So W just calls saying D is spending the night with her. But she has no food or money to buy food for them to eat. Wants to know if they can eat with me. Of course I said yes. Don't know if I'm being used or what. Still not giving her money.
First thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2709476#Post2709476
You're being used. Do you have a schedule set up with her for when she has the kids?
Nope. She usually asks D if she wants to spend the night without me knowing. I'm the last to find out. It's always on a night when it's convenient for her other "activities".
Then you need to come up with a schedule and have her stick to it. If you're worried about the welfare of your kids, then you have them and have her start putting in requests that will have to be approved by you way in advance. Start putting your foot down.
Now W all of a sudden doesn't have room in her bedroom for D to spend the night. It's to "cluttered". Don't know how it got so cluttered in the last 2 hours. She's still coming to eat though. D didn't really want to spend the night anyway. She feels obligated. Wonder if this would count as W bailing on D yet again?
Why do you ask so many questions. It's obvious you're the stable one here. The kids need stability. Set the rules.
I need validation. Self esteem at an all time low.
You are a good guy that is being dealt a shitty hand. You have to rise above it.
Your W's $hit is not about you, it's about her. Now this is not me saying you are faultless, but your W is having problems with herself, so you would want to put some distance between you and her.
Stay strong buddy...
I try but she keeps finding excuses, usually our D, to see or talk to me. I haven't contacted her at all.
Now W all of a sudden doesn't have room in her bedroom for D to spend the night. It's to "cluttered". Don't know how it got so cluttered in the last 2 hours. She's still coming to eat though. D didn't really want to spend the night anyway. She feels obligated. Wonder if this would count as W bailing on D yet again?
Well, this definitely counts as her managing to get a free meal out you.
Why does she have no money for food?
When we separated she agreed she'd pay all of "her" bills. So I gave them to her. She has no idea of her cost of living her lifestyle. I've always paid the bills. So now when she gets paid, considerably less than me, she pays her bills that she can, buys stuff for her looks and fun that she considers necessity. Then doesn't have enough for gas or food. She gets paid this Friday. I guarantee by Monday she's "broke" again. No sense of budgeting even though I made her a budget when she first moved out.
When we separated she agreed she'd pay all of "her" bills. So I gave them to her. She has no idea of her cost of living her lifestyle. I've always paid the bills. So now when she gets paid, considerably less than me, she pays her bills that she can, buys stuff for her looks and fun that she considers necessity. Then doesn't have enough for gas or food. She gets paid this Friday. I guarantee by Monday she's "broke" again. No sense of budgeting even though I made her a budget when she first moved out.
Why are you feeding her? She isn't budgeting properly. It's her choice to choose non-necessities over necessities.
I know, but the excuse tonight was she wasn't able to feed our D. Plus, as a Christian, I feel if someone's hungry and I can then I should feed them. Yes, I know, that's an excuse. Like I said earlier, I do good not contacting her. But when I feel she has a legitimate need I try to help. Again, I've been doing this for over 25 years. It's hard to just hang her out to dry even though that's what she's doing to me.
"I know, but..."
See, here's the thing about communication. When you're trying to validate what someone is telling you, you NEVER say 'but'. That negates everything you just validated up to the 'but' word.
"the excuse tonight was she wasn't able to feed our D."
Then you feed your D and not allow your W to have her. No one told you to let her go hungry.
"Plus, as a Christian, I feel if someone's hungry and I can then I should feed them. Yes, I know, that's an excuse."
Yes it is. Here's what will happen. When she finds someone to help pay for her bills, do you think she's going to remember all of the Christian things you've done for her?
"Like I said earlier, I do good not contacting her."
From your postings, you do that out of fear. There's a difference between you doing that because you don't want to and are in a position of strength, but you do that out of fear for what she might do. So your idea of "doing good" isn't what you want to make yourself believe it is.
"But when I feel she has a legitimate need I try to help. Again, I've been doing this for over 25 years. It's hard to just hang her out to dry even though that's what she's doing to me."
God also gave people free will. She made the choice to leave. If you want to see her as the prodigal son, that's the way it is. She has to hit rock bottom in order to consider going back to her family. She isn't going to get there if you're always there with the net to catch her.
Dad,
First, I agree with whoever suggested changing your screen name. I'm not a big rah-rah, inspirational message guy, but even I feel the depression seeping from your name.
I'm a Christian too. So was my ex-wife. I know you need encouragement, and the fact that my story ended in divorce probably scares you and isn't very comforting. Sorry about that.
But you know what?
I count my story as an amazing success.
Every story is different here, though we all arrive here with the same goal. Some marriages get saved. Many marriages do not. Nevertheless, there are way more success stories here than failures. The ending us mostly up to you, though you probably can't see or believe that just yet.
So...some of my take on your situation. Just my opinion - do with it what you will.
I think your wife is going through MLC. Mine did the same. Something about sudden life changes after 20 years or so of marriage seems to make things prone to MLC. Your wife feels like she is a new person, and her new person simply cannot be happy and fulfilled in her boring old life. Bet she's even said things to that effect.
Her changes, along with 20 years of stagnation in your relationship, makes her decision seem perfectly logical to her. That family and friends cannot see this just makes her mad, and stiffens her resolve.
She wants out. You need to let her out. You can't make her stay.
What can you do?
You can take care of yourself and your kids. You can use this unwanted change in your life to make some changes in yourself and your life you thought you'd never have the chance to make. They call that "getting a life" around here. I'd call it caring enough about yourself to choose living even when you're dying inside.
No kudos from me on your weight loss. It happens to all of us who receive the bomb - something about a sudden and pervasive lack of appetite. I'll be impressed if you take the results of the "divorce diet" and turn them into seriously making some permanent health and lifestyle changes that allow you a long healthy life.
I wouldn't try to hinder her efforts on the divorce. I would just be consistent in your lack of desire for one by refusing to celebrate it or help hurry it along.
She wants her own life, so honor her wishes. That means no money until legal proceedings are decided. That means no meals just because she is too irresponsible to buy food. That means sticking to an agreed upon schedule and conditions related to spending time with daughter. That means protecting your credit legally by getting her name and access off of joint financial accounts where possible.
It doesn't mean being rude - unless you just get angry and need to pop off (generally we try to minimize that though by working on detaching).
It doesn't mean doing fake stuff trying to scare her back, trying to impress her, or trying to stay on her good side. Fake is bad - really bad - and MLC'ers seem to be able to smell fake from nearby counties.
If you gotta mope, do it a bit. Then correct yourself by doing something that brings you great joy or satisfaction. If you don't know what those things are, that means your "get a life" work has been pathetic so far. Get on it.
Read here. Post here. Vent here. Listen, absorb, think about, and meditate on what people tell you here. They're writing to you because they KNOW what you're going through, and they CARE that you survive and thrive, no matter the outcome.
You will succeed,...if you want to succeed.
Blessings,
Bill
I appreciate your response and it makes perfect sense. I'm not giving up hope though (no "but" Mr Bond). I still love this woman with all of my heart. I too think it's a MLC from what I've read. It seems like she's well into the replay stage. I'm trying to be loving, patient and understanding, although I'll never fully " understand" this. I'm sorry your M ended in D. If you don't mind me asking BWorl, how is your exW now? Do you have a relationship? Also, what do you mean the ending is really up to me.
Changing screen name to Hopful.
I need validation. Self esteem at an all time low.
The worst thing for your mental health right now is for you to seek validation from others. The worst thing we can do for you is to give it to you. You have to validate yourself. You have to believe that you have worth. Someone you love is rejecting your love. It happens. It doesn't mean you don't have worth. It doesn't define you.
You have ZERO control over how your wife feels or what she does. What you have 100% control over is how you respond to it. Find your anger, find your strength. Don't be anyone's doormat ever. NOBODY respects a doormat and nobody can love someone they don't respect. Be brave. Validate your own self worth. Have courage. You can do this.
The ending is what you choose to make it. I know you came here with hopes of saving your M. Sadly not all get saved, actually most do not, but the victory is to save yourself, to rebuild a new and better you. Once you are under way of doing it, then it is called a success.
"The worst thing for your mental health right now is for you to seek validation from others. The worst thing we can do for you is to give it to you."
What the heck kind of advice is this? Right now whenever someone needs some kind of encouragement, the validation is necessary. You really should read DB for a change.
"The worst thing for your mental health right now is for you to seek validation from others. The worst thing we can do for you is to give it to you."
What the heck kind of advice is this? Right now whenever someone needs some kind of encouragement, the validation is necessary. You really should read DB for a change.
Requiring validation for external sources is a recipe for disaster. No matter what school of thought any psychotherapist follows they all teach that very thing. You must validate yourself. If you can't find peace and happiness for yourself then you're doomed. Every IC on the planet will tell you the exact same thing.
Tx, I could not disagree more with you. When your entire life is shaken to the core at BD, it is very hard to function, hell, it's even hard to breathe and every little encouragement helps, it is a lifeline practically.
And people coming by your thread and explaining to you what just transpired and how to make it day bay day are a godsend. I truly do not know how I would manage on my own, without encouragement and some pep talk.
And even though there is some validity in your claim, it is a recipe for disaster for any newbie, who's defenses, selfesteem and life in general are in shards all over the place. And just as you would not yell at a toddled or a child for spilling a drink, you CAN'T yell at a newbie LBS to get his/her act together and to "buck up" and frankly if that is the scope of your advice, I suggest you refrain from "comforting" newbies with them.
Vapo, you are managing on your own. We all are. It has to be that way. It's ok to want validation from others. It's not ok to need it. That's straight from therapy. You notice that therapists do the same thing. A lot of tough love. Requiring external validation leads to co-dependence and is what got a lot of people here in trouble in their marriages in the first place. I didn't waste that $10K+ I've spent on therapy. I listened and I learned. If you can't learn to self-validate, you're doomed.
"Requiring validation for external sources is a recipe for disaster. No matter what school of thought any psychotherapist follows they all teach that very thing. You must validate yourself. "
LOL Now I know you're a troll. Validating oneself when one is healthy is fine. But not when your world has been pulled apart and you don't know if what you're doing is the right thing to do and looking for some direction. Read DB, get educated.
"Requiring validation for external sources is a recipe for disaster. No matter what school of thought any psychotherapist follows they all teach that very thing. You must validate yourself. "
LOL Now I know you're a troll. Validating oneself when one is healthy is fine. But not when your world has been pulled apart and you don't know if what you're doing is the right thing to do and looking for some direction. Read DB, get educated.
Actually when you're down or depressed is when you have to work hardest to validate yourself. I have also reported your repeated personal attacks on me and others. That is a very clear violation of board rules and won't be tolerated.
Tx Hubby, I second MrBond.
And Tx, you as a relative newbie (but have made great progress none the less), really should show more respect to someone that has over 20 times the posts you have and has helped many and is well regarded and recognized in this community.
Take care...
Tx Hubby, I second MrBond.
And Tx, you as a relative newbie (but have made great progress none the less), really should show more respect to someone that has over 20 times the posts you have and has helped many and is well regarded and recognized in this community.
Take care...
I do not respect people that violate the board rules and continually insult and attack other posters. That is not how adults disagree. If it is it might explain the marital issues.
Not sure where you see I "attacked" you. I just said that your suggestions aren't in line with DB because you admitted you never read DB but came on here giving advice that was counter-intuitive to DB principles. You wouldn't be the first one to do that.
Oh and Hopful, I apologize for the conflict that someone has going on here. Bottom line is that I know you're looking for a ray of hope that the direction you're taking is the right one. Personally I think it is, and I can recount a number of success stories. Only you can get yourself out of the funk you're in, and we can attest that fighting for your M is a good thing.
Wow guys. Thanks for the entertainment. Honestly, I appreciate ALL of you guys advice. Every situation is some different. The way we each act and respond is different even if the situation is the same. I think I'm actually getting to a somewhat better (healthier) place. But I have not and will not give up on my M. I'm setting and sticking with boundaries. But I still have hope. When I said until death do us part, I meant it. Bottom line for me, regardless of what the court may say, I'm still in a sovereign marriage. Maybe that's denial but it's my belief.
It does get entertaining when some people bring up non-DB points. Could be a troll but I'm not going to say that. LOL.
It will take time to keep the good mood going. Patience is your friend here.
Tonight am celebrating my daughters 16 th birthday. She has a bunch of friends over. I made them a bonfire. Got a cake. They are having a good time. W shows up., 2 hrs after she told D she'd be here. Eats some food I bought for D and friends. Stays ab an hour and leaves. I was nice. She had to start talking a. The divorce. I didn't think this was the appropriate time so I answere her questions but again didn't offer anything new. Her lawyers have requested mediation. My lawyer thinks she wants maintenance. She's gonna crap when she sees I'm asking for child support. Our state is a no fault state EXCEPT in the case of maintenance, where infedility has occurred. Don't know if or how any of this will help me but my lawyer seems good and thinks I'll be ok.
Just keep enjoying your D's company.
Trying but ( there's the but again) every time she leaves I still get sad. I don't let her know it though.
Your D leaving is a trigger. There are a couple of more triggers you will find along your journey. A certain song, the holiday, anniversaries, birthdays (your, her, d's), certain special places...
It will get better, for now I recommend you avoid the triggers that you can avoid...
W has made several trips to our house when we r gone and taken stuff. Friends r telling me I should change locks on the house. Thoughts?
Check with a lawyer ASAP before doing anything rash. 1st instinct would be to change the locks, but it could come back and bite you in the ass.
Yeah. Lawyer says not to yet but to tell her to stop and make a list of everything she's taken.
W just found out I'm asking for child support. She's been texting all morning ab how that's not right. She can't afford bills she has now. I know she needs to help support our D but in a way it's bothering me that it's going to hurt her.
I'm just wondering, is this a good time to remind her that I don't want a divorce?
Dude, she left you. She needs to see that there will be consequences...
I'm just wondering, is this a good time to remind her that I don't want a divorce?
Best to speak with ACTIONS not words.
Telling her you dont want a divorce will likely get you one.
Ok. In this case should my actions be to help her out with child support or bills or to let her keep trying to make it on her own? I think the latter.
Ok. In this case should my actions be to help her out with child support or bills or to let her keep trying to make it on her own? I think the latter.
Whatever you do sets in motion what things may be like
IF
you get divorced.
So I agree the latter.
Just wondering, is it normal for a WW to get even more pissed off at you as time goes on when ur trying to do 180s and detach? I've not been contacting her at all. She'll text me when she wants something or to tell me how mean I am in the divorce process. The only thing I've asked for is some child support for our D.
"Just wondering, is it normal for a WW to get even more pissed off at you as time goes on when ur trying to do 180s and detach?"
Yes. You're going against her perfect fantasy of how SHE thought things were going to go. When she starts getting too bossy, be sure to put your foot down and not to tolerate any disrespect.
So is this a good thing? Even though she thinks I am I don't want to intentionally hurt her. And I don't want to do things for spite. As a matter of fact I still don't want ANY of this. My ultimate goal is still to save my marriage. I feel like I've been backed into a corner and for my kids sake I don't have a choice. However, if I can avoid it I don't want to completely burn that bridge. I'm conflicted.
"So is this a good thing?"
See the fact that you're even asking this is bad. Stop doing things that you think may get her upset. Trust me, no matter what it is, it's never going to be good enough for her. If you think what you're doing is right TO YOU, that's all that matters. You have to start letting go.
So if all that matters if the stuff I do is what I think is right for me why should I worry if it's something I think is going to make her upset. Thinking ab changing my name again. This time to Doormat.
Be kind to yourself. I t is not easy what you are going through. It takes time, and lots of it.
The basic rules are :
Do not do anything just to spite her.
Protect yourself and your D in all the ways possible (emotional, financial,...).
In other words, don't be a dick, but you come first for a change...
Thank you for clarifying. That's what I'm trying to do but to the people that she's listening to and are hearing her side it sounds like I'm being a dick. Not that that matters. I don't want to hurt her but I do want to make sure what's left of my family is taken care of.
Do you know how many 'buts' you have in that last post?
It was a rhetorical question.
Thank you for clarifying. That's what I'm trying to do but to the people that she's listening to and are hearing her side it sounds like I'm being a dick. Not that that matters. I don't want to hurt her but I do want to make sure what's left of my family is taken care of.
The stuff before the 'but' doesnt count.
You know, that put everything in perspective. Thank you.
Not sure if you were trying to be humorous or not, but your effort to flip from despair to humor usually shows insecurity. Are there any activities you can do to increase your self-esteem?
Yep. Insecure right now. Don't know how. not to be.
Do not do anything just to spite her. to the people that she's listening to and are hearing her side it sounds like I'm being a dick.
So, you can determine if you are being a dick. You cant control how she responds or what she says to others. So are you being spiteful?
Protect yourself and your D in all the ways possible (emotional, financial,...). I do want to make sure what's left of my family is taken care of.
Good. Thats what matters.
Just remember that that includes you.
I'm not being spiteful. And I'm not being rude. W says I'm being "difficult" bc I've got my own lawyer who's looking out for me. Spent all afternoon getting hateful texts from her.
Water off a duck's back, buddy, water off a duck's back...
What helped me in my situation was when my W was doing things like that, I started thinking of her like one of those crazy people you see walking down the street muttering to themselves. If you saw one of those and they started yelling hateful things at you would you pay them any attention? Of course not.
In fact it got to the point that when my W would spew I would just stare incredulously and wonder if she even knew what she was saying. Turn your phone off.
Turning the phone off is a good idea. The only reason I don't is in case other people need to contact me. (Kids).
Then change the ringtone of her text to just go silent. You seem to be coming up with alot of excuses why you can't do something.
D just confirmed my suspicions. W and OM have moved in together. I was expecting it but still hurts. W told D and her mother not to tell me or her father. W tried to get D to buy her Starbucks. Then got mad at her when she wouldn't. W was complaining to D that she's afraid for her job and she feels like her life is spiraling out of control. Of course it's all my fault.
Some people have to hit rock bottom before they get better.
I've put my ex-WW's phone calls on mute, and her texts on silent. I never know when I get one, until I respond to someone else. It helped a lot.
W bailed on D again today. We weren't surprised. W wants the love seat out of our living room. S was against this so offered to buy it from her. W texted him this morning telling him she wanted $800 for it. He went off on her. Told her if she was gonna live with the OM he should be providing for them. Told her to take all the furniture if she wanted but OM better. It set foot on our property and S won't bring it to her bc he's not stepping foot on OMs property. W texted me this afternoon saying she's not asking for anything from me but wants stuff from the house. Says its half hers too. I said yes but it's partly the kids too. She texts back saying to keep it. She knows she's hurt everyone and she never meant for this to happen. I didn't text her back but was thinking, if she didn't mean for this to happen what did she think was going to happen. She went looking for an OM, she moved out and blamed all of her probs on me, and she's the one who filed for divorce. Idk. Maybe she is starting to feel remorse. I'm being cautious though. She's done me like this before. Gets me to feel sorry for her the. I get my hopes up and she breaks me down again. How can u tell when the remorse is genuine?
Look buddy, I am going to give it to you straight. Your W is in the world of hurt, and it is only going to get worse. Remorse? No, not by a long shot. She still thinks you are the reason for her unhappiness and she finally got a shot of being happy. Now the process will begin where she is dumbfounded why she isn't happy, even though she got away from your "evil" influence. Now is the time to leave her perfectly alone, so she gets to grips with the possibility that it was not you that made her miserable. Now it is vital that you realize that she and she alone can and has to come to this understanding. Resist any and all urges to "help" her. Time for her to pull up her big girl britches.
Stay strong buddy, the situation will likely get worse before it gets better. You are veeeeeeeeeeeeery early in and progress is measured in months and years rather than days and weeks.
Hopful,
You have perfect advice here. Do not contact your wife any more - unless its something that is genuinely about kids and important. Don't make excuses consciously or subconsciously to contact her for your own connection.
She will get in touch with you. Exactly as Mr Bond says. Imagine she is mentally ill. Because in a way she is. I don't know if it is 'like' or actually 'is' depression but in many cases it is depression.
You have to detach from her and you can't do that by staying in touch. We all flounder around with this to start with and will make the odd mistake and have the odd wobble. Try your best and if you do make a mistake. Get straight back on with your goals. Which, for now should include to detaching, having fun with your son and put her to one side. Just be the best dad and let your son know that you are both there for each other.
Surfer.
Thanks guys. That's what I needed to hear.
Having a pity party right now. Hallowens always been one of my fav holidays. Spending the first one of my life alone. Had plans with D but W made her feel guilty bc SHE was having to spend it alone. Divorce [censored]. Esp when you don't want it.
Hang in there Hopful...the "firsts" stink...I remember how sorry I felt for myself when I went on my "first" trip back home without the W....it gets better in time....D does stink if you do not want it...my W told me today that she was going to start the paperwork...ugh...
I'm sorry. I hope stuff works out for all of us on here.
Hopful,
You can only do your best and that means being the best version of you. Try to stop thinking about how she feels is you can - I feel a fraud for saying this as I really struggle with it too. Sometimes its a breeze however....
You really can only focus on you and your kids. Forget what she is up to and what she thinks or feels. Just observe what is going on. Do the opposite of what you have been doing. Don't chase hee, call or text at all unless you MUST. She will contact you. The more you chase, the more you will push her away. Plan things for you and your D. Yes the 'firsts' are crappy but so what. It was my first Halloween without them last night. However, we dressed up the house the day before and I got lots of sweets in for neighbouring kids for when they came.
I also gave myself a treat - a couple of drinks with friends. All in all went well.....
It's never as bad as you think. If your W has a pity party with your D that's not ideal, but you can perhaps say it's okay for M to miss you and us. That's normal. She knows she should be at home so it's okay for her to feel these feelings. It means she has normal feelings for you and us. Put their mind at rest some how.
Surfer.