Married my college sweetheart in 1996. We were committed Christians and our first loves. Over the next fifteen years, we had a harmonious relationship, five kids and many, many good times. I worked 12 hours a day and my wife was a stay at home mom. In 2011, she started changing: focused on improving her diet, losing weight, exercising, looking sexy, embracing other religious beliefs, getting new friends, starting her own business.
In September, bomb drop 1 was I don't want to be married any more
In October, bomb drop 2 was I love you and another man (22 year old employee of hers, 20 years her junior)
In November, she went to see a lawyer to discuss divorce, wants to file after Christmas
Some messages from my wife:
I love you; we are soul mates; we will always be connected
We have to get divorced for our relationship to grow
I love you and want to continue dating you and having sex after we get divorced
I can't pursue a PA with the OM while I am still married to you
I am willing to risk everything in order to pursue the OM even if it doesn't work out or will live the rest of my life with regret and what ifs
The kids will be happier if I am happier
I want you to move out but want you to spend time the same amount of time with me and the kids every day (eat dinner with us, put the kids to bed, etc.)
I like the changes you have made, but it's too little, too late
This isn't about you; this is about me
I read DR and had my first coaching session last week. There is a lot more to the story of course, but will leave it here for now.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Hey Gordie!
Sorry you are here, my friend. It's a very tough place to be, but you are in great hands with those around here!
In 2011, she started changing: focused on improving her diet, losing weight, exercising, looking sexy, embracing other religious beliefs, getting new friends, starting her own business.
There are all sorts of flags all over this one, I'm sorry to say. I would be willing to say something started around that time.
The messages from her are odd, to say the least. Seems that she definitely wants that cake. Don't move out, though. She is the one who broke the vows and left the marriage - let her leave the house...but whose name is it under?
All of her messages you wrote are classic. We've all seen them before in one form or another. Some are designed to keep you dangling (soul mates??? having sex after divorced???) or maybe just trying to ease your pain.
This isn't about you; this is about me
Probably the only truthful statement of them all.
Jeep,
Thank you. I am definitely not moving out until we actually get divorced or legally separated. The limbo we are in now is surreal. The bad is she has re written our history and blames me for everything (including her EA). The good is she has opened up to me and told me more about herself than she has in years. When she gets really honest, she gets angry and then we make up. What doesn't change is her determination to get divorced. She says she feels tethered and nothing (including me) will stop her from living her dream life.
It sounds like she wants a polyamorous relationship. Has she used that term with you?
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
The bad is she has re written our history and blames me for everything (including her EA).
All too familiar, sir. My ex did the same exact thing - blamed the EA/PA on me.
What doesn't change is her determination to get divorced. She says she feels tethered and nothing (including me) will stop her from living her dream life
I hit submit by accident, haha.
Her tethered and dream life statement suggest she is still in the affair or on to a new one.
Rose,
I thought that is what she wanted too so I asked her. She said no. She wants us to grow even closer together and for me to support her financially, emotionally and sexually. She thinks the construct of marriage has poisoned our relationship into pre defined roles, thus her idea that we have to get divorced for it to get better. Why did she have to limit her personal growth and be responsible for home and children while I got to have a career?
Jeep,
Yes she met the OM in 2012 and somewhere along the line it crossed over from friends to EA in her mind. OM has been with his girlfriend for three years. My wife says she hasn't told the OM how she really feels, so not sure if he feels the same way.
Gordie,
Sorry you are here. My XW made many similar statements as your W had made in the texts. Stay calm and focused on you and your kids. Do not let your emotions get the best of you as they may play a negative role instead of a positive one. Cake eating is ok as long as you can live with it. If you cannot, set your boundaries.
Like you I have 5 kids, it's a lot to handle. I am curious to hear the answer to Rose's question. I am sure that would be a very difficult and heavy conversation to have with your W.
I have my thoughts and opinion on it which I will hold for later.
Just know there are many good people here to support you in your efforts to save you and/or your M.
Your W has all the irrational feelings and expressions of a wayward wife. You will not be able to reason with the type of mindset she has currently. You expressing words of logic is a waste of time and energy. You will need to approach this situation in a different way.
I love you; we are soul mates; we will always be connected
This is the twisted mindset of a wayward wife, and she takes for granted that you are happy to be fed whatever crumbs she throws your way.
The first thing you need to do is start behaving like a man who will not even consider her left-overs. You will not hang around and wait for her while she has an affair with another man. She should not believe you are the type who would happily take whatever she offered you while having a third person in the marriage. Unless you are fine with an open M, my advice to put forth a message that tells her that lifestyle doesn't work for you. You put forth that message by your actions and behavior. No preaching or relationship talks, b/c it does not work.
We have to get divorced for our relationship to grow
The minute she catered to her feelings for OM, she pretty much killed the MR. So, she needs the message that as long as there is a third party, there is no relationship with you, period. No type of relationship.
I love you and want to continue dating you and having sex after we get divorced
If it something you can control, (like whether or not you will date her after divorce), learn to say, "That's not going to happen".
I can't pursue a PA with the OM while I am still married to you.
I am willing to risk everything in order to pursue the OM even if it doesn't work out or will live the rest of my life with regret and what ifs
Then she has already made her choice. Now, she should experience the consequences that come from extramarital affairs and divorce. What she doesn't get to experience is having you and the OM. She should not experience all the benefits of your MR, without the fedelity that goes with it. The WW wants the best of both worlds. They have to see it doesn't work that way.
The kids will be happier if I am happier
That is your WW trying to convince you everything will be honky-dory for everybody. Just one big happy family......with the addition of OM, of course. She will justify her selfish actions all the time.
I want you to move out but want you to spend time the same amount of time with me and the kids every day (eat dinner with us, put the kids to bed, etc.)
No, b/c that's ^^^^ called marriage and family. She doesn't get it along with getting a life with OM. And besides, she is extremely arrogant to presume you will be the one moving out. Don't you think? Do not leave the marital bedroom, or your home. You are not the unfaithful spouse, and should remain in the bedroom and the home that represents your position.
I like the changes you have made, but it's too little, too late
This isn't about you; this is about me
Oh brother, did she say a mouthful. In her mind, everything is about her. Her selfishiness motivates her every action. Some way or somehow, she looks to see how much she benefits in every action.
By now, you may think I am pro-divorce. On the contrary, I am just not pro-wayward wives. This situation calls for a H who has a lot of inner strength. It is good you have spiritual beliefs, standards and value. Your W has compromised everything she stood for, to pursue this adulterous affair with another man. It is not true love, but she won't believe it right now. Her head is full of complete fantasy. Until the fantasy crumbles, your W will not let go of her selfish desires.
There is so much I want to tell you, but I can't do it one post. I tried to use the quotes above to show you a tiny glimpse of the twisted thinking of a WW. What she says is not true. In fact, she will not speak truth, so do not accept it as such. Just b/c she has said it, does not make it fact.
You are the man of your house. You are the leader, protector, and provider. Your children will watch daddy during this terrible ordeal......and they will learn how a man deals with a WW. Be sure you do not compromise your integrity to accommodate your WW. Conduct yourself with honor, and stand firmly on your principles.
Your M can be saved, in spite of this horrible behavior by your W. I seriously doubt it will happen swiftly, b/c I think you will be like most H's who come here seeking a one time wonder that fixes what it is broken......but are too afraid to do anything different from your usual interactions with the W. You will have to get to the place where you are willing to do the really tough stuff. The M that faces the ugliness of adultery can have a successful outcome, but it is not an easy road, especially if you tend to be an easy-going soft-hearted guy.
You will find lots of support on the board. I hope you will post every chance you get. Tell us about yourself and more about the marital history. Anything that stands out in previous times?
Sandi,
Thank you for your advice. I am a nice, soft hearted guy so the tough love will be very hard for me. Whenever I bring up the tough realities, she rages. I am having another coaching session tomorrow. Last week, my coach thought it was too early for the tough stuff and the LRT, but that we should keep fostering the dialogue and connection.
Whenever I bring up the tough realities, she rages. I am having another coaching session tomorrow.
She does that because she knows you will back down, am I right?
You told the coach she is having an affair and has asked for a divorce, right?
Sandi,
Yes. I told the coach about the OM and the admitted EA and asking for a divorce.
Jeep,
Yes, when she rages I back down from the argument. I'm not a yeller. I de escalate, validate her feelings, acknowledge actual wrongdoing on my part when warranted, or walk away. However, I haven't actually done anything she has asked me to do re the divorce: move out, prepare the finances, etc. This has frustrated her, but I have told her if she wants a divorce, then she has to do the work and that I'm not moving out until it actually happens. We still sleep in the the same bed and have marital relations. I know that sounds weird, but on a day to day basis, we are still friendly, we help one another, and talk/text frequently, usually about the kids or business (though we don't talk about R, M, D or OM unless she brings them up).
Sandi,
Does it matter that this is a one sided EA right now? The OM is twenty years younger and has been dating the same girl for three years. My W has not yet shared her intentions with the OM. She thinks the feelings are reciprocal, but she honestly doesn't know. She feels she can't openly approach the OM while she is still married. Or that's what she has told me. OM works for her so they spend time together every day.
He works for her? Not with her, but for her?
A relationship between them would get her fired at every company I've worked for.
Not to mention opening her up for a sexual harassment lawsuit.
People do crazy things.
I just want to be clear on something first. She met OM, who is now 22, in 2012, so she was 18 when she met him?
OM doesn't even know. he probably thinks he is befriending an older woman/mother figure type and might be pretty freaked out when he finds out she has feelings for him and wants to pursue a physical R with him. I have a feeling he will no longer be an employee.
But she certainly has things she needs to work out. This reads serious MLC all over it.
We still sleep in the the same bed and have marital relations.
Wait, what? This needs to stop (sorry) as its giving her the cake, my friend.
Rose,
W owns her own business and OM yes, works for her.
Jeep,
Yes, your math is correct. He is young enough to be our son, a few years older than our oldest child. After the BD, she asked me if I thought he felt the same way and I said what you said (friend/authority figure).
Jeep,
I asked my coach that last week too and she thought sex was still helping at this stage. I'm confused on what is best at this stage. I'm confused about what stage I am in. I'm confused about what MLC / WW or EA strategies to employ which is why I am here and in coaching. Further, I need to be present for my five children, all of us under the same roof.
I asked my coach that last week too and she thought sex was still helping at this stage. I'm confused on what is best at this stage. I'm confused about what stage I am in. I'm confused about what MLC / WW or EA strategies to employ which is why I am here and in coaching. Further, I need to be present for my five children, all of us under the same roof.
That's where I tend to disagree with the advice. If the sex were helping, then why hasn't it? There has been a lot said in different threads about being a backup. Think back to before things were mentioned and the BD. Did you two have sex then? What I'm saying is that if she was formulating all that stuff and still having sex, then it's nothing more than an act from her. To what ends, only she knows...but I'd be willing to be that "plan b" has something to do with it.
You have the right frame of mind in being there for your children. Its hard enough as it is, and even worse when you are being sexed and believing that its helping when, in fact, it isn't.
Stay strong, my friend.
Jeep and Sandi
My coach has been trying to apply the principles to my situation. I specific, I am trying to do a 180 in my relationship where the key issue is detachment. Thus, more detachment isn't going to help. Key changes:
1. I didn't listen...now I am listening intently
2. I spent more time with the kids than her...now I spend more time with her
3. I didn't help W with her business enough...now I am very involved
4. I didn't initiate sex well...now I am letting her initiate
5. I was the strong and stable one...now I am sharing my own questions and uncertainties
She has responded positively to all of these changes, but may be too little, too late.
She has responded positively to all of these changes, but may be too little, too late.
Positive response is always good, its just to what degree. You are correct, it may or may not be too late. But the real reason for doing those things isn't for her, its for you. You never know what the future will bring, but you need to make it the best for you and the kids.
Did the coach talk about a possible MLC?
I try to show respect for the advice from MWD's coaches, and sometimes the newcomer will tell the coach more than he tells the board. MWD does not separate the wayward wife and the walkaway wife into two categories. I believe the WW has a mindset that is based on years of resentment and disrespect for her H, and she finally reaches a point of rebellion (on some level). IMHO, the H who has a wayward wife usually has to apply a tougher love approach, b/c of her contempt and disrespect. If she has no respect for him as her H, then he is not going to win her loving feelings.
As for a candidate for MLC, I don't know. Can you tell us more about her growing up years? Has she suffered any type of tragedy recently? Has she ever told you about a specific incident that happened, that was never dealt with properly or she could not accept, etc.?
Have either of you had a previous experience of inappropriate contact with another person?
How old was she when she started having the children? What are their ages now?
Does it matter that this is a one sided EA right now?
Let me turn this question around and ask you. Does it matter to you that your W is in love with a married man who is 20 yrs younger, and it's a one-sided affair? Of course it matters to you, and to be fair, I think you were indirectly asking if the DBing approach matters. I mostly stick to the threads that have wayward wives, b/c that is what I have studied the most....and personally experienced. I think it takes a tough love approach from the H. I cannot recall successful endings where the WW had a soft H who took abuse from her.
That's as honest as I can be, without arguing with the coach's advice. As long as a wayward benefits from her bad behavior, she will continue with the bad behavior. If she is currently getting everything from the MR that she had
before the EA, why would she quit her A? I don't mean you should punish her. You would need to stand up for yourself and stop allowing her to mistreat you. You would need to learn how to stop the disrespectful behavior under your roof. You would need to enforce boundaries, etc. If you will read the links Cadet provided, you will see some of these issues and what can be done.
The mindset of a WW is not pretty. If you continue to allow her to run over you, while you still sleep with her and basically cater to her.....there will be no real change in her heart, b/c she won't respect a man who takes cr@p from her.
Jeep,
Thanks. Yes, I want to do these things for me. I want to be a better listener, less selfish and more attentive to the needs of those around me, and a better lover.
We have a weekly date night which we have kept up even after BD. Last week, I stuck to the rules of not talking about R, M, D or OM. She told me afterwards that she very much enjoyed our time together and we have to stay connected after D. She said it is important for both of us and our children.
What do you think of that?
She told me afterwards that she very much enjoyed our time together and we have to stay connected after D. She said it is important for both of us and our children.
What do you think of that?
Honestly? Sounds just like something mine said. And at the time she said it, she was done and had more than moved on.
That is my fear. It is amazing how similar so many of these situations are. Thank you for shining honesty into my darkness.
That is my fear. It is amazing how similar so many of these situations are. Thank you for shining honesty into my darkness.
You know, we did the same date nights and all. Went out and all that jazz. I thought we were doing good...she was having fun, and all that. But that's just it - she viewed it as friends and not trying to further the relationship, or at least that's what I gathered, anything. But then again, she was sleeping with the OM at the same time. I was duped, big time.
Is it possible to be friends after divorce? She is asking me that. I don't know how to respond.
Is it possible to be friends after divorce? She is asking me that. I don't know how to respond.
That's the hardest question of all. Eventually, maybe. Mine asked the same thing. And that's all she wants...if you read into my thread, you'd know her background in relationships - I think she is better suited for friends than anything else.
The question is one that only you can answer. For me, knowing all that she did (and she did some bad, bad things) and the lies, and yet the love I have for her, my answer is no. At least not now. I tolerate her and talk - and we ONLY talk about the kids, when necessary. I have no desire to be buds, and I told her that. The rest resides on her shoulders.
[quote]But that's just it - she viewed it as friends and not trying to further the relationship, or at least that's what I gathered, anything. But then again, she was sleeping with the OM at the same time. I was duped, big time.
How do I know if dates and conversations are improving our relationship or if she views it as just friends? In my case, I am still sleeping with W and OM is still sleeping with his GF. And as you know, I don't know how OM feels about W.
Jeep--thank you for listening and replying!
Gordie--
4. I didn't initiate sex well...now I am letting her initiate
Is there a typo there? Seems like you didn't 180 on that one?
For what it's worth, I think your general tack is good, to keep doing all the positive things in your marriage.
You do have to think about what your boundaries are for her negative behaviors. For example, you are OK with her fantasizing about the 22 year old employee. But what if she acts upon it? Then are you OK with that? If not, then how will you react? What will be your consequence?
I also think that while you keep doing the positive things, you have to gently but firmly make it clear to her, that once you divorce all of that is going to go away: your emotional and physical relationship with her, financial support, shared time with kids, etc.
Your wife is in her mid-40's. It's a prime time for a mid-life crisis.
Other than the 180's, you didn't talk about what you're doing to examine yourself and become a more attractive partner....
How do I know if dates and conversations are improving our relationship or if she views it as just friends? In my case, I am still sleeping with W and OM is still sleeping with his GF. And as you know, I don't know how OM feels about W.
You don't. And now it isn't - know why? Because she is hung up on him. Sorry to be blunt, but that's what it is. As long as that is still happening, she won't have room for you.
You are most welcome, my friend!
You do have to think about what your boundaries are for her negative behaviors. For example, you are OK with her fantasizing about the 22 year old employee. But what if she acts upon it? Then are you OK with that? If not, then how will you react? What will be your consequence?
I also think that while you keep doing the positive things, you have to gently but firmly make it clear to her, that once you divorce all of that is going to go away: your emotional and physical relationship with her, financial support, shared time with kids, etc.
Your wife is in her mid-40's. It's a prime time for a mid-life crisis.
Other than the 180's, you didn't talk about what you're doing to examine yourself and become a more attractive partner....
Jeep,
You are on point...I haven't figured these things out. I need to think hard about them.
Re sex: I wasn't clear. In our relationship, I was almost always the one to initiate sex and there are some bad feelings about that. My experimental 180 was to find out if I stop all initiation and, lo and behold, she now initiates and it is much more mutually satisfying.
Gordie
I am assuming you are in the UK with that handle. If not just say V I am not UK.
I spotted your query on another thread.
Do not leave the MBR oR the MH. It will be tough to recover from that.
If WW is as she clearly is wayward then she should leave to pursue her dream of her OM. Cut her loose to pursue her dream of OM and reality will bite in due course.
Clearly she sees comfy cosy and warm cuddly life, protected by you. Hanging on to everything she has.
No, no, no WW, either you are my W or you aren't! Is my thinking.
Teenage style behaviour is inappropriate in front of your family and friends. Plus WW is setting herself up for a sexual harassment suit which could destroy her business. This is very serious stuff indeed.
I think you need L advice on this urgently, particularly if WW is going to blow up her business. Really this is urgent, plus sexual harassment can involve a criminal record plus losing a professional membership (such as medical, legal, accounting, nursing etc)
Incidentally I think this is likely a POM, a potential. Doesn't stop your WW being wayward, it her mindset that makes it so not whether reciprocation takes place.
I think there could be some serious potential issues in this.
V
Is it possible to be friends after divorce? She is asking me that. I don't know how to respond.
Hello Gordie,
This is a really good question!
You need to handle your answer very carefully and strategically.
You mentioned that you were working with a DB Coach. Would you like to schedule a session so that the two of you can discuss this in depth?
Please call me at 303-444-7004 and we can figure out the best time for the two of you to talk.
Regards,
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Vanilla,
Thank you. I am not in the UK. I have not moved out of the MBR. You brought up many good points:
1. We both agree this is inappropriate public behavior. This is why she has only told me and wants to D before pursuing the POM (like that abbreviation).
2. I think this will be bad for her reputation and business, but she disagrees and is not listening to me on this point.
3. Yes, I need to see a lawyer.
Thanks to you and Jeep for the tough love.
We all approach people's stories on this board from our own perspective.
Sandi has experience from the wayward wife perspective.
I have the experience of growing up in a religion that constrained women's roles and leaving that religion as a married woman with children.I've also watched quite a few others go through that transition as well.
From my perspective, there was a lot of important clues in your first post.
Married my college sweetheart in 1996. We were committed Christians and our first loves. Over the next fifteen years, we had a harmonious relationship, five kids and many, many good times. I worked 12 hours a day and my wife was a stay at home mom. In 2011, she started changing: focused on improving her diet, losing weight, exercising, looking sexy, embracing other religious beliefs, getting new friends, starting her own business.
You mentioned in a later post that she asked why you got to have a career and she got to stay home.
It's pretty easy to put these details together and create the story of a woman who was raised to believe that a woman's place was in the home, raising kids. Who never felt free to ask if that was really what she wanted for her life. Who married young and had five kids (in how many years?) with a husband who worked 12 hour days.
Then, 15 years into the marriage, she starts exercising, losing weight, starts a business--every indication that she is exploring who she is and spreading her wings into new ventures.
The fact that you say you've been married for 20 years and had 15 good years (the good years apparently ending right when she started changing) indicates to me that you didn't like her changes.
So she's learning about herself and feeling good about herself and doing new things and starting a business, and her husband disapproves, but there's this guy at work, part of the exciting and fulfilling part of her life . . .
She likes you, but she wants more out of life, and she doesn't feel like you are supportive of that.
I don't know how accurate this story is. I leave that to you to consider.
But if it rings true, I don't think addressing "respect" is the place to start.
I think you need to think about the last 5 years and ask if you showed your wife that your marriage could be a place where she was free to grow and change.
Questioning what one wants out of life, longing for a return to an earlier stage of life so one can experience all the things one missed by marrying young--these are very, very normal for people leaving strict religions with clearly defined gender roles.
And just to be clear--I think the EA with the subordinate is wrong on so many levels. It would be more moral for her to have a one-night stand with a guy at a bar than to pursue a romantic relationship with the POM. I am not in any way condoning that, and I'd consider consulting a lawyer about whether it makes sense to separate finances in case she approaches him and gets hit with a lawsuit.
Just my two cents. Take them if they resonate in some corner of your mind. Ignore them if they don't.
I don't know how a friend could betray you quite to the same degree, but I dont want any friend that would do that to me.
So she's learning about herself and feeling good about herself and doing new things and starting a business, and her husband disapproves, but there's this guy at work, part of the exciting and fulfilling part of her life . . .
She likes you, but she wants more out of life, and she doesn't feel like you are supportive of that.
I don't know how accurate this story is. I leave that to you to consider.
But if it rings true, I don't think addressing "respect" is the place to start.
I think you need to think about the last 5 years and ask if you showed your wife that your marriage could be a place where she was free to grow and change.
Questioning what one wants out of life, longing for a return to an earlier stage of life so one can experience all the things one missed by marrying young--these are very, very normal for people leaving strict religions with clearly defined gender roles..
Rose,
Thank you so much. Your post rings so true, I can't believe it. My W grew up in a very strict religious environment. I did not. I have made all of the wrongs you suggested. So my question from you and your perspective is: what should I do now? I feel you know what it would take to reach my w and I clearly do not. Please share more of your insight.
How do I demonstate that she is safe to grow and change in our M and that she doesn't need D and OM? I think that is one of if not the key issue.
Your wife probably felt that head-over-heels kind of feeling with her 22 year old employee, a wild infatuation that makes her heart flutter and head spin. Something she hasn't felt for a very long time. It made her feel alive and vibrant for the first time in a long time, which casts a dim shadow on all the years with you. It's a brain on drugs. It's a brain that feels a high, and wants to keep feeling high. And she feels that at age 42, she is still physically attractive and can be alluring to youthful men, but doesn't have much time left.
ForGump,
Yes, you are correct. She has used many of those exact words. POM makes her feel alive, awakened. POM makes her feel things she didn't know she could feel anymore.
Re sex: I wasn't clear. In our relationship, I was almost always the one to initiate sex and there are some bad feelings about that. My experimental 180 was to find out if I stop all initiation and, lo and behold, she now initiates and it is much more mutually satisfying.
Don't read anything into her initiating sex...women want it for personal satisfaction just as much as men. What her reason is - it could be fantasizing, a way to keep you on the string, or maybe she's just horny. Who knows but don't read into it.
How do I demonstate that she is safe to grow and change in our M and that she doesn't need D and OM? I think that is one of if not the key issue.
I only have time for a quick post, so apologies if this is disjointed.
First, I think you need someone IRL helping you through this. Someone who has more detailed knowledge than we will get on the board.
Is her change of religious beliefs causing tension in your marriage! Do you resent that she got in shape and started her business? You might need an IC to help you process any resentment or angst so that you can be supportive of her growth.
Keep doing the 180s and look for others.
Are you stuck in any ruts? Do you wear the same clothes, eat at the same restaurants, do the same entertainments? Try new things! When a spouse feels like you can't change, changing things unrelated to the main issue can contribute to the feeling of change and growth that they are seeking.
How is your appearance?
You mentioned that you don't initiate sex well. Could your sex life benefit from some new techniques?
I would not confront the issue with her directly. No one appreciated being told they don't really want what they want.
Instead, work on your issues that caused you to resent the changes she made 5 years ago, and foster a feeling of newness, change, and growth in yourself.
Hope some of this is helpful.
How do I demonstate that she is safe to grow and change in our M and that she doesn't need D and OM? I think that is one of if not the key issue.
You can't show her that she will be safe or whatever...and you can't tell her "look, I've done this and now you can be safe" or something to that affect, either. Never talk about your changes. The best way to show her is by working on yourself - becoming a stronger, safer person who, yes, loves her, but is not dependent on her. Show her the person you were when you were dating. Take care of yourself, because that is most important. And a confident, strong, and well-rounded person is much more attractive than a dependent one.
Rose,
Your advice is a treasure. I cannot thank you enough for opening my eyes and hitting me over the head.
1. I have and IC with whom I can talk about these issues IRL.
2. Yes, the change in religious beliefs has caused tensions. When she discusses them, I have learned not to comment or question, but to be curious. Yes, there is tension in the air when they are discussed.
3. Re: getting in shape and starting her business. Her complaints are that I wasn't a cheerleader for her and that in both instances I cared more about what all of this meant for our relationship and me than just being happy for her. I was anxious and concerned that she wanted to change her whole life and I should have been her biggest supporter. This is one of my biggest regrets and I have tried to do a 180 on this point, being much more enthusiastic, curious and actively involved in her day to day business (she has welcomed and appreciated this change).
4. Yes, I need to do more 180s and change/try new things. I am trying to figure out ways to surprise my wife (new haircut which she didn't like, have re engaged in some of my long lost artistic interests), but honestly haven't been too successful thus far. I need to try harder on this front. I am a regular gym guy who is in good shape and I still dress well (W still appreciates this about me, but she might like it if I was flashier, maybe I'll try that).
5. Yes, sex life needs to be refreshed and improved.
6. Re not confronting directly, should I acknowledge how I have failed on these issues and apologize? I think she would appreciate that.
7. The main issue from five years ago is that I was afraid of change. I didn't embrace it. I saw it as a rejection of the life we had built. I was happy with the status quo and she wanted change. Oh, how I wish I could turn back the clock and do things differently, but I can only change me now and in the future.
Rose--thank you!
Jeep,
You are so right. I can't talk this out. Yes, I need to demonstrate I am a safer, changed person--not tell her. Thank you.
180s of the mind:
Embrace change; reject the fear of change and the unknown
Be open to new totally new, unorthodox experiences, ideas, different ways of thinking and doing things
Be confident and optimistic; reject angst and pessimism (even in the face of D)
Be the life of the party
Feedback from W (summary):
I like the way you are acting now. If you had done this earlier on the first part of my journey, we wouldn't be getting a D. If the changes are real, you will support me post-D in the second part of my journey and our relationship will be better than it ever was in the past. I love you. I want you to keep loving me.
Feedback from W (summary):
I like the way you are acting now. If you had done this earlier on the first part of my journey, we wouldn't be getting a D. If the changes are real, you will support me post-D in the second part of my journey and our relationship will be better than it ever was in the past. I love you. I want you to keep loving me.
Yep, she's setting you up for cake eating.
I bumped into the POM at the gym this morning (we live in a small town)
POM: Are you and W coming to the gym Christmas party?
Me: I don't know. I'll talk to W.
POM: You guys should come! I'll be there with GF.
So does POM know or not?
Really? I thought this was progress.
Why do you think he knows?
Yes but not the seriousness.
I think he wants to show how close to his gf he is, and be very public about it.
There is only one way to find out isn't there?
V
Your wife is feeling "things she didn't know she could feel anymore," and, like Jeep said, you can't reason someone out of that state of mind. Their brain is on drugs (the euphoria of infatuation, a.k.a. limerence).
You can do a lot to show that you are a fun, exciting partner -- but you can't compete on the same level as the 22 year old employee. I think she has to decide for herself that you can't have a satisfying long-term relationship if you're just chasing intoxicating infatuations. She might realize that tomorrow, she might realize it three years from now, after her obsession with infatuation brings hollow disappointments.
I guess my point is ... you wrote, "Be the life of the party." Well, don't be a phony. Change, but be true to yourself. You can't be subservient to your W's midlife crisis.
Feedback from W (summary):
I like the way you are acting now. If you had done this earlier on the first part of my journey, we wouldn't be getting a D. If the changes are real, you will support me post-D in the second part of my journey and our relationship will be better than it ever was in the past. I love you. I want you to keep loving me.
Yep, she's setting you up for cake eating.
It's nonsense, rewriting history.
The wayward always has a choice in tackling their M.
W, this isn't going to happen, this happy ever after dream of yours. You are either my W or not. That would be my response.
You could try Really? Dream on, ain't happening.
Hugs
V
Yep, she's setting you up for cake eating.
I agree, but I'd add that she's not doing it in a calculating, rational way. She is delusional. Her brain is intoxicated from her infatuation with the 22 year old. At the right time (when? I don't know) I would make it clear to her that if the marriage were to end, you are not going to keep loving her like a wife, and that you will want to move on with your life.
About whether the 22 year old feller knows -- I bet you a dollar he knows your wife is infatuated with him to some degree, and he is trying to subtly let her know, and let you know, he's really not interested.
You could try Really? Dream on, ain't happening.
I like that.
Why do you think he knows?
Because she told him.
Yes but not the seriousness.
I think he wants to show how close to his gf he is, and be very public about it.
There is only one way to find out isn't there?
I'm not sure, but I think the gf thing is being flaunted to throw him - or anyone else- off the scent. She knows that the Gordie knows, so as when any time an affair is confronted without solid proof, they go underground. Hence the camouflage.
About whether the 22 year old feller knows -- I bet you a dollar he knows your wife is infatuated with him to some degree, and he is trying to subtly let her know, and let you know, he's really not interested.
Wow, that thought never dawned on me.
Gordie
Yes it is possible to be friends after D. I have colleagues and family members who have exes as friends. It isn't for me, an ex is an ex for a reason, but then I don't have children.
Actually that question is for the future and how can you commit now to how you feel some time forward.
I think no answer to this is possible, it's like do I look fat in this dress. No it's like in five years time will I look fat in this dress.
In my opinion too many variables.
So my thinking is to throw it back, "Why have you asked me this?"
Otherwise silence it's an R question.
V
At the right time (when? I don't know) I would make it clear to her that if the marriage were to end, you are not going to keep loving her like a wife, and that you will want to move on with your life.
You are right and I need to think about what I would say and how and when. We have the kids so we are going to be in each other's lives every day for a long time. I haven't given enough thought to what our post-D relationship will be. We do want to be good parents no matter what.
Yes but not the seriousness.
I think he wants to show how close to his gf he is, and be very public about it.
There is only one way to find out isn't there?
I'm not sure, but I think the gf thing is being flaunted to throw him - or anyone else- off the scent. She knows that the Gordie knows, so as when any time an affair is confronted without solid proof, they go underground. Hence the camouflage.
What's your evidence for this?
There doesn't seem to be any evidence that the 22-year-old POM has any interest in Gordie's wife.
ForGump--
You are right re be the life of the party. I don't want to be a phony. I was brainstorming things I could try and that would be a 180 for me.
What's your evidence for this?
There doesn't seem to be any evidence that the 22-year-old POM has any interest in Gordie's wife.
Showing a possible other side to things, ma'am. After all, do we have proof they aren't? Or do we just treat is as they aren't and go with it? Is it not possible that there COULD be something other than in her own mind? If that were case and the POM knew, he would shut that down fast, especially given the circumstances. Or is it possible, just possible, that there is something going on? After all, isn't one of the going things on here to never believe what they say as they lie?
You are right re be the life of the party. I don't want to be a phony. I was brainstorming things I could try and that would be a 180 for me.
Being yourself is the best, yet one of the hardest things, you can do given the circumstances.
Your wife is feeling "things she didn't know she could feel anymore," and, like Jeep said, you can't reason someone out of that state of mind. Their brain is on drugs (the euphoria of infatuation, a.k.a. limerence).
You can do a lot to show that you are a fun, exciting partner -- but you can't compete on the same level as the 22 year old employee. I think she has to decide for herself that you can't have a satisfying long-term relationship if you're just chasing intoxicating infatuations. She might realize that tomorrow, she might realize it three years from now, after her obsession with infatuation brings hollow disappointments.
I guess my point is ... you wrote, "Be the life of the party." Well, don't be a phony. Change, but be true to yourself. You can't be subservient to your W's midlife crisis.
I agree with this.
There is no guarantee that this will work out how you want, even if you do everything perfectly from here on out. The emotional charge of the EA is strong.
So make changes while staying true to yourself. Instead of saying you are going to be the life of the party, maybe say you are going to invite people over more often, or you are going to improve your small-talk skills. Be you, just give yourself a chance to expand beyond the boundaries you have drawn for yourself.
Gordie, we're tossing out advice to you over the Internet, w/o seeing the full picture. So I hope you take it for what it's worth.
The 22 year old: Try really hard to remember what you felt like when you were 22 years old. Remember what it felt like to have a girlfriend that age, to lust after other young women of that age. How much was a 40-something mother of five on your radar? If a 40-something mother-of-five came onto you, would you have jumped right into bed? Maybe. Yes, sure that kind of thing does happen, but what are the odds. The most likely thing is, you are shocked, embarrassed, and confused about what to do because the 40-something mother-of-five is your boss and you like your job and you need the money.
The other thing is, Gordie, if you really suspect some 22 year old punk is messing with your wife, what you gonna do? Are you gonna wring your hands and agonize over it in an Internet forum while it goes on day in and day out? Screw DB. Screw your wife's feelings. You've got feelings too. You've got your self-respect.
I'd talk to them. Not fly off the handle. Not throw out accusations. Ask. Don't spy. You deserve to know what the hell is up.
I am willing to bet you it's all in your wife's head (which is bad enough); and the 22 year old is just plain old uncomfortable and embarrassed about it. Stop all of this in the tracks, because, if nothing else, your wife is opening up her (both of your?) business to a serious lawsuit.
I think no answer to this is possible, it's like do I look fat in this dress. No it's like in five years time will I look fat in this dress.
In my opinion too many variables.
Vanilla, thank you. I think this answer is the right one for me. I can't project how I am going to feel in the future, no matter what my current intentions.
What's your evidence for this?
There doesn't seem to be any evidence that the 22-year-old POM has any interest in Gordie's wife.
Showing a possible other side to things, ma'am. After all, do we have proof they aren't? Or do we just treat is as they aren't and go with it? Is it not possible that there COULD be something other than in her own mind? If that were case and the POM knew, he would shut that down fast, especially given the circumstances. Or is it possible, just possible, that there is something going on? After all, isn't one of the going things on here to never believe what they say as they lie?
We say not to believe the wayward spouse.
This is a 22-year-old kid who WORKS FOR a woman in her 40s who is infatuated with him. How is he supposed to shut this down without quitting or risking his job?
I do feel like he should be given the benefit of the doubt until there is evidence that he is encouraging her attentions and not simply caught in a mess.
In my limited knowledge ... people who remain buddies after a divorce ... they kind of grew apart together. It's much less likely to happen when a spouse hurts the other spouse and leaves him/her.
I love my wife and I hate all that she is doing to me and my family. Can I remain friends after the divorce? Maybe. An astroid can strike the earth and we can all die tomorrow. Will I do what is reasonable to be a good co-parent to my kids? Yes. But I cannot be her emotional support, I cannot keep loving her after she leaves me. I certainly will not promise my W that after the divorce I will keep loving her. I can only promise to be a good co-parent, and that I will move on with my life the best I know how.
The 22 year old: Try really hard to remember what you felt like when you were 22 years old. Remember what it felt like to have a girlfriend that age, to lust after other young women of that age. How much was a 40-something mother of five on your radar? If a 40-something mother-of-five came onto you, would you have jumped right into bed? Maybe. Yes, sure that kind of thing does happen, but what are the odds. The most likely thing is, you are shocked, embarrassed, and confused about what to do because the 40-something mother-of-five is your boss and you like your job and you need the money.
Good post, Gump. I'm not embarrassed to say that at 22 there may/may not have been a 40+ or two. 22 yr olds are still primarily after one thing... Happens way more than one thinks. I do see your point and can agree with it.
He does deserve to know what's up, but he needs to tread very carefully.
ForGump,
You are so right. After the initial BD (how do I create a signature?), I suspected that an OM may be involved. At first W wouldn't answer me directly but after a few weeks confessed that she was in love with the POM. W says she hasn't told him how she feels and wants to get a D before doing so. W also says she doesn't know if POM feels the same way, but W thinks POM does.
I do feel like he should be given the benefit of the doubt until there is evidence that he is encouraging her attentions and not simply caught in a mess.
I can get behind that. Yes, maybe he should. But at that age, I did. More than once. Now, is this a career job? And is the young buck career minded and want to stay with the company? All relevant questions. And I may very well be wrong and will gladly admit it. But, I won't shut out the possibility of it not happening - because I've been there.
W also says she doesn't know if POM feels the same way, but W thinks POM does.
I'm sorry, but that statement suggests to me that something has or still is happening.
Hit reply too fast - another thing to think about. Unless she has issues and is making stuff totally up (that's a possibility, I know), then for her to say that she isn't sure he feels the same way (love) suggests that something had to happen. If she made it up out of thin air to make him jealous or the like, then that needs to be dealt with, too. But that statement just doesn't sit right.
22 yr olds are still primarily after one thing... Happens way more than one thinks.
I guess we're all different but at that age ... if I had a hot 22 year old girlfriend ... and other possibilities in terms of 20-something chicks ... and if I had a 42 year old MOTHER-OF-FIVE BOSS come on to me at work ... I would not be day dreaming about when I can get into a closet with her.
What I picture is: standing around a bon fire drinking beers with buddies and telling them about it and just laughing my head off about how ridiculous and pathetic the whole situation is, saying, "Oh man, that poor Gordie, I like the guy, the poor bastard...." But that's just me.
Don't get me wrong, I love my current age and I love getting old. I love my middle aged wife, with her middle aged body, her wrinkles, everything. But 22 was a long time ago and, back when I was 22, the 40's felt like the Pleistocene.
Oh, I agree. But 40+s can still be hot. Yeah, I'd rather have a 20 something back then, but I wouldn't (and didn't turn a 40+ or two down).
You've never hooked up with someone you never told anyone about? Never?
Was no daydreaming, just getting laid...
After a few weeks confessed that she was in love with the POM. ... W also says she doesn't know if POM feels the same way, but W thinks POM does.
Gordie. I lived this. Yes, I'm only one data point, so take that for what it's worth.
But I have no doubt this is ALL in your W's head. She's totally intoxicated.
But it doesn't change the fact that she is craving the intoxication. You can take away the 22 year old employee, but the need for the intoxication will be there.
Hit reply too fast - another thing to think about. Unless she has issues and is making stuff totally up (that's a possibility, I know), then for her to say that she isn't sure he feels the same way (love) suggests that something had to happen. If she made it up out of thin air to make him jealous or the like, then that needs to be dealt with, too. But that statement just doesn't sit right.
I think they have a friendly working relationship, and it has turned into something else for her. Her emotions are involved, but there is no reason his emotions (or hormones) have to be.
It is entirely possible for this to happen without the other person having done anything improper.
I feel like that about Liam........
No idea how he feels!
V
Yes but not the seriousness.
I think he wants to show how close to his gf he is, and be very public about it.
There is only one way to find out isn't there?
I'm not sure, but I think the gf thing is being flaunted to throw him - or anyone else- off the scent. She knows that the Gordie knows, so as when any time an affair is confronted without solid proof, they go underground. Hence the camouflage.
What's your evidence for this?
There doesn't seem to be any evidence that the 22-year-old POM has any interest in Gordie's wife.
Agreed. However it isn't if he is interested in a happy ever after, but if he knows that WW feels that way.
She told him I believe, either directly or indirectly.
V
Rose, Jeep, ForGump, Vanilla,
Thank you for your input. Does it change my DB strategy and tactics if:
1. It's all in W's head and POM doesn't know
2. It's all in W's head and POM doesn't feel the same way
3. POM knows of W's intentions but thinks of it as just sex, nothing serious
4. W and POM want to have a romance/marriage
5. This is more than a fantasy or EA, but already a PA
Gordie,
Overall the DB strategy might be the same regardless: detach, GAL, 180, etc. But... 2 things:
1) I think you have to ask yourself does it matter to YOU if your W has a one-way infatuation w/ a 22 year old vs. she is carrying on a physical affair. I think some spouses would say both are the same to him/her, while others feel he/she could tolerate an EA but not a PA. You tell us. Does it really feel the same to you if you knew your W was sleeping with someone, vs. only fantasizing about him? I know that for me, it doesn't feel the same at all, even if in my head I realize that an EA is very serious, very bad.
2) If your W is going through a mid-life crisis, that works pretty different than someone who might be categorized as a "walk away" or a "wayward." The distinctions are based on what are the driving forces in the spouse who is leaving the marriage. The forces that drive a MLC are not always the same as a WW or Wayward, and understanding what's really driving your W away from the marriage could help you deal with it better. Also, generally, I read that MLC lasts a very long time... years....
ForGump,
1. Thank you. W actually initiated a R talk last night. She re confirmed this was an EA and not a PA and that she is waiting to file for D in the new year before having a talk with the POM about her intentions.
2. I've been reflecting on Rose's comments about religion and gender roles and reading the MLC threads. I think I am in the middle of a multi year MLC. I should have known this already but didn't really start listening to my W until after the BD in September.
3. Some highlights from last night:
I want our relationship to be better post S or D
I don't know if I want S or D but we need to live separately
I don't know if I believe in M any more
One man cannot fulfill all of my needs (emotional, intellectual, physical)
You need to live very close by so you can see the kids every day
I love you and forgive you for everything in the past; do you believe that I forgive you but no longer want to be married to you?
I want you and the POM in my life
Hey Gordie.
I know you said you asked her about polyamory already and she said that's not what she wants, but what you reported from last night sure seems to line up wih polyamory.
You might find helpful resources if you search for when your spouse wants to try poly but you don't. (Or you might want to read up on poly to see if it could interest you. I don't want to assume.)
I think a situation in which one spouse wants to be poly and the other wants to be monogamous is harder in terms of reconciling the M than a situation in which both partners share a commitment to monogamy at least in theory.
It might be easier in terms of having a good relationship after D.
I recommend reading and working on yourself and not making any decisions yet. You are still learning.
Rose,
Your observations are spot on. We discussed poly back in October and she said no. But last night she seemed to have changed her mind. I think she doesn't like the poly terminology but her desires fit the idea. I have read some books on poly and don't know what I think about being in a poly relationship (and I said that last night) I take it as a good sign that:
1. She forgave me last night for past offenses (something previously only partly offered)
2. She was more open to sharing her thoughts and desires with me
Gordie
Remember the 100% of what they say
In this case believe nothing until you can prove it
Rationalising waywardness is gloop speak from scrambled egg brains.
It is likely different tomorrow.
And that includes the sapping 'I forgive you'. Which is ridiculous and entitled stuff.
Your WW is very definitely wayward in all of the circus you mention above. She isn't even covert about it so she is confident of your compliance. I think so.
As for sharing her thoughts and desires with you, it's hurtful and disrespectful to treat your H in this way.
To a large extent I am minded of MCS WW who chased after a guy who was not interested in a proper R with her, had a gf he adored and lived with.
As far as I recollect she is still chasing her EA crush. It's been 3 years. Lost in a cheese less tunnel.
I can't see she is offering you Poly, just cake and after your resources.
No one man can fulfil her, right on, that's HER job to do for HER.
Supposing that has to be three or four or more?
Wayward is as wayward does.
She has children to think of.
My 2c
V
Vanilla,
Thank you and worth way more than two cents. Yes, the story keeps changing. I actually said something about that last night. Thus, still heartbroken and confused. I'm reading all of these threads on here and it's incredibly helpful to hear others' stories. Some days the pain is so unbearable, yet like Jeep in his posts throughout, I can't stop loving my W and hope for a reconciliation. I really do love her and can't imagine my life without her. We really have been best friends for 20+ years. Further, we have to raise our kids together for many years to come. W is a great mom.
Here is my success story fantasy: We get D, but we remain friends who see each other daily because of the kids. She chases POM. At some point, her fantasy life with POM doesn't match reality (could be months or years). I keep the door open and we are able to reconcile.
Do other people have these types of fantasies?
We discussed poly back in October and she said no. But last night she seemed to have changed her mind. I think she doesn't like the poly terminology but her desires fit the idea. I have read some books on poly and don't know what I think about being in a poly relationship (and I said that last night) I take it as a good sign that:
Did you grow up in that religious belief or lifestyle? Forgive me if I am not stating this tactfully. If this is something you are considering as a way to keep your W, please be very careful. You need to let
your spiritual beliefs, personal values, morals and standards be your guide. Whatever she is experiencing, MLC or waywardness, should not call you into taking part in the her an arena of such drastic proportions. IMHO, it is opening the door to much more pain and possibly a nightmare from hell.
Gordie
Love is never a waste, I still love the Giggalo, at a distance, I love me more.
That's the stage you reach when the wayward frankly won't be the best for you. It's a process.
And yes, we always have these fantasies. That's what they are fantasies. And sometimes real flesh and blood love from someone solid who loves you back is vital.
In time, it takes time. And remember one POM gives rise to another one. And how good would it be for your kids to be with a 22 year old? That would soon get old.
Eventually reality bites.
But yes others do have these fantasies.
Very occasionally they do come to pass. It takes work though.
My thought is you are just at the start of this journey. You are in the right place with a tribe to give you feedback.
V
Sandi2,
Thank you. Your advice is golden. No, I do not come from a poly background and didn't know anything about it until my recent developments. It would be a radical departure from my life to date. I am so confused right now. I feel I am a tiny boat that is being tossed around in a tsunami. Everyday the heretofore unthinkable unfolds before my eyes. I don't know what I believe anymore. I have always been a very grounded person and now I am on a never ending emotional roller coaster. Fortunately, I have some IRL friends who have been supporting me. For the first month, I was so shocked and ashamed, I told no one. A friend became really concerned and he had to pry it out of me. I found an IC I liked. I got a DB coach. I opened up to other friends. I found this discussion board! Thank you all for listening and offering your experience and insight.
Vanilla,
Thank you. You are right that I am just at the start of this journey. It is hard for me to see where this is going or why this is happening or the meaning of it all. I am trying to have faith that everything does happen for a reason and that God will not abandon me and that there is meaning in suffering. I can't imagine getting to the point of loving my wife at a distance and being at peace with that and moving on but that's why I am here to learn from all of you.