Intentional Abuse. Boundaries and Self-Improvement

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New Thread - Old Thread ^^^^^^^

So despite trying to drown myself with the Christmas drinks cabinet yesterday I survived

and feel surprisingly spritely. Parents are staying kids are here and I have all but the present wrapping done.

I was talking to M last night saying how 'waiting for Christmas' with everything in hand is weird (I might even do the sprouts today so I can just pop them on......). W would appear in control - but the wheels would come off later on and she would build up to a spew. My family was always in control and Christmas was always peaceful. Just us 4. The odd visitor etc. W's would often be parties, drinks, busy, busy, Rush, Rush activity. It's things like this that highlight the differences and FOO stuff plays a hugh part in the unrealistic expectations of the WS IMO. I think there is a lot of looking at what 'their life should have been like' and there in lies much of the problem. The LBS has the same problem often too. It's a two way street. It is also clear from the Verbally Abusive Relationship book that my W has been a controller - manipulative and abusive to get her ways. Don't get me wrong on this we all display these traits but it's whether you apologise for them when pulled up for being sharp, harsh, grumpy (all abuse) or whether you deny, escalate etc. My family has always been forgive and forget nothing is worth falling out. Hers are grudge holders, they don't speak for years to their own siblings etc. Yes I fell in love with her and 'did' love her so much. She is different to that person now though and therefore my feelings are far more detached. Yet when I speak to her and we laugh (we did yesterday) I can see her through her fog. That person I would die for and I love and miss so dearly. But to recognise that she is gone is so hard at times. Yet that is just the simple matter of fact a fact I would be wasting time and energy denying. I didn't even buy her a Christmas card this year - one from the kids and some cost PJ's from them. But nothing from me - 180!

Hey. It Christmas. The future is around the corner and you know what, all this aside, doesn't it look like a place with amazing potential.....

Merry Christmas

Surfer.

Good insight surfer. Merry Christmas to you!

Surfer,

It is my prayer that this is the springboard for an authentic and joyous life for you. You have done amazing work on yourself, shown a lot of insight and have faced some hard truths. You are an amazing man and it's my privilege to have you as my internet friend. Have a fantastic Christmas!

Thank you Jug. I hope you have a lovely festive season.

Awww Sara. So kind. Bless you and you your children - particularly over the Christmas period. I want to share something for you. I was talking through things with my Mum earlier. All of this has rocked her so hard. Her health has really deteriorated from the worry. Anyway she said "The way you talk about your career achievements, your pride in your success, I am proud of those things too. But what far outstrips that and makes me so, so proud is how you are dealing with things so your children are as close to 100% solid as they can be (and they are solid)."

You see Sara, I have this pride too for you. It is so hard what you are doing yet you are doing it. It's a path that only a very special person can walk and don't you forget that! Your children will look back at these days and will reflect on your character. It will give them a valuable datum when they need guidance in life.

Surfer.

Merry Christmas Surfer. Take care of yourself, those Christmas drinks can help sometimes though.

I need to catch up on everyone's sitches over the Christmas period. But sending lots of love to you, and I hope you and the kids have had a peaceful and lovely Christmas

Thanks CT and Cherry.

Yes, but there are 'drinks' and drinks!!!! - ha ha. Now Christmas is done, I my body can recover. Really looking forward to the gym......I'm going to get my routine on before New Year!

Surfer.

I am over the hump. 1st Xmas separate. Had kids eve and xmas day, W invited, no show. Parents came, never cooked a turkey before. Totally smashed it even a 80's style prawn cocktail starter (poor George Michael - I think my 80's style starter was befitting). D9 and S6 thanked me so many times for xmas, they have just been totally happy. So have I given the quantity of alcohol consumed

. D6 even said "can I have my birthday here next time Dad?" If that's not a sign of my kids being totally protected and loved then I don't know what is.

If you are, like me, the LBS with a WS that rages, spews etc and you are making it through the fear and all the crap by just pushing on, know that you can do it, you will be seen for what you are doing and you will look back and smile. Why? Because you will know and your kids will know that you did not cause this but you did cause them to be protected so they could grow up as the great people they will become. They will know that because they are a reflection of you.

Surfer.

That was such a great post, I mean that - last paragraph especially. Complete FK to the Yeah! Way to focus on the right things. I mean that. So much about this is like a bad picture from a smart phone...you think you are taking a picture of your family or something, but then you look at it and the camera focused on the cup on the table instead of the people. We thought the phone was smart, but it didn't do what we thought it would do. Like our WS, we thought they were smart, but they see things out of focus and we expected them to see the world as we do. They don't.

You got the right things in focus Surfer. Made my night reading this supreme positivity. Thanks.

So. I am getting a bit bored with all of this. I'm am coming to terms with the fact that I don't like who my wife now is and I believe she was always this person but was hiding her personality. I also believe I have the skills to help my children and I will be financially secure even after her intended D. I would not invite her back or have her back if not fully baked. I doubt very strongly that my wife can even acknowledge any part in all of this and therefore I must accept that it is very possible that there will be no reconciliation. Without her change there will be none. I am kind of okay with that. I am not going to progress or pursue the D, I am going to leave that to to her.

So where are we. NC unless about kids pick up/drops. I don't always answer and if I can avoid it I don't respond to texts and messages unless I need to.

My W is 100% a Verbal Abuser and manipulator who has unrealistic expectations. I have faults too but it's definitely gone too far for her - she has spread the history rewritten, propoganda too far, wide and hard. I have pretty much zero expectations in terms of her and therefore and R/M.

The kids were due to arrive around 6. They stayed with her at her M&Ds from 6pm Christmas Day. I did the whole lot, presents, traditions, turkey etc. Kids were so happy and grateful. Both thanked me and S6 asked if he could have his birthday here next time - presumably I throw a good festive/birthday event - or he gets lots of pressies? LoL. W has just sat with kids at her parents and been fed, watered and validated giving kids and iPad to occupy them. I hope they see that I 'do' things with them. I am sure they do. BTW played 'Bean Boozled' after dinner - not very tasty! They liked it though. Anyway, bit of a moan as she is disappointing as a M at times yesterday makes out she is mother Teresa. Anyway, just an observation.

W texted me at 2.30 saying she can drop kids. She has not responded to one text over Christmas so I know she wants something. Given the drop was due at 6 I said no. I had things to do and some GAL I had planned. She saI'd she needed to drop by 4 as her and MIL are going to theatre, I just said sorry, didn't know and can't help you. She dropped a few threats in minors stuff "if you don't I'll take them to BIL miles away and you will have to drive all that way to collect", I just said okay, let them know I'll be a bit later than 6 but will do my best. She then totally changed plans and had her cousin drop them here at 6. Kids are totally happy. Just cuddling D6 who is asleep in his "new bed" - got him a special football duvet set for one of his presents. This magistrate mark his return to his bed.p - I hope so, he has been sleeping with me for a while. I hope he feels secure enough to stay in bed by himself. If not he can climb in with me. It's sad to think he might be growing up and not need a cuddle as much though. Bless him.

Surfer.

I haven't been able to pry my kids out of my bed with a crow bar, lol! I started out co-sleeping because I was BFing and it was immensely helpful catching sleep while feeding the babies. But it became such a habit that I ended up buying a kind size bed and now all three kids are in my room, two in my bed.

I am still a bit passive with my children. Oftentimes I will watch something on tv while they watch cartoons on their ipads while cuddling with me. I call it my "benign neglect" parenting.

But it's become such a routine we are comfortable doing it. I do read them a bedtime story so I am not a total ogre. (if you can't tell I speaking with tongue firmly planted in cheek)

I am 100% satisfied that my M will no longer work. She is now raising the bar (with lies and manipulation) so she can spew and push the D with everyone's support it seems.

So, after her attempts to manipulate my pick up time yesterday, I resisted and stuck to my guns, kids were dropped off at the agreed time, my W is now at it again. We agreed kids would go back to her at 4.30pm tomorrow. She has now texted to say she will pick up at 3pm "as agreed" (gaslighting/a lie). That is simply not happening. I can send her details on the joint calendar which she needs to check if she needs it. Its appalling that I have to do this. She is simply trying to gaslight me and manipulate.

Surfer.

Sara,

My S is over 6.5yrs. You have plenty of time to enjoy those cuddles - I suggest you do! Once they end, they end forever

Surfer.

Originally Posted By: Surfer

I am 100% satisfied that my M will no longer work. She is now raising the bar (with lies and manipulation) so she can spew and push the D with everyone's support it seems.

So, after her attempts to manipulate my pick up time yesterday, I resisted and stuck to my guns, kids were dropped off at the agreed time, my W is now at it again. We agreed kids would go back to her at 4.30pm tomorrow. She has now texted to say she will pick up at 3pm "as agreed" (gaslighting/a lie). That is simply not happening. I can send her details on the joint calendar which she needs to check if she needs it. Its appalling that I have to do this. She is simply trying to gaslight me and manipulate.

Surfer.

Stay the course surfer...
Keep emotion out of it, keep the details in order and documented...
Then do as you mentioned...
Show her the calendar as agreed.

I know this challenge as I recently let the emotion get the best of me, because I let her sprinkle just enough truth with lies, and I doubted myself, reacted, and regret it...
I had my ducks in a row, but emotion seeped through...

Do not worry or think on " if you are satisfied the M is over"
That is emotion sneaking in...that emotion is irrelevant...

You are on the right track...stay strong...stay focused my friend.

SH

Thank you.

I'm not going to file for D but crikey I am so bored with this person. I don't even like her. The person she was was fake I believe and this is the reality.

I am worried how she is manipulating things, the kids etc. I guess if I look at it as staying the course to understand and protect them and me that's fine. But certainly, it's much easier to work on detaching without any desire to be in the same room.

Surfer.

Even if you D this woman it would not end this behavior from her. So like SH said, remain firm, if she shows to pick up the kids at 3 pm you can inform her that the agreed upon time is 4:30. Or you could simply not be home and bring the girls around 4:30 back home. If she spews then REMAIN calm and validate, validate, validate. Do not let this loose cannon shake you. You know what's what and stay the course.

Sara,

Thank you.

I know. You are so right. It's good to have you as my wing man (in a dress). I appreciate your kindness and your understanding and most importantly I appreciate your journey and why you are a very welcome helper.

Remember, I do believe you are doing the right thing. With 3 exceptions.

1 - Self doubt. No, you are amazingtastic - look at how much stronger your kids are for how you are. Amazingtastic!
2 - Anger. You must learn control. Have you downloaded Headspace or Calm yet?
3 - GAL. A must - you must get a break (regularly) my friend.

Surfer.

So journaling....

Kids in bed. Last night D9 told me at bedtime (when she talks about her feelings) that she feels sad, but doesn't know why
(I am worried, but totally calm, at this point).

We talk she offers some vague reasons, which are clearly untrue. Then tears flow. It's M is not here and I don't know if I prefer (M's shouting - I learned not to) or being apart. D9's LL is family time. She is breaking my heart as she talks. I validate and tell her I miss M too but we never control anyone other than ourselves, thoughts, actions etc.

She says she is worried that the feeling of sadness might not go and she doesn't know why its here. I tell her about Rumi and The Guest House (please google this if you are reading this) and sometimes feelings just come and go and its good to know how you feel but its good not to ruminate (I wonder if that's where 'ruminate' comes from IDK). Anyway, I explained that sadness is like an old friend - a bit grumpy always but you know them and they come and go. But you know them. Obviously I said this over time with lots of talk. I am trying to be brief here.

D9 then moved onto Christmas. W would not visit. Invited but no. She said W said it would be awkward but Grandma would make her feel at home (if I couldn't). All true. She said M is just being selfish.

I said why not talk to M about how you feel. But also, know that we will always be happy together. She then made me laugh, she belly laughed cuddled lots and I reassured her in the only way dads can. Lots f kisses and cuddles and it will be alright conversation. I also told her I miss M too but its just time to let M be her.

Today was lovely. They played with pressies and I just bakes turkey pie for the kids (D6 wanted a dinosaur on his - he got that and a volcano and a terradactial [sp] - I am quite arty; D9 got smiley faces and love hearts). All got eaten.

D9 called W and spoke to her about her feelings today. W gaslighted her on it would have been difficult on xmas day and she stayed away for Kids. It soothed D9 - so good. But its gaslighting as my W is the one that creates the ill feeling. She controls that anger.

I am worried she will manipulate her world into the FOO she experienced. My job is to fill her with love and kindness and not control so she can break a family cycle of this.

As I learn and grow. I know this is my duty and its all well within my grasp.

Surfer.

So today has been hard. But Surfer is fine. Surf's up!

W wanted to change our agreed times for drop off. I took PsySara's advice. Took the kids bowling but was polite enough to tell her not to call as we were still out.

To cut a very long story short, kids were happy when I dropped them. W made every attempt to spew. Including texts and VM's. I dropped the kids at a distance and explained. I went. I told them M might be stressed. D9 said I thin she feels guilty and is taking it out on others (you D). My daughter that is so clever, she understands projection at 9. S said I am scared to see M. I said don't be silly it's M.

The "fear" came back today. Of my W. It was strong and I imagine this is how a battered wife feels. My boundaries were set and enforced. I even had WW phone my parents to speak to my M - who has chronic health issues - partly exacerbated by years of stress with this. D did a great job of validating and side stepping the tricky stuff. She hung up on him. He is the kindest, simplest man (I don't mean that in a rude way) he just listened and knowing the story said we don't take sides. I hear you though. W hung up on this man. And he is a man. Total respect for him for this.

I need to focus on the kids. S is a pleaser. I need to show him to be strong when faced with fear. D is great on emotional intelligence. I will work with her to understand that the feelings of others are theirs alone and our own are transient (I quoted Rumi - The Guest House when she was 'sad' and scared it would not go the other night.). I will make them robust. They will be able to fight all sorts of fears after this and they will remember their D being someone that never threw M under the bus and always said he loved her but its sometimes difficult - even though W is just gaslighting them.

Inside, through all this, I feel fear too. To look at me, you would find a strapping, successful and wealthy intelligent and (might I add) not too shabby looking chap that cares. Some lady, some day, will feel like they have hit the jackpot. I know this. My kids already do I am the jackpot. Jackpot Dad.

Whatever you are going through, no matter how dark. Light will come. I promise.

Surfer.

Surfer

Good for you and hanging tough. I believe you did as well as could be expected for your current learning state, gathering of thoughts and advice and current situation.

I am going to challenge you a bit now.
Sit down and ponder on what I am going to challenge you with.

As it is almost the new year and resolutions and goals and all of that fun stuff is in order...
I am challenging you to take a solution oriented approach now.
Sound familiar?
DB principle here.

You have read about verbal abuse.
You have shared that you now identify it and recognize it.
You have even shared that you have been guilty of doing it as we all have.
You share what you have learned with others.

You share that you were hit with Fear today.

My challenge to you, as I have challenged you previously...
I challenge you to read, practice and make habit some things that will benefit you.

The is how you overcome fear.
This is how anyone that is faced with fear will overcome it.

You can read all you want about the dangers of climbing Mount Everest...and you should read and learn of the dangers so you can identify and be prepared...

But you will only overcome the fear by climbing Mount Everest and facing the dangers and your fear head on.

You have read about verbal abuse.
Your wife is guilty of this...only she can change it.
In her control
You have committed verbal abuse as you mentioned...you recognized and apologized.
In your control

You now are faced with fear in her presence.
She controls her verbal assaults.
You control your responses and fear of her actions.

You know what to expect.
Now you need to know what to do...then practice and prepare for it...then climb to the top of the mountain.

I challenge you to read the book called Boundaries.
I chalenge that you seek out additional material about how you can set boundaries, actively emotionally detach, and anything about protecting yourself against verbal abuse...no matter who commits it towards you.
Learn
Practice
Do

This my DB brother is the action that you will need to take to conquer the fear and climb to the top of the mountain.

Will you accept my challenge?

You are doing well, you are taking care of this kids...they are teaching you as mine teach me.
Action is key...solution oriented is DB...goals are how we track our progress and apply DB principles.

I believe you can do it.
I am actively engaged in the very actions the I challenge you with.
I would enjoy the opportunity to share and help each other out in this quest.

What say you my friend?

Hey Surfer, just checking in. Sorry it's been so long.

You sound like you are doing great for your kids. I can see you have made sure they are your focus through all of this. WW can spew as much as she likes but it seems like water of a ducks back for you now so well done.

Wishing you lots of love and happiness in 2017 Surfer. You deserve it as reward for the patience you have shown! X

SH

Thanks as always. Is the book 'boundaries' by? I will read this yes.

Thanks.

Surfer.

Thanks Coly

Sadly it fills me with fear still all this confrontation but I am working on that. Sometimes it is indeed water off a ducks back but I just need to control interactions a little more. I e always been the nice guy passive that tries to avoid flare ups. But this means I have to set boundaries and define the way we interact. W rages against this but I will keep trying.

Surfer.

Originally Posted By: Surfer

SH

Thanks as always. Is the book 'boundaries' by? I will read this yes.

Thanks.

Surfer.

Google Boundaries book....
You will notice a pencil...
There is a version for kids and M.

Thanks sh for the suggestion. Enforcing boundaries appears to be the root of the problem for most people here (which they can control). I see this in me big time.

Surfer - how has meditation been going for you? The app you mentioned is nice but I can't stand that he doesn't talk American very good.

Is this the Turtle book on boundaries V mentioned?

You can download as PDF the documents for couples and individuals. I have them both downloaded now. Google "Al Turtle Boundaries".

Now I need to work on applying them.

Hang in there mate, you're an inspiration to those of us just starting to muddle through

SH,

Thanks. Bought a kindle version. Very reasonable. REad the first chapter.

Will plough through the rest from tomorrow - with a mild hangover no doubt (ouch)!

Surfer.

Jug,

Quote:

Surfer - how has meditation been going for you? The app you mentioned is nice but I can't stand that he doesn't talk American very

good.

I "needed" this a LOT when I was in my dark days - I was new to my job running a team of 16 with expectations of Equity Partnership in one of the largest consultancies in the world, oh and it just so happened my W had turned into the worst of the worst of her incarnations. My life was fear. BIG time. I meditated on the tube, walking, at my desk, in quiet rooms, I even found a break on in the loo if I was struggling. I would then meditate going home on the tube and then if my W was spewing I would take myself somewhere quiet and do this again. Slowly I started to focus on my emotional well being and I could control my anxiety. I used this constantly for 6 months I would say. I was a key tool for me regaining control from the panic. This panic was brought about as a result of my W using pretty much every tool in the verbal abusers arsenal - constantly, whilst trying to make my career work. So in a nutshell it was good.

No I imagine you could do with a dark brown louisiana voice ha ha. If you are talking about headspace the guy doesn't actually change his 'patter' much. He kind of says the same thing and the pattern of his speech is annoying at times. In terms of Calm I would sometimes just put on the background waves or log fire sounds and do my own thing rather than listening to the over familiar 'speech pattern' as such.

Surfer

Thanks Woke_Up. I will read this later today. I have found it. The book has a pencil on the cover. I have downloaded this also.

Surfer.

Surfers Journal....

Just realised we have moved on from Hurricane "Christmas Decorations" to Hurricane "Drop Off Time". I am not sure this is progress however

So I ready my W's texts from yesterday - now there is no contact the fear has gone. She accused me of changing the agreed drop off time on our joint online kids calendar. That is gaslighting/a lie. She said I agreed 3pm. Another lie and gaslighting. Finally, she said my keeping the kids was deliberate and unnecessary (presumably keeping the kids until the time we agreed??). I decided to check my hand written notes from our call. I did not agree to 3pm. It was actually 4pm on my note and I asked her to check the online diary and update it if there were any problems with how I had entered all the dates. So I decided I wanted to set the record straight (no point with the verbal abuser by the way - it just gets ignored, sidelined etc). However, I wanted to make a clear point that disrespectful behaviour will not bring the desired results. I texted her with:

"I checked, it was 4pm (see notes photo), but I put in 4.30pm. It wasn't changed. It's your job to check the calendar too. I might have been open to this if you had been nicer."

I didn't bother berating her for laying into my 71 year old Dad or getting the kids upset. There seemed to be little point. I have had no response and I don't need one as my point was to define the "bad behaviour = unfavourable outcome" boundary. I think I did this.

D9 Facetimed me earlier she was happy. We chatted for quite a while.

I trust there are no hurricanes planned for the next day or so. Then again, no point dressing for summer, just yet!!

Surfer.

Peace in the Surfer household. Kids are with WW and wee seem to be communicating properly about kids pantomime tickets - albeit by text.

Went to a friends new year party yesterday. Met a lady who is interested in me and would like to meet up. it feels nice to be liked, wanted and even attractive to someone. I might catch up with her, who knows.......:)

Surfer.

It's funny you mention meeting a lady, my silly mind has been entertaining the same thoughts. I would never do it unless single/divorced for at least a year. But the fact that I was able to look in the mirror recently and go, "Pssshhh, I go this, I'm not going to spend my life alone!" is remarkable.

Boundaries are probably ne of the most trickiest things to frame in one's mind. I've been reading as well and have found I can place a boundary without putting up a fence.

Yes. Finding another person will happen if you are left to your own devices I think. But I certainly don't want another R at the moment as such. I just think I am starting to think about it. I guess that's a positive thing but it all brings complications ultimately, how would it work out with the kids etc. The thing hat would worry me is that you would be tempted to allow yourself to become infatuated quickly. A bit like the WS and this can't be good - I think you would need something slow and steady really. Particularly as you don't want the kids thinking you found someone else's and 'left' them without the love and attention they needed. IDK. Tricky.

Boundaries are very tricky. It's how you provide a consequence that is appropriate I am struggling with. More reading required.

Surfer.

Interestingly I set some boundaries yesterday. Spoke to W about a couple of kids things then mentioned she had (in the last 2 days) put an event in the diary for the kids on my weekend. I told her regardless that it was her brothers kids party, they may not go and it's down to her to advise such parties so they can re-arrange party dates to work around my weekend. Alternatively, if convenient I will take them - but her assumption that they will go, without consultation (she re-wrote history telling me I knew, which can't have been the case as she has only just found out) is not acceptable and she needs to respect this. There are no other such diary dates and I made it clear that this was not to happen again. I also clarified that it is just as much her responsibility to keep this diary up to date as mine.

Conversation was factual but fair but W really retied to dominate it, talk over me a lot (succeeded a lot actually), but I intervened with 'stop - I have not finished', 'please extend the same courtesy' etc comments. After some haggling we both kind of accepted each others positions but she was escalating no doubt. She then shifted gear and diverted on to a previous spew - about the time the kids were due back the other day - see Hurricane "Drop Off Time". I said, I would not discuss that any more, my point is clear. She spewed and hung up.

She then texted to say "I am never allowed to talk about what hurts or bothers her and it sends up with her being upset" (during our conversation she alluded to being really stressed - I asked why but she would not say; so this again is nonsense). I know now that she is not upset, she is angry (our MC said this to her - she denied it to her many times).

I clarified, "I am not here for your abusive anger anymore. You sacked me as your spouse. As for feelings, try 'talking'; shouting or raging is just abuse - see my point above. Respect gets respect. If you find it hard, try starting with the works "I feel", rather than "You always, You never". Also don't blame me for past events. I don't put up with that anymore. Next time I get any more of this abuse the phone goes down or the door shuts. And not more doing this in front of the kids; you are abusing them with this. All of this behaviour stops.

She then tried projecting this onto me again and I said, "that's just projection. It's abuse. Your attempts to abuse and manipulate need to find a new target. I am not interested in this. Do not text or call me any further about this nonsense."

Hopefully the boundary is clear. Abuse of any form is not tolerated. I will put down the phone or close the door on new if you do it again. I now need to follow this through.

I hope this seems like a reasonable way to handle this. I didn't feel sucked into it, I was tempted to give her a piece of my mind - i.e spew back at one point but, no.

I am starting to like drawing boundaries. Having finished the Verbally Abusive Relationship book I am now reading the boundaries references and book I have kindly been pointed towards. This will be tonight's project.

Got the kids today. Should be with W but she had to go back to work. Fact is this has left me under some pressure with my work. She often does this - makes the holiday work for her so she get me to cover time when she is at work and they are off. I am going to put an end to this soon as it impacts upon my workload - and it feels manipulative. I think it would be best just to say, I will take the first half of any holidays. The only times that are different are where there are birthdays or Christmas involved.

IDK. Work in progress this bit....

I would appreciate any comments.

Surfer.

I made a nice reply and lost it. Grrrr.

Short version. I know you feel as if you are being abused and you are trying to stop the cycle. But in my honest opinion, I feel as if the boundary punishes the kids, it's not worth it. I do absolutely 100% agree that she should have let you known in advance. But you can't tell her people need to plan their kids parties around your parenting time. She simply needs to let you know in advanced and if you don't have plans with the kids, then sure, they can go.

I have been at this so long I have learned the difference between being a doormat and doing what's best for my daughter. it did take some time for that line become unfuzzy. The only time I eat sh!t is for my daughter. If "teaching a lesson" to my ex punishes my child, I don't do it. it has worked well for me and has been met nicely, and we came to an agreement on these things.

have you tried nicely to validate, understand that the kids should attend the party, as it is their cousins, but you do need to know xx in advance if it is on your parenting time? And when I told my ex I would extend the same courtesy to him, he couldn't argue.

I've learned boundaires were better set when I was kind but firm and kept the focus on our daughter. If it has anything to do with what I want, he gave a lot of pushback. If it has only to do with our daughter in the conversation, he was more agreeable.

I apologize for the harsh truth, but you can't include yourself at all in those conversations. She doesn't give a crap what works for you or about respecting you. So she may be compliant with your boundaries if you don't make them about you.

My 2 cents.

Thanks Ginger.

I think you are absolutely right. Kids come first. I did have plans to take them to my parents which I did make clear. However, I have relented and she can pick them up and go. I have made a fairly clear point I think - you don't tell me last minute and I will have the same respect for you.

I am starting to understand boundaries more and get across that Surfer the Whipping Boy left a long time ago. This Surfer is the one who will tell you to stop talking nonsense if you are and will put the phone down and not call you back. Surfer is not chasing and is not your spouse - you sacked him at that so don't expect me to listen to nonsense, manipulation, etc. Not hear for that, like I say that chap left.

As I am starting to enforce boundaries I am feeling much more detach, more confident. More gym, more focus, attention from other ladies. It all helps. I feel I only have things to gain now.

I hope my W now realises that we both need to put things in the diary as soon as we know and if it's too tight to change plans, then it doesn't happen. There will come a time again where she does not plan and I will have to say no. She is sooooo disorganised or perhaps just likes keeping me in the dark. That really pi55es me off as I don't expect a lack of planning on her part to constitute an emergence on mine.

I could say, I want min 2 weeks notice of anything or assume its an automatic no. I have to plan at least 2 weeks head so she needs to also IMHO - not sure how that works. I obviously wouldn't say it like that.

Surfer.

BTW - sorry you lost your post. I have done that sooooo many times!

Originally Posted By: Surfer

I could say, I want min 2 weeks notice of anything or assume its an automatic no. I have to plan at least 2 weeks head so she needs to also IMHO - not sure how that works. I obviously wouldn't say it like that.

Surfer.

I have also learned rigidity is met with rigidity. I would suggest whatever you say with "absolutes" you need to be ready to get it right back atcha. You need to do this as if you are living the rest of your life not married, but co-parenting. Say something really great comes up for the kids or even yourself the week before, but YOU implemented the two week rule..... are you fully ready to abide by that? Perhaps youc an place a little flexibility in the above. calling something an "absolute" will also be an absolute for you in return. And life logically doesn't work that way. My ex have a notice rule, but will ask kindly if it could be bent if something comes up in short notice. If it can be, it will be, if can't be, we just deal. We can basically tell if eachother was being inconsiderate or if something really did come up last minute.

All my suggestions are based upon trial an error and what worked and what didn't.

Thanks .makes perfect sense.

S

Ginger has the wise. My coach said boundaries are for you but be careful not to fence yourself and the other person in. This is a constant practice and I cannot imagine how hard it must be for you, Surfer. Your XW tries to test your boundaries like a petulant child so the tricky part is on your side.

You're sounding a lot more confident and grounded!

Journaling...

W and I are getting along better. Showing more respect for time boundaries etc. Even helping each other a little with small things - a grocery pick up, changing plans to make things work as much as possible re. having kids etc.

I definitely do not want my W back. I do love her though, as a friend, but not my best friend, but more than a neighbour yet lots less than the best friend she was. Kids are fine, as we are fine. Work is really busy and I am cracking away on that front.

I met someone recently and have been out for drinks/a meal. Really lovely, but it is very early days and I need to be careful. I think there is a tendency, when you have suffered from years of withholding, abuse, raging etc to want to run to someone that shows you genuine care, kindness and love. Limerance becomes a genuine 'risk'. I am trying to stay as level headed as possible with this whole thing. I have come to terms with the fact that my WW disrespected me for years, resented me too and has little sense of loss for the M following an A. I do not hold bitterness towards her as I am partly to blame - for any disconnection (but I was apologetic, keen to work at anything etc), but I also know that I may not have been able to prevent this. I also feel that there is something deeper seated in my W. I was recently in touch with the author of a prominent abuse book. She clarified that regular 'raging' can be a sign of mental illness or a personality disorder. My W raged from early days in our R (18 years ago) albeit twice a year to nightly prior to her leaving. At that point she had escalated to physical violence (just once) a verbal abusers always escalate towards physical violence. If this expert author is correct, there is nothing I could have done to prevent my W's 'issues'. Also there is nothing I can do to help her. She needs professional help, which she rejected (our MC alluded to her anger and said she needed help with this - W denied this anger: denied the problem).

Whilst I have been feeling guilty for thinking about moving on with a R elsewhere, as I am technically married albeit separated and in the early stages of divorce, I believe that my W has clearly stated and shown repeatedly over the last 3 years, and emphatically, that she does not want me or the M. She has done this with a total of 7 years of withholding, years more of abuse and raging, disrespect, resentment and A and physical violence. So, forget it. I can sit waiting for her to come home to our old life (she won't change I understand from the expert author - women just don't when they are abusive apparently, or she has never seen it) or I can create a new life. One that is built around me, my children and another partner in the future. One that is full of love and kindness and fun.

For now I will observe what happens with W, but I am not going to hang on to any strings anymore. I just don't. They are all dropped. No rollercoaster either. Yes I am sad at times, sometimes lonely, but hey, that's definitely not going to be forever. I won't be waiting in the wings. I will be moving forward now.

A final point. To push forward with the D or not? I am tempted, but I do feel this is her journey still.

Surfer.

Wow, so much in that last post Surfer! Can't post in detail right now but will in the morning. You've got some interesting and it sounds like good things going on

Hi Surfer, this is JMHO of course - but I would have concerns about bringing an OP into the mix right now. You are not D'd and have chosen not to file for D - so why date?

You don't sound to be at a point where you are healthy, healed and ready to be a suitable new partner for someone. I would encourage you to google relationships and entanglements and have a think about where you are at and what you are doing?

Also, V posted a helpful list of Q's on 'am I ready for dating?' It may be worth reading these. Sorry if I'm being a bit of a Debbie Downer, but I really wouldn't date a guy who is at the stage you are at....

Hope this helps a little anyway - though I appreciate it may not be what you hoped to read, it is well meant

I echo sotto...
You are wildly all over the place and would benefit much by sitting still for a spell.
You have shared some hyper diagnosing of your wife and perhaps this has you swinging much...
I have read and looked into the author and material that you have shared much on and while I find much valid info, the material is from one source and has much definitivness to it. Be cautious in taking one point of view and applying it so specifically as you have...there is always more to it when psychology is involved...seek more information to understand verbal and emotional abuse...I do not beleive that "emotional abuse" or "verbal abuser" is a label...it is an action...much caution we should use when applying it. Emotional behaviors are learned from childhood, and may not be so evil as we like to apply the labels to others...you have shared your understanding of this and understand most of us have committed this action... intent is a key as you share. You have excused your actions because you know your intent. You have condemned your W and labeled her because you have perceived her intent...but can you say that you truely know her intent?

Your search to place a reason on your W's behavior appears to have given you a sense of closure and desire to move on quite quickly...I have shared a theme with you that your sharing with us is still missing...a DB principle.
DB principle...focus on yourself and your side of the street...
In my reading about How A man thinketh, it is discussed how a man can not believe in two separate things...I have seen much value in this information to help maintain my swing...

Quote:

Buddha definitely taught that right belief is the first and most essential step in the Way of Truth, as without right belief there cannot be right conduct, and he who has not learned how to rightly govern and conduct himself, has not yet comprehended the simplest rudiments of Truth.

Belief as laid down by the Great Teachers, is not belief in any particular school, philosophy, or religion, but consists of an altitude of mind determining the whole course of one's life. Belief and conduct are, therefore inseparable, for the one determines the other.

Belief is the basis of all action, and, this being so, the belief which dominates the hearts or mind is shown in the life. Every man acts, thinks, lives in exact accordance with the belief which is rooted in his innermost being, and such is the mathematical nature of the laws which govern mind that it is absolutely impossible for anyone to believe in two opposing conditions at the same time. For instance, it is impossible to believe in justice and injustice, hatred and love, peace and strife, self and truth. Every man believes in one or the other of these opposites, never in both, and the daily conduct of every man indicates the nature of his belief. The man who believes in justice, who regards it as an eternal and indestructible Principle, never boils over with righteous indignation, does not grow cynical and pessimistic over the inequalities of life, and remains calm and untroubled through all trials and difficulties. It is impossible for him to act otherwise, for he believes that justice reigns, and that, therefore, all that is called injustice is fleeting and illusory.

The man who is continually getting enraged over the injustice of his fellow men, who talks about himself being badly treated, or who mourns over the lack of justice in the world around him, shows by his conduct, his attitude of mind, that he believes in injustice. However he may protest to the contrary, in his inmost heart he believes that confusion and chaos are dominant in the universe, the result being that he dwells in misery and unrest, and his conduct is faulty.

Again, he who believes in love, in its stability and power, practices it under all circumstances, never deviates from it, and bestows it alike upon enemies as upon friends. He who slanders and condemns, who speaks disparagingly of others, or regards them with contempt, believes not in love, but hatred; all his actions prove it, even though with tongue or pen he may eulogize love.

Stay focused on you.
Avoid labeling and condemning her actions as her label so that you can feel detached...remember healthy detachment is a choice, not a feeling.
Learn how to manage her behaviors that affect you...not to judge her intentions...
Remember time is your gift...
Moving on now appears to be rushing forward and a pain killer for the emotional pain you have been inflicted...pain killers feel good...there are many side effects and can be the source of long term pain.

Just my 2c, and there are many authors and studies that you can look to that will share the healthy emotional benefits to what sotto has encouraged you on.

Stay the course my friend.

Sotto,

Thanks. I get this. But I do need to move forward with my life at some point. I do not want my W back. She will not change. I have not filed for D correct. I am still not fully stable at times, but I am not far off. I also am not having a physical relationship with anyone. GAL it is, affair it's not. At some point if this person or a.n.other becomes an OP then surely that is not wrong? IDK. When is it right? At some point surely we just need to accept things and move forward?

I will google and read that thanks for the advice. I totally appreciate you're thoughts.

SH, justice and love. I really agree with a lot of what you have written. I have found some closure in understanding my W's behaviour. Yes, it is a choice. And no I can't understand her intent for her actions would have been correct, because they will have been backed up by correct motivation (in her mind). I do not seek to label her or condemn her. I have sad memories of the choices she has made but I do not want to do anything but still feel love for her as the M of my children.

If moving on is rushing I have to look at the alternative and wonder what is the point in standing still? I have stood still for 7 years. I understand a lot, but at times do we not seem to be turning into pseudo pschotherapists who are over analysing so much. Perhaps just to take a step back and enjoy life is what we should be doing. IDK, I just think 7 years of eggshells, frustration, with the odd rage from the beginning up to constant raging and physical violence, it just seems to be an odd thing to hang on for doesn't it? The withholding was constant and spiteful actions were habitual. I mean, if I was your D, asking you if I should hang on for a man that has acted like my W (that includes the disrespect, affair etc), would you really say hang in there? I am not sure you would. I am certain that I wouldn't be 100% confident that was the right course of action.

Surfer.

LT

I do have some good things going on but I do also need to think about the opposite view and that is reflected by Sotto and SH. I need to be careful at this point. I need to take care to make sure I don't end up with an OP because it feels nice and so I can move forward, just to stumble further down the road.

Ultimately however, I do deserve to be happy, provided that is not at the expense of others.

All choices, it's good to have choices.

Surfer.

Hey Surfer,

Have you ever seen the movie 28 days with Sandra Bullock? It's about a woman recovering from alcoholism, it's really good and I recommend it. Anyway, there's a point where a character asks when is it safe to start daxting again. The teacher tells the man to get a plant and take care of it for 6 months, if that is successful then get a pet and care for it as well for 6 months, finally if both plant and animal are alive and thriving after 12 months then it's okay to start dating.

We are recovering from a sort of addiction, our spouses and our need to "fix" them. I have been guilty of dissecting my WH's behavior and trying to find the approach for him ti have the AHA! moment. This is a very codependent behavior I have and I am trying to develop better coping skills. I have been VERY tempted to go dating just to feel wanted again, to feel desirable. But the fact is I am married (albeit to a very detached husband) and it is wrong to go on a date with another man. If you are done with your wife, if you will choose to move on by seeing other women, then divorce. Otherwise return to making yourself a super hawt guy that everyone will admire and put the relationship making on hold.

Went round to a friends last night. She was a bit down so I offered to cook her and her flat mate dinner. Had a few drinks and laughs and stayed over. My friend is talking abo a little holiday in March. Sounds good.

Gym and work today. I also need to dismantle Christmas....

Need to get off my backside!

Surfer.

Sotto,

Read about relationships and entanglements. My marriage was an entanglement. I also see that it could be possible to walk into a new entanglement rather than a R. I will read around this more. Thank you.

Surfer.

Sotto,

I can't seem to find V's Q & A sheet. Any ideas on how best to find it. 3 month search limit is testing me....:)

Thanks.

Surfer.

Sara,

I will watch the film. I think I have seen it actually. I like the analogy though - I can make a plant and a pet last for 12 months easily. I have started a business from scratch and it's really firing after 6 months - that is kind of plant and my pet. 12 months will see it thrive.

Yes I get the 'aha' moment. I guess I just need to be careful that this is just GAL rather than anything more serious until it is right for serious. Which makes me think about the D process again........mmmmmmm.

I think I am becoming more committed to a D in all honesty. I just don't see me wanting her back.

Surfer.

Hi Surfer, V posted to Don back in Novemer - here's a link to her post:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2710427&page=2

She then went on to assess herself against those questions in her own thread in surviving the big D a couple of days later...

I thought it was a helpful list :-)

Sotto,

Thank you.

Did you mean this?

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2710427&page=4

Is it item 3 that troubles you? Because I am not D yet? If not what else do you see me struggling with? Perhaps I am giving off the wrong impression IDK.

Surfer.

So not much happening. Work is good, life is good, kids are good. WW is being nice. We are co-parenting well. No blow ups. Life is good. Do I want her back. No.

Generally quite happy and content.

Surfer.

Surfer, I'm extremely happy to hear you're feeling good right now. It's also great to hear that a stable co-parenting relationship is possible, even after all of this mess they've put us through.

I would ask a question though. Do you think your current level of happiness is sustainable or do you think you're at the top of one of the many hills of the roller coaster you are riding? It can be easy in our situations to get caught up in the moment while losing sight of the long journey we are all on. Just want to make sure you have self-awareness that yours may not fully be over. Not trying to be a downer, just trying to help keep you level and working on detaching.

Regardless, I do hope for the best for you brother. If it is detachment you have found via your understanding of Ws behavior then that's spectacular! You deserve a respite from her constant bombardment. Keep doing what you're doing my friend!

LT

It is sustainable I am 100% sure. But I need to fill the loneliness by being with the kids, friends, family and at some point someone special for me.

Peace came with understanding my WWs. Ehavious as abuse, stopping
accepting this and the acceptance that she is unlikely to change. I also understand and accept that her behaviour is hers, caused by her actions
And FOO stuff. II have let her go and I am ready to let someone else into my life. I have accepted myself again. This is key. I still have things I need to work on personally but I now know what I suspected. I am a lovable and kind man and a great father. I am happy with my future and i warmly welcome it.

In summary it was just letting her go and accepting me that did it. Understanding her and her issues (massive thanks to V for this) and moving forward without fear of losing her. Accepting that she went/has gone and knowing there is a happier life without the drama.

Don't misunderstand. I still love my wife for who she is and always will. She is just not the person I loved anymore. That's her choice. Not mine.

Keep working at it mate. There are different problems for us all in this and therefore we will all have different solutions. This is me mine however.

I am now working with on island 2. She left me on island 1. I recognise this and Pig Pen was key in me understanding that I have been expecting her to come back to island 1. However she left that for a reason. So I am not hanging around with 'Wilson' I am moving islands. I am going to build my own happiness.

Surfer.

You sound like you're in a good place. On more concrete terms, what's the next step?

Sara

If I am honest. I think to move on. Really move on.

If she ever comes back to me I will listen but I really don't expect she will. It's years since her EA. There is little resentment and we get on but I have no desires for her and it's reciprocated. We have not been intimate for 7 years or even hugged or held hands for 3 to 4 years. It's time to move on. I'm just not hanging around anymore.

Problem is I think I am going to need to instigate the D so we can as she is just sitting right doing very little.

Surfer.

Surfer,
Again I commend your really long stance. I like a lot of your attitude and I agree you are in a good frame of mind.

I don't think D is an absolute necessity to build a new island. That being said follow your heart.I understand you wanting what can only be found in SN intimate R.

Best wishes

You sound like you are coming on leaps and bounds. Take time to think about if a D is what you really want, no one can ever say you haven't tried to make things work.

I'm glad to hear that you are co parenting well. I feel I'm doing an absolute solo mission!

Thanks Roist and Cherry.

Roist it has been at least 6-7 years I have been going through this. I feel the last 3 have been hell. But as of the last 6 months or so I have really felt myself changing. I have taken steps back but I really have zero attachment to my W now. I do care for her and love her as the mother of my children but not as a W. I sometimes wonder if my feelings could come back and of course this is possible. However this is very, very unlikely as even if I changed my mindset it would take my W to do the same and this may not happen at all (most likely will not).

Cherry, I think whether you feel you are moving on as a solo parent or co-parenting it's the fact you are moving on that is important. I expect at some point your WH will come to the table and be involved more. Although at this stage I would not dwell on this. I am so impressed with the strength you have shown for you children. Keep it up.

Surfer.

Crikey,

Just had a conversation with the STBXW - she called following a text to suggest send details of properties so we can start to budget as her and kids need something more permanent than this (renting) - is everything an opportunity for a rant? Crikey. Got the nice 'sweet' convo first then the bile spilled. LoL. Typical.

Validate, STFU Surfer. Exit gracefully, move on. Time for a nudge from the solicitor I think. I just don't want to have a messy D, but if she does, not much I can do other than follow L advice. Ah well. Onwards and upwards.....

Surfer.

Originally Posted By: Surfer

Validate, STFU Surfer. Exit gracefully, move on. Time for a nudge from the solicitor I think. I just don't want to have a messy D, but if she does, not much I can do other than follow L advice. Ah well. Onwards and upwards.....

Surfer,

With regard to not wanting a messy divorce; after my divorce, if you'd asked me, I would have said that the separation and divorce was relatively tame and sedate. However, when I took my sons to see their post-divorce counselor, I found out that my XW thought the separation and divorce was filled with strife and nastiness. I don't know how to account for the wide gulf in our perceptions, but that just illustrates that two people can have very different impressions of the same situation. C'est la vie.

Quote:

However, when I took my sons to see their post-divorce counselor, I found out that my XW thought the separation and divorce was filled with strife and nastiness. I don't know how to account for the wide gulf in our perceptions, but that just illustrates that two people can have very different impressions of the same situation.

Well, for one thing remember their mindset. What may very well tame and drama-free, is exactly the opposite in their mind. Heck, during our mediation, the ex was posting on social media that she needed everyone's prayers because she was getting taken to the cleaners and that I was being unfair.

Thanks Jeep & Doodler. All good insight. I will keep this in mind.

Regards,

Surfer.

In my experience, yes, everything is absolutely an opportunity for a rant. Every opportunity to spill some bile at us is grabbed with both hands. I feel at times like wh actually hates me, even though I do nothing to warrant this. But it's just their mindset, rather than look inwards (god forbid); they would sooner turn their attention over to us and blame us for everything wrong with the world.

It may be my thoughts as an independent woman, but I think it's totally wrong of your w to expect that she can still rely on your finances to fund her life for something SHE wanted. They can't expect to have the best of both worlds. Keep strong like you say, it might not necessarily be what you want but following the advise of your L would be the best. So long as the children won't suffer (I know you wouldn't see that happen); then she will have to figure out how else she can find her lifestyle, this is the decision that she has made, so she should figure out how she is going to navigate her way through this.

Surfer: I wanted to check in and see if you are still trying the Love Languages experiment? Sorry if I've fallen behind.

Thanks Cherry.

Bigybiz - LL's help. But in between the nice times are the nasty spews. I don't want the R with this abuse - my boundary is to not chose an abusive R. Therefore dropped the LL's.

Surfer.

I see them as separate entities.

She treats you badly, you have a boundary in place to protect you. That was your choice not to have R with her.

How you treat her and everyone else for that matter should be based on how you want to treat them and not about how they deserve to be treated. Make it about you with no motive to influence W.

Best wishes

Originally Posted By: roist

How you treat her and everyone else for that matter should be based on how you want to treat them and not about how they deserve to be treated. Make it about you with no motive to influence W.

Best wishes

I love this. It kind of answered why I am good to exH and his OWW and we get along for the most part. Because I treat them not as they deserve, but as I chose to treat other people.

You cleared something up for me that has been nagging at me, Roist. Sometimes I say in a little voice int he back of my head "they don't deserve to be treated so well by me" but it comes naturally to do so. because I treat others how I want to treat them.

Thank you, Roist and I apologize for the hijack.

Loos like you've placed healthy boundaries and are protecting your heart. How's it been going lately, tell me about your week. (sips chai with weird moisturizing mask on my face)

Hi Surfer

Just seeing how you are? I popped into a book shop by London Bridge today and saw 'The Chimp Paradox' in the psychology section. I remembered you mentioning it, so picked it up.

Hope you're well, chap.

Hi Surfer,

Are you still around? It has been a while since you have checked in and I'm hoping you are ok.

Cristy

Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004

Surfer, hope you are doing well out there brother!

Just checking on you my friend

V

Thanks for checking in. I am okay. Struggling at times but mostly good. Boundaries - keeping STBXW at a distance - seem to help but the bitter/sweet cycle crops up from time to time. It's a psychological problem my STBXW has and I just need to stay vigilan when we have contact. I am trying to focus on me and the kids as much as possible and move on now and enjoy life as much as I can. Yes I have down days but they are fairly rare.

Surfer.

Surfer! So happy to see you brother!

All you can do is focus on you and the kids. Sounds like there are still some struggles you're facing though. I hope you're having success in getting through them. This stuff can be very rough at times, regardless of where you are on your journey. Stay strong my friend and don't be a stranger!

Brother! How have you been? I've missed you! What kind of behaviors has your STBXW been displaying? Maybe we all can brain storm so you can get the results you want, like boundaries she respects.

Hey mate, good to hear from you. Hope work and the home life are going well. Keep us posted from time to time on how you're getting on and how your interactions with W are going.

Take care.

�Que pasa mi amigo? I see you have been away for a while, I'm hoping you are doing good and taking good care of yourself

Quick update. I hope you are all okay and thank you for your messages and for checking in.

D documents finalised practically (1 month to settlement). Can't say it doesn't hurt. Of course it does. However, D10 and S8 are thriving. I have been too but all this sort of thing inevitably causes some PTSD. I rarely feel it now - months and months since I last felt it. But you can't help thinking what is wrong with me, what I am, have been etc. But obviously, the answer lies in not being perfect as a person but accepting that you can't control the actions of others. It's sad, when all you wanted was what you thought you both wanted.

Having said that, going back could never be an option. It's not until you understand that you have been abused and how that you can make this leap of faith. Moving from where you were to where you need to be. The rest is really just wistful hindsight for what you 'thought' it was. But it never really was. It was just what you wanted - 'The Waltons life' (in your mind it was, in theirs it was not).

WW has not engaged at all in the process of the D (despite starting it). It's been a tricky road, however, mostly I have flown through it with a stiff sense of morality and a relaxed attitude. But today I am struggling a bit. Don't get me wrong, not a lot. Just a tad.

I am a very luck man. Someone that really loves me. Lovely children who have been so well supported through my learning and care (and to some degree that of my WW too - I can't deny that).

I think it might not have helped looking at social media profiles of all those that enabled the WW in her endeavours. They were such a tight controlling bunch, many of who were WW themselves but have reined it in since this. WW does not seem to spend so much time with them and may or may not have an OM involved. I expect not and certainly not the OM that was involved at the outset.

But hey. Jog (Surf) on etc.

Life is otherwise very good and these feelings are transient (Rumi - The Guest House, helps on that front), work progressing and so is life. Generally a very happy camper. Just today for some reason not so much - but I rarely feel down and I will be fine. Sleep and exercise will deal with that tomorrow and Surf will be up again!

Practically zero confrontations with STBXW and see her daily.

I am lucky, I have a lovely lady in my life. A god send and amazing. Understands and cares - I am very lucky.

I hope you are all well. I will check in properly soon. Just need to get some rest.

Surfer.