customer on the phone, I literally burst out laughing. And if one of those organizations was listening, then maybe you're a whole lot more fun than your wife was giving you credit for. Lol
Why thank you, Chewie. So I have been told...
Also, if it were one of those organizations, they might be using something a little smaller, less obvious, than a Radio Shack recorder.
Bahaha. Ya'll are killing me today
You know, in my discussions with a friend, I find that I can look back on the great dates with my ex and not feel sad. I guess that's a good thing, no?
It really is. Keep it up.
- Chewie
Thank you, Chewie. Thank you.