Hi everyone, am a total newbie but have been reading posts on here for a few weeks now and am reaching out because am at the end of my rope here. Married 13 years, when he was 23 and I 25. One DS, 3 years old. Based in the UK.
Husband moved out in July after a couple of months when I found out about affair 3 (first two were EAs). At the time I didn't know about DB-ing and did everything wrong - was hideously angry and did lots of shouting and screaming which H can't deal with - I just didn't realise how deeply conflict avoidant he was. AP no. 3 backs off because she didn't realise he was married. End August H says he wants out of marriage, but is highly emotional, so I tell him I can't accept this decision until he's calm and rational. I start learning about DB-ing and fully accept my part in the breakdown - apologise to him loads. He tells me he is staying with his friend.
Beginning September I find evidence of EA/PA - no. 4. H explains he only went to her because he needed the comfort. He tells me he tells her its over while he sorts us out. Because I feel he is fragile, I don't press him for evidence, but carry on surveillance when I can. In the meantime am being loving and patient, giving him space when he says he needs it to 'think'. Mid November I find out he's never stopped affair. 'Thinking' time was actually AP time. He then confesses love for AP. Says they want to be together, but would 'sacrifice' to keep family together. He goes to dump her, but after four hours at hers, comes back and dumps me. In shock, I let him go. The next day he calls me and tells me he thinks he's made a mistake. And does so for one solid week. A week after he first leaves, he makes an appt with a marriage counsellor and asks her all sorts of questions about how to end an affair, how to rebuild etc. Plans to break up with AP the next day. After putting me through total agony, at the end of the day he calls me from AP's place and tells me "I'm done with you." I ask him why he put me through the last week of telling me he thought he had made a mistake. He said it was only for our son, and if I would stay in London (am thinking of moving back to my country of origin Singapore) with our son after the divorce he "would never have bothered" with me.
That was 24 Nov 2016. Went into 180 unknowingly after that, but maintained open channels of comm around access to son. He's completely relaxed and chatty around me - you wouldn't know he had left me for another woman.
Figured out a week ago he lied about when affair started and decided to go NC for my own protection - I can't take the acting like everything is fine and chatting about what Christmas gifts to get our son. Using his mother as intermediary. Which both of us have stuck to religiously.
I have Michele's Divorce Remedy and am following the Last Resort Technique. Does it work? I can't find many stories that it does. Any advice? I am not coping. I have great friends and family support but EVERYONE is getting really fed up with me trying to save this. I even went to see a priest and he told me to give up and move on : (
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Hello 2016sux,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in. I went ahead and moved your post to Newcomers so that more people will see it and be able to offer support.
At this point you can't believe any of what he says and only half of what he does. Focus on being the best mom and person that only a fool would leave. The key is to do it for yourself, not him.
Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. We work with many, many international clients. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
2016 Sux,
I have to agree with your forum name. 2016 has definitely sucked for me.
Yes. The LRT DOES work. Deploy it NOW and stick to it. Detach, 180 and GAL. You can't "love" him out of this mess he has created. Now is the time to focus on you. If you want to save your M, you have to let him go. It sounds backwards but it does work. Dont put up with his BS.
He's got some serious issues if he has had 4 A's. That is a problem that HE needs to fix. You can't fix it for him.
Only you can decide if you've "had enough." If you want to try and save the M, this method works. But he's got to do his part. Its great that he's interested in MC but right now, believe NONE of what he says. Its his ACTIONS that matter. And even then, take those with a grain of salt until he has proven that he is a changed man.
The one piece of advice that I can give is DONT take him back too quickly. Make him work to regain his place in your MR.
2016sux.......sorry you are here. I have only recently posted on this board myself, but lurked for about a month before I did post. I have found the support here just in the past few days to be fantastic. I am in no position to give any advice, but I am definitely here to listen and give support when needed.
Lim...I love what you said about how "you can't love him out of this mess he created" THAT definitely hit home. For me what is so hard is that they don't seem to see the mess they have made. They have moved on with their lives like the past never existed. I find that so hard to deal with.
Thanks so much to everyone that posted back! You guys are amazing!
Cadet - thanks so much for the comprehensive post, you've given me a proper induction. I have the Divorce Remedy book and have been dipping in and out but find it painful to read it from the beginning because so much of it is based on the premise that your spouse is still living with you. It's a painful reminder of how much I've lost : (
skm0619 - thanks for the support. It's really good to know I'm not alone in this. Will try to figure out how to look up posts and will look at yours.
LiM - I smiled when I read your post. Bring on 2017! I cannot wait to see this year gone. I am totally intrigued by your assertion that LRT does work - I can see from your signature you've had a really rocky ride this last year. Did you go to LRT straight away or was it after 2nd BD? Sorry I am new to forums and have to figure out how to look up your posts. Btw, my WH is not interested in counselling anymore. At the moment he is completely sticking to being happy with his OW.
At the moment I am in Singapore with my family - got here yesterday. My WH has our son for X'mas - he extracted a promise from me months ago that if we split up he could have him for the holidays. Looking back now it makes me think he never intended to work on the marriage. I have gone dark. The only person I am communicating with is his mother - she is facilitating the daily FaceTime sessions with my son who is staying with her for X'mas.
WH is sending me pictures of our son everyday, which I would normally have read hope into but I've just spent the afternoon with my best friend who's whacked that idea right out of my head. She understands WH better than I do because they are both conflict avoidant and she is totally convinced WH has zero intention of ever returning and is only being nice to me because that is what he values - niceness.
I don't know how to respond to the pictures he's sending, so I've just gone for a simple 'Thanks'. The impression he has of me at the moment, which he's also painted to his OW seems to be that I am an evil horrible witch, even though I've been loving and giving for the last few months. I don't want to give him any ammunition. Being polite is important to WH.
I am going to definitely stick to LRT and also will be focussed 100% on GAL. I don't have a choice really. For anybody new who's reading this, forget with the reasoning and trying to make them stay. It really doesn't work : (
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Totally. This is such valuable advice. I've got my DR book by my bedside and I've realised I've forgotten to delete the browser history off my laptop which is at home while I'm out of the country, so I've asked a friend to pop in and take it back to hers so the WH can't get his hands on it.
LiM - I'm sitting here reading going through your posts - what a ride! I can totally relate to the multiple BDs - in my case I think this year alone there were 4 - first in May when I discovered what I thought was just an EA with OW3, then evidence of PA with OW3 came in July, then new OW4 turns up beginning Sep, then evidence he never stopped with OW4 in November despite promising to. I have always said it and I maintain it still - the lying is worse than the affairs. It's traumatic. In a way I can forgiven the affairs easier than I can forgive the lying.
I've also experienced becoming stronger in my faith through this which was unexpected - though raised Catholic I have always been agnostic. But WH is a diehard atheist. He thinks religion is for weakminded silly people. So I don't have that to bring him back to his senses. His overriding rule is what feels good is right : (
I am feeling v low because I can't find a single person I know who says I shouldn't give up hope. Everyone I know is saying it's done, totally dead in the water, can't you see he left you ages ago etc... I'm having to keep my DB-ing efforts secret because everyone is so fed up with me. In my desperation I even went to see a priest and even he told me to give up!
I know I have to detach and GAL. Which is what I'm working on. And I know I should be doing it only for myself because there are no guarantees he will ever return.
If you've a story about how you've come back from the absolute brink, I would love to hear it. Actually, I think I'm way over the cliff's edge already, just free falling now : (
Apart from letting him go, is there anything I can do to make things better between us? At the moment he's sending me pics of our son but no messages and I'm just sending 'Thanks' back every other day or so.
I can kind of see both points - I ran myself into the ground with XW who had multiple affairs, stole money, etc, and I tried so "nobly and husbandly" to fight for her - while everyone told me I was crazy and to give up. But she was truly broken, and there was not a single thing in the world I could've done to bring her back, and it ended up costing me an additional 18 mo of my life just trying to heal from how her brokenness broke ME.
I would say the BEST thing you can do is let him go. For you and for him. The first time I let XW go in the midst of her cheating and lying and stealing, she became so jealous and came back so "DBing worked". The second time I let her go, I finally began to heal, so "DBing worked".
Either way, let go. Start watching a movie, and count off two hours of not talking to him or anyone about it. Then call a friend and vent. Then try to go 8 hours at work without contacting or responding. Then try a day at work, plus an hour in the gym. Then a day at work, a happy hour with friends, and an hour in the gym. I found breaking it up into bite-size chunks and slowly adding made it much easier.
I don't know what works for you, but find your formula!
2016,
I went LRT before BD #1. I knew something was terribly wrong in my M and the LRT immediately spoke to me. I had been reading the book for a couple of days when I got to that section and I KNEW it was for me. I deployed it immediately and basically told my W I was. I told her "I know you are at a place in your life when you have to make decisions for what is best for and I'm ok with that." She told me "Ya, but you're going to sit around and just be angry and depressed." I told her "I have a choice to make. I can choose to do that or I can choose to not be angry and depressed and instead work on myself. I choose to do that." The look on her face was priceless. She was dumbfounded. Unfortunately, it was only a couple of hours later that I discovered the A from my spying. Has I not found the book and this process, I would have completely lost it. Instead, I was able to remain focused. I had a plan and I was going to stick to it. When it came to BD #2, I filed for D. As it turns out, that is was changed everything around.
I will say that the best thing you can do to save your M, if thats what you want, is to LET HIM GO. Move on and let him see that you are moving on and becoming better without him. If he wants to be a part of your life, he's going to have to up his game and be a better person himself. The ball is now in HIS court.
Keep your responses to him brief. What you are doing when he messages you is exactly what you should be doing. Keep him guessing. Dont let him see that you are hurting.
When I finish this post, I'm going to head over to my thread and post an update because I'm not just right at 1 year since BD #1.
Thanks Bippy78, great advice and sorely needed. Sorry for the late reply but I thought no one was responding to my posts and stopped checking for a few days.
Hi LiM thanks so much for the post. I've been reading your posts and you have been a total inspiration to me - will go and check on your latest one.
Thanks guys. You have no idea how much this support means to me. I feel you are my secret support network because everyone just rolls their eyes when I speak about hoping he will ever come back.
I don't understand - how do I let go if I'm trying to save my marriage? Arent the two mutually exclusive? I am not doing any chasing behaviours whatsoever, and have gone dark since November.
I am trying so very very very hard to let go. He sent me an email yesterday (New Year's Eve - thanks!) to say the marriage was 100% over and all he wanted to ever was discuss where I would live with our son. Devastated. I have been doing the 180 from September to November and moved to LRT when he left me for the OW in November.
When I got the email yesterday, I just sat in bed and cried for ages, fell asleep, and then woke up thinking "if this isn't working, change it."
Am SUPER confused. On the one hand it's called Last Resort Technique - if it hasn't worked then does it mean the last resort is done, it's totally over? I've also been doing the After LRT, where I basically withdraw and don't interact and make him see what he's missing.
On the other hand in DR book Michele says do what works - and the going dark (After LRT) has not worked, he doesn't miss me and seems to have become more firm in his decision to leave. Does this mean I backtrack to the 180? Any advice would be so appreciated!
Sorry for the fragmented posting, but things keep popping into my head and I realised I wasn't clear in describing what I was thinking, about backtracking to the 180.
When I was doing the 180 from Sep to Nov, I didn't know about OW. Rather, I did know there had been an OW but he told me they decided to take a break until we sorted our marriage out. Which was obviously a big fat lie.
In these months (Sep-Nov) he was coming over a few times a week and we were spending time as a family with our son. I mucked up a few times and talked about R stuff, but on the whole it was nice. When I found out OW was still on the scene, I said he had to choose - he chose her. Since his choice, I've gone dark.
It's been 6 weeks of going dark and I've got his email yesterday which says he's confident divorce is the right thing for us and he's definitely not going to go back on this decision (should I give up?). Which makes me feel going dark hasn't worked.
So now I am wondering if I were to back track to the 180, which would be to do this:
- no R talk
- no begging/chasing behaviours
- agree to respectfully accept his decision to D (he complained I was v disrespectful)
- be pleasant, lighthearted around him (have been avoiding all contact with him)
- do not avoid him any more. For eg., on the nights he's been picking our son up I've been careful to stay away until bedtime is over, and as soon as I get home he rushes out the door. I am thinking I should do what I was doing in the 180 phase which was to be home prepping dinner (for both of them), being relaxed and happy, but no intiating any conversation - speak when spoken to kind of thing.
- make eye contact with him - I haven't been able to look at him in the face.
- respond to his texts. Even after he left me for OW he was sending me texts in a very conversational way, like 'Have a good trip', and making jokes about his car etc.
- on the whole, just be more present instead of avoiding him completely and withdrawing no contact, and making all contact light and pleasant and innocuous.
I must admit part of the reason I want to do this is because I now feel the going dark has just handed him over on a plate to the OW. He has told me repeatedly that he craves comfort and that is what she gives him. I think by going dark I've just made him rely on her even more. And I must admit it gives me a sneaky pleasure to know that she will be mad as hell if she found out he was texting me in a friendly way.
Any advice would be so appreciated!!! Just tell me as it is - I need to hear it.
Hello,I'm sorry your suffering this,but your in a good place here and there is lots of very wise people who will help you,most of us are going thru or have been thru simler situs,I'm not to good at advice,but it looks to me you need to just let go of the rope,the way he is ATM he won't listen,you can't reason with them,he is probly infatuated with the ow,I'm in the same boat as you,the more you run after him the more he will run away,some times you have to do the opposite of what you want to do,so I agree what the others have said let go,and look after you and your child,don't worry about him let him get on with it,you can't stop him he is only interested in him and his needs,but by letting go he will probly see what he has given up and miss it,then start thinking a bit different,I know its hard but you have to keep your chin up ,this is life these things happen,each day u will get stronger slowly but surely,and the peeps on here will look after you,your in good hands,
Hello maly
Thanks for the response and good advice. I was beginning to lose hope a bit.
I acted before I read your post and am not sure how it's panned out. I couldn't sleep very well the night before, kept waking up with panic attacks - that's my sleep now. Panic attack, heart pounding and look over to my sleeping son and it gets worse. So it popped into my head at around 3am to speak to WH and ask him if he would consider spending time with me. Not to come back to the marriage but just spend time with me, to get to know me again. I know - eek!
I decided to do it because I realised the LRT was too much like the version of me he fell out of love with - distant, remote, uninterested. So I've gone back to the 180 and am trying to be loving, gentle and kind. When I spoke to him this morning he was v standoffish and really annoyed, no eye contact, a lot of sighing, said a few times he didn't want to be in the marriage with me anymore. Which hurt but I figured, what did I have to lose? He was getting really annoyed with me so I left to go out while he had our son. I came back at dinner time and he was still standoffish, but said before he left that he would think about what I said.
I feel in my heart that LRT wasn't working, maybe because of who WH is and what our particular issues were, i.e. I wasn't loving. Over the Christmas period when I was properly dark for about 3 weeks if anything his resolve to leave hardened. Because he was able to build on his relationship with OW and she was giving him all he needed emotionally and I was off away in the dark not putting up a fight, being in his head, showing him I was different.
I read somewhere on this forum someone said that LRT was convenient for him because when his wife employed it, it meant his life got easier with no hassle from her and he was getting all his needs met by his OW. That has really resonated with me and I think this is what's happening here. When I was doing the 180 (didn't know OW was in the picture), WH said to me later he was swinging between OW and me and he was slowly coming around to us, but then I found out about OW and issued ultimatum. He chose her. I wonder now if I hadn't if he would have swung more my way.
Go and have a look at some of sandi2 posts and sm34 they have said some very good things that should help you with your sitch
OK thanks. I thought sandi2 was about WAWs specifically, but will look it up to see if I can glean anything.
Does anyone get exhausted with this? Today I am totally totally exhausted. I feel I could lie down and sleep for a million years. I can't concentrate at work at all.
WH told me yesterday in no uncertain terms he intends to block me from returning to my home country with our son. Despite having said before he wouldn't. Feel totally alone and terrified and in despair. The only thing that was keeping me going was the idea that I would be able to go home and be surrounded by family and my oldest friends and start to heal and rebuild. I feel betrayed again, not just by him but by his parents too, who agreed they understood why I needed to go home. My mother in law said she witnessed my struggle to adapt here for the last 15 years and saw how hard it was for me. And yet she's helped WH get legal advice about keeping me here. Destroyed all over again. When does it get better?
Does anyone get exhausted with this? Today I am totally totally exhausted. I feel I could lie down and sleep for a million years. I can't concentrate at work at all.
You ever see the commercial
Last night I slept in a Holiday Inn Express.
There is importance in getting a good night sleep.
Most important basic things to do.
Breathe, drink fluids, eat, and sleep!
These are basics!
Work on above list before you try to start doing anything else.
You know put your own oxygen mask on before you try to start saving others!
Thanks Cadet. I see the wisdom of what you're saying but I feel panic stricken all the time. I can totally understand when they say that the LBS goes through a fog, because that's what I'm feeling at the moment.
I can totally understand when they say that the LBS goes through a fog, because that's what I'm feeling at the moment.
Well the advantage that you have is hopefully you won't deny that it is happening, but instead face it and try to FIX yourself.
We have all been there.
2016
Please. Talk to a good immigration and divorce lawyer. In 6 months when you start to realize that your WH who has had MULTIPLE affairs is not a prize, you will regret not having had one sooner. Don't make agreements or decisions as of yet and certainly do not make any with the goal of "winning" your husband back. Do what works best for you.
Your in laws will never be on your side. No matter how nice and friendly they seem. Don't trust them and certainly don't pay mind to their opinions on this matter. She's reminding you of your struggles adapting there? WTF? She's justifying and enabling some pretty disgusting behavior on her sons part. Talk to a lawyer ASAP!
OW is a creep for going with a married man with a young child.
If you were single, would you ever go for a man cheating on his wife with a young child? Then why now?
Don't focus on saving a marriage. Focus on saving you.
Best of wishes.
JujuB
Thanks for the response - I totally needed to hear what you said.
I've been speaking to a lawyer. Engaged one formally last Friday - he warned that it looks like WH has already taken legal advice and is shaping up for a fight. Which will take 6-9 months and cost approx £60K. I am terrified. We are seeing a mediator for the first time today - I am really really petrified. I am all alone here - WH has his family advising him on what to do, who to call. Barely slept last night.
You're the first person to tell me that OW is creep. Thanks for that - it's made me so happy! Everyone's been pursing their lips and saying '"Ah well, she's single, she didn't make any promises to you..." I totally get that it's my scummy WH that's broken my heart and spat on our shared history, but she's not innocent! My own father told me she was innocent, and my M-i-l has disappointed me so so much by refusing to judge her. I thought M-i-l and I were close - true colours showing now! She's just waiting to meet her now. I feel doubly betrayed - by WH and his family's response to the OW situation.
I should mention that both his parents cheated. They know we know about his father's affair but it was never mentioned, and his mother doesn't know we know about hers. WH always told me he would never do what they did -
I have been focussed on saving the marriage so much because I blamed myself for the As.
JujuB - I went through and read through your sitch and saw at one stage you felt the same way - did the way you feel change?
The first two EAs were back to back - he propositioned his first EA and she backed off and then he went straight to the second. Then she eventually backed off and he told me it was a dreadful mistake, blah blah. I wanted to believe him so much and also felt guilt for 'driving' him away - I have a hot temper and was really disrespectful in the way I spoke to him, really angry all the time. We worked on things for a year and were really happy, then conceived our little one.
When my son was a year old I was diagnosed with breast cancer. I was 7 weeks pregnant at the time, a much wanted baby. The doctors told me if I kept the baby it was likely we might both not make it because the cancer was aggressive. I went with the termination as recommended - couldn't find a single doctor who would tell me to keep the baby. The termination was much much harder to deal with than the cancer - with the cancer my hands were tied, but the baby... that was my decision and I regret it every day.
WH didn't want to talk about the baby at all. He would get really angry and say "what would you do - leave me and your son behind?" He said I was being totally selfish. To this day he's never really spoken to me about it.
Later when he was leaving for OW he told me he thought he exited the marriage around two years ago. Which would bring us to the time of the cancer and chemo. I feel he just couldn't cope - he's always been about fun and having a good time and then suddenly there was nothing about his life with me that was fun or good. And so he checked out.
The cancer was just the start of it. We lived apart for 8 months while I went through 8 sessions of chemo - I couldn't cope with our son so the little one and I moved to live with his parents 4 hours way. WH would commute to see us on weekends - arrive Friday night and leave Sunday afternoon. Most weekends I was totally out of it so didn't see him. He doesn't seem to think this should have had any effect on our marriage. When talking about the breakdown of our relationship and I said to him, can't you see this was a big deal for us - he just shrugs.
I joined him after the 8 months and went back to work full time, while settling our son in his new nursery and then going through 5 weeks of radiotherapy. My boss was not understanding and worked me like a dog. At the same time I was project managing the renovation of our family home - a huge project that overhauled the whole place. The architect was a nightmare - went around offending the whole street. I felt there was not one part of my life that was safe, that was sane. Misery everywhere. I took it out on WH - badly. Told him I hated him, that he was useless, that I had to do everything. Every time I went on one of these rants he just pursed his lips, walked away, and then came back and pretended everything was ok. Because he didn't react and I wanted a reaction, the next time I blew up I came at him harder, angrier. He started PA 1 at this time.
When I found out about PA1 I lost it. I became even angrier. He tried to fix things - booked a weekend away, got us some trust exercises to do. I wanted to punish him. And I did. On the drive home I just screamed at him for the whole way back - 2 hours. All I remember is he was gripping the steering wheel really hard and not saying anything. Later I found out as soon as we got back, he went and looked up the OW from PA1 and asked her to re-engaged. She backed off because she didn't realise he was married. Thus enters OW from PA2.
This OW was someone WH had been flirting with for months at his old job. He said she was fun and easy going and was always laughing. As opposed to battle scarred angry me.
When he left me for her the second time, I messaged her. Asked her to leave him while we sorted stuff out. Told her I was watching my three year old sleep and his world was falling apart. She ignored me. Somehow I blame her a lot more. She knew he was married. She knew his wife wanted to make things work. She gave him a choice to walk away. I just hope karma finds her and soon.
So that's why I am looking to reconcile. Because I blame myself. I know how he reacted was his choice but I feel I set him up to a certain extent. And I don't want to be that person I was. I'm making changes - every day. I want him to give me, the person I want to be, the person I am becoming, a chance.
I told him on Sunday I wanted to try again. He said he didn't. I said I could forgive him. He said he couldn't forgive me.
I asked him on Sunday if he would at least think about spending time with me, to get to know me again. One day a week, and to talk on the phone regularly. To see if we could be friends again. If we could be friends again he could perhaps reconsider saving the marriage. And even if he didn't it would help us co-parent. He said he would think about it. He popped by yesterday to see our son and said he was still thinking about it. I know he's waiting to see how I react in today's mediation session. And I don't really know how to act given that what we both want is completely the opposite of the other.
I am going to try to be the person I want to be. Not just because I want to save the marriage, but for me. So I am resolving to be to be firm but respectful, thoughtful and considered, no shooting off the hip, no negativity, no anger.
"Don't focus on saving a marriage. Focus on saving you."
Thanks for this JujuB - I am going to make this my new mantra.
2016
I used to post here as JulieH as well.
Funny the similarities...
In 2014 I was pregnant and diagnosed with melanoma. When I was first diagnosed it seemed worse then it ended up being. I remember wishing for a miscarriage because I did not want to have to make the choice of abortion....I did end up miscarrying after the surgery. (cancer ended up being a lot lower stage then initially thought). During this time, and a prolonged miscarriage after the surgery (heart beat of fetus stopped but my body thought it was pregnant and kept growing) my husband went into withdrawal mode as well. He would not help out with my son. He wasnt coming home. He was really really really nasty. My hormones, my grief, the anxiety of having cancer I am sure did not make me the best person to be around. I was also reacting to husbands withdrawal.
Anyway, in APril 2015 my husband told me that the reason he got annoyed with me when i called him at work hysterical because i had to induce the miscarriage...he was angry because i had wished for the miscarriage. (the only reason i wished for it was to not have to choose abortion) But he brought that up to blame me and inflict pain. It was that comment he made when I finally realized that I did not want to be married to this man.
Also, now that I am in the legal research portion of the process I am looking back and seeing that he had started hiding money all the way back in 2014. So this was planned
He was instigating and picking fights to make me look like the bad guy.
And like you, I believed it.
He refused to pay child support and like you, I was blaming it on the fact that I was such a bad wife.
Looking back, I needed to react sooner. With attorney.
Any way
I love these forums.
But it is easy to get caught on the bandwagon of being a light house and saving a marriage because we played roles in the breakdown of the marriage.
I think that the above might be true for the rare few percent of posters here. Your marriage can only be saved if your spouse is truly remorseful and begging for you to come back.
A lot of the posters that do implement DBing strategies and have their walkaways come back, end up back on these boards years later because their spouse cheated again.
We are not f'ing light houses. We are not innanimate objects. We are people with feelings that deserve to be in relationships with mutual respect and fidelity. It is ok to let go.
Let him have his OW. They deserve each other. Seriously. Forgive yourself. A good partner would have helped you when you had cancer. Seriously. A good partner would have been there for you when you were pregnant.
Just work on yourself for the next relationship. Work on yourself to be the best mom ever. But let this man and his family go.
It is so hard in the beginning. I feel like we are similar, in that we blamed ourselves. I feel that your husband used very similar tactics that mine did....
They do something wrong. We react. They stay silent and unemotional. We look like the bad or crazy guys for reacting with emotions.
This is my advice.
1. Mirror his lack of emotion and way of communication. Keep
it polite, detached, and only related to your child.
Write knowing that lawyers might one day be reviewing your
writing. You do not want him to look like the calm,
rational one while you look irrational. (Higly recommend
reading mustard seeds threads. Her husband cheated,and abused
and instigated and used her reactions to get a restraining order
and limit custody)
2. LEARN TO BECOME YOUR OWN ADVOCATE. You are going to have to
learn to see things for what they really are. It is hard to
stick up for yourself when everyone is telling you that you are
wrong. You are not wrong in this. Your ex is wrong, OW is
wrong, his family is wrong. Trust your deeper voice that is
angry for you.
3. Do not expect or even bother to attempt rationalizing to your ex
and his family. For whatever reason, they cannot or do not want
to see your perspectives. There are tons of diagnosis and
reasons for people like this. You cant win with them. They are
incapable of it and it will just show them your weakness. JUST
KEEP IT BUSINESS AND FOLLOW LAWYER ADVICE.
4. Give up hope for making a marriage work with someone capable of
doing the things he did. Life is filled with hardships. Your
ex prooved he cannot endure hardships and then blamed it on you.
Life will inevitably get hard again and he is not capable of
being there. OW is not getting a prize. Because eventually he
will screw her over too. She cant be easygoing and fun all the
time. Its just a matter of time.
Its actually a blessing that you are learning this now while you
are younger and self sufficient and healthy again.
Hugs
J.
Hey JujuB!
Thanks for the message, really. I appreciate your honesty and straight talking so much.
When I first read your message I was taken aback, and didn't understand my own reaction. I felt something shift in me when I read your messages, and I think it was in response to the honesty of your words.
I spoke to my family priest about my situation and asked him for guidance, a few weeks ago. His special ministry is in marriage. So he counsels marriages in crisis, like those in our situation. He told me in 95% of the cases he sees, there is no reconciliation.
So when you wrote about the lighthouse and how a lot of DB-ers see their WS return and then cheat again - that sounded like truth to me. And truth be told I cried thinking about it. And cry thinking about it. I want there to be hope.
In response to the DB-ers who see their spouses return and then cheat again - do you think it's because the changes they made at first didn't stick? In my own experience, that was the case for me. WH had his EAs, I made some changes but they weren't deep seated or permanent and I reverted to the behaviours that inspired his wandering off the first time, so can I really be surprised and angry if he repeats his own behaviours in response to mine? I didn't change so could I expect him to? It would have been nice if I was married to a better person than me, but is it his fault if he is just as weak and crap as I was?
Do you mind me asking why you come to this site? If you don't hope for R anymore?
I agree - I think our sitches are scary similar.
I see the value of your advice and thank you so deeply for it. Even as I confess I am going to have problems following it. : (
I am having trouble giving up hope of R, apart from buckets of self-recrimination, because I still think WH is a good man. A weak man, yes, but still a good man. I don't think he would have cheated if I hadn't treated him so badly. In the spirit of honesty, I was vicious. Really vicious. When I think of how I treated him and imagined if he did the same to me... I would have walked ages ago, much earlier. I wouldn't have cheated because that's not who I am, but I would have walked for sure. I was emotionally abusive and I didn't realise it. And now that I do, all I want to do is make amends. I see his leaving for this OW as cosmic payback.
My therapist thinks his cheating was definitely a coping mechanism, a way of self medicating the pain.
Any WS out there to shed any light?
It doesn't help that he's being super nice at the moment. He did some grocery shopping and bought me a bottle of wine and some of my favourite drinks, stuff he didn't need to buy because it was for me specifically. He knows I struggle to pick this stuff up by myself (the drinks) because it's heavy and I don't drive.
He's agreed to speak to a marriage counsellor recommended by a friend. A male counsellor. I spoke to this guy separately last week and he said to me the thought WH was in classic MLC and asked if WH would speak to him. I asked WH if he would in front of our mediator and he said he would think about it, and he asked me for his number on Saturday.
I found these old posts which were an eye-opener, and also have put my guilt into overdrive... : (
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2098531&page=1
I don't think he would have cheated if I hadn't treated him so badly.
Do not justify his actions.
Hi 2016
I reread my posts and I just want to clarify...I wanted another baby more then anything. The only reason I wished for the miscarriage was because I thought the cancer stage was more serious then it was and I was afraid of having to Choose an abortion. I am sorry that you lived that.
When I first started posting, I came on wanting reconciliation. Much like you, I blamed myself for everything. I was not the best wife. I took husband for granted. I was not a great house keeper. I was and am negative and cynical, I suffered from anxiety which is not fun for someone to live with. I actually wrote this post about how my ex worked so hard, and now would have to give me and son a portion of his earnings. And wondered if I was fair by asking for child support because I was living with my family.
Then I started realizing that it wasn't just me. My ex was not easy to live and deal with either. I might have had my issues, but I was loyal, faithful, honest, and a very good mom. I was also willing to work on our relationship and work on making changes. My ex was not.
And then I started realizing that no one is the perfect spouse. My mom can be a real Pain in the a, she constantly nags and complains ...but my father has remained loyal and devoted to her. My dad can also be difficult. He loses his temper over really ridiculous things and has OCD but my mom will always be faithful to him.
After children are born relationships get super tough. BOth parties have an obligation and committment to work through it. Neither will be on their best behavior, but you deal and learn to work as a team.
Some people walk out and cheat instead. And that's the real problem. And yes. You can be surprised and angry when your spouse cheats. We deserve more from our spouses. Your ex wasn't perfect and you never cheated, right? You can't be perfect 100% of the time in your relationships. Especially when sick with cancer and grieving a major loss and decision. But you should be able to count on loyalty and support from your spouse. If not why be married in the first place?
In the beginning of my situation, I came on here blaming myself. A few posters..Pyrite and vanilla saw through that and pointed out some really dysfunctional power struggles bet ex and myself very early on in my situation. It took me over a year to come to terms with that. I am still coming to terms with that. Especially when ex is nice.
(Although I am learning that ex is nice when he needs something or wants something and that is all.)
I am seeing similar "power struggles" in your situation which is why I am posting on your thread. I don't typically post on newcomers anymore. I don't want to be married to my ex anymore. Why would I want to be married to someone capable of doing the things he did?... although I admittedly want husband to want to reconcile if that makes any sense.
I still come to this site because I have met some of the most introspective, caring, and brilliant people on here that have shared an experience similar to mine. Who else can understand the depths of pain, and humiliation, and guilt, and doubt, and grief but those of us who post here?
Most of us start off wanting to save our marriages. Very few here do. Many times it is not necessarily our behaviors that cause spouse to betray, lie, cheat, abandon, reject. That type of thinking is a bit egotistical no? Those actions come from our spouses and their own issues. Let them own it.
And while many of us don't save our marriages, we do save ourselves.
I read some of these posts and just thought..."what that poor left behind wife with the 4 kids must have went through in her marriage. she is really lucky to be rid of him"
He really villified the mother of his 4 children who tried to change and compromise for her family didn't he?
Personally, I think any man over the age of 14 that criticizes a females weight and appearance has something wrong with him. But a man that criticizes the mother of his 4 children for gaining 30 lbs and calls her ugly and an embarrassment is a man I and every other woman with half of a brain should stay far away from.
I finished reading happy agains posts.
Thank you for finding them and posting 2016. It was great being able to read the perspective of a WH. He admitted to treating his wife pretty poorly and seemed to have some remorse, and I'm guessing that is where he earns some sympathy points. Many similarities between him and my ex. And many of the exes, I am sure. It Would be nice if our exes were remorseful as well.
He made a conscious choice of treating his wife really badly. She might have hurt him, but it sounds like it was out of being distracted by the children. Or just being unaware. Her hurt wasn't intentionally cruel. He knowingly and admittedly set out to hurt the mother of his children.
And we all know that when you hurt the mother of children, you are hurting the children as well.
just because he regrets, does not mean that the very CONSCIOUS and very cruel and traumatizing actions were not there.
Why did his posts make you feel guilty?
I will be blunt...it is usually the posters that come on here, that are filled with guilt and remorse and claim to be emotionally and verbally abusive that are being horrifically manipulated by the walk aways. Forgive yourself for not being super wife.
Please be careful in mediation. Fight for what works in your best interest. Don't agree to terms with the intention of winning your ex back.
(For some reason Walkaways get super nice and consider marriage counseling right before court dates.)
Hugs
J.
Don't agree to terms with the intention of winning your ex back.
This can not be stated enough. All to often the left behinds agree to their spouse's terms thinking that if they are nice and give them what they want then they will come back. However, the opposite is so true. The walkaways can become quite vindictive and will use anything/everything to get what they think they want/need. Be prepared and don't cave.
For some reason Walkaways get super nice and consider marriage counseling right before court dates
Truth
Hello JujuB and Jeep74 - thanks for the advice. It's a good reminder because when I'm busy beating myself up, my heart is so full of love and understanding for the WH that I do entertain the thought of saying as a way of making amends he can have what he want.
But I'm going to hold on and make sure I hold firm for what is best for me and my son as opposed to what's best for WH. Because in all our major life decisions I've always done what's best for WH and look at where it's got me. Time to put me first for a change.
JujuB
Your posts have been a lifeline. I never expected to meet anyone who could understand. I totally, totally, TOTALLY get the wishing for a miscarriage despite the baby being much wanted. My baby was v much wanted too and I was desperate for a miscarriage because I didn't want to be responsible. It still rips me up to this day. The baby is with me all the time, I carry him in my heart, the regret and sorrow never goes away, it just gets easier to mask.
Why did Happy Agains's posts make me feel even more guilt? Because I can totally see my WH in his posts, and I see his posts being so full of anger, even hate, because of the hurt he was exposed to. And people will say that, yes, but WH hurt you too. He did, without a doubt, but he didn't set out to, not at first. I was the first one to hurt anyone in our R. I didn't start out wanting to hurt him but I did start out not caring whether I hurt him or not.
Reading Happy Again's posts makes me realise how much I disappointed WH. It isn't like he's some monster who thought it would be fun to destroy the life of someone who loved him. He came to believe I didn't love him and then tried to get away and make himself happy. And in the course of doing so destroyed our life together.
I have never cheated but because it's so common (or so I'm told), I kind of go 'meh', when people say it's terribly unacceptable. Yes it is a terrible horrible thing to do someone you're supposed to love, but when you don't love that person, in fact, actively dislike them and believe they hate you and are deliberately hating you - is it so terrible? I see his cheating now as purely a coping mechanism.
Jeep74 - am mindful of your advice not to take on the responsbility for his cheating, I know he had other choices, but in light of his situation, I can't see his cheating as being such a horrible thing. If I had been loving, thought that we had a good marriage, couldn't offer him any better and then he cheated.. I would be devastated. But as it is, given how visceral and toxic our relationship was at the time, I kind of get it : (
IN FACT, I get it so much I am thinking of apologising to WH again tonight.
I've apologised several times now, by email and over the phone a couple of times but never face to face.
What do you guys think?
But don't worry - I am not a total fool (though quite a high percentage of a fool). I don't expect it will have any impact, it's more for me really, the absolution of my guilt. And also I am watching him - I am well aware that his being nice may be a way to manipulate me.
2016,
Hello. I have read your threads and want to offer you some support! I am so, so glad that jujuB found you and wrote what she did. I could not agree more! Her wisdom and advice is invaluable.
My sitch is different in that my WH did come back and we are almost at 2 years into piecing. So things can change and for some it does work. For others tho, and like jujuB suggests, it is better to be rid of a toxic person. D is hard, and especially with kid(s), but ultimately remaining in such an unhealthy M is harder on everyone.
I want to caution you on reaching out to him, apologizing, and allowing yourself to spin in this level of guilt. Firstly, if he is requesting D (which he is), DO NOT reach out to him or allow any R talks! Even if he is being nice right now, you could very much damage your position. People do sadly take advance of each other to gain leverage in legal proceedings. Down the road, what mattters MOST, is that you have a stable living sitch for you and son. Your guilt does not mean you sacrifice any of that.
In terms of the guilt you feel, and how awful you have been to H, well I can relate to that. A lot of us can. What I have learned over the last several year is that guilt is not a productive emotion. It serves no purpose other then to keep us held back and feeling low. The wayward also loses respect for us when we continue feeling guilty, reaching out, or being too nice--and they will see this as needy/weak or pursuing. Don't do it.
When I read your sitch, my heart ached. He was not there for you during your darkest days, he has had multiple affairs, and now he and his family turned their back on you. You are his W. You are the mother of his child. You are a survivor! Yes, you lost your chit, and yes, you said horrible things. You know what sweetie? I would take an aggressive person over a passive aggressive person ANY day. You are only human and he was very neglectful! I would have went off too!
I like to know where people are coming from. That's me. My H was king of the Nice Guy club and incredibly conflict avoidant and passive aggressive. Then he had an A with my "friend" and turned my life upside down. I have said more terrible things to this man than I can even remember. Actually I was crappy and controlling before the A too. Why? He drove me crazy, he avoided things, didn't listen to me, and I was having terrible hardships, and he wasn't there for me. He shrugged and turned his back on me. So I lashed out. We all cope differently. Sadly, we all make mistakes and that what can hapen in a M. It's hard!
But nothing, and I mean NOTHING, makes what he is doing ok or justified.
Please take a giant step back, go dark, rallly support--cry and open up to the safe people, but only treat him with distance and be the cordial neighbor. Step back and protect your heart and your son.
I promise, you will get through this!
Blu
Hi 2016sux,
I'm so sorry about what you are going through, and wish you all the happiness in the world. I'm in the beginning stages of dealing with D, but thought I'd share with you a little of my experience that may help with guilt.
I was the husband that had an emotional affair, and decided to leave my wife, only to realize my mistake and beg for her back. She was never able to forgive me or trust me again. While I was trying to win her back, I was overcome with guilt, and I realized two important lessons.
1. If you feel guilty while trying to win back your spouse, there's a part of you that wishes to right the wrongs and remove guilt. But this motivation is based on fear instead of self love. this motivation makes it harder to win back your spouse
2. the best way to get over guilt, is to become a better person that would not do those things. For me, i realized that the horrible way i treated my wife will always be wrong. i have been trying to look deep into myself to find the issues that caused me to do those things and heal. I'm not there completely yet, but becoming a little bit better person allows me to forgive myself more. one day, i will awaken and be the type of person that would treat his wife with love and respect always.
i hope that helps a little bit with the guilt. I know it can be really hard to hate yourself. I've done it for a long time, and i hope you find ways to love yourself.
I know it can be really hard to hate yourself. I've done it for a long time, and i hope you find ways to love yourself.
I think that in some form, we all have resulting from this situation. I've done it myself in reflecting back on my marriage - I wasn't the best, and had I known my ex's history and how it affects her present and future, I would have done things differently.
BluWave!
OMG - its like I've been touched by a celebrity! I've read all your posts in 'Piecing' - you're one of the success stories that gives hope. Particularly when you describe how you didn't do DB-ing right to start with.
Having said that I think your husband's return has as much to do with him as it does your efforts. Which is why I don't think my WH will return - he just doesn't want to : (
I apologised yesterday anyway, before I read your post. It did NOT go well. He thanked me and then told me not to beat myself up, because the marriage broke down because of the two of us. He told me the 'old' me would be beating herself up about it for a long time and he didn't want that for me or our son. So in a way I felt absolved and a bit released. Like I could move on a bit.
Then it all fell apart. I broke cardinal DB-ing rule - asked him if he thought we could ever give it a go. If he felt any love for me. Told him I loved him, was in love with him!!! (EEEK ARRGH). Cue a lot of squirming on his end saying "I don't know how many times we have to go through this."
I get confused because he says things like "If we continue down this path, we are getting divorced." And "unless things change we are getting divorced". I read a lot into the "if". Am I wrong to?
I don't quite know how but it became very quickly about money. I lost control and pointed out that he only gave me £200 for December, pleading poverty, when he spent £450 on the OW, on nice dinners and nights out. And on Wednesday when it was sleeting I asked him if he could pick our son up (he has car, I have a bus and long walk) and he pretended not to have read the message until an hour later - stupid move because WhatsApp read receipts showed he read it 3 mins after I sent it. I had kept that to myself but then told him I knew he had read the message and ignored me because I got riled up when he said he would look after me if the cancer returned - as if! When I can't even get a pick up for our son He went onto the defensive and accused me of spending too much - on self help books from Amazon! He walked off really angry and frustrated with me.
On the whole though, I felt I stood up for myself. But at the same time wish I hadn't brought up what I did about OW spend and the WhatsApp message - should have saved it for lawyers. Self control is not my thing : (
BluWave, I wanted to say thanks for sharing about how things were in your marriage, like the lashing out etc. Because whenever I see a wife, someone with a ring on her finger, someone walking with her husband, I just want to weep because I think "There goes a better woman than me. Her husband still loves her because she's nice to him." I feel so worthless.
Also thanks to JuJuB and Jeep. I haven't heard stories until recently of how other people lash out at their WS. It's only when I've been describing to my friends how our marriage broke down, they start to say, well actually, I do the same thing etc, but they admit they haven't gone to the extent I did.
Add to that WH's assertion that all he wants is a little bit of kindness in his life and the OW is the nicest kindest woman he's ever met and there goes my self esteem down the proverbial drain. Again, I feel like the ugliest person around.
Hi james17
Thanks for reaching out - I read your post and I feel your pain. I think you're pretty amazing because you've realised the mistakes you made and you didn't go into the self pity party my husband used as an excuse to make his EA a full blown PA. I think you should give yourself some credit for that. You've shown your wife a lot more respect than my WH has ever shown me. I wish my WH was more like you - it takes awareness and a conscience to be in your position, as painful as it is.
Your advice is amazing and spot on. It's about self love. I have been willing to take this emotional beating, being nice to WH when I know he's going home to OW and living the life with her he should be living with his W, because of my guilt, my self hatred. Which serves no purpose but to make me weaker. So I will take your advice to heart. From now on am focussing on being a better self, and not wasting time on regretting the past. Thank you for sharing the insight - it's valuable and I can see was hard won.
"I was also willing to work on our relationship and work on making changes. My ex was not."
JujuB - this is a really good point. I am beginning to realise I want to be with someone who doesn't give up when it gets tough. Sometimes when I am feeling more lucid, I know in my heart he's done me a favour by walking away now. If I am in a positive frame of mind, I realise that it's better to be alone than with someone like this, who was capable of lying and acting and compartmentalising to the extent that the persona he was projecting bore no resemblance to who he was inside. And then I feel happy that OW has landed him because as you've pointed out previously, he ain't no prize. I read somewhere else that WHs are prizes for the losers.
"...although I admittedly want husband to want to reconcile if that makes any sense."
I totally understand this. I realise there is conflict in my wanting him back - I want him back but not as damaged as he is now. I realised I just want him back first and then I want to be able to decide what to do with him. I guess, quite bluntly, I still want control of the situation. I want control of my life.
Well yesterday was a major disaster. I wasn't well at work, started developing a fever, and was dreading hauling myself home. And then thought to myself - why should I have to get on a bus and drag this weary body home when my husband is so busy taking care of his OW? So I decided to call him and asked him for a ride home.
He complied, but was v strained and wouldn't look at me or speak to me really, unless I asked him a direct question. Once we got to the house, he busied himself by making me a hot drink and something to eat, while I crawled into bed. Then he went to get our son from nursery - it was his night to do it anyway.
When he came back I saw he had bought me some meds and a cough sweet he knows I like. It affected me.
I fell asleep and then woke up in a blind panic, one of the worst panic attacks I've had in a long time. I couldn't stop thinking - if I get sick, who's going to look after me? I couldnt' stop thinking about him, about how much I wanted him to get into bed and cuddle me, the way he would have years ago when he cared. So I shouted out for him. He came to the room and sat perched at the edge of the bed as far away from me as possible. And then I fell apart. I did everything you're not supposed to do. I reasoned, I stopped just short of begging, I cried...
He just sat there, stoic. Didn't really say anything. I told him I loved him, was in love with him. Our son kept bouncing in and out of the room, I asked him not to do this to us. In other words, text book everything you're not supposed to do. He told me he doesn't want me anymore, he's not attracted to me, doesn't see me as a partner ...
When he was saying all these things to me, a part of my mind went quiet and thought of something Cadet always says to all newbies when they post, it's a DB slogan of sorts, isn't it - "Believe nothing of what they say and half of everything they do." In my madness - (I know I'm not right at the moment) - I have to ask - does this mean I shouldn't believe it when he says he doesn't love me anymore and can't ever love me again?
While you're right that we shouldn't be too consumed by words, we do have to look at behavior. In this case the behavior is that he's had multiple affair partners going on for over a year and that he's not responsive to your pursuing. DB is about doing what works to improve your interactions. Whether a M can be saved or not can't be guaranteed because it depends on them, but you can do your part to break out of old patterns that don't work and give it a chance.
We all battle our emotions at time, trying to do what we know is right despite our fear, our pain. We have to do what we have to do though. For you what you have to do is to quit pursuing behavior, and to detach emotionally from WAH. There are a few thoughts that I held on to that helped me during this difficult period:
How can I expect my WAS to ignore what her emotions are telling her and do what's right (ignore attraction to OM and continue to invest in marriage) if *I* can't do it myself and control my own actions and behavior?
How can I expect my WAS to let go of her dependence on OM, if I can't let go of my dependence on WAS?
It's not fair for us to hold them to a standard of expectation we can't achieve ourselves. Beyond that, you need to be a leader right now. You can't follow your WAH's path. You have to go down your own path. Make it a path that leads by example. Maybe he will follow your example. Maybe he won't. But you have to do your part. Doesn't matter what happened up until this moment. You can start now. The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now.
Zues126
Thank you thank you THANK YOU.
I've been so lost and you have told me what I needed to hear. Just sat here at work crying into my keyboard. Thank you.
Going to plant that tree right now. Will probably dig it up and trample all over it in five minutes, but in six minutes will replant again. Thank you.
JujuB
Why did Happy Agains's posts make me feel even more guilt? Because I can totally see my WH in his posts, and I see his posts being so full of anger, even hate, because of the hurt he was exposed to. (
I disagree. Let's call a duck a duck. Happy agains actions torwards his wife were full of anger and hate because that's what he was....Angry and hateful.
The things he said to her and the way he treated her was disgusting. NO ONE deserves that. It was meditated and conscious and he admits that. He on,y became remorseful when she lost weight and became beautiful again and stopped trying.
I don't want a partner that only wants me when I'm at my best, because it is impossible to be at your best all the time in life. We age, we get sick, we lose jobs, we perform badly, we lose our tempers... I want a partner that will be as committed as I am. Your ex is not committed. He is a fair weather mate. They don't change.
While my husband never insulted my physical appearance, he did insult everything else and it really, really, really traumatized me. Happy again reminds me of my ex as well. I would rather be raped in the middle of a public street then endure the way my ex treated me. No one in their right minds would ever date their rapist. So why are we fighting to get back with our exes?
Hi JujuB
Have been looking forward to hearing from you.
There is definitely a problem with his commitment to the marriage. I asked him yesterday what our vows meant to him, 'for better or for worse', and he just shrugged and said he didn't think of it at the time.
I feel his 'fair weather' nature is understandable because he once told me he was resigned to being unhappy for the rest of his life, until he found an outlet through having affairs. He said then he realised he could be around for our son and still have some happiness with these other women. So for that reason I understand and forgive and want him back. Because he didn't change after we got married - I did. What Happy Again said about being sold a bill of goods and feeling shortchanged - that struck a nerve for me. What if I married someone I thought loved me and I loved, and they stopped being happy, loving and fun and were mean and critical and hurt me all the time when they were supposed to be the one person who loved me most... I can't condemn him.
Don't get me wrong. I really want to. I REALLY REALLY want to. It would be so much easier to kick and scream and tell him he's an evil poisonous toad who should burn in hell. Especially after last night. I've had quite a lot of crap in my life since childhood but this pain, this abandonment - it's visceral. He's ripping out my heart in slow motion.
I want to detach so so so badly, I just can't figure out how to.
I don't think Happy Again was angry and hateful to start with. He just evolved that way after his marriage stopped working. My understanding is that he has reconciled with his wife and he's happy now - anyone else know anything?
WH is not scheduled to see our son until Sunday. 3 days away. What do I do in the interim? Should I just go dark? But in my experience this means he will just continue to demonise me in his mind and harden his heart towards me. Can you detach lovingly and still be present in their lives somehow?
These months are so painful 2016. This is one of the hardest experiences you will have to endure. But you will endure it because you have no choice.
I promise you it will get better. Time will heal this and eventually these feelings will not feel so sharp and visceral. Just give it time. You will get through this. You will not always feel this way. Feel the pain and just ride with it. You are mourning, you are denying, you are angry, you are bargaining, you are begging, you are guilty. It's part of the grief cycle and eventually you will accept.
Right now you probably don't want to accept. We can spend all day debating the walk away spouse But really that part is out of your control.
What is in your control is
1. Being there for your child
2. Self care
3. Preparing for your future...lawyer, living arrangements, developing your own support team to help you, getting rid of depending on your ex for anything.
This will make you feel good. You are a survivor.
What goals do you have for yourself?
What are some positives about you?
2016sux...the wayward spouse is much better than we are at detaching because they detached a long while back. It takes time. I am still not totally there. I just said to myself yesterday that just when I feel that I have pulled away a great deal...I get reeled in by her some way and my emotions get stirred up. It took me several hours of reflection to get back to where I was earlier that morning.
The wayward goes dark on us unless they need or want something from us...they do not care how we are doing or what we are doing. You should just focus on you and your kids at the moment. Live each day for you and your kids.
One thing that keeps me going...Romans 12:12...Rejoice in hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer.
Find something that you can put positive energy into that will take your mind away from the bad (WH) and help you focus on the good (yourself & kids).
2016sux...the wayward spouse is much better than we are at detaching because they detached a long while back. It takes time. I am still not totally there.
Sometimes its years in the making. It's been two years since BD and then the divorce last year and I still haven't completely. It took an over the top act by her Monday to trigger my failsafe. Now even the ghost has vanished.
Not detached completely either. Had a trigger this morning with sons diagnosis. Husband left in summer of 2015
I talked to someone that thinks it may be a form of PTSD. What do you guys think about that?
The ways these guys left was pretty cruel. The betrayal and villification does some serious damage.
Hi everyone
Thanks for the messages. I took a few days off to digest everything that was said. It's been a really rough few days, been v low and crying loads.
JujuB - definitely there is PTSD. Thanks for the advice about concentrating on myself and my son - definitely trying to do that. Is your son all right - what's this about a diagnosis? Hope the little one is ok.
SBJ - thanks for the message. You're totally right - WH told me he 'left' 2 years ago, just didn't tell me! He actually said that - "I left 2 years ago and I didn't tell you." What hurts is 2 years ago I was going through chemo and living separately from him for 8 months - what does he expect?
Jeep74 - actually upset for you to hear 2 years post BD the healing isn't complete. What did your WW do to trigger you?
Am totally dreading and hating the Valentine's day preps - it's everywhere. Its killing me. Things weren't good before he left but we always got each other cards at least ; (
Saw WH yesterday. I spent the day at work crying and speaking to a friend on the phone who helped me move forward a bit with regards to understanding that he's LEFT. I know it sounds mad, but because he flip flopped about leaving a few times, I am finding it difficult to understand it's actually OVER. My mindset has been that he's secretly confused and is at the back of his mind considering coming back. My friend just pointed out he's told me its over in the clearest way possible - with actions - he's living with the OW.
So cue lots of snot and weeping in a meeting room for a couple of hours. By the time I got home I had taken a mental step forward about getting go. So I was a bit down but was calm, quiet. Normally I act happy to see WH and try to connect with him by asking him about his day etc, but this time I couldn't really be bothered, was exhausted from all the crying, so just intended to make a drink and go to bed.
He asked me to join him in the kitchen to talk to him as he was pottering about and he wanted to talk about our son moving abroad with me, nothing specific, just about the mediation session he's pushed for next Monday, and then he mentioned the counsellor I asked him to see by himself. He said he's been thinking about it and would call him tomorrow. He actually said "I want to talk to him, not just because of our son." I didn't react - just nodded. He asked me a couple of times if I was all right - I said 'yeah', was cordial but a bit flat and tired. I walked out of the kitchen with my drink and settled in front of the TV and he followed and started talking about our son and his day at nursery. He mentioned he was going back to stay with his friend (as opposed to OW - yeah right, whatever!) and before he left, he talked about getting some of our son's artwork framed and put up. I don't know how to read this - recently he's been saying he wants to sell the house ASAP, so whats the point of framing stuff and putting it up?
I read a recent post from BluWave who had this valuable advice to give us newcomers - she said she wishes for our sakes we could stop analysing everything single thing WS do. I know she's right. But at the same time... It's like a Pandora box situation - I really want to look away and not think about it, but I can't help wanting to peek, wanting to find out... The Pandora's box is WH's head - I really really want to figure out what's inside.
But look at what happened to Pandora : (
I checked WH's phone while he was here and saw all these texts to her which broke my heart even more, if possible. They are planning a trip away together. In two weeks. She's counting the days. She told him she loves him. He didn't say it back, thankfully. Not this time anyway : (
He told me yesterday he was going to see the counsellor who's number I gave him two weeks ago. He's going to meet him on Saturday. Why? I don't get it. When he said he was going to meet him, I read into it that he was not 100% sure that the marriage was over.
I'm not on FB and just thought to look for his FB page. He hasn't had one for years, but from his new profile pic he set it up in December. He made most things private but I could see he hadn't set his relationship status up and she was not in his friends list. I've just checked and he's set it totally private. I know it shouldn't bother me because I know he's with her, but I feel betrayed afresh all over again. The knife in my chest is twisting. Does the pain ever end?
: (
I checked WH's phone while he was here and saw all these texts to her which broke my heart even more, if possible. They are planning a trip away together. In two weeks. She's counting the days. She told him she loves him. He didn't say it back, thankfully. Not this time anyway : (
Screenshot it all for your lawyer. It will come in handy one day. Sorry to hear that. Mine was calling the OM her future husband. Ugh.
I read into it that he was not 100% sure that the marriage was over.
No. You are reading into it what you hope he is feeling. Nothing more, nothing less.
I'm not on FB and just thought to look for his FB page. He hasn't had one for years, but from his new profile pic he set it up in December. He made most things private but I could see he hadn't set his relationship status up and she was not in his friends list. I've just checked and he's set it totally private. I know it shouldn't bother me because I know he's with her, but I feel betrayed afresh all over again. The knife in my chest is twisting. Does the pain ever end?
First, by looking for things you are doing nothing but bringing your own self pain. I know because I've been there. It [censored], yes. She may very well be on his friends list - maybe she has you blocked. The OM had me blocked so I couldn't see him or his posts (even her posts to him) to her...how'd I find out? I asked a mutual friend to look, and there he was.
The pain will end in time. That's the best info you'll get. There isn't any magic pill or words that will make things easier. Just time. Eventually you'll get to a place where you are able to stand without your knees buckling. Until then, one foot in front of the other and never look down.
2016, I'm so sorry. Your suffering is palatable and we know the pain well. I know it's hard, but do your best not to peek or look. In the case that you can use some things as evidence, well, I guess take that opportunity. But for things like social media and just general snooping, you (not him) are killing yourself, your soul. I refuse to snoop. And I'm well aware my H may be having an A. But I cannot DB and stay strong for my children if I feed the pain with evidence. Is it ignorant? Maybe. Am I naïve? No. You can't really do much with additional A information (again unless you plan on using it legally), so it's of no function other than hurting you further. Be strong, be brave. Pray, meditate, do something to calm and bring peace to your mind -- don't go looking for more hurt. ((2016)).
Thanks Jeep74 and 100383. Its been a dreadful day but at least it's coming to an end now - made it through another day - and your words have helped.
I know I should stop looking. Perversely though, I must say it helps me detach a bit. It hurts like HELL to see how happy they are together, how loving, but then when WH comes up with something that I would normally have taken as a hopeful sign, I know it's not really - he's saying it out of guilt etc.
I can't use the affair information. In the UK it's no fault divorce. The courts don't care why the marriage failed. Since I am not going to file for divorce, I'm letting him deal with that headache, it's not going to do me any good. I know I shouldn't look. But at the same time it kills any hope I have, which is what I want. I want hope to die. It's the only way I can think to detach.
He keeps saying things like "If we keep going down this road, we are getting divorced." What's with the IF?
Does anyone else struggle with hate? The last few days I've been waking up in a rage, full of hate for WH. I really really REALLY hate him. Which is making it hard to do LTR and DB in general - when I see him I just want to throw things at him and cuss him out bitterly. But the part of me that thinks reconciliation is a good idea (the really insane part), tells me to keep it civil.
It hurts like HELL to see how happy they are together, how loving, but then when WH comes up with something that I would normally have taken as a hopeful sign, I know it's not really - he's saying it out of guilt etc.
It does hurt like hell. To see them, or even pictures, makes it all the worse. For example, a few weeks ago the kids wanted to go to one of their favorite places and climb the light house. Just so happens that same lighthouse is the one where the ex and the OM had a picture taken - a lovey dovey type and all. But I went anyway because they wanted to. And the whole time we were on the top platform part, all I could think of was that pic I saw. It didn't hurt me like it used to, but it stuck with me.
It gets easier, over time. I know you hear that a lot on here, but it does. And there isn't anything that can help but time.
I know snooping is bad, but sometimes it's helpful.
Was determined not to snoop from today but looked in WH's email and there it was in all it's hideous glory. An email from his OW, advising him on what to write in his proposal for the next mediation session. Which is to bring up my 'mental health' issues. He's obviously painted a pretty picture for her. They discuss how they are going to stop me from going home with my son.
I am so devastated, heartbroken and beyond angry. I can't believe someone who stood up in front of everyone we knew and said he would love me forever can do this to me. I feel disgusted. I feel sick.
I am also very very scared. He could trap me here forever. I only moved here to be with him. I left my family, job, friends behind. My whole life. I can't believe he's doing this to me.
JujuB - you warned me this might happen. I believed he wasn't that bad. I feel like an absolute mug.
This is it for me. I will never reconcile with him, ever.
An email from his OW, advising him on what to write in his proposal for the next mediation session.
2016sux,
Welcome to the club! My XW and OM decided that I'm a narcissistic psychopath. Keep in mind that the OM is a one syllable kind of guy; I'm fairly certain he can't spell narcissist and I know he couldn't make the diagnosis.
I'm sorry about all of the pain and stress you're experiencing. Don't let them get you down; they're living in their own little world.
Hi doodler
Thanks for the message.
I want to know this comes back to bite them. I want to know Karma is going to get them good. I am so fed up of being the one to suffer while they giggle in bed and make plans for the future.
I know I caused him pain in our time together, but so did he to me. And the pain he's caused me since WAY outstrips anything I ever did to him.
I am tired of waiting to heal. It's been 8 months now. The pain is with me all the time, bar a few minutes here and there when I can get my mind under control. And most times I can't concentrate on GAL etc because of the pain I'm in. Its like a massive cosmic joke at our expense. Isn't anyone else really tired of being kicked in the derriere by Life? I am totally losing it today.
Doodler - how do you know XW and OM think that of you? And how do you react to them? I have to see WH tomorrow and I know I should do what JujuB's advised, which is to mirror everything, but that is going to be HARD given than I have a soul and he's a lying piece of heartless scum.
Doodler - how do you know XW and OM think that of you?
My XW told me that they'd made my diagnosis. After all, I was completely irrational about their "special friendship."
And how do you react to them?
I'd just ignore their bullsh*t. They're living in their own special world and there's nothing you can do to change that. Just let it roll off of you and into the sewer where it belongs.
I did play into the psycho thing just a bit. Last summer, I attended a weekly public event that the OM also attended. I'd walk up to him and loudly give him back-handed compliments like, "You're looking buff; those abs are awesome!" He's a fat slob and that embarrassed the h3ll out of him and it was a lot of fun. If I'm going to be diagnosed as a psychopath, I might as well be one.
I did play into the psycho thing just a bit. Last summer, I attended a weekly public event that the OM also attended. I'd walk up to him and loudly give him back-handed compliments like, "You're looking buff; those abs are awesome!" He's a fat slob and that embarrassed the h3ll out of him and it was a lot of fun. If I'm going to be diagnosed as a psychopath, I might as well be one.
Oh man, I'm dying. I couldn't say that about the OM in my case as he had that kind of physique. I just had to go psycho the other way. But he got the drift.
I just had to go psycho the other way. But he got the drift.
Jeep,
The first time I saw the OM, post separation, I went psycho the other way (I couldn't help myself). I was like a heat seeking missile. Unfortunately, there was a cop nearby. That set the stage for my antics later on; he knew I wouldn't hesitate to take care of any issues that might arise, so I could heckle him with impunity. I was compelled to take full advantage of any opportunities that arose.
Doodler,
I think that's a completely normal reaction in our case. I didn't too far, just told him that I'd break his legs. And meant it.
Jeep,
I understand. They can see the look on your face and your demeanor; there no question that it'll end badly for them.
You're psycho.
BAHAHA. Just that once, sir. Just that once.
I m sorry for all your are going through, I've been there.
I'll keep this short and sweet. I did not meet my ex's affair partner for years, until after they were married. I was worried I would go nuts on her. The first time I met her was me handing my 3 and half year old daughter to her, because my e had surgery and couldn't come down the stairs. I was as nice as pie. Time went on and I had to see her for my daughter's big events.
To this day, I am cordial to her. What am I going to do? I actually got tricked into having dinner with them tonight. It's not really what I want to do with my Friday night, but I am doing it for D9.
I could only imagine that my ex must have painted me pretty poorly for her to be ok with having an affair with a married man with a baby on the way. I can tell, she is affected by the fact that I am not what he made me out to be and I am a great woman and mother. I live with that satisfaction, and she has to live with a cheater.
Hang in there. I've gone through it all, it's been almost 9 years and I went from a mess who was a scared brand new mom who's husband left her for another woman to being a strong independent, not bitter, and happy and healthy woman. Do your self a favor and stop inflicting your own pain by snooping. That's slowing down the healing process:)
I will tell you this funny part. The first time we all went out to dinner together was at my D's pre school graduation. His sister and husband were there too, and his father and GF I think. It was at a hibachi table. She sat on one side of ex, she sat on other, but she was on the end of the table. Ex was eating off my plate because he knows what I don't like, and he would put on my plate what I did like. She was barely in the conversation and she looked PISSED.
I took a little satisfaction from that.
Hi Ginger1
Thanks for the message, it was really helpful. It made me feel less hurt, more able to take it less personally, and also gave me an insight into what I want - I want to follow your example. I want for her to eventually look at me and think, "hang on a minute...". I LOVED your story about dinner and how the OW was looking pissed off. Oh please please PLEASE may that happen for me one day, to be in that scenario.
I have detached a bit more to the point where I feel able to stop looking at emails. Ginger1's message about my hurting myself and delaying recovery really helped bring the message home. I will contend that the snooping was productive in that it helped me detach and see WH in reality as opposed through my fog of despair and longing. He's still playing me, but now because I know what I know, I'm able to look at him and go mentally 'yeah, whatever', and not obsess for hours about the smallest throwaway glance, the most innocuous phrasing of words.
I maintain the WH is still trying to mess with my head. He went to see marriage counsellor guy on Saturday, and sent me a text on Sunday saying thanks for sending him his way, what an amazing guy. I just agreed and left it at that, didn't do the probing my old self would have done.
Saw WH at mediation yesterday and he brought up seeing marriage counsellor again. He said he had been really ill with a cold and so wasn't able to think about what he said to him. I feel he knows this would normally catch my attention - that he's willing 'to think'. Sometimes I feel he's acting like a cat playing with a mouse. But because I've seen the level of cosiness between him and OW through their messages, I know this is just a front - to destabilise me while he organises himself. I just shrugged and said "oh ok".
During mediation, I mentioned I've 'caught up' - the mediator said in our last session when I asked WH to reconcile and WH remained silent, that he saw this often - one spouse leaves and the other is mentally lagging behind. I said I am not looking for reconciliation any more. And then proceeded to pin him down on maintenance. Which I really enjoyed.
I am no longer looking actively for reconciliation, because I see now so clearly that WH has to be the driver behind this, he has to be convinced this is what he wants and until, if ever, he reaches this point, I need to just get on with living and healing - i.e. GAL. I am going to actively engage in doing things to make me happy now - am going to go swimming on Thursday, start working out again, joining the gym at work tomorrow, and reading stuff that isn't related to relationships etc. WH has taken enough of my past from me, I'll be damned if I'm going to let him take more of my present and any of my future.
BUT...
I still find there's an ember glowing, in my little war torn heart. A little ember of hope. I've been reading PsySara's threads - her turn around is amazing. It's inspiring and raises conflicted feelings in me - hope, positivity, and at the same time, hopelessness and feelings of failure. Because her WH looked pretty gone to me at certain stages. But the start of their piecing as she's described it, just a month after he said he wanted to D, is a dream come true - it's my dream too.
I spoke to a friend about it yesterday - described PsySara's sitch and turnaround and how it made me think I wanted to try that and I should keep hanging in there. Hanging in there means not relocating to my country of origin, where I have better job prospects, all my family and my oldest friends, a great support network, and where I feel truly myself, my strongest, best self, with my son. I've been hesitating because as much as I hate WH at the moment and hate this city, I love my little boy so much the thought of doing anything that would hurt him is killing me, even though I know he would adjust and will see WH, albeit less regularly.
When I cited PsySara's example, my friend pointed out statistically, her sitch is probably v rare.
I want to ask - anyone come to the conclusion that stories of restoration are very much in the minority? JujuB has affirmed this to me. Anyone else can tell me what's happened to them, what they think?
WH is going on holiday with OW on Saturday. For four days. They will be spending Valentine's together.
Since my last post I have not made any overtures to him. Mentally I am not detached, still thinking of him 100% of the time, but I don't contact him unless in response to a message he sends me, always about our son.
On the advice of a friend who's been through this, I tried an antidepressant on Tuesday. BIG mistake for me. I'm sensitive to stuff like this and it really threw me. Within 3 hours of the first pill, I was trembling, heart palpitations, feeling really really bad. This is my third go at ADs, not ever going to touch them again. I had to have the day off work on Wednesday and have dragged myself in today, but still feeling v lousy. V fragile.
On Friday, WH wanted to speak about mediation and the upcoming holidays. I asked him where he was taking OW - he lied and said they were going to somewhere local. I forgot about my reaction here - not DB, so haven't been applying the principles as strictly as I said before. I said to him, 'Why are you lying?' Then he admitted he was taking her away, abroad, and said it was because he didn't want me to think he was spending loads of money on her.
He will be. WH loves staying in 5* hotels. No way he would take anything else. Plus he's only given me a quarter of the maintenance we agreed he would give me at the last mediation session. I haven't referenced it - am just going to bring it up at next mediation session that he's breaking promises as soon as he makes them.
After he 'fessed up about taking her away, I asked him why he was still lying, and he said he was still lying to 'loads of people'. Which made me feel better because I guess he's lying to her too. She's not getting a better deal out of this than me really.
He asked me for a legal separation. I said I didn't see how this would benefit anyone really and I don't really see the point of it. I told him if he wanted a D I would file if he wanted to rush things through (he can't file unless he lies about why we are getting divorced), but on the condition he pays for my lawyer's fees. He said he would think about it.
I then said I had been thinking of taking S3 away as well, because it's been rough going for me and I haven't had a break for a while. To a seaside town an hour away, but it was expensive getting a hotel. WH immediately said he would pay for it. I expressed appreciation.
On Saturday when WH came to pick S3 up for the day, he mentioned he would look online for a hotel for me and S3. I asked him if he meant what he said, that he would pay for it. He said yes, and I said, so how's it going to work? He said he would book it for me, which he did. I know he's done it out of pure guilt because he's taking OW away, no reflection on me whatsoever.
This is reinforced by the fact that he's effectively taken it out of the maintenance money he's meant to give me - I know when I bring up the depleted amount in the next mediation session, he's going to say it's because he's forked out for the hotel.
I am struggling. I haven't posted in a while because I have been trying to do what I know I should be doing - detach, GAL... and I have been trying. Unsuccessfully.
In my real world I'm reaching a point where everyone is getting sick of me. Of how down I'm being. He left in November and apparently I should be over it by now. Should I?
I can't believe my husband is going away on holiday with another woman. That another woman tells him she loves him. It feels so wrong. Here I am sitting at this keyboard literally crying into the keypad and he's planning his little jaunt away with his OW. I want to rip my heart out and burn it.
On the advice of a friend who's been through this, I tried an antidepressant on Tuesday. BIG mistake for me. I'm sensitive to stuff like this and it really threw me. Within 3 hours of the first pill, I was trembling, heart palpitations, feeling really really bad. This is my third go at ADs, not ever going to touch them again. I had to have the day off work on Wednesday and have dragged myself in today, but still feeling v lousy. V fragile.
Exercise - real, exhausting exercise - is THE single most effective anti-depressant there is. Nothing even comes close. But you have to really exercise, none of this piddly stuff.
WH is going on holiday with OW on Saturday. For four days. They will be spending Valentine's together.
Since my last post I have not made any overtures to him. Mentally I am not detached, still thinking of him 100% of the time, but I don't contact him unless in response to a message he sends me, always about our son.
It is difficult to think of them. I still do. Not as much as I used to, but I guess part of me always will. Just be the best 2016 you can. Remember, your road is lined with gold. Own it.
A friend had this advice to give me today. She said to get through this I have to harden my heart. I asked her how to do it - she said to think of all the bad times. But when I do, I feel hate for him. And he feels it when he sees me. I can't be the cordial neighbour with this hate in my heart.
A friend had this advice to give me today. She said to get through this I have to harden my heart. I asked her how to do it - she said to think of all the bad times. But when I do, I feel hate for him. And he feels it when he sees me. I can't be the cordial neighbour with this hate in my heart.
I would say that's not the best of advice. That would only lead you to becoming bitter - and it will be a bitterness that will extend well past him.
hi Jeep
So glad to hear from you. Thanks for the response. I take the point about exercise. I've joined the gym at work. Going to bring my stuff in tomorrow and give it a go.
I needed that reminder. Thanks.
hi Jeep
So glad to hear from you. Thanks for the response. I take the point about exercise. I've joined the gym at work. Going to bring my stuff in tomorrow and give it a go.
I needed that reminder. Thanks.
No problem. It not only releases all sorts of feel-good chemicals, it forces you to concentrate on proper form, too. Not to mention the health benefits from it.
I looked at the hotel WH booked for me and S3 for our little out of town jaunt and it totally broke me. I know he was trying in his own way to be nice because he booked a little boutique type hotel, just the type we would have always enjoyed going to together, and it is killing me knowing that while I'm with my son putting on a cheerful face, looking around at this beautiful room with a WH sized hole in it, WH is in a nicer room with OW. I couldn't do it - too many memories, so I cancelled it and booked a cheaper one, more like a motel. It's nearer the seafront as well so S3 will like it better.
I sent the cancellation message to WH so he knows those funds will become free, no message, couldn't think of anything to write. He called me almost immediately to ask what was wrong. I told him I was still going, and was honest about why I cancelled.
I made a boo boo - did a mini R talk. I asked him if he thought when we got married he would ever divorce me. He said no, softly. I asked him if he thought marriage was for life. He said yes. I said I thought so too.
I told him I was feeling he was being very disrespectful with his actions. He didn't get it - I had to break it down for him. I told him it was disrespectful that he was going on holiday with another woman while still married to me, to be telling another woman he loved her while still married to me, to have another woman tell him she loved him... He said he had not thought of it that way. (?!) I reminded him of when I first found out about OW in September and when he told me he had broken it off with her and would only re-engage when the ink on our divorce papers were dry. At the time I thanked him for it, told him how much that meant to me. What an idiot I was.
He's going to meet her brother on this holiday - I told him it was disrespectful to meet her family while still married with a child.
He said he was glad I told him what I was thinking and asked me how our son was. I told him he was fine. Which he is, strictly speaking - just fine. WH could tell from my tone S3 is not totally fine (he isn't). He pressed me and I told him the truth - he's upset his daddy isn't around. Yesterday night at bedtime we were saying our prayers and S3, for the first time ever, piped up and said "Bring my daddy home." It destroyed me. I held it together until I thought he was asleep, then knelt by his bed to pray and just broke down. S3 wasn't as asleep as I thought he was and he woke up and asked me why I was crying, so I had to climb back into bed and fake it until he fell asleep again.
I am more angry and hurt by what WH is doing to our child, our little family, more than what he's doing to me. I know he's angry with me, and rightly so, holding my hands up here - of Gottman's Four Horseman, I owned three full on (he had the fourth) - but he's punishing our child as well. And at mediation, I have to watch him blather on about what's best for our son. Yes, what's best for him, after you've narrowed the field of options by doing what's best for you first.
I said goodbye and cut him off while he was going on about not realising how I felt. Well, duhh... He then sent me a message saying "That was hard to hear but thanks for telling me." Not sure if he meant the disrespect thing or our son praying for him to come home, but it doesn't really matter. He's still going to do whatever he wants.
Looking back at what I've written I can see how foolish I am being - everything he's said is all lies.
Once when I was pressuring him about what the OW thought was going on, he snapped and told me "I have a knack of knowing what people want to hear. So I give it to them. In a way, I prey on it." Those last words, "prey on it", are ad verbatim, 100% his. I remember being really shocked. Married for 13 years and this was the first time I'd seen the mask slip. It was too much to handle so I let it go, didn't look at this unmasked face. I was at the time desperate to save the marriage.
When I look at him I see the sweet loving boy I married 13 years ago. I need to remember that's just the outside. The packaging hides something much different.
Looking back at what I've written I can see how foolish I am being - everything he's said is all lies.
Once when I was pressuring him about what the OW thought was going on, he snapped and told me "I have a knack of knowing what people want to hear. So I give it to them. In a way, I prey on it." Those last words, "prey on it", are ad verbatim, 100% his. I remember being really shocked. Married for 13 years and this was the first time I'd seen the mask slip. It was too much to handle so I let it go, didn't look at this unmasked face. I was at the time desperate to save the marriage.
When I look at him I see the sweet loving boy I married 13 years ago. I need to remember that's just the outside. The packaging hides something much different.
I'm so sorry, 2016.
It's often during these times that the true colors come out. I'm right there with you. My ex's colors came out at the craziest of times. We all have done things trying to save our marriages that we thought made us look foolish. In reality, we didn't look foolish although its easier to say we did. We all fought to keep and hold onto the dream we had. We all strangled that butterfly in hopes of getting it to stay.
You are doing much better than I was at your stage. 16, this is your time to walk your road. You'll find the clouds will start to part and the sun will shine - and that your road is paved with gold. However, only you can own it. So own it.
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