Here is my sitch
Wife 16 years in R, 10 Married, Son 3
In May W says we have a problem, I say no we are good. She says no we aren’t. We talk for several days ILYBINILWY, your like a brother, we are just friends, you deserve someone who loves you, im tired of clening up after you etc.
We schedule separate introductory meetings with a MC and summer goes by and we don’t really talk about it. I try to help more around the house and then 2 weeks before our first MC session as a couple she says there is no reason to go. WHAT begging and pleading begins and we both lose 15 pounds overnight and I help her create a list to bring to our first MC session. I ask before our session if she wants to read her letter she says no. D day arrives and she asks if she can spend the night at her parents. I say sure. We go to MC and she is all business and unleashes 7 pages of hate even to the point where the MC says to be careful about being “hateful”.
She finishes her letter reading and the MC calls time and we walk out. She hasn’t been back since. No opportunity to attend further MC.
I was able to get her to go to my C to tell him what I did wrong but she refused to talk about the R if she went. She would only go to help this “not happen to me again”.
Current sitch she has been gone for 2 months we split time with our S3 and we continually fight over when he is with who. She has a hard time keeping the 223 schedule. She travels for around 3 days a week twice per month and wants me to pay her back for the days that she is away. It has been a topic of much contention.
I reside in the home and any attempt to discuss the R is met with “I don’t want to be with you” “I’m pretty sure I know what I want to do”
Have read DR am working on detaching and 180 does not seem to be working. She seems like a completely different person. After she left she went and got a tattoo has been spending money and going to concerts, she immediately removed her wedding ring and hasn’t worn it since.
Kind of wondering where to go from here? Want her back, best friend, she has removed herself from everyone but her family but I know she is starting to check up on me through other people. any help would be much appreciated
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
She finishes her letter reading and the MC calls time and we walk out. She hasn’t been back since. No opportunity to attend further MC.
Echotym,
I'm sorry you're here, but you've found a great place for help and support. Right now, MC probably won't provide much help for your marriage. Both partners have to be onboard for MC to work well.
I figured that out through trial and error unfortunately. We have only attended one event as a family since BD. I have been invited to so to Halloween to be with my S3 and she will be there. Wondering if I should go?
she also seems to use texting as a primary means of communication and we neer talk. it is difficult to talk or connect like that.
thanks for any help you have. Just trying to formulate a good consistent game plan.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
I figured that out through trial and error unfortunately. We have only attended one event as a family since BD. I have been invited to so to Halloween to be with my S3 and she will be there. Wondering if I should go?
she also seems to use texting as a primary means of communication and we neer talk. it is difficult to talk or connect like that.
Echotym,
She's not interested in connecting with you right now. This is your opportunity to work on yourself and be a good dad.
Regarding the Halloween party, I don't know if it's DB or not, but doodler would find an interesting costume and go to the party and be gregarious and have as much fun as possible at the party (you don't have to interact with your wife at the party). Just don't scare the children.
I have been invited to so to Halloween to be with my S3 and she will be there. Wondering if I should go?
Just curious about your custody arrangement. Why does W "get" Halloween? Is there a plan in place regarding Thanksgiving and such?
As for the event, consider what you want to do and why you want to do it. If you will get to walk around with your son and such, great. If youre going for the chance to 'connect' with W while your son is walking up and down the driveways, Id pass.
she also seems to use texting as a primary means of communication and we neer talk. it is difficult to talk or connect like that.
Agree with doodler. She doesnt want to connect with you now, so I wouldnt push to do anything else with her. Stop with the pursuit of 'family time'. Now is a great time to focus on yourself and your relationship with your son.
I have messed up with the not letting her know about DR I had her read the first chapter. She provided no comment. Hopefully that doesn't do to much damage.
I'm having a hard time managing both my family and hers. All parties are very confused by this reaction as we have never had any issues before.
How should I deal with her family. They call me all the time to talk about the sitch they try to help by takkkng to her. Also people are starting to reach out and ask if they should call her, they want to but are worried they will do damage. She has not had the pleasure of discussing her reasoning and people have good questions that she does not have any answers for.
How do you manage all the people and questions. No one can understand this reaction to the issues presented. These are all issues they have experienced in their marrriages and would never consider divorce.
If the answer is don't talk to them it's way too late for that when she walked out the door she called all family members and my friends to tell them why she was leaving.
Thanks again for all your help it is much appreaciated.
Welcome to the group.
Your sitch sounds very similar to mine. we were together for 18 years (married 10) and have a S of 3.5. my W dropped the bomb 3 days after my Birthday (8 weeks ago) - so many similarities here.
Over the last 8 weeks I've learnt that I can't control what my W does (or doesn't) do; I can't control what she thinks or how she treats me. All I can control is myself.
Concentrate on you and your S. Try and build a life for yourself and GAL. Read as many stories as you can (I find it helpful to know that I'm not the only one going through this).
Ask questions, get advice and try and look after yourself. Don't do any 'investigative' work and try not to second guess what her word or actions mean.
If your W is unable to commit to the times that she is responsible for her S, that's her issue, not yours. Yes it's always best to be flexible to an extent, but if she's left you, she's also left the support of a Husband!
Chin up buddy and keep on keeping on.
I'm having a hard time managing both my family and hers. All parties are very confused by this reaction as we have never had any issues before.
How should I deal with her family. They call me all the time to talk about the sitch they try to help by takkkng to her. Also people are starting to reach out and ask if they should call her, they want to but are worried they will do damage.
"Thank you for your concern. I would rather not talk about this anymore."
If the answer is don't talk to them it's way too late for that when she walked out the door she called all family members and my friends to tell them why she was leaving.
You can't control what she does, so those are the
cards that you are dealt.
You can only play the ones you have and can't
keep getting new ones.
DB'ing is counter intuitive.
Read the homework,
I think especially the pursuit and distance thread.
What issues does she have with you that are legitimate?
Those are what you need to work on.
Make yourself into the best "Echotym" that you can be.
Keep posting
I join the others in welcoming you. I've been here for a while now, and it's my way of hoping to pay forward the help I found when I "accidentally" stumbled onto the site as a resentful, angry, wayward wife. With that said, let me tell you that your M can be saved.
Since my personal experience, I have read a lot about wayward wives, have observed quite a bit IRL, and especially learning from the board over the past nine years. It is astounding the number of H's that have WW's. I think you'll find similar stories when you read other threads. So, you are not alone.
To get a wider a picture, let me ask some questions. What are the ages of you and W? Who is the one who tries to solve R problems through discussions?
Has there ever been any type of inappropriate contact with the opposite sex, from either of you? Any addictions?
Which of you make the highest income?
Does she have male friends, apart from your circles? In other words, does she meet them without you being present? Does she text them, or have you ever checked her phone to see her messages? Does she go into another room, or outside, to talk on her phone? If I had to guess, I'd say she kept her phone pretty much glued to her hand. It doesn't mean she's in an affair, b/c it seems to be a bad habit for a lot of people. However, it also seems typical in cases with WW's.
You thought everything was okay in the MR. She didn't want to discuss it until she went to the C session.....which basically was her attacking you for everything you've done wrong since your wedding day. Another typical.
Would you say your W would often speak to you with a disrespectful tone or attitude? Would she ever talk down to you, make fun of you in front of others, talk badly about you to friends/family? Would she raise her voice, stomp her foot, make faces, roll eyes, or some other expression of disrespect? What would you do.......overlook it, b/c it wasn't worth making a big deal out of it?
Maybe I am jumping the gun here, and maybe you are a real jerk of a H. I rather doubt it, but there's always that chance. Anyway, you are the one who has shown up and seeking help to save your M. In my book, that says something positive about you.
Saving your M will not happen quickly, b/c as you stated, she has changed. She's like a different person.......b/c she feels differently about most everything. She can find her way back, but it won't be before you emotionally turn lose of her and start to live your life without her, IMHO. A woman can sense when her H really lets her go. And, as strange as it sounds.....that's when a WW usually becomes interested in him again.
So, you'll get various opinions here, but for the most part, I think we try to have the same end goal......which is to save yourself, and hopefully, save the M.
I hope you'll post every chance you get, and stick with us while we share problem solving solutions.
I join the others in welcoming you. I've been here for a while now, and it's my way of hoping to pay forward the help I found when I "accidentally" stumbled onto the site as a resentful, angry, wayward wife. With that said, let me tell you that your M can be saved.
Since my personal experience, I have read a lot about wayward wives, have observed quite a bit IRL, and especially learning from the board over the past nine years. It is astounding the number of H's that have WW's. I think you'll find similar stories when you read other threads. So, you are not alone.
To get a wider a picture, let me ask some questions. What are the ages of you and W? Me 35 W33 Who is the one who tries to solve R problems through discussions? Honesty we have really gotten along really well and had minimal to no conflict(from my perspective). We would both bargain for the things we each wanted but now reflecting on the R I see I may have not recognized how forceful I was with my opinions. I think she saw those hard rules when it was me telling her how I felt about something.
Has there ever been any type of inappropriate contact with the opposite sex, from either of you? Not that I am aware of, she is in sales travels a lot with older very successful men. She routinely travels and stays on hotels with these men. Separately of course. These men would sometimes make advances and she would tell me about them so I trusted her. Any addictions? Her phone and I don't think that's a joke. Its bad
Which of you make the highest income? We are both high earners about the same. we have no financial issues. Many issues stem from me being the cheaper one and her wanting to spend.
Does she have male friends, apart from your circles? She has no girlfriends never has, she cannot maintain a R with another female. In other words, does she meet them without you being present? She considers the Males at work her friends and does not and is in close contact constantly. Does she text them, hourly when she is home or have you ever checked her phone to see her messages?No Does she go into another room, or outside, to talk on her phone? not really I occasionally talk with these people and was recently invited to go on a weekend trip with them, I declined one of the W reasons for leaving If I had to guess, I'd say she kept her phone pretty much glued to her hand. Absolutely It doesn't mean she's in an affair, b/c it seems to be a bad habit for a lot of people. However, it also seems typical in cases with WW's.
You thought everything was okay in the MR. She didn't want to discuss it until she went to the C session.....which basically was her attacking you for everything you've done wrong since your wedding day. Another typical. Yes hasn't loved me for 10 years, I tricked her into marrying me, it was all the next step for her and she didn't know what she was doing. doubt we ever really loved each other.
Would you say your W would often speak to you with a disrespectful tone or attitude? Yes both of us would me probably worse than her Would she ever talk down to you, make fun of you in front of others,Yes both of us talk badly about you to friends/family? yes but I thought we were joking Would she raise her voice,never stomp her foot,never make faces,in the last year roll eyes, yes I thought it was lovingly but recently it wasn'tor some other expression of disrespect? What would you do.......overlook it, b/c it wasn't worth making a big deal out of it? Pretty much but we both treated each other this way
Maybe I am jumping the gun here, and maybe you are a real jerk of a H. I would say I was a dink but no one ever doubt how much I cared for my W. Our relationship was what other couples measured their relationship off of. In our circle this is a complete shock we were drama free. Behind closed doors I thought I was much more caring. We never PDA ever her choice mostly I rather doubt it, but there's always that chance. Anyway, you are the one who has shown up and seeking help to save your M. In my book, that says something positive about you.
Saving your M will not happen quickly, b/c as you stated, she has changed. She's like a different person.......b/c she feels differently about most everything. She can find her way back, but it won't be before you emotionally turn lose of her and start to live your life without her, IMHO. A woman can sense when her H really lets her go. And, as strange as it sounds.....that's when a WW usually becomes interested in him again.
So, you'll get various opinions here, but for the most part, I think we try to have the same end goal......which is to save yourself, and hopefully, save the M.
I hope you'll post every chance you get, and stick with us while we share problem solving solutions.
Thanks you so much you seem to be right on point. Is there a possiblility she wants to be pursued instead? flowers gifts I love yous as those are things I never did on the marriage.
_________________________
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Legitimate reasons for leaving, I and my C have been struggling with that everything was surface normal marriage stuff. Clean up after yourself. Our house is really clean. You have junk laying around (we live in the country) we are the most successful people our age I know. I know I wasn't understanding enough about how she felt about those image related items. (new cars tidy house yard etc) She does state she is no longer attracted to me and something is missing in our R saying I love you, gifts, PDA, formerly things she said she never wanted. But as far as other things relating to me that's really it and she admits that and that is why she left. She admitted to my C that that "i know this is superficial but this is how I feel"
To be fair I did try and change those gift and I love yous and PDA but it felt like it was too late. Gifts were met with "should have done that 5 years ago" hugs were super awkward I love yous were reciprocated but it didn't feel genuine. We never used to do any of those things and she thought it was weak when people did. I tried all those things over the summer but I think it made things worse.
I was waiting to hear more of your story before commenting. After you described her job I'm now convinced there is another man in the picture. I'd advise looking into that because it changes your strategy. Marriages can't be worked on when there are more than two people in them. No point wasting the effort. You need to know. Look into it quietly. Don't ask her.
No one can tell you that there is someone else in the picture. Especially not strangers. You know your situation and you're going to have to come up with your own conclusion.
"She does state she is no longer attracted to me and something is missing in our R saying I love you, gifts, PDA, formerly things she said she never wanted."
Is the reason why you didn't do these things because she told you not to? How did you romance her? Did you fall into a rut?
I don't have any way of finding out really. We have minimal contact she has to be with these people for work. Work has always been the most important thing for her above all else. Even when things were good. (Which I always thought they were). When thinking about her work situation from a happy marriage perspective I thought nothing of it but she is routinely out drinkimg late into the night with clients on a weekly basis and many of the things she does with these men many men would not tolerate. I trusted her and still do.
She has been asked by multiple people that there is no one else. She doesn't get mad when answering she just says no and moves on. I would be pissed and appalled. I could see an EA and her wondering why she doesn't have that connection with me. ( no denial here there could be a PA)
Mr bond.
Agreed many say oh there has to be another man. She has existed in this world for years and this was not an issue. I have been operating under the assumption that she is telling the truth and those superficial things are really what she is hung up about. She has never been a untruthful.
As far as romance she expressed to others and before this year this year that she would prefer to buy her own things for her birthdays and other special days. And that PDA was for weak people and who needs that anyway. Our sex life was pretty good considering her work schedule and a 2 year old at home. until she stated things were bad. Then it went down hill.
As far as romance I would say it was pretty non existent in our relationship. That was just how we were. Suddenly she saw it's a missing piece but didn't communicate that to me.
Hi knits possible she used the "it's for the weak" and "I'd rather buy my own gifts" to try and save face or mask her hurt that you weren't doing it for her as she really wanted?
Your ages and together time are close to mine. Its a blessing and a curse. Part of my W's reasoning is because we have been together so long and we were too young, etc etc. I look st that as a good thing and she had before but now it's a negative.
Now part of Last resort technique is doing a 180. You weren't doing a lot of affectionate things before but I'm not sure you would want to st this stage just yet.
My C has thought that as well. It is a possibility. But she never never gave many gifts either also at my request. We would talk about it before hand and she would not want anything. I know regarding 180 I did get her flowers and an expensive gift shortly after separation and that when she proudly put it on and stated I should have done this 5 years ago but hasn't taken it off since.
"Our sex life was pretty good considering her work schedule and a 2 year old at home. until she stated things were bad. Then it went down hill."
Did you just have sex or make love? Did you or her just do it out of obligation or was it another way to connect with each other? Did you two talk on a regular basis on things that wasn't just business or day to day related?
"As far as romance I would say it was pretty non existent in our relationship. That was just how we were. "
Could you elaborate? Are you not the romantic, spontaneous type?
"But she never never gave many gifts either also at my request. "
So you told her not to get you gifts either? Why? Was it always like that?
I thought we were connecting but I now don't think that she has been. I would say during our normal times I was the initiator 75 percent of the time. I would say recently you could tell it was routine for her and it was tough to get her out of that mode. She was pretty unapproachable all the time she was always on her phone if she wasn't working or cleaning. She didn't have a ton of interaction with our S3 either and was more apt to put him in front of the tv. I was more of the caretaker while she did housework and extreme cleaned every night. I don't want to give the I,pression she was a bad mom she's not. She just has other things higher on her priority list than I would.
I did not want her to bother getting gifts for me. I always just wanted to hang out with her and we did everything together. I have always had a tough time having people do anything for me. We were both that way we valued our ability to take care of ourselves. I have found through C that I was pretty lonely and she was pretty emotionally unavailable. I also think I was the same to her in many respects. But it was tough with a W with such a tough exterior.
Does any of this make any sense?
Also. On did we talk about other things. Yes I thought we did she did not really have anything else to talk about but work as it consumed her life iris the only thing she was really interested in. I know I was often less than enthused to hear about her day and should have been a more active listener. I hope I get a chance to be better at that. That one is definitely on me.
Yes it does clear up alot. You forgot to have FUN in your relationship. She outgrew the current situation and is looking for a change. She is vulnerable at this time for an A. What have you been doing to change yourself?
Agreed she stopped having fun with me. But we did have a lot of fun. We went on vacations around the world. Weekends at cabins constantly. Dinners out. I felt as if I was failing to keep up with the corporate credit card she utilizes for fancy dinners with work male co workers. She truly gets to live a fantasy life while on the road 5-10 days per month. I feel like no matter what I do or spend it would be impossible to keep up with that. Coming home is a drag. She has to compromise where she is treated like gold on the road.
What have I done to change myself.
Lost 20 lbs ( stress related but I'll take it)
Trying to dress better. ( we don't see each other so I do t know why)
Working on detaching.
Reconnecting with friends.
Been on multiple vacays with friends and S3
Seeing my own C been a great help
Working on being more confident.
Reconnecting with my family members. ( they and my friends say I'm completely different I talk way more. Yes mostly about impending D just trying to make sense of it)
Trying to find a balance between not being a door mat and not being a dick. While trying to accommodate her work schedule with our S3s needs.
Trying to maintain a relationship with sister in law who was/is my best friend to talk to and who my wife is currently living with.
Working at keeping the house clean.
Getting rid of the junk she complained about in the yard
Continuing to be the best dad I can be.
Any suggestions shoot. Any pointers please don't hesitate. I want to thank all of you again for your time it's great to know others are dealing with the same issues.
"Agreed she stopped having fun with me."
No you don't get it. Did YOU stop having fun with her? Did you stop or were you ever flirty and playful with her? Think about when you were dating. How was it back then?
"I felt as if I was failing to keep up with the corporate credit card she utilizes for fancy dinners with work male co workers. She truly gets to live a fantasy life while on the road 5-10 days per month. I feel like no matter what I do or spend it would be impossible to keep up with that. Coming home is a drag. She has to compromise where she is treated like gold on the road. "
Ok, it's time to stop that self defeating talk. Just remember... she MARRIED you. So obviously she thought that you were a catch. Why?
"Trying to dress better. ( we don't see each other so I do t know why)"
You dress better for YOURSELF. Would you rather dress like a slob?
You are not a doormat. What you are doing is putting yourself down with your low self-esteem. She's not doing anything to you. You're doing it to yourself. Which means that you can also do something about it. Get your B@LLS back!
Mr bond I never stopped having fun with her. I always found her attractive and would often tell her so I had a blast with her and always looked forward to seeing her every day. We were always doing things together. She was always uncomfortable being close in an I'm gonna grab your arm or hold your hand sort of way.
I don't dress like a slob but I don't wear nice expensive clothing. Headed out to buy some today my pants don't fit anymore. I have tried the get your b@lls back approach and she gets really angry. when it comes to spending time with our S3 I have not compromised. Anything I do to assert myself validates her leaving and she tells me so. She has stated that she is generally disgusted with me my mannerisms how I clear my throat, how I cough, and as she stats it just generally me. can that change back? Can she develop those feeling again in the face of disgust?
I refused to leave the marital bed and home. I have refused changes to our S3's schedule to accommodate her work. Anytime we talk and the convo gets remotely argumentative she hangs up. I think her perception of the marriage was she never had a voice and I did not listen to her concerns about things. I thought a 180 would be to start doing those things.
I do think for the first month after she left I was a door mat. I was accommodating and tippy toed around everything. I am getting better at not doing that and it feels like the chasm between us is growing because of it.
She is also getting a ton of pushback from her family I have heard of arguments with her dad and the few people she is talking with are asking her why she is doing this this way and all roads lead to I deserve to be happy.
second follow up I have always been the same to her and I think she got annoyed with that. I sincerely got the impression that she started to look down on her life our position and my family as less than her. and why am I hanging around these losers. She has stated that I don't value success even though we are both very accomplished and goal oriented people. I am not ashamed of my accomplishment nor hers. we never put any effort into our R I never thought we needed it.
Having a child and the love she feels for him she says changed her perspective on us. She has said that she does not love me like she loves our son and that is what is missing for her.
Echotym...Sorry to hear about your troubles. My W also pulled the ILYBINILWY thing on me this summer. She told me last night right before closing my eyes that the D papers are ready and that she is moving out in 2 weeks. Made for a rough night last night.
I was also under the impression that things were going good in our marriage when the BD happened, but after reading around on here, it seems that the LBS is always the last to know. They were planning their exit long before they said anything.
If your wife is anything like mine, it seems like they are chasing a fantasy that they have drummed up in their head. Either they will find it once they get out on their own, or they will come crashing back to reality at some point. I know that I am willing to remain the lighthouse in her storm, but she's making it difficult for me to like her right now. One of my dad's favorite lines was, "I love you, but I don't like you right now". I am learning very slowly that this is their thing...there is nothing we can do about it, but weather the storm.
It is up to us to decide how long we are willing to wait for them to come thru the fog. It is different, I'm sure, for us all, but there is no shame in moving on whenever you feel you are ready.
Stay strong for your son and also for you. God Bless!!!
Its so incredibly tough. I get so much pressure from friends and family that say you are being treated like Sh%$. why don't you get this over with. I still cant wrap my head around the fact that this is it for us. I feel like she will realize or someone she doesn't feel was influenced by me will tell her that this is no way to treat people especially your kid.
My spouses whole family calls me almost daily to provide support but no hope. The only thing that has kept me sane this last month is realizing that this is not entirely my fault. not a single person has seen or experienced the reality that my wife is describing. The tough part also is she is smart was rational and very even keel. It so damn weird.
Thanks for your perspective.
I know the fight is real and that we think that our marriages are worth saving, or else we wouldn't be here. My family thinks I am nuts also...they say that I should face the facts and move on with my life. I know that there are other beautiful women out there that I could build a life with, but I meant my vows to my wife.
My priest said that I am doing what is right by standing for my marriage, but even he said that when and if she files for D that I should find a way to move on...not exactly what I wanted to hear from a man of the cloth.
In my case I do believe that it is a MLC, but not sure how long this fog will last. She has apologized to me that I'm hurting and that she is the one doing it, but still feels that this is something that she is needing to do...she says that this is her time to be selfish...like the last 25 years of our relationship hasn't been!
Are we justified in allowing people to treat us like this. Do you look at like its a temporary disease or do we all have something wrong with us for allowing this type of behavior to permeate our lives.
are there examples or users that were the WAW that came out of the "fog". What finally did it? did they just determine that they were done having their fun? I cant believe my W is enjoying living with her parents but she does like to tell me she is happier 6 months ago she would shudder to think of living with them(her parents)
Does snapping out if it happen just as they went into it?
Are we incredibly dedicated and just, or just dumb? I totally believe if she tries to work on this relationship even a little we would be unstoppable?
rant over
Thanks
Thank you for answering my questions. I see a few things that might be key for you to work on yourself.
Honesty we have really gotten along really well and had minimal to no conflict(from my perspective). We would both bargain for the things we each wanted but now reflecting on the R I see I may have not recognized how forceful I was with my opinions. I think she saw those hard rules when it was me telling her how I felt about something.
Would you say your W would often speak to you with a disrespectful tone or attitude? Yes both of us would me probably worse than her Would she ever talk down to you, make fun of you in front of others,Yes both of us talk badly about you to friends/family? yes but I thought we were joking Would she raise her voice,never stomp her foot,never make faces,in the last year roll eyes, yes I thought it was lovingly but recently it wasn't or some other expression of disrespect? What would you do.......overlook it, b/c it wasn't worth making a big deal out of it? Pretty much but we both treated each other this way
It's not easy to see ourselves as others see us. If you recognize that you could be seen as rather forceful with your opinions......start now in practicing in all your conversations with family/friends and focus on not lording your opinions over them. It's like retraining yourself how to verbally communicate. Then hopefully, you'll be more aware when speaking with your W.
Everyone has different backgrounds, personalities, etc. Whenever I have talked to couples, I tell them never to put the other one down in front of their children, relatives, friends, etc.......even if it's in a joking way. At some point, some day/time, you say something trying to be funny and it hits her the wrong way. She may not tell you she didn't appreciate what you said, but it's there, and she doesn't forget it. She carries it around and becomes more sensitive to you making her the butt of your jokes in front of others. It stops being funny to her and she silently resents you. She may try to put you down harder, as a way to get you back, which is a bad situation. It no longer is an attractive quality you hold. See what I mean? Some men may think it's crazy for a woman to get all sensitive when he's just joking around, however, when it's at her expense.......I would not advise it.
Respectful attitudes & behaviors are crucial in a MR. The spouse may not "feel" respect for the other one at that moment.....but they need to act in a respectful manner. That goes double whenever the couple is in the presence of others. Any type of disrespect is like a cancer on the MR.
Whenever you are interacting with your W, make sure you use respectful language, etc. You may not like what she's currently doing, but try to conduct yourself in a civilized and respectful way. We can address more on this subject later.
Thanks you so much you seem to be right on point. Is there a possiblility she wants to be pursued instead? flowers gifts I love yous as those are things I never did on the marriage.
You are most welcome. My advice for now is
not to pursue her with flowers & gifts. No I love yous, or initiating a lot of calls/text. The reason is b/c that puts emotional pressure on her. Although it is the male's natural instinct to pursue the female, I encourage you to not chase her.
Here's the thing.......when your wife dropped the bomb, you were immediately in separate emotional time zones. She was "done", but you were jarred awake and ready to work on the MR. Different as day & night, as far as current emotional needs. She wants space (right or wrong in your opinion, that's what she currently wants from you). You want to lasso her back into the MR! My advice is to give her that space she wants. She has to be free to choose you....without you applying emotional pressure.
Just curious, why doesn't she remain friends with other women?
Are we justified in allowing people to treat us like this. Do you look at like its a temporary disease or do we all have something wrong with us for allowing this type of behavior to permeate our lives.
Nobody wants to be taken advantage of and treated like _____. We all deserve to be loved and treated with respect. I for one am the one in our relationship that was labeled the "giver" and my W was the "taker". Every relationship should be balanced I believe, but I realize now that ours was lopsided for a long time.
are there examples or users that were the WAW that came out of the "fog". What finally did it? did they just determine that they were done having their fun?
I simply do not have an answer yet to this question. I am certain that my W is in the MLC fog, but not sure for how long and when/if she will emerge from it.
I cant believe my W is enjoying living with her parents but she does like to tell me she is happier 6 months ago she would shudder to think of living with them(her parents)
I cannot believe that my wife will really like living on her own either...even if she has the kids 50/50. It just seems lonely.
Does snapping out if it happen just as they went into it?
I have read that it is a slow progression out of the fog when they realize what they have done to all of their loved ones, but like I said...I'm simply waiting for mine to emerge right now.
Are we incredibly dedicated and just, or just dumb?
I feel that I should be "DEDICATED" because that follows the vows that I made to her and God...for better/worse, for richer/poorer, and for sicker/and in health.
I totally believe if she tries to work on this relationship even a little we would be unstoppable?
The key is that it is her choice as to working on the relationship. Mine started counseling with me and I was excited, but then she used the counseling as D facilitating...not cool. Now she is just sure that she wants out of a 25 year relationship. Kind of sad and extremely selfish.
Stay strong...
Ok ok ok....echo and sbj....stop. *reaches for 2x4 out of back pocket....year I have big pants*
Both of you (hell, me too!) needs to quit focusing on W actions and every moment and every word and what she's wearing and how beautiful she was and how great the meatloaf was, etc
That woman is gone! Gone! Poof! You are focused on treating this being in front of you as if it's her. It's not. May sometimes look like her. May sometimes look way better (depending on if she has an A going) but, nope not her.
You both had made some form of comment about only "waiting" til the fog lifts. I can assure you that if you pursue and act as if this person wants you in their life (as they are clearly showing and telling you they don't want to be) that you won't be around when/if the fog clears. Most importantly, you should be using this time for YOU. I'm just further in the process than you guys. I remember when I was lurking on here and read about people "detaching" and saying they will be great regardless of reconciling or not....I would roll my eyes and just say to myself, no way! I only want to be married and am focusing on that.
Let me tell you, once you really start buying in to the process you realize that the shackles loosen up a bit. You realize that you too had a fog around you. You were/are so focused on HER that you are grasping at anything and everything to try to "keep" her not realizing she's already gone.....the question is: will you keep pushing her away by doing what you've been doing or will you do what has atleast a chance and completely change your methods?
Also, for all the people that keep calling you. Regardless or not if they are "on your side" or not. I would tread carefully. A better response is: "we are in a tough spot right now and it's a personal matter that I would rather not discuss at this time" or "we are both taking some time and working on ourselves right now. Time will tell where we go from here"
More people in your business makes it that much more complicated. The problem is that the people that care about you want to protect you. We are here for you if you wanna vent. We promise we won't use it against you down the road as it could be used by people you or she knows
the joking put downs were our MO. We always did it. I did recognize this several years ago and substantially dialed it back. That is definitely on me. She did it as well but it was an inability to communicate about things that bothered us.
while I did deeply respect her I did not show that to others in social settings that issue is recognized and I now know better, immaturity on both our parts. (fyi this is how her parents interact to this day)
her relationships with other women is a very vexing but very constant situation over the life of our relationship. there have been a few female friends but those R's soon crumble. she has to control information and women talk about each other I think that fundamentally bothers her. Even to the point that I am closer with her sister(I think) than she is. She has always stated that she hates women. She just identifies and enjoys being around men more. I think she valued the generally no BS style of communication. I don't necessarily think its a center of attention thing either but she may have grown into liking that recently. She is very attractive.
This may sound weird but we have never discussed how we feel about each other or our M and she has never discussed her feelings with me. I think we both just assumed things were great and they were until she thought they weren't. that has to sound crazy, right.
now this happens I'm all sharing my feeling with anyone that will listen but she is still incapable or really wont. When asked by her family why she didn't bring any of these issues up before she said she doesn't talk about her feelings. yikes
Thanks so much for your help this really helps.
That woman is gone! Gone! Poof! You are focused on treating this being in front of you as if it's her. It's not. May sometimes look like her. May sometimes look way better (depending on if she has an A going) but, nope not her.
I totally am beginning to see that it is not her...almost like invasion of the body snatchers.
You both had made some form of comment about only "waiting" til the fog lifts.
Aren't we doing this to better ourselves either way? I thought that the end goal was to make ourselves better in the hopes that they will see our true selves again...and even if they decide not to come back to us, we will be better for US as well as for whomever we decide to love in the future.
Let me tell you, once you really start buying in to the process you realize that the shackles loosen up a bit. You realize that you too had a fog around you. You were/are so focused on HER that you are grasping at anything and everything to try to "keep" her not realizing she's already gone.....the question is: will you keep pushing her away by doing what you've been doing or will you do what has atleast a chance and completely change your methods?
I'm definitely not trying to push anybody away right now...I've stopped the phone calls and texts unless it is responding to her. I have not gone above and beyond as far as doing things for her around the house. I have had to pick up more of the laundry and kitchen work since she has slacked. If I want to eat, I have to cook, so I continue to do that. I just wish I had a better timeline on: a)how long for her to come out of the fog, 2)how long does it take for me to come to full detachment, 3)how to remove my fog...I guess you mean the one where I am totally infatuated with my W and kids.
1.) if we knew the exact date and time the fog will lift (or even if it will lift), do u hunk we would all put in the work to improve ourselves and the situation?
2.) could take you 45 seconds could take a while. One way to think about it is that the longer it takes, the more difficult you are making the situation for you
3.) I'm cool with the kids thing. But your fog right now is that you are so focused on "winning" her back. Quite frankly, you are the prize here and she should be trying to win you back once you put in the work and focus on yourself.
So she has been out of the house for over two months. She is starting to reach out to friends and my family. People are asking me what they should say. I've been saying whatever you want. You know the story tell her how you feel.
She has been almost completely off the radar but has asked my sister and best friend out to dinner.
Any thoughts on this?
Thanks.
Quit enabling other people to be engaged. They may think they are helping but they are not. Think about it, at this point, she isn't going to listen to anyone against her and if anything it will push her further from you.
When people call to ask simply say "I appreciate you wanting help but this is a private matter that needs to be between only us"
Naturally you can't tel them to not go to dinner with her but simply let them know that you would appreciate that they not accept the role of middle man. They have nothing to do with the relationship and if they cared and want to help, then they can help by reducing involvement. No reason they can't go to dinner but it doesn't need to just be an oppty for them to get the dirt.
Yes live your life on your own terms. I know you are hurting scared and confused. It took me,a,while to get it. And I still struggle. But you must be strong and believe it will all turn out ok. Because it will my friend..
Agreed. Buuut these are the people I have confided in and know everything. May have been a mistake on my part to do that. I hadn't found you guys yet
.
The thing is she knows that and I think I reaching out to see what I'm doing because I have been ignoring her texts and only talking about S. I've been trying to be as dark as possible with a kid in the picture.
They know the totally depressed dejected me of about a month ago that would talk to anyone that would listen. Guess it's a difficult situation as my sister is the only thing close to a girlfriend she's ever had.
Early on in this ordeal I thought I was insane and that my reality was completely off with regards to the things she said. I really sought solace in talking to other people. The problem is she will be using those same people. We don't have anyone in our lives that we were not equally tied to. Like I said we did everything together. We have been a package deal for 16 years.
Yup. Package deal for 18 here man. I get it. But I've been very reserved on seeking solace in people we are both close with for a couple of reasons...1.) I didn't want them to think differently of her based on how she treats me. They can all form their own opinions of her based on her actions towards them. 2.) I didn't want anyone to hear what's going on and then if she comes back treat her differently or me differently 3.) less people knowing my business the better because there are lots of moving pieces to a relationship and I've found that if you can't trust your spouse, you really can't trust anyone.
With that being said. Branch out to new people that know nothing of the situation and have common interests. Gym? Painting? Softball? Whatever.
And quit talking to anyone that will listen. its not attractive.
are there examples or users that were the WAW that came out of the "fog". What finally did it? did they just determine that they were done having their fun?
There have been a few. I've been here a long time and the ones that stand out to me, have been deleted. There was a WW by the user name "love the hub" that was hear last year, I think. She and her H was working on reconciliation, and he had basically become the WAH. That happens frequently in M's with a WW.
I stopped putting a lot of emphasis on the "fog", b/c of the passive LBH'S who thought they would sit and wait, trying to endure her horrific behavior, until her fog lifted. I do not recall a successful outcome for any H who had that mindset. The stories I remember, are those where the H had an attitude similar to Rhett Butler's. You know........."Frankly my dear, I don't give a D---", and he left Scarlett standing in her selfishness, while he built a life without her. I just wish the H's of a WW would not wait until there's nothing left of him that she has not destroyed, before he drops his emotional attachment. When he finally drops his emotional rope he has tied to her........it has a similar effect that Scarlett experienced.
IMHO, the "fog" is to illustrate how her brain is not thinking logically, and you cannot reason with her. She walks around in the cloud/fog of her fantasty, and doesn't see reality. That's why a H looks at his W and wonders what the heck happen to person he M. B/c
this woman is a complete stranger!
With my sitch then sandi what do you recommend. I would say that for the last 2 months I have been sitting and waiting not trying to stir the pot giving her time to think while GALing.
when I have pressed in the past she has citing that she feels I am talking down to her about how she feels. more recently she has been more confident in saying I don't want to be with you.
The stories I remember, are those where the H had an attitude similar to Rhett Butler's. You know........."Frankly my dear, I don't give a D---", and he left Scarlett standing in her selfishness, while he built a life without her.
I endorse this 100%. It worked for me and I've seen it work for others. I have yet to see the passive approach ever work.
Hey brother, I read a thread last night that shed some light on what "WE" need to do to succeed. I will find it and paste it here for you in just a minute. Trust me I am walking in your shoes right now and it is not where I dreamed I would ever be, but I am trying to take what these awesome people are posting and make sense of something that as someone said is...BATCHITCRAZY!!!
Here is the story I mentioned earlier...I'm not trying to steal anyone's post, but this totally made sense to me. I have already printed it out to read daily and get myself moving.
It was written by a fellow forum member named Pigpen. This is what you need to be doing.
I can sum up the process and advice that helped the most this way, I think I wrote this story out for someone on here but looking at it like this helped me immensely. I call it "The Two Island Theory."
Island 1 had my W, my M, and my old life on it. I LOVED that island, but it wasn't the best place for me. I thought it was when I lived there but I was overlooking a lot of dysfunction. But I was so heavily invested in living there that I was blind to so much. That blindness made me fight and fight and fight to stay living on Island 1. I had made a commitment to be there, had my life energy, my time, and my finances invested there. Leaving there would be excruciating on so many levels I just couldn't do it.
That being said, I had been kicked off that island with BD. When my WAW left, that island was no longer my home (as Cadet says, at BD things are usually done). The more I fought to get back on the island, the more my W wanted me off of it. She had already moved to her own little fantasy island elsewhere so I was fighting to be there alone or to remain in the memory of it. Mostly in the fantasy of the memory of it. The glorification of it. My mind would play all kinds of tricks with me, changing memories to only reflect the positive, having me use any and every interaction with my W to secretly try to trick her back onto Island 1. And the pain, oh the pain of not being there with her drove me nearly crazy. I NEEDED to be back there with her, at least the old me did.
Buuuuut. When I came on here, the advice was "The only way to get back with your W is to walk completely away from Island 1. To do this, you have to do it down to your core, not just do it in name, but to live it, to breathe it, to fight day in and day out to authentically walk away from it." That's some impossible chit to do, but I had to do it. We all do.
I did it by creating Island #2. That was an entirely new life for me. Sobriety, men's groups, a change of my business, meditation, getting back to surfing, starting a blog, therapy, seminars, constant audiobooks - a rebirth of sorts over and over and over again. The old PP had to go. How he thought, how he reacted to things, how he lived. The new PP had to be born of new experiences - not dissociating from pain, being honest, finding new friends, acquaintances, a new tribe. Changing my DNA through new experiences. Leaving my comfort zone so far behind me I had no idea where the hell it was. Every situation was terrifying, but into them I walked, day after day.
Everyday I would ask myself if I was building Island 2, or staying stuck on Island 1. Was I pretending to be on Island 2 while still secretly living on 1? Was I telling people I had moved on without really moving on?
The key was to fill up my new life (Island 2) with new experiences, with so much richness, so much excitement about the future, so much wonder about what could possibly happen next, and (here's the key) so much GRATITUDE for what I still did have, that I simply stopped thinking about Island 1. I viewed it as my old life while a new one was doing everything in it's power to come out of me. Working with a Jungian therapist helped with this, as did reading stories of people who had similarly lost everything and then rebuilt their lives in exactly the way they wanted to. Cultivating curiosity about where this all may lead and living in that curiosity was a game changer. Suddenly my life went from "all loss" to "holy cow, maybe this all could be leading me somewhere I never would have gotten without it...let's hang out and find out."
Really Surfer, it's about listening to the advice you get here with a mind that says, "How can I take what I'm being told here and live it fully?" as opposed to "How can I take what I'm being told here and use the painless parts of it, or as little as possible, while secretly hoping that doing so gets me my spouse back?" You have to be willing to throw yourself into the unknown day after day after day.
Cadet says to use the time you're given - are you using every single day as an opportunity to better yourself? That's action, not just thought. What actions are you taking day in and day out? Are you relentless about them? Are you the new 5am regular at the gym? Are you getting counseling? Have you hired coaches if you can afford them? How is your life different than how it was in your M? Are you going to meet ups, learning how to salsa, learning a new language, an instrument, changing your wardrobe, etc. How much ACTION are you taking?
Action is the key. That and letting go. Letting go every day. Of the possibility of reconciliation, of the desire to be with your S again, any of it. ALL of the success stories I read had one theme in common - they were done. They had moved on. They were dating someone else and loving it. They had moved across the country. Etc. Then and only then did things shift. It's a double edge sword, to get something back you want you have to stop wanting it! That's a challenge of spiritual magnitude my friend.
Now instead of wanting my W back, I want an incredible partnership. I want to know my partner has my back in all areas. I want exceptional communication. I want us to talk about the hard chit, the stuff that no one else is willing to discuss. I want to be able to lay my entire soul out on the table and say, "This is me. Here are great parts, here are the dark parts, here is the stuff I'm still confused about, here are the potential pitfalls. This is all of me, let's see you."
The type of person I'm going to co-create with will look at everything on that table and say in return, "Awesome, thank you for sharing all of that. I may get scared but I'm not going anywhere. I'm in this especially on the hard days. Btw, here's me. Here's what I've got in my soul backpack."
If that person is my STBXW so be it. I doubt it, she hasn't done the work I have. But if she steps up, we can talk about it. BUT, that's the bar I'm holding for a future relationship. The future Mrs. PP is going to have to be one hell of a woman, because she's getting one hell of a man. No longer am I after just one woman, my STBXW, now I'm after that partner, whomever she may be.
'I have yet to see the passive approach ever work.'
I have. And btw it's not 'passive' it's patient. Doing the right thing at the right time is key.
'I have yet to see the passive approach ever work.'
I have. And btw it's not 'passive' it's patient. Doing the right thing at the right time is key.
To be fair, being passive is likely 'not' going to work. Sitting around in your house waiting for the day W shows back up...thats just not going to happen.
But I believe in combination with taking an active role in investing yourself IN yourself, giving your W time and space to figure herself out certainly can work.
Basically, leave her to her own pond without muddying up the waters. But at the same time, clear the muck out of your pond and stock it with some sweet @$$ fish.
Also, as Cadet likes to say, doing nothing IS doing something. And is often the best choice
ok so I have been sitting waiting listening GALing for 2 months(first two week were begging and pleading). Leaning on family and friends. no softening but still getting the "I'm pretty sure I know what I want to do." zero R discussions. W about to come out of her hole and connect with friends this weekend to see how I'm doing and see what I'm saying (mostly what I'm saying she's huge on message control)
Do I buy a suit(for the likely D) this week split money and say look you have been treating me like garbage you have treated this family like garbage for 2 months. Sh$% or get of the pot? What are you going to do or I'm moving on. I have a great support network that I didn't know I had and awesome C, my S and I have been on multiple vacations without W it bothers her immensely but not enough to talk about R. her family is actively trying to get her to see a C on her own as they have no idea what she is doing.
as it relates to timing how do I know when she is ready for BD or am I missing the reference and don't have to go crazy. Or Mr Bond could you explain a passive approach more in-depth and how it could work.
Also, as Cadet likes to say, doing nothing IS doing something. And is often the best choice
Wow - I don't think I've ever had an addendum to one of darknes' posts. Mind you I've been whacked with enough 2X4s from him to pretend to know what he means
Don't do nothing. Do things that are good for you and for your family. For your spouse - do nothing. There's really nothing you
can do for / to them that will make them attracted to you. Magnets attract because they are attractive. Lighthouses don't run around the island looking for ships to save - they stand strong, firm against the storms and let their lights shine and guide the lost mariners.
Also are there any example threads where someone went through similar non cheating spouse that walked and they came back?
Thanks again for everyone's help.
Thanks Andrew and darknes. its just so tough because it makes no sense to anyone. to just up and leave your family thinking everything will be alright with your kid and fine and dandy is such a weird thought.
When she first started talking about this she said oh we will be friends still I'm not taking you away from my family, who I am very close with, it will be fine, things will be great. my reluctance to make things go smoothly have made that reality not so realistic. I wonder if that makes her wonder that this not being a smooth process will make her rethink reconciliation or drive her further from it?
Hello Echotym,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
It is no surprise that she said the two of you would still be friends. She wants to live her life on her terms right now with you safely on hold as plan B. You need to be your own plan A. Focus all of your time, effort and energy into being the best Echotym and Dad. Do it for the health and well being of your son and yourself.
Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
ok so I have been sitting waiting listening GALing for 2 months(first two week were begging and pleading). Leaning on family and friends. no softening but still getting the "I'm pretty sure I know what I want to do." zero R discussions. W about to come out of her hole and connect with friends this weekend to see how I'm doing and see what I'm saying (mostly what I'm saying she's huge on message control)
Do I buy a suit(for the likely D) this week split money and say look you have been treating me like garbage you have treated this family like garbage for 2 months. Sh$% or get of the pot? What are you going to do or I'm moving on. I have a great support network that I didn't know I had and awesome C, my S and I have been on multiple vacations without W it bothers her immensely but not enough to talk about R. her family is actively trying to get her to see a C on her own as they have no idea what she is doing.
as it relates to timing how do I know when she is ready for BD or am I missing the reference and don't have to go crazy. Or Mr Bond could you explain a passive approach more in-depth and how it could work.
I think the things in bold are great. Keep doing that stuff. And then add to it!
Let W do whatever it is shes going to do. You worry about you and S.
Bad day. W informed me today she is starting paperwork. Me and S will spend the weekend together trying to forget she said that. My only response was this is disappointing. I hope you reconsider.
Let her start them. You can't control it. You can't control her filing them. But lashing out will push her to do it quicker.
Stay the course!
I realize I can't control it. But just do nothing.
I realize I can't control it. But just do nothing.
You can do plenty! Just not in regards to controlling her (or anyone else's) actions
Currently
Only talking to her about kid stuff
Doing things for my well being.
Hanging out with S every chance I can
Seeing C weekly
Leaning on friends for help
Anything else I should be doing.
ok so I have been sitting waiting listening GALing for 2 months(first two week were begging and pleading). Leaning on family and friends. no softening but still getting the "I'm pretty sure I know what I want to do." zero R discussions. W about to come out of her hole and connect with friends this weekend to see how I'm doing and see what I'm saying (mostly what I'm saying she's huge on message control)
Do I buy a suit(for the likely D) this week split money and say look you have been treating me like garbage you have treated this family like garbage for 2 months. Sh$% or get of the pot? What are you going to do or I'm moving on. I have a great support network that I didn't know I had and awesome C, my S and I have been on multiple vacations without W it bothers her immensely but not enough to talk about R. her family is actively trying to get her to see a C on her own as they have no idea what she is doing.
as it relates to timing how do I know when she is ready for BD or am I missing the reference and don't have to go crazy. Or Mr Bond could you explain a passive approach more in-depth and how it could work.
Can be doing this differently. You (i do it too) have a tendency to let your mind still run wild. Planning for the D as if you know a date. Talking about ultimatums (like you have any leg to stand on). Part of the GAL process is to help keep your mind off of this stuff.
Are you truly GAL and detaching or going through the motions?
Again you're not being PASSIVE. It's PATIENT. Where is your list of goals as per DR?
as it relates to timing how do I know when she is ready for BD or am I missing the reference and don't have to go crazy.
Could you rephrase that statement? I'm not certain what you mean.
It is impossible to give a window of time. I have noticed how men will want to have an idea of how much time to give, or say that if they only knew the W would R with him.....he would not mind the work. I guess that's comparable to wanting to know the answer before asking the question........but in real life, I don't think we get to know.
DBing is
your part. Someone sent you a copied post that gave a good illustration of how that looks. I understand you wanting to see some type of response from her, if nothing else, so you'll know if what you're doing is working or not. However, it's seldom that simple. You have to let it go and move forward. Until you are able to make that step, you'll be tied to searching for a response, and being upset when it doesn't come. Some men see "letting go" equal to giving up. That's not true in the world of DBing. Only you decide when to give up.
In the meantime, you need to do what everyone is saying, instead of looking for more. Drop the rope, GAL without her, and enjoy life to the fullest. That's the big secret everyone is trying to share with you. If you really do this ^^^, you will stand a much greater chance in experiencing a positive outcome to your situation. When you drop the rope, she will
know. Women know! You won't have to
tell what you are doing. (Kinda spoils it when you tell what you are doing. Know what I mean?)
Stop discussing your W with other people. Don't tell others how you are going to drop the rope, GAL, etc. When she starts asking them if you ever say anything about her, they will have to say that you haven't.
Two months is NOTHING in the DB world.
What are you going to do or I'm moving on.
No! You keep your mouth shut and stop saying stuff! When you say something like that, it pushes her toward D faster. When you say nothing and do everything through actions.......the message is more effective.
"In May W says we have a problem, I say no we are good. She says no we aren’t. "
This kind of says it all. You weren't concerned about what she wanted before so she did what she felt she had to do. Just because you suddenly decided to try and save the marriage doesn't mean she should too. It's always been about what YOU wanted when YOU wanted it.
How do you think she felt when you told her essentially that her concerns were no concern of yours? Now you feel indignant because she wants to leave and be happy. What assurances does she have that things are going to get better and that you're not just saying that and then go back to the way things were?
She has to see your changes and it will take time. But if you don't think she's worth it, then you're well within your right to sign the paperwork and find someone else who you feel will cater to your needs and give you what you want. After all, I'm sure that the next relationship will have no disputes whatsoever.
Mr bond agreed on all fronts. To be fair to me. In may I had no idea what was going on or where any of this was coming from. My outlook on everything is different now. I've learned a lot in the last six months.
I absolutely was that way. What I'm struggling with is that my Ws issues or needs were unreasonable and OCD in nature. There was a complete refusal on her part to recognize these issues and left. I did in earnest ( I could do better now) try an address these issues and try to get her help. She walked instead. It's tough when someone won't recognize their side of anything. I know I don't need that in DBing but it's a huge contributing factor.
"It's tough when someone won't recognize their side of anything."
We all go through that. And to be honest, you don't know that your W doesn't recognize her side. She may just not want to admit it to you. The whole point is you're still waiting for her to say she's "wrong". You're still trying to control the situation.
Update
W Has stated she is moving forward with D as she cannot see us getting back together. She has started asking for pay stubs. Should I give them to her? If not just say sorry I'm going to provide you with that information?
This is really been a blow but not surprising. I had a long conversation with her yesterday and she just sat there quietly while I tried to get her to attend some sort of C. Backsliding I know but it seemed right in the moment. I didn't get too emotional. I really tried to let her know how this would effect our family's and kids. at the end she just said I have a laywer I need to move on. Not surprising but a downer. I havnet been posting lately just been in a funk.
When going through these upcoming proceedings should I be as tough as possible when it comes to custody. My wife travels out of state for work all the time and I assume she will be seeking joint custody. But her schedule is very erratic. I really feel like I have been a door mat this whole time. When we start to get into this how do I be steadfast in getting what I think is best for our kid when everything is seen as an attack on her end. she thinks this will be an amicable process. I think she expects me to sign whatever she gives me. She has stated that she is not fighting me on anything which is surprising because we haven't discussed anything.
W Has stated she is moving forward with D as she cannot see us getting back together. She has started asking for pay stubs. Should I give them to her? If not just say sorry I'm going to provide you with that information?
What is the reason to not provide that information? I say theres no reason to drag your feet on the legal process. The divorce is just a piece of paper.
I had a long conversation with her yesterday and she just sat there quietly while I tried to get her to attend some sort of C. Backsliding I know but it seemed right in the moment.
What was your goal in having this conversation? Frankly, it sounds very invalidating to her feelings to try to press your views onto her. And really, what good would counseling do if she is already fighting to get away. Counseling is for when you both want your marriage to work.
I really tried to let her know how this would effect our family's and kids.
So you are trying to get her to stay out of guilt? out of obligation?
I havnet been posting lately just been in a funk.
I wonder if those are correlated. I think posting here can help get things out that you may want to say to W that wont help you reach your goals. I wonder if posting more would help you stay out of your 'funk'.
When going through these upcoming proceedings should I be as tough as possible when it comes to custody. My wife travels out of state for work all the time and I assume she will be seeking joint custody. But her schedule is very erratic. I really feel like I have been a door mat this whole time. When we start to get into this how do I be steadfast in getting what I think is best for our kid when everything is seen as an attack on her end. she thinks this will be an amicable process. I think she expects me to sign whatever she gives me. She has stated that she is not fighting me on anything which is surprising because we haven't discussed anything.
What I bolded is what you should worry about. You cant control if she feels attacked. I would advise to be fair but strong. And focus on what is best for you and your kid. \
She wanted to leave. She can deal with the consequences.
When we start to get into this how do I be steadfast in getting what I think is best for our kid when everything is seen as an attack on her end? She thinks this will be an amicable process. I think she expects me to sign whatever she gives me. She has stated that she is not fighting me on anything which is surprising because we haven't discussed anything.
Echotym,
You politely, but firmly, tell her how things are going to "go down." I always let my W know that she was in charge of the divorce process because she's the one that filed (which was true), but I always did what I needed to do at any given point in the process regardless of what my W wanted.
I suspect that it's a little irritating for the WS to control filing versus not filing, but beyond that, they can't control your decisions unless you allow them to do that. They may spew, but it's just spew. Just stay the course and don't fold to the threats.
Thanks all
Do any of you run into constant texting telling me things I have to do and things she needs and how is the Kid anh oh I want to FaceTime with him and ask him who is over because I am so insecure about what is being said that I can stand it.
I'm trying to manage this and my time with the Kid so it doesn't completely disrupt dinner and bedtime with out being an A$$. Any pointers. again I think I have been that door mat and she accuses me of ignoring her but I just have taken to putting my phone down when I walk in the door and not picking it up. Will this affect custody?
So frustrating.
When going through these upcoming proceedings should I be as tough as possible when it comes to custody. My wife travels out of state for work all the time and I assume she will be seeking joint custody. But her schedule is very erratic. I really feel like I have been a door mat this whole time. When we start to get into this how do I be steadfast in getting what I think is best for our kid when everything is seen as an attack on her end. she thinks this will be an amicable process. I think she expects me to sign whatever she gives me. She has stated that she is not fighting me on anything which is surprising because we haven't discussed anything.
These are questions for your lawyer, not an Internet forum, but yes, you can get primary custody if your spouse works an erratic schedule. She would still get joint 50/50 legal custody but if you provide a more stable household and schedule then you'll get primary physical custody and she'll get agreed upon hours/days per month as her schedule permits. With that said, discuss this with your lawyer. If you don't have one, get one. A good one.
thanks TxHubby I agree it is headed in that direction. she wants to work together to work on language. Should I work with her on language or just tell her that if she wants to divorce me she will have to serve me papers. I have spoken to lawyers and there is no disadvantage to having work on language. I will have a lawyer look over everything before I sign anything. I'm just thinking from a D busting perspective?
Thanks I have not been posting but reading. I don't see any hope for me at this point. MY GALing has been going good but gets pretty lonely. I cant even be at out home when they are not there I usually leave for a friends house for eh weekend when I don't have the kid.
she wants to work together to work on language. Should I work with her on language or just tell her that if she wants to divorce me she will have to serve me papers.
In my opinion, if theres an opportunity for collaboration, then I think that is good for you.