Hi All. I need advice.
Previous threads if you're interested in the backstory so far:
1.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2714296&page=12.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2717903&page=1 3.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2719406&page=1In a nutshell. W agreed to end her EA/PA and break contact with OM back in June. In addition to the normal blocking of numbers and email addresses on her devices, we agreed to put a block on his number through our phone service.
Couple weeks ago I found txt msgs from the OM on her phone. She claims she unblocked him in September. This led to me agreeing to our current in-house separation.
Since late October and up until yesterday there have been a number of calls to a brand new number. Proabaly around 10-12 and most are in the 20-30 minute range in length.
My suspicion is that either 1) The original OM got a new cell number so they could talk again or 2) There's a new OM.
She has denied both of these things in MC. Claims she only txt'd the OM on his birthday and is not "seeing" him. Also denies being in a relationship with a new person. We also discussed that we would not date during our separation.
Should I confront her on this phone number? I'm trying to detach but feel like I also need to hold her accountable for her honesty since that is the thing I've asked her to work on.
I think I answered my own question with the help of a comment by Sandi2 on another thread:
You can dictate, discuss, and put your foot down about the guidelines in the S, but unless there is a legal agreement that covers it..........you are wasting your breath. She is going to date and sleep with OM. It makes no difference what ground rules you give, she is going to do whatever she wants.
Chris I'm sorry you are going thru all of this. I'm not sure what to tell you here. The thing is if you confront her she will most likely lie if it's OM or OM2. Even if she says it is what are you prepared to do about it. I know you are in MC but do you feel she is into it 100%? If not then you are most likely wasting your time and maybe making matters worse. She has already contacted OM at least once after saying she would cut off contact(my W did the same). You are going to have to figure out what you are willing to do if you confront her. Most likely it won't matter and she will do whatever she wants anyway. It's time to take the focus off of her and her wayward behavior and focus on your health and happiness.
This crap is hard. I know you can work through it. We can both do this together with the help of all our friends here. Please just take care of you and your kids. I hate to say it but it will probably get worse before it gets better, but it will get better no matter what if you take care of you.
Man that's tough, Chris73. Continuing evidence and continued lying is a tough, tough thing to go through. I know, because I waded through enough of that crap to last a lifetime.
Should I confront her on this phone number?
There are websites where you can find the owner of the number...just saying. There is a certain "white" one that allows you to sign up for free and will give the name of the cell holder, unless it is a burner phone - which are mostly tracphones...
Try to find that first before confronting.
I hate to say it but it will probably get worse before it gets better, but it will get better no matter what if you take care of you.
Well, well said. Unfortunately, the worst hasn't even begun to make an appearance. But it will get better.
I've tried to spy dial the number. On some sites it turns up as a termite control business. On others it turns up as an number associated with the rental office of an apartment complex near us (but not the main number). At first I thought she was researching a place for one of us to move to. But she's never mentioned it and there are too many calls and they all last way too long for it to be a business discussion. So I have to assume it's a recycled cell number.
I've tried to spy dial the number. On some sites it turns up as a termite control business. On others it turns up as an number associated with the rental office of an apartment complex near us (but not the main number). At first I thought she was researching a place for one of us to move to. But she's never mentioned it and there are too many calls and they all last way too long for it to be a business discussion. So I have to assume it's a recycled cell number.
Recycled seems right. Some may disagree with what I'm about to say, but I would call it to see. Not from your phone, of course.
To continue - I did that to make sure the numbers I found were, in fact, his. Which they were.
Well it really seems obvious that this is a burner phone that the OM purchased so they could talk, since his regular number is blocked. I called the number from a pay phone. No answer. Generic voicemail telling me that the mailbox is full. Meanwhile my wife has called this number a few times in the past 2 days and racked up 20-40 mins per call. The only way I can confirm is to call the number from her phone. But she never puts it down and I don't know the passcode.
So I'm not sure what my next move it. Right now I'm angry and I want to confront her. But I will need to do it without anger. If she admits that the number is his and that the A is still going on, I feel like I will probably tell her that I'm done and that she should move out. And she will refuse.
My next move after that would be to consult with a lawyer.
On the other hand. I could use this opportunity to detach more and just leave the whole thing alone. But if the A really is happening even after she pledged honesty in our last MC session, I'm being made a fool of.
Well it really seems obvious that this is a burner phone that the OM purchased so they could talk, since his regular number is blocked. I called the number from a pay phone. No answer. Generic voicemail telling me that the mailbox is full. Meanwhile my wife has called this number a few times in the past 2 days and racked up 20-40 mins per call. The only way I can confirm is to call the number from her phone. But she never puts it down and I don't know the passcode
I have no doubt its his phone. When I tried the lookup on mine it just said tracphone user. Confronting her on this is difficult with solid proof because she can and will deny, and they will go further down that rabbit hole.
Solid proof is what you need. Some slip up, some don't. Mine did which allowed our child to break it open. And did it ever. The icing was the OM's wife calling me.
Some get a PI. Conversations can be recorded but are only legal and admissible if you are part of it in some form, I do believe. There was another thread on here way back when I was in the suspicion phase to where someone advised getting a voice-activated recorder and placing it in the ex's car. **I am not giving official advice and saying do it** That kind of thing cant be used, but it can give piece of mind. A friend did that to his wife and discovered a meeting place/time...to which he got there early and had a camera...instant proof. He couldn't use the recording but the pictures were all he needed.
Regardless, you need to know. Period. And you can't count on her being honest. Mine swore up and down during our MCing that she wasn't having an affair when the whole time she was screwing the OM. Don't believe a word.
Detach for yourself, but don't leave it alone. If she is, then you will need it all.
Sorry for your misery. Many of us have lived through this or are still living in it. It doesn't hurt to talk to a lawyer so you are informed...
So I decided to put on my big boy pants and call the number from our lan line. Our phone is in my wife's name so I thought that might give him enough inventive to answer. And he did. AND it's not the OM it's a new OM! The listing for a termite specialist wasn't incorrect. But why would she call a termite specialist 15 times in the past 2 months for 30 minutes at a time, right? So I assume he's probably married and gave my W he work cell number so they could talk freely.
Well, regardless as to whether or not confronting was a good idea, I just did it. I had enough evidence to call her out and she didn't deny it. Swears they're just friends, but even if she's not lying it's an EA for sure.
Told her that I think she should move out and of course she refused. So I told her I would contact a lawyer. Merry Effing Xmas!
Aw man Chris my heart hurts for you. I'm not sure what to say but I will be thinking about you today. Keep your head up and remember she is the broken one and you can't fix her.
Thanks man. Actually she eventually admitted to kissing him. I remember her going out to a Halloween party with her friends. She came home very late and drunk (they used Uber). She was very amorus towards me and it was actually the last time we had any sexual contact. The calls started in late October so I'm starting to put the pieces together.
So I decided to put on my big boy pants and call the number from our lan line. Our phone is in my wife's name so I thought that might give him enough inventive to answer. And he did. AND it's not the OM it's a new OM! The listing for a termite specialist wasn't incorrect. But why would she call a termite specialist 15 times in the past 2 months for 30 minutes at a time, right? So I assume he's probably married and gave my W he work cell number so they could talk freely.
Good for you. I'm sorry that you had to go through this, my friend. There isn't anything that I or anyone else can say to make it easier except that we are here. It's been almost a year since the ex's affair broke, and even though we are divorced I still can't get past it in many ways...to me, that was the biggest kick in the gut she could do - and she knew it.
Well, now you know. The question is, how are you going to proceed?
Well, now you know. The question is, how are you going to proceed?
I will keep pushing for her to move out. She is very much opposed to this idea because she feels like she would be abandoning her kids. This is exacerbated by the fact that she has unresolved issues of abandonment from her childhood that she never worked out with her mom (who died 3 years ago).
So I told her that if she won't move out, I will contact a lawyer and file. Which means that we'll need to sell our house, uproot the kids and go to court to determine custody.
She's so much in the fog right now that she doesn't see that this alternative is so much more traumatic for all of us than her just moving out. This marriage is still salvageable, but she has to do the work now. She could rent a place nearby and see the kids whenever she wanted to.
I really don't have much hope at this point. I took my ring off today. It feels strange. I know that I will be horribly sad once my adrenaline wears off, but for now I feel like a weight has lifted off my shoulders.
It may be good to add that as long as she is contact with the OM, then not to bother you with anything outside of the kids as she is disrespecting both you and the family.
I really don't have much hope at this point. I took my ring off today. It feels strange. I know that I will be horribly sad once my adrenaline wears off, but for now I feel like a weight has lifted off my shoulders.
I know the feeling. I remember the feeling when I took mine off, too. Strange and heartbreaking at the same time. I think you did the right things, as hard as it was. We are here for you, brother.
Thanks! I mean, I could easily go into my cell carrier website and block his number. I've already blocked OM1's number. But that's kind of like pursuing right? If I'm detached she can call whoever she wants. But like you said, unless she decides to end contact with OM2, no contact with me unless it's about the kids.
Oh Chris, I'm so sorry, brother. My heart hurts for you. As much as it hurts at least you know for sure now. I think contacting a L isn't a bad idea at all so you know your rights and what to expect. Again, I'm so very sorry and my thoughts and prayers are with you and the kids.
Thank you all for the kind words. I suppose the detaching has worked a bit. 6 months ago when I found out about OM1 I was a wreck. I did everything wrong. I gave her all the power. This time feels different. I still love her with all my heart and want us to reconcile, but I can't live with this alien anymore. And I won't put up with her disrespect.
Frankly, I'm so glad that this happened last night. I have 2 GAL activities planned for tonight and tomorrow and having all of these suspicions stuck in my head would distract me from having a good time.
I have IC tomorrow, hopefully I can get some perspective.
I think contacting a L isn't a bad idea at all so you know your rights and what to expect.
YES.
Talk to a lawyer either way.
Usually, the consult is free, and you should be able to gain a LOT of knowledge.
By all means, contact a lawyer. And...the lawyer's you consult with can't be used by her. Some have even gone as far as consulting with all the best ones.
I still love her with all my heart and want us to reconcile, but I can't live with this alien anymore. And I won't put up with her disrespect.
That is a healthy attitude, as hard as it is. Use the time wisely to better yourself. It's all about you now. She's on her own path.
Ok, more advice needed. (What a day this has been!)
So I went in and changed the pwd for the website of our cell carrier. My reasoning was 1) That she would rush in before me and change it first so that I could no longer monitor her phone calls and/or 2) That she might try to delete/remove calls in the log. I'm sure if it ever came down to it legally I could request them from the carrier, but just in case...
Once I changed the pwd, she got a txt on her phone saying that the pwd had been changed and then asked me if I was going to share the new pwd with her.
My response was:
"The trust issues that I have with you are preventing me from giving it to you. If you need to make a change to your account or look something up I can do that for you."
Good? No good?
That's pretty controlling and isn't going to solve anything.
She can very easily go out and get her own phone if she doesn't want you seeing it.
Transparency needs to be something she agrees to.
Ok, more advice needed. (What a day this has been!)
So I went in and changed the pwd for the website of our cell carrier. My reasoning was 1) That she would rush in before me and change it first so that I could no longer monitor her phone calls and/or 2) That she might try to delete/remove calls in the log. I'm sure if it ever came down to it legally I could request them from the carrier, but just in case...
Once I changed the pwd, she got a txt on her phone saying that the pwd had been changed and then asked me if I was going to share the new pwd with her.
My response was:
"The trust issues that I have with you are preventing me from giving it to you. If you need to make a change to your account or look something up I can do that for you."
Good? No good?
Way too controlling. If it's a joint account, you both should have the password.
As sad as it is, she obviously is stuck in her little fantasy world. You can't control her or make her stop contacting the OM. Everything you do now has to be for you and your kids. You need to set boundaries for you. The things you do now have to be for you not to influence her decision making. Right now she doesn't care what you do or think so you have to do whatever you can in your power to protect you and your children. This is not going to get any easier but self focus is what needs to be your priority right now.
Hang in there bro there are better days ahead.
Thanks Ginger. I think you're right. My anger and pride are getting in the way here.
So I went in and changed the pwd for the website of our cell carrier. My reasoning was 1) That she would rush in before me and change it first so that I could no longer monitor her phone calls and/or 2) That she might try to delete/remove calls in the log. I'm sure if it ever came down to it legally I could request them from the carrier, but just in case...
While the reasoning behind it was sound, it wasn't a good move. Is this a joint account?
Yeah, joint account. You guys were all correct about it being an issue of controlling. I sent her the new pwd. I also unblocked OM1. I mean, if I'm not going to be controlling I might as well.
Not even sure if it makes a difference to check the call logs anymore. Not unless she commits to reconciling. It only makes me more nuts.
Honestly, I would remove her phone from your account. You are basically paying for her to be able to contact OM. If she wants to contact OM, make her do it on her own dime. I'd cancel her phone from your account.
Took back the MBR last night. I had been giving the couch a try for a few nights. (Frankly it's more fun on the couch with access to the TV, computer and video games!) But I've been reading more of Sandi's posts and I know that I have to assert my dominance. Plus, the couch is kind of like a punishment right? So why should I sleep there. She's the cheater/liar, not me. And I know that being detached means that I don't kick her out of the bed. If she wants to sleep elsewhere, that's her choice. Last night she was already asleep when I came to bed and didn't leave. We'all see what happens tonight...
Took back the MBR last night. I had been giving the couch a try for a few nights. (Frankly it's more fun on the couch with access to the TV, computer and video games!) But I've been reading more of Sandi's posts and I know that I have to assert my dominance. Plus, the couch is kind of like a punishment right? So why should I sleep there. She's the cheater/liar, not me. And I know that being detached means that I don't kick her out of the bed. If she wants to sleep elsewhere, that's her choice. Last night she was already asleep when I came to bed and didn't leave. We'all see what happens tonight...
Good for you. She left the marital bed when she chose to leave the marriage. Mine left the bed not long after BD. You did the right thing, my friend.
Was the account opened after the marriage or was it either yours or hers before the marriage? I'm not sure, but I don't think you can force her off of your account if it was created after. You can suggest but if she says no, then until assets are divided in court I don't think there is a lot you can do, unless you hand it all over to her and open up your own. Others may know more, though.
Nice job going back to the MBR Chris. There is no way you should be sleeping on the couch. Sooner or later she will probably be uncomfortable sleeping in the same bed with you. She will most likely head for the couch or look at other options. My W took over my S7 bedroom and made him share with S10. W would get so mad at them when they would yell at her "you should be sleeping with dad." Unfortunately even you kids telling you like it is can't penetrate the fog they are in.
If we are talking about the cell phone account, you can get a form from the carrier for "change of financial responsibility." If she won't remove the phone and put it on her own, new account, then I would just turn the phone off. I would NOT be paying for the device and service she is using to contact OM.
Have you opened your own, new bank account? If not, you should and start putting your money there. I would separate finances and tell her she has to pay her half on her own.
Have you opened your own, new bank account? If not, you should and start putting your money there
While I like these ideas, the money he puts into there is still considered marital property. As long as he tells her he is doing it, its all good - that can keep her from cleaning the joint account out. However, if he does it without her knowledge and moves money from the current account into a private one, that could look bad even if it isn't.
My ex "hid" money in an account that she wasn't aware I was still part of (I was added on as co-owner after we got married. I talked to my lawyer and he said as long as my name is on the account I can use it...so I did for food and gas when I was laid off from my job as she wasn't contributing anything towards the kids)...since I was co-owner, I set up the alerts for deposits/withdrawals/everything - she had no idea because it was on my side. So, I found out she was hiding money. My lawyer loved that.
Allow me to add on - ANY money he puts in that account will be divided in the divorce.
Thanks all. I kinda do like the idea of separating our cell services. Most of her WW activities are conducted there. Plus she uses it for business so technically it should be separate from our family account. I will ponder this.
While everything is considered joint property until a D is final, I wouldn't think there would be any issue with starting to put your own paycheck in a separate account and I wouldn't have any problem with taking half of anything that is in a joint account. As long as you don't take more than 50%, there shouldn't be any issue long term. Of course, you should get the advice of a lawyer. When I consulted with an attorney (after discovering the A but before filing for D), I was told that I should open a new account and I did just that.
While everything is considered joint property until a D is final, I wouldn't think there would be any issue with starting to put your own paycheck in a separate account and I wouldn't have any problem with taking half of anything that is in a joint account. As long as you don't take more than 50%, there shouldn't be any issue long term. Of course, you should get the advice of a lawyer. When I consulted with an attorney (after discovering the A but before filing for D), I was told that I should open a new account and I did just that.
Our states must be different, as mine told me that any money in checking/savings/ira/etc., is considered marital property as long as it was deposited DURING the marriage. While you may do that, I would be willing to bet that if she were nasty enough, she could get half.
With a separate account with your paycheck you have control on how it's spent regardless if it is divided at D. This is better than having no control and let the W spend away reckless, or worse.
I agree with trying to have some control over the account. You might look at putting a freeze on the current accounts? If you do this for both of you it shouldn't be an issue??
I agree with trying to have some control over the account. You might look at putting a freeze on the current accounts? If you do this for both of you it shouldn't be an issue??
The flip side to that is that he can't freeze and therefore control what is rightfully hers if she is on those current accounts.
Every state is different but I'm not saying she isn't entitled to half. She is. I'm just saying that you should protect yourself. Cancel or get her off any joint credit cards so she doesn't run up any debt (which you would be liable for half of). Put your paycheck in your own account and tell her she is now responsible for half of the household bills. Follow the advice of your attorney and consider getting a consultation from more than one attorney.
If she opens another credit card, he would still be liable for half her debts, even if he is not on the account.
Came home last night after an amazing evening of GAL. W left my pillows on the couch indicating that that's where I was to sleep. I brought them back upstairs to my bed and got in. She said, "hey". I said "hey what?" She said, "ugh, eff you" and stormed out to sleep on the couch.
This morning she left early for work and the sent me a txt:
"I would like to take some time to talk soon when you are not so angry with me. Let me know if and when you would be willing."
OK
It's your MBR if she wants out she gets the couch.
WW The anger seems to be yours, I am fine and chilled, in fact last night I had a great evening and was mellow. If you want one of us not sleeping in the MBR that should be you, you are the one with the A. This is my home.
If you wish to discuss how your move from the MBR can be achieved then please let me have your suggestion first.
Now Chris, keep your buttons out of pressing point and be prepared to record any interaction to protect you. I suggest any 'talk' is on neutral territory without alcohol and after your boundary is laid down.
Text is fine as a response and you can have a copy.
Keep and document.
Just saying, get a recorder app on your phone.
V
Oh and by the way Chris
Mastery of boundary enforcement last night.
Tough stuff after a great night out
V
I txt'd back the times when I'm available to talk and that I'm not angry with her.
We've agreed to sit down and talk tomorrow morning before church.
STRONG work Chris! Excellent DB on your part.
Good job!
How are things today?
W has been at work all day and then (surprise!) going out with friends after work. So it's a double edged sword for me. Plenty of time to GAL and enjoy my kids, but my mind easily wanders and keep wondering how much worse this can get. I guess I'll find out tomorrow...