Link to first thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2706990&page=1So, kind of a lot has happened since I was last here. Most notably, he got drunk last Friday (October 8) and said it was really hard to leave and that he missed me, and we had a talk and he didn't seem ready to think about getting back together, but he seemed closer. He seemed to be thinking about the possibility of getting back together in the future.
He wanted "meaningless sex" and said it wouldn't be taking advantage of me if we both agreed to it being meaningless. I told him it wouldn't be meaningless to me and he said "I miss you" and I thought he was trying to connect so I said I missed him too, and I know lack of sex was a big issue for him during the M so I thought I would show him that part can change too, so we had sex. Well, big mistake, I guess. he really wasn't into it, and then the next day he said he was mad at himself for "coming back to me" because it meant that he had failed.
He said he shouldn't tell me he misses me because it doesn't mean he's coming back, and that it just confuses me, and that he needs to "pull the rug out" from under me.
Then he was being really sweet the next few days. We were just talking about normal stuff, and somehow The Giving Tree got brought up, and I said I had never read it so he told me the story. We both got teary-eyed and I said "you're my giving tree" and he said "yeah" and I said "I'm sorry" and then changed the subject back to something light-hearted. Before bed he initiated a hug and said "good talk".
A few days later we get the email with our court date. January 9 at 2 pm. Seems too soon. He says not soon enough, but that he doesn't have to be in a rush. I tried really hard not to cry in front of him but it hit me too hard. he asked if I was freaked out over getting a court date, I said yes, he comes over and hugs me and says it'll be okay. I ask him why he's being nice to me. He says these bits of affection don't mean anything, he's just being nice because he's a nice person and he's nice to all his friends, but he doesn't feel anything for me anymore, and that he doesn't think he ever could again. He's not coming back now, or in the future.
The next day we go to the gym together, I'm having trouble with a certain lift, and he comes behind me and grabs my hips to move me into position then wraps his arms around me to put his hands on mine to show me the move. Because that level of intimacy is something I show all my friends I don't have feelings for.
Ugh.
He's right about one thing: I AM confused...
Csabo,
No you are not confused. You are simply attached. He is confused. Don't be confused over who is confused here. It's confusing and if you are not careful you will confuse yourself.....
Surfer.
I'm trying to just keep up with the changes I've made, which he acknowledged (without my pressing) but I'm getting pretty anxious with a court date set and him not seeming to make any progress towards coming back.
We were playing dungeons and dragons with our friends and he was drinking and I was taking care of him just a little, i drove him home and gave him my water bottle and he was saying thank you thank you, then we get home and suddenly he's cranky at me for helping him...
I'm trying not to read into things but I wonder if he started having positive feelings towards me so felt like he needed to act cold towards me to make up for it.
He also had me feel his butt because "it's all muscle". Even after I said I didn't want to, he pressed me to touch his butt... Like, that seems weird for someone who has no feelings for me.
Csabo-
You are going to drive yourself insane looking at every detail and hanging on to every word. Stay the course. His reactions and actions towards things show that he is confused. Don't give him reasons to top the scale more against your goals.
Not sure as if playing games and coddling him when he's drunk is doing much good. Seems to be serving him cake.
Thanks for the reply, j. I know I shouldn't analyze every little thing but it's so hard sometimes not to. I will try to do better at just doing my own thing.
Playing dungeons and dragons with friends is a little trickier, we've been doing it for years and I don't want to stop doing something I enjoy just because he's there too. But I don't think he's going to quit either.
Csabo
Do you think you are DB'ing here? What do you think you should be doing versus what you are doing.
Should you be mind reading?
Should you be believing what he says?
Should you be attached?
Should you be always available like a W or should you be going dark?
Should you be working on you to be the best version of you?
Should you be doing 180s?
The last 2 are easiest for you. Your first post listed things, not listening, housework etc. Do the opposite. But don't chase him.
At the core of what you are not doing is detaching and being the best version of you I expect. It might be good to re-read DR also. My copy is open next to me I keep going back to it. I suggest you get to work on this too - otherwise you will end up repeating the same cycle of posts that you have recently written. They are all about the roller coaster and living this will do neither you or your R any good.
Lots of people are here to help. We are all living the same dream sadly.
Keep posting and stay positive.
Surfer.
Thanks for the reply, j. I know I shouldn't analyze every little thing but it's so hard sometimes not to. I will try to do better at just doing my own thing.
Playing dungeons and dragons with friends is a little trickier, we've been doing it for years and I don't want to stop doing something I enjoy just because he's there too. But I don't think he's going to quit either.
While I understand you enjoy it do you think it's helping or hurting your cause? Let's say you continue on and January comes and you end up divorcing....you still going to be going? Or do you think you stepping back and distancing may help show him that you can and will be ok without him which may help bring him closer?
Looking from an outsiders perspective, may be easier to take a break from d&d right now as opposed to likely stopping forever in January.
I think I was doing better at DB'ing before he got drunk and said he missed me but that he wasn't coming back. It kind of felt like the break up all over again. You're right, Surfer, I need to get back to working on detachment and focusing on myself. Thanks.
j - about d&d, I was worried that if I quit playing he would see it as me being weak/avoiding him/withdrawing and being depressed. But if I kept going despite his presence it would show that I can be my own person regardless of him. But I'm not sure...
And so in January. What is your d&d plan if you divorce?
I don't know. I don't really have one.
Also, I don't think I'm really overanalyzing every little thing he does, it's more like "is this a positive sign" than "what specifically does this mean".
Like, he hasn't talked to me for 2 days and today he sent me a video about miniature cows. I'm more thinking, "it's a good sign that shows he's thinking of me" than pondering the meaning behind it so much.
Is that like, too much still? I'm trying to notice and appreciate the little positives.
I do have a question though. I'm so not sure how to treat him. For example, today he bought new clothes, I guess to look more attractive when he goes out to try to get women (he didn't say this specifically). But he was very excited to show me his new clothes. Like, that's a bit of mixed signals and I don't know how to respond.
I told him he looked nice, but that he shouldn't be fake. I don't want to be rude but I don't want to encourage him to try dating other women but I don't want to tell him not to and be pursuing/controlling.
Be less present. Also, "I told him he looked nice but that he shouldn't be fake".... why? Why not just "you look nice"?
Treat him cordially and be polite but not overly nice. Get the demons out of your head (ie "I guess to look more attractive when he goes out to get women"). At this point, you were fired from being his wife. Focus on you only.
I'm. It going to lie I literally chuckled when you said that you aren't analyzing everything he's doing or saying and then you posted 2 posts full of analyzing him.
What about you? What have you been doing or working on for YOU?
Well, I said I didn't think I was OVERanalyzing everything. Then I posted an example of what I meant. As in, yes I still think about it but not giving myself anxiety attacks by constantly thinking about it. Does that mean I shouldn't think about it at all? I'm just trying to notice and appreciate when something positive happens.
I've been doing things for me. Making friends, working out, blah blah blah. I'm still just tripping up when I have to interact with him so that's where my questions/discussions are focused. I don't mean to make it seem like he's the main focus of my day to day life.
Well, I said I didn't think I was OVERanalyzing everything. Then I posted an example of what I meant. As in, yes I still think about it but not giving myself anxiety attacks by constantly thinking about it. Does that mean I shouldn't think about it at all? [/[b]b]I'm just trying to notice and appreciate when something positive happens.
I've been doing things for me. Making friends, working out, blah blah blah. I'm still just tripping up when I have to interact with him so that's where my questions/discussions are focused. I don't mean to make it seem like he's the main focus of my day to day life.
Yes, try your best to not think about him/the situation at all. He doesn't want you as his wife. You think he's thinking of you as often as you of him? You mention trying to appreciate positives but at this stage, they can be very very misleading. I would avoid any and all things that appear to be positive as it may give you false hope.
Focus on those things that you are doing to improve you! When you HAVE to interact with him make it short and civil. That's it. Seeing that you don't have kids it should be far easier than for many.
I think I was doing better at DB'ing before he got drunk and said he missed me but that he wasn't coming back. It kind of felt like the break up all over again. You're right, Surfer, I need to get back to working on detachment and focusing on myself. Thanks.
j - about d&d, I was worried that if I quit playing he would see it as me being weak/avoiding him/withdrawing and being depressed. But if I kept going despite his presence it would show that I can be my own person regardless of him. But I'm not sure...
Can you find a new D&D group? Or form one?
That would allow you to show you are your own person without having to see him regularly.
Yesterday (Oct 31) was my birthday. I found out (through snooping, I know, I know...) that he had a "first date with a girl from a dating site" for breakfast yesterday morning. He said it was "disappointing all around" and that that's what he wanted.
So, it is upsetting that he's on dating sites, which I knew already, but a little weird that he wanted the date to not go well. I'm not sure what he wants.
Trying to just live my life and not worry about it. I know I should stop snooping, but it's addictive and sometimes it feels helpful when I can find out about upsetting things before he tells me so I can have a breakdown without him seeing it. But I suppose if I stopped snooping, maybe the stupid things he does would get less upsetting?
I only have 2 months left to get him to at least pause the divorce...
I'm not sure what else to do since I did manage to make progress and get him to say he misses me, but then he "took it back" and I'm kinda feeling like...what if that was it? What if that was as good as I could do and it wasn't good enough?
Trying to detach...I got super sucked back in when he said he missed me.
But, I did get drunk with him and some friends on Sunday, we were at d&d and the group got me a bottle of amaretto for my birthday, and I didn't act clingy to him or tell him I loved him or that I missed him or anything like that. I didn't even hang out with him when we got home, I had my friends come pick me up and I left the house again. So, I think that was a step in the right direction again.
Ok. Couple of points/
Why are you talking to him at all about dating? Quit allowing him to friend zone you! He's looking for your replacement, why discuss it with him?
You specifically said "I did manage to make progress and get him to say he misses me".....
That's progress? I know we discussed goal setting before. Is that your goal? For him to be your buddy?
We don't really talk about him dating. He didn't tell me he was on the dating site, my friend saw him on it and told me, and I found out about the breakfast date because he was messaging his friend about it online and I logged into his account and read the messages. He actually tries to hide it from me.
Well, I mean...I don't know, I guess. From him saying I want a divorce, I never loved you to saying leaving you is really hard and I miss you seems better than him saying yes I made the right decision I don't miss you at all.
No, it's not my end goal but seemed like a step towards getting back together. I don't see how him missing me is being buddies. How is he going to want to come back if he doesn't miss me?
Maybe I haven't made any progress at all, then. It's been 4 months, and that's the best I've gotten.
I appreciate the responses and advice, I don't mean to sound argumentative or anything, I'm just not understanding entirely.
You said "I got him to say..."
Your focus is to be on you. Not getting him to say or do anything.
As far as the snooping. It will drive you crazy! I know not feels good for 3 seconds but, it will literally drive you insane. You see that he had a bad date and wanted it to be bad. Then he says he misses you..... you get excited....then he takes it back... you get let down.
You really have to work on detaching if you want a shot. I still think the d&d thing is gong to be an issue. Many on here talk about even if you have kids you should detach and literally only discuss kids. You are still hanging out with him! How have you helped him to feel what life would be like without you? What have you been doing to detach?
Your clock is ticking on the date. I advise looking to the last resort technique immediately.
I read and have been attempting to do the last resort technique for 2, 2.5 months. I will reread it and try harder.
Should I move out of the house/have him move out? I had been discussing that possibility on here a while ago and got resounding "no!"s.
It's hard not to occasionally be hanging out with him when we live together. I mean, we have opposite schedules so hardly see each other as it is but it happens. Plus, if I moved away I'd have an excuse to quit d&d other than "it's uncomfortable being around him".
The last time we talked about it (he brought it up, not me) he said he missed me but that I'm unhealthy for him because he resents me for being "useless" (I have depression and for a while it was really bad and I really didn't do anything but lay in bed all day. That's where the no working, no cooking no cleaning thing that he complained about came from.) and that he doesn't see himself falling back in love with me ever.
But he had still occasionally been showing me affection and caring so I'm not sure I entirely believe that the love is gone, it's just covered by resentment. But he doesn't want to put in the effort to forgive me and grow affection again.
He sees himself as a failure due to a number of different things and since I was there while he was a failure it must be my fault somehow, and he knows that's not fair but that's how he feels. He resents me for his past failures and now that he's getting his life together he doesn't want me to be part of his success.
He told me I've been "kicking ass" and doing really well these past few months, but he resents me for that because I should have done it sooner.
What he fails to see is that I started doing better around the end of May, he just didn't see it full-blown until after he said divorce. I was gone for 2 weeks in the middle of June, so he really only had 2 weeks of me doing better before he said he was done.
It feels very hopeless to me. But then again, I felt very hopeless before the night he got drunk and said he missed me. So I have no idea how he's feeling based on what he says/how he acts.
He told me I've been "kicking ass" and doing really well these past few months, but he resents me for that because I should have done it sooner.
csabo,
That's WS BS. They always twist everything around, good or bad, so that you're always on the defensive. Remember, don't believe anything they say.
He's the one that wants it so he should be the one to move out. Inclusive of the MBR.
If he's going to stay then you need to ensure that he's a roommate. Carried his weight. You carry yours. No favors. No hanging out.
It's important he realizes what life would be like without you.
Dr. Strange opens tonight. H and I had been planning on seeing it for months. I think I'm going to go see it without him, he doesn't get off work until 11.
Part of me still wants to go with him and make a sort of "date" out of it, have fun with him and all, especially after he had a disappointing date with someone else on Monday.
But I think what I need to do is see it without him and not even talk to him about it.
Dr. Strange opens tonight. H and I had been planning on seeing it for months. I think I'm going to go see it without him, he doesn't get off work until 11.
Part of me still wants to go with him and make a sort of "date" out of it, have fun with him and all, especially after he had a disappointing date with someone else on Monday.
But I think what I need to do is see it without him and not even talk to him about it.
Did you really just suggest comforting and doing something nice to him for having a bad date while looking for your replacement?
Well, if you read the whole post, no not really. I don't want to go on a date with him because I want to comfort him for having a bad date, I just was remarking it might be a more pronounced good date with me because of the bad date. The reason I want to go out with him is because he's my husband and I love him. Sorry, it's not a magic button I can just turn off. If I could, I probably wouldn't be on this forum wanting to save my marriage. And I only said part of me wants to go with him.
What I actually suggested I actually do is see it without him and not even talk to him about it. I actually said that twice.
I appreciate what you're trying to say, but honestly I felt a bit... demonized for having conflicting thoughts and feelings about someone who 5 months ago was the love of my life and 4 months ago betrayed that love and trust. It's rough. It's a rollercoaster.
Well, if you read the whole post, no not really. I don't want to go on a date with him because I want to comfort him for having a bad date, I just was remarking it might be a more pronounced good date with me because of the bad date. The reason I want to go out with him is because he's my husband and I love him. Sorry, it's not a magic button I can just turn off. If I could, I probably wouldn't be on this forum wanting to save my marriage. And I only said part of me wants to go with him.
What I actually suggested I actually do is see it without him and not even talk to him about it. I actually said that twice.
I appreciate what you're trying to say, but honestly I felt a bit... demonized for having conflicting thoughts and feelings about someone who 5 months ago was the love of my life and 4 months ago betrayed that love and trust. It's rough. It's a rollercoaster.
Sorry if I made you feel demonized. Not the intention. As I stated before, time is not really on your side. As many on here say, you do do what feels right/good or you can do what works. I'm not so sue you are onboard with the process and I can't encourage you enough to sit and read and implement the lat resort technique. It's imperative that you toughen up. Not a single one of us on this site aren't here because we haven't either lost or are afraid of losing "the love of our life". While your situation may be unique to you and your social circle, it's not here. We are all in a similar situation and trying to help everyone else not survive but thrive.
You may not always like the advice or the input from me or anyone else on here but, you will always get honest advice or input.
Trust the process. You really need to be 100% bought in like yesterday if you want a shot. Time to start using the head more than the heart. It won't be easy but it will be worth it.
And yes. Go see it! Looks good. Though I will be seeing trolls this weekend
And no, you don't have to point out that he's "not my husband anymore"or whatever, I realize we're getting divorced and he doesn't want to be my husband but it's just easier than saying soon to be ex all the time.
Got it! Perhaps my approach isn't helping and is obviously bothering you. I wish you the best. Good luck csabo. Really hope everything works out the way you work towards.
I do appreciate you trying to help and giving feedback. I know on here my situation is not unique, which I why I thought it'd be a safe place to vent those feelings of yes I still love him. I didn't tell H that.
I read the last resort technique. It says stop the chase, get a life, see what happens.
Despite having feelings of wanting to pursue, I didn't take those actions. I don't understand how I'm not implementing the last resort technique. I've been trying to do it since August, if you have ideas on how I could do it better please let me know. I really am trying.
I'm sorry if I sounded snarky with my post about don't tell me he's not my husband, I just wanted to point out that even though I called him that I'm not acting like he is still.
I went out and found a great new friend group to hang out with and talk to. I cleaned the house really well. I threw myself a birthday party. I'm hardly ever home, I'm hanging out with my friends a lot. I've continued going to my book club and ballroom dance lessons. I started working out with one of my friends, which I then had to stop because my doctor says I need to gain weight first.
I don't talk to H about hardly anything, just things like letting him know if I won't be home so he can let my dog out or if he talks to me I'll respond. Yes he said I've been doing well these past few months, but I didn't say anything about look I've made changes, he just noticed and mentioned and I was like oh, thanks.
I might have just ruined everything the night he said he missed me. I wasn't prepared and let my guard down and said I missed him too and we talked about the relationship (he brought it up) but I was probably too eager, I mean I let him sleep with me and then he got mad at himself for "coming back". And then the next week I cried when we got our court date. I tried not to, but he could see right through me and came and hugged me and I couldn't stop.
So... Maybe it was working and I screwed up too much that one stupid night. Which is really frustrating.
Don't beat yourself up. We all make mistakes. The important thing is it seemed to be working so go back to doing what works. Next time you will be prepared if you find yourself in the same situation. Go back to doing things for yourself because it makes "you" feel good.
I'm really mad right now. Been awake for 3 hours, after 2 hours of sleep. I'm sick of this. He hasn't even talked to me all week. I mean, I guess he sent me a funny video, and he asked if I knew where his license was. But when I said I couldn't find it and he said he found it somewhere weird and I naturally asked oh, where was that he just never responded. I don't care where his license was, but it's rude and weird to just not say anything after that.
So I'm just mad right now. And short of kicking him out of the house, there's nothing I can do about it.
Less crabby now. That was the first time I really got mad at him over this situation. Not that he doesn't have the right to do whatever he feels like doing, it's just...difficult. And I feel so helpless/hopeless.
I'm staying home from d&d tonight. I haven't seen him since last Sunday at d&d and barely talked in that time, I think it would feel really weird. I guess I don't know when I *am* going to see/talk to him again, though...